I'll just
Mini 771 - Mafia in Ludd: Game Over
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Hmmmmmmm........ Ether's spreading lies(scummy)but at the same time she's being witty/clever(townish). I'M TORN!
I'll justvote: Patrick. He has never been scum in any game I've been in, we've been in 5+ games together, so I'd say he's due.[ooc][color=black]patrickgower2006 (8:12:03 PM): all beer tastes same to me
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Ah, so Ether's vote is serious. Well, allow me to dispel your fears then. Going through my sent messages, I actually confirmed with vollkan on Sunday, March 29th at 8 P.M. EST while I was away on my trip to Canada. You can see that I even opened the thread to my Newbie Game shortly thereafter. Anything else, miss?[ooc][color=black]patrickgower2006 (8:12:03 PM): all beer tastes same to me
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Post 17, Ether wrote:Your link weakens my point, but doesn't entirely counteract it--your access was still more limited than that of the rest of the cast.
This. ^^^[url=https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=898862#898862]Newbie 540[/url], Adel wrote:... the natural inclination of the human brain to recognize patterns even where none exist.
Perhaps we should take a poll and find out whoelsehad limited access this weekend. The fact that you know I had limited access makes this seem like a valid argument to you when in fact it's not.
Green Crayons, why did you completely ignore Ether's assertion that her vote was serious and proceed to place a joke vote without commenting on anything else?[ooc][color=black]patrickgower2006 (8:12:03 PM): all beer tastes same to me
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Mmmm. Despite the fact that camn referenced her meta-history with charter in her first post (which might make one believe that the vote was slightly more serious than first votes tend to come), the general feel of the vote definitely gave me the impression that her opening post was made in jest. camn's 33 only served to reaffirm this viewpoint for me and all additional posts made by her about the charter-subject seemed to be written by her at the request of other people. That's the way I read it at least, so I don't completely understand the camn-hate.
Green Crayons, "joke vote", "random vote", "arbitrary vote", "opening vote"... it's all synonymous to me. Apologies for the ego-bruising but yeah, that's how I do.
Post 31, Green Crayons wrote:Bad logic behind her vote.
You're seriously expecting logic behind an opening vote? Like forPost 10, Green Crayons wrote:vote: Yos.
End of the list.serious?
Yeah, I'm taking this slightly out of context but this still strikes me as odd. What did you make of the page 1 discussion put forth by Ether? You continued to joke around about the topic of "mith's minions" and "bacon". Was Ether's vote and reasons behind her vote on me not serious enough for you? Why was an unvote not warranted at that time?Post 32, DizzyIzzyB13 wrote:Unvote, Since we seem to be taking things seriously now.
There's something about Korts's 23 that I really dislike. I can't quite put my finger around it otherwise I'd elaborate further, but I'll try and do so if it comes to me.[ooc][color=black]patrickgower2006 (8:12:03 PM): all beer tastes same to me
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Green Crayons, according to you, the logic you used to base your vote on Yosarian2 was the fact that he was on the end of the [player] list. You then added that because he still hadn't posted within the thread since you placed your vote, this gave you more reason to consider your vote logically valid. The issue I have with this is unless you're apsychic(ha ha I crack myself up)you couldn't have possibly known that Yosarian2 wasn't gonna post after you placed your vote on him. The fact that you've now twice reaffirmed this fact (that Yosarian2 had yet to make a post) makes me feel like you're using after-the-fact justification to show why your vote is more logically sound and therefore better than camn's.
In response to the second half of your response, can you point to the camn-posts that made you feel like she was becoming "defensive"? I got the feeling that she was annoyed by you, maybe that she evendislikedyou, but not that she became defensive. I'm curious as to why your read of her actions differs from mine.
Errr... but wasn't it Green Crayons's argument against camn that made you think that the game was turning for the serious? That seems like a single person to me. Like Ether also seems like a single person to me. Do you have a habit of unvoting when the game leaves random and becomes serious?Post 36, DizzyIzzyB13 wrote:One person being serious does not mean the game is taking a turn for the serious.[ooc][color=black]patrickgower2006 (8:12:03 PM): all beer tastes same to me
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<3camn wrote:You are my favorite again.
Xylthixm is out.[ooc][color=black]patrickgower2006 (8:12:03 PM): all beer tastes same to me
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DizzyIzzy: I see your point now about the "random" stage, I guess, and how it wasn't just based on GC's argument against camn. As for the second part about unvoting, I don't think with a game this size and especially with the skill level of this group of players you need to worry about something crazy happening like an accidental lynch if you left an unattended vote out there.
Possibly.Post 60, Green Crayons wrote:I think it's interesting you think she was annoyed with me because I was asking her to explain herself. Do you think that was an appropriate reaction in a mafia game - to dislike people who ask you questions?
I think it's all about tone. If a person feels like you're being rude or condescending, he or she might be more likely to dislike you, not be cooperative with you, and not provide you with the answer you're looking for, which I think can happen independent of the alignment of the person answering the question. It's probably all about context -- camn's word choice ("combative") in post 30 made me think she wasn't being defensive but just put off by the tone you were using to question her.
@charter:In 26, she never said she was seriously pushing for your lynch as if you were scum with her vote -- just that in her experience you tend to appear scummy as town. Basically, I took 26 to be a continuation of the joke she began in her opening post that continued because Korts questioned and voted her for the meta-backed joke vote she made on page 1.
Hmmm... where's OGML?[ooc][color=black]patrickgower2006 (8:12:03 PM): all beer tastes same to me
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Hi, Brian.
No.Post 75, OhGodMyLife wrote:Incog's post 34 is defending camn almost too blatantly.
She defended herself prior to that post. I was giving my interpretation of the events; ya know, sharing my thoughts. It's good to do that sometimes.
First, I don't think the point made there by Korts was valid at all -- it seemed pretty obvious to me that camn's first post was a joke so to me the vote lacked a lot of luster. Second, why do you assume that those "bad vibes" only related to what he said about camn? Basically, it's hard for me to articulate in a meaningful way what it is I found wrong about Korts's opening post. The stuff he wrote about Ether just gave me a (deep breath) "I'm poss-scum who doesn't quite know what to say yet so I'll ask a silly question that I probably already know the answer to in an effort to make myself seem active" vibe. That's a mouthful and is largely speculative so I'd rather wait to see more from Korts before acting on it or elaborating on it. Third, what Patrick said -- my meta on you suggests that you tend to be a gut player when town so why would vibes bring you cause for concern?Post 75, OhGodMyLife wrote:It seems to me that Incog is trying to undermine a valid point made by Korts in 23 with nothing more than bad vibes.
This is a valid question. For a moment there, I thought the post was gonna conclude with a Korts-vote or even a charter-vote so I was a bit surprised to see a Pat-vote instead.Post 79, Green Crayons wrote:OGML: For having such a self-described "detailed" first post, why the lack of any (direct) reason given for the Patrick vote?
I agree on Ether; GC, eh, not so much.Post 75, OhGodMyLife wrote:I'm already pretty sure Ether and Green Crayons are town.
DizzyIzzy isn't scum hunting.
Unvote
Vote: DizzyIzzyB13[ooc][color=black]patrickgower2006 (8:12:03 PM): all beer tastes same to me
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That's a lot of "yets".Incog plays with colors while DizzyIzzyB13 wrote:Untrue. I justto have anything concrete to add. I haveyetto get a sense of how people are playing in this game. So far, I'veyetto really agree with any of the accusations of scumminess and I've found the particular attacks to be less that scummy. Sorry if the fact that I haveyetto form firm enough opinions on the game makes me seem scummy.yet
Would you agree or disagree with me when I say that >70% of your posts have been in response to things directed at you and not many have seemed to take the initiative to figure people out? If so, I'd call that not scum hunting.
@Xdaamno's 93:Does it bother you that I too called out DizzyIzzy for not scum hunting by page 4? What's the difference between my calling her out for this and charter's?
Because at the time, I knewPost 94, OhGodMyLife wrote:Well why didn't you just say so in the first place? As for agreeing with Patrick re: my stance on "vibes," see above.somethingfelt off about it but I couldn't put my finger on what it was that did. Since you commented on it in your opening post, I thought about what it was I thought was off about it and mentioned it. I still feel like there's even more to it than that but yeah.(It also kinda serves a secondary function of determining who's actuallyreadingmy posts, which is kinda cool.)[ooc][color=black]patrickgower2006 (8:12:03 PM): all beer tastes same to me
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wutPost 111, Green Crayons wrote:While I think both are leaning town, I think Dizzy is more firmly in the town camp than Ether at this point. So stick that in your pipe. (<3)[ooc][color=black]patrickgower2006 (8:12:03 PM): all beer tastes same to me
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I haven't read through the text walls yet but I have two questions which have been left outstanding by none other than the text wallers!:
Post [url=https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=1595670#1595670]110[/url], Incognito wrote:@Xdaamno's 93:Does it bother you that I too called out DizzyIzzy for not scum hunting by page 4? What's the difference between my calling her out for this and charter's?
(The second one was 'txt tlk' for the word "what?", as in elaborate on these reads, plz.)Post [url=https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=1596056#1596056]119[/url], Incognito wrote:
wutPost 111, Green Crayons wrote:While I think both are leaning town, I think Dizzy is more firmly in the town camp than Ether at this point. So stick that in your pipe. (<3)[ooc][color=black]patrickgower2006 (8:12:03 PM): all beer tastes same to me
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Reading through recent stuff as best as I could, I don't find Xdaamno's "lack of an unvote despite finding Patrick's reaction to his vote town-ish" to be that bad. I know that there have been times where I've had a vote on someone that I didn't necessarily think was doing much anymore, and I didn't bother to remove it simply because I couldn't find anyone else or anything else interesting enough to move it to, so I'd leave it where it is for the time being because I think having a vote in a certain location is usually better than having it remaining in the "Not Voting" column. I'd like to see Xdaamno's thoughts about other people.
Did we ever get a response to this:
I saw it quoted along the bottom of 131, but I didn't see any kind of reply to it. I'm interested in the bolded blue portion in particular.Post 128, Patrick wrote:
Can you explain how I missed the point? You say my phrases might indicate a scum alignment, I tell you it indicates nothing, what did I miss? I know that aren't trying to get me to change the way I post.Xdaamno wrote:As I said above, I'll now try and explain why I thought this post was town. The "this is just the way I post" defense is something I think I see quite a lot. It completely misses the point, but I can just put myself in the shoes of a town player being confused at why they are being attacked. I feel a scum player would not react in this way, because defensiveness would typically be a more dominant emotion than confusion is such a situation, IMO.Also, what's your take on GC?
It's weird actually -- I just get the feeling that Xdaamno wasn't really reading the thread that closely (if at all) up until he entered the massive argument with Green Crayons. The fact that hea)missed my question about my Dizzy-vote,b)missed Patrick's question about his issue with his questioning of OGML, andc)the two posts he called people out for (Patrick's 85 in Xdaamno's 88 and charter's 92 in Xdaamno's 93) were two of the most recent posts made when Xdaamno finally decided to begin posting again following his initial post all strongly suggest this.
@Xdaamno:Have you read any portion of the thread prior to when you entered this argument with GC? Any thoughts on that stuff?
I'll make a separate post about other things if I feel the need to right now. I don't want to get too lengthy at this time.[ooc][color=black]patrickgower2006 (8:12:03 PM): all beer tastes same to me
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Other stuff:
-~- DizzyIzzy's Korts-read scares the shit out of me.
-~- camn, Ether, and to a lesser extent charter seem townish. (camn and Ether are meta-reads; charter's more of a "having certain intangibles" read).
-~- I really, really, really wanna add Patrick here but it worries me that he didn't give me those instant town vibes that I'm used to receiving from him in past games we've played. I'm wondering if that's because he's been out of action for awhile or if he's just scum for once.
-~- It sucks that most everyone else seems to be in the "to be determined" bin.
Mod:Could you prod skitzer if you haven't already?[ooc][color=black]patrickgower2006 (8:12:03 PM): all beer tastes same to me
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Errr. Okay. And the answer to the GC question is?Xdaamno wrote:
Yes, of course. If I notice anything interesting, you'll be the first to know.Incognito wrote:@Xdaamno:Have you read any portion of the thread prior to when you entered this argument with GC? Any thoughts on that stuff?
Your read of him just differs from mine. The fact that you found something "pro-town" about him disturbs me. I have him down as neutral leaning scummy.DizzyIzzyB13 wrote:
How so?Incognito wrote:Other stuff:
-~- DizzyIzzy's Korts-read scares the shit out of me.[ooc][color=black]patrickgower2006 (8:12:03 PM): all beer tastes same to me
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Post 157, Incognito wrote:Did we ever get a response to this:Post 128, Patrick wrote:Also, what's your take on GC?[ooc][color=black]patrickgower2006 (8:12:03 PM): all beer tastes same to me
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If you think he's town and if you're town, why would you want people to choose sides on your back-and-forths?:
Post 132, Xdaamno wrote:Actually, you know, I would be fine if you just read a few of our back-and-forth points before you took sides, because I honestly believe I have defeated each and every argument he has presented.[ooc][color=black]patrickgower2006 (8:12:03 PM): all beer tastes same to me
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I'll have more later specifically directed at skitzer, but Yos2, how do your thoughts currently match what you mentioned in the Miller-claiming MD thread, specifically in this post:
Do you still feel the same way? If not, why?[url=https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=1471532#1471532]Miller Strategy?[/url], Yosarian2 wrote:(shrug) The one time I was a miller, I didn't claim miller, although I breadcrumbed it heavily, on the theory that if I claimed miller town would probably waste a lynch on me, whereas if I didn't, scum might kill me and/or cop might not investigate me; basically, the goal of my play that game was to try and play in such a way so that the cop wouldn't investigate me.[ooc][color=black]patrickgower2006 (8:12:03 PM): all beer tastes same to me
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Just because my vote isn't on him doesn't mean I haven't taken a stance. If I pointed out that kind of information, I think it's a pretty good assumption that I'm probably not buying the claim, but I want to hear his excuse anyway before lending my vote to the wagon.Post 187, OhGodMyLife wrote:Incog, given your particularly juicy piece of information pertaining to Yos2, why do you abstain from actually taking some kind of stance on him?
Where did I ever say that Ether was scum? I've pretty clearly stated that I think Ether's town. Also why did you ignore my 186?Post 195, Yosarian2 wrote:I guess Incog is right; she's probably scum; town Ether generally knows better then this.Vote:Ether
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Page 9 Votecount
camn (1/7): Korts,
charter (0/7):
DizzyIzzyB13 (1/7): Incognito,
Ether (1/7): Yosarian2
Green Crayons (0/7):
Incognito (0/7):
Korts (0/7):
OhGodMyLife (0/7):
Patrick (1/7): Xdaamno
skitzer (0/7):
Xdaamno (2/7): Green Crayons, Patrick
Yosarian2 (4/7): OhGodMyLife, camn, charter, Ether
Not voting (2/12):
skitzer, DizzyIzzyB13,
With 12 alive, it's 7 to lynch.
Countdown To Deadline
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Post 172, skitzer wrote:Incognito in Post 86: I almost feel that DizzyIzzy time is currently being taken up because he's still be hounded on for his vote on me. It almost seems like you are picking on him.
First things first, DizzyIzzy is aPost 172, skitzer wrote:On the DizzyIzzy case: It doesn't make sense to me. People are attacking her for not scumhunting when she's been busy answering questions.she(I see you got the right in the second quote).
Second, yeah, you didn't know? I'm the big bad town bully. /sarcasm
I don't think fielding questions and/or attacks shouldexemptsomeone from making an attempt to do some actual scum-hunting. I personally have been asked questions in this game, fielded attacks in this game, and have still made an effort to try and figure people out in this game, and I've done similar in past games too. All of this is simply a part of playing the game of Mafia -- if she's not doing so, I think it's perfectly fair for me to assume that she might be scum for not doing so. Also, your interpretation of events doesn't factor in the fact that DizzyIzzy herself mentioned that her typical method of scum-hunting is to wait around for the right moment to ask the key question. She compared this to some blunderbus and sniper rifle technique. I haven't done the meta-analysis to determine if what she's saying is factual, but it surprises me that you're accusing me of bullying her for not asking questions when she herself pretty much openly admitted to not doing soandsuggested that this is her typical method of scum-hunting. Please rationalize this.
On to Korts...
Yes.Post 201,Korts wrote:
And did you consider my point on camn any more serious than camn's initial randomvote reason?Incog, post 86 wrote:First, I don't think the point made there by Korts was valid at all -- it seemed pretty obvious to me that camn's first post was a joke so to me the vote lacked a lot of luster.
Are you now suggesting that it wasn't?
Since you're on a train, I'll do the legwork for you:Post 201,Korts wrote:
This interpretation is the most forced you can possibly get. my orignal question was something like "do you consider Incog confirming late scummy?" (I'm on a train without access, so I have no way to dig up the original), and while yes, I suspected there was an answer to that, you dismiss the fact that there was not much else in the way of discussion at that point.Incog, post 86 wrote:The stuff he wrote about Ether just gave me a (deep breath) "I'm poss-scum who doesn't quite know what to say yet so I'll ask a silly question that I probably already know the answer to in an effort to make myself seem active" vibe.
The above quote came after Ether made a total of 4 posts following her serious page 1 vote on me.Post 23, Korts wrote:I don't see why being late to confirm would be any kind of scumtell. You're saying that you really think the opposite, Ether?
So tell me, which of the four posts made you think that Ether wasn't serious about her vote on me?
I really look forward to this.Post 201,Korts wrote:I'm getting a scummy read off Incognito based purely on things up to page 4. I will get back to this after page 5.[ooc][color=black]patrickgower2006 (8:12:03 PM): all beer tastes same to me
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Partially because of 186 and partially because this is Yosarian2 we're talking about. If this was some brand spanking new MS player, I might be thinking exactly along the same lines as you. If Yosarian2 was town I think he'd know better than this, and the fact that he commented on everyone else's reaction post except mine which points out an obvious inconsistency between what he said here and what he mentioned in a completely unbiased forum of discussion in MD makes me think he might be scum who realized he botched up his claim.Patrick wrote:I agree that Yosarian didn't do much before the claim, but why do you guys think this is more likely to come from scum than a real miller?
I'm wonder when the last time Yosarian2 was a miller because comparing what Yos2 said here:
...to what he said in the MD thread (date stamp of the post isPost 178, Yosarian2 wrote:Note I did the same thing last time I was a miller.February 1st of this yearfor everyone's reference):
...either Yosarian2 has been Miller once again in the past two (2) months, or he's lying somewhere.Post 186, Incognito wrote:[url=https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=1471532#1471532]Miller Strategy?[/url], Yosarian2 wrote:(shrug) The one time I was a miller, I didn't claim miller
@OGML:
Incog-meta 101- Your game Mini 594 - Satin Doll Showdown. Erg0 claimed Miller when it was blazingly obvious that obvcop scotmany12 had investigated him. Note that I didn't vote Erg0 until we prolonged the day and gained more information from it.
The day's still young here, we're only a week in, and deadlines are set for three weeks. I think we can get plenty more out of this, and I'd like to keep my vote off Yos2 at this point to use for other purposes and to keep the discussion going. If you want to use this as a scum-tell against me, I really don't care.[ooc][color=black]patrickgower2006 (8:12:03 PM): all beer tastes same to me
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Yosarian2, as GC implied, I think the scenario for where you claimed Miller in the Marathon Day game that you linked to was certainly much more warranted than the scenario that we have here. If you really are town here, I think your claim is extremely sloppy and very poorly thought out, and I strongly suggest you shape up your play in a major way otherwise you almost certainly will get mislynched.
In what way do you believe the meta has shifted specifically? If you're telling the truth about being a miller, I personally think the more appropriate action would have been the one you suggested within the MD thread, so I'm curious as to why you feel otherwise.Post 228, Yosarian2 wrote:It worked in the marathon game, plus I believe the meta has shifted, to a point where a miller claiming miller is a much more viable option then it would have been in the 2006 meta, in the game I was talking about in that thread.
This seems plausible. I remember you mentioning something in MD about how you get mislynched more often now because of the scummy you received.Post 228, Yosarian2 wrote:Plus, I didn't have this horrible little "best manipulater" paranoia-inducing tag attached to my name back then, so I wasn't anywhere near as likely to draw random cop investigations as I am now.
As for your Ether-read:
Actually, shedidcomment on your Miller claim:
In fact, in the post where you actually went ahead and placed your vote on her, you acknowledged this and used it asPost 192 (bolded orange is my emphasis), Ether wrote:I'mmaunvote; vote: Yosarian2. Filtering his posts, there's just not a lot there.(I don't think Incognito is scum. The Patrick/Yosarian connection is too blatant for my tastes as well.)And I hate the claim.reasonto switch your vote to her:
And now in your most recent post, you use the fact thatPost 195 (bolded orange is again my emphasis), Yosarian2 wrote:Hmm. Surprising,Ether was the one person I didn't think would vote for me on a knee jerk reaction just because I'm a miller.
I guess Incog is right; she's probably scum; town Ether generally knows better then this.Vote:Ethershe didn't comment on your claimas one of the reasons to give her a 60% scum read? Which is it exactly: because she used your claim as part of her reason to vote you or because she didn't comment on it? Those two reasons are on completely opposite ends of the spectrum.
Separate post for other stuff as this one's getting long.[ooc][color=black]patrickgower2006 (8:12:03 PM): all beer tastes same to me
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skitzer:If you want actual replies to stuff, can you please format your posts differently? There's no way I'm going back to each of those posts to see what it is you're talking about just by you giving the post numbers. Unless of course, that's your intention in the first place...
OGML:My linking toonetown game where I handled a miller claim in a similar manner to here was enough for you to automatically write me off as town? Why?
camn, this would be the case with your average, run-of-the-mill scum player, sure. But GC is actually fairly competent as scum (see Mini 692 - Boost Mafia) and could almost certainly drop atom bombs on people even on Day 1. I'd be extremely careful with drinking this type of wine.Post 175, camn wrote:
GC was, and is, acting INCREDIBLY town. In my experience. . scum don't drop atom bombs on people day 1.skitzer wrote:camn in Post 112: This may sound weird, but I want to ask for a reason for your unvote. "You rule" just doesn't cut it for me.[ooc][color=black]patrickgower2006 (8:12:03 PM): all beer tastes same to me
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Catching up.
DizzyIzzy's 250 actually makes me feel even better about my vote. Her position on Yosarian2 seems extremely wishy-washy to me despite the fact that he's apparently "clearly ahead of anyone else in the suspect pool". Judging by her interpretation of his actions, I certainly wouldn't have been able to determine that she found him scummy from her post -- she seemed to lean town on him as she mentioned that she is "less likely to vote for him" since he's making sense. Her reasoning for suspecting Ether is terrible; I can't see how a person asking for a top three list from another person could be interpreted as "scum looking for consensus targets to bandwagon" when Ether has seemed to make it quite clear that she finds DizzyIzzy in particular scummy. Why would an Ether-scum ask for a top three fromsomeone who she considers scummyin order to obtain a "consensus target"? That makes absolutely no sense.
I'd also like to note that her top two suspects just so happen to be the two people who are receiving the most attention at this time, and I don't think you can genuinely find both Ether and Yosarian2 at the same level of scumminess with one another considering the fact that the two of them have seemed to take opposing positions on one another. I'd think you either support one or the other or support neither of the two. The whole post looks really contrived to me.
What is it about DizzyIzzy's 250 that you found toPost 251, Patrick wrote:Hm. That makes me feel better about your alignment.like? I find it extremely odd that you had absolutely no comment on her critique of top three's and her using that to suspect Ether when I know from personal experience playing with you that you often askyour owntop suspects to produce top three's in order to get a feel for where their suspicions lie and to see if their suspicions make sense and go in line with your own thinking. And you should definitely know that Ether has done this in past games as town as well. Explain please.
In response to your 260, the only time I've dealt with a claimed Miller who actually turned out to be a Miller was in Mini 635 - WOMAFIA. Lord Gurgi claimed Douchebag (Miller) in his opening post. Despite the fact that I had LG checked off as likely town for the remainder of the game, I found myself paranoid with him remaining alive closer and closer to end-game. I just think true Miller claims do more harm than good for the town since they allow scum to capitalize on the psychological WIFOM games that are inherent in townie paranoia. Perhaps I was a bit presumptuous when I said "if Yosarian2 was town I think he'd know better than this" since, now that I think about it and now that we've gotten answers from him, I do agree that claiming Miller as scum in the manner he did would probably be worse play for him as scum than as town, but I do hold by the belief that if he's telling the truth, his choice and the manner in which he claimed is terrible.
Scum slip or a hypothetical?Post 261, camn wrote:If I am scum, and I run up a townie[...]
I don't care for the top three Xdaamno <-> GC debate. It looks like a theory argument rather than something that can be used to gauge alignments. I will note however that even if Xdaamno dislikes top three's and prefers to state his suspicions in his posts using full reasoning, I still feel like I have absolutely no clue as to who he finds scummy at the moment, which does bother me.[ooc][color=black]patrickgower2006 (8:12:03 PM): all beer tastes same to me
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Yos2 & Patrick: Like I said above, I just think Miller claims bring about a lot of unnecessary townie paranoia. This is especially true considering the fact that the current meta with a lot of mods seems to instill a lot of Cop-hate anyway. WOMAFIA was a good example of this.[ooc][color=black]patrickgower2006 (8:12:03 PM): all beer tastes same to me
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Missed a part...
I just don't see what was wrong with Ether's vote. The post in general struck me as very town-ish (making it a point to mention that she can't even see you or me as scum with Yosarian2 the way OGML suggested while voting Yos2), and I really don't interpret it as scum being opportunistic the way other people have seemed to.Patrick wrote:A much better reason to suspect Ether is the post she made voting Yosarian, and I'm surprised that you don't seem bothered by that at all.
You feel really off to me, Patrick. Are you scum here?
OGML:
Answer, plz?Post 247, Incognito wrote:OGML:My linking toonetown game where I handled a miller claim in a similar manner to here was enough for you to automatically write me off as town? Why?[ooc][color=black]patrickgower2006 (8:12:03 PM): all beer tastes same to me
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Yes, I did. It made plenty of sense to me from a town perspective, especially if she genuinely thought Yosarian2 was scum due to the contradiction I pointed out from the MD thread. I'd like for her to defend herself though since that's not my territory to do so.Patrick wrote:You saw that post astownish? I don't see how making those observations would be less likely to come from scum, especially if Yos2 is town, which I think he is. That whole post seems like a pretty easy one for a scum to make, actually.
I don't see the difference between those two statements. My vote is on you right now but that doesn't necessarily mean I want you lynched right at this moment either. My vote is my indicator that I find your behavior suspicious and worthy of further attention. I assumed your top three meant similar, otherwise I can't see why you'd even produce one in the first place even if someone asked you to provide one. You'd just say "nobody's really suspicious enough to me at this time for me to be able to produce a top three".Post 287, DizzyIzzyB13 wrote:Your problem is that you're looking at it from the persopective that "Izzy suspects these people" not "Izzy finds these people the most suspicious". There's a difference. I don't support the lynch either of them right now. Just because they're the most suspicious people in the game, doesn't mean I necessarily think they're scum. I don't particularly believe anyone is supicious enough to be worth a vote yet. That should tell you enough to go on.
You say "they're the most suspicious people in the game"... are you saying this from your own perspective or the town collective's perspective?
So do you think Ether hasn't formed solid opinions of the game yet? Also, do you honestly think a hypo-Ether-scum could logically demand a top three from a hypo-you-town, a person she "suspects", and then once she receives that top three, automatically use your top three to drive her own "suspicions"?Post 287, DizzyIzzyB13 wrote:Silly, arbitrary and generally unhelpful except maybe to scum who are looking for something like I poosted from a person who has yet to form solid opinions of the game.
Can you also link to a recently completed game where you've been town? I can't seem to find any.[ooc][color=black]patrickgower2006 (8:12:03 PM): all beer tastes same to me
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I had like five other questions in my 288 that Izzy pretty much ignored. Nice.
I noted this too, and he's been pretty consistent with his "ignorance" all game. Despite what he said, I really do get the feeling that he's not reading the thread, which is awful no matter his alignment. I'll need to do a meta-read of him to see if his self-described "always being lynched for looking scummy as town" matches up with his play here.Green Crayons wrote:X ignoring the last bit of Incog's 279 does not surprise me.
camn:
I took this out of context, but I did want a response about this. It reminded me very closely of something you did in a previous game where you were scum.Post 279, Incognito wrote:
Scum slip or a hypothetical?Post 261, camn wrote:If I am scum, and I run up a townie[...]
Yos2's find on OGML is pretty good. I definitely second the call for a response from him on why his reaction to claimed Millers differs so drastically between the two games. I'm also not crazy about the fact that he's once again ignored my question about why he checked me off as town so quickly after I linked to only one previous game where I was town.
And we need a shitload of posts from a lot of people.Korts, skitzer, charter, Ether:let's pick up the pace here.[ooc][color=black]patrickgower2006 (8:12:03 PM): all beer tastes same to me
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DizzyIzzy's last few posts have been solid. I'm beginning to feel much better about her alignment actually lol. I'm beginning to think that this style of play of her's is more a function of her playstyle rather than scummy behavior. I also looked through some of her recently completed games as scum, and I noticed slight differences in them when compared to here. That saidunvote.
Looking at Korts's posting history shows that he's actively posting elsewhere on the forums and isn't doing anything here. I've noticed a few people mention his name, and I mentioned having issues with him also so I think avote: Kortsis certainly warranted.
I did some digging through Xdaamno's recently completed games and noticed some interesting things there too. I'll try and make a post about it hopefully sometime tomorrow or on Monday while commenting on some of the more recent stuff too. It's my mom's birthday today and Easter tomorrow so I might be a bit busy.[ooc][color=black]patrickgower2006 (8:12:03 PM): all beer tastes same to me
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Xdaamno: I did indeed feel like your playstyle was very different. How did you determine that I would feel that way before I ever even said anything about it?[ooc][color=black]patrickgower2006 (8:12:03 PM): all beer tastes same to me
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Well, the only recently completed games I found of yours were town games really. I only found one recently completed game where you were scum but you replaced into that one really late. So if you're town in this particular game and you recognize that I'll find a very different playstyle here when compared to your past games that would mean you've made a conscious effort to change your pro-town play for whatever reason you've decided to. Or you could just be scum here and could be pre-emptively trying to shout that your playstyle changed since you yourself realize that your play as town and as scum is so dissimilar. That's why I asked.
OGML: I'm not ignoring your post -- I'll have comments about it by Monday.[ooc][color=black]patrickgower2006 (8:12:03 PM): all beer tastes same to me
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I try not to factor in Marathon-style play since I think it's dissimilar from the play required in regular games.[ooc][color=black]patrickgower2006 (8:12:03 PM): all beer tastes same to me
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OGML, you're right, I didn't comment on it, but I never used it as a point against you either. I basically just ignored it as one of the points in his case since again, I don't think it's valid. I remember Yosarian2 did the same thing where he compared my play in SPQR and dahill1's play in SPQR to our play in the meets we went to too, and...... well we both know how SPQR ended lol. So I'd say Yosarian2 trying to compare your play here to your RL play is either a null-tell or a slight town-tell and not worthy of commenting on. If other people began to use that point against you, I'd have brought it up. As it stands, it was only Yos2 who did.[ooc][color=black]patrickgower2006 (8:12:03 PM): all beer tastes same to me
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Three-part post coming up.
(Part 1 of 3 - Response to OGML's super-massive post)
I do admit that Yos2's 225 did bother me a bit. I can certainly see where OGML is coming from when he says it seems like Yos2 was appealing to my authority since, if he was attempting to push a case on someone (in this case Ether) as town, I'd expect him to addresseveryone in the gameas to why he believes Ether is scum citing meta-examples or what-have-you that support his ideas for why he believes Ether's play differs here from her typical town play. Instead, he decided to focus on garneringmyopinions on Ether and didn't seem entirely concerned with addressing anyone else with his Ether-case. It was also interesting that at the time of his post, I think I made it fairly clear that I was leaning against Yos2's claim, so his bringing up of Ether's meta and attempting to get my opinions on it could have been Yos's way of redirecting my attention onto someone other than him.
I don't think so. I'm leaning towards believing the claim at this point. I'm not crazy about Yos2's play so far, but I'm leaning towards believing that Yos2's opinions on millers have changed since he made the post in MD and that maybe he's telling the truth here and is indeed a miller.Post 323, OhGodMyLife wrote:Does it change your opinions on anything going on?
Part 2 is next...[ooc][color=black]patrickgower2006 (8:12:03 PM): all beer tastes same to me
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(Part 2 of 3 - Xdaamno's (town) meta)
I mainly looked through two recently completed games of Xdaamno's to get a general feel of what he plays like as town. I couldn't find any recently completed scum games of his outside of the games he played during Marathon Day and one where he replaced in really late.
- I don't think you need to look through too much of this game to notice the differences between his style of play here and there. In 725, he seemed much more assertive, more aggressive, he actively scum-hunted, and seemed to address all or most of the concerns that came up towards him. In our voll-mod game here, I think the difference is quite dramatic: the only thing I really know about Xdaamno is that he thinks GC is town, he thought Patrick was scummy but then he thought he was town-ish, and... that's about it.
- This was the other game I looked into where he was town and was D1 lynched as town. Interestingly, I think his play in this particular game matches much more closely with the type of play we've been seeing here. He seemed more "on the sidelines" and distanced from everything and less likely to pay attention to what was going on or address points that were made against him.
Conclusions? Meh, it seems like there's two different Xdaamno's out there: One where he actually seems fairly competent and the other where he seems completely clueless and scummy.
In Mini 725, I certainly received a completely different feeling about your play than you led on in this quote. In fact, in that game you were NK-ed during Night 2. You mentioned a few posts back that you know that your playstyle has changed. Did you make a conscious effort to change your style of play into one that appears more scummy/non-contributive? Why did you seem to exhibit two completely different styles of play in these two games when they appeared to be running at the same time and where, in each case, you were aligned on the side of the town?Post 87, Xdaamno wrote:I suppose you mean me?
I try not to post unless I have something useful to be doing, because it's actually an effort for me to not look scummy. I get lynched all the time.[ooc][color=black]patrickgower2006 (8:12:03 PM): all beer tastes same to me
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(Part 3 of 3 - Catching up to the recent)
Who specifically do you think might be an opportunistic scumbag?Post 394, Green Crayons wrote:However, I still only see town vibes coming from her, so I don't understand all of the Dizzy hate except that it might be coming from opportunistic scumbags.
Dizzy-hate equated to me, Ether, and charter for the most part and you recently labeled me as "obvtown", Ether you had down as "leaning town", so I'm assuming that leaves charter?
No.Post 386, Korts wrote:Incog, nice way to avoid realposting. Please answer my questions.
I'm curious as to why you wantmespecifically to respond to your questions when you previously mentioned that you were receiving a scummy vibe off of me. Now you want me to bring forth the pointsIfind notable? Why would you trust the opinion of someone you consider scummy? I don't think you're being sincere here, and I think you're beginning to look a lot like lazy scum.
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DizzyIzzy, since you don't seem to believe in pressure votes and the like, I'm assuming you'd be willing to carry your Korts-vote to a lynch? Correct me if I'm wrong.
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I'm still waiting on these "issues" that both Korts and skitzer supposedly had about my play. Or does it take the both of you this long to manufacture suspicion?[ooc][color=black]patrickgower2006 (8:12:03 PM): all beer tastes same to me
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@skitzer:Your statement that "lurky doesn't always necessarily mean scummy" would be correct if the person in question was generally known to have a lurky playstyle regardless of his or her alignment. I have never played in a game with Korts before but as far as I know, I wouldn't consider Korts to be a generally lurky type of player regardless of his alignment. If this was MafiaSSK or killa seven then yeah, I might wanna probe a little deeper but with Korts I'd expect more than this.
Korts has pretty much confirmed this by mentioning that he takes pride in remaining active.
Post 413, skitzer wrote:Incognito: It's been so long, I don't remember any issues about you from me other than your opinion on Izzy.
So then whoskitzer, in your 2nd post, (bolded blue is my emphasis) wrote:For suspicions, Incognito's attack of Dizzy which started the whole case is probablymy biggest suspicion.doyou find scummy? Also, what do you think of Korts's and charter's votes on DizzyIzzy?
Because I wasn't the only one to not answer your questions but yet I was the only one who you called out about it. Also, you even went so far as to say I was "avoiding realposting" which is a blatant misrep and exaggeration considering the fact that I've been "realposting" through the entirety of the game. Your comment here:Post 415, Korts wrote:I have madetwoposts in short succession saying that I wanted these questions answered by everyone--what makes you think I only want you to do so?
...leads me to believe you yourself recognize this and were just tossing dirt on me for your own convenience.Post 415, Korts wrote:A question: why is Incog considered so pro-town? Is it a build-up of a constant series of helpful scumhunting posts?
P.S. If you're so far behind in your reading, why do you feel so comfortable placing your vote on DizzyIzzy? Wouldn't you want to catch up first and then decide where to place your vote after gathering more information about the players and the game in general instead of being so reactionary?
@Patrick:Those positive charter-vibes are going downhill. His initial play didn't seem too dissimilar from SPQR to me, but his more recent play has been more bothersome.
@Xdaamno:I never said anything about you replacing out anywhere...[ooc][color=black]patrickgower2006 (8:12:03 PM): all beer tastes same to me
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I find it strange that Xdaamno is here looking for scum-tells but keeps questioning the dude he thinks is town.[ooc][color=black]patrickgower2006 (8:12:03 PM): all beer tastes same to me
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GC:I realize that I've been making comments about Xdaamno implying that I find him scummy, but I haven't been switching my vote to him and therefore haven't been putting my money where my mouth is. I've just largely been biting my tongue on him because I keep getting this nagging feeling that if he ends up being lynched today, he's gonna somehow flip town. His play in the second game I linked to just gives me that feeling. If I had a scum game to compare to, I'd feel much better about my read of him.
Having said that, I should note that I probably wouldn't be completely averse to his lynch if the consensus believes he should be today's lynch. Right now, Korts is looking much scummier to me though.
camn:Why would scum be more likely to soft-claim than town?
I don't know her reasons for this, but I know my reasons were because your absence seemed more like a site-wide thing at first as your posting rate seemed to be slowing across the board. Then when I checked your posting history again and then began noticing you online more, I felt like you were just strategically lurking in this particular game, and I followed suit with a vote.Post 460, Korts wrote:I feel comfortable because and her push on my wagon, by analysis of her reasoning, seems more policy-based than anything--why didn't she vote me while I wasn't posting?
By reactionary, I was implying that to me your vote looked more OMGUS-driven rather than me getting the feeling that you genuinely felt like she was scummy. The fact that you kept andPost 460, Korts wrote:And I am reactionary by nature, it is a good way for me to scumhunt--unless I misunderstand the meaning of the word?keepimplying that you're behind on so many pages, you seemed to imply that reactions to Yosarian2's claim might be helpful to discern alignments, but then you didn't go out and try to read up on those reactions or the many pages you missed but instead decided to place your vote on DizzyIzzy gives me the feeling that you're being insincere about what you've been stating in the thread. Unless, of course, you feel like DizzyIzzy's reaction to Yosarian2's claim was the scummiest. Feel free to let me know if that's the case.
So are you, dear. So are you.Post 454, Ether wrote:
He's town.Post 452, Xdaamno wrote:I'll look up your meta tommorow, going to bed now.[ooc][color=black]patrickgower2006 (8:12:03 PM): all beer tastes same to me
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camn, eh, I have to say I disagree. I don't think a scum necessarily wants to be seen as a PR -- a scum just wants to be seen as town in general or just fly under the radar if possible. Soft-claiming (especially when the person is under little to no pressure) tends to do the opposite of that by bringing the person into the spotlight.
A scum is a scum is a scum no matter the day, yes. I was just trying to emphasize the point that I think a Korts-lynch is more likely to hit scum than an Xdaamno-lynch.Green Crayons wrote:
But if we lynch him tomorrow he will turn up scum?Incog wrote:I've just largely been biting my tongue on him because I keep getting this nagging feeling that if he ends up being lynched today, he's gonna somehow flip town.[ooc][color=black]patrickgower2006 (8:12:03 PM): all beer tastes same to me
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Xdaamno's self-vote makes me feel even more than ever that he's likely town. I dosupport this wagon.not[ooc][color=black]patrickgower2006 (8:12:03 PM): all beer tastes same to me
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camn, I've always looked at self-voting closer to L-1 as a town-tell. To me, it indicates a sign of frustration, and Igenerallyview frustration as a town-tell as well. I mainly apply this "self-voting closer to L-1" rule of thumb to Newbie players in particular but with Xdaamno's playstyle, I could certainly see myself applying it to him also.
I think self-hammeringis generally an action that I'd think is more likely to come from scum players than town players but in my experience, I can't recall a single instance where a player who self-voted closer to L-1 happened to be a scum player. You're completely welcome to provide me with examples that display otherwise. I just think that the self-vote coupled with the info I found when looking up Xdaamno's past games leads me to believe that Xdaamno is likely town here.[ooc][color=black]patrickgower2006 (8:12:03 PM): all beer tastes same to me
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Well then I'd feel really bad for poor alphachick, poor Iceforge, poor lordofthelefthand, poor Xtoxm (sorry Xtoxm x_x), poor krazyness, and even poor Incognito (yeah, I was still learning the ropes to this game, heh) if we ever ended up in a game with Seol. We'd have all been toast, and we'd have all been dead, decaying townies.Post 516, Green Crayons wrote:I disagree. I looked up previous discussion on self-voting (to see general MS thoughts on the matter) and I think this is an obvious emotional ploy, per Seol: "...the appeal to emotion self-vote which should always, always lead to lynch (ie, the correct approach to an appeal to emotion is to deny)." The fact that he's acting super wounded that I'm calling him scum (which, as a defense, makes absolutely no sense) coupled with the self-vote, he looks like a scumbag trying out a pity plea.
Post 516, Green Crayons wrote:An incredibly recent game comes to mind about a scumbag showing really awesome frustration that looked really town and convinced the town to not lynch the guy because, in part, he was town-looking with that frustration. Being frustrated isn't a town tell by any stretch of the imagination.
If you're talking about the game I telepathically,psychicallypredict you're talking about, I'd love to make comment here but...
@Xdaamno:no matter what happens, I think you owe it to everyone to produce that long analysis you mentioned above. A number of us have been asking forsomethingof that sort for quite some time now.[ooc][color=black]patrickgower2006 (8:12:03 PM): all beer tastes same to me
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Korts, your self-vote was a completely different situation. You placed yourself at L-1 on page 1 and had absolutely nothing to be frustrated or emotional about -- like you said, it was a gambit. Comparing that self-vote to one that is more "appeal to emotion"-al is like comparing Bentley's to Daewoo's.[ooc][color=black]patrickgower2006 (8:12:03 PM): all beer tastes same to me
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Errrr... my intention there should be clear: I believe a Korts-lynch is more likely to hit scum than an Xdaamno-lynch, but IPost 539, charter wrote:
FOS. Seems like you're trying to encourage Xdaamos lynch without getting your hands dirty.Incog wrote:Having said that, I should note that I probably wouldn't be completely averse to his lynch if the consensus believes he should be today's lynch. Right now, Korts is looking much scummier to me though.believedthat Xdaamno had been behaving in such a way that I could have easily seen myself lending my vote to his wagon if people preferred his lynch instead. Given the new information that I received from Xdaamno's self-vote though, I've obviously revised this position and wouldn't support his lynch today at all, but I can't see how you could interpret that as me lending support to his lynch without getting my hands dirty -- I'd have placed my vote on his wagon, and I've been busy questioning him about a lot of his actions all day, which means that if he were lynched and did happen to flip town, I'd be at blame just like anyone else who might have ended up on his wagon.
Further, the only way I could possibly get "my hands dirty" is if Xdaamno is indeed town. Do youknowhim to be town here?
"When" Xdaamno flips town? Don't you mean "if"? You're making it seem like it wasPost 539, charter wrote:
FOS. If him self voting enforces your belief that he is town, then I think you must be scum trying to gain town cred when Xdaamo flips town. There's absolutely no reason why a self vote should get you town cred. I think I've just convinced myself I think it more likely that Xdaamo is trying to gain sympathy.Incog wrote:Xdaamno's self-vote makes me feel even more than ever that he's likely town. I do not support this wagon.justthe self-vote that made me think he was more likely to be town. I had also already mentioned that I thought his play was similar to one of the past town games I looked into.
Also, did you even look at those previous self-voting games I've linked to? I've taken this exact same position in multiple games where I've been town and have found it to be a fairly successful town-tell. I don't think his frustration looks manufactured, Idothink his frustration looks genuine and townish, and so I don't want to lynch him today. Do you think my reasoning for thinking him town looks contrived?
Sorry, but I'm obvtown.Post 539, charter wrote:I add Incog to my list of Dizzy and Yos to give you the scumteam.
I'm counting at least 6 people who seem willing to lynch him (OGML, you, Patrick, Yosarian2 seemed to voice some recent concern, camn probably would, and I'd be completely willing to lynch him too especially after this last post of his).Post 543, Ether wrote:Charter's on, like...everyone'speripherals. It's creepy.[ooc][color=black]patrickgower2006 (8:12:03 PM): all beer tastes same to me
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I'm down with this.
unvote
vote: charter
Hey, charter: while you're at it, do you wanna explain why you said the following in one game where you were town:
...but have now decided to give me flak for it here?SPQR's [url=https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=1409569#1409569]charter[/url] wrote:I think Xtoxm is town, I don't like Yos or dahill's votes for him either. I'd vote for dahill again if I could.
I don't understand why everyone always blows up when someone self-votes. I don't even remember the last time I saw scum do it when it wasn't a hammer to end the day short.[ooc][color=black]patrickgower2006 (8:12:03 PM): all beer tastes same to me
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charter, I'm not going to get into a typing contest with you. The point is if you previously held a certain belief as town that you "don't even remember the last time you saw scum do it when it wasn't a hammer to end the day short" then youshouldtechnically see where I'm coming from and should NOT use that as reason to be suspicious of me. You gave me two FoS's, placed me into your top three, and have now come out on a full-on assault trying to attack me since I still believe in something that youyourselfbelieved in as town at least at one point during your Mafia-playing days. The MOST I'd expect you to do with me is maybe a hand-slap or to point out an example of a time where the same logic I used to derive my town feelings for Xdaamno might have proved wrong since you saw something different in your own experience but you didn't do that -- instead you used that as reason to bring me into your top three when you previously had absolutely NO suspicions of me! The fact that you used that as reason to be suspicious of me AND went so far as to accuse me of being scum who is trying to gain town cred when you previously held those same EXACT beliefs at one point or another just proves that your case is phony.[ooc][color=black]patrickgower2006 (8:12:03 PM): all beer tastes same to me
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Any breadcrumbs, charter?
=======================
Page 24 Votecount
camn (0/7):
charter (5/7): OhGodMyLife, Patrick, Incognito, Korts, Yosarian2
DizzyIzzyB13 (1/7): charter
Ether (0/7):
Green Crayons (0/7):
Incognito (0/7):
Korts (2/7): DizzyIzzyB13, Ether
OhGodMyLife (0/7):
Patrick (1/7): Xdaamno
skitzer (0/7):
Xdaamno (2/7): Green Crayons, camn,
Yosarian2 (0/7):
Not voting (3/12):
skitzer,
With 12 alive, it's 7 to lynch.
Countdown To Deadline
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I think it's unlikely that charter is a cult recruiter -- vollkan's opening flavor seems to suggest that this set-up might be purely Mafia vs. Town:
I know the last time I was in a[url=https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=1580505#1580505]vollkan[/url] (bolded is my emphasis) wrote:Welcome to the town of Ludd, population 12. Ludd was formed in the 1960s by a small group of countercultural environmentalists and has since blossomed into a peaceful, if somewhat smelly, hippy commune. Recent reports suggest, however,that the mafiahave set their sights upon Ludd, as an inconspicious base for future operations.
Unfortunately for the residents of Ludd, Earth Week has just begun. Showing their superior level of commitment to the empty symbolism of Earth Hour, the Luddites have decided that for the remainder of the following week (or longer if they so desire) they will stay together in a single room using absolutely no electricity. Many dark nights are ahead...the mafiaare getting excited.voll-mod Mini Normal, his flavor also seemed to suggest that the game would be purely Mafia vs. Town, and the game pretty much ended up playing out that way as well.
It'd be awesome if vollkan could answer charter's question since it might provide a bit more clarity about charter's claimed role, though I'm doubting he will.
@Xdaamno:I, too, would like further clarification about your "read" of me since I, like Patrick, don't think what you've mentioned makes much sense. It seems to make more sense if you say "there's probably nomafiaplayers under suspicion right now". Further, why are you only pulling out two quotes that I made recently to use for your read of me? Wouldn't general vibes throughout the thread or overall behavior be more useful to determine an alignment?[ooc][color=black]patrickgower2006 (8:12:03 PM): all beer tastes same to me
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Thunderstorms in my area keep cutting off my 'net, so I can't really say much at this time.
I, too, would like to know how we can easily see if Korts is telling the truth like charter mentioned.
Yosarian2, why would a scum be unlikely to fake the role of Bodyguard?[ooc][color=black]patrickgower2006 (8:12:03 PM): all beer tastes same to me
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Is it bad that I don't particularly feel inclined to remove my vote even in the absence of a counterclaim? You've got a scummy-acting person in Korts who was pushed to a claim by three people who seem town-ish (DizzyIzzy less so but that's besides the point, Patrick's been looking much better lately) and one person who I know is town (me), and he comes forward and claims a protective role. If that doesn't smell like scum fake-claiming, then I don't know what does.
No, I think she's town.Post 672, Ether wrote:Hmm. Incognito, is Camn scum?[ooc][color=black]patrickgower2006 (8:12:03 PM): all beer tastes same to me
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vollkan wrote:13: Each day will have an automatic deadline of three (3) weeks. Undernocircumstances will I extend the deadline.At deadline, the player with the most votes will be lynched. In the case of a tie, whichever of the tied players received the LAST vote shall be the lynchee.unvote
vote: xdaamno
unfortunately[ooc][color=black]patrickgower2006 (8:12:03 PM): all beer tastes same to me
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skitzer, do you typically go whole days without voting anyone?[ooc][color=black]patrickgower2006 (8:12:03 PM): all beer tastes same to me
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