Amnesiac Mafia: The Movie! That's a Wrap!

[Thestatusquo]

Because I think town is generally way more likely to react like this and feel real while doing so than scum is and I don't have any specific experience with FA to suggest they are a special case. You can call that a generality but that is how I scum hunt.

My impression is that Frozen Angel starts reacting in a more emotionally-charged way when she feels like someone isn't engaging with her how she wants them to engage with her. I think she does this as either alignment.

Ok but I play a lot by tone and I think there is usually a marked difference in tone between how town expresses emotion and how scum does.

[Thestatusquo]

By far the thing I don't like in the whole thing is that it doesn't feel to me like klick is interested in hearing me in any way and is much more interested in shutting me down.

[Thestatusquo]

No I think tabling it is fine. I'm still digesting too.

[Thestatusquo]

I think you have blue snakelet way too high can you talk to me about that one.

[Thestatusquo]

It kind of feels like you're putting the bar on the floor, there.

I would say mostly they've lurked and avoided the thread and I don't like those posts like you do.

[Thestatusquo]

I think scum!Blue handles my slot completely different than he has, coming off of our recent newbie game. The last thing I would expect him to do is try to pocket me here and I think it's much more likely that he just tries to avoid me alltogether

I think its very hard to discern what exactly snake is trying to do given that he has like 30 posts less than the slot that has site flaked and most of them came extremely early on.

[Thestatusquo]

Black, Koba is taking over your slot from now on. They're asking about your read on FB

a fate worse than death.

[Thestatusquo]

I owe kuribo a response too.

Do you still need more time about who the scum are on DE's wagon or?

I'm working, I have time for brief pop ins but not to write a dedicated post.

I'm bowling tonight so earliest I can get to it would be like 11-12 central.

I was hoping you'd just forget and I could do it tomorrow tbh.

[Thestatusquo]

I've come to the conclusion that TM's pissing contests this year are my punishment from the mafia gods for fifteen years worth of making everyone else sit through my pissing contests

Anyway I'm gonna post a full reads list tonight

This feels kinda dismissive of the 1v1. I don't think any part of that exchange involved who's better and I think I brought up some valid points here

What are your thoughts on PB?

It's not dismissive at all and it's more a commentary of several other pissing contests I'm currently having to read through so that I'm up to date on the games of my teammates

I lean town on PB; I have more thoughts about the slot and about your interactions with it but it'll have to wait until the patients are in bed

Just as a point of order i don't think you can offer commentary on your teammates games in this way. It's vague but it's still not allowed i don't think.

[Thestatusquo]

@TSQ: Forgive me if you've addressed this and I've missed it, but:

You've tried to sell me on DragonEater as town. If he's town then someone on his wagon must be scum, right? At least one, if not several? Who's the scum on his wagon and why?

You've also asserted that you think it would be "too on-the-nose" for scumdragon to say, "Oh, right, I should have questioned that, lemme put in appearances right now." Keeping in mind that if he's scum he may be receiving coaching from 4 or 5 (or even 6 but for fucks sake let's not get back into setup spec) people, (Team Mafia teammates + a scumteam) does that change your opinion? Jeez, that's way too many parentheses for one sentence, lemme go find me an editor on fiverr or something. Okay, but anyway, what I'm asking you is if you feel that he WOULD be encouraged to try and paint someone as scum among the "hey thanks for townreading me everyone!" group. And yes, I know you go so far as to say "Well, find me one example of it ever happening," but I think that's an easy thing to say when you know as well as I do that there have been hundreds of hundreds of newbies pass through this site and a couple of thousand games at this point, and ain't nobody combing through all of that to find it. I'd be willing to bet that it almost certainly has happened on at least a couple of occasions. You could just as easily say things like "Show me one example of scum counter-claiming masons with their own buddy," or "Show me one example of a townie claiming to be a mason with a random player." I've seen both of those things happen. (Okay fine, in both cases DGB and I were the catalysts but I digress) The situation I'm proposing with Dragon is FAR more plausible than either of those situations that absolutely occurred.

You can't really argue that it would be "too on the nose" to do that for a newbie because while that may be your intuition, people do not always take the best course of action, nor do they always act rationally. Was he coached to respond the way he did? Did he just do it without realizing it was on the nose? Was he just not thinking at all because he panicked? I read you as town, Shea (mostly anyway, your playstyle is another that I struggle with getting a read on), and while I value your opinion here, I simply think you're incorrect and I find it hard to believe that you haven't considered the alternative that... y'know, maybe he just didn't realize how "on the nose" it would be.

I don't think I agree with your premise.

Two things I generally think:

1) Wagonomics is mostly crap. I simply do not think scum coordinate on votes to the extent that many people who do VCA think they do. At the very least, its not something I really do as scum and I don't think it's been a big part of any scum PT I've ever been in. This isn't super relevant to your question but its just background info about what I think about arguments like this. I just don't tend to find methods like this useful for finding scum. I think town tends to vote in a way that looks like scum if you squint or even if you don't squint a lot of the time and scum don't tend to "drive wagons" in the way people accuse them of doing. In fact I think if there is any truth to voting pattern analysis at all its that scum tend to not like to clump together, but that do sometimes. All of this is to say that, again, I don't find looking at votes in this manner to be a particularly accurate tool for finding scum.

2) Given that, there's too many people disagreeing with me about dragon for me to think that everyone fighting to lim them is scum, and in fact I'm open to the possibility that none of you are. I don't see any particular reason why scum would have to be on this wagon. I think a more interesting version of this question is why is dragoneater getting so much pressure when other slots that I view as very similar to him seem to be getting almost none. (GIF, BlueSnakelet) If dragoneater ever flips town and slots like those flip red then I would be much more interested in finding scum who were looking at one of the low content/low effort slots and ignoring the other ones or town reading the other ones, but I don't think I have enough information to assume that's what's going on here.

Re coaching:

No, I just don't see it. Is that how you would coach someone? In order for it to be some response that I would be worried was coached I would have to think its the kind of thing that experienced scum would tell him to do. And...I just don't think it is? If I were coaching that slot I would probably tell him to just ignore it, personally, and try to look like he was scum hunting. Its the early game, things don't have real consequences in the same way they do later, things blow over. Maybe I would suggest to later on look like you were interested in peoples town reads on you. All of that aside the response did (and still does) just feel completely genuine to me. I think if there were coaching happening it would be less organic and less idk...pure feeling to me. I'm having a hard time putting it into words exactly but the impression I got from that exchange was dragon legitimately read what I said and thought "wow, that's a neat idea! I never would have thought of that!" and just went about immediately doing it. It just didn't feel fake at all to me. It legitimately felt like he was thanking me for showing him a novel way to scum hunt. I also don't think its coaching because I don't think its really all that predictable that I would react this way to it. In order for me to think its coaching I would have to think there would be some tangible goal that he was being coached towards, but I struggle to see why scum coaches would think I would town read this action. I don't think that was at all predictable, and given that most people seem to disagree with me about this I think that point becomes quite a bit stronger. I don't think its clear at all that someone would expect that action to elicit a town read.

The reason I'm saying its on the nose does not rely on him "realizing" that it has to do with decades of experience in playing this game and seeing new scum react to pressure. I recognize that you also have long experience in this game but I have just simply never seen scum, especially new scum, react in the way you're describing. I have however seen a lot of new town react to being told they ought to do something by thinking "hey thats a good idea" and then doing it.

[Thestatusquo]

bro use the vote tags lmao

Code: Select all

[vote]shea[/vote]
[v]shea[/v]

It's so much nicer lol.

[Thestatusquo]

I miss the old Titus, straight from the Go Titus
Chop up the soul Titus, set on her goals Titus
I hate the new Titus, the no post blues Titus
The not here mood Titus, not making feuds Titus
I miss the sweet Titus, give scum the heat Titus.

[Thestatusquo]

It's really interesting to me that the pressure is now shifting to black once I stopped actively pressuring the slot.

I know I'm still voting there but I don't really think the PB interaction was that bad and I thought the isodive was pretty good.

[Thestatusquo]

also I find STDs interaction with the whole thing kind of weird.

They pop in and say its scummy which adds to the thread pressure on black without committing to it at all and then we get the latest readlist in which black is still number one townie.

Clearly you didnt find it THAT scummy then?

[Thestatusquo]

In the PB interaction specifically. The thing I just referenced with STD is an example of what I see.

[Thestatusquo]

Maybe pressure shifting is the wrong word but I definitely disagree that people thought PB comes out of it looking worse (which is btw I a pretty weird way for town to look at an interaction??????)

It seemed to me that the general feeling of the thread was that you looked scummy and PBs invocation of FB and Koba was kind of weird.

Which is why I wanted to push back on it.

[Thestatusquo]

Ok do people not think drixxs posts can easily come from scum

Do you think drixxs frustration with you felt fake? Especially around here:

Drixx out of curiosity what are you trying to accomplish?

I know that std is trying to accomplish. He's trying to annoy you, and he's succeeding.

But your motives in this little exchange are a mystery to me. I don't think you actually believe you're going to get more out of std than this.

Suppose I'm roped today or killed tonight and then you know for sure I'm town. How does STD look then? Town should never refuse to explain reads because in any future where their alignment is confirmed, their thought process is on display to help their team.

At the moment there's also nothing else to engage with sadly.

Also ... I'm not annoyed, I promise.

I'm interested because you described your posting style earlier as like...pretty calculated. Every post you make has a purpose, or whatever you said.

And I guess I can see the purpose you're describing here as one you might legitimately have.

But if that is indeed your purpose I don't think it's going to work.

I also think you're being a bit uncharitable because I think STD has explained himself wrt his read on you. You don't find that explanation satisfactory I understand but it seems like you're trying to map a playstyle onto STD that he simply does not have and in doing so you're talking past him in a way that doesn't seem likely to gain information about his alignment.

I guess I think its more likely than not that you are genuine in what you're doing right now but if you are I think you'd be better served finding a different tree to bark up. Or at least buy a ladder.

I get that you'll probably say that its scum being frustrated with you righteously scum reading them or whatever but I think if you were observing your interactions from another player instead of as your own posting you would feel differently.

[Thestatusquo]

I feel like I acknowledged that at the end there.

[Thestatusquo]

I just get the vibe that both of you are trying to sort the other expecting them to use the same tools as you use and getting frustrated that the other isn't.

And vibes I guess. Thinking about it now I think I see some similarities to your push on psyche in that awful FB game we played but thats ex post facto.

[Thestatusquo]

Oh I thought you asked why I tr you. LMAO. Reading bad.

[Thestatusquo]

And fair enough, I think you're wrong tho.

[Thestatusquo]

is it kuribo. I won't tell him.

[Thestatusquo]

I am pretty sure that scum reading me is always a viable thing to do first because of my playstyle and second because I'm not prone to OMGUS.

Also dreading reading that pink ball post :/

[Thestatusquo]

On the other hand I'm very hard to miselim so scum usually scum read me and then back off of it.

[Thestatusquo]

I think there's very little spam in this game. It's mostly content. I don't know that I can point you to any specific "important parts."

[Thestatusquo]

this exchange almost feels like theatre to be honest.

[Thestatusquo]

Shea I expect better from you

ffs neither of you seem to give a damn what the other is saying except to then turn around and paint it in the worst possible light.

[Thestatusquo]

I agree and I think it would be nice if everyone took a step back and remembered that we're playing a game. :/

[Thestatusquo]

Also not for nothing but I'm pretty sure thats an ineffective method of training your dog and will only teach them that you're cruel and unpredictable.

So don't actually do that to any dogs pls

[Thestatusquo]

What do you make of my and kuribos interaction about dragoneater?

[Thestatusquo]

VOTE: gif

[Thestatusquo]

So. Cerb finally had some time to chat and we talked about setup and what needs to be done. He and I agree on the following. If you disagree or think an assumption is wrong, please feel free to correct it. Attempts to prevent the general plan from going into effect will be met with extreme *Side Eye*.

Starting with Day 2, everyone must claim the ability they had the previous day, what they did/whom they targeted, and the result. The main advantages of this are:

1.) Everyone will have a different role/ability already, so scum won't gain any targeting advantage or know how to eliminate whatever they most fear
2.) We can co-ordinate usage since we'll gain knowledge on the setup, and the owners of various powers can stay anon
3.) Scum will be forced to make fake action claims and explain them every day

In order to avoid giving scum the opportunity to dodge claiming and to provide opportunities for their claims to go awry on them, I suggest a random claim order that changes each day. I'm happy to go first every single day as the one proposing this.

I'm still chewing on this mentally, but I think in general this is the way.

I'm not the mech guy.

But I'll ask my team what they think about this and also @pb if you could ask jingle his thoughts i would be much obliged. I'll do pretty much anything jingle says is right mech wise.

[Thestatusquo]

I'm kind of struggling to find scum reads this game which probably means I need to reevaluate a lot.

[Thestatusquo]

I'm ok with a Drixx wagon

VOTE: Drixx

I'll get around to everything else later

I'm so shocked. Of course, you and STD are pretty associatively linked already so I guess I'm less than "So shocked"?

this claim feels like a new one? Can you tell me what links black and std in your mind?

[Thestatusquo]

This day needs to end.
Not only it would help me to actually catch up, the general vibe I’m feeling is that y’all need to see a flip. I’ll at least look around the Dragon wagin at some point soon (no guarantee on that being today cos today is my birthday) before the day ends.

what happened on all the previous days? were those also your birthday?

[Thestatusquo]

I'm thinking of something that GL said to me in house of dragon about Dwlee. (for context for people who weren't in that game that is the game where I daykilled someone in order to not let a lim on what I viewed as a low hanging fruit slot go through and the person I daykilled was town and the person I was protecting was scum. Oops.)

He said that his approach is to think of everyone as people who have shown him things that make him think they're townie and the bottom of that list is the PoE for him and frequently does contain low hanging fruit but he thinks that those people do tend to be greater than rand chance of being scum.

It's different from how I approach scum hunting generally but in a game where most of the active slots have done things that feel townie to me I'm thinking maybe its a good approach here. Usually I fight against LHF slots as scum is that its pretty easy to argue and I do it as town because I think that frequently scum does pressure them as easy wagons.

But the reason I voted GIF is that he has done nothing to show me he's town at all. He's barely done anything to show me he's in the game. And the pop ins that he's made are way worse than anything STD has noted about drixx so I'm surprised that STD isn't interested in looking there at all.

Which is all to say GIF maybe you shouldn't want to end the day yet because if I'm picking a slot to remove from this game if we were to just end the day it would be you so if you could do anything at all to show me you're town that would be cool.

I don't want to be an asshole to you on your birthday but can you DO something?

[Thestatusquo]

I understand this. I would be sympathetic to light content. I'm not super sympathetic to NOTHING though.

This game has also been going for 6 days. He was moving for all of them? The whole time? No moments at all to look at the game and make even the most cursory contributions?

Blue snake is also on my list. I am willing to do blue snake as a compromise.

[Thestatusquo]

i could probably do GIF tbh too if i think about it but i'd rather wait for more. have the same feeling with kuribo

See I am also suspicious of kuribo but that is what I would expect a genuine low time slot to look like if they are town. They're not here much but when they are they seem to be trying to me.

I have some issues with where they're sniffing and how much they seem to be paying attention to other parts of the game but they have done SOME things that make me think they're town.

[Thestatusquo]

I'll fight to the death for Ircher, we're not doing Ircher

Kind of scary comment from someone who is having medical issues. O.O

Please do not fight to the literal death.

[Thestatusquo]

I am interested in why because to me I didn't love snakes content while he was here and he had like 20 posts and I struggle to see what Ircher has done that is readable at all.

This is a curiosity poke, please help me see what you're seeing.

[Thestatusquo]

O...k....

[Thestatusquo]

Pink StD Shea (if you're not there), let's make GiF a thing.

My vote is already there. Why isn't yours?

[Thestatusquo]

This failure to know who titus is voting is also flirting.

[Thestatusquo]

As was my titus themed rendition of "I miss the old Kanye" which no one commented on and I am still extremely upset by that.

[Thestatusquo]

I miss the old Titus, straight from the Go Titus
Chop up the soul Titus, set on her goals Titus
I hate the new Titus, the no post blues Titus
The not here mood Titus, not making feuds Titus
I miss the sweet Titus, give scum the heat Titus.

[Thestatusquo]

The Squad Bumbles Around Aimlessly Trying To Convince Each Other To Do What They're Already Doing

Wherein no one on the GIF wagon knows who else is on the GIF wagon.

[Thestatusquo]

STD was the mod of my first newbie game iirc.

That was in 2006.

[Thestatusquo]

Conveniently when I said that I started being wagoned too

This is dissonant. The people voting you are not the people who were on the dragoneater wagon besides maybe titus? I have been the biggest defender against a dragon elim by a country mile.

[Thestatusquo]

- The correct mech play is to massclaim on D2 and that, unlike a normal smalltown or persistent pr game, standard op for claims/elimination of claims is correct (I asked him what he meant about the smalltown thing and said that you would understand)

I know what he is talking about but that does not mean I understand. Those are different brain processes.

[Thestatusquo]

Why are you saying that the dragon wagon is scum driven without knowledge of the discussion that happened around it though? I have a hard time seeing how you could possibly have an opinion of the composition of that wagon without being aware that I was the primary person trying to defuse it?

[Thestatusquo]

Why do you think it stalled?

Too many town reads on the slot, many of which I don't even know why, yours included. All you said early on was "pocketed". I'd never heard that term before, and until someone explained the term much later, I had no clue what it meant. Shea explained he was reluctant to pick low hanging fruit, but seems to entertain other such options. Why not this one? If there is more to it, I don't know. I think Black also called him town.

Other players are not paying attention, doing their own things.

I already explained in depth why. It's because not all low hanging fruit is the same. Some have done things which ping me for towniness, and despite being LHF in terms of post count dragon strongly pinged me as town.

This seems like a disingenuous argument. I don't think you can possibly really think that its a mystery why I would prefer one slot over the other.

[Thestatusquo]

Thinking about things, I think only info roles claim. I don't see good coming from docs claiming tmo.

I think half measures make it way too easy for scum to hide, which defeats the whole purpose of the exercise.

[Thestatusquo]

I already explained in depth why. It's because not all low hanging fruit is the same. Some have done things which ping me for towniness, and despite being LHF in terms of post count Dragon strongly pinged me as town.

You mean this?

It legitimately felt like he was thanking me for showing him a novel way to scum hunt.

I just don't see how this could give you such a strong town ping.

You literally cut that out of like a 3 paragraph post. What the fuck.

[Thestatusquo]

In this case we want them to come make fake claims every single day. They have to give fake results (which I can attest FOR SURE) can get them caught. They have to justify their faked targets and reasons.

But most of all, I have a role that I know will make it likely that scum fake claims will be able to be hard countered and get them caught. I only have that role today/tonight tho ... every day someone else is gonna have it. And I think it's reasonable to assume there are MORE roles which have this upside. Literally a bunch of land mines for scum when they have to come make their fake claims.

That part is why I was suggesting a different order of claims daily because I wanted to force scum to at some point have to come fake claim super early and be liable to be caught out.

Take note of who is trying to shut this down because only one team in this game has incentive to try and stop this happening.

I think you're probably overestimating how easy it for scum to play around stuff like this but also I don't think I really see the harm in it and if its Jingle approved it probably can't be bad.

[Thestatusquo]

Your confidence seems to be outstripping your evidence by a lot to me.

[Thestatusquo]

You literally cut that out of like a 3 paragraph post. What the fuck.

Four paragraphs. But this was literally the only reference in all of it to something Dragon had done.

Do you believe in tone reading at all?

[Thestatusquo]

Like if an obvtown is being the leading wagon (at the time), what first impression do you get when you first see it?

Its the confidence of "I looked at 4 posts and insta town binned them" that I am having a problem with.

[Thestatusquo]

Statistically if you lock town someone at random you will be right most of the time.

[Thestatusquo]

Now that I simply don't believe. You might believe it but I'm pretty sure there's some selective memory going on there.

But more to the point, it doesn't then explain the causal link between "I think this slot is town" to "the people pressuring this slot are scum" in any meaningful way.

[Thestatusquo]

Now that I simply don't believe. You might believe it but I'm pretty sure there's some selective memory going on there.

But more to the point, it doesn't then explain the causal link between "I think this slot is town" to "the people pressuring this slot are scum" in any meaningful way.

?

“I think Dragon is obvtown”
“Obvtown Dragon is being wagoned”
“Because Dragon is obvtown the push on him can’t be pure”
“There must be scum somewhere”

Is this really that difficult to see

Obvtown to you is not obvtown to others. Since your read is based off of basically nothing how can you expect others to necessarily have the same read???

[Thestatusquo]

It's the confidence of "I looked at 4 posts and insta town binned them" that I am having a problem with.

Your interaction with Dragon did not last any longer than that. It was one post, followed by Dragon going to look at Klick.

And you'll see in my interaction with kuribo that i agree that the people pressuring dragon could all be town.

[Thestatusquo]

I'm not really sure what there is to fish for in this setup exactly but I am willing to give you space and then hammer you on it on like d3 if nothing ever comes from this.

[Thestatusquo]

I think its kind of reasonable to be skeptical of some sort of role based reason to go to bat for a lurk slot in a game where the mechanics seem to preclude such things today.

But I don't know why we need to scream about it and try to resolve it right this instant.

[Thestatusquo]

Klick kind of feels all over the place to me but I think I still prefer GIF. His answers to me have felt uninspiring.

[Thestatusquo]

Ok!
The feeling is mutual fwiw

this feels super reactionary in a way that strikes me as weird, though.

[Thestatusquo]

Ok!
The feeling is mutual fwiw

this feels super reactionary in a way that strikes me as weird, though.

I was hoping for slightly more engagement than vote followed by 'just kind of a feeling' but I was considering doing basically that in the other direction before Pink Ball's DragonEater case

ok but like this is why it feels reactionary because I feel like you should have expected exactly the response std gave you. That's kinda just what STD does. It's been a consistent theme in THIS GAME even.

[Thestatusquo]

Bella thinks you're really scummy Fen

why is this just being mentioned now? Why are you voting dragoneater instead? Like...recently?

[Thestatusquo]

I missed the end of your comment and I assume that "pink balls case" is the answer to my question of why you're voting eater but not the why are we just hearing about this scum read now. Is it recent?

[Thestatusquo]

Ok!
The feeling is mutual fwiw

this feels super reactionary in a way that strikes me as weird, though.

I was hoping for slightly more engagement than vote followed by 'just kind of a feeling' but I was considering doing basically that in the other direction before Pink Ball's DragonEater case

ok but like this is why it feels reactionary because I feel like you should have expected exactly the response std gave you. That's kinda just what STD does. It's been a consistent theme in THIS GAME even.

That doesn't mean I don't want more?
Like the thing I'm feeling from STD is a sense of reservation
I feel like I normally get a number of things from STD that I feel are genuine and match up really well with a sensible town thought process

And what I feel like I'm getting here is just kind of a cheap imitation of that
Idk if it means he's scum but it makes it hard to townread him like I want to

this is...not responsive to what I'm saying, in a way that feels kind of slimy.

I thought it was pretty clear that we're talking about STDs response to you asking him to talk to you about why he voted you.

in that context I was saying that its weird for you to expect more from STD than "vibes" when that is precisely how I would expect STD to answer the question you asked him like 90% of the time and I think you should also know that.

In this answer it feels like you're shifting the conversation to wanting more from STDs play IN GENERAL which was not what we were talking about, at least I thought it was pretty clear that wasn't what I was talking about.

It feels like you're trying to make my statement seem more unreasonable than it is? When I think the statement "its weird for you to say you expect more out of STD than vibes when you ask him about a vote" is completely reasonable.

[Thestatusquo]

Titus
DragonEater70
Dunnstral
Firebringer
Frozen Angel

Black
BlueSnakelet
Drixx
Thestatusquo

kuribo
Save The Dragons
Feysal

GuyInFreezer
Pink Ball

Pink Ball + GIF + probably one misclear?

What happened here to reduce DragonEater to voteable status?

we also had gif in the solve and then when there's a wagon on gif klick is nowhere to be found and votes the counter.

[Thestatusquo]

DE avoiding the game, and Titus up in here running cover.

What would your worldview look like if DE flipped town?

[Thestatusquo]

I don't really just want to let GIF off the hook is the thing. He actually started posting a bit of content when pressured.

[Thestatusquo]

DE avoiding the game, and Titus up in here running cover.

What would your worldview look like if DE flipped town?

Evaluate everyone who took a hard stance on way or the other. Scum have been known to white knight for town slots for later cred, so it's not necessarily a world where if DE flipped green, the people counterwagoning get to be clear.

Thinking about this answer a bit I don't like it.

It's kind of like I asked you for directions to somewhere and you responded "go google it."

Like yes all of this is true in a vacuum but clearly I wanted more than this, like what you THOUGHTS are about WHO fits what roles in that general pattern.

[Thestatusquo]

I've noticed a pattern this game where you keep trying to like...idk minimize the things I'm saying? And it's annoying me and also making me feel like you're trying to subtly derail my solving or at least stop people from listening to me. So you're probably picking up on that feeling from me. It's super contributing to me not being able to find you if you're town. And if you are town it makes me wonder if you just don't respect me very much as a player? That's insecurity but these are the thoughts that have been popping into my head every time I've interacted with you.

[Thestatusquo]

I ask questions about small things because the small places are where people usually make mistakes. I thought that your statement about STD was maybe setting him up to fail because I honestly can't think of a reason you would expect more than "idk man vibes bad" from him. It felt like a reaction test where you were trying to provoke a reaction that you knew would come.

Thats why I was hyper focused in that specific spot. It matters to me what people do in the micro moments, that's where most of the game is played

@titus it was responding to klicks post directly before it, as is this.

[Thestatusquo]

The wagon on him has literally already accomplished something.

[Thestatusquo]

it absolutely has though?

[Thestatusquo]

I don't really just want to let GIF off the hook is the thing. He actually started posting a bit of content when pressured.

It wasn't significant and we'd get much better from him later

I have quite a bit of respect for GIF's perspective as well

this also feels like minimizing me and to be honest coming directly after my last post to you it feels deliberate at this point?

[Thestatusquo]

I ask questions about small things because the small places are where people usually make mistakes. I thought that your statement about STD was maybe setting him up to fail because I honestly can't think of a reason you would expect more than "idk man vibes bad" from him. It felt like a reaction test where you were trying to provoke a reaction that you knew would come.

Thats why I was hyper focused in that specific spot. It matters to me what people do in the micro moments, that's where most of the game is played

@titus it was responding to klicks post directly before it, as is this.

What I wanted to do was engage a bit with STD on his vote on me which felt weirdly out of place. I know STD doesn't often provide much to back up points like that but I was expecting... I don't know, more than what I got? Like there are levels to it. I wanted to understand what STD was thinking just a little bit but I got nothing at all, and it was entirely plausible as a response but still disappointing.

I can't think of a better way to get the exact opposite of what you're claiming you wanted here than what you did though. Do you really not see my problem?

[Thestatusquo]

I think I'm doing that thing where I try to convince someone they're scum and I should probably just take a second and think away from the thread a bit.

[Thestatusquo]

VOTE: klick

[Thestatusquo]

I'll admit to being a little bit leery about you not being here but i don't think I've ever seen you lurk strategically as scum in my life so not really that much tbh.

[Thestatusquo]

You should start lurking as scum so I'll suspect you for it more next time.

[Thestatusquo]

Its weird to see you focusing on macro big picture stuff instead of tone and feel.

But I guess that makes sense as a biproduct of not really being here.

[Thestatusquo]

Ok I'll throw you a pity

FoS

[Thestatusquo]

FB I actually have too many town reads this game and they can't all be town what do

[Thestatusquo]

Black is kind of at the bottom of my "ehhhh?" pile.

I liked the iso dive she did but I haven't really felt much since then.

[Thestatusquo]

I hated that strat.

[Thestatusquo]

What are your more in depth thoughts on black. I feel like you've been focused on her a lot this game, thinking I was pocketing her and then thinking that exactly one of her or me are scum and I'm not sure I have a good understanding of why you find her suspicious at all.

[Thestatusquo]

i would argue you only figured me out well AFTER it was obvious.

[Thestatusquo]

idk I think Pinkie is gonna die tonight. I have it on good authority

I've literally and repeatedly asserted that I 100% know ircher to be town

Read between the god damn lines and help me kill scum so my death isn't in vain for Christ's sake

Bro, you know im stupid.
This ain't 2010, you can't shout me to death to get me to vote with you.
Also mechanics are for squares. I don't care what ur hinting at.

IRCHER AND I ARE FUCKING MASONS

I mean yes literally everyone knew thats what you were driving at. I don't understand how that works with the mechanics of this game even a little bit though.

[Thestatusquo]

You're telling me theres a mechanic in this game where we just get two free conf town roles every day?

What?

There's no way theres any world in which thats balanced?

[Thestatusquo]

AND WHEB THE ROLE PASSES TO SOMEONE ELSE

THEY GET OUR PT

that sounds broken as fuck

[Thestatusquo]

bro in no world did you have to out that. fucking christ. there werent even any fucking votes on ircher when you started doing your screamy bits.

[Thestatusquo]

Bro go the fuck to sleep.

[Thestatusquo]

Bro I have no fucking clue.

[Thestatusquo]

I want pink ball to ask jingle. I've modded a ton of games and I feel like that role is so broken I wouldn't consider it even in my first draft of a game like this.

[Thestatusquo]

my team is all asleep because 2 of them are in europe and the other is a bat.

[Thestatusquo]

lmao stupid cummy little shame hole.

[Thestatusquo]

How do you have jingle on your team and you don't know the setup?

[Thestatusquo]

Kuribo, I say this as a fucking friend: role claim and all of that aside, you are so far over the line here right now that you couldn't see it in the distance if you fucking turned around and used a fucking telescope.

I don't know what you need to do to fucking calm down here, but you need to leave the thread at the very least and I think whatever you can possibly do to go to bed and get some rest would be advisable.

[Thestatusquo]

Alright, I guess we have nothing else to discuss tonight. Unless you want to chat with me on anything else.

You enjoy the Dragon Chronicles of Narnia.
I am going to go watch some anime.

I still can't believe you said durarara is just ok. Honestly it makes me want to scum read you in THIS game even though you said it in site chat like 5 months ago.

[Thestatusquo]

Pink ball isn't even voting dragon anymore.

[Thestatusquo]

It seems weird to me that the people who are supposedly sheeping pink ball have not even brought it up.

And he wasn't. He revoted yesterday after not being on dragon for a while.

[Thestatusquo]

Actually i just did an iso skim and i appear to be wrong about that second part. I could have swore he voted someone else.

[Thestatusquo]

I retract everything. I thought pb was on the gif wagon but he definitely never was.

[Thestatusquo]

Jumping off of a wagon that you yourself tried to build with an omega case to vanity vote on black does feel super weird to me though.

[Thestatusquo]

I am voting klick because every interaction I have with him feels like he's trying to make me stop talking.

He has explained this is because he feels I'm prodding at places he doesn't think are very worthwhile to solving but I have a problem with that answer too because I don't really think whether klick thinks my methods for solving are worthwhile really matters and frankly I think its kinda unresponsive to my overall point which is that he doesn't seem very interested in working with me or finding me either. It seems like he wants to get me to move on as quickly as possible whenever we talk.

I have roughly zero interest in voting dragoneater. I know people keep trying to minimize my dragoneater read but the ping for me was extremely strong and it is more than enough for me to not have any interest in limming dragon today.

I could be pretty easily persuaded on black but if I'm honest I feel like black has more townie points in her favor for me than klick. Klick might be just a difference of playstyles for me and I guess I'll probably feel bad if I'm reading this wrong but I feel talked down to and minimized literally every time we interact in a way that I more associate coming from scum who are trying to push me places they want me to go and not from town trying to work with me.

So that's about where I'm at.

I'm getting a pretty decent sized tattoo today so I won't be around much at all, but I'll be around to chat probably later in the evening.

[Thestatusquo]

***

***

I have a mechanics-related announcement to make. I'm pretty excited for this one, but after last time I made sure to confirm what I'm about to do is allowed and actually works. I've tagged both Kuribo and Ircher above, because I want them to notice this.

I have devised a method to not only confirm Kuribo and Ircher, but all future masons, regardless of whether there are any living masons to vouch for them.

The method works like this. Kuribo can post a list of encrypted messages in thread. Each message has been encrypted using a different key. Kuribo posts the list of keys in the mason PT. 10 messages and 10 keys should be more than we will ever need. And now, every time a mason needs to confirm their mason status, all they need to do is find the next unused key from the list and post it in thread with the next undecrypted message and its plain text translation.

This can be done using an online tool such as this one.

I will give an example. Suppose the next unused secret message is this:
vXTSEfE17f9ndzIH3ojTqFlHgcwa2y37G/EN16FSxUromT8vI/9urgoVTiyIuQjhe+hBBbD6mdIT2M68PPaPB4tBhHRwVQdMb32wwcn4SZg=

And the next unused key in the mason PT is this:
D66EC005F44BA5C3

Enter these in the decryption tool linked above, click "Decrypt" and "Decode to Plain Text", and you will get this secret message:
Deep is our blow, invincible wrath, we have no mercy, no homeland.

Only masons will ever be able to do this, because only masons will have access to the PT where the keys are posted. Even if Kuribo and Ircher both die, using this method even a single mason with no one to vouch for them will be able to confirm that they are a mason.

We can even do this today, if Kuribo and Ircher want to have a test run. One of them can post the secret message, the other posts the key needed to decrypt it.

I don't know if I just broke the game, but if we do this, the potential is

huge

.

I believe that encryption is expressly forbidden by most rulesets

[Thestatusquo]

I'm starting to feel like Dunn hasn't done very much at all.

They're like trying to present themselves as like a neutral thread arbitrator on all these different topics but i have a hard time really thinking of what they themselves think.

[Thestatusquo]

I've given my own opinion several times. I feel it is disingenuous to say I haven't done anything and am only acting as a neutral thread arbitrator.

I'm phone posting so perhaps i wasn't as clear as i should be but i struggle to think of what you want. Maybe neutral thread arbiter is overly harsh but maybe slightly direction less?

[Thestatusquo]

I really don't like 2375 above by TSQ. I feel like it is piggybacking off of Klick's suspicions and is not an accurate portrayal. I've given plenty of thoughts on this DragonEater wagon, for instance.

Do people often try to piggyback off of the suspicions of people they're voting?

[Thestatusquo]

I really don't like 2375 above by TSQ. I feel like it is piggybacking off of Klick's suspicions and is not an accurate portrayal. I've given plenty of thoughts on this DragonEater wagon, for instance.

Do people often try to piggyback off of the suspicions of people they're voting?

Are you going to pretend that it was pure coincidence that you chose that timing to voice suspicion on me? Or was it because Klick voiced their own suspicions?

What you phrased is wifom I think

I hate this post.

[Thestatusquo]

Dunn are u a native English speaker?

[Thestatusquo]

Dunn are u a native English speaker?

Yes. What prompted you to voice suspicion on me? I feel like what yout ake issue with isn't actually a thing. I don't think what you are saying about me not giving opinions or being directionless is correct.

There is awkwardness in some of your wording that kind of makes me see red but i was going to give you a pass if English isn't your first language.

Specifically "this is wifom

i think

is a weirdly wishy washy way to phrase that.

[Thestatusquo]

Yes that's what I do.

[Thestatusquo]

I chose this moment because I thought of it just now, I hadn't really even read Klicks posts when I said it. I've been kind of avoiding talking to him because of what I said in 2321

[Thestatusquo]

Black if you're here at any point can you tell me what you're trying to accomplish right now in the game?

[Thestatusquo]

Black if you're here at any point can you tell me what you're trying to accomplish right now in the game?

The past couple of days I've been trying to keep up with the thread by mainly responding to stuff towards/about me. I've got a growing to-do list that I plan on tackling Monday when I get more free time. This includes looking into FA's earlier posts and giving her the response she deserves, looking deeper into FB's ISO to solidify my read there, catching up on all the mech talk and stuff surrounding kurbio's claim, and figuring out which of my scumreads would be the best vote today

This is more in a micro sense, I meant more in a macro sense. What's your overarching thing you're trying to achieve in thread?

[Thestatusquo]

Though reading between the lines it sounds like its mostly "be caught up to present day before you try to make anything happen"

[Thestatusquo]

Like how would this day end for you, ideally? If you could magic wand wave and pick the elim.

[Thestatusquo]

Ideally I'll get caught up on everything tomorrow and my thoughts will be much more solidified. If I had to pick an ideal scenario now with pages still to read then I would yeet Drixx or GiF

ok cool.

Daykill: Drixx

[Thestatusquo]

I've been liking your content since I starting poking you and I've been liking drixx's contribution to the game less and less.

[Thestatusquo]

Unfortunately in the game of mafia good behavior only gets you a longer sentence.

[Thestatusquo]

Unfortunately in the game of mafia good behavior only gets you a longer sentence.

Then why do i live so long in mafia games

you and I both know you're a naughty boy.

[Thestatusquo]

but not everyone does.

[Thestatusquo]

Its kind of crazy to me that black thinks of herself as not present and behind but somehow still has 40 more posts than I do since I caught her in post count on friday night.

[Thestatusquo]

That's why I asked what she was trying to accomplish in a macro sense, because it seems like there's a lot of posts without much thought put into where they're driving and I can't decide if I find that townie or scummy.

[Thestatusquo]

I think you can be posty and behind

I dont disagree with this in a general sense.

[Thestatusquo]

I guess I see it as a playstyle thing

yeah I agree, as I happen to have the same playstyle, but usually I have a good idea what I'm driving at as either alignment and what I'm not sure of is if black does.

[Thestatusquo]

Ideally I'll get caught up on everything tomorrow and my thoughts will be much more solidified. If I had to pick an ideal scenario now with pages still to read then I would yeet Drixx or GiF

ok cool.

Daykill: Drixx

@tbone

[Thestatusquo]

Bruh I literally day killed in a game with BOTH of you like 5 months ago.

[Thestatusquo]

That's completely false.

I was also looking for blacks reaction.

[Thestatusquo]

Pretty townie reaction I think, fwiw.

[Thestatusquo]

I guess?
The only one who didn't react good was GIF cause i think he should know better

think he was playing along, which I actually do like.

you on the other hand plowed right through it like a truck. :/

[Thestatusquo]

Are you finally going to give me scum points.

I don't play along with other peoples gambits. I do my own instead.

a little yeah tbh.

[Thestatusquo]

I dunno. Dayvig makes no mech sense in this setup so I'm not weighing the reaction too heavily

But I buy it for now. I'll ask my team what they think of drixxs reaction.

UNVOTE:

I was gunna say it was 1-shot and everything.

[Thestatusquo]

am i the only one shocked fake day vig reacts is still a thing. i feel its an overplayed mafia staple that we should have moved past by now

Drixx hasn't played mafia in like 4000 years and black is a newbie.

There's a reason I picked the slot I did. (although the things I said about both of them were also true at the time)

[Thestatusquo]

imagine rolling a 1 shot day vig in amnesia, the first person uses it and u get it day 2. And then ur just like a unconfirmed day vig for day 2. Basically a VT but not even confirmed town.
How tragic

see this is the kind of hilarious design I like to put in my games.

[Thestatusquo]

Bruh I literally day killed in a game with BOTH of you like 5 months ago.

bring back bad idea you coward

[Thestatusquo]

i want to do a gambit too...

lets see

I guess im gonna claim Bus Driver
I bussed Dunnstral and Shea last night.
So obviously when Frozen Angel claims she was tracking Shea on night 0. She was really tracking Dunnstral

Therefore we know for a fact that it was Dunnstral who stole those donuts at the donut shop.

What do you have to say for yourself Dunnstral?

I actually had a donut last night and I don't think I've had one in like...a year before that? I bought it to get my blood sugar back up after the tattoo.

HOW DID YOU KNOW???

[Thestatusquo]

[Thestatusquo]

I do agree that was a nice touch.

[Thestatusquo]

I made it all big and stuff. I can't be lying in big text.

[Thestatusquo]

its a shame black didnt see it before the ruse fell apart.

[Thestatusquo]

you wanna dayvig me this time?

[Thestatusquo]

That is E-2 and titus has expressed intent to hammer.

[Thestatusquo]

I really think DE is going to flip green but him just continuing to refuse to be here is making it really hard for me to articulate that more than I already have. :/

pedit fb at least give me 69 more points for the reaction test.

[Thestatusquo]

And in the back of my mind I'm still thinking about HoD where uhhh.

yeah.

[Thestatusquo]

Can I just buy them like airline miles?

[Thestatusquo]

if this flips scum i do think Shea is more likely than not to be town.
Just cause hwy would shea be so defensive on dragon this whole day for so little merit to himself.

I do that as scum all the time to get exactly this reaction tbh. Surprised by this level of single dimension thinking from you.

[Thestatusquo]

perfect, in the null is right where I always live.

[Thestatusquo]

looking over player lists it seems like most teams besides mine put their best player in the large theme.

we put our worst instead.

[Thestatusquo]

ircher are you going to like...not say anything about your mason partners claim or anything at all?

[Thestatusquo]

Ok but presumably he also has a thread in which his partner was like "lol yeah I got high on cough syrup and outed us."

[Thestatusquo]

So can we talk about how kuribo/ircher are definitely not masons.

[Thestatusquo]

I'll open the floor. Anyone wanna claim mason?

[Thestatusquo]

There's no way the role is in the setup.

[Thestatusquo]

There's no way the role is in the setup.

If you have evidence, slow rolling it would be better.

As it so happens I agree. As is slow rolling whether or not I have evidence in the first place.

[Thestatusquo]

Whoever had my role last night should be able to clear me as town or confirm the person they targeted is scum. Unless they targeted Fey in which case that's pretty unfortunate

#confused

All will be revealed when we claim

What's the plan with that btw? I don't want to be involved in the mech talk, I'd rather y'all decide for me

no role is guaranteed to exist every day. nowhere in the rules does it say that there are 15 roles, we just know that there are at least 15.

[Thestatusquo]

You know what, do whatever the fuck you're gonna do to me today


How the fuck Romeo and Juliet gonna be roles in this and I get Juliet on day one and romeo on day 2

Between that and things I can't speak about I'm getting pretty fucked over in this game and I'm annoyed so if you wanna lim me then lim me

Just do it quickly ffs

You got mason again? No shot...

That's not what he said. And ... while 2/x is not necessarily a high probability, it's definitely within the possibility space.

And ... let's assume Kuribo is bullshitting. What's the game plan?

Kuribo claimed mason as a lover.

not for nothing but thats...not how math works.

[Thestatusquo]

What.

That makes even less sense. If you're lovers why would you claim masons a role which scum very much might night kill?

[Thestatusquo]

You know what, do whatever the fuck you're gonna do to me today


How the fuck Romeo and Juliet gonna be roles in this and I get Juliet on day one and romeo on day 2

Between that and things I can't speak about I'm getting pretty fucked over in this game and I'm annoyed so if you wanna lim me then lim me

Just do it quickly ffs

You got mason again? No shot...

That's not what he said. And ... while 2/x is not necessarily a high probability, it's definitely within the possibility space.

And ... let's assume Kuribo is bullshitting. What's the game plan?

Kuribo claimed mason as a lover.

not for nothing but thats...not how math works.

Umm ... if there is a mason/lover pair, that's two roles out of an unknown total. 2/x.

no its the probability of getting 2/x TWICE,

which would be 2/x TIMES 2/x.

[Thestatusquo]

No lovers are exactly the same as masons in this setup right? If you know someone got the other lover role you ARE confirmed town to each other. Scum don't actually get the roles I thought?

This still doesn't make any fucking sense.

[Thestatusquo]

It is NOT correct. Does no one read the rules?

The Mafia Team will be assigned Amnesiac Roles in the same random manner, though the roles will not be granted to them.

[Thestatusquo]

I'll just be incredibly clear:

I still think kuribo is lying. I don't know what else to do but just state this plainly. I do not believe any of this.

[Thestatusquo]

like his opening oh woah is me lim me just do it quickly. Is that what you do if you're a lover and you know someone else gets taken down with you?

Claiming mason under zero pressure on you or your lover when that makes scum more likely to shoot you and take out both you and your love pair?

Kuribo, what the fuck is this play if you're town?

[Thestatusquo]

If we continue to not lim it it fucking works.

[Thestatusquo]

Duces, I guess, I'll be back tomorrow when kuribo changes his claim to innocent child paranoid gun owner informed on irchers alignment.

[Thestatusquo]

like his opening oh woah is me lim me just do it quickly. Is that what you do if you're a lover and you know someone else gets taken down with you?

Claiming mason under zero pressure on you or your lover when that makes scum more likely to shoot you and take out both you and your love pair?

Kuribo, what the fuck is this play if you're town?

To paraphrase a manchild, "I'm old, I'm tired, I'm sick, and I play mafia with fucking children."

Not to mention I was high outta my Fuckin mind on cough syrup

:/

[Thestatusquo]

I played a few games of rocket league and calmed down.

Kuribo if you lie a single other time in this game I will death tunnel you with the fire of 1000 suns. I will not care if you're town. I will not care if you're lovers with 5 other players. I will murder you into death and then I will find your corpse in real life and dance on your grave.

That's how fucking upset I am at you right now.

But my conclusion is that maybe you are real.

[Thestatusquo]

I'm on ps5 dumbass.

[Thestatusquo]

I have like 20 friends on steam and I know who approximately 4 of them are.

Your statement was more plausible than you realize.

[Thestatusquo]

Guys, let's wagon Dunn versus Black and see what shakes out.

Rather black and klick.

[Thestatusquo]

That's been a huge issue I have had with Black. Words but no solid position

If you couldn't tell that my position there was that there's no way Ircher and kuribo fakeclaim this together then that's on you

That was not my take away either.

What part of "why would they ever make that play" do you not understand?

the part where u first started with wouldn't that make them scum.
the rest i kind of ignored. Good note for me on reading tho

feel like this is like...not really all that fair tbh.

[Thestatusquo]

Either not fair or like kinda mean.

[Thestatusquo]

There's something we're missing here. I am becoming leery of the mass claiming the more we get into it.

If the roles claimed are correct there could be as many as 6 conf. town right now just on being able to be confirmed to have taken an action with a role. This simply can't be the setup. Scum has to have some way to fuck with this.

[Thestatusquo]

There's something we're missing here. I am becoming leery of the mass claiming the more we get into it.

If the roles claimed are correct there could be as many as 6 conf. town right now just on being able to be confirmed to have taken an action with a role. This simply can't be the setup. Scum has to have some way to fuck with this.

As far as I’m aware from all the claimed role lovers are the only hardconfirmable ones

Scum prob has something like roleblocker to mess with things

Klick claimed a confirmable role. Black also claimed that whomever has her role can confirm she is town. Firebringers role should also be confirmable.

[Thestatusquo]

There's something we're missing here. I am becoming leery of the mass claiming the more we get into it.

If the roles claimed are correct there could be as many as 6 conf. town right now just on being able to be confirmed to have taken an action with a role. This simply can't be the setup. Scum has to have some way to fuck with this.

As far as I’m aware from all the claimed role lovers are the only hardconfirmable ones

Scum prob has something like roleblocker to mess with things

Klick claimed a confirmable role. Black also claimed that whomever has her role can confirm she is town. Firebringers role should also be confirmable.

Black claimed vanilla

Whoever had my role last night should be able to clear me as town or confirm the person they targeted is scum. Unless they targeted Fey in which case that's pretty unfortunate

????

[Thestatusquo]

So Mala brought up something that I missed:

Kuribo claimed mason as a lover.

Titus

How'd you know?

Did ya get the other role PM and you can't post in the PT because you're not town? Because that's what Mala thinks. I thought maybe you were going to claim rolecop, but you've claimed not to have taken any action.

Kuribo is clearly town.

As for the setup spec going on ... consider that all of our power is in roles that are randomly assigned. The more of us that die, the more likely it is that our power roles end up on dead or scum slots instead of us. That's a built in decline in power. That plus lovers as NU should be considered when trying to figure this out. Also I like that people are finally realizing that there are paths to making people very nearly conftown.

Since scum are going to end up seeing the roles over time, and probably already saw some, there's no utility to playing coy and trying to "hide" info. Hard claims of what we all had D1 is the play, and as you all discuss more, you're starting to realize why.

And for the record ... this also constitutes a BOP argument against Titus as well. She clearly would have thought through all these angles, and the fact that she has been playing dumb and pretending that none of these things occurred to her is really just not believable.

I think you're outguessing the mod and its very likely to make us lose. There are trivial ways to make some of these roles not conf town. Just off the top of my head what if the scum has a role like "2-shot mimic" which can mimic an amnesiac role or something.

Just my first thought. You are looking at the setup and looking at all these possible conf town and not taking the next logical step, which is thinking that scum must have a way to counter that or the setup is broken. 5-6 conf town on day 2-3 is so far over the edge of not balanced that it doesn't matter if the ability to confirm goes down, town can win the game by just eliminating at random within those who are not conf town. There HAS to be a counter, and we don't know what it is. That's dangerous.

You seem to not be thinking about that danger at all.

[Thestatusquo]

I don't think I want to claim. T-bone is the same kind of mod/setup designer as me in that he likes to punish town making assumptions.

And the more people claim the more I think we're making some really dangerous assumptions here and I don't want to lose to that.

[Thestatusquo]

I want klick or black. I don't think dunn is particularly scummy.

[Thestatusquo]

Dunn here reminds me a bit of dunn in firebringers business company game in that he's analytical and doesn't really push in any particular direction but he just is trying to puzzle stuff out which seems to be what he's doing here.

He was probably a bit more tryhard in that game than he was here but that is really the only difference I'm picking up on.

[Thestatusquo]

VOTE: Klick

[Thestatusquo]

I mostly do readlists as scum tbh because I don't find they're particularly helpful to me, but I'm willing to sit here and think about it for a sec.

Kuribo (Ghosts of NKs)
Ircher (Whimsical Activities)



Pink Ball (Jingle Ballers)
Titus (Crispy Cream Puffs)

GuyInFreezer (Average ™ Enjoyers)
Dunnstral (Polymewl)
Drixx (We Don’t Mafia)

Save The Dragons (Studies Show)
Firebringer (Perfectly Balanced)
Frozen Angel (Shadow Syndicate)

Black (Good in Plaid)
Klick (Klickin’ Chickens)

I think this is about where I'm at. Kinda surprised myself with a few of these. Firebringer is someone who the more he posts recently the more worried I get about him. I know he'll be delighted to hear this. I also kind of thought I would have StD higher but I just kept deciding that people were more townie than he was as I went down the list.

[Thestatusquo]

I feel like I went pretty up and down on you. For me what is going on is I have a lot of reasons that I find a lot of other slots to be pretty townie so by necessity someone has to be at the bottom of the list.

I'm not usually a big PoE player but I feel like this game really lends itself to a PoE approach.

[Thestatusquo]

Like to give more insight into my scum hunting I usually like to think of the game as clusters of interaction where players clump together in my mind as being linked through their interaction, not necessarily that they're aligned or must not be aligned, but rather that they just are linked in some way with how resolving them effects the game state. I think of them as keystone reads because they're the most important things to figure out and doing so allows me to put a lot of other slots into perspective.

And I'm really struggling to do that this game. Drixx and StD feel like one such pair to me and you and titus and firebringer kind of feel like another clump but other than that the game isn't really collating in my mind around this axis so I'm trying to be more individualistic and think more in terms of overall PoE.

[Thestatusquo]

So Mala brought up something that I missed:

Kuribo claimed mason as a lover.

Titus

How'd you know?

Did ya get the other role PM and you can't post in the PT because you're not town? Because that's what Mala thinks. I thought maybe you were going to claim rolecop, but you've claimed not to have taken any action.

Kuribo is clearly town.

As for the setup spec going on ... consider that all of our power is in roles that are randomly assigned. The more of us that die, the more likely it is that our power roles end up on dead or scum slots instead of us. That's a built in decline in power. That plus lovers as NU should be considered when trying to figure this out. Also I like that people are finally realizing that there are paths to making people very nearly conftown.

Since scum are going to end up seeing the roles over time, and probably already saw some, there's no utility to playing coy and trying to "hide" info. Hard claims of what we all had D1 is the play, and as you all discuss more, you're starting to realize why.

And for the record ... this also constitutes a BOP argument against Titus as well. She clearly would have thought through all these angles, and the fact that she has been playing dumb and pretending that none of these things occurred to her is really just not believable.

I think you're outguessing the mod and its very likely to make us lose. There are trivial ways to make some of these roles not conf town. Just off the top of my head what if the scum has a role like "2-shot mimic" which can mimic an amnesiac role or something.

Just my first thought. You are looking at the setup and looking at all these possible conf town and not taking the next logical step, which is thinking that scum must have a way to counter that or the setup is broken. 5-6 conf town on day 2-3 is so far over the edge of not balanced that it doesn't matter if the ability to confirm goes down, town can win the game by just eliminating at random within those who are not conf town. There HAS to be a counter, and we don't know what it is. That's dangerous.

You seem to not be thinking about that danger at all.

Consider the claimed lovers PT situation. Scum don't actually get the role so can never post in that PT. As soon as someone besides Kuribo/Ircher comes forward and confirms that both of them posted there, doesn't that very nearly conftown them? There is an edge case where Kuribo/Ircher are scum, but I think how to handle that is self evident, and not super smart to explicitly state at this moment.

The whole reason I'm saying what I'm saying, by the way, is so that others can interact with it. Instead of assuming that I am suggesting my thoughts are complete and air tight, please respond and give your own thoughts.

The lack of information makes what we do know difficult to reconcile.

This was me giving you my thoughts. As was this:

I don't think I want to claim. T-bone is the same kind of mod/setup designer as me in that he likes to punish town making assumptions.

And the more people claim the more I think we're making some really dangerous assumptions here and I don't want to lose to that.

I think this mechanical approach is incredibly dangerous and opens us up to get blindsided by parts of the setup we have no way of predicting.

[Thestatusquo]

Black (Good in Plaid)
Klick (Klickin’ Chickens)

You and Titus SRing me since page 5 is exhausting

Are you interested in any other part of the list besides yourself?

[Thestatusquo]

Read gifs ISO. He town.

[Thestatusquo]

So there's a button at the bottom of the page that says "isolate users"

If you click it and then click the checkmark next to "guyinfreezer" and hit enter it will pop up a page which lists out only his posts.

[Thestatusquo]

Vibes mostly. But theres some concrete stuff like his interaction around the commuter slot and just generally not seeming to have an agenda. I think his actions related to the dragoneater wagon are pretty town though he never did go back and tell us who was scum pushing dragon eater.

[Thestatusquo]

Mechanical play is imperfect at best. But being informed as much as possible is, I think, clearly preferable.

This is where we disagree because every piece of information we reveal isn't solely ours, but is traded with information to the scum.

You say that scum will already have the information but that's just I think demonstrably false. I think the scum in this setup get information in fits and dribbles and wouldn't naturally have that good of a picture until the late game, when they probably will have pretty good info I suppose, but that doesn't mean theres no negative utility to opening a faucet and telling them to fill up their water bottles from the very start of the game, and we by necessity don't know the full ramifications of our actions.

The lovers is actually a perfect example of why scum not having full information matters. If the lover claim had been fully public yesterday scum would have gotten a double nightkill. As it was, they probably should have shot the mason claim anyway, but if they knew it was a lovers claim they would have shot it 100%. This is just one example. The example role I talked about was another. We don't know what we don't know so the consequences of our actions aren't clear to us, whereas the scum surely have a counter to this many town roles being provable so outing all the information immediately could benefit them immensely.

[Thestatusquo]

I'm starting to think there absolutely has to be more than 15 roles fwiw.

[Thestatusquo]

read my posts on the subject today. I am seeing way too many roles that are confirmable in some way for me to think there isnt a strong counter to town claiming like this.

[Thestatusquo]

I used my action last night

did you have fun

[Thestatusquo]

why

[Thestatusquo]

Can I get more

[Thestatusquo]

I did shit at bowling and I'm here for a bit before passing out. Anyone have thoughts for me

[Thestatusquo]

hm ok.