Mini Normal 1940: The Apartment [Endgame]
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RadiantCowbells He/himSmooth CriminalHe/him
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RadiantCowbells He/himSmooth CriminalHe/him
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RadiantCowbells He/himSmooth CriminalHe/him
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What's the point of this vote?In post 75, TesXX wrote:
VOTE: firecrocerIn post 57, firecrocer wrote:And especially useless in RVS VOTE: TessXX
2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.-
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RadiantCowbells He/himSmooth CriminalHe/him
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RadiantCowbells He/himSmooth CriminalHe/him
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Firecrocer is super lynchbaity and the reasons that she has been pushed this game are awful and NAI.
The push on her has been explicitly because the reasons that she has given to vote others are /bad/ - not because of anything actually scummy that she has done.
While I don't personally agree with her views on RVS mod voting I think it's perfectly reasonable that she would hold the view that it's a bad thing.
Can we not be classic moron town who powertunnel people we disagree with and actually play the game?
Because I've read her correctly in every game and am leaning town on her right now and quite frankly all your reads on her fucking suck.2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.-
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RadiantCowbells He/himSmooth CriminalHe/him
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I'm taking no position on your alignment for the first few days.In post 145, Boonskiies wrote:@RC - You haven't voted me yet, and normally I'd call you out as scum for that, but I know we're trying to push past that stuff. We both have similar reaction testy playstyles. I'm likely about to hardcore tunnel Mulch if he doesn't explain himself better. You know me quite well. Do I ever try to fit in without progressing gamestate? Like, either alignment.
I'll bounce reads on other people off of you if you're interested in doing that but at no point am I going to either push on you or defend you this early for /reasons/.2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.-
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RadiantCowbells He/himSmooth CriminalHe/him
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And you in all objectivity think that you are better at reading her to the point that you think she should be at L-1 unannounced when the only person who has multiple prior games with her here thinks that she's town? Because that's an awful position to hold so that should generally be a scumtell making YOU scum trying to BS your way through a lynch.In post 174, TesXX wrote:Trying to get someone lynched for reasons that are awful is generally a scumtell because it is more likely scum trying to BS their way through a lynch than anything else. It isn't ALWAYS like this, some special circumstances it's different but that's my current opinion of firecrocer, that she's scum trying to push a BS lynch.2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.-
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Her claimed view is perfectly reasonable: by voting the mod you deny town information as to your RVS vote. It's by the book and bad, but not scummy.In post 180, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:My issue with Croc is not that her reasoning is bad, is that its scummy. I know town can push things that are ultimately NAI. However she seems to be exaggerating the importance of such a vote. Whether its because of her definition of RVS or not, it's hard to believe she thinks something can be gained by scum or a third-party voting the mod. I don't see how even lynch bait or a new player can hold those views and with her unable to explain how doing nothing wins games so far, I'm incline to believe she's just bullshitting and trying to hold on to this as long as she can to not actually game solve.
I've had people push on me for the same reason and in the past when I was essentially unlynchable I would bait votes on me to try to read people by doing so.2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.-
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W h e w lads you're really putting on the salt and vinegar chips todayIn post 177, TesXX wrote:
Lol, she's not at L-1. You're pushing lies and utter BS on me.In post 175, RadiantCowbells wrote:
And you in all objectivity think that you are better at reading her to the point that you think she should be at L-1 unannounced when the only person who has multiple prior games with her here thinks that she's town? Because that's an awful position to hold so that should generally be a scumtell making YOU scum trying to BS your way through a lynch.In post 174, TesXX wrote:Trying to get someone lynched for reasons that are awful is generally a scumtell because it is more likely scum trying to BS their way through a lynch than anything else. It isn't ALWAYS like this, some special circumstances it's different but that's my current opinion of firecrocer, that she's scum trying to push a BS lynch.
VOTE: Radicantcowbells
Also, I have no way of knowing that YOU'RE town therefore I don't know if you're reading her right so idk really why you think I should listen to you over whatIthink is right.2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.-
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Nah I just wanted to get people to unvote because I'm concerned that scum are trying to rush a mislynch today to nightkill me.
2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.-
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I agree. I don't think that much is lost. But I can also look at this from Firecrocer's viewpoint and I find it at best unlikely that even with me talking you through it you're totally brick wall as to what Town!Firecrocer could possibly have been thinking when she made that vote. Feels like you're stonewalling me because you don't want to back down on a read for tactical reasons.2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.-
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BS to lynch you? It's FUCKING RVS SHE HASN'T CLAIMED A COP GUILTY ON YOU OVER IT.In post 192, TesXX wrote:
I do think it's possible that she's town. I just think it's unlikely. As I've explained.In post 187, RadiantCowbells wrote:I agree. I don't think that much is lost. But I can also look at this from Firecrocer's viewpoint and I find it at best unlikely that even with me talking you through it you're totally brick wall as to what Town!Firecrocer could possibly have been thinking when she made that vote. Feels like you're stonewalling me because you don't want to back down on a read for tactical reasons.
I think scum!Firecrocer trying to use BS to lynch me is more likely than the town viewpoint she would have.2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.-
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I mean I think that you're obvious scum with your shit tier push on Firecrocer but apparently that's not a universally agreed upon opinion so . . .In post 195, TesXX wrote:
Although why would scum rush a mislynch? Wouldn't that make them clearly obvious?In post 184, RadiantCowbells wrote:Nah I just wanted to get people to unvote because I'm concerned that scum are trying to rush a mislynch today to nightkill me.
2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.-
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I did say so: I said that there is a person here who is capable of reading Firecrocer and they think that she's town. That person is me.
There is also a large portion of the site who irrationally thinks that Firecrocer is scum or who roll scum and use her as a free mislynch because towns are shit, and that portion is called other people.2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.-
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I don't think I need to do anything beyond what I've already done to be 100% sure that she doesn't get lynched while I'm alive.In post 199, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:I understand you have experience with her as well as meta. You do realize that others don't and some aren't going to view her play the same way in those games as you do if they bother to compare it to here right? Or that there are players that don't put much stock in meta?
I think if you want people to come around to town Croc, you need something better.
If you want to be dumb and lynch her when I'm gone, that's your prerogative and I have no control over that.2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.-
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So you agree that Tesxx is twisting what actually happened to help justify a shit push on Firecrocer? You should vote them with me then.In post 201, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:I haven't seen any push from Croc so I'm not sure where Tes is getting that from. I just see hard to believe reasoning.2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.-
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...I've done enough. My job is done.In post 206, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:
Well this is my first encounter with her so I guess I can do some homework.In post 202, RadiantCowbells wrote:
I don't think I need to do anything beyond what I've already done to be 100% sure that she doesn't get lynched while I'm alive.In post 199, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:I understand you have experience with her as well as meta. You do realize that others don't and some aren't going to view her play the same way in those games as you do if they bother to compare it to here right? Or that there are players that don't put much stock in meta?
I think if you want people to come around to town Croc, you need something better.
If you want to be dumb and lynch her when I'm gone, that's your prerogative and I have no control over that.
And I think you do? How can you have the "towns are shit" stance and not think you need to do more than usual?
I don't think that I have anything more that I have to do today and I don't think spending more time committing to that townread will change people's actions when I'm dead.
Your issue is that you think that I am required for some reason to give reasons. I'm not, it doesn't give town any sort of benefit, my job is mostly done here.
There's choices of words and phrases that show a clear malicious intent to frame the push in a bad way.Except I can see how one can see her explaining her reasoning as a push.
This is called TesXX realizing that they're pushing a dead end and trying to find an excuse to back off of it.How did you forget or not know this? He just basically stated it like a minute ago.2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.-
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It's not
that's not why tesxx is scum
but I totally understand the line of reasoning Firecrocer went down for that vote and it's not difficult to understand.
Votes in RVS from a certain point of view give everyone information.
Votes on the mod in RVS obscure information.
Therefore, TesXX is scum because they're obscuring information.
It's bad reasoning. But it doesn't make Firecrocer scum.2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.-
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It's not about wrong or right it's about the fact that this is a super scummy way of asking the question and you're not talking to me like town who thinks I'm scum.In post 220, TesXX wrote:
I'd also like an ACTUAL response to this EXPLAINING why you think this is wrong RC.In post 177, TesXX wrote:Also, I have no way of knowing that YOU'RE town therefore I don't know if you're reading her right so idk really why you think I should listen to you over whatIthink is right.2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.-
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1) it's a herIn post 233, Mulch wrote:
Link games where you have seen him be lynchbait.In post 231, RadiantCowbells wrote:Mulch I will lynch you if you try to push me as scum for defending Firecrocer. You should know better.
2) viewtopic.php?f=2&t=72508 is her only finished town game2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.-
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If I'm not going to get the right to veto a single lynch on someone who has been lynched in every finished game that they've been in, for really shitty reasons in the game where they were town, I will start lynching the people fighting with me until I have that right. I don't really feel like I need to justify this townread so much.
This isn't about it being Firecrocer your collective push on her is fucking stupid no matter who it is. period. the end. it's bad.2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.-
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there's no shit to handwave.the push on her is terrible. I'm not handwaving a slot: if there were legitimate reasons to scumread her I would consider them.
You're basically all just going 'well I personally disagree with her, even though someone else clearly spelled out the town process, so she's scum': aka being classic idiot town that I can't take seriously.
if there was a push on her that had merit I'd look into it. as is the case on her is that you disagree with her push so she's scum, and if that's the case I'm playing with a lot of scum.2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.-
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there's the implication in your posts that your push on her is a legitimate one that should be taken seriously. it isn't. there's no value in it. this is the kind of game where it's day 1 and I already know that town is going to lose because the collective idiocy is off the charts. tesxx is the kind of person who is actually scum and firecrocer is the kind of person who is town and has actual views so town piledrives them because people who are actually scummy aren't nearly as threatening as people who say something you disagree with2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.-
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SHE DID THOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOIn post 252, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:Its not that I disagree, I think not being able to properly back up and go in-depth on how voting for the mods of games helps scum win-con implies bullshitting. Sure she could have just not thought about the reasoning from that point of view but she doesn't at least from this game strike me as completely dumb. She's most certainly capable of thought based on the beliefs and views she's shared so far. I think town would take more time to think about the scum motivation and quickly come to the conclusion that what Tes did isn't really worth going into.
I WASN'T LIKE PUTTING WORDS INTO HER MOUTH THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT SHE SAID.In post 153, firecrocer wrote:My vote on you was not RVS. Granted, it wasn't a hard scumread vote but it had rationale.
Because by voting the mod you're a) not helping the game, and b) Not making a commitment that could put you under suspicion. It's a way of doing something while doing nothing.In post 122, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:And how would it be useful for scum or a third-party to vote a moderator of a game?2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.-
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LIKE YOU ARE PUSHING SOME IMAGINARY REASONING WHERE SHE DECLARED THAT TESXX WAS TO BE IMMEDIATELY DAYVIGGED. THIS IS NOT BASED ON REALITY.
SHE VOTED SOMEONE WHILE STILL IN RVS OVER SOMETHING THAT SHE CONSIDERED A MINOR SCUMTELL. SHE DID NOT DECLARE THEM LOCKSCUM.
Want to know why town lost 205? this is why town lost 205.2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.-
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If you don't care about trying to better yourself as town then don't argue with the people that actually do.In post 276, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:I'm not sure why you're bringing up Large 205? I was town so I literally don't care that I lost.2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.-
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You are arguing semantics. Firecrocer is perfectly entitled to believe that hiding information on yourself is beneficial as scum.In post 279, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:No she didn't. At best she said why it's anti-town, not why scum benefit a lot from doing that.
You disagreeing with her does not mean that her believing in her position from her point of view is untenable.
I don't think this discussion is going to go anywhere productive because you're not showing any willingness to try to look at it from Fire's PoV rather than your own.2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.-
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In an entirely simplistic frame of view, voting the mod -> town can't read anything from your vote -> scum is aided by it works. I don't see how you can make any effort to look at it from a viewpoint other than your own and not see that, though I haven't seen much effort elsewhere to see things from other people's PoVs as scum. Maybe that's why you got lynched in Divergent and blamed town, because you couldn't see why town saw the situation differently than you did as to why someone else should have been the day's lynch.2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.-
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She already has. You just determined that, since you don't agree with it, it's a lie and that she's scum for it.In post 287, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:She's entitled to it and we as town are entitled for her to explain why it's actually scummy. This isn't hard.2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.-
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You're making it clear that you're making no effort to look at things from other people's PoVs, only your own. Empathy is overpowered as town.In post 287, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:pedit: You keep bringing up old games and for what I don't know why. Town let scum claim Ascetic on Day 5 and live another day. That's not optimal.
I'm showing you that it isn't just your town game that you're sabotaging, it's also your scum game when you aren't figuring out how town are operating.2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.-
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I mean I townread her in general, vaguely. I'm not super certain that she's town with no flip on you, but I trust my vague townread on her more than everyone else's confident scumreads.
Unlikely under the presumption that she thinks in the exact same way that you do: sure. but this reasoning will lead you off many cliffs in mafia games.No I'm not saying she lied. I'm saying that all those things are simply anti-town or NAI. I found her investment in it not only unreasonable, but unlikely.2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.-
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RadiantCowbells He/himSmooth CriminalHe/him
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Which goes back to what I've been saying this entire day phase: you aren't interested in the people that you understand but lynch the people that you don't.
Same song, different verse: you're lynching the people that think differently than you rather than the people who are objectively scummy. And I'm townreading neither Keyen nor Boon.2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.-
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RadiantCowbells He/himSmooth CriminalHe/him
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RadiantCowbells He/himSmooth CriminalHe/him
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I didn't say /all/ people that you understand. I'm saying that you, like the vast majority of mafia players, have a proclivity towards assuming that understanding someone is a towntell.
Look how many games I've been in where people locked me as town because I said something that aligned perfectly with their views. I was scum in tons of them.
Most people who are lynchbait, such as Titus, are lynchbait because their thought processes are so far outside the norm that people ascribe scum motivation to it.
They assume that, rather than them simply not understanding the person and that being NAI, the person could not actually believe what they claim and that they are scum for it.
This isn't the first time I've had this argument, it won't be the last, but -even if I totally didn't understand where Firecrocer was coming from- (I totally do) I wouldn't scumread her for it.
There are very, very few games where scum say stuff that blatantly doesn't make sense, knowing that it doesn't make sense, because they can't say anything that sorta makes sense.
There are tons of games where town says something that they think makes sense, no one agrees with them, and they get lynched for it.
Most scum put in the extra effort to make their views more palatable to the game at large which is why town winrates in the present climate of lynch everyone who disagrees with me are so piss poor: the scum make the effort to have popular views on things, town don't and get singled out and lynched for it.2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.-
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RadiantCowbells He/himSmooth CriminalHe/him
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RadiantCowbells He/himSmooth CriminalHe/him
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