Amnesiac Mafia: The Movie! That's a Wrap!

[DragonEater70]

VOTE: Firebringer
I really don't enjoy their entrance and I dare say it's possibly scummy.

[DragonEater70]

Monocole man suddenly draws a gun, aiming it at the cowboy.
"Drop the act!" he calls out to him. "Or else, drop dead."

(Fire please take the hint and stop this madness)

[DragonEater70]

Btw I am gonna say GiF is my first townlean here, for no reason in particular except vibe.

[DragonEater70]

(It appears someone here is anti-fun

I am here to play mafia, not to play wild west DND.

[DragonEater70]

Btw I am gonna say GiF is my first townlean here, for no reason in particular except vibe.

Pocketed

Wait what? How?

[DragonEater70]

Wait is this going to be the first game where I am being consensus townread on page 2?
Rather than consensus scumread on that page, that is.

[DragonEater70]

I’ll scumread you too just to make you feel comfortable

Thanks! Not used to being townread before page 10.

[DragonEater70]

Alisae informed me Icedragon is the same as Dragoneater.
I don't believe this

I don't believe Alisae is in this game?

[DragonEater70]

But we're playing team mafia so...

[DragonEater70]

Wait is this going to be the first game where I am being consensus townread on page 2?
Rather than consensus scumread on that page, that is.

Hold up, who is townreading you on page 2? I went back and checked and didn't see it.

I’ll scumread you too just to make you feel comfortable

Thanks! Not used to being townread before page 10.

I see now that Klick is townreadin you, but why are you acting like everybody is?

Basically I saw 46 as Titus saying she townread me. Maybe I misinterpreted her post.
Anyhow, I didn't mean to imply that EVERYONE was townreading me, but I was sincerely surprised to see 2 townreads (or so I thought) by page 2.

[DragonEater70]

Specifically if you could get into the part where you assume the alignment of the player who you are saying is pocketed that would be great.

I am so town.

So you WERE saying I pocketed you???

[DragonEater70]

Now, what else have we here? Firebringer taking the movie theme maybe a little too seriously, whatever. But I'm not all that fond of just brazenly declaring you're unhappy for not being scum. Dunnstral is asking questions and means business, like that. Dragon entered sounding kind of aggressive? Not sure what to make of that yet.

Oh, I did have a thought which might be beneficial, and games where doing this would make sense are few and far between.

In this setup, there are no true power roles. Everyone is equal. Even if you die with a power role, someone else may randomly get it the next day. How does everyone feel about a day one massclaim?

Feysal, instead of just narrating, would you like to provide analysis? I really want to hear your opinion on Firebringer, as well as Titus's confusing posts.

(you probably gave it later but I am playing catchup).

[DragonEater70]

Actually nvm you did give opinion of FB. Cool.

[DragonEater70]

Specifically if you could get into the part where you assume the alignment of the player who you are saying is pocketed that would be great.

I am so town.

Wait you're saying that you're there one pocketed? That's not how i read that post at all lol.

Yup.

Oh no. The horror!
I am confirmed townread by 2 people on page 2!
Impossible!

For realz though, from this whole interaction I kinda townread Shea as well I think? Titus is null-town, I guess?
Like there hasn't been enough content from anyone for me to feel confident committing to a townread, but this is what I have so far.

[DragonEater70]

Someone help me. Alisae is yelling at me

Of course she would be. It's Alisae.

[DragonEater70]

It did not feel like that to me, no. It looked more like they did not care about RVS and moved straight into the game proper.

I would argue Dragon didn't seem to care about RVS much either. I feel like both of their entrances could be considered "aggressive with a disregard for RVS" so I just wanted to see why Dunnstral got the pass

Just to clarify, is either of you saying that disregarding RVS is somehow scummy?

[DragonEater70]

Too many votes on Firebringer

Not really? We need a way to get out of RVS (which I think we partly have, but not yet fully).

[DragonEater70]

Can you explain why you thought it's too many votes? And where did you want to push instead?

[DragonEater70]

What questions do you like specifically? And tell me why you liked them.

All three in their first three posts. And because each of them seemed aimed at trying to read a different player.

I just read those posts, and I actually disagree, those questions are soooo meh it kinda feels like scum blending in.

VOTE: Dunn

[DragonEater70]

As soon as I started posting you said it wasn't worth listening to me? Did you not?

Your quoting RP again and taking it as though its my gospel.

Well the thing is, it's quite insincere to say something in character without every implying ooc that you don't believe in it, and exoect people not to be offended.

[DragonEater70]

Why? What is being pushed aside from semantics?

I'm not sure how to answer this. I don't agree with you, though; I'd need you to show me how they are only pushing semantics in order for me to explain how it's not, or if it matters at all. I generally like what they are doing, and can point to those posts.

I too can select posts from someone's ISO and claim they are "questioning/pushing things". If I am going to go to bat for you with my biggest townread, I need more.

You asked me for 3 reads, the black read is a little strained in order to fit the quota of 3. I didn't want to include Firebringer and I didn't want to Include Feysal because while I don't agree with the reason to scumread on them the only reason I have to think they are town is that they are slightly going to bat for me, which isn't strong reasoning, so they are more neutral for me right now still.

Would it clear things up if I said I was leaning town on Black but wasn't sure based on what we have seen so far, instead of saying "town". I'm also not voting for snake right now as I'm not sure they're not just looking awkward right now.

Why would you strain a read rather than say you have nothing?

[DragonEater70]

Too many votes on Firebringer

Not really? We need a way to get out of RVS (which I think we partly have, but not yet fully).

How are we bot out of RVS already?

Can you explain why you thought it's too many votes? And where did you want to push instead?

Too many votes on town, and ideally push not town instead

Right now we are, but I did have some RVS-ey vibes while reading the thread earlier.

Makes sense though, if you TR FB. Who is a good not-town candodate to push?

[DragonEater70]

Guys I re-read FB vs Dunn and honestly I've been scumreading both, but now I want to individually TR each one of them for making a good push on a scummy slot.
I'm honestly confused.

[DragonEater70]

Guys I re-read FB vs Dunn and honestly I've been scumreading both, but now I want to individually TR each one of them for making a good push on a scummy slot.
I'm honestly confused.

Talk to me about Dunn's read on Black. Do you agree with it?

That's a very good question. I think I definitely have a slight townlean on Black, but for a different reason than Dunn. So I don't think Dunn's read is far-fetched or anything.

[DragonEater70]

Oh nice more content to read. I guess I have a few minutes to catchup, why not.

[DragonEater70]

Guys I re-read FB vs Dunn and honestly I've been scumreading both, but now I want to individually TR each one of them for making a good push on a scummy slot.
I'm honestly confused.

What pushes are you talking about?

I was talking about these:

VOTE: Firebringer

Spoiler: Dunnstral Scum Case By Sir Firebringer

Okay, so my primary thoughts are that Dunnstral is not acting in this game in a sorting capacity, I think this is best seen in the early questions he came in with. The way he handled interactions with me was also weird and I try to wrap my brain around it because they don't make sense to me much completely in a town or scum dunnstral world but the focus to me wasn't figuring out my alignment and I think overall distraction.

lets go into his "solving questions"

-town points for spelling Mississippi wrong

Wish I could blame it on chatgpt but i wrote it all myself.

I am going to intermittently continue the scene because i didn't get the role pm i wanted and i am going to have to fun somehow

What does this mean? Did you read the setup?

Okay so I don't see the purpose in this question at all. The idea here i guess from Dunnstral is he thinks I didn't read the setup, I don't know what this tells a town or scum dunnstral if I did or didn't. I have not read setups beforea s both alignments. Dunn might or might not be aware of me favoring scum (i would think he should know with all our games together) but lets say he doesn't.

So what does this serve? To me this looks like seeing if he can see what i know of the setup to push me for it depending on the response. It doesn't look like sorting because what knowledge of my setup would help him sort as town, we are amnesiacs, we don't know the setup. So its either role fishing or psuedo trap to see if he can push me possibly under pretense of a 'scum slip', that last part might uncharitable here. But to me this question serves nothing of hunting. I don't think this is dunn trying to sort me unless magically he thinks scum me knows the full setup or something and i outed something about not getting the PRs (which i think are probably mostly hidden from scum too..again what does this serve)

Wait is this going to be the first game where I am being consensus townread on page 2?
Rather than consensus scumread on that page, that is.

Hold up, who is townreading you on page 2? I went back and checked and didn't see it.

I think the concern on who is townreading who is more of a scum concern. More mental notes taken of who is reading each other what for purpose of knowing where people stand. I also think this shows a lack of attention to the details here which I think is more easily to happen with scum. This one felt a bit less scummy because not paying attention can happen to anyone but the focus of who is reading u like that seems more of a scum concern.

I think that BlueSnakelet looks awkward here.

Their first post, 28, gives me that feeling. After that they banter for a bit and then in post 44 seem to say "what's the point of theme games" in response to someone else not liking roleplay. I feel this is a weird stance to have as usually this kind of thing is not present in theme games. I'm not sure where BlueSnakelet is coming from here.

This was after my vote but was pretty damning and most content dunn has made. I have yet to bring it up. I thought snek was the easiest person to push in this game and feel like scum Dunn took the bait here going for him. But even the way its argued doesn't show me hunting beyond someone is being awkward. The weird stance that someone is making about themes? How is this a scum mindset Dunnstral? He also ends it with saying not sure where snek is coming from but yet doesn't pursue it to ask Snek questions of what he is thinking or where thoughts are. Theres no curiosity there. Its not hunting. Its X is awkward and here is a weird take.


Okay thats it for me now. Now i go play more mad games tycoon 2

I do admit I've missed your unvote of FB.

[DragonEater70]

Also on rethinking of the Dunn v FB, I think that Dunn's vote was justified. On the other hand, FB's scumcase is based on something that IS scummy on Dunn's part, but could easily be pushed by scum and therefore doesn't warrant a TR on FB.
Therefore I am no longer TRing FB for pushing Dunn, and am gonna probably vote FB (after I finish the catchup).
For noe though I'll UNVOTE:

[DragonEater70]

[snipped out readlist]

VOTE: Titus

I really like most of your takes here, especially on Titus. Willing to vote here actually. And you get bonus town points.
VOTE: Titus

hey dragon

Kinda iffy on dragoneater, the whole "lol why is everyone townreading me" was kinda weird on page two when that wasn't a thing

why is it you can respond to everyone but me?

don't be scared I don't bite

I mean, I absolutely do bite

I honestly somehow missed your post completely? I am gonna read it in a few minutes, but I have to say I don't really understand what kind of response you looking for? You haven't really asked me a question.

[DragonEater70]

Well as I said I missed your post.
Anyway I am not feeling like defending myself today since I am apparently THAT townie (I think I've had 4 people calling me town so far) so I will have to decline the offer to go into defense mode.

Seriously though, if you read my completed games, I basically almost always get a wagon formed on me during RVS (I'm what they call limbait), but this game I got people townreading me instead. So I was quite shocked.

[DragonEater70]

LLD did miss that actually but it's an empty quote vote and you are being soft on Titus and letting her get away while FB and I were dueling.

Attempting to make it look like LLD is not reading the game is not a townie response to pressure

and

it's a discredit that no one can veritably prove

. In the text you quoted above LLD has made points about specific interactions to

it is pretty clear she is reading

.

Just curious, are these your thoughts or LLD's?

Having our teammates play the game too is going to get hella confusing. Now I have to read 40+ people? XD

IDK, for my team at least I am just posting whatever I want to, and then my teammates give me feedback etc.

[DragonEater70]

1. Why ask me? I have played with Titus before, but that experience is now years old. There are others here who have played with her more often and more recently.

2. I have also had a look at your past games trying to get a feel for your play, because I have some mixed feelings about it. This would not happen to be a game where you don't feel safe expressing your sincere thoughts, would it?

1. Well I was just trying to engage you. So you saying Titus is hard to read. Not really helpful, I guess. What do you think of the case against her? I personally feel like she's asking too many questions but not providing much of her own opinions, which is scummy.

2. It's unclear if this is aimed at me or Dunn. I assume me? In that case I am definitely expressing my sincere thoughts much mor freely than usual.

[DragonEater70]

Guys I re-read FB vs Dunn and honestly I've been scumreading both, but now I want to individually TR each one of them for making a good push on a scummy slot.
I'm honestly confused.

Can you elaborate on the Dunn SR?

It wasn't a very strong SR tbh, I already forgot most of it but I think it was mainly the fact that they asked questions which I felt weren't leading anywhere.

[DragonEater70]

Who is a good not-town candodate to push?

DragonEater70 - 1 (Pink Ball)

Sorry wrong answer. I am town this game (actually I am town every game and it's getting a bit annoying, but nevermind about that).

If you insist to SR me, pease explain why?

[DragonEater70]

VOTE: Firebringer
I really don't enjoy their entrance and I dare say it's possibly scummy.

why?

Their roleplay was triggering my PTSD from scum-spam in your Demon Hunter game. It felt like unnecessarily drawn out fluff that didn't help us get out of RVS and that was actually hindering us from having a readable thread.

[DragonEater70]

Ok Drixx.

You want engagement.

You Brick and Dunn is my current theory.

Explain it? I really don't see it at all.

[DragonEater70]

Who is a good not-town candodate to push?

DragonEater70 - 1 (Pink Ball)

Sorry wrong answer. I am town this game (actually I am town every game and it's getting a bit annoying, but nevermind about that).

If you insist to SR me, pease explain why?

What’s getting annoying?

Rolling town like 10 games in a row.

[DragonEater70]

No I haven't counted.

[DragonEater70]

I think dragon gets run up as town a lot and is annoyed by that generally, at least thats my perception from being pretty involved in the newbies queues over the last few months.

That's also true

[DragonEater70]

Pink, Blue, Black... where is redff?

Remember Demon Slayer? That game we had a very similar Playerlist and I actually slipped up and mentioned RedFF when they weren't even playing.

[DragonEater70]

oh and I think there is a good chance FB dun was tvt and feysel freaked when FB called out its possibility and went after feysel instead somewhere in those pages.

I actually agree with you on it possibly being tvt

[DragonEater70]

Well as I said I missed your post.
Anyway I am not feeling like defending myself today since I am apparently THAT townie (I think I've had 4 people calling me town so far) so I will have to decline the offer to go into defense mode.

Seriously though, if you read my completed games, I basically almost always get a wagon formed on me during RVS (I'm what they call limbait), but this game I got people townreading me instead. So I was quite shocked.

the next step is to think critically about WHY that is.

If you don't feel like you're doing anything that townie and people are calling you townie, one would think you'd be interested into delving into those town reads to try to read the players professing a town read on you, but I don't really see that step in the thought process happening here.

If you're town scum know you're town, after all, right? So wouldn't a too easy town read be a place you would want to start looking?

You know, I actually didn't think about this at all.
Let me have a look at the people who were townreading me this game and see if there's anyone scummy there (though tbh I'm already voting Titus who said I've pocketed her when I randomly townread GiF).

[DragonEater70]

VOTE: Firebringer
I really don't enjoy their entrance and I dare say it's possibly scummy.

You're probably town!

Klick, why?

[DragonEater70]

Oh wait Klick has already answered.

[DragonEater70]

Okay I just read through Klick's ISO, and initially it felt a bit weird:
It is kinda weird that Klick gave like 4 townreads with minimal explanation and no scumreads. It feels very easy to fake, I guess. And none of their posts really stood out for me at the start.

But then I continued reading and I saw those posts, which have a genuine town mindset IMO:

Spoiler:

VOTE: Firebringer
I really don't enjoy their entrance and I dare say it's possibly scummy.

You're probably town!

super why?

This doesn't feel at all like the desired opening play for scum

I've played like 3ish games in a row with Titus where she has been scum and in this game I'm getting a zeal from her that I haven't felt in other games. I think she's engaged her town solving brain in a way that she wasn't quite there for in the last few games I've been in with her.

It could be Team Mafia making her tryhard even if she's scum but I'm enjoying her content so far regardless and am fine to boost what she's currently doing for the thread.

From where I'm at right now FA feels very similar to Cosmos where she was scum though

Go on please.

It's not a very strongly formed thought
But the basic idea is that in Cosmos I felt like FA's approach was largely to question other people's takes as a means to develop her own view of the game and make it look genuine
It's different from a town approach in terms of motive for posting; the whole point of what FA was doing in Cosmos felt like it was to look town through having considered and nuanced takes that were developed by sort of hijacking other players' genuine thoughts and critiquing them
And here it feels very similar, I feel like almost everything FA has done has been a critique of another original perspective with only a couple of reads originating from something she has brought up herself

It all fits under this umbrella idea of 'I think FA wants to look town right now rather than actually doing town things'

Let's dive deeper. What reads feel sourced from FA? A sample that doesn't?

I felt it most strongly in her interaction with me. 336 particularly alerted me to this as a concept:

Because people like you aren't going to like it!

why do you think I disliked it? I just noted its existence. it doesn't give me any kind of info either way. that's why asked about what was behind the post in his thought process

I actually have more read on your tr on it than I have on the original read itself. (leaning toward the dislike category)

pedit: his going after blue for the titus thingy was what I called try harding on page 2 IMO I don't care about his rp

It's high-detail, specifically contradicts assumptions I made about her perspective, and develops what appears to be a nuanced take on both myself and DragonEater without doing the heavy lifting. I remember her doing something that made me feel very similar to this in Cosmos. Let me go find it

viewtopic.php?p=13538654#p13538654

I'd like to quote that post but I can't quite make it happen, idk whether I just am not able to quote from locked threads at all or if it's a mobile-specific issue

It's not an exact match to what I'm describing here, but basically I made an assumption based on VCA, and FA used it as a means of discrediting what I was saying while developing her own read on me as well as the situation without adding much genuine original thought outside of detailed analysis of my own thought.
The same sort of thing happened in her early-game argument with STD, in their conversation about 'shading'. This is probably a better example of it, it happened in like the first 10ish pages of that game.

341 feels similar. Lots of critical thought in a very focused way towards specific details of Feysal's 97. She gives the appearance of a nuanced perspective but it's limited to what she could derive from 97 itself, and I think the projection of nuance could be intentional.


I actually fairly like FA's last two posts as counterexamples of this - they contain clear general conclusions based on the things she's been talking about. The add-on in 361 a minute and a half later feels kind of like legitimate thought. But I want more of that from her.

So I am actually going to say Klick is a townlean of mine (and I was also convinced by their case that FA is scummy here).

[DragonEater70]

@GiF could you elaborate on the townread you jad on me as well?

[DragonEater70]

Also Klick, your readlist is so interesting to me. Why am I in first place? And why is GiF so low?

[DragonEater70]

Ugh god I really don't like dragon's response there

vote: Dragon

Not to reiterate the things that Shea just said, but I do agree with him on this. You never once questioned four people calling you town seemingly with no good reason. And then calling yourself limbait, ehhhhhhh

Just feels like a way to preliminary poo-poo a wagon on you

Read my completed games - I've been called limbait several times on D1, different games.

[DragonEater70]

Which wasn’t true since I correctly townread you our last game together

Indeed you did and I applaud you.

[DragonEater70]

I have also had a look at your past games trying to get a feel for your play, because I have some mixed feelings about it. This would not happen to be a game where you don't feel safe expressing your sincere thoughts, would it?

It's unclear if this is aimed at me or Dunn. I assume me? In that case I am definitely expressing my sincere thoughts much more freely than usual.

Yes, it was aimed at you, and now that I have your answer, it only worries me more. I have seen your past town games, and in them you have mostly seemed more relaxed than here. There was one exception though where you appeared more reserved, and according to your own notes PT, it was because you suspected the towncore in that game had scum in it, making you feel unsafe. But if that is not the case here, then yes, you are worrying me.

Wow, you've been doing some serious research I see. Well done!
I really don't know why you perceive me as being nervous/unrelaxed here, because in fact I am much more relaxed about my position than in any of my completed games (except the one where I suspected a scum in the towncore, where I was widely townread).
I do however agree that my playstyle is very different here, and if I'm allowed to say my opinion, it's probably just less tryharding on my side, mainly because I am very busy IRL with some exciting things so I don't really have the time or motivation to commit myself to the game fully.
It might change though around Thursday.

On the other hand, FB's scumcase is based on something that IS scummy on Dunn's part, but could easily be pushed by scum and therefore doesn't warrant a TR on FB.

I have posted my take on that case here, and frankly, it sounds not only bad but actively malicious. So what do you like about that case?

I'll check that post out in a bit.

[DragonEater70]

@Feysal, I read your case on FB and I agree that their push on Dunn is scummy.
VOTE: Firebringer

[DragonEater70]

@Everyone - I know I have some more content to catch up on, but that will have to wait for later.

[DragonEater70]

Hi guys, sorry for not declaring V/LA, but I had a flight yesterday so was busy the last 2 days.
I will be catching up now.

[DragonEater70]

Actually there's 40 new pages and it's a bit much, so I am going to just read the last 3 pages for now, then look at anything interesting that picks my interest.

[DragonEater70]

I think you and I are seeing PB in that interaction differently here. You are seeing PB being aggressive about Dragon and trying to shut things down. I am seeing them as a lot more laid back, saying what is on their mind, and trying to clear things up without trying to push strong opinions.

It's less about his attitude/tone there and more about what I think his motivations are for trying to invalidate my Dragon read. Scum!PB could have seen my "Dragon's siteflake is NAI" comment and got worried that it could potentially stop the conversation around Dragon. He even admitted he thought that's what my comment might do. If the wagon comes to a halt then scum have to find somewhere else to go today

I've got a pretty good feeling that there's scum on the Dragon wagon and PB calling me out for my Dragon read feels like an attempt to shoo me away from breaking the wagon down. He's not necessarily being aggressive about it but he's definitely not ok with me pointing it out or else he wouldn't have tried to invalidate it. Does that make sense?

Agreed completely, pushing me for flaking the site is scummy AF.
I also saw an early post by PB that pinged me as scummy, but didn't think much of it at the time. It was thispost, in which they were implying they were scumreading me (and also implying that since they correctly townread me previous, then this scumread is definitely correct, which I find disingenious). Thing is, they didn't give any reason for it. I kinda missed it back then because I wasn't giving this game my full attention and possibly tunnel visioning on a few players. But now in retrospect, seeing that they called me "obvscum" without any explanation of the read (and also their early push on me with no explanation), I'd say they feel very scummy.
VOTE: Pink

[DragonEater70]

We need DragonEater70 to come in or sub out.

Hi!
I am back.

[DragonEater70]

I'm having a hard time putting it into words exactly but the impression I got from that exchange was dragon legitimately read what I said and thought "wow, that's a neat idea! I never would have thought of that!" and just went about immediately doing it

Yeah pretty much on the nail.

Also, is this interaction actually why I'm being pushed? Because if it is, holy shit this is funny.

[DragonEater70]

Guys is my brain cooked or is page 59 really that hard to read and that wallposty?
Ughhhh
I think I sort of have a picture of what's going on but not quite?

[DragonEater70]

There's no point of keep waiting for DragonEater 'cause it's pretty much obvious that he will be replaced, so this is what I was doing behind the scenes. The idea was to see how DragonEater reacted to someone blindly scumreading him since it was a nice contrast to the early townreads he got.

Wait what.

[DragonEater70]

You mean your whole push on me was an experiment?
Do you expect me to believe this?

[DragonEater70]

He knew what he was doing, so he knew he would be townread for doing it, but had to act surprised to avoid being called out for being LAMIST.

I didn't know I would get townread for voting FB, at all. I was trying to end RVS with a semi-serious vote and a somewhat firm stance on FB (which matured into a scumread, then a confused townread, then again a scumread). I guess people liked that? Fine with me but I actually had no way to know.

[DragonEater70]

You mean your whole push on me was an experiment?
Do you expect me to believe this?

Are you kidding me right?

There's no point of keep waiting for DragonEater 'cause it's pretty much obvious that he will be replaced, so this is what I was doing behind the scenes.

The idea was to see how DragonEater reacted to someone blindly scumreading

him since it was a nice contrast to the early townreads he got.

[DragonEater70]

What is that supposed to mean?

[DragonEater70]

but the reason why he got called out was because he looked like he tried to show confidence when he really wasn't, proving that confidence is a townie trait that good scumplayers know how to replicate

Yeah it proves that people scumread other players for not being confident / for faking confidence, it doesn't actually prove anything about my own meta and it's an extremely weird way to phrase a push against me.

I wasn't faking confidence this game (nor was I doing it in Demon Slayer tbh). I think you are latching onto really weird things that don't actually make any sense when you look at the broader picture.

Also this:

But maybe I'm being paranoid, maybe DragonEater is used to being called scum early game and this was a genuine reaction, as Shea pointed out.

Is you giving yourself the ability to backtrack if the wagon turns out sour. Which it is.


PB is saying they played a game with me recently. Well, I also played a game with Pink Ball recently. And in Demon Slayer they just had this extremely strong townvibe to their posts, which they really lack here.
My vote stays 100%

[DragonEater70]

I didn’t say you are faking confidence this game. Read the damn post

Replying while reading, sorry.

[DragonEater70]

I found similarities in these three posts that I couldn't find in ANY of his posts of 4 other games: I think?
, I guess?
, kinda feels
, kinda weird
, I guess,

Lies:

From Weird Dreams Mafia:

Their posts feel kinda fake, like theatre, you know? Like, (snip)

Kinda reads like scum trying to make a town-sounding post and deciding to post about nothing.

Okay I kinda like Porkens now

I think this is possibly townie? I could see scum being frustrated here as well, but the frustration is actually geniune and I kinda get how Enchant feels here.

From Newbie 2114:

I feel they are also very uncontributive but it kinda feels within their meta

IDK guys, this post kinda feels like Elpis is trying to overplay how newbie they are

The way this posts are composed, all exhude the opposite of confidence,

from a player who not only usually exhudes confidence as town

, but also townreads other players who are confident and

scumreads players who are hesitating

/fencesitting. It is fencesitting. And it's a case of someone who projects his own way of playing into others,

calling scum whoever plays like he plays when he's scum.

I do? thanks for the compliment, I guess.

And that means that if I ever hesitate, I am scum?

That's wild! You've never seen me play as scum. I exude confidence even more when I am scum. Trust me

[DragonEater70]

but the reason why he got called out was because he looked like he tried to show confidence when he really wasn't, proving that confidence is a townie trait that good scumplayers know how to replicate

Yeah it

proves

that people scumread other players for not being confident / for faking confidence, it

doesn't actually prove anything

about my own meta and it's an

extremely

weird way to phrase a push against me.

I wasn't faking confidence this game (nor was I doing it in Demon Slayer tbh). I think you are latching onto

really

weird things that don't actually make

any

sense when you look at the broader picture.

Also this:

But maybe I'm being paranoid, maybe DragonEater is used to being called scum early game and this was a genuine reaction, as Shea pointed out.

Is you giving yourself the ability to backtrack if the wagon turns out sour. Which it is.


PB is saying they played a game with me recently. Well, I also played a game with Pink Ball recently. And in Demon Slayer they just had this

extremely strong

townvibe to their posts, which they

really

lack here.
My vote stays

100%

I feel whiplash from how much confidence you're now projecting into the thread

Dude. So I am scum if I am not confident and scum if I am confident?

[DragonEater70]

FWIW, I haven't been tryharding this game until now, and now I started tryharding. Therefore my style of writing HAS changed from before. Meaning I WILL sound more confident.

[DragonEater70]

this post talking about being obsessed with mafia which by the way DragonEater, if you ever read this: same;

High five dude!

[DragonEater70]

Anyway I'll be going afk for now, be back later.

[DragonEater70]

but the reason why he got called out was because he looked like he tried to show confidence when he really wasn't, proving that confidence is a townie trait that good scumplayers know how to replicate

Yeah it

proves

that people scumread other players for not being confident / for faking confidence, it

doesn't actually prove anything

about my own meta and it's an

extremely

weird way to phrase a push against me.

I wasn't faking confidence this game (nor was I doing it in Demon Slayer tbh). I think you are latching onto

really

weird things that don't actually make

any

sense when you look at the broader picture.

Also this:

But maybe I'm being paranoid, maybe DragonEater is used to being called scum early game and this was a genuine reaction, as Shea pointed out.

Is you giving yourself the ability to backtrack if the wagon turns out sour. Which it is.


PB is saying they played a game with me recently. Well, I also played a game with Pink Ball recently. And in Demon Slayer they just had this

extremely strong

townvibe to their posts, which they

really

lack here.
My vote stays

100%

I feel whiplash from how much confidence you're now projecting into the thread

Wait I think I misread this comment. You weren't saying I was scummy here, right?
(now I am going for real)

[DragonEater70]

Spoiler: humongous post once again, but with the post tags fixed. Sorry!

There's no point of keep waiting for DragonEater 'cause it's pretty much obvious that he will be replaced, so this is what I was doing behind the scenes. The idea was to see how DragonEater reacted to someone blindly scumreading him since it was a nice contrast to the early townreads he got.

Me and DragonEater recently finished a large game together: Demon Slayer, modded by Frozen Angel. In that game, we were both town. Scum fucked us over by dominating the thread and making it insufferable to catch up and read, multiposting, being present, fluffing, shitposting, the works. When the game ended, the concensus was that playing like that is anti town at best and scummy as fuck at worst.

DragonEater's very first post in this game was voting Firebringer on the very begining of page 2, calling him out for being scummy because of roleplaying, saying later that we needed to get out of RVS and it reminded him of the Demon Slayer game, were Firebringer was part of the scumteam. DragonEater then said that this game has similarities in both games on the playerlist, which is true: DragonEater, Pink Ball, Black, Firebringer, Frozen Angel (mod), BlueSnakelet and GiF (and Klick to some extent although I don't know how much they contributed to the Klickwork hydra), and some other players indirectly via teammates (like Ali who was scum that game too and DragonEater acted like he didn't know that Ali could be reading this but the next post acknowledged that this is team mafia.

I think DragonEater saw a chance to get early townread by doing exactly what the concesus was on our last game: don't let scum to dominate the thread with excessive noise. LAMIST, as pro gamers call it. He then acted surprised for being townread, and based on what I've said, to me it looked like a fake reaction. He knew what he was doing, so he knew he would be townread for doing it, but had to act surprised to avoid being called out for being LAMIST.

But maybe I'm being paranoid, maybe DragonEater is used to being called scum early game and this was a genuine reaction, as Shea pointed out.
I decided to metaread DragonEater to see what his town games look like, and use some data driven analysis to see how scummy he is in his towngames vs how scummy he could be being actual scum.

Let's see some similarities between every game:

1. Confidence in his reads/pushes:

I'll start with my own experience with DragonEater on our last game together: Demon Slayer. There are two things that exhude confidence, which is a synonym of actually believing what you're doing and not having to fake it because you know you're wrong: the first is not caring how you look like in the process, and the second is to actively push what you believe. This post is a good example of both points: he actually used the word confident here, he doesn't care to say that it's just a gutread, but says that that's good enough for him. He backed off in the very next post of him and he got scumread for it because it was weird that he reevaluated so fast, but the reason why he got called out was because he looked like he tried to show confidence when he really wasn't, proving that confidence is a townie trait that good scumplayers know how to replicate (and why chosing to tunnel a random player is a common strategy). He then started pushing Blue, interacting with everyone who voted him, asking people why they didn't want to vote him, and even voting for him at the end of D2 even when he had a soft guilty on Klickwork.

In Weird Dreams Mafia v1, he approached his reads via ISOing players From post 430 onwards, but the most important read he has is explained on post 445:

Top town read is you. While a lot of people feel townie here and like they are trying to solve, I can say with confidence that you are not TRYING. You are SOLVING. Your investigations are very on point and you have a keen perception of small details (but you don't latch into random NAI stuff)

Confidence is, once again, the key word here.

In Newbie 2114, we have an interesting post:

On the same topic: I'm currently voting you because, whilst I still think it's within your meta to be hesitant, I really don't like that you don't have any scumreads or anyone you pushing (though tbh I also don't have very strong scumreads this game so IDK).
I would love to see you ISO me and others because I want to hear more from you regarding suspicions and so on.

We can see here that DragonEater actually agrees with my point, that the lack of confidence is something scummy to point out. And his own level of confidence is such that he even acknowledges that his being and hypocrite, but that doesn't mean he's not right.

Newbie 2112 is his first game here and I didn't find anything in particular to say about confidence, but his ISO is interesting enough to give it a read; in this post, he describes his own playstyle, in which he says that he likes having strong reads on people which I agree, he does in every game I've read with him that's how he approach games.

Every game except this one. Look at post 243 for instance:

For realz though, from this whole interaction I kinda townread Shea as well I think? Titus is null-town, I guess?
Like there hasn't been enough content from anyone for me to feel confident committing to a townread, but this is what I have so far.

Or this:

I just read those posts, and I actually disagree, those questions are soooo meh it kinda feels like scum blending in.

Or this:

It is kinda weird that Klick gave like 4 townreads with minimal explanation and no scumreads. It feels very easy to fake, I guess. And none of their posts really stood out for me at the start.

I found similarities in these three posts that I couldn't find in ANY of his posts of 4 other games:

I think?

,

I guess?

,

kinda feels

,

kinda weird

,

I guess

. The way this posts are composed, all exhude the opposite of confidence, from a player who not only usually exhudes confidence as town, but also townreads other players who are confident and scumreads players who are hesitating/fencesitting. It is fencesitting. And it's a case of someone who projects his own way of playing into others, calling scum whoever plays like he plays when he's scum.

2. Analysis over stating facts:

In this part, instead of just quoting every single post that express analysis from his other games, let's just see what's going on in here and how many times he has given legit analysis out of the 51 posts he has. While he has given analysis in posts like here, here and here it feels more like justifying his scumreads to not look scummy rather than actually contributing to solve this slots, while his townreads (stated in here, here and here) have no analysis whatsoever which gives him the space needed to retarget, like when he voted Titus, an alleged null-town (

I think?

) here based ond Dunn's analysis, not his. The rest of his posts? Talking about himself on how he's being townread, how he is usually limbait on D1 (here and here), being 483 particularly good to understand what DragonEater is doing here: making the statement "DragonEater is being townread" on the top of mind of everyone, and shutting down whoever is scumreading him by calling himself "limbait".

DragonEater knows that he's limbaity, that's a fact. So now that he's actually scum, he needed to get rid of that image ASAP so he didn't get wagoned in early game. So instead of actually doing what makes him townie when he's town, that is, acknowledging that he's scummy as town but providing analysis and taking effort on solving the game, he focused on maintaining his townread status and left any analysis out. He's not solving the game as he usually does; he's worried on how he looks and how he's positioned in the game. I think the only post that replicates his town games is this one, but the analysis is poor enough to disregard it and, again, the "I guess" kills the confident vibe.

Is this common behaviour from DragonEater? Not at all. He talks about himself here and there, but much less in proportion. 15 out of 51 posts in this game are about himself and how everyone perceives him, town or scum. Using just the 50 first posts in his towngames to make it a fair comparison:

Demon Slayer: 5 out of 50 posts talking about how he's being perceived
Dreams v1: 2 out of 50
Newbie 2114: 4 out of 50
Newbie 2112: 8 out of 50

For a player who says sees his own playstyle like "liking to attract attention early", the way he does it as town is by interacting with people who start engaging with him, but actually talk about other reads and trying to sort out what's going on through the other player's mind, while in here the way he has attracted attention is by being weird about being townread in early game and not actually questioning why (only once, I believe, when he asked GiF why he was townreading him).

3. Fluff/comfortability:

Kinda overlaps a little with the two previous points because being confident and giving analysis even when you're being called scum is being comfortable too, but there are a few things that have enough merit to make it a category of its own. First off, about fluff itself, in every single game from DragonEater I've seen at least one interaction that has nothing to do with solving the game. Leaving RVS posts out of the analysis, In Weird Dreams, we have this example; in Newbie 2114, this three posts talking about writing; in newbie 2112, this post talking about being obsessed with mafia which by the way DragonEater, if you ever read this: same; and in Demon Slayer, this post. In this game, the lack of this kind of posts/interactions pings hard, because, as I said earlier in this post, seems like DragonEater's posts are calculated rather than going with the flow of the game. The obsession of getting out of RVS and shutting down FB because of "PTSD from Dragon Slayer" contradicts his own way of playing and approaching games. Second point and much more important was brought by Feysal here. DragonEater's answer is fairly damning towards this point on how NOT comfortable he looks in this game, since he agrees that his playstyle in this game is particularly different. "I really don't know how you percieve me as being nervous, but I agree that I'm not playing like I usually do" is saying he disagrees first and then unintentionally validates the point.

Miscellaneous things that caught my attention while metadiving DragonEater:

1. In Weird Dreams Mafia v1, he said that it's easier for him to townhunt on early game than to scumhunt, and that makes sense from his town games where he starts throwing a bunch of townreads before really pushing his scumreads. In this game, however, he threw two early scumreads and not a single townread.

2. In both Dragon Slayer and Weird Dreams DragonEater talked or used RVS as a positive thing to start the game; in Dragon Slayer, he actually meta cased Furtive for how he was RVSing compared to other games, and in Weird Dreams, well, he explicitly talked about how he sees RVS as tool that he uses to get things going. He also gave and exhaustive explanation of how he understands RVS, how it has different phases and how it should be used and seen as town in this post. In this game, however, tried to move out of RVS as fast as he could when he got what he wanted. His vote on FB would qualify as, in his own words, a RVS Phase II vote, and the way he dealed with RVS this game looks like he didn't want this game to have an organical way to develop this 3 states, not letting the rest of the playerlist to actually develop valuable reads.

This game has nothing similar with his town games, and even DragonEater is justifying this by calling himself more relaxed than usual and not tryharding. I disagree, I feel like trying to look relaxed is how he decided to approach the game to avoid being scumread early game, which happens often, but this time it would be right. Using his own meta to validate this feeling, the lack of confidence and solveyness, the non existent analysis and excess self awareness, and the feeling that he's not comfortable in this game compared to other games, all points out that we're dealing with scum!DragonEater.

PS: Black, the reason why I wanted to shut you down was because I wanted to see how DragonEater interacted with what was being said about him, not you. Sorry for coming too harsh on you, I had a bad day and I saw your post as an impediment on getting more information out of DragonEater. It happened here, where Shea answered a question that was directed at DragonEater, and pinged me for interfering with my objective. The difference is that I wasn't an asshole to Shea and I was to you, so sorry again.

You know what, I read this post again, more in depth and with actually working links, and I can actually believe that Pink Ball finds me scummy for having a different playstyle from my usual playstyle.
UNVOTE: Pinkball

All I will say about the change in playstyle is that I had been extremely busy IRL over the last few days (which is also why I flaked the site), therefore I didn't really have time and energy to properly analyze everything, make effortful posts, tryhard etc.
But as I said above, I am back to tryharding now. The game is on!

I am probably in a horrible disadvantage though because I've read like 25 out of the ~65 pages of this game, but that'll have to do because I have never enjoyed reading many pages (and PB can attest to that, I hated the spam in

Dragon

Demon Slayer). So it would be a huge favor if you guys point me to the most important things going on.

[DragonEater70]

I saw PBs large wall on dragoneater but I had migraine all day today, so I'll check that and DE's response to stuff tomorrow.

I think DEr ignored me asking him to react to my case on him which I hope he fixes by the time I go back to game tomorrow

night all

I probably won't because it's late night, but if you would kindly give me post numbers, I'll robably react by tomorrow evening latest.

[DragonEater70]

Goodnight everyone!

[DragonEater70]

Wow I haven't been here for a while. Sorryyyyy. Honestly I think my mind is melting due to IRL reasons and it makes me feel intimidated from playing this game which is all about brainpower. But I'll do my best to be more active here now.
Catching up now.
My team is scumreading Drixx and FA so I am gonna look at those two.

First question:

I pulled out the specific posts from DE which showed an inorganic progression of "reads" and strong opportunism, and I'm not sure if you caught/reacted to that?

Which posts are those?

[DragonEater70]

Oh nice I'm at E-1
Should I claim or something?

[DragonEater70]

Oh nice I'm at E-1.
Should I claim or something?

E-2 since Pink Ball switched to Black.

Oh good.

Anyway I am deeply suspicious of the fact that as much as I can see from a quick skim, nobody on my wagon except PB (So Feysal, FA and Drixx) paid any attention to the posts I made on pages 61-66 (at least not by page 71). Like my defense was straight up ignored. I would expect SOME response to it, not nothing. Also I question the extra votes that popped (Klick, FB and Dunn).

I see there's an alternative wagon on Klick, so I would like to know what's the case against them?

[DragonEater70]

So far the people I’m not townreading atm and/or needs to be sorted are

{Dunn, TSQ, FA, Black, Drixx, Feysal, Klick}

Assuming 3 scum

Hey that’s not actually that bad
I thought I would be much behind

Could you split them into “not townreading” and “needs to be sorted”?

I think a more useful split would be of the other players - townreading vs scumreading.

[DragonEater70]

FML I just realized that I've written a post calling out PB for goalpost shifting and never hit submit and maybe that's why there wasn't any discussion of it.

Well better late than never, right?

About your first point, I think that the proportionality matters, using the word “kinda” once in a game with 200 posts vs using the word “kinda” 4 times in 50 posts says something. You’re discrediting a valid point via “well achtually”

This is goalpost shifting and word twisting and incredibly disingenious, considering you wrote this:

I found similarities in these three posts that

I couldn't find in ANY of his posts of 4 other games

: I think?

Also, what about the other points???

[DragonEater70]

Wow I haven't been here for a while. Sorryyyyy. Honestly I think my mind is melting due to IRL reasons and it makes me feel intimidated from playing this game which is all about brainpower. But I'll do my best to be more active here now.
Catching up now.

My team is scumreading Drixx and FA so I am gonna look at those two.

First question:

I pulled out the specific posts from DE which showed an inorganic progression of "reads" and strong opportunism, and I'm not sure if you caught/reacted to that?

Which posts are those?

"Your team" is scumreading me now huh? not you yourself specifically

who in your team is scumreading me?

and why didn't you still read/respond to my case on you?

Imaginality and Porkens were scunreading you.

I was also scumreading you about 50 pages ago but have not really had time to read your posts (or most of the game) since then. I will do that (read your posts) now as I just finished everything else I have to do for today.

I am not responding to your case on me cause it sucks and I don't have anything to say about it.
If you really want me to explain Klick's case against you in my own words, I will do so.

[DragonEater70]

So I am actually going to say Klick is a townlean of mine (and I was also convinced by their case that FA is scummy here).

Why was klick scum leaning me? explain their "case" in your own words please

I think I have but in case I haven't:
Klick was saying they saw a certain attitude from scum!you in a completed game, and linked a post. In the post they linked, you were sort of mega-analyzing and simultaneously attacking/countering somebody else's take (or their assumption, to be precise). Or "hijacking" it, as Klick called it.
Then Klick quoted one of your posts this game (336), in which you do almost exactly the same thing. And it definitely smells like something AI.

[DragonEater70]

BTW, since you asked nicely,
VOTE: Frozen Angel

[DragonEater70]

nothing about how I found you too self aware yet not solving? that I think you don't develop reads but rather sheep them and go on flows?

What exactly do you want me to say? "Well actually you wrong I am not in fact self aware"?
I'd much rather do something productive with my time.
And you know what, yes I can see how me agreeing with other people's scumcases can be seen as sheepy, but it's a total misrep to say I don't have reads of my own. I've stated quite a few reads this game, the vast majority of which were my own.

In regards to not solving, I am trying my best but honestly I've been away for several days and I have no idea what is going on so it's a bit hard to completely follow the logic of all the accusations and reads. But if you want to know, here's a readlist I threw together earlier today while discussing in my team chat:

Shea - top townread
GiF, FB, Dunn, Kuribo - moderate to high townread.
PB - unsure, probably scummy.
Titus - null scum
FA - scummy
Rest of players - I need to read more to see where I'm at.

[DragonEater70]

You faked agreeing with klick on that meta read

as you faked your read evolution on dun/fb

as you faked evaluating my read/case on you and having absolutely nothing to say about it when "self-aware" you that was everywhere in the early game if was with a town mindset would not let go of those points

as you faked your "team" scumreading me suddenly as a back track from your own read

as you faked "having a scum read on me now" to drop that vote without 0 evaluation on my slot/motivations/posts and just because I'm hard pushing you and for you to appear consistent

This is just an extremely nervous scum caught.

case closed

And that's why I am not bothering replying to your case on me. What can I say except "I didn't fake it?"
Is there even a way to prove that I genuinely agreed with Klick's metaread?
I never faked evaluating your read on me, because I never cared about your read on me. It's based on BS assumptions.
I never faked having a SR on you, I voted because I dislike your push and it's irritating, maddening even, and you are taunting me to vote you basically. Maybe you don't see it, but it feels that way.

[DragonEater70]

nothing about how I found you too self aware yet not solving? that I think you don't develop reads but rather sheep them and go on flows?

What exactly do you want me to say? "Well actually you wrong I am not in fact self aware"?
I'd much rather do something productive with my time.
And you know what, yes I can see how me agreeing with other people's scumcases can be seen as sheepy, but it's a total misrep to say I don't have reads of my own. I've stated quite a few reads this game, the vast majority of which were my own.

In regards to not solving, I am trying my best but honestly I've been away for several days and I have no idea what is going on so it's a bit hard to completely follow the logic of all the accusations and reads. But if you want to know, here's a readlist I threw together earlier today while discussing in my team chat:

Shea - top townread
GiF, FB, Dunn, Kuribo - moderate to high townread.
PB - unsure, probably scummy.
Titus - null scum
FA - scummy
Rest of players - I need to read more to see where I'm at.

So your last post before vanishing was you saying you agree with feysel case that FB is scummy after having FB towny,

now you don't have any read on feysel and you have FB back as high tr without reading more of game as you were away?

I don't have a read on Feysal because I don't remember anything they did at all. Sure I guess it was them who proposed that FB was scummy but it didn't strike me as something to remember about them.

I changed my read on FB due to discussion in my team chat, pointing out that it's actually typical of FB to behave the way they do this game as town. I'd also earlier said I think FB and Dunn could be TvT.
Also, this might sound as a very weird reason to TR FB, but I generally don't like to keep early scumreads in Large Theme games. Experience has taught me that the players I scumread very early are basically always town (100% of players I scumread in first few pages of both of my completed large games were town, IIRC). So I accounted for that and raised his position on the readlist.

[DragonEater70]

What happened to your teams read on drixx

I got distracted by FA, will get to analyzing Drixx shortly.

[DragonEater70]

Well I knew PB and FA were scummy af, but I am shocked that TSQ was scum. And actually also surprised about Dunn.
Sorry for flaking this game TWICE, leading to my miselim.

[DragonEater70]

First, why was I so convinced about Dragon being scum? When this game started, I was playing with Dragon in another ongoing game. He was the only player here I had recent meta for, having already done that research for the other game. That is why his entrance here immediately caught my attention. And later on, when he disappeared from this game for a while and claimed real life reasons, I was certain he was lying, because I was seeing none of that in my other game with him, where he was turning into a leading force of the town, driving discussion and posting his own theories. I was stunned when he flipped town.

Well there's a big difference, for me at least, between engaging a game with 1-2 pages a day and engaging a game with like 20 pages a day. Anyway, I do feel truly sorry for the low activity level here.