Team Mafia 2018: Game 3 - Random GIFs Game Over

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hey

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Mathdino - Today at REDACTED PM
basic notes on players alignment preferences incoming
T-Bone: Prefers town. viewtopic.php?p=6677902#p6677902
For some reason doesn't like Normals: viewtopic.php?p=6689296#p6689296
Mathdino - Today at REDACTED PM
CDB: no preference
Bulbazak: no preference
A50: clear scum advantage over teammates
Keychain vastly prefers town
UCV said he sucks at town in december but also thinks he's gotten great at town

@T-Bone:

Why are you here?

@UCV:

Convince me you're better at town than scum. Cuz honestly I don't see any of the rest of your team voluntarily picking scum.
Also I fully expect

Creature

to be reading this thread in particular. Don't care about other threads but please make sure he reads this.

you missed me you cunt

(ill help you out: i prefer playing town but my scum win rate is much higher)

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PREGAME iMPRESsiONS TiME #CONTENT

T-Bone, From Young and Beautiful - haven't played with you in ... a long time.
Lady Lambdadelta , From DEFCON - one of the best players. also one of the biggest egos. actively expect i'll get in a shouting match with lld at some point.
Keychain, From Team Cuddly - we were gonna have you <3 i'll let giga meta you. newish, goodish, townish.
Aeronaut, From Relaxed Nature - meh
ChannelDelibird, From God Save the Black Goo - meh
Bins, From Make Papa Proud - meh
Dunkerdoodles, From Chillplay Bombahskiies - ew. probably town because he's complete lynchbait and #teammeta i don't think boon would give him scum
Bulbazak, From Queue Agents - good.php
Smocaine, From Who is John Galt? - the best kind of lynchbait.
Mathdino, From Serious Business - good.php. tryhard iirc. haven't played much.
Radja, From Dandy Irate Hoes - last game we played they subbed out due to irl and havent since . ? i
Elena Fisher, From Backhanded Remarks - mariAAAAAA
UC Voyager, From Spam Squad - roflcopter
Almost50, From Sauciety - good player that i dont really know much about other than they generally seem good ?


this concludes a useless post

who wants to play the game of would.this.person.have.taken.a.scum.pm with me?

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I would take scum if we rolled scum (lol we all rolled town I stg not that you know that) if we valued winning over everything because I have a significantly better scum wr than my team afaik, but I wouldn't if we were playing more socially and for fun.

I adamantly believe Keychain and Dunker are town off of this game, Radja I guess I agree. Bins from what I remember hates scum so yea that's fine too. Don't know CDB or T-Bone play-wise at all so no comment.

UCV... I guess. No clue for bulba. LLD, A50, Smoke, definitely realistic for scum. I haven't actually seen A50s scum game I don't think, but iirc Chara said A50 is their scummer?

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Thoughts on how likely teams were to factor "will people THINK i picked town" into picking scum?

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I can tell you straight up if we had rolled a scum pm I would have not wanted to take it. We didn't regardless which is good because none of us wanted it. Probably would've given it to Transcend tbh

That said, that means little. I chose this game because normal, I like setup speccing in normals, and I think I can mod meta mhsmith setups at least a little better than Ether because I know from theory discussions mhsmith has a similar sense of balance as me.

Does bins not hate scum? I could've sworn they said that in the paint mafia scum chat? Fair enough.

Link the T bone thread?

TBF, SK isn't really scum. Its more like horse shit, though it plays more like town.

I would still like to call Keychain and Dunker close to lock town on no basis, especially the former.

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I think people would expect me to prefer town but I don't think that's very true.

Skirt skirt. Which game are you referring to?
Mathdino: what are you basing my preference on? We havent played together, have we?

I don't want to say because it isn't on an alt I have released. Sorry. It was an open.

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BTW, hard townread Mathdino. Keychain town too. Maria null, Radja very slight town lean.

We have the deadest game so far

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VOTE: almost50


theres a difference between spamming (lmfao ethers game) and posting a lot. i am a very active poster, i like to sort people with real-time interactions

also, i don't know about the italicized really, but she is good at scum yea. giga did agree keychain is good at scum, but she really doesn't like it. though, i supposed based on their team they dont have anyone i consider overly likely to pick scum. guess i wont lock town them, but they can be town for now.

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I'm interested in your Elena nullread, I'm leaning more scum there.

I was giving reads on all 4 people who had posted because lolcontent, they're the only one i didn't have a reason to townread.

Transcend is three for three on reading me if you need more help and aren't just scum. And I have had scum games I've enjoyed, I should point out.

This is cute though <3 I don't even know you afaik!

we've only played once and i was on an alt, we were talking in our team chat about who to get as our 5th though and you were brought up a lot. in the end you were on another team anyways. same with guiltylion, actually. i'll let transcend and giga do the you reading for me, though i don't know if trans will end up reading not-his game.

Paint 2? I didn't think either scum chat was released.

I swear I saw bins!scum somewhere recently in a scum pt saying they wanted town. Fuck.

Bins

, please clarify if I'm remembering right when you get here.

Help me read skirt?

good luck. this is a relatively recent alt, so if you want to meta me games on here work though they aren't games i'm proud of mostly. or go check out Eddie Cane.

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I think people would expect me to prefer town but I don't think that's very true.

Skirt skirt. Which game are you referring to?
Mathdino: what are you basing my preference on? We havent played together, have we?

I don't want to say because it isn't on an alt I have released. Sorry. It was an open.

Is this your main or not?

This is my current main, yes. Eddie Cane is what I'm known by mostly.

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Yea, I agree

What do you think of everonye who's posted? I've said my stuff

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VOTE: lld

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i wonder if you're going to call me out for being too agreeing or if you have something more interesting cooked up

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My last couple mafia games bar the most recent I got in massive arguments that made the games extremely toxic. As far as on this site goes, see Beneath the Mask (or older ones) (shoutout Mathblade). The too-friendly tell only works on garbage players, because they are typically afraid to step on toes. I'm going to be nice here, sorry. You aren't "lock town" persay, but you are the page 2 version of lock town to me yes. I agree with most of your thoughts. I sheeped you because building wagons is pro town and I hadn't placed a vote yet.

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Skirt mimics your answers, sure, and that's not nearly as big of an issue as his lack of CONVICTION in doing so. I would expect a town player to either hard agree or hard disagree when you take a stance like you did, but he kind of.... sat the fence, tonally and content wise.

viewtopic.php?f=84&t=73125
viewtopic.php?f=53&t=72998

You don't like meta, cool. Don't townread me for a lack of conviction. But, those are my most recent scum games; showing conviction and posting confidently as scum is easy, you know that as a competent scumread. Please don't scumread me for dogshit.

VOTE: A50

LLD town after further consideration.

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#SheepingMathDino

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Skirt mimics your answers, sure, and that's not nearly as big of an issue as his lack of CONVICTION in doing so. I would expect a town player to either hard agree or hard disagree when you take a stance like you did, but he kind of.... sat the fence, tonally and content wise.

viewtopic.php?f=84&t=73125
viewtopic.php?f=53&t=72998

You don't like meta, cool. Don't townread me for a lack of conviction. But, those are my most recent scum games; showing conviction and posting confidently as scum is easy, you know that as a competent scumread. Please don't scumread me for dogshit.

VOTE: A50

LLD town after further consideration.

In Team Mafia it also traps you into a specific view point on the other teams and their choices. We're 5 connected games, remember?

A lot of reactions are based on position, much like poker. I feel that with regards to your position there I expect town to lock themselves in more, similar to how MathDino did.

Sidebar: I go to a poker club and play with some friends, haha. Sidebar2: the poker equivalent of meta is very relevant :lenny:

I am locking myself into positions; I gave reads as early as possible, to generate content. That's generally how I like to play early game; I focus more on creating content to play with. I think you're town because I think you think I'm a rando/trash and you are using newbtells on me. Based on newbtells, I'm scum. More garbage wifom reading I can't back up: I initially reaction voted you because I figured town!you would be smart enough to sort me as town here and I entirely planned that if you came into the thread and voted me you'd be scum. Garbage wifom #3: math's comment made me think, and to expand I don't think scum!lld takes a scum pm in a normal game because there's confirmed not godfathers or role fuckery, a cop is moderately likely, and everyone will be suspecting you to draw scum. Also though, your perspective makes sense. I don't really think I can be meta read so that's perfectly valid, though I welcome people to try.

I'm also self aware enough to know the above paragraph is dogshit and also worthy of a scumread. I'm posting it anyways. I also entirely expect dunker to be town and to enter the thread voting me. Then I expect him to talk to Boon, who will correctly sort me as town, and unvote. I expect MathDino to vote me after this post. I expect you to consider unvoting me, but not do it. I expect Maria to townread me. Just opened another tab and saw outstanding questions, so I'll answer those now.

Actually, this is important.

@skirtskirt

: Please indicate exactly how much your teammates have been contributing to your game since gamestart. Who/what/where/how.

I have been contributing to my teammates games. They have not read this thread. Their only contribution has been me asking about Keychain.

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Oh, you asked Who. Just Giga and JJ. Transcend has not talked in chat and Lycan is asleep I think.

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Hey just so everyone's aware (and this is near the pagetop so all of team mafia can see it):

PROBABILITIES FOR TEAM COMPOSITION

Crunched some numbers. From a spectator's standpoint, a random team has a:

33% chance of getting all 5 town.
41% chance of getting 4 town 1 scum.
20% chance of getting 3 town 2 scum.
5% chance of getting 2 town 3 scum.
Negligible probabilities otherwise.

I'm currently toying with the idea that

going out of your way to tell people

"My team got all 5 town PMs"

without being prompted to answer this kind of question

is a scumclaim.

Will letcha know if I've made any progress on this.

Edit: skirt's response is concerning, yeah. I want more eyes.

every team is going to say they are all town. there is virtually no benefit to saying otherwise.

SKIRT. Why are you nullifying your own ability to read people by fucking

predicting what they're going to do?

/r/iamverysmart

(the real answer is :X you can sr or dumb read me for it if you want)

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can we get back on topic?

wtf is 54 relevant for lmao

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The benefit you're thinking of is that one of my teammates will flip town and I'll look better, right? I will drop it.

I spoke to my team about whos read this game just for you baby

transcend called dino town, giga eyerolled at lld's scumread of me and called them gut town

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I spoke to my team about whos read this game just for you baby

transcend called dino town, giga eyerolled at lld's scumread of me and called them gut town

This seems very shallow.

The deep end was removed due to an elderly person drowning. It was a very sad event.

-


So I'm going to be the first wagon of the game it seems. Interesting. Its just past 3 am and I have a lecture at 9, so I'll take my leave.

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LLD: My preliminary lunch-break skimread of the skirt stuff is that it’s weird that he’s acting like his who-picked-scum theorising started here in this thread rather than in his team PT. Your criticism of his levels of conviction is reasonable. Caveat: I don’t know him at all and I can’t remember if I know anything about his team. Agree that mathdino looks very town.

More in-depth read of the game coming this evening as promised.

Ah, god. The amount I want Mathdino to be town.

VOTE: skirt
No second skirt for you.

I have other suspects but they haven't posted yet and I feel I should give them the chance to do that.

The reason I don't like the "My entire team rolled town" is because I just can't trust it. No one should trust it and I don't think it's worth saying, even if your team did roll all town. Just based on numbers and odds, it's not going to help you. And it definitely isn't a good defence. When I draw out my table and my reads, no matter what you say, I'm going to start with the idea that each team has one scum unless my reads prove otherwise.

There are three situations here:

1) You aren't lying and everyone on your team is scum.
2) You are lying and you are town and someone on your team is scum. You're trying to save their ass, maybe. Pre-emptive, but sure.
3) You are lying and you are scum.

2 is the weird one because there are teams in the game that know you are lying, because they have scum partners with someone on your team. Therefore, I feel the only position you can say this in is 1/3.

Not sure if you agree with this Math, but I'm not sure.

I really don't have any townreads based on Meta on who would pick town.
I have a few better suspects but they haven't posted yet and I'd like to wait for that because I want to avoid 1v1s before I sort my thoughts. I have a lot of pages to read in other games still.

I'm also not sure I fully trust Maria. Just based on her team and who would pick scum. I need to read the other games.

I think the best argument for "my whole team is town" being scum is thst when one of my teammates flips town I look better. I think that's what mathdinkle was getting at too.

btw, smocaine, mathdinkle isn't MathBlade. I would have game swapped if it was.

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okay I have a gift for you Matheson!
transcend
read
the
game
!!!!
the below is paraphrased from transy cause idt we can copy logs

"usually i have a correct snapread on keychain but I dont. leaning town, maybe 75%.
bins maybe town
radja looks town
don't like channels vote
no idea how to read Elena, gun to head town
419 scumclaim"


I don't actually understand what transcend means by 419 I asked him, not how any of cdbs posts are scum claims, but :shrug:

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LLD: My preliminary lunch-break skimread of the skirt stuff is that it’s weird that he’s acting like his who-picked-scum theorising started here in this thread rather than in his team PT. Your criticism of his levels of conviction is reasonable. Caveat: I don’t know him at all and I can’t remember if I know anything about his team. Agree that mathdino looks very town.

More in-depth read of the game coming this evening as promised.

oh, probably this because it was referring to cdb. you should go read my town hydra games, I always think in the thread not in pts.

VOTE: CDB why not

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noticed you, nothing to say tho. boon is probably the closest to being able to meta me out of anyone in team mafia I think, w eve played a ton. and, I know boon is the kind of player to follow all 5 games assuming he isn't too busy with work.

math, the game is 12 town instead of 10. the more disparity the worse it is for scum to lurk because there's more townies and more potential for cohesion by consequence. I don't value the advantage of lurking because you also haven't had a chance to towntell.

back to dunker: what about mathdink pings you?

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I would still like to call Keychain and Dunker close to lock town on no basis, especially the former.

O feel you on KC, but why Dunker?

cause apparently i'm so bad my team wouldn't give me scum

I don't think youd want scum, not that your team would disallow it. ITA was real... real bad. As town I've seen your reads be decent excluding me when weve played (lolcat).

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but iirc Chara said A50 is their scummer?

I'll probably stop arguing regarding this matter, but ask Chara if they would say they could reliably predict what I'd do had my team rolled a Scum role at all! I mean, having just won as SK I would expect investigative roles to be all over me just in case. This means it'd be suicidal for me to pick a scum role to begin with. I don't want to get into hypothetical claims, so I;m not going to ask anyone to out there target if they were Cop. Just answer it to yourself and decide if it would be wise for me to volunteer to play a Scum role to begin with.

Suffice it to say, if I was Scum and there's a Cop I'm likely caught on N1. It won't be even for anything wrong I'd do. It'd be because many players (including my own hydra p) are promoting me as a good scum player, but neglecting to say I'm also clever enough not to pick a scum role -under the circumstances- if given the choice.

I want to place KeyChain in the Town lean pile for now.

Almost Chara. I correctly towned you until CHEET.. .. .. .. That game Chara said that you were the significantly better one as scum, and that chara everyone thought was good at scum but that had no backing.

irrelevancy aside, we are past rvs so this is an unimportant path to go down. I'm policy copping lld over you if I'm a cop, no offense. you've given very little in your posts. start with what your take is on me v lld v math?

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UNVOTE:

eddie i feel like you're not playing like you normally would be
like i've seen you usually have kinda a care-free, freeflowing style kinda like me

but this game you have a lot less posts and your tone seemed to be more like precise i guess? if you get what im saying

any reason for this?

I know exactly what you mean. I don't think team mafia is the place for my shitposting style. Nor my spam or rxn test styles. I'm trying to make sure this doesn't devolve into one of the games I get into a massive 1v1 and create a toxic gamestate, you've been in 1 or 2 games with me where that's happened recently I think. If you'll notice, I'm also trying to compile posts instead of multiposting.

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Oh, you asked Who. Just Giga and JJ. Transcend has not talked in chat and Lycan is asleep I think.

Please confirm (as my memory is failing as usual), but you were in the last Alisae game and were in the 4-headed hydra? And if so, are you Eddie Cane?

yes to both

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yea dunker town

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but iirc Chara said A50 is their scummer?

I'll probably stop arguing regarding this matter, but ask Chara if they would say they could reliably predict what I'd do had my team rolled a Scum role at all! I mean, having just won as SK I would expect investigative roles to be all over me just in case. This means it'd be suicidal for me to pick a scum role to begin with. I don't want to get into hypothetical claims, so I;m not going to ask anyone to out there target if they were Cop. Just answer it to yourself and decide if it would be wise for me to volunteer to play a Scum role to begin with.

Suffice it to say, if I was Scum and there's a Cop I'm likely caught on N1. It won't be even for anything wrong I'd do. It'd be because many players (including my own hydra p) are promoting me as a good scum player, but neglecting to say I'm also clever enough not to pick a scum role -under the circumstances- if given the choice.

I want to place KeyChain in the Town lean pile for now.

Almost Chara. I correctly towned you until CHEET.. .. .. .. That game Chara said that you were the significantly better one as scum, and that chara everyone thought was good at scum but that had no backing.

irrelevancy aside, we are past rvs so this is an unimportant path to go down. I'm policy copping lld over you if I'm a cop, no offense. you've given very little in your posts. start with what your take is on me v lld v math?

radio update: you've now made 17 posts and produced next to no actual alignment indicative content, on or about anyone.

pedit: 18, you spent the 18th saying almost nothing too in response to a prod for content. I also didn't tunnel you, that was cheet though id barely call that a tunnel, though I lit charas ass up when he called me scum and reversed that back to a tr. Also also, I've been pretty clear I think LLD is town, so it's not a 1v1, just a derptunnel thing that again isn't really even a tunnel from lld's end.

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radio update: you've now made 17 posts and produced next to no actual alignment indicative content, on or about anyone.

You can count alright, but you don't seem to be able to READ. *Shrug*

(use a spoiler)
quote me what ai stuff you've said in your iso in your opinion. cause to me, it's a lot of weird spec that has very little relevance.

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"As for Skirt, he called me town before I even started posting, and then preceded to buddy up to me in subsequent posts. LLD has already pointed out how his entrance sounds fake, and Math has picked up on the discrepancy as well. He's tryharding, but in all the worst ways."

Where did i call you town? Where did i buddy up to you? On what planet am I tryharding?

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...but what scumhunting have you done in this game? your vote is rvs and you haven't given a single read or prong.

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...but what scumhunting have you done in this game? your vote is rvs and you haven't given a single read or prong.

I'm not going to use the "I've got both brothers and their families over" as an excuse, but I certainly have done the most I could have done given the content of the posts so far. Yes, we have over 7 pages of posts, but what's the ratio of "true game-based content" to "irrelevant, void, spam and what not"?

I mean, I can call dunker obv town as fuck, lld misguided town, math probably town, Elena probably town, cdb scum lean from my partner, keychain town from my partner, bulbazak scum lean because burden of being good is you don't get away with stupid ass pushes like that, you get to be null because I do believe this is a playstyle thing however I do also think you're a good wagon rn and being utterly useless, and those reads are not based on picking role pms spec. I used roll pm spec to generate content and get out of rvs, it worked, sue me. There is plenty of content to get reads from.

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I adamantly believe Keychain and Dunker are town off of this game

Dunker hadn't yet posted by the time that you made this post. Why did you already believe that he is town?

I would be surprised if CDB comes back and goes scum after however many years (or has he been playing recently?).

Forgive me if I've forgotten, but have we played together before?

pre game role pm bullshit, though now I do actually hard town read dunker off of play and my teammates who have lots of keychain experience towned her too

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I still don't find maria scummy

VOTE: bulbazak

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in reply to your post asking about vulva reads, I was going to say if you voted him I would too. I have him as scum on the last page. my vote wasn't anywhere important, and generating wagons is pro town.

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also, I disagree that almost is a better check than lld, also also, do you townread a50 now or?

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Actually, a reads list like that would be nice. Its lighthearted, but still relevant. Honestly, I'm bored with this game so I've been reading through the others and compiling reads lists for them.

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i for one do not want a reads list like that because it does literally nothing to help sort A50 xD

but yo do what you want dude

A50 is a smart player and I would argue one of the better people itg. It helps me sort him a little bit, but more other people comparing consistencies with my thoughts. I value others' reads a lot more than most do, and I use them to weight my reads in a way I'm not going to pretend is logical. I would be happy with just one post summarizing stances on everyone who's posted with a vote placed somewhere better (and to everyone not voting, start, voting is pro-town). But, if that is what's being offered, I'll take it.

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I spoke to my team about whos read this game just for you baby

transcend called dino town, giga eyerolled at lld's scumread of me and called them gut town

This seems very shallow.

And yet this more meaningfully so.

hm?

Hi all. Won’t have a chance to get really stuck in until this evening (GMT) but the Goo is confident that a

Vote: LLD

is the best place to start. She went out of her way to draw scum in the last Team Mafia and wouldn’t let a little thing like having her preference being public knowledge stop her from taking a scum PM again if possible.

When you get a chance can you read Skirt's opening interaction with MathDino and reply with thoughts specifically wrt my posting and Math's posting on the past 2 pages.

Thanks.

I reread everything a few times to see if I could see it the exact same way that you did, and while I agree that there is a difference in levels of conviction between Skirt and Dino (and that that is one of the main things that I look for when scumhunting), I am readier to accept that as a product of the lack of private-topic discussion that Skirt has proclaimed*. What I find more concerning specifically is the predicting that he'd get dinged for agreeing too much and playing it off in a 'please be more interesting' way. Self-consciousness happens to both town and scum, but the forced way he plays it cool there feels like it is more likely to fall on the scummy side of that. Still working out what I make of his playstyle in general, though.

*That said, Skirt, you're a sweet summer child if you think I'll actually be reading anyone's past games for this.

Don't worry, I won't be reading your past games either, haha. I like to do Ellibereth's Personality Analyses (tm) which is close to but not really meta.

Have you played with Transcend before? Do you know why he'd think 119 was a scum claim from you?

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I am never lynching Radja or Dunker. I will do a full reads list when my team's read the game, and hopefully t dog and airplane have posted by then.

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I am never lynching Radja or Dunker. I will do a full reads list when my team's read the game, and hopefully t dog and airplane have posted by then.

why can we not hear what you think individually?

I've said what I think individually, many times; read my posts.

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And yet this more meaningfully so.

hm?

Given that there was discussion about how much attention your teammates had already been paying to this game, I wasn't surprised that you'd pass on something in the way and tone that you did, and while it

was

shallow, that wasn't the point of the post, and making a post purely to say 'well this is shallow' as if to cast aspersions on you feels exceedingly easy, the kind of low-effort scumread I'd jump on as scum.

Have you played with Transcend before? Do you know why he'd think 119 was a scum claim from you?

I at least recognise Transcend's username, which is more than I can say for many people in this competition, but if we ever played together then I'm afraid that I don't remember it at all.

The words you paraphrased in 135 don't seem to actually involve calling my vote a scumclaim, only that Transcend "didn't like it", but if that was actually the strength of his conviction then that'd be ridiculous. I can imagine someone not liking the vote, though I'd be close to calling them factually wrong for it, but being factually wrong about that kind of thing doesn't mean much.

His words used are scum claim. Transcend throws that around a lot though, it just basically means he's fosing you for it. He hasn't been online in discord to answer if he has any meta with you because to me that's nothing to warrant a scumread.

I agree with your FoS on Key btw, but transcend and giga have a lot of meta with them as opposed to my almost none and they both go town. I trust them there.

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skirt skirt - He said he would take the scum PM, he said Transcend would take the scum PM, he said they didn't get a scum PM. Skrew pointed this out as weird right when it happened.

I would take scum if we rolled scum (lol we all rolled town I stg not that you know that) if we valued winning over everything because I have a significantly better scum wr than my team afaik, but I wouldn't if we were playing more socially and for fun.

I can tell you straight up if we had rolled a scum pm I would have not wanted to take it. We didn't regardless which is good because none of us wanted it. Probably would've given it to Transcend tbh

???
???
?????

The posts are consistent - if Skirt is in this game for fun as his top priority over victory.

this,

why am i getting scumread so easily
like, i appreciate it but now im wary of being pocketed

you're town because your thoughts make sense to me. same with radja. it feels organic. boon told me that your reads are usually pretty damn good as town, and i agreed with that analysis. conviction and being lynchbaity is your problem. when you were scum in ita, you were just pushing dumb shit and none of it felt real.

this is opposed to UCV, i have no clue how to read him because i've actively avoided playing with him.

and, in reply to locktowning you in game start, i decided i agree it was dumb. boon absolutely loves coaching, and theres no reason he wouldnt want to help you or chilly out improving your scum games. my read off you is based entirely in this game.

A50, join the cool kids wagon, you are more often killed N1 for correctly sheeping me

Tbh, my concern is YOU atm. You've given me too much mixed vibes. I could call you Town for one thing yet I could call you Scum for another,

I actually empathize with this a ton. I still have math as town and won't vote them today probably, but they're making me doubt it a lot more than I did earlier. You're still not on the town side though.

[skirt skirt]

See, Skirt, and here I was just coming in to point out that this post...

I know exactly what you mean. I don't think team mafia is the place for my shitposting style. Nor my spam or rxn test styles. I'm trying to make sure this doesn't devolve into one of the games I get into a massive 1v1 and create a toxic gamestate, you've been in 1 or 2 games with me where that's happened recently I think. If you'll notice, I'm also trying to compile posts instead of multiposting.

...seems less consistent with that mindset.

Ruining the game by reducing it to a toxic wasteland is not the same as tryharding my balls off.
viewtopic.php?f=56&t=73578
viewtopic.php?f=53&t=73313
viewtopic.php?f=53&t=72708

it has happened in a fair amount of games recently, and I don't want it to happen here because this isn't some random mini normal I experiment or purely play to fuck around.

[skirt skirt]

screen sring me doesnt surprise me, boon will probably flip that read around 4 more times. tbone can be scum.

[skirt skirt]

garbage players garbage teammate has a garbage read, shocker.

[skirt skirt]

(I'm not allowed to talk about why mulch said that for what should be obvious reasons but he doesn't actually believe it he's just being a prick)

[skirt skirt]

skirt wonders why tbone is voting him, skirt is also going to drive over to a friend's eat a cookie and k so skirt is done for the night

[skirt skirt]

do you feel I'm spamposting? because I adamantly disagree

[skirt skirt]

mulch is 100% sure skirt skirt is scum. like. he is screaming at me

VOTE: skirt

ok the rest of my team also thinks he i scum for the most part.
like

mulch 100%
creature 99%
sheep 80%
me and quick dont know

quick and creature should have me as town. tell creature to think it over more, he often scumreads me right away but correctly flips it soon after. mulch is spitereading me, please don't lie about that.

[skirt skirt]

"As for Skirt, he called me town before I even started posting, and then preceded to buddy up to me in subsequent posts. LLD has already pointed out how his entrance sounds fake, and Math has picked up on the discrepancy as well. He's tryharding, but in all the worst ways."

Where did i call you town? Where did i buddy up to you? On what planet am I tryharding?

Spoiler: This is buddying

Bulbazak, From Queue Agents - good.php

I hadn't posted as of this point in the game, and I don't have any recollection of ever having played with you. This felt like you trying to preemptively get on my good side. Looking back on it, probably not a townread per se, but I don't think it was meant to come across as a scum read.

I would take scum if we rolled scum (lol we all rolled town I stg not that you know that) if we valued winning over everything because I have a significantly better scum wr than my team afaik, but I wouldn't if we were playing more socially and for fun.

I adamantly believe Keychain and Dunker are town off of this game, Radja I guess I agree. Bins from what I remember hates scum so yea that's fine too. Don't know CDB or T-Bone play-wise at all so no comment.

UCV... I guess.

No clue for bulba

. LLD, A50, Smoke, definitely realistic for scum. I haven't actually seen A50s scum game I don't think, but iirc Chara said A50 is their scummer?

Math pushes you on the last post and says that I'm good as scum. There is a slight backpedal here, I think, but you definitely didn't want to let go of that potential townread and buddying opportunity on my slot.

Caught up, and Keychain is still kinda nebulous. I'm going to keep an eye there, but not interested in pushing that yet. I thought Elena might be panicking scum trying to squash Math's team analysis (which is actually relevant to Team Mafia). That seems like something I feel scum would do if events were turning against them. But then she did that reversal on LLD after much discussion, and I really can't see Elena-scum doing that, especially when keeping a vote on LLD would be so easy to do at this point in the game, and I really don't think LLD could apply enough pressure to turn the tides on Elena. At best, she'd get a LLD lynch, and at worse, she'd just look like hard headed town. There's really nothing to lose, so her changing her read is a town sign.

As for Skirt, he called me town before I even started posting, and then preceded to buddy up to me in subsequent posts. LLD has already pointed out how his entrance sounds fake, and Math has picked up on the discrepancy as well. He's tryharding, but in all the worst ways.

Vote Skirt skirt

bit of a reach

How so? If it's about Skirt, I'm a little sensitive to buddying, as I've had scum pocket me too many times by playing up to me. So when Skirt, someone that I don't think I've ever played with, enters into the game and immediately begins kissing up to me before I even show up, my scumdar goes off like crazy.

bulbazak scum lean because burden of being good is you don't get away with stupid ass pushes like that

And this is essentially what Skirt did when LLD started pushing him. He attacked her immediately as scum, and when she kept up the push and others were coming around, he changed his tune. I almost wonder if the same thing is going to happen to me, or whether he'll feel the need this time to put all his eggs in this one lynch, especially since Math is backing his play this time.

Bulbazak's entrance is completely and 100% NAI, which is fairly concerning.

How so? Were you expecting more from a post that was essentially "I'm here and caught up! Oh, and here's a little of where I'm at."?

I adamantly believe Keychain and Dunker are town off of this game

Dunker hadn't yet posted by the time that you made this post. Why did you already believe that he is town?

This is the same issue I'm having with his position on me early game, and I don't buy Skirt's reasoning for that statement a la Dunker.

That logicky post is pinging me in all sortso f ways. Feels like an overexplanation of an analysis on not all that much source material in the first place. Makes him look active/helpful without really advancing the game (because fundamentally, it's just saying why he's hopping on a wagon).

I admit the post was probably janky. I was trying to both get into the game and give some of my thoughts at the same time after having read 10 pages. I mean, I could have just given reads without explanation, but after Surreptitious, I'm trying to explain my thought process a bit more, because apparently, what I think is really obvious ends up being not so for most people. So if I have some reasoning for a read, I'm going to at least try saying a bit of how I came to that conclusion. If it's all still a bit vague in my head still, or if I'm wanting to withhold the reasoning for the moment, I'll just give a quick read and leave it at that.

Did you have issues with my reads in general? I wanted to give an idea where I was with 2 of the reads I had given in the previous post, and I had just gotten a strong townread on Elena for none gut reasons. Unless you somehow thought I was going to give general reads on every player in the game, I think what I gave was pretty on par with how I normally enter, even if I explained more of my reads than I normally did.

skirt is honestly still probably scum

I actually have a problem with this if you are saying that you somehow are scumreading

both

of us.

@Bulbazak:

Up to what point in the thread had mastina read and offered opinions?

I glanced over what Mastina said, and I don't really think she's said much about this game so far. She's mostly focusing on a couple of the other games, as well as hers. I'm sure we'll talk later, but given our conversations in the spoiled PT of the Mod is Mafia, she just may let me do my own thing unless I ask a question of the team or she sees something she thinks is important.

I need to go to bed soon, but there were a few questions I forgot to ask this afternoon. So I'm going to look back over everything real quick and make sure I post them before I leave for the night.

if you're town, mastina should sort me for you. I called you a good player because you are, that's not a townread in any sense of the word. that's not buddying.

that said, this post locks in my scumread of you. it's pretty awful. mote when I'm not baked.

[skirt skirt]

btw I'm reading (middle finger emoji bulbazak) I'll answer outstanding stuff etc later or tomorrow busy af today

[skirt skirt]

I've read up tot his point, I just got off work and about to go get baked so depending on how the night goes I plan on doing a big catchup post involving telling certain players to fuck off about me being bad, reads, responses, etc. I'll either do it tomorrow or in a few hours. If There's anything urgent you want from me, lmk, I'll still probably keep up with the thread.

[skirt skirt]

I didn't agree id take any scum pms btw. pre sure you said that a couple times, but it's not true.

[skirt skirt]

UNVOTE:

[skirt skirt]

Spoiler: i'm going to start off by personally addressing everyone who's voting me, which is another scum tell :thinking:

UCV: Tell creature to reread. He has had me as scum in our last 3 games together at least I think? And quickly flipped me to town in all of them (correctly). Referring to Beneath the Mask, the large I subbed into, and that mini idr if was recent or not. But, I'm more concerned with Mulch. You go first because I have the most important thing to say: Mulch, fuck you. You know EXACTLY what I think you're scumreading me for, and while I don't know for sure if its true you have no history reading me correctly whatsoever. If it is true, I never want to play with you again. If it isn't, please vocalize your issues with me even though I know I don't reciprocate that.
Bulbazak: If you're town, /please/ have Mastina and Thor give their updated thoughts on me before you lynch me. I will legitimately be in awe if both of them are able to incorrectly scumread me, they have both seen firsthand examples of me combined with toxicity, should understand why I've played like this, and Thor especially I trust to not misread me here. That isn't based on "meta" btw meta-haters: its based on me having confidence in Thor's analytical skills and seeing why this whole push on me is garbage. Bulba, I know you aren't bad, despite how insulting I may end up getting later on. You really need to get your head out of your ass and reevaluate though. Transcend townreads you, so I'll sheep it for now and unvoted above. I am sorry, guess I'm pocketing you and thor... lol. Apparently that's the level of play you think I'm at - blindly complimenting to pocket. Maybe if I say it here its not pocketing anymore? Or maybe its even scummier o.o
LLD: Actually, nothing to call you out on. I have confidence you personally will unvote me at some point soon.
T-Bone: The biggest issue here. I really, really take issue with your iso. You haven't "called me shit" as you said but you've all but said that. The thing is, you're the only of these 4 myself and my only teammates who read the thread collectively scumread. You ahven't done anything but be a prick. 469 is gross, not in a scummy way but in an as a person way. Again, I'll end up insulting you at some point, you strike me as the kind of person to not be easily offended so I won't coddle you. I want you to know I'm legitimately angry at your play. Thank you. I am not going to tell you to ask your teammates to analyze me, nor ask you to reevaluate, because I think we collectively just think you're a scum at best or a person I'm never going to get along with or enjoy playing with at worst. And hey, like bulba, nothing against your mafia skills, I've heard you're a decent player. I just think you're geriatric and aren't giving a genuine effort into this game. Your iso barely addresses most of it. This isn't gonna turn into a T-Bone case, you haven't posted denough nor are we far enough in the game to warrant that.

Caught up, and Keychain is still kinda nebulous. I'm going to keep an eye there, but not interested in pushing that yet. I thought Elena might be panicking scum trying to squash Math's team analysis (which is actually relevant to Team Mafia). That seems like something I feel scum would do if events were turning against them. But then she did that reversal on LLD after much discussion, and I really can't see Elena-scum doing that, especially when keeping a vote on LLD would be so easy to do at this point in the game, and I really don't think LLD could apply enough pressure to turn the tides on Elena. At best, she'd get a LLD lynch, and at worse, she'd just look like hard headed town. There's really nothing to lose, so her changing her read is a town sign.

As for Skirt, he called me town before I even started posting, and then preceded to buddy up to me in subsequent posts. LLD has already pointed out how his entrance sounds fake, and Math has picked up on the discrepancy as well. He's tryharding, but in all the worst ways.

Vote Skirt skirt

I literally never said that. Calling you a good player implies you're more likely to take scum if anything though even that's a stretch. in fact, a page 1 quote from me;

UCV... I guess.

No clue for bulba.

LLD, A50, Smoke, definitely realistic for scum. I haven't actually seen A50s scum game I don't think, but iirc Chara said A50 is their scummer?

Did not happen. Did also not buddy up to you in subsequent posts or whatever bullshit you're on.

I hadn't posted as of this point in the game, and I don't have any recollection of ever having played with you. This felt like you trying to preemptively get on my good side. Looking back on it, probably not a townread per se, but I don't think it was meant to come across as a scum read.

I didn't disagree with Math saying you were inclined to pick scum, just said I didn't know, because we haven't played.... This isn't that big of a community and I spectate a lot of games I don't play at least loosely to practice reads, sorry for recognizing your name?

Math pushes you on the last post and says that I'm good as scum. There is a slight backpedal here, I think, but you definitely didn't want to let go of that potential townread and buddying opportunity on my slot.

Or. And I know this may be hard to believe. I have no clue on bulba because

I don't have any recollection of ever having played with you

Fucking moron. I apologize complimenting you, will not happen again wouldn't want to keep buddying and outing how obvscum I am.

And this is essentially what Skirt did when LLD started pushing him. He attacked her immediately as scum, and when she kept up the push and others were coming around, he changed his tune. I almost wonder if the same thing is going to happen to me, or whether he'll feel the need this time to put all his eggs in this one lynch, especially since Math is backing his play this time.

I "changed my tune", in like, 2 posts. You are reaching hard as fuck. Or sure, maybe I was intimidated by the onslaught of others... what others again? Oh yea... literally

ZERO players aside LLD and Mathdino posted between me voting LLD and me declaring them town

.

I actually have a problem with this if you are saying that you somehow are scumreading both of us.

BTW, scumreading two people that are somewhat unlikely to be partners is not an issue d1, rofl. You are not new, c'mon.

Is there a reason KMD thinks LLD would be intimidated by Skirt? I could see you, but Skirt suggests a level of town play I'm just not seeing.

If you aren't going to read my other games that's fine, don't insult me peasant. Your level of town play exclusively from this game would suggest you belong in the newbie queue.

Generally, your opinion of the players has a lot to do with how you prioritize them as scum. For instance, if I was scum, I couldn't care less about Skirt in that situation, given that I have zero experience with him and don't have a high regard of his play just given what I've seen. So the accusation of "He was trying to drive a wedge between these 2 pro-town forces." would be wildly inaccurate given my evaluation of Skirt as a player. Now, take that example and put LLD in the same place. If she doesn't hold Skirt in any sort of regard, why would she even care about putting a wedge between you two?

But onto the more relevant stuff, you don't need to hold me in a regard to want to drive a wedge into something. I don't believe that was remotely what LLD was doing, but this is a stupid as fuck train of thought regardless because recognizing A) that math is a player to hold in a high regard and b) skirt is an unknown but likely at least not completely new due to it being team mafia, you don't need to hold me in a high regard to do that wifom nonexistent bullshit you're harping about anyways.

Can anyone spot the mindset problem?

i'm sorry, i thought i was a spamposter? now its a mindset problem to want to reserve posting until i actually had something to say at once rather than creature style? make up your minds when you're using retarded reasons to scumread me.

I'm trying to understand what you're saying but I'm seriously not getting it, so I'll just tell you what I've been thinking and you explain in full instead of leading me.

The amount of convergence that skirt and I are having is unreal, and the fact that he locked an immediate townread on me for doing Mathdino-y things was highly concerning.

Then the fact that he sheeps me and is generally super friendly with me and my logic to the point of my pointing out one detail influencing his opinion?

I think skirt skirt is scum. Wasn't gonna say anything yet. I like my vote where it is given that I have more confidence in my ability to read A50 than skirt skirt.

If you think I left something out, lemme know, but otherwise it's your turn.

Edit: GOTTEMMMMMMMM

I don't think the convergence that you and Skirt ended up with is that uncommon because of team group think. There are players in this game who are far higher probability to choose scum than others. (fuck, more meta bullshit talk).

No, my problem with skirt's post is tone. When you post your list, you're speaking in what feels like an affirmative tone. These percentages don't guarantee anyting, and yet you speak with authority and

CONVICTION

behind your statements.

Skirt mimics your answers, sure, and that's not nearly as big of an issue as his lack of CONVICTION in doing so. I would expect a town player to either hard agree or hard disagree when you take a stance like you did, but he kind of.... sat the fence, tonally and content wise.

Does that make sense?

you haven't posted much, but I address you in the next spoiler I think.

mulch is 100% sure skirt skirt is scum. like. he is screaming at me

VOTE: skirt

ok the rest of my team also thinks he i scum for the most part.
like

mulch 100%
creature 99%
sheep 80%
me and quick dont know

Nothing to say to you except what I've said to Mulch below. You aren't voting me, Mulch is and it isn't because I'm "scummy".

Vote: Shirt Skirt

Let's just get that out of the way.

Great start.

b. You want to see things from my perspective. Here is my perspective. When I took a look at the game for the first time, I groaned that we had made it to 10 pages. The first thing I did was check the activity, to see why we've gotten to that point. Maybe one player posted 100 times. You and Skirt each had 47 posts. Why did I do this? Because I know this format, Team Mafia, is especially ripe for spamposter type scum players. It is part of the reason (part, not entire, see LLD for a good estimate of what Skirt is) I put my vote there.

As either alignment, I'm at the top nearly always. The exception is when I'm nightkilled early, Mulch/Mathblade/Transcend have sometimes outposted me, and... that's about it. You said yourself I'm not posting over the top, so...

Basically, what you're doing (and what Skirt is doing on a 10x worse level) is creating interactions that are easily faked. I understand why you might do these as town, as you might legitimately grasp for these things...but...knowing this, you can easily fake this as scum. And I know meta-players like to use the 'but I wouldn't do this as scum defense'...and I'm not interested in would/wouldn't of someone's playstyle. You did initially sort me because I would probably take a town role, for example.

This is a whole lotta crap. When did I ever say "I wouldn't do this as scum"? Or you aren't referring to me, so what am I doing on a 10x worse level? What exactly is "easily faked" vs not so? That's rhetorical, because its buzzwording bullshit.

I haven't decided yet whether I feel his tone is hollow or not. I'm leaning towards genuine, because Skirt is trying to do a lot of the same things, and he is way more hollow in his convictions. So, I don't know if that is comparison bias or what.

But like, you're feeling off about Dino. Does it bother you that Skirt is mimicking his approach in a lot of ways? Let's back up...do you see that at all?

Giga pointed this out, and I'll get to that later but I agree, that you are talking about me, talking to math, and that's your iso. More hollow and conviction talk, I address that later.

This makes no sense. Full stop. Skirt, I don't mean to offend....but who sits up at night worried about Skirt? He doesn't have a reputation for being a quality player, and his playstyle is going to make people not want to listen to him initially. Of all the strong personalities in this game...

Of course you mean to offend, that's you being an asshat. I don't have a reputation for being a quality player... is that from a mod perspective or a player one? You should know what I'm getting at. I also adamantly disagree with my playstyle making people not want to listen to me, my lynch is chosen a lotttt more than random would suggest, and I'm generally good at shoving them through. And as I said to bulba, this doesn't even matter. It is irrelevant to the initial awful point about LLD driving a wedge etc.

I can't describe what I want to say at the moment, other than not good things. KMD's thoughts tank your slots' credibility...because A) this is a lazy read through by him or B) a lazy readthrough by him to try and give the appearance you and your team are scumhunting in earnest.

Listening to your teammates when they have experience with a player tanks their credibility? Stfu. Or, reply that I'm pocketing KMD now. Your choice.

The problem with what KMD posted is that is contrary to what he should know as a player. I can't imagine people having an impression of Skirt being a strong player, and having the impression that LLD would regard Skirt as a strong player. Like, your contributions I haven't questioned in terms of content (just in tone). But, it is like KMD thoughts are MadLibs. Like, those thoughts came preloaded without regards as to the characters who would later occupy those thoughts.

lol%%

If he does think highly of skirt, okay, no big deal. Like, I'm not here to fight you. If you're town I genuinely want you to play your best. It's just if you're scum, then I want you to get dead.

I'm not sure you can read Skirt in this game and have the impression that he is a reputable player. I'm not saying this to slight him or put him down. I always assume everyone is playing to the best of their abilities. But, he posts like that category of player who doesn't have much an ability to influence a game with his force of will, and thus, would not be treated as such by another player.

You really haven't ever read any of my games have you? Fine, as I've said, whatever. But why in the fuck do you imply you've heard I'm a subpar player, or even that I'm not. You're using words like you're not trying to offend, then you continue to be a cock. I'm sorry I beat you up for your lunch money timmy, and I'm sorry I did it yesterday, and I'm sorry I'll do it tomorrow.

I'm making an assumption about his playstyle, and his ability to influence the game. He entered the game and established himself to be a spam poster. Low content, high volume poster...the type of poster people don't really follow, because spamposters are usually not charismatic enough to lead a town in the early stages of a game, and that's how I felt he was in this game. I then assumed, that's how he is every game. At the very least that's how he was in this game.

lol

And I find it odd, because at that point in the game YOU were the charismatic leader Math. Now, you may or may not feel this way, but in the gamestate we are talking about (like the first 12 hours), you were the charismatic leader and Skirt was the lynchbait. His entrance was not strong, he was spam-posty, and then he mimicked you in some ways. If anything, wouldn't you be the more logical pocket for a scumplay in that situation?

Lynchbait? Math was the charismatic leader? Wanna talk about buddying... I was spam-posty? My entrance wasn't strong? I was triyng to do something rather than place an empty RVS vote and actually progress the game, excuse me. Maybe you're the problem if this is the second slowest game (was slowest at the time iirc) and you are having issues with the activity.

As thrilling as that post might be. Let me save everyone the trouble.

Skirt: boohoo T-Bone calling me a shit player, you're the shit player

T-Bone: Wow, at no point did I call you a shit player, but thanks for playing. Called you a spamposter, and that was my only commentary on you as a player.

I'm not interested in this conversation otherwise.

A) That wasn't your only commentary on me as a player
B) You said "No, I am very pleased with both of your posting levels since I have entered the game." I'm a spamposter? What of my posts are useless? Theres's a couple... as with any player, including you.
C) This is you trying to be a prick, trying to pseudovictimize me with boohoo and staging an argument to act smart. I never called you a shit player, I'm pretty sure I've never said anything negative about your skill as a player. I'll insult your mindset for days, cause it goes beyond you prossibly being scum.

Spoiler: more venting than relevant, read it if you want. It is at least a bit relevant. There was some more stuff I was going to respond to, but I honestly don't remember, so let's go on to reads.

you missed me you cunt

(ill help you out: i prefer playing town but my scum win rate is much higher)[/quote]
When the mod told me off for using cunt here, I got very annoyed and lost a lot of interest in this game right off the bat. That's all I have to say on the matter, I realized I could post this without braking rules because I'm paraphrasing.

It seems LLD already got to this, but still:

- He thinks LLD's scumstrat would be to drive a wedge between me and skirt by pocketing me and tunneling him due to intimidation of a possible townbloc.

Is there a reason KMD thinks LLD would be intimidated by Skirt? I could see you, but Skirt suggests a level of town play I'm just not seeing.

You're missing what I want to get at. I'll break it down in short.

a. I don't have a specific instance in mind other than my own. I'm playing the odds that if you've done it once, with the very first question you asked in the game, after doing some research to inform the question, you've done it with other players. And, for me personally, I don't care what conversations you do or don't pick up (outside of ones with me)
b. You want to see things from my perspective. Here is my perspective. When I took a look at the game for the first time, I groaned that we had made it to 10 pages. The first thing I did was check the activity, to see why we've gotten to that point. Maybe one player posted 100 times. You and Skirt each had 47 posts. Why did I do this? Because I know this format, Team Mafia, is especially ripe for spamposter type scum players. It is part of the reason (part, not entire, see LLD for a good estimate of what Skirt is) I put my vote there.
c. I'm not asking you to have a read on me, nor do I care what that read is. I care about processes though...and even though I do dismiss meta, I don't dismiss players who believe in it. And for me, it looked like you (sort of) went through the trouble of finding my tendencies in Team Mafia. Which tells me, this is important to you (if you're town). Thus, I expect these things to continue to be important to you, even if you encounter players going 'meta is trash' along the way. From my perspective, and from my brief interaction, that is all lacking. No, I don't expect some declaration of my alignment based off of one question and answer exchange. But, when you seem to put something behind it, I expect it to have a little more importance than 'lol T-Bone can be in the PoE pile'.
d. This is Team Mafia. We all have teams we go back to in some capacity. We are all following 5 games in some capacity. Some players are doing more than others. Still, it's not an excuse. I'll only buy it for so long before I start to wonder if it is just a front because that player is actually scum.

SNIP

KMD thinks that:
- He thinks LLD's scumstrat would be to drive a wedge between me and skirt by pocketing me and tunneling him due to intimidation of a possible townbloc.
- He thinks there's one scum in {skirt, LLD}. He had an issue with how both of them so strongly locktowned me and then started getting in tons of 1 on 1 conversations with me (basically trying to pocket me). He doesn't however think LLD would ever open like that against a scumbuddy skirt.

I'm actually inclined to agree with one scum in skirt/LLD.

SNIP

This makes no sense. Full stop. Skirt, I don't mean to offend....but who sits up at night worried about Skirt? He doesn't have a reputation for being a quality player, and his playstyle is going to make people not want to listen to him initially. Of all the strong personalities in this game...

I can't describe what I want to say at the moment, other than not good things. KMD's thoughts tank your slots' credibility...because A) this is a lazy read through by him or B) a lazy readthrough by him to try and give the appearance you and your team are scumhunting in earnest.

In fact, this being an event that most players will follow I would love to set an example for all how NOT to play around me.

UNVOTE:

I will wait until I'm put to L-1. point out where I crumbed and instantly hammer myself. It should serve to teach many of you how A50 plays his game (and yet I WILL change my playstyle, so it will only be an end of an era).

WEAKSAUCE

I was with you until right here. You haven't done anything this game, this game hasn't been going on that long for you to even do something and get ignored... don't insult us by pulling this bullshit card.

EDIT: I can, but as I demonstrated in this post, KMD's "thoughts" wrecked a lot of my trust in your slot.

First of all, you two can go fuck yourselves. I know Bulba is a good player and T-Bone probably is too as a mod but you are also cocky, aged, overconfident, arrogant assfucks. Literally, to the point you find it hard to believe somebody would ever possibly find me competent. You have no idea how much disdain I have for players like you, despite you being relatively competent players. The following is directed at LLD too: I'm "hollow" and "lack conviction"? Am I hollow or lacking conviction in viewtopic.php?f=84&t=73125 when I literally solo the game because my partner fucking dips early d1? In viewtopic.php?f=53&t=72998 I'm sure RC will argue all day long that he "caught" me because I had an emergency IRL, yet do you want to argue that I lacked conviction or was hollow as I along with a bit of boon early and late controlled the entire game? Those are not cherrypicked games, those are the only two scum games I have completed since returning. I have something like an 85% winrate on this site as scum last time I checked not including hydras, and something like a 60-65% townrate depending if you count an sk win as a loss (lol). I don't consider myself some god of mafia, there's plenty of people better than me including in this game, but I get annoyed when you old ass motherfuckers insult me, and I include LLD's reasons for scumreading me as insults to my skill. I don't want you to townread me because I show conviction as scum, I do as town too sometimes. I was trying to be nice this game explicitly and not ruin the gamestate, something I've never done before, apparently it isn't working? So fine, no more mr. nice eddie, I apologize if it does end up toxic in advance. Scumreading me for the reasons you've scumread me is almost as insulting as why mulch is feigning a scumread on me.

The above paragraph was AtE mostly. Fine. Frankly, I've got nothing against T-Bone or Bulba, that's my persona talking. Let's backtrack a bit.

VOTE: lld

I was thinking at the time that if LLD entered the thread voting me they'd be scum. After they explained their scumread on me was due to a lack of conviction, I figured she thought I was some dumbass 2017 dude who doesnt know how to put an avi and a retarded newbtell like that would work. It was justified, so my vote was no longer needed. Mathdino asked me to explain my LLD townread; her scumread on me made sense as was justifiable. I expect LLD to be one of the first people to unvote me, because despite tunnelling I have faith in their capabilities AND faith for them to not be a dick. I don't strongly townread LLD, she hasn't done enough to warrant anything. I can believe her push was genuine though, so she's in the soft town lean pile. The only one of my teammates who's read most of this game is Transcend who did not give a read on LLD; you'll see Transcend reads below.

I'm not trying to 1v1 LLD I just want her to quote the 2 posts in question between you and skirt and say why skirts is bad (or just quote the 2 posts and I'll go look at her reasons again) because I clearly thought it was the wrong post.
Also how dare you call me derptown I'm offended!

Misunderstanding my logic (or being opposed to probabilistic reasoning in general) often strikes me as a towntell. Scum are afraid to get in logical arguments with me that they could lose.

And I'm referring to the LLD vs skirt 1v1 moreso. I don't want that to take up the entire early game. Knowing LLD it has the potential to turn into some gladiator match. Tbh I was gonna purposefully stop posting for a bit so we could get others but I couldn't resist responding to shit

I'm well aware you aren't the only one to say this, just quoting here to say that anyone calling me and LLD a 1v1 needs to reevaluate what a "1v1" is. I fosd LLD for... what, a page? less than that? Oh, guess I'm hedgy and wishywashy, my bad. You're right, LLD can turn it into a gladiator match, so do I... if you go look at almost any of my recent town games you'll see I get into a toxic 1v1 at scum point. In my most recent it was Mathblade because Mastina told me they were 100% scum (I scumread them mildly) and Mathblade confirmed Mastina had successfully read them right something like 10 for 10... as Mastina's hydramate I had no choice. The game before that it was Gerry, again started by sheeping Mastina, though that time it was scum, and me also 1v1ing their scummate at the same time. The game before that, it was me in a toxic 1v1 this time TvT with Nero iirc. I won ish, Nero got lynched, town would've won except extremely lucky + decent enoughplay SK (Hi Maria!). Oh, and there was that large KMD is referring to where I subbed in because I was friends with the host and people itt requested me, the only person I misread really was ironically transcend. Once again, this is more self-meta bullshit I know the lord T-Bone and probably others will despise, but I have created toxic games as town a lot recently and I was trying really hard to improve on that. Apparently its not working. I promise, I'm done with the self meta that nobody cares about and is mostly irrelevant to the game now. Psychology is my major but I minor in English, I like writing lol.. after writing this I know its mostly irrelevant but I'm leaving it. Let's move on. Me and LLD is not a 1v1 and somebody needs to explain why it so obviously can't be TvT. Also, two games are already pretty disgusting in this team mafia round - shoutout Ether and Alisae. I don't want this to be a third. But, guess it might be because I need to be more aggressive apparently.

JJ and Giga haven't caught up at all yet, I think they're <7 pages in. Lycan has only read the first page but said he'll catch up tomorrow, so that's that. Transcend is the only one who's mostly caught up, and his reads are Dunker town, Key town (Elena vote good), CDB scum, Radja town, only confident scumread is cdb, leaning town on a50 but not confident, bulbashit (his words ) prob town, lean scum on tbone, cdb's posts are empty and lack conviction (LMAO), voyager probs town, one post from bins pinged but overall solid town bins, and said to be wary of bins because she's sneaky. doggo interject: bulbashit isnt a storng tr, just a lean, new update: bins scummish cause a50 exchng is flaily, the pingy post was aero lynch, when shes scum she doesnt like to get her hands dirty, elena/ tbone/channenl solid srs, a50 solidly town,

Edit: Giga reading now. I will hold off on posting this until they're done.
Giga thoughts: expects town LLD because her premise is dumb and godawful reads; 58 is a really bad vote; claire probtown; wait no nvm; math what the fuck some of us have lives, im a full time student etc etc that wasnt even 24 hours into the game; i dont like bins that much; instead of reading the game straight up im going to skip to the end; one of bins/claire is scum (me: why) its kind of gutty, the way claire defended me and scumread math felt unnatural, like she was anticipating me as a major wagon (me: wouldnt that make one of the people pushing me at least a partner) maybe, thats why i was isoing bulbs; bulbas read is so wildly different from reality, @dogglord why do you tr bulba; tbone is barely interacting with you, just talking to math mostly; no interest in sorting srs, just interacting with 1 tr basically; i think bulba genuinely misread what good.php meant and doubled down on it being buddying later even though thinking about what calling someone good implies explains half the "contradictions" he "found" in your thought process,

ask keech or raybells why bins is town

, tbone is legit really scummy, channel tonally scummy w bad votes, tbone worse than bulba, elena felt wk-y, a50 wrose than bins or tvt,
giga also gave a reads chart of ucv = keychain = dunker - Math >>> LLD = aero = bins = smocaine = radja = a50 >>> cdb >>> bulba = elena = tbone


Now, for my reads list because I'm someone who likes reads lists and you can deal with that. This factors in my teammates reads and I weight those vs my own.
{Dunker, Radja, Keychain} - My teammates with Keychain meta both agree they're solid town, I don't really have a read on them but I'll sheep my teammates. Yknow, the point of team mafia, cough cough Tbone. Radja and Dunker are obvtown as fuck off play. I would say Radja is the lowest in this tier by a tiny bit though.
{UCV, Mathdino} UCV actually does get some townpoints of Creature, #SheepingMathDino. No reason to scumread them though, and my teammates hard tr, so can be town either way. Mathdino... would be in the tier above. I townread them, my teammates do. I dunno, their posts ping me sometimes. This sounds bad, but they got a lot of cred for not just bandwagoning me and continually pushing for my lynch. Also, they are leading a lot of discussion, and not in an overly scummy way. I dunno, this could be my pocketed slot, but overall I do want to say they're town.
{A50} - ... Dunno. My team thinks town, particularly Transcend. I think that self voting manipulative AtE stuff is somewhat scummy, but eh. I actually had this slot as null or very slightly scum, but also approvedo fi ts wagon before. Can go here.
{Aero, LLD, Smocaine} - Closest to a null pile, Aero and LLD

very

slight TRs. I don't think any of you have posted enough for me to sort you.
{Bins} - I town lean your play. Transcend and Giga are conflicting and undecided, in the scum direction a bit. Not gonna lie, I'm gonna sort you and all but it probably won't be my read that affects how I see your slot. I'm going to let my team do it, particularly Lycan because he is confident he can do it well. Don't know what your experience wiht him is, he's been very busy and hasn't ansered.
{CDB, Maria, Bulba} - Two people I town lean that my teammates fos. Maria is a bit lower probably - I townlean her more than CDB, but my teammates scumread her signfiicantly more. Transcend did acknowledge that he always scumreads her though. Bulba, I think has pushed me for absolute garbage, Giga agrees, but the garbage isn't necessarily scummy garbage and Transcend TRs. Tbone is definitely worse in my mind, and even worserest overall.
{Tbone} - Only player we collectively scumread.


VOTE: T-Bone

[skirt skirt]

ask keech or raybells why bins is town,

if it wasn't clear, i bolded this because out of that paragraph it was something important that needs to be answered.

anyways, hey math. out of curiosity, what makes you go from me being scum -> sheeping me? Anything else to say in response to the first part of that post in particular? In particular particular, you asked my LLD, I answered. I have another 20 or 30 minutes before I sleep and I'll probably be quiet tomorrow.

[skirt skirt]

me and my team all tr both lld and skirt

but i think there is a scum in (math, skirt, lld, a50)

But all in all, this level of wtf-ness probably means Dunker is town.

Can anyone spot the mindset problem?

i'm sorry, i thought i was a spamposter? now its a mindset problem to want to reserve posting until i actually had something to say at once rather than creature style? make up your minds when you're using retarded reasons to scumread me.

No, the mindset problem is that from the get go you've shown more interest in attacking the players scumreading you in an ad hoc way rather than trying to figure out which of them are likely to be scum and approaching things from that mindset. The latter shows an interesting in scumhunting and sorting the game, while the former shows that you don't care about any of that and only care about protecting your own butt above all. In fact, the way you approached both that post and the one in which you respond to everyone shows a perspective that actually acknowledges all three of LLD, T-Bone, and myself as town, and you focus more on taking apart everything said against you bit by bit and arguing just to argue, which does nothing but add noise to the thread, confusing the issue and making you seem more town, all of which I'm familiar with, because it's a strategy I've employed as scum many times myself. Going through this response, there's nothing in there that actually furthers the game state or shows any evolution in reads, unless it's backing off of me (which I predicted, btw) or giving reads by proxy via team mates. At no point do I actually believe you are genuine in your conviction, other than you are genuinely angry or frustrated, which can come just as easily, if not more so, when scum.

That being said, I won't push a lynch on you through until Mastina checks in. I'm still waiting on her response for Math, at which point I imagine she'll have read through the entirety of this game and given a few thoughts/reads of her own. Thor is having trouble keeping up with his own game, so I don't imagine he'll read through this one. But if he does, and he tells me to get off you, then I'll listen. I just don't expect that to happen. I've already conceded that my original reason for scumreading you was likely bad, and that I'm just sensitive to potential buddying. But I still have a strong scumread on you, and there's nothing that I'm seeing that tells me that I'm wrong.

And on another note, apparently people just want me to go back to giving blind reads. :shrug:

if I'm just adding noise to the thread and those aren't the reasons you scumread me, why am I scum bulbs? like, make 1 concise post please so I can reply without being "ad hom"? ill ignore that you're trying to reduce my wall to just ad hom when it's oh so very clearly not, calling someone a fucking moron doesn't reduce the rest of the arguments.

[skirt skirt]

me and my team all tr both lld and skirt

but i think there is a scum in (math, skirt, lld, a50)

But all in all, this level of wtf-ness probably means Dunker is town.

Can anyone spot the mindset problem?

i'm sorry, i thought i was a spamposter? now its a mindset problem to want to reserve posting until i actually had something to say at once rather than creature style? make up your minds when you're using retarded reasons to scumread me.

No, the mindset problem is that from the get go you've shown more interest in attacking the players scumreading you in an ad hoc way rather than trying to figure out which of them are likely to be scum and approaching things from that mindset. The latter shows an interesting in scumhunting and sorting the game, while the former shows that you don't care about any of that and only care about protecting your own butt above all. In fact, the way you approached both that post and the one in which you respond to everyone shows a perspective that actually acknowledges all three of LLD, T-Bone, and myself as town, and you focus more on taking apart everything said against you bit by bit and arguing just to argue, which does nothing but add noise to the thread, confusing the issue and making you seem more town, all of which I'm familiar with, because it's a strategy I've employed as scum many times myself. Going through this response, there's nothing in there that actually furthers the game state or shows any evolution in reads, unless it's backing off of me (which I predicted, btw) or giving reads by proxy via team mates. At no point do I actually believe you are genuine in your conviction, other than you are genuinely angry or frustrated, which can come just as easily, if not more so, when scum.

That being said, I won't push a lynch on you through until Mastina checks in. I'm still waiting on her response for Math, at which point I imagine she'll have read through the entirety of this game and given a few thoughts/reads of her own. Thor is having trouble keeping up with his own game, so I don't imagine he'll read through this one. But if he does, and he tells me to get off you, then I'll listen. I just don't expect that to happen. I've already conceded that my original reason for scumreading you was likely bad, and that I'm just sensitive to potential buddying. But I still have a strong scumread on you, and there's nothing that I'm seeing that tells me that I'm wrong.

And on another note, apparently people just want me to go back to giving blind reads. :shrug:

No, the mindset problem is that from the get go you've shown more interest in attacking the players scumreading you in an ad hoc way rather than trying to figure out which of them are likely to be scum and approaching things from that mindset.

I, quite literally, went through my voters, explicitly said which I thought were scum, ctrl fd skirt in their isos and replied to everything, continued giving my thoughts sorting, and gave a reads list. It is so, so disingenous to say I am not trying to figure out which are scum. And, at that post, I hadn't even posted anything ad-hoc yet nor made my post at all, and you still called it a mindset problem. Forgone conclusion anyone?

The latter shows an interesting in scumhunting and sorting the game, while the former shows that you don't care about any of that and only care about protecting your own butt above all. In fact, the way you approached both that post and the one in which you respond to everyone shows a perspective that actually acknowledges all three of LLD, T-Bone, and myself as town, and you focus more on taking apart everything said against you bit by bit and arguing just to argue, which does nothing but add noise to the thread, confusing the issue and making you seem more town, all of which I'm familiar with, because it's a strategy I've employed as scum many times myself.

I think I was wrong calling you good at this juncture if I'm being honest, unless you flip red. You are using me "taking apart everything said against me bit by bit" as a scum tell? Are you fucking joking? I'm sorry, should I let your grade 9 level, geriatric, provably false scumreads on me just sit unresponded to? Where in the fuck am i 'arguing just to argue"? How "do nothing but add noise to the thread" when this was all 1 post,

and in spoiler tags

?

Going through this response, there's nothing in there that actually furthers the game state or shows any evolution in reads, unless it's backing off of me (which I predicted, btw) or giving reads by proxy via team mates. At no point do I actually believe you are genuine in your conviction, other than you are genuinely angry or frustrated, which can come just as easily, if not more so, when scum.

This solidifies my stance that I was wrong and you are a mediocre player. Thank you. (nothing there furthers the game state? I'm sorry you egotistical prick, what do you consider advancing the game state? even if you scumread it that's /still/ a massive leap). You didn't predict shit, you made a sarcastic comment about how I'll either keep pushing you or I'll back off. So basically, you predicted both possible outcomes and are now bragging about a 100% likelyhood of one of the two conclusions happening. Congragulations. I'll be sure to mail a cake. I'm not backing off you, Transcend thinks you're town whereas we collectively agree Tdog is scum,my, and Thor especially but also Mastina will likely sort me as town or at least tell you you're wrong. 3 collective scumreads vs 2 and a tr is not hard math, though I guess I'm doing nothing to further the game state.

So yes, please give me one post that summarizes why you scumread me. If I'm just making noise by quoting every mention of skirt in your iso in a spoiler and pointing out why they're all provably false, I'll just reply to your actual "case".

[skirt skirt]

@All: Does anyone have reads on Smocaine at this point? The fact that he doesn't know who I am despite being in an ongoing game with me is indication that he's not getting briefed by his teammates (Unless someone is like pro-scum telling him to townslip on purpose). Chances that he'd pick scum?

Do you know any of Smocaine's teammates somewhat well? If not, they probably wouldn't have briefed him on you specifically and maybe they aren't caught up. But no, there's no tangible read on Smocaine, we aren't lynching him d1 though (not that anyone suggested it).
#JustMakingNoise

[skirt skirt]

@Skirt: You feel less like you're trying to solve the game and more like you're just trying to position yourself to best suit an agenda. And no, your last post was pretty much all ad hoc, in that it was attacking everyone that even thought to scumread you, and it had nothing to do in further developing reads on those individuals. It was all about "How can I best defeat this person?" and not "Is this person coming from a town place or a scum place?"

No it wasn't, there was no ad hoc out of the spoilers, and yes, there was active sorting of people on my wagon. Everyone has an agenda, including if you're town. I pointed out with you specifically many complete inconsistencies and you haven't apologized or acknowledged that, you're just reducing it to ad hoc. I didn't attack LLD, or UCV for that matter - Mulch isn't an "attack", if you are following the games you should know whats up. Its just him being a shit. If you are seriously going to argue everything I said to you in the first spoiler is ad hom then I have no interest in you as a player because that's just not close to true. And, do not reference the second spoiler, I marked it as mostly irrelevant for a reason. Just venting. The second spoiler has a lot of ad hom, but that isn't the entire post, its tucked away. I was looking if each of the voters was coming at me from a town pov, did you even read any of my comments on LLD? I think I used the words town pov verbatim. I conclude you either have a severe playstyle problem with me (hence Thor and a bit Mastina reading - appreciate

[skirt skirt]

But you said my entire post was ad hom. Are you only referring to the spoiler I labeled as not overly game related? Or my entire post? Because if its only the spoiler, then you lied already. If its not, you're stupid already. Pick. Liar or Stupid.

[skirt skirt]

this discussion is stupid and is pretty useless to determining each other's alignments

neither of you are intentionally lying on this, get over it

But you said my entire post was ad hom. Are you only referring to the spoiler I labeled as not overly game related? Or my entire post? Because if its only the spoiler, then you lied already. If its not, you're stupid already. Pick. Liar or Stupid.

does lying mean one is scum? 100%

no to uc. to math, he may have his "new" reasons for scumreading me, but I want him to at least acknowledge that I responded not ad-hom to each of his arguments against me, and most of them are factually disproven and not just opinionated replies. adding swear words in does not immediately discount the post as a whole.

[skirt skirt]

[skirt skirt]

look dude, you are just ignoring me atp.

And don't try to move the goal posts. I point out that your post is essentially ad hom with no actual game progression, and you go "Well, the ad hom was in spoilers, so it doesn't count!". Then when I call bull crap on that, you say, "Well, it wasn't all ad hom. There was that bit at the bottom where I had my team mates speak for me and then did nothing with that so that I looked like I was doing something."

if I'm just adding noise to the thread and those aren't the reasons you scumread me, why am I scum bulbs? like, make 1 concise post please so I can reply without being "ad hom"? ill ignore that you're trying to reduce my wall to just ad hom when it's oh so very clearly not, calling someone a fucking moron doesn't reduce the rest of the arguments.

In my first phonepost reply to you I address the ad hom existing and not being the entire post.

I think I was wrong calling you good at this juncture if I'm being honest, unless you flip red. You are using me "taking apart everything said against me bit by bit" as a scum tell? Are you fucking joking? I'm sorry, should I let your grade 9 level, geriatric, provably false scumreads on me just sit unresponded to? Where in the fuck am i 'arguing just to argue"? How "do nothing but add noise to the thread" when this was all 1 post, and in spoiler tags?

Because, like I said, there is some ad hom. The second spoiler has a lot. It wasn't all ad hom, which is what you said it was, and you reduced the post to nothing but ad hom and "noise". That's straight up lying. My stances have evolved plenty, I'm sorry my reads are better than yours? That was just a bit? Because even just the reads list has more content on players than you've provided itg. And, for the last time,

I factually disproved half your arguments against me and responded to the rest. This is your last prod to address this in any way at all

. There is, again, way more game progression in that single post than you have this entire game.

[skirt skirt]

i'm done talking to bulba, this isn't going anywhere. praying its a town slot and mastina/thor will call bulba out for me. doubting it a lot now, but tbone is still worse.

[skirt skirt]

no screw that UCV, don't go down this road, you're not good at picking apart town lies from scum lies

give updated creature reads pls

this is manipulating

did anyone else read my posts? like do they make sense. cause everyone (except math ofc) kinda just ignored them so i need someone to tell me they're bad or im going to continue

yes, they were fine.

Going through this response, there's nothing in there that actually furthers the game state or shows any evolution in reads

The last time before that I posted relevant was #310, and #188 was the last time I gave reads I think - like not even halfway through to my wall. What do you mean no evolution in reads? Do you want me to magically have completely new reads? I articulated a full reads list for the first time, including explanations and not just naked reads.

giving reads by proxy via team mates.

Which was requested of me by Mathdino explicitly early itg but overall is just relevant? This isn't a solo game, I gave my own reads and analyzed theirs?

At no point do I actually believe you are genuine in your conviction, other than you are genuinely angry or frustrated, which can come just as easily, if not more so, when scum.

Ah boy, conviction. What am I not genuine with specifically? The fact I factually disproved your arguments against me? The fact you are a dumbass for calling the entire post ad hom? The fact you are doubling down on your retarded mindsets rather than being a decent person, acknowledging you were wrong, and moving on? #AdHom

You feel less like you're trying to solve the game and more like you're just trying to position yourself to best suit an agenda. And no, your last post was pretty much all ad hoc, in that it was attacking everyone that even thought to scumread you, and it had nothing to do in further developing reads on those individuals. It was all about "How can I best defeat this person?" and not "Is this person coming from a town place or a scum place?"

I didn't attack half the people who voted me, or ANY of the people who fosd me. It had to do with showing those individualds (you and tbone) that you are objective dumbasses wrt this topic. And, like I said, there's active sorting going on. You can disagree with it, but its there.

But hey, let's go further. The majority of that post was meant specifically to attack T-Bone, LLD, and myself as players, and it had nothing to do with actually figuring out our alignments. It was essentially you calling us garbage players for even deigning to scum read you. No actual read progression or thoughts towards alignment are given at this point. Then at the end, you do talk about alignment, but only through the guise of your team mates. They are the ones who give reads, and only then do you give a read list. There you disagree with your team enough, and publicly enough, to actually nullify anything they said, and therefore, your reads mostly remain static. Except for T-Bone. You go whole hog on the T-Bone suspicion, and I have to wonder if that would still be the case if there wasn't a game wide scumread of T-Bone developing at that same point in time.

I attacked T-Bone as a player. That's... it. While saying I don't think he's a bad player. I never attacked you, and LLD moreso. I never called a single one of you a garbage player (at the time of that post, I said I think you're mediocre after). Thoughts towards alignment are given in the very first part of the post, saying which of the votes on me I think are town, but sure, go with that. My reads can't possibly "remain static" when I hadn't given reads on half those people in the first place and the rest were 200 pages before. I didn't disagree with my team that much, are you joking? We are mostly in sync... o,,o

I've read up tot his point, I just got off work and about to go get baked so depending on how the night goes I plan on doing a big catchup post involving telling certain players to fuck off about me being bad, reads, responses, etc. I'll either do it tomorrow or in a few hours. If There's anything urgent you want from me, lmk, I'll still probably keep up with the thread.

And since people still can't see it, you can tell that Skirt's priority is in attacking those on his wagon. Not in getting reads on them. That's the mindset problem I was talking about. That's not how town approaches a wagon on them. They think "Okay, so who is likely scum attacking me?", not "Okay, how can I best dismantle the people on my wagon?".

MY priority has always been about getting reads. Tbone has done exactly what you're accusing me of, but significantly worse, in that he hasn't tried to interact me and talks about me while almost exclusively interacitng with Math. I have reads on yall, and I'm willing to discuss and change them. You say "Okay, so who is likely scum attacking me" when iirc I verbatim said "who on my wagon is likely scum" and my entire first spoiler was centric around the two I thought were scum (you and tbone).

i could see skirt being scum just based on post length

I've only ever wallposted like that as town actually, mainly because I used to exclusively phonepost, including 4 recent games: beneath the mask, alisae's micro, WR mafia, and Penguin's game. You were in the latter 2. I don't think its out of my scum range, personally, but you do not get to scumread an english major for lots of words lmao

[skirt skirt]

Avoiding this game actively until tomorrow because its pissing me off, peace