Open 775: Hard-Boiled Eggs [Game Over]

[Hiraki]

Vote: 72offsuit

[Hiraki]

Feeling pretty good on my 72offsuit SR.

[Hiraki]

Feeling pretty good on my 72offsuit SR.

Wanna elaborate?

Perhaps later. I am sure the true tells will show soon enough or I will be wrong.

[Hiraki]

Don't necessarily agree with the above but it comes from town.

[Hiraki]

Don't necessarily agree with the above but it comes from town.

What makes you say that?

Experience.

[Hiraki]

VOTE: tet

What brought about this?

What don't you agree with?

I think the "it'll give mafia info" is bullshit. setup strategy spec is important to hash out early on as to optimize what we can do mechanically.

This.

I'm not convinced yet Orange would stick his neck out like that for no reason if he was scum, much more likely to fade into background agreeing with majority.

People should stop talking about roles, it doesn't benefit village and gives the werewolves more information than they deserve about who is or isn't what role. If you feel the need to discuss the setup, do so in a way that doesn't spew you as not X role. Hider outing is a terrible idea, optimal play for hider is to hide behind their strongest townread each night unless that player is vulnerable to a nightkill and if hider outs then it becomes very simple to narrow down who they are going to visit at night. Vigilante is also a lot more power for town than tracker, and the vigilante should be shooting the counterwagon each night, so as long as the vigilante is doing their job there should never be any real risk of the vigilante inadvertently hitting the hider. Detective/psychologist is going to have false positives with a vigilante around but that should never be a serious issue when claims happen, as long as they are sensible and don't out on day 2 or day 3 if they happen to get an early result.

I completely disagree with most of this.

However, reference to werewolves, when it's obvious you know there are no werewolves in the game (because you've read the setup) did make me happy, happyorange. I'd consider this quite a bold open from scum, so giving benefit of doubt.

Not good.

Nah, you're just desperate to vote for me because I'm voting for you, and you're struggling to find any excuse.

Aggression and confidence can be good if you have something strong to back it up. You don't, so seems like it's just an act (which is trait of a scum player). Especially when you opened up with "hello, this is my first non-newbie game", which was about as soft as it gets, and by page 4 you'd moved to stuff like:

VI - I take it back.

It might be your first game, but panicking about 1 vote on Page 4 isn't a good look.

Need more proof?

[Hiraki]

1. What did u mean by not good?

It wasn't a good post.

2. What do u mean by VI i take it back?

Village Idiot.

VOTE: allomancer
wagon

Can you help me? I don't see it.

I don't like the Battle Mage vs DkKoba conflict. Both feel like egotistical players not willing to back down from a challenge. Either could be scum or town from what I've seen. I really don't understand battle mage's argument that because dkkoba said he's new but is also aggressive that means he's scum, though.

Yeah, I definitely don't see this slot flipping scum right now.

Don't tell me that I'm that old. And even older than that.

You're ancient and so is Marshall Matthers, lol

---

• I know nothing of setup spec, so I stay out of it.
  
• We need to lynch everyone without an avatar
  
• @72: Hiraki's avatar is 9S from NieR:Automata. It's a really fun game.

VOTE: Madoka Hey!

I've got my eye on you.

Would prefer a better explanation here.

[Hiraki]

Ah, got it. IGMEOY is a mafia term - just wasn't sure if it was being used for that purpose. I see what it means now. Carry on everyone.

[Hiraki]

Ech. Not a fan of that after thinking about it for a moment.

[Hiraki]

He states that it's town vs scum but his wording makes it sound like town v town. I don't see scum making that move too often and, if so, it's calculated. That post feels off the cuffs.

[Hiraki]

Hold on....so all that was just a coded way to call me an idiot? keep it classy, and feel free to share some more fascinating insights with the group

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... lage_Idiot

Feel free to educate yourself before you think I'm being derogatory.

He states that it's town vs scum but his wording makes it sound like town v town. I don't see scum making that move too often and, if so, it's calculated. That post feels off the cuffs.

Where does he say it's town vs scum?

Sorry, you're right. It's just a good feel. You can think what you want from that.

also why are you pushing allomancer based on setup spec when literally the entire game so far has been exactly that?

Bingo.

This questioning of Allom gives me a fake/forced/pre-prepared vibe. Getting a scum-scum vibe from this interaction.

vibe

You are making this hard work to follow the thread.

Rawr!

Hi. I see your Rawr, and reraise to RAAAAAAAAAAAWR!

You're making it much easier.

I really don't see any town reasoning behind Dkkoba's recent posts.
VOTE: DkKoba

Yucky.

[Hiraki]

I really don't see any town reasoning behind Dkkoba's recent posts.
VOTE: DkKoba

then what do you see? this is so superficial it makes me cringe

do you scumread his intention? do you see a scum setting something up?

->what and which posts make you scumread dkkoba?

VOTE: allomancer

I don't like this either. When do you vote someone after a simple line of questioning without an answer?

[Hiraki]

Iconeum and I are vibing HARD. He can do all of the typing for me at this point that you guys might want.

[Hiraki]

Yeah, I'm not liking Looker too much either but I'm not sure if that's playstyle or scum yet. Need to keep watching.

[Hiraki]

Hold on....so all that was just a coded way to call me an idiot? keep it classy, and feel free to share some more fascinating insights with the group

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... lage_Idiot

Feel free to educate yourself before you think I'm being derogatory.

Did you even read the thing you linked to? I'll reiterate my advice - showing a bit of manners/courtesy goes a long way! <3

There's nothing derogatory in the quote. If you're offended by it for some strange reason, that's your problem - not mine.

Thoughts on Allo?

Conflicted but don't think I can join this wagon.

[Hiraki]

Wow, what a great meta dive. You just said I'm bad at scum and good at town. Would it be bad to admit that I am a 100% better scumhunter as scum and 100% worse scumhunter as town? Or would you need to read more than 2 games that I ended on? Pretty annoying to read all of that, might just stop and pin you down as town next time and ignore for the meanwhile.

[Hiraki]

This whole game is a soup of ??? but at this rate I'll probably end up voting hiraki at the end of the day, don't know if their weird attempts to gaslight mage by calling them an idiot then insisting they aren't being rude by doing so actually make them a wolf given the way people seem to be behaving in general in this game, but I can see a world where they're going the discredit etc route as a wolf either because they want to make it easier to mislynch mage or because they want to dumpster mage's thread standing. Don't see any reason for them to do it as village other than out of simple mean spiritedness. Don't really know what my read on mage is, think I'd probably be townreading them if it weren't for the peformative way they've been engaging with people. Don't know if they're consciously presenting themselves in a performative manner or if I'm just perceiving their personality that way, or something else.

@Mod: Can I quote from the Mafiascum wiki? I know some mods aren't super cool with that.

That's not how it works! Definitely scummy attitude here.

Hiraki's attitude to the game isn't a tell - he swears a lot and can be unduly aggressive regardless of alignment.

Contradicting yourself right after is pretty neat.

because they want to make it easier to mislynch mage or because they want to dumpster mage's thread standing.

Play a game with me - before this post, Mage was townreading me even after being "derragatory" to him. Why would I want to do that?

Also - I have never ever said I wanted to mislynch him. If anything, I've made it clear that you should not trust anything he says but just mark him down as town and move on.

[Hiraki]

Which is then why you voted me after looking at 2 games, both of which have not even happened close to this point in time. It's like if I took your games from 2008 at this point. I'm not going to do that because that's practically useless information.

[Hiraki]

Village Idiot (VI for short) is slang for a player who seems to habitually say or do the wrong things, then not understand the consequences of saying them. Most of the time, this tendency is due to inexperience with the game. Other times, it is due to poor intelligence or social skills on the part of the player. Still other times, the person saying these wrong things really is scum.

Let's continue on from here.

Aggression and confidence can be good if you have something strong to back it up. You don't, so seems like it's just an act (which is trait of a scum player). Especially when you opened up with "hello, this is my first non-newbie game", which was about as soft as it gets, and by page 4 you'd moved to stuff like:

"I implore people to put pressure on orange and make them explain themselves."
"If something speaks like scum, then it probably is scum."



For above reasons, and the transparent threat to vote for me even though you are apparently convinced that orange is scum, I'd be comfortable lynching you today.

It might be your first game, but panicking about 1 vote on Page 4 isn't a good look.

dkkoba, you're not wrong about the logic, obviously. You might be right about orange, but I'm not convinced for the moment. I think the idea that putting pressure on orange to "explain themselves" is a fools errand - clearly orange can't explain it satisfactorily, so you're setting him up to fail.

All of the above quotes are overconfident, over-assuming, and even down-right wrong at times but come from a town perspective than a scum perspective. This is before Battle Mage calls me out for the "shade" rather than the truth. This isn't something I want to discuss anymore so I'm not going to and I'm going to stick to my rules.

I think I'm good on this game atm. I have a townpool that I don't want to mess around with. The following people are

not

in that pool and I would be OK with lynching any of them: 72, happy, DrDolittle, Looker, ejji. Would not be surprised if the scumteam is in this range.

[Hiraki]

I can join in on happy.

Unvote, Vote: Happyorange

[Hiraki]

There's a term for that DkKoba!

[Hiraki]

People should stop talking about roles, it doesn't benefit village and gives the werewolves more information than they deserve about who is or isn't what role. If you feel the need to discuss the setup, do so in a way that doesn't spew you as not X role. Hider outing is a terrible idea, optimal play for hider is to hide behind their strongest townread each night unless that player is vulnerable to a nightkill and if hider outs then it becomes very simple to narrow down who they are going to visit at night. Vigilante is also a lot more power for town than tracker, and the vigilante should be shooting the counterwagon each night, so as long as the vigilante is doing their job there should never be any real risk of the vigilante inadvertently hitting the hider. Detective/psychologist is going to have false positives with a vigilante around but that should never be a serious issue when claims happen, as long as they are sensible and don't out on day 2 or day 3 if they happen to get an early result.

This whole game is a soup of ??? but at this rate I'll probably end up voting hiraki at the end of the day, don't know if their weird attempts to gaslight mage by calling them an idiot then insisting they aren't being rude by doing so actually make them a wolf given the way people seem to be behaving in general in this game, but I can see a world where they're going the discredit etc route as a wolf either because they want to make it easier to mislynch mage or because they want to dumpster mage's thread standing. Don't see any reason for them to do it as village other than out of simple mean spiritedness. Don't really know what my read on mage is, think I'd probably be townreading them if it weren't for the peformative way they've been engaging with people. Don't know if they're consciously presenting themselves in a performative manner or if I'm just perceiving their personality that way, or something else.

These are town posts

No they're not.

[Hiraki]

People should stop talking about roles, it doesn't benefit village and gives the werewolves more information than they deserve about who is or isn't what role. If you feel the need to discuss the setup, do so in a way that doesn't spew you as not X role. Hider outing is a terrible idea, optimal play for hider is to hide behind their strongest townread each night unless that player is vulnerable to a nightkill and if hider outs then it becomes very simple to narrow down who they are going to visit at night. Vigilante is also a lot more power for town than tracker, and the vigilante should be shooting the counterwagon each night, so as long as the vigilante is doing their job there should never be any real risk of the vigilante inadvertently hitting the hider. Detective/psychologist is going to have false positives with a vigilante around but that should never be a serious issue when claims happen, as long as they are sensible and don't out on day 2 or day 3 if they happen to get an early result.

This whole game is a soup of ??? but at this rate I'll probably end up voting hiraki at the end of the day, don't know if their weird attempts to gaslight mage by calling them an idiot then insisting they aren't being rude by doing so actually make them a wolf given the way people seem to be behaving in general in this game, but I can see a world where they're going the discredit etc route as a wolf either because they want to make it easier to mislynch mage or because they want to dumpster mage's thread standing. Don't see any reason for them to do it as village other than out of simple mean spiritedness. Don't really know what my read on mage is, think I'd probably be townreading them if it weren't for the peformative way they've been engaging with people. Don't know if they're consciously presenting themselves in a performative manner or if I'm just perceiving their personality that way, or something else.

These are town posts

No they're not.

This was a real VI post!

Very Informative.

Never seen someone so butthurt before that people would agree with me lol

[Hiraki]

I will eventually get the motivation to talk about 72, if you are insinuating something there. I still think 75% of his posts are bad and it's annoying how I'll have to fight for this.

[Hiraki]

Hiraki you wont need to fight for it with a clear on your side.

Actually, yes I will? This isn't epicmafia bub.

[Hiraki]

Oh boy.

[Hiraki]

Not keen on either Orange or Allomancer - does anyone have a good reason for voting for them?

Are you even reading the game?

[Hiraki]

Sure, laziness isn't. People have talked about that. Why not refute them?

[Hiraki]

DkK - A50 usually posts like this. There's nothing wrong with it, don't be a hater.

[Hiraki]

I don't think you have the authority to call anyone out for a nooby playstyle.

[Hiraki]

Either you point out something I've done that is legitimately "nooby" this game or you can drop it and go back to actually playing, I have no patience for players who think they know better at a social deduction game because they joined forum site at an earlier date.

ironic

why call someone else nooby for having a different opinion? that's pretty basic in of itself

I'm not really up for discussing it. You can read my completed game / ask Looker/Hiraki for meta.

FYI - no one can ask me this. Thanks!

[Hiraki]

Actually, re-reading 418 and 423, I'll retract.

UNVOTE: Battle Mage

This is beautiful. Knew I wasn't wrong here.

[Hiraki]

Actually, re-reading 418 and 423, I'll retract.

UNVOTE: Battle Mage

This is beautiful. Knew I wasn't wrong here.

Explain please.

Better than expected posting.

What's the purpose of discussing it right now? Philosophy discussion just gives scum a way to post stuff without actually contributing.

This is stupid.

I feel like this is a lot of drumroll for something that promises to be anticlimactic.

This is correct.

468 to 471 is just one stinky poo poo split into 4 posts.

I wanna say that I respectfully disagree with your ejjilmost scumread, I was townreading that based off of tone and the post related to hider claiming (which didn't benefit scum AT ALL)

Thank you. A50 has been redeeming eji, not making him worse. I don't think a flaking player justifies the current response of the current player.

i like the position of most of your reads, kinda

Yucky.

The proposed lynch pool of 5 players is way too much, does not feel townie, feels like a survivalist scattershotgun approach. Any lynch, just not me. sort of mindset.

It's called townhunting?

Worse yet, doesn't direct any questions at me or dissect any posts to try to sort out my slot.

Coincidentally, this is also the first time you've posted real content. Look at that. Why do I need to ask you questions to sort out your slot? Can't I do that without consulting you? All I really need is to convince other people, hopefully townies, that you are scum and then hopefully I'm right. That's the name of this game - it's not about you proving your innocence. That would be my judgment to make.

Ech. Not a fan of that after thinking about it for a moment.

Not a fan of what? I can't remember if I already asked this.

The post above it.

my only solid tr right now is 72

Yikes

[Hiraki]

Btw - I can join orange if it is actually L-2. I don't want to count atm and I don't want to accidentally hammer.

@Mod: Votecount please?

[Hiraki]

hiraki why is 72 not town, why are you shading my strongest TR?

The better question is why are you TRing him because there's literally nothing about him that reads town. Some null, for sure, but nothing that says town.

Why did you not know who you were voting?

I thought I was still voting you. Is it scummy to forget?

He does it often.

Only when things are going slow.

I wouldn't go so far as to say all that. It's just that reads are subjective. And they change.

Everything in those posts are forced. You can smell it. Why on earth would you ISO every player

before

doing an ISO on them? Wouldn't you want to do the analysis FIRST and then go into a reads-list? Everything is just picture perfect there. Feel free to tell me that you've been right about what you feel on a mafia game about almost every player before doing the analysis on them that just

happens

to coincide with how they're doing.

actually orange said something that gave them away as an alt I think

Why are you stuck on this?

VOTE: 72

Wow. No questions asked.

---

• @Madoka: You said that you liked his tone and that you were going to sleep. You also said you were only voting because Ico made you.

VOTE: Hiraki Replace Allomancer with happyorange

p-edit: Because you never mentioned it. All your stuff is about meeting old friends

Strange, overall. This is why you will never be TR'd in my book (the vote is the least concerning part FYI)

559 is a great post, everyone should read it.

Currently yea. I'll have a more detailed post in a bit. Actually, I guess I can post what I have currently.

Very confused by most of this post. Hopefully there are clarifications.

Hiraki, you should sheep me since your reads are pretty bad.

Pass.

The progression of his read here in Allom doesnt feel genuine to me,
and the one on one interaction with DDL just feels awkward.

Are you even reading the posts?

I agree. Currently for me it's [Almost, Looker, ddl] > [ddl, Alo, Allo] or some mix of the two. Everyone in the kinder group I put there because I like their tone but haven't been able to solidify a town read. I also liked Alo's backtrack on BM after reading the context and his assertive agreement with the hider strategy. Your case here is very convincing, however.

Really???

[Hiraki]

Wow that was a pretty useless statement by Madoka.

[Hiraki]

Oh-oh-oh n-n-n-no, w-what shall I d-do? Should I ask my s-s-scum PT?

[Hiraki]

Are you talking to me?

[Hiraki]

Suuuuuuuure, okay. You just decided to start thinking of DDL after talking with me.

[Hiraki]

Orange and BM are you still open to lynching Hiraki?

Do you want to also address why you asked two people, one of which you rated less townie than me, if they'd be up for going after me, without stating anything of your own, rather than any of your town reads, one of which has been against me for the entire game?

You can literally never ever call my reads bad if you can't even keep yours consistent.

[Hiraki]

So...you did call your vote part of the town???

[Hiraki]

Well I mean you're a part of it too as you generally play cagey. That's what brought it up in my mind, but ddl is the main culprit.

These games would be so much easier if town just played like town. I never understoid the point of making it unnecessarily difficult.

Orange and BM are you still open to lynching Hiraki?

VOTE: Hiraki

One of these things is not like the others. One of these things doesn't belong. Can you tell which thing is not like the other before the time I finish this song?

[Hiraki]

@Hiraki: You didn't specify why I'll never be TR'd in your book or what Almost50 has done to redeem ejjinami

Do I need to?

[Hiraki]

confirm vote lol

[Hiraki]

you're already voting me why do you need to confirm it?

just because you're acting like an idiot doesn't mean that i can't make fun of you for it

[Hiraki]

i already have bub, i don't expect you to read - here let me copy you for a moment

Haha! Did you say something?

It's okay! No one takes your reads seriously anyway!

[Hiraki]

Let's ignore the discrepancy itself, then, and focus on the fact that she lied: 643, 645. Regardless of the reason why she changed her view on Monkey (change in mind or fake progression), the fact that she lied about her reason shows that it was not sincere.

Why is it more scum-inclined to be insincere about changing his mind rather than town-inclined? Do you think he just did a little sprinkle of distaste, when there was nothing happening on the slot, and then shoo'd away from it? I don't disagree with you that it's weird, I even looked into it. I don't think it's worth making this much of a fuss about either though. There are plenty of other things that are actually bad about Looker and this is just a dumb one. If you want to mislynch A51 after we see Looker flip scum, sure. I won't try and stop you.

You are absolutely correct that 72's initial postings are absolute horrible and I haven't been able to shake them off. Especially the Hider CC one. I feel like I noted at least one or two of them early on.

[Hiraki]

Hello, this is my first non newbie game.

I'm going to go ahead and VOTE: Aloratom[/vpte]

That's what you get for calling me bad in the last game we played together in >:(

I don't have a good history with a few on this roster.

Who have you previously played with?

This post started it and it made me question whether or not I was looking at 72 the wrong way. You can go through his ISO there are a slew of these random one-off posts that are questions that have zero importance and are there just to look like they have meaning. You may remember that I

hate

using meta as a basis for a read but in the early game, I'm okay with it. Here are some of 72's old games.

Newbie 1989 - Town Flip - viewtopic.php?t=82324&f=11&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

Newbie 1994 - Town Flip - viewtopic.php?t=82538&f=11&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

Newbie 1990 - Town Flip - viewtopic.php?t=82380&f=11&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

You'll notice that these are all town flips - not a good test but I'll go with what I got. In all three of these games, 72 seems like an articulate and well-thought out scumhunter. This game? No - not really. I don't think many people think that. And that ISO post really ticks me off as this is bad fabrication because in all of his other games, he seems to actually analyze first and then make the reads second. He even kicks down the door when replacing in one game and puts down a read list in his first post with clear reasoning behind it. Again - nothing case worthy - but it doesn't need to be either. It's clearly well-thought out. His posting in this game seems like darts on a board.

Town Read: rg
Town Lean: WS, JV
Slight Town Lean: Natsu, Maple
Null with a pinch of Town: Non
Scum Read: Recti and trq

Furthermore the combo of Recti and trq makes sense.

Boom, game solved. And I'm not joking here either.
To be honest, I've never felt more convinced that I've find scum on day one and I think I have a pretty decent track record to date. <3

Just read

that

and tell me if we're playing with the same player.

Here's the post in this game:

Townread
DK

Townlean
Tet
Madoka

Null
Ico
Looker
HO

Null-scum
Hiraki

Scumlean
Allom

Scumread
DDL
Alora
Ejji

I could go on and on about the articulate differences (of which I think is the most important!) of these two but it's also not worth it because I don't think meta is the end all anyway.

[Hiraki]

Yeah, I was debating whether or not to get into it, I kind of got my writing skills going a little and since you asked, I can. It's a little late here so excuse the stupider thoughts. I still like to think that putting your thoughts down before analysis is super foreboding and I don't get how people don't get that. It is a stupidly common scumtactic for me and something that I actively try to avoid when playing scum (i.e. I'll realize that I am doing it and take a step back in order to look more townie).

[Hiraki]

I mean, I'm for both wagons. I have a good feeling both flip red. I just would rather get my thoughts out now than later.

[Hiraki]

I'd like to start this by addressing how I think optimal scum is played - I don't think you do it by careful meticulous planning. My best scum games have been ones where everyone just

vibes

together. Sure, there's a general plan of "don't lynch each other" but other than that, it's very free flow. I still think that is the best way to do things outside of a PR perspective. This is exactly where we are on Day 1. However, I am aware that most people don't really think this way and I consciously think that in my scumhunting.

Hide: every night, you may PM me with the name of someone who you want to hide behind. If that player is a member of the mafia or the vigilante, you will die. If the player you hide behind is targeted for a nightkill by the mafia or vigilante that night, you will die. If you are targeted for a nightkill on a night that you hide behind someone else, that nightkill will not affect you.

Doesnt sound that op. 3 scum. So first night 3/12 = 25 percent chance hide behond scum = insta death.

1/9 chance hide behind town that is being killled thus also die.

Worth noting, i think, is
With a claim, scum knows not to waste a kill opportunity targeting the hider's slot.

A claim for a clear that cant b targeted still sounds +EV.

When I read this post 100 times, 99 times I'm wondering what is the point of this post. Is it to produce content? Yeah, a little. Is it to talk about the hider claim? Sure. But 100 times I feel like there's an underlying complaint here and that's no good for me. Read the following:

Doesnt sound that op. 3 scum. So first night 3/12 = 25 percent chance hide behond scum = insta death.

Now, I know that less than half of the players in this group will be persuaded by this but this ticks me off super hard. This is a complaint through and through. Anyone who is town would be super happy finding something that is "OP", instead this feels like it's a bad sign. If we go on -

1/9 chance hide behind town that is being killled thus also die.

Worth noting, i think, is
With a claim, scum knows not to waste a kill opportunity targeting the hider's slot.

A claim for a clear that cant b targeted still sounds +EV.

This is borderline scum coaching without a PT. It's subtle and I don't expect anyone to be persuaded by this but I really wanted to hone in why this read has stuck with me since the absolute beginning.

Perhaps later. I am sure the true tells will show soon enough or I will be wrong.

I even note that here that the above isn't worth arguing over or making a big stink over but now that we're here, cats out of the bag. The true tells are here, by the way.

Posts are all Information instead of analysis.
Pretty much only setup speculation. Zero reads. Zero player analysis.

Let's stop here for a second too. If anyone can find any reads instead of analysis from 72 before this point, please let me know. The only thing you get close to is a TvT callout which is just information

without

analysis (something that is just as bad, if not worse, than IIoA).

Allomancer's setup spec was useless, unlike several others which were actually useful eg: tet, Madoka, DK.

This is an

opinion

of his analysis rather than Allomancer actually only giving IIoA. The tell is used incorrectly as noted here. I think Ico even points this out and I agree with him but I am not checking myself at 1:40. I just sort of remembering agreeing from behind the computer when I read his posts at 72.

This questioning of Allom gives me a fake/forced/pre-prepared vibe. Getting a scum-scum vibe from this interaction.
Allom already outed some superficial reads after i pressed him.

Again, opinion, not really concrete and not really diving into detail. But it's post 156 - we don't really need to get into that.

Lynch preferences: 1.Allomancer

We're 200 posts later and 72 is still tunneling on Allomancer? There's no read progression here. I'm literally re-reading his ISO and didn't pick up on this the first time because I already marked him. When 72 flips scum, Allomancer is like super confirmed town.

Allom - reasons stated earlier. Post since then have been pretty much NAI, so still just a scumlean.

Reasons stated earlier are

still

setup speculation made in post 115 and 116. Allomancer has done a TON since then and 72 is just parking and lurking on the wagon.

[Hiraki]

foreboding means bad?

It's 130 here. Foreboding was a weird word choice. Bad works, yeah. Just something in general that pings my head to say that slot is not town.

No one put anyone at L-1 until they've come back and had a chance to make the case they promised. There are too many lolhammerers on this forum. There's no need for L-1 with more than 2 days left.

This is simply wrong. Not putting him at L-1 ASAP is bad play. There's no real pressure with L-2. Any lolhammerers will get punished.
You say there's no need with 2 days left, so you want to wait until the last moment?
And what if he claims a PR then? You go for a No-Lynch? You switch last minute and HOPE enough people line up to get a lynch?

Thanks. Was going to generally say all of this. I've promised and not delivered as scum only to slip away later.

[Hiraki]

It wasn't genuine though and the fact that she had to make up a reason for her change on Monkey after I called her out, indicates that. It's not like she was expecting me to call her out. She had to make up the reason afterwards and thus is the reason why it doesn't line up. If it were town!Looker who simply changed her mind, she simply would have said that. I don't see why you think town would make up a reason?

Not really addressing my main concern here. What makes Lookertown do it versus Lookerscum do it? I don't have a great grasp on who Looker is but from their posts, I've gotten the following:

1) Not very big, kind of short, and really question-y before running away to something that could have been good.
2) Really not informative, kind of going hand in hand with that last point.
3) Super safe.

I don't know if any of these actually change for Lookerscum versus Lookertown. It's a little bit of a mix of a meta read - without reading meta - and an experience read. Posts like these don't give me confidence -

Don't tell me that I'm that old. And even older than that.

You're ancient and so is Marshall Matthers, lol

---

• I know nothing of setup spec, so I stay out of it.
  
• We need to lynch everyone without an avatar
  
• @72: Hiraki's avatar is 9S from NieR:Automata. It's a really fun game.

VOTE: Madoka Hey!

Sure, this is a post in the 120's but a lot has gone on since the beginning of this game to this moment.

• This game is a bunch of rabble right now. Overconfidence and loud voices. It's easy to notice Tet and Koba, but not so much Battle Mage

VOTE: DrDolittle

Again - I agree with your scumread. I just have problems with the logic that got you there and the complications that may arise when he flips scum (i.e. associations).

No I don't want to wait for the last moment, but it's silly to put them at L-1 when they just promised content. Additionally, there's no rule that says a person needs to be at L-1 to claim. I always found that pretty silly. You should claim if it looks like you're going to get lynched. No need to be in the red zone to do it.

And if they did claim a PR at the last moment that would actually be amazing because the scrambling during those times is where the best reads come from.

Reeks of actual inexperience on how to deal with these situations. Alts don't make anyone better by covering their name.

[Hiraki]

I don't get why he would be coaching since they have day talk?

They don't? Re-read the role PMs.

Regarding alt thing, I don't know what you mean. I've been playing since 08. Speaking of alt, why did you ask why I was focused on orange being one when I was just answering ddl's question two posts above?

It was the arrogant stuff and your join date is 2020.

I don't like to respond to people who wolfread me for a bunch of reasons, but the main ones are that

a) I'm always going to be biased given that I have my own opinions about how people should be perceiving me and what were intentions were when saying different things, so trying to get a read on other people from the way they're reading me incorrectly is imo a very unreliable way to form reads and not something I care for doing,

b) engaging with people on why they think I'm a wolf is a good way to muddy the thread with relatively unreadable nonsense, I'm not the right person to convince someone they're wrong about me because from their perspective if I'm a wolf I'm just going to be lying to them and telling them what they want to hear, and the majority of the time when people read you incorrectly there's no amount of things you can tell them about how they're wrong that will make them change their read, it's a different story if they have concerns about you that they ask you about specifically but that's not often the case, most of the time if they're going to realize they're wrong on you they're going to do it on their terms and not yours, trying to make it happen on your terms is a fast track to toxic game environments and burn out,

c) it's a waste of my time when I could be writing about other players, my thoughts on them and other things that would actually help me solve the game, think it's incredibly boring to talk about myself to other people or talk with them about me and doing so doesn't do anything for me, it's not why I play werewolf and never will be.

This is all well stated and all but it absolutely does not change my read.

I'll make a post going over my reads next but please actually read the above and start proposing other lynches that actually make sense and aren't the result of lazy tunneling and complacency.

Here's the only line you actually need to read in that post.

@Hiraki: "Plenty of things that are bad". Are you going to specify?

Perhaps later. What is it the matter to you? Do you think you can sway my opinion on what you already did?

yo madoka are you just scum or?

I haven't played with Madoka, as far as I know, but we just ended a game where she pulled this same shit. Kind of fueling my TR in some weird way.

'scum!me defends orange because of the easy credit i'd get when he flips town'

-> defends orange like a boss

thanks

Unfortunately, this is how Madoka acted in that game as well. I'm not defending but this is literally Madoka thinking. It's annoying and not very logical.

Like I made a tiny case on you and you start throwing chairs. Imagine if Orange reacted in a similar proportion to your much more extensive case.

Not really true.

i'm about to flash wagon you DDL. why won't you vote orange?

*unsheathes katana*

[Hiraki]

Unvote, Vote: 72

[Hiraki]

hiraki stop throwing a fit

???

[Hiraki]

Any1 wanna flashwagon allomancer? I do

i prefer madoka at this point
really really disliking his position wrt to 'voting orange to please me'

Wait you're actually serious? In the words of Hiraki and happyorange: yikes.

Those are not my words about this situation.

[Hiraki]

you already said i'm scum why would an FOS matter?? i answered all of your questions in there btw, none of what you said didn't matter and didn't actually answer my fustrations. it was originally 90% but it's honestly none

[Hiraki]

Hiraki conveniently runs away 9 minutes after his post when i wiestion him where i scumread him earlier

imagine having a life?

[Hiraki]

Null-scum
Hiraki

lol

[Hiraki]

imagine bitching about such an easy to find answer like it was impossible to find

[Hiraki]

Unvote, Vote: DrDoolittle

we do not have time to argue over lynches anymore

[Hiraki]

Null-scum
Hiraki

lol

Lol i call u null-scum and shift you to full scum and you question my FoS?
Fail.

yeah it would be ironic if you said that you were suspecting me (null-scum, even moreso in your "analysis") and then you came out with another post that said that you were suspecting me of being scum - like wow, what a game changer

[Hiraki]

16 hours. Anyone off ddl that doesn't vote him in their next post is advocating for a no lynch.

Nope. I'll be around to jump on the DDL wagon if needed. But for now, there's plenty enough time to lynch your friend Iconeum!

I'm good.

You're not that good

What did you mean here, BM?

Yeah, BM doesn't have balls. Willing to backhand you and use those stupid mafiascum emojis but when actually asked to be put on the spot, he's nowhere to be seen!

1027 and 1028 both feel scummy, like BM is trying to get Dk to reveal who he visited, which I don't think is in town's interest. Better for him and the tracker to keep it quiet until one of them dies or we're about to mislynch a conftown.

VOTE: Battle Mage

I can see how you can see this but this is just BM shitty "i'm better than all of you!" posting. That being said, BM has distracted this game so much that I am pretty much willing to do a PL because there's no way this game goes on and he doesn't get shot as a townie.

Oh yea, what did you mean here, BM?

What did you mean here, BM?

Glad you brought it back up.

[Hiraki]

Answer Madoka's question, if you want. We all know you won't because it's a shitty thing to say and that's coming from

me

of all people.

[Hiraki]

So you don't want to answer Madoka's question, got it. No pressure!

[Hiraki]

Yeah, I know you don't care because you're a dick. Don't call players out for no reason.

[Hiraki]

I think the tags on the above got messed up.

I'm going to table my 72 read because it seems like no one actually really fundamentally agrees with it. I think I know how to end today with an easy scumlynch.

Vote: Looker

[Hiraki]

My reads have been bad this game, oh well. Maybe I'm off somewhere with 72 scum. I can join Ico because his reads have been correct so far. Don't mind if that means me at the end of the day either (not WIFOMing, just think that town is in a great position to take the W here when my reads have been called garbage and have been wrong as well).

weren't you trying to lynch me at the end of last day?

If I'm being honest, I initially scumread these flipflops (as noted before) but I think this may just be 72's townstyle which would make his scumstyle more conservative. I am sticking to the fact that it does not align with his meta but I am not one to think meta is the end all anyway.

Last post in 1110. Feels like scum that's given up.

Not a very smart scum move to give up in this scenario.

If there's a read that I

do

trust, it's that Tet is town.

Like at this point if you're town BM. You are the biggest obstacle for the rest of town to reach their wincon.

Town - Aloratom, Looker, BM, prob A50

Leaves the Poe at: Hiraki, 72, Ico

Ico doesn't leave my alive if I have him nailed on flipping the Allo wagon day 1 into 2 consecutive town wagons and then kill off Madoka who was pushing him the hardest. That's a lot of heat, seeing madoka targeted seemed like a setup kill on first impression.

I also trust my Looker read. BM is starting to lean into a "SI" read but I don't really know this game anymore.

Mostly town needs you to stop talking, almost completely.

This fuels it. What doesn't fuel it is the hammer and that's keeping me from going my own style of rogue again. I'm parking my vote here - I don't see a scenario where Looker flips town and I think people are bypassing him because they think lack of content isn't good enough for a scumread. It's not but having no content and skimming by without giving any valuable reads is. I think Madoka(?) was pushing into that at end of D2. My memory could be wrong though.

Vote: Looker

[Hiraki]

What of the above do I do exclusively with you that I don't do with other people?

[Hiraki]

72 was Hirakis top scumread but was unwilling to vote there at any point. Even when the 72 wagon was at it's height and getting a lynch there was a possibility.

?????????????????????????????????????????????????

[Hiraki]

Sorry - misread the above. Agreed.

[Hiraki]

Hiraki what do you think about 1277 with Aloratoms VC compilation for reference.

Specifically that non major wagon votes (or non votes).

What do you think of the orange wagon if both BM and Looker are your suspects at the moment?

Sorry - didn't mean to ignore this either. I don't like VCA until the end end but this isn't the worst time to do it.

from the first lynch: one of 72/Looker is probably scum. I don't expect all 3 scum on the first town wagon but I would be weirded out if it was just one scum.

I also see where you get one of me/72 is scum now too, I guess. At least a little harder.

[Hiraki]

So you admit it?

No? Question still stands, you can keep asking about my read on you but because I don't need your input to "fix" it, I don't need to answer to you. 99% sure I said that in this game somewhere, probably to you.

The irrelevance of you being "weirded out" aside, why would you choose a 50% chance of Looker being scum instead of 72 over a 100% chance of 72 being scum instead of Looker or yourself? The odds point to 72 scum, but you're actively protecting him the way you tried to protect Allomancer.

So let's break this one down -

1) Looker implies that the scumteam is me/72/Allomancer.
2) Looker implies that VCA, something that I said I don't like to use until the endgame, now has percent chances behind it and that it is infallible.
3) "The irrelevance of me being 'weirded out' " is the fundamental part of it and is why I'm not going after 72 because I think I'm wrong on that point. How do you just downright ignore that and try to act like I'm being

so obvious

when you're getting rid of the most important part?

[Hiraki]

Ico - my gut is telling me no, my mind is telling me yes. Convince my gut that I can vote 72 again and I'm back to being bullheaded.

[Hiraki]

"Great position to take the W" (win)
after 2 town died in 1 night, down 2 PRs, and we are at awkward 6v2.

This is not coming from a town mindset.

Read the entire quote ffs

[Hiraki]

I'm VT, I won't self-hammer

[Hiraki]

Tet and Ico - lead us to salvation tyvm

[Hiraki]

im still flipping town, dw guys

the fact that tet still doesn't consider 72 is annoying but it's w/e