Mini 2127 - Fairly Special [Game Over]

[Chronos]

I was actually going to vote for the hydra, but I saw Ank's profile pic in there + didn't want her to think I have a vendetta against her from TM20.

I picked BSG bcz I don't know what it stands for.

VOTE: EspressoPatronum

[Chronos]

No way a civilian thinks that much about his entrance and an rvs vote yada yada yeeeeee

[Chronos]

It’s the towniest one I found in the “charisma” drawer, I’ll make sure to renew it with better ones

[Chronos]

Just for the record, you’re not fine with the entrance itself or with the vote?

[Chronos]

I have no idea who that is, but rest assured, if it was someone you didn’t like, they’re not in the game.

Mastina, what do you think of the post I quoted? On EP.

[Chronos]

Just for the record, you’re not fine with the entrance itself or with the vote?

Moreso the intense confidence you brought to it.

You don't think it's bad?

[Chronos]

I couldn't have been more serious about it

[Chronos]

@Cronos - What do you think of Egix's entrance (48)?

Not feeling anything about it. Nothing sways me one way or the other. Why, did you think it was weird?

I'm having quite the trouble wrapping my head around why you would feel compelled to ignore STRQ's hydra just because you had past experience with them and were wrong on one head of the hydra. Ok, well, this isn't really the issue, but more so why you had a reasoning for not voting them, in...

RVS

.

[Chronos]

UNVOTE:

Also not sure how to even handle Tai’s question. They obviously had no thought about it, why should I? And how does that help them read me? The fact that I haven’t reacted to a post about how someone ended in a game? It wasn’t even their very first post if I remember correctly.

[Chronos]

I no longer think EP’s scum, I tried to gauge out reactions as much as I could.

I do have some other scum reads though that I plan to keep for myself and will probably lurk for quite a bit and observe from afar.

[Chronos]

They had no thought as in you, not mastina.

[Chronos]

I’m not gonna answer that because STRQ made a logical leap and also framed a loaded question when my gripe with you had never been about you putting no thought in your post. And quite frankly I don’t see what that has to do with mastina.

I do understand why he interpreted it like that, I just rectified my use of pronouns there. “They had no thought about it, so why should I” was addressed towards Taly, I was essentially arguing that I found it weird Taly was holding me accountable for not reacting to mastina (as if there was anything to react to) as a reason for not town reading me / being skeptical about me, which is just silly.

Although, even with the misused pronouns, that’s still a huge logical leap that isn’t explained by miscommunication on my part. I don’t understand even remotely how they jumped from me scum reading you for thinking about stuff that a civ never would to “how does mastina’s post have less thought than EP’s?”

And moreso how they actually placed a vote based on it. Like how is me saying (from their PoV) that I thought mastina had less thought than you in an entry post going to make me more likely to flip wolf?

VOTE: Team STRQ

You flapped your feathers in the wrong places, oh you, beautiful bird.

[Chronos]

I no longer think EP’s scum, I tried to gauge out reactions as much as I could.

I do have some other scum reads though that I plan to keep for myself and will probably lurk for quite a bit and observe from afar.

But we're just warming up. Why lurk now?

I'm also interested to hear your response to Tai's question re: your interpretation of mastina's opening post. Do you think it was towny?

Every vote that you see on me and post that talks about my vote / people avoiding you, etc.

I did miss your question, I kind of zooted over mastina’s post. Didn’t leave me with anything really.

[Chronos]

@Chronos That's too defensive for my tastes.

When you were pushing me for my BSG vote reasoning, I worked with you to explain everything. By my reading, STQR was asking you to do something similar in explaining your reasoning. Instead of working through the questions, you got evasive and went on the attack.

I also dislike the timing of your intent to lurk, and you either missed or ignored my question at 86

VOTE: Chronos

It’s 12:30 AM. I am replying to this to remind myself to make a timeline of the events and stuff.

[Chronos]

Let's begin.

-I mean, I can kind of see Chronos' point but what about mastina's text in 12? That was a pretty thoughtful opener, too.

Let's be clear here, this was not a question. It's not addressed towards ME, it's SHADE. If you can't get the distinction right, then that's on you.

Off first glance, most definitive townvibe I've accrued from this post-chain.

Ok, this is where I initially got gut pinged and perhaps why people thought I jumped too fast. It was actually building from the get-go. I construed this post as saying that I am town, not ali, because there was no chain of posts from Ali.

Now, if you put this into contrast with STRQ's shade, it makes no sense, it's literally looking to provide useless content for the purpose of solving. -> this is what was going through my mind when i thought strq was town reading me AND NOT ALI.

Imagine you're Tai for a second. You town read someone (me), argue that it was a townie entrance.

Now, WHY would you, a person that's town reading someone, ask the first question that I've quoted? What's the purpose? Assuming you already town read someone, that's just something silly to point out, especially if you YOURSELF don't lean any particular way. Like, if you actually take a minute to think this through, there's no reason to ask that question to a town read unless : You want them to consolidate with you on something that they've came across as scummy / alignment indicative to yourself - WHICH TAI NEVER REACTED TO IN ANY WAY, BUT HE ASKS THE QUESTION AS IF THERE WAS SOMETHING ALIGNMENT INDICATIVE IN THE POST.

I had a weird thought about the STRQ and mastina dynamic and I initially scum read them both, although I wanted to keep quiet about it, because if I'm right, now they are going to be more weary and also it's easier for them to shut me down early in the game when people don't have the amount of evidence that they would want in order to solidify on a scum read, but since I'm being poked by EP and what I presume to be other people, there you have it.

If there was something wrong with mastina's post, WHY NOT POINT IT OUT YOURSELF? Why the particular interest on mastina? There's literally 11 other people apart from me and STRQ. And Tai placed a vote on me that is essentially saying "there is something wrong with mastina's post, how come are you so fishy around it?".

In hindsight, the town lean was actually on Ali (I think) but I construed it to be on me, which is why set this click in my brain.


^ THIS IS ALL INVALID TO SCUM READING STRQ, IT JUST EXPLAINS WHY I REACTED THE WAY I DID AND HOW I CONSTRUED THEIR ACTIONS WHICH LEAD ME TO THE SUDDEN ATTACK.

Now, below this line, there will be the ACTUAL reasoning for why the bird is a menacing creature.

Look at my post for a bit, soak the main idea in, grasp what I'm trying to say and run around with it for a bit :

UNVOTE:

Also not sure how to even handle Tai’s question. They obviously had no thought about it, why should I? And how does that help them read me? The fact that I haven’t reacted to a post about how someone ended in a game? It wasn’t even their very first post if I remember correctly.

Now, look at this post by Tai :

UNVOTE:

Also not sure how to even handle Tai’s question. They obviously had no thought about it, why should I? And how does that help them read me? The fact that I haven’t reacted to a post about how someone ended in a game? It wasn’t even their very first post if I remember correctly.

Clarify a few things:

You mean this question I posed?

-I mean, I can kind of see

Chronos'

point but what about

mastina's

text in 12? That was a pretty thoughtful opener, too.

If so, how does

Mastina

have less thought in 12 than

Espresso's

in 24?

I'm asking because this DOES help me read your thought process when you post by the nuances of how you interact with others, so I can determine alignment by motivation rather than painting an action as inherently towny or scummy. It's also part of reaction gauging.

So I can relate to your 80

-Tai

Now, I want you to pay attention to what I'm about to say next. My post was merely saying "I don't really know how or

why

you expect me to have something on mastina when you yourself have no thought about it"

Tai immediately makes this a "How does Mastina have less thought than EP's intro?"

I NEVER EVEN SAID SHE HAD LESS THOUGHT. I was stating mastina's post left no impression on me.

Which is why, this post occurred :

I’m not gonna answer that because STRQ made a logical leap and also framed a loaded question when my gripe with you had never been about you putting no thought in your post. And quite frankly I don’t see what that has to do with mastina.

Now, I know the vote was someone else from the hydra (I only noticed it now), but even neglecting that, THIS LINE OF QUESTIONING DOESN'T REACH A POINT WHERE YOU CAN DISCERN SOMEONE'S ALIGNMENT.

For all purposes, I'm about to enter and argue from STRQ'S narrative, which is both wrong and stupid, because they have created false statements that I've never even came close to implying. So, for the sake of the argument, I will reiterate their narrative, which is this "How can you say Mastina has less thought than EP?". For the sake of my monologue debate thing, we'll assume STRQ is a town here.

So, you guys step in Tai's shoes for a second. Would you think that this line of questioning ever catches a wolf? Seriously, how is me even stating I thought mastina had less thought than EP (WHICH I NEVER DID, ONCE AGAIN) even alignment indicative for any of us. If you were town and thought someone was scum, would you think they'd flip wolf just because they thought someone had less thought in their post than someone else?

This is just a shade, STRQ has no interest on discerning my alignment, they've done nothing but misinterpret my points, they've clearly haven't read my posts, they jumped the gun on a post of mine which might've come across as scummy just because of how I handled their slot and they wanted to keep painting me scummy for trivial things, thinking that they caught the mislynch bait for the day. Insert another coin and try again.

===========

Also, regarding Adorable, I think that their intro post makes a lot of sense and it is vote worthy (on mastina), so mastina and strq jumping the gun on them when they should know what a newbtown looks like is concerning. These two slots have done nothing but looking for mislynch bait today, yet alone sort someone.

===========

For the moment I think mastina and STRQ are both scum but if I'm right I might've just blew my chance at getting them lynched.

STRQ's mastina post is like TMIng them scum while pushing me for not scum reading their entry, even though STRQ has no thought on it. That's why I scum read them both. He most likely knows mastina is scum, thus, her entry post couldn't have came from a town in their mind, which is why they're tying this whole thing to me and making a big deal out of me not acknowledging mastina's entry, which provoked the sudden logical leap in order to paint me scum with them.

Their line of questioning doesn't make someone flip wolf, it just makes them look like one. And of course they don't give to craps about it and move on, because the goal overall was to tie me to a mastina!scum flip and paint me as their buddy.

[Chronos]

Chronos, your post 122 is very long, so I won't bother to quote.
I agree with your first half of the post. The points seem to flow logically and does seem to be a simple misunderstanding in regards to you thinking that STRQ was
saying that they TR you instead of me, and your follow up reactions all seem very genuine to me, so I'm going to wait for STRQ to reply.

However I am struggling to understand the second half of your post regarding Adorable, and the last part where you said "just blew my chance at getting them lynched."

I am town reading Adorable and I question the votes on her.

People will need more than this to get STRQ and mastina lynched if I'm right on them, and if they're scum, now they are a lot more weary about how they interact with each other, because up to this point, if they were scum, they were messing around and not giving much of a fuck.

[Chronos]

I just gave the rational justification, that's what the whole post was about.

I have also explained why you are scum for making logical leaps, which has no bearing on mastina's alignment, that's an aside.

My read on you has nothing to do with mastina, but I expect her to react to this somehow and also explain how you're locktown.

My read was more based on you jumping the gun in an attempt to make me look shady and pressing a line of questioning that never catches a wolf. You didn't even read my posts.

[Chronos]

@Titus, I also don't understand how you scum read EP but not Yume.

-Raven

Yume didn't vote BP then not stick around and act like he never existed. I'm assuming Yume is Adorable here.

No, I'm yume apparently. Adorable is adorable.

[Chronos]

Yume's interactions with EP are so cliche that there's a word for it in Japanese anime, commonly used for girls who have a crush on guys they refuse to admit to.

She also seems to take her nervousness and play it off by unleashing it in a completely different (and OMGUS-y, from her perspective) direction.

-Raven.

I'll probably need a whole ass strategy to take you guys out.

Chronos, you've grossly misunderstood and it's really not worth anyone's time to attempt to maintain communications with you until you re-evaluate.

Tell me where I'm misunderstanding this :

UNVOTE:

Also not sure how to even handle Tai’s question.

They obviously had no thought about it, why should I? And how does that help them read me? The fact that I haven’t reacted to a post about how someone ended in a game? It wasn’t even their very first post if I remember correctly.

- I have no scum read of mastina, I'm wondering why you'd ask me that when you had no thought about it

If so,

how does Mastina have less thought

in 12 than Espresso's in 24?

How about one of you explain the grossly misinterpretation that

I

have made. If it's so gross, then it must be painfully obvious what you wanted to ask me, right?

I've done nothing to misinterpret your points, stop acting like I did, or you're only going to get me more tunneled. Enlighten me, where have I blatantly misinterpreted your points and where DID YOU NOT misinterpret MINE?

[Chronos]

Yume's interactions with EP are so cliche that there's a word for it in Japanese anime, commonly used for girls who have a crush on guys they refuse to admit to.

She also seems to take her nervousness and play it off by unleashing it in a completely different (and OMGUS-y, from her perspective) direction.

-Raven.

I'll probably need a whole ass strategy to take you guys out.

Chronos, you've grossly misunderstood and it's really not worth anyone's time to attempt to maintain communications with you until you re-evaluate.

Tell me where I'm misunderstanding this :

UNVOTE:

Also not sure how to even handle Tai’s question.

They obviously had no thought about it, why should I? And how does that help them read me? The fact that I haven’t reacted to a post about how someone ended in a game? It wasn’t even their very first post if I remember correctly.

- I have no scum read of mastina, I'm wondering why you'd ask me that when you had no thought about it

If so,

how does Mastina have less thought

in 12 than Espresso's in 24?

How about one of you explain the grossly misinterpretation that

I

have made. If it's so gross, then it must be painfully obvious what you wanted to ask me, right?

I've done nothing to misinterpret your points, stop acting like I did, or you're only going to get me more tunneled. Enlighten me, where have I blatantly misinterpreted your points and where DID YOU NOT misinterpret MINE?

Tai

Simple question that takes 5 minutes to answer. If you’re town, the answer would help me discern your alignment and it would make it easier for us to communicate. Stop acting like you have the high ground, come down from your little pedestal and explain yourself to fellow mortals that are beneath you. Dumb or not, we will be the reason for your down fall and if you can’t dedicate 3 minutes of your time to explain to me where I’m wrong when you keep calling me wrong and misinterpreting everything IS NOT a good look because I’ll keep on tunneling you til you die.

I don’t care which head replies to this, it should be you since you were the one to claim I misinterpreted your posts.

If you’re town, from my PoV, you AtEing and making me the bad guy solves nothing for you, because if you admit to being mistaken you are scum claiming, so you wiggling your way out of this interaction is a horrible look.

Continue doing this and at some point nobody’s going to be willing to work with you.

[Chronos]

I'm aware that you're new to the game, but for a heads up, flinging shit in our general direction isn't typically a good way to get people to stop scum reading you or even to make other people scum read us.

- Raven

Follow your advice and talk to me.

[Chronos]

Alimdia. What is your strongest read right now?

prob Chronos.

Now that I ISO'ed you, you're pinging me as scum. VOTE: eyestott

This sequence feels... odd.
Alim, would you be willing to say what it was that pinged you about Eyes?

Egix

, why does the sequence feel odd?

[Chronos]

eyestott

-

I really don't think this is a town slot. Weak opener, posed questions that are fluff. Votes are predatory and aren't followed up with any attempt at discerning alignments. Votes me, moves to Adorable, in the same "gotcha" type of voting that is unwarranted. Also, I don't actually believe that eyestott did this :

I’ve chosen my fluff very carefully and seriously.

It's basically saying it wasn't fluff at all, and it all had a purpose for something, which is hard to grasp. Like, what purpose did you have when you asked egix what his favourite avenger was, or if the heads of the hydra were public knowledge?

This

might

be a town slot under weird circumstances which could explain that phrase above, but until then, I think this goes in the "wouldn't care if they got pushed" list.

Egix96

-

Ok, upon a re-view, this looks like a solid slot for scum contenders. Their first vote is actually horrendous. It creates a dichotomy between me and EP, calling both our votes bad.

My gripe with this sentence :

I was actually going to vote for the hydra, but I saw Ank's profile pic in there +

didn't want her to think I have a vendetta against her from TM20.

I picked BSG bcz I don't know what it stands for.

VOTE: EspressoPatronum

No way a civilian thinks that much about his entrance and an rvs vote yada yada yeeeeee

Not a fan of that entrance. VOTE: Chronos

Nah, I think that 24 is clearly worse.

I don't see why Patronum should be so concerned with (highlighted). To me it reads as scum not wanting to stick their foot in it.

VOTE: Patronum

Is that, it's kind of goofy thought process. A wolf, if they were afraid, would most likely not even mention it. I have trouble parsing this as a legit town PoV, if you think they are afraid of a certain push on a slot, wouldn't you think they would just...not do it?

His #136 is mostly done to refute my argument for town reading Adorable, but he brings nothing of value to the table.

I just found it strange that Alim happened to start suspecting the same person who asked him to give a read.

I actually don't buy this, at all. In what world does Egix think, from a town!PoV, that a wolf would turn on the person that they town read? What was so suspicious about it? Eyestott didn't even like, call alimdia out or anything, so why would you find it strange that alimdia started scum leaning eyestott, someone that was town reading alimdia?

A lot of Egix's thoughts don't really make much sense from a town PoV, I feel as though this would be a go-to slot for a cfd or something like that. There's no progression, the reads are mostly made to reflect a certain action that devoid of context is scummy, but there isn't a natural, flowing progression that reaches that spot.

Also, he fits the archetype of scum lurker, they feel as though they need to regain high ground in the thread and stand out, which is what these votes and suspicions are doing. A town lurker would take their time analysing everything, whereas, a scum lurker only has an interest of looking good when coming back to the thread, looking like they're actively contributing despite being gone, because they are thinking they'd look really bad if they've done no hunting or anything.

Definitely a solid vote.

Adorable

-

I definitely would fight against their lynch today, I disagree with the general view and not just because #shine and being contrarian, I actually don't understand where the suspicion is coming from. I feel as though, if Adorable wanted to come out good out of a thunderdome (which I see she's being accused of) she'd mostly focus on arguing with mastina, instead, they expand their hunting towards slots like STRQ also. My mental map of how a wolf would handle this situation is not exactly what Adorable's doing. I feel that her initial vote on mastina made a lot of sense, although you could say it's "weird" because it's their first post or something, it's still kinda... I mean, I would've expected them to make less sense, the vote just makes sense from an uninformed town PoV. If you look from the perspective of "Adorable!wolf wanted to tunnel a high-threat player that's hard to lynch, they know it, they just wanted to get the credit" I feel as though they'd pick a target that's easier to throw shit at? Like, there's really not much about mastina's posts that can be contrived into maintaining a tunnel like that, thus, I think the vote and suspicion are genuine.

Titus

-

I am kind of susceptible to town reading this slot because they are kind of town reading me and shielding me a bit, but not to the point of full-on countering the arguments thrown at me and reading the people that are suspecting me, mainly STRQ. However, I did like her callout on EP, to be honest, EP felt like he hurled himself into a vote on me, it definitely felt rushed, which is why I liked the call-out. Not sure whether I think Titus is right anymore, but I could see the reasoning for calling EP out. I just skimmed down and saw that she did state she doesn't like the hydra. Looking back on her opening vote, it also looks good. Probably would fight against their lynch today.

alimdia

-

Meh, I kind of probably will feel bad for giving this read, but there's a certain sentence in one post that I don't expect scum to make or even focus on. There really isn't much *there* in alimdia's iso for me to feel good about. I'm probably skating on that sentence thing but will most likely come back to this read once I see more contribution. Totally don't want anyone thinking I have good reasons town leaning this slot, but for now, with the content that was provided, I'd probably defend them based on that specific thing, although it's probably bad practice. Would probably fight against their lynch.

[Chronos]

Er Chronos your reasoning for Adorable being 'not wolf' is kinda off. Since it seems like its based off WIFOMing (kinda)

Fair game, it's all anecdotal anyway. Can't really help you with that, I just wanted it to be out there.

There are certainly other slots more worthy of lynching based on their actual content right now, so I'd rather wait in case Adorable is actually town that wanted to make a spectacular entrance and push.

[Chronos]

Ok, truth be told, I'm not that confident in my Adorable read and could be wrong, but I'd just not want them to die today so I have more time sorting them.

[Chronos]

I just gave reads on 5 other players, so no, I am not tunneling.

Also, I accused EP of having overthought his opening, while you accused him of not wanting to stick their foot in.

Where’s the similarity?

[Chronos]

VOTE: Egix96

Takes every cell in my body to move to this but it’s the more rational choice.

STRQ still scum but they’re not getting lynched, at least not today.

[Chronos]

Egix / STRQ / eyestott / mastina

Good slots to look into.

[Chronos]

Regarding the second half. Is your meta/archetype read based on this game alone, or have you played other games with Egix?

The archetype read is data collected over a large number of games, Egix fits the mindset of a scum lurker. I may or may not have played games with Egix, but that isn't really a factor that I'm taking into account much.

I'm doing what is called mindset analysis, mostly how town players think as opposed to scum players, on the premise that town don't have TMI and scum do.

[Chronos]

Like pretty much nothing Chronos tried to say about Egix was true unless you took the most conservatively scummy point of view and assumed that everything he did came from scum, which is a tactic that any player can (and should) use as scum, and often loses town games in LyLo as town players doubt their strongest town read despite their town-oriented actions because "scum can and will do anything."

-Raven

Quoting this for later

[Chronos]

I completely agree with the first half of this.

How?

Egix's post is very obviously not commenting on Chronos' post in the slightest
Your opening post was remarkably self-conscious, and Egix pointed that out. There's nothing scummy about that.
Chronos' content regarding Egix is almost as misrepresentative as her content regarding us. She maintains a constant worried awareness of her actions, which seem to be oriented towards not looking like she is what she feels like she is.

-Raven

This slot still has to point out where I have misrepresented their point of view.

[Chronos]

Er Chronos your reasoning for Adorable being 'not wolf' is kinda off. Since it seems like its based off WIFOMing (kinda)

Fair game, it's all anecdotal anyway. Can't really help you with that, I just wanted it to be out there.

There are certainly other slots more worthy of lynching based on their actual content right now, so I'd rather wait in case Adorable is actually town that wanted to make a spectacular entrance and push.

Ok, truth be told, I'm not that confident in my Adorable read and could be wrong, but I'd just not want them to die today so I have more time sorting them.

idk why but these sequence of posts kinda pings me

Hey look, I'm slightly throwing shade at my town read

Doesn't mean Adorable is off the hook though...

I'm saying I don't necessarily town read the slot but I wouldn't want them lynched today, I want them to keep posting so I can get a better read on them.

[Chronos]

Like pretty much nothing Chronos tried to say about Egix was true unless you took the most conservatively scummy point of view and assumed that everything he did came from scum, which is a tactic that any player can (and should) use as scum, and often loses town games in LyLo as town players doubt their strongest town read despite their town-oriented actions because "scum can and will do anything."

-Raven

<citation needed>

[Chronos]

STRQ's has done nothing of value this game except for discrediting anything I say, WITHOUT ACTUALLY PROVIDING INSTANCES WHERE I HAVE DONE WHAT THEY CLAIMED I HAVE - Misrepresent, misinterpret.

[Chronos]

Ali, can you tell me what you thought I town read you for?

[Chronos]

However, I have a question: do wolves always do logical things?

The point wasn't even that. It's about how town thinks wolves act, not how they actually act, and the read itself is not dependent on what a wolf would be logical or not, but if town!Egix would decide to vote for someone because they didn't want to vote a hydra based on "reads as a wolf not wanting to stick their foot in" without even considering "Why would a wolf even do that, if it's that awkward?" It's his conviction that's unwarranted given the evidence and it has nothing to do with what EP did.

[Chronos]

It sucks.

[Chronos]

Can someone explain to me why Alimdia is being so universally town read?

[Chronos]

I think Egix / Rabid / alimdia are good wagons and think an Adorable wagon here is giving us little to no information.

Best case scenario, Adorable flips scum and mastina is cleared, which we don't really need because she'd likely be a night target anyway. TEAM STRQ again, gobbles stepped it up a bit and want to call it a lean town. That's about it.

If she's town, we just let scum hide onto her wagon without providing much reasoning and on Day 2 it's like we start Day 1 all over again.

[Chronos]

I’m here

[Chronos]

Kind of feeling the same.

[Chronos]

They flip town I think

[Chronos]

VOTE: Egix96