Newbie 1723 - Game Over!

[Dirty Harry2]

Scum-lean is still neutral. I don't really think it was alignment indicative, even though earth is SE. I personally do not think that overreaction is a scumtell. I'll have to check meta. earth, can you list me the 3 most recent games you've played?

The meaning of my "scum-lean" is not neutral.
Do you have a problem with my read labels are do you have a problem with me scum-leaning thenewearth's behaviour?

"I personally do not think that overreaction is a scumtell."
I did not say "overreaction is a scumtell" - I said I leaned scum on thenewearth's certain reaction/behaviour after evaluating.

"I'll have to check meta. earth, can you list me the 3 most recent games you've played?"
If you are asking this question you are in no position to shut down my scum-lean read/pressure of thenewearth.

[Dirty Harry2]

And Dirty Harry is town because he doesn't babble, gets to the point and is making sensible conclusions. Look at his ISO, you'll probably agree.

"doesn't babble, gets to the point"
Null on this.

"sensible".
This intrigued me.
It is strange only you see this.
Others have described my posts as "very neutral".
The votes also indicative they find them scummy/suspicious.
However, you find them "sensible conclusions" - which observations/reads of mine do you think are "sensible"?

[Dirty Harry2]

At least skold seems town

Please catch-up from page 1.
You have pending questions.
Then, finally explain your town read of Skold.

Stop this Franky it's very stupid.

I did not like this.
Pressure is pressure.
I do not sense town-paranoia in this "stop" mentality.
Did I misunderstand that post? Are you asking Franky to drop his logic/argument?

I did like your Nachomamma8 observation:

but all criticism seems to come from an IC perspective rather than a scumhunt perspective and even any scumhunting I've seen and doesn't have anything backing it up.

I would not describe Nachomamma8's play to the high degree of "Hella scummy" - but his 'safe' status is concerning.
Is Nachomamma8 actively trying to sort players and solve the game?
I want to see him get his hands dirty.
I think we deserve a catch-up from him.

[Dirty Harry2]

Harry you seem to have at least two people you aren't quite sure on - myself and Nacho. Why do you hold onto your vote?

Why I am not voting Skold:
I suspected you were talking from the perspective of knowing who is town. I wanted to observe further.

Why I am not voting Nacho:
Nacho needs to catch-up. His introduction was more game-theory related which is natural being the IC in early game.
Wanted to see Nacho in scum-hunting mode.

I actually really dig Franky's switch to e, timing and mindset-wise
I won't follow but I like it

skold your name seemed familiar to me
turns out you were in my newbie game
so ain't that cool

Because he is. It's not like not posting where he isn't posting, Nacho is posting frequently and doesn't say much.

I know what you mean and I also want followup from nacho but I don't actually think nacho is scum

the people who are active need to get on Nacho.

Can't get followup from nacho without wagoning him?

There's a few players in this game that seem surface-town but only on the surface, remind me to tell you them at some point
And that COULD be an indicator of people being scum, I think

Call this a dumb opinion, but I think a lot of people underestimate people's ability to play scum. Say someone does a thing and people say "oh hey, this this is obvious scum" but from my observation, it could just as easily be town that doesn't watch themselves than scum that lets something slip through the cracks.

I've found decent success with incorporating the idea that people that look town on the surface but in reality come from a scum mindset into the way i scumhunt. It think it helps with finding the scum that are less obvious, and there are some of those in most games, you know?

I like this meditation post from Errantparabola.
Shows signs of:
Open-mindedness
Paranoia

Wait wait wait, did Rb and Vecna just start a wagon on Harry for no apparent reason as their first action?

I read that behaviour as detached sheeping.
I expect them to move their vote once they catch up.

Problems with Skold:

1. Cutting off other people's lines of inquiry, even though he's simultaneously calling for more scumhunting from people. Putting people in a feedback loop doesn't help Town.
2. To his point on Nacho, he's not saying much. He's debating the finer points of other people's logic but I don't see him doing anything that would make him Town.
3. Says that we shouldn't have strong reads, calls Nacho hella scummy. I don't really buy his reasoning on why because I see a lot of IC's play that way.
4. Very quick to TR Dirty Harry after he gets 2 quick votes. Looking for towncred if he ends up lynched maybe?

UNVOTE: Dirty Harry

VOTE: Skold

rb expresses suspicions I shared - some suspicions I did not express openly too.
rb no longer null read.

Beeeh?

Mweèeeeeeehhehhehhehe^beeh.

Mebeheheh beaaahbaaaaaaaghr!

B-b-b-beeeeeeeh

Meehebeeehblabehbla

Vecna demonstrates he doesn't mind being Day 1 lynch bait.
Fascinating.

[Dirty Harry2]

Note 1: must look at both his scum and town meta of receiving early votes/pressure.
Note 2: thenewearth has been the most talked-about/scum-read player so far.

Did you do either of these things?

No.
I will hopefully address all notes by close of play.

I'm not asking for "pressuring and calling for deaths". I'm asking for reads. Keeping your cards close to your chest will waste town time. I don't think we should play day 1 like we can afford even one mislynch, especially since we have no idea which PRs we have. You never know, other townies with much less experience could use your reads in a more efficient way.

Not to mention that by keeping your cards close to your chest you're crippling our ability to scumhunt you, and by consequence our ability to trust you.

I'm going to disagree here with you, and I think it's because I'm not making my intentions clear.
Here's where I'm at right now. I have expressed several things that I found scummy from tne and e. I have also expressed at least one townread, rb and implied that I thought Franky did some good town things. I'm getting inklings of people that are scum but I'm not confident in those reads. That's why I don't want to say them just yet. I don't think just pumping out full readslists when I have no comprehensive reasons to read a good chunk of people is going to help at all.
We're not going to end D1 without me expressing all of my current reads, if that's what you're worried about.

also tne pls read the goddamn game thx

I like Errantparabola's response here. I think it exhibits:
Naturalness
Moral justification to his game style
Disregard to pressure

Town read of Errantparabola strengthening.

Can't get followup from nacho without wagoning him?

Problem isn't the lack of posting, the problem is the lack of content within said posts.

This didn't answer Errant's question; Errant said that they already understood your point, but was asking specifically why you thought you needed to vote me in order to get followup from me.

Nacho posts that have any content at all are 31 32 and 76 and are mostly theory and easy to answer questions. In 31 he discusses RQS in 32 he discusses scumhunting techniques and in 76 (when the discussion has matured beyond this) he discusses RQS vs RVS. He hasn't contributed to the game despite being active.

I discussed RQS vs RVS because e implied that he was curious in the difference between them. Questions are content; Dirty Harry's original approach to e made it seem like he hadn't seen RQS before and was impressed by it in general and yet wasn't participating, which seemed like a contradiction between mindset and answers. His followup showed that he was experienced and thus probably knew that RQS was useless and instead his read was based on e's initiative despite being a new player, which is a reasonable enough perception. Franky's question to e seemed strange because it implied that there was something significant to be found on the first page, but I found his response that he thought it was weird e thought Harry couldn't have found anything on the first page to be reasonable enough. If you are arguing that the only valid form of content is conclusions, then you are wrong; questions help you understand mindsets and situations better, and a good early game should be far more centered around questioning than it should be centered around conclusions.

Nachos best post so far.
In terms of:
The expression of his thought-process, which is helpful.
Currently thinking: it will be hard to lynch Nacho.

[Dirty Harry2]

#146: Quotes Others to prove his point of his meta

Yeah I don't really get why people keep saying this guy is town

First, barely anyone believes I'm town, and second, that post isn't to "prove my meta." It's to prove that saying that saying "meta not alignment" isn't a scumtell, because I'm under the assumption that people are accusing me for that.

Yeah, we get it - but it's not useful. You can do it as either scum or town, it's a null-read and totally pointless. It's not a defense, it's not scumhunting, it doesn't help anyone understand anything.

I am sold on rb's perspective of scumtell-gate.

rb's understanding of e_is_cool's behaviour makes me want to re-read e's ISO:
Has e been distracted from scum-hunting because of this scum-tell disagreement?
Or is e using this as an avenue to stay active but not sort players?

[Dirty Harry2]

e has literally just been defending his meta right now

#30: Meta Defending + Soft Telling how scum should play
#34: Future Meta Defending + Covering Scums with WIFOM
#57: Still Trying to Defend his meta
#82: WIFOM'ing Self
#89: Wants to use My own Meta
#139: He's still trying to defend his Meta and is now trying to dismiss it
#146: Quotes Others to prove his point of his meta

Yeah I don't really get why people keep saying this guy is town

Good work thenewearth.
e has not shown me that he wants to solve the game.
Easy current scum lean.
However, not voting him due to his join date.

[Dirty Harry2]

However, not voting him due to his join date.

Question mark?

No question mark.
My hesitancy:
Before I can vote for e I want to see him scum hunt.
I have seen newbie town players expend their energies arguing why they are town instead of trying to find scum.

[Dirty Harry2]

Good work thenewearth.
e has not shown me that he wants to solve the game.
Easy current scum lean.

Yeah this is what you call buddying and you're my 2nd scum read

You deserved positive reinforcement.
You lacked a pro-active "mindset" previously.

I am glad you now have two scum reads as I found your narrow focus and associations with e intiguing.

[Dirty Harry2]

Okay so my current line of thinking is that either E is scum and was being townread by one of his scumbuddies or he's town and being pushed for an easy lynch.

Good summary.

Also there's 5 days left but if Vecna isn't doing anything by then I'll switch vote to him. His first 2 posts gave me a laughing fit but it's just annoying now. Even moreso because I know Vecna's a perceptive player and his input is useful. I'm not inclined to let a player spend an entire game making sheep noises.

Agreed.
The only reason not to vote him right now is based on WIFOM.

[Dirty Harry2]

I am glad you now have two scum reads as I found your narrow focus and associations with e intiguing.

Fuck town reads

its called "scumhunting" for a reason

Here was my concern:
If you are nightkilled your ISO would be very limited with a lack of interactions and focus with other players.

[Dirty Harry2]

Thanks for giving scum some WIFOM

Thanks for the town-read.

[Dirty Harry2]

I was town town-reading harry at any point at all?

The contradiction arose here:

'e_is_cool is scum'.
'Dirty Harry is scum'.
'Dirty Harry gave scum WIFOM'.

The 3 statements cannot be all true.
If false, the sincerity/strength of your scumreads come into question.

[Dirty Harry2]

@thenewearth
How strong is your scum read of me?
How strong is your scum team theory?



It feels like only 4 players are currently playing.

[Dirty Harry2]

If I am not online today I will be Thursday, to the end of Day 1.

[Dirty Harry2]

We still have 3 more days guys - can you let me have at least 1.

[Dirty Harry2]

I'm finally home.
I will be doing a thorough catch-up, then voting.

[Dirty Harry2]

Page 10

thenewearth: "Plus keeping it a secret helps town"
thenewearth revelling in his superior "mindgames".
Reading that as arrogant-town.
Happy to look past his apparent contradiction in reads (null indicative)


Page 11

@Nacho - I saw healthy paranoia in Errant being suspicious of his "surface-level" town play. We later see it was heavy-game theory, but Errant then directs that theory to Skold.
Regarding my "switch of style"?
I do not understand.

Nacho: "Your perspective over the "scumlean =/= neutral and that's it" is annoying."
Is Nacho challenging people's alignment or how correct their perspective is?

Skold: "And I'm not touching the scumlean-neutrality debate anymore because it wastes time and it was a mistake to start it."
Phew. Good call.

Page 12

thenewearth: "Also if Vecna is actually town then he's the worse lynch bait ever"
Indeed.
The only scum motivation to explain his playstyle is WIFOM.

Errant: "if I told you that I was skeptical on your conclusion on tne's slip, what would you say? What is your opinion on the rest of the town not also jumping on tne because of this?"
Sceptical is fine.
I too wanted thenewearth to explain his discrepancy in read versus observation.
I will answer the 2nd question after thenewearth flips.

Rb: "That's what I took from her post, and it makes sense that she'd question him on it and try to figure out what's going on."
I love Rb getting into the mindset of thenewearth here.

[Dirty Harry2]

I'm finally home.
I will be doing a thorough catch-up, then voting.

Confirmed World's longest catch-up.

We have time.

[Dirty Harry2]

Page 13

thenewearth: "And Vecna and Harry are really interchangable so I just adjusted accordingly"
thenewearth doesn't mind openly juggling between 4 wagons.
But happy to vote for the wagon with the most momentum.
@Errant - is this what you call surface level opportunism?

Scold " I'm not sure I like any townreads on me."
I do not town read you... yet.

Scold: "I'm willing to lynch anybody yes."
WIFOM says scum would not openly admit this...

Vecna: "i'm still fairly disappointed by the overall response that it has gathered"
Lynch-bait is lynch-bait.
No pro-active scum-hunting is no pro-active scum-hunting.
There is no right response to your playstyle.
As 'town', how do you seperate the townies wanting your policy lynch - and the scum pushing your miss-lynch?

Any other thoughts on the make-up of your wagon?

Vecna: "My #1 townread so far is RB."
Mine too.

[Dirty Harry2]

Page 14

Vecna: "Have seen scum do this as well before, pretend they just go afk but park a vote on their partner"
Yes, I've seen that too.

Vecna: "RB, the only reason I knew I could probably pull this off - and was willing to take the risk is because you have played with me before"
I fully believe this - but does that make Vecna cocky-town or cocky-scum?
I'm leaning cocky town.
I see it as a dangerous game-solving gambit.

If Vecna is scum he's town-cleared Rb and thenewearth.
This makes me sceptical of scum-Vecna.

[Dirty Harry2]

thenewearth.
Post links to your games as scum and town.
I want to see if you exhibit the same attitude there as you do here.


vecna - we should not lynch D1.

Rb - is my only town read.

I wish Errant would push more on his surface-level-town scum-reads.

Nacho I believe is holding back - thus, on the wrong side of null.

[Dirty Harry2]

Oh and btw to the person asking for my meta

No

Not gonna happen

I presume it is damning then.
Thank you for your honesty.

[Dirty Harry2]

So I spend 2 hours presenting a case against someone and people don't even want to read it....

I don't even know what to think of this. Getting tempted to ask Ircher to replace me.

I read this frustration as town-indignation.

[Dirty Harry2]

I feel like we need Nacho and Parabola interacting in real time at some point today before deadline.

[Dirty Harry2]

Hey, at least Ill be the idiot with my vote on the right person.

Vote order:
day2: TNE
Day3: Skold
Day4: there wont be a day 4 if u follow my advise

We'll talk after the game and then you can like, lick my boot in admiration or whatever

Hi Vecna.
Have you moved on from your scum-read of Skold now?
Please show me me when/how.

[Dirty Harry2]

Just reading your last post, sorry.

[Dirty Harry2]

About this big

Show me "this big".


All I saw was you thinking I was trying to buddy you when I said I liked your observations on e's behaviour.

[Dirty Harry2]

I liked Vecna's response to his wagon than thenewearth's reaction to his.

[Dirty Harry2]

Earth is V/LA btw so, I dno if intent means anything at this point.

Uh...odds of her being blue?

Low.
Earth self voted so either caught scum or VT.

[Dirty Harry2]

I will be here too.
No risk of no lynch.

[Dirty Harry2]

I've skimmed Vecna's posting, will respond in full when I'm more awake and more sober.

Would like to hear Nacho's current position on Vecna before the deadline.

[Dirty Harry2]

e was online earlier.
He must be happy with his vote on thenewearth...

[Dirty Harry2]

VOTE: e_is_cool

[Dirty Harry2]

A minimum of 40 posts per player is required for D2.

[Dirty Harry2]

VOTE: e_is_cool

Why?

A question for me?




I have questions for you:
Will this be your only motivation to post/contribute (when you are voted/there is pressure on your slot)?
Why aren't you trying to find scum?
Why aren't you trying to find town?
Where are your thoughts from D1?
What do you feel/think about me orchestrating thenewearth's lynch but never voting?
What do you think of the quickhammer?

I am not convinced.
I don't want you to tell me why you are town.

[Dirty Harry2]

Nacho and Parabola, I want to hear from both of you

Agreed.

VOTE: Thenewearth

I'm parking my vote in case I fall asleep.

Bad hammer - but it was where we were going anyway.
His sword or mine, thenewearth was going to be slain D1.
The Vecna wagon was dead.
Competing with no counter wagon.

Day 1 VC #9 (LYNCH)]Vecna (2) - Nacho, Earth
e_is_cool (0) -
Harry (0) -
Skold (1) - Parabola
Franky (0) -
rb (0) -
Parabola (0) -

Earth (5) (L-0) - Vecna, E_is_cool, Skold, Rb, Franky

Nacho (0) -
Not Voting (1) - Harry

Suspicion:
Do you think both mafia was on thenewearth's wagon?
One or none?
Due to the lack of activity around deadline it is hard to gauge the momentum of the miss-lynch.
All we know is that scum were happy not to create a counter wagon.
Theory:
At least 1 player who lurked out the deadline is scum.

At any rate, I still stand by my statement that todays focus should start with E_is_cool, nacho and ebola.

I want to re-read Skold too:

I can remember him defending thenewearth, RE: scum-slip episode.
Plus, Frank and rb had some strong words on him.

[Dirty Harry2]

Skold - thoughts on the momentum of the newearth wagon/miss-lynch?

Who are the heroes/villains/peripheral players?

[Dirty Harry2]

Oh wow there's another Clint Eastwood avatar guy! Cool!

This Town's not big enough for the both of us!

You were right.
Unfortunately mafia thought so too.

Reading rb's ISO later.

[Dirty Harry2]

Parabola.

Suspicion:
D1 ISO is game-theory heavy.
Light on pro-active pushing of players.
Strong scum read of Skold on D1 evident...
...but not online to push/reinforce/argue that scum-read of Skold at deadline.

Theory:
Happy to see thenewearth be lynched.

[Dirty Harry2]

Agreed.

We have 3 players who fit the 'playing hard to read'/'disappeared at EoD' profile:
(Aka tactically neutral profiles)

Nacho
Parabola
E

I hope this changes in the next 48 hours.

2 town deaths.
Low D1 interactions.
Mass replacements.
Town leader died.

Let's solve this game D2.

[Dirty Harry2]

My schedule has become busy.
If I am not online this evening, I will aim to contribute Friday.

[Dirty Harry2]

Okay, now that earth and rb are dead and flipped town, I would suspect anyone that pushed for an earth lynch but didn't vote for earth.

I pushed for an earth lynch and didn't vote for earth.
Who else?
Please add names to your theory.
What is your next step after suspicion?

Also, I know NK analysis is WIFOM, but I kinda find it suspicious that Nacho, an IC, is still alive.

Nacho was not a town leader.
Nacho was in many player's null/scum read list.
If Nacho is town: Nacho being an IC and still alive is not a surprise.
Scum will aim to kill the PR's/mass town read players D1.

It's kinda gut, but I think Skold could be scum trying to both push for earth's lynch to get a mislynch and defend earth because he knows earth is town.

RE: "defend earth because he knows earth is town" - I see this.

Rb - is my only town read.

Only town read?
This seems... excessively paranoid. Got anything else today?

It was excessively justified given how shit everyone was playing on D1. And ive allready done other posts after it where I give new reads.

Vecna sums it up perfectly.

This also demonstrates Nachomamma8's detachment to the nature of D1.

[Dirty Harry2]

Bye Franky.
Hello Loopdan.


e_is_cool re-read.

Unashamed OMGUS vote on thenewearth (#30).
Explains that his use of RQS is non-alignment indicative.
Wants Franky to show evidence of scumtell.
e_is_cool is aware that people are scum-reading him but firm/relentless on his stubborn self-defense: (#90, #112, #139, #146).
"Nacho is town for contributing" - weak reason for town-read.

I can take an E lynch and a Vecna lynch and if it's Nacho or nothing I'll bite that bullet

So, you're willing to jump on whatever lynch there is? Sounds pretty bandwagon-y. And scummy too.

Does e_is_cool go anywhere with this suspicion?

e_is_cool votes thenewearth for a third time (#395).
"Skold and TNE are pretty suspicious" - e_is_cool's main focus for D1.

e_is_cool's suspicion of Skold carries through to D2 (#539).

- Non-defensive/probing interactions with other players is limited.
- Scum-read of thenewearth and Skold most evident reads.
- Pushed thenewearth all D1.
- Low activity demonstrates his lack of desire to solve the game.
- Happy to be scum-read.

Scum-read weakening.
Frustration increasing.

[Dirty Harry2]

Parabola.
Please post.
You will be lynched either today or tomorrow.

[Dirty Harry2]

@Vecna

Thoughts on e?
E's D1 posts: he played out a 'come lynch me tomorrow' plan.
Where is his survival strategy as scum for D2?

These WIFOM factors weaken my scum read of e.

[Dirty Harry2]

Prods.

[Dirty Harry2]

Skold - thoughts on the momentum of the newearth wagon/miss-lynch?

Who are the heroes/villains/peripheral players?

@Skold - thoughts?


I want full disclosure.
I.e your part in the momentum of the lynch via your roleclaim/vote.
Please be sure to include the thought-process and timing of these two posts:

TNE looks bad for not answering questions but I have no confidence that she will flip scum.

Vote: TNE

[Dirty Harry2]

"At this point"...
@Loopdan - where are you in your catch-up?

[Dirty Harry2]

I believe these were two reasonable requests:

I feel like we need Nacho and Parabola interacting in real time at some point today before deadline.

A minimum of 40 posts per player is required for D2.

[Dirty Harry2]

e_is_cool's silence has been deafening.
I will be putting Parabola to L-1 within the next 24 hours.
With our penchant for quick-hammers, L-1 is basically the hammer.
Please beetlejuice in.

[Dirty Harry2]

@Vecna

Thoughts on e?
E's D1 posts:

he played out a 'come lynch me tomorrow' plan.
Where is his survival strategy as scum for D2?

These WIFOM factors weaken my scum read of e.

Do you mind explaining the bolted part to me?

e has lined himself up for pressure today:

- tunnel on miss-lynch newearth
- OMGUS vote
- narrow focus
- expressing easy town read
- over defensive
- disappearance at EoD
- beetlejuices in when voted
- not following up with D2 suspicions
- D2 low activity

Where is his exit strategy?
No 'surface-level town' posts.
Does not scum-e want to survive past Day 2?

The urge to put either E or parabola on L-1 right now is really really big, but I guess getting two replacements might be a lot better for town and the game in general.

I would support two replacements.
8 and a half days is suffice to catch-up and scum-hunt.

[Dirty Harry2]

Conclusion:
Bad-scum vs apathetic-townie.
Not town-reading.

[Dirty Harry2]

Liking Loopdan's analysis thus far.

Examples please.
Highlight the town-indicative analysis you "like".

[Dirty Harry2]

@loopdan

Who do you think had a dominant role in newearth's misslynch?
Who do you think had an active role in newearth's misslynch?
Who do you think had a peripheral role in newearth's misslynch?
Who do you think had a minimal role in newearth's misslynch?

[Dirty Harry2]

DirtyHarry bothers me for following up on disliking my read, dropping some terrible questions but not taking it any further than ''why''?
In other words - why didn't you vote/fos me? I'd vote me on the spot there.

If you're still alive tomorrow I will be coming for you.
Keep posting and pushing your "chopping board" suspects.

[Dirty Harry2]

''please state self-evident facts without providing any analysis''.
Seriously what are these questions? Is this a test to make sure he's read the thread or something?

I liked his "analysis" thus far.
Removed from the "chopping board".

Spoiler:

I wanted to see the D1 miss-lynch though his eyes.
Which players he wanted to implicate (where scum lay on the wagon).
Whether he was happy to name me (a mass town read player) as a peripheral/(scummy) contributor to the miss-lynch.
Now, wash your mouth out.

[Dirty Harry2]

Sorry for attacking your activity.
Get well soon brother x

[Dirty Harry2]

This also demonstrates Nachomamma8's detachment to the nature of D1.

It demonstrates my experience moreso than it expresses any sort of detachment (the only evidence you need to see for me being detached is activity, which is not the type of thing that is tied in too closely for players who don't possess noticeably lowered confidence levels/competence levels/interest levels as either alignment).

My interaction was less "you only have one townread? my god!" and more challenging you to push more townreads; you can't actively win a game unless you close some doors and open others, and only having one townread that you're willing to invest yourself is more of a player problem over an environment problem in an overwhelming majority of circumstances at an end of D1 at Mafiascum.

Detached in the sense I feel like you should have realised/identified with the reason why I only had one town read on D1.
"more challenging you to push more townreads"
I will accept the challenge.

D2 - my reads are developing slowly due to pace of the game.
Unfortunately I feel like my frustration with players is fueling my suspicion of them.

[Dirty Harry2]

Am I mistaken or did Harry not place a single vote Day 1? In my very limited mafia experience I've never seen that.

I did not engage in RVS.
I did not vote D1.
However, I was admittedly happy to hammer more than half the playerlist D1.
I have only voted e_is_cool.

[Dirty Harry2]

Look forward to e's catchup.
Sounds like he will not be replacing out.

[Dirty Harry2]

What if Nacho is not a student but mafia.
Vecna assigns a three page paper to Nacho and says it is due in two weeks at 3:00 PM.
Nacho avoids working on the paper because he wants to see thenewearth misslynched.
At 11 AM, Vecna refuses to accept any more papers and gives Nacho a 0.
Do you see why this is problematic?



We only get judged on what we do in the moment.
Timing.

[Dirty Harry2]

I think that it's a mistake to clear Vecna for lurking D1 and then producing content by EoD; the reaction test would be an admirable enough scum move but it's nowhere near impossible.

I feel like Vecna is unlynchable now.
It would need fresh blood in the player list to mount a serious lynch on him.
The gambit has secured his safety to LYLO/MYLO regardless of his alignment.

Outside of his D1 gameplan, I feel like Vecna and I are on the same wavelength on many posts/players.
This is usually a personal town-tell for me.
He is not today's lynch.

[Dirty Harry2]

Also stop setting me up for the NK please Harry :p

I don't want to die N2.
Take one for the team.

[Dirty Harry2]

Hello goodmorning.
I am very happy to see you join our game.
Post whatever you want.
Do not hold back.
Hopefully you will then be promoted to town bloc status.
Right now your slot is likely-scum.

[Dirty Harry2]

Fascinating/unexpected degree of entry.

[Dirty Harry2]

isn't a particularly indicative post but it really reminds me of the last time I was ScumIC.

Link please.

30 yeah, this is good aggression from e.

Aggressive-town... potentially, yes.

33: Franky's knocking on the walls and I like it.

Yes, Franky's early play did demonstrate a tendency of poke-and-see.

46: DH giving off those ScumICgm vibes again, stop, seriously

That's one of my favorite posts I'm made this game.
I shall not stop.

78: ugh DH speaking with these vague words, barely making a commitment to a read, stating obvious facts, I really don't know. I'd really like to not confbias myself but I'm just feeling Scum here.

I was wrong about thenewearth, he was in fact a frustrated townie.

lol @Skold "DH doesn't babble" fucking yes he does
I'm actually fine with DH on this page though.

I add babble to look human.
Enjoying the game is not a necessity, but it helps to play the game.
Especially when countering frustration and apathy.
My direct points remain.
Unadulterated and extemporaneous.

[Dirty Harry2]

Call this a dumb opinion, but I think a lot of people underestimate people's ability to play scum. Say someone does a thing and people say "oh hey, this this is obvious scum" but from my observation, it could just as easily be town that doesn't watch themselves than scum that lets something slip through the cracks.

THIS IS WHAT I WAS TALKING ABOUT

10/10, would replace parabola again.

Can I just p much quote everything parabola says on this page as things I agree with? (except 142 ok)

Please stop town-reading the previous player in your slot.
It is amusing but ultimately futile information.

so Nacho is Town, OK. 157, seriously.

Explain.

Last line of DH 183 worries me.

I still stand by all those observations.

ftr post 206 has DH tell his scumlean that they might get nightkilled.

Unfortunately for thenewearth and us I was spot on with that conclusion.
I wish I'd been more patient with his attitude.

Is the rest of d1 just going to be the railroading of TNE? Because I can skip ahead.

The miss-lynch is information.
Do you think it was town-led, manipulated by scum from afar or other?
At the beginning of D2 I was penciling in a one-on, one-off wagon theory.
However, I concluded pushing lynches based on pre-flip associations/VCA was tactically misguided this early.

[Dirty Harry2]

UNVOTE: e_is_cool
Consider my vote still on him.
I do not want another quickhammer.
I am still weary of players who are not fully engaged with the game and may vote him unexpectedly.
Both goodmorning and e can now complete their full catch-up.
7 days to deadline.

[Dirty Harry2]

ftr post 206 has DH tell his scumlean that they might get nightkilled.

Unfortunately for thenewearth and us I was spot on with that conclusion.
I wish I'd been more patient with his attitude.

This looks like a fake townslip.

@Everyone else:

do you also think this looks like a fake townslip?

I'm not sure how I would discern the difference. It does seem strange given how closely Dirty Harry seems to be following the game.

It was not a scum slip.
It was not a town slip.
It was me politely asking him to widen his focus.
I could have used more colourful words but my message was clear enough.
thenewearth was not confirmed scum D1.
Thus, suggesting he focus on every player he would leave more information for us.
thenewearth did not take my advice.
He did not return on site.
Franky quickhammered him.
The picture is clear.

[Dirty Harry2]

Because TNE was already flailing. 9/10 times you say something dumber than the thing you started flailing for. DH was not flailing. Also, as I said, I do have the benefit of hindsight.
Not quite what I meant. Let me rephrase:
"It's really strange that everyone went after TNE for implying that his scumread was actually Town, especially given the fact that DH did the exact same thing!"

It is because my thought process was clear.
TNE was stubborn and argued stances blinded by false WIFOM logic.
Plus his attitude caused friction that fueled suspicion.
He was frustrated.

My 'contradition' was based on a non-solid scum read of newearth.
I scum read him, but I didn't want that to effect the potential of information and insight he could provide if he was town.

[Dirty Harry2]

Call this a dumb opinion, but I think a lot of people underestimate people's ability to play scum. Say someone does a thing and people say "oh hey, this this is obvious scum" but from my observation, it could just as easily be town that doesn't watch themselves than scum that lets something slip through the cracks.

THIS IS WHAT I WAS TALKING ABOUT

10/10, would replace parabola again.

Can I just p much quote everything parabola says on this page as things I agree with? (except 142 ok)

Please stop town-reading the previous player in your slot.
It is amusing but ultimately futile information.

A. Neither of these is an example of me townreading parabola.
B. They instead act as a shortcut in the demonstration, because I'm lazy. [If I had played from the beginning, what sorts of contemporaneous reactions might I have had to the goings-on? Well, my predecessor said exactly what I was thinking here, so I don't have to.].

This is cute.
But no.

You like his posts because you think they are from town.
But he is your slot so this line of reasoning is futile.

Why would you want to replace in a scum slot 10/10.
Why would you want to quote all the posts of scum as your own.
Why would you agree with scum indicative posts.

This 'shortcut in the demonstration' is futile.

Errant's intro was game theory heavy - it could have been copy and pasted by scum or town.

It is what I called NULL.

I was interested in his push on Skold but we never got to see the results of his work in Newbie 1723 due to personal reasons.

[Dirty Harry2]

Stating im an "idiot" just because you dont like certain strategies is shortsighted to say the least. At any rate my reads are probably far superior to any town player thinking theyre oh so awesome this game, and the methods always justify the means.

@Vecna - is this a scum slip?
goodmorning said it was a scum slip.

A minimum of 40 posts per player is required for D2.

Fuck this. I really don't need 40 more posts from Skold to drown the 1 contentish post e will undoubtedly provide.

I think we should have 400 more posts from Skold.
I presume you think Skold is mafia?

NACHO WHERE ARE YOU

You are not the first to have asked this.

What a decisive comment! Does it have a point?

You have a habit of reading but not absorbing.
Concerning.

That's true. Again, point?

I wanted to add a point to complement your incomplete observation.

Actually, your direct points are extremely adulterated by all the babble. That's

my

point.

I can explain every observation I have made.
I can defend every stance I have taken.
Unfortunately, there is no stopping me.

[Dirty Harry2]

In the quote I referred to as looking like a fake townslip, you imply that you think TNE was NK'd. TNE was not NK'd. TNE was lynched. You have previously demonstrated correct usage of these terms. You have previously demonstrated precise knowledge of the events of this game.
The picture is very clear, despite your attempt here to muddy it.

There is no mud.
When TNE was alive there was a possibility of him being either NK'd or lynched.
NK'd if town.
Lynched if town or scum.
Simple.

[Dirty Harry2]

THAT WENT WELL

ACTUAL RESPONSE TO AFOREQUOTED:

No, I agree with parabola's

page 6

posts because

I agree with them

. Logic doesn't have to be alignment-indicative; someone could say, for instance, that VCA sucked, then flip Scum - but I'd still agree with that statement, because that statement is correct regardless of their alignment.

I would replace parabola again, because parabola mostly didn't say anything egregious that I'd have to deal with and

did

say some theory things I agree with and rarely see espoused. (Also, some people prefer playing as Scum, you know.)
I mean, parabola is me, so if parabola was Scum then I am too, and trying to disavow posts usually looks a lot worse than accepting them.
It depends on what you define as 'Scum indicative.'

You are not required to feel any measure of appreciation for my rapid catch-up.

This line is about to make my head explode. So. Let's summarize:
You: "Agreeing with those posts is equivalent to saying you find them Town."
Me: "I don't think they're Town. I agree with them and think they're useful to my catch-up."
You: "No, you think they're Town, even though there's nothing alignment-indicative about them."
Me, right now: No, I think there's nothing alignment-indicative about them. Also, I didn't join yesterday; you can shove your attempts to force that scumtell-as-old-as-time to apply here.

The more you talk about your own slot is nauseous.
It is futile.
Please talk about other players.
I want others to talk about parabola's contributions not you.
Thank you.

[Dirty Harry2]

I'm still ride or die on Skold-Town but wtf is going on here???

That was at page 7 of your catch-up:
I was uncertain with the tone of your attitude towards Skold:
"too many Skold posts I DON'T NEED"
"I really don't need 40 more posts from Skold to drown the 1 contentish post e will undoubtedly provide."

That is no way to encourage a town player.
Content and contributions are key.
What if town-Skold has feelings?

You have a habit of obfuscation. Concerning.

I hear that many "experts" say that is a scum-tell.
How will you proceed with a player that has a supposed habit of obfuscating?

You seem awfully interested in defending yourself before I've even properly begone the attack.

Not defending myself.
Just destroying every contradiction and illogical point you raise.

Begin your attack.
Then I will highlight more logical fallacies and holes.

[Dirty Harry2]

In a post you wrote AFTER TNE WAS LYNCHED, you imply that you think he was not lynched but nightkilled. STOP OBFUSCATING.

thenewearth was lynched by Franky.
That is a fact.
If I said something that contradicted that fact I must apoligize.
Let the record state thenewearth was lynched.
Actually, the mod has kindly provided these facts on page 1 if you would care to revisit them.

During D1, I did not know how he would die.
Hence, 'widen focus incase you are NK'd'.

This post isn't about parabola's contributions; it's about some of parabola's theory that you insist I must townread just because I agree with it.

I suggest you try a little thing called

reading comprehension

.

From my perspective you were talking about parabola's contributions in a positive light.
I would usually want this type of interaction via players of a different slot.
If you do not see how/why I see this, then there is nothing more I can say to help you.

[Dirty Harry2]

I don't need any more Skold posts because 1. I'm sure he's Town and 2. he's mostly been a huge distraction rather than a major force of scumhunting.

Thank you for clarifying this.
So who are the two mafia that inhabit our Newbie 1723 village?

Save them for when I'm feeling patient and/or belligerent, usually.

If I felt strongly about obfuscating being a solid scum-tell I would cement that scum-read with a vote.

[Dirty Harry2]

I will be online this evening.

[Dirty Harry2]

Four words.
goodmorning is bad town.

[Dirty Harry2]

I need a few more words.

Pushing a vanity wagon is my only concern while ignoring the pressing issues of D1/D2.

My "Fascinating/unexpected degree of entry" comment about her reads can be explained by her:
- stubborn and self-righteous use of false paradigms/logical fallacies
- amusing clutch to short-sighted assumptions in regard how anti-town/pro-town actions are alignment indicative.
- why not just bus your scum-team mate?
- why create a counter vanity wagon?
- there is no reward D3
- does she realise her scum meta is not the universal scum template?
- does she realise not having strong stances on a non-productive D1 is not alignment indicative?


I do not see scum pushing this badly on town.

I do see a player over-confident about her mafia-game-ability.
But the ego-centric attitude is abhorrent.
Leading to no constructive interplay.
This false confidence leads her down an alley of spiralling blind confirmation bias.
Cute.
Very cute.
But undeniably bad.
Not bad scum.
Given her join date.

Posting a greatest hits list of her newbie history is shameful and tactically grotesque.
Demonstrates how deep confirmation bias has set in.
Immoderate self-conceit has festered.
Consider this post a helping hand.
This is a team game.
You need to stop projecting your personal prejudices.

[Dirty Harry2]

Past succes is no guarantee for the future, and i really just don't see it here

goodmorning's relentless use of logical fallacies is comical.

[Dirty Harry2]

Skold.
Post.
Or you will replaced.

Nacho is sinking deeper into the pit of PoE-scum.
I hope he demonstrates that he wants to solve the game soon.
If he converts me into a believer I will sheep.

[Dirty Harry2]

Pre-flip association:
Not seeing e_is_cool and loopdan as scum-scum.
That would be very impressive/dynamic scum play if partners.

[Dirty Harry2]

I'm VERY familiar with vanity wagons.

Judging by your past games you are an expert.

[Dirty Harry2]

Also, DH, I dont agree with your assesment. I think its very likely that she's trying to mimic her past town-game to divert attention from her scum-read slot by trying to appear as "bad town" as you put it

"mimic her past town-game" - Interestingly, I wanted to lynch goodmorning for posting this:

[My replace-in meta in Newbie games, for Vecna and/or DH]
N1624 (VT, midD2) - @DH: some examples of what me ACTUALLY townreading my predecessor looks like; @Vecna: I replaced in and immediately started pushing someone I thought was scummy and

literally everyone else

thought was Town (spoiler: I was right). Also "interesting."

But I feel it was more because I despised her lack of logic and humility (not alignment).
I do not believe in D2 policy lynches.


Look at the 5 reasons why goodmorning scum reads me.
It is nonsensical and farcical:

I think DH is Scum for a few reasons:
1. DH reminds me a lot of how I play as ICScum

goodmorning thinks her ICScum meta = my scum meta.
That is absurd.

2. Early on he took few stances, and the ones he did take were mostly pretty soft.

Taking few soft stances early on D1 is not scum-indicative.
Especially when it is a low-productive lurk-out D1 frenzy.
I believe I had only one strong read on D1.

3. I think he uses 10 words where 5 would do.

Why is using 10 words instead of 5 scum-indicative?
I use as many words to successfully get my point across.

4. The snap dismissal of Faalcon's (pretty good for a Newb) readslist.

Why is analysing Faalcon's readslist scum-indicative?
Is Faalcon's slot town?
I still stand by my observation.

5. The (probable) fake townslip and his reaction to me pointing it out.

This was no "fake" town-slip.
I predicted that if thenewearth was to die, his ISO would be limited.

Do you honestly expect scum to be pushing those 5 points as a reason to lynch town?
Do you expect town to sheep her 'logic'?


Null-town-lean. Bad town.
Annoyingly that slot will never be night-killed now.
However, if we lynch scum today I will revisit my 'pushing a vanity wagon' theory.

[Dirty Harry2]

Ircher, please can you update the VC.

Didn't catch that mistake earlier; it should be fixed. Please bold future questions to me or send them by pm.
~Ircher

[Dirty Harry2]

How is being wordy indicative of alignment?

I don't think that implying that a scumread might get nightkilled is particularly scummy when he didn't imply that him getting nightkilled was probable; do you?

I'm having trouble grasping why on earth you would think that this is a legitimate line of attack.

Why would DH as scum who is universally townread, attempt to fake a townslip here?

Why would the townslip he faked be "oh, I thought TNE got nightkilled?" when he was a universal scumread D1 and Harry was obviously engaged enough in the game to realize that he was lynched and not nightkilled?

I don't think that your perspective on this vote shows that you're critically thinking and it sure as hell doesn't look like a genuine push to me.

Agree with all observations.

Lack of logic and 'critical thinking'.
No 'legitimate' alignment indicative accusation raised.
Quintessential vanity wagon.

Bad town or obvious scum?

[Dirty Harry2]

Outside of his D1 gameplan, I feel like Vecna and I are on the same wavelength on many posts/players.
This is usually a personal town-tell for me.
He is not today's lynch.

It seems more like you're townreading Vecna for being one of the few players to not frustrate you in an intense way as opposed to anything more significant than that.

I will concede that I freely accepted his reaction test as a 'town' gambit.
My attempts to white knight him have failed.
I will go through the points/players he is pushing that I agree with if you would like.
Similar mutual vibes I experienced with rb.
If he has pocketed me I'd prefer him alive at MYLO as he posts freely.
His early D1 play did frustrate me.

[Dirty Harry2]

He panicked slightly. (Also, if he was really Town, I'd expect him to have just gone, "whoops, mistyped that" rather than going through about 6 different misreps to avoid the allegation altogether.)

The only panic I experienced this game was when thenewearth flipped town.
His town flip underlined inadequacies in my D1 contributions.
My correct town-read of rb has encouraged me to scumhunt by PoE D2, given the flow of interactions.

"I'd expect him to have" - and that is where your game falls short.
It is plagued by personal prejudice,
logical fallacies,
confirmation bias
and vile ego.

"Avoid the allegation"?
Your illegitimate "allegations" are illogical
and lacking 'critical thinking'.
I have answered everything with clarity and conviction .

[Dirty Harry2]

I will go through the points/players he is pushing that I agree with if you would like.

I would like this.
I'd also like to hear your opinion on his e_is_cool push, since that is a place where your opinions differ.

Spoiler:

My feelings right now:

Town:
RB

Usefull players, townlean, but still possible good scum players pretending:
Dirty Harry
Franky
Skold

Group that I feel contains scum#2:
Nacho
Parabola
E_is_cool

Scum #1:
TNE

Either way, I really want E, Nacho and Parabola to get more active tomorrow/today since I feel they have not been doing a whole lot at all this game, and theres a high likelyhood that theres a scum in this group

At any rate, I still stand by my statement that todays focus should start with E_is_cool, nacho and ebola. Havent seen nearly enough of any of these players.

Nacho and Parabola, I want to hear from both of you

My strong suspicion is youre just scum trying to ride it out. Your EOD participation is rubbish.

I want to see your thoughts of the game and of the people in it. Youre not giving us anywhere near enough information to ascertain whether youre town or scum, so untill you do im just going to assume the latter.

Do you mind at least giving us some arguments for coming to the exact same reads as me and some others have been having? Not that I disagree with them, but your playstyle so far just does absolutely nothing for us to be able to distinguish between a town or scum player.

...wut?

What analysis?

Did I miss something?

Also stop setting me up for the NK please Harry :p

Not sure if this is a jokepost or you really think this is a scumslip, either way it was clearly addressed at other town players, not scum or myself.....

You've made some insinuations regarding me and my playstyle. Do you scumread me? If so, why?
-You've also been mentioning E_is_cool in passing, but only to the extent of wanting to see more of him, and complaining about people that talk much more because they "drown out the few posts made by E" (just paraphrasing here). How do you feel about E? What do you think his allignment is, and what makes you think that?

Past succes is no guarantee for the future, and i really just don't see it here.

Also, DH, I dont agree with your assesment. I think its very likely that she's trying to mimic her past town-game to divert attention from her scum-read slot by trying to appear as "bad town" as you put it

Are all games on this site usually like this? Because if so this will definately be my last game on here

- shared apathy/frustration towards the same players (E/Nacho/Parabola).
- Vecna would post something I was thinking of posting
- shared paranoia regarding Nacho's D1 activity
- challenges loopdan's empty reads
- shared humour
- goodmorning's hesitant scum-read of Vecna
- goodmorning's associations via e
- squashes goodmorning's logical fallacy
- different conclusion on goodmorning's alignment but it was an interesting perspective
- self-defeat/frustration

I do not think he has been overly concerned about my attempts to buddy up with him.
I think we both have town-reads of eachother.
His D2 defense of me has been noted.
We are very unlikely to vote for eachother today.


RE: Vecna's opinion of my distancing/doubt about the e-wagon:

I sort of agree with you that of the lurkers he feels least scummy so far. The few things he has been posting appear reasonably genuine to me. However even though he's a new player I do know this sort of stuff can be faked, so Im definately not putting him anywhere near a townread at this point. With this sort of playstyle I always remain worried the low level of posting is because theyre afraid to slip or starting to contradict themselves in later days without being able to keep backing it up by town logic.

Town players should never be afraid to post and participate a lot. Low levels of participation only benefits scum, whether theyre actually scum or town.

This post kept my suspicion of e_is_cool alive.
I still do not town read the e slot.
His replacement before the deadline is key.

[Dirty Harry2]

I wanted e_is_cool to roleclaim given the previous deadline...
However, an additional day will allow Nictherat time for a full catch-up.
Right now, my town-lean of Skold has disappeared too.
I plan on a full re-read.

[Dirty Harry2]

"I'd expect him to have" - and that is where your game falls short.

What is a reaction test but a gambit that you

expect

one alignment to react to one way and the other alignment to react to a different way?

True.
I do agree we come into this game with our own preconceptions on how scum and town should behave.
However, I felt you were transfixed into reading every thing I was saying as possessing scum-motivation.
(Many points I think were non-alignment indicative).
Is there even 1% doubt/hesitancy/paranoia/conflict in your scum-read of me?
You have come into this game attacking the top two town-reads...
(That is not scummy).
But it is the reasons why you have done this, which is troubling me.

[Dirty Harry2]

@goodmorning
I am now ready to smoke the peace-pipe.
I apologise for my behaviour.

[Dirty Harry2]

I do think that Morning is on the right track with a Harry scum lean, but It doesn't seem solid enough to make me think that Harry is confirmed scum yet.
For now, I think that, whilst Morning is keeping the slot above ground, Parabola dug a hole, so for now my two scum leans are Harry and Morning

Do you think Morning is on the right track of bussing her teammate?
I do not understand your Harry-Morning scum lean theory.
When I like the pro-active scum-hunting a player is doing I tend to town-lean that slot.
I feel like your scum-lean on Morning is suspicious.
I feel like you have offered no serious/authentic catch-up but have thrown out an early/suspicious/contradicting scum-lean on goodmorning.

Please talk me through scum-goodmorning.

[Dirty Harry2]

-Nic comes out with the weirdest statement ever. His scumreads are both Harry and Morning.....the two guys that have been attacking each other relentlessly? Especially after he states that he agrees with morning regarding DH. Does this mean you think that theyre scum together and just bussing? Or does this mean you think one of them is scum together with one of your neutrals? Furthermore, he is townreading the guy that wants to lynch him....pretty odd as well.

Agreed.
I think we should play together again.

-Think my stance on DH is pretty clear, nothing changed there. Will not vote him today no matter what

The feelings are mutual.
So this is what a man-crush feels like.

[Dirty Harry2]

You need to use the following mate:


[ s p o i l e r = ]I AM TOWN[ / s p o i l e r]

(Without the spaces).
E.g

Spoiler:

This is not a buddy test. Get out my pocket

[Dirty Harry2]

Day 2 VC #7

Lynch Threshold

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch!

Day 1 ends on August 3, 2016 5:30 PM EST DST+1 or in 1 day, 12 hours, 14 minutes.

Mod Notes

Deadline extended 24 hours.

@Ircher
Has the 24 hour extension already been added?

Yes.
~Ircher

[Dirty Harry2]

I think that either Harry or Morning is scumbuddies with Skold or Loop

I need to see how/why you are drawing up these associations.
Which interactions are fuelling your suspicion?

my feeling that Morning is scum is mostly based on the turn around between Parabola and Morning. Morning's responses to the first few posts directed at him/her read like they're trying to hide something.

I do not understand the "turn around" remark.
"hide" what?

[Dirty Harry2]

I want Nictherat to roleclaim.

[Dirty Harry2]

I want Nictherat to roleclaim.

Then why haven't you voted him?

VOTE: Nictherat
THIS IS L-1.
NO ONE QUICKHAMMER.

[Dirty Harry2]

Day 1 VC (LYNCH)

Vecna (2) - Nacho, Earth
Skold (1) - Parabola
Earth (5) - Vecna, E_is_cool, Skold, Rb, Franky
Not Voting (1) - Harry

[Dirty Harry2]

Deadline in 9 hours.
Post as much as you can now.
Otherwise you will be D3 lynch-bait.

[Dirty Harry2]

Stuff im still expecting (oh look at me being hopefull) within the next 23 hours:

-A short list of allignment reads of everyone in the game from Nictherat, Nacho and Goodmorning
-A more thorough catching up post from NictheRat
-Those answers from Goodmorning ive been waiting on since forever -1
-Some goddamn participation in general since its EOD2 and we still havent managed to get tons of shit that was promised by several people

- Goodmorning's latest position on Nacho +1


UNVOTE: Nictherat
EoD cold feet.

[Dirty Harry2]

DH, how do you expect nic to roleclaim if he isn't at L-1? I am puzzled by your unvote.

We have less than 8 hours left. I will be back before deadline, but I have little faith that the scum-read slots will. There are essentially four of us who seem to be generally town-reading each other that are also active (Faalcon, DH, Vecna, me). Yes, I'd very much like the others to get here and give reads and votes and expose their opinions for review. However, if the others stay away the rest of the Day, we can decide the lynch without them.

I believe nearly everyone has stated a scum-read/suspicion of Nictherat/e.
I am cautious of both an early hammer and the possibility of half the playerlist not showing up for deadline again.
I feel like Nictherat should roleclaim NOW regardless.
We then have 6 + hours to react.
I know exactly who won't be NK'd tonight.
I feel like we will have a repeat of D1, so I wanted the roleclaim early.

I tried to post V/LA three different times Monday but apparently none of them took. So:

V/LA til tomorrow.

You may be lynched later, so good luck for now, and hope we play again.
FYI: regardless of your alignment, that post about your suspicion of me has killed you.
You will likely be lynched for it, either today or tomorrow.

[Dirty Harry2]

Why are Vecna and I still alive?

Are Nacho and goodmorning not scum then?

Or was loopdan such an obvious town PR?

Did loopdan inherit his slot's N1 innocent result?

No one votes, correct?

[Dirty Harry2]

Note.

In that event, who are you (Faalcon, DH, & Vecna) most comfortable lynching as the game stands right now?

My lynch preference (in order):
nic
nacho
morning

[Dirty Harry2]

Note.

Scum reads (in no particular order):
e_is_cool
parabola
Nacho

Town reads (in no particular order):
Skold
Vecna
Harry

[Dirty Harry2]

ugh

Vote: Nic

only viable wagon and so on

I actually have to go now.

Everyone expressed a willingness to lynch/scumread goodmorning D2.
Was this late L-1 vote made to survive?

[Dirty Harry2]

Unvote for now mate.
Let everyone post.
Then we vote.
It only takes 3 to lynch.

[Dirty Harry2]

-scum wants us to start asking these questions and are using the weird wifom nk to thry and direct attention away from themselves, and got lucky in the process by hitting the cop.

Possible WIFOM NK.
I did not see that NK coming.
I did not see him hint/soft cop.
He wasn't even the most town-read player - scum obviously wanted the cop dead.
[He was scum-reading Nacho and goodmorning]
The two popular scum-reads.

No one is pushing an argument on Vecna.
goodmorning was the only player pushing an argument on me.

Did scum not care who me/Vecna were going to push today?

It feels like scum want us to vote goodmorning and Nacho.
The easy votes.

[Dirty Harry2]

Quick question: do vt's get a pm from the gms wheb theyre roleblocked? Because if so we could have a potential town"clear" if noone were to cc whoever got roleblocked n2

No.

[Dirty Harry2]

How did scum-Nacho/goodmorning expect this to go?
Faalcon/me/Vecna are all suspicious of them.
Faalcon even came into D3 with an immediate vote.
We are unlikely to vote eachother too.

Something's not right.

IMO, let's start from scratch.
From D1.
Because at the moment this game is over.

[Dirty Harry2]

Now on 6 night holiday.
Activity variable.

[Dirty Harry2]

I will be online from tomorrow guys with a full catchup.

[Dirty Harry2]

Reading Nacho now.

[Dirty Harry2]

Reading through Nachomamma8's posts.
I hope to either have a strong town read or strong scum read of him.
Day One

as opposed to the scum-e_is_cool overreacting and miss-representing my motivations with a reachy scum theory narrative

I don't think e misrepresented your motivations; it's more likely that he came up with a theory that isn't very likely to be correct.

Suspicion: reading this back it sounds like you knew e_is_cool was town.
"more likely" - how do you know which stance is the "more likely" actual position?
Did your early town-read of e_is_cool make you lean "more likely" townie with incorrect theory?

Uneasy with this snap-shot of everyone - some observations were more info/activity-led than alignment indicative-led.
No direct interactions thus far with any players though.

I don't think that this is an unreasonable place to be at this point in time; most players haven't really done a whole lot of note quite yet and it's not like Faaaalcon ignored any events that were particularly interesting. Are there some things that Faaalcon should have picked up on but didn't?

Again, this feels like a soft defense.
It seems like you know which points I raise are either valid or invalid.

Also, why didn't you answer what you thought of Parabola yet?

If we get a Day 4, flag this post as a possible association-tell.
Over-concern on a player's opinion on a low-active player.

I could have chosen to open the game and push all of the small leans that I have strongly regardless of alignment, but I've chosen to play this game more conservatively than usual; this doesn't mean that I won't contribute to game solving as much as I would normally, but it does mean that I will dramatically cut down on saying things just to say things.

The way in which I gamesolve will be different.

I thought you were purposefully playing conservatively because you were a town PR.
What benefits have you gained from choosing to "play this game more conservatively than usual"?

I can't tell between badtown and scum here butthose last posts are awful.

And this in particular seems like a ridiculous exaggeration; you think that calling someone who gave a scumlean neutral is awful?

Does Nacho follow up on Skold's "ridiculous exaggeration" with more focus/pressure?
Yes.
Nacho later calls Skold's perspective as "annoying" (post 252).

My concern with Vecna's approach to the game right now is that it is limiting its communication pretty heavily; Vecna was pretty actively engaged in its last game, whereas in this game Vecna is certainly active, but is also apparently pushing a serious suspect that doesn't really appear to be a popular one but all of its reasons for pushing are lost in weird noises.

I understand that switching up playstyles and giving yourself a self-imposed post restriction in mafia can be entertaining, but I don't think that your current post restriction gives you the communication skills necessary to play effectively; would you mind choosing one that doesn't inhibit your speech so much?

An over-wordy way of saying "stop sh*t posting" to Vecna.

Nacho tells thenewearth that his points on e_is_cool are non-alignment indicative (post 219).

"RQS is town you're scum because you dont agree with e"

This is why you think that people voted for you, apparently. This reads like a hallucination; no one voted you for anywhere close to these reasons. I don't understand how you got to this if you actually read people's reasoning for voting you in any significant way at all, which is a problem because it shows that you're just blindly pushing. Gun to my head, I'd say that it's more likely that this blind pushing nonsense comes from you as town as opposed to you as scum (I don't think you think you could sell this bullshit to the players in general as scum), but this is one of those gigantic red flashing lights announcing that you are in a tunnel and you need to get the fuck out; you could be right, granted, but if you're right, then you will still find yourself coming back if you decide to come up for air for a little bit.

Nacho is very articulate in explaining how a player's suspicion/read is misguided.

Your exhaustive discussion with Skold regarding 'scumlean-neutrality' was extensive.
What did you draw upon it regarding Skold's alignment?

However, you were least articulate on this suspicion/read:

My preference for a lynch is Vecna.

Nacho misses day one deadline.

[Dirty Harry2]

Finishing my Nachomamma8 re-read tonight.
Then I will try to find scum in Faalcon/Vecna.

[Dirty Harry2]

Also note, no quickhammer since Nacho's vote made on Sun Aug 14, 2016 12:19 am.
This tells me there is guaranteed scum in Nacho and goodmorning (singular or both).

[Dirty Harry2]

Yes, hypothetically if there is scum in Dirty Harry2/Vecna scum have won.
The game was finished as soon as this day started.
I felt like the player(s) we were lynching was inevitable.
That is what troubles me.

Must finish my Nacho re-read.
Looking at his replies to my points,
I am still thinking:

Currently thinking: it will be hard to lynch Nacho.

Every reply is calm and well-worded.
I.e good defense.

[Dirty Harry2]

Well played.

[Dirty Harry2]

Was anyone going to lynch Vecna?
No.
MVP.

[Dirty Harry2]

Did you honestly scum-read me, or did you want to enter the game scum-reading the popular town-read (tactical decision)?