Mini Normal 2223 | Town Wins!

[MathBlade]

Hey awesome people catching up now. Should be a quick skim!

[MathBlade]

I'm mason

urge to make a dad joke

Serious question: What dad joke?

Word wolf warning: I am known for some of the cringiest of dad jokes so spare no expense.

[MathBlade]

VOTE: Titus

Serial killer hero solve.

Why are you hunting 3P?

[MathBlade]

I'm mason

urge to make a dad joke

Serious question: What dad joke?

Word of warning: I am known for some of the cringiest of dad jokes so spare no expense.

Lmao edit by way of post. When you play so much mafia typos of olf become wolf.

[MathBlade]

Spoiler: Big post

Is Not_Mafia trolling or what?

VOTE: omo for being the only other one not to confirm.

VOTE: MaxTheFox
This is a nervous scumclaim right here

Hi guys!

VOTE: Saudade

*Visibly overreacting*

*Visibly ignoring*

NM, Salsa, and Saudade are also town. Manatee is another potential mafia.

Faria is town. I agree with the confused emoji here. Wish it was tinier though because phone posting.

[MathBlade]

Kyo you specifically posted [redacted] which is part of why I think you're full of crap.

I cant post anything specific about an ongoing game. If you're town you can figure it out for yourself.

Then if we can’t talk about an ongoing game it shouldn’t be alluded to. Is there another way to imply what you mean without skirting rules?

[MathBlade]

Hi I'm a miller

Would you happen to be...Informed?

informed of DN

A Death Neighborizer!?

Deez Nuts

Can you please not make bodily function jokes?
I am a trans guy and this is triggering for me.

[MathBlade]

Hi I'm a miller

Would you happen to be...Informed?

informed of DN

What is DN?

Oh no.

I'm not sure what DN is but why do I feel a sinking feeling shit's going sideways?

A Death Neighborizer!?

Deez Nuts

But yeah it feels like RVS is going on a bit too long.

Agreed.

VOTE: Titus

Town Titus wants out of RVS ASAP. Not seeing that here.

[MathBlade]

general consensus seems to be a dislike of their entry which i think is pretty nai

translation: stop wagoning my partner for wrong reasons

Hero solve: Max + Manatee + Marci

How serious is this?

Didn't get an answer to this.

{Looker, Roden, ???}

Kinda feeling Looker Titus +1 here. Maybe Roden for the 3P.

[MathBlade]

Titus I need some

hot opinions

Damn I am feeling this and getting my stare of death ready

[MathBlade]

Weird bc I've been doing more discussion than you have. Sounds like youre your own obstacle to getting into discussion and you're projecting that onto me

Also what you claim isnt proof that is my intent nor does your analysis look at intent. Happy to dunk you if you keep this up.

What discussion have you been doing until page 10? Most of your posts up to that point were, as I said, question-dodges. What town intent could this possibly have? But honestly it's early and I'm not locking onto you yet. Do better.

Reads:

TOWN BIN

MaxTheFox - I'm town.
Salsabil - good tone and trying to solve the game early = town in my eyes.

TOWN LEAN

Saudade - at first I didn't like their tone but I don't really see scum being likely to be so nonchalant, if that's the right word.
Manatee - gut read. Trust me on this.
Not_Mafia - yes he is a troll but at the same time it looks like he's actually contributing and trying to solve. Unlike the other Miltank avatar in the game...

NULL

Everyone else, expect another list later in day 1 when there is more content.

SCUM LEAN

omo - trolled in an useless way, dodged questions, picked up the slack in the last page which is why I'm not binning them as scum,
DGB (Looker) - another gut read. I'll let DGB post before voting them though.

SCUM BIN

Nobody yet.

Quote the posts you think are best indicative of me being scummy.

Left off here. Critical role night tonight. Will read up during Critical Role but won’t be rapid responding.

[MathBlade]

Manateegal is also scum ty for making that obvious

i think ur just susing anyone who votes u and thats kinda weird

I'm mason

urge to make a dad joke

Serious question: What dad joke?

Word wolf warning: I am known for some of the cringiest of dad jokes so spare no expense.

its prob obvious wht its was gonna be, im like the worst at dad jokes its not even funny

Kinda disappointed.

Was hoping to lock town you depending on the joke to see if it matched your vibe. You not telling it after telling you it’s okay to be cringey is pretty sus but the rest of your posting is okay.

Null with the lightest of scum leans here.

[MathBlade]

What dad joke?

When does a joke become a dad joke?

Spoiler:

When it becomes apparent.

Heheheheh.

Gonna produce some content?

Also Roden’s post sucks. FoS’s can be on more players than scum. It’s also possible there’s four scum we don’t know

VOTE: Roden

[MathBlade]

VOTE: Titus

Serial killer hero solve.

Why are you hunting 3P?

Serial killers are not allowed in Mini normals.

Welcome!

Rip. I keep forgetting SK’s got removed from normals.

[MathBlade]

Except based on context it's very clearly who I'm scum reading.

I don't even remember why you voted me so I don't know. They probably weren't good reasons if I had to bet based on our conversations.

That's the issue then. You can't just scum read everyone who votes in a way you don't like. By your logic, there should be at least four scum in the game, and you've played long to know that just isn't true. You should know better than that by now

I feel like you just aren't understanding my posts if you still think I scumread people solely for voting where I don't like.

You keep saying this but you've refused to clarify or explain any of your reads for the past few pages now. I've even asked you to but you've ignored my requests.

What dad joke?

When does a joke become a dad joke?

Spoiler:

When it becomes apparent.

Heheheheh.

Gonna produce some content?

Also Roden’s post sucks. FoS’s can be on more players than scum. It’s also possible there’s four scum we don’t know

VOTE: Roden

Terrible vote and reasoning. Thanks for claiming scum.

Ooh yay! Just “terrible” no explanation. If I had claimed scum you’d be able to explain it. This reeks of OMGUS. You seem like a really experienced newbie and I can’t place why.

[MathBlade]

VOTE: Titus

Serial killer hero solve.

Why are you hunting 3P?

You're literally reading RVS. This can't be a genuine question...

It was. I am an old foagie who plays games from time to time and I keep forgetting normals changed. I like replacing in and reading RVS and poking at tone and seeing initial thoughts and seeing how they vibe. Scum have a hard time being emotionally and logically consistent. They’re usually one or the other.

[MathBlade]

TOWN READS

Kyouko- Probably the closest we have to obvtown.

DGB- Looker spewed town before they replaced in.

TOWN LEANS

Not_Mafia- He's been inactive the past couple days but he was actually trying to solve early on.

Titus- She's not trying too hard to look town, she's actively trying to gain information, and her responses feel genuine.

Salsabil- She only has one read that I disagree with, which actually helps make me think her reads are authentic and not just following general consensus.

NULL

OMO and Saudade (not Math)- Both are Null for the same reason. Both have been fairly chaotic, which helps generate content, but they're not doing a whole lot of actual solving themselves.

Geraintm- Not much content to look at. He's done this as town before but it's ultimately NAI.

Dwlee- Idk why they're making such a conscious effort to look scummy. It makes me think possibly just confused town, but they've played long enough to know better.

SCUM LEANS

ManateeDude- I feel like she has scum equity with Max and Marci after we had our back and forth. She occasionally gives town vibes with her posts though, so not a definite scum read.

Math (not Saudade)- Terrible entrance, terrible vote, and fake sounding questions all make him sound incredibly scummy in a short amount of time. Combined with my read on Saudade, this slot doesnt feel good at all to me.

SCUM READS

Marci- Same reason I suspect her that I do Manatee. However, I feel like Marci more blatantly tried to distance herself. Possibly scum trying to associate herself with a town!Manatee in order to build fake scum equity. Also don't think Marci has been doing much solving or scum hunting, mainly just chatting with everyone and being friendly.

Max- The root of most of my scum reads. She took a lot of heat early on then laid low ever since. Posts occasionally to avoid prod dodge accusations, but she isn't really doing anything. Most likely just trying to avoid attention, to the point it's becoming obvious.

All things considered, I'm interested in voting out either Marci or Max unless someone can come up with a compelling enough case for somebody else.

Look! I am town! Look at this readwall! I am so town! This is me “solving”

Read walls don’t help solve. You think Max and Marci are scum? Push them. Say why they are scum. Repeat it.

Spreading a wide net like this without following anything is really fake.

[MathBlade]

Spoiler: The wordy words

I'm down for town reading Kyouko, if only because her reasoning for scum reading me is so bad I don't think scum would try it.

do u usually play like this..?

Like what? Her accusation is completely unreasonable. Let alone hypocritical since she hasn't commented on everything either.

Let me take you through the reasoning again since you seem to not follow, based on you a) saying my read is unreasonable and b) calling my read hypocritical.

1. Roden's ISO up to 172 seems content to participate in RVS.
2. Roden, in 172, complains that RVS is going on too long. Conclusion: Roden wants to move the game out of RVS. Up to this point, the thought process tracks. You

were

fine to participate in RVS, but now you are tiring of it.
3. In 173, immediately afterward, you ask omo how serious their hero solve is. In good faith, this can be seen as an attempt to get the conversation moving

away

from RVS. To this point, your purported stance on RVS and your actions still track with one another.
4. Things of interest that could be commented on occur while you are offline

Spoiler: The things that happened, raw quotes, no context

Is Not_Mafia trolling or what?

VOTE: omo for being the only other one not to confirm.

VOTE: MaxTheFox
This is a nervous scumclaim right here

In what way is it a scumclaim? I think I'm keeping the vote then...

In what way isn't it?

on a serious note i dont like lookers passivity in regards to being asked about voting

I think Looker's behavior is pretty town indicative in thought process, if very chaotic in nature.

Mention the post(s) you find town indicative please.

Which ones are scum indicative?

on a serious note i dont like lookers passivity in regards to being asked about voting

I think Looker's behavior is pretty town indicative in thought process, if very chaotic in nature.

Mention the post(s) you find town indicative please.

Which ones are scum indicative?

This isn't the answer of my question and their posts are either NAI or fluff so far.

UNVOTE: geraintm

VOTE: OMO

Is Not_Mafia trolling or what?

VOTE: omo for being the only other one not to confirm.

VOTE: MaxTheFox
This is a nervous scumclaim right here

In what way is it a scumclaim? I think I'm keeping the vote then...

In what way isn't it?

The burden of proof is on you, you accused me first.

omo is either scum or just trying to cause chaos. None of their posts make much sense as town, they're either baseless accusations or dodging questions.

omo is either scum or just trying to cause chaos. None of their posts make much sense as town, they're either baseless accusations or dodging questions.

Yes I am causing chaos. Why is that scummy?

omo is either scum or just trying to cause chaos. None of their posts make much sense as town, they're either baseless accusations or dodging questions.

Yes I am causing chaos. Why is that scummy?

It's scummy because it gets in the way of town's discussion. Especially since RVS is pretty much over.

And answer my question, with how you're dodging people's questions I'm happy to lock my vote onto you.

Weird bc I've been doing more discussion than you have. Sounds like youre your own obstacle to getting into discussion and you're projecting that onto me

Also what you claim isnt proof that is my intent nor does your analysis look at intent. Happy to dunk you if you keep this up.

Also VOTE: Marcistar masons unite on this

spoilered image removed from quote by ssbm_Kyouko

I want to change my vote, who should I vote and why?

vote whoever.
im voting looker because i felt like the whole "waiting on max" thing was just them making excuses to not post. and my vote kept, because i don't really like his posting following manatees questioning them.

omo is either scum or just trying to cause chaos. None of their posts make much sense as town, they're either baseless accusations or dodging questions.

don't think what they've been doing is really scummy rn, the game was not really serious and they seem to have been trying to drive it into serious zone.

Max has reacted alright to the few votes thrown at him actually

[color=8040FF]I want to change my vote, who should I vote and why?[/color]

hate this post.
+1 on my scum index

Also, VOTE: owo - she's pocketing Not_Mafia, and her and marcistar are being cliquey. Fight the power. End the oppressive regime.

looker looking like a good policy lim on top of the fact i dont really dont TR them at all

Don't like how quickly Saudade has let go of his hate boner

Why are Women voting Titus? Is she a misogynist?

tbh, i remember reading the vote count.. and i was just confused who women was because i dont remember there being someone named that.. am i remembering wrong?

Also, VOTE: owo - she's pocketing Not_Mafia, and her and marcistar are being cliquey. Fight the power. End the oppressive regime.

I confused owo with Manatee - it's all pink and blue

"cliquey" are u saying thats scummy..? whats making you want to use that to go after her instead of me..?
and, if ur confusing owo with manatee, why did u not switch onto manatee once u realized this mistake?

5. In 218, when you return, your immediate post is "Didn't get an answer to this." Your question was directed at omo, and if you had read to know he didnt answer you, you would have also seen he was husy engaging with one of the scumreads in his hero solve. A more appropriate follow up for town that was tring to sort omo would be to comment on his interaction with Max, or follow up with a question asking him to explain his read on Marci or Manatee, as it seems clear that he is serious about Max, and by extension, should be serious about the others.

In my opinion, you should have been commenting on the action from 4. 218 is the kind of post that scum makes to give the appearance they are genuinely scumhunting: "look everyone, when he didn't answer my question, I didnt forget about it. Call me town because I'm following through with this" - I used to do this as scum all the time. I would re-iso myself constantly and make sure everyone had answered my questions and if they had not, I would get loud about it. Because a lot of people will form scumreads because "this person is asking questions but isn't drawing meaningful conclusions", or "... but doesn't seem to care when they go unanswered"

There is the reasoning.

a) My read on you is not unreasonable.
b) The basis of my read is that you did not comment on things that could take the game out of RVS when you purport to be tiring of it. There is nothing hypocritical about my read, because I did not say I was tiring of RVS (though I was, and was having difficulty forming reads), and am bringing something that gets the ball rolling instead of doing very little about it and trying to make it look like I am doing more than I am.

To say my read is hypocritical is to show that you are not trying to understand my thought process. If you had tried to understand it, you would have known what my issue with you was, and you would not accuse me of being hypocritical. It shows you are thinking at a shallow level by reducing my read on you to "Roden didnt comment on everything so he is scum" and trying to flip that reduction around on me and call me hypocritical for not commenting on everything.

Conciseness is a gift please. There’s like a happy middle ground somewhere. Gonna need to see if you do PBPA as scum but I am okay townbinning you for today.

[MathBlade]

did you know that orthogonal states of the spin half quantum sub space are 180 degrees instead of your conventional 90

I'd love to see the mathematical proof of this

NOT

This is word salad anyway.

[MathBlade]

VOTE: Manatee

sorry kyouko i think roden prob town here

Okay, saudade, manatee are 2 town down I think. I was ready to vote manatee earlier too. Are scum not posting? Dwlee/Titus/?

? Could be max but i was in both her previous games and i can say with certainty that entrance is nai.

VOTE: titus

I am kinda love hate this vote. Not sure if I should say more.

[MathBlade]

responding prematurely and snarkily to a single scumread meets my definition of "too defensive"

Why haven't you accused Marci then? She got accused multiple times and just responded with GIFs. She even admitted she doesn't feel like responding to them, which is honestly worse than getting defensive. Not even IMO, just objectively that is worse to ignore accusations and drown them out with memes.

yea i just think its suuuper weird with how u responded to the push given at the time of that post you had like 3-4 votes on you at that point

your response to the scumread on you is overly worried and i feel it echoes someone elses statement abt u possibly feeling "scumread for the wrong reason"

Worried how? You literally just said my response was premature and snarky. But now I waited until I was getting wagon'd and got overly worried? This is a pretty blatant contradiction.

to be fair there hasn't been a single obvtown in this game so far and that's a bit worrying

Looker slot kind of. But not really for the right reasons. You're feeling very townie too though I wouldn't call you obvtown.

VOTE: omo
i like this more and more

i dont really want to vote roden rn esp considering the weird "i'll claim now" post that i'll need to revisit now

You gave up on me really quickly.

There's not a lot to read into with my claim post. It's pretty obvious scum bait because only scum has reason to encourage me to claim. I also just don't want to waste time building up a wagon just to dissolve it a couple IRL days from now, we're better off just scum hunting.

I hate this post. It reeks of things I have done as scum. It feels like you’re a scum me. I can’t explain it but you are pinging me hard.

[MathBlade]

++town points for Titus for engaging now in comparison to dwlee who feels pretty frozen

I will say she doesn’t dive deeper but I want to see her interact with more slots.

[MathBlade]

I'm giving myself 3 days to read Titus.

why only titus?
you could do the same with me!

DGB, Titus, and I just finished a game where I was scum and DGB got hammered in elo by Titus. So there’s apparently been some vibing here using that to sort each other.

I think DGB town and even though this isn’t a Titus post I think this makes her possibly town. She’s more like null town not in my elim pile.

[MathBlade]

I dont think lynching the weakest players d1 in every game you play is how you're going to win games boys

Actually, that's the new site meta and it works out pretty well.

Second, why were you voting LHF (which I was at the time) if you were not looking for the weakest player?

It’s a good way to kill a site.
If you’re town you should lift up bad town and eliminate scum.
Our job is to elim scum.

It may get results in the short term but in the long term non friends will always seem weaker than friends so you don’t expand.

[MathBlade]

Just to be clear, at this stage of the game you honestly think that you're having a good town game so far and thus me suspecting you as scum IMMIDEADLY leads to me being scum? what kind of thought process is that

No. I think your vapid, empty, and opportunistic push makes you possible scum.

I don't know if I am having a good town game or not yet. That's results driven.

saudade titus interaction TvT i wanna say

Seconded.
Then again biased as I am Saud and I know I am town and I don’t think scum Titus entertains the toxicity Saud was doing.

[MathBlade]

i actually think nm is town this time around

Why?

I don’t remember a single post of his?

[MathBlade]

Saudade town read dropping dramatically in just two pages. Didn't expect that.

its a lot harder to townread someone being an asshole

Yeahhhh...

Kinda wondering if this is gonna be a game where town cannibalizes itself Days 1 and 2 while scum just lays low for free.

First post I have vibed with you on. You might be town after all.

VOTE: Unvote

[MathBlade]

Kyo you specifically posted [redacted] which is part of why I think you're full of crap.

I cant post anything specific about an ongoing game. If you're town you can figure it out for yourself.

Then if we can’t talk about an ongoing game it shouldn’t be alluded to. Is there another way to imply what you mean without skirting rules?

I said directly what I mean. I thought dwlee was lying about their eyes glazing over, like making up an excuse for why they're not very involved right now.

I'm not going to lie about being diagnosed with inattentiveness for mafia. If you think I'm scum whatever but that reason is absolutely awful.

I don't think you're lying about a diagnosis, but I do think you're not as in the game as you would be if you were town

Got it. I misunderstood. I was thinking you/Dwlee were talking about ongoing. I missed the context in the speed read. Dwlee in my opinion is not a good liar. I think that pushing them over RL if they are scum is the wrong way to go about it. Dwlee scum I think if you make them talk they will scumfirm or townfirm themselves but they’re a teapot read.

[MathBlade]

i dont much like rodens posting either math but i think hes in the right kind of mindset. how do u feel abt the way hes approaching the game?

I don’t really see how he’s approaching it except the post I vibed with him on. I would like to see more offense and less defense from him.

Right now it doesn’t seem like we’re [town] communicating but we’re all just saying reads and need to collaborate somehow.

[MathBlade]

Saudade town read dropping dramatically in just two pages. Didn't expect that.

No he's just an pillion. An pillion with town vibes tho. I can't quite explain it.

Wait he got replaced? I didn't catch up yet. Welcome Math!

Welcome. I am Saud 2.0.

Post something spicy please.

[MathBlade]

Fairy godmother I am wish for reads from you. I understand your mojo hasn’t fired enough to cast a spell but would love it if maybe through talking you can find your mojo.

Not sure what you mean by meanest child

[MathBlade]

Just... No lim? Huh?

But if we NL day 1 then we wouldn't have much info day 2 aside from the NK flip (who will be a townie) and any investigatives that decide to come out. And barring a good vig shot, we have no chance to kill mafia until day 2 in that case.

This. Plus we also then go to evens. Evens is much better for scum as it gives them a mylo kill most of the time.

[MathBlade]

Just... No lim? Huh?

But if we NL day 1 then we wouldn't have much info day 2 aside from the NK flip (who will be a townie) and any investigatives that decide to come out. And barring a good vig shot, we have no chance to kill mafia until day 2 in that case.

This. Plus we also then go to evens. Evens is much better for scum as it gives them a melo kill most of the time.

Edit by way of post. Sorry for accidental old abbreviation

[MathBlade]

Oh, ialways advocate no eliminatiom day 1. I believe we are much more likely to eliminate town than scum day 1, so why give them a free elim

This is actually a bad idea mechanically.

Assume we elim town 80% of the time D1 Scum 15% and no elim 5% (These numbers are pulled from my butt don’t quote me on them)

Assume the statistically likely 3 scum (it makes the argument easier to understand while we don’t know this it’s pretty likely)

Assume no vig either for simplicity

D1 is 10v3
8v3
6v3
4v3 on D4 worst case scenario

Contrast with no elim D1 you get
10v3
9v3
7v3
5v3 D4 on worst case scenario melo >> SOP is no elim here.
4v3

You’re looking at just two chances to hit scum before melo not three.
A wrong elim is almost certainly better than a no elim not just for info but because we don’t give scum a free Townie kill.

[MathBlade]

Instead of “hit” vs “miss” good play is more like building a block and filtration system.
The more we build and communicate and hone our filter the more likely we are to hit scum.
If we get rid of the scummiest (yes doesn’t always correspond to scum) now then elo becomes harder

It’s what town did not do in my recent scum game. Instead they went after PRs for mechanical reasons (and other reasons) after I poisoned the well. Galron who was by all accounts a lurker, same with Wheme both made it to elo. This should never happen even if both were town.

[MathBlade]

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=87020

Here is a link to it.

For all intents and purposes Town should have won that game
It was odd night cop, even night rolecop, full doctor, two town neighbors
Vs
1 shot strongman, 1shot redirect, one shot flavor and doctor + informed that the two cop roles of some kind exist

Neighbors didn’t utilize hood that well
If town communicates no way we woulda won that game
Town was continually shooting itself in the foot

Don’t let perfection get in the way of “good”

[MathBlade]

Instead of “hit” vs “miss” good play is more like building a block and filtration system.
The more we build and communicate and hone our filter the more likely we are to hit scum.
If we don’t get rid of the scummiest (yes doesn’t always correspond to scum) now then elo becomes harder

It’s what town did not do in my recent scum game. Instead they went after PRs for mechanical reasons (and other reasons) after I poisoned the well. Galron who was by all accounts a lurker, same with Wheme both made it to elo. This should never happen even if both were town.

Ebwop sorry merger thoughts

[MathBlade]

I looked at that game @mathblade and I'm very confused why the claimed cop that guiltied nom was eliminated in ELO.

Power imbalance and DGB has a scum history of fake claiming cop.

I was shading it because I thought it would have to be VT for balance reasons (I expected a vig) and forgot about its odd crumb.

Scum like Titus have fake claimed cop so it was a if I had to drag her to elo thing but it was never the plan. When I am scum Titus town elos suck because she usually plays them right

[MathBlade]

I looked at that game @mathblade and I'm very confused why the claimed cop that guiltied nom was eliminated in ELO.

Power imbalance and DGB has a scum history of fake claiming cop.

I was shading it because I thought it would have to be VT for balance reasons (I expected a vig) and forgot about its odd crumb.

Scum like Titus have fake claimed cop so it was a if I had to drag her to elo thing but it was never the plan. When I am scum Titus town elos suck because she usually plays them right

Scum smart players like Titus*

I swear I can type lol

[MathBlade]

Aww Dwlee am I aligned with the mod then? *begs for a read*

[MathBlade]

How do you feel about a policy geraintm or Not Mafia?

Why is Not Mafia so high despite like no posts?

[MathBlade]

Oh you weren't on the vote count so I missed you. Felt like my list was too short

Salsa, omo
Kyo, DGB
NM, Marci, Max, Math
Roden
Geraintm
Titus
Manateegal

Geraintm is your null pile?

Do you think there’s two scum?

[MathBlade]

Then prove it with me

VOTE: geraintm

If geraintm actually believed in no elim D1 they wouldn’t be voting or they’d be tunneling faria a lot more as like everyone townreads them.

[MathBlade]

Yup.

I ask people to “prove” where they stand based on things to see if they are consistent. Votes is a way to do that. Sometimes I use questions.

We have right around 2 days until end of day and I have to start work in a moment.
Right now, you’re the top runner for elimination so testing you and your words is my priority.
If you don’t try to lead a wagon around someone pretty fast odds are you’ll be the flip.

So if you’re town it’s in your best interest to case someone or be as active as possible to find a probable scum and convince the rest of us they’re scum or to do something.

I do think you’re a teapot read and if you just do it I think you’re sortable.

[MathBlade]

A teapot read is one that boils overtime when put under heat. Eventually the flavor of the person will be known. Players like you and flea are that way to me.

Then case her.

[MathBlade]

Oh you weren't on the vote count so I missed you. Felt like my list was too short

Salsa, omo
Kyo, DGB
NM, Marci, Max, Math
Roden
Geraintm
Titus
Manateegal

Don't know what to say.... The people I'm scumreading are townreading me
Seems like

OMO

or you will not be eliminated today, I'll not vote

Math

and

ssbm

, don't want to vote

Titus

and

Manatee

because they don't ping me as scums yet.
Also don't understand your

Titus

scumread, can you give me a case?

Not feeling well, don't want to do any work atm

Can you please not use tiny text?

It’s hard to see when I try to speed read during a work break and I am old with glasses.

[MathBlade]

I would rather you just not tbh.

Sometimes a meaningless quip is very alignment indicative even if the author doesn’t think so.

[MathBlade]

I would rather you just not tbh.

Sometimes a meaningless quip is very alignment indicative even if the author doesn’t think so.

Reporting for duty! Buzzkill for player equality so those who are wired differently can succeed!

[MathBlade]

Titus is actually more likely scum than manatee I think so if people are down for a flash wagon

Hmmmm.....
Fine, will sheep you this time, if anyone from

Titus

and

Manatee

will flip green, you're red... deal?

UNVOTE: OMO

VOTE: Titus

I don’t like this post at all.

Townread downgraded.

If you’re town it assumes arrogance your reads are right. If you’re scum it sets up a dichotomy that may be hurtful to town. See an example of where I do this with the PR claims. It poisons the well so people naturally look at only those players. It’s a very subtle form of manipulation.

[MathBlade]

VOTE: omo

dwlee i cant figure out why u TR them

I can definitely sheep this given Owo’s push of Titus before her claim and lack of vote.

For all the sussing of Titus she had very few votes IIRC probably looking for a Titus susser, nonvoter

VOTE: Owo

[MathBlade]

Limited access today and tomorrow but I still will check in.

Interview (possibly) today and DnD tomorrow.

Good luck! I hope you get it!

[MathBlade]

yea im inclined to agree w u here im not much a fan of salsa but i think theyre a better elim later rather then sooner as they tend to interact w a lot of players and i think theres more we can get out of them either way

Interaction count is a bad parameter for delaying a push/elim.

[MathBlade]

Math are you really about to treat Titus as conftown?

I am treating her as not worth an elim today.

If she’s scum more flies with honey than vinegar.

So for all intents and purposes she’s more than likely town as I don’t think scum Titus claims then disappears.

That’s not her MO

[MathBlade]

(Personal opinion before anyone goes “But that’s not true recently because of some edge case”)Titus is a player who relies on vibes and making other people do work for her as scum. She loves the thrill of scum and the control.

Her being AFK is NAI but how she did it I don’t find scum indicative and I find that it’s more likely that she was pushed to it.

Pedit:
If Titus is around tomorrow then whoever is around can push her.

The only reason to push her here with that claim is if you think she is more than likely scum than any other possible consolidation person because we need to come together. I don’t see that here

Assume Titus town >> Nothing learned and we did scum’s job for them and we are back to the same whoever didn’t vote Titus
Assume Titus scum >> Yay! We got one but with all the Titus sussing we would probably still find scum in the sussing non voters and voters are more likely (but not always) town because D1 bus is rare early.

So it’s more advantageous to play today assuming she is town and have scum help us sort and if she is around tomorrow pick her brain.

[MathBlade]

Oh and then she was like "oh let's consolidate here" with again no real thoughts on me. Titus is just evil here.

I also dislike dwlee and give them a scum point. It was clear Titus had some role and they were pushing their elimination.

Salsabil 3
Dwlee 1

I thought Titus was talking nonsense as scum tbh. Still babysitter kills it's target if the babysitter dies, right? So Titus is not an option. It's a liability for scum to leave her alive too long as the poe gets smaller and it's more likely she'll hit one of them. Killing her puts us on evens so I think she's a likely target.

I am feeling less sure of scum!dwlee but am not convinced by a salsabil wagon at all.

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... al_version
Correct. This is how it works in a normal setup.

Titus would pretty much turn into a vengeful Townie with results delayed at start if she is town and scum kill her. (This is my primary operating theory)

I kinda want to leave her to her own devices and let her see what she makes of today limited as she is.

[MathBlade]

1.) I'm not voting Titus, I agree don't eliminate her today
2.) You're pushing someone I townread on the assumption that Titus is town, which is bad.
3.) I'm not saying her going V/LA is AI, so I don't know why you're mentioning it.

It was me dwlee who said you were dim for not realising Titus should have been left alone when they were clearly (so clearly even I spotted it) that they had a role.

And not mafia has played with me enough to know if I am not being normal town me.

I'm like a rock

1) Then why keep talking about her with limited time with backhanded shade?
2) You bet I am. I townread her (after an initial scumread) before the claim and the claim doesn’t change it and odds are she’s town, I am willing to make that associative leap. Leaps like those are how I operate.
3) It was implied in your response after the claim sussing her

[MathBlade]

VOTE: manatee
I'm content with a titus lim on the basis that it is outside my confident townreads because i cant read titus but would be a loss if they flipped town for us.

@owo here is where you pushed Titus. It’s a general sus and adds to the “okay if Titus dies” vibe

[MathBlade]

Do you townread manatee here then, Math?

More than you and Dwlee who seem to be the viable elim options.

Gotta head back lunch break is over but we should really be consolidating here folks and someone running an unofficial VC so we can keep up.

[MathBlade]

Thats not pushing. Nice moonlogic

And that absolutely is. It’s a hallmark of good scum play.

Good scum play pushes players emotionally one of those ways is to make them think an elim is likely.

Pushes take a variety of forms.

[MathBlade]

Ok. Does knowing my main account is DkKoba change anything?

Not really because I don’t understand you at all. Your logic is way different than mine. It just tells me you think different that doesn’t help me figure out if you’re scum different or town different.

[MathBlade]

I'm giving myself 3 days to read Titus.

why only titus?
you could do the same with me!

DGB, Titus, and I just finished a game where I was scum and DGB got hammered in elo by Titus. So there’s apparently been some vibing here using that to sort each other.

I think DGB town and even though this isn’t a Titus post I think this makes her possibly town. She’s more like null town not in my elim pile.

For your other question I treat you as a new player I have a work meeting and have to go
I was starting to townread Titus here.

[MathBlade]

And for a new, but good player that is scummy so I am okay voting you of the options.

[MathBlade]

Idk if math is like trying to sublty save manatee by pretending that their push is based on my honesty about how i view titus.

I think that if you want to read me, seriously understand that I in general, do not save people as any alignment. I argue and advocate but I do not “save” people without a mod confirmed inno. As scum I do not “save” buddies and as town I do not “save” townreads I defend them. If my defense fails and they are town then I learn who pushed them and who is likely scum from it depending upon how I push.

Take Warehouse 13 where I was sure DGB was town. I fought for it the entire time. It didn’t work and then I could go back to my PoE which pretty much was Cakez or Titus and got Cakez. There’s this illusion of “good” doesn’t miselim and having to be right that kinda permeates. It’s about stopping the wrong. If scum have no places to hide we are forced to win. I will sacrifice a VT to get a deep wolf.

Mafia is like chess to me and I ask “random” questions in advance and then circle back later and check for consistency and see if their vibe matches expected.

Eg if we have a ton of miselims and the person hasn’t been listened to all game. Are they frustrated? Demoralized? Or are they the same?

If they thought they were poked by a bad question on D1 is that annoyance still there D4?

Are they remembering their stance on a person throughout the game?

Scum don’t generally remember the micro trivialities and care about the now.

By pushing you on your Titus push (yes it was a push you’re not convincing me otherwise) I can check that against your other Koba games and see if you’re playing with a similar mindset.

[MathBlade]

Did y'all miss that omo claimed miller?

was that serious?

It doesn’t matter they did.

If anything it matters less because if a cop exists they can’t be checked. That means they should have enough muster to pass scrutiny. A BBMolla type scum fake claims Miller and uses that as leverage to coast. A negative utility has to claim AND be above reproach.

[MathBlade]

No cow avatars are allowed to be eliminated this game, doctor's orders

Not Mafia and Owo looking spicy. I don’t like how Not Mafia popped in and his only thing was to defend Owo. That’s sus as fuck.

[MathBlade]

UNVOTE:

OmO looking better and dropping town tells.

… Yeah I am really liking Owo scum. This doesn’t feel right at all.

[MathBlade]

Marci, if you're town I really want you to defend yourself. I don't want you mis-elim'd if you're just a passive player, so please make a case for yourself.

I don't mind too much, it shows peoples true colors if theyre attacking one of the easiest targets <3 <3
like really, would it not give juicy info with how people are settling with me and theres no fight back..? (ignoring the one game where i really flopped like a fish within 3hrs), as scum i usually try harder because i dont want to let down my team, so why am i not attacking hard and trying to ensure i live to help my "team"? why as scum would i just be settling down with my elim..?

The biggest thing that's pinged me are your associatives with Max and Manatee, and then the blatant distancing that happened afterward. Something I commented on and that Kyouko noticed too is that it also looked like you were trying to build fake scum equity with Manatee. Your vote on Looker/DGB also doesn't read as town since you've made several accusations and suspected others since then. Why did you never change your vote/why are you so certain about DGB?

"associatives with max" i dont get how thats happened, theyre barely around for me to even attempt to buddy. I see how "associatives with manatee" could be a thing though.
"blatant distancing" i started distancing with manatee after i suddenly didnt like their vote, wow really a big shock how i dont wanna continue buddying someone i dont agree with anymore
but if yall think that distancing can only come from scum honey u got a big storm coming for ya <3
"build fake scum equity" then why havent i been told to stop in maf chat..? its obv leading me into a very bad spot, why would my scumteam just let me continue doing it..? if im scum, its clearly doing more harm than good at this point right..? cuz if im scum and yall are seeing thru it this easily, its not all that helpful towards scum and instead helps town more.

the thing is im not super confident in the looker/drippinggoofball vote, its just the thing that i feel is best out of everyone so i kept it there for so long.
"made several accusations and suspected others" but that didnt make drippinggoofball more townie in my eyes at all? he was my most preferred always, but i cant just ignore chat for hrs and hrs, i was trying to figure out the stepping stone after that <3

they dont post often so they didnt really ease my leftover worries from looker <3

LOL I just replaced.

243 its been a couple days, but nothing eases my worries <3

- -

yall think im scum but, what info would u be getting if i happen to not be

Assuming you’re town then I would start a canvas of the other wagons that have started and dissipated. The fact that none of these wagons have really taken hold makes me think scum are disjointed and not trying to push or there is a deep wolf somewhere in the more vocal players.

(Assuming you’re town)
Of the wagons that have come up so far who do you think could be scum?
If you can’t find any who do you think would be the deep wolf pushing you in that scenario?

[MathBlade]

I'm new to this ordered reads list thing I should probably label them

Skimmed a few posts ahead. Don’t see this. It would be nice if you could.

[MathBlade]

Don't feel great about a Marci lim but will do to get it off.

*facepalms*

Ugh why Titus? That’s like exactly the wrong thing to say here.

I have civ tonight but like fuck.

I know it’s dumb for you to leave a readwall because that gives hints to scum in case you’re shot but like I have civ tonight you’re AFK (assuming you’re town) that’s two town out of likely 10 afk

So this find a scum is really an 8 v 3 then you post this.

Gah.

[MathBlade]

Roden, could I just get a reads list from you rq, I just wanna see where you are at.

Dwlee and Kyouko you too.

I wanna help consolidate today and starting with just listening to people I most townread atp is gonna help

I'm going to trust that my TRs are right and that N_M can read geraint and take him out of the pool for today. Marci, Manatee, Max is my pool right now.

Roden, omo, mathblade, salsa, DGB, all town
Titus off the table
Dwlee unsure, willing to accept he is town for toDay
N_M I dont think I can read him in my first game.with him but he seems town and some other people say that too. Apparently he can read geraintm as well...
So geraintm off the table for toDay, because I think the compromise is not going to happen there.

Leaving Max, Manatee, and Marci. I'd like to lim Max because she seems useless as town and as scum she lurked to the end in my last game with her and won, but I think there is something fishy between Marci and Manatee and I'd really like to go with either of them today. I feel like at least 1 is scum.

Oh, I can't read not mafia day 1 ever. They just come in and act all random. So don't beat yourself over that. But I wanna keep them around as I am 90% sure I don't ever get eliminated in a game where they come out and say I'm town

I can’t read Not Mafia like ever. Trolling is very hard to read to my Aspie brain and that’s kinda his schtick. Because that is I am almost always down to policy elim him but I don’t have a read on him other than his defense of Owo sucked

[MathBlade]

Homie how do you have scum pings on me and not on Marci/Manatee/Math/Roden?

Why me, fry me

Titus I don’t think Dwelee is scum here.

Assume Dwelee scum you town. Dwlee scum would be trying to buddy you because you could vig them if they kill you.
Assume Dwlee town you town. Then Dwlee would have no problems being off the wall weird.

Assume you scum, you’re not going to listen to what I say anyway lol.

[MathBlade]

I will say though that your defense here is actually more reasonable than I expected. I'm just not seeing the town motivation for using scum tactics like buddying and distancing, nor for why you haven't really pushed your biggest scum read.

I can vibe to Roden town. I am starting to see it more.

[MathBlade]

VOTE: Marci

I think I am okay with a Marci elim here.

[MathBlade]

Did y'all miss that omo claimed miller?

was that serious?

It doesn’t matter they did.

If anything it matters less because if a cop exists they can’t be checked. That means they should have enough muster to pass scrutiny. A BBMolla type scum fake claims Miller and uses that as leverage to coast. A negative utility has to claim AND be above reproach.

Oh, am I coasting in your opinion?

No. I am saying that any Miller claim deserves scrutiny because they can’t be checked. No more no less.

[MathBlade]

We have a day and a half left, there's plenty of time.

This is actually false depending on the state of the wagon.

We run the risk of either chunky salsa ping pong and needing a turbo elim depending upon top wagon and what is going on. The closer we get to EoD the more likely we are to elim town simply for the fact of not everyone is online at the same time.

[MathBlade]

Marci can you do a reads list? Claim (if you haven't)

im just a vt, so its not too much of a loss to town

Spoiler:

Not_Mafia -

not too sure

MathBlade -

I had good vibes on saudade (238, 326, 412, and his stuff about u titus seems pretty good) and i have decent vibes on mathblade > i like his like catching up on things alot, though im not really too sure where they stand rn
i think hes just genuinely putting thoughts there, and not just trying to whatevers easiest. so this is prob like townlean

oʍo -

their early game stuff seemed like they were just trying to move stuff forward, the vibes tell me theres nothing with bad intentions there. (463, 464, 853, 854 specifically good vibes, if u want something stronger than just pure vibes ) townread.

Roden -

(222, 294) im not usually used to people throwingaround the term "scum claiming" so easily so these originally felt weird to me, 244 originally to me seemed like he was just doing it cuz it was whats popular, originally i didn't really like him much. As the game went on though, i realized its just I don't vibe well with his playstyle so im not too confident placing a read here. I could see him being anything.

geraintm -

idk

DrippingGoofball -

originally i didn't like looker because it looked like looker was just making excuses, 206 and its correction in 209 was goodish tho.
drippinggoofball really just hasn't done too much, which makes me comfortable with my vote <3 <3 i don't know any meta on them so i cant be like "meta meta, hes town" or anything, so im just keeping at it until i either get what i wanna see or i die x3 <3 (657, 875) i don't see too much of an explanation

Dwlee99 -

535 by itself doesn't seem too weird, but it just stands out alot in their iso. i think thats where they really started like putting their foot into the game..? i also don't like how long they let the mason thing with saudade go on. i like (619, 761), dislike 703 since they dont rlly explain much. generally, his posts look good on quick glance, but i think they could be easily faked as scum.

MaxTheFox -

im not too sure on how to read them. i don't agree with their read on owo, i dont see anything wrong with it though, i think theyre something like a "only time can tell" sorta thing.

Titus -

tbh im not sure what a babysitter is but like ill trust it i think.. though im a bit confused on the timing of ur claim

ssbm_Kyouko -

i think ssbm_kyouko is really good at being a townleader often ^.^ i think theyre townie the vibes are just there. they seem rlly focused on me/manatee so i hope they have a backup plan if things go wrong :'(

ManateeDude -

they do alot of short posts and change votes alot, im not too sure how i feel about her anymore tbh. but like i had a townread here originally, but i just like.. the vote changes feel weird and sometimes like theyre taking opportunities.

Salsabil Faria -

i remember my townread on her felt stronger before, but isoing her doesn't really keep up those same vibes. i would say townie vibes, but keep her between the lower rankings of the townie vibes imo. alot of her posts aren't rlly doing much, and her post count makes it seem like shes in thread more than she actually has been (in my mind at least).
im still traumatized from the exploder game
(so lower ranks of the townie reads for her).

^ theres some ideas of the players, not really good and def not spicy at all tho
man that was kinda alot of work and took a bunch of hrs

Because town has zero motivation to settle and let themselves be elim'd.

Scum may do so to invoke WIFOM, or to make the exact argument you're making. Because yes, why would scum just lay down and die?.

i often do it as town for not so good reasons
but sometimes ill want to do it just so that my townreads dont get picked on.

Thing is, you can't claim you're not fighting back. You've been sprinkling suspicion on others throughout all of Day 1.

wheres me sprinkling suspicion on others..? i prob wasnt doing it to defend myself tho since i remember never really feeling like i needed to defend myself much earlier

Your associative with Max isn't direct but through Manatee. Your statement though implies you checked your ISO to fact check yourself, which is weird since you should just know if you talked much with Max or not.

i dont think i checked my iso at that point, but if i did it was prob cuz i was confused.. i have the worst memory

I will say though that your defense here is actually more reasonable than I expected. I'm just not seeing the town motivation for using scum tactics like buddying and distancing, nor for why you haven't really pushed your biggest scum read.

doesn't really matter too much, but i do buddy often to people who i feel like

have

to be town.. kinda gets me in an awkward spot when i rethink on them tho
dont really know why i do it.

Of the wagons that have come up so far who do you think could be scum?

lowkey don't remember all the wagons, the one i do remember (dwlee) i think could easily flip scum tho.

If you can’t find any who do you think would be the deep wolf pushing you in that scenario?

don't really think much of my wagon is sus (916) but if theres one on there its roden, but i wouldn't be too confident to put the title on him that fast.

Regarding me that’s 100 percent accurate. First day I replace in is pretty scattershot. I am trying to get a vibe check and poke as many people as possible. Not sure I like your response about Titus and not knowing what a baby sitter is when I have linked it and it was a point of discussion.

This seems really kinda passive. Am I the only person getting that vibe?

[MathBlade]

I get a sense she's doing her homework to make sure everything she says checks out, which kinda conflicts with her overall vibe and demeanor that she's putting across. Like, using a lot of emojis and hearts, but then making passive aggressive statements.

im sorry im dumb, is ur point that my emojis and passive aggressive statements clash eachother?

im not sure exactly but i think i become a bit passive aggressive when im frustrated.

i also like lowkey dont think i do homework, but if it looks like it thats fair enough.

It sounds like Roden’s point is more you’re not keeping an accurate memory of what you said so the responses feel constructed and less jovial than the rest of your posts and I get that vibe too.

[MathBlade]

Did y'all miss that omo claimed miller?

was that serious?

It doesn’t matter they did.

If anything it matters less because if a cop exists they can’t be checked. That means they should have enough muster to pass scrutiny. A BBMolla type scum fake claims Miller and uses that as leverage to coast. A negative utility has to claim AND be above reproach.

Oh, am I coasting in your opinion?

No. I am saying that any Miller claim deserves scrutiny because they can’t be checked. No more no less.

So why mention it?

Because Dwlee did as if it should be some kind of “pass” and I believe the opposite.

[MathBlade]

So Koba’s scum or under the weather or something. Last thing anyone does to describe my town game is spot on with emotional things. Mechanics and smart plays sure but emotions being spot on is weird. I don’t like that compliment and it feels like a buddy attempt.

[MathBlade]

I am not floundering so yes? That looks like a buddy attempt. And you can buddy someone in your PoE if you’re scum. It’s actually kinda easy.

And yeah that game I was good. I can pull out town games where I had the emotional awareness of an ant.

You can’t pick and choose a single game to make your point Mixter.

[MathBlade]

feel free to waste your vote for today by parking it on me, I don't care if scum want to waste their time pushing me when I am townread by my townreads.

Votes on Marci and I already did.

[MathBlade]

Owo is a vanity wagon. Much as I would love their elim they aren’t for today.

Koba’s consistency is bad as either alignment and the best way to read them is under pressure and when they are under pressure they get yelly and screamy. While Owo is my top wagon I would love to elim best not today unfortunately because if we try odds are we no elim.

[MathBlade]

Civ break is over bbs

[MathBlade]

VOTE: DGB

TRing everyone on this wagon.

VOTE: DGB

Ditto.

Oh and not sure if anyone saw a recent WWF ad? It’s so cute I just have to share it.



Show love to people <3

[MathBlade]

Hey Titus you saw what I saw I think yeah?

And yes this is vague and no I won’t say more than that.

If no then okay maybe go look later.

[MathBlade]

Lovely /s

Go look later then damn it.

45 and 40 and 41

Not my posts but except maybe one.

This was constructed carefully. Assume no and all typos.

[MathBlade]

[MathBlade]

Wrong but fair and can’t elaborate.

I gotta go probably won’t be on for the rest of the day because I gotta figure out roomie bday present 2.0.

[MathBlade]

I babysat ManateeDude last night. Got work. Will try to post tonight.

Ditto with work.

I have like 0.002% doubt of Titus’s claim and imho she should be treated as conf town even though she is not dead. I think she saw what I was trying to tell her and why Roden probably died. I am not sure how to explain it though without outing really nice snuggly PRs that you bring sugar and spice to.

I think Titus’s babysit was a really good move.

Btw I see what you’re getting at ssbm but as scum I 100% tunnel a certain player for cred here who is pretty much an open PR and force them to claim and then put Titus in a dilemma of if they protect the PR or not.

I had known that this other player was a PR for a while and had been trying not to talk about them.

[MathBlade]

Also im not miller, i dont wanna ruin ppls mech solves. Was just playing around with fakrclaming a non vt pr cuz i always like to do that in games.

Called it.

Always scrutinize freakin Miller claims.

VOTE: omo

Mix policy and scum pings and Roden dead

Pedit lmao no

[MathBlade]

Math buried DGB they were town anyways, math is anti d1 bussing iirc

Slight correction:
As scum (which I am not) don’t bus unless I get something out of it. Very rarely do you get something from bussing a buddy D1.

This makes me think possible Marci+DGB+early voter on DGB to save Marci possibly.

I asked for no fast night to try to make sense of the vote patterns and couldn’t which is indicative of a deep wolf.

[MathBlade]

VOTE: unvote

[MathBlade]

Like unless it’s Marci DGB Koba something is wrong based on vibes

[MathBlade]

If you’re an aspiring Townie who wants other people to consider you being town don’t piss off the person trying to do so on his limited lunch break.

[MathBlade]

Math buried DGB they were town anyways, math is anti d1 bussing iirc

Slight correction:
As scum (which I am not) don’t bus unless I get something out of it. Very rarely do you get something from bussing a buddy D1.

This makes me think possible Marci+DGB+early voter on DGB to save Marci possibly.

I asked for no fast night to try to make sense of the vote patterns and couldn’t which is indicative of a deep wolf.

im confused, what r u thinking here..? do u think i could be scum pr..? why would "to save Marci"?

Correct.

I do not believe ManateeDude is scum. Therefore wagons are start are TvT or SvT between you and ManateeDude.

Ergo scum wagon was swapped from Scum Goon to scum goon which is weird and I don’t see scum doing it
Or scum PR to scum goon scum motivated
Or Town to scum motivated town motivated

Me and Titus are town which makes it more likely the swap was scum motivated unless we had an all town wagon on DGB.

[MathBlade]

I babysat ManateeDude last night. Got work. Will try to post tonight.

Ditto with work.

I have like 0.002% doubt of Titus’s claim and imho she should be treated as conf town even though she is not dead. I think she saw what I was trying to tell her and why Roden probably died. I am not sure how to explain it though without outing really nice snuggly PRs that you bring sugar and spice to.

I think Titus’s babysit was a really good move.

Btw I see what you’re getting at ssbm but as scum I 100% tunnel a certain player for cred here who is pretty much an open PR and force them to claim and then put Titus in a dilemma of if they protect the PR or not.

I had known that this other player was a PR for a while and had been trying not to talk about them.

I'm not sure I agree with Titus's babysit. Not that it's scummy to defend manatee but I would be afraid that i would get shot because a) I'm a claimed babysitter and b) the target I was looking at babysitting was essentially a claimed FN. I would expect scum to shoot me and i wouldn't want to let scum kill 2 PRs with 1 shot.

I guess the idea is if manatee was lying she's scum and if I get shot I take scum with me, but its risky when manatee can clear herself the next morning anyways. If anything, I would wait to babysit manatee until N2, if the person manatee claims to have FNed N1 died N1, or if they FNed a possible buddy like marcistar.

@Titus

, why did you choose to babysit Manatee? What was the thought process?

I'm assuming, but just want to confirm: you are not talking about manatee, right? Just a yes/no answer, I'm not looking for details on

who

you would tunnel.

If I was scum, I would have tunnelled Manatee yesterday as scum here. Since you’re not looking for details I won’t give any.

[MathBlade]

Math buried DGB they were town anyways, math is anti d1 bussing iirc

Slight correction:
As scum (which I am not) don’t bus unless I get something out of it. Very rarely do you get something from bussing a buddy D1.

This makes me think possible Marci+DGB+early voter on DGB to save Marci possibly.

I asked for no fast night to try to make sense of the vote patterns and couldn’t which is indicative of a deep wolf.

im confused, what r u thinking here..? do u think i could be scum pr..? why would "to save Marci"?

Correct.

I do not believe ManateeDude is scum. Therefore wagons are start are TvT or SvT between you and ManateeDude.

Ergo scum wagon was swapped from Scum Goon to scum goon which is weird and I don’t see scum doing it
Or scum PR to scum goon scum motivated
Or Town to scum motivated town motivated

Me and Titus are town which makes it more likely the swap was scum motivated unless we had an all town wagon on DGB.

ah i c i c,
whats making u think it wasn't an all town wagon? just that u think theres deepwolf, or is there something else?

I work from what options exist and what is probable.

An all town wagon is just not the most probable.

My lunch break is over but it’s a vibes thing.

A all town wagon doesn’t just suddenly emerge on two stalled wagons. It feels artificial.

[MathBlade]

I babysat ManateeDude last night. Got work. Will try to post tonight.

Ditto with work.

I have like 0.002% doubt of Titus’s claim and imho she should be treated as conf town even though she is not dead. I think she saw what I was trying to tell her and why Roden probably died. I am not sure how to explain it though without outing really nice snuggly PRs that you bring sugar and spice to.

I think Titus’s babysit was a really good move.

Btw I see what you’re getting at ssbm but as scum I 100% tunnel a certain player for cred here who is pretty much an open PR and force them to claim and then put Titus in a dilemma of if they protect the PR or not.

I had known that this other player was a PR for a while and had been trying not to talk about them.

I'm not sure I agree with Titus's babysit. Not that it's scummy to defend manatee but I would be afraid that i would get shot because a) I'm a claimed babysitter and b) the target I was looking at babysitting was essentially a claimed FN. I would expect scum to shoot me and i wouldn't want to let scum kill 2 PRs with 1 shot.

I guess the idea is if manatee was lying she's scum and if I get shot I take scum with me, but its risky when manatee can clear herself the next morning anyways. If anything, I would wait to babysit manatee until N2, if the person manatee claims to have FNed N1 died N1, or if they FNed a possible buddy like marcistar.

@Titus

, why did you choose to babysit Manatee? What was the thought process?

I'm assuming, but just want to confirm: you are not talking about manatee, right? Just a yes/no answer, I'm not looking for details on

who

you would tunnel.

If I was scum, I would have tunnelled Manatee yesterday as scum here. Since you’re not looking for details I won’t give any.

would you have tunneled them before or after they pleaded to me they could get friendly?

If you look at my weird post to Titus where I tell her to look at post 45 there aren’t 45 pages in the game at that point. This should answer your question best as I safely can I think.

[MathBlade]

@Titus, why did you choose to babysit Manatee? What was the thought process?

Manatee was a widely suspected slot. I wanted it to be alive to correct the beliefs about themselves or worst case he'd die and it would be dispelled. The protect was about the day play. I knew the risk and did it anyway.

i know the dude can be offputting but im a she. im assuming you missed my FN soft?

No. I saw it. I apologize for the pronoun error.

When did you Titus?

[MathBlade]

Wrong but fair and can’t elaborate.

I gotta go probably won’t be on for the rest of the day because I gotta figure out roomie bday present 2.0.

Then why after I asked if you were good to go into night? “Cool for the Summer”

You suggested that I was scum and didn’t care what other people think?

[MathBlade]

Not a reads list no, not really. And that's fair enough, I know we all 3 were voting Titus and I think saudade was first to it, but I dont recall which of us went there first.

4-5 pages is hardly "a couple posts", but what do you think that means for marci?

1139 feels like a start from you at least. Why dont you think omo will flip scum as of your 1106?

Off topic:
I just clocked out and am heading to my personal PC. I was abrupt earlier with some answers because lunch break. I have some questions for you when I get there did you want me to expand further or did you get what you needed?

On topic:
Iirc it was you (will double check in a moment) you were suspicious of Titus’s babysit claim but it makes sense to me. Can you expand on that? I am trying to figure out if Titus’s recent answer unsettled me because she’s scum or it unsettled me because of a misunderstanding in the moment.

[MathBlade]

I promise that will connect back around to the Dwlee convo

[MathBlade]

Not a reads list no, not really. And that's fair enough, I know we all 3 were voting Titus and I think saudade was first to it, but I dont recall which of us went there first.

4-5 pages is hardly "a couple posts", but what do you think that means for marci?

1139 feels like a start from you at least. Why dont you think omo will flip scum as of your 1106?

Off topic:
I just clocked out and am heading to my personal PC. I was abrupt earlier with some answers because lunch break. I have some questions for you when I get there did you want me to expand further or did you get what you needed?

On topic:
Iirc it was you (will double check in a moment) you were suspicious of Titus’s babysit claim but it makes sense to me. Can you expand on that? I am trying to figure out if Titus’s recent answer unsettled me because she’s scum or it unsettled me because of a misunderstanding in the moment.

I did not find what you showed Titus, but I dont want anything more out because i thought it was to do with Manatee, but I think if I didnt find it that it wasn't to do with her so let's leave it alone.

Yes it was me. Do you want me to expand on my suspicion, or what I thought of Titus's answer? Or something else?

Well I kinda have to touch at what I was saying and it does involve Manatee but only what she has already claimed not what I think she likely did.

What I want to ask is if you think her responds with the songs etc make sense in combination with babysitting Manatee or not.

So both? Expand on the suspicion and Titus’s answer.

I want to combine that with some of Dwlee’s responses. I think what they are saying is incongruent and I kinda wanna see what’s what.

[MathBlade]

Dwlee said that they don’t think scum busses here.

That means from Dwlee’s perspective they think scum in G, Faria, omo, Max, Not Mafia

They said they think Omo is town and Max is scum wouldn’t they think the game is almost solved?

Their attitude doesn’t match. It’s more “malaise” like woe is me.

I would expect someone who thinks the game is down to a narrow PoE to be happy.

The game lacks that joy which again points to deep wolf.

Just no idea who or who(s) it would be.

[MathBlade]

Omo just seems like town!omo and I buy the case on Max (and don't think scum bus here) so I think they're town.

Uhm not really?

I don’t get it.

You’re saying scum didn’t bus now you’re saying it’s possible when your tone doesn’t match?

My point about your town should have no bearing on whether or not scum bussed on D1.

[MathBlade]

Omo just seems like town!omo and I buy the case on Max (and don't think scum bus here) so I think they're town.

Uhm not really?

I don’t get it.

You’re saying scum didn’t bus now you’re saying it’s possible when your tone doesn’t match?

My point about your tone should have no bearing on whether or not scum bussed on D1.

Ebwop

[MathBlade]

I am not saying anything about day one bussing. I am saying day two bussing doesn't make sense in this game state where Omo could push me. So if Max is scum (which I think is likely) Omo is probably town (and I had a townread already on them).

What do you find about D1 then?
Do you think scum bussed?

[MathBlade]

Because I find that you asking a random lurker for a claim rather troubling when again, fypov this game would likely be close to solved.

Yet furthermore you’re asking this in one of three scenarios
A> You think/know Max is a PR and Titus protective babysitter town and therefore outing a PR is a good way to ensure Titus can’t protect them
Or B > You think/know Max is a PR and You think / know Titus is scum and are banking on a protective
Or C> You think/know Max is a VT

None of these situations are good to ask for a claim in.

Another incongruency.

I do not have a stance on Max as Max is quiet along with a few others

But this is not consistent with town play.

Pedit: Congrats Titus!

[MathBlade]

Whoops forgot D> You think / know Max is a vanilla goon (but I don’t think that triggers a Dwelee post like that but is technically an option)

[MathBlade]

If you think Max is scum then case Max. It gives me something to see if these inconsistencies make sense.

[MathBlade]

I think if scum HARD bussed it was Kyo, and I think Kyo is town so no hard bussing. There could be scum on the wagon though sure.

Pedit: I'm asking because I think max is going to get to E-1 and I don't feel like there's reason to wait to claim.

Uhm there’s like 6+ days left iirc?

Pretty sure Max doesn’t get to L-1 that fast without a case and even then with time to answer and hammering would be a scum claim? So like no reason to speedy Gonzalez.

[MathBlade]

I don't even understand what your conspiracy with the Titus stuff is. You really are her brother

Pedit: The case is that she is lurking and I don't think has interactions with DGB. Her EoD is saying she will be back to do stuff later and hasn't posted since then.

So Not Mafia is the same way, I think? Not Mafia’s ISO is sparser than a tree in a desert.

What’s your point here?

You’re bored? I don’t vote people because you’re bored. Go watch TV or something and come back.

Just because you’re bored doesn’t mean we do stupid shit.

Look at the scum game I just won. The only reason my team and I won that was because town didn’t play like a town should. We will not be having random people claim because “you’re bored”. Case her.

[MathBlade]

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=87020

There’s the link of anyone cares.

The only reason I was able to stage a fake claim on D2 and run it through was because a majority of people had claimed/crumbed but my replace in.

I will reread your ISO but I don’t remember anything resolving a case.

[MathBlade]

That’s not a case.

A case is something like

Max is scum because she in post 123455 and because of this it means Player here is town.

Repeat for all the scummy things she did.

I get you think she is scum but that little is not a case. It’s barely even a thought.

[MathBlade]

You really are this close to a policy vote so I better step away and play some Pathfinder kingmaker.

I can’t tell if you’re dense and ridiculously annoying town or if you’re scum trying to sus out information and it’s pissing me off.

[MathBlade]

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/malaise

A general unease feeling.

[MathBlade]

targeting babysitter is dangerous no matter what and im of the belief mafia missed my soft

It seems that way but it could easily be scum that

ignored

your crumb to make it appear that they missed it.

Missed the crumb:
{Max (newb), Salsa (English as a second language), Not_Mafia (not_reading)}

Ignored the crumb:
{Dwlee, omo, Titus, MathBlade}

Marci/Geraint, I don't feel confident putting them in either category. Either way, I think if one scum missed the crumb they both did.

pedit: these wagons are giving me the spooks. omo and dwlee voting together, and Max and Salsa voting together, cross-voting
TvS wagons I think.
UNVOTE:

I agree with like 90% of your prior wall post. I still think if there is a deep wolf they could kill Roden here. Saying more or why stops what I am hunting for.

This post however I find very “off”.

I don’t really think there should be a “missed” or “ignored” category.

Assume Faria is scum. Their buddy could have seen the crumb and interacted with it and then Faria posts asking what a Friendly Neighbor is.

Two, assume I am scum (incorrectly) you can’t seriously tell me that I would be in the ignore column when I have a post telling Titus who claimed babysitter to look at post 45 (which has town buddies -> common FN crumb, page 40 the “friendly” and page 41 where I post a WWF video that has protecting Manatees midway through. Like you could argue I am in the ignore category but you really would need a third category for deliberate manipulation here.

Three, the more I think about it the more I don’t like this sort at all. We don’t know who the scum are or what they are thinking yet. Using the Roden kill I could paint almost anyone as scum. But I think we learn more from who scum push.

Four, why are these wagons that stalled TvS yet you’re treating the D1 wagons with Marci and Manatee as TvT?

Fifth, I am pretty unsatisfied with your answer. You seem like a deep player. I get gut vibes Titus is town but a lot better argument Titus is scum is that she argued protecting Manatee was about day claim yet she says she saw the FN crumbs after I pointed them out and was “taking a risk” making her answer about day play wrong or her answers about the video are wrong.

[MathBlade]

How much experience do you have Kyouko? And why do I get the feeling I have played with you before?

[MathBlade]

And also why are you continually shading Titus yet never voting her?

It’s giving me major pings.

[MathBlade]

I am not suspicious of Titus which makes me suspicious of Titus. I struggle to read Titus properly most games and usually hunting her directly gets me just angry her angry and leads to a big blow up and just bad. Pretty much based on her play I wanted to lock her yet you didn’t want to lock her which means I should hear you out. I think your argument is weak (being generous). My questions are leading but they are more towards sorting you sorting her to get a read on Titus and you.

I completely disagree with what is going on here wagon wise.

Assume your premise that the current wagons are TvS. Why do you not want to elim in them? Instead you’re picking a third wagon Dwlee. This means your entire solve would be Dwlee+Max/Owo. This doesn’t seem to jive with what you’re posting.

I kinda feel like this is a TvTvT shitfest and deep wolf(ves) don’t want to hop on for cred.

Titus is also posting very incongruent shit.

She cannot say that Max v Omo is TvS vote Dwlee then say a scum is in Me + Omo.

If we assume Max scum then Dwelee scum then no room for me scum
If we assume Owo scum then Dwlee scum then no room for me scum.

I think it’s more likely as day progresses we are looking for a deep wolf. This doesn’t add up,

[MathBlade]

I think you're trying to manipulate me into voting Titus with the leading questions tbh. I dont know if it's scum or controlling town though.
Titus, or anyone else with mathblade experience: is this something he tries as town? To "lead a horse to water", as it were, and dichotomize the horse based on whether they drink?

To be clear I have about a billion (hyperbole) scum games.
I am sure if someone wanted to paint me as scum that does a certain thing they could.
When I am scum (again not here), I manipulate the gamestate not people. Townies become scum more than I ever would. In the linked game I had Xlos and DGB were my puppets doing the scummy things I couldn’t. I don’t outright manipulate here. It’s why as scum I am almost never wagoned because I am honest and truthful to a fault and nothing is off limits and I consistently try to bring scum and town meta in alignment to avoid trust tells.

[MathBlade]

Votecount:

• DrippingGoofball (7): marcistar, ssbm_Kyouko, ManateeDude, Roden, Titus, MathBlade, omo
  Roden (2): DrippingGoofball, Dwlee99
  Salsabil Faria (2): geraintm, Salsabil Faria
  omo (1): MaxTheFox
  Not_Mafia (1): Not_Mafia

Day 1 will end in (expired on 2021-07-25 10:22:01).
With 13 alive, it takes 7 to eliminate.

Spoiler: Votes Since Last Votecount

VOTE: DGB

TRing everyone on this wagon.

VOTE: Roden

VOTE: DGB

TRing everyone on this wagon.

VOTE: DGB

Ditto.

Oh and not sure if anyone saw a recent WWF ad? It’s so cute I just have to share it.



Show love to people <3

VOTE: Roden after some thought I think Roden TMId in their response to me regarding my assertion that it is unrealistic from their POV that I helped shut down a wagon on them that I initiated and am scum to them. The motivations for me as scum to do that are dubious at best considering the gamestate at the time.


I thought they were town but perhaps I am threatening their other 2 partners ergo that's dangerous to them - or they need to dismantle a townblock that's formed in a way. I'm still trying to wrap my head around this, as I've been rereading my own ISO and noticed some things I had forgotten about.


The fact this isn't the first time this day phase Roden has made very questionable play in terms of not bad play but like .. dunno how to explain it its just weird/not town motivated.

I'm hungover as shit so not in the mood to really ellaborate but I'll quote Kyouko's case in my next post.

VOTE: DGB

whatever

there's absolutely no agreement here and I don't think DGB is that valuable to the gamestate anyways so yeah

I'm hammering this so no shit counterwagon happens because no one wants to go for any of my scumreads and this is at least low in my reads

Looking at this VC here, assuming Titus town, I know I am town, then if there is scum in the wagon it is in Marci/Kyo/owo if the wagons are TvT as I suspect then a Marci Kyo wagon pops up again. I coulda sworn Kyo was the first voter on DGB though I am going to have to reread that.

[MathBlade]

Just to expand on things further, people believed their head canon so much that game I literally told Titus every reason my team did kills and she just disagreed with me so much I just shut up.

I knew the setup was townsided as fuck due to my informed ability so I kept it up consistently. While I didn’t expect to have a DGB/Titus/me elo the well was continually poisoned and preyed upon “This is too much power narrative”. While accurate it got rid of the PRs I literally couldn’t kill because we had higher priority kills to make (except Jake that was me being a dumb dumb and forgetting DGB was odd night). Each and every post as scum (again incorrect) is planned and calculated.

My point is if you want to sort me imho asking if I have history of X is the wrong way to go about it.

I have lost count of the number of games I have played as either alignment and I am sure that unless you look at global context something fits.

[MathBlade]

I don’t think Dwlee is “clear scum”. They angered me and would be a policy hammer but I don’t think they’re scum. They’re not top tier townread and I would hammer to prevent a no elim but pissing me off does not merit a vote.

Furthermore I don’t think I ever die here. I have the charisma of wet tissue paper, I am working on it but if I die I consider it protown if I do die then scum kill me for a reason.

If Dwlee turns out to be scum and I was wrong then I accept my miselim fate tomorrow I just don’t see them as scum atm.

[MathBlade]

I actually cased Max. "Come up with something more convincing on their own," I did. Still waiting for Max to answer something so I'm waiting for that though.

And you didn’t.

You just said “they lurk”. That’s all your posting boils down to.
I retorted so are other players.

Then you just said you cased Max.

Which is well you didn’t and it becomes pointless to argue in circles. It just pisses everyone off.

[MathBlade]

How about this: max's day one ISO has content on a variety of slots, but almost all of it is extremely surface level except for her read on omo. 439 and 466 have depth, but posts like 457 are more like active lurking than really solving.

Did you miss this post?

Yes I did. I was gaming last night.

I will take a look after I clock out (around 5 PM PST maybe 6-7) at those posts.

[MathBlade]

You're going to waste the whole day phase if you're planning for a red flip

Seconded. A flip should never ever be planned for unless you have a red check.

You can be “so certain” in a read that you don’t want anyone else but if you’re really that sure it should be convincing to everyone else too. The fact we still don’t have a cohesive town block despite getting scum d1 is troubling.

It’s more like I feel like I am being played and that’s my big feeling I just don’t know by who.

[MathBlade]

And don’t get me wrong I HATE town blocks with a passion.

But one should exist by now as part of a healthy gamestate

[MathBlade]

Titus is probably final scum with the terrible night visit, scummy play yesterday, and that she is using arbitrary VCA with unflipped slots to push me.

Pedit: Math wtf

"terrible night visit"

see: my post about how titus' role doesn't exist as scum ergo their choices can be whatever they want so analyzing their choice can always be knocked off as a reason.

Okay see this here.

Currently I don’t suspect Titus yet multiple people do.

This means either A> I am wrong and Titus is scum and we should elim her
Or B> I am right and Titus is town and scum are pushing Titus but to shade her not miselim her right now

Why do you say Titus’s role doesn’t exist as scum? A scum babysitter would be pretty novel and I could see her doing a Shadowrun esque type thing here, crumb the truth and people discount it. But that’s more I could make an argument she is scum but I don’t believe it type deal.

[MathBlade]

Roles which are explicitly Normal for any alignment include:
Alien, Babysitter, Bodyguard, Checker, Commuter, Sane Cop, Detective, Doctor, Encryptor, Finder, Follower, Fruit Vendor, Gunsmith, Hider, Jack-of-all-trades, Jailkeeper, Motion Detector, Mailman, Neapolitan, Neighbor, Neighborizer, Psychologist, PT Cop, Roleblocker, Role Cop, Rolestopper, Role Watcher, Tracker, Traffic Analyst, Universal Backup, Vanilla Cop, Visitor, Voyeur, Watcher

Yeah I double checked scum babysitter is possible. So why do you exclude Titus scum babysitter Owo?

[MathBlade]

I think Titus, Marci, Manatee, Me is the block, and omo/mathblade are like auxiliary to the block.

Does anyone in the block listed (not the auxiliary) disagree with the block?

I veto you believing this because you expressed sus on Titus so this feels fake.
I also don’t like you didn’t like me commenting on it while still calling me town.

[MathBlade]

If there is a vigilante or any town killing role I put the odds that "babysitter" is scum north of 80%, regardless of Titus' scummy day play.

I would put it 65% as Mafiascum has intentionally ran setups recently to discount that line of thinking.
But yeah.

I think Titus if scum definitely true claimed for cred, but since she’s not dead, I would argue she’s more likely town true claiming than scum true claiming.

I don’t think Titus as scum fake claims a role with like 0 pressure because of “deadline” without a long term gambit in play here which again points to deep wolves

[MathBlade]

Furthermore if Titus fake claimed we would be looking at something like Titus Owo.

She just doesn’t gambit without a plan. It’s not like her.
It’s much more likely she is town and scum is in owo or Kyo who shaded her.

[MathBlade]

VOTE: Owo
I think I like my vote here based on day play and will help me figure out if we are in scum Owo land or if we are in town Owo land which then has drastic consequences for the game as a whole imho

[MathBlade]

Lunch break is over but will check back later.

If Owo is town I need them to start town telling here because then TvTVT becomes incredibly likely and I start looking in a Titus or a Kyo or Marci elim

[MathBlade]

Math why do you think Max is town?

Because no one has followed you yet I really gotta go sorry.

[MathBlade]

I said im lurking. salsa what r ur thoughts on max rn? you lay down a vote but im curious how serious it was

Said already, I think her lurking in this game is scum indicative, the vote on her is moderately serious. Like

Math

, I also think now we have at least one deepwolf (considering both

Dwlee

and

OMO

are town).

u said u think im town, so who does that leave as the deepwolf?
"considering both dwlee and omo are town" how do you know that..?

What if it’s

Max

and

geraintm

? 2 lurkers

i do think geraintm has a decent chance of being scum here, but max im kinda unsure on.

pedit: these wagons are giving me the spooks. omo and dwlee voting together, and Max and Salsa voting together, cross-voting
TvS wagons I think.

i dont think scum would wanna wagon together so openly. do you think they would?

1-5 Maricstar omo dynamic is interesting. Marci might be a wagon to save owo.

didn't think of this originally.

Looking at this VC here, assuming Titus town, I know I am town, then if there is scum in the wagon it is in Marci/Kyo/owo if the wagons are TvT as I suspect then a Marci Kyo wagon pops up again. I coulda sworn Kyo was the first voter on DGB though I am going to have to reread that.

i voted drippinggoofballs slot early on (i think in the first few pages..? not sure exactly) and just never moved off.


- -

out of 1333s vc,
i dont think owo would be a good move, they've felt generally towny to me this game.

max is a good vote, im not sure if i exactly trust theyre vt rn.
so is dwlee, they could be doing a lot more but they aren't doing much.

i really really really want geraintm today to give us stuff, they better not slide by like a slipperly snake

VOTE: Salsabil Faria

Hey Titus, how do you feel about flash wagon part two?

Marci brings up a good point and if y’all are all town and I am just paranoid then Faria is just buddying the shit out of me and I am wrong.

[MathBlade]

How about this: max's day one ISO has content on a variety of slots, but almost all of it is extremely surface level except for her read on omo. 439 and 466 have depth, but posts like 457 are more like active lurking than really solving.

Did you miss this post?

I owe you this and one other response which is incoming before I forget.
I think it’s a start. I am just not sold on Max scum sorry.

[MathBlade]

Math why do you think Max is town?

The short version is that much as I reviewed your post is the argument is the ISO is bare and she’s lurking.

So? I don’t know her. I don’t know what she does as town vs scum.

I haven’t seen anything that is anti town other than lurker which fits a ton of people.

Between that and no one chomping on the bit to join you or interact means that scum likely don’t care/don’t want to be seen on the wagon, making her likely town.

Guess you can call it gamestate vibes.

[MathBlade]

Or scum aren't hopping on because she is scum.

Possible but not probable.

Aiming at a lurker is kinda a dart board in a dozen.

They either A> produce content B> Get replaced or C>Get policy elimmed.

Surely we can do better than a policy elim after getting scum?

[MathBlade]

Lunch break is over but will check back later.

If Owo is town I need them to start town telling here because then TvTVT becomes incredibly likely and I start looking in a Titus or a Kyo or Marci elim

i don't like this post.

noting this in my iso in case i need it later.

Ooh yay I do something Koba doesn’t like. Back to normal. Who hoo!

[MathBlade]

(And for those of you playing the home game I find owo’s reason for vetoing Salsa crap!)

[MathBlade]

i don't care, my reads on players who misread me consistently are well above rand correct.

Assume this is true.
This makes you me and Salsa town.

Then me and Salsa are mindmelding that there is a deep wolf and we’re both town.

What do you make of that? Is that accurate or are we both mistaken?

[MathBlade]

Anyways VOTE: max
Dwlee scum doesnt incite me to hammer their partner there.
Thats a t3 move not a dwlee move

And you’re voting max? Your point?

[MathBlade]

yeah why are they town

I already explained why I thought she’s town. Do you have a reason she’s scum?
I have provided more reasoning in my flash wagon than you and Dwlee have other than “she’s a lurker”.

I think I am being buddied. If you think I am not then where is the deep wolf?

[MathBlade]

Lack of interaction with a scumbud is incriminating, would you not say?

Not when it describes like a good chunk of the game.

Like that’s what I don’t get here.

I could pick out a good 3-4 people who are “non interactor”s with DGB why her?

[MathBlade]

That would be called a great thing if it happened. That’s a great way to misspell shame. I don’t believe you’re an investigative though but if one existed checking lurkers would be awesome and be #mathApproved

[MathBlade]

Now I feel weird that everyone suddenly agrees with me that something is weird.

[MathBlade]

That’d be awfully scumsided.

A 4v9
4v7
4v5

Means 2 miselims before elo. I doubt this.

In constrast

3v10
3v8
3v6
3v4

I don’t think 4 scum is likely.
3 miselims before elo if three scum.

Three miselims seems a lot more likely.

[MathBlade]

What difference did you notice upon skim?

[MathBlade]

If you need reasons, town!max isn't a tunneler, she actually interacts. She posts more. She doesn't call people misguided town.

Scum!max does call people misguided town and her reaction is to buddy in response to pressure (see dwlee). She comments on the night kills. She posts reads lists with little to no reasoning attached. She lurks more.

Scum!max means town!mathblade and last scum is probably salsabil. The last 2 scum having English as a second language explains why Manatee and I were both not killed. That and my solve at end of day 1 pointed to 2 town.

I promise to take a look at that game but how exactly is max tunneling this game?
I am shit with scumreads but I am pretty good with town ones and Max is a townread.
Like call it a vibe but I really think she’s town.
I wish I could explain it but I don’t think she is scum.

[MathBlade]

Looker is force replaced for mocking homosexuality and then doubling down.

Votecount:

• omo (4): MaxTheFox, Salsabil Faria, DrippingGoofball, Saudade
  Roden (4): ssbm_Kyouko, omo, Dwlee99, ManateeDude
  DrippingGoofball (2): marcistar, Titus
  Salsabil Faria (1): geraintm
  Not_Mafia (1): Not_Mafia
  ManateeDude (1): Roden

Spoiler: Votes Since Last Votecount

VOTE: dwlee99
why'd you sheepe me bro

Also, VOTE: owo - she's pocketing Not_Mafia, and her and marcistar are being cliquey. Fight the power. End the oppressive regime.

Everything up to 172 is RVS, but in no way does it try to get out of RVS

Hi I'm a miller

Would you happen to be...Informed?

informed of DN

What is DN?

Oh no.

I'm not sure what DN is but why do I feel a sinking feeling shit's going sideways?

A Death Neighborizer!?

Deez Nuts

But yeah it feels like RVS is going on a bit too long.

I think scum's getting restless with RVS and is waiting for someone to make a move they can pounce on

general consensus seems to be a dislike of their entry which i think is pretty nai

translation: stop wagoning my partner for wrong reasons

Hero solve: Max + Manatee + Marci

How serious is this?

Here there is a believable attempt to start solving, but since then, feels like a good amount has happened that Roden could be commenting on, especially given they feel RVS is going on too long

general consensus seems to be a dislike of their entry which i think is pretty nai

translation: stop wagoning my partner for wrong reasons

Hero solve: Max + Manatee + Marci

How serious is this?

Didn't get an answer to this.

But instead of continuing to look for solving info they're making a busy post.

VOTE: Roden

The way Marci reacted to me pushing on them feels towny in retrospect, I was just a bit taken aback at the time when they were not suspicious of me which made me feel like there was TMI at play but at the end of the day scum leans towards actually questioning people who are FoSing them.

I'll sheep you for now kyouko VOTE: Roden

VOTE: omo

VOTE: Rodent
Kyo town?

I am masons with your mum

UNVOTE: Not_Mafia

VOTE: Not_Mafia

UNVOTE: Not_Mafia

He's the only one who is actually trying to play the game.

Scum!Not_Mafia is usually happy to troll.

I'm down for town reading Kyouko, if only because her reasoning for scum reading me is so bad I don't think scum would try it.

do u usually play like this..?

Like what? Her accusation is completely unreasonable. Let alone hypocritical since she hasn't commented on everything either.

i dont think its unreasonable, you seem a bit held back this game
do you usually play so go-with-the-flow held back type of style?

I've literally never played a game with you before? What are you talking about here?

And haven't you just been memeing all game and brushing off every accusation toward you?

VOTE: Marcistar

VOTE: Roden

i think ur getting way too defensive considering the people calling u out r not even full on saying ur wolfy

VOTE: ManateeDude

So you're saying you're not paying attention and just sheeping the first player to make a detailed scum read? And your own justification for voting me is that I'm "defensive"? You might as well be scum claiming tbh.

To what are you referring Kyo?

[MathBlade]

Ugh mobile messed up the formatting

My point is I don’t see what you’re talking about with Saudade?

[MathBlade]

Yay an actual case! I will sleep on it tonight and look stuff up.

Maybe my vibes are wrong.

[MathBlade]

omo and Dwlee99

I have to say that’s the funniest case I have read? Seen?

I would prefer a case with words and logic please.

[MathBlade]

Lmfao I can’t lmao I just can’t …

[MathBlade]

Woke up late and there’s a lot of posts. Will have to catch up during lunch and today is civ day.

If someone has questions for me please do something like “@MathBlade” in bold or something or I am scared I might miss it.

[MathBlade]

I am kinda thinking Marci Salsa.

That naked hammer was sus as fuck.

And got your message Manatee. You’re still a friendly neighbor.

[MathBlade]

1. Not_Mafia*
2. MathBlade who replaced Saudade
5. geraintm —> Conf town
7. Dwlee99
10. ssbm_Kyouko
11. ManateeDude —> Conf Town
12. Salsabil Faria
13. marcistar

Alive list for those who need it.

[MathBlade]

Tomorrow is presumably MELO if we execute town again. With FN and IC to self-confirm and no scum PRs flipped I think we can assume we're not going to get any investigative results tomorrow either. I'm going to update my colored VCs with what little data we have from yesterday, but with 2 flips and an IC things could be a lot more telling now than they were yesterday.

Agreed.
Realistically if we assume a mis elimination then one of Manatee/gerantim probably dies.
Then if tomorrow we no elim the other probably dies.
So I think we just sort of have like a double elo situation here.

[MathBlade]

If there is a deepwolf it is Kyo, just saying.

Why do you say Kyo over Marci?

[MathBlade]

Personally I think Marci fits the VCA a lot better.

It explains why the wagon stalled. Marci had a lag vote on DGB she planned to move then boom Kyo wagons DGB out of no where and she can’t move it.

Then the rest of us hurry on with the flash wagon and her partner can’t move.

It’s possible that Marci is town and Kyo is a deep wolf but I think it’s more likely Marci here.

VOTE: Marci

[MathBlade]

I didn't consider Marci part of the town block as much as I did Kyo.

Who do you consider the town block?

[MathBlade]

Kyo/you/omo but omo is dead now.

VOTE: Unvote

Damn couple things missing here for sure.

[MathBlade]

yea looking back i dont think marcis positioning on DGB wagon means anything esp considering how she flitted around the slot. theres this weird example (remind me to pull it up on computer) where she calls dgb a leftover read and not a fleshed out one despite sticking her vote on it

Marci + 1 is pretty likely just a matter of finding the one.

I am not nearly as sure of my Salsa read as I am my Marci read.

[MathBlade]

i thought townblock was kyo/me/marci/titus +tentative omo & MB

I think Marci + Dwlee now possibly.

Kinda wanna see other people’s posts and see what they think of Dwlee’s recent posts.

[MathBlade]

i really dont like dwlee positioning kyo as a possible deepwolf but idk what it means xd

Kyo/you/omo but omo is dead now.

This post is the bad one.

[MathBlade]

How is it bad to have my top townreads as you Kyo and omo? I didn't include the conftown there for brevity's sake

You identified the problem now.

I don’t know if I buy the excuse now but that’s sus as fuck.

[MathBlade]

am also a tad confused

They excluded conf town from the town block.

[MathBlade]

I'm no longer doubting Math, now when considering Marci's DGB vote. I also think scum!Marci is TMIing her partners in RVS if it's {DGB, Marci, Salsabil}.

Titus was also suspicious of Dwlee/omo as a unit I feel like, though she did associate omo and Math, with omo being more likely. I think it's clear her Babysit was meant to be insurance to kill a scumread in the event of her death. I think scum!Math and scum!Dwlee might have been more careful in case Titus targeted one of them. I don't think the scumteam felt they were at risk of being targeted.

That really leaves 2 of Marci, Salsabil, N_M

I think Titus was a forced kill last night.

N1 they weren’t sure of what Titus and I were trying to communicate so they didn’t know who she would likely protect. So they shot Roden who was massively townread and probably just a townreads kill.

N2 Titus becomes a forced kill and with their vote on Owo not picking up traction it’s a safe kill.

I don’t think NKA gets us far unfortunately. I think it’s going to be a purely day play thing.

[MathBlade]

am also a tad confused

They excluded conf town from the town block.

Moon logic

Doesn’t mean it’s wrong.

If I had all the money in the world and flew to the moon to get to my neighbors house I still got there.

Convince me you’re town.

[MathBlade]

i feel incredibly bad for that hammer but like i lowkey didnt know it was a hammer, i thought i would be able to wake up and explain it later.
i should 100% be punished if the numbers call for it

(WAIT GUYS LOWKEY WHATS THE RULES ON SELFVOTING- AM I ALLOWED TO DO IT HERE OR IS THAT AGAINST THE RULES)

The rules for self voting are that you must be able to help your wincon by doing so.
If you’re scum (as I think) then you’d explain why in the scum PT
If you’re town then a friendly PM to the moderator of “I am self voting and I think it is protown because….(I can’t think of a good reason here)”

As long as you aren’t in your opinion throwing then you’re golden. You always have to play to win con.

I don’t see a protown reason to self vote and this really seems like a scum claim

[MathBlade]

I wouldn't kill Titus there.

Interesting. Who would you kill?

[MathBlade]

I wouldn't kill Titus there.

Interesting. Who would you kill?

Manatee

Why is Titus' go to insult this game to call people children?

Informed of an innocent child?

Also this is funny

I thought I dropped enough hints with my posts that if I ever was forced to claim I could point to stuff.

But (I believe it was you) read this post and just assumed I was joking....

Oops

Hmmm no why.

Who do you think is scum on the Max wagon?

[MathBlade]

Salsa > Marci > Kyo (except Kyo gives me the deepwolg heebie jeebies)

Why Salsa more than Marci?

[MathBlade]

Regarding your DGB vote, maybe you weren’t. Maybe you were aiming for a miselim. The point is your vote was on it while doing fuck all to get it elimmed.

Don’t worry I am pretty much in the camp of probably scum or if you’re not scum you need to not be here at melo.

And you gain a Townie dead? Until I conclusively find your partner that sort of question is kinda silly. If it’s you and Dwlee you gain a day to give them some breathing room. You and Salsa means that Salsa isn’t forced to give more content.

The what you gain is dependent on your partner.

[MathBlade]

I am kinda thinking Marci Salsa.

That naked hammer was sus as fuck.

And got your message Manatee. You’re still a friendly neighbor.

Again same question, when you see my green flip, what does it tell you?

That scum would be in control of the game because we didn’t elim Marci.
Then I try again tomorrow.

In a situation like this you always elim the player most likely to be scum and hunt around them.

If for some reason Marci becomes less likely to be scum then we move onto the next most likely.

Assuming someone is scum then aiming for their partner is a recipe for failure.

[MathBlade]

And you gain a Townie dead? Until I conclusively find your partner that sort of question is kinda silly. If it’s you and Dwlee you gain a day to give them some breathing room. You and Salsa means that Salsa isn’t forced to give more content.

The what you gain is dependent on your partner.

ssbm_kyouko considered me part of their townblock thing

what do i gain from making a scummy hammer, and ruining my chances at that townblock..?
if i was scum surely i would want to milk the townblock for all it worth, hmm?

sacrificing how towny i seem, just to get a townie miselimed and then be sused right after is not a move i would make

Again, without knowing your partner I can’t jump to why.

I don’t have to answer every question why to be correct.

Similar to how evolution is true even though we don’t have every itty bitty fossil of every creature that ever lived.

I am not going to give some massive hypothesis for scum to manipulate. There are many possible worlds including some where you are town. It’s just the most likely you are scum.

I have to work now but instead of trying to get me to townread you you should be hunting that way if you’re town you point a FoS at scum or give enough town pings to where people see your motivations.

Until you can provide a more probable player or do something resembling hunting I don’t give a fuck.

[MathBlade]

argh, this feels like scm trying to direct a vote. We are too close to losing and too many people making bets on tomorrow if someone doesn't flip scum today.

I still want to look at Math from Day 1

but then ssbm_Kyouko + marcistar on both wagons.

not mafia just dodging the game.

known town roles are

me - informed child
titus - babysitter
manatee - friendly neighbour

that is it so far right?

Look I am going to be really blunt here.

You want to sort me because of something nebulous D1 then do it. Ask me shit. Interact with me. Because right now this is just shade. What scum can then do is kill you and say “Oh look Math fear killed G” whenever one of Manatee or you are shot OR they can shoot Manatee and then support your bad read tomorrow.

So real talk whoever you want to sort just do it and find who is the most likely scum and push there.

Find whoever you want to hunt and then look at the gamestate. Assume they are scum and what conclusions arise. Towns work well when we deal with the most probable.

Both you and Manatee imho are far too passive. It’s almost a guarantee scum kill one of you tonight. I really want both of you to lead here.

[MathBlade]

I am kinda thinking Marci Salsa.

That naked hammer was sus as fuck.

And got your message Manatee. You’re still a friendly neighbor.

Again same question, when you see my green flip, what does it tell you?

That scum would be in control of the game because we didn’t elim Marci.
Then I try again tomorrow.

In a situation like this you always elim the player most likely to be scum and hunt around them.

If for some reason Marci becomes less likely to be scum then we move onto the next most likely.

Assuming someone is scum then aiming for their partner is a recipe for failure.

That's what you're doing by assuming me and

Marci

are scum partners.
As scum, I catch up 1st, then post on the game thread according to that. If I was scum here, then I would know about the hammer from my scum!partner

Marci

and didn’t post a thing yesterday.

I have many possible worlds, you and Marci is one of the most probable. I am not “assuming” you’re partners and then wagoning you. This is a gross misrepresentation.

I know there absolutely has to be a scum on the max wagon yesterday so it merely becomes a matter of how that wagon came to fruition. Was it scum driven or town driven? Did Kyo + Marci do a quick double hammer and pray no one notice due to limited VCs? The best way to figure out what happened is to build hypothesis and then test them.

Everyone here feels far too lax here. “Oh we have two conf town this is fine”. Like this is infuriating.

[MathBlade]

How is it bad to have my top townreads as you Kyo and omo? I didn't include the conftown there for brevity's sake

You identified the problem now.

I don’t know if I buy the excuse now but that’s sus as fuck.

It's weird to say it was for brevity's sake, imo you exclude them because it is implied they are part of the townblock as conftown. I dont see this as a reason to SR Dwlee though.

I'm no longer doubting Math, now when considering Marci's DGB vote. I also think scum!Marci is TMIing her partners in RVS if it's {DGB, Marci, Salsabil}.

Titus was also suspicious of Dwlee/omo as a unit I feel like, though she did associate omo and Math, with omo being more likely. I think it's clear her Babysit was meant to be insurance to kill a scumread in the event of her death. I think scum!Math and scum!Dwlee might have been more careful in case Titus targeted one of them. I don't think the scumteam felt they were at risk of being targeted.

That really leaves 2 of Marci, Salsabil, N_M

I think Titus was a forced kill last night.

N1 they weren’t sure of what Titus and I were trying to communicate so they didn’t know who she would likely protect. So they shot Roden who was massively townread and probably just a townreads kill.

N2 Titus becomes a forced kill and with their vote on Owo not picking up traction it’s a safe kill.

I don’t think NKA gets us far unfortunately. I think it’s going to be a purely day play thing.

What do you mean by forced kill? Why were scum forced into it?

Okay maybe there's credibility to the Salsa/Marci solve if Salsa is going to say we are both suspicious and then vote me.

Yeah probably lmao. That's definitely sus. I've also never seen town!Salsabil give up the way she did D1 when she self-voted. She usually shows more effort, and she tends to ping me early when she's town.

And you gain a Townie dead? Until I conclusively find your partner that sort of question is kinda silly. If it’s you and Dwlee you gain a day to give them some breathing room. You and Salsa means that Salsa isn’t forced to give more content.

The what you gain is dependent on your partner.

ssbm_kyouko considered me part of their townblock thing

what do i gain from making a scummy hammer, and ruining my chances at that townblock..?
if i was scum surely i would want to milk the townblock for all it worth, hmm?

sacrificing how towny i seem, just to get a townie miselimed and then be sused right after is not a move i would make

Maybe you didnt know it was a hammer and wanted to get on with the wagon I was leading for appearances. Or it's just WIFOM.

argh, this feels like scm trying to direct a vote. We are too close to losing and too many people making bets on tomorrow if someone doesn't flip scum today.

I still want to look at Math from Day 1

but then ssbm_Kyouko + marcistar on both wagons.

not mafia just dodging the game.

known town roles are

me - informed child
titus - babysitter
manatee - friendly neighbour

that is it so far right?

Yes, speaking of roles, Dwlee beat me to it:

We should probably mass claim today BTW

We should mass claim, from the bottom up, since we're probably 1 ME away from MELO.
Salsa/Marci/N_M
Dwlee
Me/MathBlade

I think the exact order doesnt matter as long as we follow these tiers. Manatee/geraintm, would either of you reorder these tiers?

Regarding Dwlee by asking specific questions you can see what their thought process is. I don’t buy their explanation because they included the dead. If you’re excluding the conf town for expediency surely you don’t include the dead for expediency. So if Dwlee is town then they’re being careless and not watching for finer points and if they’re scum they aren’t thinking in terms of town blocks. Either way it gives me something. If Dwlee later starts becoming hyper careful that’s in contrast to the carelessness earlier.

Regarding the forced kill this is something you hinted at early. Titus literally was a ticking time bomb because she is town. I believe (redacted) about claims because of my experience on MS so answering this further means I run the risk of scum doing (redacted thing) so I would rather wait to finish answering this in completeness until my turn to claim. There’s a potential for a scum claim possibly so I would rather wait.

[MathBlade]

Votecount:

• MaxTheFox (6): omo, Dwlee99, ManateeDude, Salsabil Faria, ssbm_Kyouko, marcistar
  omo (2): MaxTheFox, Titus
  Salsabil Faria (1): MathBlade

Day 2 will end in (expired on 2021-08-02 11:22:01).
With 11 alive, it takes 6 to eliminate.

Spoiler: Votes Since Last Votecount

VOTE: Owo
I think I like my vote here based on day play and will help me figure out if we are in scum Owo land or if we are in town Owo land which then has drastic consequences for the game as a whole imho

In fact,

VOTE: owo

Feel more confident here than Dwlee atm.

I said im lurking. salsa what r ur thoughts on max rn? you lay down a vote but im curious how serious it was

Said already, I think her lurking in this game is scum indicative, the vote on her is moderately serious. Like

Math

, I also think now we have at least one deepwolf (considering both

Dwlee

and

OMO

are town).

u said u think im town, so who does that leave as the deepwolf?
"considering both dwlee and omo are town" how do you know that..?

What if it’s

Max

and

geraintm

? 2 lurkers

i do think geraintm has a decent chance of being scum here, but max im kinda unsure on.

pedit: these wagons are giving me the spooks. omo and dwlee voting together, and Max and Salsa voting together, cross-voting
TvS wagons I think.

i dont think scum would wanna wagon together so openly. do you think they would?

1-5 Maricstar omo dynamic is interesting. Marci might be a wagon to save owo.

didn't think of this originally.

Looking at this VC here, assuming Titus town, I know I am town, then if there is scum in the wagon it is in Marci/Kyo/owo if the wagons are TvT as I suspect then a Marci Kyo wagon pops up again. I coulda sworn Kyo was the first voter on DGB though I am going to have to reread that.

i voted drippinggoofballs slot early on (i think in the first few pages..? not sure exactly) and just never moved off.


- -

out of 1333s vc,
i dont think owo would be a good move, they've felt generally towny to me this game.

max is a good vote, im not sure if i exactly trust theyre vt rn.
so is dwlee, they could be doing a lot more but they aren't doing much.

i really really really want geraintm today to give us stuff, they better not slide by like a slipperly snake

VOTE: Salsabil Faria

Hey Titus, how do you feel about flash wagon part two?

Marci brings up a good point and if y’all are all town and I am just paranoid then Faria is just buddying the shit out of me and I am wrong.

Didn't catch up fully but my reads are formed, might as well.

Weird bc I've been doing more discussion than you have. Sounds like youre your own obstacle to getting into discussion and you're projecting that onto me

Also what you claim isnt proof that is my intent nor does your analysis look at intent. Happy to dunk you if you keep this up.

What discussion have you been doing until page 10? Most of your posts up to that point were, as I said, question-dodges. What town intent could this possibly have? But honestly it's early and I'm not locking onto you yet. Do better.

Reads:

TOWN BIN

MaxTheFox - I'm town.
Salsabil - good tone and trying to solve the game early = town in my eyes.

TOWN LEAN

Saudade - at first I didn't like their tone but I don't really see scum being likely to be so nonchalant, if that's the right word.
Manatee - gut read. Trust me on this.
Not_Mafia - yes he is a troll but at the same time it looks like he's actually contributing and trying to solve. Unlike the other Miltank avatar in the game...

NULL

Everyone else, expect another list later in day 1 when there is more content.

SCUM LEAN

omo - trolled in an useless way, dodged questions, picked up the slack in the last page which is why I'm not binning them as scum,
DGB (Looker) - another gut read. I'll let DGB post before voting them though.

SCUM BIN

Nobody yet.

Reads (this is sorted within tiers):

TOWN BIN

MaxTheFox - I'm town.
MathBlade (this was Saudade) - his attempts at solving earn him a lot of good boy points.
Salsabil - kept up the good tone.

TOWN LEAN

Manatee - gut read remains.
Not_Mafia - read stayed.
Dwlee - 50% meta read on this, dubious, I'm not locked onto this in any way.

NULL

marcistar - barely there. Lurker.
ssbm - just generally doesn't ping me as

anything

.
Titus - same.

SCUM LEAN

geraintm - suggested no-lim day 1 which is usually considered a bad idea. Also lurking.

SCUM BIN

omo - see the previous list, except their accusation of a scumclaim is serious now apparently.

---

It's easier for me to townread than scumread people, I found.

Weewooweewoo sound the alarms
VOTE: Max

In actuality I skimmed her iso in the other games she posted and I think this is clearly scum!Max.

VOTE: maxthefox

I think it’s very antitown to look off wagon here unless you’re policying Not Mafia

The people who were off wagon (who are still alive) are me, Not Mafia, and G

G is confirmed town
Not mafia was inactive for most of the day
And me who defending Max the entire time.

Even if we assume Not Mafia scum unless you’re assuming a Me+Not Mafia team (something I know to be false) then we know there is scum on Max’s wagon and it’s where we should look.

[MathBlade]

I have to go back to work but I really want to see more from Manatee and G here. These two should be collaborating like masons in thread here and the game thread is their PT.

[MathBlade]

@Manatee I don’t really do readwalls. I find them misleading. I can do how likely I think each pairing is after work with a keyboard.

@Geraintm I don’t want you to lead by yourself I want you to work with manatee. You may have come off a bad game but the only way to get better is to try again. I would rather lose 100 times over and have people get better than win 100 times over and keep only a few players perceived as good town. By you leading we know that the wagon is town driven and then scum have to try to defend it or not. I am not trying to tell you how to hunt I am just asking you and Manatee to be the dominant force here before nightfall.

[MathBlade]

Ordered list by confidence
Dwlee + Marci 65% OR Salsa + Marci 65% ==> That hammer was really bad. I don't see Marci making it unless her other buddy was posting though but (maybe) from a weaker position.
Kyo + Marci 55% ==> It's possible Kyo + Marci decided to steal a hammer where they could but in every world where this is possible I flip Marci first.
Not Mafia + Dwlee99 Odds 50% ==> Not Mafia lurking makes his stock as scum go up but I think only with everyone but Marci because of the hammer. I townread Kyo more than Dwlee/Salso so that's the percentages.
Not Mafia + Salsa Odds 50%
Not Mafia + Kyo Odds 40%
Dwlee + Kyo 35% ==> I think that Dwelee + Kyo or Kyo + Salsa is possible with how Kyo has focused on Not mafia rather than Dwlee/Salsa I think again this is worth a revisit if Marci flips town though.
Kyo + Salsa 35%
Dwlee + Salsa 10% ==> I don't see a path to victory here for this duo. This group would have both probably voted Marci right away and how hard they're going at each other I don't see this as likely.
Not Mafia + Marci Odds 10% ==> I don't think Marci sneaks that hammer when she'd have to be defensive when her partner would be gone all game.

Like I'd put Marci at 80% scum here because of the hammer and her reaction afterward and how D1 happened. The others are all dependent on her flip and how it happens and whos on it and where. Consider me spiritually on Marci I just don't want to have a runup immediately when I am out.

I'm going to have a busy weekend but will snipe in when I can.

[MathBlade]

That doesn't add to 100%

It’s not meant to.

It’s more of a “could I see this be right level”.

[MathBlade]

Dude stop with the trolling or I just policy you.

If you’re not going to try now then I have 0 assurances you’re going to try in elo.

Consider this as your last warning.

Stop trolling or die.

[MathBlade]

VOTE: Not Mafia

[MathBlade]

Good luck with tunneling confirmed town I won’t help you spam to get out of claiming.

Until you play the vote stays.

[MathBlade]

Spoiler: long post

How is it bad to have my top townreads as you Kyo and omo? I didn't include the conftown there for brevity's sake

You identified the problem now.

I don’t know if I buy the excuse now but that’s sus as fuck.

It's weird to say it was for brevity's sake, imo you exclude them because it is implied they are part of the townblock as conftown. I dont see this as a reason to SR Dwlee though.

I'm no longer doubting Math, now when considering Marci's DGB vote. I also think scum!Marci is TMIing her partners in RVS if it's {DGB, Marci, Salsabil}.

Titus was also suspicious of Dwlee/omo as a unit I feel like, though she did associate omo and Math, with omo being more likely. I think it's clear her Babysit was meant to be insurance to kill a scumread in the event of her death. I think scum!Math and scum!Dwlee might have been more careful in case Titus targeted one of them. I don't think the scumteam felt they were at risk of being targeted.

That really leaves 2 of Marci, Salsabil, N_M

I think Titus was a forced kill last night.

N1 they weren’t sure of what Titus and I were trying to communicate so they didn’t know who she would likely protect. So they shot Roden who was massively townread and probably just a townreads kill.

N2 Titus becomes a forced kill and with their vote on Owo not picking up traction it’s a safe kill.

I don’t think NKA gets us far unfortunately. I think it’s going to be a purely day play thing.

What do you mean by forced kill? Why were scum forced into it?

Okay maybe there's credibility to the Salsa/Marci solve if Salsa is going to say we are both suspicious and then vote me.

Yeah probably lmao. That's definitely sus. I've also never seen town!Salsabil give up the way she did D1 when she self-voted. She usually shows more effort, and she tends to ping me early when she's town.

And you gain a Townie dead? Until I conclusively find your partner that sort of question is kinda silly. If it’s you and Dwlee you gain a day to give them some breathing room. You and Salsa means that Salsa isn’t forced to give more content.

The what you gain is dependent on your partner.

ssbm_kyouko considered me part of their townblock thing

what do i gain from making a scummy hammer, and ruining my chances at that townblock..?
if i was scum surely i would want to milk the townblock for all it worth, hmm?

sacrificing how towny i seem, just to get a townie miselimed and then be sused right after is not a move i would make

Maybe you didnt know it was a hammer and wanted to get on with the wagon I was leading for appearances. Or it's just WIFOM.

argh, this feels like scm trying to direct a vote. We are too close to losing and too many people making bets on tomorrow if someone doesn't flip scum today.

I still want to look at Math from Day 1

but then ssbm_Kyouko + marcistar on both wagons.

not mafia just dodging the game.

known town roles are

me - informed child
titus - babysitter
manatee - friendly neighbour

that is it so far right?

Yes, speaking of roles, Dwlee beat me to it:

We should probably mass claim today BTW

We should mass claim, from the bottom up, since we're probably 1 ME away from MELO.
Salsa/Marci/N_M
Dwlee
Me/MathBlade

I think the exact order doesnt matter as long as we follow these tiers. Manatee/geraintm, would either of you reorder these tiers?

Regarding Dwlee by asking specific questions you can see what their thought process is. I don’t buy their explanation because they included the dead. If you’re excluding the conf town for expediency surely you don’t include the dead for expediency. So if Dwlee is town then they’re being careless and not watching for finer points and if they’re scum they aren’t thinking in terms of town blocks. Either way it gives me something. If Dwlee later starts becoming hyper careful that’s in contrast to the carelessness earlier.

Regarding the forced kill this is something you hinted at early. Titus literally was a ticking time bomb because she is town. I believe (redacted) about claims because of my experience on MS so answering this further means I run the risk of scum doing (redacted thing) so I would rather wait to finish answering this in completeness until my turn to claim. There’s a potential for a scum claim possibly so I would rather wait.

So I am a bland ice cream glubber.

With claims out except Kyo’s who I can tell is hella experienced so even if she is scum she’s gonna claim VT. MS has a general rule about not confirming equal to or more than the likely scum team size so likely scum team size is three so no way for invest/masons here.
No way for protective otherwise mass claim breaks the game.

I didn’t want to answer your question in case scum did something stupid like claim PR.

Pretty much I would balance what’s out here just with goons honestly. Town gets in trouble the moment something claims usually with these PRs. With that in mind, then scum have to kill Titus for sheer numbers.

Assume instead they just killed a random Townie not Titus. Then we are at 9 not 8. Best case for scum miselim down to 7. Titus doesn’t protect G or Manatee lady. So the odds of her vig babysitting scum get high. Maybe they knew G IC maybe they didn’t but even without G being conf you run into her being a forced kill that night.

[MathBlade]

Okay then expand that theory. What does that mean? Talk it out.

[MathBlade]

I wasn’t Kyo and if someone had I would have voted them probably almost instantly barring a really good claim. Because this is a normal and not a theme game these tend to be lower powered affairs. All other PRs claimed/flipped are confirmed town.

So if something like say a 1 shot vig existed it would end up having a huge protown swing given scum vigs can’t exist in normals (I think that change was made).

I really think Marci or NM should be the elim today.

[MathBlade]

Not Mafia is a known troll. Look at his signature. Trying to predict him is like trying to predict a fair d20. You might be right 5% of the time but best to force him to play.

3 goons + weak TPR is balanced. Mountainous is very hard on town. (Much as mountainous is one of my favorite setups)
An extremely good (imho) way to balance a setup is start from light PR then counter balance each side.
They added friendly neighbor / innocent child as those PRs.
Then okay town needs a protective to help with PRs…hmmm doctor? No then you have elo problems…then likely swapped it to babysitter to ensure mass claim can’t protect innos.

Then scum don’t have much in the way to hunt and so no PRs needed.

I agree it’s possible Marci was ditzy but not probable. I would rather know if she was ditzy or not going into elo versus take a risk on Salsa or Dwlee. By your argument we could also elim Salsa first then we could easily lose to a different subset.

[MathBlade]

I want to mudder (sic) the cow.

If that means vote out NM, why not join my spicy Not Mafia wagon?

[MathBlade]

Can you like make an unofficial one? That response is pretty bad.

[MathBlade]

I would say based on these last few pages your stock would diminish greatly if Salsa is town and Marci is scum because you actively tried to derail the Marci elim. Before today if you had asked me that question I would say Dwlee then NM then you but if that was the case throw you all in a pressure cooker and see who comes up.

I know this is a non answer but if we elim Salsa and he’s town that’s a scary proposition here because I have had a feeling a deep wolf was on DGB’s hammer and not having been able to sort there really irks me.

[MathBlade]

I would rather policy NM or just do Marci
What’s your case on Salsa. I don’t have experience with them.

Can you sell me on it?

[MathBlade]

Because I am much more sure on you than Salsa.

That hammer was just so bad.

Combined with the fact people are more willing to vote Salsa means that we’re looking at a very weird situation if you’re town and Salsa is scum here.

As elo approaches the people who want to vote scum are less and less which is why conf!town driving a situation like this is better because they can pressure someone and then if someone wants that person not to be elimmed they have to defend that person. There’s no but “what if scum is pushing me” they aren’t because conf!town is

[MathBlade]

1399 does hang around for a bit but that town and scum didn’t take it means something I don’t know what yet.

[MathBlade]

I would say based on these last few pages your stock would diminish greatly if Salsa is town and Marci is scum because you actively tried to derail the Marci elim. Before today if you had asked me that question I would say Dwlee then NM then you but if that was the case throw you all in a pressure cooker and see who comes up.

I know this is a non answer but if we elim Salsa and he’s town that’s a scary proposition here because I have had a feeling a deep wolf was on DGB’s hammer and not having been able to sort there really irks me.

I'm town and a

She

I apologize I am usually better with pronouns as they are important to me.

Not sure about the town part though.