Open 670: Near Vanilla (Over)

[hapahauli]

Hello world. I should be able to catch up today, and I wont be posting much more until I'm all done.

[hapahauli]

VOTE: Elena Fischer

I think this is the appropriate lynch for today.

Simply put, Elena's not playing the same game as the rest of us. She has 72 posts and is "active", but is remarkably disengaged with the thread given her post-count. The scum-hunting to posting ratio is bad.

1) She provides justification for her town-reads, but very paltry justification for her scum-reads by comparison. Town-cases are very easy to make as mafia, since you already know who is town. Inventing reasons to call someone mafia is much harder. Elena's play reads a lot like this.

Consider her scumreads. You'll see that these reads are either weak, unjustified, or made with no conviction.

- She scum-reads BBT most of the early game, but never really gives any rationale about the reason for the read.
- She scum-reads neb for a few early game posts where neb seems "stubborn". Almost immediately afterwards, she discredits herself by offering to policy lynch Riley and claiming she has no strong scumreads.
- She scum-reads Manga for OMGUS and that other people have expressed suspicion of Magna, but haven't voted him.. Despite trying to form a last-minute wagon on magna, she doesn't put any effort into lobbying for votes on Magna.

This is all pretty weak. No conviction behind any of her posts.

Now look at the townreads. You'll see that these are pushed with much more conviction. Rationale is much better developed than the scumreads (although still can be suspect).

- Her town-read on Toto for being headstrong. Early, confident, and probably correct. A nice safe opinion.
- Early town-read on Hiraki.. Thinks that Hiraki is town for being "clueless" and because his defense is too weak. Also likes Hiraki's tone. This is just a very odd read. She is way too confident given the evidence.
- Thinks Sesq is clueless town. She pretty much treats Sesq as town in her interaction with Sesq, repeatedly calling Sesq dumb, and never entertaining the idea that Sesq could be mafia pushing an agenda. Again, a confident read.
- Her entire interaction with BBT. She scum-reads him, until she points out BBT's "soft-claim", then proceeds to never give an opinion on him ever again. Not only is it a stretch to call BBT's post a soft-claim, but Elena just dropping the subject completely is very fake.

2) Her EoD 1 play is extremely passive and useless. I've mentioned before that she votes Magna at the last minute, but really makes no attempt to push him. Even stranger is how she completely ignores the Lowell wagon forming. She clearly doesn't town-read Lowell, and town is dangerously close to a no-lynch. Yet she ignores helping the town consolidate on a wagon, votes Magna with this sequence:

VOTE: Magna
The fact people have said they'd lynch this but haven't voted here is just outright strange so let's see if people put their money where there mouth is

VOTE: Magna
The fact people have said they'd lynch this but haven't voted here is just outright strange so let's see if people put their money where there mouth is

Who said they would lynch this?

Re read

...and fucks off.

3) Her attitude to Riley... she seems very unnecessarily and un-provokedly hostile.

I will policy lynch Riley at any point in the game without question btw

Can I change my role pm to lyncher on Riley ty mod

What out-of-game context that Elena has for this is irrelevant. Elena just hates on her play and seems to have no interest whatsoever in interacting with her, and has no interest in having Riley play/post/whatever in a more tolerable manner. There's no point to her opinion other than antagonizing Riley and being a dick. I'd understand if they had gotten into a huge fight this game (townies can be dicks to other players all the time). But it's the coldness and detachment that reads like over-critical mafia to me here as opposed to over-emotional townie.

[hapahauli]

I haven't seen so much wall posting (or quote walls) in a thread before it looks like there's a lot but maybe it's just me taking in the info wrong. don't really have any confident scumreads at the moment have a tr on Toto and Hiraki

@ Elena

Few things I need answers for.

1) You seem critical of the Lowell wagon, but did nothing to dissuade it. You were clearly in the thread when the last-minute wagon was going on. That leads me to believe that you just didn't care about Lowell getting lynched. All this pushing on Magna now is nice, but was sorely missing from your play EoD 1.
2) Your Hiraki read. It does not look credible that you can read Hiraki as strongly town as you do given what you posted. Like one of your points is that his defense is "too weak to be mafia", which is not great.
3) Your read progression on BBT is suspect. You basically ignored him after his "soft-claim" all of Day 1.

[hapahauli]

1)

VOTE: Magna
The fact people have said they'd lynch this but haven't voted here is just outright strange so let's see if people put their money where there mouth is

When you made this post, there were 5-6 votes on Lowell. This means you either weren't reading the thread at all when you plopped your vote down on Magna, or you're lying.

2) Ah sorry, that's my bad. I assumed this post:

Well that's a pretty weak defense if they're scum. I'll do a re read again soon with that in mind

...was taling about Hiraki, not Sesq. Ignore this.

3). I understand not pushing a lynch on him. But to ignore him entirely is suspect. You clearly read him as mafia, but put no effort into convincing other people.

[hapahauli]

@Hapa

– Have you read the game in full? If so why no comment on Sesq, Nebula and the Lowell wagon alignment wise? If not why not?

Want to hear what some of my Town reads (Toto, Sesq) have to say before moving forward with a vote.

--

VOTE: Magna
I have more chance of lynching this over BBT

It’s cute that you think this …

Yes, I'm caught up.

Elena is my top scumread by far. I'm not going to post things that distract the town from how bad she looks unless I feel the town needs to hear something.

What do you think of my case? Surely you don't need the opinions on Toto/Sesq to tell me what you think about Elena.

[hapahauli]

1) I didn't see him having votes at all I voted and then went back to work I came back and Lowell was lynched to my shock

I mean... how could you miss that? There were two full pages of votes on Lowell before you posted, plus a ton of suspicion on him leading up to that. Also, how could you be critical of the Lowell lynch when it seems like you're barely keeping up with the game at all? What was your read on Lowell EoD1?

3) If you think me ignoring him is suspect then I can't really change your outlook can I? A few times I forgot he was here but most of the time I was busy trying to convince others why some people are town.

You can atleast help me understand your thought process. But the second sentence there is the problem I have with your play. You put a disproportionate amount of more effort into justifying town-reads than pushing your scumreads.

[hapahauli]

Would looking at a scum game of mine help you hap? I think you'll clearly see the differences.

I'll take a look myself. If you could take the time to link your past few scum games (i'll definitely need more than 1), it would be helpful.

[hapahauli]

1) What's hard to understand. I had a thought I posted it shut off my phone went back to work came back and Lowell was lynched.

You start accusing Magna the afternoon of the 8th.
BBT starts the Lowell wagon on the morning of the 9th.
The Lowell wagon starts rapidly consolidating that afternoon (3-4 votes on him at this point).
The rest of the votes come in on the afternoon of the 10th (5-6 votes on him at this point).
THEN you come in and vote on the night of the 10th.
Lowell gets lynched.

That's almost a 2-day where you're pushing magna, but not paying attention to anything that's going on in the thread. I understand the explanation, but it's the large bloc of time here that makes it less believable.

Though, you can't exactly defend against me not accepting your explanation. I'll continue this after I read through your two other games.

2) Okay you have an issue what how I like to play so be it. I thought Magna was scum and so was Neb so I wanted to focus on getting that wagon lynched because it's a huge info boost but then I wanted to test and see just how much people would own up to their sr on Magna clearly not a lot.

But again, you're saying that you're "focusing" on getting certain wagons lynched, but there's very little effort in you actually doing so. Like your push on Neb I outlined in my case. You call Neb anti-town and scummy, then you talk about a riley policy lynch, and then you claim you have no strong scumreads. How is that focused?

Pedit: Well I have 2 completed games on this site showing you the rest would require me to out my alt.

Mmm well. I'll look at your two completed games. It's extremely difficult to make good conclusions on that sample size though.

[hapahauli]

Elena is my top scumread by far. I'm not going to post things that distract the town from how bad she looks unless I feel the town needs to hear something.

What do you think of my case? Surely you don't need the opinions on Toto/Sesq to tell me what you think about Elena.

Here’s my issue with the first part – there are more than 1 scum in this game. There also are a bunch of Town. Laser focus on a single slot to the exclusion of talking about anyone else in the game is not Pro-Town IMO. Especially from a slot that was not here all of Day 1. I need to be able to sort you and while an avalanche on one slot may be helpful depending on Elena’s alignment there is the possibility that refusing to give other reads is a scum strategy on your part.

I’ll review your case in full once I get input from my Town reads. I already had a soft scum read on Elena. Because today starting as it does after the way the day ended yesterday make me want to see if they are parsing what I am thinking.
...

Lazer focus on one slot helps me get who I want lynched, lynched. It's been an effective strategy in all my town-games over the last month on this site.

Hell, you have plenty of information to read me. It's not my fault or my "scum-strategy" that you're intentionally not reviewing my case because you want to wait on your town-reads.

[hapahauli]

@Hap: Some players prefer to town hunt and find scum by PoE. Might be the case here with Elena.

You all lynched Lowell? Really....lol

This.

Terrible case.

My attitude towards Riley was a clear joke I thought that was clear.

It was not.

PoE is fine and dandy. Putting almost no effort into pushing your scumreads is not. You need more town-reads than toto, Sesq, and Hiraki to PoE, ya know?

[hapahauli]

I looked at Elena's two games, but there's nothing convincing either way. 2 games does not make a sufficient sample size for a meta read.

What bothers me a lot about this nebula wagon, is that a bunch of people seem to either think or imply that Elena is scum, yet she's always choice #2.

If so, I'm not sure how you can see Elena's dodging as anything other than being scum motivated.

Not to so much that Sesq had valid points as Elena was fatigued. She's denying which perturbs me more. I'm a little distracted at the moment but I am definitely considering support more than I would've thought previously based on the subsequent replies that she's giving now.

1) I didn't see him having votes at all I voted and then went back to work I came back and Lowell was lynched to my shock

So you dropped a vote close to deadline without even checking the gamestate?

...

I’ll review your case in full once I get input from my Town reads. I already had a soft scum read on Elena. Because today starting as it does after the way the day ended yesterday make me want to see if they are parsing what I am thinking.
...

...

Yeah, like I said. One of {Elena, Hikari, Nebula} must be scum because of this.

...
Yeah, Elena seems pretty scummy here but my gut kinda pulls the opposing direction, and my gut has so far been right 2/2 times.

Convenient.

[hapahauli]

Correction - that's not all the nebula wagon. I was relying on the bad votecount that nebula quoted in #1351.

The general point still stands. People think Elena is suspicious, yet they're running off on other wagons. Why aren't we lynching her?

[hapahauli]

Ooops. I have been prodded.

[hapahauli]

And unless there are counter-claims, let's get this Elena wagon rolling.

[hapahauli]

Magna's breadcrumb checks out. There's very little reason for him to counter-claim here as mafia, since he sets himself up for a lynch tomorrow.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: nebula

[hapahauli]

VOTE: magna

I really have to rethink this game. Goodluck tonight.

[hapahauli]

@Toto and MB

If part of the reason you think Sesq is mafia is an association with Riley, shouldn't you guys be voting Riley?

I'll have some more complete thoughts later tonight. I have a couple of more things I need to read on D2.

[hapahauli]

Elena

and

Hiraki

come across as prob-town from the Magna flip.

Elena's EoD 1 push on Magna, followed by her continued push on him at the beginning of D2 seem very unnecessary from a mafia perspective. Her play doesn't make much sense as Magna's scumbuddy here.

Similarly, Magna pushed Hiraki pretty hard. While one could argue that Nebula was always Magna's priority (and hence Magna really didn't "intend" for Hiraki to die), the strength of the push, combined with Magna's extremely aggressive questioning and discrediting of Hiraki reads a lot more like a mislynch attempt.

Toto

has come across as town to me all game. He's active in the discussion, seems fearless with his opinions, and actively pushing his scumreads.

Definitely not lynching into any of these guys today.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think Hawk comes across as looking the worst upon my readthrough. The post where he decides on the Elena vs. Nebula debate is really scummy.

Well I want to believe Elena, I find it odd the BBT and Hapu both come into d2 and point towards Elena but didn't say anything d1 about it. BBT instructed/requested a hammer on Lowell which I can see being scum motivated but that makes me question whether MoL was derailing Sesq or not. Sesq meanwhile questioned the lynch end of d1 near the end despite having moved his vote much more than his counter wagon Nebula. This combined with Nebula holding hard on Sesq till it seemed like Lowell's wagon was gaining actual traction makes me feel uncomfortable about the Elena situation as its indicative that she was either distancing or actually well and truly not paying attention to the game state :/

So maybe that kinda makes sense why I feel like somewhere between the two of you there should be scum? I'm not ruling out T on both of you but if that's so it doesn't make sense for one you to push through on Lowell's lynch so calmly while multiple people SR you slightly ignored Elena for some reaching logic about Lowell not remembering Elena in his TR's. Like I don't mind that Lowell got lynched. I followed that logic because it seemed sound enough and his play besides that pinged me as coasting scum but like everything is lining up weirdly...

He spends the entire first part of this post talking about how the Elena situation makes him uncomfortable. I don't really "get" the analysis, however the validity isn't important. It's the general purpose and structure of the post that's scummy. If I'm reading this correctly:

1) He analyzes the situation in paragraph 1, seemingly talking about Sesq and Nebula's interactions with Lowell.
2) He concludes that there should be 1 scum between Sesq and Nebula.
3) He immediately discredits his analysis by saying he's not ruling out TvT.
4) He provides a post-hoc justification for having voted Lowell.

This post is just a mess, and I don't see the purpose of it. The two things that stick out as scummy are him discrediting the validity of his own analysis immediately after posting it, and justifying his vote on Lowell unprompted, as if he feels guilty about it somehow.

And in the following post, he's going to vote Nebula on the basis of this analysis, after not having ruled out a TvT situation.

Nothing in this post makes sense, and it reads very bullshitty.

VOTE: Hawk

[hapahauli]

And just for emphasis - that's not some random post I'm picking out from his filter. That post is the core reasoning of how he decided where to place his vote on the D2 lynch.

[hapahauli]

Hiraki, can you explain your Riley read? I haven't seen anything in your filter that suggests you think she's town. I'm at somewhat of a loss about how to read her, and anything would help.

[hapahauli]

I'll look into Riley with that in mind tomorrow morning.

Sesq is my best guess at mafia #2 right now. From the associations with MoI, a few things stick out:
1) MoI throws Sesq a ton of soft-ball questions and interacts with him a fair amount.
2) A lot of the time MoI spends "defending Sesq" is more actively discrediting suspicion on Sesq, rather than calling Sesq town and providing independent reasons for town-Sesq.

I also think a Hawk/Sesq team works very well, given the post I analyzed above. Hawks' whole "I think Sesq vs. Neb is SvT for ????????? reasons but voting Nebula" reads like Hawk knows that the wagon is SvT, but can't really provide good reasons for thinking that. The vote on Nebula is a pretty convenient choice given the situation.

[hapahauli]

In fairness to Sesq though, he can't really defend against an associative case, hence I'd rather be lynching Hawk first here.

[hapahauli]

@ Elena

What in particular about the MoI/Hawk interaction has to be SvT? I've read MoI's filter - while he pushes suspicion on Hawk, Hawk is never in danger of being lynched. Also, Hawk is very clearly a secondary suspect to Nebula/Hiraki. Scum bus all the time.

@ Toto

Hap whats your read on Mb?

I think some of MB's posting today is pretty townie. For example, him pointing out Sesq's contradiction about Riley...

It was posts like 306, 310, 884 that made me think they weren't partners when I originally read them and it was those rather than the later posts that I was thinking of when I wrote that. But there's other posts like 885 that could be either coaching or buddying so they could just have been distancing.


But while going through their ISO's to check that I spotted this:

Riley Cake - acts in a way that's kind of... well, an act. Probably someone's alt, I don't really care.

She's a friend on Discord, me and a few others told her about this place. I don't want to say anymore as I don't want game stuff ending up there at all.

In the first quote Sesq is trying to disassociate herself from Riley. In the second she admits knowing her. I don't see any reason for her to do the first unless they are both scum.

... probably doesn't make Sesq scum, but is requires a lot of very careful reading to pick out. Stuff like this makes me think he's actually looking through filters carefully rather than just forcing suspicion on a player.

MB is also hard to pair with a scumbuddy. MB/Riley is the only team that I can piece together with MB in it, and I really don't have evidence to call Riley scum. I think Sesq/Hawk is much more likely.

[hapahauli]

@ Hawk

Hey guys I'll catch up in a second. I'm town don't throw our ML away on me because you guys will be in a world of hurt tomorrow if you do that.

Hapa I understand my logic was very poor and my reasoning wasn't solid. Unfortunately as town I have a very bad habit of second guessing myself mid post and so my analysis comes off very lack luster. Just check here in http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=69733. I have similar problems d2 when I have a good feeling about scum bussing and then second guess myself and end up leading town down a mislynch. It doesn't help things compound later that led us to a f3 where me, one other town read player and a confirmed townie are stuck and we lose because of sloppy play on my part.

Honestly I'm not sure where scum are and need to revalue. I was fairly certain Nebula was scum d2 but I was trying to be open minded that maybe Sesq and Nebbie were both town because it wouldn't have been the first time I was fooled by TvT.

Can you walk me through the post of yours I analyzed (about the Neb/Sesq wagon being SvT). As straightforward as possible. I want to know what you were thinking specifically, because the post is just very jumbled, poorly edited, and hard for me to really grasp.

[hapahauli]

Sesq, I see you suggesting that people are suspicious, but you aren't really providing any conclusions.

Who's mafia?

[hapahauli]

Sesq, I see you suggesting that people are suspicious, but you aren't really providing any conclusions.

Who's mafia?

I don't like to put a definte finger down (RE: nebula) but right now I'm saying it's 2 out of Hawk, Riley and MB.

Not putting a definite finger down is one thing, but it seems like you're throwing suspicion around.

Like in one of your more recent posts, you call a post by Hiraki scummy:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 4#p8902444

But if you have actually read Magna's filter and have been digging for associations as you suggest, it should be pretty clear to you that Hiraki and Magna make very little sense as partners.

[hapahauli]

Sure.

Two reasons:

1) This post and its context just doesn't make a lot of sense from a mafia perspective.

VOTE: Magna
The fact people have said they'd lynch this but haven't voted here is just outright strange so let's see if people put their money where there mouth is

Elena is pretty inactive for the last 48-72 hours of the game, so much so that she completely misses the Lowell wagon. To be mafia, you have to believe that Elena turned down voting

Nebula

or

Lowell

, and instead call suspicion on a scumbuddy unprovoked at the end of Day 1.

Sesq is also a viable wagon at this time, but again no matter what sesq's alignment, Elena's actions don't make sense from a mafia perspective. If Sesq is mafia, we have to believe that Elena is diverting attention to Sesq by pushing Magna... which what? If Sesq is town, Elena is passing up a mislynch opportunity and further tunneling magna.

2) The Day 2 continued suspicion of Magna.

VOTE: Magna
I have more chance of lynching this over BBT

Again, we have to believe that instead of taking the easy Nebula mislynch opportunity, Elena goes after her scumbuddy instead. She does mention that she could lynch Nebula, but never really attempts to place her vote there. Her concern is pushing Magna/BBT instead, both of whom seemed town-read by most players. If you're mafia, that's a horrible plan if you're trying to survive. There's no survival instinct that I would expect from mafia here.

[hapahauli]

UNVOTE: Hawk
VOTE: Sesq

I read some of Hawk's town games, and I'm not at all convinced. I think that awkward post I pointed out can come from town-hawk.

Regardless, I keep coming back to Mafia Sesq no matter how I draw up the teams. Sesq has also been generally active today, but not really trying to solve the game. It feels like he's peddling suspicion more than actually trying to find mafia.

[hapahauli]

UNVOTE:

Yeah let's wait for Riley. I don't want her to come in and lolhammer just in case.

[hapahauli]

Regardless, I keep coming back to Mafia Sesq no matter how I draw up the teams.

Can you walk me through this thought process? It doesn't line up with mine.

You can ignore that. I just realized that Riley/MB make a lot of sense as a scum-team as well.

[hapahauli]

@hapahauli: I've had two town games and one scum game. Have you read those? Also, how could Hawk not be awkward scum here?

Also, isn't it funny how nobody has voted Riley yet? Hmmm. VOTE: Riley Cake

Inb4 I am accused of deflection; first of all that is not my intent, it is to hold others to standard if they are indeed unable / are avoiding actively scumhunting. Even if this is the case, I fail to see how deflection is a scummy tactic. I realize that I have used that as ammo against people in the past, and that was stupid. When you have such accusations thrown against yourself, you are much more inclined to deconstruct the concepts and question why they are things people are read upon. I believe the scummiest actions are those that seem to have a hidden agenda behind them, and I believe this should be the basis for scumhunting. If I'm just to construct a scale of people based on suspicion of outside agendas. Toto and hapahauli are the only entirely solid townreads for me while the rest are hard to place on the sliding scale of suspicion. However, we have a scum confirmed, that being Magna, and due to associative reads it makes Riley and MB look like possible candidates, with Hawk being a possibility as well.

I don't know why I rambled this out, but I have a lot to think about with little to react to.

My issue with you up until now was that you have been "present" throughout the day, but your contributions haven't matched up with your activity. For example, being suspicious of Hiraki earlier makes it seem like you weren't really reading Magna's filter, yet you portrayed yourself as looking through Magna's filter quite a bit for associative tells.

That Riley catch is interesting. I'll look into it further tomorrow morning. If you're town, please keep this effort up.

[hapahauli]

ELENA!!! TELL ME WHY HAWK AND MAGNA CAN'T BE SCUM TOGETHER!!!!

HAPA!!! TELL ME WHY SESQ IS SCUM!!!

If you were reading the thread, you'd know the answer to this. I posted why I'm suspicious of Sesq earlier on this page. Elena has been talking about re-evaluating her Hawk read.

I need to hear about what you think foremost.

[hapahauli]

When I said scum here I was referring to Magna and Riley, and it seems pretty obvious why, because if it looks like there's an associative tell there you're going to vote for it (me on riley)

I thought you were claiming multiple scum were buddying you toDay, that's why I asked.

Nope, just Riley to my knowledge.

Also riley, stop nebbing the game. (That's a word now meaning flooding the thread with illogical trash.)

Stop that. This attitude hasn't helped us so far.

I need to hear about what you think foremost.

Sesq is townsies!!!! At least to me!!!!! I disagree with the people who say shes scum!!!!!!

A gut read isn't super satisfying, especially when you're gut is thinking the opposite of a lot of the town.

However, I'm more interested in hearing about who you think is mafia.

[hapahauli]

Been a bit busy the last few days. I'll read over the last few pages and see what I think.

[hapahauli]

There's not much good into dragging this day out much longer. Let's get on with this game.

VOTE: Sesq

This is the game as I see it.

I don't think Riley is likely to flip mafia here.

Her play looks "bad", but doesn't make a lot of sense from a mafia perspective. For example, it's so easy for her to jump on Sesq and end the day. Yet she comes in and town-reads him, making herself look bad in the process. I don't see mafia taking such a wild, attention-seeking opinion that's directly against their own interests and makes themselves look bad.

It is plausible but unlikely that Sesq and Riley are a mafia team together. I'd expect a more coherent strategy. It doesn't make a lot of sense for Riley to be hard defending Sesq, and Sesq to be hard-attacking Riley if they're scumbuddies. It's not a natural strategy or interaction for two mafia buddies to have.

Nothing I've seen from Sesq has improved her slot in my eyes.

No no no!!! I said before that it's cos I can't find anyone I feel goodsies 'bout lynching, so I just use POE!!!!! I TOWNREAD EVERYONE ELSE SO I WANNA LYNCH HAWK!!!

I wanna know why everyone seems to not care about music box!!!! I'd rather lynch him over sesqy!!!!!

"There's noone I feel good about lynching except for hawk"

"id rather lynch mb over sesq"

VOTE: Riley Cake

ive done this already but it needs to be restated you cant even keep your own continuity within posts

you're worse than lowell (he got his reads weird from one post to the next ) and he got a flash wagon for it, where is everyone wagoning Riley? Maybe you've just learned not to do that, which I commend, but this is obvious scum at this point.

Hiraki pointed at this earlier, and I think this is pretty damning. Town lynched Lowell on the basis of these same "inconsistencies", yet Lowell flipped town. It doesn't make sense how town can use the same rationalization to lynch another player despite the history of this game. At the very least, the Lowell evidence shoudl give a townie pause, yet to Sesq, it is fuel on the "lynch-Riley" fire.

I think this is a sign that Sesq isn't interested in finding mafia, and just interested in pushing the Riley mislynch as far as it can go.

[hapahauli]

VOTE: No Lynch

MYLO.

[hapahauli]

Been quite busy the last week. Should be able to put in quite a bit of LYLO time to figure this out.

I have my leanings, but I want to hear from some people first.

@ Hawk

Hapa could you weigh in here please... I'm feeling like it's gonna be versus Riley at this point.

This portrays you as fairly unsure about where the game stands, and then you vote Riley. Why are you most confident that Riley is flipping mafia here, enough to vote right away?

@ MusicBox

I've been through the ISOs looking at the possible pairings. Magna was voting both Hawk and Hiraki Day 1, but the Hawk wagon was earlier in the Day so probably not so significant. Day 4 Hawk was voted by all the others, Hap being first to quit the wagon and move back to Sesq.

Most Likely: Hap/Riley

Next most likely: Hiraki/Riley, Hap/Hiraki

Less likely: Hap/Hawk

Unlikely: Hawk/Hiraki, Hawk/Riley

All this tells me is that Hawk is more likely to be town. I'm townreading both Hap and Hiraki but at least one of them must be scum by poe.

I don't get the analysis. Mafia can vote each other all the time. Why are you discounting pairings solely on votes? Is there anything about the votes themselves that lead you to draw these conclusions?

[hapahauli]

The unlikely combinations are uncontroversial.

Most Likely: Hap/Riley

Next most likely: Hiraki/Riley, Hap/Hiraki

Less likely: Hap/Hawk

These are the distinctions that I'd like explanations for.

[hapahauli]

VOTE: Riley

[hapahauli]

That's game. Sorry

[hapahauli]

We did it boyz.

Random thoughts on the game:

1) The activity overview will tell you everything you need to know about what happened. Town ate itself alive while scum comfortably lurked to victory. MusicBox and I were far and away the least active players alive. I don't consider myself fairly good at scum, but I was never given any opportunity to make mistakes, given how little pressure I had on me.

2) Well played Elena.

VOTE: Magna
The fact people have said they'd lynch this but haven't voted here is just outright strange so let's see if people put their money where there mouth is

This is an extremely good mentality to have, especially on Day 1 lynches, and I think town would have benefited from more players thinking like this.

Look for players that are trying to hide, and you'll probably find the mafia team.

The Nebula/Sesq argument was painful, annoying, and brash, but I think if people really stepped back and looked at the context and viciousness of the argument, it was a clear TvT.

3) Magna's counterclaim was brilliant. I was initially super pissed that he c/c'd Nebula when it seemed like he was in a decent position. However, it gave us a very safe path to winning the game: two free shots at sniping the JK and a treasure trove of "associative tells" to secure additional mislynches. We might have been able to win if he didn't c/c, but I think the road gets a lot more dangerous with limited opportunities to shoot the JK.