Guns & Roses VI [Game Over]

[Taly]

oh shit im here reading omg

[Taly]

VOTE: Taly

Welcome back.

read my mind, doll

did i choose gun or rose?

[Taly]

There are 10

Roses

in this game.

oh wow, im liking these odds

[Taly]

VOTE: gamma

FEAR ME
I AM MALA
HEAR ME
ROAR

lets let the mech wiz take a look at it

LETS GO TITUS AND GAMMA

FORMULATE.

I simulanteously got town and scum pings from this posting.

how's this read looking now?

[Taly]

any town who claims gun is a guaranteed non-bulletproof for scum to be able to kill

i ISO'd after skiming this and im a bit curious what the purpose of focusing on picks here is?

[Taly]

I consider anyone who is actually crazy enough to claim the guns as IC

[Taly]

gamma

are you misting me

[Taly]

I think I'm in the not mass claiming boat as well and agree with guns claiming if they've made a kill. I suppose that begs the question, do they only claim if they make a kill? Not if they shoot a rose that was BP that night?

The goal is to track scum kills. On a no death night, a gun should claim because it confirms a bp player that night. It does out a rose, but it essentially confirms them. We do have a fair amount of roses.

If we track a rose that survived on a no kill night with no corresponding gun kill, then it's very likely that slot is town. (There are edge cases, but best not to go into them.)

We don't want a massclaim. We only want claims when they lead to info.

agreed

[Taly]

only town can be roses, right?

[Taly]

ok so why did you decide to pick rose?

ok so why did you decide to pick rose?

Because it implues mafia need to remove me at some point.

methinks something is artificial in this interaction

[Taly]

im sorry but my brain is effectively blocking out everything about setup spec

[Taly]

cool
I think Enchant is scum for another thing, I think his response to being questioned on his pick feels a bit like how re responded in the PYP X/Y HoS_S game we 3 were in

and

aristeia

?

[Taly]

Ok you got me i did in fact pick gun.

I pretended i townread wheme, so i can shot wheme in the face without being shot back but i guess it's blatant i always pick gun.


Bruh game.


So yeah. Crosskill?

UNVOTE:
Okay I can allow crosskill

huh

[Taly]

brain recording this vote trajectory

VOTE: enchant

Of course you can't let me shot wheme, until she wastes gun on some random townie, uhum.

I see this as attempt to powerlim me so Wheme can say "oh i joked i am in fact rose" on D2.

pedit

only town can be roses, right?

Scum can be rose

fuck that

[Taly]

no, i meant to quote cakez sigh

[Taly]

That said, my vote on Enchant was RVS and if I'm going to practice what I preach I'll unvote for now.

UNVOTE: Enchant

curious, you didn't seem to engage with the recent votes on

enchant

when you unvoted here.

[Taly]

Personally I still think we forget about an Enchant or Wheme wagon until D2 and instead anyone pushing for an Enchant or Wheme wagon are good fodder for a wagon.

VOTE: SirCakez

you really need to sell me on this one

[Taly]

VOTE: enchant
looks like a flailing wolf to me, this feels notably different from just normal Enchant scumminess

[Taly]

in other news

VOTE: Dunnstral

[Taly]

She says menacingly

[Taly]

Disclaimer, I recently came down from mania and I'm having a not-so-smooth transition to a new med that will likely be changed again

And it's mid semester PhD program

So full thinking capacity is on hold

[Taly]

only town can be roses, right?

I find this thought hard to believe based on the conversations in thread before this. People have been discussing whether mafia would pick Rose or not before this point.

You find this post hard to believe even with the surrounding context?

oh shit im here reading omg

There are 10

Roses

in this game.

oh wow, im liking these odds

im sorry but my brain is effectively blocking out everything about setup spec

Disclaimer, I recently came down from mania and I'm having a not-so-smooth transition to a new med that will likely be changed again

And it's mid semester PhD program

So full thinking capacity is on hold

I thought my level of knowledge was conveyed lucidly

[Taly]

Ngl I don’t really like either of wheme or enchant’s play rn

I like Gamma for town this is basically what I think reading up to this point.
My posts towards Wheme basically are self-evident. If he does something townie I'll townread him but he isn't doing anything and he's a gun so there's no reason not to kill him.
Enchant I think is trying to leverage his claim in a way that has wolf motivation.

walk me through why we kill guns here? theoretically we could gatekeep shots

[Taly]

I have a gun

Ima shoot Ali I think

I think enchant is town

Please vote me off day 3 my gun is night 2

IF IM WEAK SCUM WHY DO I CLAIM GUN AND BRING ATTENTJON TO MYSELF

Ali’s reasoning is very weird

I'm a bit intrigued by your Ali thoughts, is there any practical reason to withhold them?

[Taly]

I think I'm leaning toward "picks = NAI"

[Taly]

I have 1 solid-ish townread. Not bad tbh

[Taly]

ali

more homework for you

i skimmed your ISO, got too bored and stopped reading

so can you explain your

enchant

scumread?

[Taly]

Why would you shoot Wheme?

Cuz i am only town gun.

I don't believe one scum picked rose.

Wheme could be a n1 rose baiting the mafia kill. They claimed right after someone said a gun claim would be a defenseless confirmed town, if I remember correctly. I don't think mafia would claim to be a gun right away because then they can be shot by the town guns if they don't believe them.

I don't like to have to spell that out but if you are the only town gun you getting wagoned is bad and you shooting at wheme is bad.

Titus

, how are you feeling about this post?

[Taly]

I have a gun

Ima shoot Ali I think

I think enchant is town

Please vote me off day 3 my gun is night 2

IF IM WEAK SCUM WHY DO I CLAIM GUN AND BRING ATTENTJON TO MYSELF

Ali’s reasoning is very weird

I'm a bit intrigued by your Ali thoughts, is there any practical reason to withhold them?

Equally important,

Wheme

Why bargain to be eliminated D3 if you're town?

Pedit

I am not gonna hide. I can shot N1.

So if Wheme can shot N2 i always win.

Is this your defense of eliminating

Wheme

over yourself D1...?

[Taly]

Is this your defense of eliminating

Wheme

over yourself D1...?

If you eliminate Wheme, who i will shot?!

Just let crosskill happen, fools.

If you're saying to shelve you both so you can kill him first (not sure that I agree with this plan yet)

Then who do you scumread or think should be wagoned now?

[Taly]

I haven't ruled out

Wheme/Enchant

TvS or even TvT thus far.

I feel like Enchant and Wheme both being scum is almost like *too easy*? Like I feel like they would have solved this shit in scum chat or something by now. And they are both a little naturally scummy I think

I recommend providing an alternative if you think people are misled here

[Taly]

Personally I still think we forget about an Enchant or Wheme wagon until D2 and instead anyone pushing for an Enchant or Wheme wagon are good fodder for a wagon.

VOTE: SirCakez

This line of logic only works if you have reasons to believe one or both of

Wheme/Enchant

are town.

Aside from what you posited 230, independent of any other slots' interaction with these two, why would we consider one or both of them to be town?

[Taly]

Enchant picking gun is NIA for me
I don’t really see why people are scumrrading enchant for it

Can you point to somebody scumreading Enchant for picking gun.

Mind meld
No one thinks that's why Enchant is scummy.

ngl, i thought the same as

Celeboki

but ig i need to reread earlier pages

[Taly]

Dunn

, is it fair to say your posts are very passive and provide little to the discussion even though there's a decent amount of volume to them?

[Taly]

Wheme, Alisae, Titus, Dunnstral, Cakez, and Celeboki

<--- people I'm wanting a reply from.

I'll be back later.

[Taly]

I question how productive this back and forth is

[Taly]

I question how productive this back and forth is

I question how productive you are

I don't understand where you're coming from here. I am one of the highest posters with questions and some already-given opinions about the game. I was simply commenting on how the current conversation was helping people gamesolve. You can disagree with me, but you don't have to disparage my contribution here.

[Taly]

I'm sorry I said anything. Damn.

[Taly]

But actually, I do have an analysis coming soon, I'm just very busy today.

[Taly]

[Taly]

I question how productive this back and forth is

I question how productive you are

I don't understand where you're coming from here. I am one of the highest posters with questions and some already-given opinions about the game. I was simply commenting on how the current conversation was helping people gamesolve. You can disagree with me, but you don't have to disparage my contribution here.

how productive do you think post 394 actually is Taly to advancing the game state.

I think this is a good example on why this is advancing the gamestate, because you're sharing your POV on disagreeing with my initial statement, which helps me understand your perspective on the game better.

I said my statement initially because I did not see anything that helped me sort you,

Theta

, or

Bulge's

slot.

And this is changing that.

[Taly]

There's something I keep coming back to and disagreeing with,

Aristeia

:/
I just stated scum can also win if all town roses are dead
That’s been a thing in every run of this setup

I've never played this setup before but it just feels silly to me to pick rose as mafia - I'd pick gun every time

I don't think it's silly at all for mafia to choose rose.

The issue is not "does this setup choice make sense as mafia?" - I see it more as "what can mafia do to endgame?"

Selling the idea that only mafia will pick guns while being a mafia rose is one way I can see the latter's objective being true.

So I want another explanation of your scumreads on

Enchant/Wheme

, because I'm unconvinced off of this premise.

[Taly]

Unless I'm misreading the rose ability, the mafia can theoretically protect themselves from a shot.

Sounds attractive for those who know they're often LHF or suspected early.

Can you share the post where

Enchant

lied? I didn't pick up on that my first read through.

[Taly]

I have a gun

Ima shoot Ali I think

I think enchant is town

Please vote me off day 3 my gun is night 2

IF IM WEAK SCUM WHY DO I CLAIM GUN AND BRING ATTENTJON TO MYSELF

Ali’s reasoning is very weird

I'm a bit intrigued by your Ali thoughts, is there any practical reason to withhold them?

Equally important,

Wheme

Why bargain to be eliminated D3 if you're town?

Pedit

I am not gonna hide. I can shot N1.

So if Wheme can shot N2 i always win.

Is this your defense of eliminating

Wheme

over yourself D1...?

Can you get to this

Wheme

?

[Taly]

Enchant

, why do you even scumread

Wheme

?

[Taly]

hmmm, i want more people to engage with me, i dont think asking questions has helped me too much.

[Taly]

perhaps you could share your thoughts instead

Like how I'd rather people ask me questions instead of discouraging me by questioning my productivity?

Okay, I'll vomit here. Half of this playerlist has scum-pinged me at least once, including you

Aristeia

.

I fail to see how massclaiming is helpful. Does almost nothing to help me determine who is scum and then all the information on people's role is out in the thread for mafia to plan their actions around.

I don't want to massclaim.

And aside from me, there's enough resistance for me to consider it unhelpful to do D1 unless opinions change.

Spoiler: Weak Townpings

The solid-ish townread I mentioned in my ISO earlier today was

Titus

. That was mainly because I liked

Titus'

initial ping on massclaiming, and there's a post or two where I mindmelded with their POV on

Dunn

. They also responded to my prompt to them earlier which makes me think it's likelier town-

Titus

because I figured they'd be dodgey about pushing a scumread.

This is a weak and somewhat faded read on

Titus

, but it was what I had.

Then I figured

Malakittens

was coming from a town slot because I think their light-hearted posts ring as natural and less likely scum trying to acclimate to a rather serious or stale environment.

Theta

reminds me of one player that really likes setup spec. But tbh, they can probably enter townpings.

Page 16 showed some nuance to their thought beyond just trying to coordinate a mech-related action for town. I think they're genuine.

Gamma

is someone else that does not bother me on the surface, they tonally hit all the points I'd consider to be town-them, and this is coming from someone who I have a good bit of experience with, like with

Dunnstral

,

Titus

and

Alisae

(sort of). It's not a well-articulated read, and I do feel I should pay more attention to their votes around

Cakez

and

Enchant

, but they seem to be coming up with their own reasoning which and is not using any inflated emotion or idea to emphasize a point.

In retrospect, I probably hard misinterpreted the pushes on

Wheme/Enchant

by thinking it was fully based on spec choices rather than the interactions around them. I feel like the wagons are more AI than their posts itself.

(I did mindmeld with Celebloki for having the same interpretation as I did initially, which is why I do have a townping there. Yet their defense of Enchant/Wheme wagons without explicitly townreading them gives me pause.)

But outside of that, I spent the majority of today thinking about potential SvS within

{Ari/Wheme/Enchant}

but part of that idea pretty much crumbled with

Ari's

recent posts because they scumread

Enchant

off of lying, instead of what I presumed to be a potential scum motive I outlined in 411.

I don't agree with crosskilling namely because I'm not clear on

Enchant

-town, and they can just wish to be shelved to eliminate a LHF town (

Wheme

) and it be easily justifiable. Or, much less likely, kill their partner for credit. I've seen it happen, especially in Large Themes before. Also, I am interested in how

Wheme

came to that conclusion of

Enchant

-town. Furthermore, I don't really see much of substance from

Wheme

but that's likely due to playstyle and they don't seem too keen on sharing their opinions unless explicitly prompted. That probably is a sign closer to town-indicative behavior but in a vacuum of weak reads on the playerlist, it's harder to make a concrete stance I'd back up with conviction.

I also don't see scum as this assertive often, so

Ari

suspicion has fallen. (Or maybe I want a break.)

Alisae

, I don't quite have a handle on, I don't know how I feel about their stonewall approach to

Wheme

and then subsequent push on

Enchant

, but this is really the first time I'm thinking about it tbh.

Cakez

feels like a bystander that, unlike

Dunnstral

, actually moves their vote around to places that people have already focused on. This might be a playstyle observation though.

I eluded to this in my earlier post today but I scumread

Dunnstral

because I feel like a lot of their posts are a regurgitation of known information or what someone else said, which doesn't strike me to be on par with a player of their caliber.

Spoiler: Thoughts on the remaining players: mfeathers/Bulge

I haven't really focused on either of these players, but

mfeathers

hasn't said anything that seems off judging that they're used to a different site culture.

Bulge

has not caught my attention much. The only thing I can say is that I had a slight mindmeld, when I was entertaining SvS in the pool above, that was briefly before he pushed

Aristeia

.

I haven't been quite vocal about my reads until now because tbh, I'm content with a wagon on maybe 5 people, and didn't want to bloat the thread with half-baked reads.

But I'm making an exception for you

Aristeia

, congratulations.

(This isn't passive aggression, I'm being cheeky.)

[Taly]

tfw you get pushed into wallposting and then the thread ghosts you

[Taly]

yall im busy tomorrow and i just took a new med im not used to yet

so this is optimal taly!brain time

[Taly]

alisae

i know you like to be quiet with reads but how you feelin about my reads [post=432]432/post], aside from what i say about you

[Taly]

theta

, do you have any confident reads?

[Taly]

[Taly]

theta

, do you have any confident reads?

not really no

i am wondering if scum went all rose specifically to set up this situation but that does seem a bit bold

I feel like all my necessary thoughts on this reality is summed up by 411

what about weak, washy reads? any thought aside from setup?

[Taly]

what's your case for

wheme

ali

?

[Taly]

why should i trust that

[Taly]

i guess there is a benefit to effectively pushing this into a mountainous game?

[Taly]

this doesnt feel like

ali

powerwolfing, so im gonna townbin e

[Taly]

S-tier silver tongue

[Taly]

the thing is, i can get behind

enchant

flip, but im not convinced

wheme/enchant

are partners, so thats my hangup with your plan

which, ik i cannot stop you, but its a good idea that we are on the same page here.

[Taly]

thats fair, but why not utilize town gatekeeping a shot?

are you saying thats pointless?

[Taly]

That is true. Unless something changes,

Wheme/Enchant

are some of the most optimal slots to shoot based off advised strategy.

Why do you townread

Dunn

and

Cakez

?

[Taly]

VOTE: Enchant

[Taly]

ali

you care about explaining the "no reads"?

[Taly]

Titus

, one of your posts gave me the impression that you do not scumread, or perhaps even townread

Enchant

.

Is this assumption wrong? If not, why do you townread them?

[Taly]

gamma

, how are your reads lookin?

[Taly]

lord, all the guns want to kill each other

(alisae/wheme/enchant)

minus

wheme

townreading

enchant

[Taly]

I've squeezed as much as I can out of this interaction.

I think resolving the guns

Alisae/Enchant/Wheme

in some form soon is inevitable, and I see less realities where

Enchant

is town among the bunch.

Nighties

[Taly]

E-3

(night fr and *nods at

gamma

post*)

[Taly]

I don't think "meta" is a good representation for why you're wagoned,

Enchant

.

1.

If you tried to force a massclaim in 87 and 171, why did you start your claim with a lie 123 166?

2.

Your read progression on

Wheme

is inconsistent:
87 108 - They're conftown because the other guns must be mafia.
166 184 - You said that you didn't believe that and that you are confident

Wheme

is mafia, wanting to kill him without resistance, the reason for your "read" in the previous posts.
428 - You don't really care to read

Wheme

even though you want to kill there, mostly off the original basis that they picked gun.
502 - They're scum with

Alisae

, another gun who scumreads BOTH you and

Wheme

.

You're also saying that your shot isn't even yours, even though

Wheme

is a scumread for you. Who else would you shoot?

After reading your ISO, I'm even more confused why

Wheme

townreads you, and why you're both not very talkative to the other when a lot of discussion is about both of your slots in some form or direction.

--
I had another important reason but my brain flopped.

[Taly]

Dear

Aristeia

,

Vanity votes bad

Sincerely,
Someone who vanity votes a lot

[Taly]

half-expected

ari

to vote me when she returns, id be disappointed otherwise I DESERVE SUSPICION.

[Taly]

fuck akathisia, completely unrelated to this but fuck akathisia

[Taly]

Dunn

, is it fair to say your posts are very passive and provide little to the discussion even though there's a decent amount of volume to them?

No I don't believe that is correct. I do believe my posts move the discussion forward. They're not passive because they are asking new things.

reads please

[Taly]

Alisae

- Town

Gamma Emerald

- Town

Theta Alpine

- Town

Titus

- Slight town

Malakittens

- Slight town

Celebloki

- Null town

The Bulge

- NA

mfeathers

- NA

Aristeia

- idfk

Dunnstral

- Nullscum

WhemeStar

- Nullscum

SirCakez

- Nullscum

Enchant

- Scum

Probably good to start ISO grouping in

Dunn/Wheme/Enchant/Cakez

since those are my bottom.

[Taly]

With so many roses, there doesn't seem to be a need to be secretive about claims this time, maybe.

Assumption "All mafia and some townie picked guns" asking for self.

Picking rose as scum is hard to justify.

Dunn

and

Enchant

open with similar themes,

Dunn

saying there isn't a need to be secretive and

Enchant

goes on to push for massclaim after making an assumption that mafia cannot be rose.

VOTE: Celebloki

Bad vibes

Noted

VOTE: malakittens
Still confused and kinda bothered by the suggestion that I’m skilled with mech, I can handle it but I would not say I’ve been pivotal to helping win a game that way

How does that make them mafia as opposed to just being wrong?

+1 good question actually

i do not think there are any advantages to doing so

maybe

i mean i could see some but
without trackers or anything like that there is no way to prove someone could visit if we have less then four people claim gun

The advantage is that we know there are 10 roses and 4 guns:

If mafia fake claim rose we know we can trust the gun claims

If mafia true claim gun they can be held accountable for where they are targeting

The downsides to claiming is that mafia can then target the guns. And the knowledge of guns today may not be helpful.

I like this point arguing against massclaim.

I think massclaim is good, so we force everyone who claimed gun to shot each other, because i don't believe Mafia didnt Went full 3 gun fun.

Wheme is conftown, unless atleast one gun claims.

Enchant

posits

Wheme

conftown with the mafia = all gun route, and relays a plan for all the guns to circle kill the other... I don't understand the town-motivation behind this. I know with

Alisae

there's an explicit scumread outside of their idea about how guns function in this game, but this feels like it could be

Enchant

wanting role information to tailor potential NKs. The town-motivation is less straight-forward if any is present, especially because the

Wheme

townread here was false.

I think massclaim is good, so we force everyone who claimed gun to shot each other, because i don't believe Mafia didnt Went full 3 gun fun.

Wheme is conftown, unless atleast one gun claims.

I never would go for that if I have a gun. I would shoot my reads period.

I smell you don't have it.

This actually does ping a bit like rolefishing, tbh. Kind of wondering if

Bulge

picked up on that.

I think after Wheme claimed gun, all 3 other guns are mafia and it's all pointless.

Weird logic loop, even with this read being false, it's positing that only town gun would claim.

i want to move off rvs but no one has scumpinged me yet so someone do that please

Fluffy posting

i do think the guns/roses claim discussion over the past few pages has been generally town-motivated

I didn't agree when I first read that

ok so why did you decide to pick rose?

Because it implues mafia need to remove me at some point.

The post preceding the lie that

Ari

caught.

I think massclaim is good, so we force everyone who claimed gun to shot each other, because i don't believe Mafia didnt Went full 3 gun fun.

Wheme is conftown, unless atleast one gun claims.

I never would go for that if I have a gun. I would shoot my reads period.

I smell you don't have it.

I might. I might not. Why are you speculating?

Because i have nothing to do.

Likelyhood you picked rose as town are 90%.
Maybe higher.

It seems you started this conversation assuming that Titus is town by saying you believe they are a rose. I think this is potentially weird, you have a strange perspective here.

See, this is actually a take I agree with on

Dunnstral

, their diction just feels off to me. I'd figure a townie would have a more articulate thought than "strange perspective" and actually do something with teeth here, like a vote or harder push.

:/
I just stated scum can also win if all town roses are dead
That’s been a thing in every run of this setup

I've never played this setup before but it just feels silly to me to pick rose as mafia - I'd pick gun every time

I am inclined to agree with this. Extra kills are more powerful for mafia than for town. On the other hand I've played a run of this setup where town only had 3 roses at the start and it felt pretty doomed.

The reasoning here makes sense, even though I disagree with the very premise that mafia are always going to be guns here.

The other game with 3 roses was a mafia win, after all.

I thought enchants answer was a banger

Ima shoot Ali I think

Wondering where

Ali

came from here.

Ok you got me i did in fact pick gun.

I pretended i townread wheme, so i can shot wheme in the face without being shot back but i guess it's blatant i always pick gun.


Bruh game.


So yeah. Crosskill?

The post where

Enchant's

stance on his claim and

Wheme

completely 180

VOTE: enchant
looks like a flailing wolf to me, this feels notably different from just normal Enchant scumminess

Feels slightly superficial read here, like I can see anyone coming up with this as a justification to vote

Enchant

. Am I being too harsh on

Cakez

?

Of course you can't let me shot wheme, until she wastes gun on some random townie, uhum.

I see this as attempt to powerlim me so Wheme can say "oh i joked i am in fact rose" on D2.

Posits that

Wheme

will waste a gun, but not that they're scum?

Also says that the votes are an attempt to powerlim so

Wheme

can say they lied about their claim... I am wondering what made

Enchant

want to do massclaim if they presumed who would claim is lying.

Why would you shoot Wheme?

Fair question, I'm not sure an

Enchant

-partner would give attention to this publically

Why would you shoot Wheme?

Cuz i am only town gun.

I don't believe one scum picked rose.

Same justification, only town gun can be

Enchant

... which is ???? Completely wild assessment to me. How can nobody else conceive the idea of town-gun if they themselves do?

Actually... if you are a town gun, why are you claiming instead of just shooting at night?

BeCaUsE EnChAnT NeVeR pIcK rOsE aS tOwN.

I TRIED to hide until i get my shot, i just realised that if i get wagoned to E-1, people just disbelieve me and it's blatant i am lying anyway.


So if pick rose, everyone push me for picking rose and when i do pick gun, everyone still push me, because they can't bear mind that i do have gun.

Literally unplayable.

It's not about the gun, it's about how you interacted regarding the claims and your reads.

yeah, I don't understand the drive for the D1 claims, seems senseless to me

At this point it is likely too late

The gun claims are likely either both town or 1 town 1 mafia

Mafia know everybody else is a rose

Town /maybe/ has 1 more gun hidden, assuming one of the current claims is mafia.

Hmmmmm...

On one hand, I like this post superficially because

Dunn

is giving a very real possibility of TvT here. But they aren't really doing much to caution the current suspicion alongside this. I also wonder if this post can come from an informed perspective.

I think enchant is town

K.

i think you are mafia w/ enchant

This seems unlikely

Tbh,

Dunn

, how has your

Wheme/Enchant

reads evolved and do you really think an

Enchant

flip is good here?

Personally I still think we forget about an Enchant or Wheme wagon until D2 and instead anyone pushing for an Enchant or Wheme wagon are good fodder for a wagon.

VOTE: SirCakez

Why?

Like I mentioned before, I don't feel that

Celebloki

said much to suggest

Enchant/Wheme

cannot be scum, so this feels like a purposeful counterwagon. The intentions behind that are less clear.

Regarding 261 by Malakittens I don't think Enchant was ever scumread for "picking gun". I do believe the reasons were: "enchant is claiming rose but would pick gun as town", "enchant is being deceptive", and "enchant is a flailing wolf". In light of that I find post 261 pretty suspicious.

DO YOU GUYS WANT TO FIND ANSWER URSELF OR WANT MY HELP

Yes

Ali’s reasoning is very weird

Still want you to explain this

I have so many thoughts I don’t want to share I am a genius

K...

Wheme's

posts aren't really giving much and that's intentional. Really helping me sort that slot... /s

VOTE: The Bulge

Interesting, I wonder where this came from, and also where the feels on

Celebloki

dissipated, was it because

Celebloki

wanted to counterwagon him and

Enchant

?

Is this your defense of eliminating

Wheme

over yourself D1...?

If you eliminate Wheme, who i will shot?!

Just let crosskill happen, fools.

Never convinced by your reasoning for killing

Wheme

Idk, Titus maybe.

K? More focus on

Titus

Enchant picking gun is NIA for me
I don’t really see why people are scumrrading enchant for it

Can you point to somebody scumreading Enchant for picking gun.

Mind meld
No one thinks that's why Enchant is scummy.

Cakez

parroting

Dunn

on something I actually had the similar perception as

Celeblok

I feel like Enchant and Wheme both being scum is almost like *too easy*? Like I feel like they would have solved this shit in scum chat or something by now. And they are both a little naturally scummy I think

I never really like these types of posts. It always feels like an easy out to backpedal when a read is correct or incorrect when convenient. The whole idea about scum solving this in their chat is WIFOM. The benefit of the doubt that

Cakez

supposes here is muddled by the previous statements, so I'm left feeling less sure on what

Cakez's

actual read of

Enchant

and

Wheme

and their wagons are.

Ali want to vote bulge with me

Another

Bulge

reference with no clear prompt from the other ISOs I've grouped here.

[Taly]

Conclusions from 509

- Able to see

Dunn

with some town motive. +Town
- Grievance with

Cakez's

posting strengthens -Town
-

Celebloki

,

Titus

,

Aristeia

,

Alisae

, and

The Bulge

are good next potential ISO groupees. Namely

Celebloki

and

Bulge

at the moment.
-

Wheme

does not make anymore sense to me, except for perhaps why they do not scumread

Celebloki

~Null
- I don't feel my suspicion on

Enchant

was absolved. ~Scum

[Taly]

So when I do ask for people to engage with me, I'm told that I should provide my own thoughts instead and that I am unproductive.

But when I do, I'm also subject to dismissal by people saying I'm showboating.

I'm being reminded why I don't play mafia often.

My 503 is a really good post to engage on if you want to dissuade me,

Enchant

.

[Taly]

Can someone do something other than disparage and trivialize my motivation.

[Taly]

When did I pressure you into claiming? I've been against claiming in the first place.

[Taly]

VOTE: SirCakez

[Taly]

Cakez look at 509 can't elaborate rn

Figured after the ISO dive that I wanted to ohsh elsewhere but wanted Enchant to reply, and I can see what Titus and Ari mean

Also Ari acknowledge me akHxkdjsks

[Taly]

Gamma's a bad vote too.

Is this going to be a herding cats game?

How do you feel about Ari and Cakez?

[Taly]

Is it wrong to think Wheme self-resolves?

[Taly]

Oh I'm curious what you thought about my rambling in 432 and reads in 508. Or my conclusion of ISO grouping in 510. Just general takes on my game thoughts since you prompted for them.

I think I'd actually put you as town at this point. Namely because I have a better feel for how you process the game, and the tonal ping I was unsure about has mellowed.

[Taly]

Hi kill enchant ok bai

replying to

titus

and

aristeia's

reasons not to will help make this happen

- Able to see Dunn with some town motive. +Town

what town motive do you see in Dunnstral?

it is superficial but i feel that his questions have been generally solid ones

tbh i looked back at my ISO group dive and read his posts and kind of reverted to suspicion again... especially in the world that

enchant

is town, and im probing that atm.

Can I get sheeped please

why

bulge

? oh great genius of mafia, share us your wisdom

I feel like Ali is conf town

But idk if I wanna vote enchant

you were saying he was town, what would have made you think of voting him?

Regardless of alignment you flip, alicae will coast on "i would't claim on my place if i was scum" until end game.

That's why all guns should just die. I already told how it can be achieved.

Enchant

, independent on the guns, how do you read

wheme

and

alisae

?

[Taly]

idk i want both

dunn

and

cakez

flipped, they have failed the vibe check

[Taly]

enchant/wheme/alisae

is probably resolving in some form independent of how D1 goes

but also... in the reality they're all town, this just seems really dumb to not gatekeep and prevent them from murdering the other.

i really dont think its too odd for a whole mafia team to be rose.

[Taly]

Rose is not a secure flavorclaim, but much like how the guns want each other dead, rose is a protown role that could be leveraged for credit.

Namely, if I think it's in anyway possible that

alisae/wheme/enchant

has at least 2 (maybe 3) town, I have some grievances with crosskills.

[Taly]

The Enchant wagon is stupid. Enchant's actions flow from his belief. It's also opportunistic.

You seem strong on this, were all the votes on the wagon bad? And independent of the votes, what is your read on

Enchant

?

[Taly]

I want to push everyone to spew reads on Enchant/Wheme/Alisae.

I'm not convinced that any specific shot is a town-controlled one unless there is more input from the playerlist.

[Taly]

partial revision of my 509 so my stance is clear

i want to move off rvs but no one has scumpinged me yet so someone do that please

this is fluff disguised as wanting to do more

i do think the guns/roses claim discussion over the past few pages has been generally town-motivated

i dont think we got much closer to finding scum aside from a select few

*cough*

alisae

VOTE: enchant
looks like a flailing wolf to me, this feels notably different from just normal Enchant scumminess

vague

more enchant votes only comment i have

fluff but less convicted than

aliase

I feel like Enchant and Wheme both being scum is almost like *too easy*? Like I feel like they would have solved this shit in scum chat or something by now. And they are both a little naturally scummy I think

very reachy

I haven't ruled out

Wheme/Enchant

TvS or even TvT thus far.

I feel like Enchant and Wheme both being scum is almost like *too easy*? Like I feel like they would have solved this shit in scum chat or something by now. And they are both a little naturally scummy I think

I recommend providing an alternative if you think people are misled here

I don't want an alternative I want Enchant lol

after stating that

Enchant/Wheme

may be incorrect, continues to want only 1 of the 2 options gone.

I think Enchant's just town here because he sounds incredibly annoyed in a really exasperated way that he really only gets when he's town getting run up.

The tone is giving me scum mad their plans blew up in their face not town anger

i want to know the plan too

[Taly]

*pushes alisae and wheme into a pile of pillows*

more votes on

my

wagon,

cakez

[Taly]

That is what I thought on

Dunn

at the time but did not feel like poking at it relative to sorting

ali/wheme/Enchant

Pisskop

entrance checks out to me

Like I've been wrong about

Cakez

more than I've been wrong about

Dunn

.

I'm not very familiar with

Bulge

.

[Taly]

I genuinely have more than 1 solid scumresd and I'm not paranoid.

That's a feat for me D1.

Is it trivial who to lim over

Cakez/Dunn

? I know people have doubts with

Cakez

. I can compromise but I want to hear

Titus

on

Dunn

I'm virtually taking turns sheeping townreads with wagons lmao

[Taly]

I wish there is a way to compromise with

Alisae/Wheme

, they seem very bent on their votes.

Vanity votes are not viable, D1 ends soon

[Taly]

Cakez feels like a bystander that, unlike Dunnstral, actually moves their vote around to places that people have already focused on. This might be a playstyle observation though.

can you talk about your cakez read? i don't quite understand what you're saying here, but cakez has been solely focused on enchant, so idk what this is about moving votes around. i get the bystander thing but not the rest.

Oh right I misread that he moved his vote somewhere but that isn't true. I realized when I did the ISO

I mainly don't think his reads have nuance so far and he's mainly be present in the thread to support an

Enchant

, flip-- this seems mafia motivated because he posits specifically that it is too easy for ot to be

enchant/wheme

but continues to tunnel. It feels easy to feign

Cakez's

posts as an informed perspective interested in profiting from a TvS or TvT.

[Taly]

Bulge

can you succinctly explain your beef with

Ari

?

Pisskop

, how do you feel about the more active players?

[Taly]

I tried to think. Hard. But sorry no, i just can't look at wheme/alisae without knowledge about guns. I just know one/two are evil. That's it.

Only way to convince me that mafia picked two or more roses is for both them to flip town. But at that point, it would't matter because i will be either dead or broken.

If i HAD to pick, i kill Wheme.

How do you feel about

Dunn/Cakez

? They're currently the only viable alternatives to you.

[Taly]

Ah meta, I don't even know what mine is anymore
-
I don't get much from

Gamma/Bulge

posting at the moment

[Taly]

Can I tempt a gun holder to shoot whichever

Dunn/Cakez

is not eliminated today?

[Taly]

The Enchant wagon is stupid. Enchant's actions flow from his belief. It's also opportunistic.

You seem strong on this, were all the votes on the wagon bad? And independent of the votes, what is your read on

Enchant

?

My argument is largely on the play. :/ Not sure you understood. Please reread.

I see what you mean now.

How are you feeling about this game so far? I've detected frustration or something not too far from it

[Taly]

Lmao how did that emoji get there

I'd GIF a toucan with police gear but I'm technically working

[Taly]

[Taly]

Omg that isn't showing

[Taly]

I'm depressed IRL. It will likely impact my play.

[Taly]

pisskop

i just remembered you were in my first mafia game lmao that was almost a decade ago

oh god why did i point that out

[Taly]

While it has not been lost on me that

Dunn

wagon gained more interest not long after my

Cakez

vote, reading into it seems unhelpful right now... doubly so because I want that elimination too.

Can someone provide rationale of

Cakez

town-motivation?

[Taly]

I get where you're coming from

Alisae

but I think

Titus

is in a different headspace than typical, so I'm giving her the benefit of the doubt.

[Taly]

v/la until wednesday for personal reasons

i did try to dive dunn and bulge and idk
both feel like lhf and not scum

Do you have a concrete scumread?

[Taly]

not me about to tell

alisae

there's a team of 4 mafia...

[Taly]

not me about to tell

alisae

there's a team of 4 mafia...

to clarify, this is me realizing there are 3 mafia

[Taly]

you really think

cakez/dunn

are T/T...?

[Taly]

ali

are you doing burden of proficiency on me

i wouldnt be mad (in fact, flattered), but im really curious if you are

[Taly]

it appears im on this island alone thinking

cakez

is scum

[Taly]

ha, ill take that

[Taly]

I would vote Dunn w/ Ari D2 after Wheme and Enchant were resolved but if both of those flip mafia I think the way Dunn engaged with both of them is good enough for me to write him off as town. If Wheme and Enchant are both mafia, then he distinctly does not feel in on what is going on. It's probably not enough to say that he's more town than anyone else tho and I'm only really looking at this slot in the event I'm given evidence via flip to prove that I'm wrong.

ari

also defended

enchant

regarding the exasperation feeling like town, and i lean on agreeing there

do you think

enchant

AtE is still scum?

pedit

I'd think you're pretty familiar with me

Alisae

, well, relatively more than a lot of people

[Taly]

hmmmm.

enchant!scum

My reads would change a fair deal. -> I'd feel resolved about the guns and this somewhat solves more than one slot, great outcome. (+2)

dunn!town

My reads would change a fair deal. -> I contributed to mislim and this also puts several townreads into question, bad outcome. (-1)

cakez!town

My reads would change a bit. -> I literally deathtunneled a townie... and it doubtcasts my worldview of the game, shit outcome. (-2)

enchant!town

My reads will not change much. -> I'd feel like D1 was wasted trying to kill guns and will be more sus of the rest of that pool AND several townreads currently, awful outcome. (-3)

dunn!scum

My reads will not change much. -> I will actually feel better about my townreads and glad scum was caught, strong outcome. (+3)

cakez!scum

My reads would hardly change at all. -> I will feel vindicated AF but do not know what this means for other reads... decent outcome. (+1)

just as i thought

enchant

>

dunn

>

cakez

if i went based off flow of information.

+2

dunn

outcome outlook
-1 for

enchant/cakez

[Taly]

enchant

- informative

dunn

- hollistic

cakez

- confidence

ive determined the 3 Taly Routes of D1.

[Taly]

Never said I was a strong townie because of my reads ;P

Mmmm. This is when I start to overcomplicate things in my brain.

[Taly]

I wanted Cakez to at least reply before this but

UNVOTE:

I don't think it's happening, nor is it ideal in both possible scenarios relative to

dunn/enchant

, especially as others feel better with

cakez

, that can't all be misted town or defending buddies, if any.

[Taly]

Alisae

our biggest worldview clash in this game is

Titus

so maybe sorting that is a good thing to do rn

[Taly]

Why do you feel so confident with

ari

? Even if

Enchant

flipped town?

[Taly]

They need loudspeakers,

Gamma

[Taly]

You can be more detailed with me

[Taly]

I'm going to be real candid here

ali

why should I not worry that you and

ari

are SvS?

The thought has been in the back of my mind since 432

[Taly]

You sure you will?

[Taly]

I'll take a breather from this thread for tonight

[Taly]

Fuck it

VOTE: WhemeStar

[Taly]

And no even though I'm sedated I am still wanting to mafia

[Taly]

For what it's worth

Ari

I was probably going to go back to

Dunn

if it came between him and

Enchant

.

I just have actual justification for town on

Enchant

that holds up better than the other two

[Taly]

If we flip all town, then you probably vote Taly, because only Taly could get bright idea of getting roses as scum.

Maybe with Titus.

I both feel weirdly seen and also exasperated that it is incriminating. Don't weaponize my brain against me, it already fucks me up enough.

And no I'm not mafia, I don't actually know what I would've picked because informed!Taly and uninformed!Taly are two completely different toucans.

[Taly]

Most people don't read me well

[Taly]

Spoiler:

With so many roses, there doesn't seem to be a need to be secretive about claims this time, maybe.

Assumption "All mafia and some townie picked guns" asking for self.

Picking rose as scum is hard to justify.

Dunn

and

Enchant

open with similar themes,

Dunn

saying there isn't a need to be secretive and

Enchant

goes on to push for massclaim after making an assumption that mafia cannot be rose.

VOTE: Celebloki

Bad vibes

Noted

VOTE: malakittens
Still confused and kinda bothered by the suggestion that I’m skilled with mech, I can handle it but I would not say I’ve been pivotal to helping win a game that way

How does that make them mafia as opposed to just being wrong?

+1 good question actually

i do not think there are any advantages to doing so

maybe

i mean i could see some but
without trackers or anything like that there is no way to prove someone could visit if we have less then four people claim gun

The advantage is that we know there are 10 roses and 4 guns:

If mafia fake claim rose we know we can trust the gun claims

If mafia true claim gun they can be held accountable for where they are targeting

The downsides to claiming is that mafia can then target the guns. And the knowledge of guns today may not be helpful.

I like this point arguing against massclaim.

I think massclaim is good, so we force everyone who claimed gun to shot each other, because i don't believe Mafia didnt Went full 3 gun fun.

Wheme is conftown, unless atleast one gun claims.

Enchant

posits

Wheme

conftown with the mafia = all gun route, and relays a plan for all the guns to circle kill the other... I don't understand the town-motivation behind this. I know with

Alisae

there's an explicit scumread outside of their idea about how guns function in this game, but this feels like it could be

Enchant

wanting role information to tailor potential NKs. The town-motivation is less straight-forward if any is present, especially because the

Wheme

townread here was false.

I think massclaim is good, so we force everyone who claimed gun to shot each other, because i don't believe Mafia didnt Went full 3 gun fun.

Wheme is conftown, unless atleast one gun claims.

I never would go for that if I have a gun. I would shoot my reads period.

I smell you don't have it.

This actually does ping a bit like rolefishing, tbh. Kind of wondering if

Bulge

picked up on that.

I think after Wheme claimed gun, all 3 other guns are mafia and it's all pointless.

Weird logic loop, even with this read being false, it's positing that only town gun would claim.

i want to move off rvs but no one has scumpinged me yet so someone do that please

Fluffy posting

i do think the guns/roses claim discussion over the past few pages has been generally town-motivated

I didn't agree when I first read that

ok so why did you decide to pick rose?

Because it implues mafia need to remove me at some point.

The post preceding the lie that

Ari

caught.

I think massclaim is good, so we force everyone who claimed gun to shot each other, because i don't believe Mafia didnt Went full 3 gun fun.

Wheme is conftown, unless atleast one gun claims.

I never would go for that if I have a gun. I would shoot my reads period.

I smell you don't have it.

I might. I might not. Why are you speculating?

Because i have nothing to do.

Likelyhood you picked rose as town are 90%.
Maybe higher.

It seems you started this conversation assuming that Titus is town by saying you believe they are a rose. I think this is potentially weird, you have a strange perspective here.

See, this is actually a take I agree with on

Dunnstral

, their diction just feels off to me. I'd figure a townie would have a more articulate thought than "strange perspective" and actually do something with teeth here, like a vote or harder push.

:/
I just stated scum can also win if all town roses are dead
That’s been a thing in every run of this setup

I've never played this setup before but it just feels silly to me to pick rose as mafia - I'd pick gun every time

I am inclined to agree with this. Extra kills are more powerful for mafia than for town. On the other hand I've played a run of this setup where town only had 3 roses at the start and it felt pretty doomed.

The reasoning here makes sense, even though I disagree with the very premise that mafia are always going to be guns here.

The other game with 3 roses was a mafia win, after all.

I thought enchants answer was a banger

Ima shoot Ali I think

Wondering where

Ali

came from here.

Ok you got me i did in fact pick gun.

I pretended i townread wheme, so i can shot wheme in the face without being shot back but i guess it's blatant i always pick gun.


Bruh game.


So yeah. Crosskill?

The post where

Enchant's

stance on his claim and

Wheme

completely 180

VOTE: enchant
looks like a flailing wolf to me, this feels notably different from just normal Enchant scumminess

Feels slightly superficial read here, like I can see anyone coming up with this as a justification to vote

Enchant

. Am I being too harsh on

Cakez

?

Of course you can't let me shot wheme, until she wastes gun on some random townie, uhum.

I see this as attempt to powerlim me so Wheme can say "oh i joked i am in fact rose" on D2.

Posits that

Wheme

will waste a gun, but not that they're scum?

Also says that the votes are an attempt to powerlim so

Wheme

can say they lied about their claim... I am wondering what made

Enchant

want to do massclaim if they presumed who would claim is lying.

Why would you shoot Wheme?

Fair question, I'm not sure an

Enchant

-partner would give attention to this publically

Why would you shoot Wheme?

Cuz i am only town gun.

I don't believe one scum picked rose.

Same justification, only town gun can be

Enchant

... which is ???? Completely wild assessment to me. How can nobody else conceive the idea of town-gun if they themselves do?

Actually... if you are a town gun, why are you claiming instead of just shooting at night?

BeCaUsE EnChAnT NeVeR pIcK rOsE aS tOwN.

I TRIED to hide until i get my shot, i just realised that if i get wagoned to E-1, people just disbelieve me and it's blatant i am lying anyway.


So if pick rose, everyone push me for picking rose and when i do pick gun, everyone still push me, because they can't bear mind that i do have gun.

Literally unplayable.

It's not about the gun, it's about how you interacted regarding the claims and your reads.

yeah, I don't understand the drive for the D1 claims, seems senseless to me

At this point it is likely too late

The gun claims are likely either both town or 1 town 1 mafia

Mafia know everybody else is a rose

Town /maybe/ has 1 more gun hidden, assuming one of the current claims is mafia.

Hmmmmm...

On one hand, I like this post superficially because

Dunn

is giving a very real possibility of TvT here. But they aren't really doing much to caution the current suspicion alongside this. I also wonder if this post can come from an informed perspective.

I think enchant is town

K.

i think you are mafia w/ enchant

This seems unlikely

Tbh,

Dunn

, how has your

Wheme/Enchant

reads evolved and do you really think an

Enchant

flip is good here?

Personally I still think we forget about an Enchant or Wheme wagon until D2 and instead anyone pushing for an Enchant or Wheme wagon are good fodder for a wagon.

VOTE: SirCakez

Why?

Like I mentioned before, I don't feel that

Celebloki

said much to suggest

Enchant/Wheme

cannot be scum, so this feels like a purposeful counterwagon. The intentions behind that are less clear.

Regarding 261 by Malakittens I don't think Enchant was ever scumread for "picking gun". I do believe the reasons were: "enchant is claiming rose but would pick gun as town", "enchant is being deceptive", and "enchant is a flailing wolf". In light of that I find post 261 pretty suspicious.

DO YOU GUYS WANT TO FIND ANSWER URSELF OR WANT MY HELP

Yes

Ali’s reasoning is very weird

Still want you to explain this

I have so many thoughts I don’t want to share I am a genius

K...

Wheme's

posts aren't really giving much and that's intentional. Really helping me sort that slot... /s

VOTE: The Bulge

Interesting, I wonder where this came from, and also where the feels on

Celebloki

dissipated, was it because

Celebloki

wanted to counterwagon him and

Enchant

?

Is this your defense of eliminating

Wheme

over yourself D1...?

If you eliminate Wheme, who i will shot?!

Just let crosskill happen, fools.

Never convinced by your reasoning for killing

Wheme

Idk, Titus maybe.

K? More focus on

Titus

Enchant picking gun is NIA for me
I don’t really see why people are scumrrading enchant for it

Can you point to somebody scumreading Enchant for picking gun.

Mind meld
No one thinks that's why Enchant is scummy.

Cakez

parroting

Dunn

on something I actually had the similar perception as

Celeblok

I feel like Enchant and Wheme both being scum is almost like *too easy*? Like I feel like they would have solved this shit in scum chat or something by now. And they are both a little naturally scummy I think

I never really like these types of posts. It always feels like an easy out to backpedal when a read is correct or incorrect when convenient. The whole idea about scum solving this in their chat is WIFOM. The benefit of the doubt that

Cakez

supposes here is muddled by the previous statements, so I'm left feeling less sure on what

Cakez's

actual read of

Enchant

and

Wheme

and their wagons are.

Ali want to vote bulge with me

Another

Bulge

reference with no clear prompt from the other ISOs I've grouped here.

So Taly you go over my iso here. Where am I repeating what other people are saying here?

As for your response to 205 I never called Enchant mafia, never voted for Enchant. I see now that Alisae has claimed gun so that may change as I read up.

This oversimplifies why I scumread you. A lot of it is that you're very passive in this game in a way I don't think is natural.

As for misrepping you, sorry about that. ISO dive probably got me mixed up.

Conclusions from 509

- Able to see

Dunn

with some town motive. +Town
- Grievance with

Cakez's

posting strengthens -Town
-

Celebloki

,

Titus

,

Aristeia

,

Alisae

, and

The Bulge

are good next potential ISO groupees. Namely

Celebloki

and

Bulge

at the moment.
-

Wheme

does not make anymore sense to me, except for perhaps why they do not scumread

Celebloki

~Null
- I don't feel my suspicion on

Enchant

was absolved. ~Scum

idk i want both

dunn

and

cakez

flipped, they have failed the vibe check

Huh. What is changing your opinion of me back and forth?

I did like some things you said, I just don't think any of it is strongly AI one way or another, or potentially informed.

[Taly]

We are at E2 methinks, speak now or forever hold your peace

[Taly]

Yes I told Ali that I claimed becuase they said it makes me an ic

Do you really think I believed that it made me an IC?

VOTE: SirCakez

Game is more clear now for me.

I am randomshooting this night. Alicae will live and suffer.

*aggressive malding*

[Taly]

This is boring me

Do you want to talk about something else?

The reason I didn't point to a specific post is because I don't get new information from what you've said on a level outside of sorting people, at least with earlier posts that was related to mech discussion.

[Taly]

enchant

don't lolshoot me I have cookies

[Taly]

[Taly]

This is boring me

Do you want to talk about something else?

Not really. Your reasons for suspecting me seem inconsistent between posts, and I don't think you can back up what you said was your reason for suspecting me in 432.

I just did back up my reason because it's a feeling I get from your posts at large.

And what of me having an inconsistent view? It hasn't changed the fact that I townread the majority of the playerlist more than you in some capacity or feel that your posts warrant a push.

[Taly]

You cherry picked 802 to where it doesn't show my progression of your read.

[Taly]

My read* It's early

[Taly]

Wait, my progression of my read on you*

[Taly]

Dude, I answered your question. Do you want me to quote post by post my bias on why mech isn't helpful and why I didn't see a clear stance from you in the beginning?

[Taly]

By stance, I'm not talking about massclaiming, I'm talking about reads

[Taly]

Do you have more than 3 reads? Do you see value in talking about them?

[Taly]

wheme

what is your case on

bulge

[Taly]

Does it make sense for mafia!

Wheme

to keep their convicted townreads when in Elimination range?

I'm asking because it would be true for me but apparently others have more experience or read him differently

[Taly]

enchant

don't lolshoot me I have cookies

"There's nothing you can't take from enemy dead body."
~ Sun Tzu, Art of the Gun

That line only makes sense if you're scum man

Gottem

[Taly]

Unless one of enchant or alisae is scum but I think both they’re play makes sense from a town gun pov

You've got 6 votes, at least 3 are town. You townread

Ari/Ali

who's the other town?

[Taly]

I don't follow your logic

Wheme

You can still bait an NK with guns present, you just might also bait another shot.

And it's very unlikely town guns and scum would end up on the same person to shoot...

[Taly]

Enchant

, real curious

Who do you think would be a mafia rose

It's very likely at least 1 exists.

[Taly]

Can we agree that even if I’m really dumb there’s 0% chance I ever claim gun if I’m actually a gun especially mafia gun so dunn thinking I’m gun is really weird

Why is your argument about being rose and not town?

[Taly]

My point is that you're not functioning off a clear belief that you're town. I would think you'd be fighting the elimination.

[Taly]

Sure @

Wheme

Enchant

, why

Cakez

and not

Wheme

?

[Taly]

I think there's an argument that

Wheme

is town for their attitude but I can see it coming from scum as well.

I'm just unconvinced by their answers the past two pages. And it's really not a helpful town strategy to martyr for one's own ego.

If

Wheme

were town then the wagon

Ali/Ari/Gamma/Taly/??? Some other rando/Dunn

contains 1, likely 2 scum.

[Taly]

If it makes you feel better enchant is insanely good at reading me

Really though, if you're actually town, a readslist would be very effective moving forward.

[Taly]

Because if you're town with known stances then your flip is actually meaningful due to us having a confirmed reference of town with specific reads. In such a world, town is misled. You'd relieve the fallout of people falling into their biases with more information.

Personally, in that reality, I would not know what you thought and therefore no insight you had of value in this game could help me solve it.

[Taly]

I don't operate like how other players tend to do.

[Taly]

I think I'm so active people are shelving me. Hmm

But yes thank you for the reads. Thinking about my vote and what to think next.

[Taly]

gamma

hi I exist, you do too

Where is your brain at this game?

[Taly]

Gamma

town

[Taly]

Like I don't see scum!

Gamma

unvoting at all here.

[Taly]

Reads

Town

Alisae, Titus, Gamma,

Lean Town

pisskop, Enchant, Ari

Nulltown

Malakittens, Theta, Celeb

Lean Scum

Wheme

Scum

Cakez, Dunn

I'm wrong somewhere.

[Taly]

Blegh.

My top 2 townreads have absolutely opposite worldviews of the game.

Typical.

[Taly]

Maybe ISO each tier of reads starting from the top.

[Taly]

oh my god i am

eads

Town
Alisae, Titus, Gamma,

Lean Town
pisskop, Enchant, Ari

Nulltown
Malakittens, Theta, Celeb.

Bulge

Lean Scum
Wheme

Scum
Cakez, Dunn

I'm wrong somewhere.

[Taly]

Spoiler: An ISO dive explaining why I would go to ELO with Alisae, Titus, and Gamma

VOTE: Taly

Welcome back.

THE AUDACITY.

VOTE: gamma

FEAR ME
I AM MALA
HEAR ME
ROAR

lets let the mech wiz take a look at it

LETS GO TITUS AND GAMMA

FORMULATE.

I simulanteously got town and scum pings from this posting.

Mindmeld at the time but I leaned town ultimately

I have a question I wanna think about:
W/ the number of roses, is it worth making people who have guns claim them? I imagine this COULD be a good idea later but not right this minute.

Anyway I'ma go binge one piece goodbye

pocketed because of one piece

I have a question I wanna think about:
W/ the number of roses, is it worth making people who have guns claim them? I imagine this COULD be a good idea later but not right this minute.

Anyway I'ma go binge one piece goodbye

What is the proposed advantage here?

mid d1 it forces people to adjust their reads

i like this strat tbh because it forces read fluctuations, i wonder if

alisae

got better insights after eir claim.

What the fuck happened here xD I prepped a big intro post to kick off the day....but I missed the start of d1! Ftr I was expecting to start on n1 because that's how games start where I'm from.

Hello all! My name is Maggie and I'm new to the forums! Pleased to make y'all's acquaintances~

Right off the bat, let me specify that this isn't my first forum mafia game-far from it, actually! I actively play forumsite mafia on a different website, and I have a good amount of experience with irl mafia as well. So don't expect many beginner's "what the fuck is going on" questions from me!

That being said, I don't know what forum etiquette looks like around here, so lmk if I mess up somewhere or say something I'm not supposed to. The forumsite I'm coming from is a lot less strict than most and so if I missed a rule somewhere around here, feel free to PM me about it!

A few heads-up about how I play, though.
I'm a vomposter. (Vompost = >100 posts in a single game). I doubt I'll reach that many posts here, but be forewarned that I post a lot!
D1 shitposting. Probably won't do much here since on the other site I play on I know everyone really well and can thus meme with them, but I may do a little shitposting here and there.

I don't think I missed anything. Nice meeting you all and can't wait to play with everyone here!

Okay I feel complete now

welcome to the website

likelier town intro, i feel like scum could easily formulate a contrived thought about alignment either way here

VOTE: malakittens
Still confused and kinda bothered by the suggestion that I’m skilled with mech, I can handle it but I would not say I’ve been pivotal to helping win a game that way

How does that make them mafia as opposed to just being wrong?

I mainly voted to call attention back to that
UNVOTE:

I agree with Gamma. Malakittens putting so much emphasis on is two being mech is odd.

mfeathers, what site are you usually on? Mafiauniverse?

As for guns, they should be claimed after spending. It prevents fakes later and doesn't put a neon sign on who must die.

VOTE: Dunnstral

Too early to defend people.

Gamma

had a justified vote I feel because it was a perception about her that she didnt think was natural

Titus

equally so

mfeathers, about how many games have you played? What is the most complex setup you felt comfotable with? How would you describe your style (analytical, gut, etc.)?

Knowing

TItus'

join date on this site, this feels like a genuine attempt to understand a new player.

no actually
while it is a win condition
mafia do not have to kill all the roses to win
they still have their traditional win condition

Hmmm
Idk, I feel like there’s more complexity here than some people are suggesting, I just don’t have a good idea what exactly could be the case since I don’t know how scum would be thinking
I’ll just issue a blanket “let’s not devise any grand plans today”

fair

I want her to verify that

wanting

ari

to confirm a scumread on

enchant

from her own words, makes sense

UNVOTE:
Okay I can allow crosskill

VOTE: enchant

This literally happened one after the other... I really don't see

Alisae/Gamma

SvS ever here.

Someone's sus.

WhemeStar is down in my reads

Titus

clarified this was town* in a post after

I wonder who

Titus'

thought was sus here.

more enchant votes only comment i have

No that wagon should be Dunn for.

pocketed because of puns

gamma

are you misting me

I wish I was, unfortunately I’m just town

genuine, town

only town can be roses, right?

Scum can be rose

only town can be roses, right?

Scum and town can be guns or roses.

*notes post*

Both took the time explicitly to correct my perception of the game

Dunn

does this too but in a different context that is neither investigative or casual

I have literally no idea why Wheme made the decisions that he made do we just wanna kill Wheme D1 honestly? Because that seems par for the course for someone like Wheme.

I'm inclined to agree, he's pretty weak scum and he's never really shown interest in improving I think
VOTE: WhemeStar

ok u get a pass FOR NOW
VOTE: wheme

ali/gamma

both giving

enchant

a pass feels natural because they reach their conclusions independently

I have 7 townreads. I'm not saying who they are.
2 scumreads and they're both guns. They're publically known.
and everyone else is unsorted.

play more mafia plz ty

this aligns with what i know of town!

alisae

they tend to keep cards close to chest unless there is an explicit reason to do otherwise and are often already planning or know when that time is

Personally I still think we forget about an Enchant or Wheme wagon until D2 and instead anyone pushing for an Enchant or Wheme wagon are good fodder for a wagon.

VOTE: SirCakez

I still feel like this is trash logic
VOTE: Celebloki

I approached

Celeb

differently than a vote but I can see why this caught

Gamma's

attention, and it aligns with their perspective of how they use voting this game with

Mala/Wheme

there isnt really a cognitive dissonance in their play with several people at the moment which is +town

VOTE: enchant
i like enchant wagon more than wheme wagon

Like Ali town. Hate the reads.

not getting the vibe that

titus

is trying to pacify

alisae

here, seems honest.

Ari is falling off for me here because I feel like most of her responses to Bulge are just deflection

Mindmeld, similar thought at the time but didn't want to get involved... hence why I said their back and forth was unproductive.

Personally I still think we forget about an Enchant or Wheme wagon until D2 and instead anyone pushing for an Enchant or Wheme wagon are good fodder for a wagon.

VOTE: SirCakez

I still feel like this is trash logic
VOTE: Celebloki

VOTE: Cakez

wtf? Do you think I’m chainsawing Cakez, why us your vote a response to me voting Celeb?

I agree with the logic you feel is trash. I don't know about you yet but being oppositional to a bad take and sheeping a good one helps me read you.

sincere

more enchant votes only comment i have

This is the post that made me decide to go for Cakez over Ari or Ali. Ari started the push and has specific, very established reasons. Ali was engaged a bit in the claim talk and wanting to get rid of guns. Cakez piled on more so for meta'ing Enchant it seems. The vote also came in not long after Ali's. Maybe there was hope there'd be more momentum for a wagon to start that didn't. To me his vote was opportunistic and not from the same place as Ari or Ali.

At this point I'm not making a case on Cakez, I'm just trying a different direction than Enchant. I'll say it again so I'm not mis-represented. I am NOT saying I think Enchant is town and the gun claims are interesting choices to make. I tend to agree with Ali's statement that guns have to die at some point. My stance is just to save them for later.

Okay, that makes sense
VOTE: SirCakez

consistent concept around voting, also isn't tunneling or whimsically voting people

I'll claim N1 gun btw

this falls in line with what

Alisae

said in the beginning about mid-day claims for guns being useful for assessing read changes

considering

alisae

is more clear about reads from this point on makes this even more accurate and consistent with concept of mind

+town

I can shoot Wheme.
I see no reason why we don't just kill Enchant and I shoot Wheme.
I'm happy to get shot by mafia.

This resolves 3 players with guns.

while i may not entirely agree with this strat, it does seem motivated for town and

ali

is operating off a belief that they are town.

now,

alisae

is exceptional at projecting the self-belief of town even as scum, but i dont think theres a pro-scum agenda attached here.

Theta Alpine - I lean town
Dunnstral - I lean town
The Bulge - No read
SirCakez - town
Titus - No Read
Malakittens - town
Taly - No Read
WhemeStar - I want to flip it.
Aristeia - Town
Gamma Emerald - Town
Enchant - I want to flip it.
Celebloki - Probably posting from a town!motivated place.
mfeathers - I lean town

Consistent with my previous analysis of em above

what's your case for

wheme

ali

?

my case is that it doesn't matter because I'm shooting them at night

If Wheme doesn't die N1 it's because they're a N1 rose.

the thing is, i can get behind

enchant

flip, but im not convinced

wheme/enchant

are partners, so thats my hangup with your plan

which, ik i cannot stop you, but its a good idea that we are on the same page here.

they both get flipped regardless.
I have to get flipped at some point as well unless people want to bet the game on me being town.
No one that is a gun ever gets to stay alive in this game.
Too much incentive for mafia to want to pick up guns in this setup and all mafia are roses then they deserve to be rewarded for that decision.
As mafia you don't just throw away the chance at an extra kill. That's just something you don't do.

This game would probably be different if Enchant and Wheme were actually town picking gun and behaving in ways that are actually town. If the players felt townie, I would have probably kept my mouth shut about being a gun.
Wheme is distinctly not townie so they get flipped. If they flip town I won't feel bad because flipping Wheme is a very effective way to read Wheme in this gamestate. Townflip will still be valuable to me.
Enchant I dislike based on how they leveraged their claim. I think their play has a lot of wolf!motivation behind it. It can come from town, but the fact they're playing this way demands that they get flipped.

But I think I have many townreads that are just better. I still have a bunch of players I have no read on yet, but I can focus on reading those players once I get Wheme and Enchant flipped, as flipping both of those will make solving a lot easier for me in the future.

I genuinely liked that

Aliase

is taking a long, engagement full of questions from me during this point. Eir responses feel natural and they aren't dismissing what I say or ask.

This is a very pro-town behavior on paper.

Scumreads on Enchant and Wheme, townreads on Alisae, Bulge, and Ari, I think I TR you but I haven’t really thought about the big picture yet this game
I think I also feel good about Theta rn

VOTE: Enchant
I was voting Cakez because I wanted to give the Enchant/Wheme situation some space but that post from early on about clearing Wheme makes Enchant a lot more sus + Alisae claiming N1 gun alleviates the need to leave Enchant to shoot Wheme

E-3

(night fr and *nods at

gamma

post*)

It’s actually E-4 looking ay the VC
The game started with 14

Gamma's a bad vote too.

Is this going to be a herding cats game?

Exasperation, towny because it is imposing an expectation on how proficient town should be rather than blowing up at unpredicted or unfavorable responses.

I have a question on the hypothetical massclaim. How would the order be set?

dont love this. gamma has been sidelining a lot this game. page after page of d1 mechtalk always makes my eyes glaze over but at least it sometimes comes from earnest townies. i've accused many people before of intentionally distracting the thread with pointless mech, and i dont think that's what theta or even ari is doing here, but this gamma post does strike me as fuelling a big irrelevant fire in a game with short deadlines.

This feels like an excuse of a read, that’s nowhere near the limit of what I’ve done and responding to only that displeases me

I'm trying to follow

Gamma's

read on

Bulge

and having difficulty at this point, but I think the frustration here is sincere simply because I completely would be frustrated by

Bulge's

statement about my play.

Actually, this makes me a bit more suspicious of

Bulge

because I disagree with his premise. Seems like they've only tried to push and lash at players thus far.

I want to push everyone to spew reads on Enchant/Wheme/Alisae.

I'm not convinced that any specific shot is a town-controlled one unless there is more input from the playerlist.

All town

Genuinely helpful

I'm depressed IRL. It will likely impact my play.

The crux of why I give

Titus

a pass for low activity, which is why I'm unconvinced by

Alisae's

scumread.

Theta Alpine - feels town
Dunnstral - feels town enough to give a pass d1
The Bulge - feels town enough to give a pass d1
SirCakez - town
Titus - distinctly does not feel townie compared to the rest.
Malakittens - town
Taly - feels town enough to give a pass d1
WhemeStar - Is very much so not more townie than anyone who feels town.
Aristeia - town
Gamma Emerald - town
Enchant - is very much so not more townie than anyone who feels town.
Celebloki - town
pisskop - town

more detailed reads

ali

are you doing burden of proficiency on me

i wouldnt be mad (in fact, flattered), but im really curious if you are

I don't know how to deal with you but I know that I don't want to so I'm leaving you for later.

honest

it appears im on this island alone thinking

cakez

is scum

I think celeb and Titus agree?

Why do you feel so confident with

ari

? Even if

Enchant

flipped town?

I have a solid understanding of what her strengths and weaknesses are and I understand how to work with that.

it appears im on this island alone thinking

cakez

is scum

You are not.

like.
they're all literally just working with me here.

i struggle to see them trying to sway me, trying to dismiss or do anything but honest answering.

uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuh
you do realize that I am advocating for all of the guns to be flipped ya?
That includes me

this isnt survivalistic, which would've been the main argument against

alisae

wanting to kill off guns as mafia

they intend to die in some form and i dont think thats good payoff as scum with their role, so its town.

I mean there's 1 unclaimed gun that's probably mafia

Smh.

I agree that I don't quite agree with

Alisae

here

UNVOTE:
I think I’m not ready to end this yet

Already said why, but

Gamma

!scum tends to hang onto votes more I feel, especially as they have no scum-motivated reason (survivalistic, changing thread narrative) to break steam off a widely suspected slot.

[Taly]

Spoiler: An ISO dive explaining why I would go to ELO with Alisae, Titus, and Gamma

VOTE: Taly

Welcome back.

THE AUDACITY.

VOTE: gamma

FEAR ME
I AM MALA
HEAR ME
ROAR

lets let the mech wiz take a look at it

LETS GO TITUS AND GAMMA

FORMULATE.

I simulanteously got town and scum pings from this posting.

Mindmeld at the time but I leaned town ultimately

I have a question I wanna think about:
W/ the number of roses, is it worth making people who have guns claim them? I imagine this COULD be a good idea later but not right this minute.

Anyway I'ma go binge one piece goodbye

pocketed because of one piece

I have a question I wanna think about:
W/ the number of roses, is it worth making people who have guns claim them? I imagine this COULD be a good idea later but not right this minute.

Anyway I'ma go binge one piece goodbye

What is the proposed advantage here?

mid d1 it forces people to adjust their reads

i like this strat tbh because it forces read fluctuations, i wonder if

alisae

got better insights after eir claim.

What the fuck happened here xD I prepped a big intro post to kick off the day....but I missed the start of d1! Ftr I was expecting to start on n1 because that's how games start where I'm from.

Hello all! My name is Maggie and I'm new to the forums! Pleased to make y'all's acquaintances~

Right off the bat, let me specify that this isn't my first forum mafia game-far from it, actually! I actively play forumsite mafia on a different website, and I have a good amount of experience with irl mafia as well. So don't expect many beginner's "what the fuck is going on" questions from me!

That being said, I don't know what forum etiquette looks like around here, so lmk if I mess up somewhere or say something I'm not supposed to. The forumsite I'm coming from is a lot less strict than most and so if I missed a rule somewhere around here, feel free to PM me about it!

A few heads-up about how I play, though.
I'm a vomposter. (Vompost = >100 posts in a single game). I doubt I'll reach that many posts here, but be forewarned that I post a lot!
D1 shitposting. Probably won't do much here since on the other site I play on I know everyone really well and can thus meme with them, but I may do a little shitposting here and there.

I don't think I missed anything. Nice meeting you all and can't wait to play with everyone here!

Okay I feel complete now

welcome to the website

likelier town intro, i feel like scum could easily formulate a contrived thought about alignment either way here

VOTE: malakittens
Still confused and kinda bothered by the suggestion that I’m skilled with mech, I can handle it but I would not say I’ve been pivotal to helping win a game that way

How does that make them mafia as opposed to just being wrong?

I mainly voted to call attention back to that
UNVOTE:

I agree with Gamma. Malakittens putting so much emphasis on is two being mech is odd.

mfeathers, what site are you usually on? Mafiauniverse?

As for guns, they should be claimed after spending. It prevents fakes later and doesn't put a neon sign on who must die.

VOTE: Dunnstral

Too early to defend people.

Gamma

had a justified vote I feel because it was a perception about her that she didnt think was natural

Titus

equally so

mfeathers, about how many games have you played? What is the most complex setup you felt comfotable with? How would you describe your style (analytical, gut, etc.)?

Knowing

TItus'

join date on this site, this feels like a genuine attempt to understand a new player.

no actually
while it is a win condition
mafia do not have to kill all the roses to win
they still have their traditional win condition

Hmmm
Idk, I feel like there’s more complexity here than some people are suggesting, I just don’t have a good idea what exactly could be the case since I don’t know how scum would be thinking
I’ll just issue a blanket “let’s not devise any grand plans today”

fair

I want her to verify that

wanting

ari

to confirm a scumread on

enchant

from her own words, makes sense

UNVOTE:
Okay I can allow crosskill

VOTE: enchant

This literally happened one after the other... I really don't see

Alisae/Gamma

SvS ever here.

Someone's sus.

WhemeStar is down in my reads

Titus

clarified this was town* in a post after

I wonder who

Titus'

thought was sus here.

more enchant votes only comment i have

No that wagon should be Dunn for.

pocketed because of puns

gamma

are you misting me

I wish I was, unfortunately I’m just town

genuine, town

only town can be roses, right?

Scum can be rose

only town can be roses, right?

Scum and town can be guns or roses.

*notes post*

Both took the time explicitly to correct my perception of the game

Dunn

does this too but in a different context that is neither investigative or casual

I have literally no idea why Wheme made the decisions that he made do we just wanna kill Wheme D1 honestly? Because that seems par for the course for someone like Wheme.

I'm inclined to agree, he's pretty weak scum and he's never really shown interest in improving I think
VOTE: WhemeStar

ok u get a pass FOR NOW
VOTE: wheme

ali/gamma

both giving

enchant

a pass feels natural because they reach their conclusions independently

I have 7 townreads. I'm not saying who they are.
2 scumreads and they're both guns. They're publically known.
and everyone else is unsorted.

play more mafia plz ty

this aligns with what i know of town!

alisae

they tend to keep cards close to chest unless there is an explicit reason to do otherwise and are often already planning or know when that time is

Personally I still think we forget about an Enchant or Wheme wagon until D2 and instead anyone pushing for an Enchant or Wheme wagon are good fodder for a wagon.

VOTE: SirCakez

I still feel like this is trash logic
VOTE: Celebloki

I approached

Celeb

differently than a vote but I can see why this caught

Gamma's

attention, and it aligns with their perspective of how they use voting this game with

Mala/Wheme

there isnt really a cognitive dissonance in their play with several people at the moment which is +town

VOTE: enchant
i like enchant wagon more than wheme wagon

Like Ali town. Hate the reads.

not getting the vibe that

titus

is trying to pacify

alisae

here, seems honest.

Ari is falling off for me here because I feel like most of her responses to Bulge are just deflection

Mindmeld, similar thought at the time but didn't want to get involved... hence why I said their back and forth was unproductive.

Personally I still think we forget about an Enchant or Wheme wagon until D2 and instead anyone pushing for an Enchant or Wheme wagon are good fodder for a wagon.

VOTE: SirCakez

I still feel like this is trash logic
VOTE: Celebloki

VOTE: Cakez

wtf? Do you think I’m chainsawing Cakez, why us your vote a response to me voting Celeb?

I agree with the logic you feel is trash. I don't know about you yet but being oppositional to a bad take and sheeping a good one helps me read you.

sincere

more enchant votes only comment i have

This is the post that made me decide to go for Cakez over Ari or Ali. Ari started the push and has specific, very established reasons. Ali was engaged a bit in the claim talk and wanting to get rid of guns. Cakez piled on more so for meta'ing Enchant it seems. The vote also came in not long after Ali's. Maybe there was hope there'd be more momentum for a wagon to start that didn't. To me his vote was opportunistic and not from the same place as Ari or Ali.

At this point I'm not making a case on Cakez, I'm just trying a different direction than Enchant. I'll say it again so I'm not mis-represented. I am NOT saying I think Enchant is town and the gun claims are interesting choices to make. I tend to agree with Ali's statement that guns have to die at some point. My stance is just to save them for later.

Okay, that makes sense
VOTE: SirCakez

consistent concept around voting, also isn't tunneling or whimsically voting people

I'll claim N1 gun btw

this falls in line with what

Alisae

said in the beginning about mid-day claims for guns being useful for assessing read changes

considering

alisae

is more clear about reads from this point on makes this even more accurate and consistent with concept of mind

+town

I can shoot Wheme.
I see no reason why we don't just kill Enchant and I shoot Wheme.
I'm happy to get shot by mafia.

This resolves 3 players with guns.

while i may not entirely agree with this strat, it does seem motivated for town and

ali

is operating off a belief that they are town.

now,

alisae

is exceptional at projecting the self-belief of town even as scum, but i dont think theres a pro-scum agenda attached here.

Theta Alpine - I lean town
Dunnstral - I lean town
The Bulge - No read
SirCakez - town
Titus - No Read
Malakittens - town
Taly - No Read
WhemeStar - I want to flip it.
Aristeia - Town
Gamma Emerald - Town
Enchant - I want to flip it.
Celebloki - Probably posting from a town!motivated place.
mfeathers - I lean town

Consistent with my previous analysis of em above

what's your case for

wheme

ali

?

my case is that it doesn't matter because I'm shooting them at night

If Wheme doesn't die N1 it's because they're a N1 rose.

the thing is, i can get behind

enchant

flip, but im not convinced

wheme/enchant

are partners, so thats my hangup with your plan

which, ik i cannot stop you, but its a good idea that we are on the same page here.

they both get flipped regardless.
I have to get flipped at some point as well unless people want to bet the game on me being town.
No one that is a gun ever gets to stay alive in this game.
Too much incentive for mafia to want to pick up guns in this setup and all mafia are roses then they deserve to be rewarded for that decision.
As mafia you don't just throw away the chance at an extra kill. That's just something you don't do.

This game would probably be different if Enchant and Wheme were actually town picking gun and behaving in ways that are actually town. If the players felt townie, I would have probably kept my mouth shut about being a gun.
Wheme is distinctly not townie so they get flipped. If they flip town I won't feel bad because flipping Wheme is a very effective way to read Wheme in this gamestate. Townflip will still be valuable to me.
Enchant I dislike based on how they leveraged their claim. I think their play has a lot of wolf!motivation behind it. It can come from town, but the fact they're playing this way demands that they get flipped.

But I think I have many townreads that are just better. I still have a bunch of players I have no read on yet, but I can focus on reading those players once I get Wheme and Enchant flipped, as flipping both of those will make solving a lot easier for me in the future.

I genuinely liked that

Aliase

is taking a long, engagement full of questions from me during this point. Eir responses feel natural and they aren't dismissing what I say or ask.

This is a very pro-town behavior on paper.

Scumreads on Enchant and Wheme, townreads on Alisae, Bulge, and Ari, I think I TR you but I haven’t really thought about the big picture yet this game
I think I also feel good about Theta rn

VOTE: Enchant
I was voting Cakez because I wanted to give the Enchant/Wheme situation some space but that post from early on about clearing Wheme makes Enchant a lot more sus + Alisae claiming N1 gun alleviates the need to leave Enchant to shoot Wheme

E-3

(night fr and *nods at

gamma

post*)

It’s actually E-4 looking ay the VC
The game started with 14

Gamma's a bad vote too.

Is this going to be a herding cats game?

Exasperation, towny because it is imposing an expectation on how proficient town should be rather than blowing up at unpredicted or unfavorable responses.

I have a question on the hypothetical massclaim. How would the order be set?

dont love this. gamma has been sidelining a lot this game. page after page of d1 mechtalk always makes my eyes glaze over but at least it sometimes comes from earnest townies. i've accused many people before of intentionally distracting the thread with pointless mech, and i dont think that's what theta or even ari is doing here, but this gamma post does strike me as fuelling a big irrelevant fire in a game with short deadlines.

This feels like an excuse of a read, that’s nowhere near the limit of what I’ve done and responding to only that displeases me

I'm trying to follow

Gamma's

read on

Bulge

and having difficulty at this point, but I think the frustration here is sincere simply because I completely would be frustrated by

Bulge's

statement about my play.

Actually, this makes me a bit more suspicious of

Bulge

because I disagree with his premise. Seems like they've only tried to push and lash at players thus far.

I want to push everyone to spew reads on Enchant/Wheme/Alisae.

I'm not convinced that any specific shot is a town-controlled one unless there is more input from the playerlist.

All town

Genuinely helpful

I'm depressed IRL. It will likely impact my play.

The crux of why I give

Titus

a pass for low activity, which is why I'm unconvinced by

Alisae's

scumread.

Theta Alpine - feels town
Dunnstral - feels town enough to give a pass d1
The Bulge - feels town enough to give a pass d1
SirCakez - town
Titus - distinctly does not feel townie compared to the rest.
Malakittens - town
Taly - feels town enough to give a pass d1
WhemeStar - Is very much so not more townie than anyone who feels town.
Aristeia - town
Gamma Emerald - town
Enchant - is very much so not more townie than anyone who feels town.
Celebloki - town
pisskop - town

more detailed reads

ali

are you doing burden of proficiency on me

i wouldnt be mad (in fact, flattered), but im really curious if you are

I don't know how to deal with you but I know that I don't want to so I'm leaving you for later.

honest

it appears im on this island alone thinking

cakez

is scum

I think celeb and Titus agree?

Why do you feel so confident with

ari

? Even if

Enchant

flipped town?

I have a solid understanding of what her strengths and weaknesses are and I understand how to work with that.

it appears im on this island alone thinking

cakez

is scum

You are not.

like.
they're all literally just working with me here.

i struggle to see them trying to sway me, trying to dismiss or do anything but honest answering.

uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuh
you do realize that I am advocating for all of the guns to be flipped ya?
That includes me

this isnt survivalistic, which would've been the main argument against

alisae

wanting to kill off guns as mafia

they intend to die in some form and i dont think thats good payoff as scum with their role, so its town.

I mean there's 1 unclaimed gun that's probably mafia

Smh.

I agree that I don't quite agree with

Alisae

here

UNVOTE:
I think I’m not ready to end this yet

Already said why, but

Gamma

!scum tends to hang onto votes more I feel, especially as they have no scum-motivated reason (survivalistic, changing thread narrative) to break steam off a widely suspected slot.

like i get that a lot of this is just me saying

"tHeY TAlKeD tO mE"

because doing that shit is like crack for me in mafia and i like to assume good intentions

but ive seen them all as scum before... more than once...

i have hydra'd with

Titus

and

Alisae

and i have some familiarty with

gamma

in an out-of-mafia context, and am likely even more familiar with their scum!self than

titus/alisae

.

it just... like, id only entertain them as mafia if I'm grossly wrong with my scumreads and thats not unlikely to be realized until mid-game at least.

[Taly]

i will take the egg, tomato, and clown mask if i am wrong

[Taly]

@MOD, isn't Alisae voting Wheme?{/b]

[Taly]

Spoiler: An ISO dive explaining why I would go to ELO with Alisae, Titus, and Gamma

VOTE: Taly

Welcome back.

THE AUDACITY.

VOTE: gamma

FEAR ME
I AM MALA
HEAR ME
ROAR

lets let the mech wiz take a look at it

LETS GO TITUS AND GAMMA

FORMULATE.

I simulanteously got town and scum pings from this posting.

Mindmeld at the time but I leaned town ultimately

I have a question I wanna think about:
W/ the number of roses, is it worth making people who have guns claim them? I imagine this COULD be a good idea later but not right this minute.

Anyway I'ma go binge one piece goodbye

pocketed because of one piece

I have a question I wanna think about:
W/ the number of roses, is it worth making people who have guns claim them? I imagine this COULD be a good idea later but not right this minute.

Anyway I'ma go binge one piece goodbye

What is the proposed advantage here?

mid d1 it forces people to adjust their reads

i like this strat tbh because it forces read fluctuations, i wonder if

alisae

got better insights after eir claim.

What the fuck happened here xD I prepped a big intro post to kick off the day....but I missed the start of d1! Ftr I was expecting to start on n1 because that's how games start where I'm from.

Hello all! My name is Maggie and I'm new to the forums! Pleased to make y'all's acquaintances~

Right off the bat, let me specify that this isn't my first forum mafia game-far from it, actually! I actively play forumsite mafia on a different website, and I have a good amount of experience with irl mafia as well. So don't expect many beginner's "what the fuck is going on" questions from me!

That being said, I don't know what forum etiquette looks like around here, so lmk if I mess up somewhere or say something I'm not supposed to. The forumsite I'm coming from is a lot less strict than most and so if I missed a rule somewhere around here, feel free to PM me about it!

A few heads-up about how I play, though.
I'm a vomposter. (Vompost = >100 posts in a single game). I doubt I'll reach that many posts here, but be forewarned that I post a lot!
D1 shitposting. Probably won't do much here since on the other site I play on I know everyone really well and can thus meme with them, but I may do a little shitposting here and there.

I don't think I missed anything. Nice meeting you all and can't wait to play with everyone here!

Okay I feel complete now

welcome to the website

likelier town intro, i feel like scum could easily formulate a contrived thought about alignment either way here

VOTE: malakittens
Still confused and kinda bothered by the suggestion that I’m skilled with mech, I can handle it but I would not say I’ve been pivotal to helping win a game that way

How does that make them mafia as opposed to just being wrong?

I mainly voted to call attention back to that
UNVOTE:

I agree with Gamma. Malakittens putting so much emphasis on is two being mech is odd.

mfeathers, what site are you usually on? Mafiauniverse?

As for guns, they should be claimed after spending. It prevents fakes later and doesn't put a neon sign on who must die.

VOTE: Dunnstral

Too early to defend people.

Gamma

had a justified vote I feel because it was a perception about her that she didnt think was natural

Titus

equally so

mfeathers, about how many games have you played? What is the most complex setup you felt comfotable with? How would you describe your style (analytical, gut, etc.)?

Knowing

TItus'

join date on this site, this feels like a genuine attempt to understand a new player.

no actually
while it is a win condition
mafia do not have to kill all the roses to win
they still have their traditional win condition

Hmmm
Idk, I feel like there’s more complexity here than some people are suggesting, I just don’t have a good idea what exactly could be the case since I don’t know how scum would be thinking
I’ll just issue a blanket “let’s not devise any grand plans today”

fair

I want her to verify that

wanting

ari

to confirm a scumread on

enchant

from her own words, makes sense

UNVOTE:
Okay I can allow crosskill

VOTE: enchant

This literally happened one after the other... I really don't see

Alisae/Gamma

SvS ever here.

Someone's sus.

WhemeStar is down in my reads

Titus

clarified this was town* in a post after

I wonder who

Titus'

thought was sus here.

more enchant votes only comment i have

No that wagon should be Dunn for.

pocketed because of puns

gamma

are you misting me

I wish I was, unfortunately I’m just town

genuine, town

only town can be roses, right?

Scum can be rose

only town can be roses, right?

Scum and town can be guns or roses.

*notes post*

Both took the time explicitly to correct my perception of the game

Dunn

does this too but in a different context that is neither investigative or casual

I have literally no idea why Wheme made the decisions that he made do we just wanna kill Wheme D1 honestly? Because that seems par for the course for someone like Wheme.

I'm inclined to agree, he's pretty weak scum and he's never really shown interest in improving I think
VOTE: WhemeStar

ok u get a pass FOR NOW
VOTE: wheme

ali/gamma

both giving

enchant

a pass feels natural because they reach their conclusions independently

I have 7 townreads. I'm not saying who they are.
2 scumreads and they're both guns. They're publically known.
and everyone else is unsorted.

play more mafia plz ty

this aligns with what i know of town!

alisae

they tend to keep cards close to chest unless there is an explicit reason to do otherwise and are often already planning or know when that time is

Personally I still think we forget about an Enchant or Wheme wagon until D2 and instead anyone pushing for an Enchant or Wheme wagon are good fodder for a wagon.

VOTE: SirCakez

I still feel like this is trash logic
VOTE: Celebloki

I approached

Celeb

differently than a vote but I can see why this caught

Gamma's

attention, and it aligns with their perspective of how they use voting this game with

Mala/Wheme

there isnt really a cognitive dissonance in their play with several people at the moment which is +town

VOTE: enchant
i like enchant wagon more than wheme wagon

Like Ali town. Hate the reads.

not getting the vibe that

titus

is trying to pacify

alisae

here, seems honest.

Ari is falling off for me here because I feel like most of her responses to Bulge are just deflection

Mindmeld, similar thought at the time but didn't want to get involved... hence why I said their back and forth was unproductive.

Personally I still think we forget about an Enchant or Wheme wagon until D2 and instead anyone pushing for an Enchant or Wheme wagon are good fodder for a wagon.

VOTE: SirCakez

I still feel like this is trash logic
VOTE: Celebloki

VOTE: Cakez

wtf? Do you think I’m chainsawing Cakez, why us your vote a response to me voting Celeb?

I agree with the logic you feel is trash. I don't know about you yet but being oppositional to a bad take and sheeping a good one helps me read you.

sincere

more enchant votes only comment i have

This is the post that made me decide to go for Cakez over Ari or Ali. Ari started the push and has specific, very established reasons. Ali was engaged a bit in the claim talk and wanting to get rid of guns. Cakez piled on more so for meta'ing Enchant it seems. The vote also came in not long after Ali's. Maybe there was hope there'd be more momentum for a wagon to start that didn't. To me his vote was opportunistic and not from the same place as Ari or Ali.

At this point I'm not making a case on Cakez, I'm just trying a different direction than Enchant. I'll say it again so I'm not mis-represented. I am NOT saying I think Enchant is town and the gun claims are interesting choices to make. I tend to agree with Ali's statement that guns have to die at some point. My stance is just to save them for later.

Okay, that makes sense
VOTE: SirCakez

consistent concept around voting, also isn't tunneling or whimsically voting people

I'll claim N1 gun btw

this falls in line with what

Alisae

said in the beginning about mid-day claims for guns being useful for assessing read changes

considering

alisae

is more clear about reads from this point on makes this even more accurate and consistent with concept of mind

+town

I can shoot Wheme.
I see no reason why we don't just kill Enchant and I shoot Wheme.
I'm happy to get shot by mafia.

This resolves 3 players with guns.

while i may not entirely agree with this strat, it does seem motivated for town and

ali

is operating off a belief that they are town.

now,

alisae

is exceptional at projecting the self-belief of town even as scum, but i dont think theres a pro-scum agenda attached here.

Theta Alpine - I lean town
Dunnstral - I lean town
The Bulge - No read
SirCakez - town
Titus - No Read
Malakittens - town
Taly - No Read
WhemeStar - I want to flip it.
Aristeia - Town
Gamma Emerald - Town
Enchant - I want to flip it.
Celebloki - Probably posting from a town!motivated place.
mfeathers - I lean town

Consistent with my previous analysis of em above

what's your case for

wheme

ali

?

my case is that it doesn't matter because I'm shooting them at night

If Wheme doesn't die N1 it's because they're a N1 rose.

the thing is, i can get behind

enchant

flip, but im not convinced

wheme/enchant

are partners, so thats my hangup with your plan

which, ik i cannot stop you, but its a good idea that we are on the same page here.

they both get flipped regardless.
I have to get flipped at some point as well unless people want to bet the game on me being town.
No one that is a gun ever gets to stay alive in this game.
Too much incentive for mafia to want to pick up guns in this setup and all mafia are roses then they deserve to be rewarded for that decision.
As mafia you don't just throw away the chance at an extra kill. That's just something you don't do.

This game would probably be different if Enchant and Wheme were actually town picking gun and behaving in ways that are actually town. If the players felt townie, I would have probably kept my mouth shut about being a gun.
Wheme is distinctly not townie so they get flipped. If they flip town I won't feel bad because flipping Wheme is a very effective way to read Wheme in this gamestate. Townflip will still be valuable to me.
Enchant I dislike based on how they leveraged their claim. I think their play has a lot of wolf!motivation behind it. It can come from town, but the fact they're playing this way demands that they get flipped.

But I think I have many townreads that are just better. I still have a bunch of players I have no read on yet, but I can focus on reading those players once I get Wheme and Enchant flipped, as flipping both of those will make solving a lot easier for me in the future.

I genuinely liked that

Aliase

is taking a long, engagement full of questions from me during this point. Eir responses feel natural and they aren't dismissing what I say or ask.

This is a very pro-town behavior on paper.

Scumreads on Enchant and Wheme, townreads on Alisae, Bulge, and Ari, I think I TR you but I haven’t really thought about the big picture yet this game
I think I also feel good about Theta rn

VOTE: Enchant
I was voting Cakez because I wanted to give the Enchant/Wheme situation some space but that post from early on about clearing Wheme makes Enchant a lot more sus + Alisae claiming N1 gun alleviates the need to leave Enchant to shoot Wheme

E-3

(night fr and *nods at

gamma

post*)

It’s actually E-4 looking ay the VC
The game started with 14

Gamma's a bad vote too.

Is this going to be a herding cats game?

Exasperation, towny because it is imposing an expectation on how proficient town should be rather than blowing up at unpredicted or unfavorable responses.

I have a question on the hypothetical massclaim. How would the order be set?

dont love this. gamma has been sidelining a lot this game. page after page of d1 mechtalk always makes my eyes glaze over but at least it sometimes comes from earnest townies. i've accused many people before of intentionally distracting the thread with pointless mech, and i dont think that's what theta or even ari is doing here, but this gamma post does strike me as fuelling a big irrelevant fire in a game with short deadlines.

This feels like an excuse of a read, that’s nowhere near the limit of what I’ve done and responding to only that displeases me

I'm trying to follow

Gamma's

read on

Bulge

and having difficulty at this point, but I think the frustration here is sincere simply because I completely would be frustrated by

Bulge's

statement about my play.

Actually, this makes me a bit more suspicious of

Bulge

because I disagree with his premise. Seems like they've only tried to push and lash at players thus far.

I want to push everyone to spew reads on Enchant/Wheme/Alisae.

I'm not convinced that any specific shot is a town-controlled one unless there is more input from the playerlist.

All town

Genuinely helpful

I'm depressed IRL. It will likely impact my play.

The crux of why I give

Titus

a pass for low activity, which is why I'm unconvinced by

Alisae's

scumread.

Theta Alpine - feels town
Dunnstral - feels town enough to give a pass d1
The Bulge - feels town enough to give a pass d1
SirCakez - town
Titus - distinctly does not feel townie compared to the rest.
Malakittens - town
Taly - feels town enough to give a pass d1
WhemeStar - Is very much so not more townie than anyone who feels town.
Aristeia - town
Gamma Emerald - town
Enchant - is very much so not more townie than anyone who feels town.
Celebloki - town
pisskop - town

more detailed reads

ali

are you doing burden of proficiency on me

i wouldnt be mad (in fact, flattered), but im really curious if you are

I don't know how to deal with you but I know that I don't want to so I'm leaving you for later.

honest

it appears im on this island alone thinking

cakez

is scum

I think celeb and Titus agree?

Why do you feel so confident with

ari

? Even if

Enchant

flipped town?

I have a solid understanding of what her strengths and weaknesses are and I understand how to work with that.

it appears im on this island alone thinking

cakez

is scum

You are not.

like.
they're all literally just working with me here.

i struggle to see them trying to sway me, trying to dismiss or do anything but honest answering.

uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuh
you do realize that I am advocating for all of the guns to be flipped ya?
That includes me

this isnt survivalistic, which would've been the main argument against

alisae

wanting to kill off guns as mafia

they intend to die in some form and i dont think thats good payoff as scum with their role, so its town.

I mean there's 1 unclaimed gun that's probably mafia

Smh.

I agree that I don't quite agree with

Alisae

here

UNVOTE:
I think I’m not ready to end this yet

Already said why, but

Gamma

!scum tends to hang onto votes more I feel, especially as they have no scum-motivated reason (survivalistic, changing thread narrative) to break steam off a widely suspected slot.

like i get that a lot of this is just me saying

"tHeY TAlKeD tO mE"

because doing that shit is like crack for me in mafia and i like to assume good intentions

but ive seen them all as scum before... more than once...

i have hydra'd with

Titus

and

Alisae

and i have some familiarty with

gamma

in an out-of-mafia context, and am likely even more familiar with their scum!self than

titus/alisae

.

it just... like, id only entertain them as mafia if I'm grossly wrong with my scumreads and thats not unlikely to be realized until mid-game at least.

important posting should be pagetopped

[Taly]

gamma

are you okay with they/them pronouns if they're not used as much as she/it?

[Taly]

until we start getting flips/bad nks Im as confident in anyone as Ill get.

projecting confident is a way to increase the possibility of

meaningful

NKs

[Taly]

I wanted Cakez to at least reply before this but

UNVOTE:

I don't think it's happening, nor is it ideal in both possible scenarios relative to

dunn/enchant

, especially as others feel better with

cakez

, that can't all be misted town or defending buddies, if any.

To what? I don't really have a rebuttal to your arguments right now I just think you're off base on me, not sure yet whether that's townie or scummy

Anything more than this?

Fuck it

VOTE: WhemeStar

This is very bizarre, I don't see how you ended up here given your prior declared scumreads

I recall putting

Wheme

as nullscum in my first readslist. They were in my bottom 4 to ISO.

Plus, a big driver behind why I voted

Enchant

was

Alisae's

logic about the guns and my read on em.

Since I was feeling closer to

Enchant

-Town by the time I voted here, my

Wheme

vote makes sense on both accounts from.how I viewed the

Enchant/Wheme

as likely TvS and

Alisae's

rationale of resolving the guns.

Plus, town needs a consensus and

Alisae

is really set between

Enchant/Wheme

, so a wagon with traction was above rand a protown move here I feel.

[Taly]

Mmmmm. I'm okay with

Cakez

in his last few posts.

Should I be reading

Ari V Bulge

? Cause I haven't and they're on like, round 3

Alisae

, how do you feel about a

Dunn

lim?

[Taly]

There's 12 other people to talk to doll

[Taly]

UNVOTE:
I think I’m not ready to end this yet

the only thing I'll post is I think I agree with this
UNVOTE:

UNVOTE:

[Taly]

why is everyone unvoting and not revoting.

what alternative do you propose at the moment?

[Taly]

Let's fire it up for a bit.

As you know i will shot someone (unless you vote me), so there's deal.

Anyone can say they like one player. And if there's two players saying they like someone, i won't consider this player egligable shot.


Choose wisely. Or don't choose at all and see if i care.

hard gatekeeping

titus/alisae/gamma

protection and im awesome enough to count as 2 fucking toucans so yeah

[Taly]

VOTE: dunn

how did the change of heart happen?

[Taly]

im playing danganronpa 2 and i just got to chapter 6 and im getting seriously mindfucked

i wont get to the trial until next weekend though getqfwdaersbtaefwcsavsefrtbefawd

[Taly]

yes

and im guessing

ali

doesnt want to talk about vote change? hmm

[Taly]

i would do GIFs but i dont want to be spoiled by accident

[Taly]

Yes.

did my votes for not shooting

alisae/titus/gamma

actually count?

[Taly]

[Taly]

i keep forgetting

celeb/theta/mala/bulge

are in this game

[Taly]

mala

is ?

theta

has not provided much but has been present

celeb

idk

bulge

is here mainly to 1v1 with

ari

and talk about not engaging with the plist

[Taly]

i want to flip

dunn

but maybe more ISOs on the mid-line of my plist would be helpful

[Taly]

mala

is ?

theta

has not provided much but has been present

celeb

idk

bulge

is here mainly to 1v1 with

ari

and talk about not engaging with the plist

like i dont think this is all town especially in a

Enchant/Wheme

TvT world.

[Taly]

mass claim is a bad idea but i like the rolling mass gun claim (ie guns claiming their kills) idea

I think I'm in the not mass claiming boat as well and agree with guns claiming if they've made a kill. I suppose that begs the question, do they only claim if they make a kill? Not if they shoot a rose that was BP that night?

both came in sharing the same sentiment about massclaim at a relatively same time

I could see scum wanting to pick rose, could've thought more town would have chosen gun and wanted some protection if they were sure they'd pick a good night. Or it does muddy the waters, if the town has an inflated view of how many roses there are, they might be more loose with using their guns or not worrying as much on mis elims.

If the number of roses were much smaller, say scum did choose all guns, and like half the town chose guns, town would probably be a lot more careful on who they wagon and elim in the day. Scum would want town to be more comfortable getting on wagons and getting people out, so inflating the number of roses helps them with that.

All that said, I am still of the belief that most likely all 3 scum are guns and we have one town gun.

all 3 scum are guns, is the main statement behind this fluff

I mean at this point if Wheme's claim is to be believed, and we believe Wheme is town, scum know everything at this point and we should not expect to see Wheme after N1. Only speculation at this point is what everyone's nights are which should never be claimed imo.

setup spec and

wheme

spec?

Personally I still think we forget about an Enchant or Wheme wagon until D2 and instead anyone pushing for an Enchant or Wheme wagon are good fodder for a wagon.

VOTE: SirCakez

I don't really think

Celeb

helped perception on this in hindsight, feels like they just tried to counter for the sake of it

enchant did you not pick gun hehe

I don't think Enchant would pick a rose if he was town

ok so why did you decide to pick rose?

also I guess if no1 else claims town gun then wheme is confirmed as the only town gun and the 3 mafia all picked gun?

cue

ari V bulge

1v1

Personally I still think we forget about an Enchant or Wheme wagon until D2 and instead anyone pushing for an Enchant or Wheme wagon are good fodder for a wagon.

VOTE: SirCakez

This line of logic only works if you have reasons to believe one or both of

Wheme/Enchant

are town.

Aside from what you posited 230, independent of any other slots' interaction with these two, why would we consider one or both of them to be town?

I wouldn't necessarily say they are town, but I don't agree with the sentiment from others that since they are claiming Gun, they must be scum. I just don't agree that scum had to have chosen gun and could see one or more of them choosing rose, leaving room for town to choose guns. My point is scum or town, they are more vulnerable now. I just don't understand the desire to claim gun so early, I feel like a scum gun is more likely to keep quiet about it, especially considering the comments made early in this day. I think it's more likely we had excitable misguided townies waving their guns around. I suppose if people are afraid Enchant will shoot them tonight they can try and elim him today. I doubt Wheme will make it to N2 to use his gun. If Enchant is scum, I just think he's a better option for a wagon tomorrow if he's still here.

fencesitty, does not give good vibes.

146 strikes me as an attempt at thread control, like they don't want discussion to stray away from mass-claim adjacency.

attempt at thread control? I barely even bother to post more than one time a day in this thread where the fuck are you getting thread control vibes

narrative control is probably more accurate. shutting down d1 scum strat speculation rubs me the wrong way, esp when you only seem interested in discussing claims. what's the point of assuming there are 3 scum guns and then not going any further with that speculation? it's all noise.

i really dont get the point of this

more enchant votes only comment i have

This is the post that made me decide to go for Cakez over Ari or Ali. Ari started the push and has specific, very established reasons. Ali was engaged a bit in the claim talk and wanting to get rid of guns. Cakez piled on more so for meta'ing Enchant it seems. The vote also came in not long after Ali's. Maybe there was hope there'd be more momentum for a wagon to start that didn't. To me his vote was opportunistic and not from the same place as Ari or Ali.

At this point I'm not making a case on Cakez, I'm just trying a different direction than Enchant. I'll say it again so I'm not mis-represented. I am NOT saying I think Enchant is town and the gun claims are interesting choices to make. I tend to agree with Ali's statement that guns have to die at some point. My stance is just to save them for later.

this makes some sense and i feel the logic behind the push checks out here

In my opinion if we mass claim now we're going to find out we have 12 roses and 2 guns.

pedit - do you disagree or are you being obtuse?

I am using the simplest language possible, you're the one being not specific about what you are saying

is that why youre voting me?

I'm voting you because you're either scum or scumsiding

nah you're voting me bc i called out your play when everyone else was giving you a pass

tbh im not quite sure what

bulge

is seeing in

ari's

posts here aside from rolefishing that didnt go anywhere?

more enchant votes only comment i have

This is the post that made me decide to go for Cakez over Ari or Ali. Ari started the push and has specific, very established reasons. Ali was engaged a bit in the claim talk and wanting to get rid of guns. Cakez piled on more so for meta'ing Enchant it seems. The vote also came in not long after Ali's. Maybe there was hope there'd be more momentum for a wagon to start that didn't. To me his vote was opportunistic and not from the same place as Ari or Ali.

At this point I'm not making a case on Cakez, I'm just trying a different direction than Enchant. I'll say it again so I'm not mis-represented. I am NOT saying I think Enchant is town and the gun claims are interesting choices to make. I tend to agree with Ali's statement that guns have to die at some point. My stance is just to save them for later.

celebloki is doing a lot of enchant-defense without ever outright calling enchant town, and being very careful not to do so. their whole iso i find to be very carefully worded but that doesnt have to be ai necessarily. but i could easily see enchant+celeb

D1 pre-associative, ok

but also,

bulge

never does anything about this via a vote or more pressure on

celeb

i like the way theta has been interacting with the thread. townbinning for now so i don't have to read so much mech spec!

ok

Bulge can you succinctly explain your beef with Ari?

when i gave my read of her slot she started flinging shit at me. her mindset from the get-go has been centred on resolving claims (seems agenda-based) rather than alignments. i have no beef but this plus her defensive reaction to me and subsequent projection reads scum to me clear as day.

anything else?

I want to push everyone to spew reads on Enchant/Wheme/Alisae.

I'm not convinced that any specific shot is a town-controlled one unless there is more input from the playerlist.

I think there's for sure scum in there, a good chance of there even being 2. I think Alisae is the most likely to be an actual town gun. I don't know what Bulge is getting at in his post saying I'm defending Enchant. I think there's a great chance he is scum. I acknowledge that it's probably a misguided view, and likely even reckless, but I really just want to let those 3 let bullets fly and sort through the mess D2. I'm just more keen on trying to narrow down someone outside of those 3 D1, then go back to whoever is still there tomorrow amongst those three.

i dont get this read progression

celeb

was focused on the wagoners on

enchant/wheme

, and while i can understand the change with

cakez

interaction and the

alisae

rationale here, i dont quite follow the whole mentality behind

"

enchant/wheme

have scum on them"

to

"

enchant/wheme

are prbably both SvS"

that is essentially what this post says as it is posits a reality where

alisae

is town

I suppose I can get behind a Wheme train. He did claim his gun later, so we wouldn't have gotten to see his shot tonight anyway. My plan to let N1 bullets fly wouldn't really have included him except as a target. I expect to go back to Cakez tomorrow though, maybe can be convinced of Dunn as well.

VOTE: Wheme

i dont get very good vibes in the sense that voting

wheme

wouldnt have a supposed impact on his reads of

cakez/dunn

aristeia stays refusing to interact with even a crumb of good faith. no part of her interactions with me show any intent to deduce my alignment or to allow me to deduce hers.

ok what does this accomplish

oh i am further behind than i thought

uh

i'm amazed the person who's in perpetual catchup mode and refuses to actually interact with the game in real time or vote among the leading wagons or even give an opinion or read on any of the leading players up for elimination less than two days from the deadline has the gall to come in here and lecture me about not sorting him properly when he is not even playing the game.

TRULY an amazing feat Bulge

i'll give you some pointers for how you can help me sort you;

(a) post more than once every two days
(b) don't catchup by exclusively asking questions about things that happened two days ago and nobody even cares about anymore
(c) try to pretend you at least care about which of the leading candidates for elimination gets elimmed
(d) maybe use your vote on something that has some traction less than two days to deadline
(e) maybe give a read on the game state or the players in the game other than the one person you seem hellbent on deathtunneling for n00b reasons.

i post as often as i am able to, take it or leave it. believe it or not mafia is not a high priority in my life, and i spend most of my time offline. i'm usually posting from work when things are slow, but when i have a meeting or a deadline or things get busy then my priorities obviously lie elsewhere.

your use of "refuses" frustrates me, as if i am tactically ghosting the thread. your continual commentary on my playstyle and posting frequency and level of engagement frustrates me. either hop off or explain why these things make me scum. your policing of how i approach the game is tiring. i dont have to meet some quota of time dedication just for the privilege of enjoying a game i have played for years.

i obviously struck a nerve when i initially stated my read on you. since then your reactions to me have been entirely emotional and hardly game-related. thus i dont believe that you are trying to sort me, this is nothing but an omgus defense.

...

most of the discussion has been around slots that i havent paid very close attention to, namely enchant/wheme/cakez/dunnstral. i'll probably forgo catching up w the main thread and have a look at these in iso and the discussion around them.

pedit @ taly - im p sure i've kept up with responding to anything directed at me (most of which has been from ari). i dont feel in tune with the rest of the thread atp bc the discussion all seems to lie where i have been glossing over. this isn't an issue i usually have even in games where i am playing from behind, but i think this time around it just so happens that the slots getting the most attention either haven't pinged me or i have been consciously skimming over.

yeah its no wonder why you have a difficulty grasp on the gamestate because your worldview begins and ends with

ari

[Taly]

Yes Shiro. You are town. *follows cookies*

pocketed forever

[Taly]

but like

I dont like

Celeb's

or

Bulge's

ISO, and can see TvS, or tbqh, even SvS.

but yknow... the more people i vote and wagon, the more im placing townies under pressure and making a TvT rife environment.

dunn

is at like, 5 votes....

and i dont agree with

wheme

, scummy is scummy.

[Taly]

i want to fucking shoot half this playerlist

[Taly]

enchant

, please kill in

{whoever survives out of celeb/dunn/bulge}

[Taly]

Town

Alisae
Titus
Gamma
Ari
pisskop
Enchant

This passes D1

Mala
Theta
Wheme
Cakez

Lean Scum

Celeb
Bulge

Scum

Dunnstral

[Taly]

VOTE: The Bulge

Will this help you engage with the rest of the playerlist?

[Taly]

Less than 29 hrs.

People should state their PoE of no more than 3 people (less is better) and the order at which they're willing to lim.

[Taly]

I was going to try and respond in some capacity to Taly's 1027, but he's mixed me in with a wall of stuff that also analyzes Bulge and I don't feel like trying to quote and pull it apart. It's dangerously easy to read someone in ISO with an expected viewpoint in mind and read that viewpoint with the loss of all the context those posts had. Calls all my early posts fluff and mechanic spec, but that's what everyone else was talking about at the time. The whole first several pages were full of that same fluff.

Then funnily enough picks apart the same posts that Bulge misrepresents me on and does the same mis representation.

I also found it funny that Taly read in ISO looks a lot like me, votes on the Cakez wagon that I started, leaves it to vote Wheme with less of a reason that I gave for my vote.

Excuse me, what?

I wanted Cakez to at least reply before this but

UNVOTE:

I don't think it's happening, nor is it ideal in both possible scenarios relative to

dunn/enchant

, especially as others feel better with

cakez

, that can't all be misted town or defending buddies, if any.

To what? I don't really have a rebuttal to your arguments right now I just think you're off base on me, not sure yet whether that's townie or scummy

Anything more than this?

Fuck it

VOTE: WhemeStar

This is very bizarre, I don't see how you ended up here given your prior declared scumreads

I recall putting

Wheme

as nullscum in my first readslist. They were in my bottom 4 to ISO.

Plus, a big driver behind why I voted

Enchant

was

Alisae's

logic about the guns and my read on em.

Since I was feeling closer to

Enchant

-Town by the time I voted here, my

Wheme

vote makes sense on both accounts from.how I viewed the

Enchant/Wheme

as likely TvS and

Alisae's

rationale of resolving the guns.

Plus, town needs a consensus and

Alisae

is really set between

Enchant/Wheme

, so a wagon with traction was above rand a protown move here I feel.

I had also stated that

Cakez

wagon was losing traction and that I was liking

Cakez's

responses to me around the time of the above post.

That statement is a bad representation of my rationale here for both

Cakez/Wheme

votes.

[Taly]

yeah I want 5 people flipped, that's not a good thing

someone help

[Taly]

Actually probably more like 3, yeah