Guns & Roses VI [Game Over]

[Taly]

@MOD, isn't Alisae voting Wheme?{/b]

[Taly]

Spoiler: An ISO dive explaining why I would go to ELO with Alisae, Titus, and Gamma

VOTE: Taly

Welcome back.

THE AUDACITY.

VOTE: gamma

FEAR ME
I AM MALA
HEAR ME
ROAR

lets let the mech wiz take a look at it

LETS GO TITUS AND GAMMA

FORMULATE.

I simulanteously got town and scum pings from this posting.

Mindmeld at the time but I leaned town ultimately

I have a question I wanna think about:
W/ the number of roses, is it worth making people who have guns claim them? I imagine this COULD be a good idea later but not right this minute.

Anyway I'ma go binge one piece goodbye

pocketed because of one piece

I have a question I wanna think about:
W/ the number of roses, is it worth making people who have guns claim them? I imagine this COULD be a good idea later but not right this minute.

Anyway I'ma go binge one piece goodbye

What is the proposed advantage here?

mid d1 it forces people to adjust their reads

i like this strat tbh because it forces read fluctuations, i wonder if

alisae

got better insights after eir claim.

What the fuck happened here xD I prepped a big intro post to kick off the day....but I missed the start of d1! Ftr I was expecting to start on n1 because that's how games start where I'm from.

Hello all! My name is Maggie and I'm new to the forums! Pleased to make y'all's acquaintances~

Right off the bat, let me specify that this isn't my first forum mafia game-far from it, actually! I actively play forumsite mafia on a different website, and I have a good amount of experience with irl mafia as well. So don't expect many beginner's "what the fuck is going on" questions from me!

That being said, I don't know what forum etiquette looks like around here, so lmk if I mess up somewhere or say something I'm not supposed to. The forumsite I'm coming from is a lot less strict than most and so if I missed a rule somewhere around here, feel free to PM me about it!

A few heads-up about how I play, though.
I'm a vomposter. (Vompost = >100 posts in a single game). I doubt I'll reach that many posts here, but be forewarned that I post a lot!
D1 shitposting. Probably won't do much here since on the other site I play on I know everyone really well and can thus meme with them, but I may do a little shitposting here and there.

I don't think I missed anything. Nice meeting you all and can't wait to play with everyone here!

Okay I feel complete now

welcome to the website

likelier town intro, i feel like scum could easily formulate a contrived thought about alignment either way here

VOTE: malakittens
Still confused and kinda bothered by the suggestion that I’m skilled with mech, I can handle it but I would not say I’ve been pivotal to helping win a game that way

How does that make them mafia as opposed to just being wrong?

I mainly voted to call attention back to that
UNVOTE:

I agree with Gamma. Malakittens putting so much emphasis on is two being mech is odd.

mfeathers, what site are you usually on? Mafiauniverse?

As for guns, they should be claimed after spending. It prevents fakes later and doesn't put a neon sign on who must die.

VOTE: Dunnstral

Too early to defend people.

Gamma

had a justified vote I feel because it was a perception about her that she didnt think was natural

Titus

equally so

mfeathers, about how many games have you played? What is the most complex setup you felt comfotable with? How would you describe your style (analytical, gut, etc.)?

Knowing

TItus'

join date on this site, this feels like a genuine attempt to understand a new player.

no actually
while it is a win condition
mafia do not have to kill all the roses to win
they still have their traditional win condition

Hmmm
Idk, I feel like there’s more complexity here than some people are suggesting, I just don’t have a good idea what exactly could be the case since I don’t know how scum would be thinking
I’ll just issue a blanket “let’s not devise any grand plans today”

fair

I want her to verify that

wanting

ari

to confirm a scumread on

enchant

from her own words, makes sense

UNVOTE:
Okay I can allow crosskill

VOTE: enchant

This literally happened one after the other... I really don't see

Alisae/Gamma

SvS ever here.

Someone's sus.

WhemeStar is down in my reads

Titus

clarified this was town* in a post after

I wonder who

Titus'

thought was sus here.

more enchant votes only comment i have

No that wagon should be Dunn for.

pocketed because of puns

gamma

are you misting me

I wish I was, unfortunately I’m just town

genuine, town

only town can be roses, right?

Scum can be rose

only town can be roses, right?

Scum and town can be guns or roses.

*notes post*

Both took the time explicitly to correct my perception of the game

Dunn

does this too but in a different context that is neither investigative or casual

I have literally no idea why Wheme made the decisions that he made do we just wanna kill Wheme D1 honestly? Because that seems par for the course for someone like Wheme.

I'm inclined to agree, he's pretty weak scum and he's never really shown interest in improving I think
VOTE: WhemeStar

ok u get a pass FOR NOW
VOTE: wheme

ali/gamma

both giving

enchant

a pass feels natural because they reach their conclusions independently

I have 7 townreads. I'm not saying who they are.
2 scumreads and they're both guns. They're publically known.
and everyone else is unsorted.

play more mafia plz ty

this aligns with what i know of town!

alisae

they tend to keep cards close to chest unless there is an explicit reason to do otherwise and are often already planning or know when that time is

Personally I still think we forget about an Enchant or Wheme wagon until D2 and instead anyone pushing for an Enchant or Wheme wagon are good fodder for a wagon.

VOTE: SirCakez

I still feel like this is trash logic
VOTE: Celebloki

I approached

Celeb

differently than a vote but I can see why this caught

Gamma's

attention, and it aligns with their perspective of how they use voting this game with

Mala/Wheme

there isnt really a cognitive dissonance in their play with several people at the moment which is +town

VOTE: enchant
i like enchant wagon more than wheme wagon

Like Ali town. Hate the reads.

not getting the vibe that

titus

is trying to pacify

alisae

here, seems honest.

Ari is falling off for me here because I feel like most of her responses to Bulge are just deflection

Mindmeld, similar thought at the time but didn't want to get involved... hence why I said their back and forth was unproductive.

Personally I still think we forget about an Enchant or Wheme wagon until D2 and instead anyone pushing for an Enchant or Wheme wagon are good fodder for a wagon.

VOTE: SirCakez

I still feel like this is trash logic
VOTE: Celebloki

VOTE: Cakez

wtf? Do you think I’m chainsawing Cakez, why us your vote a response to me voting Celeb?

I agree with the logic you feel is trash. I don't know about you yet but being oppositional to a bad take and sheeping a good one helps me read you.

sincere

more enchant votes only comment i have

This is the post that made me decide to go for Cakez over Ari or Ali. Ari started the push and has specific, very established reasons. Ali was engaged a bit in the claim talk and wanting to get rid of guns. Cakez piled on more so for meta'ing Enchant it seems. The vote also came in not long after Ali's. Maybe there was hope there'd be more momentum for a wagon to start that didn't. To me his vote was opportunistic and not from the same place as Ari or Ali.

At this point I'm not making a case on Cakez, I'm just trying a different direction than Enchant. I'll say it again so I'm not mis-represented. I am NOT saying I think Enchant is town and the gun claims are interesting choices to make. I tend to agree with Ali's statement that guns have to die at some point. My stance is just to save them for later.

Okay, that makes sense
VOTE: SirCakez

consistent concept around voting, also isn't tunneling or whimsically voting people

I'll claim N1 gun btw

this falls in line with what

Alisae

said in the beginning about mid-day claims for guns being useful for assessing read changes

considering

alisae

is more clear about reads from this point on makes this even more accurate and consistent with concept of mind

+town

I can shoot Wheme.
I see no reason why we don't just kill Enchant and I shoot Wheme.
I'm happy to get shot by mafia.

This resolves 3 players with guns.

while i may not entirely agree with this strat, it does seem motivated for town and

ali

is operating off a belief that they are town.

now,

alisae

is exceptional at projecting the self-belief of town even as scum, but i dont think theres a pro-scum agenda attached here.

Theta Alpine - I lean town
Dunnstral - I lean town
The Bulge - No read
SirCakez - town
Titus - No Read
Malakittens - town
Taly - No Read
WhemeStar - I want to flip it.
Aristeia - Town
Gamma Emerald - Town
Enchant - I want to flip it.
Celebloki - Probably posting from a town!motivated place.
mfeathers - I lean town

Consistent with my previous analysis of em above

what's your case for

wheme

ali

?

my case is that it doesn't matter because I'm shooting them at night

If Wheme doesn't die N1 it's because they're a N1 rose.

the thing is, i can get behind

enchant

flip, but im not convinced

wheme/enchant

are partners, so thats my hangup with your plan

which, ik i cannot stop you, but its a good idea that we are on the same page here.

they both get flipped regardless.
I have to get flipped at some point as well unless people want to bet the game on me being town.
No one that is a gun ever gets to stay alive in this game.
Too much incentive for mafia to want to pick up guns in this setup and all mafia are roses then they deserve to be rewarded for that decision.
As mafia you don't just throw away the chance at an extra kill. That's just something you don't do.

This game would probably be different if Enchant and Wheme were actually town picking gun and behaving in ways that are actually town. If the players felt townie, I would have probably kept my mouth shut about being a gun.
Wheme is distinctly not townie so they get flipped. If they flip town I won't feel bad because flipping Wheme is a very effective way to read Wheme in this gamestate. Townflip will still be valuable to me.
Enchant I dislike based on how they leveraged their claim. I think their play has a lot of wolf!motivation behind it. It can come from town, but the fact they're playing this way demands that they get flipped.

But I think I have many townreads that are just better. I still have a bunch of players I have no read on yet, but I can focus on reading those players once I get Wheme and Enchant flipped, as flipping both of those will make solving a lot easier for me in the future.

I genuinely liked that

Aliase

is taking a long, engagement full of questions from me during this point. Eir responses feel natural and they aren't dismissing what I say or ask.

This is a very pro-town behavior on paper.

Scumreads on Enchant and Wheme, townreads on Alisae, Bulge, and Ari, I think I TR you but I haven’t really thought about the big picture yet this game
I think I also feel good about Theta rn

VOTE: Enchant
I was voting Cakez because I wanted to give the Enchant/Wheme situation some space but that post from early on about clearing Wheme makes Enchant a lot more sus + Alisae claiming N1 gun alleviates the need to leave Enchant to shoot Wheme

E-3

(night fr and *nods at

gamma

post*)

It’s actually E-4 looking ay the VC
The game started with 14

Gamma's a bad vote too.

Is this going to be a herding cats game?

Exasperation, towny because it is imposing an expectation on how proficient town should be rather than blowing up at unpredicted or unfavorable responses.

I have a question on the hypothetical massclaim. How would the order be set?

dont love this. gamma has been sidelining a lot this game. page after page of d1 mechtalk always makes my eyes glaze over but at least it sometimes comes from earnest townies. i've accused many people before of intentionally distracting the thread with pointless mech, and i dont think that's what theta or even ari is doing here, but this gamma post does strike me as fuelling a big irrelevant fire in a game with short deadlines.

This feels like an excuse of a read, that’s nowhere near the limit of what I’ve done and responding to only that displeases me

I'm trying to follow

Gamma's

read on

Bulge

and having difficulty at this point, but I think the frustration here is sincere simply because I completely would be frustrated by

Bulge's

statement about my play.

Actually, this makes me a bit more suspicious of

Bulge

because I disagree with his premise. Seems like they've only tried to push and lash at players thus far.

I want to push everyone to spew reads on Enchant/Wheme/Alisae.

I'm not convinced that any specific shot is a town-controlled one unless there is more input from the playerlist.

All town

Genuinely helpful

I'm depressed IRL. It will likely impact my play.

The crux of why I give

Titus

a pass for low activity, which is why I'm unconvinced by

Alisae's

scumread.

Theta Alpine - feels town
Dunnstral - feels town enough to give a pass d1
The Bulge - feels town enough to give a pass d1
SirCakez - town
Titus - distinctly does not feel townie compared to the rest.
Malakittens - town
Taly - feels town enough to give a pass d1
WhemeStar - Is very much so not more townie than anyone who feels town.
Aristeia - town
Gamma Emerald - town
Enchant - is very much so not more townie than anyone who feels town.
Celebloki - town
pisskop - town

more detailed reads

ali

are you doing burden of proficiency on me

i wouldnt be mad (in fact, flattered), but im really curious if you are

I don't know how to deal with you but I know that I don't want to so I'm leaving you for later.

honest

it appears im on this island alone thinking

cakez

is scum

I think celeb and Titus agree?

Why do you feel so confident with

ari

? Even if

Enchant

flipped town?

I have a solid understanding of what her strengths and weaknesses are and I understand how to work with that.

it appears im on this island alone thinking

cakez

is scum

You are not.

like.
they're all literally just working with me here.

i struggle to see them trying to sway me, trying to dismiss or do anything but honest answering.

uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuh
you do realize that I am advocating for all of the guns to be flipped ya?
That includes me

this isnt survivalistic, which would've been the main argument against

alisae

wanting to kill off guns as mafia

they intend to die in some form and i dont think thats good payoff as scum with their role, so its town.

I mean there's 1 unclaimed gun that's probably mafia

Smh.

I agree that I don't quite agree with

Alisae

here

UNVOTE:
I think I’m not ready to end this yet

Already said why, but

Gamma

!scum tends to hang onto votes more I feel, especially as they have no scum-motivated reason (survivalistic, changing thread narrative) to break steam off a widely suspected slot.

like i get that a lot of this is just me saying

"tHeY TAlKeD tO mE"

because doing that shit is like crack for me in mafia and i like to assume good intentions

but ive seen them all as scum before... more than once...

i have hydra'd with

Titus

and

Alisae

and i have some familiarty with

gamma

in an out-of-mafia context, and am likely even more familiar with their scum!self than

titus/alisae

.

it just... like, id only entertain them as mafia if I'm grossly wrong with my scumreads and thats not unlikely to be realized until mid-game at least.

important posting should be pagetopped

[pisskop]

until we start getting flips/bad nks Im as confident in anyone as Ill get.

[Taly]

gamma

are you okay with they/them pronouns if they're not used as much as she/it?

[Taly]

until we start getting flips/bad nks Im as confident in anyone as Ill get.

projecting confident is a way to increase the possibility of

meaningful

NKs

[The Bulge]

I think Enchant's just town here because he sounds incredibly annoyed in a really exasperated way that he really only gets when he's town getting run up.

was getting a reaction your intent in pushing enchant early on?

I struggle to see how you can actually ask this question because it is truly bizarre to me.

the basis of all play in this game is to push to get reactions and then use those reactions to judge alignment and figure out the game.

How else do people play mafia?

jfc i am done asking anything of you today

[The Bulge]

aristeia stays refusing to interact with even a crumb of good faith. no part of her interactions with me show any intent to deduce my alignment or to allow me to deduce hers.

[The Bulge]

not a fan of the wheme wagon comp

[FakeGod]

@MOD, isn't Alisae voting Wheme?{/b]

Fixed. Thank you.

[The Bulge]

I have a question on the hypothetical massclaim. How would the order be set?

dont love this. gamma has been sidelining a lot this game. page after page of d1 mechtalk always makes my eyes glaze over but at least it sometimes comes from earnest townies. i've accused many people before of intentionally distracting the thread with pointless mech, and i dont think that's what theta or even ari is doing here, but this gamma post does strike me as fuelling a big irrelevant fire in a game with short deadlines.

This feels like an excuse of a read, that’s nowhere near the limit of what I’ve done and responding to only that displeases me

not sure what else you feel i should have commented on

How about my discussion with Ari?

made no impression

[The Bulge]

oh i am further behind than i thought

[Gamma Emerald]

gamma

are you okay with they/them pronouns if they're not used as much as she/it?

Yeah

[Gamma Emerald]

Has anyone given an explanation for their Bulge SR? I thought his prodding at Ari was kinda town but beyond that I don’t have much feeling there

[SirCakez]

Reading reading reading

[SirCakez]

I don't think Alisae is scummy e is playing more motivated and engaged then I'd expect as scum

[Aristeia]

i'm amazed the person who's in perpetual catchup mode and refuses to actually interact with the game in real time or vote among the leading wagons or even give an opinion or read on any of the leading players up for elimination less than two days from the deadline has the gall to come in here and lecture me about not sorting him properly when he is not even playing the game.

TRULY an amazing feat Bulge

[SirCakez]

I wanted Cakez to at least reply before this but

UNVOTE:

I don't think it's happening, nor is it ideal in both possible scenarios relative to

dunn/enchant

, especially as others feel better with

cakez

, that can't all be misted town or defending buddies, if any.

To what? I don't really have a rebuttal to your arguments right now I just think you're off base on me, not sure yet whether that's townie or scummy

[Aristeia]

i'll give you some pointers for how you can help me sort you;

(a) post more than once every two days
(b) don't catchup by exclusively asking questions about things that happened two days ago and nobody even cares about anymore
(c) try to pretend you at least care about which of the leading candidates for elimination gets elimmed
(d) maybe use your vote on something that has some traction less than two days to deadline
(e) maybe give a read on the game state or the players in the game other than the one person you seem hellbent on deathtunneling for n00b reasons.

[Gamma Emerald]

i'm amazed the person who's in perpetual catchup mode and refuses to actually interact with the game in real time or vote among the leading wagons or even give an opinion or read on any of the leading players up for elimination less than two days from the deadline has the gall to come in here and lecture me about not sorting him properly when he is not even playing the game.

TRULY an amazing feat Bulge

This probably wasn’t meant as a response to my question but it kinda covers some of it, and I can see scum agenda in Bulge’s behavior if this is accurate

[SirCakez]

Like I've read this iso 5 times it's horrendous.

I think a lot of that is not AI
I could vote Wheme but I would need to be convinced over Enchant

[Aristeia]

I should amend (e) because it might be insulting

I did not mean to say n00b reasons.

a better descriptor would be reasons beyond my comprehension because I have no idea what your suspicion of me even stems from.

[SirCakez]

Fuck it

VOTE: WhemeStar

This is very bizarre, I don't see how you ended up here given your prior declared scumreads

[Aristeia]

i'm amazed the person who's in perpetual catchup mode and refuses to actually interact with the game in real time or vote among the leading wagons or even give an opinion or read on any of the leading players up for elimination less than two days from the deadline has the gall to come in here and lecture me about not sorting him properly when he is not even playing the game.

TRULY an amazing feat Bulge

This probably wasn’t meant as a response to my question but it kinda covers some of it, and I can see scum agenda in Bulge’s behavior if this is accurate

i have played two games with bulge and we were t/t both times and both times he just tunneled on a townie for nonsensical reasons and did little to nothing to scumhunt so I wish I could say its exclusively scum motivated behavior but it could just be how he plays town.

the way he got mad at me for "not displaying good faith" or whatever garbage he spewed does feel a bit townie but his vote on me lacks any hint of conviction and I've yet to see him even bother to try to get anyone to vote me.

[SirCakez]

For the Lols

Okay to be fair I thought it was obvious joke but then ppl took it seriously so I was like hmm I can just act like nignt 2 gun maybe mafia kills me night 2

Bruh

[pisskop]

Call whemestar the skull collector because people have been posting them all game for him