Team Mafia 2018: White Flag — Day Six

[Ranmaru]

I will explain thoroughly when I get home.

[Ranmaru]

NSG I would also like to talk when I get home in a few hours. At least listen to what I say and take it to heart since I may die tonight.

[Ranmaru]

Ok will be at a computer in 20 minutes Lycan.

[Ranmaru]

Spoiler:

LQ

: Why does it mean Gamma scum over Town Gamma to you? We also need to see Action Dan, NSG, and Marquis before we end the day. After that, I'm fine.

Because I can see the perspective that Gamma is just doing a sloppy job of trying to do LAMIST. Like I did leave room in my reads list for this kind of behavior from Gamma as Scum. I can see the perspective that GE is just trying his damndest to look as Townie as he knows how. He's asking questions, but they don't seem to really go very deep. They just sorta seem like a bit of a low standard of play (no offense). It looks more like GE is trying to look town than game solve in other words. I am going to look at that ISO now.

IIRC, he's taken a lot of time to answer questions thrown his way. I don't get how you can be here and make like 5 posts and then once someone asks you something you are just gone for the next hour. it doesn't make sense to me.

Okay, so we're on the same page there then. Townreading CES btw
Honestly I think I'm actually in love with white flag now that I'm engaged in playing the setup

I remembered this post for some reason. I don't like it, IDK why.

OK, I ran this by mathblade and he said I can say this:

OK, so I looked at the PYP game that I said I played with Gamma. He was Scum, not Town in that game! Thing is, he has a pretty good Scum game actually. Pretty much all his posts look pretty Townie in that game. It's a head scratcher. I mean I can say that GE probably wouldn't shy away from being Scum at least.

-----------

At this point an Eddie flip tells us a lot about the game. Tells us a lot about Gamma if Eddie flips Scum, tells us about ECS and Lycan if Eddie flips Town. At this point this lynch needs to happen.

Gamma's town. Although would like you to explain Dunn's thought process coming to you as town.

Don't want me to talk about Gamma being Scum. Why not?

I'm telling you Gamma's town. That's it. Now can you answer my question? (Also, you can talk about it as much as you want, I'm still going to tell you Gamma's town)

Why is Gamma Town without meta?

VOTE: Gamma

I'd rather be here anyways.

@Ranmaru,

I want a detailed case on why Gamma is Town based on Meta.

You need to give your case on why you believe Gamma is scum before hand since Burden of Proof is on you. Afterwords I can give you a brief explanation of why I believe Gamma is town.

Nope, not doing that. You tell me why he is Town first and then I will say what I was seeing.

VOTE: Ranmaru

LOL explain this shit. Just because Ran is telling you to present first you're voting him? You wanna revise that line of bullshit?

Why is it bull shit?

You scumread a person, you present your case. Simple as that. If you need to check why I town read Gamma, you can check my posts like you always ask me to. I'm not going to go back and forth on this point. After you present your case, I'll reasonably fulfill your request. Not before.

Well, the read is contingent on your read of Gamma, so...

All I am seeing here from LQ is "I want to connect Ran and Gamma through them defending each other". I've seen enough.
VOTE: LicketyQuickety

If that is what I am saying, would you say that is inaccurate?

Here's what I can do: After you give your case on Gamma, I can explain my Gamma Town Read, and link you to the games I have played with him. That's it. When I reference his meta, I'm talking about games I have played with him. (Hint: I've already referenced two of them)

Did you read the games you asked for, LQ? What did you gain from reading those games?

Nope. It's dependent on you giving your read (and most importantly why) first.

No. Burden of proof is on you. Also you can just check my reads list in my ISO.

My vote isn't moving until I see why you are meta reading Gamma as Town.

So that would be the read.

Ran's defense of Gamma is completely unwarranted. He keeps saying it's a meta read, but he has yet to demonstrate how this game is any different that Gamma's other games. The reason I wanted people to look at Gamma's games is to show that Gamma is remarkably good at copying his Town meta. So then for Ran to just give these lame ass "reasons" for a "Meta Read" which isn't even a distinction between his Town and Scum games shows something funny is going on here.

That said, I asked Ran for his meta read on Gamma, and hopefully people see that Ran's meta read of Gamma is BS.

Trust me, he's improving. He's town though. I'll let him respond before I comment further.

What do you mean "he is improving"? Why do you feel Gamma's play is sub-par? From what I have seen, Gamma is a pretty competent player. I don't get this "oh, but he's getting better" angle. Like this is why I am SRing Gamma - because I feel like you are trying to say Gamma is just this helpless little player who can't do anything himself. So then you say he "new" and "improving" to say why he is Town. It doesn't make sense to me.

This is a weird turnabout, what changed your read on Ran and me? I want reason for both, and they should be specific for each of us.

Yeah, I agree it's a weird turnabout.

Basically, I already kinda touched on it and kinda predicted I would be wrong about it before I committed to the read in the first place when I said "when I am this sure of something, I am usually wrong."

But to answer your question, It was mostly that I saw I was focussing too much on a single aspect of something. That something was how you did your votes from game to game. I had assumed that Ran was just making up their meta read on you so that they could easily say you were Town without having to give details into why saying it was a meta read. My perspective changed when I saw that Ran could in fact back up what he was saying with regards to his meta read on you. I also took into account that on paper, Ran is really playing very very Pro-Town, so after thinking about it, I decided, once again, using Occam's Razor, that Ran was probably just Town because he was playing like a Townie would. This read was reinforced when I looked at one of the Scum games he linked. In that game, half of his posts were talking about how he would post later. He has done that very very little this game and the times he has done it, it hasn't been a string of "I'll post later", "sorry, I can't post now, I know I said I would but I will later" ect. and he has had a legit excuse for doing so, Namely, work. And he was still posting while at work as well. This is the exact opposite of what Marquis has been doing pretty much all game. To go along with this, Marquise has also NOT played Pro-Town like Ran has. BTW, you have played Pro-Town as well, so that would factor in as well. So once I realized that Ran was Town way more often than he was Scum here, and since he is so strong in his read on you, I think you can see that it's not that much of a jump to say that because Ran is Town, then it's very likely you are Town because of how strong his read on you is.

And I have been trying to see the reason in people's reads more this game. Usually I don't pay attention to, or don give credence to my TR's reads, but this game I am. For example, Postie said North is like lock Town. And since Postie flipped green, I can see that there is probably a good read there. Then I match up what I would read North as, which is the same read, so that read gets strengthened. This is the basic concept behind how I came up with the TR's I did, with a few exceptions. Those exceptions are found in Dunn, CES, Dan to a lesser extent, and most of all, Shea.

I want to know why KMD thought the wagon was bad early game.

Yeah, I hate to admit it because of what I said earlier about the wagon, but actually after reading that part of the game over, I think if Marquis flips Scum, that wagon is going to be very telling. I think it makes a few people look very good.

I have to say why I hate to admit it more though. I realize that my line of thinking is so contrary to what the norm is that it's borderline detrimental to Town. I have always been like this in Mafia and it's more annoying than you are probably thinking. I realize that by being so unconventional in what I am looking at compared to others that it's almost impossible for me to actually get a good grasp of what is going on in the game. Players like Llama, tho they don't back up what they are saying very well, have a much better understanding of what is going on in the game at the time. It pains me to admit that I am probably just slow in understanding things. It's really rather embarrassing.

Gamma, are you still feeling I am Scum?

Honestly not really. More recently while I wasn't a fan of your push on me and Ran it wasn't like your past play where I felt you were misrepping people. You were pushing things that were clearly there and you reconsidered when you saw evidence to the contrary.

Here, I'll help you out:


If your claim is that he "wolfy jumped in the thread" and made a vote based off of wanting to "push a wagon" you'd think maybe he'd have chosen actually a wagon, instead of just randomly throwing a vote at the wind in a place where no one else was.

More to the point, I find it deeply unsettling that you think this is the most important thing to go off of at this point. We have 10 whole pages bruh.

VOTE: gamma emerald

I thought others voted before him, huh
UNVOTE:

Also I'm not wild about the fact that your first instinct was to attack me instead of trying to figure out what I meant. As town when someone says something to me that on face doesn't make sense my first reaction is generally to try to clarify, not to fos them.

I thought you were trying to br obtuse, now I see you were right I'm no longer FOSing you

Ok but why are you voting dunn? Your vote for him is nonsense and there's a lot of scum motivation to park on the lurker who is literally doing nothing, and then make a big show about it as if you had some hyper special read on him and you didn't understand why others didn't. What do you think about the literal anything else thats happened in this game? Why do you think that dunn is the best vote when there is so much going on? Why were you unaware that it wasn't a wagon vote when you've placed your entire sorting efforts in this game into figuring out what happened in that one random early vote?

Okaaaay you're blowing this way out of proportion and I don't like it. I literally unvoted the second I realized my mistake. And the reason I thought there was a wagon there was I remembered votes on someone Llalmarble suspected, and knew some people were suspecting Marquis, so I thought the votes were on her. I get that there is some scumminess to what I did, but I didn't just votepark, I actually thought I had a point. And I've asked other questions and made other reads, so what I'm seeing here is you boiling down my content to one misguided push. Given that and the fact Something_Smart is telling me not to trust you, I feel comfortable with this.
VOTE: TheStatusQuo

This is one of the weirdest progressions I have ever seen..

IDK why Shea doesn't press Gamma on that mistake Gamma made more than this and instead later ends up TRing Gamma based on his 395 which I personally found severely lacking, and I don't get this rapid turn around from Gamma on Shea...

Someone said Gamma's 180 on Shea is Townie, I completely disagree. It makes me think there is a very real change of there being at least one Scum in Shea/Gamma. This is due to Shea's turnabout read on Gamma based on 395. It just doesn't seem like Gamma deserves to be let off the hook that easily.

People (pretty much everyone) are saying Gamma is Town here. Since I think there is one Scum in Shea/Gamma I'm going back to this:

VOTE: TSQ

These are some quotes of Quick pushing Gamma D2, D3, and pushing Shea wrt to his Gamma push in Day 1. I bring this up solely because, Gamma likes to use his own slot as a stepping stone for his scum mates to use and take a better position in the game. In the back of my mind, I thought "Ok, if LQ and Gamma are scum, we might be in a pickle." In Penguin Mafia Redux, Gamma slowed down his posting on purpose so I could agree with Transcend's points on Gamma, which made me think 'Ah, he is right, may be town then' when I was having problems with the Transcend slot. Turns out, they were cross bussing each other day 3 so that either one could get town credit based on that push. When I say Gamma is similar to there, I mean the tactical aspect of his play, or at least how it is associated to LQ. That idea was suddenly sparked when I see him and LQ, both people town reading CES, voting CES upon NSG's case. Shea comes in and reverses his read he has had on CES all game as well. They are openly wolfing here. Why, I don't know. Their votes on CES need a hard look in future days.

[Ranmaru]

I'm not going to switch again. Join me.

I'm actually considering it
I'll look over CES again and maybe Marq too

Did you get around to doing this? What came of it?

Incorrect question. You should be asking instead, why wouldn't Scum bus Marquis?

• It puts them at one lynch away from an instant loss, a significantly disadvantaged position that they don't need to put themselves in.
  
• If marquis is scum, there are other town lynches would be equally as easy to push as the marquis wagon (and wouldn't be on a scumbuddy).
  
• Nobody gains significant towncred from a scum marquis flip given that he's barely around to provide any interactions and the number of people willing to scumread him.

Plenty scumread him, but it can be read into what is done with that read

it certainly can be, and i think from what i

have

read into of that, it indicates that he's town. did you come to a different conclusion based on the number of people willing to scumread him?

Unfortunately not yet, other things happened. As for Marquis suspectors I think it will be easier to sort with a flip of Marquis.

[Ranmaru]

Eh, fuck it. I'll post it anyway. He read your thing about unvotes before posting so was explicitly looking for it.

Cheets meta dive of gamma:

TownGame Anything UPick

Large amount of off topic posting
Serious from the very start of game with vote, Votes Whemeplay for suggesting shooting the vig.
There's very a very disappointingly low amount of him actually playing the game here.
Some setup spec, could maybe see him speccing on team comp if he doesn't ever setup spec as scum
Isn't afraid to be doing nothing and not pushing anything as town
Clumsy. Puts his foot in his mouth a bit.
Holds serious votes very long.
Is frequently annoyed at being pushed.
Gets lynched.

TownGame Gold Rush

Replaced in.
Says that he doesn't feel capable of playing a "deep wolf game."
This game happened after team mafia started, so very recent. Basically saying he doesn't think he can carry a scum team.
Not relevant to alignment, but cheet is annoyed that in his catchup he responds to single posts on at a time.
Doesn't vote at all in his catchup.
Suspicious of competent players who lurk
Unvotes very frequently as town here.
Votes Cabd basically for not engaging enough with the game.

TownGame Valentine's Dance

Setup specc at the very beginning of the game.
Is paranoid of the "good players" on the list.
Lots of pokes at peoples reads when they're expressing higher confidence than he thinks they should be.
Thinks overanalyzing setup spec is scummy. (lol)
Again, very tentative with pairing similar to with voting.
Scum really pushed for his ML
Gets really annoyed when people are worse than he expects of them
Says he has a reactive scum game.
He gets VERY angry.

ScumGame Mini Normal 1811

Asks busywork questions rather than commenting on things going on.
Unvotes.
LOT of buddy interaction. Way higher than most.
Another unvote.
Sheeps "townreads". We don't think we saw that anywhere in the town games we read.
He votes a lot more frequently as scum in this game.
Puts a lot of emphasis on distancing from his buddies.
He is less defensive and gets less angry at people for scum reading him.
More willing to compromise with his votes than the town games.
Votes a lot more frequently.
Lots of waffly fence sitting.
Literally no angry reaction to being pushed [to clear a scum buddy]

White Flag
Early vote on Marquis
Vote on Dunnstral
Unvotes
Votes TSQ
Cheet thinks he's taking this game a lot more seriously than any of the other games we read, and this comes out in his tone and his demeanor.
Unvotes while reviewing.
Votes LQ for being too argumentative for the sake of being argumentative
post 647 is a game that we would expect to see more in his town game than scum game.
Votes TChill for shading, bad reasons, etc.
Says that LQ is playing entirely reactively
Says he stopped reading about halfway through because he's tired of reading so many gamma posts.

But we got through several town games a scum game and half of this one.

General thoughts:

Cheet thought, before doing this dive that townGamma is generally obv town. But he's more lynchbaity than he originally thought based off of these games.

Gamma's scum game is pretty weak (based off of prior experience) He gets lynched d1-3 a lot, so cheet tried to dive a game where he lasted longer than that.

He thinks that given gammas self-evaluation of his scum game, he'd be very unlikely to take a scum slot unless he had the direct intention of being early bus fodder to clear his teammates.

He thinks that based off of what hes seen here he can only really see gamma as scum with LQ because of that, otherwise hes not really doing anything to overcome his self described "not deep wolf game." The rest of the pushing and engagement is too scattered to make sense otherwise.

With his votes, his scumgame was typically a little more votey, where his towngame is a lot more unsure and tentative.

He thinks that overall if he were reading this in a vacuum he would say the play is more similar to his scum game than his town game, but he doesn't think this is a super weight-y point because its possible that team mafia makes gamma play a lot more seriously than he typically does as either alignment, which is generally born out in the lack of shit posting in this game which you see constantly in other games of both alignments.

He reiterates that he thinks 647 is way more likely to come from town gamma than scum gamma.

There isn't really the waffly fence sitting or the awkwardness or the compromise in this game that we saw in his scum play.

Basically we still think he's more likely to be town than scum.

You also rarely see him unvoting in games he is Town.

This is untrue. We saw him unvote in literally all three town games. If anything, unvoting seems like a town tell to us. Though its likely not that either.

LQ wrote:

In this game, if you look at his votes, they are very "well I guess, not really sure" which looks really bad for him.

Cheet doesn't think this is true and he wants to know what votes you think it applies to.

Look at Shea's notes on his Scum game in Mini Normal 1811. I think that's the game I was speaking of. He interacted plenty with Transcend as well, mulch too. They were all active and caught up with me, the highest poster.

[Ranmaru]

The interaction between LQ and Gamma seems like distancing, but his interactions with Marquis seem the same way too. With how he says 'There are reasons to scumread you'. I think Gamma has been playing a solid game, and I did say if he were scum, we'd be outplayed and that is what I think is happening here. He just slipped up with his recent push on CES.

[Ranmaru]

I noted you saying Gamma is locktown and didn't think to respond, but I want to mention that Llama did say that is how he won as scum, being locktown due to 'no connections' to scum. Also, yes Shea points Gamma as a possible scum partner to LQ. Yet he then says 'in a vacuum, his play is similar to his scum game over town game but it may be because he's taking Team Mafia seriously overall'. There are only two posts that I can remember at the top of my head that made me wary of Gamma, but I considered trivial. Yes, LQ and Dan were the only ones that wanted him, and CES. I think that would give them room to distance, otherwise if Gamma were in more trouble, I'm not sure how they'd want to play that out.

[Ranmaru]

VOTE: LQ
At this point I'm honestly wanting this flip more, he's scummy, his scumminess matches past reconds of scumplay, and

honestly at first blush srceenplay doesn't seem half bad

You know what I think Dunn might just be that stupid but like
I still suspect him even without that part of things

These two posts were the only things that made me go 'uh oh'.

[Ranmaru]

I think it's possible CES voted one scum. (Gamma) Now like I said, I did note that there was less of him working together with me as I have seen in his other games. He says he tried working together with Llama but was rebuffed. I don't really expect CES to be gamesolving. I will say that part of my concern with CES is because I have only played one game with him where he was scum. Don't have much experience with his town play. I disagree with his postie NKA theory, I felt my theory was better. A thing to note is that RC did also read Gamma and Shea as scum, alongside myself. Now on his wagon not taking off:

4. VCA

I'm confident in saying that cogito ergo sum has voted only town this entire game.

The cogito ergo sum wagon never moves anywhere despite nobody really townreading him. Here are the people who have voted CES:
Day 1 – {Lycan, Ran, NSG}
Day 2 – {Eddie, Lycan}
Day 3 – {Lycan, Davsto, NSG, Ran}

Comparatively, the people who have voted marquis (excluding rvs) are:
Day 1 – {Davsto, Dunn, CES, Llama, Quick, Gamma}
Day 2 – {Ran, Eddie, Gamma, CES, Quick, Dunn}
Day 3 – {CES, Quick, Dunn, Ran, Gamma, TSQ}

The cogito ergo sum wagon doesn't take off because scum don't want it to. The marquis wagon does, the same way the eddie wagon did. If cogito ergo sum were town, his wagon should have taken off at some point during this game, but it hasn't – not even after ran was canvassing pretty hard for it.

I think scum were avoiding it to give a false sense of 'hey this person must be scum, since it's not gaining steam'. I think if [Gamma, Quick, Shea] are the team, then they had two scum wagon Marquis each day. Quick, Gamma Day 1. Gamma, Quick Day 2. Gamma, Shea, Day 3. Although, Day 3 I do remember Quick voting CES.

[Ranmaru]

What is your read on CES?

He's town.

[Ranmaru]

VOTE: Cogito Ergo Sum
I'm on board here

Gamma, in your town games, have you ever reversed a read on a solid town read you had all game like this?

[Ranmaru]

Lycanfire, Davsto, NSG, Dunnstral. Tell me what you think of what I have said regarding [Gamma, Quick, Shea], and tell me if you would be willing to compromise to one of them today. I'm going to sleep for now. Ciao.

[Ranmaru]

Withdrawing intent to hammer

Honestly I'm not so sure on CES here. Like I think if he were scum he'd be lynched cos his buddies would be trying to bus him for some sweet cred
So either he's not scum or he is and scum are on his wagon already

Who do you think are scum in the case of CESscum and CEStown and why?

[Ranmaru]

Quick: Same question. Who is scum on CEStown flip, and CESscum flip. In fact, everyone answer this. Ces scum = Ces, Shea, Quick.

[Ranmaru]

Finally: Quick, what are creature's thoughts on recent events? Who does he think is scum now?

[Ranmaru]

Vote: Shea

I prefer this and I think this has the most support. Join me.

[Ranmaru]

Have you been paying literally attention to LQ this game? Have you been paying literally any attention to ANYTHING in this game besides marquis?

Because I've had to do that like 5 times.

VOTE: ces

L-1.

If we lynch dunn/marquis/ces/NSG we win the game.

You know what.

Fuck you

VOTE: LQ

I don't give a fuck if you're town I'm not playing with you anymore.

OK, so my biggest 3 suspects at this point are:

shea
Gamma
Marquis

Any particular reason for each on this list of three?

Ran, I'm pretty sure that I want to lynch somewhere in [Dunn, NSG, marquis] today. I'm least sure about marquis because of Reck's town read on him.

I have pretty lock town reads on ran lycan and davsto and everyone else is kind of in a mish mash of various town and scum leans.

Lycanfire

: I was telling people to look at your votes so they'd see you voting CES and not doing as much from my perspective. I've looked at your meta and it checks out. I think that interaction means they are not aligned. It's possible he didn't care about it since he town reads you, though. CES explains the #466 in his #1451. I liked your response, so I'm retracting my scum read on you.

Shea

: I thought it was AI because I've done it before as scum, that's the simplest way to explain it. Fair enough on reconsidering reads. That is a good point, actually (the informal thing). I didn't consider that. 4) makes sense too. Fair on number seven, if Eddie is scum then I'll have no problem at all. Fair on pushing gamma for reactions. Fair enough on the T-chill/LQ association.

---

I've decided I'm wrong on this entirely, including CES if he's right on Postie/Eddie. I'm now willing to help with the Eddie wagon. I'm concerned about LQ's actions as I pushed for Shea/Lycanfire.

If Eddie is town I think my focus goes back onto LQ. I have pause on postie because on the one hand I have liked her play and think shes more likely to be town, but on the other hand RC is VERY capable of a long term push on a townie expecting to run them up and not get any heat from it.

@Ran I would happily kill either LQ or Tchill. Right now there is a wagon on one of them and not on the other. I have pretty high confidence in my scum reads on both of them, so I don't see why it makes sense for me to switch over to LQ at this time unless the wagon moved over there for some reason independent of me.

VOTE: EddieFenix

I think that LQ being scum mostly makes sense from the perspective of tchill being scum. If tchill isn't scum a lot of LQs actions on that wagon look a lot better.

Willing to throw some muscle behind postie's push. I think the case makes a lot of sense.

Not really wanting to go after marquis. But if he tries to lurk through this day too I want him to eat rope really quick.

Actually I'm pretty sure reasoning out my response to ran makes me think that there's a higher chance of scum LQ approaching the wagon the way he did than I was previously thinking.

I'm not lynching ces over dunn nsg and marquis.

From my reread I didn't particularly like dunn at all. He and marquis are basically the same player in this game but one keeps getting tons of pressure and the other is getting none. Plus reck is screaming at me that dunn is scum in the discord.

Another thing that continually keeps coming up is LQ as a counter wagon to the town wagons. It's happened both days. I'm not huge on VCA but that does suggest to me that LQ is more likely to be town because there's not a lot of scum incentive to try to shift the wagon off of a town player that way, which means likely the early votes on his wagons were town as well.

VOTE: dunnestral

I want this before marquis and nsg. But I'd happily vote any of the three of them today.

@lycan

What do you think of my meta analysis on ces?

@LQ

is that a response to what cheet said?

[Ranmaru]

1. Sus vote on CES, his town read that he has had all game. Doesn't explain why CES's reaction means it is a scum reaction.
2. Is fine with helping the Eddie push without doing much of nothing Day 2.
3. Has Quick as scum independently, but prioritizes Eddie without any actual re-evaluation (BEFORE the talk with me). Then town-reads Quick. He never intended to switch from Chill to Quick.
4. His presence Day 2 and Day 3 has diminished by a landslide. He's not actively trying to influence the game as he did in Day 1.
5. Static scumreads, doesn't really do a good job of looking for slots that may be actually scum. (In the case of AD, AD at least had Gamma so he's fine)

[Ranmaru]

CES, vote Shea with me. Tell me what you think of his vote on you.

Davsto: What do you think of his recent play? Would you care to join?

NSG: I think I will die tonight, and I think it's best we push Shea today before there is less support for it tomorrow. What do you think of his vote on CES?

Quick: You suspect Shea, join us.

[Ranmaru]

Lycanfire, I want you on this too. I appreciate you talking with me tonight. I'd like to see what you and your team thinks of Shea.

[Ranmaru]

I've put this off long enough but I'm going to really consider replacing out. I don't expect this to end anytime as soon as I thought it would and you all know I keep tapping in and out here.

Asking my team about it, will get back in the morning with a fresh head and final decision.

If you do consider replacing, get Zachrulez. Solid player, he's still in replacement que.

[Ranmaru]

Scum motivation: Be proactive Day 1 to have the appearance of being town. Interacts with scum mates, drops push the next day in favor of Eddie push. Once the players that can read him correctly are gone (Llama, RC) He becomes lazy. Has resorted to skimming. Isn't actually reading posts I link to him (since he had to ask NSG if I said anything about scum teams) Opportunistic vote on CES. (States CES is null but doesn't think he should go before Dunnstral, NSG, Marquis) Reason: Possibly because town won't punish Quick/Gamma/Shea for whatever they do so they make this aggressive play.

Town motivation: Looks for scum Day 1. Becomes lazy due to in real life reasons. I can't see any town motivation beyond that.

[Ranmaru]

VOTE SHEA 2018

[Ranmaru]

I agree with the above post. I want quick and gamma to respond to my posts and questions to them as well.

[Ranmaru]

But (Ranmaru Lycanfire NSG) is my pick for lylo stack vote leader.

[Ranmaru]

Replace that with Quick.

[Ranmaru]

I predict quick will not post and leave his vote on CES. Even though he 'says' he wants to lynch Shea.

[Ranmaru]

That is what I meant. Since he already voted, now all Gamma has to do is hammer, then Quick will just pray to the mafia gods for a quick thread lock.

[Ranmaru]

Yeah quicks follow up was weak. That is why I want him to answer who he thinks is scum on cestown and cesscum.

[Ranmaru]

NSG: Now is the time for Shea. Join me. We have cookies.

[Ranmaru]

I disagree, I am trying to win this for town and lynch scum before I am night killed.

[Ranmaru]

Quick: Same question. Who is scum on CEStown flip, and CESscum flip. In fact, everyone answer this. Ces scum = Ces, Shea, Quick.

I still don't understand why you think ces flip makes me scum. With LQ of literally all players. That would require you to think scums strategy is just basically turbo bussing which is just bizarre.

I think you are scum regardless of his flip.

[Ranmaru]

I hate to say this because it means I was wrong, but I think the shea wagon is a Scum driven wagon.

I predicted you'd change your stance once you get the opportunity to join a Shea wagon. Who is scum on a CEStown flip and CESscum flip?

[Ranmaru]

Also I'm fairly certain Ran/Dunn/Lycan will be parking their votes on me tomorrow regardless of any outcome today, which is mainly where the mislynch bit came from.

No, I won't.

[Ranmaru]

It wasn't as easy as the CES wagon just two or three pages ago. It's just me, Dunn, and CES (who can see how bad Shea's vote was). So, the wagon on Shea right now makes sense. Plus remember when I voted Shea Day 2, and you didn't actually join me. That was your time to wagon him as well.

[Ranmaru]

Shea: Can you explain why you think CES's reaction to NSG's case was nonsense and makes him scum to you?

[Ranmaru]

Currently I think it's most likely Dunn/Ran/? where ? could be a number of options, though CES is one of them

Who is scum on a CES town flip? CES scum flip?

[Ranmaru]

Shea: Can you link it, i'm at work.

[Ranmaru]

Gamma

: No, it's either Shea or CES.

[Ranmaru]

Shea or CES is much more informative.

[Ranmaru]

I just said why Shea or CES is better. Unless you think a Dunn lynch will shed light on who the scum is, Quick, Gamma?

[Ranmaru]

Quick, can you respond to my #3355?

[Ranmaru]

It wasn't as easy as the CES wagon just two or three pages ago. It's just me, Dunn, and CES (who can see how bad Shea's vote was). So, the wagon on Shea right now makes sense. Plus remember when I voted Shea Day 2, and you didn't actually join me. That was your time to wagon him as well.

[Ranmaru]

No, it's in response to you saying the Shea wagon was easy. So I'm wondering how you are reading Shea on a CES town flip, CES scum flip, and tell me what you think of what I said here.

[Ranmaru]

Hmm
guess not
UNVOTE:

What's your read on CES and Shea?

[Ranmaru]

btw NSG is town cuz team comp

[Ranmaru]

Can you quote, gamma?

[Ranmaru]

Also explain your mindset in that game and compare it to this situation

[Ranmaru]

Also tell me your read on Shea.

[Ranmaru]

Shea: I figured it was ok to say since NSG said it with reference to your slot.

[Ranmaru]

whoops soz

[Ranmaru]

CES what's your read on Quick now.

[Ranmaru]

I know people see that I re-evaluate my reads constantly. I don't suggest people re-evaluate as often as I do. Yet, I feel if people don't re-evaluate after today, then we may be in for a town loss. Please keep that in mind.

[Ranmaru]

i would much rather be trying to figure out viable scumteams with you. it's just that i think you're pointed in the entirely wrong direction.

This is how I feel right now. I'm not sure I have much else to say.

[Ranmaru]

Shea-Quick-Gamma 2018

You just need two.

[Ranmaru]

NSG: The point about CES's team mates. I think that depends on the situation. Right now, the only team mate following my game is A50 at this time. Everyone, but me, died at night. (Or was already lynched) So, either checked out from boredom (from lack of involvement) or depression (for being lynched). Yet, I will say your point here is sort of fair, as I did try to get CES to have Singersigner comment and I didn't get a response. I know she prefers town like I do. That is why I wanted her feedback. So I do wonder why I've heard nothing from her.

[Ranmaru]

Hey NSG can we talk a bit before day end?

[Ranmaru]

Can you talk to me about who you think is scum upon CES town flip, and CES scum flip? I want Shea dead tomorrow if CES flips town today.

[Ranmaru]

Also, is there anything you'd like to talk about to me?

[Ranmaru]

If I'm alive I will focus entirely on Shea. Then Quick. I understand people really don't want Gamma. Therefore, I'll focus on those two.

[Ranmaru]

I will say shea's vote looks Sus af regardless of how CES flips.

agreed, this is something mathdino was just talking to me about.

Note that Quick conveniently reversed this read. What do you think of that?

[Ranmaru]

Dunn never voted CES. He never came around to it even though he null readed him. So I will say your point is fair there.

[Ranmaru]

Not CES?

[Ranmaru]

Did you just scum slip.

[Ranmaru]

Quick is already giving reads with CES out of the picture. He knows how CES will flip.

[Ranmaru]

Do you see CES anywhere in his reads?

[Ranmaru]

Ok then. Just answer this question then: Why did you leave CES off your list? What is your read of CES now?

[Ranmaru]

Do you see CES anywhere in his reads?

he gave a read list for tomorrow....which leaves off the obvious todays lynch because its not relevant to tomorrow...

...

[Ranmaru]

i'm sorry your response to me is actually brain dead. I've never seen someone give reads in the present 'for tomorrow'.

[Ranmaru]

It would be understandable if he said 'if CES flips town, here are my reads for tomorrow'. Then that would be fine.

[Ranmaru]

ok so even if you believe that which, heaven help you I guess...how the fuck does not including him on the list at all imply he has any knowledge of ces' alignment?

It means he's voting him but lists three scum with him not being there. Like I'm talking about reads for tomorrow, but they include the person I'm voting today, Shea. It at least shows he's not confident on his read on CES while being on him. Note that he town readed him, then voted him, then says he doesn't know how he is flipping. If you can quote any certain towns person doing the same as him, I'd reconsider.

[Ranmaru]

CES and you both have tip toed around each other. He's only voting you because this is his last chance for survival.

[Ranmaru]

I also think the balance of my play has been pretty town as well, I think thats what should clear me, but obviously you disagree there.

Between you and I, who has tried to influence the game more and why?

[Ranmaru]

hey @gamma please don't go to sleep or something without hammering.

I made more time. I've got 'til midnight est

for what

[Ranmaru]

Lmao @ I made more time. Damn, you can make time? Wish I could do that.

[Ranmaru]

I also think the balance of my play has been pretty town as well, I think thats what should clear me, but obviously you disagree there.

Between you and I, who has tried to influence the game more and why?

you, because you don't seem to care who is lynched as long as its not your scum buddy over there at l-1 right now.

you have tried to test the waters on almost literally every player in the game today and we ended up with like the literal one you were half hearted about.

I, on the other hand, prefer to vote for who I think is scum, and not call 3 people scum and then the next minute tell them to vote with me on my next sure fire cant miss scum team.

You have only tried to influence the game in Day 1. Day 2 and Day 3, nada. Why did you get lazy?

[Ranmaru]

CES and you both have tip toed around each other. He's only voting you because this is his last chance for survival.

bullfucking shit.

I many times engaged about ces specifically. I talked ces meta and why it led me to a null town read, I even did it with you personally.


then he responded to north and that response was garbage and didn't fit with the town meta I was referencing the whole game, so I changed my mind.

we literally had conversations where I added onto conversations about ces you were having.

this is just straight up fucking false.

I can only remember one interaction where you ask him why he wasn't voting Eddie instead of Marquis

[Ranmaru]

ok so even if you believe that which, heaven help you I guess...how the fuck does not including him on the list at all imply he has any knowledge of ces' alignment?

It means he's voting him but lists three scum with him not being there. Like I'm talking about reads for tomorrow, but they include the person I'm voting today, Shea. It at least shows he's not confident on his read on CES while being on him. Note that he town readed him, then voted him, then says he doesn't know how he is flipping. If you can quote any certain towns person doing the same as him, I'd reconsider.

Which would make me fucking Town, you moron... How can I possibly be "not confident" in read if I am Scum in White Flag?

Because moron, It means you don't have an actual read on CES. Otherwise it would be right there. Now you're voting him without knowing how he'll flip without any indication of saying that you are unsure about CES. Yet you were so hype to vote CES. When I say that it shows you are not confident, while you showed confidence in this post:

THAT is a CASE!!!

VOTE: CES

I applaud you.

This is why me and chamber always say cases are scummy. It's just a cavalcade of nonsense and it's very obvious a lot of it is just ripped from its context or hasn't been given much thought. It just creates the impression that there has to be something there because of its size.

I'll give a detailed reply as soon I can, but the fact that she claims that the reasons for my scum read on Marquis haven't changed when my very last post summarizes exactly why I'm currently scum reading Marquis (and it's not like I hadn't talked about those things before).

The fuck are you talking about? North's case is based on and made based on the evidence of what you have actually done. I would say if North made an error, it is not providing enough of their own thoughts on what these things mean.. not like she has to. It's pretty self explanatory why why you have done is Scummy to anyone who knows what Scummy behavior looks like.

It simply doesn't line up.

[Ranmaru]

I'm only returning his vitriol and acid.

[Ranmaru]

Is Quick this way regardless of alignment? I am hoping it's only scum him that does this.

[Ranmaru]

Then who are scum on CES scum team.

[Ranmaru]

Funniest post itt IMO.

Not really no. I forget what macaroons are though.

[Ranmaru]

Read early game. Like page 1 - 3.

[Ranmaru]

I'm glad shea know's how to tell a joke.

Now this is funny now that Shea cleared that up.

[Ranmaru]

I think CES is town. So I won't be hammering.

[Ranmaru]

Alright. I have nothing else left to say. You may end the day.

[Ranmaru]

A50 says that it would make more sense for Quick to list two scum reads instead of three while voting CES in his #3459.

[Ranmaru]

Keep that in mind if CES flips town.

[Ranmaru]

He says that if you were unsure that you'd instead use a pool saying 'Scum are in X, Y, Z'.

[Ranmaru]

He says it would make more sense since it's the natural thing to do.

[Ranmaru]

Hello. The remaining scum is Marquis and Action Dan. I am fine with being put at L-2 or L-1 today while I make a case, vca, and final reads list in the case I'm mislynched today. I will not vote outside of those two today. I still think Town will win with or without me. I suggest today should be used with asking me questions about my mindset if I do die today, that way you can consider it in light of my town flip. I think Quick, Gamma, and Shea all get town credit for their reaction to NSG's CES case. I think CES's scum flip is the best town can ask for, since his flip gives more information rather then a Marquis or Action Dan scum flip.

[Ranmaru]

Shadoweh: A50 thought he was scum with CES due to VCA. (Never 2 on the same wagon, except for the lynch, all 3 on it as of Feb 06) I thought the team of Shea, Lycanfire, CES made sense. I pushed them. Then each time Lycan responded, I was like "Hell no my gut is screaming town." It's not depression, I'm looking into the future.

[Ranmaru]

Please vote LQ, Ran.

I don't think it's LQ. Both Marquis and Action Dan never showed up before deadline.

[Ranmaru]

I will focus on this game tonight.

[Ranmaru]

I want Davsto, Shea, and Quick to each give their case on why they think I'm scum and should go. I actually want this day to be RANMARU v MARQUIS rather then just 'DUNNSTRAL DAY'. Then I'll try to explain my mindset and try to show who the real scum are. I know I can show you all that everything I did was pro-town. Ask me anything.

[Ranmaru]

i think it was a likely bus. That's why CES wasn't pushing it hard and was fine with letting other pushes precede his. Think, his play towards that slot just made you town read it. Which is beneficial to scum.

[Ranmaru]

No, it's Marquis or Me. That's the most beneficial direction for town right now.

[Ranmaru]

I mean, focusing on Dunn today is a bit lazy. At least fulfill my request so I can explain myself to you all as best I can. For example, if Dunn were lynched and flipped town today, would your truly reconsider your read on me the next day? I think not. Yet if you focused on one of ME v Marquis, if somehow I were mislynched, it would at least give town a ton of information (due to wagons) and make others accountable for their actions towards my slot. I also think Marquis is town's best chance at victory, since that might be a lynch town may actually agree on. Otherwise we may just lose. I want you all to try harder.

[Ranmaru]

Yes, please do it. I'm also not sure why you say 'these days'. It's something I've seen be done for a while now.

[Ranmaru]

But his behaviour as a whole yesterday felt very,, off compared to the first two days. I haven't rechecked in detail but my instincts feel like he was riding being heavily townread day one and two and got a little carried away maybe? Again that's mostly me just thinking off the top of my head I haven't looked properly

Can you go more into this? How was I riding being heavily town read?

[Ranmaru]

Shadoweh, I want you to do actual analysis.

[Ranmaru]

I mean, he makes it seem like I was just coasting on everyone's town reads. That's why I'm asking how I did that.

[Ranmaru]

Alright, I'll be doing that.

[Ranmaru]

Analysis

:

CES's #122. This doesn't make sense for him to mention that without actually pushing Marquis, since he was voting Llamarble at the time. CES votes Marquis when the wagon slows down, here: #349. Note that in his #870, he stated that he didn't want to continue adding pressure to Marquis. So, this shows that CES was pushing Marquis weakly, in an attempt to seem like he's bussing. Which just made me realize, that it may be a red herring as well. My one concern was that Marquis never talked to me when I explained my mindset to him. Yet, note that Marquis's entrance, was weak. I would not think scum CES would plan to have his partner weaken his own position so that CES could awkwardly push him. It makes more sense that he'd push town weakly, so that any partners he has, are safe from connections. (Which would make Marquis more likely be to be a buddy in town's eyes) An optimal play to me, would be to have all scum mates focus on Marquis, while one scum feigns scum connections to that slot. Now, I have already posted Meta showing that Marquis is a slot that is lynched/mislynched quite a lot for his inactivity. He didn't really reconsider due to that, which to me means that he was intending on pushing through it meekly as he could. If he wanted to turn away from it, he could use that as a solid reason to re-evaluate. (Which could be considered townie looking) Yet he stuck to it.

Now, if Marquis were scum, I'd consider that LQ would be scum with them as well. Yet I find LQ's #3612 townie. Action Dan's #3576 seemed also to come from a town mindset. Right now the person who seems to be coming from a scum mindset the most, is Davsto. Again, let's remember that his slot seems consistent. Both WGEURTS and Davsto seemed to be consistently flat / under the radar and I couldn't really get a bead on him. His #3608 mentions he feels I was trying to ride on everyone's town reads when I have been doing quite a lot that day. When, that actually applies to his own slot. I was active, present, and constantly pushing. He, on the other hand, simply voted CES because CES gave him a conclusion before telling him to read Marquis's ISO, which Davsto never

considered

. He never considered here: #2720. I was a high town read of his but he was arguing against CES's argument that Marquis may have been strong scum trying to vote against the grain. Davsto never considered it was a weird vote? I agreed because it seemed like a vote that he can throw away since he not doing anything to progress the game, therefore being a trash slot. Davsto's CES vote is second on his wagon. #2489.

Dunnstral's #2594 shows CES as null. Yet, when I pushed for CES's wagon, here is what he said: #2685 Basically, he doesn't know what to think of CES, even though I linked a case. Yet, he was willing to counter wagon Shea, who he also had a null read on. That's my biggest issue with Dunn. Second, Dunn was lurking heavily when CES was being wagoned, only caring about Marquis's interaction with him. My theory is that the team of [Dunnstral, WGEURTZ, CES] would push for Marquis. At least, in the beginning. #29 That is Dunn's vote. This is what felt off to Gamma, in very early game, that Shea attacked him for. #809 is also an interesting post, how Shea shows that Dunn's tone was different towards Postie rather then CES. Now, on to WGEURTZ vote: #77. So, if the whole team was on him early game, and CES pushes it weakly, and doesn't make it, and dies, they wouldn't be connected to him. People would not expect three votes on one wagon. Note again, Davsto's vote on CES. I ask the town: Was his vote so valid, that he'd stick to it all day one, not even reconsider the Marquis read? Remember, this is what was happening with Davsto:

Spoiler: Davsto

I hate to delay the GE ISO again but a crisis with one of my friends occurred and I'm a little drained and it's semi-late and I don't really want to rush it

To be honest his ISO is massive, about 200 posts, so I'll probably do it over the game night because I don't want to be rushing it because of arbitrary deadlines I set. I'll see if I can get it done beforehand (I'd like to) but over the game night is my final aim to have it done (especially since I'm busy tomorrow night and wednesday).

Davsto says my interactions with TSQ have been off? I wanna hear this

I don't mean off as in ingenuine if that's what you think I mean

I mean like I remember you coming out quite badly with your confrontations with tsq in terms of your points coming out looking rather poor ygm

But recently you've rubbed me much less wrongly so that is why I'm planning on ISOing you soon

I'll do my ISO of gamma tomorrow but I'll try and get a decent post of some sort out in under an hour

I'm not sure if I want to fully ISO Gamma anymore because it's like 250 posts and I've read them all before so I just start skimming so I leave it until later

So I'm basically putting off playing the game at all because I know when I come back I "should" do the Emerald ISO but I can't get myself to do it so I go "oh well probably shouldn't bother posting then"

I'm not sure if I want to fully ISO Gamma anymore because it's like 250 posts and I've read them all before so I just start skimming so I leave it until later

So I'm basically putting off playing the game at all because I know when I come back I "should" do the Emerald ISO but I can't get myself to do it so I go "oh well probably shouldn't bother posting then"

That's fine. Here's something easy and productive you can do instead - ISO Marquis keeping in mind that all he's done since his disastrous start is occasionally pop in, post something that's meant to sound vaguely pro-town and peaced out again. (I stole this wording from a previous post because I am also lazy.

I'm not sure if I want to fully ISO Gamma anymore because it's like 250 posts and I've read them all before so I just start skimming so I leave it until later

So I'm basically putting off playing the game at all because I know when I come back I "should" do the Emerald ISO but I can't get myself to do it so I go "oh well probably shouldn't bother posting then"

That's fine. Here's something easy and productive you can do instead - ISO Marquis keeping in mind that all he's done since his disastrous start is occasionally pop in, post something that's meant to sound vaguely pro-town and peaced out again. (I stole this wording from a previous post because I am also lazy.

Oh, it was CES, not Ran. I don't like this post as it feels like it's trying to plant an idea of what I should get in the ISO rather than actually wanting me to come to my own conclusion.

My initial reaction is that Shea has started to turn my head a bit more unpleasantly so maybe he could be scum but one player I've not particularly liked is CES so I think I'll vote there for now, subject to change when I ISO Marquis as requested.

VOTE: CES

As for how my reads have changed that I can think of:
LQ, GE, NSG become a bit more towny
CES becomes a fair amount more scummy
TSQ, Lycan, Dunn a bit more scummy

This was after my request for him to elaborate on his full reads list. #1765 He had Gamma as scum, which I was wondering about. So, he said he'd ISO him more to get a better idea. This is what happened, and then CES came and tried to help him out. "Here, ISO Marquis blah blah blah." It seemed like a helpful guide in another direction. His reaction was not expected from me. My thoughts is, that he was trying to push towards Gamma's direction, but he couldn't actually fake a reason to push on Gamma, and Gamma had posted so much that it was impossible for Davsto to get anything out of it. Instead of re-evaluating, it takes him that many times to 'keep the push' up. (Which he was stalling with) So his buddy helped him to turn on him to have a direction for the day instead of not being able to turn up with anything. #3398 rubs me off because it shows he's content with the lynch, but his confidence doesn't match:

Spoiler: Davsto

It's hard to pin down exactly why but since I started paying a bit more attention to him and reading closer he's not really just blending in with everything and I'm noticing something just, idk, off in his posts. His Marquis obsession is a bit silly and he seems to actively discredit any theory that doesn't include Marquis-scum. He could just be confbiasing but it seems a bit beyond even that.

Conclusion: Dunnstral pushes Marquis all game, lurks when CES is up for lynch, and avoids him over Shea when he null-reads both. Davsto, has a hard time ISOing and justifying his scumread on Gamma, and so CES helps him vote his way in a forced manner. Marquis is not a bus, but a red herring. Otherwise, if it was a planned bus, CES would have pushed for it harder, instead of putting it on the back burner for other lynches to precede it. [Dunnstral, Davsto, CES]

[Ranmaru]

Vote: Dunn

[Ranmaru]

When I get some time I will respond in full, Shea.

[Ranmaru]

Shea #3635:

1. I was wrong when it mattered. That is true. Yet how does that make me scum? Does that go alongside the rest of my play?

2. I do vote a lot, I like to use my vote as a tool. I do care who is lynched, I just change my mind, a lot. I have always tunneled in the past, and being a player with inaccurate reads, I note myself town reading scum. So, I try to pick up a whimsical style similar to Vi. That was indeed 24 hours apart. My reads have been influenced by A50's, and when I see Lycanfire respond to me, it just vibes town to me. Therefore I stop the push. Note that, I was not voting Lycan, but you.

3. Yes, everywhere except Dunn, true. I ignore players like Dunn, accepting that they'd be lynched on a day like today anyway, while prioritizing others that may have scum intent. I was never convinced by your argument he was scum simply for doing nothing.

4. I think you said it yourself, a team of Shea, Quick, and Gamma make sense to my Town point of view, if I think CES is town. There wasn't anything blaringly scummy about CES, only a smidge. I think your point here isn't valid since you yourself hadn't wanted CES before your pool. If I couldn't see the scumminess of CES from that case, I'm not sure why you did. In a skim of NSG's case, I thought 'this is mostly things I have already thought of myself' as some of her points did mention questions I asked to CES.

5. I'll tell you that a few times I purposely tried to swing people I was publicly scumreading onto wagons, like Quick at the time I was pushing CES. Other times, I simply reconsidered the player. I do understand the use of buddying as a tool, and I use it. Usually, I use it with town reads. In this game, this is a game where I only have one strong town read, and that is Gamma. The only other person I could and would have loved working with is Shea/Quick. Quick never really worked with me when I tried. You took a while.

6. I'm not generally cautious, no. I would like you to give an example of how you think I should have played. Generally, I will push for my scum reads to be lynched. You are right, I don't do the 'I don't think it's Dan anymore... I think it's Shea'. Although you quoted a post of me doing that with Lycanfire... Do you mean that I don't publish that in thread? As in, my thought process when I switched gears? I do agree that I do switch gears at the snap of a hat.

---

In general, this is just my playstyle as town. I care more about leading and finding scum, I've just had plenty of trouble actually finding them. It's more of my reads not being accurate, and I'm constantly flip flopping. Also, Quick is the #1 reason for my confusion as well. This is the first time I have flip flopped this much, most especially on Quick. I do like to buddy, I don't think buddying in and of it self is a scumtell. I do like to lead the town in doing what I want, though. This is true. I have already explained this though, this is me coping with the fact I'm not right, so I try to get it right. Then in the end, I get it wrong anyway. I've noticed that being obviously townie, is not the only skill one should have in mafia, and my reads definetly need polishing. I have scum reads that I want to lynch, that I always change my mind on due to my play style of being whimsical, so I can avoid tunneling and being wrong. Saying this in-game undermines my own credibility in game, but it's already shot due to missing the CES wagon.

Self-Meta:

Family Mafia
Crossover Mafia

[Ranmaru]

Also,

Happy Scum day Ranmaru!

Thanks dude.

[Ranmaru]

Ran you're kind of a riot to read. The way you present your argument ("I ask the town") sounds like a lawyer presenting their case.
The posts you're using as proof Davsto was seem to paint someone who was low on time which is a good reason not to reconsider what he's doing? Actually going back and looking, Davsto spends the entire rest of his posts that day after what you posted speaking with CES and solidifying why CES should be his vote. Why would CES be begging his scum partner in thread to look at other people, does this game not have daytalk? (Checking, scum role pm says daytalk). I can't imagine a universe I would hold it against someone for being told by scum they should be lynching me and the Davsto whispering, 'No'.

It seems like people think these two make sense as scum together but not really with other people? I hate lurking but even with posts like this Dunn triggers me a little less.

The reason I asked him to expand on his Gamma read, was because I highly disagreed with it. So, I wanted to talk to him about it. Yet he couldn't really do it. If I feel I may die at night, then I'd rather argue reads with people I town read at the time so that they can be more 'right'. Davsto wasn't really a 'presence' and seemed to be more like 'beetlejuice' when he has become present. 'Why would CES interact with Davsto if they are both scum?' To seem like they aren't in the first place? Also, you never actually talk about his reasoning for voting CES. What do you think of that?

This is basically rewriting history. :/

Unless Davsto is the worst scum in history I'm sure he could have come up with a reason to attack Gamma

. It seemed like he decided a 250 page iso wasn't worth it compared to what was happening in the now with CES. It's exactly what I would have done and your attempts to get him to iso Gamma are more like what you're saying CES was doing in trying to get him to iso Marqmeis as a distraction. Like I am reading these posts and other then saying a vague scumread at Gamma there's no push from him there. It's like you made a case on why he's a townie.

I disagree, Gamma is obviously town. I've also explained my reasoning for asking him to expand on Gamma. Shadoweh, all this response from you is coming from a mindset that I'm scum before you even consider my analysis, instead of coming from a mindset that I'm neutral and then consider my analysis. I'm saying you are coming from a confirmation bias on myself right now.

[Ranmaru]

Shadoweh, I want you to catch up on the game and give a full reads list, with reasoning.

[Ranmaru]

Unvote

Going to try to form a reads list tonight.

[Ranmaru]

Quick, why do you give Dan the knowledge that you would vote him if he voted elsewhere? All that does is give him knowledge of what no to do if he wants to avoid being voted by you.

[Ranmaru]

How are you reading me today, Quick? What are your reads in general.

[Ranmaru]

What has Creature said about the game?

[Ranmaru]

Shadoweh, can you go more into your read on Dunn and myself? I want you to expand on those. Also, which of Shea's posts make the most sense to you? Can you give me an ordered read list?

[Ranmaru]

(By the way, I give a meta case on Gamma Day 3, I think I strongly backed the reasoning for why I believe Gamma is obvious town, I'd like for you to look at that at least, and tell me what you think)

[Ranmaru]

Yes I do. Now you know my secret.

[Ranmaru]

I was wrong on that. Shea, I replied to your case. Respond to that please.

[Ranmaru]

Quick, how are you reading the Marquis slot today?

[Ranmaru]

When will you have time to respond to it?

[Ranmaru]

Davsto

: I've generally been playing the same since Day 1, just Day 3 I flip flopped a bit more, and pushed more. I want to ask, why do you bring this up today instead of yesterday (Day 3)?

[Ranmaru]

Shea: Why did you welcome Davsto to your towny pile in #703? Do you have time to reply to my response to your case tonight?

[Ranmaru]

Shea, answer my question about your #703. I'll respond to you tonight after work.

[Ranmaru]

Shea: post 3796

1. I didn't push it as hard due to the responses, mostly from Lycanfire, made me feel I was wrong. If I feel I'm wrong I drop things. I don't have the luxury of being informed, so I blindly defend in a manner that taints my image, something against the scum win-condition. Put simply, I didn't push CES as hard because he didn't seem that obvious to me. It's more likely scum take advantage of the situation and bus. Are you speculating that both scum were off the CES wagon, CES? Explain why.

2. That's right, once I find a better direction, I like to switch gears. Of course, note on days like Day 2, I state that my read on Quick is wavering, and I try to talk to him to see his explanation in his play before I move my vote. It's also partly me trying to factor in my team mate's reads with my own, at least I try to without it spilling in thread too much. I'll admit that if A50 hadn't given me his pool, I wouldn't have considered Shea/Lycanfire on Day 2.

3. No, I have been pretty vocal about Marquis having scum intent over dunn just being a lurker, especially with his vote on me, while town reading CES. I can understand having him as null-scum due to his low posting, but not entirely null as Dunn. The difference is that Marquis never actually talked to me to sort me out, he left his vote on me. Marquis was posting more in early game then Dunn, and posted in EOD without really posting before.

4. I was already thinking of giving him the benefit of the doubt since he posted his reads on Marquis and Action Dan, which resonated with me at the time. I didn't think his response was bad at a glance, I'm curious to know why

you

thought it was bad. What meta reasons?

5. Yes, I do use it as scum, and as town. Gamma is right that I tend to lead more as town then scum, as it's hard for me to fake original content and pushes since I would already know who is scum. I buddy so people can work me to work towards the goal of finding scum. I would be testing their reaction. (Getting scumreads on a wagon)

6. When I change my reads, I let the new evidence over-write my previous thoughts. I don't always weigh my reads before changing, I just change on gut/reaction in the short term. Which makes sense. Just note my change on Gamma. Look at what I say before then, and then understand I was reacting to events in the short term. It may be because i'm impulsive (and that may be a weakness of my play I need to temper), and post what I'm thinking in the moment.

[Ranmaru]

Let's talk about my point of view with Gamma. Remember that he (not just him though) didn't follow me on CES when I pushed for him. It rubbed me off as wrong to see Quick, then Gamma, and then you vote when you were all not interested in his wagon earlier. #3211, #3181,
#3152. Especially since I tried to gain the votes of Gamma and Quick and both weren't on board with me. That was my point of view there. CES flipping scum, makes it more likely that I was originally correct on Gamma. In the three man scum team of Shea-Quick-Gamma, he would be the one that would least likely fit in my mind (since there are only three scum and CES flipped scum), so obviously I don't think what I said meta wise the second time applies. Again, it was all sparked by Quick's weird push on me with reference to my Gamma read, but I realize now that again, I was just wrong.

[Ranmaru]

Gamma I have already explained.

Action Dan's #3576 gave me town vibes. I do get the feeling he's trying to re-evaluate, he's just stuck re-evaluating within his nulls, and not his town reads. I also like Dan's #3765. It shows that he's fine changing his mind even when Quick is threatening to vote him if he does. Scum would be more wary.

Shadoweh I find null-town, simply due to her change of read on myself. I didn't expect that today. I don't have much else to read her by, Marquis never really talked to me, he just plopped his vote on me.

Quick, I like his play today. Doesn't seem confusing at all today, crystal clear. I also like his 'it's me or dunn' post.

Dunnstral is null-scum, due to his association (or lack of) to CES. My concern is still with him not coming onto the CES wagon, when he was a null.

[Ranmaru]

#265

#730

Full case on dunn coming tomorrow.

Also, my team has told me I'm being a child re: LQ and that I should at least go through his last post of things I have supposedly "missed" and show how they're nonsense, so expect that tomorrow also.

Like I tried to go through LQs wall this morning and I couldn't bring myself to do so.

Like I ISOd dunn and didn't think anyone would vote him based off of the things I see pretty clearly.

I hate when I read someones iso and I'm so sure before hand that they're scum but then after reading through I have to conclude that its mostly gut.

I don't especially expect anyone to follow my gut.

#3063

The case isn't very good but CES' reaction to it borders on atrocious.

Have you been paying literally attention to LQ this game? Have you been paying literally any attention to ANYTHING in this game besides marquis?

Because I've had to do that like 5 times.

VOTE: ces

L-1.

If we lynch dunn/marquis/ces/NSG we win the game.

#3778



---

Postie thoughts on Shea:
#1321
#1423
#1440
#1449


Postie thoughts on Davsto:
#1111



---
Llamarble on Davsto scum:
#725
#737
#1066
#1067

---

Shea's Defense:
#1673
#1674
#3481

[Ranmaru]

In general, Shea pushes Gamma without trying to understand his argument. His defense to not considering Gamma was that he was just holding that in to see reactions, but I don't think it's a valid defense. Shea tends to push people for ignoring him, yet he does the same to me when I ask about his Davsto read. He responds to his catch up as 'town' yet oddly takes a while to respond to me when I address him. Only after I talk to Llama about it, does he address me the second time. His vote on CES is actually suspect to me. I think people can see it, they are just blinded by the wagon I created to counter CES. It makes sense for Shea to vote his

null town

read after he sees a ton of pressure going in CES's way. Even I was shocked to see Quick and Gamma voting CES, so I would think scum would take this opportunity to seem town from CES's down fall. That is what Shea's vote was. Shea doesn't really do much with his 'town leader' status, he simply pushes for [Dunn, NSG, Marquis] one of which already flipped town. He also has confidence in Dunn being scum yet he can't even case him. In conclusion, he's scum for looking the part of town that is actively contributing Day 1, but sits back Day 2 (voting Eddie) and Day 3. His vote on CES was very late, and more likely him taking the opportunity to look good on CES's scum flip.

Davsto I have already explained. In general, his vote on CES was weak. Also note that Shea seemed to town read Davsto when Llama was confused why Shea was so willing to invite him to the town pile. This is why I was asking him to explain the town read on Davesto. Davsto is also consistent with WGEURTZ, both fall flat and don't seem to have much presence, and he seems to stall quite a lot. Also note that Shea yells at Davsto for not reading the thread, but never cares to mention this to Shadoweh. Shea is getting lazy.

[Ranmaru]

TOWN [Ranmaru > Lycanfire > Gamma > Action Dan > Quick > Shadoweh > Dunnstral > Davsto > Shea] SCUM

Vote: Shea

[Ranmaru]

One of Shea/Davsto is my lylo stack vote if I am mislynched today.

[Ranmaru]

You know this makes sense to me as well, I've gotten the feeling throughout the game he has been sending people out on little excursion to distract from

actual scumhunting

See this is why I need people to give reasons for their town reads, because Im pretty much accepting anything here at this point

Can you explain how you think I haven't doing this? If so, what is what I've done in my previous posts?

[Ranmaru]

That does not answer the question why Dunn deserves to get to LyLo.

We don't win the game depending on if Dunn deserves it or not, we win it by lynching scum. I think Shea + Davsto are the scum, and we only have two opportunities to lynch Shea/Davsto.

[Ranmaru]

Mnaaaah I need this to actually sort people so like, please do this

I want to see you do this too, and respond to my defense to shea. I want to see what you think. Then, I want you to explain your reads on Shea and Davsto.

[Ranmaru]

Going to sleep, more later after work. Also my left hand hurts, so don't expect any in depth posts from me.

[Ranmaru]

LQ is it weird that I responded to a thought you had and then you stated you were caught up and that you were open for questions but completely ignored that like the LAST POST had been a thought directed at you?

Or is it just me that I think that's weird.

Asking for four friends.

what were your motivations for that conversation with me? it felt like you were trying to see if you could poke around and find traction to start getting a wagon on me, but no one jumped on it so you abandoned it and moved on. you've thrown a lot of shade my way but have avoided attacking me directly. I think that's kind of what lycan was getting at, and I think its pretty clearly true.

so I'll ask you this: are you scum reading me, and if so: why arent you voting me?

I consider what people say about their play, but I don't let people tell me why they're doing the things they do because people lie. You know damn well I know you're quick and I believe I've told you that I've read your wiki, but I also recall you have something of a poor memory, so I forgive you for not remembering that.

The problem with your actions is that the things you're doing also have significant scum motivations. Regardless of if you think you're doing them for other reasons, I'm not in your head, and I can't just trust you.

And I also am starting to be pretty sure you're scum because you're poking and drawing almost no reasonable conclusions. You start long discussions with me about nonsense about how reck is using different tools to find reads, and then disengage as soon as I try to explain. That's the biggest problem here. You're poking, but you don't seem to care about the responses to your pokes. At least not from the people you're poking. You seem to be singularly interested in the responses of other players, which makes me think you're more interested in finding where you can find an easy lynch, and not concerned about finding the correct lynch. This squares quite nicely with your vote on marquis also, which you have not fully explained after naked voting. It's nice to be on the highest vote getter who happens to not be posting much.

Actually, literally all the votes on marquis right now are atrocious.

Here is the quote for you pushing those ignoring you shea. I ask questions to clarify an earlier thought, while already having the case made. I do it when I have less time, and can get who I am suspecting to talk more. Can't respond in depth right now, sorry.

[Ranmaru]

I do agree with Shea's #3884. I also want to see Davsto's full reads list.

[Ranmaru]

Thinking Davsto is town overall but Ranmaru am I nuts or is this what you called me for in Family Mafia?

It was but more of you parroting that reasoning. It's like scumreading Cam in that game for what she said.

[Ranmaru]

I am curious why Dunn is voting for Quick.

[Ranmaru]

I'm not feeling a Dan wagon. I'm willing to compromise to Dunn and Shadoweh, as they are the next lowest besides Shea and Davsto.

[Ranmaru]

Shadoweh, how do you feel about a Dunn wagon? Also, has Marquis reacted to CES's flip in your PT before he replaced? Wondering about that. (Since he town read CES)

[Ranmaru]

Dan, you let me down by voting lynchbait.

How is that any different then voting and pushing for Dunn?

[Ranmaru]

Shadoweh: Why don't you want to vote me anymore, Shadoweh?

[Ranmaru]

Quick, what's your read on Shadoweh right now?

[Ranmaru]

come on guys this is fucking obvious.

I generally preach a compromise pool of four people (Note on Day 2 I even suggested people to use a bottom for in terms of compromises). You had a pool of three people, Day 3, and lynched outside of it. It's no different then that.

[Ranmaru]

We are in danger of not getting a lynch off and the points made against Ran makes sense and this is another good point. I will hammer Ran if that is what it takes to get a lynch off.

What is your read on Shadoweh?

[Ranmaru]

Why haven't you tried to fix that.

[Ranmaru]

Reads:

Town

Davsto
North
Gamma
Dan
Shea
Lycan

Scum

Marquis
Ran
Dunn

Hopefully that is black and white enough for people.

What changed from here to there.

[Ranmaru]

Alright Shea. Here's what I'm thinking right now. I'm starting to waver on my town read of Quick. You say that whenever I start to switch gears, that I don't try to sort them, or determine their alignment, yet I am asking Quick questions, and I do note that he side steps each one. Yet, I note that Quick has been pushing Dunn, avoiding giving reads on anyone else. Note that, this is very different than his past play. I will say that I don't usually like to give out my thoughts in the moment when I am wavering, I just like to ask questions and then post my reads list. Today it seemed more tuned to just having a case on Dunn and pushing him. He's willing to compromise to Dan, and Me, but not Shadoweh. What do you think of his vote on Dan? Why are you ignoring his actions? If you are town, I want you to consider that, you are trying to condemn me (who has been obvious town, but was muddied by CES's flip) yet, you ignore someone who seemed suspicious at first, but got better to you due to 'stupidity'. I want us to talk about that. Even if I get lynched today.

I'm stating in the open that I'm not confident in my reads right now. I think it's possible you (Shea, Davsto) are a team, but i'm also considering (Quick, Marquis) as a team as well. Dunn is a hard one because all I have is his vote on Quick when he town read him earlier. So that's what I'm thinking, right now. Anyway, If there is a post you'd really like me to reply to, or any thoughts you want to poke out of my brain, I'm willing to give that.

[Ranmaru]

Shea

: On my town flip, who would you look into and why?

[Ranmaru]

I'm not upset, I was just curious as to why. Generally Marquis had a town read on me, but after had a scumread on me but never talked to me or tried to work with me or consider what I said. You are, so I'm liking you. I'm also liking your recent posts about LQ, especially if he is scum. (Earlier on your slot had interactions with Quick that made it seem like you and him were partners, but by now you seem committed to it, I would feel you would have to switch if you were scum with him at this moment)

[Ranmaru]

Quick: Why aren't you pushing Dunn right now? There is support for it. Voting Dan distracts from you lynching Dunn.

[Ranmaru]

Instead of answering my questions directly, you give a quote that doesn't answer my question in depth. Multiple times.

I mean Dunn is voting Dan for fucks sake. Dan was the one guy that North said they could be wrong on IIRC. More opportunism from Dunn. It's obvious as shit in a urinal that Dunn is Scum here.

I don't see why you use NSG to push Dan, when she scumread Shea, then Dunnstral. What do you think of her Shea read?

[Ranmaru]

Quick: On my town flip, does your read change on Shea?

[Ranmaru]

Lycanfire, why do you think Lickitquick voted Dan then?

[Ranmaru]

I hate to say this because it means I was wrong, but I think the shea wagon is a Scum driven wagon.

So, if I flip town, why does your read on Shea remain unchanged.

[Ranmaru]

Quick, answer my question.

[Ranmaru]

There's plenty of support for it, so it may swing my way. So I want to talk reads with people in case that happens. Example, with Quick, he has been pushing Shea all game, but when I make a counter wagon on Shea, suddenly, that read is gone. So that is why I ask him when I flip town, if his read on Shea changes. Also, I didn't have time to actually review anything, that's why I just outright stated who I thought was scum upon the game opening. When I saw CES's flip, I knew that it may be possible I may be mislynched today. So yes, I'm aware it makes me look bad, and I'm doing what I can to help in spite of that. I'm also giving others the opportunity to try to see the game from my perspective.

[Ranmaru]

I am. I'm considering a pool of [Quick, Shea, Davsto].

[Ranmaru]

In general, I think Quick's play this game has been confusing, and hasn't really been focused on pro-town results. I think his vote on Dan is bad. Note that there have been multiple times that Quick dropped his read on Shea with little to no reasoning, and Shea has as well, done the same with Quick's slot. So I do see it as likely that they may be scum. The quote that Shadoweh re-posted, shows my main problem with both of them: They seemed more interested in interacting in that manner rather then actually listen to what I was saying (which was, vote dan).

Unvote; Vote: LQ

[Ranmaru]

Davsto, what's your full reads list.

[Ranmaru]

I do think it's Shea. Yet, I don't think others see that. Just vote me today.

[Ranmaru]

What I want people to remember is: Davsto tunnels me, but never gives a full reads list. Think about if this is natural for Davsto. Meta him even.

[Ranmaru]

Once you guys see my Town flip, it'll most likely shed the light on Shea. Do note that he never responded to me trying to talk to him and have him try to see things from my perspective.

[Ranmaru]

No.

[Ranmaru]

Just vote me Gamma.

[Ranmaru]

Yes, yes it is.

If Dunn/Ran had instead voted Shadoweh disaster may have had a chance to be averted. But this is practically about to force me to vote Ran.

Your problem is that you are town reading scum. Hopefully when you see my flip, it might make you reconsider.

[Ranmaru]

I don't think Quick's push on him is genuine, after his vote on Dan. I am not confident in Dunn being scum, so I'd rather die today so people can vote Shea tomorrow (with my lylo stack vote).

[Ranmaru]

I think Quick and Shea may be a team. Davsto is a hard one because he hasn't really done much besides have his focus entirely on me as well. I think scum is within there. Quick is just the one with more support, yet if we can't get him today, then we may be out of luck tomorrow.

[Ranmaru]

Dunn isn't as informative as I am. I'm not voting Shadoweh.

[Ranmaru]

Gamma, you trying to see support for Dunn instead of me is very town. You are obvious town and all Shea has you as is his weakest town read. You'll notice too late that he is scum.

[Ranmaru]

Then vote me Dan. Time is short. My vote will be on Shea for Lylo.

[Ranmaru]

In some order, we are lynching Tchill, the entire Gamma wagon (CES AD LQ) and Eddie.
Scum are going to NK TSQ, Me and / or Postie, NSG / Ran
That's 5 lynches; we get 6. If we haven't won the game with those 5, the people still alive at that point can reevaluate.
If somehow those 5 players are all town, then well played scum. Team would have to be like Marquis Postie NSG or something.
In fairness, NSG scum is more plausible than I was thinking; her ISO is essentially just some reads and reasons.
NSG mostly works on Eddie and CES teams and such though.

The lylo that would leave is:
Marquis
Dunnstral
Lycan
Davsto
Gamma

Give whoever you lynch the day before lylo (CES if he makes it that far) the right to pick the lylo lynch if they flip town. Otherwise elect somebody to control all the lylo votes.
Town MUST all 3 get it right, if game goes to lylo, so they need some preexisting mechanism to agree and stack their votes or else scum have a 90% chance of winning in 2/3 lylo.
And once again, do not assume someone who lacks a good possible buddy must be town. I was universally scumread in Whiteflag 1 and won as scum because Mith distanced from me successfully and it looked like nobody could be my partner.

I can see LQ flipping town. I can see AD flipping town, maybe. I can see Tchill flipping town if all the scum are on the gamma wagon.
CES I can't really see flipping town here, but I'm also too lazy and not reliable enough at reading him to try to lynch him D1. If alive in lylo, all votes go on him please.
Eddie is probably where my next big timechunk of reading should go.

Put simply I want to set things up D1 to ensure a town win, so I am thinking a few moves ahead. I don't have a very long shelf life as town.
Your post essentially says "I find it annoying that you're thinking far ahead." Which offers even less value than my post
Lynch math - 15 -> 13 -> 11 -> 9 -> 7 -> 5 = 5 lynches; if we've hit scum with those 5 we get an additional lynch.

[Ranmaru]

I would elect Gamma, but he may die in the night.

[Ranmaru]

No, we're not doing that.

[Ranmaru]

Also, forget what I said about Davsto's read list thing, I missed his post giving one.

[Ranmaru]

Alright, besides Gamma, who should I elect Lycanfire. I want you involved in this process as I'm not solid on the rest of my town reads.

[Ranmaru]

Then I elect either Gamma or Shadoweh.

[Ranmaru]

Dan, are there any reads you'd like to talk to me about. Tell me more about your Shea read.

[Ranmaru]

Alright guys, got our first.

Wanna actually address my issues with you rather than say "got our first"? Or do you just want to throw shade?

I actually didn't like his push on Gamma.

[Ranmaru]

I think the quote just gets to the point of why I dislike it, he pushes Gamma and then Gamma shows that he made a mistake, but Shea isn't interested in reconsidering due to this, which shows that he is interested more in pushing rather then understanding. I disagree with his push at all, as I can see Gamma's reasoning as something people use from Mafia Universe.

[Ranmaru]

@Ran I would happily kill either LQ or Tchill. Right now there is a wagon on one of them and not on the other. I have pretty high confidence in my scum reads on both of them, so I don't see why it makes sense for me to switch over to LQ at this time unless the wagon moved over there for some reason independent of me.

[Ranmaru]

VOTE: EddieFenix

I think that LQ being scum mostly makes sense from the perspective of tchill being scum. If tchill isn't scum a lot of LQs actions on that wagon look a lot better.

Willing to throw some muscle behind postie's push. I think the case makes a lot of sense.

Not really wanting to go after marquis. But if he tries to lurk through this day too I want him to eat rope really quick.

[Ranmaru]

You know what.

Fuck you

VOTE: LQ

I don't give a fuck if you're town I'm not playing with you anymore.

I LITERALLY DID VOTE COUNT ANALYSIS IN THE FUCKING POST THAT YOU'RE CLAIMING SAYS VOTE COUNT ANALYSIS IS BAD.

LITERALLY.

FUCKING LITERALLY.

IN THE SAME POST.

YOU ARE LITERALLY FUCKING CLAIMING THAT I AM SAYING "VOTE COUNT ANALYSIS IS NOT CORRECT SO I AM GOING TO NOW DO SOME VOTE COUNT ANALYSIS.

Yeah, you did it to get a Town read on me, someone who is such a wild card it doesn't even matter if I am a TR or not.

Where are you doing this to find Scum, Shea?

I LITERALLY DID VOTE COUNT ANALYSIS IN THE FUCKING POST THAT YOU'RE CLAIMING SAYS VOTE COUNT ANALYSIS IS BAD.

LITERALLY.

FUCKING LITERALLY.

IN THE SAME POST.

YOU ARE LITERALLY FUCKING CLAIMING THAT I AM SAYING "VOTE COUNT ANALYSIS IS NOT CORRECT SO I AM GOING TO NOW DO SOME VOTE COUNT ANALYSIS.

Yeah, you did it to get a Town read on me, someone who is such a wild card it doesn't even matter if I am a TR or not.

Where are you doing this to find Scum, Shea?

fuck you.

[Ranmaru]

Notice how Shea's read on LQ wanes from D1 until D3, to just town and never wants to reconsider. They are both scum.

[Ranmaru]

Dan, talk to me about LQ. Dunnstral, get your vote on LQ.

[Ranmaru]

Yes.

[Ranmaru]

LQ why are you getting cold feet on Dunn now?

Note that LQ didn't push Dunn as hard as he could have, he voted Dan which actually distracted from his own push. So, whenever he said 'I'm not answering this question because it distracts from lynching Dunn', he was bullshitting. Vote LQ.

[Ranmaru]

Now we need Dan and Dunnstral.

[Ranmaru]

I think scum can be sensible and/or obtuse. It depends on what they want to do. Notice LQ and Shea are on opposite spectrums, but it doesn't stop them from having a red PM. Dunn, vote one of LQ/Me right now as there isn't enough support for Shea. I support Shea, I'm not sure if anyone else does.

[Ranmaru]

Example: Shea seems to be sensible, yet he allowed himself to be riled up by LQ in the above interaction which caused him to vote him. LQ has voted his town reads multiple times. He's voted ME when he was town reading me, instead of working with me to push his scum read, Shea.

[Ranmaru]

OK, so what I am seeing here is pretty much the same type of thing that happened to Chill and Screen, namely, that there is a single wagon with very little resistance and not really any other wagons to speak of.

I got what I wanted out of the Eddie wagon, so it's time to move on.

I'm going here to see what happens. I have some shallow reasoning for this vote, but it's more just to see what happens:

VOTE: Ranmaru

[Ranmaru]

Gamma, what's your read on Shea? Ask SS as well.

[Ranmaru]

Go more into why you don't feel Shea is scum. Tell me what you think of his vote on CES, and his push on me today.

[Ranmaru]

Yes. He also didn't have CES in his pool until that very point, which makes more sense as scum taking advantage of a bus rather then town just jumping on at the last minute.

[Ranmaru]

Unvote; Vote: Shea

[Ranmaru]

I'm not lynching ces over dunn nsg and marquis.

[Ranmaru]

Dan, be the hero that we all need.

[Ranmaru]

Nice that you seem to come out when a wagon pops up on you but when people are scrambling to secure a lynch, you aren't saying as much.

[Ranmaru]

As scum, you are in a position where you wouldn't need to take the option of Gamma or LQ. You were just sitting on me the whole time.