Mini 869 - Frat Party Mafia (GAME OVER!)

[Nachomamma8]

/comfirm

[Nachomamma8]

Vote: CanadianBovine

All the cool kids are doing it.

[Nachomamma8]

There's no wagon on BloodCovenent yet?
But his name is spelled wrong, and he didn't get punished enough for it last game.

vote: BloodCovenent

you are the third vote on me, i believe. GG with the wagons! I'll get it moving then too!

unvote
Vote: BloodCovenent

Finally, this is how I like to see scum play. Giving up as soon as they see me on the player list...

[Nachomamma8]

Finally, this is how I like to see scum play. Giving up as soon as they see me on the player list...

I don't even know you!

Well, you do now.

[Nachomamma8]

So if you're the nacho mamma, how come you're really a dude?

I am not the nacho mamma, or else there would be a 'the' in front of my name. I am nachomamma, so please type my name correctly next time.

[Nachomamma8]

I've recently played with Kise, but that's about it... All of the rest of you are new to me.

[Nachomamma8]

Obviously, the mod is wrong. We have tagged the scum.

[Nachomamma8]

[sarcasm]Yea, you're right, I must be lying to try to get votes off of CB.[/sarcasm]

But you have no need to distance yourself from him... Seems you are a traitor to the town, DRK.

[Nachomamma8]

Unvote:
Vote: nhammen

Very simple solution here. We lynch Nham, and if he flips town, then DRK dies. If he flips scum, then DRK is either town, or scum that is willing to lose his partner in a gambit.

We need more votes on Nham. Anyone that does not vote him will be labeled his scumbuddy.

Why should I follow the advice of a confirmed mafioso?

[Nachomamma8]

show me the confirmation. If you were a day cop, and truly investigated me, then you would not be calling me confirmed scum.

You can look in your own inbox for confirmation.

[Nachomamma8]

Lyncher/Traitor isn't too farfetched, so it's safe to assume those roles could exist in this game.

[Nachomamma8]

Notice I said quicklynch not lynch.

And joking in the sense that he's gonna come back tomorrow all "oh I was clearly just jerking your chain". But yea, if it's not a joke, than Nham is the obvious play.

Lyncher/Traitor are the only roles that where I could see scum pulling a maneuver like this.

Not sure if you guys' normal has roles like that though.

@ first bolded. what are you trying to say here?
@ second bold.

FoS

for suggesting these roles.

Why are you FoSing him for suggesting those two roles? He's simply looking at a possibility, and double-checking that the town is doing the best possible thing in following that line of action. Do you find that anti-town?

[Nachomamma8]

Notice I said quicklynch not lynch.

And joking in the sense that he's gonna come back tomorrow all "oh I was clearly just jerking your chain". But yea, if it's not a joke, than Nham is the obvious play.

Lyncher/Traitor are the only roles that where I could see scum pulling a maneuver like this.

Not sure if you guys' normal has roles like that though.

@ first bolded. what are you trying to say here?
@ second bold.

FoS

for suggesting these roles.

Why are you FoSing him for suggesting those two roles? He's simply looking at a possibility, and double-checking that the town is doing the best possible thing in following that line of action. Do you find that anti-town?

I find that anti-town in the sense that it's

like

giving the implication of a jester. If DRK had truly had a guilty, then Taranski implies that DRK could be a lyncher, or something else, then that attracts the town from the original guilty result, and leads the town to possibly lynch DRK. And it is bad, and very anti-town.

Unvote:
Vote: Taranski

Good answer. I agree with you there.

Unvote

I've been refreshing my watched topics list fairly obsessively since I posted my guilty result on nham. I was hoping to draw this out until more people had a chance to post, but seeing as I'm out of time for now and don't want to leave the thread unattended a minimum of 6.5 hours, I may as well explain myself.

I did not receive a PM telling me nham wasn't town. The RVS was just completely unproductive (and largely due to my pre-game nonsense) and this was my way to try to get us out. I think it's done that quite nicely.

I'll be back tomorrow (well today, technically) with my thoughts on what transpired. For now, I'll just note that, in addition to what we saw in thread, I noticed CB on the online players list in two seperate instances, but he didn't post (and this is the only game he's in).

Why would you want to wait for more people to post if you think the RVS has obviously ended? Why wouldn't you post as soon as your original intent was accomplished?

[Nachomamma8]

How do you know BC wasn't still joking from the RVS?

[Nachomamma8]

Yea nacho is whole argument/case agaisnt me is clearly just all a joke

No idea what you meant by this, or even if you meant to direct it at me.

[Nachomamma8]

If that's the case, then Taranski: do you believe it was all a joke because you can't defend against it?

[Nachomamma8]

The only thing I find scummy about BC is his readiness to believe DRK's claim. I'd like him to explain why he never thought to ask if the claim was real or not, considering how unprobable it was (Mod revealing scumteam in a Mini Normal? Umm... we were still in the RVS?). However, I believe this is far more likely to be the play of a townie who takes the game a little too seriously than a mafioso pushing for a double mislynch.

If he was scum, and Nacho said he was confirmed scum and wasn't joking, the only way that would make sense would be if Nacho was a daycop and investigated him.

I have no idea what BC was trying to accomplish with the day cop comment, but I thought it was pretty obvious I wasn't serious that I knew he was confirmed scum. I was going off Seraphim's earlier RVS post where he has claimed he knew the scumteam, which was also obviously a joke...

DRK's point against CB (being online without posting) is stupid.

Overall, I'll keep my vote on BC until he explains his gullibility a bit.

[Nachomamma8]

I don't see where your finding BC rolefishing, and his push for a quicklynch was the right thing to do if he believed what he did. Why do you believe BC was rolefishing in the first place? What was the scum motive for it? Where, specifically, do you believe that he was doing some anti-town pushing for a quicklynch?

[Nachomamma8]

You can find the answers to both of your questions in the thread and I don't feel like looking back for specific quotes when you could do so just as easily. If you have specific questions about quotes, ask me that instead. I've made my position clear enough that general questions like the ones you asked are just redundant.

Well, obviously you haven't because I've thoroughly read the the thread, and I didn't see legit answers to those two questions. And you don't have to look back in the thread; you just need to answer my questions.

Mighty: 1) He never said we couldn't discuss it. 2) It didn't seem to be a quicklynch.

[Nachomamma8]

I know I haven't been contributing a lot up to this point, but my activity will pick up in a little bit, don't worry.

[Nachomamma8]

Unvote:
Vote: nhammen

Very simple solution here. We lynch Nham, and if he flips town, then DRK dies. If he flips scum, then DRK is either town, or scum that is willing to lose his partner in a gambit.

We need more votes on Nham. Anyone that does not vote him will be labeled his scumbuddy.

Looking back, I really don't like this post. Mainly for this reason...

Vote: canadianbovine

Obv scum. Seriously, if you're not voting him, you're probably his scumbuddy.

At this point, Seraphim was obviously joking. So, using the same wording as someone who was joking when you apparently weren't is extremely suspicious from where I'm sitting. In fact, it warrants an

Unvote, Vote:Blood Covenent

The reason the wording seems so suspicious to me is because it seems like a half-assed scum gambit. As in, he's going to push to get the double mislynch but use this same wording to act like he was joking if people took it the wrong way. People reacted to his response like it was fairly pro-town at first, so there was no need to retract his statement.

And his supposed seriousness continues...

Are we really supposed to believe the mod sent you a message about someone else's alignment? I've never heard of that. This is weird.

Then you have obviously not played enough mafia.

I didn't think whoever said that was serious.

even if he is, not gonna quicklynch someone for such a reason.

Scum partner number 1.

Now, for the big one. If BC wasn't joking in his response, then that means this is some serious rolefishing...

show me the confirmation. If you were a day cop, and truly investigated me, then you would not be calling me confirmed scum.

Alright, what do day cops have to do whatsoever with anything we were talking about? In a serious light, why would you EVER bring this up?

[Nachomamma8]

hmmm, drk, can you confirm that you are being legit and not fuckin around cuz of RVS

dude, quit role fishing.

This post should not be answered, and it is scummy as hell.

This post screams scum to me; it is as if he's trying to stop people from questioning it by making the act of questioning itself scummy; on top of that, it's hypocritical for him to accuse someone of rolefishing when he just got done doing so.

[Nachomamma8]

Nachomamma8

It seems he never quite took the situation too seriously. He made a couple of joking comments (The mod is wrong! We already caught the scum!). What I find most odd is that even after BC went all serious, NM was talking to BC as if it were a joke (which I believe he later accredited to believing BC was joking).

He says in this post that "lyncher/traitor" isn't too farfetched," which seems odd when combined with the fact that he seemed to be taking the whole situation as a joke. If he assumed my claim was a joke, then why would he have any reason to believe lyncher/traitor was plausible? He then accepted BC's explanation of why Tar was scummy for bringing up lyncher/traitor (the reasoning was that if I had been serious about my guilty, bringing up lyncher/traitor could get my lynched instead), which is based entirely on the fact that nham is scum. I find it odd that neither of them realized they were assuming nham was scum. Perhaps nham is scum along with one or both of them and they didn't realize there assumptions? Perhaps they're both scum who didn't have to stop and consider who could be scum and didn't realize they were making an assumption? Both or at least one town, both of whom just didn't realize it? Only time will tell.

Verdict

- Scummy response (second scummiest for response IMO (BC being first)

Taranski's question seemed serious, so I answered it in a serious light. BC's accusation still seemed joking to me, so it received a sarcastic answer. The sarcasm wasn't well shown, I'll admit, but I didn't think we were out of the RVS stage. And what is the purpose of the second half of the analysis? You basically said "Both could be scum, one could be town and the other could be scum, or both could be town. Hmmm...."

[Nachomamma8]

hmmm, drk, can you confirm that you are being legit and not fuckin around cuz of RVS

dude, quit role fishing.

This post should not be answered, and it is scummy as hell.

This post screams scum to me; it is as if he's trying to stop people from questioning it by making the act of questioning itself scummy; on top of that, it's hypocritical for him to accuse someone of rolefishing when he just got done doing so.

No, at the time I didn't want a cop to reveal too much about his role.

Don't you think it's more important for the town to know if a confirmed guilty or not before the lynching begins? And how much would it hurt the town if DRK said "Yes, I'm serious", or "No, I'm not"?

Unvote:
Vote: nhammen

Very simple solution here. We lynch Nham, and if he flips town, then DRK dies. If he flips scum, then DRK is either town, or scum that is willing to lose his partner in a gambit.

We need more votes on Nham. Anyone that does not vote him will be labeled his scumbuddy.

Looking back, I really don't like this post. Mainly for this reason...

Vote: canadianbovine

Obv scum. Seriously, if you're not voting him, you're probably his scumbuddy.

At this point, Seraphim was obviously joking. So, using the same wording as someone who was joking when you apparently weren't is extremely suspicious from where I'm sitting. In fact, it warrants an

Unvote, Vote:Blood Covenent

Nacho, do you see the difference between someone saying XXX is obvscum in the RVS, and someone claiming a guilty result.

...a guilty result in the RVS. Do you see the similarity between your words and Seraphim's?

[Nachomamma8]

I stick with my convictions. I still find it too odd that BC was the only one out of ALL of us who didn't take DRK's thing as a joke.

[Nachomamma8]

I still find it too odd that BC was the only one out of ALL of us who didn't take DRK's thing as a joke.

Sure, odd. Scummy though? It still alludes me why drawing such attention to himself would have been a good scum strategy.

This comment is horrendously scummy in a vacuum. I need to see what the heck is going on when I get a chance to read, but lining up lynches based on a town flip is absolutely scummy.

On this, however, I do agree. It's just the abrasive way he does it that makes me hesitant.

Did I say odd? I meant scummy. The fact that he seriously wanted to orchestrate two lynches based on a post MADE IN THE RVS, and didn't want anyone to know that whether DRK's post was a joke or not, is one that doesn't point to a pro-town BC to me. At all.

[Nachomamma8]

DRK, BC WAS CONVINCED THAT YOU WERE SCUM! WHAT DO YOU HAVE TO SAY TO THAT.

Given that he ended up flipping town, I guess I can see why he would have a biased read on me. Other than that, all I can really say about it is that I'm not scum.

Given that he ended up flipping town? What do you mean by this...?

[Nachomamma8]

DRK:

Obviously, you missed my point completely. I wanted to point out to BC that if he took your first post seriously and actually show that he did, he might want to avoid using the same reasoning as someone before him who was joking. Do you understand that much?

Wait, who used different reasoning on the BC case? One person, maybe two? If you're going to call agreeing with Taran buddying, then you have a few more people on that same wagon to look at.

[Nachomamma8]

@Starbuck: Sorry to hear about your loss.

Nhammen, you can't really judge someone for not answering a question when it wasn't a question because you really didn't directly ask her anything.

Hoopla, you've posted some good analysis and I find yourself agreeing with most of your points right now. However, I haven't been paying as much attention to this game as of late, so I'm going to do an actual reread and get a scumlist in a little while.

[Nachomamma8]

[quote="Nhammen]
I would like to point out that every time I have successfully caught scum, one of the tells they gave off was vote-hopping.
[/quote]

I have had too many players in my games that have voted for me with reasons that they wanted to reveal later. Every one turned out to be scum. It seems to be the surest tell there is.

[Nachomamma8]

Ok, so I had three reasons for my vote:

1. to see who questioned it and who let it slide

2. to see how hoopla would react to it and whether she joined me on the BW

3. whether nhammen would OMGUS me or vote for Kise.

I must say I didn't get too big of a reaction from the first 2, but I got what I wanted from part 3 when he voted for Kise. I figured he'd vote for the other person on my suspicion list if he started to get nervous, or else attack me and OMGUS vote me. I also figured nhammen is too smart to vote me, but I figure it's still possible for him to try and deflect the vote. The reason I think this is because by not placing a reason for my vote, I don't give him any way of shooting it down, thus making him wonder what it is that I got on him.

I'm gonna keep my vote here for now.

So, basically, all you gained is absolutely nothing save for a bigger scum read on someone you were already voting? Your reasoning is faulty and basically incorrect.

Vote: Saberwolf

[Nachomamma8]

let's just lynch saberwolf, please?

[Nachomamma8]

Coming from the guy who want to no-lynch for no apparent reason. You could just ask for an extention, you know.

[Nachomamma8]

if you give me a good reason why i should do so, I will. Gladly.

[Nachomamma8]

Saberwolf's first 5 posts are pure and complete fluff. I will not comment on them because there's no content to comment on.

my opinion on nachomamma is someone who gets by somewhat unnoticed. I have not the slightest who this is without ISOing them, and I realised if I need to ISO them to answer this, then I don't really have a read on them. As for my most pro-town player, I already said I'm keeping this information private. I'm not giving scum NK targets on day 1.

Not truly that scummy, but I found it interesting that he didn't feel like doing an iso on me in order to better his read. After all, if you don't have a read on someone in the game after Day 1, you better figure out why, and if it's from lurking, you better start putting pressure on to stop it.

well I'm not going to answer the first bit, because I already stated I was not telling anyone my town list, as I would rather save it for day 2 onward if I need to divulge it. For that reason I also am not going to comment on neutrals either, but I can discuss what I think of the scum part. I don't agree with his scum list at all, esp the part about me, and if there's one thing I know about seraphim, if he says so and so is scum due to gut, you do the complete opposite. I'm not saying that just because he claimed I'm scum, but he's proven it before like in day/night mafia, where every single claim of his was wrong, and every town was scum and every claimed scum was town. To be honest nacho has gone by unnoticed by me enough that I don't have a scum read on him, and fdshk doesn't give me the same vibe I get from other scum candidates, but once again I have put more focus on other players in this game and not so much on them. So overall I cannot say they make my scum list and the reason being they have not been my main focus of scumhunting.

Here's where the fun stuff starts
He begins his post by repeating something he's said twice already ("I WILL NOT GIVE YOU MY TOWN LIST!" Overall, not really scummy, no big deal. Then, he goes on to explain how he disagreed with BC's scumlist, and the only reason he disagreed with them was not because he thought the logic BC was using was incorrect, or even because he had reason to believe the people on BC's bandwagon were town. Instead, he says that "the one thing" he knows about Seraphim is that he's always wrong when he plays by instinct, then attributes a town read to everyone else on BC's scumlist to his gut. I don't like this because of two reasons: First, he discounts Seraphim's intuition entirely by saying that he was wrong every single time and only uses one game as an example. Secondly, discounting someone else's intuition while using your own to determine whether a person is scum or not is quite scummy, especially when your intuition has been proven wrong a little bit earlier in the game.

I also think it was a nice attempt by seraphim to provide his insight, but overall I kinda think the whole post was scummy, due to textbook rule where I've always heard posting your thoughts for scum to use is anti-town at best.

In other words, Saber found Seraphin scummy because he made a list on everyone. Calling people scummy based on a disagreement in logic isn't a case that holds a lot of water, in my opinion, nor is it something town should be doing.

Next three posts: fluff.

This would be more useful if he had been NKed, and not lynched. Scum don't really care what his opinions were as long as he gets lynched instead of them. I don't have much to say about his scumlist, especially as it was pretty big to begin with. I'm currently thinking that the odds of somebody on that list being scum are good enough though, seeing how large it is, so I may later choose one of you to vote. However, bringing up the list is a good sacrificial move to steer away from more important scumbuddies, but I'm not gonna push it as far as that, as it's much more unlikely to occur.

Okay post. Aside from the fact that it'd be in scum's best interest to get someone lynched that strongly felt they were a suspect, so looking at a scumlist gets a motive for pushing a vanilla townie kill. NKs can do the same thing, sure, but it's far too easy to get someone killed as scum and it's too easy to induce WIFOM.

Five posts of boring.

Then, a good post! Unfortunately, the conclusion he comes to is fairly obvious; however, the comments on meta are helpful for those who haven't played with everyone else.

Then comes another good post, a random vote, and two posts refusing to release the reasoning for it.

Then after the good streak comes 8 posts of fluff.

@ DRK: I like SB, seems pro-town enough for me. SB and Hoopla are my two pro-towns.

Before this, he refused to say any of his pro-towns or his neutrals in fear of giving the scum advice on who to NK. But now, when the number of pro-towns are beginning to dwindle, he decides to give the scum advice on who to kill. As saberwolf would say, anti-town at best.

Ok, so I had three reasons for my vote:

1. to see who questioned it and who let it slide

2. to see how hoopla would react to it and whether she joined me on the BW

3. whether nhammen would OMGUS me or vote for Kise.

I must say I didn't get too big of a reaction from the first 2, but I got what I wanted from part 3 when he voted for Kise. I figured he'd vote for the other person on my suspicion list if he started to get nervous, or else attack me and OMGUS vote me. I also figured nhammen is too smart to vote me, but I figure it's still possible for him to try and deflect the vote. The reason I think this is because by not placing a reason for my vote, I don't give him any way of shooting it down, thus making him wonder what it is that I got on him.

I'm gonna keep my vote here for now.

I don't like this at all, based on nhammen's 468.

The rest of his posts are either still more fluff/just plain boring.

[Nachomamma8]

Unvote, Vote: Kise

Since nobody will go for a saberwolf lynch...

[Nachomamma8]

Dragonfly/Saber/Taranski are my top three suspects now.

What's everyone else's top suspects?

[Nachomamma8]

Vote: Saber

Saber is scum.

[Nachomamma8]

Any particular reason you say SW is scum?

My post 506 should be good for starters.

Also, I'm surprised how no one commented on a nhammen twilight kill.

[Nachomamma8]

Saber, did you even read post 506?

As for your no lynch scenario.... are you serious?

[Nachomamma8]

Mafia is made up entirely of opinions.

And I would find a hole in your logic, but I don't truly understand it. I'll respond when I get some sleep.

[Nachomamma8]

If there is an SK today, the SK will kill along with the mafia, and we'll have the same effects as a mislynch will get us, and we'll still lose. The best thing that can come from a no-lynch is we go from MyLo to LyLo, and the worst thing that can happen is town loses. If we lynch, the best thing we can do is lynch a scum today, and narrow it down to either (A) One scum left or (B) One SK left. The worst thing we can do is lose the game. Thus, why no-lynching is bad in this situation.

[Nachomamma8]

Waiting for dramonic's input.

[Nachomamma8]

... I was somewhat expecting a grand case.

If you were expecting a grand case, then you must have something quite close to it hidden in your sleeves. Enlighten the rest of us.

As for the DF and Kise case, his defense is not especially overwhelming, but neither is the case itself. Something that makes him moderately scummy in my eyes, but nothing too compelling.

Still convinced saber is scum.

[Nachomamma8]

So, DRK. Since you seem a big fan of reaction hunting, what did you gather on everyone ese's reactions?

[Nachomamma8]

I'm still perfectly content with my saber vote; why isn't everyone else voting him right now?

[Nachomamma8]

So saber. You honestly believe that scum are looking to you for who they're going to NK tonight, or your case for someone being so pro-town is so compelling that everyone will go for it? You don't think that the scum will, I don't know, make the decision to take out the biggest threat on their own?

You honestly need to stop a) stop trying to bs your way out of making a real case (or even attempting to make one), or b) stop being so egotistic as to think the scum's entire NK is based off you because your current behavior is not helping town at all. If you are town, you're only witholding information from the rest of us, and practically baiting the scum to kill you to stop you from revealing your golden information.

Your no-lynch strategy is not amazing, honestly. As Tar already stated, there is a possibility of there being two kills tonight, just like the two kills that occured last night. So it's just as risky giving the scum a free night as it is lynching today; the only difference is that by lynching, we'll actually have the chance to hit scum instead of letting more townies die. Also, I don't know if you've noticed this, but Kise was a vengeful mafia and the only real townie power roles we've had were Doc, Cop, and One Shot Vig. In other words, the most LIKELY set up is starting to look like 2 scum 1 SK, where a no lynch would do nothing but hurt the town.

[Nachomamma8]

What makes you think that Scum/SK won't crosskill? I mean, if we do have a scum+SK combo, we're definitely going to have to rely on prisoner's dilema to guide us to a win, right? And by no lynching, we give all of the power to scum and SK to whether we win or lose, and quite frankly, I believe we have a better chance if we take the power into our own hands.

Or is 2 town, 1 SK, and 1 Scum that much better of odds that you believe we should no-lynch...

[Nachomamma8]

Anyways, your no-lynch argument is persuasive, and has good logic. But you're probably just taking a fall to get a no-lynch for pro-town points, and I'll further explain why you're scum tomorrow after a narrowing of the lynch pool and a few good nights of sleep.

Vote: No Lynch

[Nachomamma8]

This comes off as a little meaningless.

[Nachomamma8]

come on people, get active =_=

Vote: dramonic

You post a whole lot of nothing, so did your predecessor. You may be posting a lot, but I have seen no content from you whatsoever. Give me something worthwhile to read and I'll change my vote.

[Nachomamma8]

Get your vote off me, your case on me is a lie and if you're not scum I'm in quickhammer range.

I have commented on everything people have asked me to comment on, specifically the situation of yesterday and Saber's scumminess. I've also given my opinion on DRK's scumtell on DF13.

Although with his death, it could be worth reconsidering.

Actually, I think my vote is perfectly fine where it is.

In other words, you've done what people have told you to do? You haven't done any scumhunting for yourself, and you feel you've posted content? If I'm misrepresenting something in any way, feel free to point it out, but right now, this is what I see. If you're so afraid of a quicklynch, then I suggest you start making a case. I don't think the mafia will be able to quicklynch you before tonight's over, and I'll be on for another hour or so. If I'm impressed by what you say, I'll remove your vote. If it's all a bunch of bullshit or if you don't post at all, my vote stays.

[Nachomamma8]

You sure love making yourself as scummy as is humanly possible. Laying a quick vote in LyLo on a crappy case.

Absolutely brilliant.

Saberwolf is obvtown
Taranski's last few comments are just weird, but I have a hunch he's town too.

Leaves you and Dragonfly as scum.

I told you I'd unvote as soon as you made a decent case, didn't I? That wasn't a case, dramonic. Not even a least bit. Why don't you post some reasoning behind your comments?

[Nachomamma8]

Give me examples of the meta.

Explain why saber is "obvtown".

Explain why Taranski's comments were weird.

There's a start for making a case, eh? And I realize you didn't say that your post was intended to be a case, but I do realize that my vote isn't moving until you DO make a case.

[Nachomamma8]

And explain how "I'm sad to not be dead" a normal comment

Touche.

In your mind, who is the scummiest person right now?

[Nachomamma8]

Looks like the vote stays...

[Nachomamma8]

Well, tell me what you think of dramonic when you get done.

[Nachomamma8]

Well, that's a surprise. Can we get a prod on everyone else?

[Nachomamma8]

That's honestly all you have to say about it?

[Nachomamma8]

Ok, so there's a vote out and we're in lylo. The fact that the game isn't over should raise some questions. I think this means either dramonic or nacho is scum, or maybe they're both scum. I don't think the final two scum would have any need to drag out the game when they could just vote and end it.

Exactly. The reason I think that I've pegged dramonic as scum is because of his reaction: no townie I know would barely try to defend himself; I would've unvoted had dramonic responded how stupid my vote was, if he made a case no matter who it was on, or if he changed his current playstyle AT ALL. But what amazed me is the simple fact that he didn't. And, days and days later, even after every single person has checked in and shown they're still here, no scum quicklynch for the win.

So, I'd like all of the town to comment on who they think should be lynched and why. I'll expand on my dramonic case when everyone's done.

[Nachomamma8]

Get your vote off me, your case on me is a lie and if you're not scum I'm in quickhammer range.

What, that? Seems pretty damn half-hearted to me.

[Nachomamma8]

Michel, how's that reading going?

[Nachomamma8]

Dramonic and Dragonfly are obviously the two remaining scum...

[Nachomamma8]

You because of your general uselessness, odd reactions, and lack of any sort of scumhunting whatsoever.

Dragonfly because of DRK's read on him, and because of his interactions with Kise day 1.

[Nachomamma8]

Day 4 saw nachomamma vote dramonic, without a quicklynch following. However, because firefly and Taranski haven't been online at the same time, and therefore couldn't quickhammer, this doesn't tell me anything at all.

Normally I would read this and go "Ok, sensible enough." However, it has been 6 days since I've cast the initial vote. I think even the most unorganized of scum could get together within 6 days and organize a quicklynch, don't you?

Also, he voted someone I am virtually sure is town during what is likely LYLO.

But we do know that either Dramonic or I is scum, or there is 1 scum left as opposed to 2.

[Nachomamma8]

Vanilla.

I forgot.

[Nachomamma8]

So guys, tell me one more time why I'm scum.

[Nachomamma8]

well, scum is evidently me or nacho, therefore I dont need to unvote.

faaaaaaaaaalse dilemna

[Nachomamma8]

Could've, but I'm not sure if they can daytalk or not.

[Nachomamma8]

Well, they've had a fair amount of time to synche. I've been at L-2 for a while now.

But they're both extremely inactive and come on at different time, and you can't exactly post in thread "Hey, let's both meet in the thread at 5:00 today, board time."

[Nachomamma8]

Unless otherwise specified, living players can't communicate with each other out of the thread. By default, I allow mafia to daytalk. I will set up a QuickTopic for anyone who is able to communicate with someone else.

Mmkay, thanks for clarifying. But you still haven't answered me...

[Nachomamma8]

So guys, tell me one more time why I'm scum.

[Nachomamma8]

I am assuming there were three mafia, considering that we had a cop, a doc and a one shot vig. With one mafia dead, that means there are two mafia still alive.

This isn't exactly a safe assumption. In my past 3 games, I've currently been proven wrong with guessing how many scum were left (Read the Themed Game Crayola Catastrophe.

Nachomamma is shortly mentioned in #6 and again used as reference in #29. Those are the only two times kise mentioned nachomamma, and neither contained any comments on him.

I really didn't do a whole lot Day 1. It was one of those games where it was hard to get out of the RVS stage and start doing scumhunting again. So, since I hadn't posted a lot of content, what content did Kise have to mention? I also have to say he didn't comment a lot on Groinhammer either...

With dragonfly, something similar happened. Dragonfly is namedropped in #13 and #30, neither of which actually contain comments on dragonfly. He responds to a question dragonfly asks directly of him in #28, and gives his opinion on dragonfly in #34 in response to a request from Hoopla. Both of these last two were done in response to someone else specifically asking something of him, though.

I actually am confused as to this paragraph. Could you clarify for me?

This also makes Seraphim/dramonic more likely town, because Kise is unlikely to mention suspicion of a partner who is not under serious threat.

In Stars Aligned, a game I played with Kise, he bussed the hell of out one of his scumpartners before he had fallen under major suspicion.

Scum would probably be content to let their partner lurk away.

However, it would be beneficial for a mafioso member to yank his scummember our of lurking mode BEFORE he falls under suspicion, now wouldn't it?

Before his ISO #18, dramonic had not given a significant opinion on anyone. Instead, he mainly had been discussing the no lynch, which was the mayor talk of day 3. This doesn't give me much to look for scum connections though. No tells either way.

I'm confused as to why you're taking this as a nulltell. Not voicing an opinion is far more pro-town than standing back and watching everyone else argue.

Before his vote in post #35, Nachomamma didn't mention Kise at all. And the only reason he gave for voting Kise was that noone was willing to support a saberwolf lynch. If dragonfly was getting attacked for ignoring Kise, Nachomamma should be attacked for exactly the same.

I mentioned fhq ONCE, and that was an answer to a question. I mentioned Starbuck once, and that was me expressing my condolences for her loss. Groinhammer, OMGL (or whatever his name is), I didn't mention as well. The reason why dragonfly's ignoring of Kise was suspicious was because Kise was one of the only people he ignored, not one of many.

His interactions with Dragonfly are interesting too. There is no interaction whatsoever during day 1 or 2, but then in post #36 Dragonfly is suddenly one of his top suspects, with no reason given.

I didn't interact with many people during Day 1 or 2. As a result, I didn't do much scumhunting during Day 1 and Day 2. So I went off what everyone else was saying. Was that incredibly lazy? Yes. Is laziness a scumtell? No.

Also interesting: in ISO #43, he calls DRK's case ("dragonfly and kise virtually didn't interact") not too compelling, but in post #63 (with no interaction in between), he mentions DRK's read and the interaction between dragonfly and kise during day 1 as the main reasons for being suspicious of dragonfly.

When DRK first presented his case, I had the same reaction as dramonic.

So they barely interacted. So what?

But after DRK's death and the guarantee that all scumhunting he did was made in the best interests of the town, I did a reread and an ISO of both of them, and I found it to be a pretty good point.

There is no mentioning whatsoever of either Seraphim or dramonic, except when discussing completely different topics. That is, before he votes dramonic in Lylo.

I felt that dramonic was skating through the game without providing any content, and I saw that he and I were both online, and no one else was. So, I placed the vote on to force some content out. It never came, even with a vote on him during LyLo. He never expressed suspicion of me during that point, so it didn't seem like he was confident I was scum at that time. He just reacted in a pretty damn uncaring way, as if he knew he wouldn't be quickhammered. Then, he doesn't vote for me until you express suspicion of me, where he does so immediately.

[Nachomamma8]

If the assumption is incorrect, and there is only 1 scum remaining, it is possible that you are town, but in that case we can afford a mislynch. 2 scum still alive is the worst case scenario, and therefore a very safe assumption.

Then you should be pushing for Dragonfly's lynch, not mine. Because right now, he's not even putting an effort to post content (read: he's lurking), which is pretty damn scummy considering I'm under fire. Also, I'm pretty sure you could see either a me-Dragonfly or a dramonic-Dragonfly scumpair, meaning the main argument is between me and dramonic, right? So why not lynch the scum person that we both feel is scum; if I'm mafia, then I'm just pushing for my partner to get lynched, and it doesn't really matter. But if I'm town, then we aren't losing.

Reasonable explanation, but not completely valid. After all, he also didn't comment on you during day 2, and RVS was long since over by then.

But I still didn't really say anything day 2, either, save for a case on saberwolf that really didn't get a whole lot of attention.

If you're going to look at his interactions with me, please look at both my predecessors. Saberwolf replaced Groinhammer halfway through day 1, and was actually questioned by Kise.

However, Groinhammer had about the same activity level as me. Saber's activity was a lot higher than mine. And since you know Groinhammer was town, I'm just pointing out that Kise didn't really talk about the low-activity people.

Huh? Am I reading the first post of that game wrong? It says he was an investigator, which seems to be pro-town in that game. Expand, please.

Ohhh, right... >.>
I got him mixed up. And if you read the game and see how scummy he ACTED, you'd see why...

Probably, yes. But that will mean a "I'm hoping to hear more from ..." will be posted. The scumpartner should become more active to avoid suspicion. However, explicitly asking for opinions ruins an important part of the strategy. One of the main reasons lurking is good for scum is that they can avoid giving their opinions.

Hmm... If we're talking about the same post, this was at the point where Seraphim was disappearing completely and Kise requested a Seraphim prod. I don't find it completely disbelievable that scum would question a partner that seemed to be disappearing...

It's because I'm looking for connections between scum, not individual scumtells. Individual scumtells are generally overrated, bandwagon analysis works much better. Because dramonic didn't give his opinions on anyone, there is no difference in his relation to anyone, so no connection to anyone stands out.

The only thing scummier than a strong connection to scum is no connection to anyone.

You also didn't vote fhq, Starbuck, Groinhammer or OGML. A big difference between the players you mentioned and Kise. Also, note that Dragonfly was ignoring Seraphim, you and Taranski.

No one made a case on fhq, Groinhammer, Starbuck, or OGML that I agreed with, and none of them were coming close to being lynched.

You went off what everyone else was saying?! Nonsense. Hoopla had stated she believed Dragonfly to be pro-town, nobody else had commented on Dragonfly at all. You were asking everybody about their top 3 suspects, so you didn't know who those top suspects were. Claiming that your suspicion of Dragonfly was the result of following others is ridiculous.

This will be addressed in the next post.

So despite the fact that DRK specifically asked everyone to do the ISO read when he brought up his case originally, you decided to write it of without actually doing that ISO he suggested? Extremely lazy at the very least.

I did the ISO. Did I reread? No. Rereading helps infinitely more than ISOs when looking for connections.

I can buy reaction hunting. However, labeling post #657 as uncaring about the vote is strange. He also did give opinions (based mainly on gut) immediately when you voted. If anyone was uncaring about a quickhammer, it would be you. You left your vote on even after you logged of. He was concerned about quickhammering. After all, his vote only came when it was clear that the other three players weren't quickhammering him, even though we all were present.

I told him I wouldn't unvote until he made a case, did I not? He didn't make a case. He didn't even try; even though my vote put him in quickhammer range. I can guarantee you a townie would make a case for themselves or against someone else in order to get a vote DURING LyLo off them, no matter what. It was uncaring because he didn't try in the least bit, he didn't fight back, and he barely defended himself.

If anyone was uncaring about a quickhammer, it would be you. You left your vote on even after you logged of. He was concerned about quickhammering.

I made a promise. I kept it. I was going to make damn sure that he wouldn't be quickhammered before I logged off, as long as he tried to make a case of some sort. He didn't.

After all, his vote only came when it was clear that the other three players weren't quickhammering him, even though we all were present.

It was clear that the other three players weren't going to quickhammer as soon as dragonfly checked in, so that is complete and total nonsense.

[Nachomamma8]

You went off what everyone else was saying?! Nonsense. Hoopla had stated she believed Dragonfly to be pro-town, nobody else had commented on Dragonfly at all.

Except Saberwolf.

You were asking everybody about their top 3 suspects, so you didn't know who those top suspects were. Claiming that your suspicion of Dragonfly was the result of following others is ridiculous.

Just because I ask for top suspects doesn't mean that I don't know everyone else's. Instead, it most likely means I'm suspecting someone for excessive neutrality. Some like Dragonfly himself, perhaps...

[Nachomamma8]

Can we get a prod on everyone? Last time I checked, this mafia game had more than two people playing.

Dragonfly wasn't around before saberwolf was banned. When Dragonfly checked in, I had stated that I was reading the thread from the beginning, and hadn't finished reading yet. What guarantee did Dramonic have that I knew he was at L-2?

You checked in and said that you read 10 pages. As scum, I'm sure that means you've checked your quicktopic first, just to say you were there.
Any halfway competant scumpartner would've posted that it's game-winning time in the quicktopic, and told you that dramonic was at L-2 and asking you a time convinient for you to set up a quicklynch.

So let's see if I understood you correctly. Your top suspect in ISO #36 was Saberwolf. You were pushing for his lynch during the end of day 2 and most of day 3. The other players in your top 3 were Dragonfly and Taranski. Dragonly was on there because Saberwolf was suspicious of him?! So out of all people you could follow, you decided to follow the opinions of the player you believed was scum?!

Hmm... I was just pointing out that someone commented on Dragonfly. The person I actually listened to was named after a predominant coffee shop chain.


Anyways, I ignored everything else because I'm looking to stop the quote walls. Give me a second before you vote and Dragonfly hammers.

[Nachomamma8]

nacho is the play.

Might I ask why?

Nacho, you were trying to deflect the lynch to dragonfly. Why? Do you think he is scum? What about Sable, what is your read on him?

Definitely feeling a dragonfly scum read. Sable, on the other hand, is most definitely town (despite stubborn town).

[Nachomamma8]

Seraphim had a total of 19 posts, 9 of which were made in the RVS stage. Five of the remaining posts were either requests for prods or promises for more. The remaining five posts were where all his content came from, but all of the content was spent attacking what we now know to be town players.

First of all, I could still see Kise-Seraphim scumbuddies quite easily. ISO 13, which we were ACTUALLY talking about before (:P), isn't really attacking Kise that much for lurking. It just criticizes his catch up post a little bit and asks who Kise thinks is scum. This is behavior I would expect from a scumpartner- it's half hearted, and it's not exactly very aggressive, unlike his attacks on Groinhammer, DRK, and fhq (2 confirmed townies and you, might I add).

Second of all, I'd like to point out his terrific lack of content. 5 content posts is not a whole lot, and considering most of them were attacks against what are now confirmed town (when he did attack Dragonfly/Kise, it wasn't anything spectacular like his Taran/DRK/fhq/Groinhammer attacks), so I think assigning him better than a neutral read is unfair.

Dramonic, on the other hand, is scummy. Honestly, I don't see where your town read on him is coming from. He has posted zero to no content (his longest post was 5 lines, and that wasn't even a case on here), he's inactive and not answering anything against him even though his top suspect is about to get lynched, and he hasn't done anything other than answer questions asked directly of him and give his opinions on a no-lynch or whether it's LyLo or not. Thus, a scum read on him.

[Nachomamma8]

Looks like Seraphim was so town he brought dramonic through with him.

Meh, I tried. Calling a dramonic/dragonfly scumpair when one of 'em finally hammers, though.

[Nachomamma8]

Screw waiting.

Vote: Nachomamma8

[Nachomamma8]

Yeah... my lurking in the beginning really screwed me over