Mini 1853: Trial of the Evoker [Game Over]
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Not Chara Mafia Scum
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hello everyone.
hopefully i'll have some time to get started here within the next few hours. looking forward to the game.
Gamma: i disagree, i think the third question is good. scum can lie about their meta if they want to, in a wide variety of situations. the third question provides an opportunity to examine a players play and see if they appear to be matching their supposed scum meta at all. a player aware enough to give a fairly accurate portrayal of their scum mindset could then try to avoid playing in the manner they described, among other things.-
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i really don't see why we're toying with spell mass-claiming. it's the same reason anyone doesn't claim their 1-shot PR in another game. it's just telling scum how to handle the night.
Prism: explain your Wisdom vote? i don't see it.
dunn should explain as well.
Fire Assassin's first post is entirely lost on me.
if BATORU hydra could stop signing altogether, or consistently sign, that would be ideal. i've simply begun to not care who is posting there.
post edit: no longer have the question for Prims. Dunn, i'd still like to know why you followed Prism onto Wisdom.
ironstove: do you plan on playing the game sometime soon? and answering the many, many questions about how exactly your power works?
VOTE: Sondam-
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for that, it would also be useful for ironstove to explain his ability better than he has.In post 200, Dunnstral wrote:
I didn't like the way he reacted to me having a curseIn post 196, Not Chara wrote:post edit: no longer have the question for Prims. Dunn, i'd still like to know why you followed Prism onto Wisdom.
or his involvement in general. gut scum
I was wondering if I could bounce the curse off of ironstove to open him up for investigations and the like... I'd have to check with the mod and rules on order of operations and I don't even know if we'd want to do that
as for Wisdom: if these are the reasons, i dislike that your vote came after Prism's. you didn't seem to take issue with Wisdom before then, and i don't understand what you didn't like about his reaction to your curse.-
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scum. why was this question asked, Fire? ;>In post 210, Fire Assassin wrote:
I believe I was a pre-in before you signed up.In post 207, Mega Frozen wrote:@People can you please refer to Fire as Fire? Fire why your inning to games with your FA acc? Your trying to confuse me >.>
Even so, if I formed such a dastardly plan, I would have probably announced it in sign ups.
Whats your read on Sondam?
Sondam: please tell me, in detail, why you are so very obvious town.-
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well... i'm not sure why i would vote Sondam if i wasn't scumreading them. and i didn't give reasoning there. i'd like Sondam to talk to me more, first. i didn't like their entrance in the least.-
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it's difficult to explain, but this seems more like a miscommunication between you two.In post 220, Prism wrote:I like the Mega vote. #185 is some pretty accusatory language putting something in my mouth, and while their stated reason behind the question is courteous, I'm not really sure I buy it. My impression of it was that it was a question for the sake of it.
VOTE: Mega Frozen
in my experience, questions scum ask to look busy general look more like actual content, even if they aren't. i didn't really get that feeling from Frozen's questions.
how do you feel about Sondam and Dunnstral?
Fire: hm. well, that's about Nosferatu's only content post so far. i can't see where you got the dislike from. is it the dunn vote, or the comment about BTD?-
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...hm. i don't much like this. you asked me for my read on Sondam, and an explanation, after i voted them. which is fine. but for the player you're voting, you can't articulate your own case at this time?In post 225, Fire Assassin wrote:
I can't pinpoint my concerns yet, ill let you know when they become more available.In post 224, Mega Frozen wrote:@Fire I know you won't hear me and call me ATE'e or whatever, I'm not going to respond to you emotional. I want to cooprate with you logical wise to understand your scumread on me and deflect it. This is my step , now its your turn. What are your concerns?
it makes your earlier question about my Sondam vote feel very empty and unnecessary.-
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oh. why did i think you had a vote down there? my mistake. i think i mixed it up because Frozen was voted right after, and i'd thought they were following your lead.In post 228, Fire Assassin wrote:I think Not Chara is town.
I would expect them to be paying attention to the game more closely as scum and see where my vote is, and the questioning of my own reads when I have weak reasoning seems townie.
that said, while i see your reasoning, i don't know how i feel about my natural proclivity to miss things being used as a towntell. i'd miss the same things as scum, unless you think i pay less attention to the thread as town?
pedit: i see.
i think that explanation is good enough.
Dunn: no role confirmations?-
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eh. i'm feeling less like this is a road worth pursuing.
essentially my concerns were: Fire has a scumread on Mega Frozen, but has a wait and see approach to explaining it. but there must have been a reason, even a vague one, for the initial scumread? and the Nosferatu read just feels like pointing at a content post and saying it's sort of scummy, and i can't see why.
but they're very earlier reads, so maybe this isn't so necessary to question at this time. it isn't as though there are heaps of content, and we have to start somewhere.
pedit: hm. yeah, Fire is probably town. at the very least, not scum for any of the concerns i had before.-
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...well. i sort ofIn post 242, Fire Assassin wrote:
Do you have a counter opinion on that or you just don't think thats true?In post 240, Dunnstral wrote:It means I don't really follow
I would think Not Chara wouldn't make a simple mistake like that.didjust make that mistake, haha.
Dunn: my question about role confirmations was because i wanted to know why you brought them up. i didn't know what you meant in that post.-
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it isn't just me, it's also the way he explained his reads on you two. i don't take issue with having weaker reads at this stage, and the way he tied that into his read on me doesn't feel like scum. i often see what appear to be misunderstandings as town, and point them out, so i liked that Fire was acknowledging misunderstandings as a reason for conflict, instead of just scummy behaviour.In post 247, Mega Frozen wrote:Why are you talking with such a serious and formal tone with me Fire?
@NC what about him being able to explain his reasons for town reading you make him probably town? How is that resolved your previous concerns about reads on me and Nosfeartu?
#Frozen
and my concerns weren't as deep as i thought, i realized.
Frozen: have you played with him as scum? is he more formal, then? otherwise, i'm not sure why you'd bring this up.-
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i suppose. i mean, you've been discussing with him on other topics as well.
i don't know how else to explain about Fire. the post you quoted has my thoughts. the problems i had weren't so much problems, i understand his stance, and i liked his responses. there isn't anything else for me to take issue with.
can you give me reads on Sondam and Dunnstral?
pedit: because him acting formal is either alignment indicative and important, or not alignment indicative and unimportant. because you asked, i figured you thought it might be alignment indicative. and if you knew his scumgame, you would know if the formality was something to be wary of, or not.-
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excuse me for my absence.
Prism: i see your points on Frozen, and ones like 482 in particular seem very nit-picky. i wouldn't say you're scum for it, but the thought that Frozen would be less likely to make the mistake as town is a bit silly. if one is misreading/misunderstanding the wording of something, it's NAI. she wouldn't be more likely to pick up on that as town, and trying to quantify how much a player is trying to read you based on something so flimsy, is just going to lead to a lot of unnecessary semantic arguments.
i'm not caught up yet, but ironstove: honestly, claim your abilities. you've already said what they do, you need to clear up the confusion about how it works. wanting clarification on that isn't a scumtell. do you block the ability's affect on you before reflecting, or does the ability work and then reflect? it's the difference between whether you'll be able to be investigated or not.-
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scum: Dunn, Nosferatu, pisskop
null: BTD, Sondam
town: Frozen/Gamma, Prism, BATORU, drealmerz, Fire, ironstove, Impoetic, Wisdom
i'm caught up, essentially. and now i can properly play.
Sondam, if you keep asking me for reasoning while i'm not present, you won't get reasoning. but i'm here now.
my issues with Sondam were actually quoted by Dunn: i didn't like the tone of their posts, by not liking their entrance i meant their posts in general up to that point, i didn't like them referring to themselves as 'obvtown', and it seemed a good early-game vote. that they reacted to the votes with 'what are you doing, i'm obvious town', made me ask why they were.
VOTE: Dunnstral
calling Wisdom 'afraid' of Sondam is ridiculous. that isn't how he plays, from what i've seen.
i wouldn't want to wagon Sondam right now, after finishing catching up. they're a slot i believe i'll have trouble reading.
Wisdom: why is pisskop town? i feel the opposite.-
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we have six days left. you aren't being railroaded into picking a lynch right this moment. are you scumreading Sondam, or aren't you? if you have them at null, or if you're thinking 'maybe they're dumb town', i don't see why you wouldn't attempt to press elsewhere.In post 830, Nosferatu wrote:
your idiocy is amazing.In post 822, Sondam wrote:
Yeah dude, nice backtracking. "haha this person im voting might be town but let me keep voting them over my other scumreads xDD"In post 820, Nosferatu wrote:sondam might be just terribad town and the scum team might just be {not chara, ironstove, prism}. Not entirely sure. Fine lynching any of those 4 though.
~G
tell me where the fucking wagon on iron stove, prism, or not chara is. I fucking thought so, there is none. Why the fuck would I go to start a wagon on a scum read, when I can stick to the one that's already started and not divide the votes more than they already are.In post 801, Nahdia wrote:Sondam (5):Not Chara, Dunnstral, Nosferatu, BTD6_Maker, pisskop
Wisdom (2):Gamma Emerald, Sondam
ironstove (1):Fire Assassin
BTD6_Maker (1):drealmerz7
Nosferatu (1):BATORU
Gamma Emerald (1):ironstove
Dunnstral (1):Prism
drealmerz (1):Wisdom
honestly, think before you post, jesus.
more importantly, i really dislike this response. the hostility is unwarranted and you don't actually clarify your Sondam read.-
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Wisdom's 'you don't need a reason to wagon scum' is something he said, word for word, in our last scumgame together. on second thought, i'm not happy enough with Wisdom to put him in my town-pile anymore. he seems to be doing more sticking to earlier reads and holding on to them, than changing his reads in response to new information.
i agree that ironstove is very town.-
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Nosferatu: if you're busy doing partner associations, why am i on a scumteam with Sondam? because i voted them, and sat back and let their lynch wagon grow? 'noncommittal' is very vague.
i mean, i've changed my mind on that read a bit now, but i communicated that after you said we were on a team.-
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you didn't, i just didn't vote you in my previous post when i meant to.
Dunnstral: the behaviour of picking an early scumread and then holding it throughout the day is something that bothers me in a general sense. it's not a tunnel, which could be considered town, it feels more like an attempt to be consistent while jumping around with votes on other players in the meantime. (Wisdom, ironstove, i'm forgetting if there are others) there's no real feeling of belief that Sondam is scum.-
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what part of any of iron's posting looks like an attempt for towncred? especially after iron explains it. it just looks like misplaying town. scum taking refuge in ridiculous plays doesn't look so awkward and stumbling.In post 432, Dunnstral wrote:
soIn post 408, Gamma Emerald wrote:
OK I don't really see scum doing this sort of 1 for 1In post 354, ironstove wrote:Lynch me then Lynch frozen thanks
can be town for now
bad
looks to me like scum that got overeager and said that when it honestly made no sense to try to get towncred-
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not sure where reading comprehension failed on: 'Dunn picked Sondam as an early scumread then held that read through the entire game, with little evidence of re-figuring in response to new information, and without the fervent tunneling that could be seen as something towny.'In post 841, Dunnstral wrote:Don't understand what you're accusing me of but I probably didn't do it-
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i was asking whether or not you had the reads before, is all. that you did is enough for me.In post 843, drealmerz7 wrote:
the reads don't match "exactly" at all...we see some similar stuff, but the main thing is that the results of the reads are very similar in that I've got nos, piss, dunn, all rounding out the top of the suspect list for me. I've had them there since way before you made your posts, at least a few days (hadn't unvoted BTD6 because I had meant to re-read and see if I wanted to keep it there, removed now because he doesn't warrant it at this point until I do and get more, and even so, the other 3 are wayyy more scummy)In post 840, Not Chara wrote:did your three scumreads (beyond BTD) match mine exactly before my reads post?
the way you went about it feels very town to me and it made me feel good enough about me reads to state/reiterate them (I think I've been more vocal about nos and piss, but not dunn, but dunn has been registering scummy a lot of the game so far no doubt)-
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i don't oppose it. but i'm not going to be pushing them, i want to lynch my scumreads.In post 847, Wisdom wrote:
If you believe you'll have trouble reading them, why would you oppose a wagon on them?In post 832, Not Chara wrote:i wouldn't want to wagon Sondam right now, after finishing catching up. they're a slot i believe i'll have trouble reading.-
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alright. it isn't as though i've meta-dived you, ever, or played with you as town.In post 849, Wisdom wrote:
and in every towngame everIn post 834, Not Chara wrote:Wisdom's 'you don't need a reason to wagon scum' is something he said, word for word, in our last scumgame together.-
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this implies that he was right about your PM, even as a joke. :>In post 863, drealmerz7 wrote:mod, I think wisdom has just confessed to hacking MS, and should be sitebanned, thanx
pedit: haha.-
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what does this mean? it's kind of a weird error, honestly. are you implying you did it on purpose?
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i know it was obviously a joke, but it's sort of a strange one. i don't see why you couldn't put them both in the same post. the only people going "EEE!" would be Wisdom and i, and only if we caught that split second.In post 872, drealmerz7 wrote:
I mean the making of 2 posts, making a pause and space between the fake "mod..." (which wasn't bolded) and the "oh wait nm" - yes it was deliberate, to make everyone go "EEE!" for a split second and then "ohh" in the next postIn post 868, Not Chara wrote:what does this mean? it's kind of a weird error, honestly. are you implying you did it on purpose?
it was meant to be funny
pedit: i like the verse writing.-
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players who make jokes will do so regardless of alignment. why are you trying to push this as a reason to scumread drealmerz?In post 875, Wisdom wrote:chara remember how Hark made jokes too? yeah-
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unsure of how i feel about this explanation. did that much thought actually go into your minor joke? normally these things are more spur of the moment.In post 876, drealmerz7 wrote:hmmm, I still think it is more effective in 2 posts for ppl who read in the future, they have to scroll a bit more and the 1st thought completes as a complete thought before leading to the 2nd one
I contemplated merging it, but, then decided to split, for effect
I do get creative once I get more into a game, D1 is hard for that (I try to start off with passionate play and enthusiasm, but when ppl poop on it so fast, it is hard sometimes, plus it can get in the way, I try hard to not let it get in the way though)
pedit: aren't you voting Sondam right now? what's the use in convincing me drealmerz is scum at the moment? and yes, i was wondering if you were scumreading me or not when you appealed to me with that comment about Hark.-
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oh. nevermind that then.In post 882, Wisdom wrote:no, im voting drealmer.
that isn't a good answer when you didn't address the fact that players make jokes as either alignment, if they're the type to do so.In post 880, Wisdom wrote:because i want him to die
but i dont know why im trying to sell you on it since you're his buddy
or that hark isn't drealmerz.
pedit: not much i can say to that, haha.-
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Wisdom: that's fair. and in-line with how i've been thinking on it.
it's one thing if he'd been just answering my questions on the matter, but the explanation after explanation is a bit much.
why do you have pisskop as town?-
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drealmerz:that'sthe part you take issue with? ;>
Wisdom: alright.
pedit: that was already apparently by your readslist including me as scum, pisskop. did you feel the need to reiterate because i had you as scum?
drealmerz: scum don't want their motivations to remain muddy to the town. they want to explain themselves if they're being scumread for something.-
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i never implied reiteration was needless, but it usually has a point.In post 902, pisskop wrote:why do you not equate my propagation of my light scumread with anyone else campaigning for vote
its but needless "reiteration' when you choose it to be hunh
i'm posting now when i wasn't before, so saying that you'd lynch me now makes sense, in light of that event. why not just answer with that? instead you deflect.
and i'm certain i've been asking other players why they're saying things. don't pretend i'm contradicting myself to treat you special. ;>-
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responding to a prod. sorry Nahdia, all. content tomorrow.
i'm surprised pisskop is voting Dunnstral instead of me. i need to read.
pedit: oh, hello. pretty sure i talked briefly on that earlier, while you were around. you said you didn't understand what i was saying.-
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why do you have this lack of understanding for everything i do? i explained myself in our last conversation and haven't been active since.In post 1186, Dunnstral wrote:So why are you voting me now-
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UNVOTE:
been reading Dunn and pisskop. feeling better about both, but i'm liking the reasoning for Dunnstral less. besides my issues with him, a lot of the scumreads seem to be related to Dunn calling his spell a curse, and refusing to claim his abilities before he's being threatened with a hammer. for one, calling a spell named "wayward curse" that makes you hated a "curse" makes a lot of sense, and i don't see why players are jumping to it being black magic.-
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Fire Assassin: on 921. i was being asked why i had voted Sondam. Dunn's quoting of all those posts was a convenient way to articulate it. i don't know if i buy that you'd think i wouldn't be more careful with when and where i place my vote as scum.
and the focus on the amount of reads, rather than why they're there. it feels shallow.
Gamma: your 'i'll look back and see' and then the vote feels fake when you said my catchup was town. did pointing out the number of scumreads and townreads and they my scumreads were 'safe' really flip the read?
pretty sure ironstove and Wisdom/sickofit are both town. ironstove's unwillingness to clarify on his ability is also annoying. either don't say anything and play it that way, or claim it in a way we can actually play around.
940: why? it's just a normal post with thoughts and reads. either alignment can do that. what was towny enough to unvote for?
i've just realized Impoetic and BATORU are the same slot. there were so many posts for Impoetic that i didn't even notice...
i do think Fire Assassin is town after 99. i can see where he's coming from. i think i dismissed him as town for similar reasons that Gamma did, but those feel less worthy of a townread right now.
dreal feeling the need to explain why he unvoted Wisdom when no one asked is bothering me.
i could vote Gamma if we had the time.
and reading Dunn in context i don't find a lot of scumhunting. 'evasive' is an accurate descriptor. but it's true the curse is provable. i don't know how that makes him less evasive, but like i said earlier, it dismisses the arguments about the curse being dark magic. town players can't use it if i remember.
1141 is also looking fake. and then he continues asking about Dunn's abilities.
VOTE: Gamma Emerald
i like this vote. Gamma isn't looking town, and he's the type that i usually peg as town when he's acting like mislynch-bait. i'd consolidate on Dunn before Sondam, if it's needed, but i don't much like either wagon. which it might be, depending on how activity looks from here. Nosferatu is a better scum-pick.
Nahdia, could we get another count?-
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i'm caught up now, pisskop. and i shouldn't be falling behind again. do you find my catchup minimalist?
how do you feel about Gamma's posting, specifically the ones that looked fake?
pedit: i'm not the happiest about the three choices, but i was gone long enough to not have much of a say.
Dunn: i answered you. are you still confused?-
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are you answering me by addressing everyone else?In post 1198, Gamma Emerald wrote:Yes the extra opinions on NC changed my mind.
and i'd rather Sondam over Dunn if that has to be done, now. but with three wagons at 3, 3, and 2, i don't really think we're locked in.-
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i have two votes.In post 1222, pisskop wrote:And besides, you arent a leading wagon.-
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with this level of activity, it might not work out.In post 1223, BATORU wrote:you don't think we have time to get a lynch outside the current top wagons with 2 days left? i'm still not used to forum mafia or what it takes
-tama (the other post was me too)
the thing is, those three 'top wagons', don't exactly have a lot of votes, and those that are there (like pisskop) seem to just be milling about.-
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i wanted your opinion on my feelings on Gamma.In post 1227, pisskop wrote:Wecould
But its not really a safe thing. That kind of rapid shift and out-of-the-blue switching smells like the rankness of compromise lynching.
But, if you have a strong feel about another person, than by all means lay it on us. We didnt need to spend 12 days waffling, so I dont know why you would, but whats 2 more atp.-
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Not Chara Mafia Scum
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what i mean is there's less preference on who to lynch. that's how it's looking to me.
'we need a lynch, these are the leading wagons' is fine, but if there's no strong reason given for which one to consolidate on, it's up in the air who actually gets lynched. it's easy for scum to swing the lynch onto a town option of the three with little blowback because 'they were a leading wagon', or 'we needed the lynch'. maybe this is just pisskop, and the others there have stronger feelings? i would need to read again.
not voting immediately isn't the issue. i'd also wait until the latest it's needed to vote whoever would need to be lynched. i just don't feel we're there yet. and saying that all of the wagons have reasons to be lynched is not enforcing an actual lynch choice.
pedit: he feels like he's forcing his tone and opinions. i pointed out some things in my catchup, but i could look through his ISO again.-
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scumlean overall, but i do agree that there hasn't been much evidence given for why he's scum. votes like Gamma's in particular don't have any real logic behind them, and the pattern of accusing Dunn of things like 'talking about his spell as a curse' and then saying that he isn't responding to accusations like town would don't look good to me. my issue with him right now would be that he didn't seem to understand why i said i voted for him, and kept asking about it. and i don't feel he's been doing any recent hunting beyond asking players on his wagon why they're voting him. if there was followup there, i might be inclined to call it town, but as it is there's no much towny about him. i do wonder if i should ignore the bad arguments for scum Dunn and just participate in the lynch because of the other problems, but i don't like ignoring Gamma if i can help it.
pedit: well, i'd already typed it.-
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Not Chara Mafia Scum
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so you've turned setup-spec into a scumslip from Dunnstral?In post 1239, Gamma Emerald wrote:Because the mechanics involved make me think everyone starts with one.
and why, if scum could start with a normal spell and dark magic, would it not be possible for town to have a negative utility spell on top of a different spell?
and why does Dunn being non-specific about full-claiming mean he must have more spells?-
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Not Chara Mafia Scum
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Not Chara Mafia Scum
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for your continuing forced obliviousness to every scumread directed your way. you aren't this clueless.In post 1419, Dunnstral wrote:Also the hop-on
and 263 just looks fake. plus, the logic of deciding to 'do town things' in response to townreading someone, even as a joke, is a bit absurd.-
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pisskop isn't a scumread and i liked your Gamma push.In post 1421, Dunnstral wrote:My bad, I'll try to keep the jokes to a minimum.
Dunnstral: have your reactions to scumreads also been jokes.-
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ironstove is probably town, as is pisskop. Sondam is a good compromise. Dunn or Gamma would be better.
i'm a bad compromise, and because we don't have a lot of time left, and i can see myself getting wagoned due to my own lack of time: i'm a PR. vote elsewhere.