Mini Normal 1988 (Endgame)

[Archwing]

VOTE: Two in a million

How dare you imply rvs is overrated!

[Archwing]

Foiled again!
VOTE: bujaber
Serious vote. Sheep me on this.

[Archwing]

no no. thats not how sheeping works

[Archwing]

Real friends sheep their friends.

[Archwing]

Sheeping is baaaaaaaaaaad

[Archwing]

feeling early town leans on nero and seph. everyone else is null right now

[Archwing]

feeling early town leans on nero and seph. everyone else is null right now

go on

90 is good imo. I like your "i've seen town do this" =/= 'this is town'. I see that fallacy a lot. General inquisitiveness. pushing a lot of different options.. generally townie. still townie, so I still stand by town lean.

Seph had town vibes. After re-reading iso though, I put seph to null. no more town.

[Archwing]

Best entrance I've seen on MS, Prism. Thanks.

not really liking the buddying here. And from earlier I didn't like your 59

@Prism

Roy is an alt.

They're different. You're a town read. Prism is currently in my scum pool. If you want compare it with my friendly banter with Roy. I like him also but he's in my scum pool too. A lot of this is banking on Lalendra being scum. My first few games on here have taught me to trust my first instincts a lot more.

Start re-evaluating now

because if I get mislynched

you're going to have to do it anyway

LAMIST

[Archwing]

Seph had town vibes. After re-reading iso though, I put seph to null. no more town.

What changed?

Just like in this comment, you seem to be pretty self-aware of your presence in the game. I think you came in strong, which I town-leaned initially. But I think that's exactly what you wanted. I think that scum have an easier time establishing a presence early day 1, and if done right, you can benefit from that late game.

Real friends sheep their friends.

No they don't, I want to see real content from you.

no u

[Archwing]

123 could be lamist but it could also be not so yeah let's not have this be too big of an argument tbh. Even town says stupid crap sometimes.

let your scumbuddy defend themselves plz.

[Archwing]

123 could be lamist but it could also be not so yeah let's not have this be too big of an argument tbh. Even town says stupid crap sometimes.

let your scumbuddy defend themselves plz.

Seph defended me too, any reason why you felt it necessary to respond to Roy but not to Seph?

129 was not the same as 136 at all. 129 is kinda lol-meta shit. 136 was like... "hey, shh. sweep it under the rug"

[Archwing]

hopefully catching up in a few hours

incoming moz wall

[Archwing]

Prism Roy is an alt.

Who is his main?

HeWhoSwims... he main slipped either this page or last page lol.

[Archwing]

EBWOP: 6 posts before you made that post.

[Archwing]

VOTE: TIAM

[Archwing]

Definitely not down for a Seph lynch right now..

iirc Prism was pinging me end of d1, i wanna look at that

[Archwing]

also iirc luca was 1v1-ing chumba pretty hard while pushing the tiam lynch. think maybe theres something to go on there.

[Archwing]

VOTE: Prism

[Archwing]

Should probably elaborate on why I think Chumba is more likely to be scum given Lucaflip: Chumba is about as likely of a lynch while being in my opinion noticeably more competent.

This was ambiguous and I should be more explicit. To clarify, I think Luca was nightkilled for basically being town, active, competent, and not a likely lynch target. Chumba I think fits this criteria better. In general though evaluations of things like competency/lynch likelihood vary so this isn't very reliable.

Before I go and make my case to respond to your question, just wanted to comment on that I think this is shit. Luca fit that description much more than Chumba.

[Archwing]

Chances are there's scum in Chumba/Luca/Nero/Moz despite their eagerness for the game and active participation, reason they're in the not lynch pile is because they can be sorted later and are going to be serious assets if they're town. Burning them early is a waste.

Luca flipped green. Still stand by this? 1/3 scum? 2/3? where do you stand now? IMO, townread nero and Moz, null on chumba.

Will check in in about 7 hours and hammer if no one else has done so.

So earlier you said you didn't want to lynch TIAM. Then you declare intent. Pinged me.

if you think that than you clearly aren't reading. Like besides Leeoon, Archwing and Golden everyone else seems to be playing and contributing.

Like I get that you are scum that's trying to make the crux of make case on you invalid but your not scumhunting and that's always going to land a player on the scummy side of the spectrum.

Your repeated "there's not much to talk about" is just a front for you to do shit all this game. I'm lynching you.

Bolded here is disgusting. Phrases like "I get that you're scum but you have to realize/do you see/understand" bother the shit out of me. Trying to get the scum to "see reason" is nonsensical.

Phrases like this are simultaneously shoving your scumread while trying to convince

them

of the validity of your viewpoint. I hate it.

Sorry I haven't been that active yet but I am playing in 3 games plus 3 mish mash games and

not much has happened yet

.

This is a stall post. I don't really like his excuse that he's in a bunch of others and can't contribute. The bolded is either scum that's actually not reading the thread or scum thats using this as an excuse to not participate.

Stallpost, sure, but don't act like you don't see this from town. A bit has happened but it's not like anyone's gotten into hard 1v1s or deathtunnels. Everyone has been uncertain and testing the waters, outside of maybe Luca on TIAM.

I again despise the reactions to Two's VT claim as being "needs death" and "claims scum" (Latter coming from Golden).

This throwaway read on Golden is terrible, comes out of nowhere, and I see no reason for it in your ISO. I would not at all be surprised if this was you+Golden.

This I kinda read as a way to build Towncred, knowing TIAM would flip green, since it was pretty obvious by this point (after you declared intent...) that TIAM was going to get lynched.

but I know I am green from my role pm.

VOTE: TwoInAMillion

Scummy, OMGUSy and opportunistic vote. Please unvote me.

Shit like this isn't going to work, you have to actually do something and be proactive.

No town cares if you think they're scummy and will not be intimidated into unvoting. No town wants to work around you refusing to do anything. I don't think you're scum for lack of content and want other people but that's more out of a gift from God. Stop trying to halfass it and shame people for not being able to work around you being deadweight.

More towncred building.

VOTE: Golden

Someone, anyone, help. The chance of this getting traction in time is slim but for the love of god derail this, please help.

And more.

Well there's hardly time to do much today. I will be more active tomorrow if you spare me.

What do you think of me trying to save you? What do you think of Nero's assertion of you/Golden distancing? In particular, what I'm asking is how legitimate you think these reads and viewpoints are.

No one is going to spare you because you ask for it.

And again. I read this chain of events in live-time like that. The more I read what you were saying, the more I believed that Two was flipping green.

Oh, also, I didn't want to hammer TIAM: I said that statement to buy more time for people to reconsider. If I wanted to hammer him, I would have just done it. Agreeing to hammer to avoid a no lynch is different from wanting to do so.

This is a fair point though. I see this from a town pov. I suppose for now
UNVOTE:
because I'm not as convinced as when I did my re-read earlier today.

[Archwing]

also iirc luca was 1v1-ing chumba pretty hard

This isn’t true at all. But I already scum read you so I’m not surprised.

How was this not true? you and luca took up a whole page.

[Archwing]

page 12.

[Archwing]

The problem is there are so many inactive and suspect players this game. The only reason I'm not voting Chumba is because I believe a TIAM lynch is the better option for D1
The only two I townread at the moment are Nero and Moz, and even that's at a stretch.

I think based off of these 2 sentences alone,

very temporarily

towncleared nero and moz, and sus'd chumba.

[Archwing]

Maybe not explicitly 1v1, in the sense you wanted eachothers heads, but enough that Luca wanted you dead (see my last post) but TIAM was the better lynch;
in other words, you were the d2 lynch for Luca. So you killed him instead.

[Archwing]

Re: towncred, it might help to read my first paragraph of #331 as well as my post to Nero. I can be scum WIFOMing or change how I knew people were about to read me, but the point is that I saw this very line of attack coming if TIAM were town. I pushed it anyway.

You mentioned you did a reread earlier. Did you come away with anything else?

I read that paragraph a few times TBH. I was never really sold on the intention behind it. And the fact that you had that in your pocket, ready to defend the town-cred attack, makes me suspicious, as if you had the next 5 steps planned out, like scum should do.

Yeah, I did a re-read on the last half of D1 while I was on the bus, so it was a bit disjointed. I was semi-planning a case on Luca, and then... this lol. So that went out the window. Next was what I summarized about you, and lastly was a suspicion on Chumba based on the luca interactions (waiting to see who flipped, and luca did, so hence I see chumba as scummy now)

Other than that, I noticed a lot of pushing on Roy, and I couldn't get behind that. Paradox was pushed for lurking, but thats how we lost TIAM, so i'm not comfortable with that. I'll come back to not wanting to lynch Seph right now either.

I agree with what you said though about moz needed to explain further his reads, instead of just stating them

[Archwing]

The only reason I'm not voting Chumba is because I believe a TIAM lynch is the better option for D1 -luca

Like... what?

[Archwing]

Thanks for scumclaiming.
VOTE: BuJaber[/b]

Lazy. Try harder next time.

Can we get a vote count? I feel like voting TIAM but at the moment I don't want to detract from this Buj wagon. Interested to see where that one is going.

@Luca Blight

: Request denied.

This may be unpopular with some people but honestly this type of deadline policy could really help the meta on site quite a bit.

I'll have a catch up later today and post what reads I have. Busy at work but I should find some time in a few hours.

Re-reading seph via ISO was actually kinda interesting. Nearing end of d1, it seems like he's kinda content with the way the TIAM wagon is going. Just kinda throwing in posts here and there to be active, especially with his comment about not derailing the Bu wagon too.
So like, he wants to vote TIAM, but also is liking whats going on with the initial bu wagon, so he just kinda sits by idly while making his presence known. And while I agree with what he said there, just kinda seems weird to see it out like that.

unvote, vote: TIAM

Its absolutely absurd to claim that nothing interesting or worth commenting on has happened...

thats -3 I think, in case anyone was wondering.

Then here, to me, he seems pretty self-aware.. claiming l-3 is a bit much, imo, even with 13 active players. almost like a "hey guys... we could get a couple more votes on here"

I dunno. I have a gut feeling hes scum this game.

at first I thought this as being a "too obvious to be scummy" kinda business.... but then you get into wifom... so, meh. If I think over a couple iterations of WIFOM, this could be pretty scum!seph.

I think the following are town: Archwing, Luca, Nero Cain, Chumba, Buj (tentative), lalendra (tentative)

I think the scum will be found in: TIAM, Prism, Roy, paradox, moz, leeon

So I'm happy with my TIAM vote. Especially since TIAM shows no interest in engaging with the game and preclaimed VT.

This was one thing I thought about when I did my re-read.
How the fuck am I a townread here? My d1 was horrible, and I'll be the first to admit it. yeah i flew under the radar, but I shouldn't be that far up, with luca and nero. my first reaction to this was maybe he was trying to buddy me.

[Archwing]

The problem is there are so many inactive and suspect players this game. The only reason I'm not voting Chumba is because I believe a TIAM lynch is the better option for D1
The only two I townread at the moment are Nero and Moz, and even that's at a stretch.

I think based off of these 2 sentences alone,

very temporarily

towncleared nero and moz, and sus'd chumba.

HOLY SHIT!!!

You deleted that statement from his post?

WHY WOULD YOU DO THAT IF UOU WERE TOWN?

You intentionally tried to deceive people.

Here is the complete un-edited post. The bolded is the part arch deleted for some reason. Probably because it didn’t help his agenda of framing me.

The problem is there are so many inactive and suspect players this game. The only reason I'm not voting Chumba is because I believe a TIAM lynch is the better option for D1;

at least Chumba is producing content and can be sorted later, whereas TIAM has been making excuses all day and will most likely continue to do so.

The only two I townread at the moment are Nero and Moz, and even that's at a stretch.

loooool. I shortened it down so that it would be easier to read, I'm not trying to alter history here. Yes, he did say that. I don't deny that whatsoever. HOWEVER, how does that bit after the semicolon take away from the fact that

the only reason he is not voting you

?

[Archwing]

Let’s lynch Roy. If he doesn’t flip scum something screwy is going on and y’all can lynch me tomorrow.

So Roy is 100% scum
Arch bases on recent events is 95% scum

Prism makes sense as partners with both.

Good game everyone. I ain’t even mad if I get lynched today. Just sheep this post after I’m dead.

Why is Roy the best lynch today?

[Archwing]

i honestly disagree, and that I was not trying to be deceiving. It is very easy to look at the quoted post in context, and whenever I see someone quote, and I'm not familiar with the contextual surrounding of it, I always click on it to see what is happening. maybe that's a bit of a bias on my part to assume that other people do that too, and I could learn from that going forward.
in the end, I wanted to get the root of what Luca was saying, which was that if TIAM was not there, he would be voting you. and now he was NK'd. And I really think you're trying to distract from that. first you attack my "1v1" statement, and next you attack my quoting procedure. It's as if you had 2 days of night phase to plan how you were going to defend your night kill.
VOTE: Chumba

pedit; wow great response. i'll just sheep you then?

explain. convince me, otherwise you aren't getting the lynch you want.

[Archwing]

you're right. Roy is scum. wow i'm so convinced now.

[Archwing]

and you've also done a really fine job of defending yourself against 2 claims i've made against you..... by ad hom-ing me.

[Archwing]

You lied about the 1v1 because one never happened and you intentionally deceived people by deleting part of his quote and the only reason I can tell for you doing that was it made your argument of Luca scum reading me weaker.

Let’s just assume you are right though. Let’s say Luca did hard scum read me. That still doesn’t mean I’m scum and killed him. There are many reasons to kill people. You not considering other options isn’t a town mentality

You better have your excuses ready when I flip town because you will look like the scum that you are once that happens.

I've already explained the quoting business. The interactions are there, and I've even stated the page number. It's not confined to page 12, but a bit before and a bit after too.

And I'm not looking elsewhere right now. I'm looking at you. And you keep responding, which is giving me information. Its very early day 2. Keep your mind on your town game, don't worry about mine.

LAMIST.

And instead of responding to my argument, you attacked my character (calling me scummy), which is essentially the definition of an Ad-Hom argument.

pedit; i know what ad hom is, thanks. How about you read back when instead of responding to the claims I made against you, you just called me scum, trying to convince to lynch a scumbuddy. You're trying to defame my character by calling me scum instead of actually attacking the argument itself.

[Archwing]

Let me ask you this; what do you make of the Luca NK. Do you think there is any information to gain from that?
If you think it is {me, Prism, Roy} does it make sense for any one of us to kill Luca..?

[Archwing]

you're welcome.

[Archwing]

That isn’t ad hominem though. I’m not saying you in real life are scummy. I’m saying you in this game are scummy.

... what?

in real life i am human, and belong to no mafia, werewolf, or any other "scum".
Ad-Hom refers to

disregarding, or bypassing

the argument on hand, and discrediting that said argument by "taking a stab" at the person making the argument. this has nothing to do with me being a serial killer in my spare time friend.

nice misrep btw on the town game. maybe if you knew your town game better, you could be more deceptive as scum?

anyways i'm out for the night. i'll catch up in a day or so-ish. i have a midterm on thursday so I likely won't post until after that

pedit;

your arguments

you literally have nothing on me

You seem pretty shaken up that I called you out for adhom, by the way. Like, really agitated.

[Archwing]

I feel like Arch is a more experienced player than I am

Lolno.

[Archwing]

Welcome havingfitz.

are you scum?

UNVOTE: for now to see what you do in Chumba's slot.

[Archwing]

also, i just wanted to comment

(i'm ~2hrs away from writing my midterm, so i probably shouldn't be on here, but i've been reading while I've been studying...)

the way moz sheeped my Seph read, as nero has pointed out, made me feel uneasy. Note to self, is to look into seph/moz interaction there

[Archwing]

VOTE: Moz

yeah I wanna start here

[Archwing]

cool. thanks for showing up

[Archwing]

that is not important at this time

[Archwing]

Sorry guys, I am reading. V/LA Monday night/Tuesday afternoon

papers & midterms. I may have a post or two inbetween.

[Archwing]

In a quick response to (i think Roy asked?) me to clarify my quoting issue;

Yeah, I agree. It's a scummy thing to delete relevant information from a quote. I believe the information that I took out of the quote was relevant to chumba, but not to the rest of town. What I quoted, from Nero I think it was? (again, i'm kinda busy so i'm going off memory atm), was (at the very least my interpretation of what they said) the message they conveyed and what they felt at the time. All I was trying to say by that was that that person (again, nero iirc) was ready to vote for chumba, but didn't ONLY because TIAM was the better lynch.

When i quote to build cases, and that quote has multiple responses and whatnot, I try to not clutter my quote-pyramids and whatnot with unnecessary fluff and stuff. I apologize to anyone who feels wronged by that; I'm honestly just trying to make reading my thoughts easier and more concise.

[Archwing]

hi.. checking in. Why is the wagon shifting to roy right now? Who said they didn't like the moz wagon? why?
i've played 1 or 2 games with moz and watched/read a few others... he's his usual spammy hyperposting self, but gut vibes do not scream town!moz here.

[Archwing]

also yeah that was kinda scummy of lalendra just now

[Archwing]

Feels good to be right. Prism was in fact scum.

Stefan defending the scum being bussed, and therefore indirectly bussing the scum on his wagon who are much more likely to be lynched now. (Leoon/Roy are popular wagons arch not so much).

Stefan(Prism), Arch, Roy/Leoon

justify why prism was scum?

[Archwing]

hi.. checking in. Why is the wagon shifting to roy right now? Who said they didn't like the moz wagon? why?
i've played 1 or 2 games with moz and watched/read a few others... he's his usual spammy hyperposting self, but gut vibes do not scream town!moz here.

and yet i've caught a lot of scum, so maybe stfu?

oh yea including you recently, which explains your animosity lol delayed OMGUS vote much? lol

Please, don't get high off yourself here. I've never said you haven't caught scum before. I'm saying your tone is not the town!moz I've seen. Your reaction is kind of enlightening... You just got EXTREMELY defensive there. Why? Don't want to be the first lynched scum?

I'll respond to others this afternoon, getting ready for school.

[Archwing]

Mulch and Nero tvt

[Archwing]

Can we wagon moz plz

[Archwing]

Mulch wagon is bad

[Archwing]

Counter wagon this ^

[Archwing]

I have gut mulch town vibes. If he flips red then fuck me. My biggest scum lean rn is on moz. Again it's vibey. And the way he is saying that since he thinks I'm town means I should sheep him is bullshit to the highest caliber.

I will not be moving my vote today. And unless something miraculous happens you can bet my first vote tomorrow is going back on him.

[Archwing]

My ideal scenario is we lynch moz and I look at associations based off that. But iunno, gun to my head I think nero, Lalendra, town. I think seph is null, think stef is null. Not sure what to think about Christopher. I can't get into this game yet.

[Archwing]

Can we wagon moz plz

You're not voting moz. Vote right now thanks

[Archwing]

Moz I'm much less confident on and will vote there when I finish catching up if it's prudent

Save yourself 20 mins and vote now

[Archwing]

Tyvm. Seph your turn

[Archwing]

We aren't no lynching. We're lynching moz

[Archwing]

Choo Choo

[Archwing]

I am not scum neither with Archwing nor Moz as you or BuJaber guessed.

who are you scum with then?

[Archwing]

I tryed to explain to Christopher why lynching you is not antitown, even in the worst case scenario that you are town.
I have been polite to you today, really talking to you like you were a newbie. I don't see anythink from you execpt childisness, votehopping (that looks very oportunistic), and play that I would call newbish/VI-stile if coming from town.

you have clearly never seen or played with mulch, have you? do a quick meta dive, entertain yourself

[Archwing]

mulch, i appreciate you hyping me and all, but i'm trying to save you from being lynched. don't be silly.

[Archwing]

changing after what? quote the tsn turning point plz

[Archwing]

stef, listen up. you've been MIA for like 2 years, unless you got alts or something. lots of well known scummers around here now are in your face hyper posters.

don't get me wrong, i'm not saying mulch is conf!town right now... i'm arguing that he's not todays best lynch. This is just the shit that he does. And by reading how you play, I can tell instantly that it clashes with your style. thats fine. but play style is NAI. now, if moz flips green, then i'll re-visit mulch, cause he's been echoing everything i've been trying to push this day.

conversely, if we lynch mulch and he flips red, moz would probably be one of my biggest town leans

[Archwing]

For today, which is for me only a few hours left, try someone else to get your vote. (There was more but pre-edit)

You are saying that is town-Mulch. Others say it is not. I probably haven't got time for rereading Mulch other games before the deadline. We are both tunelling on a certain player now. I know you are tunelling, I know I am not completly logical right now.
I normally try to keep an open mind, but at the moment I am afraid, no talk between you and me is gooing to chance my vote.

(I will concide that I have been away for a long time)

im not conf!town mulch right now, i'm townlean mulch at best. but i'm pretty strongly convinced we have a scum!moz right now. I'm talking to you right now because you have thoughts other people have i'm sure

[Archwing]

and if others read our conversation and be like "oh yeah stef i agree" then read my response and think "oh yeah good point" they may actually go through with lynching moz (the right move today)

you're the only one interacting with me right now that i can produce any meaningful content with. lalendra and mulch are just sheeping what i say and it's kinda irritating

[Archwing]

this is directed mainly at Arch but its for all the people that are calling Moz scum but not Mulch. Mulch fencesat hard on Moz. How can ya'll call Moz scum but not think Mulch is a buddy? When/if Moz flips scum then myself (and anyone looking at associates) are going to want Mulchs head anyways.

i think scum!one = town!other tbh

[Archwing]

I'm down for a moz lynch; not too sure that spot is town, at least Mulch seems sorta townier at this point. Agree that what NC brings up might be a little safety net though. But, Moz would need to flip scum for that first.

I am okay but I am okayer with a Moz lynch. I guess. There's not that much of a difference really

vote moz then

[Archwing]

Moz, if you're town, you'd start making cases right now I'm why who is scum. You arent doing that. Also, your 903 is the worst post I've ever seen on ms. You whine about OMGUSing and whatnot, but you can't even claim, and report with that bullshit? And you call me a kid

[Archwing]

Yeah no twilight reads please

[Archwing]

Giving information going into night phase, typically more advantageous to scum than town..

How have you not been introduced to this Nero?

[Archwing]

Yay! Gj town.

Mulch/Roy guilty really helped put this game away

[Archwing]

Moz Sorry for the death tunnel

[Archwing]

Normal reviewers (i think) are trying to counter the high scum win rates lately. (again, speculation) this either means loading on town power or reducing scum power. I think the only "true" guilty in the setup actually managed to happen here. and then there was a day 5 mod confirmed town, which is kinda not much power at all. I think this game could have gone differently had that guilty not happened.

Also, I'm sure there was some paranoia in the scumteam thinking there was either an SK or second scum team.

[Archwing]

I don't think that Moz would have been lynched, if she had claimed

day # ic (especially, later, like day 5) is a pretty safe fake-claim for scum to make. like, they can claim that and be like "oh wait til day 5, i'll be conftown!" but honestly, what are the odds that we even make it to d5? pretty unlikely. in fact, had moz claimed that, I probably would've tunneled even HARDER, cause that role seems absurd to me.

like, it's ALMOST negative town utility, if they decide to claim. i think vt is even a safer claim