Open 680.1 C9++ | Endgame

[FireScreamer]

Deja vu all over again.

VOTE: Titus

Because if you are gonna let the fact that someone was town and the whole game getting re rolled stop a tunnel you didn't want it enough.

[FireScreamer]

If I were scum I'd be more likely to add the 4th vote. I love the early day wagon being on me or my teammates. People see pressure as some sort of purifying fire and getting an early wagon that is never seeing a lynch onto a scum partner is something I'd actively look for.

[FireScreamer]

More so on Umlaut than Brian I guess cause I know Umlaut wouldn't buckle to empty pressure and I don't know Brian

[FireScreamer]

I think you are overselling how threatening anyone finds page 4 wagons.

[FireScreamer]

I disagree that there's even slight pressure on anything but the most newest of players. As scum I'd actively be looking for oppertunities to 4th or 5th vote teammates assuming I trusted them.

[FireScreamer]

By all means use your vote but be realistic about what it is doing.

[FireScreamer]

If I were scum I'd be more likely to add the 4th vote. I love the early day wagon being on me or my teammates. People see pressure as some sort of purifying fire and getting an early wagon that is never seeing a lynch onto a scum partner is something I'd actively look for.

Why did you feel the need to justify yourself with self-meta?

Gotta get on my soapbox about something. Someone scum hypothetically scumreading incorrectly seems like a solid chance.

[FireScreamer]

Shannon why are you offering to recind a vote if it makes someone uncomfortable?

[FireScreamer]

Gottem

[FireScreamer]

I like Brian Skies entrance.

Gotta give the other new person a proper welcome too.

VOTE: Necta

What do you like about his entrance?

[FireScreamer]

And why are you townreading me?

[FireScreamer]

Liking FireScreamer as town for the questioning.
UNVOTE: FireScreamer

VOTE: shannon
If I scumread her every game eventually I'll be right and ruin her perfect record.

(Seriously though I'd like her to answer FS' question.)

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Umlaut

This day wad easier

[FireScreamer]

What makes it way easier?

I've done something actually AI in this game and then I've asked a couple of not exactly thrilling questions. Alchemist is townreading me for good reasons. Umlaut hopped on the love train for the questions?

[FireScreamer]

Alchemist read Brian as town for better questions than mine and correctly left out my questioning when describing why he townread me.

[FireScreamer]

I actually read the game this time.

VOTE: Alchemist21

Alright someone was nice enough to respond to my "Ask me to explain stuff" bait so ill do the same for you.

Whatcha seeing?

[FireScreamer]

I have a giant mafiacrush on Grey so maybe I'm trying to imitate.

[FireScreamer]

But yeah. I feel like I've done something this game that I actively wouldn't do as scum and asked a couple of middling questions. The fact that Umlaut ignored the bigger thing makes me think the read wasn't super thought out and I think town is less likely to not properly think about townreads before expressing them.

[FireScreamer]

VOTE: shannon

Is anyone allowed to ask why or are you wanting to engage Shannon herself?

[FireScreamer]

Why?

[FireScreamer]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Comm

This gamblers fallacy stuff is lol. Time to pressure Comm till he reveals it was all a ruse and he is actually 1 shot doc pretending to be scummy.

And come on guys what are the odds of him doing that twice in a row

[FireScreamer]

Dave can you provide links to early day 1 scum Titus being quiet and early day 1 town Titus being active?

[FireScreamer]

Eh. Usually I'd assume it's a town gambit but Commknight has already shown a willingness to make plays as scum. I don't think he should be gambiting and if that is what he is doing the quickest way to shut it down is votes.

[FireScreamer]

Even is this was OMGUS that's NAI. However I challenge anyone in the thead to seriously decide that I wouldn't scumread you for this if it was targeting anyone else.

[FireScreamer]

I warn you Comm. If you try and take me down here you will lose. If you are town you need to reconsider suiciding based on a provable logical fallacy. It would leave town with nothing to go on tomorrow.

[FireScreamer]

I've already made a statement in the thread I wouldn't have as scum. And I assure you it wasn't a threat. It was a certainty.

[FireScreamer]

If people come at me with questions in an attempt to sort me il work with them. If people come with accusations based in provably flawed logic I'm going to treat it as hostility.

[FireScreamer]

If this is town vs town and you tunnel me down scum will just hop on the side that is making sense. That isn't your side.

[FireScreamer]

Generally I bet that this is reaction test nonsense in which case I'd tell you that you don't have town credability doing this so knock it off.

[FireScreamer]

As a joke because he has started this game the same as last by trying to fite the player in the thread that has been most overtly townread.

[FireScreamer]

I don't endorse doing anything out of hand but solid misrepresentation.

Like I understand what you are saying but tone back the strength to which you are portraying it.

[FireScreamer]

I mean why make kids do book reports. Somebody has already written those books amirite

[FireScreamer]

I was just remarking on how Comms start was the same as before. If you want me to state what my position would be if it proceeded to a one shot claim you are going to have to ask directly.

[FireScreamer]

I think how I'm dealing with you has pretty strong parallels to how I was dealing with Titus last game. Which is why I'm trying to get you to back off if you are town and come at me from a less at antagonistic angle. If you are dead set on fighting then we will fIght and the results will be jarring for you.

[FireScreamer]

I've not played on other sites fwiw. Inactiveish over most of the weekend as I've got a social gathering happening. Can still read and talk but not at levels expected of me.

[FireScreamer]

Um was a ruling ever given on me because I don't think that came anywhere near trust telling.

[FireScreamer]

Also GC is town and you should be voting for someone else

[FireScreamer]

I'll tell you who when I'm less drunk

[FireScreamer]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Brian

On a drunk skim this will do fine.

[FireScreamer]

Oh come on
When will that be

Morning?

I said I was gonna be less active this weekend man.

[FireScreamer]

Could still get behind an Umlaut wagon as well.

[FireScreamer]

@FireScreamer

What's the thing you've said that you would never say as scum?

Im staying away from discussion on this I guess. I don't think I came near to actually breaking rules but I'm shook.

[FireScreamer]

Why are you bargaining votes with me? Vote for who is scum bb.

[FireScreamer]

Gamma scum hunt for us and we can heckle you. I can't sleep.

[FireScreamer]

Huh?

[FireScreamer]

Comm you are saying 2 plus 2 is 6 and reading people for telling you you are being just demonstratably inaccurate. Numbers are not like just your opinion man.

[FireScreamer]

"The capital of France is Berlin"

"No it is Paris"

"Wow you shook get him boyz"

[FireScreamer]

What specific part do you think I should address? Brevity is the soul of wit.

[FireScreamer]

Lynching based on false logic is as relevant as calling for a random lynch with no case at all. And no doing nothing is in fact better than doing things for flawed reasons. And softening you position to just not lynching them today shows that you don't even have conviction in your terrible thought process.

Why did I unvote you again?

[FireScreamer]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Comm

[FireScreamer]

Well last game Frank and Momo were inactive (Blue Skies, Momo's replacement) is pretty townie and Frank is a lot more active than he was. So I'd like to think they're both town at this point, but will reassess as time goes on. Right now I am certain something is up between FS/Umlaut though.

Why is Brian townie? Define the something between me and Umlaut and describe why you think it is the case.

[FireScreamer]

lynching based on false logic =/= townreading on false logice for d1.

Apples do not equal pears.

[FireScreamer]

lynching based on false logic =/= townreading on false logice for d1.

Apples do not equal pears.

You know while we are listing useless comparisons

[FireScreamer]

I'd rather reread the thread tomorrow before giving a considered full reads list.

Scum leans - You, Umlaut, Brian

Town leans Alchemist, GC, Dave

[FireScreamer]

lynching based on false logic =/= townreading on false logice for d1.

Apples do not equal pears.

TThat is my point,no ?

And mine was that both are equally irellevant to the argument. I don't care if X does not equal y if both X and y are bad

[FireScreamer]

Why do you scumread Brian?

His read on GC doesn't seem to make a lot of sense outside of him white knighting for me.

He seemed frustrated by my actions being able to get me successfully townread while never actually making arguments as to why anything I was doing was scummy. Just unfair.

[FireScreamer]

lynching based on false logic =/= townreading on false logice for d1.

Apples do not equal pears.

TThat is my point,no ?

And mine was that both are equally irellevant to the argument. I don't care if X does not equal y if both X and y are bad

Elaborate.

Even if I were to accept that lynching on false logic isn't the same as townreading due to false logic why does that matter? Both are anti town behaviours which should be spoken out against.

[FireScreamer]

Well last game Frank and Momo were inactive (Blue Skies, Momo's replacement) is pretty townie and Frank is a lot more active than he was. So I'd like to think they're both town at this point, but will reassess as time goes on. Right now I am certain something is up between FS/Umlaut though.

Why is Brian townie? Define the something between me and Umlaut and describe why you think it is the case.

[FireScreamer]

Muh hunch.

[FireScreamer]

Why do you post awful wall of texts but actual questioning gets that instead?

[FireScreamer]

Also in the off chance you are town have a freaking sense of perspective. You are just scum reading people who are scum reading you and not looking at alternatives

[FireScreamer]

I think it was genuine anger at an action he believed to be unfair to him. At no point does he scumread me but then starts to push GC for arguing the semantics of the rules with him which doesn't seem AI

[FireScreamer]

He is voting to remove opposition not to find scum. Consider my vote on him just as much as Comm

[FireScreamer]

I doubt that's the actual factual scum team Brian. I scumread them individually but not as a pair.

Also I didn't say you were defending me. Nor did I say you were trying to get me lynched.

[FireScreamer]

You've never had independent day 1 reads before? I should throw out a scum read on a player due to the actions of a player who I don't know for sure the alignment of because it's day freaking 1? People correctly argued against me suggesting that last game.

I'm implying that you are voting GC for associative of arguing what a trust tell is and coming down on my side of it despite none of that being AI.

[FireScreamer]

My Umlaut scumread predates my Comm scumread and was explicitly explained in the thread. I should update it tomorrow but for the purposes of this argument that will do. Town also leaves options open because they don't know who scum is.

Provide examples of GC jumping on easy things

[FireScreamer]

Why do you think Green Crayons is town?

I can understand why he is coming to every conclusion from a town perspective. I find myself agreeing with him on almost everything but sometimes he says it first and better than I could. I correctly read him like this last game.

[FireScreamer]

The only thing I really disagree on is the idea that you manufactured the trust tell complaint but I think that's a misunderstanding.

[FireScreamer]

I correctly read him like this last game.

Yes, because you could possibly already know this.



Any examples?

The roles pre reroll were made public. Stop eye rolling me about things you are ignorant on.

Examples include Comm stuff. Shannon stuff. You stuff. He is actively trying to sort people.

[FireScreamer]

I correctly read him like this last game.

Yes, because you could possibly already know this.



Any examples?

The roles pre reroll were made public. Stop eye rolling me about things you are ignorant on.

Examples include Comm stuff. Shannon stuff. You stuff. He is actively trying to sort people.

If you make a dumb or unfounded comment, you get the eye roll. Also, unless you're claiming mason with him, then you have no business stating this.

Comm stuff, Shannon stuff, me stuff. Not really sure what you're getting at. I guess I can see you thinking the last line, but has he done anything you don't think a scum him could have faked?

What was unfounded about what I said? I'm saying I correctly hard townread him from an early point last game based on similar tells and unless somethimy upsets the apple cart in a big way.

Someone sharing your thought patterns and not just your conclusions are a huge sign that they are town.

[FireScreamer]

I'm really trying to avoid having to do giant drunk which is probably just hungover 7 am quote pyramids but here I go

[FireScreamer]

Is this one of those things whereby acknowledging the vote itself disrupts the reaction test?

I've never been a mason so I don't know exactly how I'd claim, but I think 'Hey mason buddy' 'Don't out us yet, buddy' kind of stuff is not the way.

The question focused on why you switched from Suspect #1 to Suspect #2, when both suspects were doing the same suspicious thing. I don't think you answered that yet.

I'm certainly not lynching anyone today that was scum last game, because that is counter-intuitive. It is a gambler's bet. But it's a bet even you know is likely to be correct. Rolling something twice in a row is highly unlikely. Especially if we end up being in a 2 mafia vs 10 VT & 1 1-shot PR game.

I ignored this kind of bad, self-serving logic this last go around--to my detriment. It's literally a 4/12 chance both times, and while I get there's a youtube video about how the probability of rolling scum both times is somewhat less likely than rolling town after rolling scum the first go around, the fact that you're staking out the position on

page 8

that you are going to be a slave to that probability is. very. stupid.

Mafia is a game of personalities. Probabilities divorced from personalities is a scum tool.

UNVOTE: Umlaut
VOTE: Comm

I can either explain it to you and it will be awkward, or we can just accept that you didn't realise I was being sarcastic and move on.

I mean I can't really argue with you if you say it was meant to be sarcastic, but when multiple people are asking you a serious question when trying to get a read on you, sarcasm isn't the answer.

Ircher tried that shit too in the last game.

Was he scum?
Is it alignment indicative?

That's not even the point I'm trying to make. Before we even have a flip, result or anything, D1 I'd just rather lynch outside of the 3 people who were scum last game. Simply due to the likelihood being less. Whether you agree with my math or not isn't the point of the whole thing. I'm trying to score us a scum lynch D1 even if it comes down to a bit of luck and mixing that with how people act. I mean hell, I suggest go Day 1 without lynching in the pool that were scum last game and already you got people going crazy that they might have to look elsewhere for a single day.

The problem is that it is an artificial no-lynch wall you're putting around three players, and you just happen to be one of them.

Arguing probabilities is maybe something to add onto a town read, but making it a basis to draw a line in the sand is not good.

If you're insinuating something here you should spell it out instead of just eye-rolling.

Are you stating that you don't understand what the insinuation is, or that you don't know whether there is an insinuation?

-----

It's not punishable to just say 'I would never do this as scum.'

What FS is saying is that he cannot be scum here because he did something only a town him would do

These are literally saying the same thing. "never scum" = "only town".

-----

Back when I was going on about the probability numbers, you guys are soo worried I won't lynch into two other people (and myself included).

You should want to sort EVERYONE

Mhm. Mhm.

^^^ More seriously: no.

You managed to articulate the different thoughts I was was attempting to convey in my original post. None of them were lost on you. This was easy enough, as my thoughts were all pretty obvious reactions to the Alchemist/Umlaut posts where each player called the other player some version of obvtown.

@dave:

@GC : Your "yup" is not helpful. I view giving someone multiple vague messages and then saying they received it without saying what it was you think they received as potentially manipulative. Do you have an investigative purpose in doing this?

I wasn't "giving" a message to Alchemist and Umlaut. I was noting their posts that occasioned commentary. I am not required to spell out my exact suspicions of any given player when they occur, and providing non-specific suspicions of a player can make them nervous. Particularly if they are scum.


This isn't groundbreaking. Not sure why you're acting like I'm doing something you've never seen before.

Trying to do this on a phone is torture. Here are posts where GC said something I agreed with before I said it, tried to seemingly genuinely sort someone or just engaged in general good posting. Contextually work out which applied and ask me if you are confused cause individually marking them on my phone is not happening.

[FireScreamer]

Also, fyi, I'm grilling you right now because I do think there's a probable connection between you and GC. What with him soft defending you here, him getting all uppity about me giving you a warning shot on a possible trust tell, and you now chainsawing him.

Chainsawing day 1 in a setup that I don't know anything about is suicide. Not gonna say I'd never chainsaw day 1 cause let's not go down that rabbit role again but come on.

I tie myself to GC based on 3 early day 1 votes? If either of us flip and we are a scum team it's catastrophic. If a cop investigates either of us its catastrophic.

Taking strong stances is good. I can townread better than I can scumread.

Why would I all in chainsaw in this situation? After everything I said about early wagons earlier?

[FireScreamer]

I'd need strong incentive to chainsaw on day 1 without knowing the setup and who can compromise it. I don't see what that is here.

[FireScreamer]

Literally every game I get that. No I am not.

[FireScreamer]

Well at this point if FS flips red, I think we'd have quite a few associates to look at.

You've yet to provide any reasoning behind why that is likely.

[FireScreamer]

What earlier games?

[FireScreamer]

I am not Firebringer I just said I wasn't firebringer I'm not an alt please end this meme.

[FireScreamer]

Growlithe can't even learn growl what a shitter.

[FireScreamer]

Basing reads off of one game is absurd. It can be a piece of the puzzle but people make adjustments.

[FireScreamer]

Well at this point if FS flips red, I think we'd have quite a few associates to look at.

Fs might be scum, might be lynchbait.

Explain why I am lynchbaiting please?

Just read over since my last vote. Reads softening on Brian and Alchemist. Last few pages seem to be really nothing apart from the GC/Alchemist thing which I still mostly read as TvT.

Ask me questions guys. I've been away from the game and need to reevaluate. Getting some direction on where to start from someone on that would help.

[FireScreamer]

Last post*

[FireScreamer]

I still don't think there is a better candidate than Comm, who is antitown at the very least and has been seen to act like this as scum.

[FireScreamer]

Like after Comm claimed in the last game there was a definite tonal shift towards more reasoned play which made the claim of them acting scummy on purpose more believable. They seem to know what more townie behavior than this is. Why don't they do it?

Unless that shift was a placebo because I was suddenly looking for town after the claim. But I know I wasn't the only person to notice that.

[FireScreamer]

Yo Frank what's up

A good post.

Not sure if this is serious.
@FS: Can we talk a bit?

I'll be around on and off for a while. Yes we can.

[FireScreamer]

Go away. Why can't we just kill the rolefisher?

You've rolefished this game too.

[FireScreamer]

494 is light rolefishing. It's sometimes better than to state a wild assumption rather than ask a question. People will climb over themselves trying to refute you while giving away scraps here and there.

I mean if I thought it was deliberate i'd have brought it up before. Just saying if you are town then town indeed can do it too.

[FireScreamer]

Yo Frank what's up

A good post.

Not sure if this is serious.
@FS: Can we talk a bit?

I'll be around on and off for a while. Yes we can.

What do you think about Shannon and Titus right now?

Slight titus scumlean due to such a stark contrast in how little she is trying to solve the game from last time. Would vote for barely. Feel that they will have to engage sooner or later and I can get a more informed read them. Will attempt to make that happen by asking questions once they turn their attention to the game at all in the second half of the day.

Shannon is a slight scum lean as well but its all just early day 1 nonsense. This is a player that I feel I need more data on as well. I couldn't read her at all last game either apparently. Would vote if a good case was made. Also needs engaged more.

[FireScreamer]

Ugh, I hate games that devolve into camps...

Define the camps as you see them please.

[FireScreamer]

Yeah, I can see that.

But CommKnight is literally voting Green Crayons just to get his claim. Not because he thinks Green Crayons is scum.

@Brian, would you say replacing out was not a sign of getting a role someone did not like?

And I thought this was pretty rolefishy too.

Yeah fair enough. I'm not arguing for Comm here. I'm voting there too. I was just keeping you honest.

[FireScreamer]

Ugh, I hate games that devolve into camps...

Define the camps as you see them please.

I'll do that if we ever get close to lynching someone.

Play the gaaaaaaaaame Titus.

Are you gonna be this evasive on everything? If I spend time trying to think of questions for you is it going to go nowhere? Have you explained why you defined me as lynchbait yet?

[FireScreamer]

If you keep acting like this it's going to distract the town into building a policy wagon on you early week 2 and waste a bunch of daytime.

[FireScreamer]

FS do you have any questions for me?

You've been reactive and asking a lot of questions. I don't know where you stand on a lot of players though. Could you provide a rough reads list for me please?

[FireScreamer]

Expand on why Alchemist feels town and why Titus feels slightly town.

Pretend that a genie tells you that Dave is 100% town, how would you justify his townread on you?

[FireScreamer]

Can you wall me through your Umlaut and Alchemist reads please Dave?

[FireScreamer]

Walk me*

[FireScreamer]

UNVOTE: CommKnight
It's too early to lynch and I think we've gotten what we can out of this wagon.

Gotten what we can? Are you claim collecting?

[FireScreamer]

I'm happy enough to ease off and sort elsewhere to use our time efficency but what I intend to "get" out of a Comm wagon is a lynch.

[FireScreamer]

Comm explain to me why you actually suspect me. Other than treating someone who is tunneling me down as an antagonist.

[FireScreamer]

Because all I can see is the numbers nonsense and I "feel off". You are stuck on reads you had on page 7. You are not trying for a second to actually sort anyone. You've just decided your reads before anyone did anything and they are now set in stone. These are blatantly antitown behaviors.

[FireScreamer]

And the people inexplicably townreading Comm for posting a page 7 readlist and finding no new information in over 20 pages need to reevaluate their position.

[FireScreamer]

Look at it from my perspective Narna. CK has tunneled me since very early in the game based on absolutely nothing. They have spouted logical fallacy after logical fallacy and have been a giant distraction. They essentially did the same last game as scum. I'll spend the time to sort other people but there isn't any incentive for me to want to keep a VI player who is tunneling my slot based on nothing in the game.

[FireScreamer]

If you want to make the town comm case go ahead. But just calling people who disagree with you stupid isn't going to change minds.

[FireScreamer]

What was the scum motivation to how they acted last game? I'm happy enough to treat similar behavior as coming from a similar motivation.

[FireScreamer]

Fuck off. I learned nothing but yuou suck at this game when we hydra'd

Is this directed at you GE or do people think i'm lying about not being FB or what?

[FireScreamer]

What was the scum motivation to how they acted last game? I'm happy enough to treat similar behavior as coming from a similar motivation.

They were bogus. Who can't see that??

Apparently me. But go ahead and insult and swear at me more. I'm starting to come around.

[FireScreamer]

What was the scum motivation to how they acted last game? I'm happy enough to treat similar behavior as coming from a similar motivation.

They were bogus. Who can't see that??

Who were bogus?

2 of them were beinng wagonned. Everything they posted had a defensive twing to it.

Two of who?

[FireScreamer]

Can everyone drop this and vote with me please?

@Fire I'll vote Gamma with you, his play is dodgy a.f.

Yeah. K.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Gamma

Still happy enough to return to Comm at any point.

[FireScreamer]

His reads list is very safe. He inexplicably refused to speculate on why town Dave would be townreading him despite being in a situation where he has to have thought about that. Has been reactive and sort of around but refusing to step out of the nullspace to form a strong opinion on anything.

[FireScreamer]

Narna can we come back to this when you are sober?

[FireScreamer]

Cause actually understanding you as we go through this is right now is going to be like pulling teeth. But I do want to go through it.

[FireScreamer]

Shannon, talk with me about why you suspect me. You were still talking with me for like one post and then you left and haven't returned to my question. What exactly is your issue with my actions?
FS, I have some idea why Dave would townread me, but I don't want to let it out before he explains himself.

I already think I know why Dave would. I'm more interested in sorting you than him just now.

[FireScreamer]

I guess he appreciated my effort.

What effort? Like you've proactively done very little.

[FireScreamer]

That wasn't a very good answer. Dave's turn I guess.

[FireScreamer]

Hmm,

Shannon Umlaut GC

That's highly likely scums.

A read that you can't back up is useless and you KNOW this. Stop just pointing fingers and doing nothing. Also stop thinking you've nailed down an entire scumteam in day 1 it leads to awful confbiasing from everyone.

[FireScreamer]

A lack of proactive town play. People have asked me in both day 1s why I don't feel buddied by you GC. GE has demonstrated none of the reasons I can give for that.

[FireScreamer]

Titus can you explain those pls.

Vote histories.

I could swap out Umlaut for FS though.

In depth there please champ. Make your case. Don't just encourage people to go look at X thing with your opinion prebiasing them.

[FireScreamer]

I don't care if there is no good day 1 case. People contributing toward day 1 cases is how we form a better day 2 case. This is an iterative process and you are sabotaging it Titus.

[FireScreamer]

I very clearly cannot read you. Do more things. Give me a fighting chance. Sort and be sorted. Don't just turtle up.

[FireScreamer]

I very clearly cannot read you. Do more things. Give me a fighting chance. Sort and be sorted. Don't just turtle up.

I don't think you are reading me anyway.

What have you done for me to attempt reading?

I've been giving you the benefit of the doubt here because I think you'd be a real asset if you started working at this game and theres plenty of time left for you to do it. So yeah you are right I havn't been reading you but i've been waiting for you to give me something to read.

[FireScreamer]

Alchemist. Can you make a scum case on someone for me that isn't GC or based on GC associatives?

[FireScreamer]

S L I P B O Y Z

VOTE: Alchemist

[FireScreamer]

Does anyone have a meta read on if Radja is like this as town?

[FireScreamer]

Alight no slip boyz


VOTE: Gamma

[FireScreamer]

I can't reasonably defend myself if nobody will tell me why i'm scummy.

[FireScreamer]

My wagon is someone's RVS vote and the trainwreck that is Commknight.

If anyone is going to communicate this to me it is you Titus.

[FireScreamer]

Town

Green Crayons
Umlaut
Brian Skies
Titus
shannon

Unsure/Null

FireScreamer
Narna
davesaz
FrankJaeger

Scum

CommKnight
Gamma Emerald
Alchemist21

Can you talk to me about town Umlaut and town Titus please?

[FireScreamer]

Finding Umlaut more townie. Finding Alchemist less.

[FireScreamer]

Though the alchemist thing is mostly feel and he is probably still on the right side of null if I had to justify anything.

[FireScreamer]

GC,
Brian, Shannon
Alchemist, Dave
Frank, Rory, Umlaut,
Gamma, Titus, Narna
Comm

Very fluid still apart from the poles but theres generally where I am just now.

[FireScreamer]

I could see 515 and 849 as buddying attempts since they're appealing to your ego by calling you a strong player, but I think there's no real barrier to them being genuine. I loved the way you were playing the game too as of 515, and 849 is not exactly a surprising sentiment either: the players who were townreading CommKnight last game were mostly doing it on the basis that he was picking difficult fights with highly active, highly townread players.

336 is kind of confusingly phrased, because "I have a feeling he will eventually catch scum or get killed" is not really a reason to townread someone. I have an idea of what this actually meant but I'd rather hear Rory's explanation first.

I don't think 859 is really indicative of anything except Rory's stated reads on the two of you.

While I totally understanding stepping in to say that you didn't feel buddied by Rory you don't really have an excuse to be responding to all of these for him too.

[FireScreamer]

I've asked Titus MULTIPLE times now to explain the case against me. Of the people voting me only Commknight has went into any depth about why.

I cannot defend against that which I know not the form of. I don't know how you all expect me to try. If you find me scummy explain to me and others why. Until you do I can't actually interact with my own wagon.

In what sense have I been not proactive in this game? Less proactive than last game maybe. 600 post day 1s is not a sustainable rate, and I had a weekend VLA.

Lets take a look at proactive actions I have taken in this game.

1. Take a stand on both early RVS wagons as "No these are dumb".
2. Make my read on umlaut that he is TRing me for the wrong thing.
3. Very proactive GC is town stance.

Comm starts coming in to tunnel me based on mathematically wrong information. - This is a natural stage to become reactive. Offence makes people play defense.

3. I drunkenly make an attempt to sort Brian
4. Attempt to sort gamma by forcing him into a proactive role -433
5. Repeatedly try and engage Titus and get rebuffed.
6. Make the point that Comm is still on page 7 mentally and this isnt town logic
7. Leave the Comm wagon to start sorting Gamma
8. Try and spook alchemist to see if his mistype was a genuine slip
9. Publish a full reads list

I have stepped out of the nullspace on the following people to read them one way, the other or both througout this game.

GC, Brian, Shannon, Umlaut, Alchemist, Comm, Gamma. A little bit on a couple others but not enough to be worth arguing.

I'm being held to an impossible standard that I set for myself last game. Look at my other completed town games. Stop judging me against the exceptional and come up with a better scum case than lack of proactivity or desire to stay in the nullspace for me. Because they are demonstrably false.

[FireScreamer]

Can someone who isn't Commknight explain to me why they are voting me. Can they also explain to me why they think Commknight is voting for me.

[FireScreamer]

So you voted with what I think was a previously expressed scumlean based on information you didn't care to corroborate?

[FireScreamer]

If I were scum I'd be more likely to add the 4th vote. I love the early day wagon being on me or my teammates. People see pressure as some sort of purifying fire and getting an early wagon that is never seeing a lynch onto a scum partner is something I'd actively look for.

Liking FireScreamer as town for the questioning.
UNVOTE: FireScreamer

VOTE: shannon
If I scumread her every game eventually I'll be right and ruin her perfect record.

(Seriously though I'd like her to answer FS' question.)

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Umlaut

This day wad easier

The previous day 1 I posted twice as much as the second poster. I was a demon. I had nothing to do for weeks basically and was living on a friends couch. I put a LOT into that game.

Commknight is now saying that because I am not at that level I must be scum. My other town games don't have that level. That level wasn't sustainable. I'm STILL the top poster. Commknight has said that their own style can't be read between games but mine should.

[FireScreamer]

Accidental quotes from when I was gonna do quote trees but 926 is too long already

[FireScreamer]

I took his word. You can run down your actions last time right?

CommKnight - The comments about not lynching his former scumbuddies is really weird, but I'm more disturbed by the voting of a townread for a claim. Would vote, but I am not ready for a claim right now.
FireScreamer - Seems like town, do like the open discussion of scumplay as a sign of not caring about preserving scum strategies.

You took the word of a scumread to vote a townread.

[FireScreamer]

GC,
Brian, Shannon
Alchemist, Dave
Frank, Rory, Umlaut,
Gamma, Titus, Narna
Comm

Very fluid still apart from the poles but theres generally where I am just now.

Shannon read explanation?
Dave read explanation?
Narna and Gamma?

Dave has been dave so far by the admission of what his own town game is. I liked his early play more than anything in the last game.
My Gamma turn is pretty well reasoned out in the thread.
Narna is mostly feel and i'd rather have a discussion with them to properly sort them.

[FireScreamer]

I took his word. You can run down your actions last time right?

CommKnight - The comments about not lynching his former scumbuddies is really weird, but I'm more disturbed by the voting of a townread for a claim. Would vote, but I am not ready for a claim right now.
FireScreamer - Seems like town, do like the open discussion of scumplay as a sign of not caring about preserving scum strategies.

You took the word of a scumread to vote a townread.

Not a scumread anymore. Reads change man.

It's your job to keep us updated on those changes and reasons for them. Otherwise it just looks like you are being very oppertunistic. Which you probably are.


Why did the Comm read change? Were you also reading me as less town since that read list? If so, why?

[FireScreamer]

Which parts made more sense and why?

[FireScreamer]

I also don't understand how the CommKnight activity-change read on me is genuine when they have been entirely fine with Titus.

[FireScreamer]

Which parts made more sense and why?

His reads. He went from terrible math to more sensible content reads.

Which specific content reads?

[FireScreamer]

Shannon, give me a non gamma case built on something other than Gamma assosiatives please.

[FireScreamer]

VOTE: Rory

You know. I'm going to grill you for this naked vote after what people made up for excuses to vote me.

- Case on Rory?
- What made you change?
- How confident are you he's scum?
- Looking for another claim today? Rolefisher!
- Not sure if bad play, or just terrible scum!

Come on guys, Brian must be scum, he hasn't even expanded upon this vote since then. His slot was scum last game, herp derp, all aboard the Brian wagon.

Jokevote: Brian Skies

No seriously, town got their head out of their collective asses enough to see GC is a bad choice. I honestly don't want him to claim but at the point I voted him it seemed there would have to be one from him so I wanted to get it done and over with rather than waiting around for some turtle to make up their mind they're going to put him to L1 and make him claim with less than 24 hours left.

So VOTE: FireScreamer <- It's a mistake not to put this one in the noose today.

@shannon, nah, I was just curious, maybe I should've made it clear that was non-game specific question or even taken it to pm. But I was wondering how it worked for the mods since they'd be able to modify the different topics and what not.

@Narna, I claimed VT. Claiming early is NAI (I'm not sure when people think L2 is early, we use to always claim L2, because no point in dragging it out and it prevents someone from making an excuse to cast the hammering vote).

I like this post. It shows a lot of thought, less spewwy than his posting about probabilities.

Which parts of it show a lot of thought. Which parts of it do you like?

[FireScreamer]

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

Explain why in depth.

Why does nobody in this town want to actually justify anything they do.

[FireScreamer]

VOTE: Rory

You know. I'm going to grill you for this naked vote after what people made up for excuses to vote me.

- Case on Rory?
- What made you change?
- How confident are you he's scum?
- Looking for another claim today? Rolefisher!
- Not sure if bad play, or just terrible scum!

Come on guys, Brian must be scum, he hasn't even expanded upon this vote since then. His slot was scum last game, herp derp, all aboard the Brian wagon.

Jokevote: Brian Skies

No seriously, town got their head out of their collective asses enough to see GC is a bad choice. I honestly don't want him to claim but at the point I voted him it seemed there would have to be one from him so I wanted to get it done and over with rather than waiting around for some turtle to make up their mind they're going to put him to L1 and make him claim with less than 24 hours left.

So VOTE: FireScreamer <- It's a mistake not to put this one in the noose today.

@shannon, nah, I was just curious, maybe I should've made it clear that was non-game specific question or even taken it to pm. But I was wondering how it worked for the mods since they'd be able to modify the different topics and what not.

@Narna, I claimed VT. Claiming early is NAI (I'm not sure when people think L2 is early, we use to always claim L2, because no point in dragging it out and it prevents someone from making an excuse to cast the hammering vote).

I like this post. It shows a lot of thought, less spewwy than his posting about probabilities.

Which parts of it show a lot of thought. Which parts of it do you like?

I like the list, since it shows articulation. I feel the post shows clear pathways of logic.
Also, I've noted Brian has been wagon hopping a lot lately.

The Brian argument was an intentionally facetious argument. THATS why you liked this post? That and because it was properly formatted?

[FireScreamer]

You are willing to wash away pages of drivel because he formatted a post correctly? This turns a scumread into a townread that you are willing to trust implicitly when wagoning someone else?

[FireScreamer]

FS has not once landed in my TR's this game. Last game I even admitted if I was town he would've quickly fell in my TR's. This game he isn't and there's one good reason I can think why. I'll give you a hint. It's some red text in his role.

Does anyone actually think this argument is genuine? I'm scum because i'm not town and i'm not town because i'm scum?

[FireScreamer]

I wasn't disturbed by Titus' irresponsiveness, and I hadn't read past that post so I couldn't tell she didn't answer. I was disturbed by GC's phrasing.

So you saw like 300 posts had happened between Titus voting me and you asking GC the question, and it didn't occur to you to:
- read a few more pages to see if it had been resolved
- read a few more pages to see whether anyone else had asked what you were going to ask
- ISO any of the involved players to establish same?

Your iso suggests ... that might actually be the case. It shows you responding to posts in order, regardless of what might have happened in between. OK, I believe you.

VOTE: Alchemist

Can you look back on the Gamma progression on me and comm and come back on the wagon kthanks

[FireScreamer]

I have no incentive to overtly misrep what you say. Everyone is reading the same thread. Maybe this is a misunderstanding. Tell me again what you like about the post?

[FireScreamer]

I see "The way he laid out" as meaning the formatting of the post. You arn't really talking about the content at all. Why does that suggest town is doubling down? Define doubling down.

[FireScreamer]

Organization and the way he laid out = Formatting. That's all you have to turn a read on its head enough to vote another townread without doing basic corroboration or even fully understanding why?

[FireScreamer]

Why would town "double down" in a position where scum wouldn't?

[FireScreamer]

Why are scum more likely to crack than town and less likely to try and shape up?

[FireScreamer]

If I provide an example of Comm being taken to claim early on day 1, claiming and then appearing to play better would you reverse your read?

[FireScreamer]

Yes

[FireScreamer]

Just a shot? You are basing your whole read on that and i'm telling you I can at least prove its NAI and you are telling me theres a SHOT?

[FireScreamer]

Regardless I will be able to show you

1. Scum behaviour leading to a wagon leading to a claim
2. The claim post
3. A tonal shift after the claim post involving"Shaping up"

[FireScreamer]

Heck I can even make the scum behaviour in 1 being tunneling townread players with no reasoning.

[FireScreamer]

Define them as you see them.

[FireScreamer]

Its week 1 day 1. Every wagon stalls out.

[FireScreamer]

But please go through that and tell us what you think.

[FireScreamer]

Defensive how? Show examples. Isn't being defensive a natural reaction to being attacked?

[FireScreamer]

What I did wasn't a defense.

[FireScreamer]

Who are your scumreads Rory?

[FireScreamer]

YES

DEMOSTRATABLE PROOF IM NOT A FIREBRINGER ALT

This is what I always wanted. Thank you TB.

Anytime

[FireScreamer]

Alchemist21 is town because we always share same alignment btw.

So I was told when he thought I was you.

[FireScreamer]

I'm screaming, you gonna bring it?

[FireScreamer]

I am not Firebringer I just said I wasn't firebringer I'm not an alt please end this meme.

Growlithe can't even learn growl what a shitter.

Better you heard this from me FB

[FireScreamer]

Yes Sir!

[FireScreamer]

So FB. You aint one of them scummers are ya?

[FireScreamer]

He's scum, Umlaut get him

[FireScreamer]

So FB, do you read threads you replace into?

[FireScreamer]

Was just asking to know, no ulterior motive. Didn't even know thats something people did till Titus in the fake day 1.

Are you aware that this game is a reroll after a 90 page day 1 in the game before? It'll probably get cited quite often.

[FireScreamer]

Holy shit umlaut misrepresnting Franks joke as an actual soft or claim after he said he was going to do that before roles got distributed is super fucking scummy.

[FireScreamer]

Why are you rolefishing FB?

[FireScreamer]

For clarification that question was pointed at Umlaut. Sorry for ambiguity

[FireScreamer]

Alchemist might be scum.

Umlaut is not town.

Why not say umlaut is scum?

Also u sure on alchemist? Cause we got history of same alignments that's like 20 games straight

Does the magic spell still work for replacements?

[FireScreamer]

Firescreamer might not be town.
Time will tell.

Firescreamer, since you are me. What would I do in my position?

I'd probably read the thread but you wouldn't so I wouldn't.

Ask if theres been any claims I guess. Ask people to make the best cases they can to me. Try and sort people who are in the thread as I see them.

[FireScreamer]

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

pedit

I wanted to see if FB would back up the mason claim since by default he's probably not a mason.

Hey Titus, if you expand on your Umlaut case i'll probably join the wagon.

[FireScreamer]

The only serious claim so far is Commknight who prematurely claimed VT.

[FireScreamer]

To be more clear: the odds that (a) there's a masonry, and (b) it includes some specific player, are low enough that if FireBringer's answer was "yeah, I'm a mason" it would effectively be a scumclaim.

It wasn't likely to work but it was worth a shot.

Why arn't you suddenly asking everyone in the thread that they are masons then? It's just rolefishing and lying to someone about what their slot already claimed is even worse rolefishing.

[FireScreamer]

I'm not sure about Umlaut
I've been Town reading him since we resonated on the probability thing

Why is being able to count alignment indicative?

[FireScreamer]

I'm not super she she is town man.

[FireScreamer]

Though to be fair she has been setting up on me for most of the day so I'm gonna express that.

[FireScreamer]

I'm not sure about Umlaut
I've been Town reading him since we resonated on the probability thing

Why is being able to count alignment indicative?

I felt that the fact we were thinking similarly was a sign of him being town

It wasn't a particularly hard topic to come down on the right side of. Someone was making arguments made on a clear logical fallacy. Why is not supporting that alignment indicative?

[FireScreamer]

Why don't you ask Titus why she is voting me. I have. Havn't managed to get an answer.

[FireScreamer]

No it isn't that I don't understand why she is voting me. She hasn't given any justification at all.

[FireScreamer]

She's been setting up on me with vague statements but at no point has she told me anything ive done is alignment indicative.

[FireScreamer]

I felt Umlaut was trying to trick a player who hadn't read the thread into giving away more information than they should. Why is the post scummy?

[FireScreamer]

What are the scum disincentives that behaviour?

[FireScreamer]

to that*

[FireScreamer]

And yet is building a wagon to me without giving a chance to argue for my behaviour.

[FireScreamer]

What are the scum disincentives that behaviour?

to that*

Huh?

Why wouldn't scum rolefish?

Why would town rolefish?

[FireScreamer]

And yet is building a wagon to me without giving a chance to argue for my behaviour.

Find scum.

Gamma.

CommKnight

Take your pick.

[FireScreamer]

And yet is building a wagon to me without giving a chance to argue for my behaviour.

Find scum.

Also you are allowed to help you know.

[FireScreamer]

GC can you attempt to interpret Gamma's side of our 1vs1 on his Commread for me?

[FireScreamer]

Things are about to get twice as bright and half as long.

[FireScreamer]

And yet is building a wagon to me without giving a chance to argue for my behaviour.

Find scum.

Gamma.

CommKnight

Take your pick.

Neither.

Well thats what I have so far. Though theres plenty of day left.

[FireScreamer]

VOTE: Fire

ThinkBig just count the one that's on scum.
You know which one I am talking about.

You really want to make my life difficult, don't you?

It's about time you showed up. Goddamn this about to be both lit af and confusing af.

So the game will be like being on weed.

Gross. Weed is like the second least pleasant drug i've never used.

[FireScreamer]

And yet is building a wagon to me without giving a chance to argue for my behaviour.

Find scum.

Gamma.

CommKnight

Take your pick.

Neither.

Well thats what I have so far. Though theres plenty of day left.

So you're supposing there's only two scum? Ok.

No I am just saying I don't have scumreads anywhere at the level of those two yet.