Newbie 2077 : The Curse of a Blue Diamond!! - Gameover

[cowsloveSushirolls]

FIRST.

VOTE: catboi

moo > meow

that is all there is to say on the matter

[cowsloveSushirolls]

gaaaaaaah i've wasted such a good opportunity

cow > meow sounds way better
i'm fuming

[cowsloveSushirolls]

VOTE: cowsloveSushirolls

terrible profile picture

my hope is by changing my avatar to a pirate it's easier to look at

[cowsloveSushirolls]

VOTE: cowsloveSushirolls

terrible profile picture

me hope is that by changing me avatarrrrrr to a pirate it be easier to look at

edited above ^

[cowsloveSushirolls]

i've played a couple of months on chat mafia (4 days from now marks a year since the day i found mafia, actually) but i've shifted my attention over to forum mafia and other long-deadline forms of mafia mostly because i like the flavor and creativity of people-modded games

[cowsloveSushirolls]

No one is asking me but I have been playing forum mafia only...

Is the color I'm using suitable for you?

i think the color is fine

[cowsloveSushirolls]

I don't want to get too into a theory debate on this, but the way I look at it, the point of RVS is to generate information. None of the votes should be taken super seriously, especially not the first first votes, but the justifications people make up for their votes can occasionally have meaning, particularly later on. It's not a lot, but it provides something to work with, especially if a random vote gets mistaken for a serious vote. But blindly following a dice roll removes most of that, at least if you announce that's what you did.

agree lol. openly admitting that you used RNG to make a vote instead of your soul i think is a pretty poor justification and i'd take the occasional non-voter over that, because at least they have specific reasons for doing so

[cowsloveSushirolls]

feeling a light townlean on kenny and uranus

[cowsloveSushirolls]

feeling a light townlean on kenny and uranus

On one hand you prefer non-voters over rng-voters and on the other hand you tend to believe the only two rng-voters are townies. Interesting.

maybe it isn't because of your rng votes

[cowsloveSushirolls]

Wow, two votes by the same person

But serious: the more I think about floo, the more I dislike his posts. His first post (a vote with no further explanation) could have been a revenge for me rng-voting on him. Although at that time I already changed my vote to Uranus. Asked why he voted me, he just gave us the smiley. That is not much information. And only one faction likes the information to stay hidden: mafia.

UNVOTE: Uranus
VOTE: floo

@Salsabil Faria: your willingness to vote on me for me trying to solve things looks fishy in my eyes.

i'm assuming that floo is trying something new? a quick check of their history shows that they have a newbie game where they're capable of making surprisingly cohesive wall posts as mafia
i'm unsure of what this means

[cowsloveSushirolls]

wait i don't actually know what cohesive means

i think i meant comprehensive

[cowsloveSushirolls]

catboi siteflaked, this is so sad

[cowsloveSushirolls]

catboi siteflaked, this is so sad

what do you mean by siteflaked?

straight up dipped

gone...............

[cowsloveSushirolls]

Arriving fashionably late~

VOTE: Uranus

Call it gut but some slight feeling the protestations of "nothing to go off", although often a common sentiment among newbies, are here making an excuse to avoid getting involved in real conversation as the game gets more serious.

Good feelings on Salsabil and Radical Rat early. Kind of like kennyk also but I'm not sure if that's because of him being like a time traveler from the distant past of mafia. Mild fos on Entellian for showing up on the first page and then dipping.

slight disagree, i think you may be drawing too many conclusions from things that haven't happened yet
i think uranus's town potential goes up from the exact log you're describing: i'm acquaintances with them since i joined the discord server they play in often about a month ago, uranus is one of the more active ones. the setup making trends there is that they're fast paced and PR heavy. largest thing is that the people there nolim nearly every d1. i appreciate uranus putting in the effort to try and wean themselves off of waiting for mechanical information, even if it just seems like they're blindly following site meta

A to Z hasn't picked up his role. It looks like he is site flaked.

Day 1 deadline has been frozen until further notice.

the real siteflaker was in front of me this entire time

[cowsloveSushirolls]

That answer doesn't satisfy me in the least. I thought that maybe you didn't vote because you were town and didn't want to make a random accusation. Or you were a diamond thief and didn't want to be suspicious because of random voting.

But now you tell us you were to tired to do a simple rng. But posting was ok as was doing the rng one and a half hours later. And to top it of your 'randomness' casts the second vote on someone. All in all that seems highly suspicous in my eyes.

And as it is day 1 and we as town do not have any information at all (except maybe those with power rolls having informations concerning the general setup) this little bit is enough for me to undo my random vote.

UNVOTE: floo
VOTE: Uranus

And as I just read in Radical Rats posts while watching the preview to this post: As far as I read in the wiki and was usual in the days long gone by random voting to get things started on day one is quite common. Voting (or not voting) for someone because of his avatar is even more sus in my opinion. For me it seems as Radical Rat is trying to be helpful to Uranus (allthough I just asked a question). So I see a slight connection between those two.

Too solvy (it's not a correct word, don't know the correct word) to be town.....

UNVOTE: A to Z

VOTE: kennyk

unsure about this vote. are you asking people to clam up at a time where it's most important to talk and analyze things way too much?

[cowsloveSushirolls]

gaaaaaaah i've wasted such a good opportunity

cow > meow sounds way better
i'm fuming

you know what sounds even better?
moo > floo

tempted by the idea of putting floo at E-2 just for this, but their latest post feels good in my head, i like the post about kenny using LAMIST but i interpreted their posting more to be of a zealous townie so i'm not too content on knocking kenny down by much

[cowsloveSushirolls]

I think she says kennyk is trying too hard, missing the obvious motive as I pointed out for a scum accusation. It's good that someone is trying to be serious because this is how we move out of RVS, but kennyk is doing this wrong. She may also be accusing kennyk of doing that just to look town. I recall that the term LAMIST is used here for this.

what's the best way to move us outside of RVS, if the way kenny is doing it is "wrong"? is it just because the pushing happened to be on you because he thought your thought process was unclear? what happened in this game seems like just as good of a method as any, which is why i'm asking

[cowsloveSushirolls]

Scum on the other hand knows who their enemies are. But they don't know who their worst enemies are. Wrst in this context may mean those townies with special roles or even players with some playing skill. As this is a newbie game, there is not much to know about the playing skills of those playing (except th SEs). So a vote from mafia has to be random, too.

this reminds me: you can go ahead and look at my profile: i have exactly one game that's completely finished from about a month ago, and i think it's a good indicator of what I usually do as town. i died on the first night, though. i guess it was for being too friendly [sarcastic tone]
was kind of a dick in that game to be honest

[cowsloveSushirolls]

But serious: the more I think about floo, the more I dislike his posts. His first post (a vote with no further explanation) could have been a revenge for me rng-voting on him. Although at that time I already changed my vote to Uranus. Asked why he voted me, he just gave us the smiley. That is not much information. And only one faction likes the information to stay hidden: mafia.

There is nothing wrong with no explanation for my first vote. I randomly voted you because you were the person who had most recently posted. What was I supposed to do, make a joke about your username? I find it suspicious that you are trying to find secret motives for RVS votes. The smiley should have been enough to figure my vote was random.

And here I thought you also saw the LAMIST play thus voted them No mind melding for us

i like this post: to be honest i was thinking that some of your earlier posts were awkward

[cowsloveSushirolls]

cowsloveSushirolls please don't do an E-2 vote just for moo > floo. You need to have another motive to give someone a third vote.

no promises

[cowsloveSushirolls]

I think she says kennyk is trying too hard, missing the obvious motive as I pointed out for a scum accusation. It's good that someone is trying to be serious because this is how we move out of RVS, but kennyk is doing this wrong. She may also be accusing kennyk of doing that just to look town. I recall that the term LAMIST is used here for this.

what's the best way to move us outside of RVS, if the way kenny is doing it is "wrong"? is it just because the pushing happened to be on you because he thought your thought process was unclear? what happened in this game seems like just as good of a method as any, which is why i'm asking

I find

LAMIST play

scummy in general basis.
Almost every town games of mine, there was at least one scum

who appeared to be solvy in the early stage of the game

to gain towncred and in my scum games, I also tried to get towncred at RVS stage.

that's true, it's probably easiest to get credit in RVS since it's all just making good first impressions

i wanted to see if "there was at least one scum who appeared to be solvy in the early stage of the game" applied to my first game here and uh, we talked about sandwiches for around 100 posts
the person who DID try to solve around the end of those 100 posts was town, though. i am thinking that it's easier to look townier when you blend in with the townies instead of trying to lead and ask questions early, so i like kennyk for this also

[cowsloveSushirolls]

But serious: the more I think about floo, the more I dislike his posts. His first post (a vote with no further explanation) could have been a revenge for me rng-voting on him. Although at that time I already changed my vote to Uranus. Asked why he voted me, he just gave us the smiley. That is not much information. And only one faction likes the information to stay hidden: mafia.

There is nothing wrong with no explanation for my first vote. I randomly voted you because you were the person who had most recently posted. What was I supposed to do, make a joke about your username? I find it suspicious that you are trying to find secret motives for RVS votes. The smiley should have been enough to figure my vote was random.

And here I thought you also saw the LAMIST play thus voted them No mind melding for us

i like this post: to be honest i was thinking that some of your earlier posts were awkward

Don't get it

for example, this post:

No one is asking me but I have been playing forum mafia only...

Is the color I'm using suitable for you?

nobody asked me either but i just told them my experience with mafia. it looked weird to me when you said that, since i entered the conversation without any problems

[cowsloveSushirolls]

this reminds me: you can go ahead and look at my profile: i have exactly one game that's completely finished from about a month ago, and i think it's a good indicator of what I usually do as town. i died on the first night, though. i guess it was for being too friendly [sarcastic tone]
was kind of a dick in that game to be honest

This is a bad post though. Self meta doesn't work, because if you know your meta, you can manipulate it. Maybe if it's to refute a specific claim, but unprompted like this? Just reads real fishy. Especially the bit about getting killed for being a dick.

Maybe you really were a dick, but in the context of this game it reads like you're trying to set it up as if you play the same it means you're Town again, but if you slip up and act differently, it's just because you're trying to be nicer and/or live longer.

wouldn't call it unprompted: for some reason you chopped off the part where kenny was talking about how us newbies don't know eachother's skill levels. so yes, i'm refuting a specific claim

it's a given that i'm going to manipulate my town meta, yeah. i didn't play perfectly in that one and so you'll see me trying new things and seeing what sticks. i'm not going to play the same, but you shouldn't look at my actions in a vacuum: the game's just a baseline of what i'm capable of doing, my 'skill level'.

so i'll say it right now: i've no reason to replicate my established town meta here. it sucks. i'm going to play differently, please enjoy all of the different dances i can do for you guys

[cowsloveSushirolls]

i do kind of want to live longer though, maybe if i leave this post here the wind will carry it to Entellian and Radical Rat

[cowsloveSushirolls]

Lmao, I think I'll pass on metagaming you off your 8 posts on your old account. Welcome back, though! The game is very different now from how it used to be.

its the thought that counts!

[cowsloveSushirolls]

sup nerds

it's the D himself

[cowsloveSushirolls]

I don't really consider trying new things to be meta manipulation, I meant more like picking out certain tendencies and attitudes to attempt to replicate as scum. Which is what it reads like you were setting yourself up for.

And I don't really see the general statement of new players not having much established history/reputation as a specific claim about you that necessitated refutation, so I didn't consider it relevant enough to include in the quote.

I can somewhat understand where you're coming from here, but it still feels off to me. It just reads too much like scum trying to cover their bases, with a sprinkling of AtE for good measure.

it's a bit of a double-edged sword, yeah? if i'm trying to replicate something from my past games (which i actually have two of now, one finished about 30 minutes ago) then it would be pretty blatant and it would take an ISO or two to completely knock me out of the water. missed opportunity to try and catch me doing something evil,

you can talk about how irrelevant it was to the point kennyk was making but the point stands that the only reason i made that post was because of kennyk, so it was important to leave on

that's fine, i just care if my point was made to you or not

[cowsloveSushirolls]

i do kind of want to live longer though, maybe if i leave this post here the wind will carry it to Entellian and Radical Rat

What is "it" here? Dying early?

If so, rude >B(

That is how I interpreted it. Maybe I misinterpreted it. But in that case Salsabil Faria will vote on me (again)

noooo, i mean my own message of "i want to live longer", i'm sending it to the mafia so that they heed my wishes :^)

or at least i think i am. catboi is still a very large question mark for me

[cowsloveSushirolls]

his play is really not all that uncharacteristic for how people used to play here.

my first newbie game was over in 5 pages

i spent around 6 months lurking on this website and a lot of it was spent reading the newbie games in chronological order
it's an honor, std

[cowsloveSushirolls]

Arriving fashionably late~

VOTE: Uranus

Call it gut but some slight feeling the protestations of "nothing to go off", although often a common sentiment among newbies, are here making an excuse to avoid getting involved in real conversation as the game gets more serious.

Good feelings on Salsabil and Radical Rat early. Kind of like kennyk also but I'm not sure if that's because of him being like a time traveler from the distant past of mafia. Mild fos on Entellian for showing up on the first page and then dipping.

slight disagree, i think you may be drawing too many conclusions from things that haven't happened yet
i think uranus's town potential goes up from the exact log you're describing: i'm acquaintances with them since i joined the discord server they play in often about a month ago, uranus is one of the more active ones. the setup making trends there is that they're fast paced and PR heavy. largest thing is that the people there nolim nearly every d1. i appreciate uranus putting in the effort to try and wean themselves off of waiting for mechanical information, even if it just seems like they're blindly following site meta

Drawing hasty conclusions is what the early game is all about, the self doubt and flip-flopping comes after

See, I understand what you're saying, and I'm not unsympathetic to a player not used to the style trying to adjust,

but that doesn't preclude him from being mafia.

I just have a gut feeling that's the case here, at least based on what's happened so far.

of course it doesn't preclude him from being mafia, but i think it's worth showing off why i think their behavior comes more from town!uranus than scum!uranus (but i don't think i explicitly pointed it out, i think scum uranus probably doesn't go on a small tangent about having no info until night, but ultimately it's your choice to decide if i'm projecting or not)

[cowsloveSushirolls]

I...man, newbies these days are weird. I read some games out of curiosity when I started but I have people talking about extensively lurking and doing deep history dives, just ridiculous levels of dedication.

i think mafia is a cool game

I don't mean to be unthankful. Every vote not on my ballot is fine for me. But this post was uncalled-for.

i apologize. i clarified the meaning of the post, there's no ill intent

[cowsloveSushirolls]

@kennyk what was your first emotional reaction when you found out I voted you?

i'm not kenny but in the absence of posts in this game, i want to firmly say that any RVS vote to me will usually warrant this reaction:

can i hear more about your read on radical, catboi?

[cowsloveSushirolls]

@all other players: No, I didn't ask for a prodding because I miss my fellow mafia player. And no, this was no confession of being mafia. I would never confess that. Or maybe i would in some crazy setup or as part of a really crazy plan in some situations.

feels like an odd reaction. i didn't feel this way over you explciitly telling me not to put floo at E-2, despite you scumreading them. wouldn't that be more partnery, despite you voting them because you think they're mafia?

basically what i want to ask is: why are you so concerned about your self-image here and not when talking about floo?

[cowsloveSushirolls]

I just told you not to E-2 him because of the reasons you were giving. If you totally agreed with mine or had other good reasons: fine with me. Jump on the wagon. But I don't like to see townies get on bandwagons (not talking about random votes) more or less for no real reason even if it is going with what I believe is good. I could be wrong with my thought process. So getting someone close to a kill with me being wrong and others having no real sus is not what I wanna see in a mafia game.

And with this thought process it really didn't come to my mind that me getting you not to vote on floo for the reasons given would look partnery. On the other hand I was internally debating if I even should ask for the prod or not because it would look like a link between Entellian and me. I even thought about PMing the prod request to our beloved mod to not getting unwanted attention in this matter.

Honestly I wrote the @all-part just to answer a few questions that I saw coming my way anyway after the first part of that post.

i'm pretty satisfied with this explanation, thanks

[cowsloveSushirolls]

before I think further on the kenny situation, what does E-2 mean?

two votes before eliminaton

[cowsloveSushirolls]

before I think further on the kenny situation, what does E-2 mean?

two votes before eliminaton

elimination* sorry

i'm pretty satisfied with this explanation, thanks

to elaborate on this: i was hoping for an answer that was something along the lines of "your vote doesn't help town", and i got just that, along with a pretty reasonable train of thought behind it

[cowsloveSushirolls]

I see, thanks

As for kenny, I see why he might be suspicious, but I'd wait for him to give a further defense and we can base our final thoughts on that, we dont want to rush votes lol

this is a pretty low-activity game for some reason. i think that if you're able to poke around elsewhere and wait for multiple people at a time then it'd feel way less sluggish. i think votes will get rushed if the game progresses at this pace

[cowsloveSushirolls]

One last thing before I get hammered (as I am quite sure this will be reason enough for someone to vote me). In case of my untimely death I would like my fellow townies to not only look at those who voted me but also at those who didn't vote me. I know it sounds like revenge and therefor I didn't wriite it directly after it occured to me. But cowsloveSushirolls kind of started the final bandwagon on me without even voting me. Could be he really was satisfied with my answer or he just wanted to be able to say 'What do you want? I didn't vote an innocent.' afterwards.

And now I am waiting for the Queen song 'Hammer to fall'.

by not defending you and only explaining why i thought you were town, i got two people to dig themselves into really deep holes

i have doubts that both of them are aligned with you

[cowsloveSushirolls]

it was at the cost of a bit of discussion from me but i think kenny vs floo looks a lot more towny from both sides than kenny vs radical/uranus

[cowsloveSushirolls]

hoh shit

lickety replaced into a townslot, catboi called me cringe

dunno if i called that out already

[cowsloveSushirolls]

Allthough cowsloveSushirolls defends me (again), I slightly disagree with him. I know some of you might (again) say I am overthinking things and that it makes me look even scummier, but I will try explain nonetheless.
From his point of view he can't be sure if I am townie or scum (unless he is scum himself or we are both masons. Yes I cover my bases again). He seems to feel, that I might be one of the good guys (at least I read his posts like that).

If he is correct (and I know he is, but that's another thing), and I would be killed in this bandwagon, I don't see the deep holes. It might as well have been, that both are town and both really thought, they caught scum. It sure would be something to go for, but definitely no deep hole.

If he is wrong and I am scum (which I am not), they did everything right and there is absolutely no hole in sight for them.

i think the dug holes are there regardless of your alignment. radical's intending to put the vote back with no regard to how you reacted at E-2 and even

E-1

briefly, meaning that i think that they are holding on to their biases way too much. of course i don't believe that they're intent on murdering you this early, but the information feels like just the right amount to say "oh shoot, my evidence was flimsy wasn't it. moving on"

uranus feels slightly less like this. he mentions that you give him townpings, but for the most part he's pushing with radical on the exact same point. he's not particularly iffy with the mention of you being hammered, as shown with 150.

clarifying not i'm not mad that you were put at E-2/E-1, that kind of pressure is super good in a slow game like this. i'm talking about the attitudes both of these people have
the holes in this case are the fact that they're showing off that their votes aren't going to go anywhere, but the evidence doesn't feel solid, only conjecture

if it makes you feel more secure, i think I as scum would defend you similarly to this
this only solidifies your town status. it is my soul that wants you alive

UNVOTE: LicketyQuickety
feeling OPPORTUNISTIC...

[cowsloveSushirolls]

if it makes you feel more secure, i think I as scum would defend you similarly to this

I sure believe you could and would do something like this as scum. Maybe I should say especially as scum? For in that case you would now for sure I am town and you would be the great defender of the innocent after I was killed. And why would it only be similar to this and not the same?

it is my soul that wants you alive

Now I am afraid! Your soul wants (to eat?) me alive!

i'd be strongly pushing for someone else, there's a chance i probably wouldn't have stayed silent when you were getting poked at either. maybe before the pressure, so that you didn't have a chance to look town? but that's hindsight bias

[cowsloveSushirolls]

thanks LQ

Okay... so analysis mixed with non-explanation. I can tell I don't like this slot already.

i don't like making naked fluffposts

Don't like this post either.

sorry for party rocking

This post feels uncharacteristic of their otherwise wild play where they change their votes on people for little reason (but only read up to here and some of the last page).

i'll probably change in demeanor throughout this game but my vote will always be where i think it'll help town the most

[cowsloveSushirolls]

VOTE: CLS

i must deflect

VOTE: Radical Rat

reasons already outlined.

[cowsloveSushirolls]

how does a game end in 5 pages lol?

Unless it was hella inactive then they somehow knocked off all the mafia then Its highly unlikely

I almost want to take Uranus out of the PoE and put Salsa in for this.

your POE would look scarily similar to mine which makes me sad that you're not into me

People don't usually lie about their meta as either alignment in my experience. I've heard/seen people use self meta to say they are playing the same way as they do as Town, but it's a rare occurrence that people say they are purposely deviating from their Town meta. I'd say more often this is Rand>W.

shrug? i'm still developing my townplay so i think saying stuff like that isn't entirely out of left field

[cowsloveSushirolls]

VOTE: radical rat

want more pressure here

What does your PoE look like? I kinda want to work with you and Kenny this game.

lets say i have a towncore of me/uranus/floo/kenny/your slot

if we condemn the scraps i'm fairly sure we win

[cowsloveSushirolls]

tentative townread on STD

[cowsloveSushirolls]

does it

Yes, because I can see a world where you and CLS are Scum here. Hence it would be a post to make me look bad... Not like you could have predicted that I would make that post, but, meh. I feel like there would be reason to SR me based on me admitting I see where you thought I was buddying you when I wasn't, but I digress.

in the scenario of CLSR vs STD i'm probably doing all of the pairing with posts like 102 and 204, with STD passively registering them in their mind until asked for reads: 103 ||203, 206
are you sure that we are paired? i'm feeling more of a S v T
it won't mean anything in the grand scheme of things but salsa random voted dragon's slot
i'll order my readslist while i'm at it:

town:
kennyk
uranus
floo
LQ/catboi
--
null
STD
entellian
--
mafia:
salsabil
radical

[cowsloveSushirolls]

i think the dug holes are there regardless of your alignment. radical's intending to put the vote back with no regard to how you reacted at E-2 and even E-1 briefly, meaning that i think that they are holding on to their biases way too much. of course i don't believe that they're intent on murdering you this early, but the information feels like just the right amount to say "oh shoot, my evidence was flimsy wasn't it. moving on"

Oh, I have plenty of regard for those reactions. I'm just thoroughly unconvinced. And yeah, that may be partially confbiased, but well. Biased or not, I can't not see scum there right now.

I've made my case, and I don't really have much else to add to it at present.

hmm, what doesn't interest you about their reactions? i'd be expecting a little bit more flail than what they have shown

[cowsloveSushirolls]

....what

Actually, I feel like this is really Scummy that StD isn't tracking with me here.

another shrug from me, i don't think he ever had the thought that you were trying to marinate him especially since he focused more of the topic of

me

doing it

[cowsloveSushirolls]

humbly requesting prod on entellian

[cowsloveSushirolls]

i do kind of want to live longer though, maybe if i leave this post here the wind will carry it to Entellian and Radical Rat

You didn’t use self-meta in the last game with me though, didn’t talk about it earlier because it was ongoing.

well, i never really was in danger, and i didn't see a need to push it onto people either because nobody asked for it. both of those reasons are why i gave it here, though

Either way, it looks to be the case that Salsa has inside knowledge of Kenny's and StD's game meta that they come from. I'm hesitant to call out SvS interactions so early, but I'm not sure what another conclusion would be given this... the other option, I suppose, is that Salsa is Scum with floo. But this seems unlikely to defend a buddy so directly so early in the game.

i'm unsure i follow. to me, your reasoning looks okay, but combine it with salsa's quotes and it seems like it suggests the opposite.
right now, i see this:

1) STD and kennyk come from greylabyrinth.
2) you can see salsa voting kenny multiple times throughout the thread, despite her vote already being on them
3) kenny correcting uranus on how many votes he has suggests that people like him put a lot of emphasis on votes.
3b) ???
4) salsa's interactions with STD/kenny are SvS.
i can't really see what 3b is right now. without it, i think your conclusion feels like a stretch
then, you provide quotes from salsa. i'll go over those real quick

I was ISOing Salsa, and found some posts that pinged me:

Spoiler: Pinged Posts

I think she says kennyk is trying too hard, missing the obvious motive as I pointed out for a scum accusation. It's good that someone is trying to be serious because this is how we move out of RVS, but kennyk is doing this wrong. She may also be accusing kennyk of doing that just to look town. I recall that the term LAMIST is used here for this.

Perfectly explained but I want to add one thing: they said they had an account here before, so they played before here imo. That's why I'm not taking them that much of a newb player and when I read their posts ("

this sus, that sus

"), I found they were trying

too much

which I generally find suspicious.

This looks like either a defense of floo or a buddy attempt.

I think she says kennyk is trying too hard, missing the obvious motive as I pointed out for a scum accusation. It's good that someone is trying to be serious because this is how we move out of RVS, but kennyk is doing this wrong. She may also be accusing kennyk of doing that just to look town. I recall that the term LAMIST is used here for this.

what's the best way to move us outside of RVS, if the way kenny is doing it is "wrong"? is it just because the pushing happened to be on you because he thought your thought process was unclear? what happened in this game seems like just as good of a method as any, which is why i'm asking

I find

LAMIST play

scummy in general basis.
Almost every town games of mine, there was at least one scum

who appeared to be solvy in the early stage of the game

to gain towncred and in my scum games, I also tried to get towncred at RVS stage.

This might be nothing, or it might be made to make CLS look bad while also carrying the same thing of buddy/defence of floo in prior post.

1) i could see what you're pointing out: agreeing with and making floo's logic stronger will have that effect and scum!salsa probably wants that
but if you're looking for salsa vs kenny this is probably the worst quote to pull out. salsa makes no indication that they know about kenny's experience outside of what he's done on mafiascum. in fact, they mistakenly believe that they're not a newbie, which is later confirmed when kenny tells us about the two games they had on the account they lost their password to.
2) also reasonable, but another anti-pairing with kenny. they're using self meta to justify their read on them and showing that their vote isnt going anywhere

[cowsloveSushirolls]

Can you explain more? How do you think expressing paranoia
over NAI stuff without even getting pressure is coming from town mindset? The more I'm reading them, more I find them scummy but on the same time their wagon isn’t having that much of resistance I'm thinking scum!them would have atp which is giving me 2nd thoughts....

what kenny did was undoubtedly odd. i do not think it comes from a town mindset

only

though.
i think that what he did is something both town and mafia can do.
i pushed a little bit on something that i thought could actually be scummy (him defending floo despite voting them) and made it related to him being defensive about his prod, and he gave good answers to both
(i think that if mafia is forced to answer a lot of things at once, they'll struggle a bit, but his post felt natural, so i think he is town right now)

[cowsloveSushirolls]

Which 2?

radical rat and uranus

[cowsloveSushirolls]

it was at the cost of a bit of discussion from me but i think kenny vs floo looks a lot more towny from both sides than kenny vs radical/uranus

What do you find to townread

floo

? I don’t still find any post from them after they said why they vote

kenny

....

i don't really think that floo looked very town when fighting with kenny, i think it's more that radical and uranus started pushing kenny wasn't good. i think floo's weird push looks townier when you compare them

speaking of floo

floo has requested to replace out. Deadline is frozen at 4 days 19 hours until a replacement is found.

going to go to bed

[cowsloveSushirolls]

Allthough cowsloveSushirolls defends me (again), I slightly disagree with him. I know some of you might (again) say I am overthinking things and that it makes me look even scummier, but I will try explain nonetheless.
From his point of view he can't be sure if I am townie or scum (unless he is scum himself or we are both masons. Yes I cover my bases again). He seems to feel, that I might be one of the good guys (at least I read his posts like that).

If he is correct (and I know he is, but that's another thing), and I would be killed in this bandwagon, I don't see the deep holes. It might as well have been, that both are town and both really thought, they caught scum. It sure would be something to go for, but definitely no deep hole.

If he is wrong and I am scum (which I am not), they did everything right and there is absolutely no hole in sight for them.

i think the dug holes are there regardless of your alignment. radical's intending to put the vote back with no regard to how you reacted at E-2 and even

E-1

briefly, meaning that i think that they are holding on to their biases way too much. of course i don't believe that they're intent on murdering you this early, but the information feels like just the right amount to say "oh shoot, my evidence was flimsy wasn't it. moving on"

uranus feels slightly less like this. he mentions that you give him townpings, but for the most part he's pushing with radical on the exact same point. he's not particularly iffy with the mention of you being hammered, as shown with 150.

clarifying not i'm not mad that you were put at E-2/E-1, that kind of pressure is super good in a slow game like this. i'm talking about the attitudes both of these people have
the holes in this case are the fact that they're showing off that their votes aren't going to go anywhere, but the evidence doesn't feel solid, only conjecture

if it makes you feel more secure, i think I as scum would defend you similarly to this
this only solidifies your town status. it is my soul that wants you alive

UNVOTE: LicketyQuickety
feeling OPPORTUNISTIC...

Don’t get a thing, can you explain more about your case on

Radical

and

Uranus

please?

Also don't understand your stance on the

Catboi

slot, if you voted them for some reason, then why you said

LQ

is replaced in a town slot???

Who is feeling OPPORTUNISTIC btw?

i didn't really like that they were waiting for somebody else to do the pushing. to me, it feels less like "CLSR said something very convincing" and more like "CLSR seems ready to push a townie, let's help them" and then when they seem to pay not that much attention to what kennyk has been saying (i think everything he's saying is towny enough) i do not see their towny intentions

it's a bit tongue-in-cheek: in my first game someone basically called me 'cringe' and scumread me off of it, and they flipped town. my vote was a random vote so it needed to get off at some point

me. i'm the person feeling opportunistic

[cowsloveSushirolls]

Can you explain more? How do you think expressing paranoia
over NAI stuff without even getting pressure is coming from town mindset? The more I'm reading them, more I find them scummy but on the same time their wagon isn’t having that much of resistance I'm thinking scum!them would have atp which is giving me 2nd thoughts....

what kenny did was undoubtedly odd. i do not think it comes from a town mindset

only

though.
i think that what he did is something both town and mafia can do.
i pushed a little bit on something that i thought could actually be scummy (him defending floo despite voting them) and made it related to him being defensive about his prod, and he gave good answers to both
(i think that if mafia is forced to answer a lot of things at once, they'll struggle a bit, but his post felt natural, so i think he is town right now)

Can you mention the post where they defend

floo

please?

sure, that would be post 62

catboi, what does your scum game look like?

Not like this.

This response pings me....

in the topic of pre-emptive defenses i think this is one of catboi's worst posts

[cowsloveSushirolls]

VOTE: CLS

i must deflect

VOTE: Radical Rat

reasons already outlined.

Lol! From your 193, I get the vibe that you'll vote

LQ

next

maybe? it looked to me like they were just poking me for random things but i don't find it that scummy

[cowsloveSushirolls]

I didn’t vote STD, they voted me, but it wasn’t random.

sorry i meant that you voted A to Z as a random vote, which later turned into STD, their replacement

[cowsloveSushirolls]

i didn't really like that they were waiting for somebody else to do the pushing. to me, it feels less like "CLSR said something very convincing" and more like "CLSR seems ready to push a townie, let's help them" and then when they seem to pay not that much attention to what kennyk has been saying (i think everything he's saying is towny enough) i do not see their towny intentions

This is not what happened.

You pushed on something I chose to write off as a joke, then kenny's explanation showed that I was wrong about it being a joke, and set off all my scum alarms.

It is true that without your push, I probably wouldn't be on kenny right now. It is not true that I was following you saying "something convincing," which doesn't even make sense considering you accepted their explanation as Town, and I did not.

It is also not true that I'm not paying attention to what he's saying. In fact, I actually believe

most

of his explanation. I just think that's a Scum mindset, and not a Town mindset, which I thought I'd made pretty clear...

okay okay.
i wasn't convincing, i pushed something you thought was a joke and you got scumpings from their response, got it. sorry for misinterpreting you this hard.
i'm going to bump this question

i think the dug holes are there regardless of your alignment. radical's intending to put the vote back with no regard to how you reacted at E-2 and even E-1 briefly, meaning that i think that they are holding on to their biases way too much. of course i don't believe that they're intent on murdering you this early, but the information feels like just the right amount to say "oh shoot, my evidence was flimsy wasn't it. moving on"

Oh, I have plenty of regard for those reactions. I'm just thoroughly unconvinced. And yeah, that may be partially confbiased, but well. Biased or not, I can't not see scum there right now.

I've made my case, and I don't really have much else to add to it at present.

hmm, what doesn't interest you about their reactions? i'd be expecting a little bit more flail than what they have shown

[cowsloveSushirolls]

rr why do you trust salsa

Because her posting has consistently read as genuine scumhunting, and while I was initially iffy about her kenny tunneling, after coming to my own conclusion that kenny is almost certainly scum, her being there first reinforces that townlean into a firmer townread.

is she your scumpartner

i think it's hard to backtrack from content like this, especially when one of them flips red. i don't see partner equity here

[cowsloveSushirolls]

And it is really hard to upset me in forum mafia. I generally try not to be too emotional while writing texts. And it is no exception in mafia.

you've already shown this even without regards to you being put at E-2 and E-1, so i feel like at this point radical is projecting when they talk about your light reaction being a scumtell

[cowsloveSushirolls]

i cant wait for this to go from a 7 player game to a 9 player game, hehehe

[cowsloveSushirolls]

salsa is a bit townier than i remember, i will sleep on that thought and come back with more information

[cowsloveSushirolls]

i didn't really like that they were waiting for somebody else to do the pushing. to me, it feels less like "CLSR said something very convincing" and more like "CLSR seems ready to push a townie, let's help them" and then when they seem to pay not that much attention to what kennyk has been saying (i think everything he's saying is towny enough) i do not see their towny intentions

it's a bit tongue-in-cheek: in my first game someone basically called me 'cringe' and scumread me off of it, and they flipped town. my vote was a random vote so it needed to get off at some point

I don't remember this thing happened in the same way you're describing here.

in the game we played together it didn't happen. it happened in newbie 2071: The Sandwich Debate

Can you explain more? How do you think expressing paranoia
over NAI stuff without even getting pressure is coming from town mindset? The more I'm reading them, more I find them scummy but on the same time their wagon isn’t having that much of resistance I'm thinking scum!them would have atp which is giving me 2nd thoughts....

what kenny did was undoubtedly odd. i do not think it comes from a town mindset

only

though.
i think that what he did is something both town and mafia can do.
i pushed a little bit on something that i thought could actually be scummy (him defending floo despite voting them) and made it related to him being defensive about his prod, and he gave good answers to both
(i think that if mafia is forced to answer a lot of things at once, they'll struggle a bit, but his post felt natural, so i think he is town right now)

Can you mention the post where they defend

floo

please?

sure, that would be post 62

But that's not a defend

kenny told me that, and i realized that i was wrong

[cowsloveSushirolls]

Yes, I agree with you on this but my experience here is holding me back tbh. A wagon which is formatting without strong resistance (specially on Day 1) has much more chance to flip as town rather than scum fmpov + they also are an old player. Even if I think

Entel

is their scum partner, hence no other wagon is formed and no resistance is formatting at the current wagon, as an experienced one, scum!

kenny

could be play the whole thing differently imo.

I didn't respond to this earlier because I expected you to see the resistance when you finished catching up, but it looks like you still believe it, so... How do you consider this no resistance? From my perspective, it felt like we were getting close to a consensus scumread, then hit a brick wall as blatant scumposting ended up being townread somehow.

been chewing on this quote for a while

is this town frustration?

[cowsloveSushirolls]

Does Scum really fight someone saying a vote on them is bad as Scum? I mean, maybe, but more often Rand>V.

sorry, who is this in reference to?

[cowsloveSushirolls]

after a bit of thought i don't feel as confident as i did when i first placed my vote on radical. upon an ISO i can't really pinpoint any potential agenda, and i see levels of reasoning that i *think* scum struggles to replicate especially when asked for, so i'll lay off and say they're not the vote today

a very lame thing to say but, i'm feeling one scum in the people that are currently being gone. i've more or less townread everyone that's currently active so that's the only thing i can say without a total reevaluation, which i'm not feeling because there's not really a sense of urgency in the air

UNVOTE: Radical Rat

[cowsloveSushirolls]

It's very rarely that easy.

apologies for being deliberately tone deaf but i'd apply this better to the kennyk case and say that radical still stinks for it

[cowsloveSushirolls]

I sorta feel like Entellian ditched the game. I'd say that more often Rand>T because if he is Scum he's in a pretty good spot here.

how so?

[cowsloveSushirolls]

i mean i'd like to think that i'm on the right track, enough so that there's a bit of pressure on scum to do better

quick profile look and it seems that entellian last looked at the game at august 18th, around when the prod was sent. unsure what the lurking is about

[cowsloveSushirolls]

mod didn't mention it but they're looking for replacements for entell right now

Btw, who do you think is my partner here?
Also, same question to you... what change will occur in your reads when I'll flip green?

you didn't ask me but i'm going to hella tinfoil this one

chances are your partner is StD

[cowsloveSushirolls]

mod didn't mention it but they're looking for replacements for entell right now

How do you know this?

i get notifications cause im subscribed to the newbie queue

[cowsloveSushirolls]

StD probably not SvS with Salsa here.

didn't really feel this way: there may be some partner equity but it might be too on the nose: StD blatantly asking RR if salsa is their scumpartner feels odd, plus they're slightly less hostile to salsa compared to you

on second thought it's probably poor play to try and do smtn like this in a newbie game, that's 2 condemns you gotta plow through, and also the fact that solo mafia has a reallly hard time dealing with certain power roles (JK, tracker come to mind)
it's not something that i can be confident on, StD does a lot of naked voting so i might be inferring things that he might not even have thought of but i'm feeling that non-zero chance

[cowsloveSushirolls]

By keeping in mind our last game together, you shouldn’t be townread me ig??

i didn't see this before, but
why not?

[cowsloveSushirolls]

RegRider replaces floo
astronomyfortwo replaces Entellian

Please welcome them!! I will unfreeze the deadline once both of them confirm into the game or make posts into the game.

Welcome RegRider and welcome astronomyfortwo. Thank you for filling up our ranks.

I guess we are no longer able to use rr for Radical Rat though. Good thing this isn't a pirate themed game or I would suspect rr and rr were scum, arrrr.

it's not pirate themed?
man, i gotta ditch the profile picture

[cowsloveSushirolls]

Because I turn my playstyle 180 degrees again! Did you forget?

that just means you're a flexible player and that i should read you in other ways

[cowsloveSushirolls]

nice, floo really was town

[cowsloveSushirolls]

nice, floo really was town

Not that I have anything substantial to disagree with you in this aspect. But why are you so sure?

reads arent necessarily agreeable, but regrider comes off as natural enough for me to sully floo's name. so why do i think floo leans town?

floo's approach to the game was strictly anti-scum

i am not versed in mafia theory at all, but what i'm feeling is scum really wants to do these two things:
-act like town
-secure miselims

you can't tell me with a straight face that floo did either of those things with their introduction. ergo, 'anti-scum'

[cowsloveSushirolls]

woops, i mean (not) sully floo's name

[cowsloveSushirolls]

The wording of CLSs post on the other hand sounds very much like a matter of fact. It could as well have been a post after a flip. And I don't see how it is a nearly 100 % thing floo was / RegRider is town.

now that i've explained why, do you find my interpretation of reg and floo's posts agreeable?

[cowsloveSushirolls]

First, your townread on floo is something I don't get. You said he didn't act like town and didn't secure a miselim. And because he didn't do those things scum does he is town. Apart from the fact that scum and town like to act like town I have problems with your logic. To the point he left he had six posts. His first three being a vote (on me), a smiley and a 'guess again'. Then two posts of accusing me to be to solvy (maybe hopping on a train Salsa started?) and finishing with one where he asked me how I felt about his post. All in all that's not much to go by in concern of seeing an approach there. He might have even tried to secure my miselim with him accusing me of being to solvy.

So a townread on floo for me is no option. I could live with a nul-read (which I myself posted when asked about reads).

On the other hand I guess there is not much of an interpretation of regs posts in your post. I agree that they look natural. But they are in no way confirming that floo was town.

the logic's just there to suggest that

floo is more likely to be town doing a minimalist approach to RVS than scum pretending to be town doing a minimalist approach to RVS.

i don't think mafia's first instinct is to do what floo did

me talking about regrider was solely to say that they haven't done anything particularly scummy, so my townlean on floo gets to stay

a quick ISO look shows that floo was voting you for entirely different reasons than salsa:
> I find it suspicious that you are trying to find secret motives for RVS votes.
as far as i know, nobody in this thread has found this line of reasoning particularly convincing. personally, i think your reaction was nothing out of place. i feel this supports what i said about their focus not being on "securing miselims"
all they had to do was sheep salsa's reasoning, which was backed up pretty well: they used their own self meta and the general patterns they've observed, so it was easily the most sound case in the thread at the time (this post was #70)

if you have them at null, that's not out of place also. their opening wasn't scummy, but you'd have to go through a bit of gymnastics to call them town for it.
my read was plenty exaggerated: accurately reading extremely low posters isn't my forte

[cowsloveSushirolls]

will i find a good person to vote by deadline?

only time will tell................

[cowsloveSushirolls]

The wording of CLSs post on the other hand sounds very much like a matter of fact. It could as well have been a post after a flip. And I don't see how it is a nearly 100 % thing floo was / RegRider is town.

now that i've explained why, do you find my interpretation of reg and floo's posts agreeable?

I still don’t understand, they had 6 posts only, how do you come up with this conclusion from that I can't follow.

i tried to explain it a little more in 502

will i find a good person to vote by deadline?

only time will tell................

You can vote me, I'm pretty famous

noooo!
what if you

self hammer so that the replacements can't give reads

[cowsloveSushirolls]

to be honest i don't have a read on you, salsa so i'll go ahead and fix that tomorrow (12 hours from now?)

[cowsloveSushirolls]

why do you think i would be bussing my partner out of nowhere d1

you might've been expecting a real answer but all i have is this

why not

[cowsloveSushirolls]

uh ok

i mean i could but it'd be a lot easier as scum to not do that

thanks

[cowsloveSushirolls]

Besides making this about the team being exactly Uranus/CLS, I will just vote for Uranus.

VOTE: Uranus

[cowsloveSushirolls]

LHF

i've seen this abbreviation so many times and i don't know what it means yet

[cowsloveSushirolls]

Low hanging fruit. It's a way to say a player that is an easy target.

i think it's nearly impossible to net a condemn on astronomy given what's currently on thread

what gives you this impression?

also, i had the impression that LHF was a specific player archetype, and so in my mind it sorta filled itself in as Let's Have Friends

[cowsloveSushirolls]

sorry for not doing that one thing i said i'd do + a couple other things, i'll be back in like 20 minutes where i'll sit down and write those

[cowsloveSushirolls]

I think I had a big back and forth with CLS about them playing differently from their previous game and how they are trying to change up their meta, but here they say their last game is a good indication of what They usually do as town. So which is it?

why not both? did you even skim through my games? it's fine if you didn't
ito be honest, i didn't think of the second point too much, but the way you portray them both as if they contradict eachother doesn't make sense, because one skim through my games shows that both statements are fine

the post where you got the 2nd point from was an issue with wording: what i wanted to show with my post was that kenny should be able to gauge my skill level despite me being a newbie like him

[cowsloveSushirolls]

And then they give 2 reasons for TRing Uranus. Both of them are TRing Uranus for the opposite of what Uranus is doing in this game (not being active) and how they are different here than on discord regarding the game meta of not Eliming D1. I think the TR on Uranus is completely unjustified given Uranus never says they are trying to distance themselves from no-voting D1 anywhere in Uranus ISO IIRC. In fact, Uranus actually DOES try and do a random vote in their second post, but only after they had gotten heat for not doing RVS.

missing a few key details there, LQ

-uranus got heat for not doing RVS

on their first post.

they still expressed an intent to do it, but only once they get the drive to. this leads into the 2nd detail
-uranus doesn't have to say that they're distancing themselves from no-voting, they showed it by.......................... voting someone
my townread is beautiful and intact. it hasn't really changed from 165

if you need written word then i'm surprised you didn't ask

uranus, have you been trying to distance yourself from no-voting D1 this game?

[cowsloveSushirolls]

????? No Clue. barely know what i'm doing though, so.... probably?

two thirds of us are low hanging fruit, waiting to get picked apart by the SEs

[cowsloveSushirolls]

oh yeah

salsa's a townlean

placing kenny a bit lower, see if i can put that into more words anytime soon

was LQ's push on me scum-motivated? i feel there's not enough tinfoil/conjecture for me to think that it's a push in good faith. what else did you find from that reevaluation, LQ?

[cowsloveSushirolls]

@CLS, love the dog, very curious as to what exactly it's supposed to mean

[cowsloveSushirolls]

Just answer why/how this is your Town game and not your Scum game, thanks.

self meta is weird, hypothetical self meta is just bad

not to mention that it's nearly impossible for me to give an unbiased perspective because one - i don't have a scum game logged on here yet and two - i'm cows

but if you're looking for a serious answer

as of today, i'm the only person who really dove into my townreads and the thought process behind them, which nobody else really did for these two people: uranus, floo

if i avoid these and polarize the discussion between kenny and whoever else they are 1v1ing, or salsa and

whoever, i forgot

(whatever random battles that have been happening) then town leaves with significantly less information upon a flip, which is what i want especially if it's Town V Town fighting

it's something that i THINK is inside my scumrange :^)

[cowsloveSushirolls]

i hate the tone it sounds fake

it's Hedge but i'm struggling to see it as Scum Hedge

[cowsloveSushirolls]

i'm like 200% sure uranus is a power role so im keeping this vote here

i am concentrated evil

[cowsloveSushirolls]

i'm like 200% sure uranus is a power role so im keeping this vote here

i am concentrated evil

Oh, we have a scum confession. But wait. How can you be so sure about the power role. Damn those fake confessions.

VIBES

but it's a convoluted way of saying "i do not want uranus condemned today but pressure on a lurker is very much welcomed"

[cowsloveSushirolls]

Oh, we have a scum confession. But wait. How can you be so sure about the power role. Damn those fake confessions.

what gave away that it was an act? D:

[cowsloveSushirolls]

I'm here and just see the VC. I'm still recovering, don't have energy for catching up yet. Are we agreeing to eliminate

Uranus

here? If so then I'll hammer right away. If not then I've to catch up which I don’t want to atm...

hammer is bad, uranus hasn't claimed yet

[cowsloveSushirolls]

UNVOTE: Uranus

lame! now i actually have to digest what's happened in thread

[cowsloveSushirolls]

2: A quick question but can you just no vote someone on day 1, I presumed not seeing as people were already quick to suspect others

elaborate? i know that we're able to vote whoever we want (including no lim), whenever we want
does that answer your question?

[cowsloveSushirolls]

Kennyk
Salsa
StD
LQ
Null

I am open to any Elim thats not these people.

alright real talk my elimination pool is the exact opposite of this, aside from a mutual townread of salsa
let's go and work this out eventually

[cowsloveSushirolls]

3: I think cow might just be defending me either because he really thinks I'm trustworthy or from prior experience playing w/ me.

it's the latter, and it's mostly based on tone. i don't really remember your individual content, which may or may not be a bad thing

whats your opinion on the two most recent replacements?

[cowsloveSushirolls]

Can you please explain this post? I have problems to understand why you unvoted.

alright, so i have uranus right

they're a townread based on gut and a bit of tone

LQ makes a large post demonstrating how me and uranus are paired scum.

i post a funny dog picture and vote uranus with them.

then, i explain why the case is factually incorrect so that LQ could develop it more (lq does not respond, but has shown he's read it later in thread. 591)

uranus gets run to E-1, claims.

i got the things i asked for in 594, i unvote. the townread is still here because LQ hasn't bothered replying

[cowsloveSushirolls]

i guess it isnt a GOOD look that both of kenny's scumreads decided to vote uranus with minimal reasoning, while both were thinking they were town

[cowsloveSushirolls]

Also @CLS, can you explain what about Uranus's tone makes you TR them?

a quick ISO shows what i'm thinking: uranus has their win condition in mind when typing up posts like 109 (but it's subtle)

stream-of-conciousness posts are nice but i do think ones that aren't directly related to thread lean town esp for newbies, since it suggests that they don't really care about their self image and also that they have no personal obligation to post 'individual content' which i also think leans town 117, 118

maybe there's a phenomenon that if you say "there's nothing to go on" 3 posts in a row the RNG gods instantly swap your role to VT, regardless if you already were or not
25 26 34

but you know what i (dont) like?

i appreciate uranus putting in the effort to try and wean themselves off of waiting for mechanical information, even if it just seems like they're blindly following site meta

there's something that throws water into this point
in the server we share i just realized that there's no actually 'no lim' option only 'abstain' which doesn't count as an actual vote. which is super wack because a single person could vote when everyone else is abstaining and snipe whoever they wanted
this site's voting system is more W
so i think that point is more NAI. anyalignment!uranus would probably see it as an obligation to vote someone after seeing everyone else do it, since they probably have in their mind that a no elim is now impossible

and also, refusing to give input on the people that have voted them. it feels like the ultimate anti-spew: just a little "are you guys able to unvote?" and nothing else. then, when explicitly asked what they think about the replacements (one of which voted them with a "i agree with 545") they give:

Well for the prior replacements, there's nothing much that stands out.. yet

i think it's nowhere near enough to vote them, however

[cowsloveSushirolls]

I'll be honest. CLS is very difficult for me to get a beat on. In some parts they are very logical and playing the game well. In other parts they are just plain strange. I get that they said they read the forum for about 6 months before signing up for a game (IIRC) but some of their takes are weird/bad.

Like why are they saying Uranus is going to claim PR? Was that them saying they were sure Uranus was Scum or something?

Just a whole bunch of question marks there.

594

[cowsloveSushirolls]

what a lame ass semantics argument

someone tell me why salsa is mafia real quick

[cowsloveSushirolls]

Why did you vote Uranus then?

"but pressure on a lurker is very much welcomed"

i had faith that it wouldn't get hammered

[cowsloveSushirolls]

I just don't get why you vote them when the game was idling and we had like 2-3 days left. Like, we DO need an elim at this point and it's weird for me thinking you were just voting based on lurking.

is lurking the right word? uranus posts on here an okay amount, but their individual content is very sporadic. i'm not sure what embodies that definition

why wouldn't i vote them when the game is idling? the game is not idling explicitly because i helped put them at E-1
again, i did not want to condemn them. i'm working towards an actual condemn vote and i already have a voting pool set up. i just gotta figure out which person is best

[cowsloveSushirolls]

Don't you think asking Uranus a question suits your needs there better than a vote if you're not SRing them?

i did both. are you saying the vote was unnecessary?

your honor, i was simply gaming
(#193)

[cowsloveSushirolls]

Some of Kenny's later posts are worrying to me.

salsa red heavily implies kenny blue so i'm unsure on how scum you think salsa is

[cowsloveSushirolls]

If CLS is scum, but Uranus isn't, why unvote at all? Why not just ride the wagon all the way through for a free mislim?

I'm here and just see the VC. I'm still recovering, don't have energy for catching up yet. Are we agreeing to eliminate

Uranus

here? If so then I'll hammer right away. If not then I've to catch up which I don’t want to atm...

"hey salsa, i think uranus is really worth hammering, you should really go and do that now."

[cowsloveSushirolls]

Honestly I don't like this post at all.
So you had a townread on Uranus (which for the sake of this argumentation I buy). LQ connects you to him as both being scum (won't discuss those lines of connectiion demonstrating here). You vote him despite your townread (I guess to put him under pressure to verify your read). Still fine. Your townread Uranus gets run to E-1. You see this and do multiple posts before Uranus claims Vanilla Townie. That's OK for you, you unvote.

As I pointed out earlier: what else should he have claimed? A town power role? Mafia?

What intrigues me most is the fact you voted him just to put him under pressure to claim. But you let him stay in the E-1 position despite reading him town. And if I could believe some of your posts even town power role.

I am sorry, but that is way too much.

sorry, what other post did you point out bolded in? i can't seem to find it
dude should just claim truthfully. if i read him as town, then i wholly believe whatever he claims and it's the equivalent of a full flip.

if you think that i read them as town too much to do what i did, that's reasonable, but know this: i've called every single person in this playerlist town at one point, which is really bad. please allow me to poke at my most flimsy reads

right now, my readslist goes
town:
radical
uranus
entellian/astronomy
floo/regrider
salsabil
--
null:
LQ/catboi
kennyk
--
null-scum:
StD (no one asked me, but i have no idea how to read the 'we need a flip now' attitude)

i forced uranus to E-1 to unpair myself with him in an insane bout of WIFOM, mostly because i thought it would be funny. the towny reasons for it i figured out later

[cowsloveSushirolls]

Only a satisfying answer to my doubts about the timing would have left me with not voting.

the people on uranus are of very dubious alignment

[cowsloveSushirolls]

floo is entirely carrying that slot after what happened with uranus and them

[cowsloveSushirolls]

floo is entirely carrying that slot after what happened with uranus and them

Your reasons for TRing floo are weak.

i've no reason to touch reg right now if they've provided so little information that they're an objectively bad lim

[cowsloveSushirolls]

Their vote for Uranus was opportunistic af.

i'm aware of this
dude's probably still confused since you haven't admitted that your case is worthless yet

[cowsloveSushirolls]

Because it isn't.

the obvious question for me to ask here is "why are you asking me to scumread people who just followed your not-worthless logic?"

[cowsloveSushirolls]

Because it's opportunistic, which you admit... Seriously here? What are you smoking exactly?

i'm smoking that mason herb
spiritual town connections


if opportunistic vote on uranus implies

reg scum

,

uranus town

but opportunistic vote is because of them sheeping your logic which explains

CLSR + uranus scum

, a case that you continue to affirm isn't bad
then at least one of the two have to be wrong if you want to keep up consistent thinking

but obv you don't believe any of this when you're sheeping StD on salsa

what are your reads even, dude?

[cowsloveSushirolls]

actually it would be kinda funny if i voted here

VOTE: LicketyQuickety

[cowsloveSushirolls]

What? Am I suppose to have binary reads or something smh my head.

i'm going to confbias my way into this condemn but this sarcasm + this air of "i'm not taking you seriously" from your past few other posts does not make me feel that good about you, to the point where i gotta exert bad confident townie vibes to the evil scum

[cowsloveSushirolls]

I mean, do you really think I should be taking you seriously?

i'm the only person attempting to take you seriously, which shows because i'm the only person with a clear stance on you
having the same back would be awesome :^)

[cowsloveSushirolls]

For 1. Too many TRs.
2. No TLs.
3. Only 2 Null Reads.
4. ???
5. Profit?

you're scumreading me off..... not separating my townreads from the leans? the flail is real?
(the cutoff from reads to leans is between uranus/astronomy. my bad)

in the same post, i acknowledge that the amount of nulls i had was a problem, but for the opposite reason you're suggesting.
i fail to see why 2 null reads is a problem if because of this i have a decently strong POE

if you think that i read them as town too much to do what i did, that's reasonable, but know this: i've called every single person in this playerlist town at one point, which is really bad. please allow me to poke at my most flimsy reads

even with this post in advance you've given the worst possible answers to everything
i have to squint really hard to

not

see LQ the scum smoking that tinfoil and talking about colors that aren't there. the pushes are downright awful and are blatantly incorrect, and when corrected you just bring up other factually incorrect points. why do this if town?
you haven't bothered to fix your extremely unclear reads after like, 4 posts of mine that show you need to. you're doing nobody favors and it's way easier to call you scum than to stomach the other scenario: i have to bear with town!LQ until one of us dies

J/K about the drugs thing.

too late

[cowsloveSushirolls]

I absolutely don't like is your last two sentences. I can see why the accusation of both you and Uranus being scum is not that good. But if your direct reaction on this is the vote on the suspected partner doesn't unpair you at all.

It looks more like a "Oh, you think we are both scum? Look I vote him." (spoken in a very bad acting voice).

And putting someone on E-1 just for the laughs is just not right. That is just anti-town behaviour even if you were town.

yeah, bolded was exactly what i thought when making that initial vote. it's fine if you think it doesn't unpair us, just focus on the information it brought instead of the initial reason i did it.
in my perspective the wagon straight up confirmed uranus as town. no beating around the bush for that one

wording error of mine, though: i put uranus at E-3. my hands are 100% clean. go and smack StD around if you don't like people randomly being put at e-1

[cowsloveSushirolls]

If I'm Scum, why don't I want to hammer Salsa here?

649 applies. replace "claiming a power role as scum" with "hammering a person at E-1".

or you know, i could tinfoil salsa/LQ and find evidence for it AFTER i drill it into my head

you know thread reception to a hammer would not be good, why ask this?

[cowsloveSushirolls]

I would have not thought much of it, but RR's vote comes about 40 minutes before CLS says they like Kenny's response, so it is very likely that CLS saw RR's post. It's a good way to keep Scum from getting too much pressure on them if CLS and Uranus are SvS here. I'm not sold on this being the exact team, but I do think they have a lot of Scum equity together seen in 545 and 666.

i find this odd, because i was never in any pressure: i asked a question to a

townread i had at the time, expecting a very specific answer.

you can ISO me and see exactly that

feeling a light townlean on kenny and uranus

@all other players: No, I didn't ask for a prodding because I miss my fellow mafia player. And no, this was no confession of being mafia. I would never confess that. Or maybe i would in some crazy setup or as part of a really crazy plan in some situations.

feels like an odd reaction. i didn't feel this way over you explciitly telling me not to put floo at E-2, despite you scumreading them. wouldn't that be more partnery, despite you voting them because you think they're mafia?

basically what i want to ask is: why are you so concerned about your self-image here and not when talking about floo?

i'm pretty satisfied with this explanation, thanks

to elaborate on this: i was hoping for an answer that was something along the lines of "your vote doesn't help town", and i got just that, along with a pretty reasonable train of thought behind it

i didn't quit pressuring kenny because of how i thought i'd look if i continued to do so, i stopped because the pressure gave me exactly what i wanted.
yes, i saw radical's post. it was in no way related to what i was doing so i ignored it

[cowsloveSushirolls]

It wasn't you who put Uranus on E-1. So my statement about you putting him on E-1 just for the lols and marking this as anti-town is wrong. You put him on E-3 for the lols, which still isn't good but way better than E-1. And letting the vote stay where it is in the E-1 situation is still not good at all.

But I have some totally different question for you:
Are your read lists in order or are they unsorted? Order in this context means, that the person you named highest is the most likely town in your eyes. Unsorted could also mean they are generally sorted but that some position(s) are more of a tactical sort.
Do you like to give more or less hidden hints in your posts? The plural form is there for a reason.

i'd agree with you if you said it was too risky, but it was not bad by any means. i thought the claim was very important and studying the bandwagon at future dates will also come in handy

i'll usually mention if my read lists are sorted or not, but lately i've been forgetting to mention it
my latest one is sorted

i'm unsure what you mean by 'hints' but i'll give my own interpretation of it
if i have information that someone doesn't then i'll hint it in my posts to see if anyone gets the implied message, but i wouldn't exactly call them hidden

example would be 37, then later 57 where i talk about the meta information i have on uranus

[cowsloveSushirolls]

am i tweaking or did you play in champs

[cowsloveSushirolls]

i'm going to play differently, please enjoy all of the different dances i can do for you guys

This is an eyebrow raising statement.
You’re going to play different from your "established" town meta?

did i use that phrase wrong? i think if you ignore it the post still makes sense

[cowsloveSushirolls]

am i tweaking or did you play in champs

Yeah i did. MU champs right? I was in game 2

wild

Hello Norwee! Welcome aboard!

I am grateful to have more time to breathe, but I maintain my position that we really need to buckle down and get limming.

right now i mostly wanna see if norwee can help me ground myself since absolutely nobody has touched what has happened between me and LQ yet. i think regardless of their alignment i gain some Sweet Information

[cowsloveSushirolls]

i'm not intent on limming kenny: the VLA doesn't make me very confident that we could get everything sorted out (claims, legacy reads are both very important regardless of flip) and asking for an extension won't help with that either. it's feeling like one of those days where a horrific compromise will have to happen for most people

but not me

[cowsloveSushirolls]

Salsabil Faria requested for replacement.
Deadline is frozen at 1 day. Please continue without a deadline until a replacement is found.

NorwegianboyEE replaces Salsabil Faria
An extra day added to the deadline to allow Norwegian to catchup.

it feels confusing but i think 48 hours from the post above is correct

[cowsloveSushirolls]

small thing to chew on: may not be as shallow as what i have, but if STD = scum, they usually have a lot more solving energy than this?
(newbie 2067, scum game of STD's). quick read

Not impressed with Norweigh's catch up.

i mean compared to the work you put out it's more often than not going to be unimpressive lul

[cowsloveSushirolls]

Kenny already claimed though, and has generally been pretty open about reads. I don't think there's really much else we need from him.

honestly, i forgot kenny being at E-1 even happened

[cowsloveSushirolls]

right now i mostly wanna see if norwee can help me ground myself since absolutely nobody has touched what has happened between me and LQ yet. i think regardless of their alignment i gain some Sweet Information

UNVOTE: LicketyQuickety

[cowsloveSushirolls]

Also, Scum are WAY more likely to claim PR than VT.

neither of my town games had a PR claiming scum

sample size?

[cowsloveSushirolls]

sample size?

It's -EV for them to claim VT if someone says intent to hammer them.

kenny is explicitly against the idea of claiming PR as scum, so the VT claim is NAI
shown in 649

also, both E-1s were because of absurdly poor reasoning, and neither of them had people that were willing to hammer (at least one of the wagons had people inside asking for claims, not outside)
i wouldn't say the people involved were really in danger

[cowsloveSushirolls]

zzzzzzzzz

[cowsloveSushirolls]

Spoiler: both E-1 wagons

Vote Count 1-5

Save The Dragons

:

floo

: , kennyk

Entellian

:

kennyk

: floo, Salsabil Faria,, Uranus

Uranus

: LicketyQuickety,

cowsloveSushirolls

:Entellian

Salsabil Faria

: Save The Dragons,

Radical Rat

:

LicketyQuickety

: cowsloveSushirolls, Radical Rat

Not Voting

(9):

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to eliminate.

Deadline: August 25th, 2021

Countdown: (expired on 2021-08-23 20:00:00)

Mod Notes:

LicketyQuickety replaces Catboi
Salsabil Faria is on V/LA till 19th August 2021
-

height of wagon: floo, salsa, radical, uranus (chronological order)

Vote Count 1-8

Save The Dragons

:

RegRider

: ,

astronomyfortwo

:

kennyk

: , Radical Rat

Uranus

: LicketyQuickety, cowsloveSushirolls, RegRider, Save The Dragons [E-1]

cowsloveSushirolls

:,

Salsabil Faria

: ,, Uranus, astronomyfortwo

Radical Rat

:

LicketyQuickety

: Salsabil Faria

Not Voting

(9): , kennyk

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to eliminate.

Deadline: August 27th, 2021

Countdown: (expired on 2021-08-27 20:00:00)

Mod Notes:

-

without all of the extra context:

kenny's E-1 included floo, salsabil, radical and uranus
uranus's E-1 included LQ, me, regrider/floo, StD

so that's 7 unique people, definitely worth keeping in mind

[cowsloveSushirolls]

my first impression of norwee is that i don't think they enter the thread openly suggesting that LQ is town if i just finished firmly planting a vote on them if they're scum? i'd think they'd be a bit more aware of the gamestate than what they've shown?
unless LQ and salswee are partners but i'm not going to entertain that

see if i get motivated enough to ISO salsa

[cowsloveSushirolls]

This post is largely IIoA. What do you mean people worth keeping in mind?

do you want me to dive into it? i have no idea how to except for very general things like "scum probably don't want to vote so closely to eachother"

teach me how? :pleading:

[cowsloveSushirolls]

for "What do you mean people worth keeping in mind?" i mean the implications that two E-1 wagons with completely unique people (except for floo) would bring, if that makes sense. i don't think anyone actually sticks out except for floo

i think they're similar enough in nature to start making guesses at certain

groups

that may or may not be there. that's more of what i'm thinking of

[cowsloveSushirolls]

Okay, that means very very little.

do you not believe in VCA?

Actually only of the E-1 wagons had poor reasoning.

are you sure about that?

@CLS, you do realize that Norweigh has been put at E-1 right?

lolwut? currently?

[cowsloveSushirolls]

Derp clear: denied.

cows: here is a list of all E-1 wagons
LQ: u missed one
cows: i wasn't aware of this wagon
LQ: you're not town from this....................

Cope

[cowsloveSushirolls]

Spoiler: first 2 E-1 wagons

Vote Count 1-5

Save The Dragons

:

floo

: , kennyk

Entellian

:

kennyk

: floo, Salsabil Faria,, Uranus

Uranus

: LicketyQuickety,

cowsloveSushirolls

:Entellian

Salsabil Faria

: Save The Dragons,

Radical Rat

:

LicketyQuickety

: cowsloveSushirolls, Radical Rat

Not Voting

(9):

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to eliminate.

Deadline: August 25th, 2021

Countdown: (expired on 2021-08-23 20:00:00)

Mod Notes:

LicketyQuickety replaces Catboi
Salsabil Faria is on V/LA till 19th August 2021
-

height of wagon: floo, salsa, radical, uranus (chronological order)

Vote Count 1-8

Save The Dragons

:

RegRider

: ,

astronomyfortwo

:

kennyk

: , Radical Rat

Uranus

: LicketyQuickety, cowsloveSushirolls, RegRider, Save The Dragons [E-1]

cowsloveSushirolls

:,

Salsabil Faria

: ,, Uranus, astronomyfortwo

Radical Rat

:

LicketyQuickety

: Salsabil Faria

Not Voting

(9): , kennyk

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to eliminate.

Deadline: August 27th, 2021

Countdown: (expired on 2021-08-27 20:00:00)

Mod Notes:

-

without all of the extra context:

kenny's E-1 included floo, salsabil, radical and uranus
uranus's E-1 included LQ, me, regrider/floo, StD
salsa's E-1 included uranus, astronomyfortwo, STD, LQ (

not included in spoilers:

)

EBWOP

[cowsloveSushirolls]

sure?

STD's erratic E-2 and E-1 voting suggests a lack of desire to keep up with their self image, meaning probtown when looking at votes alone
While the votes are between replacements so the evidence is less conclusive, floo fits a similar bill
kenny has refused to join any wagons that have ended at E-1. i find this a bit towny, since an individualistic(?) playstyle is one that's hard for scum to secure miscondemns with

if norwee agrees that you're town (which is all of the evidence i need tbh) and voting suggests that floo and STD are more often than not town, then uranus looks a lot worse knowing that all of the voters on them are

likely

town

are you feeling it?

[cowsloveSushirolls]

I personally think Kenny is town. Who was the last E-1 vote on them? That VC doesn’t tell.

wagon was floo, salsa, radical, uranus. radical unvoted a couple of posts before this vote count was recorded

[cowsloveSushirolls]

You voted Uranus very opportunistically. In my experience, Scum are more likely to Sheep me than Town and not by a little.

the entire uranus thing was an opportunistic wagon on an opportunistic person
it takes 5 to elim and there's only two scum, but 3 other opportunistic voters on that wagon that are on one opportunistic person makes four, so obv you're doing something wrong with your solving when you use opportunism as a blanket scumtell

[cowsloveSushirolls]

the entire uranus thing was an opportunistic wagon on an opportunistic person

What are you basing this on?

the reasons regrider voted are extremely similar to why i and STD voted: because of post 545

[cowsloveSushirolls]

Oh wait. I forgot if you can sense sarcasm.

That was sarcasm brw.

what was sarcasm? hopefully not the reading LQ thing, my read on them is basically contingent on what you say because again, nobody else seems to want to touch them

[cowsloveSushirolls]

salsa is a bit townier than i remember, i will sleep on that thought and come back with more information

What did you base this on?

to be honest i don't remember, but i know that at the earlier stages of the game i was mostly skimming through everybody's arguments with kenny so it must've been largely tone based

[cowsloveSushirolls]

I’ve got more things to say, but i’ll do it after waking up properly.

alright, good luck

gonna dip from thread and go to sleep

No, I said sheeping me more often comes from Scum. Plus (I'd have to look at the votes at the time) but that was an E-2 vote, which is a pretty pivotal vote IME.

for the most part this makes sense but i think i find the sheeping is more important/AI. i'm unsure how vote position plays into reg being mafia

[cowsloveSushirolls]

good morning

Trying to think about whether Uranus, who comes from largely role madness is more likely to claim VT as Scum here...

uranus, what's your opinion on this setup and how good are you at fakeclaiming power roles as mafia/3p?

(i have an opinion on this but an answer first = good)

[cowsloveSushirolls]

Then you have CLS who is voting whatever flavor of weed they feel like smoking today.

my POE right now is kenny/uranus/astronomy/reg
you can swap kenny and norwee around, but i like the circumstances of norwee's replacement (803) enough that i wouldn't vote them today
still haven't ISOed salsa yet, though

[cowsloveSushirolls]

Can you vote Uranus then?

[cowsloveSushirolls]

What does this mean?

cat stare

[cowsloveSushirolls]

oh wait, according to the latest VC uranus is not a tied wagon with salsa which was what i initally thought

VOTE: Uranus

TENSION

i had a blanket "do not vote uranus/astronomy/reg today" because of the lack of information it brought upon a blue flip which is exactly what we don't want on a d1 vote, but i'm feeling this one sets the stage really well regardless because of all of the voting surrounding them

also, uranus blue = my POE entirely wrong? i'll be looking for pairs tonight

[cowsloveSushirolls]

yes. apologies for not mentioning that

[cowsloveSushirolls]

pressure solving woooooooo!
i'll dive into it pretty soon

[cowsloveSushirolls]

reg, what exactly did you like about 545? i think you tried to answer this in 945 but i don't see any of your writing

[cowsloveSushirolls]

VOTE: aft

this an astronomy vote?

[cowsloveSushirolls]

oh wait lol, i was thinking that you mispelled ast but it was really just the abbreviated version of their name

i'm not feeling this one today, gang

[cowsloveSushirolls]

yes, it was e-1

narrator voice: it was not e-1

[cowsloveSushirolls]

[cowsloveSushirolls]

oh, probably true

[cowsloveSushirolls]

ast is a terrible vote no matter how scummy they are

also, probably won't be here at deadline since it'll be around 6:00 AM where i am

[cowsloveSushirolls]

ast is a terrible vote no matter how scummy they are

elaborating: despite them being in my POE i think they have the highest chance of flipping blue. their low amount of logs from both people in that solve (entell and them) means that their flip gives an incredibly low amount of information other than the wagon that kills them.

ok salsa ISO time

Spoiler: the ISO of salsa, the salsa iso.

Hi

floo

, long time no see

VOTE: A to Z

A town can't know A to Z

i found this opening post to be pretty awkward, like they really wanted to vote A2Z and wanted to form a reason

after

that fact. scummy? if you read way into it, probably

That answer doesn't satisfy me in the least. I thought that maybe you didn't vote because you were town and didn't want to make a random accusation. Or you were a diamond thief and didn't want to be suspicious because of random voting.

But now you tell us you were to tired to do a simple rng. But posting was ok as was doing the rng one and a half hours later. And to top it of your 'randomness' casts the second vote on someone. All in all that seems highly suspicous in my eyes.

And as it is day 1 and we as town do not have any information at all (except maybe those with power rolls having informations concerning the general setup) this little bit is enough for me to undo my random vote.

UNVOTE: floo
VOTE: Uranus

And as I just read in Radical Rats posts while watching the preview to this post: As far as I read in the wiki and was usual in the days long gone by random voting to get things started on day one is quite common. Voting (or not voting) for someone because of his avatar is even more sus in my opinion. For me it seems as Radical Rat is trying to be helpful to Uranus (allthough I just asked a question). So I see a slight connection between those two.

Too solvy (it's not a correct word, don't know the correct word) to be town.....

UNVOTE: A to Z

VOTE: kennyk

later clarified as "LAMIST-y" (which is still a bad word) which is think is pretty solid grounds for a vote on kenny

But serious: the more I think about floo, the more I dislike his posts. His first post (a vote with no further explanation) could have been a revenge for me rng-voting on him. Although at that time I already changed my vote to Uranus. Asked why he voted me, he just gave us the smiley. That is not much information. And only one faction likes the information to stay hidden: mafia.

There is nothing wrong with no explanation for my first vote. I randomly voted you because you were the person who had most recently posted. What was I supposed to do, make a joke about your username? I find it suspicious that you are trying to find secret motives for RVS votes. The smiley should have been enough to figure my vote was random.

And here I thought you also saw the LAMIST play thus voted them No mind melding for us

tone-read this one as a pretty towny post to make. i don't really find scum making this post, but i can't exactly pinpoint why. is it because it's directly related to townreading someone, because mindmelds with someone will result in that? or is it just that i like the small bit of irony that is sorting people's slots really early into the game while voting people for doing that

I think she says kennyk is trying too hard, missing the obvious motive as I pointed out for a scum accusation. It's good that someone is trying to be serious because this is how we move out of RVS, but kennyk is doing this wrong. She may also be accusing kennyk of doing that just to look town. I recall that the term LAMIST is used here for this.

Perfectly explained but I want to add one thing: they said they had an account here before, so they played before here imo. That's why I'm not taking them that much of a newb player and when I read their posts ("

this sus, that sus

"), I found they were trying

too much

which I generally find suspicious.

salsa likely isn't partnered with kenny if they are unaware of how many games they have played (kenny has later confirmed that they have played two games many years back. salsa calls them "very experienced" when they're on par with someone like me)

I think she says kennyk is trying too hard, missing the obvious motive as I pointed out for a scum accusation. It's good that someone is trying to be serious because this is how we move out of RVS, but kennyk is doing this wrong. She may also be accusing kennyk of doing that just to look town. I recall that the term LAMIST is used here for this.

what's the best way to move us outside of RVS, if the way kenny is doing it is "wrong"? is it just because the pushing happened to be on you because he thought your thought process was unclear? what happened in this game seems like just as good of a method as any, which is why i'm asking

I find

LAMIST play

scummy in general basis.
Almost every town games of mine, there was at least one scum

who appeared to be solvy in the early stage of the game

to gain towncred and in my scum games, I also tried to get towncred at RVS stage.

vote is backed up by meta: nobody prods into this, which is interesting

I think she says kennyk is trying too hard, missing the obvious motive as I pointed out for a scum accusation. It's good that someone is trying to be serious because this is how we move out of RVS, but kennyk is doing this wrong. She may also be accusing kennyk of doing that just to look town. I recall that the term LAMIST is used here for this.

what's the best way to move us outside of RVS, if the way kenny is doing it is "wrong"? is it just because the pushing happened to be on you because he thought your thought process was unclear? what happened in this game seems like just as good of a method as any, which is why i'm asking

I find

LAMIST play

scummy in general basis.
Almost every town games of mine, there was at least one scum

who appeared to be solvy in the early stage of the game

to gain towncred and in my scum games, I also tried to get towncred at RVS stage.

that's true, it's probably easiest to get credit in RVS since it's all just making good first impressions

i wanted to see if "there was at least one scum who appeared to be solvy in the early stage of the game" applied to my first game here and uh, we talked about sandwiches for around 100 posts
the person who DID try to solve around the end of those 100 posts was town, though. i am thinking that it's easier to look townier when you blend in with the townies instead of trying to lead and ask questions early, so i like kennyk for this also

Hmm... fair enough

takes my pro-kenny words into consideration, which we actually do see in later posts of hers

@ Salsabil Faria: So you think players who are sus on something are sus. Doesn't that make you sus, too?

I don't like when people misinterpret my words...

VOTE: kennyk

softing vigilante: instant town

But serious: the more I think about floo, the more I dislike his posts. His first post (a vote with no further explanation) could have been a revenge for me rng-voting on him. Although at that time I already changed my vote to Uranus. Asked why he voted me, he just gave us the smiley. That is not much information. And only one faction likes the information to stay hidden: mafia.

There is nothing wrong with no explanation for my first vote. I randomly voted you because you were the person who had most recently posted. What was I supposed to do, make a joke about your username? I find it suspicious that you are trying to find secret motives for RVS votes. The smiley should have been enough to figure my vote was random.

And here I thought you also saw the LAMIST play thus voted them No mind melding for us

i like this post: to be honest i was thinking that some of your earlier posts were awkward

Don't get it

for example, this post:

No one is asking me but I have been playing forum mafia only...

Is the color I'm using suitable for you?

nobody asked me either but i just told them my experience with mafia. it looked weird to me when you said that, since i entered the conversation without any problems

Was trying to be cool

awkwardposting = ?? i know that in the last game i played with her, i didn't get this sort of vibe at all which does make me feel iffy

I think she says kennyk is trying too hard, missing the obvious motive as I pointed out for a scum accusation. It's good that someone is trying to be serious because this is how we move out of RVS, but kennyk is doing this wrong. She may also be accusing kennyk of doing that just to look town. I recall that the term LAMIST is used here for this.

Perfectly explained but I want to add one thing: they said they had an account here before, so they played before here imo. That's why I'm not taking them that much of a newb player and when I read their posts ("

this sus, that sus

"), I found they were trying

too much

which I generally find suspicious.

See, I get where you're coming from here, but having actually read some of the very old games here, his play is really not all that uncharacteristic for how people used to play here. I think the way he's playing makes at least a degree of reasonable sense so far and feels less like scum trying to manufacture an accusation and more like town trying to spur things on early.

I know I vote them 3 times already ( ) but I'm keeping an open mind. Still catching up, so let's see what happened next.

+++

catboi, what does your scum game look like?

Not like this.

This response pings me....

something else nobody mentioned but it was something that i was thinking too. it was as blatant as kenny's paranoia when asking for a prod too, which makes me go "hmmmm" a bit

@mod: Entellian didn't post for quite some time. Even with the one day timer stop a prodding might be due.

@all other players: No, I didn't ask for a prodding because I miss my fellow mafia player. And no, this was no confession of being mafia. I would never confess that. Or maybe i would in some crazy setup or as part of a really crazy plan in some situations.

What is this!!!! Now you're deliberately playing scummy af!

reasonable reaction

On the other hand I was internally debating if I even should ask for the prod or not because it would look like a link between Entellian and me. I even thought about PMing the prod request to our beloved mod to not getting unwanted attention in this matter.

Honestly I wrote the @all-part just to answer a few questions that I saw coming my way anyway after the first part of that post.

Asking for prod to anyone is NAI stuff, don't understand why you

think

people will ask questions about it....

when looking at everything as a whole this adds fuel to the "kenny and salsa aren't paired" fire but i've realized that it wasn't really there in the firstt place because you know, salsa was pushing them for a while. wasted words ehehe

i'm pretty satisfied with this explanation, thanks

to elaborate on this: i was hoping for an answer that was something along the lines of "your vote doesn't help town", and i got just that, along with a pretty reasonable train of thought behind it

Can you explain more? How do you think

expressing paranoia

over NAI stuff without even getting pressure is coming from town mindset? The more I'm reading them, more I find them scummy but on the same time their wagon isn’t having that much of resistance I'm thinking scum!them would have atp which is giving me 2nd thoughts....

UNVOTE: kenny

lays off their read of kenny because of people that they trust having a different read than them. generally a Good move i think but i have no idea what i'm doing and somehow they are in my POE again

it was at the cost of a bit of discussion from me but i think kenny vs floo looks a lot more towny from both sides than kenny vs radical/uranus

What do you find to townread

floo

? I don’t still find any post from them after they said why they vote

kenny

....

calls out my wacky read on floo. leaning this as a towny move since it forced me to develop my reasoning

how does a game end in 5 pages lol?

Unless it was hella inactive then they somehow knocked off all the mafia then Its highly unlikely

I almost want to take Uranus out of the PoE and put Salsa in for this.

VOTE: LQ

Is the motivation enough for you now?
Btw, what is the link between me in your POE and this post?

the start of their weird, performative posting where they attempt to convince people to think of her as scummier. NAI? i'm assuming that as scum, it's some sort of ploy to take attention away from the power mafia role, but that's assuming that there is one

I was ISOing Salsa, and found some posts that pinged me:

[snip]

Am I going crazy or is there something here?

Again, nothing makes sense to me except one thing: YOU ARE CRAZY....

rofl. not sure if this falls in line with what they were doing at 282. +scumpoints for not asking any questions about something they don't understand?

I've seen enough. I feel like Salsa is in Anti-Spew mode now.

VOTE: Salsa

OMGUS much

why not question that you're in anti-spew mode? i think this is an odd reaction to a vote on you, since it obviously isn't OMGUS unless i'm interpreting this wrong

i think kennyk is town

Can you explain?

it's a lot of a gut read just based on how he posts, he seems like town that scum can easily push for an easy mislim.

Yeah, I agree about the easy push now.

you were one of the ones pushing him tho

I know, duh! And they are still scummy, I'm just not sure if they're scum scummy or town scummy. I still can't read them...

acknowledges that they don't know how to read kenny: falls in line with them using others to come up with a conclusion on them
--

Can you explain more? How do you think expressing paranoia
over NAI stuff without even getting pressure is coming from town mindset? The more I'm reading them, more I find them scummy but on the same time their wagon isn’t having that much of resistance I'm thinking scum!them would have atp which is giving me 2nd thoughts....

what kenny did was undoubtedly odd. i do not think it comes from a town mindset

only

though.
i think that what he did is something both town and mafia can do.
i pushed a little bit on something that i thought could actually be scummy (him defending floo despite voting them) and made it related to him being defensive about his prod, and he gave good answers to both
(i think that if mafia is forced to answer a lot of things at once, they'll struggle a bit, but his post felt natural, so i think he is town right now)

Can you mention the post where they defend

floo

please?

I guess he meant this post (quote shortened for a better reading experience concerning this question), which was more like a general thing that a defence:

cowsloveSushirolls please don't do an E-2 vote just for moo > floo. You need to have another motive to give someone a third vote.

But it’s not the

defend

defend!

i didn't really like that they were waiting for somebody else to do the pushing. to me, it feels less like "CLSR said something very convincing" and more like "CLSR seems ready to push a townie, let's help them" and then when they seem to pay not that much attention to what kennyk has been saying (i think everything he's saying is towny enough) i do not see their towny intentions

it's a bit tongue-in-cheek: in my first game someone basically called me 'cringe' and scumread me off of it, and they flipped town. my vote was a random vote so it needed to get off at some point

I don't remember this thing happened in the same way you're describing here.

Can you explain more? How do you think expressing paranoia
over NAI stuff without even getting pressure is coming from town mindset? The more I'm reading them, more I find them scummy but on the same time their wagon isn’t having that much of resistance I'm thinking scum!them would have atp which is giving me 2nd thoughts....

what kenny did was undoubtedly odd. i do not think it comes from a town mindset

only

though.
i think that what he did is something both town and mafia can do.
i pushed a little bit on something that i thought could actually be scummy (him defending floo despite voting them) and made it related to him being defensive about his prod, and he gave good answers to both
(i think that if mafia is forced to answer a lot of things at once, they'll struggle a bit, but his post felt natural, so i think he is town right now)

Can you mention the post where they defend

floo

please?

sure, that would be post 62

But that's not a defend

--all of these quotes are salsa being receptive to what's been happening with kenny. since i don't believe they're paired from earlier interactions. i find all of this town

I think Radical is probably for later

and yeah rn salsa isn't really looking good as his responses to the posts are pretty weak and he seem to be slipping up more than Radical.

VOTE: Salsa

Is it E-2 or 2 votes to elimination?

Wut??? What slip??? Other than copying people’s read, do you have any from your own?

this is where my eyebrows started raising. it took you this long to acknowledge that uranus had very little individual reads of their own?

VOTE: kennyk
Keeping this on E-2.

This is really bad.

Sure

i completely forgot the context to this one, however this comment is pretty cheeky when you basically have kenny at null. when i think about it though, the post was probably just to jab at LQ for being LQ

Again the misinterpretation! I sused you because you're playing LAMIST card, and I stated the reasons clearly, go check again.
I can also say you're tunneling me because I was tunneling you, but I'll not say that, because I'm not YOU!

It is true that you sussed me because you thought (and still think, I guess) I was playing the LAMIST card. But as you explained in the following post you came to this conclusion because I was sussing others.

I think she says kennyk is trying too hard, missing the obvious motive as I pointed out for a scum accusation. It's good that someone is trying to be serious because this is how we move out of RVS, but kennyk is doing this wrong. She may also be accusing kennyk of doing that just to look town. I recall that the term LAMIST is used here for this.

Perfectly explained but I want to add one thing: they said they had an account here before, so they played before here imo. That's why I'm not taking them that much of a newb player and when I read their posts ("

this sus, that sus

"), I found they were trying

too much

which I generally find suspicious.

I am definitely not tunneling you because of you tunneling me. I might have had different views on things but that's about to happen in a game of mafia. It took quite some time to get you on my personal scum list (as you might see in my readlist in post 235).

Either you're high or my English is bad (not sorry for this particular reason because English isn’t my native language)....

For the last time, I'm explaining & correcting your misinterpreted thoughts about my reason to scumread you. After that, if I see you're doing this again, that'll be a scum claim to me and I'll vote you without asking or correcting you!

I said, I think you're playing LAMIST card (which I generally find more scummy than townie, mentioned the reason also) by jumping out from the RVS stage by appearing

solvy

. And what did you exactly do which made me think it was

too

solvy (a.k.a scummy, mentioned the reason already why I think like that) atp? The answer is: you were doing

I find this sus, thus you're sus; I find that sus, so you're sus

.... That's what I meant when I wrote (

this sus, that sus

) phrase. Therefore, I wasn’t scumreading you because you were susing others, I was scumreading you because

you appeared to be solvy at the RVS stage of the game for getting towncred and it worked for scum!you perfectly because not only you're already in the townblock of some players read-list, my read on you is kept flip-floping because of that (mentioned this too), I'm
your counter wagon now and most probably get eliminated today (which will be fine for town but not for scum!you ).

So my points to scumread you aren't totally off or too good to be true as scum!you are getting the towncred you need and as multiple people defending you, it'll be not easy (may or may not) to find your partner based on that.

semantics
semantics that show salsa's conviction and lack of hedge when confronting kenny >:}

I am definitely not tunneling you because of you tunneling me. I might have had different views on things but that's about to happen in a game of mafia. It took quite some time to get you on my personal scum list (as you might see in my readlist in post 235).

And I didn’t say you're tunneling me, I said

I can say that you're tunneling me but I'm not gonna saying it

! I'm going with you over and over again for trying to sort you because I still can't read you with confidence thus sheeping others I think are towns atm. On the other hand, it seems to me that you make up your mind about me already and turned into a wall.

Btw, speaking of read-list, I forgot to share mine, adding it here....

Read-list

Townread:

STD

,

Radical

Townlean:

clSr

,

Uranus

Null:

kenny

Scumlean:

floo

/

Entel

Scumread:

LQ

replacements at a scumlean doesn't feel that good

rr why do you trust salsa

Why do

you

not trust me?

cuz i just think you're scum here

Because I 3 times voted your

gut

townread? Don't you think it's also an interesting fact?
I'm disappointing with you actually atp If you can read

kenny

properly here out of the blue, then you should read me accurately too, at least I accept that.

Btw, when I'll flip green, will you still townread

kenny

? I want to know your thoughts after my flip basically...

another post to lump in the category of "salsa wants to die"
it FEELS like something that should be NAI but i overwhelmingly see this from town in my homesite. do i share the same mentality here?

Yes, I agree with you on this but my experience here is holding me back tbh. A wagon which is formatting without strong resistance (specially on Day 1) has much more chance to flip as town rather than scum fmpov + they also are an old player. Even if I think

Entel

is their scum partner, hence no other wagon is formed and no resistance is formatting at the current wagon, as an experienced one, scum!

kenny

could be play the whole thing differently imo.

I didn't respond to this earlier because I expected you to see the resistance when you finished catching up, but it looks like you still believe it, so... How do you consider this no resistance? From my perspective, it felt like we were getting close to a consensus scumread, then hit a brick wall as blatant scumposting ended up being townread somehow.

been chewing on this quote for a while

is this town frustration?

I think it is.

I just think Salsa's case on Kenny is a fabricated Scum case on someone they know is Town. :shrug:

@Towns

, after my flip, eliminate them before they can even post in the thread. From what I notice in this game, their manipulation power is strong.

PoE:

Uranus
CLS
Radical Rat

Null:

floo
Entellian
Salsa

How can you put

clSr

and

Radical

both in the POE where you think (I'm assuming it)

clSr

is tunneling

Radical

?

That is shade on me considering that's not what I was saying at all.

Asking a question is not a shade, I could shade you without asking anything. Your defensive response here gets another scum point.

does it

Yes, because I can see a world where you and CLS are Scum here. Hence it would be a post to make me look bad... Not like you could have predicted that I would make that post, but, meh. I feel like there would be reason to SR me based on me admitting I see where you thought I was buddying you when I wasn't, but I digress.

in the scenario of CLSR vs STD i'm probably doing all of the pairing with posts like 102 and 204, with STD passively registering them in their mind until asked for reads: 103 ||203, 206
are you sure that we are paired? i'm feeling more of a S v T
it won't mean anything in the grand scheme of things but salsa random voted dragon's slot
i'll order my readslist while i'm at it:

town:
kennyk
uranus
floo
LQ/catboi
--
null
STD
entellian
--
mafia:
salsabil
radical

I didn’t vote

STD

, they voted me, but it wasn’t random.

Your read-list on the other hand is very interesting...

What is interesting about their RL?

Match with

STD

's...

context: salsa scumread STD at the time. i think i was at a townlean. still solving me besides having me as a townlean is always good

By keeping in mind our last game together, you shouldn’t be townread me ig??

i didn't see this before, but
why not?

Because I turn my playstyle 180 degrees again! Did you forget?

I said, I think you're playing LAMIST card (which I generally find more scummy than townie, mentioned the reason also) by jumping out from the RVS stage by appearing solvy.

Unless you can explain a tone read with this, I generally give Townie points for a player getting us out of RVS. You seem to have the opposite logic than I do.

Why do you think I have to have the same logic as yours? Do I know you?

You don't have to have the same logic as me, but I'm giving my read based on my experience and I've played over 100 games (tho some people have played a lot more games than I have).

Lol! I can see your joining date, it’s pretty visible...

Alright, so, here's my problem.

A prod post is, usually, profoundly NAI. If anything, it might just BARELY lean Town, because Mafia benefits from Town lurking, and are thus less likely to bring it up, but it usually isn't that deep.

This particular kind of overthinking though I believe is vastly more likely to come from scum than town. I don't really see a Townie being afraid that trying to prod a lurker would look scummy, and if they did I don't see them making a big show about it, probably, but not necessarily, just PMing it instead.

However, by your own admission, you did it publicly hoping to gain towncred off it, but then got too paranoid about it backfiring that you wound up overexplaining yourself. That's scum logic if ya ask me.

Yes, I agree with you on this but my experience here is holding me back tbh. A wagon which is formatting without strong resistance (specially on Day 1) has much more chance to flip as town rather than scum fmpov + they also are an old player. Even if I think

Entel

is their scum partner, hence no other wagon is formed and no resistance is formatting at the current wagon, as an experienced one, scum!

kenny

could be play the whole thing differently imo.

Entel probably Town on a Salsa Scum flip.

Who left to be my scum partner then?
Ans:

LQ

or

floo

As I was reading through LQs posts I thought if he continued like this he would eliminate everyone from being your scum partner except himself. That made me grin, too.

O MY GOD!!! We're finally agreeing on something
Jokes apart, after seeing my flip, please consider my read on

LQ

--- this is for all the townies.

Because I turn my playstyle 180 degrees again! Did you forget?

that just means you're a flexible player and that i should read you in other ways

My secret got revealed

Spoiler: Not Game Related

I got a promotion at my new job a couple of days ago

Salsa seems to be particullary hard on kenny and lickety, even voting lq for a pretty dumb reason. She could be acting weird also to drag the game out longer. That is my answer to rad's question.

Define

pretty dumb reason

and also tell me what would be an intellectual reason to you...

Kenny, what tells you I wasn't posting like I knew you were Town compared to the other person?

But beware some weird person might think you just asked me this question to hide our mafia bond.

nice, floo really was town

Not that I have anything substantial to disagree with you in this aspect. But why are you so sure?

reads arent necessarily agreeable, but regrider comes off as natural enough for me to sully floo's name. so why do i think floo leans town?

floo's approach to the game was strictly anti-scum

i am not versed in mafia theory at all, but what i'm feeling is scum really wants to do these two things:
-act like town
-secure miselims

you can't tell me with a straight face that floo did either of those things with their introduction. ergo, 'anti-scum'

The wording of CLSs post on the other hand sounds very much like a matter of fact. It could as well have been a post after a flip. And I don't see how it is a nearly 100 % thing floo was / RegRider is town.

now that i've explained why, do you find my interpretation of reg and floo's posts agreeable?

I will give you a straight 'no' as my answer.

First, your townread on floo is something I don't get. You said he didn't act like town and didn't secure a miselim. And because he didn't do those things scum does he is town. Apart from the fact that scum and town like to act like town I have problems with your logic. To the point he left he had six posts. His first three being a vote (on me), a smiley and a 'guess again'. Then two posts of accusing me to be to solvy (maybe hopping on a train Salsa started?) and finishing with one where he asked me how I felt about his post. All in all that's not much to go by in concern of seeing an approach there. He might have even tried to secure my miselim with him accusing me of being to solvy.

So a townread on floo for me is no option. I could live with a nul-read (which I myself posted when asked about reads).

On the other hand I guess there is not much of an interpretation of regs posts in your post. I agree that they look natural. But they are in no way confirming that floo was town.

From your explanation to me, it seemed you townread the

floo

slot with a loads of stretching logic but here you're saying you nullread them and questioning

clSr

which I also want to know their thought process but.... if you can townread someone in one post by giving logic based on their

not wanting/interested to play the game thus town because if was scum, then they could have interest as they were on a good position

and are questioning another's thought process by saying

you can't townread them because from their 6 posts aren’t enough, that's why they’re my nullread

where you change your read in the next post according to this topic is a CONTRADICTION on another level!

The wording of CLSs post on the other hand sounds very much like a matter of fact. It could as well have been a post after a flip. And I don't see how it is a nearly 100 % thing floo was / RegRider is town.

now that i've explained why, do you find my interpretation of reg and floo's posts agreeable?

I still don’t understand, they had 6 posts only, how do you come up with this conclusion from that I can't follow.

i tried to explain it a little more in 502

Yes, I saw that later but not so confident enough to townread them yet, let's see what their replacement do...

will i find a good person to vote by deadline?

only time will tell................

You can vote me, I'm pretty famous

noooo!
what if you

self hammer so that the replacements can't give reads

Hammer is always tempting for me no matter what alignment I'm in

will i find a good person to vote by deadline?

only time will tell................

You can vote me, I'm pretty famous

I'm here and just see the VC. I'm still recovering, don't have energy for catching up yet. Are we agreeing to eliminate

Uranus

here? If so then I'll hammer right away. If not then I've to catch up which I don’t want to atm...

verdict: town in a vacuum, using a bit of meta i'm not as confident. paranoia read says that salsa is playing too 'calculated' but they do look better upon a uranus green flip, in my opinion

also, a LOT of quotes without commentary, sorry. it's 3:00 in the morning and staying up any later =very bad. they're handpicked so you can decipher SOME sort of meaning from them until i can expand on them later

maybe i do actually stay up late to make sure a no lim doesn't happen, but that's caring about the game too much huehuehue
i trust that hammer happens on the person i want it to happen on

[cowsloveSushirolls]

flip green? the color of town, im not thinking of anything in particular

[cowsloveSushirolls]

VOTE: Uranus

[cowsloveSushirolls]

originally you weren't, but now you are for ruining the chain

[cowsloveSushirolls]

but to be honest, i don't know. probably depends on how votes after a deadline are counted

can we get a readslist?

[cowsloveSushirolls]

Fully forgot about this game!! don't sign up for multiple mafia games at once, it's highly regrettable. Gonna read what I've missed

I saw you online on this site about 10 hours earlier but you didn’t post here.

gonna do anything w this?

am at school, but I'll talk a bit more about the NK in like, 4 hours

[cowsloveSushirolls]

someone tell me why we shouldnt sleep again to maintain odd parity

[cowsloveSushirolls]

killing someone is our only way to get rid of scum

what about peer pressure modkilling

i honestly think that we're going to sleep down the line because odds>evens so I'd do it as early as possible ykyk

[cowsloveSushirolls]

no not EARLY EARLY i mean d2 instead of d3 and beyond

[cowsloveSushirolls]

cows town radical clown
bottom text

[cowsloveSushirolls]

cows town radical clown
bottom text

Well shit, can't argue with that.

you can, u just don't wanna look like you're flailing because i found your job application for the circus :^)

damnit

In all seriousness though, in all the games you've played/read, how many times has no limming actually been helpful outside of MeLo?

i think it's low risk low reward since scum are more inclined to kill in non-melo situations instead of playing incredibly lame
the reward being odds vs evens and whatever PR fuckery that gets thrown at the mafia

i'm fine with dropping this entirely if scum promises to kill when we sleep in melo

[cowsloveSushirolls]

damn i just keep stacking these pgaetops bro

[cowsloveSushirolls]

bussing astronomy before they've had a chance to spew is no bueno

[cowsloveSushirolls]

^ this is exactly what i needed as a rebuttal, i feel like dropping what i was thinking now
i don't think me and radical are on the same page here. isn't an f4 with all VTs a few times better than an F3, at least statistically?

[cowsloveSushirolls]

one of the things that was on my mind when reg died was "hah, we're not in column C' but there's a lot more to that lolol

pedit: f as in final. final 3 vs final 4

[cowsloveSushirolls]

I am friendly neighbor

dear god.............

[cowsloveSushirolls]

sure?

STD's erratic E-2 and E-1 voting suggests a lack of desire to keep up with their self image, meaning probtown when looking at votes alone
While the votes are between replacements so the evidence is less conclusive, floo fits a similar bill
kenny has refused to join any wagons that have ended at E-1. i find this a bit towny, since an individualistic(?) playstyle is one that's hard for scum to secure miscondemns with

if norwee agrees that you're town (which is all of the evidence i need tbh) and voting suggests that floo and STD are more often than not town, then uranus looks a lot worse knowing that all of the voters on them are

likely

town

are you feeling it?

so if i were to do some level .5 NKA here

regrider green implies

STD

green

due to similar behaviors and tangible evidence that it is NAI at best
regrider nightkill implies

uranus

green

because the kill was against what they were trying to do (get votes onto reg, which i honestly think was an attainable goal)

scum feeling no pressure to kill high content slots like radical, LQ (to an extent...) raises some eyebrows. are there any objections to me starting there

[cowsloveSushirolls]

shrug now that i think about it a bit it{s probably just scums belief in the 66% chance of a protective that prevented them from making high profile kills

[cowsloveSushirolls]

This is such an astronomically bad take, especially considering you've supposedly read like the entire Newbie archive.

unrelated note but i have read up to exactly newbie 53, enough to see some early STD but just missing kenny´s games by a couple of hairs

[cowsloveSushirolls]

i'm trying to find out more from the regrider flip because i'm getting a strikingly strong feeling not everyone is being genuine with the 'hurrdurr low info flip' schtick

[cowsloveSushirolls]

No, that's lvl -1.

y

[cowsloveSushirolls]

No, that's lvl -1.

y

Because they might have been trying to force a claim.

looking at reg's later logs, do you think that scum!uranus got what they wanted?

[cowsloveSushirolls]

No, that's lvl -1.

y

not to mention that there's a chance that the reg NK would give out the message upon further examination 'hey, someone that we now know as town wanted uranus pretty bad and piggybacked off of LQ's awesome reasoning, that's two pure town right there with a hard scum' which i thought was a good argument at first but with scum touching it now i'm unsure which way to lean

but then again, the feeling should not be there because nobody has even tried to solve further with reg's flip, so what am i even doing
--
unrelated note

I'm here and just see the VC. I'm still recovering, don't have energy for catching up yet. Are we agreeing to eliminate

Uranus

here? If so then I'll hammer right away. If not then I've to catch up which I don’t want to atm...

this still makes me grimace

[cowsloveSushirolls]

right, i get your drift, but i think that if uranus has scum equity then it is not for that, because i think he had two better options than to vote reg there:

- stick with the vote on salswee, the wagon that had about the same amount of traction as uranus's.
- attempt to try their hand at the new and shiny astronomy wagon that was forming: the suspicion was there, they just had to case them well

in fact, there was a HUGE opportunity to get salswee to claim: they were at E-1 for a short period of time, iirc
i don't think uranus is trying to rolefish with their actions here
--

imo, the reg scumcase was not Good. after all, they sussed them for something that they had done. multiple times, in fact (both of them sheep cases on people)

I also see that I am at e-1. Wouldn't it be better for mafia to pluck off a townie claim? Otherwise then if what I have said doesn't change your minds, then I'm fine with being voted

they did case reg to see if they could persuade others to follow, but if uranus is scum i'm feeling that it was not to push any agenda, and so right now i'm saying "LQ, look elsewhere"
my thinking is that they just wanted to mimic their town logic as scum. (i listed the better wagon options they had above)

but, the fact that reg was nightkilled after this throws a very large rock at my thinking. why make a confident case on someone, then confirm their alignment by nightkilling them?

-------

so, tinfoil scenarios. if uranus is scum:
he cased regrider for reasons that are impossible to understand.
-they are exactly partners with norwee (gets more unlikely the more i look at it: i need to revisit the end of d1) or astronomy for deflecting onto reg and not their wagons

but in my opinion, most likely scenario is:
uranus is scum. by acting as genuine as they could, they survived d1 despite being the majority wagon.
scum predicts that he is extremely likely to flip after d1, which would spew reg as town. pre-emptive kill? who would think like this?
i still think this is pretty farfetched

[cowsloveSushirolls]

last post before i go to bed

regrider green implies STD green due to similar behaviors and tangible evidence that it is NAI at best
regrider nightkill implies uranus green because the kill was against what they were trying to do (get votes onto reg, which i honestly think was an attainable goal)

coincidentally i have a solid foundation for these two as town that i suddenly dropped off in favor of that e'1 wagon full of people that i thought looked townier
currently,
i think STD/uranus/LQ are town
kenny is tentative town, astro i don't wanna look at, so i have this pool:

VOTE: Radical Rat
VOTE: NorwegianboyEE
my intention is not to minimize the interesting wagon that is astro's but i see no other way to express my discomfort with both of these people very performatively

[cowsloveSushirolls]

Why me Cow?

last last post

to be completely honest, it's 70% POE which is lame townplay but both of you people left good first impressions on me and i'm beginning to see the shine go away in favor of everyone else
small reasoning for ending my vote with you over rat: i've aired my grievances with salsa's logs a bit, and i find your justifications for reads kinda lackluster despite you having around 100 posts. i think seeing more concentrated posts would help me understand you a bit more, i'm unsure what your stances are right now

[cowsloveSushirolls]

1039 was a joke

i searched for the exact same things kenny did, got nothing, and made other scenarios on why the regrider kill happened. post 1039 was not one of them

[cowsloveSushirolls]

I can find absolutely no justification for a townie to fake a quote. To be honest it is hard for me to believe that scum would do such an easily provable thing, but as sometimes is stated "scum gets away with so many things it normaly shoouldn't be" it has to be a scum move.

if i'm using fabricated posts to further my scum agenda, then i've already lost the game

Also, as an aside, when I saw CLS say Uranus was hammered, I went back to bed because I thought it was settled. When I got back to the thread I saw that Uranus wasn't actually hammered and I was quite annoyed by that.

lol, sorry.

That's what I meant. There is absolutely nothing gained by the info that person X was targeted by the friendly neighbor. Anybody can freely claim "I got the message RegRider is the FN". This reveales nothing. We know that Reg was FN and he could have targeted scum or townie (most likely a person he thought was town) without him knowing which alignment his target had.

'person that we now know as town targeted this person because they thought they were town enough to trust" i think can end up being pretty impactful.
right now, i think that they

shouldn't

out the FN message, because if we asked everyone to out that and nobody budged, it'd imply the existence of a jailkeeper. i'd rather not talk about the visit at all

Both Norweigh and CLS are defending Uranus for IDK what reason. CLS isn't even addressing my case on them. My point was NOT that Uranus was rolefishing (after looking at the data) but that they were trying to get a Reg wagon going based on Sheeping me. Sheeping me is something Scum like to do.

neat, i answered that point too. uranus had two other wagons to choose from, so choosing to sheep you makes absolutely no sense as mafia despite what the statistics say

[cowsloveSushirolls]

Spoiler:

i forced uranus to E-1 to unpair myself with him in an insane bout of WIFOM, mostly because i thought it would be funny. the towny reasons for it i figured out later

Here you state you forced Uranus to E-1 while in another you claim you didn't do anything wrong because you were just the guy putting him on E-3. And letting him dangle in E-1 just for fun is everything but fun.

Because it's opportunistic, which you admit... Seriously here? What are you smoking exactly?

i'm smoking that mason herb
spiritual town connections

Why using the word mason in this post? You denying secret hints later, but why giving this kind of fake claim (as we are now sure of after Regs flip)? As I stated fake claiming as town would be bad.

good morning

Trying to think about whether Uranus, who comes from largely role madness is more likely to claim VT as Scum here...

uranus, what's your opinion on this setup and how good are you at fakeclaiming power roles as mafia/3p?

(i have an opinion on this but an answer first = good)

Why this weird question? Should he answer with "yeah I am the king of fakeclaiming"?

someone tell me why we shouldnt sleep again to maintain odd parity

As seen by others this is so odd as a first substantial post after a nightkill.

^ this is exactly what i needed as a rebuttal, i feel like dropping what i was thinking now
i don't think me and radical are on the same page here. isn't an f4 with all VTs a few times better than an F3, at least statistically?

Even after some posts trying to get him on the right path this one totally ignores the fact that there are power roles.

1039 was a joke

i searched for the exact same things kenny did, got nothing, and made other scenarios on why the regrider kill happened. post 1039 was not one of them

As I said in my voting post: I can't see anything funny about the fake quote. And you definitely didn't search for the same things as I did. I searched for conclusions why Regs kill happened because of his (faked by you) unseen claim of being friendly neighbor.

All in all those posts for me show a tendency to at least play antitown. So even if my read is wrong I would be more than happy to get my vote through.

not what i said. i said, and i quote, "i put uranus at E-3. my hands are 100% clean." this was because you thought i actually put uranus at E-1 because of a wording error i've made, which you didn't like. basically, i said "i didn't do the crime, so look at who actually did"
also, you have some key evidence that putting people at E-1 does not matter in this game: uranus literally didn't get hammered on d1. what i did was not bad, and i'll continue to defend this
go and accuse me of deflecting, since that's something i actually did

i also did not deny secret hints: i gave my interpretation of what you were asking when talking about 'secret hints', i now see that you're blatantly rolefishing (this is post 712)

if uranus is a fakeclaiming champion, then he should go and say that. what's the problem with this again? if he isn't good at fakeclaiming, chances are he won't do it as scum.

using mechanics to read somebody feels really ???, and i'm unsure why you and STD are so intent on reading me with this. i'm able to perfectly replicate mechanics talk as both alignments, and i'm sure everyone else here can

i think you have to be willfully ignorant to push me or town to think that F4 has a chance of having the last power role. i'll do the math:
d1 - scum knows 2/9 roles. uranus and kenny claim VT. assume both town for below
n1 - scum knows 4/9 roles. intends on killing someone and rolecopping another
--hypothetical
d2 - scum knows 6/9 roles, 8 are alive. condemn a non-claimer (likely to happen, astro/norwee wagons happening today) for 7 alive and below statistic
n2 - scum knows 7/9 roles. 7 are alive. condemn a non claimer, check the other. the doctor has been singled out by then
d3 - scum knows 9/9 roles. 6 are alive. ergo, impossible for last PR to live until F4

and yes, i did search for the things you did. i went to floo's ISO, searched up "friendly" then "neighbor", got nothing from it, and made a joke about it before thinking of scenarios that explain why floo/regrider was killed. that's exactly what you did, minus the joke

i don't think this post is good. if the majority of your vote on me is policy (which you seem to hint at in the last line) then that's even worse. i quite literally am inches away from giving you the scum in a silver platter, stop stepping on my toes

[cowsloveSushirolls]

i{ll put in the time to solve tomorrow, promise