Mini 1652: Sweet Dreams - Game Over!

[West9]

VOTE: JohnnyFarrar

Man, how isolated do you guys keep your newbies where they get flabbergasted by the idea of a closed setup?

[West9]

I have a role claim to make: I'm a time travelling cop. My role allows me to receive the PM response to my investigation before I even ask it. Turns out I already got my Night 1 PM response, and apparently I had asked whether or not pisskip was scum. And the answer was that he is.

By the way, that was a joke

keep your day job

and in this game there's a user called West. Fuck West.

Ah yeah, I forgot about him/am not used to the user names in this game yet. Why the animosity?

johnny i demand an answer to this

VOTE: bji
Don't like how the pisskop vote was snuck in there behind Victor's vote, and then surrounded by questions and joke-talk/clarificaitons

[West9]

VOTE: bji
Don't like how the pisskop vote was snuck in there behind Victor's vote, and then surrounded by questions and joke-talk/clarificaitons

Can you explain the mechanics of "sneaking" votes in on a forum where every vote is plain to see and additionally posted in every vote count?

Can you explain why I would use the much more obvious reverse video font for my vote tag when I could use the much easier to miss bold font for my vote tag, if my goal was to "sneak" a vote in?

Can you explain why I would go through the trouble to also put a big reverse video announce of my unvote also (which I do every time I vote just so it's clear whom I am unvoting at the same time), if I wanted to "sneak" my vote in?

Your accusation makes literally zero sense. Is this weak push really the best you could come up with?

i'm not saying that you tried to, like, camouflage a vote into a post. The timing of your pisskop vote felt like you were trying to use the momentum from Victor's vote to cast suspicion on him for questioning you. The whole thing read to me as opportunistic - which probably would have been a better word to use than "sneaky," but still.
wtf was with the time gap between my vote and your reaction to it?

i hate to do this whole "only addressing the thing about me" thing and then go, but it's 2am and i'm tired and i want to watch the new aziz special so goodnight.

[West9]

Pfffft. I know West from a few other sites, he's a friend of mine.

LIES. ALL LIES.

Eh I guess I ended up responding to the bulk of that post without really meaning too.

I know, it hurts your attempt at discrediting me because I'm a newbie, to take my post seriously enough to respond to it, right?

the problem with 208 is that when pacman said "today" he meant "before this day is done" and you just straight up did not understand that.
Bji, your newbieness is honestly throwing me off super hard at this point. I still don't like your pisskop vote, and I hate that you were trying to imply scum motivation in something as banal as pisskop changing his avatar, but I'm gonna take a break from you for a while.

VOTE: Silverwolf
I'm reading pisskop as town, and 96 is exactly how I imagine scum reacting to an early quickwagon on town.

P-EDIT: Cheet's too cool to modkill people, i think

Are you sure?~

[West9]

P-EDIT: Cheet's too cool to modkill people, i think

Are you sure?~

oh right i forgot, cheet's not cool at all and is actually the worst.

[West9]

cheet, my vote on the count is wrong

[West9]

got game links you'd be willing to share?

[West9]

no prob

[West9]

got game links you'd be willing to share?

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=84&t=59720

Post 118 in that game I voted for the person putting a player to L-1.

ech. This looks alright. I guess my vote was a bit too playstyle-y. UNVOTE:

the problem with 208 is that when pacman said "today" he meant "before this day is done" and you just straight up did not understand that.

That's not really relevant, I don't think. He's making a claim that if Nickname were at L-1, he'd hammer him. That's basically what he's saying. That's a stronger statement than any one vote, and his claim that town is "vote happy" when he's "lynch happy" seems inconsistent.

This is wrong, right? *looks back at post* yeah, this is totally wrong.

My pisskop vote started as pressure. Pisskop has responded to that in a way that only solidified my resolve on the vote. If he had responded less defensively, I would have unvoted him. What's to not like about that?

The timing of the wagon jump was opportunistic. I think I said this already?

I'm liking JohnnyFarrar less and less every day. He seems to like to stir things up but doesn't look to be working in any coherent direction or really trying to scum hunt with any sense of urgency. That's just how it looks right now.

How come this is okay when you do it but it's not okay when Johnny does it?

I would vote bji, but this wagon has merit and seems like it'll be really fun to analyze tomorrow. VOTE: Nickname

[West9]

Given that I agree with Dooku that scum are probably lurking and taking advantage of the pisskop/Aero fight to allow a favorable scum outcome to develop, I'll park my vote on my least favorite lurker for the moment.

UNVOTE: pisskop
VOTE: West9

"He's probably going to do something scummy in the future, so i'll vote for him now."

[West9]

pfffffhahahahahaha of course its ari

[West9]

Also, why beat up on a player (Nickname) who isn't even playing right now? I'd like to hear a good summary of the case on Nickname that has everyone voting him when he's not even here to defend himself.

The L-1 PK vote was scummy and the reactions to people saying that they have suspicion on him are great.

If we lynch Nickname and if he flips town, I am pretty sure that at least one of West and Brain is scum. They followed my vote too quickly.

Your logic is impeccable.

I still haven't read post 381. Every time I look at it I get dizzy. I'll be back later with thoughts or a medical bill.

Still too cool for school, I see.

too be fair, johnny is entirely too cool for school.

So SilverWolf pointed you to some meta that gives evidence for a position that could easily be faked knowing that the meta will support it. And you just accept it. That seems really bad to me.

So, you think that Silverwolf is scum, then?

@bji saying that evilpacman said that he "would hammer Nickname if Nickname were at L-1" is incorrect. My previous post conveyed this. I would explain why but it's nothing more than "that's not what he said" so it would honestly be easier for you to just to read pacman's 208 again.

Also, talk about why your vote on me isn't just what I said it was in 387

[West9]

Secondarily, it's because you seem like a <redacted> and I don't like you.

This is really rude. I have responses to the rest of your stuff drafted, but I'm going to wait a while so that you can calm down.

[West9]

@bji
Oh, okay, this whole Silverwolf thing is about your views on meta.
I think in that instance, viewing meta as evidence was okay. I understand that you think that all meta is invalid or whatever, but you have to understand that not agreeing with you on that point doesn't indicate scumminess.

regarding 208, your line of reasoning goes like this:
1) Evilpacman would be fine with a Nickname lynch.
2) Evilpacman wants Nickname to be dead right now.
3) Evilpacman would hammer Nickname if he had the chance.

The link between 1 and 2 is what is wrong with your logic.

At the time I put my vote on you it was primarily because I felt like your degree of participation was just enough to seem active without really doing anything, which made you a satisfactory place to put my vote since I am becoming suspicious of anyone with a certain degree of nonparticipation in this game given Dooku's arguments which I think make sense.

Yeah, but the Dooku arguments were based on the idea that scum would do a specific thing. You said "West will probably do that specific thing" and then voted for me.

I would vote bji, but this wagon has merit and seems like it'll be really fun to analyze tomorrow. VOTE: Nickname

Gross. You saw he was replacing out, right?

At the time I made that vote, no. I'm fine with my vote being on Ari, though. I'm doubtful that we're going to get a wagon that'll be as fun to analyze.

[West9]

Is that why you're voting him?

Yep, pretty much. I do think there's a decent chance that he's scum, but I also think that we get some interesting stuff to look at regardless of the outcome of the flip, which I view as ideal for a D1 lynch. The Pisskop wagon, the weird votes the wagon has gotten, the statements of suspicion (accompanied by no votes) that Nickname got, the direct defenses from some people - there's a lot here already.

Ari, from what I can tell, most of your reads are based on the wagon that's on you? Would you call that a correct statement? Also I think I answered most of your questions with the response to Johnny above.

440 is helpful.

Oh hey Gliffie.

@West

: Talk about Johnny some.

Johnny's opinions on BJI's newbiness has made me reconsider, or at least think harder about, BJI-scum. Trying to act all voice-of-reason-y is in line with what I usually consider to be townJohnny, so that's where I'm at with him right now.

[West9]

@West
Yes, I would agree that my post focused on the votes and voters who targeted myself/Nickname. I replaced into a spot at L-2 and felt that was the best place to start.
I am not trying to hide this in my post at all.
What do you gain from this?

Wasn't trying to imply that you were being deceptive. Just wanted to know what you reads are outside of that wagon. I asked the first question in case i missed something in your first post

[West9]

I got prodded. Sorry bout that. I'm here now.

Heyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy Inactivity. Everybody tell me why their vote is better than P Brain

I think my 469 does this. What's your case on P-Brain again? Were 440 & 457 the "scummy things" you were waiting for?

[West9]

Ari Wagon is good wagon.
. But where is the alternative? Not the counter wagon, the other scum who's wagoned.

confused about what this means.

[West9]

@Johnny

and

West

, could you please help me out with Ari meta (appeasy and whatnot)?)

"appeasy" sound Ari-like, yeah. Johnny should answer this question too though because my understand of Ari's meta isn't always the best.

[West9]

@Dooku
I think your push was scummy. Johnny agreed with me, btw, that the vote due to subbing was shitty. I'm not the only one.

I don't think it's smart or fun to try and get alignment clues from a person's decision to replace out. I don't see how it's scummy.

I have failed horribly, several times already, it's in the thread history. I pushed on pisskop, and on evilpacman18, and perhaps most ludicrously of all, on West9.

How are you calculating failure? And I wasn't under the impression that you view your push on me to be ludicrous?

Prolapsed Brain is looking like they might be a lynch candidate and I'd go along with that.

You still having these doubts?:

I would like to vote for [Prolapsed Brain] but I don't want to just OMGUS vote, and I don't feel like just not liking his play is necessarily a good scum case against him.

West...Lots of dealings with bji, which are not very interesting.

My bji interactions had to have been more interesting than your last few posts. What are you trying to get out of this?

[West9]

also, people should feel free to just call me West. West9 was my father's name.

[West9]

prod dodge. Reading up.

[West9]

Silverwolf/bji: eh. this isn't really fun to read. I need a reader's digest version of 632. bji's cluelessness and Silverwolf's exaggeration seem real. That tells me little about alignment.

At face value, I super don't feel comfortable following VDA, PBrain, and bji into this wagon, so we should kill Ari instead.

There has been some hypocrisy with people telling me that being anti-town is not the same thing has being scummy, and yet using basically that same reasoning themslves (Ari for example recently basically said that we should lynch Prolapsed Brain if he continues to be so anti-town).

anti-town is not the same as scummy. Ari is using this reasoning because he doesn't want to die and he thinks he can get people behind a PBrain vote. Kinda like he did with the whole "Dooku voting for Ari after Nickname replaced out" thing.

[West9]

I need a reader's digest version of 632.

It should take you less than 10 minutes to read. This is a FORUM game where READING is a prerequisite. I never understand when people complain about having to read in a game that is all about reading.

we have three days left. cut the fat and give me the core points.

Do you have reasons other than slandering players for not wanting to vote SilverWolf?

??

anti-town is not the same as scummy. Ari is using this reasoning because he doesn't want to die and he thinks he can get people behind a PBrain vote. Kinda like he did with the whole "Dooku voting for Ari after Nickname replaced out" thing.

Should Ari want to die?

He made the vote in hopes of creating a counterwagon to himself. It's not "you shouldn't kill be because Prolapsed Brain is scum" it's "you should kill Prolapsed Brain because Prolapsed Brain isn't me."

[West9]

EBWOP

He made the vote in hopes of creating a counterwagon to himself. It's not "you shouldn't kill

me

because Prolapsed Brain is scum" it's "you should kill Prolapsed Brain because Prolapsed Brain isn't me."

[West9]

ugh. I liked this wagon, too. UNVOTE:

789 is kind of a compelling point.

I agree that SW looked genuine but the fact that she replaced means to me that the exasperation was alignment-neutral

I will not lynch the SW/Titus slot.

To make it clear I didn't say that I didn't want to lynch her, because you may be scum.

mmhmmm

Is that a reak mmhmm because you understood me, or a sarcastic mmhmm, because you don't believe me?

How is pisskop's post here even remotely unclear.

West9
...whereas the above have done so but are not participating in a meaningful way in this game, and have all done nothing lately. Probably I'm going to be told that I am naive/unfair, but I think people who have demonstrated that they have a thought process but choose not to use it are better lynch candidates that Prolapsed Brain.

Bitch, calm down. I got finals. Also welcome back to the game.

For the record, I've been neighborized by scum and I've been a scum neighborizer. Scum neighborizer isn't that outlandish. Would confirming the role make Ari more or less confirmed town for you, pisskop? I don't think it will. Ari lynch is still the best option, so my vote stays.

Ari, how many shots do you have?

http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/vXXP2L36YPX. This is the game where I was scum neighborizer. I don't think Cheetory knows about the other one.

funtimes

[West9]

yeah. It makes more sense to say that its compelling evidence towards pisskops other points about titus.

[West9]

Not feeling the lurker quickwagons. Willing to follow pisskop into this. VOTE: Titus

My count says that's L-2

@Ari
@Dooku
In 872 I asked you guys questions that you have yet to respond to.

If you had to choose between lynching a troll like Pea Brain or a lurker who can play but doesn't, which would you choose?

If I had to choose? Probably lurker. Would depend on situation.
But I don't have to choose between those two, soooo what is the purpose of this question?

Yeah. That's what I thinknow Ari but that scum!kop could have been hiding behind "joke" because if someone says joke they get away with scummy shit.

nahhhh he's not hiding anything scummy behind the joke. The post after the joke claim says "I shouldn't joke around like that."

I've never lynched a lurker before. I think now is a good time to do it.

Why now? For Tjoe or PB?

[West9]

I am going to bet the game on SilverWolf's character. She cannot be scum because to be scum and replace out in that way would be unethical. SilverWolf is not unethical. Therefore she is not scum

I'd argue against this. Her frustration reads to me as alignment neutral, as did her replacement. It is possible for scum to actually get frustrated enough to want to replace out. ScumSW wanting out doesn't depend on her being unethical at all.

And I don't think that I've been contributing at an unreasonably or uncharacteristically low level.

[West9]

When I say that her frustration seemed alignment-neutral, I mean that she seemed frustrated with tone more than anything else.
Honestly, the more we talk about this, the more it seems like it's a difference in opinion about playstyle between us that is unlikely to be resolved.

@Cheet

bji and I are doublevoters apparently?

[West9]

When you come in as scum you already have a warrior attitude, knowing that you're one of the minority that the town majority is gunning for. When you come in as town, you do not have this mentality.

Generalizations like these really hinder your ability to persuade.

[West9]

I've been accused of being "casual" or "underwhelming" before.

I have a role claim to make: I'm a time travelling cop. My role allows me to receive the PM response to my investigation before I even ask it. Turns out I already got my Night 1 PM response, and apparently I had asked whether or not pisskip was scum. And the answer was that he is.

By the way, that was a joke

keep your day job

and in this game there's a user called West. Fuck West.

Ah yeah, I forgot about him/am not used to the user names in this game yet. Why the animosity?

johnny i demand an answer to this

VOTE: bji
Don't like how the pisskop vote was snuck in there behind Victor's vote, and then surrounded by questions and joke-talk/clarificaitons

Second post. Demanding an aswer. Highlighting what he likes and doesn't.

haha this post maybe isn't the best example. The demand for an answer here is a wry joke.

bji, this is a small point but for someone who read my iso you seem to be purposefully ignoring 581. Also, speaking of demands, you refused my demand for a concise summary of your Silverwolf points.

[West9]

As opposed to just giving up and saying that nothing is alignment indicative?

I think have to do this again.
1) West doesn't think that the Silverwolf replacement stuff is alignment indicative
2) West doesn't think that anything is alignment indicative.
This is one hell of a jump.

@West9: are you happy letting other people make wagons for you?

My vote is where I want it to be. I'm fine that it's not on a wagon that I started.

I am not ignoring it. Perhaps we have different ideas about what the phrase "feel free to X" means. I think it means, "you can do X if you want to, but you don't have to". I guess you think it means "you must do X"?

I honestly thought you just didn't read it. It seemed like a small request; I didn't really think that people would just read it and just go "nope. West9."

Do you really want to revisit that? OK, if you demand it. I'll summarize post 632 for you.

The point is that you accused me of not playing while ignoring a thing that I asked you to do. If you didn't want to summarize the points, whatever, but you can't refuse to interact with me and then accuse me of not interacting with the game.

[West9]

Skimming thread. Seems like I need to re-ask this question before I read back:

Ari, how many shots do you have?

[West9]

I'mmmmmm dumb.

[West9]

Ari, why didn't you neighborize pisskop or bji?

Yo, pisskop, what's the EPM case again?

[West9]

Ah, forget about the name thing, bji. I was a dick for harping on it in the first place.

VOTE: EPM in the meantime while I wait for Ari.

I still believe that the interchange between SW and West9 where West9 voted SW, then asked for weak meta evidence, then SW gave it, then West9 unvoted based on that weak evidence, was fishy.

Ugh. This horseshit again. Clearly, me repeatedly telling you that not agreeing with you doesn't mean that I'm scum has not been effective. So, let me try to find some other way to talk to you about this.
You think that this exchange was planned out by scumSW and scumWest so that I could distance myself from scumSW. So, you assume that I went into that vote knowing that particular aspect of Silverwolf's meta. This whole chain of events is super unlikely, especially when you consider the number of games I've played on this site and the number of times I've played with Silverwolf before this game (if you researched my meta, you would find that the answer to these inquires are one and zero, respectively).
Also, you have to assume that Titus and I were scumbuddies, which is a hard theory to pair with my support of/jump onto the titus wagon at a time when I could have helped the PB/Tjoe lurker wagons gain momentum.

I unvoted for the reason I said I unvoted: Silverwolf provided meta-evidence for her read made me question whether or not my vote was any good. So I bailed on the vote.

Now we know SW was scum. Why would she have tried to dissuade me from associating West9 with her if West9 was town?

This is a pretty shallow interpretation of events. She was clearly trying to earn townpoints by giving advice to a newbie. Plus, why would she encourage a scumSW/scumWest associative read? Or, to get to the point, why would she want to encourage a scumSW read?

I wasn't even close to getting lynched in anyone's mind except for yours, bji, and if Silverwolf wanted to make a West/SW connection, she honestly could have done a lot more than disagree with you about playstyle things.

[West9]

even a stopped clock

blah

blah

blah

blah

[West9]

Not sure where I am with the whole "about to get prodded" thing, so this is a small post. After a shallow read of the last page or so, the epm associated reads and tmj's reaction to his wagon are bad enough for me to be okay with these two being the top wagons right now. Will dive deper when I can.

[West9]

Ech. This whole game right now seems like it's just waiting for epm and tmj to do things.

In the meantime (and I'm sorry if this has been answered) people that know Titus and are saying that scum-her bussing people sounds off should talk about what they'd expect from scumTitus.

[West9]

I was about to say, why remove Gliffie?

[West9]

SORRY FOR THE NOTEWALL I HOPE THIS ISN'T TERRIBLE TO READ.

I was about to say, why remove Gliffie?

I like Gliffie. Gliffie replaced Aero, who I also liked.

You should take a look at his iso. It reveals some pretty sketch interactions with Titus. A bunch of weird, waffle-y "Titus is bad but so is this wagon on her" things and some attempts to encourage a wagon swing towards PB and Ari. I wanted to look more into this after people told me about what they usually expected from scumtitus, but that didn't happen, so bleh.

Prolapsed should've been playing enough to know that both Ari and SW were really unlikely to be scum.

huh?

So we have a pretty limited pool of potential scum to complete a trio starring Titus and Prolapsed.

Shouldn't you be waiting for a flip before doing this?

With this post, EPM seems to be sort of just assuming that Prolapsed was scum with not conclusive evidence.

I literally just posted the first of a series

I think you post may have been too long. Apparently if a post takes more than 10 seconds to read, no one wants to read it.

Man, it's so annoying that you say stuff like this when you and VDA make long and redundant posts about how long and redundant you both are being.

Before I start, I wanted to point out that it occurs to me that there is probably a significant reason why SW's very frustrated freak out involved yelling at bji and Prolapsed in particular...[insert paragraph]

Reading into a freak-out that made her so frustrated that she decided to replace out doesn't seem like a helpful or fun thing to do.

Gliffie's concern with the wagon reads as legitimate even though it's unfortunate as a defense of now-flipped scum.

You should elaborate on this.Random question that just popped into my head: bji, why do you like Gillfie again?

the thing is bji seems always to work way too hard to be scum.

huh? p-edit: okay I guess bji knows what this means? This point is very lost on me.

Can you elaborate why you think me and victor is scum bussing?

Posts 1074, 1081, 1082, post 1084. I could elaborate but to be frank I'm getting really tired of making points that no one listens to or cares about.

Thats barely explanation. I think you deserve more attention.

YAWWNNNNNNN how about you play the game instead of telling people how they should be playing the game.

And the two conclusions I could draw are that either SW is really unethical or that it's not unethical for scum to replace out in situations like that. I'm giving her the benefit of the doubt and assuming it's the latter.

it's the latter.

So, basically, evilpacman is setting up a Prolapsed/bji dichotomy? Based off of associated reads from Silverwolf's freakout? I don't like that at all. I'll leave my vote here, at least until Gliffieslot gets here.

[West9]

Random question that just popped into my head: bji, why do you like Gillfie again?

Whoops. This is a dumb question. Instead, you should comment on Gliffie's Titus interactions because I see them as being sketch.

[West9]

Pacman vote feels like it's doing nothing at this point. VOTE: Gliffieslot even though TMJ's definitely dying.

West, whats your opinion of Johnny and TJM?

Johnny is hitting the "Johnny is town" boxes for me. I should probably be a little more worried about that, but I haven't spent the time to look at him in-depth yet.

I'm not gonna cry over TMJ's death. I agree that it's the best lurker lynch, and right now is probably the best time for the best lurker lynch.

Also it was possibly weird that he encouraged me to make another shot at reads and said he'd be interested in them, and when those reads ended up being against SW he never said anything to me about them.

Ha! This is an awesome thing that you found that I missed. Putting it on the "gliffieslot is scum" billboard.

west, did you not also find my response to Titus "waffle-y?" I mean I kinda soft defended her in a similar manner to Gliffie. I thought she was town. That's what I read in Gliffie's defense of Titus too. Sincerity about not liking the wagon.

I mean, your interactions of her aren't great, but Glffie's were worse. More defenses + more attempts to shift the wagon

Ugh. I know I'm sheeping pisskop hardcore, but whatever.

[West9]

Chaos said he'd hammer and I see no reason why to not let him finish that.

I mean, if we're gonna start making time arguments, then I should point out the obvious: holding off on the lynch actually gives Cheet more time to replace Gliffie.

Also, Gliffie is a he.

[West9]

I knew that the vote didn't matter, and I didn't really feel like ending the day, so I shifted it to create consistency with the content of my post.

I honestly didn't think people would get this antsy over it.

[West9]

VOTE: Texcat until Ari gets here

In eliminating people who were instrumental in the Titus lynch, I notice you conveniently skipped my L-2 vote.

Man, I hope your case on me is more than a subtle misrep of that one exchange.

[West9]

Clarification: I was not neighborized. Unless someone else hasn't mentioned it yet, that leaves Chaos.

[West9]

You were defending her most of the day, right up until the time you voted her.

that's one hell of a stretch.

[West9]

*re-reads ISO* lol, nevermind, it's not a stretch, it's just blatantly false.

[West9]

I am going to bet the game on SilverWolf's character. She cannot be scum because to be scum and replace out in that way would be unethical. SilverWolf is not unethical. Therefore she is not scum

I'd argue against this. Her frustration reads to me as alignment neutral, as did her replacement. It is possible for scum to actually get frustrated enough to want to replace out. ScumSW wanting out doesn't depend on her being unethical at all.

And I don't think that I've been contributing at an unreasonably or uncharacteristically low level.

And this? You think this is a defense to?

[West9]

too*

[West9]

It's awfully close. You say that it's alignment neutral.

Yeah, so that I could make the argument that Titus could still be scum.

[West9]

YAWWNNNNN hey let's get back to the part where you forgot to research context while trying to find dirt on me to add to your fabricated case and then misrepped my pushes against Titus as defenses of Silverwolf.

[West9]

bji, are you able to confirm that he tried to neighborize Lapsa night 1?

[West9]

Then comes post 915 (which I wil not quote here in the interests of brevity, please follow the link earlier in this sentence to read it), with reasons not so strong that I would call TMJ "obvious" scum.

Now you're concerned about brevity. The short post, where I made the case for a TMJ lynch is suddenly the one thing not worth quoting. The post I list my fucking reasons. No, fuck it. This was sort scumminess needs to die.

unvote, vote BJI

Egh. I was kinda thinking that this was one of those "newb-bji trying to back-up a scumread and in the process seeing every action that someone made in a scummy light" things again, but this is actually super gross. As is his ignoring of most of 1417.

@texcat

YAWWNNNNN hey let's get back to the part where you forgot to research context while trying to find dirt on me to add to your fabricated case and then misrepped my pushes against Titus as defenses of Silverwolf.

[West9]

I'm not voting VDA, but I'm not backing down when he asks me why I found him suspicious.

But apparently backing down once he pokes some pretty significant holes in your case? Also, are we really already going to the past tense there

lololololol now texcat is trying to get others to make her scumWest case for her. Apparently avoiding her scummy error isn't enough?

[West9]

The Johnny kill was odd, but perhaps the scum was trying to eliminate more PRs.

Texcat came straight out of the gates pushing for a West lynch. Johnny would have been maybe the hardest person to get to support a West lynch. Therefore, Johnny needed to go.

[West9]

West had several options for a vote here and chose to hop on a diminishing Titus wagon. Could be good foresight in bussing, looks more likely town to me.

West over Gliffie?

Gliffie, Why would a phantom SK kill Dooku? Why would you assume additional killing roles at this early juncture?

I mean I was setting the trap to say that and now you ruined it

*insert puffy cheek angry anime girl image*

At the very least, this stuff shows that Johnny would have been hesitant to a West lynch (the first one and maybe the second one) and relatively open to a Gliffieslot one (maybe the second one and the last two). Texcat needs people who are the opposite of that right now.

[West9]

@1178

Gliffie, Why would a phantom SK kill Dooku? Why would you assume additional killing roles at this early juncture?

Because he is scumz.

See, *Johnny* was saying Gliffie is likely scum, not West is likely town.

Eb Wop

Yeah, pisskop, I know. This point still stands.

At the very least, this stuff shows that Johnny would have been hesitant to a West lynch (the first one and maybe the second one) and relatively open to a Gliffieslot one (maybe the second one and the last two). Texcat needs people who are the opposite of that right now.

[West9]

He likes to respond to and point holes in other people's work but doesn't do deep dives himself, from what I read.

I've been told this is true of most of my games.

[West9]

A simple "I'm not paying attention" would have sufficed, Pac.

[West9]

Cool. I'm being wagoned by someone who thinks that VDA is voting for bji, a mafioso who quoted my attacks on Titus as a defense of Silverwolf, and someone who thinks that ChaosOmega is Gliffieslot.

Pisskop, you're paying attention. What's your excuse?

[West9]

Gliffieslot case, if some of you are interested in refocusing and/or playing the game.

TJM

- Oh dear, not much happened here, did it? Bad bji vote and some not very interesting questions. I eagerly await future contributions.

SilverWolf

- Seems fine.

Other people were given analysis during his initial post. These two weren't.

Scum

Aristophanes

TMJ

TMJ? Just gut I presume?

Only interested in TMJ read out of Dooku's list.

What the fuck is going on. Correct me if I'm wrong: Titus is a known sharp player, completely and utterlty missunderstands pisskop, this is apparently scum slip of the century, suddenly L-1? This seems so dumb on both ends. Titus, you are paying attention to the game right? Your posts feel so unfocused. I really don't like this wagon either. It's so incredibly rushed. Why are VDA, P Brain and Lapsa on it? Is just just #YOLOSWAGWAGON or did I miss your actual reasons? Ari's jump onto the wagon feels really opportunitsic too. Oh, and bji is back. Man...

Defense/not defense of titus where he also attacks the Titus wagon.

I don't think it's that unlikely. Cheetory does not originate from this site and this is the first game he's hosting here. Do you think the list mod would not have approved it?

Still pushing for Ari lynch.

Like I said before, I never really had issues with SW/Tidus slot until SW went off the wall and Tidus replaced in. Now the slot is more up in the air, but I really don't like the wagon that formed now.

Wheeeeeee

I doubt you will get anything out of Pea Brain anyways. Someone should just shoot that guy before we waste a lynch on him. I'm all for him giving reads though, if he can accomplish such a feat.

The next day:

VOTE: Prolapsed Brain because I think there's a bigger chance he'll flip scum. I'll hammer Titus before the deadline to avoid a no lynch though. Gj to scum for making me chose between two players who aren't my top scumread. (Someone please vote Ari with me).

So, basically, Gliffie spends the end of day 1 trying to distance himself away from Titus, while still attacking the wagon and trying to push the P-Brain and Ari counterwagons (but not the TMJ wagon. Strangely enough, that gets avoided). Scumbuddies

Texcat replaces in:

Pisskop
Ari
Bji
Victor
PBrain/ChaosO
Pacman
West

This isn't a scumread list. If it was truly based on interactions with Titus, then a more thorough consideration of the implications of my L-2 vote would have happened. This is a list of people Texcat considers the easiest to mislynch.

About my L-2 vote: You guys seriously need to put more thought into that, because there was ZERO motivation for scumWest to vote for Titus at that point in any way possible. Why? Well, on D1 if you were going to bus someone, why wouldn't you bus TMJ? Why would you bus Titus who could potentially be of great benefit to you?
In case that looks familiar:

And as far as the SW/Titus votes go, on D1 if you were going to bus someone, why wouldn't you bus TMJ? Why would you bus Titus who could potentially be of great benefit to you?

When I later bring up the importance of my L-2 vote, this idea is conveniently forgotten

SW and West are both saying that Pisskop is town, (or at least unworthy of L-1), but then both proceed to vote people who agree with them and have there votes elsewhere.

Misrepping me by saying that I voted for Silverwolf because she disagreed with me. I didn't.

I guess we disagree about what "instrumental" means. I meant Pisskop and Bji who led the charge against SW/Titus. They were the driving force.

Silverwolf/bji: eh. this isn't really fun to read. I need a reader's digest version of 632. bji's cluelessness and Silverwolf's exaggeration seem real. That tells me little about alignment.

At face value, I super don't feel comfortable following VDA, PBrain, and bji into this wagon, so we should kill Ari instead.

I agree that SW looked genuine but the fact that she replaced means to me that the exasperation was alignment-neutral

This is the kind of soft defense that I would expect from a scum buddy.

This "soft defense" that she points out in the second quote and the quote that I provide to her and she says is also a defense, is not a defense at all (the first quote is also not a defense, but this specific context that I am about to describe does not apply to it as it does to the first two). It was coming at time that I was suspect of and, later, voting Titus. I was saying that Silverwolf's freakout was alignment neutral in response to people saying that the freakout meant that she must be town.

What happened was that Texcat searched through my ISO, trying to find dirt on me so that she could hastily put together a case and get me mislynched, forgot to check for context, and made a scummy error which she hasn't acknowledged. And she hasn't acknowledged it because she is not trying to find scum.

The decision to vote for me didn't involve a scumread, and the points that she's making against me were CLEARLY compiled and gathered after the decision to try and get me lynched. She's hoping to bank on people's vague scumleans on me (plus, the absence of Johnny, who she knew was a power player that would be resistant to Gliffieslot's attempts to lynch me (I say that Texcat knew that because we all know she has been evaluating player's "power," evidenced by her exchange with bji)).

less scummy than West who defended her most of the day and then voted her at the end.

She keeps saying this in hopes to make it true in the public eye. It is not true. This is also the point where she stops quoting me, or using my words to convince others of my scuminess

Bji, I'm convinced that West is the scum. Could you take a look at him?

I already mentioned this, but it's at this point where Texcat is no longer able to find anything to add to her fabricated case, and doubles down on reliance of some people's vague scummy leanings on me.

Should we talk about why Johnny is dead?

I actually had him very close to the top of the scum list during my read thru. He seems an odd choice for NK.

then:

The Johnny kill was odd, but perhaps the scum was trying to eliminate more PRs.

Texcat came straight out of the gates pushing for a West lynch. Johnny would have been maybe the hardest person to get to support a West lynch. Therefore, Johnny needed to go.

Then:

Oops. Sorry about needing the prod.

I'm still happy with the West lynch.

Pacman, do you really think that Bji was bussing SW? And wrote those giant long walls in order to do so?

Suddenly it's not worth it to talk about the Johnny kill anymore? Okay.

I wanna play a game with you all.

So do I. My game is called "For literally five seconds, think about the possibility of westTown and texcatScum, and be amazed about how much this game fucking falls into place." That's my favorite game.

[West9]

About my L-2 vote: You guys seriously need to put more thought into that, because there was ZERO motivation for scumWest to vote for Titus at that point in any way possible. Why? Well, on D1 if you were going to bus someone, why wouldn't you bus TMJ? Why would you bus Titus who could potentially be of great benefit to you?
In case that looks familiar:

And as far as the SW/Titus votes go, on D1 if you were going to bus someone, why wouldn't you bus TMJ? Why would you bus Titus who could potentially be of great benefit to you?

When I later bring up the importance of my L-2 vote, this idea is conveniently forgotten

I guess we disagree about what "instrumental" means. I meant Pisskop and Bji who led the charge against SW/Titus. They were the driving force.

^This is how that section of my last post should look

[West9]

And I'm sorry I don't think your tale about me getting rid of Johnny to be able to lynch you holds any water at all. It's not like scum is going to win with one more mislynch. Scum needs a boat load of mislynches and they are not going to get them by eliminating players as suspicious as Johnny. Why wouldn't scum kill someone like Pisskop or Bji or even Victor? I think Johnny was eliminated because he is familiar with your play and was likely to figure out that you are scum.

(I mean there's the simpler, also likely possibility of "he was an influential player who wasn't going to get lynched and who was suspicious of Gliffie")

[West9]

And I still agree with that, right up to the point where it looks like the Titus lynch is inevitable. That's when the scum will typically join the wagon for the cred.

This is nowhere near true. The Titus lynch was not inevitable at the time I made my vote.

I look forward to you abandoning conversation on this point once I remark on it's blatant falsehood, as you've done with so much of my argument.

[West9]

No, that's bullshit. It should be easy as hell to see that if you're looking at anything other than my ISO.

[West9]

theres no 3p. But that was wonderful. Brought a tear to my eye. Like, the best results I could ask for.

vote: Texcat

I truly don't understand. Are you making fun of me? If so, please explain better, because I think I am not properly ridiculed if I don't even understand how I'm being ridiculed.

(I think he was talking about me)

[West9]

You're a replacement. You probably read more recent things more thoroughly than you read older things. Not a hard thing to imagine.

[West9]

I would just write this off as "you're lying" if it weren't for the mistake you made in reading my Titus attacks as Silverwolf defenses. That implies some serious lack of context awareness.

[West9]

Prod-dodge. That texcat flip hit me hard. I'm gonna re-read during the weekend.

[West9]

VT. Popcorn Chaos.

[West9]

VDA, what's the Pisskop case?

[West9]

Bussing aside, he has been a drain upon our game.

luv u 2

[West9]

West, what are you currently thinking? Do you need a case on Pacman?

No, that case is really clear and it's where I'm currently leaning. I just want to make sure that I hear about alternative options and see if anything else sparks.

EPM, you said that Victor "couldn't possibly be sure enough about West or Chaos." What remaining doubts do you have on Chaos?

[West9]

"I can't wait til they're all done talking so we can lynch Wake and get this over with"

"Wake" is supposed to be "West," I assume.

Actually it's not that big a deal if it's now been established that both pisskop and Ari are pretty for sure not scum.

I don't get this. How has it been "established" that PK is town?

VDA should presumably be considering the options of me, you, or Chaos being scum.

Alright, and since he's not doing this, then talk about the parts of 1571 that you disagree with.

[West9]

Where is Ari?

[West9]

2) There's some setup stuff but I'll come back to that after the massclaim.

So what was this about?

[West9]

being nitpicky about view count? pointless

[West9]

The pool of plausible suspects is EPM, Ari, and West. West is the most likely.

The thing about a scumAri theory that I don't get is the scummotivation for neighborizing you or bji. I really don't get the idea behind killing bji the night after neighborizing him.

[West9]

Also, duh, killing Lapsa and then claiming to neighborize him. If Ari is a scumneighborizor, he'd probably want to start manipulating a neighbor asap.

[West9]

disregarding away anything that doesn't fit into your narrative.

What is it that falls into this category, then?

[West9]

Well, you say that he's disregarding stuff that doesn't fit into the narrative. I'm trying to figure out what you've presented that you think he's disregarding.

[West9]

Like, he's regarded both the 1v1 on Titus and your idea that informed scum<scum neighborizor

[West9]

Pisskop, just so I know where your head is at in this whole setup spec thing, what scum role do you think balances the game?

[West9]

Encryptor? I'm not sure that silverwolf freakout happens d1 if she has buddies to vent to, and VDA's point about TMJ isn't unconvincing.

[West9]

So . . . following the logic of a scum role that creates privte topics . . .

And now we get to why I don't understand me being your top scumspect.

[West9]

VDA's push is suddenly quite focused for somebody who entered the day claiming 2 possible scums and the NL option.

Victor wanted a no lynch? When?

[West9]

Odds. Im not interested in shoving a specific lynch down the throats of people. There's one scun left, and only a few possible scum choices.

Prolasped was mostly ruled out.
I've claimed and I took out Titus

leaving VDA, West, EPM, and Ari.

Of those, Ari and VDA have fair reasons to support their innocence.
So that leaves West and EPM

So, wait, do you think that there's a scum neighborizor or not?

[West9]

VDA's push is suddenly quite focused for somebody who entered the day claiming 2 possible scums and the NL option.

Victor wanted a no lynch? When?

What? I'm saying we have that option, and he was aware of it.

I thought you were saying that he claimed that the NL was a option.

[West9]

So . . . following the logic of a scum role that creates privte topics . . .

I don't think how this logic, from your perspective, can lead anywhere but Ariscum

[West9]

"think" should be "see"

[West9]

So. What. is. confusing. you.

This question isn't addressed to me, but: the status of Ari and VDA in your lynching pool, your insistence that VDA is being ignorantly stubborn, and the disconnect between your setup spec and your scumspects.

[West9]

pisskop your vote footprint is horrible, idk that you wanna talk about VCA

Where was this when you said that PK was "established town"?

(A)What about the status of VDA and Ari confuses you.
(B)What about my insistence about VDA is confusing.
(C)Why would the last scum claim a town version of their role over VT? Just because I think Ari's rle fills the spot doesnt make him instascum.

A) Regarding Ari, he leaves the lynchpool in 1641 and then comes back in 1652. Which one is the better representation of your thoughts?
Regarding VDA, do you still think what you said in 1607?
B)

He's aware that informed doesnt balance jailer vig, and neighborizer.

I believe I addressed this.

He's confirmed that if I was an informed scum who knew that town couldn't CC me I could claim cop or Tracker.

Actually, now you bring it up, these two claims have problems. Cop is a powerful PR, one which would have raised eyebrow if it survived too long. Tracker on the other hand couldn't be faked, as you had no way of tracking players.

He knows that at the time I joined the SW wagon she had a following, who summarily left that wagon and rejoined due to my diligence.

I think I already mentioned that I believe you've been trying to take too much credit for the SW/Titus wagon.

Like, everything he says here in response to your points that you say he's ignoring is true. You accuse him of being wrong sometimes, and that's whatever, but you're so much more insistent that he's dodging your questions or ignoring you, neither of which is the case. So, I guess it's not confusion so much as "wtf pisskop"

C) I don't think a non-Ari person also being a neighborizor makes sense in terms of lack of CCs, lack of a second neighborization, or even balance. Unless you have other ideas for possible last scum roles that you didn't mention in 1637.

[West9]

Eh. Might as well.
VOTE: EPM

[West9]

yeah, I got added.

gonna go through it and see if i can find what you were talking about its supposed terribleness.

[West9]

I'm fine with NL.

[West9]

I felt the same way and I feel the same way. I didn't want to say anything in the hood because of the whole "not 100% sure that you're town and didn't want to inspire a kill full of wifom" thing.

[West9]

If you're town, I really hope that your vague and continued hatred of my playstyle was worth losing the game over.

From saying TJM can/will die and trying to vote on Gliffie

I said that TMJ was going to die at a point when TMJ was going to die. 1322 is still how I feel about it.

o your soft nudges for SW/against players talking about her

Nope! Neither of these things happened. I said that Silverwolf's freakout was allignment neutral in response to bji saying that she had to be town because of it. Apparently, between you and Texcat, nobody's bothering to read back before using that as ammunition against me.

Still something that looks bad everytime I look at it.

I am so tired of having to argue against this non-point.
Yeah, unvoting scum was a bad idea in hindsight. No shit.
But that slot DIED that day. And it probably wouldn't have been the preferred wagon if I hadn't brought it back to L-2.

You dont feel like the one game we played, your interactions around the scum have been weird and toned down, and I'm not happy with it.

Glad that you've been able to nail down my playstyle after playing one game with me.

Pisskop, for real, if you thought I was scum, why the fuck would you tell me who you were "suspicious of" in the neighborhood?

[West9]

see, people always shit on me for focusing too much on what people say about me, but I swear to god, more people fucking make up false bullshit about me and what I say and do than any other player that I know. It's unbelievable. It's not even, like, people having incorrect assumptions. It's just straight-up lies.

[West9]

I kinda thought that the point of the no lynch was to not say things that would influence the nk.

You don't have points for me to refute anymore. You voting for me means that you've stopped trying to figure out the game, and you've forced me to wait here until Chaos gets here and either confirms that he's town or wins the game for himself.

[West9]

Or that

GG.

Everything I said was the truth.

[West9]

I can't believe that all three wagons d1 were scum, and we still lost the game.

[West9]

nah, we both fell victim to the same disease this game

the disease of "analyzing players that were actually playing the game instead of lurkerscum."

[West9]

also, hardcore paranoia, but

[West9]

yippie.

af & maf pts plz

[West9]

okay.

I like the part where you discussed your reads and refuted my points instead of just cried like a Piglet instead of a Tiger.

By the way, Piglet is superior 100 acre woods resident. Tigger is the worst.
Actually, maybe Owl is the worst. Owl is pretty bad.
Kanga and Eeyore are totally the best.
ooh I forgot about Rabbit. Rabbit's pretty awful as well.
Who else is there? Pooh? no one cares about Pooh.
The Heffalumps and Woozels scared me as a kid.

[West9]

OH FUCK I FORGOT ROO

ROO'S PRETTY COOL

[West9]

By the way, Titus POTG duh. Sacrificed herself and TMJ to fuck over the rest of the game.

[West9]

POTG: Player of the game.

Cheet, here's something that I'm curious to get your opinion on:

I'm not sure how much of my recent sub-par play/lynchability is due to something changing with my playstyle and how much is just adapting pains that will go away as I get used to MS meta and two-week deadlines.

[West9]

I think CO made the calculation that you would sink into me faster than VDA would sink into you.

[West9]

@cheet feel free to skype that shit to me.

[West9]

lol hey I do say "feel free to" a lot, don't i

[West9]

Honestly, if TMJ and PB were my scummates D1, I think would've said "fuck this" and either replaced out or bussed them to the end of the world as well.

[West9]

lol hey I do say "feel free to" a lot, don't i

speaking of this

apparently, the person who took "west" on this site made 5 posts in 2004 and hasn't been active since. yayyyyyyy

[West9]

I like West. It's a neat and clean name. The "9" at the end muddies it up.

Cheet, I'd evaluate the setup, but Young's game has made me biased and paranoid of neighborizors and I haven't gotten over hating them.

[West9]

I didn't want to put in neighborizer if it makes you feel better.

interesting. it does.

lol hey that reminds me, I can talk about this now!
Ari getting a fake-neighborizor role in my D2 while I was kinda suspicious that he was a scum-neighborizor in this game was fucking hilarious.

[West9]

Honestly, if TMJ and PB were my scummates D1, I think would've said "fuck this" and either replaced out or bussed them to the end of the world as well.

Yeah, I wouldn't have done that. I would have played my best regardless. Maybe I take this game too seriously.

Sometimes bussing is the best option. I rarely bus but here it was actually playing my best to bus them. It's risky but if you make it look good, it can pay dividends. This game would have been a lot worse if a townie replaced out and someone familiar with my scum meta subbed in as I'm known for defending my buddies.

And sometimes replacing out is the best option. Taking the game seriously doesn't exclude the possibility of someone, for whatever reason, recognizing that they are not able to play the game anymore.

[West9]

I'm still mad at myself for forgetting roo.

[West9]

dont we all