Good postIn post 1296, JaydragonKing wrote:I trust Almost the least out of Dino-Almost-Luca, if that helps. Again, going by Meta (oh so flawed as it is), he's always had a strong opinion as Town, yet this is the most amount of time he's just Sheeping people when I thought he would be up there with Dino and Luca in terms of content.
One thing I find fun is after being accused of being on a scum motivated wagon Anen tries to wagon Mathdino.In post 1300, Mathdino wrote:
I'm not, what the fuck are you townreading from jmo rnIn post 1308, Mathdino wrote:i mean honestly the alternatives to pintu imo are you and jmo
and i'm townreading jmo
Feels more like scum who was all bluster to meIn post 1311, Mathdino wrote:Someone's sitewide activity dropping off doesn't mean shit
Read his trajectory
Reads like town who wanted to go all tryhard but got busy and started snowballing into not being caught up
Anen said lowercase t in tomorrow meaning it's irlIn post 1313, JaydragonKing wrote:Well I don't think that matters because your probably not the Vigilante who'd shoot me. You said it yourself, you haven't checked your PM since the beginning of the game. But I haven't believed that shit since the beginning, honestly. You keep it up though.
Aneninen promised a readlist "tommorow", aka day 2. I am positive he's scum at this point trying a last second stall. Mutant's slot has been much more damaging then pintu, and Almost is clearly hiding something. Gamma's been caught up between you and Luca, who's been getting townier by the minute. North's been gone for a while, and Creature also bailed. And Paradox and Jmo have been also null, so by your definition, they are also a valuable shot.
I believe that's all twelve of us, some more memorable then others.
What
I mean if people will vote mutant I'm totally with that, jmo is acceptable, and I might be down with lynching A50, I'm not set on Anen as you seem to be sayingIn post 1334, JaydragonKing wrote:Paradox. Listen.
Look at the votes again. Dino, Luca, Gamma, Almost, and Pinto are voting Anen, and none of none seem particularly interested in moving to a different wagon. My vote will soon be going there, so that's half the people against him.
That leaves you, North, jmo, Creature, Anen himself, and Mutant (who Anen is trying to counter-wagon) to save him. North, Creature, and jmo are non-entities at the moment.
Be sensible and let Anen be the Lynch. Try to argue with me to save Pintu from being a wasted vigilante shot. That's what the town should be doing right now.
Meh I've also been like this as town when I've felt like it didn't matterIn post 1335, Luca Blight wrote:His whole'I won't bother posting if people have decided I'm the lynch' thing seemed more like scum giving up to me - as Town there is no reason not to at least share your thoughts, even if you're definitely going to be killed.
How about I have to get sleep sometimesIn post 1356, JaydragonKing wrote:It's turning into a shitfest and Gamma bailed out. Great.
here's where your argument falls apart: Pin's not universally scumread.In post 1372, Mathdino wrote:- That universal scumread either wastes a day getting lynched or is a constant source of paranoia until endgame.
I mean at face value that's the logical statementIn post 1373, JaydragonKing wrote:In post 1371, Luca Blight wrote:In post 19, JaydragonKing wrote:I also fake claim to save my ass no matter what, so believe me at your own risk..In post 1370, JaydragonKing wrote:Oh, looks who's doing a misrep of me now. I get your pissed at Dino but don't bring me into it. You don't even know the complete context between my claims.
...curious...In post 1382, Mathdino wrote:some interesting facts:
NSG's postrate is almost exactly between her average town postrate and scum postrate
the number of questions she's asked per post far FAR exceeds both her town questionrate and scumquestionrate, although her scum questionrate is generally a little higher
basically NSG is playing severely against meta by spending almost every post asking questions rather than making statements
it's not scum indicative but i've realised that's why i can't get a lock on her
I remembered what I said that's why I was confused: that's not a full-on case, that's points against you.In post 1393, Aneninen wrote:Just a couple of things.
From 276. Discrediting you and quoting things out of context. It's strange that you don't remember.In post 1301, Gamma Emerald wrote:Where did I actually have a case against you?
what about it was towny?In post 1401, Mathdino wrote:jmo (early game)
I mean for strong vig play look at Real Folk Blues rematch. My first shot was a partial-hipfire based on someone trying to strongarm my shot feeling scummy. After that my shots were always within a specific pool that for the beginning I made myself but after a critical failure I took advice from the masonry in that game. So really we should all probably make a vig pool and vig can only shoot in the one we all decide on.In post 1408, Mathdino wrote:In the vast majority of MS games, the vig fucks over town harder than it fucks over scum.
As scum, the optimal strategy for me isn't to try to strongarm everyone into following this great idea of outsourcing the vig to democracy (LOLDEMOCRACY), it would be to
1. Not get vigged. It's hilariously easy to town it up D1 as scum when you know who everyone is.
2. Let the vig "decide what's best".
3. Try to shoot a power role (and dear god so many people this game have bled power role).
4. Read through everyone's reads lists on D1 to figure out who the vig is and just shoot the vig on N2.
Every open setup I enter I think to myself "what are the flaws in how town uses this" and "how would I want things to go if I were scum".
How I would want things to go is literally letting things go the way they normally do and shooting PRs because I'm better at doing that than convincing 9 players to do what I want.
Okay. If Anen flips town this is probscum.In post 1427, TheGoldenParadox wrote:Read contet, sheeping you for someone I think is town, which means I think anen is town.
Honestly I'm down for lynching anen who's not too much of a townread if that means his townflip will result in a vig on math.
Why are you being so reticent thenIn post 1430, Almost50 wrote:Ditto. Not just vigged, but I'll take any sort of a night death over being lynched.In post 1422, Mathdino wrote:Tbh I actually prefer being vigged to being lynched
hey mutant for getting on me about not pushing questions you sure seem to not be looking for them nowIn post 1421, Gamma Emerald wrote:...curious...In post 1382, Mathdino wrote:some interesting facts:
NSG's postrate is almost exactly between her average town postrate and scum postrate
the number of questions she's asked per post far FAR exceeds both her town questionrate and scumquestionrate, although her scum questionrate is generally a little higher
basically NSG is playing severely against meta by spending almost every post asking questions rather than making statements
it's not scum indicative but i've realised that's why i can't get a lock on her
thoughts mutant?
I actually like this analysis. The main point of asking you this was a consistency check for whether you'd poke at her questions since that many questions means some of them likely fall by the wayside, but the response is nice anyway.In post 1441, mutantdevle wrote:I'm not that familiar with NSG's meta. I've played 1 town and 1 scum game with NSG. In the scum game I protected her N1 as a doc and was mostly town reading her but by N2 I had a gut feeling she was scum which turned out to be correct. In my town game, she replaced in and I was lynched D1 so didn't get too much of a chance to interact. She felt town there though and I didn't have that gut scum feel as I did previously. Math's statement here is either proof that he doesn't know NSG as well as he claims to or that NSG is trying something new this game. I don't have that gut scum feel this game.In post 1421, Gamma Emerald wrote:...curious...In post 1382, Mathdino wrote:some interesting facts:
NSG's postrate is almost exactly between her average town postrate and scum postrate
the number of questions she's asked per post far FAR exceeds both her town questionrate and scumquestionrate, although her scum questionrate is generally a little higher
basically NSG is playing severely against meta by spending almost every post asking questions rather than making statements
it's not scum indicative but i've realised that's why i can't get a lock on her
thoughts mutant?
Why this game though? Why not any other game are you being so defeatist?In post 1450, Almost50 wrote:1- I would very much appreciate it if you used more common terms. I've had to google "reticent"In post 1439, Gamma Emerald wrote:Why are you being so reticent then
2- I am not. I am being effortless. Or rather saving my efforts until they are truly needed.
In general; D1 is the playground of Scum and VIs alike. Anything you say or try to do will be opposed by both. VIs tend to follow Scum much much more than they do Town, and I don't want to go through the trouble of swimming against the current.
I'm not sure how close this is to the line but we should probs stopIn post 1466, mutantdevle wrote:I'm not so sure I'm liking this flash NSG wagon. (I also find it odd how there have been several flash wagons that don't seem to go anywhere but I guess that's a point for another time). I'm willing to vote for her as a compromise though because obviously, time isn't doing us any favours right now.
I take issue with this because I am currently in 3 games with NSG right now and this game is probably where she is posting the most.In post 1444, Mathdino wrote:She's been posting everywhere EXCEPT this thread.
lolOMGUSIn post 1492, Almost50 wrote:OK. So Dino wanted a readlist? Here are my final reads:
1. Mathdino (Town)
2. JaydragonKing (Scum)
3. Almost50 (Town, of course)
4. Luca Blight (Shitty Town)
5. northsidegal (Scum)
6. Creature (How is this still in the game?)
7. Pinturicchio (Shitty Town)
8. Aneninen (Town)
9. Gamma Emerald (Town)
10. TheGoldenParadox (80% Shitty Town, 20% Scum)
11. jmo16mla (Town_
12. mutantdevle (80% Scum, 20% Shitty Town)
Whatever. You play against meta like you did you get suspected. I'll admit that the possibility of you baiting NK should have been on my mind but I was kinda tunneled on you. Sorry bro.In post 1517, Almost50 wrote:VOTE: A50
HAMMER!
@Scum: You really thought you were lynching the Vig (or forcing an explicit claim?). GET OUT OF HERE. I was a VT, SUCKERS! It was all planned to lure you into shooting me.
Just a FYI, that read list stands. Just move Gamma from Town to SHITTY Town.In post 248, Almost50 wrote:#Important Announcement:I see you're all making a damn good circus show without me. I'll only intervene when I'm needed, so carry on. (That's me being, in fact)verytruthful
I somewhat agree with this, I've had no real thing I could look at and say "this is what alignment I think Jay is".
And you've ignored me too. Did you answer my questions I asked you?In post 1532, JaydragonKing wrote:Gamma don't you start too.
You are suddenly all very vocal for me to go by Vigilante when you all fucking ignored me for most of the game.
Okay, but if vig shoots a vanity SR my eyes go to youIn post 1538, JaydragonKing wrote:Yeah, No. The vigilante is shooting whoever the hell they think is more scummy. Clearly democracy isn't going to work out. If they shoot me, fine. If they shoot Pintu, fine. If they shoot Dino, fine. If they shoot ANYONE, fine.
Clearly we are settling this day 2.
I mean I'll still question it in other games but for now I'm bowing to you hereIn post 1561, Mathdino wrote:i even fucking preempted pintu's claim by saying "all mafia is going to claim jailkeeper" SPECIFICALLY SO WE WOULDNT OUT THE REAL JAILKEEPER
those of you on the A50 wagon can never question my ability to read A50 ever again thanks
Sure, but don't expect me to just throw away a strong read because you say it's wrongIn post 1566, Mathdino wrote:@Jay: don't turn this around on me
creature was obvtown to everyone
town creature almost universally gets shot N1 and he also created the pintu wagon
Edit:
@Gamma: fair
how about just a standard "if you trust my alignment, trust my reads"
i fully accept being scum as a reason for being wrong
This is a bit of reverse engineered logic so bear with me. When I designed my Large Normal to start I had two ideas I sorta rolled into one: the Willbooster idea and the Vig 18p idea. The Vig 18p idea was actually based on this exact setup, but with a few more roles to sorta sweeten the pot I guess. The reason why I picked 18 players as the number was because with vig there should generally be 3 deaths a cycle, thus bringing it eventually to 3p lylo potentially. I took that idea from this setup because I saw the same process in play here just with less overall numbers. My point is vig should not be holstering because I feel the setup is based around them shooting each and every night.In post 1593, Mathdino wrote:Hmmmm, theory time.
Do we want to direct the vig again?
Since we're in odds, an extra death at night is theoretically pretty bad for town and puts us in LyLo if we're wrong about both our scumreads. On the other hand, if scum fails to catch the vig (which, let's be honest, they'll probably easily find the vig tonight thanks to yesterday's shitshow), we could actually direct yet another vig tomorrow to put us back in odds.
Clearly Jay dies no matter what, but do we have any backup options?
This sounds like some solid logic actually.In post 1600, Mathdino wrote:I think this is fair, but also keep in mind most setups are based around not lynching scum on D1 (and let's be honest, pintu was basically lynched, not vigged).In post 1598, Gamma Emerald wrote:This is a bit of reverse engineered logic so bear with me. When I designed my Large Normal to start I had two ideas I sorta rolled into one: the Willbooster idea and the Vig 18p idea. The Vig 18p idea was actually based on this exact setup, but with a few more roles to sorta sweeten the pot I guess. The reason why I picked 18 players as the number was because with vig there should generally be 3 deaths a cycle, thus bringing it eventually to 3p lylo potentially. I took that idea from this setup because I saw the same process in play here just with less overall numbers. My point is vig should not be holstering because I feel the setup is based around them shooting each and every night.
Clearly if we get a counterclaim situation, vig is our backup plan to shoot scum if we get the coinflip wrong.
I'm toying with this idea: We should be lynching today in the set of people who didn't want the vig to shoot pintu, as those people had shittons of scum motivation and are pretty clearly not the vig.
Why not use the vig to shoot people who WERE okay with vig shooting pintu, and acknowledge that since the vig isn't gonna just shoot themselves, there's less danger of hitting a power role?
That would mean shooting in {NSG, mutant}, with the acknowledgement that if one of them actually is the vig, they should obviously just act like they're VT potentially getting shot.
Edit: @mutant: I want to lynch Jay and vig someone else. We should do our best to hit scum today I think, because that gives jailkeeper the opportunity to play offence (scumhunting) rather than defence (nightkillhunting).
idk how about the fact someone might have townread his reaction? idk this feels kinda wrong in some wayIn post 1650, jmo16mla wrote:I like this.In post 1568, Mathdino wrote:let's be honest here guys scum is no matter what in the set of people that heavily suggested not shooting pintu
plus by lynching in that set, we don't run the risk of running up the vig
We can compare people that were on his wagon vs against his vigging and see if there are any people that swapped over.
Counterclaim jailkeeper. Checkmate friendo. I targeted Mathdino n1. I was debating not doing so because he was drawing it super-obviously but after A50's flip I decided he should be kept around. Also there's a crumb I left that Mathdino and I think mutant have both noted at this point. I can quote it if needed but honestly just ctrl-f jail in my ISO and you should find it.In post 1666, JaydragonKing wrote:Oh hey that intent finally forces me to claim. Wonderful.
In post 735, JaydragonKing wrote:I've kinda tuned them out as well and have been posting non-game related stuff to get noticed and see if they'd jump for my throat so I could do something this game, but they are in their own world.
Fake-claimingBackupJailkeeper by the way.
Why should we?In post 1687, JaydragonKing wrote:Well let's all just humor me and go under the assumption I do just flip Vanilla Townie, okay?
We'll need to find the two scum who have infiltrated us and exterminate them. I can rule out Gamma now, and probably Dino, so I'll start looking into Luca. That seems like a fine discussion point.
Sure. I'll pull up the info once I get caught up.In post 1698, Mathdino wrote:Please stop talking to confscum, lol.In post 1694, Gamma Emerald wrote:Why should we?In post 1687, JaydragonKing wrote:Well let's all just humor me and go under the assumption I do just flip Vanilla Townie, okay?
We'll need to find the two scum who have infiltrated us and exterminate them. I can rule out Gamma now, and probably Dino, so I'll start looking into Luca. That seems like a fine discussion point.
If you do though don't expect me to telegraph my action, as scum can likely just send the other to kill me. I will never target the vig target however.
Wanna go through the wagon lists to see if we can find our third?
He's not saying he's flipping JK, he recanted.In post 1722, Mathdino wrote:Uh, vig Gamma and proceed as usual?In post 1720, JaydragonKing wrote:Continuously calling me claimed scum when you have seen me do this EVERY GAME as EITHER ALIGNMENT is horrible and you know it Dino. Get off your ass and have your back up plan ready for when I flip Village Idiot.
This feels like a scum trying to wiggle an option open that they earlier closed off. No thanksIn post 1736, northsidegal wrote:there's only so few people scum could still actually be in, then. perhaps ane isn't as cleared as i thought.
Yeah that's some wonky-ass logic there. He doesn't seem to be able to make up his mind about what circumstances I should be calling my target for?In post 1737, mutantdevle wrote:In post 1727, jmo16mla wrote:So.Jay is known for fake claiming as any faction.
We lynch him. He turns out VT, we all agree to vig someone. Before hand if this happens. We also have to find someone to jailkeep. We have to think though. We cannot vig and jail keep the same person.So we vig the most scummy person, then jailkrep the second most scummy person?That way we can clear someone that night.But I thought the whole point of your post was what to do if Jay flips town?In post 1733, jmo16mla wrote:We only decide for the "if Jay is scum" part. Guess I didn't make that clear.
Also, mfw when literally all of us forget about Jay's slip at the start there.
that's not really the point of contention though? It's that mutant is very likely not scum with jay cos scum playerlist awareness. It's the same philosophy Cabd had in Large 199 when claiming masons with someone outside of the game (I know no one understands this but I still feel like the comparison should be made).In post 1738, northsidegal wrote:i wonder if that mistake really was outside of jay's scumgame. apparently i've already underestimated him once, this game.
I prolly do not jailkeep Luca if Jay flips scum, but if Jay flips town it's something I might consider based on this logic.In post 1764, Mathdino wrote:TBH the question of jailkeeping isn't who we think is most likely to be scum after the vig target, it's who we most want to clear for LyLo.
So if we agree that Aneninen probably deserves rope for the latter half of D1, then the question is who we want to confirm between {Luca, NSG, jmo}. For activity reasons, I prefer Luca (also because Luca clearly doesn't want to be jailed). For gamesolving reasons, I could be down with jailing jmo.
Why are you still SRing him, if not why aren't you willing to give your vote to him after how right he was about all the flips we've had?In post 1765, TheGoldenParadox wrote:I'm sorry, I'm not a dino proxy vote. That was a joke, IIn post 1761, Mathdino wrote:NGL it's still probably NSG by play post-bus, but I'm biased as fuck toward keeping her around for readily sheepable reads and if she's deepwolfing she can just die the day before LyLo.
That's 3 votes for vigging Anen (me, Luca, mutant). Add 2 for Mathdino proxy votes (Gamma, Paradox) and Aneninen should claim.
a) have my own reasoning for votes
b) am not going to proxy I've been SRing for most of the game
So you think he gave correct reads as scum on 3/11 slots?In post 1779, TheGoldenParadox wrote:Because scum know everybody's alignments, that's why I'm SLing him.In post 1778, Gamma Emerald wrote:Why are you still SRing him, if not why aren't you willing to give your vote to him after how right he was about all the flips we've had?In post 1765, TheGoldenParadox wrote:I'm sorry, I'm not a dino proxy vote. That was a joke, IIn post 1761, Mathdino wrote:NGL it's still probably NSG by play post-bus, but I'm biased as fuck toward keeping her around for readily sheepable reads and if she's deepwolfing she can just die the day before LyLo.
That's 3 votes for vigging Anen (me, Luca, mutant). Add 2 for Mathdino proxy votes (Gamma, Paradox) and Aneninen should claim.
a) have my own reasoning for votes
b) am not going to proxy I've been SRing for most of the game
Hm. I'll definitely want to go back to this on later days but for now it seems like if Jay flips scum there were two scum on the Anen wagon both of the later times. Kinda makes me think Anen is town in that case. Also interesting is Jay latevoting a lot of suspects d1. Seems like he's really intent to get that middle ground vote, also possibly the bus vote. I'll definitely check into that upon a Jay scumflip. For now let's go with I'm jailing mutant on Jay scumflip. Will note I feel like there should be another scum voting me as I was quite the juicy suspect d1. I'll give jmo a pass cos earlier vote meaning I'm looking in one of (TGP, mutant, LB). Whilst I townread LB I'm not going to make the statement that what I'm townreading them for couldn't come from them as scum as I have no baseline for that. He's still my definite last pick in those 3 for scum. Only issue I see to this is Pintu has Jay plus all 3 of them voting there so that's kinda a wacked wagon comp if that thought process is correct.In post 1667, Mathdino wrote:RVS jmo wagon next to the policy jmo wagon.In post 1664, Mathdino wrote:jmo16mla (4) ~ northsidegal,Mathdino, TheGoldenParadox, Luca Blight
jmo16mla (4) ~ northsidegal,Creature,Gamma Emerald,JaydragonKing
Everyone ballsy enough to vote me.In post 1664, Mathdino wrote:Mathdino(4) ~JaydragonKing, TheGoldenParadox, Luca Blight,Gamma Emerald
Early pressure wagon next to the lategame lurker wagon.In post 1664, Mathdino wrote:northsidegal (4) ~Creature,Mathdino, TheGoldenParadox,JaydragonKing
northsidegal (4) ~JaydragonKing,Almost50,Mathdino, Luca Blight
The Gamma wagon, now confirmed to be partially scum motivated.In post 1664, Mathdino wrote:Gamma Emerald(6) ~ jmo16mla,Pinturicchio,Mathdino, TheGoldenParadox, mutantdevle, Luca Blight
The Pintu "lynch"wagon, with TheGoldenParadox's intent to hammer.In post 1664, Mathdino wrote:Pinturicchio(6) ~ northsidegal, mutantdevle, Luca Blight,Mathdino,Almost50,JaydragonKing, (TGP)
The many forms of the Aneninen wagon. All players who were on it are:In post 1664, Mathdino wrote:Aneninen (5) ~ TheGoldenParadox,Mathdino, Luca Blight,Almost50,Gamma Emerald
Aneninen (6) ~Almost50,JaydragonKing, Mathdino, Luca Blight,Pinturicchio, mutantdevle
Aneninen (6) ~Mathdino, Luca Blight,Almost50,Gamma Emerald,Pinturicchio,JaydragonKing
TheGoldenParadox,Mathdino, Luca Blight,Almost50,Gamma Emerald,JaydragonKing,Pinturicchio, mutantdevle.
mutant counterwagon.In post 1664, Mathdino wrote:mutantdevle (5) ~ Aneninen,Gamma Emerald,Mathdino,Almost50,JaydragonKing
Shitshow of a lynch wagon.In post 1664, Mathdino wrote:Almost50(6) ~Pinturicchio,JaydragonKing, Luca Blight, mutantdevle, TheGoldenParadox,Gamma Emerald
Go to town, VCA enthusiasts.
Actually yeah you're right, mutant is conftown in that scenarioIn post 1789, Mathdino wrote:1. You're not going to survive the night. As such, you should be the one to place the L-1 vote.In post 1787, Gamma Emerald wrote:Hm. I'll definitely want to go back to this on later days but for now it seems like if Jay flips scum there were two scum on the Anen wagon both of the later times. Kinda makes me think Anen is town in that case. Also interesting is Jay latevoting a lot of suspects d1. Seems like he's really intent to get that middle ground vote, also possibly the bus vote. I'll definitely check into that upon a Jay scumflip. For now let's go with I'm jailing mutant on Jay scumflip. Will note I feel like there should be another scum voting me as I was quite the juicy suspect d1. I'll give jmo a pass cos earlier vote meaning I'm looking in one of (TGP, mutant, LB). Whilst I townread LB I'm not going to make the statement that what I'm townreading them for couldn't come from them as scum as I have no baseline for that. He's still my definite last pick in those 3 for scum. Only issue I see to this is Pintu has Jay plus all 3 of them voting there so that's kinda a wacked wagon comp if that thought process is correct.
2. Jay clearly has no issue with bussing. Assume he flips scum imo.
3. mutant is conftown upon Jay scumflip. I've gone over this. Jay didn't know who mutant even was.
4. I'm not into jailing Paradox. I think Luca is the right call tonight.
...so?In post 1792, Mathdino wrote:Because I think he's town, and he seems to hard-scumread me every time I say so.
