Mini Normal 2262: NbITGBSMoD [game over]

[Frozen Angel]

[Frozen Angel]

Read nothing of the game will do so in an hour two

[Frozen Angel]

Alright so I'm usually doing some walls of text when replacing in-game - so I can share my thought process as I'm catching up

Just note that it's been a really long time since I played a forum mafia game so I hope I can express my thoughts in a clear manner

Spoiler:

Hi hello

Get rid of all hyperposters first

VOTE: T3

I don't want to kill t3

VOTE: Hockeyfan

The instant question to ask is why not?

Spoiler:

VOTE: wavemode for not having a voting reason

Did anyone else have actually a reason? It was RVS

Spoiler:

well I sr surye too and would rather sort surye first cause hockey is just gonna throw quote walls out.. and I'd rather just worry about him later. I said that cause I don't want people thinking I TR him!! like, yes initial vote was rvs, but I do think he's maf

ooh that's a good post from fire!! I feel like town is more likely to start looking through past games this early

VOTE: HockeyFan

Surye suspicions can wait... for now...
@Surye when you're around, I wanna chat... I'm on to your ways my friend

Fast switch between these two posts. I always find fast switches scummy. Town mindset is way more progressive than branching. Branching is what scum mindsets prefer so they can add themself to the discussions and gain others' trust.

[Frozen Angel]

Spoiler:

i actually kinda agree with the hockey suspicion, i scoped out the starts of his games and the early buttering people up doesn't really feel like his town play, which is usually more fluffposting, banter, and discussing mechanics. i only see one scum game in his history but he acted closer to this. it's not an open so there's no mechanics to discuss here

Litreally what lol. I have "buttered up" people(if tring ppl early is what this means) in other games too. In Newbie 2067, I had about 2-3 reads within the first 4 posts(And I was town that game). Another game is Mini Normal 2234(Once Again town) where I townread someone within the first 2 posts so i'm not sure what meta diving u did?

About the bolded, First of all, I don't do it ALOT(yes I do it I will admit), but secondly the game was off of RVS on page 1 so what are u getting at? Am i suppsoed to do the bolded with 3-4 votes, and get even more votes cuz that doesnt seem like a good plan to me?

but still, he feels like more of an outsider. and like he's forcing himself to make a meaningful post with commentary on the game even when not much has happened, so he can look more town and get people off his back. feels like he's doing it because he thinks he has to instead of because it's his honest thoughts.

Ya, I like making meaningpul posts when 2 ppl have said they don't like RVS(and want to move on it quickly). Whats the deal with this? Also, yes I do have to do with it cuz I have 3 votes!! How can you tell that they're not my "honest" thoughts?

I like this defensive attitude when their meta is questioned. Just feels genuine here.

Spoiler:

What is different between fireisredsir and surye in that regard?

I like this question a lot, dk if I would call them town already tho

This however goes exactly in opposite direction. seems like practically saying "nothing" but looking like you're busy working when some accusations got shifted on you. nervous scummy vibes

Spoiler:

Litreally what lol. I have "buttered up" people(if tring ppl early is what this means) in other games too. In Newbie 2067, I had about 2-3 reads within the first 4 posts(And I was town that game). Another game is Mini Normal 2234(Once Again town) where I townread someone within the first 2 posts so i'm not sure what meta diving u did?

nah, i read those, apparently closer than you did, cause this is disingenuous. both of those read like early banter, not an attempt at looking like you're analyzing. saying "galron locktown" in post 9 because of his rvs vote with no explanation? you're really gonna try to pretend like that's an example of a legit townread? go ahead, double down on that, please

it's more about the tone, anyway. in those two posts you pointed out 4 separate times how you liked/agreed with a part of someone's post. sometimes you townread for it, sometimes not. that's the part that feels fake, i don't think you would feel the need to point those things out if you were town. but as scum, feeling some pressure to come up with something, you might

And I like this push at the same time

Spoiler:

What is different between fireisredsir and surye in that regard?

I like this question a lot, dk if I would call them town already tho

This post really comes off as a wasted early scum post. It grammatically equates to nothing.

towny vibe cookie points for catching what I saw too

Spoiler:

Also I do feel a little bad for so much pressure on someone who is genuinely trying, so Hockey can be Hockey in peace for now

It's literally page 2 and content is just being created. how did you conclude they are genuinely trying and why you thought it was so much of a push?

Seems so deflecting. Again I find this branching/deflecting attidue scummy in nature

[Frozen Angel]

Dw, Im (sadly) used to it, idk how to not act sus lol.

This part of this post is giving me all sorts of vibes. for one it seems you have knowledge that the people you are dealing with are genuinely sus at you. And for someone who was just defending their meta by bringing meta examples, this seems like a contradictory mindset.

Then it's a response to someone who just unvoted you for literally no reason. It gives me the vibe that you want to either make them feel good about doing that (which is contradictory to a usual town mindset who wants the game to be solved - as a town you should have questioned it because of that reason) but also gives the vibe that you were nervous about the votes on you when it's only page 3 and literally no one was voting with a solid reason. or it feels distancing, as you knew the intention of their vote on you, and you don't care about their fast switch.

It's just so not the reaction I find constant with the town mindset and for that will point you my finger of suspicion.

Spoiler:

You've ignored any actual happenings in the thread in favor of throwing together a random list based on nothing

Let's pretend everything you just said is true.

Why does that make me scum?

Ohhh I like that reaction from Stephen. and then him pushing dwelee to explain his train of thoughts repeatly (and in annoying manner) actually getting heavy town vibes from stephan while I didn't find dwelee reaction initially scummy either.

Spoiler:

It's fundamentally zero solve

I respectfully disagree, finding scum and town can be down by making people "react" to things. It's not about the momentary solving or the leadership attitude as both alignments can have it. It's about making people jump on things and then question them about how they thought making that jump was a valid move based on their thought process and scum fail in that as they have no valid/consistant thought process. At least that's my take and that's what I saw he did there that I liked.

pedit: ah meta, well these are just very early observations. we'll see if they are consistent with their character or not during the game

[Frozen Angel]

Spoiler:

Greeting,
We need a centered Stephen a VS DWLEE stat!!!

Also, Stephen is my new favorite player, I read every post in his voice.

getting extra town vibes here. again they saw what I clearly see too

Spoiler:

Is it just me or did anyone else read the entire 2 page thing as
"yes you did"
"no I didn't"
"yes you did"
"no I didn't"

lol that was great! an entire back and forth that meant exactly nothing

What did you get from it though? Why posting Information everyone know but no analysis when everyone else is making some analysis for it?

Spoiler:

and you can be DAMN sure that if I were to draw a mafia card I would do absolutely nothing different

I just happen to be town here.

I like your style

Spoiler:

Why would Steven do this as scum?

"to seem townie" is the simple answer to any question of the form "why would he do that as scum?" ...

Hated the hockey's question. Liked the answer given. Such an absurd question to ask.

Spoiler:

tbh this entire interaction doesnt seem AI at all

Am I really the only one that finds this bad?

Stephan had a list of scumreads for ??? reason. DW was pissed b/c he was on it and it was unexplained. It's content. Deciphering wich alignment the content comes from can be tricky but just throwing your hands up and saying that it was meaningless is dumb


and scummy

Agreed

[Frozen Angel]

203

Eh not a fan of the way this iso search and push was executed.

Spoiler:

scorpious are you scum this game

I'm just curious

neither a fan of this response so lets just keep it at it for now

Early townreads on both Andante and Dwlee for seemingly being the driving forces of the game getting out of RVS so quickly.

what?! I just read the game and this just makes no sense

And first real town lean for me goes to wavemode.

Can't follow the way you sorted him for yourself. seems so lacking of a slot to sort for me yet

Spoiler:

Post 188 also seems to be spot-on on

Stephen A Smith

. Repping into a game to post a completely random, unsubstantiated suspicion list (71) and then get into a heated argument with the top "culprit" just doesn't make sense as town play at all. Is this some kind of past-game grudge that I don't know of? 82 seems to be suggesting that, but then, in 156

Dwlee99

claims they know nothing of it.

You not about to stand there pretending you have the short term memory of a goldfish on me are you?

The pressure

Stephen A Smith

is seemingly putting on

Dwlee99

seems completely out of place to me.

As for their later posts, the rebuffs to their obviously very disruptive play seem to be overly aggressive, as in 192 or 196. Sure, they've repped in a short while ago, but why would it even matter when almost all they've literally posted is unnecessary banter.

VOTE: Stephen A Smith until they convince me they're town.

maybe stephen town for continuing to persits 1 thing instead of just letting it go(cuz it doesn't benefit him as mafia to do this).

This depends on who Stephen's main is

The playstyle reminds me of House.

And yes, I would say that spamming the crap out of the game benefits the mafia hugely and acts as a distracting force.

1 - I don't agree that it was spamming by the literal meaning. It was reaction hunting from what I saw and I actually liked it.
2 - I can't understand why you think them putting pressure (even if it was unwarranted and without a previous reason) on dwelee scummy. Putting pressure solves slots. how is that a scum doing by nature in your point of view?
3 - Why guilty until proven innocent mindset?

even with the above 3 observations on your read here, I think that this is not busy working and is an actual attempt to make a read. anyways need to check its consistency yet.

and I liked the next post so there is that

Spoiler:

tbh this entire interaction doesnt seem AI at all

Am I really the only one that finds this bad?

Stephan had a list of scumreads for ??? reason. DW was pissed b/c he was on it and it was unexplained. It's content. Deciphering wich alignment the content comes from can be tricky but just throwing your hands up and saying that it was meaningless is dumb
and scummy

I get that they were both angry, but all that came out of it was "I said it" "No you didn't". This type of interaction(from both players) is not town leaning in any way

also I don't tr Hockey for realz 27,28 come from maf not town

why

this is a bad response

Damm I'm sorry I wanted to know why someone sr'd me for making a read

I probs have Dwlee as town(for now) for 16,20 and 34

ridiculous read

yes I'll admit I ahve not played alot fo games with Dwlee, but thier first few posts seemed towny ish/willing to get game out of RVS(yes I dont know thier mafia range, but I still think its town)

How is 56 weird in any way lol @Stephen

"They were both angry" why would they be angry when stephen just replaced in, and dwelee had his first vote and omgused. both tried there to at least seem to be solving each other. Their action there is 100% alignment indicative by all standards as its part of the mindset they follow.

I still don't get why you find the posts irrelivent?

[Frozen Angel]

actually skimming the last 2 pages cause I have to go for a bit, I find what scorpius said about dwlee not being angry flagging since he actually had angry responses back then - nero also called it in.

Why would Steven do this as scum?

"to seem townie" is the simple answer to any question of the form "why would he do that as scum?" ...

Hated the hockey's question. Liked the answer given. Such an absurd question to ask.

Doing whatever he did is not the way scum wants to "seem townie". Like imagine this, you, a player seemingly thrust yourself into the thread and cause chaos to give yourself more attention then originally. Why would you do that as scum?

I have a genuine question hockey, how much experience with mafia games do you have?

@Scorpious Nothing is alignment indicative on its own but everything makes sense with either a town mind set or scum mind set when connecting all the dots and see their behavior as a whole.

Stephan dropping a list that looked random: not AI
Stephan reacting and pushing back dewele for voting him over that list not AI

Stephan doing both of the above though was either reaction hunting - which persists with where he got at later on in his posts or was pretending to be doing it which still persists with where he got with that read later on.

when you see someone behavior as a whole you can only judge how one action of them even if its completely nonalignment indicative based on their meta, can be meaningful for one thought process (for town or mafia)

Hope I explained the mess of a read and thought process I have on the slot right now and where I'm getting at more clearly

[Frozen Angel]

actually skimming the last 2 pages cause I have to go for a bit, I find what scorpius said about dwlee not being angry flagging since he actually had angry responses back then - nero also called it in.

as they had*

sorry about the pronoun <3

[Frozen Angel]

Your questions were pretty much "is everything you're doing random" and his response was "yea" (simplifying it by too much actually )

Just was curious about your thought process when you were sorting the slot as I believe that's what you were doing there

[Frozen Angel]

You town read him for honesty about admitting with putting random votes and making random comments? or did you find something else in his process that made sense to you about how he is progressing the game for himself?

[Frozen Angel]

explain please. what in their syntax was towny for you?

[Frozen Angel]

I read the previous posts.

The thing for me is that they were not under any sort of pressure though. The questions were very straightforward and they came up with the simplest answers to all of them that couldn't reflect their anxiety in any way. I was just trying to see what you saw there and can't.

I trust and understand people have different methods to pursue in a mafia game and most of them reach valid conclusions many times from different points of view. I respect that so I'm not gonna call your read baseless but in the meantime, I can't follow your thought process on it at all.

[Frozen Angel]

Page 8 - I TR Stephen over hockey, call me crazy but I think stephen might be town

are you catching up or did you just think to post about page 8 now as you think it's relevant to your recent read?

[Frozen Angel]

yeah continue please

[Frozen Angel]

Spoiler:

Greeting,
We need a centered Stephen a VS DWLEE stat!!!

Also, Stephen is my new favorite player, I read every post in his voice.

getting extra town vibes here. again they saw what I clearly see too

was this a serious note

I just

felt

that they were seeing Stephan dwlee talks in the same way I was seeing that I explained in 264.

[Frozen Angel]

and them not directly intervening in it and just remotely mentioning it about how they feel there felt coming from a town mindset looking at the back and forth

[Frozen Angel]

I guess I like andates latest catch up posts. at first I felt she is just jumping on the TR made on stephen and scum read on hockey but it feels more natural now and I can follow the thoughts.

[Frozen Angel]

@frozen angel, hm i don't get that from scorpious' post. looks like he's saying "y'all are misbehaving" and "this gimmick account is fun". don't really see that as similar to your take, which has a real opinion. seems more like he is acknowledging it without actually saying anything about it. he does go back later and look at it more closely, but idk, just seemed like a weird post to get town vibes from due to agreement

I just liked the very slight hint toward liking the slot without jumping in on it. When I say I get town vibe, I didn't mean I town read the slot because of it. Just that I liked the reaction and I can see a town mind set doing it (because that's how I was thinking there as well)

if it makes sense.

I have a really weird play style from old days

[Frozen Angel]

Can you explain why eyes are so high in your list

[Frozen Angel]

imo full lists like that are easy to tear apart, at this stage of the game i don't think anyone would really be able to sort things that precisely, prob just general groupings. putting everyone ordered without any tiers is just asking to get overanalyzed. since he's at the bottom, i can see why scorpious would want to poke at it, and i don't think it's bad to do so (cause he thinks its a bad list if he's town, or cause it's something easy to pick at if he's maf). not sure which one this looks more like though, ill think on that

and fwiw i don't think it's a very good list either but i don't really think that makes it more likely to come from maf. maf could either just give the top 5 townreads as requested, or put some more work in to make the list look a little more convincing. i don't see much scum motivation to do a kinda sloppy partway finished list that doesn't have much to support it and won't hold up strong if anyone looks closely at it. i do see how some of those could just be gut calls and honest reads from town, and the important/stronger ones have mostly been justified already

yeah definitely. any early reads in this stage of game can be torn apart and lists like that don't say much on their own.

The reason I questioned why eye is so high in their list is,

Early townreads on both Andante and Dwlee for seemingly being the driving forces of the game getting out of RVS so quickly.

heck yeah!! giving me credit for getting out of RVS? I'll take it!! lol I genuinely hate RVS, glad we got out of it so fast!!

that's the only interaction made by Andante about eye and eye has really close to nothing posted in game to be that high in any list

So it just felt really out of place

[Frozen Angel]

i cannot imagine why anyone would have an eyes without a face read in either direction unless they are process of elimination sorting, but we can ignore that for now

exactly

I don't get it. neither voting the slot or town reading it makes any sense. specially town reading it unless if some sort of meta is involved

[Frozen Angel]

nero cain, scorpious, eyes without a face are giving me scum vibes

explain the nero read? an answer of "ehh idk gut" will no longer be accepted

I don't fully follow 65. I get it, andante said 27 was scummy and some people agreed. you're just going to sheep that as your whole reason for voting hockey? there's a lot more in hockeyfan's ISO than 27 and 155

and I don't follow his 197 either. nero himself seems unsure of stephen's alignment, and unsure of the motive for his aggression, in his own 255. so why is hockeyfan being unsure of that such a problem. also, hockeyfan is nowhere near the only person who said they felt the argument was NAI. and also also, his basic argument that this behavior is scummy doesn't really make a ton of sense. overall this feels like a big reach to justify his wagon position

every time nero posts I feel like I keep asking myself whether he's really trying to solve this game, or just trying to appear like he is. and I keep arriving at the latter being more likely, when I compare this game to past games I've played with him

also, more generally: my knee-jerk reaction to your question is to counter-question, why does a scum read NEED to not be gut? Let's say my nero read had been pure gut. I think if I were actively trying to convince people to vote nero with me, the discussion of whether I have logical reasoning becomes more relevant. but if it's just a gut read and I'm not even voting him, I don't quite see what the problem with that is. I guess I'm just trying to understand where you're coming from with this post? I will probably have gut reads in the future, do you believe they should not be shared?

This read looks forced for me.

Like, the first sentence is contradicting itself. if you get that the post was scum read/scummy, what's weird about it being voted? Just cause someone else also had the read, nero couldn't say the same thing?

and he clearly gave a read on the interaction in 255 even though its not a certain read (there is no such thing as a certain read without role actions btw) which is opposite to hookie calling it directly not AI at all.

and if its a gut read just insist that its a gut read. why would you wanna force reasons for your read?

[Frozen Angel]

hockey*

[Frozen Angel]

Like, the first sentence is contradicting itself. if you get that the post was scum read/scummy, what's weird about it being voted? Just cause someone else also had the read, nero couldn't say the same thing?

Well, no. I get that *andante* said it was scummy. But that doesn't mean I find it scummy (personally I'm leaning town on hockey), and that certainly doesn't mean I like nero sheeping that reasoning

so andante finds it scummy

and nero said later they find it scummy

why is nero finding it scummy giving you scum vibes on nero but you didn't get same vibes from andante?

[Frozen Angel]

why did you ignore the rest of my post there? about his post 255 and the other contradictions that I found in your read?

[Frozen Angel]

that was @wave

[Frozen Angel]

I have like 4-5 played fourm games(so really not that much)

so have you ever played as mafia

[Frozen Angel]

why is nero finding it scummy giving you scum vibes on nero but you didn't get same vibes from andante?

again, it was the sheeping, frozen, the sheeping. and not just in isolation, it is in the context of the rest of his play. this game it all seems lazy

How is having the same idea about some post scum indicative?

[Frozen Angel]

and he clearly gave a read on the interaction in 255 even though its not a certain read (there is no such thing as a certain read without role actions btw) which is opposite to hookie calling it directly not AI at all.

I already mentioned all the issues I had with it, namely that he himself recognizes that there are many different possibilities for his motivations, and the fact that several other people besides hockeyfan also considered it NAI

and if its a gut read just insist that its a gut read. why would you wanna force reasons for your read?

uuh because it's not purely a gut read? I don't understand this question

How is having the same idea about some post scum indicative?

is this whole back and forth going to be a constant "I think grass is good because it's green" and then you respond "why do you think grass is good just because it's red?"

as I already said, it's not the read, it's the *lazy play*

considering several different possibilities is

solving

. calling something NAI is different. So you having the same idea as others about that conversation being NAI, is by your logic lazy play/sheeping and a scummy act?

about the second part, Why would you say that about gut reads then? I don't understand why you had to explain

how you don't have to explain gut reads

in detail right after giving logic about the read (and saying that it wasn't pure gut read). Seems like a contradictory pov.

and no I'm just trying to put you in a conversation to see how consistent you are and if you can explain the contradiction in your thought process or not. How do you read our back and forth right now?

[Frozen Angel]

I've never faced such strong defense for someone I'm not voting before

if only eyes without a face had such an advocate

Just to clarify

I'm not defending nero in slightest

I have no developed read on nero

I just find your logic about him "with issues" and am using it to understand you better

[Frozen Angel]

I can not for the life of me figure out how to ISO(sorry!), so you can just have the link(this is the site i played on) -> https://mafiascum-closedgame.freeforums ... waterfalls

How can someone who played as mafia and lived till later phases, not know that scum can fake their town play and to look as aggressive and pushy to gain town read, even after it was directly mentioned in the thread as the reason by someone believing that could have been the fake play in response to the same post?

and I mean this post:

stephen looks a lot worse off that than dwlee does to me. pushing a pointless point and acting like you caught someone in something? hmm. i can see a certain type of scum player doing that, whether because he really thinks he has a point (he doesn't, dwlee is right here) or because he knows that dumb extended fights like that a lot of times will make others skim and assume both are town

I need you to expand on this. Why would Steven do this as scum? He spent 2 pages trying to get an answer for a mostly "mild" sus from Dwlee. If stephen is mafia, he can really just ignore dwlee's read(or play it off), what is the benefit of doing what stephen did as scum there?

[Frozen Angel]

Nearly no action in isolation can indicate alignment. Alignments become more probable (turn to actual valuable reads) when you observe a pattern of behavior and make links between them.

Being alignment indicative means it's relevant to game solving when it's observed alongside the other clues to produce reads.

anyways that discussion is going nowhere. Your point is coming across, you're saying Nero called it not NAI but then said contradictory reads about the interaction. My point was him solving based on the actual thing, even if he has contradictory ideas about the incident means he considers it alignment indicative.

Guess I'm satisfied with your consistency there with your point of view, however.

about the second question I don't know how to rephrase lmao,
The read was a semi gut read but had a reason behind it right? So what was your point in adding that part about how gut reads don't need reason after giving (I still think forced) reasons about it?

[Frozen Angel]

How do you read our back and forth right now?

I read what you're doing, yes, but you're ignoring large swathes of each of my sentences in order to do it

which parts did I ignore

[Frozen Angel]

which parts did I ignore

lol well let's use the latest example:

The read was a semi gut read but had a reason behind it right? So what was your point in adding that part about how gut reads don't need reason after giving (I still think forced) reasons about it?

your question here is ignoring the very fundamental question I was asking fire, namely:

I will probably have gut reads

in the future

, do you believe they should not be shared?

How is that response about not providing reasons for gut reads is relevant to that question?

[Frozen Angel]

@wave I didn't say I didn't like the question. I didn't understand what the point of posting that paragraph about how gut reads doesn't need reason was relevant to your question about having or not having gut reads in the future. as they seem completely irrelevant, or am I not getting something?

Anyways I gotta sleep,

I would vote hockey overall slots right now but he would be 2 votes away from a yeet and I still have work to do before I commit to a read.

Am really interested to see how the rest of the slots react to recent developments as for most parts today I felt the town was leading the game in directions, so it feels that either scum is very smart and hidden or good at acting like inexperienced players or scum is inactive. That's my first take on this in the few hours that I caught up and interacted with few people here.

Have a good night/morning/evening everyone

pedit: yeah, I just find a bunch of his posts out of place. like the most inconsistent thought process so far is seen in hockey and it just doesn't fit. So I kinda approve that wagon. Just want to do more ground work first though.

[Frozen Angel]

I dont think scum do it AS SOON as they rep in and especially on page 3

well if that is your real opinion, never underestimate people capabilities in pretending their town game when they are mafia

[Frozen Angel]

Well I know this is going to bring a lot of heat my way but I should let you all know I tend to suspect replacements more. I guess it was DGB (if memory serves me right) that once said if we eliminate all replacements town always wins (or something to that effect).

Anyway welcome FA.

Also @Andante I do appreciate the townread but something tells me I have yet to earn it. Do you tend to townread people who townread you?

Do you always go after replacements in your games?

[Frozen Angel]

I already did and fa didn't like it.

Well, it's a weird take and absolutely wrong especially for people who got forced replaced by a mod before even posting once, and maybe only would work if it was a trust tell for that said player. It's like saying it's more probable that a coin will always fall on its head side. and you saying it the way you did, especially since we had multiple replace in this same game (Dwlee99, Nero Cain, Stephan) and you only mentioned me, so makes me wonder

Do you have actual reasoning for your suspicion or was it just that?

[Frozen Angel]

Do you tend to townread people who townread you?

yeah

oh and what

[Frozen Angel]

I don't like the way Nero handled this

that's pretty much trying to make people think about the theory and if it can be legit (light shading like you said) and then distancing from it as someone else suggested it.

[Frozen Angel]

Inception

[Frozen Angel]

you know what I mean though. you of all people with this vast gaming experience should know that even if someone said that somewhere, its so moot and gateway to all sorts of fallacies. so didn't understand why you thought it's a good idea to even consider it and then attack it on the next post yourself

that just didn't sit well with me

[Frozen Angel]

In fairness, there actually is a theory that most replace outs are done by scum but bringing it up is dumb

Simply I just didn't

like

this post coming from you.

I'm not having it both ways. I just said it's unsettling the way you mention it exists but call it dumb in one post. I know you didn't contradict yourself there and that wasn't my point. I'm just saying to even considering such a theory exists by you makes no sense to me.

[Frozen Angel]

or was there some sort of major theory crafting out there for real about this while I was gone from the website?

[Frozen Angel]

It's not your conclusion that was unsettling with me even though I don't find him using that inherently scum motivated.

So he said because of this theory, I think to replace ins are more likely scum: This is pretty much a low hanging fruit slot with 0 contexts before this, saying something completely pointless again

2 people vote for him and I express my concern, then you first

give the theory some legitimacy

and then call him bad for using it. Now again I don't find that contradictory I just don't like how it was constructed to that point because I know you.

Now about my own read so far is that it was

weird and so sudden

that they tried to use that to generate a read on that moment and if it's not their typical playstyle (which would be an awful one) and he had no other legit reasons behind it (especially since he specifically mentioned me when there were 3 other replace ins), it's pretty much fabricated.

[Frozen Angel]

everyone is different so its not like town do this and town don't do that, scum do this and scum don't do that but on average I think town are quicker to vote and scum are more hesitant. In my most recent game (the one before this) scum attacked me for moving my vote within 12 hours.

I meant fast switch as shifting the mindset on a single entity without actually giving the previous mindset a chance. not because of vote shift.

Like there she first says "hockey is like someone I can't read right now" someone else dumps an idea in and they go like "yeah we can do this". seems too pushover

I agree that it can be from town, but being pushover with ideas in general like that is a scummy trait as towns tend to be more independent with their progress in-game and game atmosphere makes them naturally suspicious of other people around them for them to follow others ideas so easily over their own idea.

again no action is inherently scummy. it might be just their personality. guess we'll see consistancies.

[Frozen Angel]

Another slot which is easy to suspect is Eyes without a face who is also their current choice of vote. Sure, they're also rather questionable, but I feel that it's just the easy road for scum to go after someone who's obviously standing out for not posting very much when in fact it's more likely to be NAI than scum. The speed in which the Eyes without a face wagon gained votes is concerning. Then again, he does have a point with 355 - that is a read that can be explained from a town point of view. If wavemode is town then I guess we just differ in the judgement of 217, which I think isn't very scummy and is NAI at best. This could unfortunately also make a point from a scum point of view if wavemode is treating Eyes without a face as an easy Day 1 miselimination.

um, why is this entire paragraph telling nothing? like you're saying everything is NAI pretty much and irrelevant?

[Frozen Angel]

(voting person with lesser wagon)

Why?

[Frozen Angel]

Never called you LHF. I said you haven't posted alot of content, and even the content u did post recently is make up a list, and simultaneously dismiss peoples inquires about that list

> haven't posted a lot so I'm voting you
umm I know it's shocking to believe, but whether people post or not really isn't an alignment indicative thing, like, 6 days left for D1 here, I've been busy, like I'll definitely have content, don't worry about that lol. Isn't it better to look at those who have given content thus far and determine if it comes from town or scum? Like, just cause I haven't posted isn't a reason to vote me lol that seems like the easy way out of "hmmm who to vote" like, you're just voting someone who isn't here, how does that do much?


>made a list but....
I made a list did I not? I skimmed, gave yall my thoughts based on how people were interacting, I'm not saying bottom of my list is lock scum or top was lock town, I'm saying in relation to each other that's how I was reading people

when I'm 100+ posts behind yes I approach the game differently to when I'm not behind, and there's still plenty of time left in this day phase so I wouldn't stress over "OMG I NEED AN ANDANTE READ" it's day 1... lmao unless yall plan on ending the day super early, I'll out top SRs sooo not sure why we're worried about me tbh

I still really want to know why you had a town read on eyes so high in your list (in your third spot)

answer that for me please

[Frozen Angel]

I guess I'm warming up with hockey a tiny bit even though he is not really doing the best job convincing he is a town, but he has been kinda constant with dropping Newby tells in his own way and explaining himself

Like I still have so many concerns about this slot but I wanna see what he does later on before pursuing that direction.

then again

there aren't many slots I actually town read specifically

even if I can feel the general push is directed by town right now, cause there are many things getting pursued at the same time and it's just radiating that (scary) vibe major debtors are solving the game and all are town, so it makes me inclined to search for scum in the people who are playing silly or are distancing from debates.

so for me, my vote currently kinda has to go on either Andate which is fluff posting and fabricating stuff but has yet to catch up again they say, eyes which is actually a good vote even without much content posted cause that moves of them for going after that theory just felt so fake, and it gives a good insight about the people who gave reads around the slot without having any reasons and the wagon that got constructed on him.

Guess after that I actually have Greeting and Nero to sort and hockey to look at carefully

I'm kinda satisfied with wave constancy back there when I fired questions on him, and I liked Stephen and fire and scorpions slots a tire above everyone else toward a town lean

and I just realized we have 2 completely afk accounts in-game so will be interesting to have them participate, as I said I can sense that most conversations are being directed by town right now

Gonna do my vote here actually

VOTE: Andante

[Frozen Angel]

I actually did that post and am thinking about it now, and I see hockey said the exact same thing about his suspects in last page and it kinda makes me both doubt myself and feel better about him a tiny bit. guess we'll see where this goes

[Frozen Angel]

Another slot which is easy to suspect is Eyes without a face who is also their current choice of vote. Sure, they're also rather questionable, but I feel that it's just the easy road for scum to go after someone who's obviously standing out for not posting very much when in fact it's more likely to be NAI than scum. The speed in which the Eyes without a face wagon gained votes is concerning. Then again, he does have a point with 355 - that is a read that can be explained from a town point of view. If wavemode is town then I guess we just differ in the judgement of 217, which I think isn't very scummy and is NAI at best. This could unfortunately also make a point from a scum point of view if wavemode is treating Eyes without a face as an easy Day 1 miselimination.

um, why is this entire paragraph telling nothing? like you're saying everything is NAI pretty much and irrelevant?

Is saying that something is NAI telling nothing in your opinion? I disagree.

No, I mean it's just not conclusive or directed, as it's not really stating anything to push the game forward (for even yourself)

everything done by players is alignment indicative, maybe not alone but when seen as a pattern of behavior they can only come from a town mindset or scum mindset and town is not here to be certain, town is here to find which mindset is more probable. so calling things irrelevant and just not forming any opinions about them and then saying no opinion can be found based on them (specially in this case where that is all eye did in game so far so that is by itself a pattern of behavior) is either lazy work or distancing

[Frozen Angel]

I just want to mention that Eye is not a lurker and I don't like how the term is being used repeatedly to call the slot unreadable

They actually fabricated a bunch of reads when questioned

and had some reactions in-game.

If you mean lurker as not a hyperactive poster, yeah but that's just a personality trait unless it can be evaluated with meta in another way.

[Frozen Angel]

Spoiler:

Another slot which is easy to suspect is Eyes without a face who is also their current choice of vote. Sure, they're also rather questionable, but I feel that it's just the easy road for scum to go after someone who's obviously standing out for not posting very much when in fact it's more likely to be NAI than scum. The speed in which the Eyes without a face wagon gained votes is concerning. Then again, he does have a point with 355 - that is a read that can be explained from a town point of view. If wavemode is town then I guess we just differ in the judgement of 217, which I think isn't very scummy and is NAI at best. This could unfortunately also make a point from a scum point of view if wavemode is treating Eyes without a face as an easy Day 1 miselimination.

um, why is this entire paragraph telling nothing? like you're saying everything is NAI pretty much and irrelevant?

Is saying that something is NAI telling nothing in your opinion? I disagree.

No, I mean it's just not conclusive or directed, as it's not really stating anything to push the game forward (for even yourself)

everything done by players is alignment indicative, maybe not alone but when seen as a pattern of behavior they can only come from a town mindset or scum mindset and town is not here to be certain, town is here to find which mindset is more probable. so calling things irrelevant and just not forming any opinions about them and then saying no opinion can be found based on them (specially in this case where that is all eye did in game so far so that is by itself a pattern of behavior) is either lazy work or distancing

I disagree, but I guess opinions may differ.

If I say something is NAI, I'm simply shelving sorting the slot until he/she/they start posting AI content. In most cases I find something else from someone else that

is

AI. I don't know about you, but I find it impossible to sort all slots in the game on Day 1, and sometimes up until the end of game (though I've survived until endgame only once on MafiaScum).

well I guess we're getting semantical here. is ok if you don't want to make a read on eye based on his posts so far.

I just want to mention that Eye is not a lurker and I don't like how the term is being used repeatedly to call the slot unreadable

They actually fabricated a bunch of reads when questioned

and had some reactions in-game.

If you mean lurker as not a hyperactive poster, yeah but that's just a personality trait unless it can be evaluated with meta in another way.

Oh? Do go on.

I explained it before

Now about my own read so far is that it was weird and so sudden that they tried to use that to generate a read on that moment and if it's not their typical playstyle (which would be an awful one) and he had no other legit reasons behind it (especially since he specifically mentioned me when there were 3 other replace ins), it's pretty much fabricated.

I find the use of that theory in that specific moment when they got questioned to participate and their lack of mentioning all other replaced slots in-game with that theory fabricated.

it can be a fabrication as a lazy town who is like yeah I just say something cause I'm asked and see where that gets me (he even predicted he'll get heat for it)
or from a mafia who really can't engage as the conversation is town-dominated.

I actually think that I lean on the first right now but I have my doubts.

[Frozen Angel]

So, can you expand on this thought of you have of "there are many things getting pursued at the same time, so most of it must be coming from town". Why cant mafia start pushing their own reads(if their partner is under fire a bit)

It was just a feeling that most people are passing the tests of consistencies I do when I iso read them. pushing several directions and staying consistent is vibing me that the general debate is lead by attitude of game solving.

it's more like my sixth sense telling me that. I'm not basing any of my reads on that sense actually as I also said in same post I don't have any solid townreads and that worries me while I started to feel way better about several slots I questioned during the day so far and have general good feeling and was not alarmed by several other slots.

[Frozen Angel]

Early townreads on both Andante and Dwlee for seemingly being the driving forces of the game getting out of RVS so quickly.

Well I know this is going to bring a lot of heat my way but I should let you all know I tend to suspect replacements more. I guess it was DGB (if memory serves me right) that once said if we eliminate all replacements town always wins (or something to that effect).

Anyway welcome FA.

Also @Andante I do appreciate the townread but something tells me I have yet to earn it. Do you tend to townread people who townread you?

Dwlee99 replaces LicketyQuickety.

yeap that's what I was trying to say.

[Frozen Angel]

yeap that's what I was trying to say

But isn't this a huge cognitive dissonance that indicates eyes is scum?

why would a cognitive dissonance mean the slot is scum and not just someone not paying attention?

why would a scum be like that compared to the possibility of a lazy town being like that?

I 100% am onboard that the reads are all fabricated however

[Frozen Angel]

There's a difference between cognitive dissonance and not paying attention/changing your mind etc.

And if you think all the reads are fabricated then ???

The slot is not doing work and the read they make is fabricated.

which is why he deserved a spot here in my read:

so for me, my vote currently kinda has to go on either Andate which is fluff posting and fabricating stuff but has yet to catch up again they say, eyes which is actually a good vote even without much content posted cause that moves of them for going after that theory just felt so fake, and it gives a good insight about the people who gave reads around the slot without having any reasons and the wagon that got constructed on him.

I just have enough experience to not instantly call the slot scum even for fabricating reads and have this doubt that with their self-awareness that doing it will bring them heat/they might just be the lazy town not doing anything and wanting to run away from questions - even though I was the first person who called this and repeatedly emphasized on it when people tried to move on from actually investigating the slot

[Frozen Angel]

It's not your conclusion that was unsettling with me even though I don't find him using that inherently scum motivated.

So he said because of this theory, I think to replace ins are more likely scum: This is pretty much a low hanging fruit slot with 0 contexts before this, saying something completely pointless again

2 people vote for him and I express my concern, then you first

give the theory some legitimacy

and then call him bad for using it. Now again I don't find that contradictory I just don't like how it was constructed to that point because I know you.

Now about my own read so far is that it was

weird and so sudden

that they tried to use that to generate a read on that moment and if it's not their typical playstyle (which would be an awful one) and he had no other legit reasons behind it (especially since he specifically mentioned me when there were 3 other replace ins), it's pretty much fabricated.

I explained my stance on the slot here first if you missed it

[Frozen Angel]

There's a difference between cognitive dissonance and not paying attention/changing your mind etc.

also in no context, I didn't mean that I believe they changed their mind

I really am sure the read is fabricated. a fabricating a read has a purpose/logical process.

I just don't consider it inherently scum motivated in this context.

[Frozen Angel]

Do you have actual reasoning for your suspicion or was it just that?

You're really killing me with this line of questioning. I mentioned it as a general concept and even referenced DGB as a source but since you're being adamant to pursue the subject then yes I happen to know some of those who did replace out before making a single post hate to play scum and are likely to rep out if the team didn't appeal to them.

why did you suspect T3 replacing out and not any other slots? or why did you suspect me replacing in and not any other replaced in slots?

[Frozen Angel]

it was dumb when she said it and it's still dumb when you agreed with it.

calling it dumb won't make it dumb really. But yeah I actually didn't like greeting calling it a great post either

[Frozen Angel]

@Dwlee, in 505, u said eyes+FA could be partnered(presumably cuz of 503?), but why are u big on that being a partnery psot, when the same logic can be applied to u. Eyes TR'D you even after u being a replacement

FA defense + Eyes treating me and FA different for same thing could indicate FA and I are different alignments if eyes is scum which would make me think she is scum

first - what defense?

You're going in a tunnel vision on them for their replace theory thing. we both see their reads are fake but you outright go from that to them being mafia and I don't because I'm just not gonna agree with it that it can't be done by town. That doesn't mean I'm defending the slot. I was questioning it way earlier than you jumped on its wagon and did way more to sort the slot and the people jumping to vote him than you.

then you go with association hunting which is consistent with your previous line of thinking and behavior so I actually like your slot a bit more for saying it; even if it's the recipe for failure.

[Frozen Angel]

Well I know this is going to bring a lot of heat my way but I should let you all know I tend to suspect replacements more. I guess it was DGB (if memory serves me right) that once said if we eliminate all replacements town always wins (or something to that effect).

Anyway welcome FA.

Also @Andante I do appreciate the townread but something tells me I have yet to earn it. Do you tend to townread people who townread you?

Maybe not but statistically scum replace out more than town do and especially so at the start of the game. Someone who doesn't like to play scum or someone who didn't like their teammates or someone who thought one of their own are going down too early. I do not promote it to be a 100% plan but early replacement have a higher %age of being scum than you would expect.

these were my two posts in concern and I don't see anyone's particular name except if you count my saying hello to you which still doesn't say I suspected you and nobody else

so now you're saying that the replace post was not even directed at me?

[Frozen Angel]

Do you have actual reasoning for your suspicion or was it just that?

You're really killing me with this line of questioning. I mentioned it as a general concept and even referenced DGB as a source but since you're being adamant to pursue the subject then yes I happen to know some of those who did replace out before making a single post hate to play scum and are likely to rep out if the team didn't appeal to them.

why did you suspect T3 replacing out and not any other slots? or why did you suspect me replacing in and not any other replaced in slots?

Where did I say I suspected you or t3 and no one else? citation needed if you please

Anyway welcome FA.

I already did and fa didn't like it.

Why repeated mention of me when you openly hint after your theory then?

these were my two posts in concern and I don't see anyone's particular name except if you count my saying hello to you which still doesn't say I suspected you and nobody else

i think the "inconsistency" between the way eyes has treated the different replacement slots is dumb and am side eyeing anyone taking that seriously. i mean, what, he said "welcome FA"? y'all mad he didn't welcome you? i don't get it

did you just use what fire said to backtrack on your expressed read

[Frozen Angel]

Like I wasn't even posting there why did you say fa didn't like it if it was not you pointing finger toward my slot?

[Frozen Angel]

no, you didn't mean it as a general concept. You specifically mentioned my slot twice right after the theory

VOTE: Eyes without a face

[Frozen Angel]

Like I wasn't even posting there why did you say fa didn't like it if it was not you pointing finger toward my slot?

because

203

Early townreads on both Andante and Dwlee for seemingly being the driving forces of the game getting out of RVS so quickly.

what?! I just read the game and this just makes no sense

so you're saying you didn't say the theory to even remotely hint that you

find me scummier than others

and the greeting was just a greeting

and that

eyes, is that the only thought you have on the thread? more please, give some opinions on people at least

I already did and fa didn't like it.

This was in reference to me saying "you state that you have early tr on adante and dwlee for taking the game out of RVS, making no sense"?

[Frozen Angel]

How do you feel about how different slots reacted to you getting heat and voted?

can you try to analyze the votes/suspicions against you?

[Frozen Angel]

what about greetings, Hockey's and fires takes on it

can you elaborate on why you think Nero's reaction was the best and dwlee's was worse?

[Frozen Angel]

what about greetings, Hockey's and fires takes on it

can you elaborate on why you think Nero's reaction was the best and dwlee's was worse?

Greeting, Hockey and fire are not even replacements so the intended pressure wasn't directed at them. Nero's reaction was good because he acknowledged the existence of a=such a theory even if he personally didn't believe in it. Dwlee was bad because they voted me without trying to engage or discuss the theory at all. It looked like a reason they used to place a vote on someone they thought might be an easy lim

if it's what you thought, why you didn't vote dwelee back

[Frozen Angel]

because that would have been used against me by scum and ignorant town alike. It would have been portrayed as an OMGUS vote nno more.

so scared that it would be called omgus and you would gain more heat, you decided to hide your suspicion on the slot you actually scum read the most because of the way they reacted to you

If you are generally a person who cares about not getting heat why did you announce that theory about replacements knowing you would gain heat for it (as you mentioned you know that you would)

[Frozen Angel]

Vote me back or die a coward

He claimed we understood it wrong that he was hinting at my slot with his theory posted

what do you about what he said? how will this change your opinion on the slot if it will?

[Frozen Angel]

If you are generally a person who cares about not getting heat why did you announce that theory about replacements knowing you would gain heat for it (as you mentioned you know that you would)

I am not scared of getting heat for a purpose but it's foolish to spoil your case before you think you can win it

Can I get a link or two to your previously finished town games if possible?

I want to come back to this later on.

[Frozen Angel]

also eye why is your vote still on Greeting

[Frozen Angel]

do you think you're winning a case against them?

[Frozen Angel]

If you are generally a person who cares about not getting heat why did you announce that theory about replacements knowing you would gain heat for it (as you mentioned you know that you would)

I am not scared of getting heat for a purpose but it's foolish to spoil your case before you think you can win it

Can I get a link or two to your previously finished town games if possible?

I want to come back to this later on.

Your join date is 2015. Surely you know how to get to my topics from my profile

yeah? But need to manually check games to see in which you were town etc one by one?

I will do that but why was it hard for you to post links of your games in here?

[Frozen Angel]

also eye why is your vote still on Greeting

because I didn't vote anyone since I put that on rvs

do you usually keep your rvs vote even when you have built actual reads on other slots?

pedit: so you suspect greeting? how so

[Frozen Angel]

2- Where did you get I suspect Greeting? You once again read something and understand it as a totally different thing. I said I voted Greetings in RVS and didn't vote anyone since. How does that translate into a scum read in your eyes?

do you think you're winning a case against them?

back then it was a definite no. Right now I am not sure. I'd rather wait and see what happens next.

I thought that this response was meant about greeting, was this about dwlee then?

why did you think pushing him if you suspect him will not be followed with any support by anyone else "with a definite no"?

[Frozen Angel]

over everything you come and comment about the post where I ask to study his meta?

do you have any comments about ... like anything else? how a push on the eye was formed and how did people and he react to it and stuff for instance?

[Frozen Angel]

@Andate

Cause to me, obv I'd need to go ISO, at least 1 of yall is maf, cause it's much easier for maf to argue about non game related stuff than anything pertaining to this game

He specifically said that he has a scum read on a slot but will not vote on it cause it brings heat to his slot.

because that would have been used against me by scum and ignorant town alike. It would have been portrayed as an OMGUS vote nno more.

earlier in this same game, he said a theory that replacements are more likely scum even though he knew it will bring hit to his slot and he admitted that it probably will.

Well I know this is going to bring a lot of heat my way but I should let you all know I tend to suspect replacements more. I guess it was DGB (if memory serves me right) that once said if we eliminate all replacements town always wins (or something to that effect).

That's why I said I want to see his town games meta, just searching for his early game, never saw him being so conservative about swapping votes so far.

what do you think about this switch in the attidue?

[Frozen Angel]

ooh I have stuff I wanna say, I'll respond to 587 in the next 12 hours!! first thing I do here tomorrow is that!!

will wait for it impationetly

[Frozen Angel]

first thing I do here tomorrow is that!!

looking forward to this

[Frozen Angel]

welcome Umlaut.

[Frozen Angel]

Why did you have eye as your third town read in the list you posted before Andante?

I will read your posts in detail and will try to break down your reasoning and and answer to stuff you asked in a bit later when I'm home

[Frozen Angel]

@Frozen, ok I think I understand why you asked about meta, but in this case for someone with 0 game related content, do you really think meta would help? I really feel like reads with reasonings are better for reading people.. not "how did you play in past games" cause I'd almost guarantee you no town!Eyes games look anything remotely close to this game.

When investigating about how someone behavior makes a shift from not caring about heat to express theory - to not vote cause worried of gaining heat, meta helps to understand if it's because of their personality as a player - or maybe if they have another reason to not want to vote

And, I don't have a problem with not voting a SR, I have a problem with not seeing any strong reads in that ISO

Like, I read that.. WHY ARE 2 PEOPLE VOTING ME??? HAVE YOU 2 LOOKED AT EYES???

Eyes ISO is terrible, if it doesn't improve I'm voting there today

What about not having a strong read in day one makes the slot so scummy for you?

[Frozen Angel]

the one thing I see in adantes big post and I saw it too about hockey is his branching/backtracks with questions and pursues and his weird assurances and appeals to people, especially when it's about him making reads or others reading about him. Like post 50 was one the biggest posts I suspected when I was catching up.

I don't know hockey enough out of this game - just did a very fast look on links he sent and stuff to judge if its him being new or not.

stuff like this stand out to me too

Spoiler:

I can not for the life of me figure out how to ISO(sorry!), so you can just have the link(this is the site i played on) -> https://mafiascum-closedgame.freeforums ... waterfalls

How can someone who played as mafia and lived till later phases, not know that scum can fake their town play and to look as aggressive and pushy to gain town read, even after it was directly mentioned in the thread as the reason by someone believing that could have been the fake play in response to the same post?

and I mean this post:

stephen looks a lot worse off that than dwlee does to me. pushing a pointless point and acting like you caught someone in something? hmm. i can see a certain type of scum player doing that, whether because he really thinks he has a point (he doesn't, dwlee is right here) or because he knows that dumb extended fights like that a lot of times will make others skim and assume both are town

I need you to expand on this. Why would Steven do this as scum? He spent 2 pages trying to get an answer for a mostly "mild" sus from Dwlee. If stephen is mafia, he can really just ignore dwlee's read(or play it off), what is the benefit of doing what stephen did as scum there?

And his answer was "he doesn't expect scum to do it right when they replace in - which didn't answer the concern I had with it.

but for me hockey is like consistent with his inconsistencies (the same you said about eye fire ) so I'm a bit conflicted about how to approach my read on this slot

[Frozen Angel]

about eye I think I believe him about how he didn't mean to flag my slot with mentioning the theory after his answers earlier today. I was about to remove my vote but then he said he doesn't want heat for voting dwlee when its like his only scum read and it just alarmed the hell out of me specially in other few games I looked he felt way more vote/opinion happy in early games as town and someone who dumps a theory like that to reaction test (as he made reads on replacements reactions to his theory) wouldn't hesitate to actually make a push on someone he was persuing by throwing out a theory like that

So his idea and general game play are inconsistent with each other

[Frozen Angel]

Dwlee's reaction was by far the worst. 4Yours was weird and tilted I can't decide for sure but I think it's a personal trait. Nero's was the best and Stephen didn't address it I don't think

what about greetings, Hockey's and fires takes on it

can you elaborate on why you think Nero's reaction was the best and dwlee's was worse?

Greeting, Hockey and fire are not even replacements so the intended pressure wasn't directed at them. Nero's reaction was good because he acknowledged the existence of a=such a theory even if he personally didn't believe in it. Dwlee was bad because they voted me without trying to engage or discuss the theory at all. It looked like a reason they used to place a vote on someone they thought might be an easy lim

He even refused to even comment on the rest of people engagement about his theory.

then why would he care to get heat over making a push about the only read he claimed he got from his reaction testing?

Just feels inconsistant

[Frozen Angel]

a reminder to all players is that the l-word is not to be used.

replacing Surye and 0verki11.

Oh .. my .. God. Six replacements in the first half of the first game day. This game is getting harder by the minute.

these slots had literally close to nothing done

how it makes game harder if actual players who will be active and will respond replace them?

[Frozen Angel]

welcome Umlaut.

Wh6y do you suspect Umlaut?

I didn't say I think replace ins are scum right before greeting him lol

[Frozen Angel]

But nice one

[Frozen Angel]

We should make FaceBoy and HockeyDude pick teams for the superbowl and yeet the one that picks wrong

lol.

I'm gunning for the bengals to win, Joe Burrow deserves a SB.

I just reread the frozen/eyes stuff, did not get much out of it, but I like the way Frozen is playing, and I dont think the 2 are partners here

Not crazy about this post man, But yeah Go Bengals!!

If you re read and got nothing out of it, why tell us. That changes the gamestate literally 0. Not even needed to be typed. But, you continue on saying you like FA’s play and that you don’t think they are partners.

So you..did “get something”, and the quotes on get something because that something would be the most ineffectual “something” to take from the exchange..



You just pulled ahead of eyes for my vote unless you can explain this.

Actually. You can explain this to get my vote off.. this was bad posting man..

VOTE: Hockey

Thier whole discourse was mainly theory talk, and stemmed from eyes post of "sussing" replamcents/"not sussing replacmenets". I only took away the fact that they're not partners because if Frozen was eyes parnter, why would Frozen go down this path of questioning, when she can focus on other ppl

every time you post about game theory you look so fake.

Have you ever heard of a term called busying?

How can you have those many games as both town and mafia and not ever see a mafia pushing their mafia partner? Why would a scum=FA not want to push a scum-Eye if a scum-FA wanted to distance from them/look better when scum-eye flipped?

also not sure what to do about your half-ass claim. Not even sure why you thought claiming it like this will have any sort of effect in either direction.

[Frozen Angel]

Hi worst!!! Long time no see ^.^

btw, I'm at E-2, so I'll guess I'll claim,

I'm a backup of a role

I'm not gonna out anymore info about it unless I'm forced to

You probably should be voting me fi this is true. I hard claim VT. No big deal if I am the lim if you have a better role than mine.

this interaction looks like two townies

what about it feels like that?

Nah fr though id power-yeet every town power role claim as either alignment if it felt right

I just think hockey has a towny vibe

you got town vibe of the claim post so what else was there if it wasn't the claim?

[Frozen Angel]

eyes's suspicion of dwlee feels more like deflection than the product of some sort of reaction test

in fact throughout his whole ISO I still have zero reason to believe he has actually followed the game at any point and formed any genuine reads on anyone based on any actual content

everything he's done lately is just an aggressive reaction to him being run up on votes to try to avoid being eliminated

Yeap. that's exactly why he still has my vote.

[Frozen Angel]

i think you're very quick to attribute to malice what is clearly attributable to laziness
not really sure what that makes eyes' alignment, but
VOTE: wavemode

I don't find eye read on dwlee and refusal to vote him lazy. I find it inconsistent with the mindset he was following to reach that point and scummy.

[Frozen Angel]

I'm liking wave posts a lot

eye is definitely not doing what he is doing cause of laziness lol

Like he genuinely threw in a theory - with no suspect - to gain heat to reaction test out of it but he refuses to even vote for the reaction he got out of it.

I've been checking his previous games for like few hours yesterday and never saw him being so conservative in his early day 1.

[Frozen Angel]

I actually like wave case on scorp. scorp being reacting to same stuff I was and giving shared reads on different topics with me (on different occasions). my main concern about the slot is from where he asked those questions of wave and then claimed it was reaction test/with no follow up and he said he likes wave after it but since then he keeps shading the slot on all occasions

like

Especially with the literal
Lowest hanging fruit on the bottom..

This is just as bad as Adante’s early naked list.

This reaction just screams fake. he was asked of his other reads and he sorted them. What's bad about making a read list based on his current impressions? That list is very informative actually and he has been explaining all his reads forever so what was inconsistent or alarming for you to make such a reaction to his read list?

Also calling Eye low-hanging fruit without ever developing a read on him based on all the heat that came after him earlier is just dodging the whole thing and his wagon IMO.

you have no idea why a claimed PR might be worth keeping alive? none?

what kind of claim was that even honestly. "I'm backup and I wont talk about it"?! Its timing was awful, he is not even under elimination pressure and we still had few days. he didn't even claim his role fully. Its just making no sense, not saying the claim is false, but I just don't get why he did it in such manner at all and I'm certainly not trusting the slot anymore than before.

His inconsistencies with his play style is pretty much consistent. Like he is goofy but he is goofy in every read about game theory he posts. and it just is consistent with his claim as well.

This just makes it really hard for me to consider him mafia while it doesn't make me feel he is town either. It's just putting him in not solvable position for me

[Frozen Angel]

This is weird because I disagree on both counts: I don't think this is much of a switch, but also I don't think fast switches are at all scummy. The opposite, really: making a big deal about wanting to go one way only to suddenly go another way is more extra-credit work than I expect from scum. If anything I would think this pair of posts is suspicious for the opposite reason: because 33 seems almost like "advertising" a willingness to eventually move to HockeyFan and setting up for 37.

Fast switch with a vote is fine. fast switch with ideas is not. It was still an early game switch though.

There Adante was like "yeah I wanna push hockey" "no I'm not pushing hockey he is hard to sort" "oh yeah you scum read him for the stuff I said I find scummy too, so I think he is a good push" in span of 3 consecutive posts. It just suggests she didn't have any mindset to actually sort the slot and was just vibing in with everyone else.

I don't find any action inherently scummy but being so pushover while you're trying to state a read is just alarming. She has been a bit consistent with that attidue however so it might be a personality trait.

[Frozen Angel]

...er, except this one. Did you quote the wrong post or something?

I felt like he is hinting that he finds Stephan's entrance and reaction testing towny with role play remarks. that's why I said it. I just liked it as slight mention without him jumping in and picking a side in that debate.

[Frozen Angel]

What do you like about them? They seem terrible to me, her reasoning on Scorpious and wavemode and HockeyFan are all tenuous at best for the reasons I already gave.

I was too fast in thinking I like her entrance there actually. I was feeling her calling out stephan was because of how others was saying it but then realized she is just catching up as she threw in other reads in between.

but then she went and made that absurd list when stephan asked him with eye as his third town read which was not making any sense as she was just catching up and she should have known the slot is just non existence. later she said that she liked eye post about how he likes dwlee and her cause they pushed game out of rvs - which itself was a terrible post anyway.

for me adante looks fake though. I didn't want to give her any credits for her wall posts later on about both eye/hockey either in 600 or 605. She practically opened their iso and wrote a story for each as if they are mafia without explaining/refuting why they can't be town doing the stuff their did. For example

Post 371 - You try to win Scorp over to your side, like "see!! I just acknowledged Andantes bad read!! I'll pocket uou now!" that's kinda how that reads tbh

@Scorpuis, has your read on wave changed(esp since they've started to give content(355/360)

Like I just like adante less for this and it feels like she is trying to shade hockey with stuff like that in her reads.

while I also agree with "some" stuff she said about how hockey was backtracking from his reads when questioned and how in general some stuff he says make no sense. but in general hockey's play style was so persistent in this game in whatever he does.

[Frozen Angel]

scum are far more likely to claim a PR to get out of an elimination than town unless said town is a pr. Not impossible that we did hit a town pr and I guess the correct play might be to give him a day or 2

Bad post from nero. Information over analysis. Nero is just saying nothing to progress a read about either of the top two wagons

first was

"yeah this theory exists but is really bad"

and then

"scum claims pr to get out of elimination unless if its actually a town who is pr". It literally translates to "he is likely telling a lie unless if its the truth"

absolutely alarming posting.

[Frozen Angel]

My top suspects right now in no order are

Nero, Andante, Eye

Everyone else did something or was consistent overall to make me feel better about them

[Frozen Angel]

I apologize for all pronouns missuses. I'm so sorry.

[Frozen Angel]

scum are far more likely to claim a PR to get out of an elimination than town unless said town is a pr. Not impossible that we did hit a town pr and I guess the correct play might be to give him a day or 2

Bad post from nero. Information over analysis. Nero is just saying nothing to progress a read about either of the top two wagons

first was

"yeah this theory exists but is really bad"

and then

"scum claims pr to get out of elimination unless if its actually a town who is pr". It literally translates to "he is likely telling a lie unless if its the truth"

absolutely alarming posting.

If you are going to throw around buzzwords at least use them correctly. The analysis part is "I guess the correct play might be to give him a day or 2" (yes I know I haven't unvoted which I'm sure you'll call me on. ) There's a scummy player (IMO) that is making a claim that scum could easily do. Which means what exactly? You didn't even react to his claim so you don't get to talk down to someone that did react.

As for the other part. Admitting that a theory exists is like normal? For the life of me, I can't understand why you (and greeting) think it's bad that I'm admitting that something that exists...exists. I called it bad b/c ignoring the whole game and pushing some silly theory 'cause it's bad and scummy. You are currently voting him wich also means that you think he was scum when he posted that. So if he's scum why is it bad that I called him out on it? You're doing this weird thing where you are talking out of both sides of your mouth but then again you probably aren't a town slot.

I'm not throwing buzzwords. I meant exactly what I said. We all know he is either scum or town. You literally said most scum who are getting lynched claim but so does town and then tried to distance yourself from the wagon.

Thats literally what a mafia would do if hockey is town.

The way you treat every push in game on the current major wagons is basically distancing yourself from making any sort of analysis over it by posting something about the technicalities related to them which I find the most alarming thing in the game right now

[Frozen Angel]

actually, I that back.

you did react.

what kind of claim was that even honestly. "I'm backup and I wont talk about it"?! Its timing was awful, he is not even under elimination pressure and we still had few days. he didn't even claim his role fully. Its just making no sense, not saying the claim is false, but I just don't get why he did it in such manner at all and I'm certainly not trusting the slot anymore than before.

here you a berating him for claiming. Just why? The first of your post is riding him for claiming but then you go on to say that "its not false" IYO. The only difference between our reactions is that you were already town reading him thus you believe his claim but I don't really understand why you are fussing at him.

I also don't get what "and I'm certainly not trusting the slot anymore than before" means.

I transparently explained my stance on hockey like a billion times so far. I feel like he is consistent with what he is doing if it seems goofy here and there.

The claim has literally 0 information or possibility for verify/validty check. It's literally the easiest fake claim anyone can do and it's not even complete. It just makes no sense to make such a claim when you're not even the one in danger of a certain elimination. So yeah. It makes no sense. It's another goofy play by hockey that makes reading him very complicated for me.

hence the "and I'm certainly not trusting the slot anymore than before". Like if there is one thing that should have no impact in either direction in game flow right now is that backup claim.

[Frozen Angel]

You know what actually

VOTE: Nero Cain

I want this more.

[Frozen Angel]

scum are far more likely to claim a PR to get out of an elimination than town unless said town is a pr.

I really can't believe no one else is alarmed by this sentence. Like the way its phrased and everything just pings the hell outta me.

[Frozen Angel]

It's literally the easiest fake claim anyone can do and it's not even complete.

So you are admitting that if he were scum its an ez to make fake claim but its scummy if I say the same thing?

where did you say the same thing?!

You said mostly scum claim but also town does

how is what we said even similar?

[Frozen Angel]

the eyes-angel back and forth on p.22 is terrible. Angel being hyper defensive about potentially being suspected for being a replace-in is a bad look.

where was I "defensive"

nothing I said to eye was even about me

It was about how eye didn't mention anyone else but me when he made the theory at first and then it was because he claimed he was reaction testing and didn't follow up on it "to avoid heat"

[Frozen Angel]

I believe you're trying to omgus me right now with these continuous misrepresentations. and this build-up to it is screaming fake as well.

[Frozen Angel]

saying "oh if he's scum its an ez fakeclaim"

is not that different than me saying that if he were scum he'd (fakeclaim) a pr.

of course, you didn't even call him scum but then who the fuck thinks that he's TOWN fakeclaiming? That's not something town thinks ever

Misrepresenting: I never even accused him of fake claiming I said I find backup the easiest possible fake claim for scum when analyzing the claim

That's not even related to my read on the slot.

and yes you are misrepresenting me with eye too. Saying I was defensive with eye when I was the one asking all the questions/making push/being aggressive by every definition aggressive can mean. There was nothing there for me to be defensive about.

[Frozen Angel]

nothing I said to eye was even about me

bullshit, you were all over his case b/c he believes in a dumbass theory

I already did and fa didn't like it.

Well, it's a weird take and absolutely wrong especially for people who got forced replaced by a mod before even posting once, and maybe only would work if it was a trust tell for that said player. It's like saying it's more probable that a coin will always fall on its head side. and you saying it the way you did,

especially since we had multiple replace in this same game (Dwlee99, Nero Cain, Stephan) and you only mentioned me

, so makes me wonder

Do you have actual reasoning for your suspicion or was it just that?

Early townreads on both Andante and Dwlee for seemingly being the driving forces of the game getting out of RVS so quickly.

Well I know this is going to bring a lot of heat my way but I should let you all know I tend to suspect replacements more. I guess it was DGB (if memory serves me right) that once said if we eliminate all replacements town always wins (or something to that effect).

Anyway welcome FA.

Also @Andante I do appreciate the townread but something tells me I have yet to earn it. Do you tend to townread people who townread you?

Dwlee99 replaces LicketyQuickety.

yeap that's what I was trying to say.

There's a difference between cognitive dissonance and not paying attention/changing your mind etc.

And if you think all the reads are fabricated then ???

The slot is not doing work and the read they make is fabricated.

which is why he deserved a spot here in my read:

so for me, my vote currently kinda has to go on either Andate which is fluff posting and fabricating stuff but has yet to catch up again they say, eyes which is actually a good vote even without much content posted cause that moves of them for going after that theory just felt so fake, and it gives a good insight about the people who gave reads around the slot without having any reasons and the wagon that got constructed on him.

I just have enough experience to not instantly call the slot scum even for fabricating reads and have this doubt that with their self-awareness that doing it will bring them heat/they might just be the lazy town not doing anything and wanting to run away from questions - even though I was the first person who called this and repeatedly emphasized on it when people tried to move on from actually investigating the slot

@Dwlee, in 505, u said eyes+FA could be partnered(presumably cuz of 503?), but why are u big on that being a partnery psot, when the same logic can be applied to u. Eyes TR'D you even after u being a replacement

FA defense + Eyes treating me and FA different for same thing could indicate FA and I are different alignments if eyes is scum which would make me think she is scum

first - what defense?

You're going in a tunnel vision on them for their replace theory thing. we both see their reads are fake but you outright go from that to them being mafia and I don't because I'm just not gonna agree with it that it can't be done by town. That doesn't mean I'm defending the slot. I was questioning it way earlier than you jumped on its wagon and did way more to sort the slot and the people jumping to vote him than you.

then you go with association hunting which is consistent with your previous line of thinking and behavior so I actually like your slot a bit more for saying it; even if it's the recipe for failure.

I literally was even accused of defending the slot as I was not scum reading them dumping in that theory and believing they only mentioned me

[Frozen Angel]

Well I know this is going to bring a lot of heat my way but I should let you all know I tend to suspect replacements more. I guess it was DGB (if memory serves me right) that once said if we eliminate all replacements town always wins (or something to that effect).

Anyway welcome FA.

Also @Andante I do appreciate the townread but something tells me I have yet to earn it. Do you tend to townread people who townread you?

Maybe not but statistically scum replace out more than town do and especially so at the start of the game. Someone who doesn't like to play scum or someone who didn't like their teammates or someone who thought one of their own are going down too early. I do not promote it to be a 100% plan but early replacement have a higher %age of being scum than you would expect.

these were my two posts in concern and I don't see anyone's particular name except if you count my saying hello to you which still doesn't say I suspected you and nobody else

so now you're saying that the replace post was not even directed at me?

no, you didn't mean it as a general concept. You specifically mentioned my slot twice right after the theory

VOTE: Eyes without a face

Like I wasn't even posting there why did you say fa didn't like it if it was not you pointing finger toward my slot?

because

203

Early townreads on both Andante and Dwlee for seemingly being the driving forces of the game getting out of RVS so quickly.

what?! I just read the game and this just makes no sense

so you're saying you didn't say the theory to even remotely hint that you

find me scummier than others

and the greeting was just a greeting

and that

eyes, is that the only thought you have on the thread? more please, give some opinions on people at least

I already did and fa didn't like it.

This was in reference to me saying "you state that you have early tr on adante and dwlee for taking the game out of RVS, making no sense"?

It was always about the way he was persuing his theory not the people he was persuing

[Frozen Angel]

I said I find backup the easiest possible fake claim for scum

so exactly how is that different than me saying that if he were scum he'd claim pr?

You said scum would claim pr - so is a town so it's best if we let him alive for a few days. You never gave an actual read on the slot that I can follow. Just said yeah it can be either scum or town lol

Its not even close to what I was saying about how claiming backup is one of the easiest possible fake claims. I took a clear stance on the slot - even if I'm confused about his goofy play and can't call him town he is clearly not a top suspect of mine and that is not related to his claim at all.

mine is a clear analysis. yours is a clear distancing. that's the disfference.

[Frozen Angel]

for someone supposedly not being defensive, there's alot of "me"s

so It was about how he mentioned me and no one else.

It was not about me defending myself. It was about how he didn't mention or work on any one else

supposedly that was a misunderstanding and he didn't even mention me for his theory - which is what both me and dwlee assumed back there and I thought that's what you understood from his initial post as well based on your earlier posts

Oh yeah here is another me in this post. how is me being related to his theory, makes those posts defensive?

[Frozen Angel]

Also, note that Angel isn't commenting on her doublespeak of calling Eyes scum while simultaneously calling me out for calling Eyes 413 bad.

I did not double-speak of eye. I was challenging dwlees read on the slot, but then found something "else" alarming about it regardless along the way.

here is another misrepresentation

and the fakest build up to a vote against my slot in history of fake gaming.

Nero is not solving the game, he is mafia.

[Frozen Angel]

You never gave an actual read on the slot that I can follow.

Why would my read change just b/c he claimed backup? I've been calling him scum all day so you are 100% lying when you say that I never gave a read.

mine is a clear analysis. yours is a clear distancing.

no yours isn't lol

quick q. a player claims a pr on d1. Do you vote them out?

They claimed backup not a pr. and yes I would keep my vote on them even if it was for that claim. Backup is not a PR. backup is literally nothing right now, no way for verification.

Its like the easiest fake claim someone can possibly do.

Your iso is really filled with nothing. giving a bit of vibing with whatever person gets some traction and distancing. and the moment you felt I'm onto you, you tried to act like I was doing the same thing you were.

[Frozen Angel]

so It was about how he mentioned me and no one else.

YOU ARE ADMITTING YOU WERE BEING DEFENSIVE

NO I'M NOT

It was about how he mentioned no one else the questions at start. I was even defending him and calling it not inherently scummy at that point.

I voted him when he claimed he didn't mention me right after theory for it, then convinced me it might have been the case and a misunderstanding but alarmed me again by refusing to push his own reaction test to not gain heat when his theory was for gaining heat and reaction testing according to himself

You're just full of shit!

[Frozen Angel]

I know what back up is thank you very much and no it's not a PR claim. His claim is half done and is not verifiable in any way. He literally claimed nothing and he had no reason to even claim there.

It's just another goofy thing hockey did in this game which I found consistent with him being goofy overall

doesn't mean he is a townread of mine, I don't find his claim alarming. but if someone scumreads the slot and is not pushing it just cause of that claim, they are just distancing from the wagon

[Frozen Angel]

I literally am incapable of seeing any world in which Nero is town here.

His posts and stances and how he tried to shade and build up to a vote on my slot is just possible by a mafia mindset.

that's not how town progresses.

He has information about slots

and he tries to position himself in a specific mindset based on it. Its just blatantly clear by the way he reacted to hockey claim and the way he reacted to me calling it out.

[Frozen Angel]

pedit: well if u would have done this all the time, then idk man, just seems absurd for mafia to start the game like this

saying this about how aggressive stephan started the game saying he an't see mafia being so aggressive and act as their town self like that when they just replace in

I just reread the frozen/eyes stuff, did not get much out of it, but I like the way Frozen is playing, and I dont think the 2 are partners here

Act like he can't see a player aggressive enough for a possible mafia-FA to buss a possible mafia-eye

and then the claim

I call goofy.

I reacted to all three before and more instances of him saying some stuff that technically makes no sense as a stance. I don't find it inhently scummy. I don't town read him for it either. He is a big fat null for me - leaning scum actually but I give him a pass over my strongest suspects because of his consistency in how he plays.

[Frozen Angel]

Its just blatantly clear by the way he reacted to hockey claim and the way he reacted to me calling it out.

you can go through my games if you wish but having 2nd thoughts about eliminating a PR is consistent but that's exactly why scum do claim prs so *shrug*

I just could see you trying to shade and build up to that omgus from a miles away by trying to act we did the same thing and misrepresentations.

and Its not even about the "theory" you posted. yes it's clear that both scum and town can claim whatever they want. You saying that with your supposedly scumread on the slot when he just claimed back up, not analysing his claim in anyway but saying he should live for few days. it's just an awful stance from a town-nero and I respect your gaming way more than that

[Frozen Angel]

FA calling Hockey goofy makes me think of how scum Jeff was calling Enchant funny in Polish Rap

now even using others games to shade me lol

He had a certain behavior that I just gave 3 examples of. I say he was consistent with doing that. I don't call him goofy to just not call him scummy. I called him that because I couldn't find another word for the behavior

[Frozen Angel]

Your examples are stupid and that's not "goofy" behavior. He's giving out content and playing the game.

goofy my ass

Not considering mafia can be aggressive upon replace in/ not considering mafia can buss each other and be pushing each other/ claiming backup half way when not pushed for elimination

yeah these are not what an experienced player would do. a player who get bitten by a mafia aggressive play fooling them wouldn't just refuse the possibility outright. town has doubt by nature in any content they make and read they provide and he had been consistent with acting the way he did.

call it in exprienced/ newbie like/ bad playing/goofy or whatever you want. But he was that yes and he was that literally all day long consistently to a point multiple other people mentioned it in their own way (fire did, adante did ...)

[Frozen Angel]

I can name like 10 more instances of it.

He gives reads, people question it, he appologzies first and then explains where his read came from.

he asks a question, other player refuses to answer, he hesitates to question it again or push for it instantly after

[Frozen Angel]

OK I skimmed those spoilers as I'm never good at comprehending wallposts especially when they are commenting on previous stuff. I can't even tell if Umlaut already knew what's next and is do0ing the catch up with the intention to get to a certain stance or if he was honest and didn't take a peak. I'll call him null for now.

So..

the worst
Frozen
Stephen
Umlaut
Nero
Dwlee

Now off to the other 6 of which I think Andante, fire and Greeting are showing various shades of green. Hockey though takes the lead spot with the claim which I obviously am buying so wave and scorpious are my main 2 suspects here.

Combining both lists

Hockey
the worst
Frozen-Andante-Greeting
fire
Stephen
Umlaut
scorpious
wave
Nero
Dwlee


Disclaimer: I have not tried to double/treble ISO anyone against anyone else, meaning that these are separate reads on single slots and not necessarily connected with each other. I think I'll ISO the living suspects against the flipped ones (if they flip red) to see if they could be teammates, but that's me being too hopeful of being alive to do it so take it with a twist of lemon and a grain of salt

can you explain how to read this read list?

like is that a complete read list from town to scum?

You liked nero's reaction to your theory before. what made him your second scum read now?

[Frozen Angel]

he was @ L-2 when he was claimed so he was past halfway.

So you are calling him inexperienced and just using the term "goofy"?

I'm not saying he doesn't know the game

I'm saying the way he makes content makes no theoretical sense as he doesn't eliminate the other possibilities. His posts are consistent with his lack of game theory sense.

I can't explain it better.

[Frozen Angel]

ok fine, what does that have to do with anything?

what do you mean what does that have to do with anything.

that's everything

It's either him being a mafia mastermind faking this play style in this consistent manner, or just a town who is getting misunderstood for his content as his content can get tackled because it's theoretically baseless or has obvious flaws in eyes of everyone.

I lean on second but have him on null and consider it a very hard slot to sort just by his content for this reason.

[Frozen Angel]

I missed your post 751 sorry eyes

[Frozen Angel]

still don't get why eyes are not voting anyone and are keeping their vote on RVS. That just makes no sense to me at all

like they could vote nero with me if they had now a scum read on him too right? but they didn't even do that.

[Frozen Angel]

Why am I not?

andante claimed that she town reads you. why this claim can't be questioned by Umlaut?

why aren't you curios why she claimed she town reads you?

[Frozen Angel]

DW town reads me and I didn't ask him.

Did you ask anyones thats town reading you?

Umalaut is light calling me scum by asking why I'm being town read. im making him put his $$$ where his mouth is.

I actually did. when hockey made a comment about me and eye interaction and said we're not partners, I literally asked him why it can't be a mafia-me pushing a mafia-him in his eyes

andante gave no reason for his read. why aren't curious why it's made?

pedit: you can ask that for sure. but it was clear you're deflecting his question from andante by making it about his read on you in response to that

[Frozen Angel]

and nothing prevents you from answering mine

why aren't you interested in why she town reads you?

[Frozen Angel]

I don't always ask others why they are town reading me.

Why didn't you ask DW?

that's Good question

@Dwlee forgot to ask you before as we were in a heated conversation with nero

can you elaborate on your read about me and nero?

now back to you nero, why wouldn't you be interested to know why another slot town reads you when they didn't specify any reasons for it? aren't you trying to understand their nature of reasonings and sort them?

[Frozen Angel]

Do you often ask why other slots are town reading you?

I mean obviously, when a scummy slot is town reading me I've been known to ask but usually I don't and I really don't think most players do. Like that backtrack so you don't look like a hypocrite.

You never gave any sort of read on andante actually now that I'm ISOing you.

Is there a reason that you didn't feel you need to comment on any of her posts or express your read on her?

and if she is null, how would she town reading you with no reason feel alright in your head?

[Frozen Angel]

Like It's screaming to me in my head that Nero clearly doesn't believe his own scum read on me. For someone who claims he was suspecting me since before and brings concern about my previous arguments, he doesn't even know what was my read on hockey when questioning it. and then things like calling me a hypocrite for not questioning dwlee when I asked him a very simple question about why he is not sorting andante for her read on him and he was reflexive when someone else questioned it.

It's just all fake

[Frozen Angel]

after reading this a couple times, imo Nero is the more "correct" one in this argument, but i don't know if that alone says anything about alignment. FA seems like the type to want to be "correct" in any argument she makes as maf, so the fact that she isn't (especially about the defensiveness around eyes, that whole thing read very defensive to me as well) may not actually mean a whole lot, she probably thinks she's right as either alignment. it would come down more to what arguments she chooses to take, and how she could use them to her advantage. FA, you seem like the type who usually likes to look beyond the surface level (which i like!), less about what looks scummy and more about would scum do this. can you talk about what you see as nero's scum motivation here? if you see him as misrepping you, what do you think he hopes to accomplish by doing that? i don't think nero scum is too unlikely, but i want to hear your reasoning

He did the same thing for both eyes and hockey in some senses in a similar manner. where he put himself by literally adding nothing to game like that is a safe distance from whatever is the result of flips. and best way to get out of pressure when someone calls him out of it is acting as the person calling them out had the same stance.

And no he is not right at all. My argument with eyes had literally nothing to do with defending me, I voted him when he claimed he never mentioned me right after his theory and was close to immediately ready to unvote him when he convinced me that it might have been the case in response, but then he said he wont vote to not gain heat and I decided to stay on him (hence the argument)

before that I was even in some sense calling it not inherently scummy and was even accused by dwlee for defending eye. how is that being defensive?

and no. I don't want to be always right. If I'm making a mistake I'm more than happy to acknowledge and re iterate my reads.

I think Nero is choosing the most convenient path regarding the major wagons and his approach toward my slot and his read on my slot were fabricated and fake based on the evidences I mentioned and I think that there is no town mindset that can justify them.

[Frozen Angel]

In fairness, there actually is a theory that most replace outs are done by scum but bringing it up is dumb

scum are far more likely to claim a PR to get out of an elimination than town unless said town is a pr. Not impossible that we did hit a town pr and I guess the correct play might be to give him a day or 2

Adding nothing to the main pressure points

Keeping a safe distance from both by throwing in information over any analysis.

Both posts are just awful and him repeating this attitude makes me almost certain he has an agenda with them to position himself in a spot where he can still redirect attention to others and stay safe from whatever result these flips will bring in later days.

[Frozen Angel]

also, you lied and said I never gave a read on Hockey so are you are in the same boat as me, hun.

I didn't lie. I didn't mean you previously didn't give a read on slot. I was talking about your reaction to that claim

You never followed up on your previous read about it now that he claimed. your entire reaction to a supposed scum read of yours who claimed backup was that "even though most likely scums claim but so does town" with literal no follow up.

how is that a town mindset with intention of sorting reacting to their voted read?

[Frozen Angel]

reacting to their voted read claim*

[Frozen Angel]

the vast majority of town, including myself, will think twice about voting a claimed pr hence "I guess the correct play might be to give him a day or 2" And it's why scum fakeclaim prs early game anyways.

Ofc you are claiming that town you will recklessly plow through a pr claim from a "scummy" player which I highly doubt you are telling the truth about b/c its bad town play. You are even going so far as to claim a backup isn't a pr. Which isn't true unless that's like a slip that he isn't actually a backup.

You also have a super convenient null read on him. So if he were flipped today then regardless of his flip you aren't connected. But then I think you said he's hard to read b/c he's "goofy" Hows that fence feel, Angel?

What I said and my stance is perfectly fine and valid.

I in no context said you're scummy for not pushing him now that he claimed backup

I said you're scum for distancing from that position by literally adding nothing to the game and for giving no analysis about your top scum read claim

[Frozen Angel]

@FA, from an outside perspective (me), your reaction to eyes looked defensive. you made a big leap in assuming that because he welcomed you after talking about the replacements, he was suspecting you, and your interactions surrounding that all read as very reactive to that. it's not defensive in the sense of "you attacked me, so I will attack you for it", but it is defensive in the sense of reading something that wasn't an attack as if it was one, and jumping on him for it. i do not believe that you would have responded to his posts in the same way if you were not one of the parties involved, and you perceived an attack/suspicion from him, so thus it looks defensive. you can say that in your own head you weren't acting defensively, but the fact that it looked that way to me makes me believe that it would look that way to others, including nero.

nero is still voting hockey. i read the post in question (694) as justifying him keeping his vote there, not the distancing as you claim. he's basically saying "yeah this doesn't really change things, scum could easily fakeclaim there. it might be technically best to hold off on the lim temporarily in case he is town pr". that's, like, an incredibly reasonable thing to say. i have no idea why it alarmed you so much. the fact that he has kept his vote there is the follow up that I think you're looking for, which is saying through his actions that he doesn't think the claim is currently enough to make him want to unvote

basically, i don't see your evidence as holding water, so i don't see his case as fabricated or fake

I would push it even more if it was just someone else and I wasn't involved in there. My scum hunting method is pretty simple: I look for inconsistencies and eyes had it. I was actually talking about how it's not an inherently scummy motivated action when he made the theory himself. I was mainly pushing the people who were reacting to eye.

Only when he claimed that he never meant to mention me as the main suspect of his theory did I vote for him and found it inconsistent. Literally anything before that can even be seen as me defending eye from others accusations as it was also seen and directly announced by dwelee

and no nero was voting hockey, saw the claim, said he finds more likely that scum claim pr but so is town, so lets kill him on later days and move on. for a half claimed "back up" claim that is not verifiable, not understandable and not informative in any way. And he kept his vote on that slot when saying it. It's just for one reason and can't have another motivation: distancing from whatever flip he will have while trying to stay consistent with his "read" on the slot. "Claims like that are most likely lies but they can be truth too" No. that's not an analysis. It's nothing. It's doing nothing on purpose and he is scum for it

[Frozen Angel]

I find backup the easiest possible fake claim for scum

yeah I do and you took that out of my analysis post that I posted twice or three times already explaining my entire read on him and explaining how it should effect reads on the slot

If I had him as a scum read he would still be a scum read that I would event get eliminated today with that claim. He literally claimed he is VT right now, and might be a backup of another role that he didn't even explain what.

This is what you said:

scum are far more likely to claim a PR to get out of an elimination than town unless said town is a pr. Not impossible that we did hit a town pr and I guess the correct play might be to give him a day or 2

and its what a scum would say.

[Frozen Angel]

@FA
@Nero

Could you please stop doing whatever you two have been doing for ages now and try to so something useful?? You've been going on for pages over something that virtually adds nothing to the current game status. You can stop now and revisit later. Right now it's just noise and it's not productive and it's not even making any other issue get noticed by the majority. Unless this is svs theater which I don't belive it to be but would be awesome if it was then please try to look at the current events and conversations so we can maybe find scum before time runs up and it's just me or Hockey as I had predicted.

Thank you

I'm voting mafia. and explaining why he is one when others question my read. Of course It is productive.

I don't see myself changing my vote unless maybe someone else claims they are mafia.

[Frozen Angel]

Like literally how is what you do productive instead? You're not pushing anyone even your top scum reads. literally doing nothing to progress the game state

If you have anything to say about my read, feel free to say so

[Frozen Angel]

And he kept his vote on that slot when saying it. It's just for one reason and can't have another motivation: distancing from whatever flip he will have while trying to stay consistent with his "read" on the slot.

i can't understand how you could think this. i think what i said about the claim is coming from a very similar mindset:

i don't think that him saying he is a backup has any effect on the likelihood of him being town. yeah it increases the risk, and a lim on him is worse for town than if he was VT, but

...but it doesn't change my suspicion of him, and doesn't really make me any more inclined to unvote. that might change if it were a full claim, but it isn't right now.

and i kept my vote on him. what's the difference? why is his distancing and mine isn't? it just makes no sense to me that you can think that what he said can only have one possible motivation

the difference is how he did it

He literally threw the account under suspicious by first saying "Scum more likely claim like this"
then gave himself an out by saying "but town does it too, lets eliminate it in future days"

you didn't.

You were trying to argue over how the claim should effect the reads/and you wanting the slot dead regardless of it cause of your scum read.

How can you not see a difference

[Frozen Angel]

eh that's not true he has been trying to push and pressure dwlee instead

really? why he is not voting the slot still then?

he said dwlee had worst reaction and that he suspects nero (now that I mentioned I suspect him and pushed him for pages)

but his vote is on greeting who was his rvs vote.

what kind of pressure is he putting on anyone? he asked them no question. all he did was asking dwlee to write one sentence about his reads, not even ISOing him to put his reads from his own impression together to evaluate them.

I don't see him solving his top scum reads

[Frozen Angel]

I keep reading your nickname as Queen Shitty

on my screen the text is small haha

are you insulting me right now?

[Frozen Angel]

My nickname was suggested for my snipe of page tops in-game I mod and for my general shifty attitude I guess xd

[Frozen Angel]

How can you not see a difference

i do not see a significant difference, they both feel like they come from the same or similar mindset to me. it feels like you are reading something into his post that just isn't there

Or you're not trying to see the difference.

No action is inherently scum motivated. What is scum motivated is the mindset behind a pattern of actions and I just can follow his from a possible scum-nero mindset.

He would not ever react like that to both eye theory and hockey claim the way he did if he was town and he would not act like he scum reads me the way he is doing it right now

[Frozen Angel]

really? why he is not voting the slot still then?

i dunno, i think it's a weird choice, but he's been pretty clear and consistent about it. he said he thinks the vote wouldn't add any more pressure, so it's pointless. he has been asking questions of both dwlee and scorpio recently. yea sure he could be doing more, so could a lot of people, but saying he is "literally doing nothing to progress the game state" is just flat out wrong

I really can't see them doing anything

to progress any reads

I literally Just ISOed the slot to see if I missed something and I didn't.

I liked that they posted I think post 751 where he explained reads he got from before and where he stand with them. I didn't like his switch on his nero read from "I think nero's reaction was very good" to "Nero is someone who would not be just agreeing and would pressure more with his experience" right after I started publicly and heavily pushing nero

even though that's like the main issue with how nero reacted to that theory for me too and I originally mentioned this before he said he liked nero reaction, just giving theory legitimacy and then calling it bad is not taking a stance or an attempt to sort the slot who just threw a theory in game, and he didn't even try to analyze everyone else reactions to it back then

and I still don't like his excuse for not voting neither of his scum reads.

[Frozen Angel]

I will not post anymore tonight so everyone can catch up (I'm actually interested to see how certain slots will react). I will answer all questions tomorrow and will try to keep my posts briefer from now on.

[Frozen Angel]

I know I said I check here tomorrow but couldn't resist

jfc too many posts, too much reading,

I was able to read it like 2 times but omfg

Anyways,

The only thing I understood from frozens pov was 754, and even then i'm not understanding what u mean by this. whose slot does nero have "more" info on? He still thinks im scum but is hesistant to vote me for my claim. Wheres the extra info in that?

the rest is mechanics disucssion, talking about how my claim is the "easiest" to make and its stupid

Frzoen, iirc during that entire interaction, u kept on mentuoning how u "analyzed" my claim so; what exactly did u anaylze? All ive seen u say is " my claim half done and is not verifiable but It lines up with the rest of his "goofy" play, so hes null" ???? U just beat around the bush for that read rofl

Also as for nero, at a first glance, thier posts seem pretty towny, they have a consistent mindset(I think), but ik they have a lot of experience so shrug probs just a null to a town lean

I literally explained everything like 10 times. from what is my read on you, what I meant by goofy, why I cum read nero, what was my take on your read (which is practically not at all what you just said even in slightest, that was the part nero was taking out of context repeatedly to claim how our reads were similar)

there is literally nothing in this post of yours that is actually even remotely related to whatever I posted in past 24 hours and it kinda pisses me off to a point cause regardless of your alignment you could actually try to read and then comment

and no that tiny irrelivent part I mentioned is not stupid. You had no reason to claim when you did and with what you did, as your claim means nothing. a back up is literally a VT at this point of game so there is literally no justification to even call you a power role. that + how you didn't even claim what kind of role you're backing up. claiming backup theoretically leaves a scum player open to adjust their claim based on later on flips so they can claim results that will confuse town. for example claiming a back up cop after a cop flips giving out a red claim on a mafia player and getting partner eliminated. it practically leaves a mafia to adjust their claim to whatever comes next. What you claimed mechanically is the easiest fake claim a mafia can do.

As for your question about the info I claimed nero has, he has been calling you mafia, dodging the tension of your wagon with that sentence that I got fixated on and called terrible that started whole thing and then shifted his vote on me the moment I called him out on it after few posts of shading leading up to it. He never ever ever expressed any sort of read on my slot beside his vote, which was a direct reaction to me calling him out on it. and the reason he went on that direction was because he was trying to imply during this day "we did exact similar things" (he was trying to say my reaction and his was same to your claim and to eye's theory) which is the most absurd reason to vote someone. Nero is not in experienced. Nero doesn't play like that as town

so nero's push on my slot is fake and his dodges of the most attention wagons of the day to jump on me comes from his informed position. all these stuff said Nero should be mafia.

@

Frozen Angel

don't use the l-word to refer to voting out a player. It's banned. Use "eliminate" instead.

and sorry about that. I tried to use elimination everytime I remembered but its old habits and I just came back after years to this website. I'll do my best

and sorry that I couldn't keep this brief

[Frozen Angel]

I didn't feel the need to comment about your ramble about how scorpious is confusing bold enlarge the text with all-cap text.

I followed your scorpious read and what you asked about dwlee and I appreciate how you're starting to question things but would like to see you still more engaged about your reads. Like for instance my only take away from your read on dwlee is that you didn't like dwlee's reaction. you felt you want to see his reads and he refused to make a list for you. now what?

[Frozen Angel]

see their read/ they*

I'm so sorry dwlee

sorry again for pronouns I really need to double check posts before sending them. and I really need sleep

[Frozen Angel]

I explained what I meant when I used the term goofy. can ISO me and find

Now if you'll excuse me while I demote you two notches on my list because you were never this bad when we used to play together more often @FA

We did?

[Frozen Angel]

VOTE: Nero Cain

He has never developed any scumread on me. just shouting out he thinks I'm scum and voting me is not even developing a read. This literally can't be more fake than this

You were trying to call out repeatedly for calling you out for how what we were saying stuff were similar right? How did you reach from there to I'm scum?

You are visibly upset that he potentially claimed his way out of elimination today and I could easily see scum you mad that he's no longer today's limbait.

Could this be literally more shading? like you're literally looking for whatever you can to pretend your read on me is a legit developed one. Hockey was never even my focus or vote. I have been going after eye, andante and you. I even clearly stated that I have a town lean on hockey for his consistency way before his claim.

and His claim does not buy him any credit of any sort and I just can't see how a town!Nero would not see that about someone claiming backup. Your reasoning and appearance when distancing that wagon was trash and how you jumped from how I cought it to develop a read on my slot was so fake that I can't believe no one else can't see it. This progression is just so fake that it literally defines fake.

Scorpious vote on umalat is really bad btw. and Greeting has been warming up really for me. I loved how she analyzed my push on Nero and reacted to people reacting to it. It was just clear content and a consistent game-solving mindset behind it.

[Frozen Angel]

Wave and greeting like my top town read right now
Guess I have the worst, greeting right after
then fire, dwlee and Stephen and umalut
then scorpious and hockey

and for suspects, I sill go with andante, eye, and nero in that order with nero on bottom

I really want to see nero red flip. please help me make that happen

[Frozen Angel]

Spoiler:

Eyes is the obvious LHF right now, but are they scum?

Umlaut,

Have you had the opportunity to make any intitial observations? We’ve gotten nothing from that slot.

@scorpio you have so far mostly ignored the main two wagons, what's up with that? a few little things with hockey but never much of an opinion, and a lil bit of on the fence with eyes. i know it's football day but could you at least give some quick thoughts of where you are currently at with both of them por favor

Fair question.
I’m never a fan of the first wagon to be completely honest, I’m. It going to throw around words like “always” and “often” but it’s a rarity. I see newb, not scum in the posts. Almost like I “why are people finding these things I’m saying as scum. It’s also LHF .

As far as the Eyes wagon. Again, seems like a lazy vote, granted one I’m leaning toward making. It’s curious to come into a game with a statement that is obviously going to drum up some sort of disagreement. Maybe it’s a huge reaction test. I really don’t know. I’m going to attempt to trudge through the two pages of them and FA, but I can already see myself getting bored with it.

Last note. i did have my vote parked on Adante because he initial list was so be beneath her, and I had not planned on moving it until she at least addressed the evolution of her thoughts since it. I’m satisfied so I did remove it.

See? fire's 811 above is an example of a player wanting to give some sort of input regarding both sides and the subject they're arguing about whereas Dwlee just shrugs it off as tvt and doesn't want to give more about it. I hope that explains more why fire is on the green side to me while Dwlee is on the extreme red.

Surely you can easily see how this comes off as a late attempt to pocket a player that most here,including myself are reading as town. I dont think fire needs you to tell her why her post is a good post that can easily be town moticated.

I would find myself leaning Town toward you had it not been the "request" for the entire game to press DW for a scum list.. As stated before. It's a major shift in how you had been writing things,almost like you have been trying to keep your scumminess hidden but the lid couldnt handle the pressure.

And this goes into the point I made way earlier. what town motivation would you have to bold and make your request so obnoxious...

VOTE: umlaut

This slot is useless right now. Will gladly remove vote if content is produced. Just a smart play to get rid of this slot.
It’s either VT or a scum role nobody wants. Unless I get proven differently by someone showing they want to play it..

actually, scorpius is inconsistent with his mindset and offering umalut as a pressure point when the slot is clearly giving out reads and even engaged with my push against nero is really suspicious.

like umalut did both catchup posts with a lot of content and read development and reacted in realtime to the argument between me and nero so there is literally so many actual content to there to read and anlyse and question but he asked no question. like it feels so inconsistent with his mindset earlier and resistance against eye wagon. also can't see how he got to the point to vote eye there

I'm gonna drop him to my suspects category for this

[Frozen Angel]

@ Fire

it's time for you to explain to me why Angel is town b/c I just don't see it. Or do you even town read her?

Maybe it's time for you to actually explain why do you scum read me. oh yeah you can't cause you literally threw it out the moment you saw me calling out you're inconsistent mindset with everything.

now you're asking others so they can explain their town read on me when I question your read on my slot. Hey guys Nero is asking for help! someone help nero and throw him a rope so he can get himself out of this pit he threw himself in when he tried to fake the mindset that he scum reads me.

[Frozen Angel]

oh and eyes, you're not RC unless if this is some sort of multiverse MCU mess or something

[Frozen Angel]

you don't know me. You can't tell me what I will and won't do. This is fake.

also, what do you mean I don't know you. Didn't we have like crap tone of games with each other years ago?

I like I can just remember 3 games we played together right now and at least one other when I was moderating a game you were playing and my memory is literally terrible

like what are you even trying to say here? that we never played before with each other?

[Frozen Angel]

he never directed shit at you Angel. You got all up in his grill b/c you are tilted scum.

who is this in reference to? I'm not even tilted. This is my normal gameplay and everyone who knows me even a little knows it.

Meanwhile, you're still dodging everything I say.

I know when someone has a consistent mindset forming a read on me and when I see a fake one generated. It specially works better when I'm the one they are making this read on, so I always try to be center of attention and one v one people as I'm sorting them and you know it. You know how my scum hunting is behavior analysis not direct action analysis and you know how I always hunt for inconsistencies in personality trait and in pattern of behavior as I honestly believe nearly no action is inherently scummy but they can be more likely from town or scum mindset when they appear in certain patterns of behavior.

You should know how I play the game even if it's been so long since I played on this website and if you didn't know it for real you would have question it, not fake a scum read on it when it's actually pretty evidently a method for solving the game. You just faked a scum read on my slot cause it was the most convenient for you when I called you out and you tried to justify it by misrepresenting some stuff like my eye push that even if those misrepresentations where true would put me and you on same spot with game and would never justify a scum read by you on my slot.

so yes you're just full of s***

[Frozen Angel]

you don't know me. You can't tell me what I will and won't do. This is fake.

also, what do you mean I don't know you. Didn't we have like crap tone of games with each other years ago?

I like I can just remember 3 games we played together right now and at least one other when I was moderating a game you were playing and my memory is literally terrible

like what are you even trying to say here? that we never played before with each other?

I'm sure that we played together although I don't really remember and I know I was in that game that Panzer ruined but all those were years ago and you are saying that you don't have a good memory but you know exactly how I play? Why do you feel like those 3 games from years ago are better indication of my play than my more recent games?

where did I say I remember how exactly you play? I said I don't believe someone with vast experience like you would react to that backup claim the way you did if you had any intention of solving the slot. You just gave out "nothing" and wrapped it in a gift box as your content for everyone else, while still trying to hold your ground as you were pretending he was your top scum read till that point. You literally put yourself in a convenient location distant from the wagon, while still shading the slot in the same sentence and I honestly find that and what you did regarding eye theory consistent with a mafia mindset regarding the most heated slots of this day phase.

[Frozen Angel]

I've explained why I'm scum reading you ad nasuem. But nothing has been "inconsistent" and you are literally making up shit. I also first expressed suspicion on you in 531, 533 which is b4 711 but the fake push on me really convinced me that you were scum.

not dodging shit.

531: There must be a scum between those who are being useless with their vote

Throwing literal shade on a group of slots, really stating nothing progressive about game, really not distinguishing slots, just paving a way for a future push on any of those slots as you would see more convenient in future

533: Frozen calling eye read on her slot is fabricated is pure nonsense

we established how that was probably a misunderstanding. I was thinking that eye posted my name twice right after his theory to hint at his suspicious on my slot with the theory which I didn't find inherently scummy but I voted him when he claimed he didn't put my name after his theory, then he explained it and it kind of made sense. You saw the back and forth there - the entire of it and how dwlee was also confused about it. It was a fabricated read if it was his theory to throw my name out in it and I explained in details back there why I don't see that fabrication of read wasn't inherently scummy as well.

You coming in after the argument calling it nonsense (it was nonsense cause it was a misunderstanding) is calling me out scummy? No, it was just the most convenient was for a mafia you to show up to actually act like they are throwing content in game when they were not.

and no in no context either of any of those posts is scum reading my slot in any context.

now you're even accusing me of fake pushing you the moment I explained why I'm sure yours on me was a fake push cause again you find it the most convenient accusation to make this look like a loop and invalidate my case against you.

It won't work

[Frozen Angel]

you would react to that backup claim the way you did if you had any intention of solving the slot

how do you "solve" a slot without eliminating it or figuring out a setup? You don't. The most you can do is give a read on the slot which you aren't even really doing anyways. You haven't even decided if he's fakeclaiming or not and just straddling the fence with "ummm its such an ez claim to make as scum."

This is a mini normal which means there will only be a certain number of town prs (and yes both backup and UB are prs) so we can easily figure out if he's lying or not as more claims become available. Stop pretending like you don't know how to play mafia.

I gave a read on the slot based on it's content and progression in day and explained it in detail multiple times. responding to your questions even. I even gave a read list and stated where I put him in it like in last page.

I never sat on fence with how the claim was done either. I explained how I find it consistent with his game play style that he claimed like that not even realizing how his claiming was useless there.

But the claim itself can literally go either way and that's the only thing you said about it without analyzing anything else regarding it considering he was your top scum read. You literally said yeah scum claim and so it town if they are a pr. Thanks sherlcok for stating that in front of everyone, looking like you're solving while in reality you're just distancing from actually giving a read on a slot that just claimed who was main pressure all day long without even caring to unvote them if you really think backup role is verifiable and saying we maybe should just give them a free pass for the claim.

and no that tiny irrelivent part I mentioned is not stupid. You had no reason to claim when you did and with what you did, as your claim means nothing. a back up is literally a VT at this point of game so there is literally no justification to even call you a power role. that + how you didn't even claim what kind of role you're backing up. claiming backup theoretically leaves a scum player open to adjust their claim based on later on flips so they can claim results that will confuse town. for example claiming a back up cop after a cop flips giving out a red claim on a mafia player and getting partner eliminated. it practically leaves a mafia to adjust their claim to whatever comes next. What you claimed mechanically is the easiest fake claim a mafia can do.

and that's why I said backup is the easiest possible fake claim for mafia and its like so obvious that you admitting like it's not true to justify your stance on that claim is actually tilting me

[Frozen Angel]

I gave a read on the slot based on it's content and progression in day and explained it in detail multiple times. responding to your questions even. I even gave a read list and stated where I put him in it like in last page.

yes, you had a "null" read or a town read. I'm not really sure what it is with all these changes. Like at first I thought you were straight up town reading him and then you informed me that it was a "null" read which is really lame I feel and just in the past page its a town "lean". Or maybe it was always a town lean and then I misinterpreted that as a town read and you said it was a null read to try to make it look like I'm not paying attention to this game.

I never sat on fence with how the claim was done either. I explained how I find it consistent with his gameplay style that he claimed like that not even realizing how his claiming was useless there.

I think having a null read on the slot was fence-sitting. Him being close to elimination and then claiming is just normal play that he's going to do regardless of alignment. Claiming he claimed b/c he's "goofy" is pretty silly and it's not analysis. "his claim is consistent with his playstyle" "oh so what's your read?" "null" like its just a whole bunch of nothing.

"you're just distancing from actually giving a read"

his claim is consistent with his goofy playstyle.

He's null. Is not a read.

stop with this nonsense wordplay

I him as a town lean cause of his consistency from way earlier in day (from where I voted adante) I explained what I meant from calling goofy and yes the claim was consistent with it.

You even claimed that you were under the assumption that I scum read the slot earlier and you were using that to start your counter push against me. Litteraly how can you be more inconsistent with why you're scum reading me?

[Frozen Angel]

Like in litteraly no contest i said I have a null read on the slot.

The only time that you could claim I was null on something, was about his claim. I explained that cause YOU litteraly asked how what I said and what you said about his claim were different. I said his claim should not effect the read you have on the slot even in slightest. Fence sitting is litteraly by every definition what you did:

scum are far more likely to claim a PR to get out of an elimination than town unless said town is a pr. Not impossible that we did hit a town pr and I guess the correct play might be to give him a day or 2

That is fence-sitting, distancing, calling him scum, and getting away from the tension. Its the most terrible post ever and completely consistent with how you also reacted earlier with eye and litteraly can only see it happening by a mafia you.

[Frozen Angel]

like all you really did was bash him for claiming which is??? b/c claiming @ L-2 is not abnormal. and explain why his claim could be from scum. I'm responding to the blurb above.

This just makes it really hard for me to consider him mafia while it doesn't make me feel he is town either. It's just putting him in not solvable position for me

this is your initial reaction and it's literally fence-sitting.

All you really did is say that you don't feel like he's scum (b/c of pr claim supposedly) but then said that it doesn't make you FEEL town which sorta contradicts. Then you bashed him and argued why it could be a scum claim. Stop with the holier than thou additude.

I said he is a slight town lean for his consistency, that doesn't make me feel there is no chance I'm not getting fooled. that his actions and reads are baseless but he is consistent in what he does. I even said he is either being a master class mafia player right now faking that play style and attitude and being consistent with it or that he is just that personality-wise and I lean on the second from how he is playing and everything else I saw so I'm not scum reading him for any of it.

Thats a clear analysis. Where was yours?

[Frozen Angel]

like all you really did was bash him for claiming which is??? b/c claiming @ L-2 is not abnormal. and explain why his claim could be from scum. I'm responding to the blurb above.

This just makes it really hard for me to consider him mafia while it doesn't make me feel he is town either. It's just putting him in not solvable position for me

this is your initial reaction and it's literally fence-sitting.

All you really did is say that you don't feel like he's scum (b/c of pr claim supposedly) but then said that it doesn't make you FEEL town which sorta contradicts. Then you bashed him and argued why it could be a scum claim. Stop with the holier than thou additude.

like That's literally taking out something I said out of context after I clarified it to you at least a thousand times already.

[Frozen Angel]

VOTE: Nero Cain

[Frozen Angel]

I lean on second but have

him on null

and consider it a very hard slot to sort just by his content for this reason.

lean on second = slight town lean in the same post

hard to sort cause of his playstyle but I find it consistent

You on the other hand can't be more obvious of a scum slot and I will literally do nothing else but to push you till you're flipped red the way you will

[Frozen Angel]

Please just vote eyes

Nope nero

please vote nero

[Frozen Angel]

Liettarly read what he says about why he is scumreading me and explain to me how ever a town can do this. He is literally inconsistent with the very basic of his read on my slot. he literally does a 180 about what he thinks my read on hockey was to shade it on either direction just to claim his read on my slot was made with a justifiable mind set

[Frozen Angel]

I coulda swore you town read him at some point :/

Coulda gotten you mixed up with someone else. I coulda swore you were town reading him hence the reason you weren't voting there. But I think having a null read there is kinda a cop out.

If anyone can see this paradox in his mindset and believes it a legit mindset being built to make a read on my slot, you're either crazy or I am.

I'm not unvoting this mafia

[Frozen Angel]

I thought you were town reading a Hockey. You told me it was null. Where's the paradox?

Paradox was with your mindset.

You were trying to say that I'm scum for scum reading you for having the same stance on hockey and you double-downed on it multiple times saying how what I said about his claim meaning nothing somehow equates to you saying "scum claims so does town"

then you said you swore that you thought I was town reading the slot when I repeatedly was explaining how weak that town read actually is so you decided to change your reasoning for voting me to fence-sitting and calling him null which I never did.

Like you literally did a 180 switch there to act like you have a developed read on me where in reality you never said anything about why you ever scum read me = your read on me is faked = you are mafia.

[Frozen Angel]

I've never changed my reasoning. I still think you are projecting scum but I ALSO think you are fence-sitting. It's not a change.

you did call him null in 787 but you are being nitpicky and saying null with a town lean which is kinda dumb.

what does "projecting scum" even mean?

It's literally stated in that same post what I lean on. and every other post I wrote about the matter. You started calling the fence-sitting mirroring my accusations against your slot back as your reasoning when your read on mine got questioned.

Of course, I never expect you to admit that your read on my slot was fake. You have no other way to back off from it now cause that would show how shallow it was in the first place and you've come too deep to just call it was a reaction test or stuff like that. Now you're like "yeah I had sus on the slot since before" "I scum read them cause their read on hockey was null" "I scum read them cause they pushed me when what I said is similar to what they said"

None are an actual reason. None are a progressed read. You're simply caught right now and don't see an exit. simple as that.

[Frozen Angel]

and like half of those reasons you made up are literally contradicted in the same posts you tried to question.

I explicitly expressed how I have a town lean on hockey in the same exact post you mentioned.

I explicitly explained like 100 times already when questioned what I meant when I analyzed the claim and how its not just simply saying nothing and distancing away from the whole back and forth about the claim

You're not even creative to make your own reasoning. simply sitting there trying to mirror all accusations I made against your slot to mine to create this loop between me and you to make my push against your slot look less credible. And I can see it and will never change my vote cause I literally never been more certain someone will flip red.

[Frozen Angel]

projecting scum is when scum call you scum for things they are doing.

so it's a term used for how you're mirroring the accusations against your slot toward me to justify your read on me? good to know

literally never heard that in like all games I played and played a lot.

[Frozen Angel]

I mean you admitted to fence-sitting on his claim. And having a "slight" null town read on the slot is also. I mean, it doesn't even make all that much sense. If you can't see him as scum for claiming backup (wich is what you said!) being so so so worried that he's "master class" scum thats fooling you (lol) I don't see why he's not in your upper echelons of town reads.

Where did I say I find him scum for claiming back up?

and this literally makes 0 sense. It's literally not at all anything I said.

I said I find his way of engagement consistent is what I said and I find the claim alongside that so it gives me a town read but that doesn't make me not worry about his slot as there were several alarming things about him especially about his reads without out much of a groundwork

His attitude being consistent in dropping those reads once in a while which make no theoretical sense is pretty much not fake is my conclusion unless he is really dropping a master class show in here acting in-experienced consistently.

How is that read an upper town read for me? how is that a scum read?

How is that even unclear that you confused it on purpose for like 10th time during your push on my slot to claim I even admitted fance sitting?

[Frozen Angel]

lets just argue that its not a progressed read. Why do I have to have one? I mean can't I just scum read scum thats pushing me for shit reasoning like I do it most games?

If you were saying you scum read me cause I scum read you since page 1 of this argument, I would feel a lot different right now cause its in-town nature to feel defensive and guard back at unknowns pushing them.

But that's not the case. You were building up to drop that vote by going back and mis representing my argument with eye and then you just went ahead and dropped the vote later after I called you out on it. This just proves you just had no progressed mindset to have that read on my slot. it pretty much only makes sense from a mafia!nero mindset who saw he is being repeatedly called out by a player who was alone in her mind set so you though by being aggressive in return you could gain credit, even set me up in return as you really really really were not scum reading me in any context back then.

then you saw no choice but to double down on it when you got called out on it. You simply have 0 reasons to scum read my slot so you generated literally crap and branched through them in addition to mirror my accusations against you to justify it however you could

that's literally the only way I can see it and I know its true.

[Frozen Angel]

the only real difference is that I was scum reading him before his claim. Saying that his claim is consistent with a goofy playstyle isn't analysis. It's nonsense. If he's town he claimed backup b/c is is a backup (barring a gambit) and if he's scum he's just claiming a fairly safe role.

now correct me if I'm wrong here but didn't you argue that town Nero would have pushed through a PR claim that I was scum reading? Assuming that's not a false memory its just feels like you are randomly saying things to attempt to make me look bad and I don't think that ever comes from a town alignment. If you did make that argument do you have any evidence?

no it's not nonsense. what you said is nonsense

Its actually worse than nonsense

You literally said nothing and acted as you're saying something

Thats what scum do when they see the major wagon of the day might get offloaded to distant

It's scummy and I caught you for saying it.

I literally explained what I meant from calling it goofy with literal examples of his play in this same game and showed how consistent it was and what I meant from it. I gave a full analysis on what I meant about his claim and I literally argued with you for like half my ISO for how you were misrepresenting my hockey read and literally doing 180 switch to misrepresent it from the other side to continue your push when first stance of yours didn't work.

[Frozen Angel]

Nero & FA

Y'all have played a lot right? Together? Do not get that impression from reading these.

I remember like 3 -4 games yeah and literally 2 games that I modded and he played. I never called him scum for meta in no context.
He is scum for being consistent with what I call a mafia mindset, and with what literally can't be explained otherwise.

His try to say we don't know each other play style to attack the semantics of the point I was trying to make about him makes him even look worse.

[Frozen Angel]

it might be b/c I've already seen Eyes response to the pressure on him but I feel like FA's claim that Eye's reads are fabricated is pure nonsense. He's either scum that's doublind down or that that actually believes in that theory.

@Dwlee, in 505, u said eyes+FA could be partnered(presumably cuz of 503?), but why are u big on that being a partnery psot, when the same logic can be applied to u. Eyes TR'D you even after u being a replacement

oof

who are we limming? or like top 2-3 names?

hockey? greeting? frozen angel? eyes?

At any rate, it's going to take a guilty to vote out scum FA so let's stop being shit with our vote.


VOTE: eyes

His last read about eyes "He is either scum that doubled down, or a town who believes on his theory"

reminds you of anything else said by nero?

Oh maybe

scum are far more likely to claim a PR to get out of an elimination than town unless said town is a pr. Not impossible that we did hit a town pr and I guess the correct play might be to give him a day or 2

And where he goes with his vote when he sees he is losing the argument with me?

To eye. a slot he literally gave no actual read about so far in this game. A slot who has tension from others and who actually was making content, and gave actual reads for that theory thing. he doesn't care about eye read on dwlee or even himself or me - based on his theory's reaction test or how he followed up on it. He doesn't care about eye posts about scorpious. He just cares about having another wagon to keep the day momentum elsewhere. and he chooses the only other slot I actually had in my suspicious list with momentum that he previously acted so so on as well, so in his mind I can't call him out on it.

[Frozen Angel]

Angel, the correct town play in a game with a set # of tprs is to let them solve themselves. The 2 minis below us were 4/6 and 3/7 if you think its bad that I had second thoughts about power eliminating a claimed pr then you can fuck right off b/c you don't know how to play but then again I don't think you are town this game.

That's not even close to why I think you're mafia but nice try. I never said you think the pr claim solving itself out is scummy. I find the way you describe it scummy most likely but then saying also town can does it and distancing from it without literally saying anything worth of context about it scummy. I find how you asking for him to have extra days there but not unvoting the slot instantly inconsistent and scummy. I find how you reacted to eye theoretical talk + how you reacted to the claim consistent and in both cases distancing from the heated slot and positioning yourself the way scum does it and scummy.

Also, I know how to play the game thank you very much for your concern. I deduced you're mafia for good reason and I'll keep my vote on you and will explain to whoever questions it.

"Again I don't think you are town this game."

No one cares what you say you think.

People care about what you actually give about other slots and the content you make.

You can't just produce a read from nothing.

A town with a specific mindset works on stuff and makes reads based on something. Your read is literally the most baseless read anyone had ever about my slot in any mafia game I ever played. You literally first said you scum read me for having a town read on slot and discussing the claim is null, then you said you scum read me for having a null read on the slot (which is false as I clearly said in the same post you quote for it that its a town lean) then you said having a town lean on the slot for finding him consistent is nonsense as you literally admit that I have the read. You literally contradict yourself over and over and over and over about every single I said since we started arguing and you make no sense with any of your professions about your read on me.

because you never sorted my slot

You just want to argue that I'm mafia cause you like to and your read is fake

yeah, you gonna flip red and I will be on this tunnel vision till it happens.

Entertain me btw, how do you think a backup claim will solve itself? because it can't solve itself. It's literally one of the few claims that in no context can solve itself. You're literally double downing on the most absurd theory talk which was not even related to the push against your slot to discredit whatever I said about you.

[Frozen Angel]

I know when someone has a consistent mindset forming a read on me and when I see a fake one generated. It specially works better when I'm the one they are making this read on, so I always try to be center of attention and one v one people as I'm sorting them and you know it. You know how my scum hunting is behavior analysis not direct action analysis and you know how I always hunt for inconsistencies in personality trait and in pattern of behavior as I honestly believe nearly no action is inherently scummy but they can be more likely from town or scum mindset when they appear in certain patterns of behavior.

You should know how I play the game even if it's been so long since I played on this website and if you didn't know it for real you would have question it, not fake a scum read on it when it's actually pretty evidently a method for solving the game. You just faked a scum read on my slot cause it was the most convenient for you when I called you out and you tried to justify it by misrepresenting some stuff like my eye push that even if those misrepresentations where true would put me and you on same spot with game and would never justify a scum read by you on my slot.

so, you always try to be center of attention, one v one people, and scumhunt by determining if someone is forming a fake read on you. and you are saying that you think Nero should know this about you. correct?

you are also saying that he faked a scumread on you because it was most convenient for him. if he should know how you play and how you are always looking for fake scumreads on you, then how would it be most convenient for him to fake a scumread on you? seems p inconvenient to me actually

I explained it here

lets just argue that its not a progressed read. Why do I have to have one? I mean can't I just scum read scum thats pushing me for shit reasoning like I do it most games?

If you were saying you scum read me cause I scum read you since page 1 of this argument, I would feel a lot different right now cause its in-town nature to feel defensive and guard back at unknowns pushing them.

But that's not the case. You were building up to drop that vote by going back and mis representing my argument with eye and then you just went ahead and dropped the vote later after I called you out on it. This just proves you just had no progressed mindset to have that read on my slot. it pretty much only makes sense from a mafia!nero mindset who saw he is being repeatedly called out by a player who was alone in her mind set so you though by being aggressive in return you could gain credit, even set me up in return as you really really really were not scum reading me in any context back then.

then you saw no choice but to double down on it when you got called out on it. You simply have 0 reasons to scum read my slot so you generated literally crap and branched through them in addition to mirror my accusations against you to justify it however you could

that's literally the only way I can see it and I know its true.

[Frozen Angel]

Vote nero

[Frozen Angel]

I'm looking up from my tunnel vision

done

He is scum

I'm back on the tunnel vision.

I analyzed a pattern of what he did in this game and they don't make sense together as town at all. I believe that close no action is inherently scummy actually. I know that for sure and you're right. But he did the same thing with eye theory that he did with hockey claim. His reaction to being called out on it is literally text book mafia mindset pattern of behavior.

So no I don't investigate any action to call it town or mafia. I actually talked about his mindset since a very long time ago in this day till he dropped his read on my slot without actually having it.

I made no inconsistencies no misrepresentations and had no memory lapses and made no mistakes so you don't dare shade me like that without actually talking about it.

Lynch me if you want. I will be there when a scum nero just coasts to end game with his "yeah this is more likely from scum but town can also do it" or "This is either scum or town eye doing it" kind of posts all over the place.

[Frozen Angel]

Like what are you threatening me off? I'm not backing off from my read unless if you show me where I'm wrong with it or have other explanations for it.

You think I will not fix my read if I realize I'm wrong with it?

You think I will not call out scum cause no one else is pushing him but me?

[Frozen Angel]

Vig him or something if you feel that strong about it

wish I could. definitly would play this day phase differently if I was a vig

[Frozen Angel]

I believe in you FA

Thanks Stephen

[Frozen Angel]

I believe in you FA

would Like to know your read on scorpoius and andante btw if you read their latest posts

[Frozen Angel]

3

4 votes are still needed

[Frozen Angel]

Not actually I have a town read on the worst for overkill last post not even realizing he is replaced out and worst reacting in real time to discussions felt natuaral. And stephen is an early town lean of mine for his early reation test but i have less confidence with that read.

[Frozen Angel]

Not actually I have a town read on the worst for overkill last post not even realizing he is replaced out and worst reacting in real time to discussions felt natuaral. And stephen is an early town lean of mine for his early reation test but i have less confidence with that read.

Thoughts on a Nero Umlaut scum team?

Umlaut literally came in the game posted 2 catch-up posts that said he cant continue for valentine's day but also reacted to the ongoing argument between me and Nero .

Literally, nothing much there to make a kind of decisive read for the slot (while I actually liked the catch up posts and the reaction individually and I liked how they progressed in them) - less so for even an association connection

Why would you even ask such a question about that slot? Your read on the slot is so shallow on the surface and you literally never said anything about agreeing with my read on nero so how you go from "let's pressure the umalut slot so he can make content" to "do you see him scum with nero?"

[Frozen Angel]

lmao, is your ego really that big? you think you have made zero mistakes?? come on. everyone makes mistakes. nobody is gonna call out things wrong with your argument because you have flooded the thread with wallposts and idk if anyone besides me is even reading them at this point. i think you probably would fix your read if you realize what is wrong with it (if you're town), i just doubt that you will realize anything is wrong with it. last time i pointed out how i thought your case didn't hold up, you just talked around it. you have consistently just reasoned out a way that events fit to the narrative you came up with, instead of looking at both sides and seeing which is more likely. and he could be scum, btw, i just think your reasoning is bad and full of mistakes. but anyway okay here you go

Its not about my ego. I don't matter at all. I'm just trying to solve the game and get my point across, you pointed at something and asked about what was the difference between what he said and what you said and I tried to explain. You analysed the claim, got in argument with someone about how claiming back up can mean different things and made your own tell out of it and Nero didn't. I'm not trying to

create a narrative

. I'm just saying I can't see any other mindset that explains the pattern of behavior.

And yes everyone makes mistakes. What I meant there and I said is if I realize it I fix my mistake. You can't just say she has a lot of mistakes and not point out what you think they are - that was my point.

I'll respond to what I think about what you think are my mistakes and we can discuss all of them freely till one of us is convinced otherwise.

- Point 1:

he didn't ask for extra days, he said it might be the correct play to do so. those are substantially different

I find the fact he didn't

unvote

scummy. He said and I repeat "Scum more likely do this but so is town, It's best if we check this out in future days" He can't have it both ways. He either think the claim is verifiable and resolvable and unvotes with a town mindset, or thinks its a fake claim by scum - unverifyable and doesn't unvote, Him saying that and not instantly unvoting is inconsistent and is just distancing from the outcome of whatever happens with the slot

- Point 2:

just straight up false and i have no idea where you got this. he first scumread you in 533 for your argument with eyes, or possibly in 716 for what he thought was a bad case on him. neither of those are at all about having a townread on hockey.

This is 533:

it might be b/c I've already seen Eyes response to the pressure on him but I feel like FA's claim that Eye's reads are fabricated is pure nonsense. He's either scum that's doublind down or that that actually believes in that theory.

@Dwlee, in 505, u said eyes+FA could be partnered(presumably cuz of 503?), but why are u big on that being a partnery psot, when the same logic can be applied to u. Eyes TR'D you even after u being a replacement

oof

who are we limming? or like top 2-3 names?

hockey? greeting? frozen angel? eyes?

Where is any indication of scum reading my slot or any reason specified in here about him scum reading me in this post? calling my argument nonsense is scumreading me? He just threw in some names like he did in previous posts but never pushed any of them to sort them in the whole game.

This is literally two posts above that:

I like this post very much. Maybe I should look into Nero Cain after all?

it was dumb when she said it and it's still dumb when you agreed with it.

VOTE: Andante

Dante is scummy for scum reading Scorp?

It's also an interesting coincidence that I blasted you for not voting and then you vote...

Frozen Angel [1]: HockeyFan
Greeting [1]: Eyes without a face
Stephen A Smith [1]: Greeting
Andante [1]: Scorpious

not voting [3]: 0verki11, Frozen Angel, Andante

Andante [2]: Scorpious, HockeyFan
Greeting [1]: Eyes without a face
wavemode [1]: Greeting

not voting [3]: 0verki11, Frozen Angel, Andante

like all these players being useless with thier vote. With the exception of Andante, I expect there to be multiple scum in this group.

again throwing in half of the game as potential future pushes for himself without 0 analysis on any of them. and I have to add that "He's either scum that's doublind down or that that actually believes in that theory." from nero in that same post you mentioned was another instance of him literally saying nothing while trying to appear as he is solving a slot (that was about eye)

I got that because he started voting me after I voted him, he mentioned my argument with eye again and called me defensive in them, then when I said he is trying to shade to build up toward a vote, he went for the vote and then started questioning my hockey read which I answered. His response was "I could swore that you were town reading him" So he pushed my read on hockey assuming I'm townreading the slot and have him on highest tier of reads, but then he started pushing the same read accusing me of fence sitting cause I claimed a null read on the slot (which I didn't I always had it on slight town lean) and you can fact check this by reviewing the arguments.

Here was where that happened:

I coulda swore you town read him at some point :/

I respond to next points in next post

i changed one bolded word into an underlined one because it was confusing the vote counter ~D

[Frozen Angel]

- Point 3

so all of the times recently where you said you always expressed a town lean and never a null are false, and it's very understandable how Nero could be confused about what your read actually was because you keep changing your own representation of it.

I don't care about his confusion over my read. What I find scummy is how he literally did a 180 and still pushed me for it from the new direction. Let me say it like this

Assume you're scum reading a slot because you think their read makes no sense. You're under assumption they are defending the slot. then you realize they actually aren't defending the slot, you would think about how is this actually making sense with all other stuff they said about them right? Nero didn't try to evaluate how what I said makes sense with everything else I said about slot. Nero first under the assumption that I town read the slot made a push on me, then outright pushed me for fence sitting when he realized I'm more close to null read on it which is inconsistent with a town mindset trying to actually solve my read.

As for my readers. It's pretty straightforward. and I said this like a thousand times. I find hockey hard to sort because of how he posts which keeps alrming me which he is consistent with it, I think the claim means nothing as it's literally not verifiable, he didn't have to claim it there at all and it's easiest fake claim possible for a scum to make (I explained all before). but I find his claim and attitude in-game consistent,

which gives me a town lean

, at the same time he did many things before which were alarming individually that I called out which nothing had any relation to his claim which still are worrying me about the slot. I can name all of them again if it's needed.

I have never been inconsistent with explaining this and you can literally see me repeating the same thing in different ways all through my read progression. I started to not suspect hockey as hard after I established with myself he is consistent around the time I voted andante way before his claim.

-Point 4

obviously false, he said why in his posts before he voted you

no, he didn't ever

He made a fake shading build up to it and then jumped at it. then tried whatever he could see to act like he is sorting me or justify his read on me while most he did was reflecting whatever accusation I made about his slot back at me.

His only argument before his vote on me was how I was undecided about hockey myself too like him, which how relates to him scum reading me if he believes we were on same page?

Or maybe you mean him mentioning how "defensive" I was in an argument with the eye? Now wasn't that a fun time for him to push me for that when he literally referenced it way before that himself and never decided that it was scummy of me for being on that argument? nevermind how much of misrepresentation it was as I never voted eye for assuming his theory is about me. I voted eye when he said he never meant the theory about me and then for not pushing on his own read from the supposably reaction test he did with it.

[Frozen Angel]

- Point 5:

you just saying something doesn't make it true. his posts that you're referencing here definitely look to me like they are expressing suspicion on you and explaining why, you've just decided they aren't for some reason.

He is naming half the bloody game in those posts and never says anything that is directly even about me

how are those suspecting me in any sense?

reading them can only makes me conclude he wanted to have options to push later on, and he decided to go after me when I called him out and he saw I have no support with it. How else can it be interpreted?

- Point 6:

you have the timeline wrong here. he called out your eye push before you called out his post about the claim. it also was not a misrepresentation, you definitely looked defensive to an outside observer. and how can you think that you have the right to decide what justifies someone else's scum read? just because you say that his reasons aren't good enough for you (obviously they will look bad to you, they're about you) doesn't mean they aren't good enough for him. i think it's very reasonable for him to scumread you in this situation, especially with the way the argument has progressed

also posting what I said:

You just faked a scum read on my slot cause it was the most convenient for you when I called you out and you tried to justify it by misrepresenting some stuff like my eye push that even if those misrepresentations where true would put me and you on same spot with game and would never justify a scum read by you on my slot.

I didn't mention anything abut the time line. He was casting shade on my argument with eye, he did so before, he decided to do it again the moment I pushed him, then he doubled down on it with a vote. I don't care if you also think I looked defensive there. Claiming I was "Looking defensive" there was never even my point against nero and what I called misrepresentation. What I called misrepresentation was about why he claimed I voted eye, when he read the argument enough to comment on it repeatedly. I was even accused of defending the slot right before I voted him for him claiming I was not directly hinted by him after his theory (which was a misunderstanding that clarified and I wanted to unvote him there when he just made that absurd back off from his reads that I still find inconsistent and scummy.

I never thought I have the right to discredit anyone method for solving the game. I'm accusing nero that he is not using any method to do so. I'm saying he is throwing shades, keeping everything both ways, not committing to them and then he pushed me without believing it because it felt like that to me based on me reading his posts there and how inconsistent he was with his supposable mindset when pushing me.

Thats my take on the matter.