Mini Normal 2268 Game Over

[humaneatingmonkey]

VOTE: dkkoba

[humaneatingmonkey]

paduptidupdup

[humaneatingmonkey]

where are you guys getting all these town vibes from there's nothing ai here anything can be fake

[humaneatingmonkey]

i think humaneatingmonkey stinks like poo

koba i think you're poo

[humaneatingmonkey]

i'm claiming that i'm not in any hood

[humaneatingmonkey]

marcistar is so kawaii

[humaneatingmonkey]

that's a valid read into the game

[humaneatingmonkey]

idk if koba is town. i dont know if a rapid show of gamesolving to get townread early is outside of their scum range. i also think that the way they went so hot on Dwlee on a poor reaction test makes me think it's fabricated so they can have somewhere to push.

[humaneatingmonkey]

like where did the traitor talk come from?

[humaneatingmonkey]

oh yeah? tell me why im scum

[humaneatingmonkey]

okay batman

[humaneatingmonkey]

are you just trying to push back against people townreading them

this

the argument against dwlee resonates with me too. it is overdefensive to the outside eye. but maybe? maybe it's just how dwlee would push back regardless of alignment? that's also possible. dwlee owned me as scum once, and he was pretty good at image management. so i'm suspicious, but i have reservations calling scum

[humaneatingmonkey]

am i supposed to townread this

[humaneatingmonkey]

nah HEM you are implying I am scum and are afraid of town!me gaining any power <3 i know scum fear when i see it

ggwp see u next game HEM/NK15/Dwlee

like would you seriously believe this if you were town here

[humaneatingmonkey]

for sure, but i can't call it scum right now

[humaneatingmonkey]

dwlee isnt town yet

[humaneatingmonkey]

okay so if im scum and you're town, why should i be scared of you?

[humaneatingmonkey]

no idea yet. trying to sort you right now.

[humaneatingmonkey]

hectic what do you think of koba

[humaneatingmonkey]

sorry tictac

[humaneatingmonkey]

who has experience playing with koba in the game?

[humaneatingmonkey]

my main thing right now is i think i can correctly identify you as town or scum depending if you're being serious or if you're trying to seem serious

[humaneatingmonkey]

i'm claiming that i'm not in any hood

why tho?

so it's out of the way. someone might revolve their game around theories of who's in a hood or not, and i declared for the sake of clarity.

[humaneatingmonkey]

koba, maybe give me three people who you think can properly identify you as town in this game. I'll talk to them.

[humaneatingmonkey]

does not known 15 usually straight up ignore neighborhoods like this?

talk to me instead

[humaneatingmonkey]

okay i think hectic is town if you guys can tell me that: 1) he's not trolling right now and 2) he would seriously believe what he's posted so far as town

[humaneatingmonkey]

koba i mean

[humaneatingmonkey]

because the alternative is: 1) they're trolling, NAI or 2) they're scum trying to get townread early using forced reads and positions that they barely believe

[humaneatingmonkey]

why would they have to? if town and it's within their reportoire, they already took that shot in dwlee. i'm not sure there was any development in that read thus far — so why would they do another forced read and vote me?

only scum would have to, maybe

[humaneatingmonkey]

i think guiltylion seems like his normal self so far, what do u think about him?

i have no baseline. he seems reasonable enough to talk to. do you think he's outside of his scum range?

[humaneatingmonkey]

i dont know if GuiltyLion is the type of scum who would back off a public scumread who is gaining steam after some behind-the-curtain assessment that it's just Dwlee's personality

[humaneatingmonkey]

unless both are partnered, maybe

[humaneatingmonkey]

tho actually they do it cause it's what they do as town (as both align)

ah okay. so... trolling, you think?

[humaneatingmonkey]

thanks tictac

[humaneatingmonkey]

still deciding

[humaneatingmonkey]

cant figure out if you're being disingenuous on purpose

[humaneatingmonkey]

im not being disingenuous buddy

okay then i just think you're scum

[humaneatingmonkey]

but he uses lots of words and i feel like thats his townie attitude right?

sure, but they can also use lots of words and emulate their townie attitude as scum. right now, he's pushing using very forced reads and i think it's likely using them so he can emulate their townie attitude (his usual talkie self - as you say).

[humaneatingmonkey]

what do you think about my 133 and 134, marci?

[humaneatingmonkey]

they're pushing me right now for not having reads while i'm out here doing nothing but throw out reads. you dont think that's disingenuous?
they voted me for being "in fear" that they would have power because they have solved the game in 5 pages. you dont think that's disingenuous?
they voted dwlee for saying "nice" in response to Koba claiming traitor (aka, Koba thinks Dwlee should have responded differently - maybe more serious?). this one i actually forgive because it's early game. but doing it a second time when their initial move (dwlee) has not fallen out of steam and has not progressed is a bit... sus.

[humaneatingmonkey]

like.. idk if its scum indicative for him.. ive seen him rethink and doubt his reads before like that

rethink and doubt reads as scum? i'm saying is i don't know if he's that type of scum player. meaning, he could be town with the exception that he is capable of doing internal rethinks as scum or he's partnered with dwlee

[humaneatingmonkey]

#154 is about Koba and #155 is about GuiltyLion

[humaneatingmonkey]

you're watching me have reads right now

[humaneatingmonkey]

okay tomato tomato

[humaneatingmonkey]

removing nuance to support your push is ngl

[humaneatingmonkey]

good idea. bring your buddies so i can have the scum team in one neat file.

[humaneatingmonkey]

im not being disingenuous buddy

okay then i just think you're scum

[humaneatingmonkey]

let's not spam the thread for stuff neatly explained in my iso mmkay

[humaneatingmonkey]

i think you're likely scum because i think if you were scum, you would play up to your townplay that provokes and pushes. you gave us that at the start, but the difference is: you're insistent that your reads aren't a bit disingenuous (which you would have admitted by now if you were town) when they ARE disingenuous. i think you're saying this so we can take you seriously and townread you, but it has the opposite effect.

i said this to marcistar about dkkoba, when marci thought koba can't see that koba was disingenuous.

they're pushing me right now for not having reads while i'm out here doing nothing but throw out reads. you dont think that's disingenuous?
they voted me for being "in fear" that they would have power because they have solved the game in 5 pages. you dont think that's disingenuous?
they voted dwlee for saying "nice" in response to Koba claiming traitor (aka, Koba thinks Dwlee should have responded differently - maybe more serious?). this one i actually forgive because it's early game. but doing it a second time when their initial move (dwlee) has not fallen out of steam and has not progressed is a bit... sus.

[humaneatingmonkey]

ebwop: marci cant see koba was being disingenuous

[humaneatingmonkey]

lol

[humaneatingmonkey]

so can you explain this

why would they have to? if town and it's within their reportoire, they already took that shot in dwlee. i'm not sure there was any development in that read thus far — so why would they do another forced read and vote me?

only scum would have to, maybe

[humaneatingmonkey]

thanks now we agree we are talking about the same thing. that thing you do that i call disingenuous and you call exaggerated.

[humaneatingmonkey]

i tend to value in thread interactions > pressuring whats not there when im town

when im scum its like easier for me to get caught up with players not here so i can appear busy and not advance anything

why not just wait? you have a wagon on him.

though you switching to me is actually +town

[humaneatingmonkey]

yeah actually me too now

[humaneatingmonkey]

unless partnered with Dwlee i guess

[humaneatingmonkey]

UNVOTE:

can you tell us about dwlee in your hood?

[humaneatingmonkey]

thanks koba

[humaneatingmonkey]

if nk15 is the non traitor scum then rofl

I have not seen any credible explanation.
As soon as I begun questioning them I landed in koba's scum pile.
This is scum. VOTE: Koba

what do you think about koba now?

[humaneatingmonkey]

dwlee isnt around to interact with me + i have been talking a bit in our hood.

this actually led me to believe that there was more to the hood though, and that your read developed. is that part of the random stuff?

[humaneatingmonkey]

doesn't seem like much happened in your neighborhood for you to mention that both of you have been talking

[humaneatingmonkey]

you're insistent that your reads aren't a bit disingenuous (which you would have admitted by now if you were town) when they ARE disingenuous

1) what is the idea that koba would have already admitted disingenuous reads by now (the parenthetical in the quote) based on? is that past experience with koba?

2) I don't really think Koba's reads are disingenuous. I know you've explained why you think they are, but I disagree, they make sense to me

1) because town!koba knows where it would lead (a useless 1v1 with me) if he continues a facetious line of attack when he could just back off and explain himself
2) because they are. he admitted it.

[humaneatingmonkey]

now, koba, i might misgender you every now and then, but i promise you im trying.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Gamma what are you doing? you're doing nothing.

[humaneatingmonkey]

VOTE: Meuh

is this rvs? can you share your read on Meuh?

[humaneatingmonkey]

Originally I kinda thought Koba was scum trying to hard push Dwlee for freezing up, but I like their interactions with GL. Dwlee idk on but they're a little too blatantly self-conscious right now for me to think their reaction to pressure was scummy. So they're a town read and lean respectively for now.

I townread Koba, but can you tell me more about what about their interaction with GL that makes you think town?
Do you think Dwlee was being blatantly self-conscious is town-indicative? Why couldn't they be blatantly self-conscious and null?

[humaneatingmonkey]

I understand NK15. I also read Koba's opening as a huge open crumb that they're the traitor. But it could have also been a reaction test. I'm not following why he would vote GuiltyLion though. Mostly, GL feels towny (but I'm hesitant to townread) and if NK15 wants to push there maybe he can clarify his read.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Why? I'm leaning into GL town because of the behind-the-scenes read change for a wagon that's gaining steam (isn't it counterproductive to do that as scum?) but it's not really hard to do as scum and can be tactical if Dwlee is a partner. Plus, when prompted, he actively tried to make me question his townness (another counterproductive thing to do as scum, yet might also be done to pocket me)

Looking for other perspective on GL before closing my read there.

[humaneatingmonkey]

seems reasonable though

Koba can be against lumping mechplay and dayplay, that's fine and I can empathize with that perspective, but it isn't going to change my opinion as it relates to the hoods and this game here. I know it's unsatisfying for you but I'm not really willing to discuss the point further, I will assure you that "being in a hood" is never going to be my sole or primary reason for wanting to eliminate somebody especially the deeper into the game we go

[humaneatingmonkey]

i think town!koba does not genuinely think i'm scum there.

i'm not trying to defend you. i'm actively making other people spell out why you're scum.

so why do you think it's still a good vote?

[humaneatingmonkey]

I think scum!Koba would keep prodding there, while town!Koba would see that continuing to prod could potentially be anti town and back off.

Somebody mentioned earlier that Dwlee is good about self-image stuff as town and I agree there. Dwlee's town and scum play isn't quite night and day, but I feel that they could've easily handled it better if they were scum.

it was me who said it. i agree with this. i think Dwlee and Koba can both be in my townblock.

[humaneatingmonkey]

GL, why? Why do you think I'm scum? I don't even think Koba really believes what they're saying, but you do? Can you explain your read on me?

[humaneatingmonkey]

that sounds like horseshit. why shouldn't i townread you?

what do you think about roden's read on dwlee?

[humaneatingmonkey]

Gamma where are you in this game

[humaneatingmonkey]

idk but i remember you being really active during early game but im not seeing that from you right now

why is nk15 and marci TRs?

i think scum!GL is trying to pocket me right here.

p-edit: @Gamma

[humaneatingmonkey]

I also think you've been mostly just taking a backseat gamestate wide to critique various townreads/scumreads without trying strongly to shape the game any which way, definitely not towards your own reads

HUH

[humaneatingmonkey]

marci I think is just vibing town rn

i understand this. voting Meuh out of nowhere seems tactless as scum.

[humaneatingmonkey]

GL, you've called me scum multiple times now but i dont see any votes. you've parked your vote on Dwlee for "not having any townvibes yet" but you've been scumreading me this whole time?

[humaneatingmonkey]

how is not liking you defending me and calling you scummy an attempt to pocket?

so i can townread you duh

[humaneatingmonkey]

i'm building a townblock

[humaneatingmonkey]

you cant seriously think dwlee wakes up and become instantly pressured by the votes in his wagon. do you?

[humaneatingmonkey]

why dont you vote me instead and push me if you really think im scum. let's see how you can sustain that.

[humaneatingmonkey]

VOTE: GuiltyLion

[humaneatingmonkey]

dwlee and GL are suspects

his insistence that there has to be scum in a hood skeeved me really badly.

let's do GL

[humaneatingmonkey]

HEM: "I TR GL for [x] and [y] reasons"
GL: "I don't like HEM TRing me for those reasons, they don't feel natural to me nor are they all that AI"
HEM: "wait, so you scumread me? despite me townreading you?"
GL: "yeah, your reasoning feels fake to me"
HEM: VOTE:

oh you reframed the conversation to fit your agenda. +scum

[humaneatingmonkey]

I'll push you if and when I see fit

so null Dwlee > scum HEM because Dwlee is more likely to be wagoned gotcha

[humaneatingmonkey]

1. I dont TR you. I'm holidng back the TR on you, and I've been discussing it with other people.
2. I dont have any problem with you scumreading me despite me townreading you. I have a problem with you scumreading me and not voting me meanwhile you're voting Dwlee because "pressure" when you've provided doubt on their scumminess

[humaneatingmonkey]

yep. I'm still very interested in sorting Dwlee

and not the scum engaging you right now. because you dont think you can push me into an elim.

weird considering the only people who think like that are scum. there's a lot of space for you to build a wagon on me right now.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I am frequently mistakenly scumread. Do you think, right now between both of our ISOs, the odds that I am scum are higher than the odds that Dwlee is scum?

le old active defense

[humaneatingmonkey]

and, whatever your alignment is, you're also committing the mafia fallacy of finding reasons to scumread the player who is putting forth a ton of content into the thread, over the player who made a handful of scummy posts and since hasn't posted

whatever my alignment is? i can only have this perspective when i'm town.

you're speaking to your scumread like they're town.

[humaneatingmonkey]

like it's nice that you even put "whatever my alignment is" there just so you can keep it neutral lmao

[humaneatingmonkey]

I'm sorry, did the dictionary get updated when I wasn't looking so that "I'm leaning into GL town" (257) doesn't actually mean you are town-leaning me?

like if you spend some real time reading you'd understand that I'm challenging my read on you

[humaneatingmonkey]

DODGE? you mean the question i answered in the top of the page?

this is pure gotcha-ism, don't do gotcha-ism, it isn't a good look

[humaneatingmonkey]

@Koba
@Gamma
@Dwlee

also appealing to the rest of the playerlist

Let's get a REAL wagon going.

[humaneatingmonkey]

2. I dont have any problem with you scumreading me despite me townreading you.

did I misunderstand these posts?

GL, why? Why do you think I'm scum? I don't even think Koba really believes what they're saying, but you do? Can you explain your read on me?

that sounds like horseshit. why shouldn't i townread you?

what do you think about roden's read on dwlee?

how does any of these posts indicate that the reason why i'm voting you is because
you're scumreading me despite me townreading you?

[humaneatingmonkey]

wanted to see why Koba themselves don't take their reads seriously, but you do

[humaneatingmonkey]

a page is enough and i dont think this progresses much with a spat, just spamming the page. I'll eagerly wait for others to join in the party.

[humaneatingmonkey]

yes. i even think Dwlee is town.

[humaneatingmonkey]

that's honestly a baffling position to me for someone to take

explain

[humaneatingmonkey]

dwlee is very good at image management. i dont buy that as scum, he blunders immediately in koba's hood when koba jokes about being traitor and here when he immediately picks a fight with Koba, Testarossa and you.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Dwlee has 5 posts and none of them strike me as Towny Posts that especially Town Town. if you disagree with that, point me to the town post that I missed. so anyone with a TR there is already kinda inherently odd to me.

meanwhile, I have some 46 posts. I'll grant that there's almost certainly reasons to worry about or suspect me in those 46 posts, especially since I also don't think I'm a player that should be easily townread. that's the nature of mafia

however, I think from a general probability sense, if you're looking at two players and thinking you have more confidently sorted the one with 5 posts as not-scum than the player with 46, on D1 without any flips for associatives or hard information, then I would say

at best

you are biasing, either against me or pro-Dwlee. when you have Dwlee as town and me as scum at this point, especially in part

because

I'm voting Dwlee, to me it feels like you're suggesting that a dwlee redflip would surprise you more than a GL greenflip. I have a hard time grokking that perspective.

gut says this is scum. i bet i can explain why. but I'll need to focus on work now.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Can I sell you on the GuiltyLion wagon? We can sort Meuh later.

FWIW i was recently in a trustfall game with Meuh and she was lurking it up the whole time as town.

[humaneatingmonkey]

we're not fighting, i think he's scum. do you want to ask me why?

[humaneatingmonkey]

lion thinks dwlee is scum for being "frozen" (not being able to reply as soon as, a thing made up by koba through their reaction test) and being overly defensive (which he also later realized that it could just be personality). sound like he null reads dwlee, right? (he later reinforces that he finds Dwlee still scummy for these reasons, backtracking on his progress on the slot).

meanwhile, he scumreads me but refuses to do more with my slot than slinging questions on my alignment. why? because he still wants to pressure his nullread Dwlee (whose wagon has fizzled out). why won't he pressure the scum that — in his town!POV — dragging his town name to the ground and engaging him right to his face? the answer is he's not town, and he's trying hard not to escalate.

even if you're not convinced and you nullread him at best, your vote could be productive as it would lead to a gamestate where we have actual wagons.

[humaneatingmonkey]

in our spat, you would notice that he's really trying hard to appease the scum baiting him into a 1v1 — instead of sorting me right here and there. is this town behavior? not really.

[humaneatingmonkey]

u cant tell me theres no difference

not yet. but i think meuh will be sortable if we create an event where she would need to take a position. this event is the guiltylion wagon.

let's do it, marci!

[humaneatingmonkey]

VOTE: Guilty lion
Not letting you get past me again

Well hello to you too!

VOTE: Dwlee99

Dwlee, can you link me to any prior town games of yours where you RVS voted someone based on a past game together like this? I think this style of RVS intro vote is slightly +scum, it's an easy/convenient reason to plop down your first vote and I'm also a lil pinged that you didn't really say hi or otherwise engage me directly

I never said nor meant to imply you were lying about it, I believe you. My issue is rather that you brought it up at all. who cares if koba thinks you are "frozen" or not?? you chose to say your IRL reason for not posting in the game just a couple hours into gamestart, it's the fact that you compelled to do that to reply to Koba that bothers me, not the reasoning itself. if his frozen accusation has no validity because it had no bearing on your alignment, why bring up something that has no bearing on your alignment (being out with friends) in response, especially when it's not like anyone else was agreeing with or sheeping Koba?

ehhh actually I'm thinking about this more and I'm not sure it's an especially great point

I think the main thing I didn't like is this idea that a. because you are out with friends and therefore not frozen scum, b. we're supposed to believe that you're town

but I'm realizing in fairness if you

know

you're town, it might make sense as a response, and I might be assuming/projecting b) when you didn't mean to suggest it to that degree.

I do think you're being defensive but that might be more of a personality trait here

then his later backtrack

I got into this exact argument literally just in my last game and I was right about redtea there too, who was being read as town for being "lazy" and not solving and oops turns out the simple obvious explanation was correct and they were scum.

I think townreading Dwlee for this "image management" point is bad. If your argument is that Dwlee knows how to be townread for "image" as scum then they owe it to us to image themself equally as town so that we don't mistakenly suspect them. Being so quick to get defensive at the first sign of pressure from koba is not inherently townie. I don't even care about any of the traitor reaction test stuff cause I can't read it myself, my read is all about the tepid RVS vote and the defensive response to being called frozen.

[humaneatingmonkey]

though maybe yeah idk

i remember there was one game where he didnt care about the wagon size of who he was pushingtho i cant remember the name

i still like voting meuh better tho bestie

please please please may i borrow your vote

I'll join any wagon you want in return

[humaneatingmonkey]

[4] GuiltyLion: Dwlee99, Not Known 15, humaneatingmonkey, DkKoba
[3] Dwlee99: Gamma Emerald, GuiltyLion, Testarossa
[2] Meuh: tictac, marcistar
[1] tictac: Meuh
[1] humaneatingmonkey: Roden

[1] Not voting: ChaosOmega

With 12 players alive, 7 votes are needed for an elimination.

D1: deadline: (expired on 2022-03-29 21:32:48)

you're funny norwee

[humaneatingmonkey]

VOTE: Dwlee confirmed scum

just the idea that I specifically need to vote you in order to "engage you right to your face" is frankly absurd, really

I am often accused of many things, but 'pockety' and 'trying not to escalate' are pretty rare on the bingo card, so props for that

then the fact that you're doing it totally means you're scum

[humaneatingmonkey]

this is when dwlee's wagon started

VOTE: Dwlee confirmed scum

this is when it fizzled out

VOTE: humaneatingmonkey
caught em

[humaneatingmonkey]

dwlee, will you catch up to the most recent post? please say you'll do pwease pwease

[humaneatingmonkey]

i dont know if GuiltyLion is the type of scum who would back off a public scumread who is gaining steam after some behind-the-curtain assessment that it's just Dwlee's personality

Where did they do this?

an excellent question which you'll find never once answered in the subsequent 200 posts

so scum

i did so

[humaneatingmonkey]

VOTE: Guilty lion
Not letting you get past me again

Well hello to you too!

VOTE: Dwlee99

Dwlee, can you link me to any prior town games of yours where you RVS voted someone based on a past game together like this? I think this style of RVS intro vote is slightly +scum, it's an easy/convenient reason to plop down your first vote and I'm also a lil pinged that you didn't really say hi or otherwise engage me directly

I never said nor meant to imply you were lying about it, I believe you. My issue is rather that you brought it up at all. who cares if koba thinks you are "frozen" or not?? you chose to say your IRL reason for not posting in the game just a couple hours into gamestart, it's the fact that you compelled to do that to reply to Koba that bothers me, not the reasoning itself. if his frozen accusation has no validity because it had no bearing on your alignment, why bring up something that has no bearing on your alignment (being out with friends) in response, especially when it's not like anyone else was agreeing with or sheeping Koba?

ehhh actually I'm thinking about this more and I'm not sure it's an especially great point

I think the main thing I didn't like is this idea that a. because you are out with friends and therefore not frozen scum, b. we're supposed to believe that you're town

but I'm realizing in fairness if you

know

you're town, it might make sense as a response, and I might be assuming/projecting b) when you didn't mean to suggest it to that degree.

I do think you're being defensive but that might be more of a personality trait here

then his later backtrack

I got into this exact argument literally just in my last game and I was right about redtea there too, who was being read as town for being "lazy" and not solving and oops turns out the simple obvious explanation was correct and they were scum.

I think townreading Dwlee for this "image management" point is bad. If your argument is that Dwlee knows how to be townread for "image" as scum then they owe it to us to image themself equally as town so that we don't mistakenly suspect them. Being so quick to get defensive at the first sign of pressure from koba is not inherently townie. I don't even care about any of the traitor reaction test stuff cause I can't read it myself, my read is all about the tepid RVS vote and the defensive response to being called frozen.

here's me explaining it to marci

[humaneatingmonkey]

so by his own admittance, there was nothing to progress the read from... and yet it did? it progressed BACK into where it was #326 AFTER i called him out on it?

then he'll say shit like this:

an excellent question which you'll find never once answered in the subsequent 200 posts

which solidifies that there's no good faith in GL right now. pretty interesting how he went from convincing me not to townread Dwlee anymore to being super aggressive after i called him out again is... pretty interesting. not ai, just pretty interesting.

[humaneatingmonkey]

So when did you realize you hadn't done the thing HEM said you did? Cause it seems here that to were saying you did do it but now you're saying you didn't do it and I don't see following posts going "wait I didn't do that"

an excellent question which you'll find never once answered in the subsequent 200 posts

[humaneatingmonkey]

wasnt your whole read

[url=viewtopic.php?p=13224946#p13224946]my read is all about the tepid RVS vote and the defensive response to being called frozen.

[humaneatingmonkey]

can we 1v1 later im nearing deadline hahahaha

[humaneatingmonkey]

you decided to switch gears just earlier, when you said "CONSIDER IT ESCALATED" so yeah

[humaneatingmonkey]

yes it's garbage reasoning but that's not the reasoning at all

[humaneatingmonkey]

time out

[humaneatingmonkey]

nice strawman though

[humaneatingmonkey]

thanks for quoting. yes that's my read.

[humaneatingmonkey]

nice wagon GL

[humaneatingmonkey]

sorry i'm spent from a two-day all nighters. more monkey tomorrow!

[humaneatingmonkey]

uhm, was GL at E-1 without much resistance? probably town

[humaneatingmonkey]

just kidding i havent read anything yet just scanned through

[humaneatingmonkey]

what's happening guys is GL still scum

[humaneatingmonkey]

Let's test out that solve today.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I don't think we've interacted much NK15. How's the game for you so far?

[humaneatingmonkey]

Why is Roden more concerned with defending GL than finding scum

[humaneatingmonkey]

yes it's true i've become lurky as fuck

[humaneatingmonkey]

dwlee is very good at image management. i dont buy that as scum, he blunders immediately in koba's hood when koba jokes about being traitor and here when he immediately picks a fight with Koba, Testarossa and you.

[humaneatingmonkey]

They've popped in a couple times to say "GL scum" and that's about it, their earlier fire is entirely gone.

it's true my earlier fire is entirely gone.

i'm really not paying any attention in this game.

but i've popped in to say "GL town", actually

[humaneatingmonkey]

HEM's reaction to GL felt heavily manufactured. I've already made this point two other times, but GL and I made similar arguments against HEM, yet GL was the one who took all the heat. Even now, I'm getting accused of not scum hunting, but no matter how many times I bring it up my scum hunting just seems to get ignored.

tell me how my feelings are invalid

[humaneatingmonkey]

the wagon went up to e-1 so fast, it can't be right

[humaneatingmonkey]

although... i confess not reading this game closely

[humaneatingmonkey]

we have 5 days. give me the weekend. im swamped with work.

[humaneatingmonkey]

it was a joke. your humorlessness deserves a dayvig shot.

link me your case

[humaneatingmonkey]

just send it again please

[humaneatingmonkey]

i'll read it this time i promise

[humaneatingmonkey]

these are your cases??

#240 i'm not trying to appease koba, i was sorting him.
#483 i scumread GL because how he behaved around his vote, his reads, and what town motivation should be is incongruent. you voted me. it's not the same.

jeez i thought you had more

[humaneatingmonkey]

remember: GL scumread me but didn't vote for me because he thought Dwlee was worth pressuring. The problem is: He already progressed that read to null, but backtracked to justify the vote parking. I see him dictate that "I just made one comment how could that be changing my read!" but one comment is enough to signal that your read has changed. So he was parking his vote on dwlee even though his scumread was yelling at his face for a full page. it didn't matter if he changed his behavior around my slot. the initial reaction was all i cared about.

though i'm gonna review what else happened with the rest of the day to get a better picture of the game.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I did more than vote you, I gave a reason for it. GL did the exact same thing. The problem is not that you scum read him for it, but that you were very aggressive towards him for it, but not me. We made similar reads but you only engaged with him about the read. Anything you engaged with me about was very specifically about other players.

what? were you expecting me to scumread you just for voting me? is that what you think is my reason for scumreading GL?

[humaneatingmonkey]

i didn't scumread him for his scumread on me. i scumread him for his activity despite his scumread on me. see the difference?

scum would keep their vote on dwlee for multiple reasons. 1) it was safe 2) it doesn't have to build consensus from group up (by voting me) 3) it can still develop into a limmable wagon

[humaneatingmonkey]

Furthermore, you actually town read GL for his behavior/reads/town motivation at first, and only swapped over to scum reading him when GL wouldn't budge and others began to openly call GL scummy. You didn't revert back to calling him town again until after his wagon died down.

wouldn't budge where? what did you think was i trying to do there?

[humaneatingmonkey]

aight. imma head out again. i'll be here weekend.

[humaneatingmonkey]

what would your reaction be if i just straight up tell you now that i'm town. would this save you energy? or do you know this after all?

you're barking up the wrong tree

[humaneatingmonkey]

consider that i flip town. what does that mean for your game here?

[humaneatingmonkey]

tell me about your other reads

[humaneatingmonkey]

could you be town here, nk15? i'm asking because i like you, we share a lot of sentiments. but i dont trust you because... we share a lot of sentiments (it feels as if you stand alone in reaffirming my view of the game). if you're town here, we can hold hands and be allies.

update: still not reading the thread.

[humaneatingmonkey]

what do you think about Meuh's read on Roden, NK15? When I read it, it does make sense that it's more probable that Roden is town here for defending GL.

[humaneatingmonkey]

lol Dwlee's voting for me did not know that

[humaneatingmonkey]

sure. i'll remember that for my reread

[humaneatingmonkey]

tell me about your other reads

Tictac
Shadow
GL
Koba
Dwlee
NK15

Marci
Chaos
Meuh

Gamma
HEM

Town/null/scum

The only ones not really mentioned in my ISO are Shadow, Marci, and Chaos. I liked Shadow's catch up post, effort =/= town but there was still way more effort than expected, and the contents itself was townie. Marci and Chaos haven't pinged me much one way or another, but I feel like I can read Marci over time, and since I town read Koba I can just defer to them for now on Chaos until I get something more alignment indicative out of them.

tell me about gamma

[humaneatingmonkey]

the contents itself was townie

can you tell me what contents are townie

[humaneatingmonkey]

just bringing in your perspective in my re-read

[humaneatingmonkey]

Chaos do you think Roden should be townreading you

[humaneatingmonkey]

The confidence in the push from HEM reads more like bravado (or confidence in himself) more than confidence in the read. There is probably a better way to put it, but I can't think of it.

am i not a bit suspicious

[humaneatingmonkey]

I wish you had just explained your read like this instead of taking the approach of challenging me to vote you

wheres the fun in that

[humaneatingmonkey]

i promise i'll get back on this game on the weekend. we still have solid 3 days left i think.

[humaneatingmonkey]

What do you think about the possibility scum!DkKoba bringing up traitor talk as a signal to traitor?

still have this on the back of my head

[humaneatingmonkey]

does dwlee really think im scum? i dont feel the sincerity.

[humaneatingmonkey]

who am i teammates with dwlee

[humaneatingmonkey]

okay why am i scum

[humaneatingmonkey]

like sorry for being lazy but i'd rather engage you this way

[humaneatingmonkey]

I made no posts between these two. Koba just made a joke about not listening to other people at all when I asked them to consider they could be wrong :^)

Do you mind giving me your current reads of the players (town/scum/null)?

@tictac: Do you mind giving me your thoughts on my other post to you, re: Meuh?

HEM/Gamma scum

NK/Marci/Koba one scum

this feels linked. can you walk me through?

keep seeing that i'm linked with Gamma somehow. curious if there's really something there.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I dunno what it is with this playerlist but it's really fucking tiresome to try to address every person's qualms with me, to try to still proactively question/interrogate other players, to be present for every development in the game, and to be met with just all around silence and players coming out of nowhere to vote me and not fucking talk about anything I've said or anything else happening in the game

like why should I even bother to make posts like 395 or 431 if people are just gonna AFK from the thread after voting/sussing me and not good faith engage with me trying to engage with them, and then have someone else just come in here, not acknowledge

anything

and E-1 me

full on frustration hahahahaha that's funny

[humaneatingmonkey]

yes im rereading

[humaneatingmonkey]

Wtf is this garbage wagon? Is there any particular reason you guys want to vote out the only person keeping the game alive? Like do none of you see that the further this wagon builds the more quiet this game gets? Game state alone shows that this is a wagon on town and that scum are just waiting for town to hammer for an easy Day 1.

eew

[humaneatingmonkey]

lurking Roden and Meuh suddenly pops out after GL gets sent to E-1.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Meuh and Roden never explained what makes GL so obvtown

[humaneatingmonkey]

ShadowGirl, do you still want #634 answered?

[humaneatingmonkey]

is GL really good with faking emotions? anyone here played with him before as scum? (or town)

[humaneatingmonkey]

I had a thought that HEM's read on me going from null -> town without me posting was really weird

hey

Somebody mentioned earlier that Dwlee is good about self-image stuff as town and I agree there. Dwlee's town and scum play isn't quite night and day, but I feel that they could've easily handled it better if they were scum.

dwlee is very good at image management. i dont buy that as scum, he blunders immediately in koba's hood when koba jokes about being traitor and here when he immediately picks a fight with Koba, Testarossa and you.

Dwlee, I am curious for your thoughts on this argument

Do you agree with this? Is it a good reason to townread you?

I think it's a decent reason, yea. I think I am more "polished" as scum

what the fuck

[humaneatingmonkey]

wont lynch today
DkKoba
Dwlee99
Meuh
GuiltyLion
marcistar
tictac
ChaosOmega
ShadowGirl

i dont know how to read this
Not Known 15

willing to lynch
Gamma Emerald
Roden

[humaneatingmonkey]

im confident that Koba, Meuh, Dwlee99, marci. townvibes from tictac but there really isn't anything strongly townie about them. i like NK15, but i dont know if the mindmeld is organic or they're trying to pocket me.

Gamma deserves a wagon just for putting GL in E-1.
Roden deserves a wagon just for their activity around GL's slot, how they're responding to Koba's pressure. Also, after voting me in #240 — there was no push in him to build a wagon on me. I wonder why, especially since the read and the vote stuck around for 20+ pages.

I want to know who's against both wagons.

[humaneatingmonkey]

get out of ChaosOmega's slot. the E-2 vote was not scum.

[humaneatingmonkey]

[3] Meuh: marcistar, GuiltyLion, DkKoba

why does this wagon even exist? has Meuh been scummy? #512 is townie imo

[humaneatingmonkey]

VOTE: Roden

[humaneatingmonkey]

nice comeback

[humaneatingmonkey]

explain why GL is obvtown

[humaneatingmonkey]

just one more i guess

[humaneatingmonkey]

Meuh just feels like scum to me. not all that engaged, surface level reads/analysis, 754 is a bizarre post like she's clearly sheeping tictac, why play the "I didn't say I agree with tictac!!" card in response to Koba's question??

what do you think about Meuh's response on why they sheeped tictac?

[humaneatingmonkey]

sorry didn't realize what i typed

[humaneatingmonkey]

okay thanks for this post because i took a closer look

Whats the difference between roden and meuh that makes you think that the meuh defense came from town and the roden defense from scum?

first, my impression was meuh had townread GL all along. i also thought her explanation for gamestates differentiates her from Roden's angle (which was GL was obvtown). but i wasn't sure enough, so so i looked. but to my surprise, that's not the case. she was scumreading him.

so im going to consider this.

[humaneatingmonkey]

You reread the game and somehow missed that even though I posted it four different times??

honestly roden yes

[humaneatingmonkey]

j think rodens fine rn ..?

do you want to share why you townread roden

[humaneatingmonkey]

How many fucking times do I need to quote that post

You reread the game and somehow missed that even though I posted it four different times??

yo seriously i iso'd you and i can't see it (why you think GL is obvtown). can you help out? sorry for inconvenience.

[humaneatingmonkey]

no one answered who would quickhammer a player as town in this playerlist

so this discussion is just a distraction and meant to avoid critical thinking about the action itself

meuh's not trying to argue that she's right. she's trying to let us know what was in her head in those moments. do you buy that this is where her head was? do you think this is townie? personally, im a bit convinced if not for the pure mechanical take on the game detached from any reads.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Koba, do you think Gamma is town?

[humaneatingmonkey]

Meuh, what's your read on Koba and Gamma?

[humaneatingmonkey]

can you drive me to that conclusion as well? i personally think i'm not seeing the confident scumhunting Gamma that I usually see in D1, and there wasn't any effort to sort my slot (which he usually starts with). also think that E-1 was blatantly anti-town.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Meuh im gonna be honest with you i think you're town

[humaneatingmonkey]

God if you’re scum you’re playing well, if you’re town you really need to work on avoiding conf-bias

do you think koba is scum here?

[humaneatingmonkey]

[3] Meuh: marcistar, GuiltyLion, DkKoba

this is your wagon. are these all town?

[humaneatingmonkey]

why do you scumread dwlee gamma

[humaneatingmonkey]

why do you think chaosomega is scum? that's where your vote is right now.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I haven't seen anything to go against the point that they reacted poorly to Koba's traitor claim

dwlee is very good at image management. i dont buy that as scum, he blunders immediately in koba's hood when koba jokes about being traitor and here when he immediately picks a fight with Koba, Testarossa and you.

you in this case was GL.

[humaneatingmonkey]

use it immediately against Koba and attract townreads from the protown activity of scumhunting.