TM 2021 Large Normal 2: Wikipedia Integer Facts (Over)

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Bottom of page four reads:

hercule
Hopkirk
innocentvillager
OkaPoka

Almost50
AGar (null--he did check in but didn't continue to post)
Winter Flakes (alt of Uncrowned)
Ythan

Titus
Cephrir
Dannflor
Lady Lambdadelta
the worst

jjh927
Dunnstral
DrippingGoofball
Xtoxm

Town Null Scum Candidates Scum?

Standard Mastina Protocol engaged.

VOTE: Hercule

[Lady Lambdadelta]

(It helps Hercule's entrance was garbage, but honestly I was just waiting to Mastina to post one of these lists so I can do my standard Mastina play which is just to eliminate players in inverse order of her preference.)

It wins the game more than it loses the game, and that's a fact.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

her n you have some history?

There is one rule with Mastina's reads.

Take her read list, and start killing from towniest to scumiest in order.

You will win the game before you lose it, almost always. Without fail.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

her n you have some history?

There is one rule with Mastina's reads.

Take her read list, and start killing from towniest to scumiest in order.

You will win the game before you lose it, almost always. Without fail.

To be fair this assumes she is town? Which I suspect she is here, but if she's scum we still end up in a good spot. Just slot Mastina into the middle somewhere and off we go.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

thumb s up i guess you do you

I encourage you to join, though I know you probably won't go for it just based off Mastina being a 0% read magnet.

With that in mind, I point you to Hercule's entrance, which was god awful.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

helloooooooooooooooooooo my friends it feels great to be here. i made a vocaroo reaction to my role pm but implosion said they would prefer for me not to post it so.

i will try to reel in the insufferably lamisty energy i exude but i do just want to express one thought that's fucking funny to me. i kept referring to my team as the 4/4 town gods last game cuz i told them i wanted everyone to embody our full team flipping town and let it seep into everyone's game cuz i was the only one who flipped mafia and i wanted to manifest myself as town. and then IT ACTUALLY HAPPENED lmaooo 4/4 town gods for real. they all got scumflips on d1 so time for us to do the same.

but still fuck ABR

this is the more damning post in my mind. Pre-writing is one thing if you don;t know your alignment, but this post has to have come post alignment knowledge by definition.

And it's fucking attrocious.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

the thing is i can see hercule prewriting his entrance idk if that makes him scum but it makes him a nerd

Like to be clear, I could also see him prewriting that opening post, which admittedly would only be a thing that matters if he did not know his alignment at the time.

But the second post is the more damning one, and is in stark contrast to the first post as feeling far more improvisational, despite referencing an event that occurred before the thread opening.

It is guaranteed to have been done and known post alignment knowledge, which makes it alignment indicative, so we can toss aside concerns of NAI/Neutrality in favour of looking at it with a lens.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

if hercule pre-wrote the entrance post then why did he post it if he's scum? saying he prewrote implies he genuinely believes that scum!him will not post that. if he's scum, he either had a change of heart and went "ehh, i'll post it anyway bc LOL" or he changed it somehow.

you can't just toss it aside and pretend it doesn't exist because he prewrote it.

If he pre-wrote it prior to knowing his alignment, it wouldn't have any tone leakage. If he is scum and chose to post it anyway, it would be for that reason and as a good entry cover to not get early wagoned.

If he's town, he does it because he wanted to post it.

and as both alignments, if he did work on it, he'd like it to see the light of day

so essentially, the first post, if written prior to seeing alignment, is unusable to read him on because even the logic for "why post it as scum" is easily found and also wifom.

Your post here is effectively contentless, because this is a prima facie concept and should be grasped simply. Why did you miss this, and why did you think it was a good idea to challenge in this way? What were you gaining?

Note that the second post is exempt from this above logic BECAUSE IT IS CONFIRMABLE that by this point he has known his alignment, prewritten or NOT.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

IV's response to my Mastina related post combined with their awful semi defense/poke at the pre-write engagement does not look good for them, probably regardless of anyone's alignment, but especially if hercule is scum.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Anyway I'm out for the night, work sucked today and I wanna chill.

More people should vote Hercule.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

of things that could've been prewrote before thread unlock, he could've also definitely had 1 and 2 prewritten, at least 2's ideas could've been pre-thought out and he just had to translate it to words

Even if 2 is pre-written, him sayign "i recorded a audio file of my reaction to my role pm" is confirmable that Hercule knows his alignment at the time of writing it, unless you're suggesting he's lying about that.... which would also make him scummy, so I'm not sure where the objection is.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

okay no more, time to peace

night!

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Honestly can I ever play a game with Mastina where she doesn't scum read me?

Look, you want to kill me? Burden of Proficiency me. Give me one day to decide who dies, and if they flip town, kill me.

But never listen to the worst player in this game who has an actual 0 % read record on me.

The number of town games I have played where Mastina has literally called me scum for every day in them and then oops we're both town

is fucking why I refuse to engage with her and eliminate her reads in reverse, tbh

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Honestly I',m okay with being burden of proficiencied this game

[Lady Lambdadelta]

lady lamb is town

what makes you say so?

they can see my role pm

they hacked the matrix and they're coming for my brains

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Like IV, I was reading the worst as town last game. oh noooeeees

Did you roll scum, the worst?

DGB, what's your read on Hercule?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

and partly wanted to go full transparency on what I was thinking so people town read me because I was having a bad day and irritated about mastina scum reading me

@dann i think it's probably fair to say this is the part that i smelled. there was so much stuff in that post that made me go "so?" like. i don't know if it's because i miss context but i feel like you were just observing rather than actually trying to deduce anything. in other words it feels

p

e

r

f

o

r

m

a

t

i

v

e

.

they said, in rainbow text, missing the irony

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Like IV, I was reading the worst as town last game. oh noooeeees

Did you roll scum, the worst?

DGB, what's your read on Hercule?

Kinda town?

ehhhhhhh

really? pourquoi?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

LLD - I never miss rainbow text irony.

they said, missing the irony

Kappa

[Lady Lambdadelta]

i mean, not two yeets, but two days

I would not mind a second day to figure shit out and then a flip choice.

I'm confident I can find them today. More confident if I have a second day to use.

But I'm willing to do it today if needed.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Oh dude I forgot Agar was in this game

it's been ages

[Lady Lambdadelta]

LLD can be town. I think her case is a little flawed on Hercule, but the thought process tracks given she wasn't in the last game.

The problem with that: in a game with a lot of raw talent skilled at both townplay and scumplay where every scum player (or close to every scum player) is at the top-level of scumplay (or close to), you're not going to catch scum by any "oh, lol, that's scum obviously and clearly and unambiguously". (Even tho I'm in the 90% certainty that LLD and Dann are scum, it is not for things that are obvious/clear/unambiguous; it is for subtle things backed by anecdotal experience.)

In a game with the highest-caliber of players being scum, you're going to catch scum when their viewpoints contain 'little flaws', so to speak, and LLD's case against hercule is exactly that: it is flawed, in a way that, yes, is scum-indicative. The thought process doesn't fully track especially given this is TEAM Mafia. LLD has teammates who could fill her in on what they know of last game, and then there's also the ban announcements for last game for extra context there, and that's beyond the fact that last iteration of the game is a talking point in this game, meaning that checking out last game has some actual value to it.

I've let exactly one person in my decade plus of playing mafia talk to me this way and you're not, never have been, and never will be anywhere close to the player that Glork was, so kindly don't tell me how to play the game. My fucking method works for me just fine. kthxbye.

---

Oh dude I forgot Agar was in this game

it's been ages

Fuckin somethin, innit?

Dann, Agar, what do you two like about xtoxm here?

There was a spot where they were aggressive last game

I mean it's early and they've already posted more than they had until they were run up last time. Also I don't remember them being aggressive? I might've shut parts of that game out of my brain though.

Do you guys think hell is repeating Day 1 of a large over and over again for eternity

Fucking feels like it rn.

How have you been b'y? I won't be like "oh I missed you!" cause we didn't interact much outside mafia, but you were always a good dude from when we did interact and it's always nice to see people I played with a long time ago.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Anyway, since Mastina seems intent on addressing my nature, lemme talk a little bit about who I am.

My name is Lady Lambdadelta and I'm the best scum player in this game, probably the best scum player on this site and probably top 5-10 scum players that have come through this site. Hard to measure a metric against people who are all just as good as I am in small detail, like, I won't sit here and say I'm strictly better than Nuwen. Nuwen was incredible. Different skillset than me, but incredible.

So, getting that out of the way, Mastina is doing me a little bit of a disservice. The scumplay style I pioneered and mastered was very simply the aspect of leveling yourself as town and understanding what you are giving off. So many people think you need to sacrifice your own ability to play the game and hunt scum to appear town and that's just not true. It is possible to level how you appear in your town game, and what's more, constantly change how you play, from aggressive to passive to open info to closed handed as town, never settling in a single meta and always being weird.

And then mirror those different things as scum and do them equally randomly. It sets expectations of how you play as town at "insane" and means you can play with gambits or normal play as scum and look town doing it. The key to it is not changing how you emote. Convincing yourself that you're town in a sense when scum and sounding like you ARE a townie.

So the one thing Mastina is right about is that you shouldn't be going around saying "well LLD sounds townie, her emotions are town" because if you aren't prepared and you don't know me you will end up in a bad spot.

Because I've spent a long time seeing what emoting actions work to drive town reads and what don't. And humans like to think they are special and unique but they aren't, just unique enough to have different arrangements of the same subsets of traits. What will work on one person will work on most others. So if you don't know me, it's worth keeping an eye on me. Do I advertise this in every game I walk into? No. I'd rather not tank my own ability to lead a town and find scum by having to fuckign grandstand about myself every time I play as a warning.

But seeing as I'm given exactly zero choice here, here we are.

But here's where Mastina seems to always fall short, and why her reads on me always fail. Mastina is always two steps behind.

The first step is that I am constantly altering my meta. If I can remember playing a specific way in a specific situaiton, I'm probably not playing that way. So this use of "I've seen that line before as scum!" is likely either false, or worse it's true and I'm cycling back to one of my old styles. Has no bearing on what alignment I am if I am, or if it does it leans usually town because if I'm scum I'm more dilligent than that. But that's self meta hogwash, so let's strike that last part out.

The second step is that I quite literally have Dissociative Identity Disorder. There are 4 personalities of me and they all play mafia.

And we all talk a little different. It's impossible not to. We understand the same principles and make the same moves others would make, generally, because we bounce ideas internally, but it can and HAS affected how people have read me before.

And most of all it really fucks with my meta. Not exactly something I can control, and I've mentioned it on site before. It's... a thing.

So, let me be fucking perfectly clear.

No, you should not blindly have faith in the fact I am town ever.

No, you should not let me go into lylo unchecked and should reevaluate your feelings on me after every game day. Never let apathy sink in with me.

Yes, you should always quesiton why I am still alive.

and yes, I'm better at scum than you are at town with a high degree of certainty.

But none of that means you should ignore your own reads on me, or that you shouldn't trust my ability to read, pressure and create meaninful content for a game.

When I say burden of proficiency me, give me time to show off if I'm scum or not. I mean ltierally let me generate some reads, make a call on who is scum and if my scumreads keep flipping town, oopsies, fucking kill me. I'm not perfect at town, god knows people like Glork and my husband GreyICE and Magna of Illusion were all FAR better town players than I will EVER be.

But I played with the best, learned with the best and I'm fucking scary good when I'm on.

So when I have a feeling, you best help me investigate it. If I've decided to push something, you better fucking get on the train and ride with me.

And if someone tells you I'm scum with 90 percent certainty?

They're either lying or delusional. Because no one reads me that well.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Now that I've addressed rampant fucking egotism and Mastina can't hammer me with "see LLD doesn't want you to know how good she is"

Can we move on and pressure hercule a little more? None of his catch up was at all inspiring, and I'm really curious where people's townreads on the dude come from.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Also if I'm being honest I wasn't overly thrilled with Dann's vote on A50.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

im not seeing any reasons to vote hercule...just repeated assertions that his posts are bad ???
monologuing about yourself isnt a case on hercule

cases are scummy

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I like xtoxm.

I never did finish my skim but I may not.

If LLD is scum, Hercule almost certainly is. I don't see LLD putting down all her credibility on something she doesn't feel will flip scum. If Hercule flips town, LLD's read accuracy will be discounted at best.

Dude.

Titus is making sense and posting reasonable posts that contain correct logic and sound deductive reasoning.

Fuck, you're scum aren't you

[Lady Lambdadelta]

IV, Lamb, Dunn and Dann seem pre townie.

Lamb???

I prefer BlackSheep, but Lamb will do.

Though I suppose ewe wouldn't get that joke.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Post #669 is a scumclaim by LLD.

669 is a Dann post.

What are you smoking, DGB?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Post #669 is a scumclaim by LLD.

669 is a Dann post.

What are you smoking, DGB?

Post #679. I reported it to the mods for game-throwing, that's how bad it is.

uh huh

dgb when did you get bad at mafia

where did the scumputer go

[Lady Lambdadelta]

dgb when did you get bad at mafia

You mean to ask

"how can you sound so dumb and be so goddam good?"

oh I get it, the scumputer has a broken language processor.

that's why you're playing like horseshit.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Titus: let's go ahead and clear LLD since she would never make an early push on town as scum

LLD: yes, yes, correct I would never, despite me just stating that my meta is insane and i change it all the time, you are logical and reasonable

Neither of these posts are what we said though.

well they are. let's read it from hercule's POV, considering I am hercule

If LLD is scum, Hercule almost certainly is.

LLD is town because LLD would never push hercule here as scum

Dude.

Titus is making sense and posting reasonable posts that contain correct logic and sound deductive reasoning.

This makes so much sense! I would never do this!

This is not a town post, kill away.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

never would i think id see radiantcowbells again

(or maybe radiantcowbells is LLD considering join dates xd)

anyways ive been briefed on LLD by math and pooky -> honestly i want to put her as town because the way they describe her scum play makes it sound like its nearly impossible to beat? i know its also bad to do the same thing i did to ceph last game where i townread him because scum him wouldnt get votes idk. maybe i should delegate my LLD read to my teammates so i can preserve some sense of sanity.

w.r.t hercule, yeah technically i have access to your meta thanks to koba but koba is gone now and i was lazy so rather than reading past games id ask koba for descriptors of your meta

as to if i actually scumread you, idk, more uncategorized? i guess? you haven't really fallen into descriptors of either your town or scum meta i guess. weirdly enough they (koba) did want me to BoP you last game maybe i BoP you this game hehe

you should figure out who you really think is scum and maybe we have a BoP war type beat

also have no idea why ducky sheeped me but at the time i was pretty happy and now i am a little confuzzled he followed through

ugh dgb feels so pocket-y but it was pocket-y last game to me asdfdsf

Hey, first and only warning.

Saying shit like the bolded is not okay. I consider it extremely personally offensive and distasteful.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

gth

{innocentvillager}
{mastina}
{OkaPoka}
{Hopkirk, hercule, DGB}
{everyone else???}
{LLD, Dann, A50} sure i will sheep the PoE that has been floating around whatever for now i can't read Dann or LLD whatsoever

I'd also kill this reads list in a heart beat, so I'm happy to so IV today as well, honestly.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

LLD, why are you so focused on petty stuff and you overlook A50's TR on me?

I don't care about you nearly as much as you think I do.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

shine ing stars need to carry me

@lld ok sorry i personally respect RC's play a lot but if there's bad blood that's understandable

Okay, three things.

Firstly, RC is a bad person, and I'd rather not be compared to that.

Secondly, RC isn't all that great at mafia, but that's kind of besides the point.

Thirdly, I've played in games with RC, so saying I'm RC would kind of be implicitly implying I am a cheater, which I take a high amount of offense to.

You get one warning. I don't care if it's a joke. You get one.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

lld are you just going to scumread everyone who disagrees with you? that is the vibe i am getting from you, sorry if it's a misrep.

I literally called Mastina town in the opening posts of this game I made despite her scumreading me and doubled down on that when she went harder onto me.

I also called her bad.

This was pretty public, and yet you make this post.

Also notably, I'm not suddenly calling DGB scum, just bad at this game right now.

So another piece of evidence against this.

Saying "sorry if this is a misrep" doesn't mean you're not intentionally misrepresenting me against easily found evidence that disproves the claim.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Also please note that I called you scum before you voted me. Like... way back.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Saying "sorry if this is a misrep" doesn't mean you're not intentionally misrepresenting me against easily found evidence that disproves the claim.

why do you think i would intentionally misrep you while qualifying that i could be misrepping you while directly asking you to explain yourself? that doesn't really make sense to me and makes me wondering you're just confbiased on me

Because "Never Play Defense" is a common scum strategy, and most people understand that if they make a false but loud claim, even if it's disproved, it will do damage to credibility.

Like you, following up on that post by again, not playing defense and instead of being like "oops I was obviously wrong with my obviously wrong claim, my bad" being like "oh wow you're so confbiased that when I made an obviously wrong claim and you won't let me get away with preempting my own bad claim with a hedging statement that's confbias"

it's more aggressive discredit. It's "playing defense is losing, so I'll keep making wrong, bad and loud statement about my opp in the hopes that people will ignore the rest.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Almost50 can talk to Gamma Emerald to see where I am coming from here, if Gamma remembers.

We're not reading each other's games and we certainly aren't even talking in the team PT (or DC channel). I do harbour some suspicions of LLD (which I could buy independently), but you are now my biggest concern (I think you're the Scum team leader). I mist suspect Hopkirk & Oka Poka though.

My preliminary solve would be: Hopkirk, Winter Flakes, mastina, OkaPoka (not in any particular order)

Thank you for listening, Now I go back to doing my own thing.

I can't believe I'm saying this, but I actually don't hate this. I won't get to scumreading mastina for a while yet, though. I think I have a method of reading her later, or at least it worked once.

Also, the more A50 posts the more I think he's town, and since that read is inconvenient for scum as they would very much like him to be one of their miselims, I plan to sit on it for a bit.

A50 is town this game, speaking as someone who just played with scum A50.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

you scumread me ceph? ):

Okay this can die at literally any time too.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

oh yeah

I scum read Winter Flakes now

This is a bad read. It might not even be wrong, WF might be scum, but it's a bad read in this current town.

This town is a target rich environment. A lot of scummy shit flying back and forth.

And you have, as of so far, voted A50 and called WF scum.

Those are bad reads. They don't contribute to the current game state.

What are your thoughts on Mastina, DGB, Me, IV, Hercule, Titus?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

What are your thoughts on Mastina, DGB, Me, IV, Hercule, Titus?

I town read Mastina and IV

I don't have a read on DGB and Titus

I'm mixed on Hercule

And so you.... what, are voting people like A50 and poking at WF?

Like what i'm hearing from you here is a halfway decent reads list. DGB and Titus being null is a good sign to intellectual honesty, Mastina town is good. IV town is... possibly wrong but acceptable.

You're too high on hercule for my liking, but I can at least understand getting there.

So we have here a understandable reasonable reads list.

And you, a supposed townie with this reads list deciding "yep most of the interaction in this thread is between townies, I need to start pressure on... A50 and WF.

What the fuck possesses you to think that's a good move? If you think all those people are town and shit is wrong, the correct pressure target is someone like Cephrir or Agar or.... Ythan.

Someone sitting kind of pretty not contributing much but being present and accounted for.

Not A50 and WF whose posting has been less than inspired.

I don't get the motivation from you.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

VOTE: the worst

Explain in 200 words or I'm putting my BoP laser into your brain.

Like, next 5 posts by you.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

VOTE: the worst

Explain in 200 words or I'm putting my BoP laser into your brain.

Like, next 5 posts by you.

And yes I'm serious I will death tunnel you this is a scum!cephrir vote and I have instant hairs on the back of my head standing up.

So convince me I'm paranoid.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

What are your thoughts on Mastina, DGB, Me, IV, Hercule, Titus?

I town read Mastina and IV

I don't have a read on DGB and Titus

I'm mixed on Hercule

And so you.... what, are voting people like A50 and poking at WF?

Like what i'm hearing from you here is a halfway decent reads list. DGB and Titus being null is a good sign to intellectual honesty, Mastina town is good. IV town is... possibly wrong but acceptable.

You're too high on hercule for my liking, but I can at least understand getting there.

So we have here a understandable reasonable reads list.

And you, a supposed townie with this reads list deciding "yep most of the interaction in this thread is between townies, I need to start pressure on... A50 and WF.

What the fuck possesses you to think that's a good move? If you think all those people are town and shit is wrong, the correct pressure target is someone like Cephrir or Agar or.... Ythan.

Someone sitting kind of pretty not contributing much but being present and accounted for.

Not A50 and WF whose posting has been less than inspired.

I don't get the motivation from you.

I am voting Hercule

This isn't a great answer. I know you're helping me apply pressure but you're mixed, so you're entertaining new targets.

I'm saying your target selection is quesitonable and I'm curious where it is coming from.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

@LLD my team thinks you might just be scum shitpushing me, can you engage with me a bit as to what you don't like about my posts?

No. Your team can stuff it and you can eat rope.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

@LLD my team thinks you might just be scum shitpushing me, can you engage with me a bit as to what you don't like about my posts?

No. Your team can stuff it and you can eat rope.

now that's what i call good faith scumhunting

It is. You're scum. Why do I need to convince you or your team of anything? Why should I take the time to have a long protracted nonsense conversation where you get to gum up the thread with minutia about how definitely I'm misunderstanding you and you're so town.

You are always going to say you're town.

I think you're scum and I'm not going to change that opinion by arguing it with you. If you're so town, prove it by actually doing something townie.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

VOTE: the worst

Explain in 200 words or I'm putting my BoP laser into your brain.

Like, next 5 posts by you.

i'm quite flattered i get to be BoP'd, though i'm not sure what i've done to make you think my town play is competent

i think he's just been popping in to say nothing interesting, while last game, although i didn't find him charismatic, he was at least trying. also, it's a wagon with votes that isn't you or hercule since neither of those interest me.

When I say BoP laser I mean I need good answers from you or I'm death tunnelling you on my own BoP.

This is not a great answer. Worst is literally gone and again, this is the same shit i was hitting Dann for. You decided you disliked all the current interaction and your best move was to

EMPTY VOTE THE WORST?!?

There was so much to be done with your vote and you decided that was the move? I find it hard to believe town you isn't more convinced on a read by now, whether it's right or wrong

and I fully believe that's the kind of intermediary vote scum you would make to be in a better position here

[Lady Lambdadelta]

@LLD my team thinks you might just be scum shitpushing me, can you engage with me a bit as to what you don't like about my posts?

No. Your team can stuff it and you can eat rope.

now that's what i call good faith scumhunting

It is. You're scum. Why do I need to convince you or your team of anything? Why should I take the time to have a long protracted nonsense conversation where you get to gum up the thread with minutia about how definitely I'm misunderstanding you and you're so town.

You are always going to say you're town.

I think you're scum and I'm not going to change that opinion by arguing it with you. If you're so town, prove it by actually doing something townie.

nah see we're not playing this game. it's clear you have no reason for fosing me (your initial fos was because of your #mastinaplay, and then later you seemed to justify it by just quoting a post of mine and saying it's bad), and so if you aren't going to engage, explain, or otherwise show signs of genuinely sorting my alignment then i'll just park my vote on you and that's that

does anyone reading this find this behavior to be towny from LLD? Open question to the table

This is a bad faith representation of my posting, because I literally voted you because of your opening post and used the Mastina thing as an entry point because it let me fuck with Mastina and also because it's genuinely correct. They were simultaneous. Saying I came up with that FoS "later" is false.

You're welcome to park your vote on me, seeing as you're scum and your vote was already parked there. I don't exactly know what you think this post changed but here's the kicker.

This is now the scummiest reaction you've had all game and it's so bleedingly obvious.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

@LLD my team thinks you might just be scum shitpushing me, can you engage with me a bit as to what you don't like about my posts?

No. Your team can stuff it and you can eat rope.

now that's what i call good faith scumhunting

It is. You're scum. Why do I need to convince you or your team of anything? Why should I take the time to have a long protracted nonsense conversation where you get to gum up the thread with minutia about how definitely I'm misunderstanding you and you're so town.

You are always going to say you're town.

I think you're scum and I'm not going to change that opinion by arguing it with you. If you're so town, prove it by actually doing something townie.

nah see we're not playing this game. it's clear you have no reason for fosing me (your initial fos was because of your #mastinaplay, and then later you seemed to justify it by just quoting a post of mine and saying it's bad), and so if you aren't going to engage, explain, or otherwise show signs of genuinely sorting my alignment then i'll just park my vote on you and that's that

does anyone reading this find this behavior to be towny from LLD? Open question to the table

okay, now this is a post i can properly hate.

what do you hate about it? is this rly what scumhunting on this site is, ppl just quote things and say "oh this post sucks" with no substantiation.

ABHAHAHAAHHAHAHAAHHAHA

Ceph.

CEPH.

He's scum complaining about being caught for the wrong reasons.

It's open now. He's upset not because he's town being pressured, but because he's scum and he doesn't think he should be suspected for what he's done so far.

You can see it right? It's fucking obvious.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

@LLD my team thinks you might just be scum shitpushing me, can you engage with me a bit as to what you don't like about my posts?

No. Your team can stuff it and you can eat rope.

now that's what i call good faith scumhunting

It is. You're scum. Why do I need to convince you or your team of anything? Why should I take the time to have a long protracted nonsense conversation where you get to gum up the thread with minutia about how definitely I'm misunderstanding you and you're so town.

You are always going to say you're town.

I think you're scum and I'm not going to change that opinion by arguing it with you.

If you're so town, prove it by actually doing something townie.

does anyone reading this find this behavior to be towny from LLD? Open question to the table

this type of appeal to the crowd shit is not towny, hercule

I feel like you could be literally doing anything else in this game besides trying to appear the good-faith half of the LLD vs. hercule 1v1 and instead you're trying to do something that I think you should *know* is unproductive

Like you trying to engage LLD here doesn't feel like you actually want to solve her, it feels like you want to show yourself off as towny

Ooh fuck yeah Dann is town I'm locking it in. I wasn't convinced before and was trying to poke and prod but him getting there on the Hercule is not doing townie actions train about the same time I did is a fucking GOOD FEELING.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

ABHAHAHAAHHAHAHAAHHAHA

Ceph.

CEPH.

He's scum complaining about being caught for the wrong reasons.

It's open now. He's upset not because he's town being pressured, but because he's scum and he doesn't think he should be suspected for what he's done so far.

You can see it right? It's fucking obvious.

yeah, i can see it.

i'm also hyper aware that voting him here is what i'd desperately want to do to get your attention off me if i were scum here, and that this post is probably the exact post i would make to try to get away with it.

VOTE: hercule

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

It definitely isn't putting you in the Dann oops all townies pile

but you get points for successfully killing the bad men regardless of how you feel to me, so

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Hmm

I don't like LLD's playstyle but I don't think she's scum here

Hercule looks like town to me, but I should add the caveat that I haven't read the previous incarnation of this game so can't really comment if people are judging based on that


I'm still happy voting the worst

That's cause you're so uptight. Ohh LLD is too aggro my cases and reads!

Loooosen up b'y.

Also the worst is a terrible vote even if you think thye're scum here, you're basically wasting time with a vote sunk there. Pretend your vote is there in spirit regardless and put your vote somewhere else for value.

VALUEEE

[Lady Lambdadelta]

did i say i was going to die on this hill?

you did not, which is yet another wonderful reason to scumread Hercule here.

We have exaggeration, bad reactions, some why me floated in there and some "caught for the wrong reasons" too.

Gosh I love mafia some days.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Well yeah you are way too aggressive

I play as loose as ever nowadays but I think that means something different to me than it does to you

Pish posh no such thing.

"too aggressive"

God what a coward. COWARD I SAY.

Look my man i'm gonna level with you

I'm gonna need a reason why Hercule is town from you after the interaction that just happened. Like you can go read it for yourself. I need some of that good shit.

And I'm gonna need you to remove your bias about how "aggressive" I am in reading it and just focus on Mr. Hercule over here

[Lady Lambdadelta]

No point playing this game if I don't have fun doing it and I don't have fun when people have shouting matches

am I having... a shouting match?

In what way am I having a shouting match

[Lady Lambdadelta]

did i say i was going to die on this hill?

taking LLD's side in this argument is more or less logical suicide fmpov

anyway "does this player fucking suck or are they scum" is my least favorite game to play in mafia so i'm out for now before i legitimately get mad

ahahahahahahahahahahahahahah

I get to have my cake and eat it too now, thanks. I appreciate it. Not only do I get to savour your scum flip, but I also get to savour the frustration you must have in being flipped by me from what I can only assume to you must appear as "no good reasons".

Oooh god that makes my day. Possibly my year.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I don't think Hecule's reaction to being pushed has been great, but I don't see what you do

What do you see, then?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

okay but the way you phrased that whole post sounds like you're trying to set up a dichotomy of "I'm the good-faith player here just trying to understand you LLD and you are the bad-faith player"

like it's very p e r f o r m a t i v e and "does anyone reading this find this behavior to be towny from LLD" is a direct appeal to the crowd that feels more like you're looking for a specific answer than actually trying to get a meta read from anyone

ok well I literally just want input from people, can i get yours?

i feel like i'm being gaslit here: i am trying to find mafia and i'm being accused of not doing anything towny, what else do you expect town to do?

I've played like two games with LLD and she was mafia in both so I don't think anything I say is gonna be based in an amazing meta read

I don't think this approach from her is especially scummy though

I think it's a little odd you haven't considered that maybe she came out of the gate pushing you so hard in order to see what your reaction was. Very generally speaking I'd say it's more likely scum wants concrete reasons to back up their pushes but I wouldn't apply that necessarily to LLD because she's a very good player. But the fact that you're fixed on this, on why LLD pushed you originally feels unproductive and like you should know it would be unproductive.

Like, you haven't commented on much else in this game and as a townie I would expect you to while maybe devoting some attention to LLD, have more thoughts outside of that. Basically, I want to know what you think about literally anything else in this game besides LLD.

I'm suspect of you now not because of anything LLD said originally, but because I think your reaction to pressure here is bad. Like why does it matter that you don't think LLD has good reasoning to be pushing you? Do you think she's scum for it? It almost feels like now you're looking for permission to scum read her for it when you should just do that if you feel like it's scummy.

Oh dude. I love when people say the shit I feel in my heart so eloquently.

JJH, please direct all inqueries vis a vis Hercule scum to this post. I cosign all the things here, basically. and you get the bonus of not needing to interact with my ~~spiky personality~~

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I don't think the actual position he's taking here is AI at all

See, I understand where you're getting this from?

Because I too believe his frustration here is completely real. He is GENUINELY upset and frustrated. That's not fake.

But his frustration and upset here don't mean shit because the frustration is easily explained by him being upset at how I got to my read, likely because it was right.

The fact this player hasn't done anything at all constructive or townie this game along with their bad reactions is multiple reasons to scumread them that don't include their frustration being AI.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

okay but the way you phrased that whole post sounds like you're trying to set up a dichotomy of "I'm the good-faith player here just trying to understand you LLD and you are the bad-faith player"

like it's very p e r f o r m a t i v e and "does anyone reading this find this behavior to be towny from LLD" is a direct appeal to the crowd that feels more like you're looking for a specific answer than actually trying to get a meta read from anyone

ok well I literally just want input from people, can i get yours?

i feel like i'm being gaslit here: i am trying to find mafia and i'm being accused of not doing anything towny, what else do you expect town to do?

I've played like two games with LLD and she was mafia in both so I don't think anything I say is gonna be based in an amazing meta read

I don't think this approach from her is especially scummy though

I think it's a little odd you haven't considered that maybe she came out of the gate pushing you so hard in order to see what your reaction was. Very generally speaking I'd say it's more likely scum wants concrete reasons to back up their pushes but I wouldn't apply that necessarily to LLD because she's a very good player. But the fact that you're fixed on this, on why LLD pushed you originally feels unproductive and like you should know it would be unproductive.

Like, you haven't commented on much else in this game and as a townie I would expect you to while maybe devoting some attention to LLD, have more thoughts outside of that. Basically, I want to know what you think about literally anything else in this game besides LLD.

I'm suspect of you now not because of anything LLD said originally, but because I think your reaction to pressure here is bad. Like why does it matter that you don't think LLD has good reasoning to be pushing you? Do you think she's scum for it? It almost feels like now you're looking for permission to scum read her for it when you should just do that if you feel like it's scummy.

you're post is interesting but isn't hercule literally voting LLD

does that make a difference? look how hercule came to vote me, and how when i refused to interact with him in the way he wanted he then decided his vote was really real only THEN.

Dann's point is valid whether Hercule is voting me or an imaginary friend, but since you're asking, hercule's vote history is not stellar.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

It's a tricky situation if you're town when a thread-dominating player leads a significant wagon on you and you aren't 100% sure if they're scum for doing it

That's been the vibe I got

okay, so you're town this game, which is good.

but there is a difference between town doing that and scum trying to wiggle free.

So I'll ask you this: Do you honestly believe that this player as town asks their team about me, gets the answer "could be scum" and then while ALREADY VOTING ME both

1) attempts to interact with someone who is cross voting them about why they think they are scum

and 2) when told "fuck off you're scum" performatively throws their hands in the air goes woe is me and then reconfirms their vote as SUPER SERIOUS GUYS.

I don't thikn that's how a townie handles that interaciton. I don't think a townie approaches me like that and I don't think if a townie were to be in that spot they respond to my "nope ur scum lul" with that reaction.

Do you?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

One would need an incredible ego to believe there are "wrong" reasons to be caught as scum and elimed in day 1

I mean the dude is literally posting the following things:

1) waffling about whether to call me bad or scum while keeping his vote on me
2) saying I have no reason to call him scum
3) getting very and REALLY upset that I refuse to give him one

The closer he gets to an elimination and the more votes pile on, the more this happens.

Perhaps "wrong" is a misnomer here. The accused is reacting to me having given them less than 0 public reasons for why they are scum, only pointing at posts I don't like and leaving why they are bad as an exercise to the reader.

And that has upset them. and to my mind given their reactions and posting that is far more likely to come from scum who is upset that the game is being decided on these metrics and is posting while mad than it is a townie who is trying to survive.

Like by a very measurable margin

[Lady Lambdadelta]

dannflor you said you wanted to see thoughts about the game outside LLD from me and yet you say Nothing when i ask what you want to know about

Right because we're not going to be the ones to give you free interaction points that you can point to when we THINK YOU ARE SCUM.

Again, if you're townie, you are meant to be doing townie things.

But instead here you are complaining that people voting for you won't give you a layup so you can APPEAR townie.

Because the mentality being approached by hercule, here folks. Is not "townie trying to solve the game"

it's "scum player trying not to look scummy"

[Lady Lambdadelta]

dannflor you said you wanted to see thoughts about the game outside LLD from me and yet you say Nothing when i ask what you want to know about

Right because we're not going to be the ones to give you free interaction points that you can point to when we THINK YOU ARE SCUM.

Again, if you're townie, you are meant to be doing townie things.

But instead here you are complaining that people voting for you won't give you a layup so you can APPEAR townie.

Because the mentality being approached by hercule, here folks. Is not "townie trying to solve the game"

it's "scum player trying not to look scummy"

i mean your behavior ain't exactly "let's try to solve the game" either, you're playing "let's get hercule elimmed"

My position is that doing one accomplishes both.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

folks

Dont you start performing too

when have i ever not been performing

you've known me for so long when have i ever not been performing to convince an audience to beleive the same stuff i do

and either alignment

lol

[Lady Lambdadelta]

dannflor you said you wanted to see thoughts about the game outside LLD from me and yet you say Nothing when i ask what you want to know about

okay it's more I mean I want to see you working on something else than the LLD thing

like who on your wagon is most likely to be scum

is anyone on the sidelines catching your attention?

I feel like these are questions a townie in your position would ask yourself

I'm asking you for like solving I'm not asking for a recount of your reads list

Anyone who thinks this dude is scum can eat my ass. I've never been so mindmelded with a player before. Okay not true, that's an exaggeration.

but seriously these posts are hitting the right notes

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Hmm

I don't like LLD's playstyle but I don't think she's scum here

Hercule looks like town to me, but I should add the caveat that I haven't read the previous incarnation of this game so can't really comment if people are judging based on that


I'm still happy voting the worst

Sometimes a player doesn't like another's playstyle, goes overboard trying to remain unbiased, and calls them town.

hey DGB if I'm scum here I'm definitely bussing for town cred so I can eliminate you tomorrow.

Come help me bus Hercule.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

DGB honestly this seems optimal for you right?

cause if hercule is town you get to kill me tomorrow

and if hercule is scum, you flip a scum player and i'm too high profile to live on that cred forever

so you should come help me bus hercule obv

[Lady Lambdadelta]

folks

Dont you start performing too

when have i ever not been performing

you've known me for so long when have i ever not been performing to convince an audience to beleive the same stuff i do

and either alignment

lol

Fair, but somehow it doesn't annoy me when you do it

she has no style
she has no grace
this bird has a funny face

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Get into the sack, LLD!!!!

I played quarterback in high school.

I'm very experienced at avoiding the sack.

Also I'm town so, not gonna happen tbh

[Lady Lambdadelta]

ok so im just not gonna quote and code to save time bc I despise mobile posting for the most part

so Hercules opening to me is more often than not a slight +town. it feels sincere in the sense that there's a high chance he gets called out on it down the road and elimmed if he ends up playing similarly to the scum meta he laid out. Along with this, I do find it reasonable to assume hes being truthful that he's not the type of player comfortable with outing his meta and then being forced to change it drastically for an entire game.

if you want to ignore the opening and consider is NAI that's fine. But later on when we get to his engagement with LLD, I do see someone who is attempting a good faith engagement with a slot that seems tunnelled on them. Like he almost seems in disbelief that he's being approached in this way and that people are going along with the wagon.

he doesnt seem desperate to defend himself, but instead more just annoyed at the fact he's being engaged in a manner where he can't "get a word in" so to speak.

couple that with him having a lot of instances of what I'd classify as "stream of consciousness" posting and I'd say im relatively confident he's town this game

hmm

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Like you were showing off your thought process rather than actually having a thought process.

so how do you differentiate between these two? I think it's hard to make that call off of one post without the context of a grander trajectory over the course of a game

This I don't agree with.

It's pretty clear to me the difference between fabricating a thought process to try and generate a specific reaction from others vs. following a thought process to attempt to decipher the reactions.

I think it was pretty clear the motivation of hercule was to try and dismantle his wagon, but he was doing it while voting me, at me. He has me as scum, so why is he trying to convince me he's town? what is the point of that operation?

I think the logical extension is that they are someone who wants to be seen doing a thign that townies are meant to do: engaging, sharing points, making "Content" and through that escape his wagon by losing pressure from medium voters.

But not doing something an actual townie would do. I think that picking the interaction with me doesn't serve a townie purpose. They're not reevaluating me. They're not going to convince me if indeed they really think I am scum. So what are they doing?

It's for the benefit of others to see. And when I denied them that interaction point, they were kind of taken aback and you can easily see that. So they went for option 2, doubling down on me.

Which went more poorly. And if the intent was to get reads on others... and convince others they are town

they would have backed off, abandoned me, and went to do that.

but they didn't. It was ALWAYS about getting that interaction with me. And that's the point Dann and I are making. They were not doing townie motivation style actions, they were doing actions with the intent of LOOKING like a townie.

If you think wanting to look like a townie in that position in that way is town, I'm not going to say it's impossible for town to do that or want to do that

but I think it comes much more likely from scum.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

oh I was referring to dann saying my post was fabricated or performs time

oh, hmm

well my post still has kind of where I'm coming from tho

so if you can tell me why you think i'm wrong about Hercule wrt that, could help?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

@lld no I see your point and I hadn't factored in that Hercule was voting you back which yeah implies he thinks you're scummy

I do think there's a genuine aspect of frustration at the way you're approaching him but when considering that he's counter voting you, I do think it lessens the towniness of that.

I think the dismantling the wagon point is also a decent one as I got that vibe when Hercule reached out to Ceph I think it was saying it was bad to follow your. It takes away from some of that "lack of survivalism" i was citing in my defense of him

I still hesitate to change the read because I do sort of get a fluid vibe from him where his real time interactions come off quite strongly to me?
do you think this is just a by-product of his posting style or do you think even tonally he reads scummy?

I think you know that I think he's scum, and I know you're asking this because you're fishing for more interaction here to process it yourself, but the truth is I don't really give a damn about his last game or how he sounded there. He looks scummy HERE. I think he seems tonally scummy here. If you want to do the research and examine your own bias, I think that's reasonable, but I don't put stock in meta, especially in a game where a player can be coached by 3 other players if needed.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

But you were being bussed, which is something different than a block of scum voting together on a townie

I can see herc as either town who is being pushed for not much and him having trouble in the game because he has to argue against that

OR I can see him as scum who feels caught for the wrong reasons, as pointed out by Dann and Cephrir and LLD around page 33+

I don't think their reaction is towny, at least. What I thought was towny was mostly a tone read and got town apart back to null in the next few pages, and I remember that I shifted to townreading him as the game went on last time. It seems like a fine vote to me

Thank fucking god you're town.

This is literally where I'm at right now and I'm loathe to talk much about it because the minute I stop doing the charismatic confidence bit, the hercule wagon will dissipate?

and I'm right now more certain than not he's scum... but there is a voice in the back of my head whispering bad thoughts to me, and it's talking a lot about the way the 2 wagons have progressed today, people's stances, and what makes sense for scum to do if we were both town.

Can you vibe at me wrt to that topic?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Also I want to be clear that I'm doing something I've basically never done before and being transparent with my process a bit here

Which feels really fucking vulnerable and bad, so I'm really hoping that it pays off and either cures my paranoia or refocuses me in a correct path if needed.

lol

[Lady Lambdadelta]

But you were being bussed, which is something different than a block of scum voting together on a townie

I can see herc as either town who is being pushed for not much and him having trouble in the game because he has to argue against that

OR I can see him as scum who feels caught for the wrong reasons, as pointed out by Dann and Cephrir and LLD around page 33+

I don't think their reaction is towny, at least. What I thought was towny was mostly a tone read and got town apart back to null in the next few pages, and I remember that I shifted to townreading him as the game went on last time. It seems like a fine vote to me

Thank fucking god you're town.

This is literally where I'm at right now and I'm loathe to talk much about it because the minute I stop doing the charismatic confidence bit, the hercule wagon will dissipate?

and I'm right now more certain than not he's scum... but there is a voice in the back of my head whispering bad thoughts to me, and it's talking a lot about the way the 2 wagons have progressed today, people's stances, and what makes sense for scum to do if we were both town.

Can you vibe at me wrt to that topic?

Also I want to be clear that I'm doing something I've basically never done before and being transparent with my process a bit here

Which feels really fucking vulnerable and bad, so I'm really hoping that it pays off and either cures my paranoia or refocuses me in a correct path if needed.

lol

Yeah, which wagon are you talking about, the worst or yourself?

Hercule.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Mastina, you're a literally anchor on any game you play and you make mafia unfun.

I've gotten to the point where I want to just give up for my own self meta so when I flip town here if I ever have the displeasure of playing with you, I can quote posts from this game until you drown.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Like genuinely if you are town you have succeeded at nothing but making a townie want to die and hope that town loses this game.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Also RC is a bad person and I'll say it loud and I'll say it anywhere and I don't give a fuck who cares.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

If I agree to die here, can I trust this town to kill people in order I ask until you hit a townie?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Answer is probably no, which means to play to my win condition I have to actually fucking try and live

in a game with mastina being the standard anchor she is

greaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Dunn if you're around I want to dismantle my own wagon I think, but I need to talk to someone who I have the remotest sense of trust in to decide whether my paranoia is legitimate or not.

It also doesn't hurt my team is in my ear about all of this too so.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

my own wagon emaning the one on hercule, not the wagon on me, to be clear

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Surely, some of bickering players are scum.

But I keep coming back to all the resistance for a rainbow road, sparkling blue sky LLD wagon.

LLD is an extremely valuable scumpal. No scum in their right mind would sacrifice such a blessed partner to bulldoze a town.

And theres a handful of players that are against it in a stubborn way saying she'd too difficult to put on the saddle to ride the elimination mule out of town to the dead thread. Much like ABR was against the xtoxm wagon.

Hey DGB are you willing to bet your life I'm scum?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Also we can't let Mastina be this wrong and live to lylo? Just FYI?

Like you guys do need to actually kill her at some point.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

MASTINA

HE

HAS

3

COACHES

AND

3

SCUM

BUDDIES

WHO

ALL

KNOW

ABOUT

LAST

GAME

TOO.

THAT

META

IS

ABUSEABLE.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

like holy fuck your whole argument is literally "but last game" at literally every post and all you seem capable of dooing


ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

fuck this game i'm out for a while

[Lady Lambdadelta]

mastina's trajectory on titus is:
--titus is scum for posting she's vla
--this one interaction could be s/s with LLD (who, notably, has not flipped yet)
--"80% confidence"
really, that's it, i just checked to make sure i wasn't crazy

Yes that would be due to me not having explained my scumread on Titus.
Titus isn't scum for posting she's V/LA; Titus isn't scum for the interaction with LLD (tho that contributes); Titus is indeed scum with 80+% confidence, but why she's scum is something I haven't explained yet.

I just could tell instantly.

Trash.

Not talking about the post, btw.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Honestly, I'm gonna take a few days to not hate this game and half the people in it and come back with hopefully a less angry mindset.

If I'm dead by then, I really don't care.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

It's honestly hilarious. I leave and the argument switches to LLD is lurking to let her scumbuddies bail her out!

Ignoring the fact that makes zero sense and has a much worse chance of saving my life, and if I do die would make all my scumbuddies in worse positions.

So just bad logic all around.

But even ignoring that, the best part about it is that it's post facto logic. There is no longer an attempt to actually read my actions, and then decide my alignment.

They're trying to take my actions and force them into an allignment.

Which is why the "the wagon is stalllinggggg" argument is being made, because while it is now technically true because people are starting to come around on me being town, it is also a functionally bad argument because it says nothing about my alignment ESPECIALLY when I got to 8/10 needed votes to eliminate basically on thin air.

So, to summize, there are players pushing my wagon based on thin air, using post facto logic and bad reasonsings.

Not all of them can be scum, but the ones who are blindly saying stuff like "it has to be LLD today" "LLD gives the most info" are definitely runnign behind the mass idiocy that got us here.

I do not think all of DGB/Xtom/Hercule can be town. I'm not sure if there's more than 1 scum in it but I think they can't all be town this game.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

perhaps a little
but i do feel like lld red flip would strongly imply the wagon parkers are town cus i dont think scum would be wanting to bus her
if its green i need to shake up my game view
this is why shes a good gamestate flip

This is a desperation argument btw.

Scum don't want the LLD flip to slip through their fingers, because when I flip green it's not really gonna be Xtom people look at it'll be hercule, dgb, mastina, IV.

VOTE: Xtoxm

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Like, there is not a much scummier post in this game than the one where Xtoxm wrote about 500 words on why Dunnstral was scum, more words than they had ever said about me or my alignment at the time

and ended the post with I STILL WANNA VOTE LLD in all bold.

Because it Xtoxm doesn't actually have reads, they have positions. Their positons are informed by a win condition, not a read generation, and it's very obvious, at least to me, that the generation of poitns they are making now is trhowing shit at the wall to see what sticks.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

mm, okay response. huge activity spike. probably nai.

The implication that I never say "I like x" as town is wrong

I did it in Tenet, I did it in the last run of this of this setup

the tell itself is not absolute - there are some instances of him doing it as town - but they are much rarer. people may cheery pick these to refute our case

misrepping me like this isn't going to help me trust you. there are no instances of it in v1. there's one post where you quote me say "i dont like this read"..but that doesn't

really

match what we've been looking for.
the claim isn't that you don't provide insight as scum (you do as both aligns), or that you never make empty posts as town..its that it happens

more often

as scum.

i don't really wanna get bogged down on the meta stuff tho. it's supplementary.
i'll reassess the read if im given reasons to.

Like who the fuck is reading this post and going "yep this is a town post"

It's defensive and covering the whole way through. It's dismissive to the core. "I don't wanna get bogged down..." "It's supplementary..." "I'll reasssess if I need to...."

Like, then what is the purpose of the post? If it holds no merit, if you don't wanna get bogged down in it and you will only reassess if you feel there's a good "Reason" to, why make the post?

because it's performative, because it's intended to suppress and talk over and defend against something.

It's not town. This is now how townies approach this kind of thing.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

LLD, I don't really think it's xtoxm this game. I don't know if you're into meta but I felt like I had something on them last game and they were run up and forced to claim; this game they've went beyond that. I don't really agree with their positions but they feels a lot more natural and have more to offer this time

Read what I've said and talk to me about why you think it can come from town, and if I concede to you even a little bit, I'll back down.

But I need more than "meta from last game" to do that, because it's just not a good argument.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Like I admit that I'm coming back from a mental health break from this game, so I'm not nearly as immersed as I'd like to be.

So I have a possibly outcome of latching onto the first bad posting I see and striking at it?

So it is in the name of that possible bias that I'm willing to hear you out.... but only if you can actually convince me.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

is LLD a purely poe thing

No, it's a purely bullshit thing.

Because think about the inverse argument, right? Do you think this player is going to suddenly say "ah if LLD flips town, we should kill xtoxm, dgb, mastina"?

No. They think those slots are hard town. So the argument is bad from its onset. They are arguing "if we're all town, that would make LLD scum more likely, right?"

when in truth, in a game this size, the odds that 3 townies can be wrong or misled by other factors is much higher than being presented.

Now note that they are possibly not all townies, too, but this logical conclusion they are trying to sell you is a one way conclusion and false from its very premise.

Because if you think I'm town, Oka, which I think you do, should we eliminate Mastina/Xtoxm/DGB in order on that principle?

Or based on their own play?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

The only odds that increase for me to be scum if those 3 are all town is the fact that there are 3 less townies in the pool on literal odds drawing.

Not more, not less.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

@lld xtoxm argument is a bop related one

@xtoxm im just going to leave this out here again, you are going to need to eventually come around to scumcasing lld otherwise i won't even know why i would be voting lld other than im scared and that sounds like a silly idea
even if u negate every single one of my lld is town points, you still have to connect the dot to lld being scum otherwise /shrug
we live in a society

right but you shoudn't trust the reads of any of those people. Like, maybe DGB on a good day but the scumputer is either scum or has a bad malfunction so.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

fmpov the reasons why you guys are voting lld pls correct me if im mistaken

-she is good at scum
-townreads on her are undeserved
-she's mean
-she hasn't died yet

the third choice is so far the most convincing point anyways good night i might not be here for the next 24 hours

I'm mean? oof, so harsh

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I'm honestly kind of checked out of this game, so I'll try and get back into it but

It's really not been fun trying to argue against people whose best argument is "I'm right" and have no substantiation or ability to back it up.

So... yeah

[Lady Lambdadelta]

That said I think Oka might be scum.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

show me why lld is scum other than she has an incredible scumrange and could be doing all of this because at least on mastina's end, i feel like a lot of her arguments are: well lld scum could do x,y,z

My argument isn't that LLD could do this as scum--it's that town-LLD wouldn't be doing what she's done and that scum-LLD would.

is LLD a purely poe thing

LLD is a combination of PoE, Burden of Proficiency on her (which she herself said to use!), ~wagonomics~, and this being her scumgame.

They are arguing "if we're all town, that would make LLD scum more likely, right?" when in truth, in a game this size, the odds that 3 townies can be wrong or misled by other factors is much higher than being presented.

There's a problem with that:

Look, you want to kill me? Burden of Proficiency me. Give me one day to decide who dies, and if they flip town, kill me.

Honestly I',m okay with being burden of proficiencied this game

I mean ltierally let me generate some reads, make a call on who is scum and if my scumreads keep flipping town, oopsies, fucking kill me.

You yourself said to burden of proficiency you.

So if your biggest pushes, on hercule and now Xtoxm, are on town, then by your own statement of being burden of proficiency'd...we're burden of proficiencying you.

So why are you trying to shift the argument into being "LLD's chances of being scum go up with three townies flipping just due to there being less townies", when you yourself said to BoP you on the townies you push flipping town?

Okay, actually Mastina might be scum too.

I have been assuming Mastina is just being bad, but....

She's arguing at a player who isn't there and saying, and I quote

That I said to BoP me... and she is doing that by killing me before anything flips.

Mastina is not so stupid she doesn't know that's fucking ass backwards.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

she's also not so stupid as to say that if Xtoxm, DGB and her all flip town, 2 of those who I called town for a lot of this game and refused to wagon (DGB, Mastina)

that THAT is somehow burden of proficency.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Actually yeah, fuck this shit, Mastina's scum. She's finally reached across the line from bad points that are nonsensical but I can believe she believes are true to bad points that are nonsensical and I do not think she can reasonably believe.

Vote: Mastina

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Like I want people who are townreading Mastina and townreading me to go look at Mastina's posts on me.

And see whether you think she is saying things she could reasonably believe. She's not. There's just no way she makes posts that are this detatched from reality on a basic factual level.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

LLD's primary contribution to the game was the hercule wagon; unless hercule is scum, in which case I'd say it's fairly clear scum would not have been sitting back to this based on the current outcome, a towny who loudly tunnels on another towny, and who talks about getting BOPed on that, is not likely to be a significant threat to scum in this game. This is team mafia; we have no shortage of high tier players, players with egos, players with reputations, or any combination of these you feel like.

My biggest contribution was a wagon that I myself killed by stopping pushing it because I became less certain it would hit scum.

I could have rammed it to death and it probably would have died if I kept going, but I hesitated and stopped. Why do you think that is?

We got a lot of decent information from how people placed their votes around that wagon. It'll be good later in the game to look at.

I was doing my job to create information and reads this game until I lost all passion for arguing with lunatics who think I'm scum because I'm scum so I must be scum.

What have you done this game? Sit your vote on a player who had 2 votes for 3/4ths fo the game, say nothign and complain people weren't following you.

Get off your high horse, you jerk.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Like incase it isn't increasingly obvious, I don't really want to deal with another 100 pages of Mastina walls and having to respond to them all, so here's the thing.

If someone wants to talk to me about their scum reads and shit, I'll do that.

If someoen wants tot alk to me about the way Mastina has been playing and their read on her, I'll do that.

And if people want me to agree to die if Mastina is town, I'll do that.

Hell, if we can get 10 people in this game who will agree to kill mastina after I'm dead if I flip town, I'll do that too.

I'm down for any outcome that results in both Mastina and I dead, though obviously I prefer the one where we kill her and she flips scum and I get shot by scum tonight.

That's my favourite of those "we both die" outcomes.

So, please, anyone who wants to talk about those outcomes and work with me to achieve them, I'm in. Give me anything to do except respond to the senseless Mastina wall posts that will be coming soon.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Anyway that's my everything for today I'm gonna go watch the super bowl.

I will try and check in daily.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I’m up to page 61. I’ll try and finish my catch-up today.

I'm not sure what we needed from you was to read the

entire

game but it's commendable

---

LLD I haven't been agreeing with your reads recently

Then explain why I'm wrong and I'll shift, but you've yet to really do that.

Or I'm disconnected and haven't seen it, in which case quote you doing that for me.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

If someone wants to talk to me about their scum reads and shit, I'll do that.

in recognition of the fact that you may not be around tomorrow one way or another, i'd be interested in your thoughts on some of the lower content slots like agar, the worst, ythan, titus. i currently feel there's probably multiple scum in that group, but if you're seeing some legit towniness there and you flip town that's something that i'd legitimately still care about tomorrow. if you're scum i don't plan to mine your response for associatives i'll be a lot more interested in how others acted around you & your wagon than what you posted in that case tbh.

i'd also be interested in what you think of dgb. i'm guessing it won't be that it's scum with mastina, since that seems hella brazen. but that's asking for a bit more work, so like, whatever you wanna get into, i'm listening. i get that this game probably isn't very fun for you either way.

Agar town

Ythan... ehhhhhh

Titus probably town

nothing on the worst, sorry, read their replacement instead

[Lady Lambdadelta]

halftime gonna end so

ciao

[Lady Lambdadelta]

She's arguing at a player who isn't there and saying, and I quote
That I said to BoP me... and she is doing that by killing me before anything flips. Mastina is not so stupid she doesn't know that's fucking ass backwards.

I made a perfectly valid point that you're now attempting to side-step. Here's a series of events:

Look, you want to kill me? Burden of Proficiency me. Give me one day to decide who dies, and if they flip town, kill me.

Honestly I',m okay with being burden of proficiencied this game

I mean ltierally let me generate some reads, make a call on who is scum and if my scumreads keep flipping town, oopsies, fucking kill me.

You say to burden of proficiency you.

VOTE: Hercule

You strongly push hercule.

I do not think all of DGB/Xtom/Hercule can be town. I'm not sure if there's more than 1 scum in it but I think they can't all be town this game.

You say that {DGB, Xtoxm, hercule} cannot be all town.

VOTE: Xtoxm

You vote Xtoxm.

question from auro:
were {dgb, xtoxm, hercule} to be all revealed as town, would this say anything about lld's alignment?

Xtoxm askes if DGB, Xtoxm, and hercule, the group you said could not be all town, was revealed as all town, what it'd say about your alignment.

No. They think those slots are hard town. So the argument is bad from its onset. They are arguing "if we're all town, that would make LLD scum more likely, right?"

when in truth, in a game this size, the odds that 3 townies can be wrong or misled by other factors is much higher than being presented.

Now note that they are possibly not all townies, too, but this logical conclusion they are trying to sell you is a one way conclusion and false from its very premise.

The only odds that increase for me to be scum if those 3 are all town is the fact that there are 3 less townies in the pool on literal odds drawing. Not more, not less.

And then you attempt to shift the argument to being, "if those three flip scum, it increases the odds I'm scum only because there's less town players alive".

Ignoring the previous, that you had asked to be burden of proficiency'd, and that you said Xtoxm/DGB/hercule cannot all be town. So if Xtoxm/DGB/hercule were all revealed to be town after you said they weren't, and after you said to burden of proficiency you...it would significantly increase the odds that you're scum.

Basically, you're trying to rewrite history here.

Please someone look at the bolded.

Mastina is literally saying, that when I say "if those 3 flip town" I am implying I think they are all not town.

...............

Go on, I want every person to parse that statement she just made against the evidence and come to their own conlcusion.

No skipping this one. No ignoring it.

You either agree with Mastina's logic or you start telling me why you are agreeing with her despite it being LITERAL MADE UP GARBAGE.

I want answers.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Dunn, you're not going to threaten me into going after compromise votes that I don't really believe in by telling me "oh I'll vote you instead".

Fucking fade me, bud. It's your job to read me, I'm showing you everything I have as a townie, all cards on the table.

If you wanna tank your town cred, you can fade me and see what happens to you in 2 days in this town.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Aside: Dunnstrall: Seems different, more communicative. Can't put a finger on an agenda though, so just null.

if you're thinking about a game like Newbie 2017 yeah best throw out all your Dunn meta out the window. Apparently he has games that he tries in (like this one) and games he doesn't really invest in (like Newbie 2017) for whatever reason

my teammate Gypyx thinks Dunnstral is town so im laying off him for now but i still find it kind of hard to read high-effort Dunnstral

Oh hey, time to do something team Mafia exclusive.

Gypyx is on your team? Freshly has come off a game where we were both scum and I coached the dude to hell.

I want Gypyx's read on me, and words from them about why they have generated that read (and also words about why they have a read on DUNNSTRAL and not ME after that game).

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Also what is our deadline and why is it not increased by having The Worst and Hercule both replacing?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

VOTE: ythan
VOTE: dgb
VOTE: titus

Maybe. How is Ythan different from last game/ will they ever be readable?
Why do so many people townread dgb?

ythan cared about something last game

You're right

Ythan, do you have reads?

Ythan
Dun
Cephrir
Luca
Jjh
Mastina
Winter
Dan
Hopkirk
Titus
Xtoxm
Drip
Innocent
AGar
Almost
Lady
Oka

Something like that. Many adjacent positions are somewhat equivalent especially toward the middle.

Worst I'm unclear on, I have plans to settle that slot into the list somewhere some time since it's relevant.

this is kind of a spicy readslist? at the very least if he's faking, it's probably almost all his own intentional fake content and not recycled material/coached

i don't know if i like Oka's Ythan push, seems kind of weirdly fixated on the fact that Ythan intentionally "lied" about trolling last game and I don't really see scum motivation to do that

IV, answer this please.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

About DGB, Dunn.

I am having misgivings because something in my brain is saying "you've seen this before and killed her for it and she was town" and I know it doesn't mean she's town here but I'm having hesitance in going all in on bashing her bad play.
I'
Cause I know if I say shit like "her pushes are bad, she has post facto logic, she doesn't susbstantiate anything even after days of interactions, she focuses only on pot shots and on me and not using my wagon to develop other strong reads, she makes bullshit flimsy reads lists...."

like, those are all good reasons to kill DGB. I just don't know if they make her scum and it concerns me that my instincts are saying "hesitate"

[Lady Lambdadelta]

[snip]
I can't read the auro through xtom filter, unless it's a 1 to 1 translation a lot is probably being lost. Is it against the rules to copy paste team discussion?

dogshit take
you cant read the 80% of my posts that arent auro either?
this is scum posting bullshit to fill out a lackluster reads post
you have one of the most active and supportive teams, and this is the sum total of their comments in 90 pages?
nah dude
you're scum

Um... not what was said by even a mile?

How many times you think you've had to say this this game?

This is my problem, I think. This is my issue with this game. We can't just have people who decide that playign mafia with a 2nd grader's reading comprehension skills is too much for them to do.

It's constantly people who are misrepresenting points in big long posts and when called on it make more big long posts

and then people rushing to their defense being like "they're doing misreps, but is it really scum?"

I'm gonna quote a favourite person of mine on this topic.

They might not be mafia, but they're definitely scum. - SpyreX

I'm starting to just lean towards "kill all the baddies, let the mod sort them out" too.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Which I know is a little dissonant from the above post talking about my hesitance on DGB's bad play, but it's just where I've been coming from. Massive hesitance.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I wish I could throw this game and start day one again

I swear to fucking Christ...

fake

Homie we went 145 pages without a flip, restarted and now we're approaching Page 100 again. I dunno about you but this is definitively Not Fun for me at this point.

Who do you want to kill most, 3 names

[Lady Lambdadelta]

if LLD is town I think there’s a good chance some scum are TMI-TRing her and that kind of lead to some Cephrir/AGar pocket equity (oh look, of the 4 low content slots LLD was asked to give thoughts on, she townread Titus and AGar and both of them called LLD town at that point)

circumstantial ikik

brb gonna spend all my energy pocketing someone who's going to be dead today

deep value

I am going to be dead today?

Really?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Ceph if you are town, you would be aiming to kill anything but me today

And i have noticed you really are kind of chill with me dying and frankly?

Feels like you kind if want it to happen without blood on your hands.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Like I am getting the "working against me in a game of survivor but doesn't want to be the counter vote" feeling from you Ceph.

And it isn't good.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

LLD I have :thoughts: on Ceph that disagree with what your view is, and I think it's due to Not Being You. But I think Ceph is town.

I don't plan on killing Ceph today, but I do want to see Ceph fight for me if they are town here tho

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Then ignore the narrative and let's join together as a town block and compromise on a vote.

I'm done being picky I think. Ythan is a good vote to pressure him into revealing more. I think DGB is okay but I have misgivings. I thibk Luca is not making Hercule look better.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Okay, I agree with you. I also hit burn out BADLY.

See how I left the thread?

But we can form a block to force this game back on a good path.

So work with me. I will start caring again.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Tell you what.

I like the Ythan wagon.

vote:ythan

Ceph, Agar, Dann: join me for now. Let's run him up and see what happens.

Game needs fresh info, new wagons and discussion. Let's make it happen.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Then ignore the narrative and let's join together as a town block and compromise on a vote.

I'm done being picky I think. Ythan is a good vote to pressure him into revealing more. I think DGB is okay but I have misgivings. I thibk Luca is not making Hercule look better.

come to ythan, for now at least? i'd still vote dgb but that seems more controversial. i could also do like titus i guess but i don't feel super passionate about it. i think winter flakes (alt of uncrowned) is a tomorrow problem.

Came to same conclusion.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Okay, I agree with you. I also hit burn out BADLY.

See how I left the thread?

But we can form a block to force this game back on a good path.

So work with me. I will start caring again.

how do you feel about agar

This is Agar town. I promise you.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

LLD, who would be in your block? I'm kinda demotivated too. I feel like I have my reads for today and I would settle for anyone null or below.

Dunn
Dann
Ceph
Agar

Off the top of my head those ones. Let me think for a sec about others, but those are strongest.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

A50 town probably but hard to work with.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I don't know if I can call Titus town, but if Titus is willing yo sheep and vote with me, she can have a townie card.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Oh yeh JJh probably town just impossible to work with so

Lol

[Lady Lambdadelta]

if Flanndor is scum im going to be so upset i have been nodding at his posts in general but on these last couple pages specifically they just strike the heart

If you agree with Dann this much

Would you vote Ythan right now

[Lady Lambdadelta]

@LLD on the thing with you/Mastina that you asked everyone to comment on

Mastina is literally saying, that when I say "if those 3 flip town" I am implying I think they are all not town.

Isn't Mastina basically saying 'if LLD's reads are wrong then the chance of her being scum go up'? I can see where Mastina is coming from based on that premise.
is this what you've got a problem with, or are you interpreting it different?
also Mastina am i interpreting you right here?

ah, isn't it great when you ask 'can everyone give their thoughts on this' and more than 1 person does. never happens for me. grrrr Agar

I wish I could throw this game and start day one again

I swear to fucking Christ...

fake

Yeah that is what Mastina is saying but she is also saying I said that about her dgb and xtoxm at that time.

Which is not what I said, or what was being said.

The argument they made was, literally:

"You town read DGB Xtoxm and Mastina. If those 3 are town and all think LLD is scum, does it increase odds of LLD scum"

Withiut any flips

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I am also trying the "LLD cares about this game" thing one more time.

So let's see if I can make shit happen again.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Hopkirk is still scum.

But.

I'm so tired. And I'm not townreading Ythan.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Ythan

I am not ignoring this or you.

I am saying it is time to end vanity wagons and consolidate for the sake of pressure and new content.

You can also still sell me on hopkirk now too, for later. Tell me now that I am here and give a shit

[Lady Lambdadelta]

if Flanndor is scum im going to be so upset i have been nodding at his posts in general but on these last couple pages specifically they just strike the heart

If you agree with Dann this much

Would you vote Ythan right now

as ive said i will sheep it if i can't think of good reasoning for any alternatives i prefer

my vote is spiritually on Ythan even though i prefer Dannflor's other scum!candidate, Titus

i mean, the best "case" ive seen on Ythan is that he's downplaying how much he tried in the previous game? some people are calling it lying? and lying is scummy so ythan == scum?? i don't have any reason to townread him either

if anyone on the Ythan wagon wants it for anything other than just a compromise elimination to reset and try again tomorrow, id be curious. my biggest fear is that Ythan will flip town with little information about the wagonees, someone helpful like Dannflor will be the NK and we will be in an objectively worse spot tomorrow

For now, I would like if you voted Ythan.

Votes are pressure. The bigger the wagon gets the more people need to respond to it.

Vanity wagons are ending. We might not end the day on Ythan, but for now if you think Ythan isn't townie, let us consolidate there for a moment.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

A50 town probably but hard to work with.

Why would you assume I'm hard to work with when you have 4 of my top 5 TRs as your top 4 too?

Experience from trying to work with you as scum last game.

Then again, maybe that was a language barrier. I heard that you're French first language? I can speak to you in french if you want to discuss the game more fluidly, lol

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I'm not scumreading ythan

They're not much above null but still, I don't want to compromise there

Where

will

you compromise?

Like people keep saying they don't love this but then offer no other options and sit on their vanity wagons. Like fuck, I'd love to yeet Hopkirk into the sun but that's clearly not happening to day and we're less than 3 days until deadline. If you don't love the wagon, whatever, but offer somewhere to coalition.

More incredible Agar posting.

Dunn, I'd like to know your answer to this question.

Cause you won't vote Mastina, Xtoxm, Ythan. And you aren't really pushing DGB that heavily.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Fine, fuck it.

Vote:DGB

I don't agree that Ythan looks townie, but I'm at a point where is the majority of [Dunn, Dann, Ceph, Agar] are voting somewhere, I'm just going to vote there.

I feel like I have reads, and they're half decent, but I can't sell anyone on anything today, so I'm in full "sheep my townreads and compromise" mode.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Hey guys, quick question:

IF someone says "hey, BoP me, kill the thing I want to kill and if it's town, fade me"

and they go "no we'll kill you instead you're scum"

and then all your pushes die and no one wants to do them

so you finally compromise on a vote you're not sold on but appears to be the only consolidation people will accept that day.

Is calling that a BoP bad faith?

More importantly, if it's not, at what point do the arguments that people are making finally stop being "oh they really believe this they're just dumb and wrong"

and become bad faith?

How many times can a player like Mastina and Xtoxm be corrected on an obviously false statement, only for them to get away with it because "oh they're town don't worry about it"

People have been complaining in this thread all day about how people push me without any real reason, and all given reasons are shot down.

And yet you will never finally say "oh hey these pushes might be in bad faith"

why? Like how many times do they need to say things that are obviously and patently false like "LLD is pushing DGB" and then make clearly bad faith inferences like "we should BoP LLD if DGB flips town" before we start asking if the inferences and statements are being made by scum?

I want an actual fucking answer.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Every time Mastina posts, she becomes more like an adult in Charlie Brown

Womp womp womp will pop

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Fucking phone

What an auto correct

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I could hyper wagon IV if 10 people agreed to it, otherwise if you think I'm town, you need to be voting DGB.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Cause IV's end of day posting is bad

[Lady Lambdadelta]

i think we should decide if dgb/lld should claim or not

I'll make it simple for you, I have no intention of claiming.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

even if you get to L-1 and intent?

Homie, we're 20 hours from deadline, a claim is a waste at this point. If you wanted claims you should've pushed for consolidation like a week ago.

IV is scum probably

[Lady Lambdadelta]

anyone wanna bet on the odds on a scumflip today?

i say 10-20%

Why are we not killing this?

This is cheeky scumfuckery.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Titus, you think I'm town, I'm not claiming for the purposes of not allowing free info to come out in worse case scenario. Nothing I claim will change my outcome, so don't pretend voting me because I won't claim is a standing.

If you think I'm town, vote DGB.

Agar, I think we've found each other as town, so you should vote DGB.

A50, you have experience with me from last game, you've argued as such, you see me as town, you should vote DGB.

I'm just going to keep listing people who have claimed townreads on me and so should be protecting me today.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Also, let's see what Luca Blight and Winter Flakes do when the vote is made 9-8, yeah?

Luca replaced Hercule and called me town a bunch.

Also, IV sitting here calling me town but sitting on my wagon, wonder why?

Make the vote 9-8 and force Luca and WF to show their hands and make a decision.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

lol I'm increasingly unsure Luca is town but that'll have to wait until tomorrow

WHAT?

HUH?

YOU MEAN THE HERCULE SLOT WAS SCUMMY BEFORE AND ITS REPLACEMENT HASN'T SHOWN MUCH BETTER?

WELL GOSH

Look I'm still shaken on my read on that slot because of the ay today went down but I had fucking reasons for reading it as scum, and they didn't just go poof.