Mini Normal 2207 | The End

[innocentvillager]

like, geraintm may be wrong in that we shouldn't kill mafia D1

but i highly doubt he's wrong that killing mafia on D1 is < 3/13

i think a large reason for this is a lot of towns will decide on a sort of consensus PoE on the meh inactives if those exist. Probably some of those are town and some are scum (they're usually not all scum at least). so it's not that hard for 3 people to guide the town towards the wrong choice of those. Or, if town is already leaning towards a townie in the PoE, they can kind of backoff the wagon to look good down the line or something.

my point is Anya seems unaligned with other players in this plist given that we have sort of consensus-y inactive PoE. and in these situations i feel that the person it lands on is +rand scum, particularly when there's little to no resistance throughout the game or counterpushes

[innocentvillager]

wow troll partner

i'm like a godmother kind of figure

anya (also @George) im surprised neither of you have commented on what I'm doing this game lately and how it might feel familiar?

[innocentvillager]

...so scum would automatically townread each other?

That’s not how the game works. It’s not as if there’s been much reason to tr Anya, and her scum partners would be extra conscious of that fact

let me ask you a question Luca

you're scum here with Anya and like one random person like me

is there any reason to let Anya just die here?

That’s not really relevant to whether or not she has been townread

but if I were her partner I’d probably be bussing/distancing right about now. Maybe distancing while trying to pull away onto another lurker. It’s difficult to say really as I’d have to weigh everything up

The fact is that scum are very aware of how they will be perceived later on in the game and generally hope that townies will end up doing their dirty work for them

so you see scumbuddy Anya getting run up on D1 passively when there are juicy targets like GeorgeBailey and decide to go the distance and bus Anya?

and get 0 cred for your lost partner because 0 people townread Anya?

[innocentvillager]

also, note that 0 people gave a shit about Anya claiming VT other than me this game. i think that's a point in my favor that people generally just go "oh lol, WIFOM scum can claim VT too! let's not risk it and run up a PR" and throw their hands up and not care

[innocentvillager]

I find how consistently inactive George is to be scummy - he makes a post every day or two, just keeping himself out of prod range, and immediately disappears again. It seems somewhat calculated like he’s deliberately just doing enough to remain in the game

because if you’re busy you might not be able to post consistently but you’re more likely to have bursts of activity, which isn’t happening at all with George here

i legitimately don't hate this take

[innocentvillager]

is it? i felt like he had more "bursts" that game and got prodded a lot

[innocentvillager]

my point is Anya seems unaligned with other players in this plist given that we have sort of consensus-y inactive PoE. and in these situations i feel that the person it lands on is

+rand scum

, particularly when there's little to no resistance throughout the game or counterpushes

i mean +rand TOWN not +rand scum

[innocentvillager]

gth id kill any of {Iconeum, NM, GeorgeBailey}

but i want to reorient first before i commit to any scumreads

What are you reorienting from? When is this taking place? We have 3 days.

yes i understand

if you guys kill Anya before i get a chance to do this then whatever

You didn't answer either of my questions

like reorienting my reads and re-evaluating everyone's slot or smthng

im not sure when ill reorient and organize my reads. im not sure why it matters so much to you? i said not to wait for me. if y'all want to hammer anya like whatever i guess. maybe even lim me next for scumsiding if she flips red. no one's going to listen to me anyway, for better or worse

[innocentvillager]

okay serious question has anyone townread Anya at any point in the game?

besides GeorgeBailey's recent random 1-liner, i think the answer to this question is no btw. if someone disagrees please lmk otherwise im going with this interpretation

You.

You have townread Anya.

lol

i mean before the point where she was run up and claimed VT and got brutally tunneled by you guys

like are scum reallly hoping that im going to effect enough change to save their partner that they're just sititng back now and doing nothing? i really don't think so

[innocentvillager]

i think atp i do indeed townlean Anya. i think she's +rand town. if i wasn't shit at this game i would be more confident probably (or maybe i wouldn't have this opinion at all if i was actually good).

[innocentvillager]

is it? i felt like he had more "bursts" that game and got prodded a lot

i might be full of shit actually bc he's been prodded twice already here too.

[innocentvillager]

okay thanks for that VPB

yeah this is a weakness of mine, im decent at playing defense but not the offense part--but it's kind of hard practically when we were close to deadline and i don't really strongly offer an alternative. like im just getting pinged that Anya isn't really the right way to go today and i weakly believe George or NM are better yeets but that's not like, anything i feel strongly about.

[innocentvillager]

iv, did you respond to my q about you jumping in to defend wooper about me being null? like i know i asked this already but i genuinely don't remember

i dont' think i answered that

i just agreed with him that you weren't like super towny to me at the time, that's all, it wasn't a very deep comment

[innocentvillager]

iv, remind me again why you're fine killing george but not anya? is it just the vt claim?

im too lazy to resummarize rn but it's kind of just throughout my recent iso

the VT thing is only a part of it

a lot of it is just gamestate tbh, and how george was kind of ran up but ultimately anya was the low content slot people settled on

but yeah there's more of that in my iso somewhere

[innocentvillager]

you guys should know that this kind of defensive/nonoffensive play isnt' scum indicative from me (e.g. 2180)

it's just not good play (although i think there's still merit to raising concerns about a wagon)

like i said it's a weakness of mine im much worse at the "find scum and push them" offensive part bc it's hard for me to be confidnet about scumreads especially this early

[innocentvillager]

do you guys think Gypyx crumbing his role on opening post is town!indicative? i can't help but think that it could be, because he's pigeonholing himself into one exact claim

(unless he's big brained this and there are like, 5 different roles he crumbed with that post)

any thoughts on this about Gypyx? if you already responded lmk

[innocentvillager]

ok i reskimmed your recent iso and i don't get it. what about ~the gamestate~. they were both run up. people seemed fine with either. like pls resummarize or link where you explained this bc i don't see it and i'm not buying vague "but the gamestate!!" (like 1449) arguments without them actually being backed up by something

George never really got into claim zone. when he did the Anya wagon came up and people just transitioned over.

what pool of people are the scumbuddies of Anya in? you can go "preflip associatives' all you want but like, i just don't see which teams are going to play it the way it played

if Anya is scum and GB is town, Anya's yeet was very avoidable. there were plenty of other slots that easily couldve been pushed while people were applying pressure to Anya

you could say Anya/GB is a lurker scumteam but i don't really believe it.

[innocentvillager]

when he did

*when his wagon was rising, he didn't get into claim zone

[innocentvillager]

im not trying to figure out what it means

but it is clearly a role crumb

if he later says "oh lol that was just me trolling" i would insta-kill gypyx bc that's scummy

like he's basically committing to a claim there regardless

[innocentvillager]

I’d vote to kill Anya but i feel like George’s post could be indicative of town!Anya if George is scum?
If it’s George’s scum partner, then it is at the very least. An extremely poor defense.

you’re aware I said this first right like multiple times

[innocentvillager]

instead of saying my name and then going 'makes me uneasy', 'bad vibes', 'who the fuck is ico' etc

come at me and solve me

Time zone diffs :/

[innocentvillager]

people just transitioned over" is kinda false i think. both wooper and gypyx voted george but never voted anya. likewise, ico/vp/gera voted anya but not george. these wagons aren't the same.

whatever my wording wasn’t entirely accurate the point is George was a wagon then Anya became a bigger one, which means there’s some chance that scum are influencing this

[innocentvillager]

i hate preflip but if i had to call out a "possible anya scumbuddies pool" i feel like all of {wooper, gypyx, n_m, george, iv, alice} fit from a sorta level-zero vca, where we're not even talking about possible bussing (which frankly i feel like happens every goddamn scum yeet but ok).

and like... is that not what's happening right now? haven't multiple people been pushing away from anya?

doubt wooper just lol!lets anya die like she was going to.

gypyx doesn't care enough either

n_m is n_m, ill admit he could be a plausible anya partner

AliceK is doing nothing and maybe could be a plausible anya partner

GeorgeBailey is probably not Anya's partner, terrible positioning around her

i am town

[innocentvillager]

people just transitioned over" is kinda false i think. both wooper and gypyx voted george but never voted anya. likewise, ico/vp/gera voted anya but not george. these wagons aren't the same.

whatever my wording wasn’t entirely accurate the point is George was a wagon then Anya became a bigger one, which means there’s some chance that scum are influencing this

there's a chance that scum are influencing something? in a game of mafia? wow!

ok but who. like why do you think they're influenceing the anya wagon and not george's. is it me/luca/norwee? why are you fine with george wagon but not anya's then? is it vp/ico? are you pushing either of them?

i might not be explaining myself very well. i think they're pretty different wagons. Sure they're both on low-content slots, but one of them just has more votes and it stayed that way for longer and there was less pushback on Anya. it looks like there's a lot of resistance to Anya from your perspective but i feel like that's mainly because ive been making a ton of noise lately and people started to go "oh sure let's compete wagons" or smthing. idk. like you don't have the information that im town so it's harder for you to see it

i just feel like if we are kind of passively whatever wagoning scum D1, we end up with this pool of {George, AliceK, NM, Anya}, the only one that really stuck was Anya. that by itself is a ton of information. it wasn't until i made a big fuss that people started maybe reconsidering, and that happened pretty slowly.

frankly at this point i still don't know what the fuck is going on. people are going back to george kinda and i don't know how i feela bout that either. im burning out a little on this day based on what i feel are a few gut pings that are hard to explain ig but ultimately i am not informed so i cannot tell you who on the wagons i believe are pushing wagons in bad faith. if you guys decide to eliminate anya i won't fault you guys that much, the only thing at fault here is my inability to clearly detail what is going on (for both myself and you gusy)

[innocentvillager]

i don't think scum were banking on me (or anyone) to come out and WK their scumbuddy the way i did and THEN make moves to other wagons so in that case you have to kind of believe scum were passively not on Anya or lolbussing her D1 for like, zero towncred whatsoever. if you think there's like a reasonable chance of that happening then that's you r call, im simply saying that it is unlikely

[innocentvillager]

im also kind of assuming scumteams on average are playing reasonably well and not like AFK lol our partner's dying like whatever. it's jsut so bad to let the Anya wagon get to where it was and for scum!Anya to get where it was whent here were plenty of other elimbaity slots. like George never got up to that point so i don't really make the same arguments fo rGeorge here.

if we have a pure lurker scumteam/scum just doesn't care about wincon then like sure my analysis is overleveling it a little. i mean that's partially what's giving me doubt here

[innocentvillager]

i mean if i had 7 votes rn id kill Not_Mafia. i don't know why it's so hard to get support for that wagon and don't think GeorgeBailey is that scummy. I will hammer GeorgeBailey if he gets to it though. i just don't really know

if you need a pool, im looking at N_M > {GB, AliceK} > Iconeum

[innocentvillager]

GeorgeBailey like might become more sortable but N_M will not imo, which is another reason to vote N_M

but also i feel like N_M is a lot more likely to die in this spot if he's town given how disorganized town is :/

[innocentvillager]

i mean id take a coinflip over Anya at this point

i also don't *hate* the idea of flipping Anya and jsut getting this whole thing over with because that maybe tells us good associatives info

[innocentvillager]

im not trying to figure out what it means

but it is clearly a role crumb

if he later says "oh lol that was just me trolling" i would insta-kill gypyx bc that's scummy

like he's basically committing to a claim there regardless

I mean, what if he just claims VT later and has some semi-plausible explanation for why that means VT? Gypyx has a weird mind, so I guess I don't see what he'd claim where he couldn't make SOMETHING sound ok.

never responded to this

but what do you think his intention is, as scum, is when posting that? i dont' think he's expecting to get townread for that post.

So as scum is it:

1) random nonsense where he's going to go "oh lol it was just a joke" at massclaim
2) an actual crumb of an actual role he has in mind
3) a super big brained move where it can actually crumb like, 5-10 different roles at once

1) - this is unbelievably scummy
2) - okay so this is the pigeonholing scenario we're talking about here, trapping himself into a claim. This i believe is the most likely scum!Gypyx scenario, like maybe his role/partners roles dictates that there's like 1 or 2 roles that he ever claims as scum here idk he's the setup guy.
3) - gj Gypyx i guess? Still pigeonholing himself into those specific roles i guess but it's not terrible

and the benefit of it is... towncred? really? how much towncred does he get from that

[innocentvillager]

ill offer a shitty readslist ive been drafting in a few hours. it's not much don't wait for it or expect anything remotely good or insightful im fucking clueless.

[innocentvillager]

i would take a coinflip over someone people are pushing any day of the week.

thank you geraint

we agree

there's actually a dumb little problem here tho; that N_M isn't actually a coinflip. because scum don't have to let it happen if he's scum. that's why i wish i had dayvig or could have 7 votes.

[innocentvillager]

post

[innocentvillager]

Probably just town

geraintm - probably just town
VP Baltar - this is his townself. opinionated, aggressive, writes well, feels like he's pocketing you but he's not really, practical, VP Baltar that I butt heads with a lot. never played with scum him. he can be town for now.

Townlean

Datisi - possibly just town at this point, he's convincingly emulated his townself if he's scum. lot of paranoia and things going on. don't think im ever moving this slot past a townlean, idk why there's always the Dayteezee paranoia.
Gypyx - still don't really think scum claims this early. he's too like, whatever to be scum here imo. maybe he's just chilling doesn't give a fuck though. but he's trying to expand his scumrange and work on not being bad at scum so i don't think his scumplay here is going to be this boring.
Wooper - probably on the slightly townier side of null due to interactions we've. hasn't been here enough. is comfortable with the gamestate if he's scum ig. not aligned with Anya or GB
Anya - i think this slot leans town. the events leading up to Anya wagon did not feel like feel like she was aligned with anyone. I'm a little less sure now that competing wagons actually are like kind of a thing due to me yelling about it but i think i still weigh the prior info more. if she's scum scum are probably more meh slots/lurkers, they're not predicting that im going to singlehandedly WK this slot. Maybe Norway or Luca could be a partner for the moving off, idk. maybe not.

PoE

NorwegianboyEE - aside from the outburst which I still feel was p townie idrk on this slot. he's just not really here which makes it harder to read him because when he's obvtown he's obvtown. Idk he's kind of loosely in my PoE but still on the townier side of it.
Luca Blight - i was townleaning this slot early on but don't really know anymore. he says this game is flat which is why he's not obvtowning but like is it really that bad? maybe it is idk. idk he's kind of more boring this game than i expected town!him to be. scum!him is even more boring, but that scumgame where he snowed town!Datisi looks like less boring so maybe he's just getting better at scum. i legitimately don't hate N_M's Luca is pushing boring slots take here.
GeorgeBailey - im p conflicted on this slot. I don't see why people are calling him super scummy (e.g. Wooper). i think there's some towniness in his half-assed Anya defense and emotion when called out that his tinfoil theory was bad. ive never played with scum!him but he's been 2/2 for super low activity as town. i will kill this slot if it comes to it but im like whatever here i think.
Iconeum - lot of posts and a lot of me going ehhhh what is going on with this slot. We're not yeeting here today and i don't really care
AliceK - lol who even is this. they're gone. their posting is uninspiring and terse. a wagon appeared on her and disappeared to George/Anya and we all just forgot about her.
NM - we can't get support for this wagon even though it's going to be impossible to yeet him later. i think that's scum indicative honestly

[innocentvillager]

like i agree with vp i very much feel like scum are trying to run the clock down and whoever is town doing that, please fucking stop and actually contribute to this game you signed up to play

does this include me

[innocentvillager]

fine VOTE: GeorgeBailey

[innocentvillager]

like it's annoying you're just writing off my stuff as useless nonsense but what can i do i guess.

[innocentvillager]

im pretty sure im out of scumrange by now tbh

[innocentvillager]

Nice one IV. Woohoo! *Clap clap*

...Why the hell am i in your "PoE" -,-

actuall you're probably at the bottom of my townleans. idk you were the person "least in my PoE"

[innocentvillager]

{Wooper, NM, Iconeum} is my tinfoil d1 lol!whole team guess

[innocentvillager]

i just go back and forth on your a lot Datisi. one moment i think you're just obvtown and the next im terrified of you

im currently in a "Datisi is probably just obvtown here" mood but that could definitely change in the next 0.030053 minutes

[innocentvillager]

i mean ill probably come around on you at some point Datisi if you're town lol

im just a little more rusty/paranoid in general than ive been in the past

[innocentvillager]

what's sad about it lol

lol im surprised your read on me tanked over time. i think i started off relatively within scumrange but have been creeping out of it over time

[innocentvillager]

My holiday is over but now my schedule is up in the air due to covid lockdowns, so I’m not sure how active I’ll be going forward but I’ll try my best.

Town:

Datisi, IV, Norwee, Baltar, Geraint

That’s kinda where I’m at right now. I don’t have any significant sr’s at this point and am still waiting for certain players to start doing stuff

this?

pedit: sorry I that is not what i meant. I meant it's going to be nearly impossible to read him later based on giving him more time to play/provide content

[innocentvillager]

ugh im really busy suddenly

im not going to have as much time for this anymore

consdier this an unofficial v/la

[innocentvillager]

wild

[innocentvillager]

no idea what’s going on anymore lmao

[innocentvillager]

i mean why are you guys surprised? literally we've been talking about these two compulsive hammerers all day and skirting around them

he does it with little deadline left where a claim would do... what exactly? from a literal lurker?

meh

[innocentvillager]

Not mafia is an actually viable policy elim who isn't being discussed

i was pretty in favor of this lol..

[innocentvillager]

george you were town?

[innocentvillager]

id love to twilight tango with you George but i really need to get back to work and restrain myself

im also actually town this time and not twilight posting to look better

[innocentvillager]

they've had weeks to claim if they wanted to

yeah ive had weeks to claim too ig

pedit: lmao i was p sad when you died, should've hammered marci. shame we lost that game

[innocentvillager]

i mean wanna post your readslist for the lulz?

[innocentvillager]

IV is generally going on about things that don't mean anything.

the feeling is mutual

[innocentvillager]

it's whatever though im used to butting heads with town!you

[innocentvillager]

fucking lol at final thoughts.

[innocentvillager]

if datisi is still alive on Day 3 just reverse his reads or kill him. either way reverse his reads. if he dies before then follow his Dead PT-entry reads like scripture (unfortunately we'll never get to see them)

[innocentvillager]

IV is generally going on about things that don't mean anything.

the feeling is mutual

I'll be real, you feel off to me this game a bit. I understand we butt heads sometimes, but I think I've been OK at telling when you're town after our first game together. You seem off to me ..or at least ineffectual...in your pushes here.

i mean without me anya definitely would've died today

i clearly did *something* lol

[innocentvillager]

i mean sure we all played our part but i think it's obvious that my big loud defense of Anya and the interactions that followed was what made some people at least reconsider. i don't even know how i feel about all that now tbh, maybe i just scumsided and anya really is scum idk. she didn't die today after all

[innocentvillager]

i mean they're both in my PoE so we agree there kinda

[innocentvillager]

ok fine i'm sheeping innocentvillager tommorow at least for a while

you have my double vote villager

what prompted you to say this anya

[innocentvillager]

UNVOTE: GeorgeBailey

[innocentvillager]

if he's not hammered lets kill VOTE: Iconeum or smthng

[innocentvillager]

GB is kind of an ambiguous vote tbh

[innocentvillager]

i merely preferred it to anya i never fully supported it

i was very whatever

[innocentvillager]

iv there's 9 hours to deadline there is no fucking way that is ever going through

y'all made that shit wagon y'all are seeing that flip

why you so intent on it going through?

[innocentvillager]

if i was modding this im not positive i would've counted "GB" on purpose. it's not completely unambiguously a vote on GeorgeBailey

[innocentvillager]

i could vote elsewhere too, tbh if people wanna flashwagon someone else. even down for Anya is probably less likely town than George at this point

[innocentvillager]

really bizarre vigilante shot

[innocentvillager]

im sorry Datisi I should’ve just believed my gut you were town lol oh well

[innocentvillager]

VOTE: Iconeum

i assume wooper was the vig shot

even if datisi was the vig shot it's still weird

[innocentvillager]

do you still want to kill Anya, vpb?

[innocentvillager]

we should also probably sheep Datisi btw bc he died.

@Datisi please channel your reads energy through to the main thread, maybe we'll be able to pick up on something.

[innocentvillager]

fuck the PRs

i mean we can probably win this on dayplay right? there's gotta be scum in {Ico, NM, maybe Luca} right?

[innocentvillager]

i think we may be vibing more this day phase baltar

[innocentvillager]

i mean ideally 2?

[innocentvillager]

throw Alice in there as a lol 4th probably

[innocentvillager]

i mean ideally 2?

Two with a maybe? Wow.

lol wdym

im not that confident in my reads tbh

I just kinda feel like this *should* be solvable via day play

Not that I think I can do it lol

[innocentvillager]

axtually wooper was kinda obvtown after george flip

maybe Datisi really was the vig kill??

[innocentvillager]

axtually wooper was kinda obvtown after george flip

maybe Datisi really was the vig kill??

[innocentvillager]

I think this is definitely winnable through day play. I'll do some Datisi rereading tomorrow probs. Mostly I think Ico wanted that kill though.

If you ISO Ico, you will also see some waffling around picking Anya vs George. No real hard push for either and then finally tips over onto George when it looks likely to happen.

I didn’t look as in depth but yeah when I isod ico earlier on D1 the switch to George was weird

It actually pinged me as George might actually be town at the time, but now it kinda feels more like a bus with the knowledge that George is scum here? Idk

[innocentvillager]

ico can be scum with georhe but probably isn't scum with Anya
I'd be quite surprised if datisi and Luca are scum together and I independently kinda think datisi is weakly more likely to be town

yep solid read

i'm helping derail anya flip in order to get some bus driving credit on gorge

hmmm

what about this post

it’s just scum wifom?

[innocentvillager]

if ahsoka is last scum i am seriously gonna be fucking pissed for once again having great reads 3 seconds after getting killed

Datisi when are we going to a play a town-town game where you don't tunnel my early play then die before solving the game and i start to obvtown??

[innocentvillager]

well, if NM is town, i need to think about this more ig

[innocentvillager]

i could get behind a luca vote too

[innocentvillager]

ico u have literally used the exact "scum!me wouldn't NK town!datisi here bc x, y, z" wifom before as scum

so why should i believe any of what you're saying here on Datisi's death

[innocentvillager]

1st, im goign to have to stop this "scum never get eliminated day 1" thing

i mean you can (at least partially) thank me for that

we were going to kill anya then i started yelling about how about something felt off and tbh partly using your logic of "town is just going apathy kill anya today", then people started going over to george

literally im only ever scum if you think im exactly scum with Anya and diverted over to my other scumbuddy george

[innocentvillager]

also i don't think you're wrong in general about scum being < rand to die D1. we did a good thing D1, and let's keep it going. sussing me is clearly the wrong track here imo

[innocentvillager]

I'm going wildly speculative that the attempted switch to not_mafia [who i am beleiving their claim right now] combined with that weird attempt to not eliminate GEorge from Innocent Villager

i thought George was towny post hammer when he had nothing to gain as scum. datisi and vpb also both thought George's rxn was towny so i kind went with that as well. obviously Ico's vote was a hammer i was unvoting as a dumb last ditch lol gambit. before George was hammered i was very "meh, whatever, could flip scum i guess, def better than Anya elim" on George.

[innocentvillager]

While I agree you griped about the Anya wagon, I think you are giving yourself too much credit on George happening. You were not voting either and were somewhat actively trying to get a policy on NM, weren't you?

like i said im better at the defense part. there are people who are better at the offense part. The offense wouldn't have happened without the defense. i did end up voting george after i was pushed by you to pick Anya or George.

[innocentvillager]

sure i was trying to get a policy on NM but for me to be scum with George derailing the town!Anya wagon would've still been horrendously dumb bc people were likley to switch to George anyway if not Anya.

[innocentvillager]

im a PoE based player and i still don't feel like you're as town as you should be to me

like your "im just not into this game bc lurkers" defense is plausible, but unfortunately fmpov i can't just TR you based off of that

[innocentvillager]

i mean you're not wrong i am being lazy yes

im really not good with scumreads esp early on. TM just finished and I say that both iterations of the Large Normal game my D1 reads were rand, especially my scum ones. it's why i feel i do better with a more poe based style going from the top down early on.

[innocentvillager]

i don't dislike anything you've posted, but i don't feel like that's a good reason to townbin you

[innocentvillager]

actually now that i think about it, your desire to switch off anya and onto like George pinged me at the time but with a George scumflip feel more town!indicative for you. so maybe you're just town idk

[innocentvillager]

alright whatever you can think what you want i guess. i doubt im getting yeeted today so we can revisit this convo if i actually get into wagon range

[innocentvillager]

datisi and vpb also both thought George's rxn was towny

I expressly said I could still see him flipping scum based on his reaction...so no I did not find him townie post hammer that I recall.

Datisi pushed back when I said that, and I sort of took his word that he knew better than me.

yeah that's probably what happened tbh

[innocentvillager]

gypyx how do you feel that i am pushing Iconeum

[innocentvillager]

im pretty clearly not scum lol -_-

[innocentvillager]

i also don't think ico doubles down on breaking his meta of not bussing when he did that litterally last scumgame

Fwiw, people play against their own meta all the time. This is a bad defense.

Second, I am going to take a wild guess that when this game is over and I read the scum PT, I am going to see George Bailey begging to get bussed. That was a terrible D1 as scum and almost certainly had some intentional nose dive in there. If he didn't want to play scum or something, then he would just have his buddies bus him D1 for cred.

If Ico never usually buses, that actually makes more sense why the bus was completely awkward and easy to spot.

wow baltar i am kinda vibing with you today

[innocentvillager]

he'd be very suspicious if it turned out to be VT when I mentioned that possibility.

please quote me on this. i did not say this ever.

[innocentvillager]

there's nothing wrong with Gypyx's claim?? Baltar what is your point?

[innocentvillager]

this litterally wasn't meant to be understood

maybe mentionning there was a possibility i crumbed vt was a decent idea, idk

it was obviously possible you crumbed VT. idk what baltar's talking about

and of course it wasn't meant to be understood, you literally told us that.

[innocentvillager]

im not trying to figure out what it means

but it is clearly a role crumb

if he later says "oh lol that was just me trolling" i would insta-kill gypyx bc that's scummy

like he's basically committing to a claim there regardless

I mean, what if he just claims VT later and has some semi-plausible explanation for why that means VT? Gypyx has a weird mind, so I guess I don't see what he'd claim where he couldn't make SOMETHING sound ok.

never responded to this

but what do you think his intention is, as scum, is when posting that? i dont' think he's expecting to get townread for that post.

So as scum is it:

1) random nonsense where he's going to go "oh lol it was just a joke" at massclaim
2) an actual crumb of an actual role he has in mind
3) a super big brained move where it can actually crumb like, 5-10 different roles at once

1) - this is unbelievably scummy
2) - okay so this is the pigeonholing scenario we're talking about here, trapping himself into a claim. This i believe is the most likely scum!Gypyx scenario, like maybe his role/partners roles dictates that there's like 1 or 2 roles that he ever claims as scum here idk he's the setup guy.
3) - gj Gypyx i guess? Still pigeonholing himself into those specific roles i guess but it's not terrible

and the benefit of it is... towncred? really? how much towncred does he get from that

these were my thoughts on Gypyx's claim. it's possible that he was trying to claim multiple things at once, or for some reason just decided he was going to claim VT today

[innocentvillager]

(if he's scum that is). i think on balance gypyx is probablytown but i haven't really thought about that slot in a while so id have to reevaluate

[innocentvillager]

can people in 2201 give me a summary of what happened there and how that affects your reads on people here? and if anyone had stuff they "couldn't talk about" bc of that ongoing game, now is the time

[innocentvillager]

specifically Gypyx, Anya, Iconeum, Luca Blight, and RIP Datisi

[innocentvillager]

im not trying to figure out what it means

but it is clearly a role crumb

if he later says "oh lol that was just me trolling" i would insta-kill gypyx bc that's scummy

like he's basically committing to a claim there regardless

baltar are you referring to this??

[innocentvillager]

see i told you ico's a wolf

why? was your read right on him that game or something?

[innocentvillager]

im not trying to figure out what it means

but it is clearly a role crumb

if he later says "oh lol that was just me trolling" i would insta-kill gypyx bc that's scummy

like he's basically committing to a claim there regardless

I mean, what if he just claims VT later and has some semi-plausible explanation for why that means VT? Gypyx has a weird mind, so I guess I don't see what he'd claim where he couldn't make SOMETHING sound ok.

never responded to this

but what do you think his intention is, as scum, is when posting that? i dont' think he's expecting to get townread for that post.

So as scum is it:

1) random nonsense where he's going to go "oh lol it was just a joke" at massclaim
2) an actual crumb of an actual role he has in mind
3) a super big brained move where it can actually crumb like, 5-10 different roles at once

1) - this is unbelievably scummy
2) - okay so this is the pigeonholing scenario we're talking about here, trapping himself into a claim. This i believe is the most likely scum!Gypyx scenario, like maybe his role/partners roles dictates that there's like 1 or 2 roles that he ever claims as scum here idk he's the setup guy.
3) - gj Gypyx i guess? Still pigeonholing himself into those specific roles i guess but it's not terrible

and the benefit of it is... towncred? really? how much towncred does he get from that

these were my thoughts on Gypyx's claim. it's possible that he was trying to claim multiple things at once, or for some reason just decided he was going to claim VT today

can you explain the problem with this logic then?

[innocentvillager]

im not saying im right, ive just had it out there and like zero people have actually engaged with it or agreed

[innocentvillager]

you're kind of avoiding the root of why im townreading it by blanketly dismissing it as "it means nothing".

sure he *could've* made everything up

but, what's his intention when he posts it? i think this is a question people don't ask enough: why is someone doing X as scum/town? are you suggesting my 3rd scenario where he's planning a bunch of different possible claims with that crumb? are you suggesting a 4th intention, which is that he just made up random stuff, thinking that he could claim whatever later and tie it to that as complete and utter bullshit?

i think im starting to accept a reality where scum!Gypyx intentionally does a big brained move like that to claim like, one or two possible things. But I still cannot imagine it getting towncred. it's just such an unnecessary move. and if the logic was really THAT convoluted i can only think it might be met with skepticism in main thread.

[innocentvillager]

okay sorry i have been pretty busy lately

but the amount of PoEs i have creeped into DESPITE what happened yesterday is absolutely fucking outstanding

someone legitimately push a fucking case on me for what happened yesterday jesus christ

[innocentvillager]

but, what's his intention when he posts it?

Because if he is forced to claim later and needs to claim a power role, he has a "crumb" that could be made to fit any role he wants.

"See guys, told you I was the Town cop!" Or whatever.

I don't even think it was a big brain plan, so much as something the master of crazy roles would cook up on a normal afternoon.

I'm not saying he can't be a VT here...just saying there is definitely motive to do that as scum.

The scum benefit to such a crumb is

1) no-one wants to lim you D1 in case you’re a pr

2) you can use it to explain away just about any claim that is convenient in the moment

If gypyx is scum then he’s hardly a power wolf, and so such a gimmick might prove useful to him to at least help him get through the first day

If he’s Town then he might do it to bait the NK I guess

to clarify you are both arguing that, IF HE IS SCUM, he literally crumbed NONSENSE, thinking that he would be able to spin it into any claim he wanted. And that somehow it would get him towncred. That's literally what you're both saying. Is that correct?

[innocentvillager]

let's just kill ico

sorry if ur town ico

that's all i have to add for now

thanks for responding to my points on gypyx. Yes I gave him towncred but basically zero other people did. i don't play like most people do, i still think as scum it's a weird spot to try and get towncred and don't think Gypyx would expect much. but whatever, that's just a difference of opinion at this point

Luca i see you are saying scum!Gypyx could've came up with a crumb that worked for VT and his specific role. that's one scenario where Gypyx is scum, I agree, but to me it still just feels like the costs outweigh the benefits for someone like scum!Gypyx.

id need to reread a little more before i keep parroting this reason for town!Gypyx, but i don't think ill be touching that slot today

[innocentvillager]

VP

how can i possibly be scum with anyone other than Anya

why not just yeet Anya over me?

[innocentvillager]

Looking at the end of Day 1, my IV and Anya pair looks classical one off one on.

you are making reads based on one on one off, great. your d2 play remarkably is considerably worse than your d1 play, that's one thing we have in common this game at least

[innocentvillager]

i don't hate Ico's points on Alice, the Ico moving into Alice's PoE seems like it could be kind of opportunistic. but Alice is a very easy push for scum!Ico too so it doesn't make me want to kill Ico less

[innocentvillager]

real big brain move from scum me man

WK a townie about to die

be indecisive around my 2nd biggest wagon, who is probably dying since he has actual support for getting scumread

push a town troll and pray he gets policied over my partner

wow, really great of me to put a lot of energy into this play

cmon, im not scum with anyone other than Anya here

[innocentvillager]

VOTE: innocentvillager im fucking done with this game goodbye

vote me out idgaf

[innocentvillager]

Like all these defenses of "I'm better than this as scum" mean nothing to me. Y'all let george eat a yeet D1. Clearly the scum team isn't #crushingit

like oh my fucking god what the fuck is this

[innocentvillager]

why as scum wouldn't i just let town!anya die it makes ZERO sense to me

im not great at scum but im not a fucking idiot

[innocentvillager]

get it over with im so done with this bullshit

[innocentvillager]

and now you're going to say "im just scum giving up and AtEing here". congratufuckinglations you're so great at mafia

[innocentvillager]

kill me for AtEing i literally couldn't care less right now

[innocentvillager]

it like absolutely blows my mind that im still being posited as a team with anyone other than Anya here

[innocentvillager]

VOTE: Iconeum

[innocentvillager]

im sorry i shouldn't be making this game toxic. my apologies. if i need to replace out i will.

[innocentvillager]

Dude, you realize your waffling yesterday looked like you were hoping Anya ate it while you white knighted, right?

that is not an argument ive heard before actually. it's actually not terrible

but a) in what world does that get me towncred b) clearly i was trying and GeorgeBailey was the next elim. it's way too much risk for the reward. but i guess that argument is at least defensible

[innocentvillager]

sorry guys this happens sometimes to me. if you guys suspect me that's fine regardless of the reasons. i just get very very frustrated when i feel ive been blatantly obvtown and people want to kill me anyway. i need to deal with it better, this is mafia

if you decide i am most likely scum, i will eat the miselim. i will try very hard to not be toxic when going down. im just annoyed that's all, sorry again.

[innocentvillager]

calling it stall tactics seems a little extreme he's just not here imo

[innocentvillager]

i don't really think there's a strong correlation between alignment and someone's read on me necessarily, not sure why you're implying it's weird i don't think so

[innocentvillager]

ive said multiple times i think gypyx is townlean for me

[innocentvillager]

I don't really feel like Ico's towntold so i'm not really understanding why Gypyx is gaining votes again.

i also don't feel like Ico has towntold

[innocentvillager]

there's probably scum in {Alice, Ico} for that weird exchange between them though. i feel like Ico weirdly moving into Alice's PoE is weird but im not sure if that should implicate Alice or if it's just a convenient push by scum!ico

[innocentvillager]

Dude, you realize your waffling yesterday looked like you were hoping Anya ate it while you white knighted, right?

that is not an argument ive heard before actually. it's actually not terrible

but a) in what world does that get me towncred b) clearly i was trying and GeorgeBailey was the next elim. it's way too much risk for the reward. but i guess that argument is at least defensible

I don't think it would necessarily get you town cred.

You've kind of tried to get some points for it by saying you defended Anya, but IF you're scum, I think you maybe forgot to vote and got called on it. Mistakes happen as scum.

It was a risk for sure, but also - in my experience - you do need to take some risks as scum to actually win. Playing too safe leads to getting PoEd many times. Trust me, I suck at risk taking as scum, and I often lose as scum.

the point is it wouldn't get me towncred so why would i do it. all it would look like is i somehow had TMI on Anya's alignment.

I have no idea what you're saying in the second line. Please elaborate

I agree with your third line about taking risks. but risks should be calculated not like, blatantly playing against wincon so you can go "WIFOM WIFOM i wouldn't do this" down the line.

[innocentvillager]

Gypyx is far from the only person who thinks i could be scum. why should the strength of that read matter?

i mean id like an explanation too but im not dying to know to sort him

[innocentvillager]

i mean there's probably some scumz out there who are opportunistically taking advantage of some townies suspecting me to slip me into the potential future miselim pool. i detest being miselimed to scum's agenda. or it could be the other way where scum were putting me in their PoE opportunistically and townies followed along. Or somewhere in between. idk man, mafia is hard

[innocentvillager]

GeorgeBailey as Mafia goon is like a sacrificial goat

You’d have to bus him at some point, and sooner the better for the benefit of associatives

is this actually true? i remember lol!metaing him and he literally won the game for scum surviving to endgame

[innocentvillager]

Well basically I think your stances on each other are weird as fuck and it leads to believe there is at least one scum in you and gypyx, and quite possibly you’re both scum

weird =/= scummy

i conflate the two sometimes as well, but you're going to have to do better than "weird" if you're trying to attribute scum!indication to either of our reads

like how did me/anya interactions ping you yesterday? was our stance on each other not both "weird"?

[innocentvillager]

IF you're scum, I think you maybe forgot to vote and got called on it. Mistakes happen as scum.

no this line

what does this mean

[innocentvillager]

I mean you were white knighting Anya without voting George as deadline approached, then Datisi and I were like 'uh, you going to actually vote or fence sit ?'

If you're scum, it's possible you had forgotten to throw down a vote on George or thought you had one there.

i was voting not mafia

and then i begrudgingly consolidated on george

im not sure how your brain is interpreting this as "iv is scummy" or "scum!IV forgot to vote"??

im just very confused

[innocentvillager]

UNVOTE: GeorgeBailey

if he's not hammered lets kill VOTE: Iconeum or smthng

Btw what prompted this?

think i explained this

i interpreted goerge/datisi/vpb twilight reactions as "george probably flipping town" and that was a 90% joke 10% low probability attempt to get wagon going on someone else

i mean it wasn't going to work lmao

i don't think anyone should read into that as either alignment?? i think geraint is scumreading me for that post for some bizarre reason.

[innocentvillager]

Btw I did briefly explain why it’s scummy here:

Gypyx’s Sr on Iv strikes me as really weird, and yet Iv is actively defending him?

It’s a strange dynamic. It’s likes gypyx is voting his buddy because he probably doesn’t get limmed today, and it allows Iv to hard defend gypyx without it being so obvious that they’re buddies if one of them flips later down the line?

And it allows gypyx to take a hard stance without needing to make any enemies amongst the town

that is a very specific reasoning for us exactly being scum together

i think you're reaching if you're going from this to "at least one scum in {iv, gypyx}"

[innocentvillager]

real big brain move from scum me man

WK a townie about to die (anya)

be indecisive around my 2nd biggest wagon (GeorgeBailey), who is probably dying since he has actual support for getting scumread

push a town troll (Not_mafia) and pray he gets policied over my partner

wow, really great of me to put a lot of energy into this play

cmon, im not scum with anyone other than Anya here

[innocentvillager]

sorry guys im having a real stressful week at work

[innocentvillager]

@luca any thoughts on gypyx's suspicion of me?

i don't really think it spews him as either alignment - in a confbiased way weakly town because of this line "and just overall i don't like his tone, and like, i'm really getting vibes like i'm right but can't find the material to push on, of course this has no value for y'all but whatever"

[innocentvillager]

{NM}
{VPB, geraint}
{Anya, Norway}
{Luca, Gypyx}
{Alice}
{Ico}

no idea rn. im probably at something like this maybe

[innocentvillager]

actually Anya can probably go in the Luca, Gypyx tier

[innocentvillager]

Alice/Ico is kind of a weird pairing idk

I think Alice moving Ico from top town to kind of in her PoE and Ico calling her out on it might be not-partnery.

[innocentvillager]

There is almost no way scum tries that hard in a game like this. The scum play here would be to feed the apathy and inactivity, not try to counteract it

why as scum wouldn't i just let town!anya die it makes ZERO sense to me

im not great at scum but im not a fucking idiot

why do you get to make this argument but i don't?

VP you realize how incredibly tilting it is to read this from my perspective yeah? I spent so much effort yesterday and yet I’m getting universally PoE’d

[innocentvillager]

I don’t get why I’m still low in your reads, IV

I also find this silly. Luca is obvtown

Meant to quote this one not the Ico post

[innocentvillager]

why as scum wouldn't i just let town!anya die it makes ZERO sense to me

im not great at scum but im not a fucking idiot

why do you get to make this argument but i don't?

because I did it first when Anya was clearly about to die

You voted Anya over George initially but then switched when it was more clear people were losing inteeest in anya

[innocentvillager]

Also, despite how much effort I put into this game for at various points, I’m not sure how you’re getting effort =/= scum here in general

[innocentvillager]

I am not sure why you think my read transition on Ico is weird. It's actually very simple.

i think i TR these kinds of phrasings

i think it's just Ico + one more at this point

but if Ico is town i'd have to reevaluate basically everyone

[innocentvillager]

Can you explain your read progression on me please

i thought you were town at the beginning. i think you coming in hot with "IV scum" would've been a really ballsy move after literally doing exactly that as scum in TM LN

Also why do you no longer Tr gypyx

I've had him as TL. nothing about my read there has changed. but i have a lot of townleans atp so im reevaluating my tiers and stuff

if I’m scum Anya is probably more likely to be town lol this is a classic scum!innocentvillager WK situation.

It's funny how IV said this and yet is now like '

why would I save Anya as scum'

okay this was like way before i actually started WKing her DO NOT take this out of context for yourself or others. this was after i made like one throwaway post or something about how i kinda believed her claim. I didn't know i was going to start WKing her until I started thinking about it and actually doing it.

where are anyas scum buddies?

IV, you were pushing this argument D1 so I have a question for you

Who is Icon's partner here? You don't seem to think it's gypyx, so who is it, and why aren't you asking this same question now?

this isn't a bad question and is something i obviously need to reevaluate. i still think this is kind of a different scenario because Ico has been the predominant wagon and sussed all day, whereas the Anya wagon kind of developed as a counterpush to GeorgeBailey. (which Iconeum was on, for example)

there's also 1 partner left instead of 2, and i think there's too much support for Ico at this point for the other partner to just come out aggressively defending him at SoD, so there's less scum that can go about influencing everything i think

this reminds me, if i ever get time, to go back on the Anya pushers, because if she's town then there's very likely at least one scum helping that push go through. Ico could fit the bill but that's not the only possibility ofc.

fine VOTE: GeorgeBailey

This vote was actually forced at this point

because Baltar and Datisi were calling IV out for not committing to a viable wagon. IV was already voting Not_Mafia which no-one else was really interested in and he couldn't justify going back on Anya rather than George after everything he had said

okay but then why am i WKing Anya in the first place. what is my scum plan. If Not_Mafia isn't really a viable wagon what is scum!me trying to do here?? lolpush NotMafia only for people to start compromising on my buddy? your arguments are confbiasing to fit your narrative of scum!me

the town!me narrative is very simple and obvious without you having to twist all these things in your mind for it to make sense. I thought the way the wagons developed around Anya was slimy and made her unlikely to be scum. I wasn't sure of WHO specifically was scum, despite people harrassing me for an answer. I kind of weakly sussed NM at the time which is all you can really do for NM so I was pushing there. Datisi and VPB forced me to compromise on George who I had mixed feelings about so i did.

[innocentvillager]

i thought you were town at the beginning. i think you coming in hot with "IV scum" would've been a really ballsy move after literally doing exactly that as scum in TM LN

i didn't finish this response.

also, there's another general towntell that i used on evaluating your early-mid gameplay that i don't want to reveal.

I can't tell you exact timelines or exact posts/things you did that pinged me, but I think you were starting to drift back into PoE territory at some point. One thing that pinged me was the way you used my Anya defense to go back onto George - again it's town!indicative now but there's still some paranoia that you were bussing a bit.

honestly a lot of it just comes down to "if Luca isn't just completely obvtown he could be scum". you're just not completely obvtown to me yet. you're in the upper half of my PoE for sure but there aren't very many players left in this game who i think can be scum

In TMLN you used a lot of these like, narrativy arguments to justify stances. Like you would say things like "I don't like X because it feels like scum doing Y". I started to see that a little bit here too and I'm more and more aware of it as you're like casing me. I don't know if it's scum!indicative honestly because i haven't played with town!you, modding 2200 doesn't really count because i wasn't trying to read you

[innocentvillager]

Baltar please respond to previous page stuff at you or acknowledge that your statement was incorrect.

[innocentvillager]

I don’t get why I’m still low in your reads, IV

I also find this silly. Luca is obvtown

There is almost no way scum tries that hard in a game like this. The scum play here would be to feed the apathy and inactivity, not try to counteract it

sorry that was really unclear, i mean these things you said and my corresponding responses on that page

[innocentvillager]

i could get behind a luca vote too

I also found this a weird thing to say at the time, given I was pushing IV's biggest SR (Icon) and later IV admitted he didn't dislike or disagree with anything I said, but felt I hadn't obvtowned enough. Why does that justify a vote on me rather than on someone you genuinely SR?

I just feel as though IV has been a bit slimy around me in general this game

like i said im a PoE based player

i don't really do "scumreads scumread each other, omg, my less confident scumread is town"-type pre associative flips, and bussing is a thing too even that aside

i just haven't gotten major townvibes from you yet, ive explained i feel like you should be more obvtown for me for me to feel good about you being town

but i understand that scum!me needs to keep the PoE open too. i will fully acknowledge that scum!me would probably do this as well

[innocentvillager]

I'm short of time atm but just curious about this:

honestly a lot of it just comes down to "if Luca isn't just completely obvtown he could be scum".

As you said you haven't played with Town!me before, so where does this view come from?

various perusings throughout the site

2200, scum!you vs town!Datisi come to mind but ther are probably more

they're also other's peoples recycled takes not just mine

i think i skimmed a couple past games of yours when trying to meta you in LN

[innocentvillager]

Luca Blight - i was townleaning this slot early on but don't really know anymore. he says this game is flat which is why he's not obvtowning but like is it really that bad? maybe it is idk. idk he's kind of more boring this game than i expected town!him to be. scum!him is even more boring, but that scumgame where he snowed town!Datisi looks like less boring so maybe he's just getting better at scum. i legitimately don't hate N_M's Luca is pushing boring slots take here.

oh yeah this was also a thing i said

[innocentvillager]

@Anya can you just confirm that

you thinking George was locktown was a joke, ALL ALONG (or did you actually start find him towny towards EOD1? idc about twilight)

and you thinking im basically locktown is real and there's no trolling going on there?

[innocentvillager]

gypyx i think you should continue trying to evaluate me critically. i think there's more than enough content to read me at this point. i know tonal reads are hard to break down but i think you should think about why you don't like my tone and whether that's actually based on real experience from playing with me or if it's my general playstyle tone you dislike.

what anti associatives between me and Alice are you referring to btw?

[innocentvillager]

i think one reason im having such a hard time getting townreads in this plist is because Datisi and Wooper are dead. im feel like they'd have me as clear town by now. i guess on balance ive been doing weirder and more aggressive things this game than some of my other towngames but it shouldn't be that hard of a read with how little i can do as scum.

[innocentvillager]

ill keep playing self defense if i need to though i guess to survive. just didn't think id need to be doing it this much even well into d2. but what can you do. i make a move (likely correct and protown) and still get scumread for it. that's mafia

[innocentvillager]

NM is cleared

if geraint, VPB are scum ill cry and im just terrible.

Norway is like p towny i guess. d2 has been very meh but i still think some d1 things were likely out of scumrange so on balance i think that matters more

{Luca, Alice, Gypyx, Anya, Ico} both scum like have to be here right? ugh

[innocentvillager]

im past you not townreading me. chill dude. im literally just asking you to followup on that specific thought.

[innocentvillager]

what don't you get?

if i die that is horrendous for the town. i am confirmed town to me. imo more people should be urgent about their own elimination.

i am in literally everyone's PoE rgith now except Anya, how is that not worrisome for someone in my position? im like wagon number 2 rn

my reads on who is scum are a thing as well but my marginal like "X is 1% more likely to be town or scum because of this" probably isn't what's going to win us the game

this is a mindset you've seen town!me be in many times and idk why you can't understand that this is a town mindset

[innocentvillager]

Luca has also complained multiple times that i am not townreading him, lol

he's also not in nearly as much danger of being elimed than me

[innocentvillager]

like ive spent plenty of time scumhunting AND townhunting (also important) this game too

[innocentvillager]

if you're not townreading me by now whatever like i said im past it. it's more about deflecting suspicion off me and responding to bad accusations at me. if i get killed due to PoE it'll be sad but that's more whatever to me because there's not that much i can do about it

[innocentvillager]

What D1 things from Norway were out of scum range?

let me get back to you on this

i had this vague idea in my head but it's probably worth being more concrete.

[innocentvillager]

i want to work with you here Baltar i know we play very differently. im p sure ur town here so let's try and work this out normally like we have multiple times in the past

[innocentvillager]

okay you saw my response luca what do you think?

[innocentvillager]

They kind of have similar points against them around the George wagon, but IV is probably contributing more toward pushing the game forward

fucking lol

the first part is just completely false and the second part doesn't matter. if im scum im scum it doesn't matter what im doing. but we can table this discussion again to a later day.

pedit: lmao sorry didn't realize that.

[innocentvillager]

also @you and @Ico @anyone else what cares, why is Norway town? quoting past posts is fine

Plus town points to IV here.

I was just thinking as I'm catching up from the overnight pages: "Where the hell is Norway? He was very active early on and then faded into the background once the game actually got rolling."

Don’t hit me with this shit.
I’m working a FULL TIME JOB. Dealing with children. I can’t be as active as usual. That does NOT equate scum and i’d rather just let everyone know right away that this is not how to read me in this game.

Nice one IV. Woohoo! *Clap clap*

...Why the hell am i in your "PoE" -,-

i did a quick skim of Norway's ISO and these are the posts i think are maybe out of scumrange

don't expect to convince anyone with this

it's also a lot less than i previously thought. But actually i think like, he might not have individual posts truly out of scumrange (i mean, not that many people do) but the overall vibe I got was, invested in a way that scum wouldn't be? it's really hard to explain. like there were moments during the game i just felt he was towny. and moments i went like "why am I townleaning him again?"

[innocentvillager]

What D1 things from Norway were out of scum range?

let me get back to you on this

i had this vague idea in my head but it's probably worth being more concrete.

that was re: this.

sorry Norway you might be back in my PoE just my upper half lol.

i think i may have been sheeping other people too subconsciously when evaluating you. you were kind of a universal townread and i couldn't quite grasp it so i thought maybe there was something i was missing about you

[innocentvillager]

because we know GeorgeBailey, the second highest wagon at the time and probably the compromise to Anya, is SCUM now

if they're both town it's not a bad spot for scum!me to whiteknight

[innocentvillager]

ive come around to people not townreading me for WKing Anya and waffling around the George compromise wagon. That's fine, i think the arguments are poor since imo costs outweigh benefits of my play everytime as scum but I can see how you'd argue it.

i really dislike getting flat out scumread for it. I just think it is frankly ridiculous to get scumread for something that clearly ended up being protown. Even if Anya is scum it wasn't detrimental to town

[innocentvillager]

because we know GeorgeBailey, the second highest wagon at the time and probably the compromise to Anya, is SCUM now

if they're both town it's not a bad spot for scum!me to whiteknight

believe it or not i didn't know GEorgeBailey was going to flip scum at the time. most people in this game are town, so someone being scum generally isn't my default assumption.

and i said that line very early on too, before i actually starting WKing her. so yes context matters

[innocentvillager]

okay just spewing some thoughts on Ico because like, he's probably going to die:

i think Ico this game has been very lackluster. To me he has basically no presence. I'm aware that timezone differences severely affect this but i'm pretty sure there are people in this game who have interacted with Ico and felt that he had no presence too despite the high post count. When I was playing as scum against him with Datisi in 2175, I felt Ico's presence a lot and I was pretty scared of him at any given point basically. Granted I was scum that game and I'm town here so it feels different, but i really cannot recall seeing a town!ico game where he was low presence. He was kind of low presence as scum in 2180 as well.

Ico doesn't really care about this game, regardless of his alignment. If he's scum, he's probably just accepted he's going to lose this game; even if his partner is deepwolfed like geraint or Baltar he probably can't rest too easy. I think it makes sense for him to be scum playing lackluster here.

People have mentioned that he can be more engaged as scum and try to power control the town. That's a possibility but like it's not the only way to play scum. Idk this point actually gives me a little pause on Ico but i can also see him just changing his playstyle for this game since people are fresh from the other one/not caring as much in general

I think the way he sheeped the popular opinions on Anya and George at the time was kind of slimy. He helped the Anya wagon get higher than the GeorgeBailey wagon initially and when Anya started tonwtelling a little and people started shifting over to George, he did the same. Granted it could be a coincidence because a lot of those happened when he's just not online, but it's still scum!indicative overall i think. That's one reason i think my actions and Ico's actions around the wagon are just simply not comparable - i took initiative as the first person to save Anya, while he just sheeped (coincidentally or not) the consensus takes at the time.

im not saying this can't come from town!Ico, there is a world where it can imo? just that on balance i feel like things are pointing against him, his interactions around George have been very meh, and there aren't too many players who i am seriously considering in my PoE i think. it's going to be a tough game i think if Iconeum flips town but i think we should see this flip.

sorry if you're town, ico

[innocentvillager]

sorry it be like that luca :/

2200, 21xx with town!Datisi still

you should play with scum!me sometime. i think you'd be surprised at how little i am capable of as scum especially as the days go on. im genuinely trying to work on it but Anya can tell you how much i hated posting in that scum game i had

[innocentvillager]

because we know GeorgeBailey, the second highest wagon at the time and probably the compromise to Anya, is SCUM now

if they're both town it's not a bad spot for scum!me to whiteknight

It looked for a long time that the Anya lim would just go through regardless as there wasn't much of a push elsewhere. Like you defended Anya, but didn't push anywhere else until you were pretty much forced to, and your first choice happened to be Not_Mafia rather than George even though George had been objectively scummy imo

I believe Baltar said earlier it would be a risky but potentially rewarding play as scum and I kind of agree. When I was scum against Datisi I pushed my inactive partner's wagon D1 and WK'd the inactive townie who was a competing wagon. In the end the townie happened to be limmed and this really helped me win the game as scum as in ELO Datisi was like 'why would Luca bus his partner so unnecessarily D1'.

i understand that this is a possible scum!narrative for me, and that's why im fine with people not townreading me for it

like im taking a massive risk praying that we get the misflip on Anya d1 while hoping that GeorgeBailey flips later making me look good

it's still a big stretch to say that my behavior is explicitly scum!indicative especially when i have literally done these things as town? and probably never have done something this crazy as scum? even without the meta aspect if you hate that wifomy stuff.

idk, i feel like i was screaming loud enough that someone was potentially going to listen to me about Anya. im not sure what happened in your game though, it seems like you feel the situation was similar to this one and that's why it looks suspicious to you. I'm surprised you didn't make this more clear earlier, because now the suspicion on me actually makes more sense

[innocentvillager]

I thought the way the wagons developed around Anya was slimy and made her unlikely to be scum.

This is news to me?

I thought the only reason you TR Anya was based on her claim. Why did you think the way the wagon developed was slimy? I remember you supporting said wagon before her claim

Apologies if you've already explained this but I don't recall you doing so

wait what.

yes the claim was one thing but this was literally all i was yelling about on D1. im pretty sure i repeated it like at least 3 times. just skim the part where I start WKing her

[innocentvillager]

think the win vector for scum!Norway is

miselim geraint
NK Alice/NM
miselim Gypyx
NK Alice/NM
ff4 Luca, Norway, VPB, Anya (cleared)
miselim Luca?

idk... hmmm

well, at least this was right lol

ggwp scumteam