Sunny 2: Rules of Im-peachment - Over!

[SirCakez]

VOTE: cheet
I can't forgive you for what you did to me in the fifth fortnight

[SirCakez]

I haven't read anything I just legit am not gonna let Cheet roll over me again

[SirCakez]

Noraa you're scum aren't you?

[SirCakez]

cakez vote is fine.
he's just bitter that I won that game (:

VOTE: jake the wolf

BUT AT WHAT COST CHEET

[SirCakez]

I will not be moving my vote

[SirCakez]

vote: staypositivefriend

I hope we can all handle this little disagreement peacefully. Anyone want a peach?

Hmm, I want to townread you for saying this.

what do you find towny about that?

VOTE: SPF

welcome to Mafiascum ٩(◕‿◕)۶

thanks! i think i played half a game w/you on epicmafia that i ended up replacing out of

i'm excited to be here but i also tend to flood the thread a

lot

on my homesite, so i'm taking a more restrained approach and going w/the flow

VOTE: staypositivefriend
Serious vote
I feel irked by these posts

[SirCakez]

I will not be attempting to read Noraa today I don't think

Jake wagon is fine I guess but also that dude is pretty scummy as town (see Smoke-Filled Antechamber)

[SirCakez]

vote: staypositivefriend

I hope we can all handle this little disagreement peacefully. Anyone want a peach?

Hmm, I want to townread you for saying this.

what do you find towny about that?

VOTE: SPF

welcome to Mafiascum ٩(◕‿◕)۶

thanks! i think i played half a game w/you on epicmafia that i ended up replacing out of

i'm excited to be here but i also tend to flood the thread a

lot

on my homesite, so i'm taking a more restrained approach and going w/the flow

VOTE: staypositivefriend
Serious vote
I feel irked by these posts

Really? I don't see much wrong with them.

it's kinda gut but they just read scum-awkward
like the self-vote to open is a typical scum move
the question feels kinda forced
and the third post reads pre-apologetic, like they are expecting to be scumread

[SirCakez]

sorry bruv I have nothing more to add

[SirCakez]

I think Jake's response to the wagon is moreso town knowing his history~

Zaiden's entrance looks town
Gamma needs to get something better then his Jake vote
I think SPF's more recent posts looked better

VOTE: spring breeze

[SirCakez]

??? it's not I think it read genuinely
Why do you assume coaching?

[SirCakez]

??? it's not I think it read genuinely
Why do you assume coaching?

because he's new to FM specifically so his team / scumteam would probably tip him on what's best to do?

although idk

But his join date is in 2017

[SirCakez]

Cheet is well inside his scum range atm

[SirCakez]

I don't like Zaidens case for elimming Jake today

[SirCakez]

Not sure why midway is getting SRed I like his posting

[SirCakez]

Good work noraa

[SirCakez]

Thanks Maria <3

[SirCakez]

A lot of Zaidens posts feel like they're trying to project their town game and talk about things they do as town to try and replicate that same energy than just being town. Look at 225 for a good example.

There. 1 flaw. Happy?

ffs you say this and someone else tell me Zaidens is a noob to FM

[SirCakez]

Oh is Zaiden a Hectic alt?

[SirCakez]

Perhaps I will after I get more confidence.

pedit : i personally like monty's pythons, can we let him vibe for one day?

Yeah, I'm down.

Vote: Noraa

Might just be my unfamiliarity with Noraa, but I'm having trouble figuring out where she's coming from with her posts this far.

Also not overly liking Spring Breeze, but that's fine. Cheeto is good.

Pedit: Cheeto may not be good oh no. Hm.

Worst post in the thread so far ^^^^^^

Yeah it was really bad

[SirCakez]

Spring breeze's posting is still pretty scummy

[SirCakez]

Spring breeze's posting is still pretty scummy

in what way?

On reread they don't look as bad but they look fakeable in light of the bad entrance

[SirCakez]

PB I'm paranaid about you TRing me so easily here

[SirCakez]

I think Midway and I saw the same thing in your opening three posts

[SirCakez]

cheet slides closer to the scum pool

[SirCakez]

I don't want or need to engage u Cheet

[SirCakez]

I'll just say I think your Zaiden push blows

[SirCakez]

And in terms of the soft defense on zaiden, it just feels like the stilted approach is going to be unsustainable for scum in the long run.
Maybe a better way to put it is that I don't really think the slot can coast their way through the game.

This doesn't make any sense to me

[SirCakez]

Who are you talking about, Zaiden or someone else?

[SirCakez]

You're acknowledging he is a probable miselim though?

[SirCakez]

hm ok

[SirCakez]

I think Midway and I saw the same thing in your opening three posts

was this to me? i can't engage with you if you're gonna be like that and i'd like to cause i feel like there's no substantial reason to scumread me right now

yes

VOTE: zaiden i guess i dislike your vote on me the most.

reconsidering cheetory. i like his good faith to me and his haphazard randomness is quite townie. uncrowned also started reading the game and said he felt the same pings on midway early on and that hard push would probably be what he did if he was here.

speaking of midway, i agree with the townreads. i have little meta, but he's a strong PURE read for me. even his latest posts where he says his hot take of gamma town and then voting him 2 posts later. scum... probably don't do that

why do you feel the need to vote someone on your wagon

VOTE: Spring Breeze

also, explanation please

scummy
scum ask for explanations so they can defuse pressure

TSTBS.

what does this mean?

Zaiden 635 reads super genuine

@Cheet why did you suddenly start efforting on page 26

Hi Morning Tweet

[SirCakez]

Cakez, I'd like to know what prompted 585. Sorta felt like it came out of nowhere.
Pink Ball, were you serious when you said that Cakez's 95 was a great insight? It feels like "eh" reasoning to me.

579 and 580

[SirCakez]

what does this mean?

Zaiden 635 reads super genuine

@Cheet why did you suddenly start efforting on page 26

Hi Morning Tweet

Disagree that Zaiden reads genuine literally anywhere.
It means Too scummy to be scum.

ok I can buy too scummy to be scum on privateI
what do you think is fake about Zaiden?

[SirCakez]

scum ask for explanations so they can defuse pressure

So do town...?

sure but I felt the way SB asked about it felt more likely to be scum

[SirCakez]

sure but I felt the way SB asked about it felt more likely to be scum

Why's that?

Just a vibe I got
It was a one sentence post

[SirCakez]

How is it a strange take on Zaiden

[SirCakez]

Ok but I don't feel like Zaiden opens this way as scum here

[SirCakez]

He hasn't played with anyone here before and he immediately starts dumping walls into the thread about how unsure he is and starts picking at players as scum? He is just inviting people to analyze him with his playstyle atm.
What is with y'all and coaching?

[SirCakez]

Noraa your midway push doesn't make any sense to me

[SirCakez]

He hasn't played with anyone here before and he immediately starts dumping walls into the thread about how unsure he is and starts picking at players as scum? He is just inviting people to analyze him with his playstyle atm.

What if that's what he believed would be the most genuine replication of what he would be doing as town and he's just not able to capture that well?
Mafia don't always know the best way to approach a game.

I just don't think for your first game in a while with people you don't know this is how he enters

[SirCakez]

I think pink ball is playing to town meta

[SirCakez]

Outside of any reads (since that’s the only real answer I can provide atp) I’d have to say Cakez
I don’t wanna have to try to sort him down the line, and I don’t think he’s good enough as town to keep around if that’s the case

Rude af

[SirCakez]

I think pink ball is playing to town meta

as scum or town? (unclear on this phrasing sorry)

I mean I think he's town because he's playing like he has as town before

[SirCakez]

to be transparent myself, i feel like in this playerlist, i think scum are more likely to push me, because i'm not blatant lhf so it doe

Don't like this

[SirCakez]

*don't you

*Mods*

[SirCakez]

Nods
Not mods

[SirCakez]

Why wouldn't you choose to go after someone who's been a little less contentful (like Clidd/Morning Tweet, for example.)

I don't know how I feel about being left out of {lowpostingexamples} while you included someone who's not actually in this game.

Yo this seems very LAMIST

[SirCakez]

I already didn't like Jingles opening

[SirCakez]

BTW, the inventory mechanic has me suspecting that there is the possibility of power role distribution.

Town.

Sources say that midway is very scummy.

I haven't read anything yet.

Gross

Your last post is somewhat towny though.

Why do you think that?

Votes on Cheetory right now seem forced

forced from who, specifically? that's some pretty broad shade to throw if you're not gonna name names

Town

Noraa you're scum aren't you?

Nope.

To start this game off, I would like to present:

The Basterdies!

An award granted to players who have moderated at least one game I feel like fits the soul of Basterd Modding! What that means is fair yet fun game design that messes with players' heads.
Our recipients are:

1. Gypyx: His normal moderation practices exhibit strong adherence to the idea of Basterd Modding (games awarded for: Mini 2180, Mini 2169)
   
2. Flavor Leaf: on his account Boonskiies, he is a firm believer in the power of Basterd Modding, creating astonishingly creative and well-made theme games, generally staying normal-esque but sometimes breaking out of the normal-esque mold to create something truly wild! (games awarded for: Booneytoonz Extravaganza, Booneytoonz UPick: Boon There, Done That)
   
3. Dr Easy Bake: Using the moderating account of The Baker, he even has his own brand of modding to himself called Baker-Level Bastard, he loves moderating impressively well-crafted large themes that encapsulate his interest as well as the spirit of Basterd Modding. (games awarded for: Redneck Mafia, Guitarists Mafia)
   
4. Hectic:
   
5. thestatusquo
   
6. Cheetory6
   
7. Jake the Wolfie
   
8. almost50
   
9. the worst
   
10. Jingle
    
11. Pine
    
12. xRECKONERx

(I got sidetracked and decided I'd just rather post this in this state vs spend ?????? amount of time finshing it)

Trash tier. Both of those Gypyx games are Normals, and as such not not bastard at all. DEB should clearly have taken it, SirCakez, chk, and Ginngie didn't even make the list, and you didn't make a comprehensive list of all the Jester/Cult/Actually bastard games I've modded. Also, everybody knows Cheetory doesn't really exist and is just a puppet for the great and mighty Gork.

if i'm able to concentrate the momentum of the game onto a specific player early on, then it tells me a lot about both the dynamics of the game and the alignment of the player i'm pushing on.

Or it tells you how many people baa like a sheep.

I am your designated sheep captain, and all sheeps must answer to me.

hello, best town player of the earth here, let's catch some red PMs

Found one.

your head's all messed up then sir

and i think it's just gamma being gamma otherwise, now of course if he keeps thing that way i won't hesitate to hop on

pedit : what does pedantic mean?

pedantic: The quality of focusing on an insignificant detail to criticize the whole of an argument.

Zaiden, you are funny. Very very funny

Wrong.

Jingle feels particularly difficult to read atm.

Look, I'm flattered and all, but could you please stop rubbing my face? It got awkward about ten minutes in.

VOTE: Gypyx

Srs Business.

I was keeping this in my pocket but this wall seems so fake

[SirCakez]

all of the above

[SirCakez]

i dont

[SirCakez]

a Noraa wagon really? well yall are asking for it

[SirCakez]

cakez scumlean is from him feeling a lot more confident than Antechamber, closer to Among Us. - I think this might be CakezScum2.0 that he upgraded to when Cabd gave him a bunch of tips about how to play the red alignment. He's feeling very strong - like a jungle gorilla hunting for prey almost.

I have feeling more confident in general lately
The shadow cabal flows through me

cakez scumlean is from him feeling a lot more confident than Antechamber, closer to Among Us. - I think this might be CakezScum2.0 that he upgraded to when Cabd gave him a bunch of tips about how to play the red alignment. He's feeling very strong - like a jungle gorilla hunting for prey almost.

thanks for explaining. i just skimmed through cakez's ISO and the only real issue i take w/them is that a lot of their reads feel like they come from the place of cakez's feeling "obligated" to take stances.

I think Jake's response to the wagon is moreso town knowing his history~

Zaiden's entrance looks town
Gamma needs to get something better then his Jake vote
I think SPF's more recent posts looked better

VOTE: spring breeze

cakez throws out a lot of stances here but none of them feel substantiated, and all of them feel like stances that could easily come from scum on auto-pilot

i'm also concerned that cakez's defense of zaiden is coming from a place of TMI, in the sense that his confidence that zaiden is town is not proportional to his reasoning in the slightest

I read on tone a lot and Zaidens tone is just screaming green at me
So yes I feel strongly

[SirCakez]

Yeah i can sheep you on gyp
VOTE: gyp

[SirCakez]

I like spring breeze's recent posting better
I don't feel safe townbinning Cheet here

[SirCakez]

It probably is real but Cheet would get salty regardless of alignment here

[SirCakez]

Why not
Zaiden called him an asshole I'd be offended too

[SirCakez]

VOTE: Jingle

Pretty obvious scum tbh. That vote on me is actually like absolute crap. I expect better from jingle.

Jingle is scummy but this OMGUS is shit

[SirCakez]

1004 is kinda scummy

[SirCakez]

Noraa's posting seems kinda fake this game
Like she's playing to the idea of her town meta but not actually emotional
I only really started seeing it on these last two pages

[SirCakez]

/think
Maybe but I also just got badgered into this Gyp wagon and don't want to bail yet

[SirCakez]

Noraa what do u have to say to my read of you?

[SirCakez]

What wagon hopping
I've literally voted two people

[SirCakez]

Or rather seriously voted two people I'm not counting RVS

[SirCakez]

What wagon hopping
I've literally voted two people

you sheeped like so many votes if I remember correctly.

?????????????????????????????????????????????????

[SirCakez]

What wagon hopping
I've literally voted two people

you sheeped like so many votes if I remember correctly.

Really this is the most bullshit point I've had brought against me in ages

[SirCakez]

Noraa is vomiting so much crap into this thread
I'm asking my team for help reading her cuz I'm just ????

[SirCakez]

Ramcius also thinks noraa is scummy
He says she's too defensive, her reads are surface level, flip flopping, and doesn't like how she was setting up spring breeze for later

[SirCakez]

noraa have you ever considered ur playstyle is why you constantly die early rather than everyone else's fault

[SirCakez]

DGB thinks Noraa is scummy too

[SirCakez]

Also unwnd and me both agree Jingle has openly tried to pocket people like Cakez (and is doing it successfully)

Honestly, just take a glance at Jingles iso and read it slowly. I have it written another way in my notes but my teammates is funnier so:

'Everything Jingle types looks like a scummy cars saleman trying to sell me a rip off on words alone'

i still think Jingle is scummy

[SirCakez]

i still think Jingle is scummy

vote?

I can't vote all the scummy people q.q

[SirCakez]

btw, could someone do a sanity check for my points about gypx on viewtopic.php?p=12523324#p12523324 ? am i the only one who found that suspicious? it's weird that no one else took note of the stuff i brought up

I agree with you on this

[SirCakez]

I think Noraa is more cohesive than this as town

[SirCakez]

I don't even consider that game a real game
Nobody even tried and it was less than 20 pages

[SirCakez]

I don't even consider that game a real game
Nobody even tried and it was less than 20 pages

doesn't matter. I was UTR there and even if it was more active, I would've done just fine.

i am not using meta from that game sorry
i didn't get a grasp on you at all there

Maria, what do you think are the odds of cake scum here?

Besides the fact Jingle W means Cakez=T Cakez is still in his town game range on my notepad. He hasn't done one of his obvious tells yet. If that changes you'll know.

u better tell me what the obvious tells are at some point

[SirCakez]

For the Cakez discussion, I felt it was odd that Cakes held onto this stance they supposedly always had in 848 and only came out with it when it was convenient. So I want to ask Cakez, why did you decide to sit on those thoughts?

What thoughts?

[SirCakez]

I think I want to stick to the gyp wagon despite my suspicions of jingle and noraa
I have a good feeeling about it

[SirCakez]

Creature thinks Gamma, Gyp and Maria are suspiciously

[SirCakez]

I tend to always TR murder so this is me acknowledging my paranoia rn

[SirCakez]

Yeah good call on Maria SB
Creature raised some good points against her in our PT
Cheet's desire to sheep her is suspicious

[SirCakez]

I think it's weird that Maria has been townread by many for seemingly little reason yes

[SirCakez]

Cheet's desire to sheep her is suspicious

I think it would be more suspicious if it was made with intent to kill. Seemed more of pressure/temporary to me which is fine.

Yeah but why go to her immediately?

[SirCakez]

Yeah but why go to her immediately?

She has good reads generally and he townread her. I guess if you think he read was pre-emptive than sure, but I still think it was fine.

ok fair enough

will read up later

[SirCakez]

Creature

quick correction this was DGB not Creature

[SirCakez]

reading now whee

[SirCakez]

I don't really know what my read on Maria is but at least she's not SRing me for shit reasons is kinda my opinion on it.

Noraa this is such garbage and you know it
even if you are town you need to seriously rework whatever it is you're doing here

Cheet's desire to sheep her is suspicious

I'm imagining myself popping an inno child and you still somehow having doubts about me somehow masterminding this game. Lol.

don't worry it's just healthy paranoia <3

Yeah but why go to her immediately?

Townblocking, I'm following my gut on Maria because it's been marginally okay on reading her previously, I think Maria's a good townplayer/was confident about her read and Zaiden was not a townread.

do you TR Maria here now?

Imagine getting called sus cause 2 people townread each other and want to sheep/bounce reads off each other. Wild

this is a nasty mischaracterization

[SirCakez]

I am liking Morning Tweet's posting a good amount. into the town pile she goes. my teammates also think she is town.

i got 2 of my teammates (petapan & hercule) to ISO gypx for me, and they both came out of it agreeing that he's a slot that warrants more pressure/pushes. petapan thought that he was living up to his scum meta by not appearing to actually gamesolve & by going through the motions

noting this as a reason to keep on Gypyx

it's interesting to me that gyp is essentially LHF, but that there has been a fairly significant absence of pressure on him. i would almost expect a player like gypx to face a lot more pressure & opportunism from the scum team if he was town

unless there's some kind of meta reason why scum might be reluctant to go after him

*tea sip*

*checks wagon on me*

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

yeah idk man, being the second largest wagon at that time seems like low pressure to me

there's like two votes on you. this is not very good reasoning.

It's very amusing to hear that kind of argument since you couldn't get further from my personality if you tried. Anyway it's not like I'm going to be the day 1 fade. I can care less if you TR me or have me at null branch off me to more important matters unless you really find this so pressing.

really hate this post

I have feeling more confident in general lately
The shadow cabal flows through me

are you interning for cabd or something?

he is the darkness within me

No, it's not, because hand-waving me does nothing for me. You haven't interacted straight with me once and you're the slot im most interested in looking at by far.

You also bother to make Jingle your strongest SR, but you defer to Kanna(?) to get a read on me -- why? I have similar reasons to Jingle for suspecting you.

and you haven't said anything other than you expect better from him but that constitutes a full SR. Why are you treating me differently?

Do I seriously have to spell this out?
I do think town!you could have a read this terrible on me and legitimately think its gold for some reason or another.
I don't believe the same for Jingle.

really don't think town Noraa believe this

1004 is kinda scummy

we should kill this with fire

am i wrong though?

[SirCakez]

I am disliking Pooky's entrance here even if you completely separate his wonky push on me
my teammates also think Pink Ball is obvious town btw and I 75% agree

hey all, sorry for the recent inactivity, i'll be able to catchup soon

no i'm not pulling a Silent Star 3 i swear, got actual life issues lol

pedit : that ain't my scum meta lol

This feels like a town post.

I disagree its null at best

im comfortable calling cake scum at this point. wtf is with all the wagon hopping.

PRAISE JEEBUS

pooky ur gonna go into the scumbin if you sheep this literally proven to be a lie Noraa post

Far too many people think a couple games with me is enough to read me but that's incorrect.
Theres two types of people. The type that get it instantly and the type that never get it.
I haven't seen an in between before.
You always think scum!me is town!me.
maybe there's something wrong with the way you're reading me or maybe I'm just giving you a pass for nothing and you're scum here. either way, I don't want to engage you and you shouldn't be trying to sort me day 1 when everyone's calling me scum to begin with.

if you are town here stop with the OMGUS flaily crap and show me some of your town side
actually look for scum instead of repeating "jingle and co dont know how to read me therefore they are scum" over and over
i am literally extending an olive branch here

I keep reading cakez comments that feel like they r just echoing somebody else in the thread and agreeing with them - it's like he's a mirror and not actually pushing something that he's thinking about.

scum have used this exact logic to push me before

Hopkirk told me he's less confident about his reads on Morning Tweet and Jake and to defer to Hectic. Hectic liked what Morning's doing in 873 and 904. She knows Murder is good at reading Noraa, and knows Pooky is good at reading Kanna, so the questions are meaningful to him. Hectic reckons based on 656 if Nora is scum, one of the scum would be one of Jake or Jingle because scum tend to be hyper aware of their partner, so she could mistake people commenting on Jake as commenting on Jingle, but it's unlikely she would make the same mistake if Jake is scum and Jingle is town. I understood what he meant about being hyper aware but I didn't get how that affects the likelihood of making mistakes. In this scenario Hectic showed a preference to Jingle being town because 865 and 877 showed he didn't care about rubbing people the wrong way and openly admitted to that, which scum would be more interested in avoiding. I didn't like Jingle's interaction with MWB comparing my wagon with Nora's in 883 and whether that was framed a dichotomy of two choices when I think there should be more options for wagons on the table. Also I'm confused how Jingle came around to a PB townread. They don't explain much here but I assume it's because of PB's support on Nora's wagon? I don't follow the logic of how that led to that particular townread. For Nora's vote on Jingle, I have no idea whether Jingle is a good player and whether they are playing below their standards? Didn't see this was an OMGUS until Cakez pointed that out - but is the OMGUS here alignment indicative for Nora? I wouldn't know but don't get the impression OMGUS would be AI is based on how hard Nora flip flop between their town/scum reads?

OH god wtf is this. Hectic please send help asap if ur buddy Zaidan here is actually town. this paragraph be dumpster fire :/

Hey Nora, Hectic heard your pleas. He has told me something along the line that you're not trying to be too fluffy, sunshine and rainbows early on and its town indicative. He's reluctant to push the idea angry = town for you because he reckon you know that and could fake it although he doesn't really think you're faking it so far in this game. Make of that what you will. But I don't think Hectic's read is really important here because it doesn't sound very logical (because I personally think you have been quite fluffy/sunshine/rainbow in your approach) not to mention what he said hasn't really influenced my thought process. My personal read on you is townie for different reasons which I've given, though you may not be convinced by it becayse I'm trying to work with what I have having played a bunch of social deduction games in real life compared to forum.

For what MWB said about these arguments being weak for Hectic/Hopkirk being my teammates, I did leave out their reads that weren't contextual to the recent convo/developments at the time because my post was already getting bloated. I will look to talk about them over the rest of today. If MWB meant the points I took from them that I raised on an individual by individual basis, that was literally all I have to work with. If this is 'weak' or if people expected more I'm sorry. I'm trying but this is literally what my team has given me, and I've tweaked everything a bit because apparently we're not allowed to directly quote, but I think I've done alright in getting across the original spirit of what Hectic/Hopkirk were intending so that shouldn't be the issue.

Hectic knows Noraa pretty well so I am inclined to listen to hi mhere

[SirCakez]

Currently what I think is that jingle thinks I'm a pr and that's why he's pushing me.

Right, because nothing's easier to mis-exe than a PR.

I think he said to stop crumbing because that's a townie thing to say.
But the fact that he then goes after someone that he apparently thinks crumbed is just weird?

You know, I actually vibe with this reasoning. I would like to see Jingle address this.

why is every post you make a snipey one-liner? :3

Because concision is a virtue.

S_S is making a lot of nothingburger posts like these
where is the content S_S?

^If this style of post is better let me know if I'm doing it right. Some days I feel like I have to mega post and I can't make time for forum throughout the day until the evenings and there's too much content to catch up on, but I will do these sorts of focused quotation posts when I can.

it's better then what you were doing before

Cake and Maria are scum together

VOTE: Cake

y tho?

think i am townleaning morning a bit more strongly. this noraa attack was pretty bold and bold!morning=town!morning to me

I think I agree w/this

Cake and Maria are scum together

VOTE: Cake

FLAREON FRIEND ROLLED TOWN REJOICE ~!!!!!

this seems faked

Speaking of, could someone boil the case on Zaiden down for me? The only thing I can remember about it without looking back to check is a "He was coached" argument that I thought was inherently silly because I don't see Hectic as the type of person to recruit someone for Team Mafia to be a puppet. Hectic is way more about having a good time with fun people than that, and even if he wasn't I don't think he has the kind of ego to think "My best chances of winning is to be the only one playing." I could maybe see that type of teambuilding coming from RC or Koba, but even with someone that confident in their own skills I think they'd be more likely to recruit people they saw as being on a high level of initial play and also capable of taking direction well.

if Zaiden is indeed scum it is definitely with Jingle I think

Please vote cake, don't make me come in here and post any reasoning whatsoever cuz I'll do it.

I feel like you can ask Spring about things related to your reasoning without casing her in a way that would be a lot more productive than this.
Like, you've already put Spring under a microscope by voting for her and telling her you have a huge case on her.
Wouldn't it have been better to have not said anything about your read to see what happens
or to be pressuring them at this point because they're already going to be being careful?

also yeah, i wasn’t sure how I was supposed to respond to you with this, pink ball, but it’ll be a lot more productive if you could just engage with me. i am town and if you’re town, this would be very beneficial to you !

I don’t believe there’s a reason you can’t reconsider me either

It would be more productive if you focused in the game instead of 1 out of 17 players stating a scumread on you

townpost

Eh. A lot of Zaiden's posts have just made my eyes gloss over and not acknowledging that doesn't lead to him addressing that issue. It doesn't mean that he's wrong or that he's bad or that he's lesser, but it does give him an indication that trying to format his posts differently might lead to more effective communication.

I agree. But despite that, we still owe him the effort of trying to parse what he's saying.

sure but also what are your reads tho?

Check out S_S for me thanks. I haven't been wrong on this read and I'm pretty sure he's a wolf again

Ah jeez S_S has been a hot topic on our team. xtoxm agrees with you

ok S_S is officially in the scum pile thx

I think my Zaiden townread is slipping.

[SirCakez]

y'all get to see something rare. a sircakez readslist!

town - pink ball, morning tweet, spf
nulltown - spring breeze, jake, midwaybear
null - murdersunny, spring breeze, gamma
???/halp me/ever so slightly edging on scum - noraa, cheet, zaiden
nullscum - pooky, jingle
scum - something_smart, maria, gypyx

[SirCakez]

Cakez: Maria your posts suck

Also Cakez: Maria I agree with all your scumreads!
pedit: P R E A C H

wat

[SirCakez]

y'all get to see something rare. a sircakez readslist!

town - pink ball, morning tweet, spf
nulltown - spring breeze, jake, midwaybear
null - murdersunny, spring breeze, gamma
???/halp me/ever so slightly edging on scum - noraa, cheet, zaiden
nullscum - pooky, jingle
scum - something_smart, maria, gypyx

oops I put spring breeze in two places
I think I will call them nulltown for now

[SirCakez]

sure but also what are your reads tho?

Noraa town, Zaiden town, Cheet town, Jake maybe town, Cakez maybe town, Murdercat maybe town.

Ur missing a very important type of read here

[SirCakez]

S_S is making a lot of nothingburger posts like these

Is this related to your read on me?

Yes ofc

[SirCakez]

Ok I'm not using meta here

[SirCakez]

Ok I'm not using meta here

Then you're not trying to read me to the best of your ability. I don't see what's difficult about this.

Make town posts
Get town read

[SirCakez]

How are you defining "town post"?

[SirCakez]

yeah it's kind of a nothingburger in hindsight anyways.
someday I'll genuinely find a scumslip.

Good luck. Every one I've ever found has come from town.

Flea scumslipped recently in among us

So did any of GE/Cakez/Skitter actually go back and look at Betrayal like I asked?

I forgot
What part and what am I looking for

@sircakez -

sell me on maria!scum? it seems like something you're confident about, and i'm not there yet

Her nonchalance seems super fake and like an excuse to not scumhunt
She was not like this in last game I played with her

[SirCakez]

Zaiden if you can't read everything it's ok
Don't kill urself

[SirCakez]

I don't know what a mofu mofu is but thank you!

[SirCakez]

I don't think those were personal attacks dude

[SirCakez]

I think you are misinterpreting what Cheet meant

[SirCakez]

^can confirm

[SirCakez]

y tho?

[SirCakez]

VOTE: cakez

[SirCakez]

I'm not gonna beg u but I am very curious

[SirCakez]

now that TENET is over I can say I think Gypyx is playing to his scum meta from that game
<3 thanks for playing Gyp

[SirCakez]

You want me to tryhard for a post and take you down Zaiden? Really want me to start trying? Okay prep yourself.

can you even do this let's be real

[SirCakez]

Hi I am alive been busy today I see I'm being wagoned so at least Noraa has to say I'm town now due to her meta of me only being town when I'm wagoned day 1

[SirCakez]

I quick scanned the murdercat case and see some actually decent meta of me (and also some bad) but I am not playing how I have in the past as town here so I think I get why Murder is sring me

[SirCakez]

VOTE: gypyx
Placeholder til I read up

[SirCakez]

Quick skim says Cakez ISO should be a goldmine if he flips red.

Scummy ass post
Pushing a wagon without actually pushing me

[SirCakez]

He's basically saying "wow there could be a big reward here elim is worth it" without just saying that

[SirCakez]

I have not been trying here tbh so I will try to step up
I will note Gypyx's shift onto me looks awful considering I've been on him most of the game

[SirCakez]

Murder is the meta your whole case on me or is there something else?

[SirCakez]

I am not playing how I have in the past as town here

To elaborate on this - rather then death tunneling certain reads and not changing anything (which backfired on me in recent town games I;e in guns and roses where I misread and tunneled ABR so badly he vigged me) I'm trying to be more dynamic and analytical
Thus why I made the readslist

[SirCakez]

Noraa you're scum aren't you?

Cakez/Noraa scumteam? :3

I will not be attempting to read Noraa today I don't think

Jake wagon is fine I guess but also that dude is pretty scummy as town (see Smoke-Filled Antechamber)

I don't like either of these sentences.

maybe cakez scum TMIing jaketown

weird dis-engage off noraa

i like jingle/murdercat/mwb/pball/cheeto/noraa

kanna is hard-town for me.

my scumleans are spf/cakez

I wish people would acknowledge my game is evolving
People consistently fail to meta read me due to this

[SirCakez]

Oops forgot to delete those quotes
I was doing a Pooky iso of his SR on me but it turns out he did indeed actually say his reasoning so my quote wall collapsed

[SirCakez]

now that TENET is over I can say I think Gypyx is playing to his scum meta from that game
<3 thanks for playing Gyp

y'know, the reason i was playing like that is cuz that's my actual town meta

You can't just say "my scum game was my town meta" tho
That's not how meta works

[SirCakez]

- s_s, i am nullscumleaning for popping in at apparently the right moments to make jokes, but doesn't offer anything.

I'm glad we both saw this

[SirCakez]

the meta aspect of it is kind of meh
but there's maybe something to you having been not really coming across that invested in any vote this game?

(and I have had in the back of my mind that if you do flip red you've done a good job of setting me up to be pressured cooked lol)

Ya I haven't been invested in this game it's true lol

[SirCakez]

I can't get specific but other things ongoing on site have been > this game

[SirCakez]

the meta aspect of it is kind of meh
but there's maybe something to you having been not really coming across that invested in any vote this game?

(and I have had in the back of my mind that if you do flip red you've done a good job of setting me up to be pressured cooked lol)

Came away with the opposite conclusion, FWIW. I think a Cakez scumflip pretty much clears you.

Quick skim says Cakez ISO should be a goldmine if he flips red.

Scummy ass post
Pushing a wagon without actually pushing me

VOTE: jingle

[SirCakez]

also think Cakez is generally fine as a D1 lim

Rude

[SirCakez]

I'm procrastinating, so I'll humor it.

Why as scum do I push your wagon passively here if you're town?

Cuz when I flip town it doesn't blow up in your face

[SirCakez]

Murder is the meta your whole case on me or is there something else?

You don't have any real SRs from my POV

Did you read my readslist

[SirCakez]

I have quite clearly expressed scumreads on jingle, gyp, ss, Pooky
Also noraa earlier but I'm back to null with her

[SirCakez]

I'm glad we both saw this

glad how? you were afraid nobody else would notice it?

Glad because if someone else notices the same things you do it means you aren't just seeing things you're on the right track

[SirCakez]

y'all get to see something rare. a sircakez readslist!

town - pink ball, morning tweet, spf
nulltown - spring breeze, jake, midwaybear
null - murdersunny, spring breeze, gamma
???/halp me/ever so slightly edging on scum - noraa, cheet, zaiden
nullscum - pooky, jingle
scum - something_smart, maria, gypyx

Oh yeah and Maria!
I feel like my posts are not being read

[SirCakez]

I'm glad we both saw this

glad how? you were afraid nobody else would notice it?

Also - SS keeps asking me these fluffy questions but notice that he can't actually refute my SR on him

[SirCakez]

I am kinda irked that Noraa ignored my olive branch reach out post

[SirCakez]

Noraa please read my posts towards you that I made yesterday
My read on u has changed

[SirCakez]

Mainly because I feel your frustration towards constantly being elimmed is real

[SirCakez]

S_S is making a lot of nothingburger posts like these

Is this related to your read on me?

Yes ofc

ok S_S is officially in the scum pile thx

[SirCakez]

I am disliking Pooky's entrance here even if you completely separate his wonky push on me
my teammates also think Pink Ball is obvious town btw and I 75% agree

hey all, sorry for the recent inactivity, i'll be able to catchup soon

no i'm not pulling a Silent Star 3 i swear, got actual life issues lol

pedit : that ain't my scum meta lol

This feels like a town post.

I disagree its null at best

im comfortable calling cake scum at this point. wtf is with all the wagon hopping.

PRAISE JEEBUS

pooky ur gonna go into the scumbin if you sheep this literally proven to be a lie Noraa post

Far too many people think a couple games with me is enough to read me but that's incorrect.
Theres two types of people. The type that get it instantly and the type that never get it.
I haven't seen an in between before.
You always think scum!me is town!me.
maybe there's something wrong with the way you're reading me or maybe I'm just giving you a pass for nothing and you're scum here. either way, I don't want to engage you and you shouldn't be trying to sort me day 1 when everyone's calling me scum to begin with.

if you are town here stop with the OMGUS flaily crap and show me some of your town side
actually look for scum instead of repeating "jingle and co dont know how to read me therefore they are scum" over and over
i am literally extending an olive branch here

I keep reading cakez comments that feel like they r just echoing somebody else in the thread and agreeing with them - it's like he's a mirror and not actually pushing something that he's thinking about.

scum have used this exact logic to push me before

Hopkirk told me he's less confident about his reads on Morning Tweet and Jake and to defer to Hectic. Hectic liked what Morning's doing in 873 and 904. She knows Murder is good at reading Noraa, and knows Pooky is good at reading Kanna, so the questions are meaningful to him. Hectic reckons based on 656 if Nora is scum, one of the scum would be one of Jake or Jingle because scum tend to be hyper aware of their partner, so she could mistake people commenting on Jake as commenting on Jingle, but it's unlikely she would make the same mistake if Jake is scum and Jingle is town. I understood what he meant about being hyper aware but I didn't get how that affects the likelihood of making mistakes. In this scenario Hectic showed a preference to Jingle being town because 865 and 877 showed he didn't care about rubbing people the wrong way and openly admitted to that, which scum would be more interested in avoiding. I didn't like Jingle's interaction with MWB comparing my wagon with Nora's in 883 and whether that was framed a dichotomy of two choices when I think there should be more options for wagons on the table. Also I'm confused how Jingle came around to a PB townread. They don't explain much here but I assume it's because of PB's support on Nora's wagon? I don't follow the logic of how that led to that particular townread. For Nora's vote on Jingle, I have no idea whether Jingle is a good player and whether they are playing below their standards? Didn't see this was an OMGUS until Cakez pointed that out - but is the OMGUS here alignment indicative for Nora? I wouldn't know but don't get the impression OMGUS would be AI is based on how hard Nora flip flop between their town/scum reads?

OH god wtf is this. Hectic please send help asap if ur buddy Zaidan here is actually town. this paragraph be dumpster fire :/

Hey Nora, Hectic heard your pleas. He has told me something along the line that you're not trying to be too fluffy, sunshine and rainbows early on and its town indicative. He's reluctant to push the idea angry = town for you because he reckon you know that and could fake it although he doesn't really think you're faking it so far in this game. Make of that what you will. But I don't think Hectic's read is really important here because it doesn't sound very logical (because I personally think you have been quite fluffy/sunshine/rainbow in your approach) not to mention what he said hasn't really influenced my thought process. My personal read on you is townie for different reasons which I've given, though you may not be convinced by it becayse I'm trying to work with what I have having played a bunch of social deduction games in real life compared to forum.

For what MWB said about these arguments being weak for Hectic/Hopkirk being my teammates, I did leave out their reads that weren't contextual to the recent convo/developments at the time because my post was already getting bloated. I will look to talk about them over the rest of today. If MWB meant the points I took from them that I raised on an individual by individual basis, that was literally all I have to work with. If this is 'weak' or if people expected more I'm sorry. I'm trying but this is literally what my team has given me, and I've tweaked everything a bit because apparently we're not allowed to directly quote, but I think I've done alright in getting across the original spirit of what Hectic/Hopkirk were intending so that shouldn't be the issue.

Hectic knows Noraa pretty well so I am inclined to listen to hi mhere

this post noraa

[SirCakez]

How would it blow up in my face any less than if I just shut up and voted you?

cuz you're not on the wagon and when people were like "ok who was pushing cakez" you won't be the first to come up (well you might be now that I'm bringing this up) it will be people like Murder and Pooky

[SirCakez]

when people are like*

[SirCakez]

ye pretty much Jingle
Also - I'm not gonna bash through Murder's case because I don't think it's inaccurate. just a misreading of what I'm doing here.

[SirCakez]

this post noraa

this post is horrible tho..

why

[SirCakez]

this post noraa

this post is horrible tho..

why

uh cuz ew. wtf is this skinny little olive branch. a full on "yeah if ur town and being stupid as fuck, that sucks but you should stop????"
wtf????

its not like you don't know only my townplay is shitty.

i can't parse this

[SirCakez]

Basically you don't have content, you haven't given reads, and PB and Maria said they thought you were susp.

Well, I assume that if Cakez is sheeping Maria and PB then that's not something he would expect me to refute.

As for the other two, they are both observations on my play that are (a) no longer true and (b) have not been connected by Cakez in any way to my alignment, so the burden of proof is on him to show both why I'm more likely to behave that way as scum and why those reasons should still hold even though I have more content now.

i'm still reading up but judging from the last two pages not much has changed

[SirCakez]

He's approached me in such bad faith this whole time. It's like ew.

what the fuck does this mean

[SirCakez]

How would it blow up in my face any less than if I just shut up and voted you?

cuz you're not on the wagon and when people were like "ok who was pushing cakez" you won't be the first to come up (well you might be now that I'm bringing this up) it will be people like Murder and Pooky

Yeah, see the problem here is that you claim there would be literally any blowback for being on your wagon after you posted a tacit approval of Murder's case.

a miselim is a miselim

i'm still reading up but judging from the last two pages not much has changed

What exactly was your initial claim? Because I believe you phrased it as a rhetorical question ("where is the content?"). That implies that you think I have essentially zero content, which is certainly no longer true, though maybe that's not what you meant to imply.

that's obviously not what I meant

[SirCakez]

i think you're coasting by and not producing much notable content or scumhunting
but zero content obviously not nobody has zero content

[SirCakez]

don't really think the realtime response stuff is doing you favours rn cake.
might be better off to compile a comprehensive response with your thoughts?

it's hard because I'm multitasking this game with some other things
I'm writing up a response to Noraa and then I will finish reading

[SirCakez]

Noraa I'll be frank with you here and I don't give a fuck how you read me from it.

Your playstyle is extremely unfun to play with, and moreso it actively makes scumhunting and solving harder.
I think regardless of alignment the way you play helps scum. It spams up the thread, puts off the people who are trying to read you in good faith because you scream at anyone who dares scumread you, and it also just generally makes people feel bad for playing mafia.
When I asked my team for help reading you most of them did not really know how to help me, because your playstyle is so erratic, overtly emotional and seemingly based on pushing those who scumread you and buddying up to whoever doesn't. Cheet basically called this out earlier but more politely then I am.
It is not fun and difficult to play with someone who will spend large portions of the game spreading fluffy cat gifs or whatever and then goes off on anyone who dares criticize them.
I think it's also making life harder for you as a player. There's a reason you die early on so much and it's not because everyone else sucks. There's a saying or something that goes like "if you encounter one asshole, they're the asshole. If everyone you encounter is an asshole, that just means you're the asshole." In this scenario, it's not everyone else's fault for all of the fights you get in.


I do want to PS this by saying none of this is targeting you as a person. I think you are a very pleasant person and I'm glad you are on MS. But I feel like I had to get this off my chest.

[SirCakez]

While I'm still reading up I also just want to pitch in that after the events of Xenoblade 2 I decided I was not going to get emotionally invested into mafia anymore because it was way too difficult for me pouring all my guts out into that game only to be elimmed 48 hours into the game anyways. I just can't get into that angry sad mad state of mind anymore, it's not good for me.
So I'm sure y'all have noticed that I'm not really flipping out at this wagon on me like I used to as town and that's why.
If I get elimmed I'll be bummed af especially because I let my team down but I'm not going to start screaming and crying. I'm just not.

[SirCakez]

Cheet I have to say you are much more pleasant to play with this game than previously and I'm happy about that.
Even disregarding the fact that you are not deathtunneling me I think you are much more relaxed and less snarky and it's a lot more fun to play with.

[SirCakez]

- murdersunny; i have seen murdercat in other games though and he generally has a lot to say. the fact he's popped in a few times and said he's had nothing to say/nothing is happening feels strange because i almost feel like he wouldn't be able to contain his opinions as town if he's town. the change in playstyle is leantown, but it also lets him get away with not offering opinions. i'm fully open to looking at his case though

Noo don't be scum Kanna

My heart </3

i don't understand this. is this a serious play at SRing Spring/kanna because they criticized you

Why would I fake a read as scum this early in the game?

this is such a logic fail
why would scum fake reads?
hmm I wonder
This is an example of the kind of inane stuff that fills S_S's ISO

Hi everyone it's time to eject the impostor please place your votes on I guess it would be light blue given his avatar.

Thanks Cheet <3

Also when you talk about wanting to focus Jake or S_S, what do you (and other people) generally make of the possibility that Cakez was trying to pocket me? Unwarranted paranoia from Team Team Team Team Team or genuine ground for that to be a possibility? I'm generally reading you as less scummy now but the way you haven't really engaged with that angle when I've spoken about it (you bad cop Cakez good cop scum buddy routine) is making me wonder if you're intentionally avoiding it.

I like that Zaiden is acknowledging I could be scum trying to pocket him and is pushing on that accordingly. I don't think he would go this route as scum, it just doesn't make sense to antagonize someone who is defending you.

On Pooky, do other people think scum!Pooky is more likely to sit back or more likely to control the game? I haven't sensed vibes from Pooky trying to control discourse, but I reckon there are other low key ways of controlling the game (really influencing 1-3 individuals and I get the feeling if Pooky was influencing anyone it would be Spring Breeze here) and forming your own bloc. I want more people to talk about Pooky like Spring Breeze does here because I'm not getting a good grasp of Pooky/Spring Breeze here and there's less discussion around them compared to Nora.

Scum Pooky was very much laid-back and not controlling in TENET recently. He seems to be playing to that meta here.

[SirCakez]

So Jake's engagement this game doesn't feel survivalistic to you without the much needed added component of genuine scumhunting going along with it?

It seems like he's scumhunting just fine to me.

Of course it's survivalistic, but that's not a bad thing. He's clearly been mis-exed before and is wary of it happening again.

This is something I can agree with S_S on. Jake here kinda feels like a beaten puppy who doesn't want to get hit again. Which I find to be more townie.

So did everybody just ignore PrivateI?

I have sorta forgotten about him. Somebody made a decent argument for him being LHF!town iirc? I just don't think he's worth pushing atm. But I will keep him in the back of my mind.

I should've specced Tenet, apparently. Seems like everyone in this game was in it.

You should have it was awesomemosewa saw ti evah dluohs uoY

Ur way late. If u wanna read, you'll have approximately 800 pages to catch up.

I reviewed it, but didn't bother reading along after Cakez said he had another backup mod. Did the setup turn out alright?

the scum team spent approximately 500 posts complaining to cakez about how incredibly townsided the setup was

THEY SURE DID

[SirCakez]

If S_S's Jake discussion is the "content" he's been referring to then I'm not super impressed. Certainly not enough to drop my SR.

[SirCakez]

something_smart, who do u wanna chop today? where are you immediately looking right now?

I don't know, and I don't especially care. The D1 execution doesn't matter much in the long run, especially in a large.

^ this kind of stuff reads especially scummy to me.

oh no i forgot gamma and PI

i’ll organise my tiers/see if my team updates me on some iso reads i asked them to do tomorrow. it’s so late

Understandable that you forgot me
I might try to put in a little effort today.

I also forgot Gamma was in this game. Not a good sign. I know he's been dealing with stuff irl but he doesn't even seem to be trying.

Nice. My read on Jake is not super confident, but I still think he is a decent wagon. I think Something_Smart's reasons for townreading him are way too forced. A pattern I see a lot is people lower their expectations for LHF players and end up conf biasing a townread on them. I don't really find Jake's early game townie, I didn't find his answers when he interacted with me to be townie, and now he has basically gone not under but off the radar.
By the way, what prompted you to give Jake an ISO SS? Wonder if this is what you normally would do.

I like the logic and scumhunting midway puts in this post. I'm not sure if I agree Jake is a good wagon though.

Cakez is scum

I got your TLDR summary right here noraa.

I forgot if I said this earlier but I think this post was pretty scummy. He's taking advantage of Noraa here. He also is not presenting any original scumhunting or content of his own (and hasn't for a while).

also just passing by cuz i though about something, but guys pls refrain your urge to massclaim, like, it always ends up being bad for town

Scummy LAMIST post. This is like a textbook scumtell.

also just passing by cuz i though about something, but guys pls refrain your urge to massclaim, like, it always ends up being bad for town

Nobody is talking about claiming though

^^^^

[SirCakez]

hey gypyx, can u give me a quick summary of your reads right now? who's maf? who do u wanna chop today? help me see where ur head is at

It's past midnight where he is. Let him rest.

@Noraa why cut in for Gypyx here?

uh fine, really quick though as i really have to sleep

town : cheet / SPF / MWB / gamma?

scum : MariaR / Cakez / Pooky??? (need to read)

Noraa : Noraa

also have a read on murder that i'm not willing to disclose until future events

pedit : ty noraa, very cool

This readslist does not make much sense in the context of both Gypyx's ISO and of the game.

[SirCakez]

i think you're coasting by and not producing much notable content or scumhunting

What do you consider to be notable content?

Real scumhunting, reads, useful questioning (not the fluffy stuff you've been outputting), etc.

I wasn't always like this.
But when you die far too many games day 1 because of meta reasons, it does take a toll on ur play style.

I started off my time on this site with three scum games and from there everyone just kept thinking I was scum ... I suppose out of fear? But that lead to way too many mislims in a row and I'm very sick and tired of it.

Whenever I'm nice and mellow, people take advantage of it and I just die a flashwagon. What do you want me to do?

Noraa I get elimmed CONSTANTLY. I have now been through the AtE gamut of attempts to survive. It didn't work for me. You just have to take these things in stride and move on.
I don't think your current playstyle is helping you get elimmed less. If anything, it's making things worse.

Scum Pooky was very much laid-back and not controlling in TENET recently. He seems to be playing to that meta here.

Two different games. I wouldn't use meta here.

I can throw out the meta but what do you mean by two different games?

Cheet I have to say you are much more pleasant to play with this game than previously and I'm happy about that.
Even disregarding the fact that you are not deathtunneling me I think you are much more relaxed and less snarky and it's a lot more fun to play with.

<3

I've definitely had my bad moments this game already, but I do appreciate that you think I'm at least marginally better than I used to be.

I mean I can be a huge dick too. We just gotta try to be better.

Don't focus too much on people pushing you and focus on other players. You have good scumhunting skills; use them instead of getting winded up on people you won't be able to read 'cause you're being pushed by them. At least if you die and flip green you'll leave us with good inputs to follow. It's a team game after all

This is such a lie. When I'm nice and mellow, I always die a flash wagon and then everyone completely forgets about me until post game and I get a puny "sorry" from everyone and then they just do the same fucking thing to me in the next game. None of them fucking learn. No one has fucking learned. And the people that know my meta just let me die and watch. They know I'm town but wtf use is it if I die anyways? I die a day 1/2 flash wagon everytime I'm nice. WTF does this stupid site want me to do. No one gives a shit towards what I say when I'm being nice. I could solve the whole game day 1 and they wouldn't care.

I think you need to reset your meta because what you have right now is not working.
I will say independently of my meta from earlier (which I now realize was pretty bad) I think you are townish.

If S_S's Jake discussion is the "content" he's been referring to then I'm not super impressed. Certainly not enough to drop my SR.

I mean, all of the things I've said today. It's more than just that. But like, the content being impressive wasn't part of the read... content is content.

(Also, you still haven't said why my content being low is even connected to my alignment.)

Because low content = less focus on you = not getting elimmed or targeted at night.

^ this kind of stuff reads especially scummy to me.

Why? It seems to me that it's very clearly a pronouncement of overall game philosophy. Like if this were a lie surely someone who knows me would call me out, no?

Because it's fluffy and the nonchalance gives you an excuse to not scumhunt.

When I ignore them, they charge at me like morning did like "WHY ARENT YOU FUCKING REPLYING"
If I reply, I'm over defensive.
If I SR someone that previously said they found me slightly scummy, its omgus.
If I talk a little too much, its scum spamming.
If I talk too little, I'm being too quiet and therefore scum.
If I'm not producing content, its scum motivated.
If I'm producing too much content, its not town Noraa because town Noraa likes to fluff.

People keep finding fault in my play style and it is frustrating. The SRs are endless and I explain and more comes. What point is there in trying to work with anyone if the moment I start getting frustrated and flailing, every player on MS is gonna point and call it scum?
That's how it always is and its frustrating.
I have a scummy play style and I get it. But people need to stop tunneling me day 1.
That is NOT the way to sort me because I WILL flail and people will just call it scummy.

I feel you dude. I feel you.
That's how Mafia and this site are. People will always find ways to scumread you. But you have to move forward and try to work with people. Not murder anyone who looks at you wrong.

[SirCakez]

@Noraa why cut in for Gypyx here?

is there a problem?

I just thought it was curious. It's not like Gyp needed the help.

[SirCakez]

I am caught up.

VOTE: Gypyx

This is my strongest scumread for reasons you can see scattered through my catchup. I also strongly SR Something_Smart, Jingle and Maria.
I am a little less sure about Pooky so I will call him nullscum.

[SirCakez]

Something_Smart's whole discussion with me has felt scummy. It feels like he is nitpicking to try to weasel out of my reasons for him being scum. Rather then him just accepting that he looks scummy here (which I think is undeniable) and moving on.

[SirCakez]

Scum Pooky was very much laid-back and not controlling in TENET recently. He seems to be playing to that meta here.

because the entire game state was being controlled by Cabd and LLD so I had no need to take control at any point except D1 when I kind of did it for lulz.

and you kind of know this since you were in the scum discord with us that I was deferring to cabd pretty much the entire game so kinda mis-reppy for you to use that to meta me here?

I know. I think this is a fair point and I'll drop it.

This wagon on Gypyx is pretty disgusting imo.

Why?

[SirCakez]

I can throw out the meta but what do you mean by two different games?

This game isn't going like TENET(hopefully), so I don't think Pooky acting like scum!him there means he is scum here. Different game situations mean that meta probably shouldn't be used (I think).

Ok

i don't love how vague cakez is w/his explanation for why spring breeze's early posting was scummy. he seemed to observe something suspicious/wolfy about her, but the reasoning he provides is simply: "her posts look fakeable". acknowledging that something looks fakeable vs finding something fakeable are two different things, and it's a little weird that cakez conflates the two here

I didn't out this at the time because I wanted to see if Spring Breeze would continue the behavior. They didn't so I feel better calling her town.

there's nothing inherently scum indicative about that progression, but cakez's ISO is so devoid of concrete explanations for his reads that it makes it difficult to evaluate if his read on spring is coming from a place of genuine re-evaluation. i would like him to explain his current stance/progression on spring

If you ask me about anything I can explain. I tend to not outline every shift in my reads. Sometimes things will come to me while I'm reading and I won't specifically note them but they will affect my reads.

Real scumhunting, reads, useful questioning (not the fluffy stuff you've been outputting), etc.

You have replaced unclear terminology with more unclear terminology. I have scumhunted; it's real because I am town. I assume you mean that it doesn't look real, which is just a fancy way of saying you scumread me and not really an explanation of anything.

I have given reads. If it's not enough, well, sorry. It's not like making up reads is especially hard as scum; if anything, forming real ones as town is harder.

I have asked questions that are useful to me. They generally pertain to asking people to explain things that aren't clear to me, which seems about as useful as you can get. Can you elaborate on the difference between a fluffy question and a useful one?

I disagree. I feel like what I mean is very clear (someone else is free to correct me on this).
These are some of the "questions" that I have found fluffy, things with obvious answers and things that don't really progress anything with their answering:

How are you defining "town post"?

Why would I fake a read as scum this early in the game?

I don't really like cake here but I never like cake so there's that.
Pooky is acting weird this game. He's giving off weird vibes and idk what it means tbh. I feel like this is soulread material but I have zero idea what these weird vibes actually mean.
I kinda wish I could feel the infinity vibes more. I'm not feeling heavy soul mason energy from kanna :/
I think I like Cheetory.
Anyone that's TRing Jake is weird. I don't see a single reason to TR him tbh.
Spf prob town.
Gypyx town off of gut.
midway null.
Cant remember who else is in the game off the top of my head.

Can you output more content of this kind? Thanks <3

I mean we're waiting on a few different things right now.
You probably have time to put together something a little less.. uh..
scattered? shotgunned? Just seems like you're not going to be able to properly respond to 3-4 people asking you a barrage of questions in real time while also laying out why you're town and someone is mafia.

^townpost. Partner cheetory doesn't want to post something like this while Cakez is on a downward slope, nonpartner cheetory doesn't want Cakez to stop spiraling.

Jingle is still scum btw. I didn't feel like I needed to say it again but he's spewing scum in a lot of ways. His posts are basically all really bad??? Like everything he says is a huge reach and I feel like town Jingle is much more .... reasonable with his arguments.

I agree that Jingle is scummy. I think it would help your argument a lot if you call out some of these specific reachy posts.

low content = less focus on you

Really? I thought lurkers got executed at a higher than normal rate. I already said that I've been pressured for low content in many of my recent games. Maybe in the short term this is true, but in the long term (and by long term I mean like half of one game day), it definitely isn't.

I wasn't aware of that lurkers fact (recently if anything it has felt to me like high-posters are getting yeeted first). And like I said I'm not using meta on you here.

I might be tunneled on Jake.
UNVOTE:

How the fuck do you tunnel on a slot that just isn't there?

Scummy post. Seems like Jingle is mad town is getting off of town.

Because it's fluffy and the nonchalance gives you an excuse to not scumhunt.

I interpret "fluffy" to mean "not game-relevant". Is that not what you're meaning by it?

Because that post was a direct response to a question, so it's not like it can really be irrelevant. And I mean yeah, it's convenient when I'm scum. But it's also just the way I play so like, it isn't scummy in this case. This isn't something I can lie about and get away with.

No it's not. I mean stuff that looks game-relevant and scumhunty but doesn't really do anything.

Something_Smart's whole discussion with me has felt scummy. It feels like he is nitpicking to try to weasel out of my reasons for him being scum. Rather then him just accepting that he looks scummy here (which I think is undeniable) and moving on.

It's undeniable that you scumread me. It's not undeniable that I'm scummy, because that's a subjective thing. I'm trying to understand what you're actually thinking, in part so I can respond and in part just so I can understand it and sort you. I don't think it's nitpicking, and I also find it weird that you think that scum-me would go "oh, Cakez has caught me, better nitpick and argue with him, that will definitely get him to change his mind!"

That was sorta misworded on my part. I think it's undeniable that you are low content, coasting (up until here), not really scumhunting. I guess some people might find that not scummy.
Why would you not be arguing with me here?

S_S' s only scummy thing this game is that they are full of IIoa.
They aren't talking that much game related/useful/helpful things.
A lot of what they say is entirely useless and like sideline-y.
If that's the scum case, its weak but I do buy it.

Noraa words what I'm feeling well here.

There are things that I've done this game that I think are much more likely to come from town me than scum me

I also find this scummy. It's really vague and is an excuse to give himself townpoints.

Well what would you do as scum then?

Probably something similar, maybe a little less intense. But I would be genuinely doing it to understand, and not to change his mind.

Ok so this is basically admitting you are doing what you'd do as scum.

[SirCakez]

Scummy post. Seems like Jingle is mad town is getting off of town.

Why can't he also be confused as to why I hopped off of a low content slot?

I'm reading into the intention behind it.

[SirCakez]

Why is that not his intent?

It could be but I think it seems like something scum would post more often then town.

[SirCakez]

Mad was an overstatement sure.

[SirCakez]

@Murder where are you drawing the line between shade and scumreading? Because to me it feels like you are characterizing everything I say as shade when that's not true.
I don't see how you can call a post where I directly call Pooky scummy to be shade. That's not shade, that's scumhunting.

[SirCakez]

I forgot if I said this earlier but I think this post was pretty scummy. He's taking advantage of Noraa here. He also is not presenting any original scumhunting or content of his own (and hasn't for a while).

Stuff like this is just shadeeee
This isn't scummy it's basically a joke

This post

[SirCakez]

I haven't posted anything about Maria because she has not posted anything significant since I last posted.

[SirCakez]

You seem to think I should be pushing like five different people at once.
That's just reality. I'm working on Gyp and SS right now.

[SirCakez]

@Murder where are you drawing the line between shade and scumreading? Because to me it feels like you are characterizing everything I say as shade when that's not true.
I don't see how you can call a post where I directly call Pooky scummy to be shade. That's not shade, that's scumhunting.

Scum hunting involves actually questioning people, questioning yourself, and getting people to agree with you when you think you are right, calling stuff scummy with no follow up is just shade.

How did I not follow that up though? Pooky is in my SRs and I'm waiting on them to come back to the thread so I can do more.

[SirCakez]

IMO shade is when somebody is going all "hey that vote is bad" or "that person is fluffy" but they don't actually do anything with it. But these people are in my scumreads and I'd happily vote them if there was a wagon there.

[SirCakez]

You seem to think I should be pushing like five different people at once.
That's just reality. I'm working on Gyp and SS right now.

I don't think you are pushing anyone

Are you expecting me to come out and spam "hey everybody vote Gypyx he's scum!!!!!!!!!!!!!11" over and over?
B/c that's not my playstyle.

[SirCakez]

How would it blow up in my face any less than if I just shut up and voted you?

cuz you're not on the wagon and when people were like "ok who was pushing cakez" you won't be the first to come up (well you might be now that I'm bringing this up) it will be people like Murder and Pooky

Yeah, see the problem here is that you claim there would be literally any blowback for being on your wagon after you posted a tacit approval of Murder's case.

Oh yeah I was thinking about this game last night and I remembered this post. This is another example of Jingle's stuff that looks fine on the surface but you can see big scum intentions behind it. He's basically setting up approval for himself and other people to vote me and then passes for when I flip town (i;e "oh well he admitted he was scummy").
Which is also just ignorant of what I was getting at there.

[SirCakez]

IMO shade is when somebody is going all "hey that vote is bad" or "that person is fluffy" but they don't actually do anything with it. But these people are in my scumreads and I'd happily vote them if there was a wagon there.

Why not try to start a wagon? You seem very passive.

PEdit: I expect you to not just sit on your hands as the game moves by, there is room between what you are doing and LLD death tunnels

I don't understand what you're expecting me to do here. "start a wagon" like how? Write a case? I only do that rarely.

[SirCakez]

IMO shade is when somebody is going all "hey that vote is bad" or "that person is fluffy" but they don't actually do anything with it. But these people are in my scumreads and I'd happily vote them if there was a wagon there.

Why not try to start a wagon? You seem very passive.

PEdit: I expect you to not just sit on your hands as the game moves by, there is room between what you are doing and LLD death tunnels

I don't understand what you're expecting me to do here. "start a wagon" like how? Write a case? I only do that rarely.

Also it's already been shown that people are not listening to me this game.

[SirCakez]

y'all get to see something rare. a sircakez readslist!

town - pink ball, morning tweet, spf
nulltown - spring breeze, jake, midwaybear
null - murdersunny, spring breeze, gamma
???/halp me/ever so slightly edging on scum - noraa, cheet, zaiden
nullscum - pooky, jingle
scum - something_smart, maria, gypyx

oops I put spring breeze in two places
I think I will call them nulltown for now

A wagon is starting on spring breeze, how about you commit to a position on her? Maybe read her iso?

I haven't read up yet I was just addressing stuff on this page. I can do this.

[SirCakez]

I want to preface this wall @SS by saying that I don't think this is being productive anymore and if you're town here you should go off and do your own thing because this conversation isn't changing my mind.

First question was me doing the same thing I'm doing now, trying to get into the actual meat of your scumread. I can understand that being annoying, but it was literally just me trying to find out what you wanted.

Second question was a genuine question that I feel like you're glossing over. What would be the advantage to me, as scum, faking a townread on someone I didn't genuinely think was behaving in a towny way? I think I would expect resistance to that read and probably confusion over it to almost certainly follow.

I can understand these. My point is that I feel like you're not really producing that much with things like this. Noraa noted the same thing.

You don't have to. All that that argument requires is the knowledge that someone in this game has meta on me (many people do, of course). As long as there's someone here who knows me, I can't lie about something that fundamental.

Ok

So... answering a direct question doesn't do anything? What would you expect me to do as town, lie? Ignore it?

Again you're missing the overall points of what I am getting at.

Well... I would be. As either alignment. So it's not a scum tactic to change your mind, it's just how I operate. If you think I'm doing it as a scum tactic, that necessitates believing that I wouldn't do it as town.

Ok well I'm reading scum intention behind it. That doesn't mean I don't think you would argue as town, that just means in this specific case I find it scummy.

[SirCakez]

With PB's SB case I am highly townreading him and also respect his scumhunting prowess so I am willing to sheep it for sure. LLD just posted something in the Tenet post-game chat that made me think about how sometimes it's good to just go along with others to progress the game and then re-eval from there.
I also find cases of this magnitude are usually pretty accurate and come from town.

Still reading through it but wanted to get this out there

[SirCakez]

One thing with the case - why can't SB and Pooky just be scum buddies rather then SB pocketing Pooky?

You know, the point of inflection. The naked vote. The lack of explanation. The paranoia. What's worse than being scumread as scum? Being scumread and not knowing why. You convince yourself that you're doing something wrong, but you don't know why. You have based your game on not being judged, yet someone is doing it. You have no real insights to give and the guy who's scumreading you isn't giving you his own insights to reply to.

Really good point.

Ok after reading that PB can have my vote. I have faith in him and the case has good reasoning.
VOTE: Spring Breeze

[SirCakez]

Murder is the meta your whole case on me or is there something else?

You don't have any real SRs from my POV

Did you read my readslist

Ok let's take a look

y'all get to see something rare. a sircakez readslist!

town - pink ball, morning tweet, spf
nulltown - spring breeze, jake, midwaybear
null - murdersunny, spring breeze, gamma
???/halp me/ever so slightly edging on scum - noraa, cheet, zaiden
nullscum - pooky, jingle
scum - something_smart, maria, gypyx

Spoiler: everything you've said about Pooky

I am disliking Pooky's entrance here even if you completely separate his wonky push on me
my teammates also think Pink Ball is obvious town btw and I 75% agree
*snip*

im comfortable calling cake scum at this point. wtf is with all the wagon hopping.

PRAISE JEEBUS

pooky ur gonna go into the scumbin if you sheep this literally proven to be a lie Noraa post
*snip*

I keep reading cakez comments that feel like they r just echoing somebody else in the thread and agreeing with them - it's like he's a mirror and not actually pushing something that he's thinking about.

scum have used this exact logic to push me before
*snip*

Cake and Maria are scum together

VOTE: Cake

FLAREON FRIEND ROLLED TOWN REJOICE ~!!!!!

this seems faked

Did I miss anything or was it just these two posts?

Spoiler: Everything about Jingle

Why wouldn't you choose to go after someone who's been a little less contentful (like Clidd/Morning Tweet, for example.)

I don't know how I feel about being left out of {lowpostingexamples} while you included someone who's not actually in this game.

Yo this seems very LAMIST

I already didn't like Jingles opening

*snip*
I was keeping this in my pocket but this wall seems so fake

VOTE: Jingle

Pretty obvious scum tbh. That vote on me is actually like absolute crap. I expect better from jingle.

Jingle is scummy but this OMGUS is shit

Also unwnd and me both agree Jingle has openly tried to pocket people like Cakez (and is doing it successfully)

Honestly, just take a glance at Jingles iso and read it slowly. I have it written another way in my notes but my teammates is funnier so:

'Everything Jingle types looks like a scummy cars saleman trying to sell me a rip off on words alone'

i still think Jingle is scummy

I think I want to stick to the gyp wagon despite my suspicions of jingle and noraa
I have a good feeeling about it

*snip*

*snip*

if Zaiden is indeed scum it is definitely with Jingle I think
*snip*

You're just kind of calling him scummy, no substance.

Spoiler: SS

Currently what I think is that jingle thinks I'm a pr and that's why he's pushing me.

Right, because nothing's easier to mis-exe than a PR.

I think he said to stop crumbing because that's a townie thing to say.
But the fact that he then goes after someone that he apparently thinks crumbed is just weird?

You know, I actually vibe with this reasoning. I would like to see Jingle address this.

why is every post you make a snipey one-liner? :3

Because concision is a virtue.

S_S is making a lot of nothingburger posts like these
where is the content S_S?
*snip*

*snip*

sure but also what are your reads tho?

Check out S_S for me thanks. I haven't been wrong on this read and I'm pretty sure he's a wolf again

Ah jeez S_S has been a hot topic on our team. xtoxm agrees with you

ok S_S is officially in the scum pile thx

Not a lot here either?

Spoiler: Maria

Creature thinks Gamma, Gyp and Maria are suspiciously

Yeah good call on Maria SB
Creature raised some good points against her in our PT
Cheet's desire to sheep her is suspicious

I think it's weird that Maria has been townread by many for seemingly little reason yes

I don't really know what my read on Maria is but at least she's not SRing me for shit reasons is kinda my opinion on it.

Noraa this is such garbage and you know it
even if you are town you need to seriously rework whatever it is you're doing here

Yeah but why go to her immediately?

Townblocking, I'm following my gut on Maria because it's been marginally okay on reading her previously, I think Maria's a good townplayer/was confident about her read and Zaiden was not a townread.

do you TR Maria here now?

Imagine getting called sus cause 2 people townread each other and want to sheep/bounce reads off each other. Wild

this is a nasty mischaracterization

*snip*

It's very amusing to hear that kind of argument since you couldn't get further from my personality if you tried. Anyway it's not like I'm going to be the day 1 fade. I can care less if you TR me or have me at null branch off me to more important matters unless you really find this so pressing.

really hate this post

*snip*

Noticing a pattern here...

Spoiler: gypyx

*snip*

i got 2 of my teammates (petapan & hercule) to ISO gypx for me, and they both came out of it agreeing that he's a slot that warrants more pressure/pushes. petapan thought that he was living up to his scum meta by not appearing to actually gamesolve & by going through the motions

noting this as a reason to keep on Gypyx

*snip*

there's like two votes on you. this is not very good reasoning.
*snip*

*snip*

hey all, sorry for the recent inactivity, i'll be able to catchup soon

no i'm not pulling a Silent Star 3 i swear, got actual life issues lol

pedit : that ain't my scum meta lol

This feels like a town post.

I disagree its null at best
*snip*

I said this earlier to SPF but I tend to not overtly explain reads unless someone asks about them. So yeah you can say there's no "substance" but you cannot argue I'm not being clear with why I'm scumreading people.
None of these reads seem developed at all? Quote anything I missed (from pre-readlist) though.

[SirCakez]

Murder is the meta your whole case on me or is there something else?

You don't have any real SRs from my POV

Did you read my readslist

Ok let's take a look

y'all get to see something rare. a sircakez readslist!

town - pink ball, morning tweet, spf
nulltown - spring breeze, jake, midwaybear
null - murdersunny, spring breeze, gamma
???/halp me/ever so slightly edging on scum - noraa, cheet, zaiden
nullscum - pooky, jingle
scum - something_smart, maria, gypyx

Spoiler: everything you've said about Pooky

I am disliking Pooky's entrance here even if you completely separate his wonky push on me
my teammates also think Pink Ball is obvious town btw and I 75% agree
*snip*

im comfortable calling cake scum at this point. wtf is with all the wagon hopping.

PRAISE JEEBUS

pooky ur gonna go into the scumbin if you sheep this literally proven to be a lie Noraa post
*snip*

I keep reading cakez comments that feel like they r just echoing somebody else in the thread and agreeing with them - it's like he's a mirror and not actually pushing something that he's thinking about.

scum have used this exact logic to push me before
*snip*

Cake and Maria are scum together

VOTE: Cake

FLAREON FRIEND ROLLED TOWN REJOICE ~!!!!!

this seems faked

Did I miss anything or was it just these two posts?

Spoiler: Everything about Jingle

Why wouldn't you choose to go after someone who's been a little less contentful (like Clidd/Morning Tweet, for example.)

I don't know how I feel about being left out of {lowpostingexamples} while you included someone who's not actually in this game.

Yo this seems very LAMIST

I already didn't like Jingles opening

*snip*
I was keeping this in my pocket but this wall seems so fake

VOTE: Jingle

Pretty obvious scum tbh. That vote on me is actually like absolute crap. I expect better from jingle.

Jingle is scummy but this OMGUS is shit

Also unwnd and me both agree Jingle has openly tried to pocket people like Cakez (and is doing it successfully)

Honestly, just take a glance at Jingles iso and read it slowly. I have it written another way in my notes but my teammates is funnier so:

'Everything Jingle types looks like a scummy cars saleman trying to sell me a rip off on words alone'

i still think Jingle is scummy

I think I want to stick to the gyp wagon despite my suspicions of jingle and noraa
I have a good feeeling about it

*snip*

*snip*

if Zaiden is indeed scum it is definitely with Jingle I think
*snip*

You're just kind of calling him scummy, no substance.

Spoiler: SS

Currently what I think is that jingle thinks I'm a pr and that's why he's pushing me.

Right, because nothing's easier to mis-exe than a PR.

I think he said to stop crumbing because that's a townie thing to say.
But the fact that he then goes after someone that he apparently thinks crumbed is just weird?

You know, I actually vibe with this reasoning. I would like to see Jingle address this.

why is every post you make a snipey one-liner? :3

Because concision is a virtue.

S_S is making a lot of nothingburger posts like these
where is the content S_S?
*snip*

*snip*

sure but also what are your reads tho?

Check out S_S for me thanks. I haven't been wrong on this read and I'm pretty sure he's a wolf again

Ah jeez S_S has been a hot topic on our team. xtoxm agrees with you

ok S_S is officially in the scum pile thx

Not a lot here either?

Spoiler: Maria

Creature thinks Gamma, Gyp and Maria are suspiciously

Yeah good call on Maria SB
Creature raised some good points against her in our PT
Cheet's desire to sheep her is suspicious

I think it's weird that Maria has been townread by many for seemingly little reason yes

I don't really know what my read on Maria is but at least she's not SRing me for shit reasons is kinda my opinion on it.

Noraa this is such garbage and you know it
even if you are town you need to seriously rework whatever it is you're doing here

Yeah but why go to her immediately?

Townblocking, I'm following my gut on Maria because it's been marginally okay on reading her previously, I think Maria's a good townplayer/was confident about her read and Zaiden was not a townread.

do you TR Maria here now?

Imagine getting called sus cause 2 people townread each other and want to sheep/bounce reads off each other. Wild

this is a nasty mischaracterization

*snip*

It's very amusing to hear that kind of argument since you couldn't get further from my personality if you tried. Anyway it's not like I'm going to be the day 1 fade. I can care less if you TR me or have me at null branch off me to more important matters unless you really find this so pressing.

really hate this post

*snip*

Noticing a pattern here...

Spoiler: gypyx

*snip*

i got 2 of my teammates (petapan & hercule) to ISO gypx for me, and they both came out of it agreeing that he's a slot that warrants more pressure/pushes. petapan thought that he was living up to his scum meta by not appearing to actually gamesolve & by going through the motions

noting this as a reason to keep on Gypyx

*snip*

there's like two votes on you. this is not very good reasoning.
*snip*

*snip*

hey all, sorry for the recent inactivity, i'll be able to catchup soon

no i'm not pulling a Silent Star 3 i swear, got actual life issues lol

pedit : that ain't my scum meta lol

This feels like a town post.

I disagree its null at best
*snip*

None of these reads seem developed at all? Quote anything I missed (from pre-readlist) though.

I said this earlier to SPF but I tend to not overtly explain reads unless someone asks about them. So yeah you can say there's no "substance" but you cannot argue I'm not being clear with why I'm scumreading people.


Oops
Fixed

[SirCakez]

I'm interested in what originally made you null town there and what in the case you specifically found convincing and why you missed it before.

It's what PB noted in his case around the "point of inflection". She started actually putting out some scumhunting and declaring some reads. SB's earlygame was pretty devoid of that (thus why I voted her early on).

[SirCakez]

I have not been trying here tbh so I will try to step up
I will note Gypyx's shift onto me looks awful considering I've been on him most of the game

i was on you since quite some time though, why didn't you point this out before?

I didn't realize. Call it your voteshift then.

[SirCakez]

Cake and Maria are scum together

VOTE: Cake

VOTE: Cakez

i can get behind that

At this point.

[SirCakez]

now that TENET is over I can say I think Gypyx is playing to his scum meta from that game
<3 thanks for playing Gyp

y'know, the reason i was playing like that is cuz that's my actual town meta

You can't just say "my scum game was my town meta" tho
That's not how meta works

thing is, i was really playing as hard as I could to my town playstyle, did you even compared my 2 most recent games?

No I don't read other games that I wasn't in for meta because you just can't get the context of the game as it went on.

^this is towny I think.

at the very least it's a whole-ass mood.

I highly disagree and I think this is kind of an odd assessment of that post. If anything it's pretty scummy because not being able to trace reads makes it sound like Gypyx was faking them.

MURDERSUNNY - null leaning town
Gypyx - null leaning town
noraa - townlean
Zaiden - town
Pink Ball - townlean
Jingle - null
Something_Smart - null
Spring Breeze - scumlean
MariaR - null
PookyTheMagicalBear - townlean
SirCakez - null leaning town
Morning Tweet - townlean
PrivateI - scumlean
Jake The Wolfie scumlean
Gamma Emerald - null
midwaybear - townlean
Cheetory6 - town

Noting this for later.

ye pretty much Jingle
Also - I'm not gonna bash through Murder's case because I don't think it's inaccurate. just a misreading of what I'm doing here.

You should, or I'll continue to believe it and push you

Ok then do that. I'm not gonna write up something I don't believe in.

i don't understand this. is this a serious play at SRing Spring/kanna because they criticized you

It's TMI, not based on Infinity's read of me, and bad fence sitty.

Who is Infinity that people keep referring to?
I can see the fence-sittiness sure.

Maria, what do you think are the odds of cake scum here?

Besides the fact Jingle W means Cakez=T Cakez is still in his town game range on my notepad. He hasn't done one of his obvious tells yet. If that changes you'll know.

Still hate this

I'll hitchhike on this and say I agree and it looks bad for Maria Jingle team.

[SirCakez]

I think Jake's response to the wagon is moreso town knowing his history~

Zaiden's entrance looks town
Gamma needs to get something better then his Jake vote
I think SPF's more recent posts looked better

VOTE: spring breeze

I first voted SB here.

y'all get to see something rare. a sircakez readslist!

town - pink ball, morning tweet, spf
nulltown - spring breeze, jake, midwaybear
null - murdersunny, spring breeze, gamma
???/halp me/ever so slightly edging on scum - noraa, cheet, zaiden
nullscum - pooky, jingle
scum - something_smart, maria, gypyx

Nulltown SB here

So that was between page 10 and 60. So that's fifty pages of SB posting that changed my mind. It's very similar stuff to what PB was pointing at but I didn't read into the intention behind it like he did.

[SirCakez]

@Murder I'll do those things later I'm in class right now.

[SirCakez]

Murder why play on an alt this game?

[SirCakez]

@ SirCakez: Can you elaborate on what you meant in 1607 by "Gypyx is playing to his scum meta" from TENET Mafia in particular?

I'm dropping that point anyways, but at the time I meant Gypyx was playing like he did in Tent (very non-present, not really committing to anything)

Cakes do you rlly have towntells that only Maria or otherwise only a small set of people are aware of?

Apparently???? Maria won't tell me. Cabd has secret scum tells that he claims are how he caught me in Xenoblade 2 but he won't tell me what they were.

[SirCakez]

Ur comparing a 2015 join date to a 2020 one, S_S

I'm not comparing you to anyone. I'm just saying, I could make the accusation that a lot of your posts don't lead anywhere.

I don't think this line of discussion is productive.

[SirCakez]

I townread you in the trials where you were actually pretty stand out compared to the rest of the game. Like i dont think i wavered on that at all and that was in a game with >50% of the playerlist being LHF/not playing

i do not townread you in this game and you're more similar to Royalty although i understand that royalty might not be how you always are as scum. However cakes watching you in Tenet and observing that you are playing similarly gives me the impression that perhaps you are just much more active as town

i think the confusion is that im saying i townread your performance *in that game*, im not townreading you here *because of that game*

Gypyx and Pooky both brought up that their scumplay in Tenet was unusual for them because of the crazy setup and because they were being heavily coached by their scumteam. So I no longer want to use the meta from that games as a point.
Although I do want to keep in mind that I think Gypyx's reaction to bringing it up was not great. Specifically, the point where he said "it was my town meta because I was playing like my town game" is just so bad and illogical.

[SirCakez]

@Cakez, you've answered a few of the questions I'd had. However, I'm not convinced by the 'meta shift' argument because I would have assumed it's in town's best interest to remain consistent with their town meta, especially in something like a team mafia game where more is on the line. Or are you trying to say that your development as a player is completely separate from meta altogether? Although I'm in agreement of Gypyx being a scumread I'm not following your progression for why Gypyx is scum. Could you elaborate on the overlaps between TENET (which I didn't play in) and this game? To the person who said this game is different from TENET - how different and would it disqualify any comparison to this game?

I'm not deliberately trying to shift my meta to obfuscate reads on me. I am just changing as a player in response to how past games have gone for me.
See my previous post for Tenet stuff.

With S_S, I also don't think scum would outright admit 'This is how I would act as scum'. And I don't think scum would readily admit to that or rail so hard against Cakez in such a public way. I'm townleaning S_S here.

Why not?

I highly disagree and I think this is kind of an odd assessment of that post. If anything it's pretty scummy because not being able to trace reads makes it sound like Gypyx was faking them.

It happens to me a lot, because I don't keep notes. The towny part is admitting it instead of just making something up.

Maybe.

wtf is going on rn

Isn't there some kind of wiki thing that says this kind of post is usually from scum?
Either way I'm calling it scummy. Kinda LAMIST in that it's like "oh I'm here and so confused!"
Gamma is sliding towards nullscum.

so why are we talking about it now?

Because Murder wants to gamesolve so that if he's killed tonight he still gets a high score for the event.

Apparently no one else realized there was a survey, despite me literally bringing that up when Cakez and Noraa asked me about how aggressively I was pushing my reads.

I think it's +town equity for murder, given that I don't think scumMurder would think to fake that concern, but I've been tr-ing Murder all day anyway, so...

Jingle is scum but I concur with this assessment of Murder.

GAH I can't shake the feeling that jingle is scum. Something just feels off. Idk what to do about it!
*throws up hands*

You can have a gutread Noraa that's ok.

[SirCakez]

Who is the Infinity that people keep mentioning?

[SirCakez]

@Murder these are some of the posts that provoked my nulltown Spring Breeze read. Where she actually did some scumhunting and nothing pinged me the other way.

i really like spf so far; her deductions have been really good. unless i need to rethink, i think she's just town. agree with the noraa read and jake read.

i got the opposite impression from this exchange - it stood out to me that above all else, cheetory's primary concern was making sure that his reasoning was properly understood. i feel like people playing from a scum mindset are more likely to capitulate to people criticizing their reasoning, but cheetory's main reaction was just to get genuinely frustrated that their reasoning was being misinterperted and misframed.

this type of emotional concern over the particulars of their reasoning is town!indicative, imo. gth i don't think that scum has that level of emotional investment into having their specific reasoning validated

disagree here though, cheetory's posts felt pretty out of place with gypyx's responses. feels like he was putting on a show. disagree about scum not caring enough to be understood as well, everyone wants to be understood, don't they? and scum never want to be caught out for the wrong reasons.

Spring breeze's posting is still pretty scummy

in what way?

On reread they don't look as bad but they look fakeable in light of the bad entrance

not liking this progression
you must've read my posts and something must've pinged you for you to say this. what happened to that? and i'm curious what you think is bad about my opening posts in your own words

@spring

can I get a read on PrivateI from you?

their line on me was the worst thing they posted, but other than that, nullish. i'm curious to see how they'll respond!

VOTE: zaiden i guess i dislike your vote on me the most.

reconsidering cheetory. i like his good faith to me and his haphazard randomness is quite townie. uncrowned also started reading the game and said he felt the same pings on midway early on and that hard push would probably be what he did if he was here.

speaking of midway, i agree with the townreads. i have little meta, but he's a strong PURE read for me. even his latest posts where he says his hot take of gamma town and then voting him 2 posts later. scum... probably don't do that

fairly sure zaiden plays like this regardless of alignment because he's from hectic/hopkirk's team and they're all fun people/it's a team gimmick. it's hard to read though because i feel like it allows him to make weird moves/reads. i have been skimming his posts a little, i'll reread them in a bit

p-edit: what do you mean "you don't want it to happen this early"?

fairly sure cheetory is town now. zaiden, less so, but i'd like to believe he is. not sure what questions he has on me/pooky that are being ignored, i'd be happy to answer them

@zaiden

804 not a fan of jingle's noraa case. very nitpicky > finding things that are scum-indicative, feels like. and it ends with a "Seems pretty obv to me that she's just making shit up to see what sticks." which reads unnecessarily overconfident.

What game was this?

viewtopic.php?f=51&t=84671

If you're looking for scum Noraa meta, Ari pointed me at MafiaSunny for a stronger game and Booneytoonz14 for a weaker game. I would pull up a link, but I'm being lazy atm.

also did not like this, feel like he's using past games to look credible, but i'm not sure what his actual point with noraa is other than she might be good as scum

These are just some examples, I don't want to make a massive wall. But there ya go.

[SirCakez]

You can refer to the team list. Infinity 324.

Ok so they are on SB's team.

[SirCakez]

I think Pooky's read might be a little biased.

i have literally never been wrong on a soul read in 17 years of playing on this site

my read rate on kanna is 100%, my read rate on ydrasse/isis/hectic is 100%.(I mis-read Hectic once as scum when he was town but that was more from paranoia than anything else - I don't miss on townside reads)

I do not miss.

This is I think points more towards SB and Pooky both being scum here.

[SirCakez]

Maria/Jingle/SB/Pooky?
I'm wilding out here.
How do Gypyx and SS fit into this puzzle?

[SirCakez]

And this

I said this earlier to SPF but I tend to not overtly explain reads unless someone asks about them. So yeah you can say there's no "substance" but you cannot argue I'm not being clear with why I'm scumreading people.

Can you sum up each of your scum reads in a single sentence? Not just pointing out things that make them scummy but actually reasoning showing they are scum?

For example, I'm not interested in "Cake switched reads on Kanna and that's scummy" I'm interested in "Cake switched reads on Kanna because they are partners together and he didn't want to push her too hard."

A lot of your statements are like the first sentence and not like the second sentence. Here's what I would say for you:

Cake has too many scum reads because he wants to distance from his partners while trying to push for a miselim and it's being passive instead of actively pushing a case because he wants to see where the wind is blowing before committing to a single wagon.

Maria's play this game is designed to avoid antagonizing anyone while trying to accumulate townreads for her playstyle.
Something_Smart was coasting for most of the game up until I started pushing him recently (at which point I feel the argument we got in pointed to him being scum trying to get me off of him), and during that coasting ~80% of his posts were not progressing any sort of scumhunting and instead seemed like activeposting.
Jingle's posting has a lot of sub-surface scum intention behind it where he is trying to redirect wagons towards certain players that I feel are town and also setting himself up to be clear of blame for when those players flip town.
I am sheeping SPF somewhat on Gypyx but but I also feel he has been rather defensive this game and seems to be playing pretty survivalistically as opposed to putting himself out there on reads.
Pooky's play seems to be way too reliant on friendly xD type posting, buddying, and going along with wagons other people make for him.

[SirCakez]

Maria/Jingle/SB/Pooky?
I'm wilding out here.
How do Gypyx and SS fit into this puzzle?

Do you normally post solves D1. This feels a bit forced

Sometimes? I do it when I feel like it.
Specifically here my scumreads don't fit together so I must be wrong somewhere so I was sort of looking for help.

[SirCakez]

These are just some examples, I don't want to make a massive wall. But there ya go.

Again, I'm looking for some reasoning here. What in these posts seem town indicative to you? What parts can't be faked?

I feel like we're going in circles here. I already said I liked it when Spring Breeze showed up and started scumhunting. I liked how she pried into Cheet and Zaiden at a point where they were being pretty feisty. It would be a dangerous move to make as scum. She took some risks on where she was pushing.

[SirCakez]

I am sheeping SPF somewhat on Gypyx but but I also feel he has been rather defensive this game and seems to be playing pretty survivalistically as opposed to putting himself out there on reads.

Are you sheeping SPF or is Gypyx your strongest SR, as you said earlier?

Why can't it be both?
Like if you made a diagram of my Gypyx scumread sheeping SPF would be 33% but then the other 66% would be the original reasoning on my own that I've pointed out.
I find SPF to be quite town so her approval of Gypyx scum makes me feel more confident.