Mini Normal 1964 - Hell Is 56k Dialup - Endgame!

[northsidegal]

Firaja Is Replaced By northsidegal.

Welcome NSG.

Now tell us why you shouldn’t be the Lynch today?

i'm town!

i'll have more to say later but i've been following along with this game so i don't have too much catching up to do.

[northsidegal]

i'm here, currently typing up some reads now.

[northsidegal]

Okay then

Did you think your slot was getting a red or green pm?

oh, i misinterpreted this the first time i read it - are you asking if i replaced in thinking that my slot was town or scum? i honestly don't follow games that i'm just reading as close as games that i'm playing in, so the slot was null for me. that didn't factor into anything, though - i was on the replacement queue and had no idea who i was replacing.

[northsidegal]

okay, so here are my thoughts having followed along with the thread and done a quick reread.

can someone explain the wagon on the ucv slot to me? i get that he really hasn't done much this game except for a weak push on jodaxq, but i'm not sure that that's especially alignment-indicative enough to warrant a lynch. lynches for "null" behavior like that have always struck me as lazy in the same way as lurker lynches. with that in mind i'm not necessarily saying i'm against it today, just saying that hopefully screenplay can clarify the read there on that slot.

i'm getting a scumlean from jodax, but it's something i'm constantly doubting myself on. the intial motivation for ucv makes total sense to me - ucv wasn't really contributing anything but was clearly in the thread, so that warrants suspicion. at this point, though, i wonder about the motivation behind singling out ucv specifically over other posters who weren't really contributing much or were just lurking it out. the later continuation of the read and the justifications are what leads to the scumread - specifically, i take issue with this:

3. It's not about low contributing, it's about fake contributing. In that same newbie game I hard cased sheepsaysmeep (who was scum) very early on in the game for similar reasons as I'm casing you now. He posted a lot of fake contibution (he always wanted pagetops and asked for reads instead of provided) and I feel like you're doing the same with your asking about meme posting or trying to keep people from insulting one another.

jodax, what makes you read ucv's posts specifically as intentionally fake contributions as opposed to just intentional non-contributions? you're saying that he's attempting to put forward the image of contributing but to me it seems like he never attempted to put forward that pretense.

another thing that grabs my attention is the explanation of ucv's actions in 489. it just doesn't make sense to me: ucv's actions can hardly be considered a serious push and the explanation doesn't explain anything outside of the one post where ucv says he scumreads jodax.

---

i wonder how easy this game would be if i took it seriously. lol
i am 100% positive scum want to lynch bait me.

I love how this post precedes your boldest read of the game. So I'm guessing you made this post so if I turn up vanilla civ you can just say you weren't taking it seriously, right? Making sure you cover all your bases is a typical scum move.

finally, this post just exudes someone twisting facts to fit their beliefs and constructing narratives. this is a telltale sign of either a confbiased townie or scum who deliberately has to contrive pushes on people given that they already know everyone's alignment. i'm getting the feeling that it's the latter of the two.

splitting the rest up to avoid a wall for transcend's sake.

[northsidegal]

woah, i was just reviewing a bit more and this jumps out to me a lot. katayusha, can you explain your scumread on firaja? where does it come from?

i think i'll have a lot more to say after you answer.

[northsidegal]

the feeling i get from reading schadd's iso is that he seems to take for granted that some people are town. whereas he's commented on his townread on keychain given that the topic of keychain being scum was brought up, it seems to me like without any discussion or at least visible reasoning he's accepted transcend, zach and katayusha as being town. this could just as easily come from familiarity with the players as it could from already knowing everyone's alignment and only commenting on cases that other people bring up (to give the appearance of activity or of deliberation), so i'm not making this as some huge alignment indicative point.

schadd, could say who you townread and explain why?

[northsidegal]

Welcome, North and Srceen! Lovely to see both of you again. Bye Firaja and UCV.

Joda's dropped out of top three for me. North, do you have anything more than a lean on anyone, or is Joda your top scumread?

hey keychain! reads are still changing as i read the thread closer now that i'm actually in here and there are some things i'm keeping to myself for now - i should be able to tell you with confidence soon.

[northsidegal]

the feeling i get from reading schadd's iso is that he seems to take for granted that some people are town. whereas he's commented on his townread on keychain given that the topic of keychain being scum was brought up, it seems to me like without any discussion or at least visible reasoning he's accepted transcend, zach and katayusha as being town. this could just as easily come from familiarity with the players as it could from already knowing everyone's alignment and only commenting on cases that other people bring up (to give the appearance of activity or of deliberation), so i'm not making this as some huge alignment indicative point.

schadd, could say who you townread and explain why?

It Seems Like You Care More About His Townreads Than His Scum Reads Here? Also Have You Avoided Expressing A Read On Me? I've Pushed You The Most At This Point.

his townreads are what i'm specifically asking him about, yes. do you take issue with that? i think it's a perfectly valid avenue of investigation to follow. also, i haven't

avoided

talking about you specifically, i just haven't done it yet.

okay, so here are my thoughts having followed along with the thread and done a quick reread.

can someone explain the wagon on the ucv slot to me? i get that he really hasn't done much this game except for a weak push on jodaxq, but i'm not sure that that's especially alignment-indicative enough to warrant a lynch. lynches for "null" behavior like that have always struck me as lazy in the same way as lurker lynches. with that in mind i'm not necessarily saying i'm against it today, just saying that hopefully screenplay can clarify the read there on that slot.

There's Not That Much To Clarify Lol. It Doesn't Really Warrant A Lynch More than EE or Dunnstral Who Are Both Better Choices In The Same Category.

why do you like those lynches better than ucv?

i wonder how easy this game would be if i took it seriously. lol
i am 100% positive scum want to lynch bait me.

I love how this post precedes your boldest read of the game. So I'm guessing you made this post so if I turn up vanilla civ you can just say you weren't taking it seriously, right? Making sure you cover all your bases is a typical scum move.

finally, this post just exudes someone twisting facts to fit their beliefs and constructing narratives. this is a telltale sign of either a confbiased townie or scum who deliberately has to contrive pushes on people given that they already know everyone's alignment. i'm getting the feeling that it's the latter of the two.

Explain More On This One Here?

sure - jodax is placing a lot of grand strategy into what really appears to be a relatively meaningless comment. from my point of view there's really nothing alignment-indicative about that comment there, nor does it really seem like scum setting anything up to cover their bases. i don't think it's really reasonable to see those things in that post, so anyone who does is probably confirmation biased or making disingenuous arguments.

another thing that grabs my attention is the explanation of ucv's actions in 489. it just doesn't make sense to me: ucv's actions can hardly be considered a serious push and the explanation doesn't explain anything outside of the one post where ucv says he scumreads jodax.

At The Time Joda Was A Main Wagon And UC Was Present On Her Vote. Plurality Lynch Can Favor Scum Heavily Or It Can Favor Town Heavily With A Bloc. The Situation Makes Complete Sense Tho And This Specific Instance Makes It Appear As If You're Trying To Present Otherwise.

what i was trying to say was that jodax only explained the scum motivation behind ucv's vote, rather than his actions the whole game.

i also had not realized that this game is plurality lynch, although i'm not sure how much that changes things.

[northsidegal]

5. Deadline Lynch: When the deadline passes, if no player has a majority of the votes, the player with the most votes will be lynched. If more than one player is tied for the most votes, no lynch will occur.

[northsidegal]

Looks like this is heading for a deadline scramble.

what makes you say that?

[northsidegal]

I'm guessing it's the lack of activity as deadline approaches, seems pretty self explanatory. If you've got things to say, you should say them soon.

I was townreading Firaja, but you seem a lot scummier. You also haven't changed your vote since replace in, and it's on the leading wagon when we have plurality lynch Where do you want it?

am i seeing the same five and a half day deadline as you are? i guess it being near thanksgiving could mean people being less active but it just seems like we've got time to me.

why do you scumread me more than firaja? also, i honestly hadn't noticed my vote - this is my first game using plurality lynch so there's never been a pressing concern for me to unvote right after replacing in.
UNVOTE:

this will move shortly.

[northsidegal]

will attend to this later! nsg asked for townreads and explanations and i can give one of those transcend keychain wavemode maybe dunnstral espeonage? did espeonage replace fajita

the explanations are the more important part of that equation so i'd still appreciate those, but this is still useful.


for all of you voting everyone else, why isn't dunnstral the better lynch? while everyone else hasn't even been putting forward the pretense of scumhunting or playing the game, dunnstral's gut reads and votes seem to suspiciously align with the popular wagons at the time. is there some meta aspect that i'm missing here?

[northsidegal]

nsg, lol

?

Lol

*Why EE

I can't say his posts aren't doing shit because they are, he's aware when he enters the game, they're just deliberately not doing nothing which is pretty scummy

Same with Dunnstral

schadd is also a non entity but he's also wavy so I'm fine with having my read be dynamic there
schadd is more or less doing the same thing he was doing the whole game he's just not posting him now which is why katyusha kind of confuses me

I have unfortunately been delaying getting into this game

this is all he's said lmao

so what made you choose ee over dunnstral?

[northsidegal]

woah, i was just reviewing a bit more and this jumps out to me a lot. katayusha, can you explain your scumread on firaja? where does it come from?

i think i'll have a lot more to say after you answer.

He seemed hesitant to commit to any stance or point any hard fingers at anyone. That wishy washiness i feel usually comes from new scum who don't really want to stand out but want to at least seem like they're contributing. I tried poking him with my last question to see if I can get him to give a stance on something besides the cy/UC interactions he was focusing on for most of the game.

I'm going to try to start on a clean slate though with your slot since the break I accidentally took is kind of throwing me off.

i see this tell a lot and i'm really not a fan of it - sure, hesitance can come from scum scared to take a stance, but it just as easily comes from people having a hard time forming clear reads. if you were going to make the point that someone's contributions were fabricated or that they were deliberately attempting to put forward the image of contributions without actually doing so, that would be a perfectly valid point, but i'm not sure that's what you're doing. when i was looking through your iso your push on firaja caught my attention a ton because it really seemed like you just jumped on him for the rvs post and then kept pushing him for just that, even though to me what he said made total sense. from your recent posts i'm getting a bit more of a town sense, though - i was waiting to make a case from 560 but that's mostly gone now.

schadd can i get like a readlist from you because your trajectory feels all over the place to me from a quick iso

VOTE: schadd

i'll give nsg a chance to engage and do contenty things that arent walls since i still cant stomach this game's walls fsr

(probably bc im not that into this game sorry) - schadd's voting history is pretty crappy though and im not getting much thought process here

EE is a valid fos imo but schadd is the same but better (scummier?)

i'd say i'm fully in this game now even if i still haven't gotten around to wall iso-ing everyone yet - feel free to engage. the same goes for keychain, who i believe said something along the same lines.

[northsidegal]

Idk why i don't, i just don't.

There's only one line of his ididn't like

The rest r ok

i know it's not really your style, but mind explaining the cy/espeonage vote? from your iso i think it's something to do with the associatives with my slot, but i'm not sure what it is exactly. i guess this goes for anyone else voting there, too.

[northsidegal]

@keychain, can you explain your reads progression on cy? it seems like you came out of an early game interaction townreading him but there's about a 350 post gap where he doesn't come up at all until 517, where he's at the bottom of the list. what happened?

Could also do cy

Why? I liked his response for the most part.

i have problems with your cy progression basically
but im conflicted about a thing rn

Is this a thing you're planning to share with the class?


@UCV: who is scum?

PEdit: damn it I was asking that Zach

Yes yes your Joda wagon died and you are sad so now you want cy instead. I'm thinking.

I'm having a sit down to work things out because I think I'm losing track of threads

I got through most of the players but I need to stop for the night.

Right now, from town to scum:
Firaja
wavemode
Katyusha
Havo
Dunnstral
UC Voyager
Everyone Else
cytheflyguy

Leaves Transcend, Zach, Joda and schadd for tomorrow. I'll have more interesting things to say when I've finished the rest of the playerlist, hopefully.

I have learned that scum tend to contribute more because

most people prefer to play scum.

(bolding mine)

I missed this the first time round. I just... ahahahaha is this really true? I certainly don't prefer scum Do you have any sources for this bold claim, UCV?

[northsidegal]

im getting voted on?

I really don’t know why we aren’t lynching this?

There is no kind of consensus.

why that over this?

so what made you choose ee over dunnstral?

i don't put priority on scum
but the outside possibility exists that dunnstral is just being a fuck nugget. which is something that's actually liable to have happened


i dont care tho id vote either way

huh

[northsidegal]

responding to the first part of this separate from the second.

i'd say i'm fully in this game now even if i still haven't gotten around to wall iso-ing everyone yet - feel free to engage. the same goes for keychain, who i believe said something along the same lines.

Why no vote? Also, I don't think you've given your read on the Cy/Espe slot, I'd like to hear that.

i'm waiting on schadd. cy had a really awkward rvs and nothing else he did really stood out to me. nothing espe has done has looked particularly townie to me, either - i'd be willing to lynch there.

Regarding Dunnstral vs EE: For me, Dunnstral is null. Voting there is literally a lurker-lynch. It looks a lot like he's only skimming a couple of recent posts each time he says anything, from his response to me and his vote on Espe. Your 701 is seriously weird. Dunnstral is an awful lynch for today and I'm sure you can do better than that.
EE is also lurking but his actions have been considerably more scummy. Every time someone votes him he appears and splashes around a bit. It doesn't seem like uninvested town, who I don't think would be so bothered by a bit of pressure. 462 and 506 were particularly bad as posts that looked like he was trying to exist in the game but contributed exactly nothing.

i'm not really sure why there's such a huge divide between the two to you, and to me dunn's actions seem a lot scummier. i don't think only responding to posts about you is a scumtell, at least when it comes to lurkers. i say this because there have been games i've been in that i've found it hard to get into and i find myself only responding to either comments about me or questions directed towards me. dunnstral, on the other hand, only seems to hop in to vote the consensus wagon. i'm not saying either are the best lynch today - what i'm saying is that the people who want an everyone else lynch should really be looking at dunnstral instead.

What benefit do you get out of trying to equalise the two?

why are you assuming that i'm scum here? i'm really not sure what to make of this comment. i would think confbias but you don't seem to show that anywhere else. why do you assume that i have some ulterior motive or gain some benefit out of examining dunnstral, as opposed to it being my actual thoughts and a genuine attempt to get into this game?

[northsidegal]

by the way, nice hat!

[northsidegal]

addendum to the last non-hat related post:

VOTE: Espeonage

gut scummy

but why must you do this to the wagon

I'm

on

it seems here that you even recognize that dunnstral's hop-ons are scummy - why place such a huge divide between the two?

[northsidegal]

A crucial part of my towngame is throwing out my good reads to tunnel on town, don't you know? not sure why you'd think I'm confbiasing on you when I've told you I strongly townread your slot though.

where did you say that? you said i seemed a lot scummier than firaja in 599 and you said you were waiting to talk about your read on me in 604. the confbias thing wasn't necessarily to imply that you were scumreading me, it's just a comment that i feel would come from someone who was confbiased on someone else - assuming by default that they're scum in their questioning.

I'll concede that my reasoning for EE isn't strong, but I still don't like how you're trying to talk me into scumreading a slot that has done nothing. I'm happy to leave him until he can get into the game.

I'm referring to your persistence in comparing the two, as shown in these posts.

Spoiler:

will attend to this later! nsg asked for townreads and explanations and i can give one of those transcend keychain wavemode maybe dunnstral espeonage? did espeonage replace fajita

the explanations are the more important part of that equation so i'd still appreciate those, but this is still useful.


for all of you voting everyone else, why isn't dunnstral the better lynch? while everyone else hasn't even been putting forward the pretense of scumhunting or playing the game, dunnstral's gut reads and votes seem to suspiciously align with the popular wagons at the time. is there some meta aspect that i'm missing here?

(should also point out that his gutread on me was scum, and I don't think I've been a popular wagon at any point)

nsg, lol

?

Lol

*Why EE

I can't say his posts aren't doing shit because they are, he's aware when he enters the game, they're just deliberately not doing nothing which is pretty scummy

Same with Dunnstral

schadd is also a non entity but he's also wavy so I'm fine with having my read be dynamic there
schadd is more or less doing the same thing he was doing the whole game he's just not posting him now which is why katyusha kind of confuses me

I have unfortunately been delaying getting into this game

this is all he's said lmao

so what made you choose ee over dunnstral?

im getting voted on?

I really don’t know why we aren’t lynching this?

There is no kind of consensus.

why that over this?

so what made you choose ee over dunnstral?

i don't put priority on scum
but the outside possibility exists that dunnstral is just being a fuck nugget. which is something that's actually liable to have happened


i dont care tho id vote either way

huh

If you are town, you must have a reason. I scumread Cy for trying to analyse an absent player and the situation roughly applies here too. Your actions make sense as town if you're suspicious of the EE wagon and you're looking for scum on it. But you say you're suspicious of Dunn, and you're trying to move people compromising on a lurker onto a

different

lurker. Do you see why that might set off alarm bells for me?

ah, i think i understand a bit more now. people voting everyone else over dunnstral seems like an inconsistency to me, and i try to point those out whenever i see them. besides, there's a lot to be gained from hearing people's reasoning on one over the other, and it could even be an indicator of associatives later in the game after we have some flips. i

am

suspicious of the ee wagon, if only because i'm not sure why it exists over another one - it doesn't mean i can't be suspicious of dunn. in fact, the two go together strongly. if i'm suspicious of dunn then the ee wagon popping up instead of him could indicate scum, and vice versa - if i'm suspicious of the ee wagon then it might indicate something about the dunn wagon that didn't pop up.

if we were going to have a compromise lynch then i'd rather have the better one anyways.

[northsidegal]

i was going to ask the same question but i decided that it was most likely a joke - how did you get bulletproof from the three posts wavemode made before claiming?

also not really understanding your reaction, screenplay - what's the problem?

[northsidegal]

also not really understanding your reaction, screenplay - what's the problem?

I don’t want people trying to find and out roles publicly. That is the definition of anti-Town.

but wavemode already hard claimed bulletproof. there's no new information there, wavemode himself hard claimed bulletproof. espeonage even quoted it in the post you were responding to:

I hardclaim 2-shot bulletproof

Aww man, I thought you were straight bulletproof. My crumb reads are getting worse.

[northsidegal]

speaking of which - are we all just treating wavemode as confirmed town?

[northsidegal]

It’s not the only time.
He is openly or hunting.
Not scum hunting.

if you're talking about 727, i don't really consider that crumb hunting. ucv's 270 is hardly a crumb, it's more of an implication. besides, there's still no new information being revealed there.

[northsidegal]

Can this have SKs?

yes, normal games can have at most one serial killer.

[northsidegal]

so what made you choose ee over dunnstral?

i don't put priority on scum
but the outside possibility exists that dunnstral is just being a fuck nugget. which is something that's actually liable to have happened


i dont care tho id vote either way

Oh my goodness I understood literally zero sentences of this post. Can someone translate?

"i don't place priority on voting one scumread over another. i would be willing to switch my vote", seems like the gist of it.

[northsidegal]

Northsidegal and Jodaxq are insisting my vote was scummy for being on a major wagon even though the wagon happened after my vote. The evidence doesn't match up with what you guys are pushing.

I don't think my second vote was ona substantial wagon either?

no, i checked that before making that point. yes, that's what the votecount looked like, but here's what the previous page looked like:

I get the impression Joda should have more to comment on

I feel like a lot of Cy's post are really forced and he's saying a lot of words without saying much of anything. The out-of-practice argument is still a reasonable explanation so I don't think I scumread him particularly hard yet.

UCV seems the most scummy to me so far. A ton of filler, no scum hunting, but has very clearly been active in this game.

VOTE: UC Voyager

yer this is bad

vote joda

in the mean time joda needs some pressure imo

I get the impression Joda should have more to comment on

in the mean time joda needs some pressure imo

VOTE: Joda

I can roll with this

[northsidegal]

Hey so I was kinda wondering how this game is stupid slow, like we're at the end of the day and nowhere near a lynch. So I looked at them juicy stats. I have the 6th most posts and i've been here the least amount of time.

AND there is a distinct lack of content.

Everyone posting one liners without analysis or goodstuffs needs to get their shit together in the next 48 hours. For the record, one liner analysis is the good half of trans' posts, and none of schadd's posts.

i don't mean to be rude but just because you've provided a running commentary of your read through the thread doesn't mean that you've provided the most or even a lot of content. if you'd like to speed the game up, why not talk about something current?

[northsidegal]

I don’t care.
You don’t go calling people out and pr hunt/announce.

Go swing from a tree.

I just realised this is in relation to your slot. Now I am left wondering, why are you angry about it. And really a callout of VT really only stops a different claim without proof.

You know who does those.

It starts with S and ends in Cum.

Later UC posts were badstuffs, now this.

Vote: Screenplay

uh, i'm pretty sure this is bad.
VOTE: espeonage

[northsidegal]

It’s not the only time.
He is openly or hunting.
Not scum hunting.

if you're talking about 727, i don't really consider that crumb hunting. ucv's 270 is hardly a crumb, it's more of an implication. besides, there's still no new information being revealed there.

There is a big difference between thinking you caught something and announcing it to the game. Later if it needs to be brought up it can buy silly to do it for no reason.
But whatever.
Espeonage is obviously softening a killing role.

for someone voting espeonage for bringing up people's power roles, what you just said doesn't make sense.

[northsidegal]

i dont buy for a minute that he picked up crumbs on anyone being bulletproof and didnt pick up on anything else. him getting the person wrong too suggests that the crumb callout was made posthoc after he read wavemode claimed and when he couldnt justify it he just picked a random slot that sounded like it could be a crumb. i dont know espeo's meta but im going to look into it bc i think this is supposed to be an attempt to keep it up.

i really thought this but the speed at which he found the post where he supposedly got the crumb after i asked him about it makes me think that it wasn't fabricated.

[northsidegal]

VOTE: schadd

[northsidegal]

Who wants to do Dunn?

It doesn’t help sort Zach but it can and most likely will cut down on the noise in the future.

could you elaborate on this?

[northsidegal]

This just leaves me with Dunn, Havo, Katy, Keychain, and Schadd.

could you sort these from scummiest to least scummy? it seems you've already got dunn at the bottom.

by the way, sorry for these multi-posts, if that bothers anyone.

[northsidegal]

Who wants to do Dunn?

It doesn’t help sort Zach but it can and most likely will cut down on the noise in the future.

could you elaborate on this?

They tend to tunnel each other pretty aggressively whenever they’re in a game together which leads to a lot of noise that no one wants to read.

is that your only reason for wanting a dunn wagon? i'm not sure why this meta-future-possibility places dunnstral as your number one lynch over other scumreads.

This just leaves me with Dunn, Havo, Katy, Keychain, and Schadd.

could you sort these from scummiest to least scummy? it seems you've already got dunn at the bottom.

by the way, sorry for these multi-posts, if that bothers anyone.

I can’t and if I could, I wouldn’t. My scum reads are everyone there besides Schadd. Schadd is only there because he can get lynched at any time regardless of how I personally read him. Keychain would be the most difficult out of the bunch to lynch as it would take some time to comb through her ISO and convince others.

why wouldn't you? also, if you don't scumread schadd, why didn't you place him in the "not interested" group?

[northsidegal]

Basically, that list was who I think could get lynched even with how little time we have left. I’m focusing on Dunn right now because I scum read him and I recall a few people grouping him with my slot so there seems that there is actual interest there.

why did you frame it as "who i'm interested in" if it's actually "who i think is likely to get lynched today"? even more, why place espeonage and jord in the "unlikely to be lynched" category and havo, katy and keychain in the "possible lynches" one?

i'm sorry if these questions seem pointless, i'm just trying to understand what you're saying.

[northsidegal]

I actually don’t know what North wants to argue with me about.

i'm not trying to argue, i'm trying to understand what you were trying to convey.

i had a lot more typed up but it's probably not worth talking about.

[northsidegal]

Northsidegirl without this being a confrontation, can you go back and look at where you're saying I voted a popular wagon, you see that the guy unvotes and says it's town right? (I didn't even read that but whatever, the actions in thread don't match up with what you're pushing)

Why did you leave the stuff I quoted out when you presented your stuff?

one person voted elsewhere and said that the wagon is town, but i don't really see how that changes things very much or takes away from what i was saying. i missed that the first time i was reading through, though.

the feeling i get from reading schadd's iso is that he seems to take for granted that some people are town. whereas he's commented on his townread on keychain given that the topic of keychain being scum was brought up, it seems to me like without any discussion or at least visible reasoning he's accepted transcend, zach and katayusha as being town. this could just as easily come from familiarity with the players as it could from already knowing everyone's alignment and only commenting on cases that other people bring up (to give the appearance of activity or of deliberation), so i'm not making this as some huge alignment indicative point.

schadd, could say who you townread and explain why?

North, could you explain how you ever vote for Schadd after this post. It sounds like you genuinely believe he’s clueless town.

i'm not sure where you're getting clueless town from in that post - the main takeaway there for me was that schadd was simply treating transcend, zach and katyusha as town. where do you get that i'm voting schadd just because of his playstyle? i like to think i'm pretty good about not voting people for just playstyle differences, hence my not voting of transcend. like i said, it could just be something meta for why schadd just treats those people as town, but to me it seems like scum attempting to buddy up to some of the more active players and the louder voices in the town.

[northsidegal]

the feeling i get from reading schadd's iso is that

he seems to take for granted that some people are town.

whereas he's commented on his townread on keychain given that the topic of keychain being scum was brought up, it seems to me like

without any discussion or at least visible reasoning he's accepted transcend, zach and katayusha as being town.

,this could just as easily come from familiarity with the players as it could from already knowing everyone's alignment and only commenting on cases that other people bring up (to give the appearance of activity or of deliberation), so i'm not making this as some huge alignment indicative point.

schadd, could say who you townread and explain why?

i guess you and i have different definitions of "clueless town". to me, clueless town is a player who can't or hasn't really formed any reads over their own. it's a really common accusation to say that someone's scum because they're being too wishy washy or they can't take a firm stance on anything, but to me that's always been non-alignment indicative, just as easily coming from town finding it hard to get into the game. someone for no apparent reason just accepting someone else as town doesn't seem clueless to me, it seems informed.

Why is buddying AI? Why can’t town buddy in order to work with people they think are town?

my whole argument is that the "people they think are town" part of what you just said is entirely fabricated. schadd hasn't given the appearance of any reason to believe that those people are town. he's not buddying to work with the people he thinks are town, he's buddying to avoid suspicion from the people he

knows

are town, and who also happen to be loud voices, either in terms of post number or in terms of casing.

[northsidegal]

Clueless town can mean those things but also can mean town who often blindly trust the information that is being presented to them. I thought that is what you were getting at, North.

So because Schadd has not explained his town reads, you think they’re not real. I don’t understand how you can reach that conclusion if he’s not offered an explanation for those reads yet. Also, how does fabricating town reads without offering any explanation for them helps him achieve a scum win-con? All that does is bring an unnecessary amount of attention to himself and doesn’t help him control the game state at all. The opposite of what you believe he is doing, which is buddying to avoid suspicion.

it's not just that he hasn't explained them, it's that they appear to come from nowhere and never once does he show signs of doubt. him not explaining his reads or showing signs of doubt isn't the problem, it's an indicaton of the problem, to me. i've already said why i think it comes from scum - he's playing to avoid confrontation with the most active players. it's not necessarily that's hes fabricating town reads, it's that he's playing in a style that assumes people are town - the townreads are implicit. it's not like he had made a list at that point with those people at the top and that's what i'm suspecting (until i asked him about it), it's that he's playing as if he had.

i don't think that brings attention to himself - nobody else had pointed it out until i had. i think very infrequently do townies question townreads on themselves, unless there's something really suspicious about the contexts (ie tring a person who hasn't posted yet). especially if the townreads are never explicitly said, only implied through playstyle, it's such a sure thing to someone who's town that they might not stop to consider it.

I think your problem with Schadd is that he’s not showing any paranoia. Meaning, there is no fear or suspicion displayed in regards to the players he feels are town. There’s no doubt and that worries you. If so, that’s a fair reason to scum read someone but I find a lack of paranoia is a personality trait.

it's certainly possible - like i said, it could always just be a meta thing. it's a little unfortunate that schadd's been missing because the explanations were what i was really looking for, but based on the play so far i'm still willing to lynch there.

[northsidegal]

Yep if everyone else gets their vanity wagon I'm gonna get mine.

Vote: Havo

Havo has been acting very paranoid in these recent pages and hasn't contributed much since he got town read from many of the players. Uzi has gained some points with me for not breaking down and voting schadd out of self-preservation. Let's see where this wagon goes.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Havo

why are you voting a player whose contributions were in the beginning of the thread as opposed to someone without much contribution at all, like dunnstral?

i really don't understand the motivations for this vote. we're really at the point in the day where you can't wagon people as a reaction test or "to see where this goes" - you're wagoning people to be the lynch for the day. i don't like havo for today.

[northsidegal]

someone who's inactive on site and comes in to play while theyre being wagoned isnt motivated by anything and

his spew was obviously town

where does this come from?

[northsidegal]

okay, i'm willing to do this.
VOTE: espeo

if there's something i've misinterpreted on my schadd read then i should be able to determine that tomorrow. today, however, espeo hasn't really done anything to make me question my read.

[northsidegal]

Does this still bother you NSG?

yes?

[northsidegal]

Northsidegirl without this being a confrontation, can you go back and look at where you're saying I voted a popular wagon, you see that the guy unvotes and says it's town right? (I didn't even read that but whatever, the actions in thread don't match up with what you're pushing)

Why did you leave the stuff I quoted out when you presented your stuff?

one person voted elsewhere and said that the wagon is town, but i don't really see how that changes things very much or takes away from what i was saying. i missed that the first time i was reading through, though.

You're saying I voted the popular wagon, there was only 1 other person voting that wagon, so yeah what you're saying doesn't make sense at all, you continuing to push me on that after being proven wrong is gross


@Zach You can't even read me when I post normally, so...

it's not just you following the wagon that i was saying, it was the general consensus that i said you were following. the general consensus on that page was a joda scumread - like i'm pretty sure i said before, one person unvoting doesn't really change a lot.

[northsidegal]

Does this still bother you NSG?

yes?

Ok. That’s it? Nothing else? You never figured it out?

i'm not really sure what you're implying, nor do i know what i'm apparently missing when looking at that post.

[northsidegal]

i'm here. honestly surprised at the zach flip. i'm thinking dunnstral is the last scum. here's something of note from the end of the day yesterday:

so are you gonna claim espe..............................................................


wtf? this game

I think the not claiming with 8< hours left is worse than the quickhammer

unless you're saying that bc you're implying people need to save you you realize we have plur right

we dont need a full 7 votes for lynching

I want to be able to be around if I need to defend myself or claim.

claim now or you will be the only viable lynch with our time

do we know if scum have daychat? seems to me like there might've been a plan for espeo to fakeclaim and to transition onto schadd as the lynch.
VOTE: dunnstral

[northsidegal]

i think dunn being scum would also explain why zach was pushing ee as a lurker lynch over dunn before i said anything about it.

[northsidegal]

VOTE: schadd

hm

this vote came from after i gave pressure to espeo

i think schadd and espeo were still dueling at that point too

ftr Espeo and Schadd are both dueling at L-3 if my count is correct - espeo has plur

trans and wavemode if you could weigh in on your thoughts on these two wagons that'd be appreciated

okay, i'm willing to do this.
VOTE: espeo

if there's something i've misinterpreted on my schadd read then i should be able to determine that tomorrow. today, however, espeo hasn't really done anything to make me question my read.

[northsidegal]

Zach was pushing me...

zach was pushing you at the end of the day yesterday when there was almost no chance that a lynch wagon would form on you. before i mentioned anything about you it was ee over you. after i did, it was "ee and dunn are at the same level for me", but i'm pretty sure the vote or the case never followed until the end of the day.

[northsidegal]

does someone want to explain why i'm being voted here? i understand that this game has been largely poe'd down but i'm not understanding where the wagon on me is coming from.

VOTE: North

L1

It is joda btw but feel free to ignore the best player to play mafia ever that nailed two mafia d1 and lynch a townie

why are you voting me if you think i'm town?

[northsidegal]

there's no need to give up or do something counterproductive - we're not even one day into day two, and joda has barely said anything today.

[northsidegal]

you were already voting me screen. not faking a reaction here, for what it's worth.

[northsidegal]

you were also already voting me transc, but i'm still not scum.

[northsidegal]

could one of you guys who thinks that i'm town or at least does not want the day to end unvote, please?

[northsidegal]

No claim from NSG and no real sense of urgency so I was going to
Drop the hammer.

wouldn't you think i'd be more likely to show signs of urgency if i were the last scum alive?

i'm still not understanding why i'm being voted at all. like, we seem to have reduced our lynchpool down to a few people but it seems like i've just been chosen randomly out of that group.

[northsidegal]

like are you saying we should lynch you last instead of first!

i don't think you should lynch me at all but yes, in a sense. like, i recognize that we've narrowed the game down to a group of people and i'm okay with being in that group of people, but i'm still not okay with my own lynch.

[northsidegal]

like are you saying we should lynch you last instead of first!

i don't think you should lynch me at all but yes, in a sense. like, i recognize that we've narrowed the game down to a group of people and i'm okay with being in that group of people, but i'm still not okay with my own lynch.

Ok, name a better Lynch than you and give us reasons for it.

i have - that's what i did on my first post today. i'd also like to do a bit of review to look at joda and to see how that plays out today. i don't like how you're placing the onus on me to provide a better lynch than myself when you haven't given any reason that i should be the lynch - why am i the default?

[northsidegal]

ok i was expecting to make a full on case but it's not really working for me

I think what bothers me most about Northsidegal here though is the chain of events at pages 32-33

her espeo vote in 778 is really short lived. basically as soon as i give it traction in 802 and the votecount in 808, she soft defends espeo in 822 and naked votes schadd which at that point was a less viable wagon than espeo

my "soft-defending" was just me trying to be objective - i still scumread espeo but it didn't seem to me like he was lying, it seemed like something he had actually mixed up. i did almost the same thing in 743 and 749 - i scumread espeo but i'd still point out accusations that didn't really make sense to me.

while she did clearly scumread schadd, im not seeing what was worth moving off of espeo when the wagon was just becoming viable. the most obvious explanation here is that she didn't want to actually commit to a bus at that stage until it was inevitable (i.e. when she voted espeo later) and I'm hardpressed to come up with another. Plus me following her vote after stating that I could lynch schadd from the lurkers also was a really obvious outcome that she could have been trying to manipulate. NSG can you talk to me about your thought process here?

i honestly don't remember at all why i voted schadd there. i know this seems like a cop out, but i really have no idea. i don't usually naked vote people and the three hour time gap between that and my next posts makes me thing i might have been rushing and didn't read the thread all that clearly. i also doubt that i considered you following my vote - that's something i almost never take into consideration. if i had to guess as to why i switched my vote i'd say i wanted some pressure on schadd for when he came back to the thread. to say something a little more concrete to say in my defense, i switched back onto espeo at a time when the wagons were still tied.

[northsidegal]

by the way, go town!

[northsidegal]

good job town, well played everyone!

[northsidegal]

i'd like to say that i had the scumteam totally pegged this game, but i don't think i would have scumread zach any time soon. that was a nice shot, katyusha. two out of three isn't bad, though - plus, i think i was right about the non-daychat claiming request thing.

[northsidegal]

you don't have to apologize - like i said day two, i realized that me dying would be important in narrowing down the pool.

thanks!