Mini Normal 2173 | Bending | Game Over
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Marky Mark Mafia Scum
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Good morning all, this ought to be a good laugh.
I am assuming the whole daycop thing is am in-joke, but if this is actually a legit thing then please tell me
For the time being...
VOTE: NDMath
<insert hilarious quip here about the moral and grammatical superiority of British English 'maths' to the Americanism of 'math'>-
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Marky Mark Mafia Scum
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Finding it quite hard to pick through the in-jokes and chumminess (not a bad thing or anything - I'm glad everyone is having a good time ) to work out what is actually meant seriously atm
Presuming this is RVS, but feels a little thin for mid-page 3
This also feels like a bit of a cuff off to avoid the topic at a more meaningful levelIn post 105, geraintm wrote:
Why? Are you jealous of my addition abilities?In post 73, Andresvmb wrote:In post 36, NDMath wrote:VOTE: shelleyc
<'Englishes'. Math is sometimes considered a language, and one doesn't pluralize languages.>In post 33, Marky Mark wrote:VOTE: NDMath
<insert hilarious quip here about the moral and grammatical superiority of British English 'maths' to the Americanism of 'math'>
Probably. 7*7-7=42In post 35, JacksonVirgo wrote:
Is this a soft?In post 34, geraintm wrote:Hello all. I can do maths. 2+1+7+3=13
I would eliminate this slot if all I had was the information we have right now.In post 34, geraintm wrote:Hello all. I can do maths. 2+1+7+3=13
VOTE: GeraintM feels like a reasonable direction to go in
Off to bed now and on longish shifts Sat and Sun so won't be super active. Will try to stay afloat and then contribute more during the week-
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Marky Mark Mafia Scum
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Thank you mod for the birthday wishes, it is my honour to spend the dying minutes of it catching up with all of you and this game.
So after trying to catch up with everything and filter out all the meta discussion for games I haven't played in, Geraint hasn't given me any reason to stop voting him - I can understand the busyness on his part and hopefully we will get a chance to hear his take on things soon.
I don't think this logic really works and I think you're reading way too much into this. I do think that dk seems to be going pretty strong on shelly on earlier pages based on her posts inIn post 226, Andresvmb wrote:Alright I’m just going to put this out there. @Koba I’m not getting Townyvibes from you. I really didn’t like your attempt at a derp clear with the Scum not having Day Talk. In fact, anybody who made a direct reference to that should be under some suspicion (I don’t really have a read on VPB but I also noticed a reference there from him). Until it was highlighted, I didn’t even check whether this was the case. Yes, I initially assumed that Scum could speak privately during the day. But the Scum are far more likely to have wanted to communicate and strategize early, only to realize that they couldn’t (as included in the rules). So anybody who realized this probably felt it would be something they could use to clear themselves by making a point out of it. Paranoid? Perhaps. But something to think about.thisgame - I'll leave the meta assessments for people who know her better - but the angle andres takes over the whole daytalk thing seems fairly contrived.
TBQH I've skim-read the thread today after a long day at work but will go through people's ISOs etc more methodically when time allows - probs my day off on Monday. I did, however, enjoy the runescape meme. Have a good night all-
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Marky Mark Mafia Scum
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Afternoon all, got off work early
Ref people asking why Geraint wagon is a thing:In post 254, shellyc wrote:sup whats the gerain wagon all about
catching up now
btw the andres SR was kinda a meme so UNVOTE: AndresIn post 331, shellyc wrote:oh wait i misunderstood that
you're telling me to stop saving gerain
gerain's iso is basically the same as all the other lurker isos, i completely don't get this cw at all
confidence in scumflip when we're 48 hours into d1 cant plausibly come from town imo
I'm not gonna speak for others who find him scummy (still have not seen a justification from VP for his vote and would like to see one) but its the following from me:In post 346, geraintm wrote:
I am amused that people find my method of generating a random vote, which i have done in many previous games including games which people in this have been in, has caused such a fuss.In post 256, shellyc wrote:the gerain wagon seems to be of someone whos low activity + made a weird maths thingy in rvs
don't get how that is scummy at all
this is a trash cw
I vote whomever posts that many number posts after mine
The jokey brush-off of the suspicion rather than engaging more meaningfully is a classic deflection move. Furthermore, have not had anything meaningful from the slot since in terms of content/analysis/reads so that's why my vote went there and is still very happily there.In post 105, geraintm wrote:
Why? Are you jealous of my addition abilities?In post 73, Andresvmb wrote:In post 36, NDMath wrote:VOTE: shelleyc
<'Englishes'. Math is sometimes considered a language, and one doesn't pluralize languages.>In post 33, Marky Mark wrote:VOTE: NDMath
<insert hilarious quip here about the moral and grammatical superiority of British English 'maths' to the Americanism of 'math'>
Probably. 7*7-7=42In post 35, JacksonVirgo wrote:
Is this a soft?In post 34, geraintm wrote:Hello all. I can do maths. 2+1+7+3=13
I would eliminate this slot if all I had was the information we have right now.In post 34, geraintm wrote:Hello all. I can do maths. 2+1+7+3=13
In other news...
I'm not sure what DK's posting frequency has been like in other games - there's a decent amount of proactivity in there but also a lot of fluff. Scum me is all about stacking the post count high to make it more of a faff for the town to pick up the important stuff, so I could totally see someone pulling this as a scum move.
I don't think you ever did explain this - yes, you've mentioned the "scumclaim" in #296 but that was way after this post so clearly not the original reason for the post.In post 248, DkKoba wrote:VOTE: jackson ill explain in a bit when i can type it up. I believe i hinted at this move earlier but i was hoping to see more info before i transitioned over
Of what we've had so far, Infinity sticks out as a TR for generally solid analysis in their posts.
Stating the obvious, but excited to see what our replacement's take on all of this is and hopefully hear more from TayTay and Maths too I appreciate how rich this is coming from me with my equally low levels of activity-
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Marky Mark Mafia Scum
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Which particular part of the above do you feel is being misrepped?
Also interesting format of response - if I was factually incorrect in what I was saying about you surely the more straightforward thing to do would be to disprove/correct me rather than just throw words like misrep my way and see what sticks?-
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Marky Mark Mafia Scum
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You were saying that I was misrepping you without giving explaining how. You still haven't explained what I've actually said that you think is a misrep - I'd like to know please as currently you are just throwing unsubstantiated shade .In post 365, DkKoba wrote:
What are you on about? U said something untrue idc if u wanna believe it or not its on u if you trust me lmao??In post 350, Marky Mark wrote:Which particular part of the above do you feel is being misrepped?
Also interesting format of response - if I was factually incorrect in what I was saying about you surely the more straightforward thing to do would be to disprove/correct me rather than just throw words like misrep my way and see what sticks?
I just find all of this a bit odd because if it was the other way around and you were saying that I said XYZ and I hadn't, then my default reaction would be to just correct you rather than making some opaque statement.-
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Marky Mark Mafia Scum
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And still you deflect. I'm not sure if you're doing this to get a reaction out of me!? I've highlighted a couple of things you've done and rn it kinda feels like you're trying to soft undermine/discredit me over them without actually making a coherent argument for what I've said that you disagree with :SDkKoba wrote:lol ok my guy whatever floats your boat
im high as shit rn and dont care-
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Marky Mark Mafia Scum
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Andres was saying that you were the best option to vote for off the info we had so far - my initial reactions to this would be to a.) ask them why they were scumreading me or b.) point out some other meaningful thing that was clearly more AI at that point of the game to discredit his point that your opening post was the scummiest thing that had happened so far. Either way, if someone was trying to paint me as scum I would want to dig into it and try to expose their reasons to see if it was scum flinging mud.In post 461, geraintm wrote: not sure how yo expect me to react?
my original post creating my random number to generate my random vote was clearly a joke ("I can do maths")
so replying in a joking fashion was entirely in character and consistent
This is definitely a subjective point, but the brush off felt like scum trying to avoid getting engaged in discussion - which also chimes with the low amount of content from your slot.
I can understand being busy, looking forward to hearing some more from you once you get the chance.
As a mild aside, I've been finding this game fairly heavy going due to the sheer quantity of fluff compared to the previous games I've played (which have tended to be newer players). My heart sank that little bit further when I saw Not_Mafia's intro.-
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Marky Mark Mafia Scum
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So, there's a lot of noise and in-jokes to wade through but here's what has stuck out to me thus far:In post 492, Infinity 324 wrote:Mark, reads on anyone other than gerain?
I'm finding DGB somewhat scummy - their ISO is a bunch of "XYZ is town/scum" posts with no further explanation or analysis. They've not actually done anything to further the game in that sense or generate meaningful discussion.
Also feels fairly chummy and knowing - could genuinely be cocksure town but is also a great scum post to subtly make people perceive them as townIn post 356, DrippingGoofball wrote:
Nah, trust me, if they feel like they have a weak partner, they are going to help us yeet it.In post 326, VP Baltar wrote:Bad thing about no daytalk is that scum are just gonna spaghetti all over themselves trying to stop their buddies from eating a yeet.
Shelly, if you're town, I'd prolly stop trying to save geraintm bc it's going to look bad when he flips red
I found DK accusing me of misrepping her and then brushing me off x3 a bit scummy too - this will probs sound OMGUSy but I don't see why town!dk would try to make someone look scummy and then not provide an explanation when directly asked three times.
There's also been a few slots that have been pretty quiet in terms of meaningful content, as I have alluded too before. I'm voting geraint, because I genuinely felt the brush-off was scummy, but I also more generally don't want to give anyone (including him) a free ride to day two without at least contributing stuff that we can use to get some sort of read on them tomorrow retrospectively in the light of flips etc.-
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Marky Mark Mafia Scum
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Hey DK
I have never played with you before - hence my point earlier about not knowing if your high posting frequency was AI or just how you roll.
Ref town!you, I was referring to how you would hypothetically act as town in a general sense, rather than your specific town persona/tone. Ie, I think most town-aligned players would if asked to give an explanation for something they have said, be happy to do this. When making claims about another player, it seems in the town's interests to provide an explanation for those if requested, so that the other players can make an informed judgment about whether that claim is reasonable.
"I don't see whytown!dkdk, if town aligned,would try to make someone look scummy and then not provide an explanation when directly asked three times." might be a more accurate phrasing.
Hope that makes sense?
Ref shelly, no strong reads. As I've mentioned in an earlier post, I noticed the early scumreads on her and thought these seemed inflated, but the basis of these was fairly meta-related, which is not something that I am qualified to wade into as I have no recollection of playing with her before.-
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Marky Mark Mafia Scum
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The only reads explained in further posts were the dk/andres ones, and that was because DGB was specificallyIn post 515, shellyc wrote:TS, is infinity scum JUST because they have differing opinions than you? It's quite often that town have differing opinions and I don't get that in itself is enough to SR people?
@Mark why do you think naked "XYZ is scum/town" isn't furthering the game - they're opinions. Furthermore, some of the reads have actually been explained in further postsaskedto explain them.
Ref opinions - there's some conceptual overlap here with what I was talking about ref dk - voicing your opinion about how you perceive someone is inherently of more value to the rest of the town if you explain your reasoning so that they can evaluate this for themselves. It's also a good way to generate a discussion. It allows the rest of us to develop our reads on both the person making the assertion and the person who is the target of the assertion. No real downsides that I can see from a town POV of taking the time to justify reads/assertions-
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Marky Mark Mafia Scum
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Thanks. Thoughts on the game so far?In post 513, Not_Mafia wrote:I'm town btw-
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Marky Mark Mafia Scum
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Good evening all
Tbqh I didn't really have any strong reads either way on the slot prior to the last few pages. I do think that him calling out dk over discrediting and hypocrisy is valid/helpful and chimes with my own earlier posts ref dk. I thought him calling out VP earlier in 275 was fairly valid.In post 519, shellyc wrote:Marky what are your thoughts on the Jackson slot so far
Speaking of dk....
Claiming someone is misrepping you with 0 explanation of why they are is not stating factual information. This is so patently obvious that I can only assume you are reaction fishing or deflecting.In post 521, DkKoba wrote:mark frankly
I dont care.
If u have anything substantial to ask me feel free but when im stating factual information i dont care to accept the premise that im wrong thx
Stuff like this (I picked this one, but there were plenty to pick from) is really quite abrasive, especially when it is cmpletely devoid of any evidence or reasoning. Let's respect each other pleaseIn post 556, DkKoba wrote:
holy fuck because clearly ur intentions were to not get scumread for fakeclaiming lmfaoIn post 549, JacksonVirgo wrote:Also they still haven't said shit about why I was scummy about the reaction test when they said they had a whole heckin' case on me
i have a feelign ur just bad town because ur takes are just so astronomically bad i feel like as scum being informed u would never actually say things these bad.
Here's what is on my mind atm:
-DK is not acting in the town's interests eg deflecting direct questions from other players, discrediting other players with completely unsubstantiated accusations. I think part of this is playstyle, but not all of it.
-Geraint's logic ref d1 being pointless is evidently not true, as has been pointed out by others but I'm finding it hard to get a feel for his slot more generally. Despite not being a fan of meta, I've had a look at a couple of his other games where he's acted similar to this game as both alignments. This is starting to make me start to question my scumread on him. I am also not loving DGB being on his wagon (see below)
-We have a decent number of lurky players in this game - while some may well be scum, it seems unlikely they all are (stating the obvious here I know). Of this subgroup, having revised my read on Geraint, I think DGB is probs the scummiest imo, for reasons I've gone over before. As I've said before, I don't want to give people a free ride to d2 without being an active participant today.
For the time being I think VOTE: DGB is the best option. This is primarily intended as a vote based on the fact I find the slot scummy but will also hopefully as an incentive for them to engage more. While there has been a fair bit of fluff in this game, I think 553 is an oversimplification - there is enough going on to be able to pick things out worthy of discussion.
Fwiw, I also want toFOS DK. This has kinda been covered above, but the way she is playing is too far from the town's interests, even given her posting style.-
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Marky Mark Mafia Scum
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Avoiding/deflecting questions aimed at getting you to explain your reasoning is not in the town's interests as it prevents other players from understanding where your reasoning was coming from and deciding for themselves whether it was reasonable. What legitimate motives could a town player have to deflect a reasonable question about their reasons for making a particular claim/accusation?In post 632, DkKoba wrote:how is it far from town interests? do u know what words mean?
Not familiar with LHF as an acronym sorry?DkKoba wrote:ur literally pushing someone whos LHF(scum or not) and ur trying to talk to me about going against "town interest".
what is ur point?
ur fosing ppl for activity levels and yet ur avoiding zdenek?
once again i am being held to higher standards than everyone else bc apparently i have to explain literally everything and everyone else gets a free pass!!!!!!! sick of it!!!
Again, I feel like you are being deliberately false here. I've explained why I find you scummy and have FOsed you and it's pretty far removed from zdenek. If zdenek refuses to answer a direct question 4x in a row while simultaneously undermining/discrediting people in a completely unsubstantiated way then I may consider laying an FOS on him too.
This isn't personal and I can see you feel frustrated over this :S - I don't think expecting people to explain their accusations when asked repeatedly is a massively high bar to hold people to.
That question is clearly asked in bad faith - I've made it pretty clear it was a serious FOS.DkKoba wrote:mark be real with me do u actually fos me bc thats hilarious if u do for the reasons u listed like ur trying to twist that me being annoyed at being blatantly misrepped is scummy.
can there be 4 scum in a mini?
If me allegedly misrepping you was that blatant, then you could've just explained it one of the many times you were prompted
Would love it if you could watch the tone of your posts too please - I can see you disagree with me and are frustrated but there's no need to be so abrasive - we're here playing a game
ZDenek - what's an 86?-
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Marky Mark Mafia Scum
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Marky Mark Mafia Scum
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I refute your point that I haven't been being concise - the question is simply this (and always has been): In what manner do you think I'm misrepping you?In post 647, DkKoba wrote:ok maybe consider what ur asking is nonsense and u should move on? Bc clearly im not gonna elaborate unless u make a more concise question that i havent answered bc i feel ive answered it efficiently with my actions already.
I'm genuinely sorry to hear you are stressed. I'm not in the habit of picking fights for the sake of things, but I hope you can understand why I would continue to push a point until I get a straight answer if you keep on deflecting me. Ref "the more u push it the less i feel ur town" in particular, why are you telling me this directly, other than to try to get me to back off by threatening to scumread me if I don't?In post 648, DkKoba wrote:honestly im stressed a lot irl and not in the mood for this kinda dumb fight over semantics so drop it unless u have a point bc the more u push it the less i feel ur town
I'm heading to bed, but happy to pick up any points people want to throw my way tomorrow. Goodnight all, and thankyou for the pleasure of your company-
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Marky Mark Mafia Scum
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Morning all, quick phone post before I rush off to work - more this evening.
DK explaining what misrep means != explaining what I said that she believes to be a misrep. I've pursued this fairly doggedly, because I'm not a fan of people just flinging stuff to see what sticks without having to justify themselves, but I realise I am in danger of missing stuff in the wider game by trying to chase down dkisms at this point.
I can see why the wagon on math is a thing. It's true that they are coasting a bit and that they are the type of player likely to respond to pressure, but there's deffo scummier and lurkier players out there imo. I don't think math will win any awards for scumhunting (sorry!) but there has at least been some deeper scrutiny in their posts eg them picking up on infinity changing their reasons for voting BP.
Thanks Taylor for your post encouraging common decency - let's do right by each other
Cross posted with geraint but probs ought to go do some work so will mull over what he's just said-
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Marky Mark Mafia Scum
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Yes.In post 745, shellyc wrote:
wait mark do you SR koba or just dislike their playstyleIn post 744, Marky Mark wrote:DK explaining what misrep means != explaining what I said that she believes to be a misrep. I've pursued this fairly doggedly, because I'm not a fan of people just flinging stuff to see what sticks without having to justify themselves, but I realise I am in danger of missing stuff in the wider game by trying to chase down dkisms at this point.
To explain that in slightly more detail:
-I thinkpartof her deflection/evasion of scrutiny and discrediting of others is potentially playstyle, but I think the extent to which she is taking it is scummy, along with some other tells, such as threatening to scumread me if I didn't back off her.
-I find some of her posts quite abrasive as many are quite personal/emotive, but I am not scumreading/FOSing her for that reason.
I hope I've been fairly clear that I find them scummy and FOSed them in 631. I can only vote for one person at a time and at this stage, I think the DGB vote achieves more (there's certainly no shortage of posts from dk).In post 747, VP Baltar wrote:
Also, co-sign this. Vote or shut up about Koba's play style.In post 745, shellyc wrote:
wait mark do you SR koba or just dislike their playstyleIn post 744, Marky Mark wrote:DK explaining what misrep means != explaining what I said that she believes to be a misrep. I've pursued this fairly doggedly, because I'm not a fan of people just flinging stuff to see what sticks without having to justify themselves, but I realise I am in danger of missing stuff in the wider game by trying to chase down dkisms at this point.-
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This is valid - not the wagon I'd have chosen but Math is certainly not a townread right now (I would sort him as nullish) and it's already served a purpose of generating some discussion/disagreement.In post 746, VP Baltar wrote:There is certainly scum in the pool of people demanding wagon LOGIC, regardless of Math's alignment.
D1 is stagnating and a flash wagon was definitely called for. People crying it's not a wall case are not convincing.
Infinity, what's your take on Taylor's reaction here?-
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Have you only experienced playing with him from D2 onwards (eg via replacement)?In post 650, VP Baltar wrote:Like, I want andres to be town here, but I'm not seeing as much fire in the belly as I might expect. I don't know what his D1 play is usually like though.-
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Why? Any reads on the other players?In post 751, Not_Mafia wrote:I think DKKoba is scum-
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@VP - fair enough that makes sense. I shall look forward to the fireworks from him later on then
I've not seen anything from andres that is giving me major cause for suspicion, although I would find it useful to understand why he finds zdenek scummy in particular rather than any of the other low-activity slots.-
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So in 348 I raised a couple of observations: the one you have mentioned ref generating high volumes of fluff and also the fact that she voted jackson while promising to follow up with an explanation, but that explanation never came.In post 803, Andresvmb wrote:I think Mark is way over focused on how Koba brushed him off. And I can’t say that I TR that.
@Marky Mark, can you maybe defend your original point a bit more? As in what posts from Koba specifically make you think that Koba is trying to overpost to “hide the important things”? And have you considered that another player might not approach Scum the way you do?
When dk claimed I was misrepping her it wasn't clear which of the above two points she was referring to, or even how it misrepped her, as they were both observations. I was keen to understand this. This could've been answered in a sentence, so when she decided to deflect the matter it seemed worth pursuing as it was interesting in itself that she had decided not to answer what seemed like a very straightforward question.
As a side note, I am not suggesting all or even any scum play the same way as I do (and if they did they probs wouldn't get very far as my scum game is pretty lacking ). I thought it was a useful observation to point out the behavior though, as it might not have been an angle that others had considered. Posting high volumes of fluff is rarely in the town's interests IMO as it makes it more difficult to grasp the important stuff, but that doesn't mean anyone who does it is auto-scum. Correlation but not necessarily causation.-
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Some people were SRing math since his first reads post, iirc shelly called it out as consensusy but others were certianly also SRing the slot. As I've said before, wouldn't be my first choice for a wagon but I think the reasons people were SRing him had been fairly well articulated by the time the wagon formed.In post 808, Andresvmb wrote: Maybe I should have phrased it better - pressure can definitely catch Scum. It’s just that there was no buildup to it when it happened. So unless Math creates a hole for themselves, you end up in a situation where others don’t join because the explanation just isn’t there.-
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Cross-posted with you, yeah I raised the point as I was kinda expecting a more thorough explanation (or at least that was how I understood her post when I read it) and I then wasn't sure if this was what she thought I was misrepping her over. At any rate, the key thing from that interaction was not the initial point but the fact she then went to far greater lengths to deflect then to provide a simple answer to the question.In post 812, Andresvmb wrote: @Marky Mark but Koba did say that they thought that Jackson’s retraction of their test was off yeah? I mean I caught it, and I agree. So they might not have provided tremendous detail, but they did explain it. I’ll give you some background - Koba is not the type of player from my experience that will spend a great deal of time putting everything down. And that’s a play style thing. I understand why some players look for detailed explanations. As you can already tell, I tend to provide them. But not everybody plays like that and it doesn’t mean the play is less effective.-
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@Andres Idk - I think it's worth being fairly dogmatic sometimes if someone is going to great lengths to avoid giving a straight answer to a question. At the expense of repeating myself, it felt like a reach and I wanted to get to the bottom of it. It led to some interesting responses including the "if you keep pushing me, I'll SR you" (I'm paraphrasing here) threat, which strengthened my SR on her.
Obviously it's a balancing act and what I see as being dogmatic, others might see as tunneling or getting bogged down. There's definitely a balance to be had and that was why I started to look into other stuff very recently when it became clear I was not going to get any further with it-
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I get it, but due to the inherent nature of why people were SRing him, eg being consenus-y and lurky, I can't see people being able to write tonnes on stuff on why he's been scummy. It's one of those slots that you pressure to try to get a response out of and use that to make a more meaningful read.In post 816, Andresvmb wrote:
I do recall there being multiple people that were asking for paragraphs to try and understand why Math was being SR. And as Math actually correctly pointed out, shellyc was SR’ing Math for something they did as Town as well. I would have liked to see folks putting votes down perhaps reinforcing their reasoning a bit. That would have created some real pressure. Semi-naked votes all bunched up don’t tend to have the same effect I feel.In post 813, Marky Mark wrote:
Some people were SRing math since his first reads post, iirc shelly called it out as consensusy but others were certianly also SRing the slot. As I've said before, wouldn't be my first choice for a wagon but I think the reasons people were SRing him had been fairly well articulated by the time the wagon formed.In post 808, Andresvmb wrote: Maybe I should have phrased it better - pressure can definitely catch Scum. It’s just that there was no buildup to it when it happened. So unless Math creates a hole for themselves, you end up in a situation where others don’t join because the explanation just isn’t there.-
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I get it, but due to the inherent nature of why people were SRing him, eg being consenus-y and lurky, I can't see people being able to write tonnes on stuff on why he's been scummy. It's one of those slots that you pressure to try to get a response out of and use that to make a more meaningful read.In post 816, Andresvmb wrote:
I do recall there being multiple people that were asking for paragraphs to try and understand why Math was being SR. And as Math actually correctly pointed out, shellyc was SR’ing Math for something they did as Town as well. I would have liked to see folks putting votes down perhaps reinforcing their reasoning a bit. That would have created some real pressure. Semi-naked votes all bunched up don’t tend to have the same effect I feel.In post 813, Marky Mark wrote:
Some people were SRing math since his first reads post, iirc shelly called it out as consensusy but others were certianly also SRing the slot. As I've said before, wouldn't be my first choice for a wagon but I think the reasons people were SRing him had been fairly well articulated by the time the wagon formed.In post 808, Andresvmb wrote: Maybe I should have phrased it better - pressure can definitely catch Scum. It’s just that there was no buildup to it when it happened. So unless Math creates a hole for themselves, you end up in a situation where others don’t join because the explanation just isn’t there.-
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Good evening all and Happy Birthday JV!
Welcome Gamma Emerald, thank you for stepping in to keep the game going
831 from DGB is much appreciated and looks like there is plenty there to unpack - I've had a brief look over it for now and will look through the links more thoroughly at the weekend when I have time.
The point Andres makes in 845 ref the large pool of hard to read players is on the money -> to me, finishing D1 in a good place includes having more engagement from that pool so that we are able to make a more informed read on those slots going into D2.
The interaction between Geraint | Not_mafia is noteworthy here, as is other players' views towards the pair of them:
I'm not sure how self-aware this post is (it may be deliberately ironic), but Geraint is basically also describing himself here.In post 856, geraintm wrote: I've not played with SCum Not Mafia. I have a hige fear the game they are scum, their playstyle will just let them coast through the game for ages and ages
Why? Having looked at a couple of his previous games, I certainly don't find him as scummy as I initially did as I can see the lack of engagement in D1 is in character, but I don't see anything in his posts that marks him as town.In post 873, Not_Mafia wrote:Geraint is locktown
@DGB - what differentiates Not_Mafia (top of your townreads) from Geraint (in your scumreads)? Other players' reads have varied for those two, but those that I have been able to find tend to have read both of them as being in a similar place in terms of alignment. IMO they are both in a similar place of engaging with the game in a very limited manner and being very blatant about it although Not_Mafia takes this further.-
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I'm all for reducing the amount of guesswork in the game and would favour an elim on a less active/engaged slot over a more active one if all other things were even in terms of scuminess.In post 882, VP Baltar wrote:
I'm not opposed to yeeting them because I really don't like condoning shit behaviorIn post 878, DkKoba wrote:not mafia isnt actually playing the game they just purposefully post the bare minimum to annoy ppl and yet we still allow them to play like this (((:
That being said, we have over a week of time left in D1 should we need it so we don't need to be overly worrying about this at this point (I'm not saying you necessarily are )-
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Relevant to the above ref hard-to-read players - I would've thought using PRs (vig especially) would be more effective on scummier but more active slots rather than high variance slots. Idk if there's an accepted meta on this though.In post 534, VP Baltar wrote:
So how does someone read this slot? I mean I guess we can wait a day for a cop or a vig. But that's annoyingIn post 526, Infinity 324 wrote:Generally no-
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Hey all, hope everyone's well
So I've had a longish day at work and have now checked the page to find another 10 pages have sprung up
Tbqh this game has been a massive step up in terms of post count/frequency from the games I've played before and I'm struggling to stay afloat during the week due to work etc. I'll have a thorough look at the game tomorrow and try to get my head around the new developments.-
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Hello all
So I've caught up to the present, I'll drop my immediate take on what's gone down over the last 10 pages and will then leaf over things a bit more slowly over the course of the weekend.
Pages ~35-40 is a lot of reminiscing and fairly thin on actual game stuff, and I totally get that, as I'm sure for many of you here that is a big part of the appeal of playing, but it does make it harder to pick through the game and find the important stuff.
Welcome to FL and thanks for replacing in.
DGB posts of note
DGB has made it clear she doesn't believe in meta, so I find her TRing N_M on the basis of being soulmasons (ie relationship outside of the immediate game) a bit off.In post 894, DrippingGoofball wrote:
I'm soulmason with Not_Mafia.In post 884, Marky Mark wrote:@DGB - what differentiates Not_Mafia (top of your townreads) from Geraint (in your scumreads)? Other players' reads have varied for those two, but those that I have been able to find tend to have read both of them as being in a similar place in terms of alignment. IMO they are both in a similar place of engaging with the game in a very limited manner and being very blatant about it although Not_Mafia takes this further.
Geraint is a one-note whining machine moping about playing the game he signed up for, it's all excuses. Just lazy scum AtE.
I can the nonchalance about being lynched coming from a place of scum trying to look town. Obviously subjective thoIn post 1162, DrippingGoofball wrote:Ok you guys can just eliminate me straight up day 1, I hope that'll shut you all up forever about neta
That Gamma vote on N_M
I think Gamma parking their vote on N_M as an initial act was fine. It served a purpose (pressure on an inactive and hard to read player) and N_M was not remotely close to being hammered. As a result, 899 from DK and 906 from Taylor look opportunistic where they call it out as scummy/bad.
Further to the above, DK claims in 909 that she is on the lookout for people trying to push LHF...
... but she herself voted Geraint a couple of pages earlier, which is a wagon based on very similar principles (ie pressuring an inactive & hard to read player)In post 909, DkKoba wrote:Im always on the lookout for whoever is trying to push LHFAdditionally, VP made it clear in 882 that he was not against a N_M. DK did not comment on this, but then called out the Gamma Emerald vote, which shares a similar sentiment.
I'd be keen to hear from DK and/or Taylor why they felt a vote on N_M was bad in the circumstances. Taylor has also spoken out against a geraint vote, so she is at least consistent in her attitude towards low activity/engagement players, but would love to know why DK felt that voting Geraint was ok, but Gamma voting N_M wasn't.-
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Some other thoughts
-1034 by Taylor asking what vote # the JV wagon was on feels like scum trying to look town (JV was nowhere near hammer so I'm not convinced she was legitimately worried that her vote could put him dangerously close)
-1094 where FL claims to be a 2-Shot doc -> I'm presuming you aren't actually claiming here but that it's some sort of in-joke?
-That page where JV talked us through his mental state inc his relationship with death-tunnels felt town, as many others have already said.
-I feel like FL is reading way too much into the fake informed claim, but NAI
Zdenek's contribution and others' reaction to it
This is not a remotely new argument, which makes me question DKs assertion in 1157 that his tone comes off as independent, especially when it was an argument that DK herself made earlier:In post 1151, Zdenek wrote:Around page 28, I think that Taylor is scum telling us Math is town.
DGB also TRing the slot after that post doesn't fill me with confidence, but that bit is a bit more circumstantialIn post 697, DkKoba wrote:weird bc ur sudden defense of math gives me scum vibes from you instead-
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In terms of where my reads are at RN having caught up to the present:
Towny:
Andres
Gamma
Weak town:
JV
Infinity, to a lesser extent. He is nullish for me in terms of alignment, but he is clearly trying to facilitate the game state progressing.
True null, ie active/engaged but I don't have a strong read on them either way (ie I really ought to look at these slots more thoroughly as not a great deal from them has stuck out to me):
VP
Taylor
FL/Math
Null due to inactivity/not enough to form a read from
N_M
Geraint (somewhat scummier than N_M, but I have realized from looking at his other games that his behaviour is consistent with how he behaves as both alignments elsewhere).
Scummy:
DK
DGB (scummier, but with less certainty as there's less to go off for her).
Zdenek I am finding hard to place in the above, he shares some similarities with DGB in that he lurking in plain sight and not a N_M/Geraint style lurker. Tbqh, I am very wary of people coasting through and forcing us to guess their alignment later on off a limited pool of info, which makes me wary of the lurker slots including him.
I am happy to listen to the more experienced players here in terms of what has historically proven to be effective, but I think we need to have a coherent plan of what we are going to do about low activity slots (ie N_M, Geraint, Zdenek, DGB) that are currently coasting as we could quite conceiveably get to D2 and have 4 players in the pool that have very little for us to make a read off. I am voting DGB due to scumminess and my vote on her will hopefully also provide some utility in terms of encouraging her to engage more, but I am happy to be pragmatic and collaborate to apply pressure on another low-activity player like Zdenekif we think the pressure would actually lead to something useful-
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In terms of where my reads are at RN having caught up to the present:
Towny:
Andres
Gamma
Weak town:
JV
Infinity, to a lesser extent. He is nullish for me in terms of alignment, but he is clearly trying to facilitate the game state progressing.
True null, ie active/engaged but I don't have a strong read on them either way (ie I really ought to look at these slots more thoroughly as not a great deal from them has stuck out to me):
VP
Taylor
FL/Math
Null due to inactivity/not enough to form a read from
N_M
Geraint (somewhat scummier than N_M, but I have realized from looking at his other games that his behaviour is consistent with how he behaves as both alignments elsewhere).
Scummy:
DK
DGB (scummier, but with less certainty as there's less to go off for her).
Zdenek I am finding hard to place in the above, he shares some similarities with DGB in that he lurking in plain sight and not a N_M/Geraint style lurker. Tbqh, I am very wary of people coasting through and forcing us to guess their alignment later on off a limited pool of info, which makes me wary of the lurker slots including him.
I am happy to listen to the more experienced players here in terms of what has historically proven to be effective, but I think we need to have a coherent plan of what we are going to do about low activity slots (ie N_M, Geraint, Zdenek, DGB) that are currently coasting as we could quite conceiveably get to D2 and have 4 players in the pool that have very little for us to make a read off. I am voting DGB due to scumminess and my vote on her will hopefully also provide some utility in terms of encouraging her to engage more, but I am happy to be pragmatic and collaborate to apply pressure on another low-activity player like Zdenekif we think the pressure would actually lead to something useful-
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No idea how my previous post got posted twice - apologies
cross-posted with this -> having looked at a couple of their games, it seems like they were somewhat more engaged on later days, but I agree that it would be good to have a plan in mind for what we are going to do about geraint/N_M as a town, especially if they do not kick into gear later onIn post 1195, JacksonVirgo wrote:
How would you ever know they'll be more sortable than anyone else.In post 1179, Tayl0r Swift wrote:we can do better than gerain, especially since gerain should be come more sortable on later days.-
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As a side note, I'm presuming LHF is "Low, Hard, Fast" ?In post 1203, JacksonVirgo wrote:
That whole "on lookout for lhf" thing is just plain contradicting everything, as I remember calling out in my wall on them.In post 1185, Marky Mark wrote:... but she herself voted Geraint a couple of pages earlier, which is a wagon based on very similar principles (ie pressuring an inactive & hard to read player)-
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Why do you hope you are wrong? Have the courage of your convictionsIn post 1201, JacksonVirgo wrote:
You could not have been possibly a single bit more conspicuous, I hope I am wrong though.In post 1184, geraintm wrote:
I'll just chip in that id rather not die today. But I don't mind being run up for a while until people decide to vote someone else off.In post 1179, Tayl0r Swift wrote:we can do better than gerain, especially since gerain should be come more sortable on later days.
Putting pressure on me isn't going to alter my posts today for what it is worth. You aren't going to generate a reaction from me.
But if you want to see how others react, be my guest.
NB - I personally don't think it is massively scummy as they seem to play like this as both alignments from the two other games I looked at-
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I'm not massively convinced by a DK wagon at this point in time (ie mid-day). It would be a wasted opportunity to pressure the lurkier players and get something out of them we can use to stop them coasting and also make a more accurate read. I've outlined why I find them (DK) scummy, but I feel like they'll post plenty of stuff to help refine that read regardless of any vote pressure.
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I'm sorting them as more town than scum as they haven't done anything that stuck out to me as scummy, but they have been engaged in the game, facilitated discussion and made an effort to unpick stuff.In post 1216, DkKoba wrote:hey mark whats the difference between your infinity tr and my scumread? Just asking for a friend
As far as I can tell based on 1144 (please correct me if I am mistaken) a major part of your scumread on them is their involvement with the wagon on math.
For ref, 672 is where the flashwagon on math starts. Shelly started it, infinity jumped onto it and then after a response by math, VP and you then also subsequently also jumped onto it. What was it in particular about Infinity being involved with the wagon that you found scummy as opposed to any of the other participants?-
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You were voting geraint at the time of making post 909 where you call the vote on N_M out as LHFIn post 1214, DkKoba wrote:
i am calling to elim taylor not gerain rn but go offIn post 1203, JacksonVirgo wrote:
That whole "on lookout for lhf" thing is just plain contradicting everything, as I remember calling out in my wall on them.In post 1185, Marky Mark wrote:... but she herself voted Geraint a couple of pages earlier, which is a wagon based on very similar principles (ie pressuring an inactive & hard to read player)-
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So you calling out Gamma voting N_M (ie a non-active hard-to-read player) as being LHF seems inconsistent when you yourself were voting for another non-active, hard-to-read player at the time you made the postIn post 1219, DkKoba wrote:ok so?-
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I don't have a problem with either Gamma's N_M vote or your Geraint vote, but I hope you can see why they are quite similar and why its weird you would call another player out for doing somethingverysimilar to what you were doing yourself at the time
I apologise - I had a look back through your ISO to try and find other things you were SRing him for and couldn't see much. Care to enlighten me?DkKoba wrote:Infinity isnt only scummy for their activity around the math wagon idk why ppl keep trying to make me out as a 2 dimensional player its getting rly annoying game after game-
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Just dragging the light back on DGB for a sec:
I am slightly confused now - claiming you were reading N_M as town due to being soul_masons implied meta reasons to me, but I accept that it is an ambiguous term.In post 1227, DrippingGoofball wrote:Also I called not_mafia my soul mason after ONE POST how is that meta you fools
Let's really try to nail this down - when you posted your readslist, why did you have N_M and Geraint as Town/Scum respectively, when functionally the two slots have acted very similarly?-
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Just dragging the light back on DGB for a sec:
I am slightly confused now - claiming you were reading N_M as town due to being soul_masons implied meta reasons to me, but I accept that it is an ambiguous term.In post 1227, DrippingGoofball wrote:Also I called not_mafia my soul mason after ONE POST how is that meta you fools
Let's really try to nail this down - when you posted your readslist, why did you have N_M and Geraint as Town/Scum respectively, when functionally the two slots have acted very similarly?-
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Lowkey discredit? I'm presuming this is relating to my above post on DGB
A fair few people seem to be TRing DGB but if you look at the slot objectively, it's actively lurked, made some inconsistent reads (eg the disparity between N_M/geraint) and made a couple of posts that try to sound townie ie 356 1162. What is it that you are seeing in the slot that makes it feel towny to you?
We need to find a solution to deal with N_M/Geraint who probs won't respond to pressure, but I think we also need to be shining the light on DGB (and Zedenek to a lesser extent) here so that they can't coast.-
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I admire your optimismIn post 1280, DkKoba wrote: u literally just see which faction nm it seems is actively trying to throw against and then read them as that alignment. I've played with the type before-
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I've been doing a bit of ISOing on VP as its a slot that hadn't really stuck out to me this game. I think Andres has already put across the key points on the previous page that he has been primarily focussed on going after low-activity slots, which is behavior that is aligned to the town's interests but is also unlikely to cause any great controversy, making it hard to sort him either way off the basis of that.
This is NAI IMO but just generally would be keen to see people doing their own homework if looking for meta reads so that if we miselim they don't have the easy excuse of "player XYZ said this was a meta tell"In post 1257, VP Baltar wrote:Hmm, this isn't a terrible argument against infinity. Still interested in Taylor's take on whether indecisiveness fits infinity meta D1.
This line of inquiry has been fairly quiet recently - @VP has FL changed your mind on this slot?In post 1174, VP Baltar wrote:No.
Sorry, but FL has definitely not shaken Math's scuminess just yet. FL is clearly a better player and needs to catch up before we just move on from this wagon.
Good luck with work tonight DK (side note: I'm curious to know what you do that has you work long hours on halloween). I'd love to hear more from you on your other reasons for scumreading infinity outside of the math wagon when you have a chance.-
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Timely cross-post with VP's 1300 -> VP suggesting infinity's reads are broad and uncontroversial, while I am making a similar case on VP
I have also previously voted Geraint (before I did more homework on his previous games) and am voting DGB so I'm totally doing this as well - I'm not saying its bad or wrong, especially when it comes to pressuring low info slots, it just makes it harder to sort people-
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I'm not massively convinced of that atm. Infinity was #2 on the math flash wagon and you were #4. Outside of that, I see the geraint vote, but I can't see him responding to pressure. I do agree with your sentiment of narrowing the pool though and leaning towards a low-info slot over one we are likely to get more out of, all other things being equal.In post 1307, VP Baltar wrote:
I would say the difference is I'm doing more pushing to actually yeet these slots.In post 1306, Marky Mark wrote:Timely cross-post with VP's 1300 -> VP suggesting infinity's reads are broad and uncontroversial, while I am making a similar case on VP-
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Last post for now - I promise
Disregard this - infinity is listed twice seperately in the count. I just saw him on one vote and did a double takeIn post 1310, Marky Mark wrote:The previous votecount doesn't look right to me - unless I am missing something andres was voting infinity
I was just making the more general point that if people are going to use meta reasons to make a push, I want to see them have the courage of their convictions to put their own name behind itVP Baltar wrote:
That's not what I'm doing fwiw. I was asking for Taylor's take. If she had disagreed with infinity, I would have checked myself to see who was being more accurate.In post 1305, Marky Mark wrote:if we miselim they don't have the easy excuse of "player XYZ said this was a meta tell"-
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This is a good spot - I hadn't realized that Zedenek's ultimatum had run out. Hopefully we will get something out of their replacement prior to the end of the day as otherwise that slot is kinda in limboIn post 1324, DrippingGoofball wrote:I don't know which one to vote for. Zdenek is being replaced, no one wants to eliminate geranium, NDmath's replacement is OK, and there's you.