Open 859 - C9++ - Postgame
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Lucian He/HimGoonHe/Him
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Lucian He/HimGoon
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Lucian He/HimGoon
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Lucian He/HimGoonHe/Him
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Lucian He/HimGoonHe/Him
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Lucian He/HimGoonHe/Him
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Lucian He/HimGoonHe/Him
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Lucian He/HimGoonHe/Him
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Lucian He/HimGoonHe/Him
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Just a heads up, you shouldn't be linking this.In post 91, froggodoggo wrote:(ongoing but a fun read)I, too, have a destiny.-
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Lucian He/HimGoonHe/Him
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Infinity is slightly Townie to me, I think 22 seems like a real thought. Everything else from their ISO seems pretty NAI to me.In post 95, froggodoggo wrote:Thoughts on Klick and Infinity?
I have no opinion on Klick. His position of "well you're the one being awkward!" is one that can come from Town but that also isn't difficult to fake. Nothing in his ISO is difficult to fake, and I'm kind of intrigued by Aisa calling any part of it "analysis".
Aisa, what of Klick's analysis did you like? I'm assuming the post wasn't framed as a joke since it doesn't give such a vibe.I, too, have a destiny.-
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Lucian He/HimGoonHe/Him
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Lucian He/HimGoonHe/Him
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Is this one gonna be more interesting than "you're being awkward"?
I, too, have a destiny.-
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Lucian He/HimGoonHe/Him
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Is this one gonna be more interesting than "you're being awkward"?
I, too, have a destiny.-
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Lucian He/HimGoonHe/Him
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So no, huh. Why do you dislike it?In post 109, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:
It depends what you find interesting, I guess. I dislike your throwing out of town reads based on weak sauce.In post 105, Lucian wrote: Is this one gonna be more interesting than "you're being awkward"?I, too, have a destiny.-
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Lucian He/HimGoonHe/Him
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Have you considered that I'm good at forming reads based on limited info, and that outing such reads, despite being weak, lead to a progression in gamestate?In post 115, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:Because the town reads were based on weak sauce.
Reeks of TMI, you know?I, too, have a destiny.-
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Lucian He/HimGoonHe/Him
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Where do you get the idea that I'm worried? I wanna see where he's coming from so I can form a read on him.In post 117, Klick wrote:Why so worried about a read that's not that interesting?
I, too, have a destiny.-
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Lucian He/HimGoonHe/Him
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Where do you get the idea that I'm worried? I wanna see where he's coming from so I can form a read on him.In post 117, Klick wrote:Why so worried about a read that's not that interesting?
I, too, have a destiny.-
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Lucian He/HimGoonHe/Him
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Lucian He/HimGoonHe/Him
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Okay, and? Should I never townread or scumread anyone unless I am 100% certain what their alignment is? Do you think that's the level of confidence I have in my Aisa read?In post 123, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:See what I mean? LAMIST.
I don't care how good you think you are, town reading a post like 11 is absurd. That post couldeasilycome from Scum.I, too, have a destiny.-
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Lucian He/HimGoonHe/Him
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I don't think it needs to be spelled out. Writing a "by the way, it's only page 1 and this read is not very strong due to the fact it's made by judging tone from one short post" would be absurd, OF COURSE that read is not strong. I bet if I did write that out, I'd have Klick over here saying "look guys, awkward scum! Writing out things that are plainly obvious!"In post 130, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:But when you say 'you can be town' then my take is that you town read them. To what level is unclear, but a town read nonetheless.
Do you think it's valid to say that Town is more likely to be relaxed in early game and joking around, while scum is more likely to be nervous, and thus less likely to make jokes?In post 131, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:A town read for what is a completely NAI post I should add.I, too, have a destiny.-
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Lucian He/HimGoonHe/Him
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I'm not saying that. I'm saying that in general, Town is more likely to be relaxed in early game than scum is. This especially goes for someone like Aisa, who (judging by the amount of posts their profile has) does not have a lot of experience.In post 139, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:I suppose it depends on if you enjoy playing scum or not? Or whether you feel nervous in general as scum? I have seen many a scum enter a game with a joke or memey post. Are you saying you haven't?
Is this a foolproof 100% read that is always going to be valid for everyone? No. Is it good enough for a page 1 townread to get the game going? Yeah.I, too, have a destiny.-
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Lucian He/HimGoonHe/Him
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Nah, I'm just pointing out the absurdity of the situation.In post 140, froggodoggo wrote:
This reads as genuine scum frustration. Frustrated because they took an action (not writing out obvious things) to look townier and it backfired.In post 137, Lucian wrote:I bet if I did write that out, I'd have Klick over here saying "look guys, awkward scum! Writing out things that are plainly obvious!"
VOTE: Lucian
Not sure where you get the idea I'm feeling frustrated either, this conversation is overall still pretty boring. Not to mention that my responses to it would be the same both as scum and as Town.I, too, have a destiny.-
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Lucian He/HimGoonHe/Him
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I'm equating it since early weak reads are how I drive a game forward in its early stages.In post 144, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:I don't know why you keep equating your town read of Aisa to progression of the game state. That's not what's happened.
You didn't answer my question; have you ever seen scum enter a game with a joke or meme post?
Again, scum can absolutely be relaxed in a game. Especially in the RVS stage where pretty much anything goes. It sounds like you know what things 'should' be town but you have gone about it in a really scummy way.
Yes. I have seen scum do that.
I'm not claiming scum can't be relaxed in a game. I'm claiming such behaviour is disproportionately more likely to be exhibited by Town, which is why I gave Aisa a Townread for it.I, too, have a destiny.-
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Lucian He/HimGoonHe/Him
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Probably at any point where you're not attacking me for a playstyle trait that I exhibit as both scum and Town.In post 147, froggodoggo wrote:
when do you usually differ in regards to your town play and your scum play?In post 143, Lucian wrote:Not to mention that my responses to it would be the same both as scum and as Town.I, too, have a destiny.-
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Lucian He/HimGoonHe/Him
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Interesting, why?In post 153, Gamma Emerald wrote:Gonna go out on a limb and call klick townI, too, have a destiny.-
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Lucian He/HimGoonHe/Him
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You see, this I disagree with.In post 155, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:therefore know that it should be NAI
I used the word "disproportionately" there specifically to say that Town does it even more than you'd get if you just controlled for the difference in the number of Town and scum in a game. I think that's where the fundamental disagreement here is. I am aware that scum can joke around in RVS. But I still think that, even when taking into account that more players are Town than scum, joking in RVS (if done organically, like Aisa did) increases the odds that the person who joked around is Town, because some scum have difficulties in faking casual tone.I, too, have a destiny.-
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Lucian He/HimGoonHe/Him
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This argument is less than productive, probably, because I don't think I'm gonna convince you of my view of how an average person plays Town and scum. To make it worse, not only do I think you're Town, I'm also getting more suspicious of Aisa, the more I think about her "Klick is doing analysis!" comment.I, too, have a destiny.-
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Lucian He/HimGoonHe/Him
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I'm voting a scumread.In post 159, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:lack of scum readsI, too, have a destiny.-
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Lucian He/HimGoonHe/Him
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Lucian He/HimGoonHe/Him
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In post 22, Infinity 324 wrote:
this is towny self-awareIn post 20, Lucian wrote:Bold claim. Klick can be Town, I don't think scum's first idea is to attack me for being too friendly when most of my 3 existing posts are criticizing someo
froggo, you missed these posts?In post 37, Infinity 324 wrote:
can you elaborate on this? maybe it's because we always used to try to squeeze as much info as possible out of rvs, but this actually seems quite genuine to me.In post 29, Klick wrote:Infinity 324 wrote:why is lucian awkward?
VOTE: hiraki
This doesn't feel natural to me at all.In post 17, Lucian wrote:Welp. I thought the banter in 12 was between friends or acquaintances, but if not, then it gives a weird pockety, overly-friendly vibe.
froggo is hitting a lot of "awkward scum in the early game" pings.
-jamesI, too, have a destiny.-
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Lucian He/HimGoonHe/Him
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Lucian He/HimGoonHe/Him
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Lucian He/HimGoonHe/Him
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The reason why I suspect CSF is that going from saying that Infinity "seems fine" to voting them was odd. Now, I'm not suspecting her for voting someone she said seems fine, I know building wagons for the sake of wagons is a thing. But if it's a Townie doing that, they usually seem more present for the wagon building, or at least show more interest in it afterwards? While CSF's thought process seemed to be more like "vote Infinity so it looks like I'm having progressions!"
It's a bit difficult to explain, let me know if I didn't get the point across. Like, I'd expect more interest from a Townie that voted someone for the sake of building a wagon on them to read them, and I'm not sensing that interest from CSF.
The reason why I think BBT is Town is because "scum isn't more likely to be relaxed! That is completely NAI!!" is a very stupid hill to choose to die on as scum. Scum usually has a bit more self-awareness, he reads like a stubborn Townie to me.In post 190, furtiveglance wrote:I think Lucian, Aisa, Infinity and froggo are all town.
CSF and now BBT are looking scum, I think BBT's push on Lucian is way too agressive, just looks out of place and kind of restless, agitating for someone to push.I, too, have a destiny.-
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Lucian He/HimGoonHe/Him
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Lucian He/HimGoonHe/Him
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Do you get anything from me calling Hiraki scum?In post 204, Gamma Emerald wrote:anything other than what you said specifically or something along those lines would've been interesting. Even just saying no read because no posts is more content than what you said.I, too, have a destiny.-
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Lucian He/HimGoonHe/Him
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Lucian He/HimGoonHe/Him
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Nothing. I read that Aisa post as non-serious, so I didn't think anything of BBT not commenting on it.In post 240, Cat Scratch Fever wrote:
what do you think about the fact that BBT honed in on you for saying people were town on page 1, but not Aisa, who also said people were town on page 1?In post 196, Lucian wrote:The reason why I think BBT is Town is because "scum isn't more likely to be relaxed! That is completely NAI!!" is a very stupid hill to choose to die on as scum. Scum usually has a bit more self-awareness, he reads like a stubborn Townie to me.
Not a fan of blindly sheeping IC votes. Unless the IC has some really above-average, it's probably not worth it giving up potential info from Day 1 wagons for the slight increase in odds of a scum D1 elimination.I, too, have a destiny.-
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Lucian He/HimGoonHe/Him
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In post 258, Lucian wrote:Unless the IC has some really above-average reads*I, too, have a destiny.-
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Lucian He/HimGoonHe/Him
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Is the existence of my wagon helping you get reads (on either me or others), and is there anyone you actually scumread now?In post 244, Klick wrote:
I like your thoughts on BBT in 196, and on Dunnstral in 231. Aside from those, I'm fairly null on you. I could easily see your posts so far coming from either scum or town.In post 198, Lucian wrote:Klick, could you give me your updated thoughts on my slot, please?I, too, have a destiny.-
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Lucian He/HimGoonHe/Him
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Lucian He/HimGoonHe/Him
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Lucian He/HimGoonHe/Him
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Lucian He/HimGoon
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Lucian He/HimGoonHe/Him
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Lucian He/HimGoonHe/Him
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Lucian He/HimGoonHe/Him
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Lucian He/HimGoonHe/Him
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Lucian He/HimGoonHe/Him
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Lucian He/HimGoonHe/Him
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Lucian He/HimGoonHe/Him
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Lucian He/HimGoonHe/Him
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Misrepresenting my post right after quoting it is a bold strategy.In post 363, Aisa wrote:
I think furtive's already addressed this and I concur - have seen scum fake tunnelling before.In post 196, Lucian wrote:
The reason why I think BBT is Town is because "scum isn't more likely to be relaxed! That is completely NAI!!" is a very stupid hill to choose to die on as scum. Scum usually has a bit more self-awareness, he reads like a stubborn Townie to me.In post 190, furtiveglance wrote:I think Lucian, Aisa, Infinity and froggo are all town.
CSF and now BBT are looking scum, I think BBT's push on Lucian is way too agressive, just looks out of place and kind of restless, agitating for someone to push.
(Before anyone asks, no, I don't think Aisa's lockscum for it. I can see her not having thought the post through fully if she's in a rush and just picking stuff from my ISO. But it is annoying.)I, too, have a destiny.-
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Lucian He/HimGoonHe/Him
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For one, scumreads are generally more difficult to fake for scum than townreads are. In most cases, scum finds it easier to say things that are correct (e.g. townreading Townies). Since most people in game are Town, townreads are much easier to produce as scum.In post 364, Aisa wrote:
What's scummy about that?In post 339, Lucian wrote:I would also support an Aisa wagon happening. I don't like the fact that she seem to have a lot of townreads but is seemingly avoiding having scumreads.
I'd also like BBT's take on that slot.
Also, outing scumreads creates conflict. It makes people analyse you and it can paint a target on your back. Which doesn't happen if you just townread everyone and don't offer scumreads, you avoid conflict that way. And I think a good number of newer scum tends to want to avoid conflict if there is no heat currently present on them.I, too, have a destiny.-
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Lucian He/HimGoonHe/Him
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And for the record, I have considered the baseline for Enchant's play. He's under it.
The game's been going no for 48 hours. What does "committing" mean at this point? Has anyone committed to anything?In post 363, Aisa wrote:I haven't decided yet whether it's just a playstyle difference or something more, you know? But also he feels a bit like he's jumping all around without committing to anything in a way that scum could plausibly fake.I, too, have a destiny.-
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Lucian He/HimGoonHe/Him
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Hmm. Aisa, do you have experience with Enchant? Do you have any knowledge of his play?In post 363, Aisa wrote:And also this - again it feels like this shows a lack of consideration for what the baseline of Enchant's play is.I, too, have a destiny.-
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Lucian He/HimGoonHe/Him
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I also see a logic to it, which is why I said it makes furtive look genuine.In post 388, Gamma Emerald wrote:
why is it bad? I see a logic to it. I want furtive to try to explain before I share it thoIn post 347, Lucian wrote:Extremely bad read, but the creativity of it feels genuine. So there's that I guess.
But I also think that Enchant saying "so would you follow my vote??", him being aware that his reads can be good or bad does NOT show a Town POV. It's trivial to fake. Scum is aware that reads can be good or bad, they probably think about Town's reads and think "good" or "bad" throughout the whole game.I, too, have a destiny.-
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Lucian He/HimGoonHe/Him
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Lucian He/HimGoonHe/Him
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I do have experience outside this account.In post 400, Gamma Emerald wrote:Are you an alt, Lucian?
Can us mortals know what's going on here?In post 406, Gamma Emerald wrote:In post 392, Dunnstral wrote:VOTE: Klick
I didn't like their arguing that Hiraki should decide the elimination and that we had info to work with because I think they know better than to push for that kind of thing on day 1. We would have little to work with if we did this. Further, I don't think that there is a lot of information to solve the game with right now and am surprised that they think otherwise, and that they are creating town/scum lists this early. Finally, I didn't like their wagon vote on CSF.Thisis sketchy though. You 100% know why I am with Klick on allowing Hiraki to dictate things.I, too, have a destiny.-
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Lucian He/HimGoonHe/Him
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Lucian He/HimGoonHe/Him
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Lucian He/HimGoonHe/Him
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You are also free to try to convince me why I'm wrong about Aisa.In post 434, furtiveglance wrote:I cc townreading Aisa
Infinity, do you still like your CSF vote?I, too, have a destiny.