Newbie 1815: Prisons [Endgame]

[JaeReed]

Alright, I'm not gonna do a big IC post, but rather point everyone to smith's big IC posts as I think they cover everything I'd want to cover, anyways.

I'm also going to just point out this rule real quick because this is a common one I see people break and the mod has to take action over:

PLEASE do not make reference to meta formed in other games still ongoing, no matter how discreet you attempt to be about it.

If you're in an ongoing game, no matter if you are alive or dead, do not talk about it. Treat all ongoing games as if they do not exist.
I know that can be frustrating when you think you have solid reasoning for why x player is y alignment but please only focus on this game until said games are over and you are allowed to talk about it. Meta should only be a supporting factor anyway, so ideally you want to be able to point to things with clear scum motivation in this game alone.

Vote: osuka

Top tier shitposters are my weakness.

[JaeReed]

I'm flattered. Can I quote that?

Once the game is over, sure.
Quoting from ongoing games falls under the "don't talk about ongoing games" rule.

[JaeReed]

Can we break the setup? pleeeease?

I'm in two minds about that.
As an IC and a player I hate the strategy. It does not teach newbies how things are generally done on the site and shifts the focus to setup spec rather than day play.

That said, as far as win con it is currently with this setup still the best course of action, I think?
Meh. I think we should do it since you have to play to win con, ultimately.

I'll make a big post on it once I catch up.

[JaeReed]

is anyone going to post?

We have 2 weeks, so posting can be a bit slower for the first day where everyone still has to check in.
You made this post after about 26ish posts in which there was a back and forth with NTRP and osuka, so this feels kind of out of place for the gamestate.
Are you used to faster paced games?

[JaeReed]

VOTE: NotTheRealPaul kinda shifty

What do you find shifty about NTRP?

[JaeReed]

@Madattters this is RVS, none of the votes are meant to be serious.

The idea is to kickstart discussions quickly.

Now then, I think we should start. Who do you think is scummy and why?

Ciara24 has been pretty quiet. I don't know if that's just me, but they're the only one who hasn't posted. I would assume that everybody would post at least once to get their name up there, even if they're not necessarily going to contribute to the conversation. I feel like Ciara's seeming pretty scummy to me.

Activity is generally not a reliable way to read someone as there are a number of real life reasons that someone could be away from the thread.

[JaeReed]

Alisae is confscum
Why would anyone keep track of votes other than to get town lynched? I say we have our d1 lynch

VOTE: alisae

I feel like osuka's town.

What do you find especially townie about that post?

[JaeReed]

Based on their posts I'm gutreadding Maddatters as town.

You're welcome.

I'm not.

Can you attempt to pinpoint what you like about Madtatters? Is it tone, line of questioning, interactions, the scumread on Ciara, or something else?

[JaeReed]

Osuka has seemed pretty town to me, and you've seemed pretty scummy, icibalus. I sense you and Ciara ate scum.

What are you finding scummy about Icibalus? Can you point to a post that you disliked and try to explain why, please?

[JaeReed]

Ya except no one is posting so maf are gonna get a free win so we get out of RVS.

btw madhatters (I think) ur vote wasnt bolded so it wont count.

You should move it to isuka though so we can scare him with L-1

Why do you scumread osuka?

UNVOTE:

[JaeReed]

Ok I'm too lazy to make a big post of my own so I went and found some RadiantCowbells ones. I'm not going to force a popcorn, just do it when you see this post.
All we're doing right now is claiming if we are or are not the 1-shot bulletproof.

Claiming not 1-Shot BP.

Spoiler: some posts where RC explains this strat

Subject: Newbie 1775 | URW 2 | Endgame

The correct play at the beginning of D1 in this setup is for the 1-Shot Bulletproof, if any, to claim. This helps town immensely in numerous setups. Why am I advocating this?

1) It is fucking insane for scum to try to claim 1-shot BP in this situation. It is an insane risk play which forces a 1v1 in 5/6 setups and gets minor towncred in 1/6.
2) If the setup is Roleblocker/Jailkeeper/1-Shot BP, it's easy for the BP claim to be disbelieved. The claim coming at the start of the game makes it far more trustworthy.
3) If the setup is Tracker/1-Shot BP/Goon, the Tracker knows that there is no doc and can be a lot safer on claiming. Note that mathematically the correct play is to target the outed tracker if the other PR is not known; so little potential gain is made here.
4) If the setup is Tracker/Doc/Goon, a living tracker will know by the lack of a BP claim that there is a doctor. He can then claim safely and be doctor protected the entire game.

Since the 1-Shot Bulletproof doesn't actually net town a mislynch by being hit it is not actually specifically valuable for it to bait the hit.
This does come at the cost of narrowing down the game possibilities for scum: but I believe that the reward is well worth the price.

Subject: Newbie 1775 | URW 2 | Endgame

So, what SPECIFICALLY am I asking everyone in the game to do?
I am going to start a popcorn order. I am going to go ahead and claim that I am

Not a 1-Shot Bulletproof.

I am going to popcorn on to Drixx.

For the newbies, if your role is 1-Shot Bulletproof you will out as such. If we do not have one, I will explain where we go from there.

Subject: Newbie 1779 | Spring | Endgame

I am going to claim Not 1-Shot Bulletproof.

When you see this post, you are going to respond by either saying

1) I am 1-Shot Bulletproof
OR
2) I am NOT 1-Shot Bulletproof

That means if you are Doctor, Jailkeeper, Tracker, Cop, or VT, you are not 1-shot Bulletproof.

[JaeReed]

Icibalus seems like he just wants to sheep osuka. Mos to your posts are just really reminiscent of whatever opinion he has.

Why do you scumread NTRP more than Icibalus?

[JaeReed]

im not.....i wanted to get out of rvs so i figured we could get a reaction if we pressured there

ftr i have a slight townlean on osuka but cant discuss why bcuz rules

If you have a townlean on osuka then you should move your vote.

There is nothing to be gained by voting a townread over a scumread or null read. Your vote is your intent to lynch.

[JaeReed]

I'm kinda-sorta around.
But I'm also about to play Cook, Serve, Delicious... soooo...
I guess I can ask why you scumread me, if you want a reason to post.

[JaeReed]

You need to remove the osuka quote from your signature as this is an ongoing game. You can put it in there after the game is over.

Do you not have any scumreads, then?

[JaeReed]

wait seriously. im gonna forget to put it back in. SOMEONE REMIND MENPIST GAME.

why tf would i have scumreads its RVS

We're out of RVS.
I'll remind you.

fixed it i think

btw jae u got scumreads?

Tentatively.
I'm more confident in a townread I'm holding back rn though.
Would prefer the 1-s bp claims to be done before I out my reads. Hoping to have more confidence in them by that stage.

[JaeReed]

I count being out of RVS as there being game related content.
Also some people get reads off of people making one post. Or even off no posts (mastina is someone that comes to mind here).

That said, people exit RVS at different stages so I shouldn't be all "we're done with that now" just because I am out of it, sorry.

The moment a serious looking vote or read is stated is when I consider is out of RVS.

[JaeReed]

Based on their posts I'm gutreadding Maddatters as town.

You're welcome.

I'm not.

Can you attempt to pinpoint what you like about Madtatters? Is it tone, line of questioning, interactions, the scumread on Ciara, or something else?

Please answer this.

[JaeReed]

Can you quote two or three posts that make you feel that way, please?

[JaeReed]

And what about the tone? Even if it's just "I feel like mafia would feel x here instead of what I think is in this post" that would be helpful.

[JaeReed]

@Madattters this is RVS, none of the votes are meant to be serious.

The idea is to kickstart discussions quickly.

Now then, I think we should start. Who do you think is scummy and why?

Ciara24 has been pretty quiet. I don't know if that's just me, but they're the only one who hasn't posted. I would assume that everybody would post at least once to get their name up there, even if they're not necessarily going to contribute to the conversation. I feel like Ciara's seeming pretty scummy to me.

This post in paticular.

I doubt that scum would be that... careless when it comes to putting groundwork for a mislynch, even if it's a Newbie game.

This is actually exactly how I expect newbscum to go after a mislynch.
A push on activity is incredibly easy. It's "safe".

[JaeReed]

madtatters
ciara24
man with a plan
hi im yakko

You all need to claim BP/Not BP.

[JaeReed]

NTRP, it has been 3 days since the game has started. The deadline is 14 days.
D1 in a newbie the sweet spot is around 20 pages. We are making decent progress on that front.
Some players V/LA over the weekend due to housework/family time.

[JaeReed]

NTRP is my strongest townread. The statement was LAMIST, yeah, but town can often be that way. Ultimately I don't feel as though NTRP is making an empty statement for towncred there.

[JaeReed]

If there is a bulletproof claim, there are three roles that can counterclaim it - bulletproof, cop, and doctor.

If you are the real bulletproof or a cop, the correct way to counter a fake bulletproof claim is simply to say, "I counterclaim.", regardless of which of those two you are.

If you are a doctor, wait until everyone else has refused to counterclaim before you speak up! Ideally, the cop will counterclaim and you can stay in the shadows protecting them.

[JaeReed]

Vote: Man with a Plan

[JaeReed]

Madtatters comes across to me as victimized atm. I feel like I see that tone more often from town wrongly pushed. Yakko,

Paul,

what do you guys think?

Contrast Man with a Plan's ISO I kinda feel like that could be scum active lurking. She doesn't seem to be unaware of the gamestate so I doubt it's because of being behind.

pedit: oh I guess scratch the question to Paul

[JaeReed]

Vote: Man with a Plan

is this the scumread u were talking about?

Actually earlier in the game I had doctorpepper as my strongest townread and yakko as my strongest scumread.
That changed to you being my strongest townread, and I'm fine with having Yakko as all but confirmed town after the claim. Next lowest was tatters but as I said, victimized tone feels townie.

[JaeReed]

Ciara, Man with a Plan
for who hasn't answered the BP/not BP question. It's not strictly necessary now that we have a BP claim though. It's all just down to whether anyone CC's the claim.
If they are BP, cop or doc the correct way to counter the claim is just "I CC" as then scum doesn't know what they are if they're town.
But I think Yakko is just more likely our BP here.

[JaeReed]

What do you think about my point on Man with a Plan? Care to join me voting there?

Also, what are your thoughts on Icibalus? 147 gives me a kneejerk reaction but I'm not sure if it's scummy so much as just weird with a playstyle clash.

[JaeReed]

You had DP as your strongest town read. Hmmmmmmm why?

I liked his RVS post the most.

[JaeReed]

Yup!
I love my RVS reads. I'm not married to them, though.

DoctorPepper was because it was a strong RVS vote + joke where he felt natural overall. Didn't give off a vibe of being particularly worried about how to approach the game, if that makes sense? I also liked his 66 because it felt as though he was paying attention to scum indicators like potential buddying and difficulty in producing original content. Minor point there against that is not switching his vote from RVS, though that could be a personality trait that I've been meaning to do a meta dive to get a better feel for when I can. Some people prefer to use their vote sparingly when they're more sure on something, where others like to throw it around a lot.

The more Paul posted the more I moved him up because it seemed incredibly genuine and free-flowing in a manner that I don't think he could pull off as scum just yet, especially so in the pushing for content and constant posting. It just really feels like something he wouldn't be able to pull off as fluidly as he has done so far as newbscum.

I also tentatively liked the way you drew attention to your scum game in RVS and immediately got into a back and forth shitposting fest with Paul, as I feel like either of you being scum in that situation might be a little wary of the other. Felt very much like a T/T interaction, but as I said, shit posters are my weakness. I'm aware of that enough to temper it for a while. I've really liked your interactions with madtatters, though. Doesn't feel like a scum push.

[JaeReed]

osuka, what do you think of my point about Man with a Plan clearly following the events of the game yet not contributing in any substantial manner?

[JaeReed]

did you realize your contradiction? I was next gonna ask you about timeline of when your strongest town read changed and why. Ne ways. I dont fully understand your town read on dp but I'm willing to take it at face value. I'm concerned with original posting or lack thereof this game.

That guy called ichi something made the same post as dp. Do you believe him? That his site ToS "meme" a lot?
In context he said lets get serious then started joking around you think this scum behaviour?

Finally do you think one of the players attaching themselves to you is scum? I think if there is one it might be osuka

Not sure what you mean by contradiction? Did my elaboration clear up the timeline thing for you?
The town read has been weakening. My initial reads can either solidify or change entirely based on someone's follow up posting.

I don't townread him. His RVS was overstated and he was self-conscious about it on top of shadowing a joke made before.
I've heard that ToS is considered a bad site. IIRC it's the one that has focus mostly on night play with a lot of PRs? I don't think him talking about his time there is particularly AI, and I don't see a reason for him to lie about what his homesite is like when it's something he has openly given a name for so that anyone can check up on it if they wish.
I don't particularly think saying you'll get serious then joking is scum behaviour in a vacuum. It depends on the motivation for doing so. He didn't run with things and shit up the thread for pages to make it unbearable to read, and continued to provide content regarding madtatters even while he was joking with osuka, so that particular point I believe is null.
That said, I didn't like the townread on madtatters. That kind of easy townread on something that isn't particularly town indicative could be indicative of too much information, pointing to Ici being scum (basically, he knows madtatters is town so he could see the town in him a lot sooner than we could).

Who do you believe is attaching themselves to me? I think osuka and Paul are both town, but I don't particularly feel like any interactions from them to me have been buddying in general, let alone in a scum manner (at least up to the point of the post I'm responding to. Paul's jiving with me now but it's town synergy fmpov).
Man with a Plan's post responding to my initial suspicion of Madtatters pinged me because I felt that was potentially scum buddying me.
DoctorPepper's townread on me for pushing the BP claim strat similarly pinged me, since it's a weak reason for a townread on me, but I'm taking a wait and see approach with his future content and want to review a game where I replaced him a year or so ago to see if he often has moony reads like that.

[JaeReed]

tbh im kinda mindmelding with jae rn.

although idk about osuka's reverse on tatters. very go with the flow type thing.

jae whatvha think?

I think osuka is townreading you and his opinion is very likely influenced by that.
When you townread someone and they feel your scumread is probably town along with the general thread consensus beginning to flow away from the person you scumread, it is very hard to not question whether your scumread is wrong.

I also don't get the same feeling from osuka as I had while reading your prior game where he was scum with Mjoll. At least up until he posted the train stuff on the ThinkBig lynch, I was scumreading him and I just... don't get the same feeling here. That kind of reading is fairly weak, though. Your experience trumps mine as a spectator for one, since you actually played vs him.
I still believe my original thoughts about his back and forth with you in RVS holds as I think a scum!osuka would be worried you'd be able to identify him coming fresh from that game.

[JaeReed]

Does the thing speak for itself here? Were you blinded by their charm of worming their way up your poop hole? The weird thing is you seem to be enjoying it. Maybe I'm being paranoid. I feel like their is something off about you Jae.

I reached out to my townreads to join the wagon I think is most likely to flip scum and they joined me. Basically, we have a townblock.
If anything, as osuka said, him and Paul should be concerned about me buddying them.
It frequently happens that town will mutually townread each other and block together like that. If you have a solid foundation then it helps immensely to narrow down the game via process of elimination. I'm quite a fan of townblocks, though as you're demonstrating, some people can become paranoid of them.

Doctor pepper doesn't make sense as town to me either; this is a seperate issue timeline wise you said someone else was your strongest town read: ntrp. Iirc. then a page ago said doctorpeper was your strongest town read. then you made a huge post backtracking what you said and saying oh wait he isn't my strongest town read.

Oh. I see the confusion here now.
When I said DP was my strongest town read it was in response to Paul asking me in 165 about a response I gave him to a question from earlier in the game, at 85.
If you'll note, I even specified in the post you're thinking of (167) that it was earlier in game I held the read, rather than at that point in time. I hope that helps.

[JaeReed]

@jae i only played for a but b4 i replaced out. didnt even read entire game/keep up with it so my experience isnt realky much.

i dont like osuka shifting with the tide but it doesnt seem like scum!osuka from before. im townleaning him atm but thats open to change.

Currently my reads are looking something like this:

{hi im Yakko}
{NotTheRealPaul}
{osuka}
{DoctorPepper, Madtatters}
{Ciara24}
{Man With a Plan, Icibalus}

I am hoping that with some more posting from everyone below osuka we can sort things.
I'm not completely without paranoia on osuka, but I do believe him to be more likely town than not to the extent that I wouldn't entertain a day one lynch on him. I figure if he's scum then that will best be seen from D2 looking back on this day phase. I know that I am prone to buddying, I just don't think that's what is going on here. Especially as osuka isn't trying to direct me in any particular way, which is how I find most scum like to use my townread on them if I have the read wrong.
Madtatters I still have paranoia over, especially as she's now going to fall off the grid after I defended her, but she said it was for real life reasons and it's poor form to throw doubt on real life factors - it's better to just assume that regardless of alignment those real life things are not likely to be a lie - so I'm willing to wait and see more from her when she's able to post more again.
I've already talked a bit about my current read on DoctorPepper.
Ciara is a large null spot so I am looking forward to the promised content from that slot!
Man With a Plan and Icibalus are my best guesses for scum right now, and I've gone into that a bit.

My higher confidence reads are the top three tiers. Everything else still has a lot more fluidity to it. Is there any read in particular you'd like to be able to bounce back and forth with thoughts on?

[JaeReed]

that said i mostly agree with ur readlist. Althought what about yalkko puts him so high on the list? i dont really have much if a read on him rn. I wasnt really a fan of his dp vote tbh.

He claimed 1-shot bulletproof.
Barring a counterclaim, he is as close to confirmed town as we can get currently.

[JaeReed]

lol.

Well I don't particularly need real time interaction from you, more just wanting to sort the rest of the slots and hoping you had thoughts on anything I might have missed. It's just a bit hard without them posting.

[JaeReed]

VOTE: doctorpepper

Regardless of MWAP's alignment this is probably scum.

Not good enough for this stage of the game.

[JaeReed]

Not enough information in the day. I want to reread this weekend and try to generate some content again. Not happy with it being half the length I like to aim for but work has been full on.
3 day weekend though so...

[JaeReed]

@mwap regardless of alignment you shouldn't make posts like that. If you're town you're muddying the waters for your fellow townies, and if you're scum you're claiming scum. Neither alignment does that work toward your win condition.

Do you have any reads?

[JaeReed]

Yeah I'm really happy with my vote being on DP.
He's not even trying to read for alignment.
What's the scum motivation in MWAP making that comment? It's more likely a gambit for reactions, which while bad play, is more likely to come from town who feels the need to get something more tangible going to get reads off of. (inb4 mwap flips scum and I look like a fool)

[JaeReed]

>

Please be respectful of all other players as well as myself. I am fragile.

Can we chill on the personal attacks, please?

MWAP do you have any reads?

[JaeReed]

Will be here later tonight. Need to reread while I think on who makes that shot.

[JaeReed]

this is bullshit

i have no comment on it other than that it is bullshit because the three posts he quotes aren't incriminating whatsoever

It's especially bullshit in that most scumslips aren't actually that, and pushing someone on a "scumslip" is a scum tell that has a decent amount of accuracy I think depending on a person's personality. I don't have a good enough hold on aphix's personality to know if he'd push that regardless of alignment, though. I need to try to factor that in to my reread. Bleh.

[JaeReed]

I know I just set myself up for this but fuckit.
I like DP's reaction there a fucking lot.
I know I already stated my thoughts on it and that just makes me like it even more because he doesn't give a shit about whether he comes across as buddying me.

[JaeReed]

I'm actually more tempted to do it now that you threatened to take it badly

LOL same.
But I'm the IC so I can't be a shitter.

I do want the hammer to hold off. Weekend is coming up and I'll be around a bit more then and hopefully be able to decide if this is a lynch I want or whether there's someone I'd prefer to go through and try to build up a cw on and case. If someone could unvote for that purpose for me that'd be ace.

@Skitter I haven't had as much time as I would have liked to read your posts but from what I can glean it feels like you're assuming that scum wouldn't bus here. Can you expand on why you think that, please?

[JaeReed]

Sorry, I wanted to go over everything here over the weekend but tbh my mental state took a dive and I didn't.

Are there any specific questions for me?

[JaeReed]

Ciara can you outline for me what you find sus about aphix's recent posts please? I might be an absolute sucker but I kinda read his attitude as townish right now.
As scum here he needs to appeal to others in order to survive this day phase and he's...not really doing that? Basically; I think his posting supports a town motivation more than a scum one right now. It's possible he's angry at being caught for the wrong reasons but I really don't get that? The anger and aggression seems pointed in a manner where he's still seemingly attempting to gamesolve to me.

[JaeReed]

VOTE: Paul

This is scum, unfortunately. Sorry Paul

You don't sound so apologetic

. Not really seeing the scum here.

What are you implying with the bolded?

[JaeReed]

Also, NTRP, why vote Jae if you want the set up to be broken? Isn't asking the BP to claim something that satisfied that? Jae is pretty townie to me because of the BP discussion. I doubt scum would do that

DP, I replaced you in a game where you refused to claim BP after the JK flipped on D2 when RC!scum was pushing for the BP to claim. Why did you think I was townie and that scum wouldn't do that, given that game? :/

[JaeReed]

^ What was the point to that post? I'm not entirely sure what you're even responding to here.

[JaeReed]

NTRP, you haven't asked me any actual questions. No idea what you want from me here.
Are you scum is literally going to net you the same response regardless of my alignment.
If you have a real question, I'll answer.

[JaeReed]

He pushed for it after the JK flip. I guess I'm just a little wary that was a lazy read in order to attempt to buddy me.

[JaeReed]

DP, could you point me to the posts where you suspect aphix again, please? I want to review that when I get home as well as his reaction to his wagon.

[JaeReed]

JaeReed ... I was responding to the post that you qouted where DP says you are town because of the BP claiming. I'm not engaging you with it, clearly by your response you also agree it's not alignment indicative. So I don't see what your issue with is with my post ......

My post wasn't about whether it was AI but DP's discrepancy in his stance between that game and this game. So more poking at his mindset than anything.

[JaeReed]

@Jae: I kinda feel like you're ignoring the me/Paul/aphix thing. The only stance you've given on the topic is that Aphix is townish because he's being stubborn and doesn't seem to be trying to appeal to others to get out of the lynch. I kinda feel like you're avoiding talking about Paul; the only time you've talked to him or about this entire day is when you said you weren't sure what he was looking for when he asked you if you are scum. I'm also not sure why you're bringing up the 'is-BP-talk-AI-or-not' convo at this time.

uhh gonna break this up a bit to respond.
1) Not ignoring but I have a lot of thoughts regarding this right now that I'm not certain how to put into words.
2) Still think aphix is townish for that and I don't particularly feel like he's discouraging content.
3) Yes, I'm avoiding talking about Paul. That ties into the "not certain how to put into words" bit.
4) Wasn't about whether the BP talk is AI so much as whether DP could believe it was when he scumread RC in a previous game for pushing the claim. He's right that the situations were different though, so meh.

[JaeReed]

@Ciara I think he's scumhunting in all of these despite the tone of the posts. His attitude is bad, yeah, but that doesn't make someone scum.

Spoiler:

lack of counterwagon, speed of a wagon, etc dont make it bad

bad reasoning makes a bad wagon imo. aphix coulda dodged this shit had he answered first time i asked but now its l-1 and has yet to answer.

Also this ... So I should be lynched for not answering his stupid ass question that has an obvious answer is the reason I'm being lynched? Also, I haven't yet to answer ? Which I already answered at this point .... Clear signs of scum not reading the game.

Also, because who knows what is going to happen once I go to sleep here, you guys are crazy, also because I'm sure I'll get lynch after saying this. I'm only like 70-80% sure on NTRP, but this won't be the first time I've seen scum and people have ignored me. I'd honestly still much rather lynch Jae today. He continues I swear to actively not get on anyones radars, not make a stance, not upset the game all. he's not doing anything to scum hunt or further a town agenda.

Pretty sure tatters is just VI ... I mean, scum are going to take him to end game if he is town as that's just easy mislynch right there.

in an universe where aphix flips town i'm willing to reconsider paul yes

you've made a good case but i'm confident that aphix will flip scum and i'm stubborn enough that i'd take my reads over yours any day. I hope i'm not fucking up here but if I am i'm sorry

Well, good thing is osuka is probtown, I don't see scum playing "aphix is clearly scum" this well at all, and I've seen it a lot.

Huh again. Still super glad that the only time NTRP wants to even attempt to make a stance on his own is on me, because it looks like a safe place for him. Which at least a few other town members are stupid enough to go with it.

Tatters wants to distance from a. Town lunch.

Well, lets see, look at my iso for who I think is scum and why. I've made it clear. Most the game has spent the day talking about why I'm scum for bullshit reasons and doing fuck all else. Saying my game was shit osuka? At least I got you guys talking abit before you fucks decided to go back to circle jerking, which was pretty much my only goal today. If you are so sold on my being scum and think I should be lynched this early in the day, maybe spend the rest of the day figuring out who my partner is but most importantly who's scum when I actually flip town.

Instead, you rail about bullshit. Maybe the site meta has shifted but if any of the reasons for me being scum is common to how this site is played now this site has gone downhill fast, I could find as good of play if I logged into ToS.

We also have our wonderful IC, who hasn't done anything in the game so far, GIANT red flag. He continues to do shit all. And even refuses to read the game. The fact that he's announcing it doesn't make it any better. It just makes me think he knows what he is doing is shit and trying to get you guys to buy into it. Guess what, all those who think Jae is town have, and continue to. If he is down ... It's not acceptable and you should be calling him on his shit as he isn't helping this game from any angle.

NTRP continue push on me is awful. I'm still pretty sold on the fact that he says MWAP is definitely going to flip scum but then when it talked about it today, MWAP was just being stupid town .... If you thought he was stupid town why try and push it as a scum slip instead of a mislynch? Why, because the scumslip call out was a mistake and if he continued that discussion it'd look bad.

okay i wanna know something. if someone srs u and ur town are u supposed to not discredit them? like am i supposed to prop u up so that i get lynched? like should i say ur reads are good? like dafuq do u want?

This right here I think conveys another aspect of what I haven't liked about NTRP. Thing is ... If he's conf town. No you don't try and descredit him. Does that mean his reads are god reads? No. You don't put him on a pedestal, but you also don't try and descredit him because he SRs you, there should be some sort of attempt to work with him, because you know he's town. Some sort of attempt to actually prove something to him. This immediate knee jerk reaction of OMG he SRs me so everything he says is wrong is just ... an over reaction, and honestly it seems forced like he's trying to do something unreasonable for town cred or something.

Why Tatters. Why am I scum? Maybe some posts with reasons why I'm scummy. Also, why is Osuka town? What about a vote on mwap made him go from scum to town for you?!? WHY?

[JaeReed]

VOTE: Paul

w/e

[JaeReed]

aphix if ur town get ur head out your ass. ty

[JaeReed]

Paul's pretty much the only one I think could be shooting for bp, basically. He'd feel secure enough in not being caught making the kill because he was widely townread.

[JaeReed]

jae's reads changed minute he was voted

aphix went from town trying to gamesolve to maybe town but if yes stupid town.

i went from tred to sred correct me if im wrong but jae hasnt talked about me since his last readlist rlly. and i was a top tr there...

as far as nokikl ya scum!me prob does it. *shruuuuuuug* no point lying there if im scum id nokill there. esp with skitters replace in cuz id prob assume skitters will tr me and i can ez pocket/warlock

What?
I've avoided talking about you because I've been wondering if you're scum from the no kill.

My read on aphix never changed. Just because he's trying to gamesolve doesn't mean he's any good at it.

[JaeReed]

ebwop just continuing there ya nokill makes a lot of sense too bcuz skitters is alos most experienced with me so if the pocketing dont work i can shoot later.

ithat was a fun hypo tho. stupid to pursue more. tbh tho u could say the same for hae. i dont think anyone sred jae end of d1 and obviously experienced to understanding why one woukd no kill and shoot bp (im assuming bp was shot.

imo jk existing and actually protecting is slim but technically thats possible too

).

If I were scum in tracker setup I'd aim to kill the tracker.
If I were scum in jk setup I'd aim to rb the jk and kill someone that has sway over the game, is unlikely to townread me or could flip at a moment's notice, or would make me look good on the flip (tatters, Paul, or osuka, with Paul being less likely of a kill).

You needed no information given into this day and were confident you wouldn't be fucked by night actions.
The bolded is too much knowledge on the setup slipping through imo.

[JaeReed]

@Jae/Paul: I'm assuming that it wasn't a no-kill, but that I got shot last night. I believe that scum!Paul shoots me always there, even if I weren't BP.

I believe that scum!Paul shoots you because you're BP.
That's it.
It's a 0 information shot unless he's tracked, basically.

In a JK world it's no info because it could be protecting from the kill or because it's a bp shot.
In a tracker world it's even more damning because he's the only one who could be certain he wouldn't be tracked by pretty much anyone and the bp show would give 0 information to the rest of the game.

Who makes a shot that has zero risk yet zero gain?
Someone who is satisfied with their position in the game.
Therefore, paul.

[JaeReed]

UNVOTE:
don't think that comes from scum, don't think it's a scum gambit.
paul I'm town and pushing my lynch is a waste of time.

[JaeReed]

VOTE: Madtatters
Don't know where I stand so just voting who I don't want in lylo at this stage.

[JaeReed]

dude i am this close to not even giving a shit and just voting you.

[JaeReed]

yeah see
you're criticizing my play but I see nothing stellar from you, so I'm not really inclined to listen. All you're doing is pissing ppl off.

[JaeReed]

I was scumhunting early on.
I've been thinking about my reads all fucking d2 while working and shit. Like, come on man

[JaeReed]

I'm even putting off a date with my gf to be here and argue this shit.

[JaeReed]

Jae I have no clue who ur talking too. Like plz address the person. I get work gets in the way it was still unexpected bcuz u were neutral on me and aphix (i think) and super tring me d1 and then boom im sred.

I was talking to aphix since he has had a problem with me all game /shrug

my thing about you is entirely related to the nk that made me second guess my individual read on you - i'm over that tho.

[JaeReed]

@aphix: u know the funny thing is if this is tvt we are all fucking retards

I think there's a non zero chance that all of us are town yea

[JaeReed]

At the same time though when they kinda jump from wagon to wagon and are super sheepy.

this is the main reason I don't want tatters in lylo. I'm lacking in a confident scumread but if all else fails I think trying to aim for a weaker read that might be scum, might be town but will probably not be good to have in lylo is a non shit lynch

[JaeReed]

Okay. So first Paul says there is a no kill. Now skitters most likely dying tonight means he has to change plans.im still telling you all there is a shit all disconnect between yesterday's thoughts and today's on the policy lynch yesterday. Even throw in the I guess I'll lynch myself then the added outrage of fuck that it's a horrible plan. Like you can't make this stuff up.

I don't think scum plays like that.

[JaeReed]

Like,this is a freaking awful vote on someone who I'm sure you know quite well is never getting lynched today. Do you really think you can get Tatters lynched in the next 48 hours? That's not a thing that's happening in this gamestate. This vote is a copout and you're basically avoiding giving a stance on any of the major wagons.

Yes, actually!
Flashwagons are a thing!

[JaeReed]

I agree with Osuka here. MWAP, you've barely posted at all, and the posting you've done is the past 48 hr is being evident of gamethrowing. We'd rather you just stop playing and have the mods replace you with someone who does or actually play. I didn't really have a reason to vote.

Thanks for elaborating, Osuka. I with you on this one.

VOTE: ManWithAPlan

Guys
This is not the vote of
Someone
Who didn't know MWAP was town.

[JaeReed]

I didn't like the MWAP push in 166, it being mostly based on active lurking is weird considering JaeReed's earlier stance that activity is not alignment indicative.

Active lurking is very very very different from just not being around.

[JaeReed]

287 towards the end of the day is an example of that. There was a lot of momentum for the MWAP lynch at that point and JaeReed seemed to be townreading him.

Was still thinking through MWAP's alignment and didn't like the bs policy lynch thing nor the lazy votes.

[JaeReed]

You said in 195 that Osuka seemed different to how he played in a scumgame of his you were reading. Can you explain what this difference is? I don't understand the basis behind your Osuka townread in the first place. Can you talk about what you mean when you say that he "isn't trying to direct you in any particular way?"

Not...really? Sorry I know that isn't the ideal response but the game in question is here:
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=72479

[JaeReed]

I don't understand why Paul is a scumread based on the no kill. Shooting the BP is the optimal move for scum because it doesn't change the number of mislynches they need to win, and by taking away the bulletproof they have the freedom to get rid of a conf-town later on if they feel the need to. Shooting elsewhere would be a risk since scum might be shooting a potential mislynch and get POE'd more easily if the confirmed town makes it too far into the game. So, I'd expect anyone to take that shot. I also think it's weird that you were townreading Paul all along until skitter replaced in and started attacking him, and then there's a "vote: Paul, w/e" tone of resignation and then a weird justification for the vote later. Can you go over how your Paul read developed and why the resigned tone?

Two other problems with your nightkill logic: Firstly, Osuka was widely townread as well so it could just as well apply to him as Paul. Secondly, there are two scum so their nightkill would be determined by what benefits both of them so just picking out Paul on the basis of "widely townread player making a no-info kill" seems weird at this point.

We're either in a situation with a JK or Tracker given the BP claim.
The other PR and mafia know which setup we're in.

Ask yourself why mafia didn't shoot for the other PR.
Like I was thinking on the kill all fucking day before finally voting Paul over it. Pretty sure I made a comment about it and how I needed to think on it.

[JaeReed]

The other PR didn't claim so you're assuming that mafia know who the other PR is. If they take that gamble and end up shooting a VT, that makes the game much harder for them than just playing it safe and removing the bulletproof from the 1-shot BP. I saw your comment about the kill and your point could be semi-valid if there was a lone scum remaining. But there are two scum so I'm not sure why you are assuming that one of them has to be townread and that it is Paul. Why couldn't Madtatters or DoctorPepper or Aphix make that kill for instance.

On re-read, I noticed that MadTatters quickhammered so you probably didn't have that much time between when MWAP was at L-1 and hammer but why not make a stronger effort to stall the wagon while you figure stuff out or talk to Paul who you were townreading and who was pushing the MWAP wagon the hardest?

Is your read reversal on DoctorPepper based solely on him voting Aphix after Aphix said that Paul scumslipped?

That's just it!!! The other PR hadn't claimed! So the kill was going to be made either aiming for the other PR or BY SOMEONE SURE THEY WOULDN'T BE A SUSPECT AND FELT SAFE MAKING A NO INFO BP SHOT.
Madtatters or aphix probably wouldn't have made that kill because they'd be afraid of being tracked/aggressively jked. They weren't in especially townie looking slots.
DP

could

have, but it's still a pretty ballsy move over PR hunting the other PR and trying to kill them. Especially after I was on him for the vote on MWAP.

Paul was pushing the wagon the hardest... why the fuck would he listen to me? People wanted their policy lynch. Is it shit? Absolutely. But when people want blood that hard what the fuck do you expect me to do about it except for try to point out who I think is being an opportunistic fuck about it? I do have a life, you know. -.-

Pretty much, yeah.

[JaeReed]

One more thing, you are essentially voting Madtatters because you don't want him in lylo. How is that so different than lynching MWAP because he was a destructive to the game and him being alive would be more detrimental to town than just lynching him? Both are essentially "get rid of a distraction moving forward" but you were calling BS on the MWAP lynch while advocating for the Madtatters lynch.

Is it normal for you to not have strong scumreads?

Madtatters isn't a "get rid of a distraction moving forward" vote.
It's a "this could be mafia but more importantly is very likely to vote confirmed town in lylo" vote.
I consider those two different.

Eh, it depends on the game.

[JaeReed]

If you can, give me your best shot at explaining the Osuka townread because that's the one read I think would be most helpful for getting a read on both you and him.

It's hard to explain a read I'm not sure on anymore though.
Like
At the time I thought osuka would be trying to direct the flow of the game more as scum following his recent victory? idunno
If I dont' feel as strongly about a read anymore I tend to forget those feelings around it so I can't really explain it anymore.

[JaeReed]

Urgh I'll try but I actually can barely remember my games atm.

Because ime ppl who push on scumslips that aren't actually slips are usually scum. < this with the caveat that some town are prone to push on "scumslips" too (MathBlade would be one of those ppl off the top of my head)

[JaeReed]

Ehhhnnn the most memorable "down to poe" game I remember is like, back when I was a newb so I don't think that's one you want since I assume more recent would be of more help.
Best I can really give you is a game where I checked out after initially starting with a strong push and then needed help getting back into the game til I got a strong tr, and in exchange got strong enough srs to push them. viewtopic.php?f=50&t=68000
Uhhh I have a game where I kinda sucked and just sorta tried to keep my trs from killing each other iirc. viewtopic.php?f=50&t=69290
And a game where I just sheeped D1 basically and picked up after that due to role related reasons. viewtopic.php?f=53&t=68870

Don't think any of those will actually be much help but eh. Maybe the last one will be.

[JaeReed]

I still don't get why DoctorPepper's vote on Aphix was so town that it erased all your previous concerns with him being an "opportunistic fuck" about the MWAP lynch. Aphix said Paul scumslipped. Osuka called it bullshit. You agreed and called it even more bullshit. Then DoctorPepper voted Aphix. It was a ridiculously safe vote.

To clarify on this - it wasn't "so town" so much as I didn't think aphix and dp would be scum together there.
But eh you're right in that it was a safe vote. I'd be willing to lynch DP.

[JaeReed]

Because I forgot, tbh. I was meaning to go back and reread the lynch there but I've just had...better things to do. Work, more fun games than this, time with my gf (which got cut down on from what I was used to because of work picking up).

[JaeReed]

One more thing, you are essentially voting Madtatters because you don't want him in lylo. How is that so different than lynching MWAP because he was a destructive to the game and him being alive would be more detrimental to town than just lynching him? Both are essentially "get rid of a distraction moving forward" but you were calling BS on the MWAP lynch while advocating for the Madtatters lynch.

Is it normal for you to not have strong scumreads?

Madtatters isn't a "get rid of a distraction moving forward" vote.
It's a "this could be mafia but more importantly is very likely to vote confirmed town in lylo" vote.
I consider those two different.

Eh, it depends on the game.

4 player mylo tomorrow assuming we lynch wrong. Even if they are voting for conf town, who could possibly die tonight, then this whole assumption goes to shit.

Not at all.
There's two prs.
And mylo requires all alive town to vote scum to lynch scum. (So you'd no lynch btw, without talking, but assuming we don't...)
If he's town voteparking on town then we've lost because we can't lynch scum without scum.

Now if we do no lynch into lylo then I still think tatters is more likely to vote town there than not.

[JaeReed]

But making the argument about it being mylo actually makes it worse.

[JaeReed]

I don't have one beyond "paul had a town reaction to being on the chopping block and so did aphix. I have no idea where to go so let's do a liability lynch." I'm fine doing dp if you'd rather that. Unless you're going to make a case for someone else.

Pedit: this is getting really frustrating. I feel like I've given a stance. I think they're both town.

[JaeReed]

The smart scum thing to do would be to lie lowand let the townies fight amongst themselves, not actively go against the flow and say something like that.

Please explain how this isn't what you're doing.

[JaeReed]

'let's hold off the lynch for a bit but i don't know why scum wouldn't be bussing here' (this is the bit that I find incredibly strange because I literally don't see a reason why scum *would* be bussing there and you never responded to this when I said that)

uhh remind me where I said this please? hard to remember this without context but I remember thinking that scum HAD to be on that wagon at one point.

[JaeReed]

Like, nothing here seems natural. It all seems kinda disingenuous. The things you're doing don't seem to match your reads or your stances, and your reads just kinda change and I'm not really seeing why.

I mean my read on Paul was up in the air after the nightkill for the reasons I eventually shared where I was thinking about the stuff about PRs and nk choice.

[JaeReed]

If Jae flipped town I would look at you more.

Also this was @BV and I want to ask why you have this view because I think BV is pretty town.

[JaeReed]

'let's hold off the lynch for a bit but i don't know why scum wouldn't be bussing here' (this is the bit that I find incredibly strange because I literally don't see a reason why scum *would* be bussing there and you never responded to this when I said that)

uhh remind me where I said this please? hard to remember this without context but I remember thinking that scum HAD to be on that wagon at one point.

@Skitter I haven't had as much time as I would have liked to read your posts but from what I can glean it feels like you're assuming that scum wouldn't bus here. Can you expand on why you think that, please?

Why would scum be bussing here? There's a perfectly viable counterwagon. Why would they not hop onto that? He hasn't done anything to warrant being wagoned that quickly. It's not like scum!Aphix's partner absolutely needs to distance from some awful team-incriminating slip he made or something. I see literally no reason for them to bus him here if they can just hop onto the counterwagon I'm pushing. What do they gain from it? They're losing one half of a two-member team for . . . what exactly?

Oh, that wasn't me saying scum are bussing so much as trying to understand your thoughts so I could make a ruling myself on that.

[JaeReed]

Like, nothing here seems natural. It all seems kinda disingenuous. The things you're doing don't seem to match your reads or your stances, and your reads just kinda change and I'm not really seeing why.

I mean my read on Paul was up in the air after the nightkill for the reasons I eventually shared where I was thinking about the stuff about PRs and nk choice.

I know. From my POV, it looks like you avoided talking to/about him for the first part of the day, and again, the temporary scumread was based solely on nk choice and not on anything he said/did at any point throughout the day. It felt like you were ignoring the major topic at hand.

All my thoughts revolved around "who makes that nightkill here?" so in a way - yes, I was ignoring what you considered a major topic. I was more focused on something that I considered more important.

[JaeReed]

If I'm wrong about you, I have to reevaluate who makes sense there, and the fact that BV came into the game targetting town!you would make me suspect him more than anyone else then.

I think this isn't a very strong point. Town can be wrong, and considering you suspect me I have to assume town have valid reasons to suspect me, and BV has laid out those reasons and I don't think he's being particularly disingenuous about his read here.
What are your reads if Paul is town here? I think you're focusing a lot on a Paul!scum world, which is great if he is scum, but if he's town I feel like you've spent too much time tunneling on one worldview and would rather have your thoughts there in the open before the next day phase.
Why is osuka or tatters not suspect if I flip town?

[JaeReed]

Ok, what do you have in the case of both myself and Paul being town?

[JaeReed]

If DP were scum who is most likely his partner?
Why do you have trouble seeing tatters with anyone? Specially Aphix/DP.

[JaeReed]

Somewhere in tatters/DP. Outside chance of osuka. If I'm wrong on a tr I think it's more likely aphix than paul, think Paul's reaction to his wagon is less likely something he could fake as scum.
BV I would have as my strongest tr for reasons.

BV, skitter
Paul
Aphix, osuka
Tatters
DP

Reads are something like that atm.

[JaeReed]

I don't have a strong enough read/feel for DP or tatters in this game to give strong opinions on them. They're both somewhere around null because I don't feel confident on my read of the two of them, and they haven't interacted enough with like half the game for me to try to map the relationships. That's why I can't see tatters with like anyone, because she hasn't really interacted with anyone, so I can't really explain how my reads are affected in different scenarios. I don't have enough information to extrapolate what a particular universe would look like.

This is kind of the place I imagine scum would be fine being in.

[JaeReed]

Why is DP your top scumread atm?

Because bv reminded me of what I didn't like about him D1 and I agree with his read of it being an easy vote for scum to make this day on aphix

[JaeReed]

I would be ok with powerlynching osuka.

[JaeReed]

^

[JaeReed]

Er that was meant to be to DP commenting on osuka's catchup.

[JaeReed]

I'm flat out telling you it's a waste of time to vote me.

Pedit Jesus fucking Christ im the tracker. Was really hoping to not have to claim and get away with looking lynchable for tomorrow. -.-
N1 ciara went nowhere

[JaeReed]

VOTE: dp

I don't see much point in crumbing but that's why I was puzzling over the nk in any case because who the fuck risks getting tracked to shoot the bp.
When I linked you games I said the one where I was a tracker might be useful but aside from that I don't really like risking crumbing in an open setup. Should be fairly obvious from how I've treated the entirety of this phase tho

[JaeReed]

And I'm not trying to sort you skitters I'm trying to understand where you're coming from and use your thoughts to help give me some direction because I'm stuck this game.

BV I just decided to treat you as town because more often than not you're town here. I would have sent ciara or tatters to do the kill. When I say I'm stuck I mean it. Arbitrarily treating someone as conftown when I have even a little reason to do so at least helps me bounce thoughts off someone and it makes my result clear if I get night killed.

[JaeReed]

Why were you crumbing a townread on me though? That felt like trying to throw out a crumb at the last second in case you had to claim.

Pedit: The townread on me for "reasons" is a pretty obvious crumb.

You'll see the point where I just decided to treat my result as an inno when I reached out to ciara before you even replaced in.

Tracked ciara n1 because I thought it was unlikely both scum were on the policy lynch wagon.

[JaeReed]

I feel like my whole DP kinda screams PR so I think there's a decent chance scum avoided pushing me for that reason. Only myself and scum knew the setup enough to know there's a reason for me to be wondering wtf was up with the nk there because it's both low info and risking the tracker guilty.

I'm just kind of glad I had indigestion that woke me in time to see the votes. -.- silver lining?

[JaeReed]

Is osuka/paul possible?

[JaeReed]

I get weird vibes from Osuka's ISO because I think he's overreacting to everything. I'm not sure if this is a playstyle thing or if he's trying to fake confidence. 140 and 172 is what I'm talking about. I really dislike 183 as well. It seems like he's trying to make it seem like JaeReed is attaching to himself (Osuka) as opposed to genuinely thinking "Jae could be buddying but I don't think he is." The "if anything I should be wary" phrasing is something I don't like. I'm not sure which post you are talking about skitter where you say he got mad at MWAP. I didn't find any of his end of D1 posting to be a towntell.

Wrt osuka there was a game I think I linked here with a policy lynch on a lurker D1 where he was scum. His shitposting and general interactions with that wagon felt like he thought it was a good wagon and as a spectator I tr him for it. That was what I was referencing with my rvs vote and has me harboring a fair amount of paranoia when someone says osuka's reactions are good because I know he can fake that.

What about viability of osuka/dp here? I think the best way to sort osuka might be through interactions so if we can be sure he's town our chances go up significantly.

Don't like how he was influencing the thread towards me subtly from the catchup posts.

[JaeReed]

Game linked in 735 is what I was talking about. There's a train image there in osuka's iso and I'd just probably read around that area for his scum range surrounding policy mislynches. I'm wary that it's just me being paranoid because I know he has a decent scum game though. Also concerned because I think osuka is a good town player and I think following pushing that policy lynch on ThinkBig in the other game he would have been more cautious of a D1 policy here but he wasn't. He could just be a fan of policy lynches, though.
One thing in his favour is that I think his tonal difference from SUPER AGGRESSION and beating ppl down to here is big enough that I was thinking he might be town here off that alone. It's a small point since I know that can change from game to game but it is one so I might as well air it now that I know I'm dead tonight.

[JaeReed]

One thing in his favour is that I think his tonal difference from SUPER AGGRESSION and beating ppl down to here is big enough that I was thinking he might be town here off that alone. It's a small point since I know that can change from game to game but it is one so I might as well air it now that I know I'm dead tonight.

Can you go over this a bit more. I did get those vibes from the way he attacked Tatters and MWAP (i.e. hyperaggressive tone).

IIRC he got a warning for word choice. I don't wanna go too much into that but you can skim his posts and probably get the jist there. Was constantly berating reads/wagon choices as [redacted] if memory serves.

[JaeReed]

I need to go to work but this is looking good now.
GL finding his partner tomorrow. Don't get suspicious of BV, pretty sure he's just town. You'll have him and skitters to work with.

Also if DP actually were JK then he'd have been pushing me hard for the nk spec, instead I think he avoided pushing me because he realized I was the tracker and already decided to nk me.

[JaeReed]

Good job guys.

[JaeReed]

Last topic that I was a jerk on that'd I'd bring up is the JaeReed thing. I'm still not a fan of ICs lurking. I don't think Jae went against any of the rules for IC or anything, and playing a lurky, kind of scummy game as a power role is a fully solid strategy. I personally feel very strongly that ICs should be more involved with newbie games, that's all.

Eh, I mean ICs aren't supposed to be a perfect example of play, but rather a resource for "this is how the various buttons on the forum works" and general gameplay stuff like waiting for a claim before hammer and such. There was a discussion on this recently because the IC queue was barren and it seemed a lot of people had this opinion that they were supposed to be something more than that and it was putting people off IC'ing. The clarification there that that wasn't the IC's job was the whole reason I inned to IC anyways.

In any case, my inability to explain my Paul read well came from being a reviewer in a game that was running alongside this where he was scum, which I couldn't talk about, obviously. So people were correct in calling out my read of him but it wasn't something I could hint at. Reading his posts in the scum PT there gave me an idea that he probably wouldn't be entirely comfortable as scum yet, which didn't jive with his play here.

My lurkiness in general came from a number of factors, but one of the main ones being that I started work at a second job at the start of this game and was in this adjustment period where I was feeling out the right balance for work/home/play - especially as my time with my gf who is one of my main emotional supports got drastically reduced. For a while there I basically had to choose my emotional wellbeing over the game, yet I was confident enough that once I adjusted I'd be able to get into it more that I didn't feel a need to replace out, and given my role I figured it might be for the best to be seen as mislynchable.

I disagree that I wasn't doing anything, but especially D2 can see why people were thinking that, because I had a lot of my thought process that I couldn't have in the open without claiming, and I'm not very good at doing the smoke and mirrors bullshit that a lot of people seem to be able to do. It was really frustrating to be accused of that when I was putting in a lot of thought into the game.

I'm extremely frustrated that every time I've IC'ed I've rolled a PR though. This is the first game where I managed to not claim it D1 (1st IC game I thought a newbie slipped knowledge of there being a roleblocker in the game after the bp claimed and I was jk, 2nd IC game I got fed up with House pushing on me and no one lynching the hedging scum on our 1v1 so I claimed doc...after the cop had already claimed. We proceeded to lynch the roleblocker which was the hedging scum but that doesn't make the play any better.). I think I did a lot better at not prematurely claiming here, though I wanted to. I still think I accidentally obvPR'ed on D2 with thinking about the nightkill so much. My PR dayplay is definitely one of my weakest points in that I'm not good at hiding it and posting in my usual manner. I can either lurkfuck and hide it until I'm called out for lurking at which point I generally flat claim or I obvPR through my posts (which I did in another newbie I was an SE replacement in alongside this game so rip).

Umm what else. I don't think there's much feedback I can give to the current board because you're all p much better than me anyways and I think you guys have the introspection to be able to identify what you did right/wrong here.

Anyway I'm gonna enjoy a bit of a break from mafia until all the games I was in end I think. I'll be open for hydraing but probably not much else unless I get a direct "hey please come play with me/in my game" and even then idunno because I'm increasingly realizing I don't like the site meta we're in. The fact that people think being nice is a scumtell is something which pretty much sums up what's wrong here.

Oh I guess I can touch on that a bit.
The people saying me being nice = scum probably could have benefited from a meta dive there. Generally if you can search a few games and I'm nice in like half of them then it's probably just personality/game indicative rather than alignment. If you only see me in games as town being an ass but also in my scum games being nice then maybe that was a point to push on, but I think it was morph that said in a prior game when someone pushed me for the same thing, that I apparently am just nice in general or something. I mean I don't think that's accurate per say because I do quite often lose my temper as town and that's when it gets really toxic and gross so I prefer not to, but yeah. idunno, if you're gonna make a push like that I'd suggest checking it's not just personality first?

[JaeReed]

<3

[JaeReed]

48 hour extension is standard for replacements.