Mini Normal 2130: Mafia From Home [Game Over]

[Battle Mage]

VOTE: Mage

Let’s do battle.

Yes, let's fight!

Vote: Blight

[Battle Mage]

Because of my absence, I'm a bit rusty, and I'm not sure I understand the logic of hardclaiming a Mason so early. Would someone mind explaining that to me?

Until I have a better understanding of that

VOTE: Saudade

Is that the third vote on a shitwagon?
VOTE: Riabi

Did someone say third vote on a shitwagon?

Vote: Riabi

Though seriously, I can't believe for a second that Riabi actually believed that was a genuine claim.

I just read some of a completed game featuring Saudade. He claimed scum, got lynched, was town. Nuff said.

However more interestingly, Norweg was scum in that game, and was very excited to bandwagon him. Different tone and vibe here, so initial read is town.

[Battle Mage]

Sausage makes this early mason claim in every game of his. Just pretend you're impressed and say he's a funny boi. That should make him feel validated.

Yes it was my impression that it was a joke too. But I think it would have been better to let the players involved talk their way out of it then deflate the situation yourself.

Don't you think it would have been better for Saudade to answer for himself?

Unless I'm mistaken, you didn't actually ask Saudade anything...

In fact, I don't really understand why you didn't, when you were very adamant that you wanted Profii to confirm there were no masons in the game, for some reason??

Unvote, Vote: Zantetsu

for being a bit overly aggressive and defensive for page 2.

[Battle Mage]

However more interestingly, Norweg was scum in that game, and was very excited to bandwagon him. Different tone and vibe here, so initial read is town.

So you think Norwegian is a bad enough player that he doesn't use his town tone when playing as scum?

I didn't infer he was a bad player - identifying differences in people's play (tells) as town or scum, is part of the game.

Though seriously, I can't believe for a second that Riabi actually believed that was a genuine claim.

Anotora apparently believed it though. What do you make of that?

Actually Anotora specifically said they didn't believe it. What convinces you otherwise?

[Battle Mage]

Unless I'm mistaken, you didn't actually ask Saudade anything...

Answer for himself with regards to essentially being called a liar by Profii for "claiming" Mason.

In fact, I don't really understand why you didn't, when you were very adamant that you wanted Profii to confirm there were no masons in the game, for some reason??

Because I didn't expect Saudade to need to be prompted to answer given that he was already essentially challenged by Profii.

Profii, on the other hand, needs to clarify why he is counterclaiming what was a pretty obvious fake RVS claim. Hence my question to him.

But I thought all of this was obvious already? Why wasn't this obvious already?

Unvote, Vote: Zantetsu for being a bit overly aggressive and defensive for page 2.

I'd be interested in hearing what others have to say about this vote.

I think you've read waaaaayyyy too much into people joking around on page 1. Did you really think Saudade's claim was legit? If so, I'll put you in the same category as Riabi.

Definitely welcome comments on my vote!

[Battle Mage]

Though seriously, I can't believe for a second that Riabi actually believed that was a genuine claim.

Anotora apparently believed it though. What do you make of that?

Actually Anotora specifically said they didn't believe it. What convinces you otherwise?

Sorry, I wasn't clear. Anotora believed that Saudade's claim was real, not a fake RVS claim. They (

Andora - why do you make me use that pronoun? It's so ridiculously inconvenient)

also believed that Profii's counterclaim was real. Otherwise there is no justification for Andora's vote on Saudade.

That appears to be correct. Although the difference with Riabi appears to be that Riabi thought Saudade may genuinely be a mason and voted for him anyway.

Indeed, based on post 48, Riabi apparently still thinks Saudade may actually be a mason, and is still voting for him.

[Battle Mage]

VOTE: battle mage

This feels the most like scum

I don't know about Riabi taking Saudade's claim seriously, If he is scum that would more likely than not means his scum game is a bit sloppy. I expect to constantly get bad posts from him other than an one-time thing. I feel better on battle mage cheeky entrance.

Yep there's some merit in that argument about Riabi, which is why I feel better on my Zantetsu vote.

[Battle Mage]

I don't know about Riabi taking Saudade's claim seriously, If he is scum that would more likely than not means his scum game is a bit sloppy. I expect to constantly get bad posts from him other than an one-time thing.

What exactly are you saying at the end here? That if he's scum he should be posting more bad posts than just the one?

If he's scum I expect everyone to come to a consensus scum read on him at some point in this game and focusing attention on him now will likely not do much.

There's a chance it was a one time mistake from scum!him though and he's gonna post better.

Either way I feel like Battle Mage in their entrance posts already throws shade at 2 players that were previously expressed doubt by other people and throws an easy town read. (It's a bit hypocrite for me to say easy town read since I gave you one as well but the context is very different)

It's the kind of thing that I see scum posting to seem like they are solving when in fact he's keeping the heat on two easily suspected players while giving a careless TR to say he already has a town read.

If you track it down, I'm sure you would find that most scum with presence likely opens the games giving someone a early easy town read because it's the easiest way to fake progression and scum often is more worried about showing progression rather than taking their time questioning/understanding stuff.

Hey, I can't help not always being the first poster after someone says something dubious! Don't follow the rationale on the town read - my early read was based on researching another game, so I'm not sure why you consider it an "easy" town read. In fact, you subsequently piggy-backed off it, so would suggest the easy-read was yours, as I'd already done the work.

I can't argue with the rest of the logic, as it's a judgement call - is someone more likely to be suspicious of suspicious players as town or scum?

[Battle Mage]

The fact no one commented on Battle Mage and he has chilled up out of nowhere despite being one of the most active players early make me think what that means.

Profii what do you mean by sensible vote for your vote on BM? I want to see your insight on it.

Chilled up out of nowhere? I didn't post for one evening!

Going to have a re-read tonight or in the morning and try and come up with something useful...

[Battle Mage]

If it wasn't clear I think everyone except Zantetsu/Norwe was scummy in the last page for me

Why so self-conscious Luca?

By my count, that's 9 people. Are you saying you think nine of us are scummy?

If not, I'll repeat Luca's question that you didn't really answer, would you mind pointing out a few posts you feel are most scummy?

Churros' defence of Riabi earlier for just being a bit eccentric looks weaker here - this is definitely a step beyond the whole voting for someone because they claimed mason, and then refusing to believe that they were not a mason, but still voting for them. I find it a little hard to believe Riabi-town, newly returning to the site, was not really engaged in thinking through the mason-claim, but went to the trouble of counting the people who posted on a page to work out who Churros suspects.

That's super weak.

And you're still keeping your vote on Saudade because he claimed mason, even thought it's been established that he does it almost every game as a joke and it usually isn't alignment indicative for him?

Yeah, that's not why. I'm not sure if you missed my post 92 or if you're choosing to ignore it.

What about your reaction to the wagon on Battle Mage? How you feel about that?

He's null for me right now, there's just not enough out there for me to make a read.

Not enough out there!?!?

I'll be back in the morning folks - try not to lynch me in the meantime!

[Battle Mage]

Profii notes

In short, I'm pretty convinced by Luca's decimation of Proffi. His early posts were very friendly and generous on the town-reads. Voted for me because my join date (2007) indicated I was new. No hint of any suspicion of anyone until the heat got turned up - every other post had been defensive and trying to avert suspicion. From post 150, appears he has basically given up, which seems really premature. If he is scum, certain he is being bussed hard, otherwise he'd have a bit more fight.

I took the bait in proffi's post 195 and read a game in which he was town (non-mason) - Mini Normal 2107.
Much more engaged in scumhunting from the outset, obviously thinking about behaviour of other players, no hesitation in throwing shade, and trying to join the dots between everybody. Conspicuous pro-town behaviour. Also interesting is a bit later in game, when he gets some heat (like here) - he eventually does become defensive like here, but it isn't immediate and instinctive, and he resists for a while because (as he explains) he doesn't want to distract from his own genuine scumhunting by just getting into a debate with people who suspect him.

Also I have to share this from Proffi in Mini Normal 2121:
"I dont like when people sit on day 1 and complain that they cant find anything scummy as it's usually scum being incapable of faking a read."

[Battle Mage]

Also did a quick re-read and some notes on

Anotora

and

Unabomba

:

Can we chill with the claims for now? Half the scum's kill list has perhaps been established now for no real reason or benefit.

As bad as that post is, (and as others have noted, it is BAD), nothing else about Anotora says anything other than town to me so far. And if Profii is scum, I'd be even happier with Anotora-town as I don't think she would want to be seen 'pocketing' her buddy so conspicuously on page 1.

Unabomba - Not the most engaged so far, but very apologetic about that. Made a good observation about Churros, and still voting there. Keen to emphasise how talented he is, and also Luca is "terrifyingly good". Key thing is, I don't understand why he's so disinterested in the fact Proffi is at L-2, when he claims to know proffi better than anybody, so surely has a view?

In post 99, you said you were particularly good at reading Profii, Saudade and Luca. (As 72offsuit asked you already) Can you please give your thoughts on each so far?

Particularly the first 2, as Profii has the biggest wagon, and I have no earthly idea with Saudade.

[Battle Mage]

For clarity, I'm happy with a Proffi lynch today, but no rush on that.

[Battle Mage]

Ok that's -1 I think, Proffi now would be a good time to claim!

[Battle Mage]

I'd guess Egix, Norway, Luca, in that order until you hit scum

Not Riabi? I thought you were pretty happy with the Norway and Luca votes?

I assume VT is vanilla town and not Vig/tracker right?

[Battle Mage]

Ok that's -1 I think, Proffi now would be a good time to claim!

Count again, I would have never voted to make him -1

That'd be too conspicuous right?

Speaking of conspicuous, haven't heard from Zantetsu in a while! Zantetsu - what do you think of Proffi and his bandwagon?

[Battle Mage]

Ok I'll put my money where my mouth is then, to get us to L-1!

Unvote, Vote: proffi

[Battle Mage]

For clarity, I'm happy with a Proffi lynch today, but no rush on that.

For now, all I'm willing to say is that profii shouldn't be the lynch D1. I'll get back to this D2, I think.

I think D2 might be a little too late - so sharing now would be grand!

[Battle Mage]

72offsuit is more likely to flip scum.
They need to bluff to get anything out of that hand anyway, so likely scum.

VOTE: 72offsuit

Someone you believe should not be lynched is at -1, and you're...random voting? Rather than saying why?

That said, I think if you were buddies with proffi in this spot you would bus him, so Proffi-scum = Unabomba-town

[Battle Mage]

If there’s a vig you’re the ideal target anyway given your claim.

I’m actually wondering if Profii/Una is s/s after all. Such weird interactions.

Weird interactions? That's some understatement!

These are my notes:

Proffi getting heat. Una silent.
Proffi getting bandwagoned. Una with weak half-hearted defence.
Under pressure, Una comes up with really bad defence of Proffi
Proffi comes up with weak theory Una is scum (note that Norweg rates this theory).
Proffi suggests if he is town, Vig should kill Una.
Una argues with Proffi about whether he could be bussed (implying he thinks Proffi is scum?)
Una explicitly states he does not want Proffi lynched today.
Una focuses on attacking Norweg, and arguing with Proffi.
Una says don't kill him or Proffi.
Proffi says kill him, instead of Una.

Wow.

If proffi is scum, would una-scum not just bus him? Una too keen to be seen defending Proffi for me to believe they could be scum together. Una defence of Proffi based on gut and the fact he believes he can read him later - argument to keep himself in the game. Doesn't really justify the strength of his convictions here.

Proffi took opportunity to turn things onto Una with little justification. Comfortable recommending Una was lynched. Then, after wagon had moved to Una, changed his mind, and said it would be better to lynch himself.

Interaction of Luca and Norweg interesting. Norweg claiming credit for "strongarming" the Proffi wagon alongside Luca, when I think Luca's argument was overwhelmingly the major factor in that (so when Proffi flips scum, Norweg shares the plaudits). Luca following Norweg off Proffi, onto Una. But Proffi-scum surely means Luca-town, as I can't see why he would go to effort of creating such a strong case against Proffi to then not go ahead with the bus.

Overall, I'm definitely more comfortable with my Proffi vote. Stronger individual case to be scum, more inconsistent than Una (although slightly more logical), lots of info on relationships to be gained, no risk of outting a power role.

I need to do a read of Norweg later, as a Norweg-Proffi pair is very possible.

[Battle Mage]

I’m actually wondering if Profii/Una is s/s after all.

Yeah... it may seem like it, but at the same time it feels almost too good to be true...

Una's stance would be a tremendous gamble if he was scum with Proffi. And surely if they were scum together they would be better co-ordinated than this?

Although that may be WIFOM or some other acronym I can't remember?

[Battle Mage]

If proffi is scum, would una-scum not just bus him?

YES. YES I WOULD HAVE.

If Profii and I were to be scumbuddies here, I would've bussed in a heartbeat. Zero hesitation,

especially since they haven't made any big moves to save themself.

If they are scum, it's a shame my gutread is off.
If they are town, I think they can do a lot more once the game gets rolling.
Same applies to me - I've had something like zero good D1's as town.

Excellent, I'm a genius!

I mean, they did make a move to save themselves, which is to divert attention onto you. I can't understand why you would be defending Proffi with such certainty (noting that you arent 100% certain he is town, which is important) - surely you have more confidence in your own win condition than Proffi's, so why are you allowing him to get you lynched? And given the example of him manipulating you as scum in your recent game, I don't know why you would be confident "they can do a lot more once the game gets rolling" - shouldn't you be worried he might be pulling the wool over your eyes again? And I guess the implication of my vote is that I believe you must be mis-guided town...maybe I'm not a genius...

An explanation, and probably a re-think, would be really helpful to lynching scum today - recognising there are other players flying under the radar too.

[Battle Mage]

If you had a strong gutread of someone being town, but didn't know how to articulate it well enough to everyone else..That's where I'm at right now.

Give me my pound of meat today, and lynch anywhere other than profii or me. If need be, I can be your sheep for the rest of the game, but I don't think it'll even come to that.
And I'll make sure I'm dead well before LyLo too, so there's absolutely no risk with me here.

And if you can't compromise with profii today, then go for it, and I'll try to do my best explaining afterwards.

Bargaining with the town like this is an awfully bad look. If you have a town read on someone then back it up with evidence and move the game forward instead of trying to get by on gut.

UNVOTE: profii

I think profii has good points about the composition of his wagon, enough so that

I can't live with participating in his lynch right now

. There are definitely more people I want to hear from first. Chief among them is Zantetsu, who has lurked and dodged Battle Mage's question asking for his opinion on the profii wagon. I think keeping profii at L-1 right now is asking for a lolhammer from Zantetsu or someone in a similar position.

I think Proffi was at like L-3 before your post - no immediate prospect of him being lynched. Not sure if you knew that, but presume you did know that momentum had shifted to Una, and this post was setting you up to follow suit.

I agree with most of what you said otherwise, but

FoS

nonetheless.

[Battle Mage]

I think Proffi was at like L-3 before your post - no immediate prospect of him being lynched. Not sure if you knew that, but presume you did know that momentum had shifted to Una, and this post was setting you up to follow suit.

I agree with most of what you said otherwise, but

FoS

nonetheless.

I see why you read my post in that light, but Una actually isn't even in my top 3 lynch picks. Suppose we were in time trouble right now; I'd finger Zantetsu and profii as most likely scumteam and put my vote there. Even going back to the Saudade policy lynch case would be better IMO.

I hope we're not seriously considering a Saudade policy lynch today.

[Battle Mage]

I could be wrong of course but I'd like to let it ride for a little while and focus elsewhere for now.

And where exactly do you want to focus?

Do you think I'm scum?

1: You answered my question with another question.
2: That question doesn't answer my own question.

OK well the answer is, I am not entirely sure. There are 10 other players in the game I could focus on besides profii and Una and

I expect to change my focus frequently going forward

. Furthermore,

if I have suspicions of players it is hardly to my benefit to pre-state them as you are requesting I do

and if you think I am town I don't even see why you would want me to do that. At this point I have a town read on you but I think you have a scum read on me.

Zantetsu - Why so evasive about who you suspect? And why so paranoid about Norweg thinking you're scum?

I'll pick a couple of choice quotes:

"I expect to change my focus frequently going forward" - If Zantetsu is inconsistent, it's not scummy, it's strategy.
"if I have suspicions of players it is hardly to my benefit to pre-state them as you are requesting I do" - You've played mafia before right? That's basically part of the game. It's page 12 or something, and you did express suspicions of people earlier, so what's with the sudden evasiveness? Surely not too much effort to come up with something!

Norweg - why take such a lenient line on this? You've been far sharper calling out scummy behaviour earlier in the game. What's your rationale for thinking Zantetsu is town?

[Battle Mage]

- Battle Mage falsely claimed L-1 and asked for a claim from profii

Nah, I miscounted. The previous votecount was L-3, and there were 2 further votes after that - I didn't check closely enough to see that 1 of them was already on the wagon. If I'd realised it was L-2, I may have voted and asked for a claim anyway though, as I was pretty happy at that stage!

My read of profii is "too scummy to be scum" at this point. His flailing in posts 134 - 201 were very scummy but his subsequent posts have been a lot better. The good news is that wagon progression I think gives us a lot of data going forward.

At this point I'm not on board with a lynch of profii or UnaBombaH today specifically because of their 'weird associations' as Luca put it.

"too scummy to be scum" is actually how I feel about you!

Agree on the lots of data front - I think lynching Proffi-scum would give us a lot of clarity.

Here are the players I am leaning scum on:

Anotora
Battle Mage
Churros

Super, any reasons for those? Churros has been very quiet for a while!

[Battle Mage]

Do you think I'm scum?

1: You answered my question with another question.
2: That question doesn't answer my own question.

OK well the answer is, I am not entirely sure. There are 10 other players in the game I could focus on besides profii and Una and I expect to change my focus frequently going forward. Furthermore, if I have suspicions of players it is hardly to my benefit to pre-state them as you are requesting I do and if you think I am town I don't even see why you would want me to do that. At this point I have a town read on you but I think you have a scum read on me.

I had you as leaning town until this post. Isn't the entire point of the game to discuss who we have suspicions of and why? If you were to place all the players in this game on a spectrum from for-sure-scum to for-sure-town, can you tell us who would be closest to for-sure-scum, even if they aren't very close?

That's right Riabi!

Anyway, it bothers me how Profii brought up Una as an alternative to his wagon, then suddenly he just goes flat when the idea gains traction and says voting him is better.
Profii what is even going in in that head of yours?

It may bother you that the Una wagon didn't gain more steam after you hopped over, but I'm not sure that's Proffi's fault? Co-ordination issues here perhaps.

[Battle Mage]

Norweg - why take such a lenient line on this? You've been far sharper calling out scummy behaviour earlier in the game. What's your rationale for thinking Zantetsu is town?

Because i don't like calling everyone in the game scum when i already got a decent idea of where i want to be heading. And i think Una is scum so i want to keep pushing there.

I think hesitating to call out scummy behaviour is scummy in itself - if you took exception to Zantetsu's posts, as I did, you could have said that, without necessarily changing where you are heading. The fact you didn't, could indicate you are scumbuddies. Or maybe it's just that you are scum, and don't want to alienate too many people. Different approach to me - I'm throwing shade like a palm tree!

Please accept my official

FoS

Oh, and Battle Mage. If Zantetsu is scum as you seem to be starting to believe. What's your take on him saying he doesn't want to lynch in the Una/Profii group?

Starting to believe? I was definitely the first on the Zantetsu bandwagon!

My observations are he hasn't really commented on Una at all, and his defence of Proffi is that he is too scummy to be scum. Despite a lot of posts, he hasn't given any reason not to vote for them, or any other convincing targets to vote for instead.

How do you feel about me thinking you might be scum with Proffi and/or Zantetsu?

[Battle Mage]

Maybe Churros was right. Battle Mage is pretty scummy.

Yeah right! OMGUS

[Battle Mage]

Oh and i found a potential connection between scum!Una and scum!Battle Mage. They both use those annoying laughing smileys at the end of almost every sentence of theirs.

Ah you got us - we've been breadcrumbing that we're scumbuddies!

Of course, you could have gone with the potential connection that I've gone out on a limb and said he might be town (which is a perfectly acceptable thing for you to criticise me for).

It may bother you that the Una wagon didn't gain more steam after you hopped over, but I'm not sure that's Proffi's fault? Co-ordination issues here perhaps.

...What?
I never claimed it was Profii's fault.
And what are you insinuating with your "co-ordination issues" remark?

You unhelpfully took out the quote I was referring to, where you basically said it bothered you that Proffi had made a case against Una (which you took and ran with, and we'll go back to that later), and then changed his mind and said he didn't want to lynch Una. I interpretted it as above - maybe rightly, maybe wrongly. If it wasn't obvious, the whole comment, including the "co-ordination issues" remark was insinuating you are scum with Proffi.

[Battle Mage]

Here is a very rough list of who I'd prefer to lynch today (bottom is best option, top is worst option). Tricky because a lot of reads are dependent on others, and I definitely need a re-read tomorrow.

Order of lynch priority today

Luca Blight
Saudade
Looker
72offsuit
Egix96
Anotora
Riabi
Churros
NorwegianboyEE
UnaBombaH
Zantetsu
profii

[Battle Mage]

Anyway, no matter how much noise BM ends up posting after this. The important fact to consider is that Una is scummy due to reasons I've mentioned and i believe we should lynch there. If i'm to put my vote somewhere else it better be an convincing argument.

Wow, touchy!

There's lots of important facts to consider...If I was a betting man, I'd wager that you will jump on pretty much any other bandwagon as soon as it pops up.

Battle Mage, let me be blunt. Your case on me is boring and i can't be bothered to respond to it anymore than i've already have. Bye now.

I haven't made a case on you yet. Like I said earlier, need a re-read. But lots of recent stuff raising red-flags for me, and I'm sure if you disagreed you would say so. However, obviously would prefer to see Proffi lynch today as some of my suspicion on you is predicated on him being scum.

[Battle Mage]

I think it's pretty unlikely there wouldn't be at least 1 scum in your townleans Zantetsu. Which leads to my next point, you give townreads away too easily. That still doesn't mean i believe you are likely to be mafia yourself. I just don't agree with you.

Just looking at the profii wagon.

I think you and Luca are town because all your reasoning was good on the way to getting profii to L-2. He was acting super scummy once the wagon was on him, he was putting out every contradictory reason possible to save himself, but then when he started making better posts, you guys backed down in a way that seems very "appropriately cautious". profii didn't claim a power role which would have been the logical thing for scum!profii to do if he really thought his lynch was imminent. He didn't even double check his vote count and notice that he wasn't really at L-1. All of this adds up to a town lean on all three players for me.

egix hasn't posted a lot but I have liked his through process in the posts he has made. He got on the profii wagon at a time that I thought it made sense. And all of his subsequent posts I just liked. But the amount of content there is not enough for me to feel as confident as I do about the others in my town list.

UnaBombaH I have a theory about. Maybe my theory is wrong. But he has said things. I can point them out but really they are there for anyone re-reading his ISO to see.

Anotora I am weakly scum reading most because it is so hard for me to believe that They really believed Saudade's mason claim, then believed profii's fake counter-claim. That seems disingenuous. Also the fact that They so transparently followed Luca and Norwegian onto and off of the profii wagon. And finally, the casting shade so heavily at me - claiming I was rolefishing, but then not even caring that Battle Mage fished a claim out of profii when profii was not even L-1. But Anotora also has a very low post count and low content production so this is admittedly a pretty weak read.

Battle Mage it just feels inconsistent to me that he'd put as much effort into reading and forming theories and then not even vote count well enough to see that profii really was at L-2. Also I can't shake the feeling that Battle Mage is playing scum like I played it the first few times - just really try-hard and casting shade everywhere. And all those smileys ...

And Churros I didn't like how he immediately town read Norwegian for almost no reason. But this is just gut feel and he hasn't posted hardly anything so super weak read here.

There's some good stuff here.

Firstly, on the Battle Mage stuff, I think your vote-count mistake observation is fair (although as I've said, was a genuine mistake, and didn't have any consequence, as I could obviously have put proffi at -1 myself to get a claim, if I thought he was at -2). Insinuating I'm a novice is a bit unfair - technically I'm very experienced, but yes, I do suck at mafia. But hey, I try my best, and I have fun playing...

Curious you are very high on Luca and Norweg for getting Proffi to L-2, although I was part of that too (albeit slightly later) and I'm one of your top suspects. Would you like to re-think this?
I think you make a good point about scum potentially being more likely to claim a power role. Although given how all over the place Proffi has been, I'm putting that down to an oversight.

I agree on Churros, and particularly noteworthy given the possibility of Norweg-scum. Is it too soon to get prod on him?

Are you able to share your thoughts on Una? Might be particularly helpful to me trying to lynch Proffi, and for Norweg who is desperate to get off that wagon.

[Battle Mage]

Thanks Zantetsu, that makes me feel much better about your reads list. Now i know what your thought process is.

Buddy buddy much?

Yeah post 334 is town as fuck.
That makes Zantetsu ++town and Battle Mage ++scum.

"town as fuck" is a bit of a stretch. I think it's quite obvious you're only calling me scum because I pointed out some of your scummy behaviour. From a logical standpoint, it's not even obvious to me that Zantetsu town means I am scum, or that anything in his post 334 would convince you I'm scum. Transparent.

I might even get close to posting a reads list soon. Damn, what a time to be alive.

Well I'm glad you are feeling happier. I think the overly upset and defensive reaction to a bit of suspicion from me, and the equally emotive reaction to Zantetsu saying he is town, is another small reason to believe Norweg is scum.

Also the relationship between Zantetsu and Norweg strengthens the case for lynching one of them, rather than Proffi/Una.

[Battle Mage]

Anyway, no matter how much noise BM ends up posting after this. The important fact to consider is that Una is scummy due to reasons I've mentioned and i believe we should lynch there. If i'm to put my vote somewhere else it better be an convincing argument.

If I was a betting man, I'd wager that you will jump on pretty much any other bandwagon as soon as it pops up.

I have absolutely no idea why there's so much resistance to this wagon, but if that is how it's going to be then i suppose i can go with one of my scumleans instead.
VOTE: Anotora

Less than 1 day.

Which is part of the reason your posts annoy me together with Battle Mage. Because they are so reachy. Using moon logic to confirm your reads proves one of two things. Either you two are just bad, or you’re scum.

And i sincerely hope for all our sakes it is the latter.

Wow ok, yes I do suck at mafia, but the last sentence is a bit melodramatic! Can people start giving me a break though? Rather than just saying someone is a bad player, it's more productive to actually engage what they say. If you're not scum, prove it by reasoning, rather than just getting angry someone pointed the finger at you.

I highly doubt this will do anything at all to make Battle Mage scumread me less. But i often let my emotions take over sometimes, and now that i've calmed down i've considered that Battle Mage's push on me could come from town. Una is still scummy though and i believe he should be the lynch today.

You're right, the fact you've now decided I'm town does not change my read of you.

But if my dogged scumhunting caused you to get overly emotional, then I apologise. Although in the nicest possible way, I'd be keen to know if those who have played with Norweg before have seen him react this way under scrutiny as scum, town or both?

I feel like there's a lot of good avenues to explore in this game, but because Proffi is so obviously scum, my motivation to do further research myself is pretty limited...

[Battle Mage]

Just catching up:

Read into anotora boys, scum has already been caught

Are you saying you think Anotora is scum? Or are you saying you think he's found scum and is pointing it out in his posts?

Riabi is something else...

I find it very hard to believe there isn't at least one scum in Zantetsu/Norwegian/BattleMage, but I don't mind it fow now. As long as we can come to an agreement that we lynch someone from the profii-wagon at it's peak.
And that someone isn't profii.

I know, I ask for a lot...

I agree there is

at least

1 scum in that trio, although think we'll have a lot more clarity once Proffi is lynched.

why would there be necessarily a scum in zant norwe battle

i know norwee is town so
why would there be a scum in zant/battlemage?

You know Norweg is town? Please share.

You're clearly town but just dont talk to me

What difference does it make? You've not directly responded to one thing I've said to you anyway, so why do you care if I talk to you?

I'd say battle mage

Why?

I can answer this! It's because I'm the only one pushing for him to be lynched!

I believe the good mafia players call it an 'OMGUS'.

NorwegianboyEE, Mage and Zant are three of the towniest slots in the game atm, I don’t see why there must be scum within those three.
For now.

I can't believe you actually think this.

I've sorted my thoughts and this is where i'm at with my reads right now. If anyone needs clarification just ask me.

Town

- Zantetsu
- Luca Blight

Townlean

- Saudade
- 72offsuit
- Egix96

Null/Either way

- Riabi
- Looker
- Battle Mage
- profii

Scumlean

- Anotora
- Churros

Scum

- UnaBombaH

Why is Zantetsu your top town-read?

That is a very pretty list Norwegian.

I think we need to talk about UnaBombaH because we have polar opposite reads there. The problem is that if I give you my explanation it's possibly going to put some bullseye's on some people ...

So i take it you have a good reason to not see UnaBombaH as scummy? Something to do with game mechanics? Is that what you're hinting at?

Yes.

This is an awful interaction.

[Battle Mage]

Less than 1 day.

Oh wow people's reads change in mafia?
Seriously can you stop scumreading trivial shit and actually get your head in the game?

It was a joke - you need to chill out.

What are you going to do if I actually vote for you!?

I guess to "prove you wrong" i was supposed to keep my same vote on a wagon that would never get enough votes to actually become a lynch? Yeah that's real smart.

Nah, probably the best move would have not been to say "I'm never moving off this wagon" when you've been all over the place so far this game. It was too predictable (as I showed!)

[Battle Mage]

This is an awful interaction.

Yeah i actually agree that was a really stupid thing of me to say in hindsight, i was just curious why he would defend Una to this extent.

Not a trick question: Why do you believe him?

[Battle Mage]

I re read

I cant find what I was remembering about battle mage so I'm going to forget about it

I think you remembered I was trying to lynch you. <3

I skimmed through the ISOs of people voting for me...

VOTE: anotora

Like I can get why people voted for me for "not scum hunting"
I then posted a theory about the way Una, which seemed tinfoil hat but it was driven by the fact that a vote on me was quite natural at the time, yet Una said no no no for no apparent reason

That for some reason killed the wagon, with people saying "yeah you have a point" (personally I'm surprised my theory carried so much traction given I expected to die)

This is a good observation. In particular, Norweg really bought into your theory - do you agree with me that this was suspicious?

But generally looking at how my wagon came and went, anotora stands out as not fitting in because they dont reference this narrative which feels unnatural

Battle mage is still up there because they are already trying to work out scum 2 after I flip. I'm putting this down to tunneled townie because the scum case on me was fair given my lack of scum hunting

But in fact I've just talked myself out of BM scum... I was going to say they were lining up my lynch and then the next lynch, but that wont work because when I flip the whole narrative will change to "oh we really thought profii was scum"

And I'm not seeing stuff from BM like "if we lynch profii, we should lynch X, but if I'm wrong lynch Y" (I.e. a plan for my town flip)



Ehhh

This is also a fair observation - I'm all-in on you being scum!!

[Battle Mage]

This is an awful interaction.

Yeah i actually agree that was a really stupid thing of me to say in hindsight, i was just curious why he would defend Una to this extent.

Not a trick question: Why do you believe him?

Ah, so you do have a sense of humour!

But I do want a serious answer please.

[Battle Mage]

Read into anotora boys, scum has already been caught

Are you saying you think Anotora is scum? Or are you saying you think he's found scum and is pointing it out in his posts?

Although in the nicest possible way, I'd be keen to know if those who have played with Norweg before have seen him react this way under scrutiny as scum, town or both?

Are you looking just for opinions or for links to games?

opinions would work!

[Battle Mage]

I agree there is at least 1 scum in that trio, although think we'll have a lot more clarity once Proffi is lynched.

What kind of clarity do you expect to get from a profii lynch about whether or not Norwegian and I are scumbuddies?

Well, if Proffi is scum, Norweg will be top of the list tomorrow. And if Norweg is scum, you are top of the list on Day 3. I've got it all mapped out.

[Battle Mage]

I believe there's a chance they are

scum who see an opportunity to save me for later as an easy mislynch

.

I'm working on the theory that you soon won't be mislynchable. But what you said here is starting to shake the foundation of my theory. And I'm not OMGUSing here, I'm talking not about the fact that

you think I would save you for an easy mislynch

, it's that you think an easy mislynch of you will be possible.

If you were town, I think rather than post stuff like this, you would be questioning Norweg (as I am) about his reaction to your flirting.

Is the bold a freudian slip?

If you're going to persist in not-so-subtly trying to expose other players roles anyway, I would think you should:

A. Press Norweg to answer whether he bought your hints about game mechanics, and if so, why. (before explaining your reasoning).
B. Explain your reasoning.

[Battle Mage]

Zantetsu can you just say why you don't believe Una shouldn't be the lynch? Because i feel like this is going nowhere.

Ah ah ah, I've asked you 3 times to explain what YOU think. Why won't you?

Unvote, Vote: Norweg

Make the answer a good'un!

[Battle Mage]

Ah ah ah, I've asked you 3 times to explain what YOU think. Why won't you?

Because i don't respect you as a player.

Apparently you don't respect yourself enough as a player, to actually play the game, rather than make personal insults at me for no reason. Boring.

For me, it's not a question of whether I respect you as a player. It's a question of whether you are town or scum. And the shameless evasiveness when you are caught piggybacking Zantetsu with no justification, is the final nail for me!

[Battle Mage]

I’m not gonna lie. I didn’t join this game to play mafia, i joined this particular game to play with one of my friends who invited me over here. But then they’ve been VL/A for 3 days and i’m stuck dealing with Battle Mage tunneling me. It’s just depressing.

Very touching. I don't buy it.

[Battle Mage]

I think battle mage is tunneling me but I hadn't really noticed

Ah I was! But no more! Norweg is the play for today, I've decided!

[Battle Mage]

opinions would work!

Why do you think you can trust anyone's opinion about how Norwegian behaves?

I didn't say I would take the opinions as gospel... I just thought it was a bit more reasonable to ask for opinions than ask for players do meta analysis for me. Either way, comments will be subject to the usual A-grade professional scepticism!

I agree there is at least 1 scum in that trio, although think we'll have a lot more clarity once Proffi is lynched.

What kind of clarity do you expect to get from a profii lynch about whether or not Norwegian and I are scumbuddies?

Well, if Proffi is scum, Norweg will be top of the list tomorrow. And if Norweg is scum, you are top of the list on Day 3. I've got it all mapped out.

OK so if profii flips scum first, then you think Norweg must be his scumbuddy. And if Norweg flips scum, then you think I must be

his

scumbuddy. And you have already stated that you think profii is definitely scum.

So by extension you must believe that you've found the entire scum trio on D1? Are you for real?[/quote]

I did say I'm a bad player - seriously, check any of my games. But at least by getting my chips in early, one of these days I'll look like a genius!

[Battle Mage]

Zantetsu can you just say why you don't believe Una shouldn't be the lynch? Because i feel like this is going nowhere.

OK well here goes. Unfortauntely Una's recent post and especially profii's recent post, both of which I isssued questions about, have kind of put a dent in my theory. But here it is, under a spoiler tag because it's quite a wall.

Spoiler:

I think that UnaBombaH is Informed that profii has a role. My evidence:

1. His first vote was on profii. That's some coincidence given that it's now profii that he claims should not be lynched.
2. In post 99 profii is first in his list of players he feels like he can read correctly. I think that is signalling that he knows something about profii.
3. post 258 bolds "I do not want profii lynched today". And says "I'll be a lot more adamant about profii once I see how this day pans out IF WE LYNCH SOMEWHERE ELSE." And the big one: "I believe profii could offer a lot for this game in the coming days, one way or another."
4. post 277 "And if you can't compromise with profii today, then go for it, and I'll try to do my best explaining afterwards."

(1) and (2) establish UnaBombaH association with profii well before profii was ever the target of any wagon.

In (3) UnaBombaH does not want profii lynched today. Why? There must be a specific reason. It can't be just because "he thinks someone on the profii wagon was scum", because that itself woudn't be evidence that profii is town since scum could be bussing. There is another reason UnaBombaH wants profii to live.

Also in (3) he hints that he will know more, and presumably we will know more, if profii is allowed to live - "I'll be more adamant about profii once I see how this day pans out".

And finally in (3) he suggests profii could offer a lot for the game in coming days. If that is not nearly a direct statement that profii has a role, I do not know what would be. And he says "one way or another". Note that, I'll talk about it in a second.

Finally in (4) he says that if profii is lynched he'll try explaining afterwards, which suggests to me that he knows something about profii that if profii is lynched, he will be able to explain presumably because he will be able to state that he knew that profii had whatever role profii has and give as evidence all of the quotes that I quoted above, and possibly more.

I think that there are two likely possibilities here:

a. That UnaBombaH is Informed that profii has a role, something like "profii is a roleblocker" or "profii is a cop". But his Informed info does not tell him the alignment, so it could be scum or town (remember - "one way or another"). Which is why he wants profii to live, to see if profii's actions can confirm him as town.

b. That UnaBombaH and profii are in fact masons together. This would give some reasoning to profii's first claim -- that there are no masons - because he knew that Saudade is *not* a mason with them and instead of claiming mason to prove it, he just said he is informed that there are no masons, which would discredit Saudade in the same way as claiming mason but without the bullseye on him that a mason claim would bring. Both have made some effort to keep the other alive in their recent postings. And profii has offered to allow himself to be the lynch, possibly because he knows that with all of the quotes from UnaBombaH that i made above, Una could credibly argue that he is a mason.

However, there is a big problem with (b). Una has stated numerous times that he would be happy to see profii lynched on subsequent days. This wouldn't make much sense for a mason to say about another mason. One could conjecture that he was just trying 'not to make it too obvious' that they were masons but with all of the other ways he has be 'obvious' in trying to keep profii alive, I don't know why he would have such a conflicted approach.

Therefore I think it's much more likely that it's (a) - Una is imformed of profii's role. but not his alignment.

Now we have to decide, does this make Una scum or town? And does it make profii scum or town?

Well taking Una first. The entire concept of a scum informed that a town player has a role just seems stupid to me from a setup spec perspective. It would simply be 100% utility for scum and would give them an immediate NK target. It just seems beyond comprehension that a game would ever be set up in this way. So Una, if informed of profii's role, must be town.

Now taking profii. He could be either scum or town, but if scum with a role, I just think he would have played a much quieter game. Certainly wouldn't have started with a fake informed mason claim. Just the way he's played, I would not call it careful in any way shape or form. I just expect scum to play more carefully.

Anyway, just assume for a moment that Una is Informed that profii has a role. Then go back and read Una's ISO. I feel like a lot of it makes sense with that assumption in place. You will see that as Una is

concentrating on profii

, he is signalling that he knows something about profii that the rest of us do not.

I can buy this as a town post. A definite attempt at detailed and constructive reasoning. However, premises 1 and 2 don't hold, if you'd noted that Proffi and Una had played together recently. This appeared to be a logical explanation for their early interactions. If they were masons, it's almost the opposite of how I'd expect Una to play - he would likely subtly breadcrumb at the start, and then not be too conspicuous. Here he pretended to think Proffi was scum at the start and then shamelessly buddy him.

[Battle Mage]

It is also the fact that nobody is really supporting Battle Mage. Showing that he is alone and not group!scum.

Yeah, where my homies at!?

In fact I'm gonna drop my town feelings on norwe because I think there's a possibility he is playing tough because he knows it would be expected from scum!him to play soft, and playing soft never worked in the end for scum!him I think.

Norwe any recent games where you have this same attitude? This a lot different than I've seen you in any other game, even the recently finished game we came out of.

This feels...ultra weird for Norwe. Granted I actually didn't read 70% of the game and posts in my recently finished mini with him, but I don't remember this ultra-aggressive vibe coming from him.

This is exactly what I was after. Even Norweg's close personal friend thinks this is atypical scummy behaviour.

I'm all caught up. That took me a bit more than expected.

I'm gonna sleep with [Saudade, Norwe] as town. I regained my good feelings on Norwe with some of his very recent posts. I'll chalk up his bolder approach here as...I don't know, mood?

I see why people like [Luca, Zan] but as of right now I just don't feel good giving them any town lean. Luca push on me was very very reachy, and Zan town reading Profi for being too scummy is...uh.

This reads as town for me - not sticking with the script.

Only 5 pages left to catch up on...phew! Other reflections at this stage: Riabi and Una have been talking alot of sense recently. Not sure how to read that from Una in particular, who was floundering early in the game.

If

they are town, they are strong town.

[Battle Mage]

Did Una say anything important? I didn’t really read most of it.

Yeah he talked more sense in 2 posts than most people in the entire game.

I tried to be open, understanding and all because of Norwe's sake but this kind of bullshit reasoning is why I find playing scum not really hard. I'm clearly getting a default scum read in a group mentality in a stale gamestate and Luca "scum hunting" is rather predatory and biased. I don't get for a second the impression you're trying to read my slot, I rather get the impression you're trying to justify a scum read on me.

This game is making me remember why I retired from mafia and created this alt to play low-effort. It's also making me remember why I don't waste my time anymore explaining things.

I stayed up to almost midnight efforting this game and I don't sense anyone is reading my posts without bias of thinking I might be scum for an incoventional entrance and some lurking in the weekend.

For fuck sake.

What is with Churros and Norweg freaking out as soon as anyone suspects them? I actually had Churros as town based on his analysis, prior to this meltdown. Although that's partly because I've already got enough bigger suspects, and someone has to be town. Gut feeling is Luca still town, especially with moving back to Proffi.

Btw Luca are you actually ok with voting Anotoras? Because that seems like a wagon most people can agree on and i highly suspect it will be the best compromise lynch possible.

Bloodthirsty.

Norwe any recent games where you have this same attitude? This a lot different than I've seen you in any other game, even the recently finished game we came out of.

town!Churros shouldn't ask a question like this. It's like asking 'hi if you're scum can you please cherry pick some evidence of that to fool me?"

It feels like a fake question meant to look like Churros is trying to be fair.

That being said, I am liking what I am reading from Churros' catch up so far outside of this question.

How come you didn't make the same accusation of me when I asked this same question as Churros?

I thought antora was scummy but he was off my wagon quite early . I thought I was dead so I assume scum would think they are getting a lynch done, dont think youd get off so early so perhaps as rethink here is warranted

Anotora didn't leave your wagon early.

[Battle Mage]

Well I'm happy enough with a Proffi lynch!

However if nothing else sticks, NORWEG NEEDS TO BE LYNCHED TOMORROW.

============================={}

Unvote, Vote: Proffi

[Battle Mage]

Well I'm happy enough with a Proffi lynch!

However if nothing else sticks, NORWEG NEEDS TO BE LYNCHED TOMORROW.

============================={}

Unvote, Vote: Proffi

Did you just hammer it like that

Calling for Norwe lynch without actually seeing the profi flip as well...?

I did just hammer it like that! Feels so good after more than 9 years!

Yep, although case for Norweg-scum is much stronger with Proffi-scum flip, I still think there's a chance Norweg is scum even if Proffi was town.

You say you're happy with a profi lynch but your post about norwe needing to be lynched tomorrow don't make it seem like you believe profi is flipping scum, at all?

Like, profi/norwe as a team isn't exactly natural way to go about a red flip from profi. That post is puzzling.

As above, I'm pretty confident Proffi is flipping scum, and even more confident Norweg is scum. I put that out there so it doesn't get lost tomorrow.

Ok if profi flips town I think Anotora might be scum or at least one from [Zant, BP] is scum as well. Especially BP.

I don't understand how BP can talk about lynching norwe tomorrow when that comes from a mindset of profi flipping town. It may not outright say it but do you think that's a post of someone hammering someone that he scum reads?

Am I BP? I did wonder in some of your earlier posts

If you don't think I read Proffi as scum, I don't know what to tell ya...read some of my posts this game? I haven't been that subtle

[Battle Mage]

Ok I'm having a mind blow, I didn't pay much attention to some of your posts but you're actually associating Norwe/profi? I thought those were separated reads.

Well I was....if Proffi is legit town then that theory goes...

[Battle Mage]

Battle Mage i hope i don't need to spell out the obvious here. But my associations with Profii if he flips scum are nonexistent. This is assuming he even flips scum, which i don't know why you believe when Profii claimed VT when he was hammered.

I didn't see he claimed post-lynch until after I'd posted.

[Battle Mage]

that theory goes...

Into the toilet where it belongs.

Are you seriously gloating right now?

Funny how quick people turn up to throw shade at me after the hammer...

[Battle Mage]

Vote: Zantetsu

[Battle Mage]

And here's a perfect example of what I mean, you're voting Anotora based on a post that has no reasoning behind it, and doing so without any reasoning of your own.
Do you have an actual reason for your vote?

Obviously - everyone that voted for Anotora yesterday is dead.

But did you orchestrate that?

[Battle Mage]

Yea, Looker is the designated mislynch for scum today apparently.
Think of him as profii 2.0.

Norwegian might say whatever he wants about it, but my gutread on profii was accurate, and I wish enough of you guys could've trusted me just a bit more.

I'm comfortable you're probably town. And also Luca and Norweg are probably town.

Who do you think is scum?

[Battle Mage]

Battle Mage, join me on the only real wagon today.
I've made up my mind, and I really want to VOTE: Luca Blight today.

Ah I didn't read this before I posted. Not convinced by a Luca wagon.

And as for Looker - I have no idea, I find him next-to-impossible to meta.

[Battle Mage]

Luca Blight is scum.
Won't vote anyone else for now.

Why?

[Battle Mage]

Scum:
Zantetsu
Anotora
Churros

Neutral:
72offsuit
Riabi
Egix96
Looker

Town:
NorwegianboyEE
Luca Blight
UnaBombaH

This is roughly where I am in terms of reads. Interested in exploring the Anotora-Churros relationship as possible partners. I need a re-read of Zant, but outstandingly my top pick for a lynch today.

[Battle Mage]

This is why I should check before I post...

I have a guilty on him?
Barring a mod-error, he is scum.

Until that however, I will give you list of players that I feel like I can read correctly

once I get enough actions to analyze

:

profii

Luca Blight

Saudade

Normally I'd try to drag out my claim to try and get more guilties/inno's out of it, but I recognize his position in this town to be high enough to never get lynched unless I act now.
So yea, I checked Luca last night, since you wouldn't let me confirm profii N1.
Saudade is dead too, so glad I decided to follow my own order.

You're claiming a cop with a guilty on Luca? Well that works for me.

Unvote, Vote: Luca

[Battle Mage]

72 - the short answer is, you're right - I forgot Proffi flipped town.

Can we just start this day over?

Once we get to the bottom of all these claims, I'll do some proper analysis.

[Battle Mage]

I am a town neighbor, my neighbor is 72.

What is your result?

Can confirm, so unless Luca is a scum neighbour, Una is lying.

VOTE: Una

What's a scum neighbour? I assumed this was like a mason, but the whole point of masons is they are confirmed town to each other. So you're saying you confirm Luca's claim, but it doesn't mean he's town?

[Battle Mage]

Ok well with that somewhat clarified, and in the spirit of the day, I'm claiming as well

I'm a '

PT Cop

', which means I can investigate people and find out if they are in private threads (which presumably is because we have neighbours and scum).

Last night I investigated Zantetsu and he came up positive. Given the claims and his reaction seems pretty unlikely he is a neighbour/mason, so he must be scum.

Vote: Zantetsu

[Battle Mage]

If Zantetsu is scum as Battle Mage claims, it raises the possibility that he is trying to redirect our attention from one of Luca/Una. As evidenced by his "This is probably a mod error" stance.

I'm still not completely sure what the implication of all those claims was. It felt like Una had no reason to claim like that as scum (which is why I was happy to go with it at the outset), and the role seems plausible given other known roles in the game. I have no idea about the neighbour claims...
Although as Zantetsu-scum astutely notes, that's probably just because I'm dumb.

[Battle Mage]

I'm also wondering why Una, as Town, would have targeted me anyway? Was he scumreading me D1?

To be fair, he claims to have gone in order of his list of players he said at the start of the game he could read well. It might not be the best move, but in the context of his play so far, I can definitely buy it.

There's clearly been a mod error, but the way Una has gone about it doesn't sit well with me.

He has a hunch there was an error, but rushes forward to reveal his result anyway? Why not wait for the mod's reply, and why the certainty that I'm scum based on that ambiguous result?

It could be he's trying to use the situation as a 'dumbtell' to be townread. That's a pretty low thing to do but I've seen it happen. I'll wait and see what his explanation is anyway.

On Day 1 he was claiming near-certainty Proffi was town, which in retrospect, seems like a really bad move for someone with an investigative role (who might want to breadcrumb near certainty when they have actual evidence). But if Una was town, the eager claim is pretty much exactly what I'd expect him to do given how he approached Day 1, particularly the latter part of it.

[Battle Mage]

Egix96 is worth a read in light of Zantetsu-scum.

His contributions yesterday were essentially:

AM - Discuss reads with Zantetsu (Zant is the only person he talks to about anything serious)
PM - Bandwagon Proffi

He did note that although voting for Proffi, he thought Anotora was more likely to be scum (although little evidence of that from his posts).

[Battle Mage]

Can someone explain the Mod error thing to me? Like, if the Mod made an error, does that mean Una is confirmed town? and Luca-72offsuit confirmed neighbours?

[Battle Mage]

[*]@Battle Mage: I have no way to prove that I didn't.

• Also, does meta mean 'read' to you or are you actually looking at some of my old games?

I read a bunch of your old games...

[Battle Mage]

BM I have lower, as null - felt townie during the day but the early hammer was bad and

denied me posting my reads and getting reaction to my reads from others

.

Null
BM
621 - Scummy post and vote. Early hammer

denied me posting my reads and getting reaction to my reads from others

.

Ok I get the hint! But it was hardly an early hammer, and based on how you'd played on Day 1, I don't think you really believe I was scummy for hammering before you could post your reads.

[Battle Mage]

Having mulled things over, i'd rather follow a guilty made by someone i trust rather than my own scumread off of Una.
VOTE: Zantetsu

Aww shucks man... <3

[Battle Mage]

Norwe does make a good point, Im not seeing a lot of upside from a fake claim from BM at this point....

That said, I definitely bumped on the post when I read it, and something about it definitely feels off.

BM, is there any chance you have any corroborating evidence? Like, any chance you breadcrumbed your role or anything like that?

Nah not much corroborating evidence. It's a subtle difference, but I did use a higher than usual amount of cop emojis (normally I'm a bit more judicious with them). And when Una claimed, I asked if he was claiming "a cop" rather than "the cop" because I knew I was also an investigative role.

Had to keep it a bit subtle with Zant-scum shamelessly rolefishing on Day 1...

[Battle Mage]

If Una or Luck is scum then he could be trying to protect his scum buddy by diverting from that issue.

Who do you think it is then, assuming this is the case?

Well like I said it seems like an impossible choice

Then why did you suggest it? It's a bit late to be throwing weak shade at me now! I've got ya!

[Battle Mage]

Ok well with that somewhat clarified, and in the spirit of the day, I'm claiming as well

Nothing has been clarified. But nice job trying to pick your moment for this bs claim.

I said "somewhat" clarified, with great respect to your earlier efforts.

I'm a '

PT Cop

', which means I can investigate people and find out if they are in private threads (which presumably is because we have neighbours and scum).

What a convenient role for you to claim, given that it suddenly has the same effect as a cop given the fact that a neighborhood was just revealed.[/quote]

Well it's more like a convenient time to claim, given you are much less likely to be a mason now (which is the main weakness of my role).

Last night I investigated Zantetsu and he came up positive. Given the claims and his reaction seems pretty unlikely he is a neighbour/mason, so he must be scum.

This is complete bs. I could not possibly have come up positive in an investigation by a PT Cop. I am not in any private threads.

Well that was easy!

Confirm Vote: Zantetsu

[Battle Mage]

Jesus Norwegian don't you see how Battle Mage is trying to pocket you here?

He goes from "Now that this is somewhat clarified" in justifying this bs claim to "Can someone explain the Mod error thing to me? Like, if the Mod made an error, does that mean Una is confirmed town? and Luca-72offsuit confirmed neighbours?". Clearly he is just throwing out whatever sentiment he thinks will justify his actions.

I dunno, maybe he is just reaction testing but ... jesus.

This game.

This is pathetic...

[Battle Mage]

Why are you deferring to Battle Mage instead of answering the question?

Are you pushing the burden of proof on me? You're the one that's under suspicion right now, not me.

I do think it's a valid question, and in a game where all scum players are still alive, I think the idea of only the person who's under the most suspicion being the only one to have to answer questions is silly. Town should be trying to find all scum simultaneously.

This is a fair point - would be good to get people's thoughts on who Zant's buddies are likely to be!

If Una or Luck is scum then he could be trying to protect his scum buddy by diverting from that issue.

Who do you think it is then, assuming this is the case?

Well like I said it seems like an impossible choice

Then why did you suggest it? It's a bit late to be throwing weak shade at me now! I've got ya!

Because 'impossible' doesn't literally mean 'impossible' in this situation obviously. It just means very unlikely. I was asked to give possible reasons for why scum!you would make this fake claim, and I did. Are you saying I should not have answered the question?

[Battle Mage]

This is a fair point - would be good to get people's thoughts on who Zant's buddies are likely to be!

As much as this saddens me to say, assuming Una's weird role actually does confirm Luca being scum. It seems a Luca/Zantetsu scum team might be possible. Although i'd definitely want to lynch Zantetsu first, i believe BM's claim more than Una's right now.

A Luca-Zant scumteam would be pretty surprising, given how blatantly Zant buddied him on Day 1. (yes I finally got round to that re-read!)

And where does that leave 72offsuit?

[Battle Mage]

Oh wow.
I'm going to give you my full role now, and I do not feel bad about the way I acted.
I just think this is a bullshit role to have, compared to the way it works.
I've lost all interest in this game now, because my honest opinion is that my role doesn't work like it "should".
I've consulted the wiki almost ten times after I got my Role-PM, and thought my role works in quite a clear way.
I even made a clear implication to the mod before the game started, about how I assumed my role would work, and he didn't feel like correcting me.

My actual role, and full claim is

Simple Combined Neapolitan Doctor.

My actual result after mod doublechecking is "not Vanilla Townie".
Now, I checked multiple times from the wiki, and it explicitly says

Simple is a role modifier that modifies the way in which an active action is used; it causes the action to fail, as though it were roleblocked, when used against a player who is not vanilla. In other words, only Vanilla Townies and Goons of the various anti-town factions will be affected by a Simple action; other players are too complex to be vulnerable.

MEANING THAT I SHOULD ONLY GET THIS RESULT FROM A VANILLA-MAFIA, RIGHT?!?

Well, now mod has returned to me, and given me an answer.
Since I can't directly quote our PM's, I'm going to paraphrase it next:
My doctor action only works on vanilla town. Sure, makes sense.
But I'm then told that I will still get a "Not Vanilla Town" -result, on anyone that doesn't have a "Vanilla Town" role pm.
WHY?
Why doesn't the Simple-modifier affect on the FIRST ROLE MENTIONED, BUT AFFECTS THE SECOND?

So you're saying Luca might not be scum after all? As he has claimed a non-vanilla townie role!

[Battle Mage]

Una - Nothing about your claim makes me think you are scum. Apart from, to Zant's point, it does seem on the extreme-end of wackiness...
I don't even fully understand it - you are a doctor for vanilla townies only, and for any non-vanilla townies you get a "not vanilla" result? So it's sort of a half-cop/half-doc?

[Battle Mage]

^^ bold was supposed to be on "Vanilla" obviously.
I'm just tired and annoyed so I can't focus.
Zantetsu should definitely be the lynch today, and assuming a scum-flip, you lynch Luca tomorrow no matter what he comes up with.
If Zantetsu flips town, tomorrow is reserved for a BattleMage-lynch obviously.

If Zantetsu and Luca Blight are scums then the most likely teammate is Egix96.

Solve= Zantetsu/Luca Blight/Egix96
Lynch in this order.
Zantetsu, if scum -> lynch Luca Blight, if scum -> lynch Egix96.

Why are you both so convinced Zant-scum means Luca-scum??

[Battle Mage]

I know you've had a lot on your mind but...you're still voting for Luca I think

[Battle Mage]

If either of Zantetsu/Luca flip town btw, you need to reconsider Norwegian D4.
For now, I'd consider him townbinned.

I'm going to check (and protect) Norwegian tonight anyway - can't protect our PT-cop with my simple mind.

umm, might be better not to say who you're targeting? Although I'm probably getting killed tonight anyway...

[Battle Mage]

I'm not quite sure what to say Zant...are you alleging I'm town fake-claiming to get you lynched?

Quite obviously not true, and no idea why Norweg bought it in 993...

[Battle Mage]

You could say ‘why would Zant go through all that effort to protect Una D1’ - again, to look Town.

And it worked as I was Tr’ing him.

Norwegian, look back at Zant’s D1 protection of Una, and how much effort he put into it.

Why would he do that if Una is Town and he’s scum?

Why would he make a rational wall post about Una’s result?

To look Town.

Of course that's possible, but I have to say, if I'm scum and I think Una is a cop or investigative of any kind really, I keep my mouth shut and just kill him.

This does raise a valid question, which is why did Zant-scum not kill Una last night if he actually believed he was a cop? It could be WIFOM for today of course, but not sure Zant would have expected to be on the chopping block today.

[Battle Mage]

My gut-instinct was that scum might've been informed about a PT-cop?
Would explain why my then-assumed guilty on Luca was immediately responded to by a hood-claim and confirmation.

Exactly. The timing is just too cute. Neighbors revealed and BM immediately claims PT Cop and does so with a weak "now that this confusion with Una's situation has been cleared up" which is 100% false posturing.

I was hoping that maybe BM was just reaction testing but he's been given ample opportunity to come clean on that and has not. Another alternative is that he is town just claiming a fake role to get extra oomph behind his reads. He had me, profii, and Norwegian in his scum pool yesterday so that fits. Although why he would not be

pulling this shit

with Norwegian instead I can't say because I'm not inside his head. I have seen town players fake cop claims before. It never ends well, but they do it anyway.

BM's attitude fits the bill on this - all the smileys which just shout to me "like me! pay attention to my posts! see my emotion!"

which at first I read as some weak scum faking but could be genuine. Notice how his attitude has so drastically changed today. Players he was scum reading and whose intelligence he was quite frankly insulting (Norwegian) he's now all buddy buddy with and sending hearts to. He's shut up now and is just watching the game progress, probably with glee as he observes the confusion he's caused. I have definitely seen

players whose ego directs their play like this before. And I explicitly stated that if he's not scum, he's dumb,

and I can see that triggering a town player with

such an ego to do something stupid.

This is the worst case scenario because it means that one of us will get lynched today, flip town, and the other very likely gets lynched tomorrow which sends the game to 4v3 LYLO with all or most town roles claimed which is very close to a scum win.

So BM if you're town who made a fake claim or who is still reaction testing you have to let us know before I get to L-1, preferably well before to avoid the chance that I get lynched and lead to the 4v3 I described.

If BM is scum then I can only say they must have a plan. Or alternately BM is just winging it,

the ego I described above can go do stupid stuff

as scum just as easily as it can as town. In this case my lynch today is not the worst thing because it is a 1 for 1 trade with scum which is fine for town. My biggest concern would be that knowing that this is not the most optimal play for scum means that they probably have a plan and sacrificing Battle Mage is in that plan. If the plan were to have BM claim tomorrow that he was town just making a fake claim then hopefully what I have said here cuts that avenue off.

This is really lame, but kudos for trying. Slightly less kudos for being a douchebag unnecessarily in

bold

above.

I'll explain it to you, because it honestly isn't as complicated as you suggest - I'm a cop, I investigated you, you essentially admitted you were scum, now we're (hopefully!) going to lynch you.

[Battle Mage]

I'm not quite sure what to say Zant...are you alleging I'm town fake-claiming to get you lynched?

Quite obviously not true, and no idea why Norweg bought it in 993...

So what Zantetsu has been saying right now is all a fabrication to get off the hook?

I haven't caught up yet, so I might have missed something - what did he fabricate? I've only got as far as his claim that I'm town who fake-claimed cop.

[Battle Mage]

Too tired tonight, I'll catch up in the morning!

[Battle Mage]

Unvote

Would be good to catch up and post my final thoughts/last requests before I die

[Battle Mage]

Yeah, like i said. It's hard figuring out who's scum vs t

own that's not too bright

.

hey, I hope you're not putting me in that category!

[Battle Mage]

Re: discussion of whether my role name is legit - it is.

I hadn't heard of a PT Cop, or Traffic Analyst prior to this game, or even remembering seeing neighbours!

It was all much more simple back in my heyday, 10-12 years ago. We had vanilla town, mafia, maybe a doctor or a cop if you were getting really fancy...

[Battle Mage]

What? Are you claiming that roles like: "Simple Combined Neopolitan Doctor" is somehow hard to understand? Sigh, players these days.

I know, I mean it has "simple" in the name.

Can someone helpfully list who has claimed what, and who hasn't claimed?

And also if we are co-ordinating night actions, what everyone is doing? (particularly me)

[Battle Mage]

Can someone helpfully list who has claimed what, and who hasn't claimed?

bruh

- Unclaimed -
Looker
Riabi
Churros
Zantetsu
Anotora

- Claimed -
NorwegianboyEE (Claims Vanilla Townie)
Luca Blight (Claims neighbor with 72offsuit)
72offsuit (Claims neighbor with Luca Blight)
Battle Mage (Claims quote: "PT cop" with N1 guilty on Zantetsu)
UnaBombaH (Claims "Simple Combined Neopolitan Doctor" with a "not Vanilla Townie" result on Luca Blight)
Egix96 (Claims Friendly Neighbor. Crumbed in first post.)

- Dead -
Profii

Vanilla Townie

Saudade

2-shot Jailkeeper

Ok great, and Egix said he was not confirmed because his role is gated or something? Which means he can only use it at certain times/frequency?

[Battle Mage]

Mage and Una both target Looker.

Egix target Norwegian

?

*shrug* I can roll with that, unlikely I'll survive tonight anyway

[Battle Mage]

ok I'm gonna

Vote: Zantetsu

to get us back to -2.

[Battle Mage]

@Zantetsu
What you're saying now sounds a whole lot better than what you've said initially. So i think it's time to take a step back and find out just what in the heck is going on in this game.
UNVOTE:

Well to be fair I had been blindsided by a fake claim and then had to puzzle through a role claim from Una that just did not compute beyond mod error, and bad modding by itself normally kind of triggers me.

Anyway, after thinking for some time I realized that there really is not much that town can do beyond lynch me, but at least that's a 1:1 trade and VT for scum is a good trade so it's not a bad outcome. On the off chance that BM was just going rogue and playing badly this could be a good thing actually. I wish town could take the leap of faith to trust me but I understand why this is highly unlikely.

My biggest concern is that scum most likely has a plan and I haven't read really anything yet that suggests that anyone has any idea of how to address that.

pedit:

Battle Mage unvotes me because he needs to catch up and post final thoughts, then doesn't even bother to do that before re-voting. I can't believe I'm going to get lynched

because of this moron

... sigh.

What a lovely speech, but again belied by the lack of class at the end. You only have yourself to blame - if you hadn't been so conspicuously scummy on Day 1, I wouldn't have investigated you last night.

[Battle Mage]

who is BP?

[Battle Mage]

See'ing Zantetsu's reaction to the guilty, I think he is probably indeed the scum but I'm gonna ask you do the proper procedure just in case. Better safe than sorry.

There is literally

no reaction

I could have had that you would not be saying made me look guilty. The scummier thing would have been to fake some claim to try to keep myself alive.

This is true tbf.

I sympathize with you here because you’ve played well (assuming you’re scum), and your reaction to the claim even seemed quite sincere.

Yeah, his defence of "BM is town fake-claiming" was a really strong play.

[Battle Mage]

Bored now! Lynch Lynch Lynch.

[Battle Mage]

I'm still here

[Battle Mage]

well if we're going with one of the claimed neighbours, I guess it has to be Danyboy, due to the shameless defending of Zant by his predecessor.

Vote: Danyboy

[Battle Mage]

VOTE: Battle Mage for being weirdly flippant in a maybe scummy way

Zantetsu is still town

ftr Nym was my alt but then i realised there's no point and i should just use my main

I didn't see this yesterday - one of those that doesn't play back very well...

[Battle Mage]

- Unclaimed -
Riabi
Churros
Eve

- Claimed -
Looker (Claims Vanilla Townie)
NorwegianboyEE (Claims Vanilla Townie)
Luca Blight (Claims neighbor with Idanyboy)
Idanyboy (Claims neighbor with Luca Blight)
Battle Mage (Claims PT cop)
Egix96 (Claims Gated Friendly Neighbor)

- Dead -
Profii

Vanilla Townie

Saudade

2-shot Jailkeeper

Zantetsu

Mafia Goon

UnaBombaH

Simple Combined Neapolitan Doctor

Well Churros should be able to confirm/refute Egix today. And if one of neighbours is scum, we can get definitely get a scum lynch over next 2 days.

I don't know if the remaining roles claiming here is worthwhile here or not?

There is always the tinfoil theory of Egix and Churros being a team, with Egix pretending to target Churros with a friendly neighbor shot. But it seems way too early to theorize about that. Other scumteams seem more likely.

Yeah according to the wiki friendly neighbour is like one of the hardest scum fakeclaims, so hoping Egix can be pretty much confirmed today! I remember he was gated, does that mean 1-use only? Otherwise, he could target others on subsequent nights and effectively remove the risk of Egix-Churros scumpair.

So Eve, i'm not sure i liked the way you defended Zantetsu yesterday.
Battle Mage, did you investigate Eve tonight?
Riabi is suspicious if Eve is town.

And i also feel that there is most likely one scum in Luca/Idannyboi hood.

As for Looker/Churros/Egix i believe they are most likely town.

I'm not sure what to say about my investigation result really. I targeted someone who hasn't claimed yet, so maybe a mass-claim is better, or maybe it doesn't matter in all likelihood...

Normally I'd say Eve's entrance couldn't possibly have been from scum, but it looked like she thought Zant still had a chance, so maybe it was a last ditch effort to save him. It would be an ambitious open for scum.

I need to do a re-read and maybe some of my patented vote-pattern-analysis!

[Battle Mage]

Norwegian is town - Day 2 interaction with Zant below:

Jesus Norwegian don't you see how Battle Mage is trying to pocket you here?

He goes from "Now that this is somewhat clarified" in justifying this bs claim to "Can someone explain the Mod error thing to me? Like, if the Mod made an error, does that mean Una is confirmed town? and Luca-72offsuit confirmed neighbours?". Clearly he is just throwing out whatever sentiment he thinks will justify his actions.

I dunno, maybe he is just reaction testing but ... jesus. This game.

I also find this: "He is pocketing you, Norwee" a weird stance to have. I think you’re just desperate to discredit his claim seeing as there is no real way out of this. Because neighbors already claimed, and having a traffic PT makes sense in a setup with a hood.

It would be a weird stance if it wasn't true. I mean it's right there in front of you.

I was pushed as scum by both Battle Mage and Una on day 1, yet now Battle Mage is apparently so eager to pocket me?
Well i'm honored if nothing else.

How do you explain his 180 on you then?

OK I'm done now. I am irritated by what BM has done but I think I have to get my emotions in check because my pointing out every scummy thing BM has done is not going to change the outcome and is just noise at this point. I am so annoyed though. Urgh.

You said you thought he was town earlier, now you’re pointing out all the scummy things he’s done? Ok...

Read my posts Norwegian. I said he might be town. Do you understand the difference between a statement of fact and a statement where numerous possibilities are enumerated? I am assuming you do but your posts don't always indicate that.

How do you explain his 180 on you then?

Beats me, why don't you ask him yourself?

Why are you deferring to Battle Mage instead of answering the question?

If he is town then the game should be rather simple though.

How so?

Because that means we lynch you, because you are scum.

That doesn't make the game simple though. There's a lot more game left after D2.

[Battle Mage]

Zantetsu is town

what did he claim?

If Zantetsu flips town BP should be turbo-lynched by the way, I'm not accepting any excuses when I actually went out of my way to ask him to confirm things and he gave it a cold shoulder.

I don't even remember this - what did you ask me to confirm??

[Battle Mage]

Main interesting early interaction from Zant-scum on Day 1 was to Anotora and Riabi. Anotora below:

VOTE: Anotora

Nice to meet you too.

So, Zantetsu, you knew that it might be a joke but kept rolefishing anyways? I don't like it.

Where was I rolefishing?

I didn't

know

it was a joke, I thought it was a joke. But since I didn't

know

I was going to let the players involved speak for themselves.

Also you've already accepted profii's claim so from your perspective there is no need for any roles to be fished.

So what is your point again exactly?

A bit tetchy?

Here is the vote progression on proffi:

Una (L-6)
Una - Luca (L-5)
Una - Luca- Norwegian (L-4)
Una - Luca - Norwegian - Anotora (L-3)
Una - Luca - Norwegian - Anotora - Exig (L-2)
Luca - Norwegian - Anatora - Exig (L-3)
Luca - Norwegian - Anotora - Exig - Riabi (L-2)
Luca - Norwegian - Anotora - Exig - Riabi - Battle Mage (L - 1)
Luca - Anotora - Exig - Riabi - Battle Mage (L - 2)
Anotora - Exig - Riabi - Battle Mage (L - 3)
Exig - Riabi - Battle Mage (L - 4)


Several people have used false reasoning based on incorrect vote counts on the profii wagon:

- Battle Mage falsely claimed L-1 and asked for a claim from profii
- profii answered the claim without ever questioning the need to since he was not actually at L-1
- Anotora falsely implied that profii was in danger of being hammered by me when profii was actually at L-3 and used that as justification to get off of the profii wagon

I really don't know what to make of all of this. Any of the three could be using intentional miscounts of the votes to advance some agenda but very unlikely all three are (which would require all to be scum).

My read of profii is "too scummy to be scum" at this point. His flailing in posts 134 - 201 were very scummy but his subsequent posts have been a lot better. The good news is that wagon progression I think gives us a lot of data going forward.

At this point I'm not on board with a lynch of profii or UnaBombaH today specifically because of their 'weird associations' as Luca put it.

Lists 3 scum - me, Profii and Anotora. Anotora-scum?

Do you think I'm scum?

1: You answered my question with another question.
2: That question doesn't answer my own question.

OK well the answer is, I am not entirely sure. There are 10 other players in the game I could focus on besides profii and Una and I expect to change my focus frequently going forward. Furthermore, if I have suspicions of players it is hardly to my benefit to pre-state them as you are requesting I do and if you think I am town I don't even see why you would want me to do that. At this point I have a town read on you but I think you have a scum read on me.

I had you as leaning town until this post. Isn't the entire point of the game to discuss who we have suspicions of and why? If you were to place all the players in this game on a spectrum from for-sure-scum to for-sure-town, can you tell us who would be closest to for-sure-scum, even if they aren't very close?

Sure I can. But that's not the question you asked previously, or at least that's not what I thought you were asking. The question "where EXACTLY do you want to focus" is a very different question to me than "what are your reads". The former implies that I can only answer with certainty and like I said I do not have certainty at this point.

Anyway, all that aside here are the players I am leaning town on:

Luca
Norwegian
Egix
UnaBombaH
profii

Here are the players I am leaning scum on:

Anotora
Battle Mage
Churros

The rest are basically null.

Anotora or Churros scum here? Cases on both (as he concedes below) are really weak, so looks like scum showboating with suspicion of a buddy, without actually trying to get them lynched.

I think it's pretty unlikely there wouldn't be at least 1 scum in your townleans Zantetsu. Which leads to my next point, you give townreads away too easily. That still doesn't mean i believe you are likely to be mafia yourself. I just don't agree with you.

Just looking at the profii wagon.

I think you and Luca are town because all your reasoning was good on the way to getting profii to L-2. He was acting super scummy once the wagon was on him, he was putting out every contradictory reason possible to save himself, but then when he started making better posts, you guys backed down in a way that seems very "appropriately cautious". profii didn't claim a power role which would have been the logical thing for scum!profii to do if he really thought his lynch was imminent. He didn't even double check his vote count and notice that he wasn't really at L-1. All of this adds up to a town lean on all three players for me.

egix hasn't posted a lot but I have liked his through process in the posts he has made. He got on the profii wagon at a time that I thought it made sense. And all of his subsequent posts I just liked. But the amount of content there is not enough for me to feel as confident as I do about the others in my town list.

UnaBombaH I have a theory about. Maybe my theory is wrong. But he has said things. I can point them out but really they are there for anyone re-reading his ISO to see.

Anotora I am weakly scum reading most because it is so hard for me to believe that They really believed Saudade's mason claim, then believed profii's fake counter-claim. That seems disingenuous. Also the fact that They so transparently followed Luca and Norwegian onto and off of the profii wagon. And finally, the casting shade so heavily at me - claiming I was rolefishing, but then not even caring that Battle Mage fished a claim out of profii when profii was not even L-1. But Anotora also has a very low post count and low content production so this is admittedly a pretty weak read.

Battle Mage it just feels inconsistent to me that he'd put as much effort into reading and forming theories and then not even vote count well enough to see that profii really was at L-2. Also I can't shake the feeling that Battle Mage is playing scum like I played it the first few times - just really try-hard and casting shade everywhere. And all those smileys ...

And Churros I didn't like how he immediately town read Norwegian for almost no reason. But this is just gut feel and he hasn't posted hardly anything so super weak read here.

[Battle Mage]

I think the best bet is a Lucas lynch, VOTE: Lucas. I’m pretty sure this is scum with the claims we have.

What about your perspective on his behaviour in the game, and in your private conversations?

[Battle Mage]

On re-read, Zant's behaviour to Riabi stands out much more:

Because of my absence, I'm a bit rusty, and I'm not sure I understand the logic of hardclaiming a Mason so early. Would someone mind explaining that to me?

Until I have a better understanding of that

VOTE: Saudade

Is that the third vote on a shitwagon?
VOTE: Riabi

There were two posts on that wagon already though. Why did you pick Riabi to vote? If Riabi hand't voted, would you have voted either of the other players on the sh**wagon? If Riabi leaves the wagon, will you vote one of the other two?

Defending Riabi.

Also Riabi - Norwegian is not only voting you, he's actively encouraging others to vote you. You have not even interacted with him. Why not?

Coaching Riabi.

Here is the vote progression on proffi:

Una (L-6)
Una - Luca (L-5)
Una - Luca- Norwegian (L-4)
Una - Luca - Norwegian - Anotora (L-3)
Una - Luca - Norwegian - Anotora - Exig (L-2)
Luca - Norwegian - Anatora - Exig (L-3)
Luca - Norwegian - Anotora - Exig - Riabi (L-2)
Luca - Norwegian - Anotora - Exig - Riabi - Battle Mage (L - 1)
Luca - Anotora - Exig - Riabi - Battle Mage (L - 2)
Anotora - Exig - Riabi - Battle Mage (L - 3)
Exig - Riabi - Battle Mage (L - 4)


Several people have used false reasoning based on incorrect vote counts on the profii wagon:

- Battle Mage falsely claimed L-1 and asked for a claim from profii
- profii answered the claim without ever questioning the need to since he was not actually at L-1
- Anotora falsely implied that profii was in danger of being hammered by me when profii was actually at L-3 and used that as justification to get off of the profii wagon

I really don't know what to make of all of this. Any of the three could be using intentional miscounts of the votes to advance some agenda but very unlikely all three are (which would require all to be scum).

My read of profii is "too scummy to be scum" at this point. His flailing in posts 134 - 201 were very scummy but his subsequent posts have been a lot better. The good news is that wagon progression I think gives us a lot of data going forward.

At this point I'm not on board with a lynch of profii or UnaBombaH today specifically because of their 'weird associations' as Luca put it.

No comment whatsoever on Riabi in terms of suspiciousness, despite being very suspicious of me for being the L-1 vote, and Riabi was L-2.

Looker, please give at least one reason why anyone should be voting Riabi.

Defending Riabi.

Do you think I'm scum?

1: You answered my question with another question.
2: That question doesn't answer my own question.

OK well the answer is, I am not entirely sure. There are 10 other players in the game I could focus on besides profii and Una and I expect to change my focus frequently going forward. Furthermore, if I have suspicions of players it is hardly to my benefit to pre-state them as you are requesting I do and if you think I am town I don't even see why you would want me to do that. At this point I have a town read on you but I think you have a scum read on me.

I had you as leaning town until this post. Isn't the entire point of the game to discuss who we have suspicions of and why? If you were to place all the players in this game on a spectrum from for-sure-scum to for-sure-town, can you tell us who would be closest to for-sure-scum, even if they aren't very close?

Sure I can. But that's not the question you asked previously, or at least that's not what I thought you were asking. The question "where EXACTLY do you want to focus" is a very different question to me than "what are your reads". The former implies that I can only answer with certainty and like I said I do not have certainty at this point.

Anyway, all that aside here are the players I am leaning town on:

Luca
Norwegian
Egix
UnaBombaH
profii

Here are the players I am leaning scum on:

Anotora
Battle Mage
Churros

The rest are basically null.

Again, Riabi conspicuous by absence from either list given the amount of effort Zant put into defending and coaching him early on.

I think it's pretty unlikely there wouldn't be at least 1 scum in your townleans Zantetsu. Which leads to my next point, you give townreads away too easily. That still doesn't mean i believe you are likely to be mafia yourself. I just don't agree with you.

Just looking at the profii wagon.

I think you and Luca are town because all your reasoning was good on the way to getting profii to L-2. He was acting super scummy once the wagon was on him, he was putting out every contradictory reason possible to save himself, but then when he started making better posts, you guys backed down in a way that seems very "appropriately cautious". profii didn't claim a power role which would have been the logical thing for scum!profii to do if he really thought his lynch was imminent. He didn't even double check his vote count and notice that he wasn't really at L-1. All of this adds up to a town lean on all three players for me.

egix hasn't posted a lot but I have liked his through process in the posts he has made. He got on the profii wagon at a time that I thought it made sense. And all of his subsequent posts I just liked. But the amount of content there is not enough for me to feel as confident as I do about the others in my town list.

UnaBombaH I have a theory about. Maybe my theory is wrong. But he has said things. I can point them out but really they are there for anyone re-reading his ISO to see.

Anotora I am weakly scum reading most because it is so hard for me to believe that They really believed Saudade's mason claim, then believed profii's fake counter-claim. That seems disingenuous. Also the fact that They so transparently followed Luca and Norwegian onto and off of the profii wagon. And finally, the casting shade so heavily at me - claiming I was rolefishing, but then not even caring that Battle Mage fished a claim out of profii when profii was not even L-1. But Anotora also has a very low post count and low content production so this is admittedly a pretty weak read.

Battle Mage it just feels inconsistent to me that he'd put as much effort into reading and forming theories and then not even vote count well enough to see that profii really was at L-2. Also I can't shake the feeling that Battle Mage is playing scum like I played it the first few times - just really try-hard and casting shade everywhere. And all those smileys ...

And Churros I didn't like how he immediately town read Norwegian for almost no reason. But this is just gut feel and he hasn't posted hardly anything so super weak read here.

This is pretty bad - gives reads on everyone on Proffi wagon... except Riabi for some reason.

If there’s a vig you’re the ideal target anyway given your claim.

I’m actually wondering if Profii/Una is s/s after all. Such weird interactions.

Early game Luca irked me

Right now I'm just nodding my head vigorously

I recommend to include Riabi on the list as well, his Saudade read isn't consistent, it kinda fluctuates from "must lynch" to "I want him to talk" with no reason.

It's not actually inconsistent. I think he's anti-town, and that's enough reason in my book to lynch someone early, regardless of alignment. That said, that doesn't mean I won't also vote to lynch someone I find worse/more scummy.

Riabi you've been popping in with very noncommittal statements all game.

You need to post a reads list and give some real original thoughts for your reads.

Some more coaching. It's almost cute...

[Battle Mage]

Ok so my reads list so far

Likely scum:
Riabi
Eve
Churros

idanyboy - Neighbour, probably him or Luca scum
Luca Blight - Neighbour, probably him or Danyboy scum

Neutral:
Looker

Likely town:
NorwegianboyEE
Egix96

[Battle Mage]

Black Mage, who did you target tonight?

Racist....

White Norwegian, it's probably better to say my result first - I got no result. Initially wondered if it's cause I targeted someone with immunity (hence thinking about value of a mass-claim), but more likely a mafia roleblocker targeted me.

[Battle Mage]

Second, Egix is scum.

...Ok well that changes things somewhat.

[Battle Mage]

hang on, if Egix was scum fakeclaiming, why wouldn't he just kill you last night? seems like a suicidal play...

[Battle Mage]

ok kidding Egix is:

Spoiler:

confirmed town.

did you heart beat a little faster Egix??

you had me!

[Battle Mage]

Alright Battle Mage. That's actually believable. Because Una dying instead of you made me a bit suspicious. But if they had roleblocker then that opens the possibility for them to kill Una while leaving you alive.

yeah I guess, although it could also just be that the person I targeted is immune! Which feels more likely to be a scum ability than town, although I'd want to see the claim before judging.

[Battle Mage]

Scum could also have roleblocked Una and killed you Battle Mage, but instead they saw Una as the more threatening player. Doesn't that make you feel bad?

...not as much as it should. I'm well aware I suck, although I'm doing ok so far here!

[Battle Mage]

some of those Riabi-Zentetsu interactions look almost too obvious but i've learnt my lesson from yesterday

VOTE: Riabi

was the lesson to bus your buddies?

Jokes aside, that's -2 already, so I'm feeling an Eve-Riabi scumpair unlikely.

[Battle Mage]

Based on this page alone, I support a mass-claim immediately.

[Battle Mage]

i isoed you at night

i didn't know battle mage had claimed pt cop or egix had claimed fn

wait what? why did you ISO Churros at night, rather than read key events during the day?

[Battle Mage]

Can we get this mass-claim rolling?

Riabi you're up first.

Unvote, Vote: Riabi

.

That's -1 btw, so no hammering please!

(I triple-checked this time)

[Battle Mage]

No, I can be wrong but I want to be cute to Eve so I'm not gonna scum read her today. I like her style, it's enjoyable to play with.

I'm gonna settle with Looker/danyboi today.

Probably danyboi should go first

VOTE: danyboi

I like your style Churros, but I'd like a claim better

[Battle Mage]

isn't it a little early to be mass claiming?

There's 3 people left unclaimed, any of them could be potential lynches (outside of the masons) and all the hinting, plus my result last night, is making me crave some clarity!

[Battle Mage]

...even when I'm confirmed town nobody listens to me.

Alright fine

Unvote, Vote: Danyboy

[Battle Mage]

No, I can be wrong but I want to be cute to Eve so I'm not gonna scum read her today. I like her style, it's enjoyable to play with.

I'm gonna settle with Looker/danyboi today.

Probably danyboi should go first

VOTE: danyboi

I like your style Churros, but I'd like a claim better

There's either none or 1 more town PR of reasonably strength. You/Una/Egix were pretty strong already.

Any other PR claim would be a bit silly, something pretty weak that wouldn't confirm their alignment. There's little point imo.

I know you might want to understand the setup to help your reads but this is the time we stop relying on the setup and start scum hunting.

We were already lucky enough about the guilty on N2. I had Zantetsu at my pool as I said in EoD day 1, but it wouldn't be the first slot for me to go to, or even one I could reasonably lynch with ease. It would be hard if anything.

Ok fine, that does make some sense.

[Battle Mage]

I thought it was pretty funny how everyone was talking around you Battle Mage.

Sometimes I wonder why I even play this bloody game...

[Battle Mage]

I'm happy with the plan we lynch Danyboy today, and if he flips town, Luca tomorrow. If Danyboy is scum, we'll be in a really strong position.

[Battle Mage]

isn't it a little early to be mass claiming?

There's 3 people left unclaimed, any of them could be potential lynches (outside of the masons) and all the hinting, plus my result last night, is making me crave some clarity!

okay

are there masons? or do you mean people from the 3 could claim mason?

ah I meant the neighbours sorry!

[Battle Mage]

another self-hammer?

wow that means we should lynch Norwee to stop that from happening

what are you talking about?

[Battle Mage]

Not sure if that’s the hammer or not but fmpov he’s nearly certain to be scum.

I'm slightly less convinced based on his final post and this contribution...

[Battle Mage]

Luca/Battle Mage/Egix locktown

Riabi, Eve, Looker the suspicious people.

Agree with this.

[Battle Mage]

I'm still down with a mass-claim

I got no result...although it wouldn't have mattered much as I investigated Churros

Also happy with a Looker lynch based on the Churros NK

Vote: Looker

[Battle Mage]

what

why would you investigate Churros after what he said yesterday?

What he said yesterday was precisely the reason I tried to investigate him!

[Battle Mage]

Battle Mage, you're town. But feel so scummy.

Well now you can appreciate one of the many reasons I suck at this game...

[Battle Mage]

Wow ok, catch up needed! hold onto your hats!

[Battle Mage]

Sorry I failed, need to sleep. I've V/LA'd from all other games due to being swamped at work #keyworker

But will figure out what is going on here before I start again in the morning.

[Battle Mage]

I've re-read the Churros-Eve interaction from yesterday, and I'm reasonably happy that the neighbouriser claim stacks up (although, contrary to what Eve asserted today, it was far from obvious to me that anything like that was going on at the time). I think Looker confirmed it today too. Presumably that's what Churros was referring to yesterday when he said something weird had happened the previous night which confirms me as town - another neighbourhood increases the value of the PT cop. Although isn't it more likely that the neighboriser would be scum than town, otherwise it means I've nearly got as much chance of hitting town at night as scum, which makes the role pretty useless (not that isn't already since I claimed).

Eve's ISO is not pleasant reading:

VOTE: Battle Mage for being weirdly flippant in a maybe scummy way

Zantetsu is still town

Eve had not read anything in the game (presumably besides the previous page or 2 to realise Zant was picking up some votes), but instinctively defends him and attacks me.

hmm well this is awkward

VOTE: Egix

Next vote is for Egix who is about as confirmed town as it gets.

norwee and battle mage seem like trustworthy individuals

i didn't know Egix had claimed FN - i voted him based off the final vc from yesterday

Confirms that the reason for voting Egix is because he hammered Zant-scum the previous day.

Eve next

how dare you

i'm killing you tonight

Hinting at being a Vig? Or claiming scum?

what

why would you investigate Churros after what he said yesterday?

Not sure why Eve is so angry I investigated Churros last night. Presumably if I'd been successful, and hadn't died, I could have confirmed them as neighbours. At the time, Churros was being mysterious and hadn't claimed, so felt like a good target. But not clear why it invoked that reaction.

the hood's only open at night btw

my predecessor targeted Saudade night 1 and failed

i think Battle Mage is scum and checking Churros instead of anyone useful is really scummy - especially given how much Churros and i kinda made it obvious there was something going in there yesterday

VOTE: Battle Mage

Ah, it was to set up a vote.

wait how did you know i was scum?

oh i misinterpreted the question

yes i could be a scum neighbouriser - this doesn't confirm me

Could be a joke, but the fact she corrected herself immediately afterwards, makes it look a lot more like a slip to me.

huh alright then

i didn't realise Battle Mage was the one who "caught" Zantetsu

VOTE: Norwee

i'll check Riabi tonight

Don't believe Eve did not know what happened with Zantetsu by this point, despite having claimed to be embarrassed at protecting him the previous day.

idk i'll probably sheep whatever Luca does but yeah your vote seemed a little opportunistic

claiming you are sheeping is always scummy.

Vote: Eve

- Scum Neighbouriser

[Battle Mage]

Right sorted,

I'm now V/LA for the next couple of days.

[Battle Mage]

---

• @Battle Mage: You being PT Cop is why I'm not excluding scum neighborizer. And also, I assume a single-man PT still counts as a PT?

Yes that's exactly my thought. Town neighbouriser feels less likely mechanics-wise, and when you add up Anotora and Eve posting, I'm pretty happy with the lynch today.

I don't know about single-man PT, won't really matter now but I can ask the Mod.

[Battle Mage]

In retrospect, lynching Eve today probably was dumb given the mechanics we already know (probably 1 scum left, with roleblocker). I got no result again last night.

Going back to the Zant-Iso, it has to be Riabi right?

Luca pretty much confirmed, 2 scum neighbours together feels a bit bastardised.

Looker confirmed as non-power-role, so must be town if there are 3 scum.

Vote: Riabi

[Battle Mage]

• @BM: What did the Mod say?
  • Also, who did you target?

VOTE: Bitmap What do you make of all this?

Ah I didn't ask! I'll ask now...

I targeted Riabi last night.

[Battle Mage]

Anyone want to fill me in or do I really have to read all 58 pages?

-bitmap

The main things to note are the final scum is either you or Riabi. Looker is confirmed town.

[Battle Mage]

This is why I think it's Riabi:

On re-read, Zant's behaviour to Riabi stands out much more:

Because of my absence, I'm a bit rusty, and I'm not sure I understand the logic of hardclaiming a Mason so early. Would someone mind explaining that to me?

Until I have a better understanding of that

VOTE: Saudade

Is that the third vote on a shitwagon?
VOTE: Riabi

There were two posts on that wagon already though. Why did you pick Riabi to vote? If Riabi hand't voted, would you have voted either of the other players on the sh**wagon? If Riabi leaves the wagon, will you vote one of the other two?

Defending Riabi.

Also Riabi - Norwegian is not only voting you, he's actively encouraging others to vote you. You have not even interacted with him. Why not?

Coaching Riabi.

Here is the vote progression on proffi:

Una (L-6)
Una - Luca (L-5)
Una - Luca- Norwegian (L-4)
Una - Luca - Norwegian - Anotora (L-3)
Una - Luca - Norwegian - Anotora - Exig (L-2)
Luca - Norwegian - Anatora - Exig (L-3)
Luca - Norwegian - Anotora - Exig - Riabi (L-2)
Luca - Norwegian - Anotora - Exig - Riabi - Battle Mage (L - 1)
Luca - Anotora - Exig - Riabi - Battle Mage (L - 2)
Anotora - Exig - Riabi - Battle Mage (L - 3)
Exig - Riabi - Battle Mage (L - 4)


Several people have used false reasoning based on incorrect vote counts on the profii wagon:

- Battle Mage falsely claimed L-1 and asked for a claim from profii
- profii answered the claim without ever questioning the need to since he was not actually at L-1
- Anotora falsely implied that profii was in danger of being hammered by me when profii was actually at L-3 and used that as justification to get off of the profii wagon

I really don't know what to make of all of this. Any of the three could be using intentional miscounts of the votes to advance some agenda but very unlikely all three are (which would require all to be scum).

My read of profii is "too scummy to be scum" at this point. His flailing in posts 134 - 201 were very scummy but his subsequent posts have been a lot better. The good news is that wagon progression I think gives us a lot of data going forward.

At this point I'm not on board with a lynch of profii or UnaBombaH today specifically because of their 'weird associations' as Luca put it.

No comment whatsoever on Riabi in terms of suspiciousness, despite being very suspicious of me for being the L-1 vote, and Riabi was L-2.

Looker, please give at least one reason why anyone should be voting Riabi.

Defending Riabi.

Do you think I'm scum?

1: You answered my question with another question.
2: That question doesn't answer my own question.

OK well the answer is, I am not entirely sure. There are 10 other players in the game I could focus on besides profii and Una and I expect to change my focus frequently going forward. Furthermore, if I have suspicions of players it is hardly to my benefit to pre-state them as you are requesting I do and if you think I am town I don't even see why you would want me to do that. At this point I have a town read on you but I think you have a scum read on me.

I had you as leaning town until this post. Isn't the entire point of the game to discuss who we have suspicions of and why? If you were to place all the players in this game on a spectrum from for-sure-scum to for-sure-town, can you tell us who would be closest to for-sure-scum, even if they aren't very close?

Sure I can. But that's not the question you asked previously, or at least that's not what I thought you were asking. The question "where EXACTLY do you want to focus" is a very different question to me than "what are your reads". The former implies that I can only answer with certainty and like I said I do not have certainty at this point.

Anyway, all that aside here are the players I am leaning town on:

Luca
Norwegian
Egix
UnaBombaH
profii

Here are the players I am leaning scum on:

Anotora
Battle Mage
Churros

The rest are basically null.

Again, Riabi conspicuous by absence from either list given the amount of effort Zant put into defending and coaching him early on.

I think it's pretty unlikely there wouldn't be at least 1 scum in your townleans Zantetsu. Which leads to my next point, you give townreads away too easily. That still doesn't mean i believe you are likely to be mafia yourself. I just don't agree with you.

Just looking at the profii wagon.

I think you and Luca are town because all your reasoning was good on the way to getting profii to L-2. He was acting super scummy once the wagon was on him, he was putting out every contradictory reason possible to save himself, but then when he started making better posts, you guys backed down in a way that seems very "appropriately cautious". profii didn't claim a power role which would have been the logical thing for scum!profii to do if he really thought his lynch was imminent. He didn't even double check his vote count and notice that he wasn't really at L-1. All of this adds up to a town lean on all three players for me.

egix hasn't posted a lot but I have liked his through process in the posts he has made. He got on the profii wagon at a time that I thought it made sense. And all of his subsequent posts I just liked. But the amount of content there is not enough for me to feel as confident as I do about the others in my town list.

UnaBombaH I have a theory about. Maybe my theory is wrong. But he has said things. I can point them out but really they are there for anyone re-reading his ISO to see.

Anotora I am weakly scum reading most because it is so hard for me to believe that They really believed Saudade's mason claim, then believed profii's fake counter-claim. That seems disingenuous. Also the fact that They so transparently followed Luca and Norwegian onto and off of the profii wagon. And finally, the casting shade so heavily at me - claiming I was rolefishing, but then not even caring that Battle Mage fished a claim out of profii when profii was not even L-1. But Anotora also has a very low post count and low content production so this is admittedly a pretty weak read.

Battle Mage it just feels inconsistent to me that he'd put as much effort into reading and forming theories and then not even vote count well enough to see that profii really was at L-2. Also I can't shake the feeling that Battle Mage is playing scum like I played it the first few times - just really try-hard and casting shade everywhere. And all those smileys ...

And Churros I didn't like how he immediately town read Norwegian for almost no reason. But this is just gut feel and he hasn't posted hardly anything so super weak read here.

This is pretty bad - gives reads on everyone on Proffi wagon... except Riabi for some reason.

If there’s a vig you’re the ideal target anyway given your claim.

I’m actually wondering if Profii/Una is s/s after all. Such weird interactions.

Early game Luca irked me

Right now I'm just nodding my head vigorously

I recommend to include Riabi on the list as well, his Saudade read isn't consistent, it kinda fluctuates from "must lynch" to "I want him to talk" with no reason.

It's not actually inconsistent. I think he's anti-town, and that's enough reason in my book to lynch someone early, regardless of alignment. That said, that doesn't mean I won't also vote to lynch someone I find worse/more scummy.

Riabi you've been popping in with very noncommittal statements all game.

You need to post a reads list and give some real original thoughts for your reads.

Some more coaching. It's almost cute...

[Battle Mage]

Anyone want to fill me in or do I really have to read all 58 pages?

-bitmap

The main things to note are the final scum is either you or Riabi. Looker is confirmed town.

Why is Looker confirmed town?

Eve confirmed he was vanilla, and scum have a roleblocker.

[Battle Mage]

Anyone want to fill me in or do I really have to read all 58 pages?

-bitmap

The main things to note are the final scum is either you or Riabi. Looker is confirmed town.

Or you? I don't remember you being confirmed anywhere.

Also, re: your case against me, maybe look up "buddying" in the wiki? Zan seems to have gotten you pretty hard with that.

Firstly, I know I'm town so I'm not going to list myself as a suspect.

Secondly, I reckon I'm less confirmed town than Luca and Looker, but more confirmed town than you and Bitmap. In hindsight, I'd be a lot more confirmed town now if I hadn't claimed and could have had more than 1 hit, but we are where we are!

Although I can see your game here, as you're trying to line up multiple suspects as it probably isn't LyLo today, and if you've been blocking me it leaves me vulnerable to being discredited.

[Battle Mage]

i think Battle Mage is scum and checking Churros instead of anyone useful is really scummy - especially given how much Churros and i kinda made it obvious there was something going in there yesterday

VOTE: Battle Mage

This is good enough for me.

VOTE: Battle Mage

That was from the start of the previous dayphase. You didn't give it a moment's thought then, so why now? Other than the convenience of an excuse to vote for me. Nor does it give a justification for voting for me (it's an example of why we wrongly lynched Eve yesterday).

Did anyone get a message from Eve last night?

I didn't.

Do you mean night before last? As in, the night before she was lynched? Looker claimed to have been brought into a neighborhood and Eve confirmed that she brought him in that night.

I didn't get a message from Egix/Okapoka either.

[Battle Mage]

VOTE: Battle Mage

1) Why would the neighbor die when Looker got mech cleared according to you? There's far more incentive to kill the mechanical clear.
2) You lied about the cop role b/c it was a safe hedge in a game full of neighbors.
3) You're trying to line up lynches since yesterday and Riabi was correct about you.

someone came out the blocks firing eh?

1. I can't believe you're using your kill choice as a reason to vote for me. It's WIFOM but come on dude...
2. I claimed after Luca and 72, but before the other 2 neighbour type roles were revealed. The existence of the neighbouriser gives a bit more credence to my role - Churros (who knows a thing or 2 about setup mechanics) recognised this at the time. It hasn't been hugely valuable as I've been role-blocked ever since I claimed, and most people had claimed by then anyway, but it did allow us to nail 1 scum.
3. Well I didn't really expect the game to still be going, or to still be alive! I suppose the only reason I can think of is my reads late-on have not been great, and without me there's nobody to block.

But as Looker is confirmed town, it's pretty obvious who I'm voting today.

Vote: Bitmap

[Battle Mage]

I'm going to vote Battle Mage solely for not using voting tags

The sad thing is, that still wouldn't be our worst defeat in the past week.

[Battle Mage]

VOTE: Looker

How is it opportunistic when I've been campaigning for Anotora for forever? Either way...

...no, you.

VOTE REDACTED

• @BM: What did the Mod say?
  • Also, who did you target?

VOTE: Bitmap What do you make of all this?

Ah I didn't ask! I'll ask now...

Did you get an answer?

VOTE: Battle Mage

1) Why would the neighbor die when Looker got mech cleared according to you? There's far more incentive to kill the mechanical clear.
2) You lied about the cop role b/c it was a safe hedge in a game full of neighbors.
3) You're trying to line up lynches since yesterday and Riabi was correct about you.

Man...if Norway had just put in a little more effort into this game...

Yep I got an answer - Mod said I would get a positive result if I hit someone in a PT by themselves.

I think Norweg played well...I had him as scum Day 1, but didn't see him as a partner for Zant at all after that.

[Battle Mage]

I'm going to vote Battle Mage solely for not using voting tags

The sad thing is, that still wouldn't be our worst defeat in the past week.

Fair. Fuck you.

Answer Bitmap's question lol

I can't answer his question really - I can only point to what's happened in the game! In the context of the roles we've had in this game, a roleblocker who can block and kill in the same night doesn't shock me.

What would shock me slightly more is the idea that I fake-claimed cop to bus my own partner for no reason on Day 2(?) and then get no further results or value for the entire game. Without being properly confirmed, and with no idea if I'd get counter-claimed or anything.

[Battle Mage]

And let me add more burn to this game.

@Mod:

Are scum able to multitask if they have a PR?

This is one of the maddest strategies I've ever seen! We can wait this out then!

[Battle Mage]

Because claiming cop always pays out for scum especially when the doc is out of the game.

Here's the harsh reality, in normal games, it's safe to assume that everyone can only do one action at a time and based on setup spec, I really doubt there's a multitasking mafia roleblocker in this game.

We can just let the Mod confirm.

But with 6 town PRs (inc. neighbours), and so far only 1 goon and 1 scum neighbour, a scum who can kill and roleblock seems pretty necessary for balance.

[Battle Mage]

Okay. Time for me to go home.

VOTE: Bitmap

I'm biased by how much I despise Battle Mage and may have overcorrected.

Sorry man, I VOTE: Love you though. See - votetags!

[Battle Mage]

Haha I'm not sticking around for salty. It was a fun game, I really enjoyed it.