Open 735: Watchmen Wanted - Game Over!
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Keyser Söze Jack of All Trades
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Keyser Söze Jack of All Trades
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Keyser Söze Jack of All Trades
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Keyser Söze Jack of All Trades
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This was a page one question intended to be answered before we enter serious/non-RVS gameplay.In post 16, Sesq wrote:
please Please townread meIn post 13, Keyser Söze wrote:Anyone played this setup before?
I.e what’s the best way to play it... does hypoclaiming help town or scum?
And while we’re all saying hello, what are your opinions on how to deal with lurkers.
You shouldn’t see it as an attempt to look ‘townie’: it’s as non-alignment indicative as say a player asking if there is scum day chat - why are you being lazy/shortsighted?-
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Keyser Söze Jack of All Trades
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Keyser Söze Jack of All Trades
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Keyser Söze Jack of All Trades
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Keyser Söze Jack of All Trades
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Keyser Söze Jack of All Trades
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Did you answer the question NSG?In post 31, Keyser Söze wrote:Are you saying GNB is suspiciously being overly-conscious about being t/readfor a townie?-
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Keyser Söze Jack of All Trades
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Keyser Söze Jack of All Trades
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Keyser Söze Jack of All Trades
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Irrelephant11, do you have an early teammate suspicion brewing... between me and cesq?In post 40, Keyser Söze wrote:I don’t think we have played a game together.-
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Keyser Söze Jack of All Trades
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Ah yes, that could be what he meant and I’ve overreacted over the whole thingIn post 41, Irrelephant11 wrote:Oh okay 'cause originally I thought Sesq was just asking you to "please please townread me" in a genuine way
I see now what was meant-
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Keyser Söze Jack of All Trades
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Well you could say she’s alot more talkative here compared to our last gameIn post 39, Irrelephant11 wrote:Wow yay a townread (nsg)
Open/expressive vibes are present so far.-
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Keyser Söze Jack of All Trades
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I want a rough agreement before we begin that all lurkers (who are harmful to town, regardless of alignment) should be replaced with active players.
Given the setup we have no cops, and catching scum with the watcher is very difficult... I think we’ll be finding scum the ol’ traditional way through analysing posts/interactions/votes.-
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Keyser Söze Jack of All Trades
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I forgot we’re in an Open game obviously.In post 46, Reundo wrote:
What? Asking if there's scum day chat would be an entirely useless question since you can just skim through the role PMs and find the answer yourself. That would actually lean more scum imo since it would seem like a pretty shitty attempt at a dumb-tell. I don't think it would be too unreasonable for someone to town-read you for trying to strike up conversation, or to think it's just a facade by that same reasoning.In post 25, Keyser Söze wrote:
This was a page one question intended to be answered before we enter serious/non-RVS gameplay.In post 16, Sesq wrote:
please Please townread meIn post 13, Keyser Söze wrote:Anyone played this setup before?
I.e what’s the best way to play it... does hypoclaiming help town or scum?
And while we’re all saying hello, what are your opinions on how to deal with lurkers.
You shouldn’t see it as an attempt to look ‘townie’: it’s as non-alignment indicative as say a player asking if there is scum day chat - why are you being lazy/shortsighted?
I should have given a different example.
I don’t wanna discuss whether my early question was alignment indicative anymore though, why are you getting so excited over it? Do you have any charged feelings over anything else?-
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Keyser Söze Jack of All Trades
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Keyser Söze Jack of All Trades
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Your entrance was hideous. Your second post lazy too.
It made me uncomfortable for the following reasons:
- choosing to chip in with an irrelevant snippet over a non-issue (does it even matter? Is cesq town for saying this, is my reaction scummy/irrational?) what was the goal of your post...to say I am a liar?to say I am scum?
- failure to see how I think arguing over non-alignment/irrelevant items are a waste of time... but still wanting to start it all back up again...
- presuming "defensive"/""driving discussion away" is scum alignment indicative (my action was pro-town). Discussing whether I think I could gain town cred for post #13 is laughable and inane.
- me forgetting that this is an open set-up RE: scum day chat is a talking issue...?
- "I don't think it would be too unreasonable for someone to town-read you for trying to strike up conversation" is this you disagreeing with me or you saying I am scum, or both?
Now tell me why town-me can't think your entrance can be hideous and lazy (you called me "weirdly defensive").
Tell me why town-me can't regret making post #13 in the first place, and that we should move on swiftly.
"sorry to disappoint but I don't really have any "charged feelings" about anything else".. tell me why that shouldn't frustrate/intrigue town-me.
(if you can explain to me scum motivation for all three points I'll be more convinced of your scum read of me. please make your reply more coherent than mine )-
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Keyser Söze Jack of All Trades
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I do now and won’t be discussing it anymoreIn post 58, Irrelephant11 wrote:Oh, I get it. Yeah that was just because I was talking more to Keyser than to you - since he was the one who asked about hypoclaiming
@Keyser did you know what hypoclaiming was when you asked?
I simply wanted to know if there was an effective way of playing this setup, but don’t wanna talk about it anymore. It’s filling up the thread needlessly.-
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Keyser Söze Jack of All Trades
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My bad, I thought you said you’d be looking at the “serious” posts so far. Must have been the other burger guyIn post 55, GameNBurger wrote:Pedit: how can I write anything gamesolvery when I don’t think a majority of the players have even posted????
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Keyser Söze Jack of All Trades
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I wanted to discuss it on page one, and page one only. I don’t want D1 to become hypo-claim-gate.In post 60, Irrelephant11 wrote:You seem eager to shut down the few things we have to talk about - there's not a lot else AI yet, and it's not like the game is too long or something, so why shut things down so?
Also, my question is potentially AI. So you didn't know what hypoclaiming was when you asked?
In my eyes nothing I said/asked about it will help me solve the game, so I’m not going to discuss it further.-
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Keyser Söze Jack of All Trades
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Comments from two players revealed to me I did not understand the full measure of hypoclaiming in an open setup game. I think I already knew the essence of it though, through previous second hand sources. However, as explained previously (and now the last time), the main motivation of my initial question was to see if there was an effective way of playing this setup (and not thrusting claiming down everybodies throats).In post 64, Irrelephant11 wrote:I also don't want to discuss whether or not we should hypoclaim
I do want to know whether or not you knew what it was when you asked about it-
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Keyser Söze Jack of All Trades
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I need to correct you there. I am only shutting down myself talking about h########g.In post 60, Irrelephant11 wrote:You seem eager to shut down the few things we have to talk about - there's not a lot else AI yet, and it's not like the game is too long or something, so why shut things down so?
I am not ‘shutting down’ the whole playerlist from talking about it. Neither am I forcefully shutting down everyone from discussing AI items.
I’m actually encouraging it (talking about your t/read of NSG)
Trying to get non-setup talk from GNB.
Ascertaining the strength/sincerity of Reundo’s scum read of me.
Agree of disagree? Otherwise your post is a miss-rep, whether intentional or non-intentional.-
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Keyser Söze Jack of All Trades
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I can’t remember, but if you have a reason to scum read me why aren’t you sharing it with the playerlist? I am a viable wagon right now...? Early D1 needs wagonsIn post 66, Irrelephant11 wrote:You seem to think you know why I'm asking this, and suggesting my question is therefore bad. You don't know why I'm asking this, though, clearly, so maybe just let me play how I want to
I know trying to shut down conversations you find unfruitful is something you do as town, but it can still just be really frustrating and unhelpful to those trying to read you through their own methods
Did you know what it was before this game? yes/no is all I need and then I'll explain and we can all move on-
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Keyser Söze Jack of All Trades
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Was your vote for him not RVS? Didn’t realise there could be more meat to it? Guy’s only made one postIn post 74, Irrelephant11 wrote:Yeah that's fair
I'm pretty much over it as much as you are
Talk to me about Dunnstral-
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Keyser Söze Jack of All Trades
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Keyser Söze Jack of All Trades
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Miss-repping what I said.
I don’t give a fuck ifyou allwant speculate past page 1 about the setup or best way to play it.
But I won’t be. That’s pre-game talk and shouldn’t dominate early game progression.
Bad reason, bad vote. I am in no way obstructing town to discuss “forbidden” topics. I don’t understand how you get to scum-keyser after that limp scum case. I hate the timing of this vote.
Will vote for you when I’m on my laptop.-
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Keyser Söze Jack of All Trades
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Curious to hear more mate, ‘cause it sounded flip-floppy to me (will it depend on where the wind is blowing?)In post 88, Sesq wrote:@irrelephant i changed my mind it was less clear in post but i dont like making post edits
@keyser its more complicated than that-
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Keyser Söze Jack of All Trades
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Keyser Söze Jack of All Trades
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Which observations from Reundo strengthened your good feel about him? (“Like”)In post 91, 2 718281828459 wrote:Reundo's 46 is a little annoying but I like how he looked at everyone.
I don’t have town points on him yet.-
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Keyser Söze Jack of All Trades
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The 3 simple reads Reundo expressed did not fill me with the same confidence.
He’ll have to provide a few more deeper/visceral reads before I click the like button.
RE: “panic” - what is scum-me so panicked about? I still don’t understand how ‘scum-keyser-wanting-to-keep-forbidden-topic-to-page-1’ is an actual thing...? Show me why you think that a scum player does this (versus a town player). For what gain?
Moreover, explain to me why a player concerned with “classified information” can only come from scum (and not a townie who personally does not want to discuss the setup past page 1?)-
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Keyser Söze Jack of All Trades
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Ok, you're not as close-minded as I first thought But your list of scum tells are still terribleIn post 103, Reundo wrote:I don't believe that you can't do any of the above as town
In quick reply to your wall:
- town can call their own posts non-alignment indicative when accused of being scummy.
- both town and scum can ask if there is day chat.
- a town player can show concern if they think going down an avenue will be unproductive.
- a town player can be very concerned about being put in "bad light" for unjust causes.
- a town player can stubbornly push to try to change the subject if they think it won't help find scum.
- townies can make dumb mistakes and provide incorrect examples.
- town can "attack" the player attacking them.
Do you have any thoughts of other players?-
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Keyser Söze Jack of All Trades
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HI GNB, just trying to put together the two following statements in my head:In post 55, GameNBurger wrote:Keyser if you haven’t played wih sesq before from what I rmember sesq has a laizefair attitude and tone to their posts and keeps to themself or atleast that’s how I rmember his playstyle looking
Have you played with town-sesq displaying the same "laizefair attitude and tone"/"keeps to themselves" or was that just scum-sesq?In post 55, GameNBurger wrote:Although to be fair I played scum with them I think the last time I played with them
Or are you saying his playstyle is not indicative of alignment...?
Didn't quite understand your 'defence' of him... if you agree he is indeed showing signs of his scum-meta.
In your previous games with him, or this current game: do you think it would be rational to expect for a townie to be "stiff" in reaction to sesq's posts?In post 55, GameNBurger wrote:I think keyser is being a bit stiff on all the sesq stuff-
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Keyser Söze Jack of All Trades
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Good observation. I agree that NSG has been scumhunting
very softlyso far (not even one vote yet?). But perhaps nothing has pinged her scumdar very strongly yet. Something to keep an eye on.
I personally wouldn't jump to town lean/read yet. I wanted sesq to open up about their s/read of me, because right now I'm wondering if he actually realises his scum read/vote of me is not actually supported with anything tangible, and not possessing the town-humility to unvote (...states reasons why I'm town, but then posts "vote stays") Didn't like him describing his own play/posting as "nuanced", as if he's super aware of it (that's probably just a pet-hate of mine though). He remains near null for me. Let's see if he can share more solid thoughts/reads.
I must put my hand up and admit the development of his scum read does look town-iesh But I
cannotget past him saying "Why is Keyser wanting to limit the forbidden topic to page 1?" as if that was scum alignment indicative. I'm not convinced 2.718 is town yet. I'd like him to explain what he meant when he presented this narrative about me being scum-in-panic-mode...?-
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Keyser Söze Jack of All Trades
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I think you're the first person to understand my defensive disposition this game. Well done. Can I jump in your pocket?
If Dunnstral flips red I would actually wanna put Irrelephant under closer inspection (i.e ill-timed/ill-formed distancing attempt). Or vice versa. I've enjoyed talking to Irrelephant11 so he's on the green side of null so far.
Yup yup yup. Wouldn't mind some more pressure on Reundo. I don't know what and why Reundo is arguing. I realise I'm an easy player to provoke, but he's got to start looking at the whole playerlist, and be less fixated on this
scum-day-chat/"defensive"/hypoclaiming/"driving discussion away"scum theory non-sense. It's arguing over fluff which is concerning. Even scum-me would be laughing at his scum case on me.-
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I can accept a townie adopting a playstyle whereby they wait for reactions... however, please now share your conclusions of the reactions from your s/read of me.In post 118, Sesq wrote:its because i changed my mind but i dont like providing reasons why i scumread people because i find the reactions more interesting
your behavior is really bad but i dont know if its scum bad or town bad. leaning the former-
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weird choice of posts to share comments on:In post 117, Dunnstral wrote:
I mean it's not worse than a regular game at 3 people aliveIn post 53, GameNBurger wrote:
We have a watcher no matter what and a base 1/3 of finding scum is in fact worse than 1/2 bass chance of finding scumIn post 23, Dunnstral wrote:We end up at 4 people alive but 1 person is confirmed town (watcher) or there's a cc
So it's not worse
Unless you’re talking about something else I’m not reading because this doesn’t exactly communicate the idea clearly
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Keyser I don't think I caught you in the game we played, not sure why you think I should be "taking lead" today either
This is bad preflip stuff and you have to jump to a lot of conclusions to get to this point - also it's not warranted at this timeKeyser Söze wrote: If Dunnstral flips red I would actually wanna put Irrelephant under closer inspection (i.e ill-timed/ill-formed distancing attempt). Or vice versa. I've enjoyed talking to Irrelephant11 so he's on the green side of null so far.
VOTE: Sesq
This is a good place to put a serious vote
- first one about set-up talk
- second one about a previous game
- third one about early D1 pre-flip paranoia
- unexplained vote-
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Keyser Söze Jack of All Trades
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Hey sesq, problem is I can see both scum and town being frustrated with you if you’re “scumreading without explanations” - how do you differentiate the “reactions”?In post 124, Sesq wrote:okay it feels like nobody gets that post which is fine because i could have formatted it better. i said "yeah hes probably town" and the last words were "wait no, i think hes scum." and previously i have seen productive things out of scumreading without explanations so its something i try to use, although devotion to the ideal should be contextual
the main problem i have with his play is that it feels like he is walking into the game with a heavy amount of rigid thinking over what can and cannot be discussed and how things should or should not go. i think this is a scum playstyle because in rigidity you can form solid ideas to build off of that dont require the sort of improvisational fervour one needs as a scumplayer without strategy. that said the goals are seemingly cryptic and i dont really understand them, and it could be a weird fusion of learned behaviors influenced by past results in games, but i havent played with him before so i dont know. feel comfortable on it for now.-
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Keyser Söze Jack of All Trades
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I meant weird in a suspicious way (not towny).In post 122, Dunnstral wrote:I'd rather be weird than scummy
I’ll wait for your full catchup.-
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Keyser Söze Jack of All Trades
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You've ignored some of the more pertinent (AI) moments of the game so far to share observations of 3 areas I'm not sure will help you find scum.In post 128, Dunnstral wrote:
Can you explain why this is suspicious?In post 121, Keyser Söze wrote:weird choice of posts to share comments on:
- first one about set-up talk
- second one about a previous game
- third one about early D1 pre-flip paranoia
- unexplained vote
Plus, curious to see your naked vote explained (it's not RVS, as you said it's "serious").-
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I don't think he has...(?). But there's not much to his ISO yet. He needs to catchup and post some relevant thoughts.In post 131, Irrelephant11 wrote:Keyser do you think it's true or not that Dunnstral was responding to everything said to/about him?-
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Ah ok - well, you were the first person to name drop him (bring direct attention to his slot), but he hasn't addressed your suspicion yet...?In post 133, Irrelephant11 wrote:Sure - I just mean the list of things he talked about were all responses to things said to/about him-
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Wise words which I agree with. Willing to put that whole mess behind me, as I ended up arguing over fluff myself.In post 139, Ausuka wrote:I mean, sometimes people disagree on what's AI, I don't think that makes 2.718 scum.-
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You expressed many null reads in your recent reads list, why not engage with them?In post 182, 2 718281828459 wrote:I see nothing that is worth my attention.-
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Keyser Söze Jack of All Trades
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Still don’t understand what you’re sayingIn post 181, Sesq wrote:by "detached" i meant that his rigidity was detached, its like he wasnt really thinking but just banking on his own logic
Can you go one more level deeper in explaining it? Are you saying I am being tactically close-minded/stubborn?-
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Keyser Söze Jack of All Trades
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Sounds like Kop knows I’m town, that’s a relief
Not sure I buy into NSG’s “staccato sentence/comma” theory - unless you can clearly show Kop only posting this style as scum, I think it’s too reachy for my taste.
I actually liked Toranaga’s entrance, but where’s the vote?
I can see / clearly read Volxen’s posts, but don’t feel like they’ve opened up yet (free flowing posting). Feels too laboured/restricted at the moment.
Irrelephant11 throwing his vote around is consistent with his last town game with me... do you do this regardless of alignment?-
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Keyser Söze Jack of All Trades
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You’re probably reading too much into this. This game has zero traction and minimal interactions.In post 204, Irrelephant11 wrote:I was looking to start a wagon, and Reundo seemed lynchbait-y enough that some scum might jump on after it had three votes
That didn't happen, so I'm wondering if that makes him scummy (partners avoided him) or if this game is just this game
I keep coming back to the thread hoping to see us on page 20 but it’s the same few players talking to each other. So far an unhealthy start to D1
How can we kickstart it?-
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Keyser Söze Jack of All Trades
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Noticed you gave Dunnstral a defiant “town” read.In post 87, Irrelephant11 wrote:mm I think I want Dunnstral to know he's being scrutinized
he tricked me in lylo last time we played together so prolly he already knows that anyway
You think he reacted well to your “scrutiny”? Why is he town?
(If we can’t scum hunt, we can at least hunt town).-
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Keyser Söze Jack of All Trades
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I would have expected you to personally vote someone here... do you not like any of the current wagons?In post 215, 2 718281828459 wrote:Can we get some pressure wagons? This game is getting boring.-
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