Large Normal 226 | The Legend of Zelda | Canceled

[The Fonz]

Well I know for a straight out fact 1 of the people on my starting wagon is scum.
Also, do you all honestly think I’m still toxic?

Hey, TSE. Here you imply role information, then do fuck all with it. If you know for a fact, either you have specific info on a single player, or you have some broader "there are x scum in players abc" type knowledge, or you're scum and hinting that you're being bussed like Nero suggests. If you don't, you're completely full of shit.

If you have role info that means town can make a better lynch, then hinting at it rather than outing it means you're already playing badly in an anti town way.

If you're hinting bus, you're scum.

If you're just making it up to try to redirect attention away from you to your Wagoners, then you're being kinda toxic already.

So ten pages in, I'm already left thinking you're either scum, playing really badly, or toxic.

Your Nero vote is pretty bad -even if he's slightly misreading one post, he's showing scumhunting motive. It reads omgus at best, which is not inherently scummy but is a thing I've seen you do that contributes to your perceived toxicity.

So let's turn the volume down. If your "I know there's scum" thing is just your usual overconfidence, then admit that now, and I at least will let it slide. Then tell me something you've noticed about a player NOT on your wagon, and not relating to something they've said about you. Can be anything game relevant. I feel like if you direct your energy at scumhunting on your own wagon, it will continue to come across as defensive and omgussy and look toxic or scummy, making the wagon a self fulfilling prophecy. If you want to help town, look elsewhere, except if you genuinely DO have helpful role info.

[The Fonz]

I can answer, it is. And that's why I don't see Nero's point as valid.

Is that aimed at me? Hard to tell with all the ninjas.

[The Fonz]

I can answer, it is. And that's why I don't see Nero's point as valid.

Is that aimed at me? Hard to tell with all the ninjas.

yeah

And when you say "It is" what are you confirming?

[The Fonz]

It reads omgus at best, which is not inherently scummy but is a thing I've seen you do that contributes to your perceived toxicity.

So let's turn the volume down. If your "I know there's scum" thing is just your usual overconfidence,

then admit that now

, and I at least will let it slide.

OK. Sorry I was confused because after that I said "Unless you genuinely do have role info" so I didn't know if you were confirming he did have info or the opposite, which is kind of important.

[The Fonz]

Well I know for a straight out fact 1 of the people on my starting wagon is scum.

there is no "I think" here.

u said u knew. How would u know?

and to be honest, a game with 13 scum and u pick the lowest possible # seems a bit...eh

Because I don’t believe my wagon to be pure town.

Please acknowledge me. I made a long post addressed to you, quite rude to ignore it.

I don't believe your wagon is pure town but I don't think it's actually more scum than random atm. I believe you personally are more likely to be wrong in identifying the scum on your wagon than basically anyone else because you can't separate seeing things as scummy from your own feeling of persecution. Please look offwagon

[The Fonz]

Actually, better idea

VOTE: insomnia

I’m just gonna vote top poster all day

Last post, see you in 24 hours

Someone has lurker friends, I see.

Usually its a hot take to go for the top posters first.

I

Yeah, as BB says in the post above, I don't think this is him defending lurker buddies; it's kind of scummy to imply as such. I think this is the usual NAI argument between "We must get rid of spammers, the game will become unreadable which hurts town morale" and " Lol you knew what you signed up for, spammers spamming is NAI. "

[The Fonz]

Vote: Sausasaurus Rex

I get newbie scum vibes off their entry post.

[The Fonz]

LA from tomorrow, btw, I have three 12.5hr night shifts back to back. Ergo, I intend to ignore TSE today, and if he's still an active issue in the game by Thursday I'll work out what to do with him.

[The Fonz]

LA from tomorrow, btw, I have three 12.5hr night shifts back to back. Ergo, I intend to ignore TSE today, and if he's still an active issue in the game by Thursday I'll work out what to do with him.

Why would you ignore me?
Why am I suddenly being disrespected.

@Wake

Why am I being disrespected?

A) You have ignored me reaching out to you
B) Making the conversation revolve around you is not good for town
Kthanxbai

[The Fonz]

I'd have expected town TSE to throw a hissy fit in reaction to being the first wagon tbh, do any of you who were actively scumreading him want to explain how they think he'd have reacted differently?

What is LAMIST btw?

[The Fonz]

I'd have expected town TSE to throw a hissy fit in reaction to being the first wagon tbh, do any of you who were actively scumreading him want to explain how they think he'd have reacted differently?

What is LAMIST btw?

[The Fonz]

Look at me im so town

Thanks.

[The Fonz]

TSE is probably town tbh

That's a pretty strong statement.

It's mostly a gut feeling from the way his wagon formed and the fact that people want to policy lynch him despite there being no real reason to do that

Oh there is, he's annoying AF.

[The Fonz]

Interestingly you call it scum team 1 and scum team 2 when someone else just openly said the obvious 2nd choice of werewolf...

Considering your word choice is probably more scummy than the dude who didnt

Why is werewolf the "obvious 2nd choice"? Why does Kirari's choice of nomenclature carry so much weight with u?

I mean, why in the world is it "scummy" that I didn't call the 2nd scum team wolves?

Yeh, multiball more often has Red and Blue mafias, or whatever, than Mafia and Wolves. Don't agree for second that it is "Obvious." And the list with Masons in is just weird.

[The Fonz]

fonz we are lynching TSE today, vote there

Not if I have anything to say about it.

shoulda used a better fakeclaim then.

Why would he would fakeclaim Loud Bodyguard as scum though?

There's some sense there depending on what scum role people are, but yeah, bodyguard claims are self resolving when made this early.

[The Fonz]

ESPECIALLY in a game this size, especially in a multiball. I have zero interest in lynching the replacement tbh. Now Sausasaurus on the other hand...

[The Fonz]

Actually I lied.
I want to also again remind the person who replaces into my slot to Hard Scum areas Nero for life.
And NEVER EVER protect the guy.
TY.
That will be it for me this game.

Yeah this is kinda why you're annoying

[The Fonz]

People who keep saying that the wagon on TSE is just a policy lynch are not reading the game

Scummy looking claimed loud bodyguard in a multiball. Chill.

[The Fonz]

Two nights of actions he would have to claim honestly, with limited ability to move between targets. He's got to be loud, that makes no sense as a fakeclaim. Claiming BG makes no sense if he's rolecop/tracker or whatever and pretty questionable sense if he's a blocker. Maybe he's a scum protective, but then claiming limits his ability to protect buddies later. I think most likely sitch is he is town loud BG, second is he claimed honestly but is still scum. Third would be that he is something like a watcher.

Buying a couple of days in a fifty player game doesn't do much for scum.

[The Fonz]

Nah, don't think Profi is a good D1 lynch either. Join me on Sausa?

[The Fonz]

@bob

He's got a bunch of votes on him already and a lot of them feel very opportunistic. His play itself doesn't really warrant the scum reads in my opinion and the fact that so many are quick to jump and vote him here points towards him being town.

why is he more than null to you

You say his play doesnt warrant beign scum read.

One what about his play means you dont get why players scum read him?

two your saying you have reason to not scum read him. Thats different from town reading a player as you infact said you did.

so again why do you town read him?

Not why you think town should not be scum reading him and instead null on him but why you town read him.

Dude, the answer is literally in the post you quote.

[The Fonz]

Fonz, lets say that we don't lynch TSE today. Are we going to pl his slot d3 for not being dead?

b/c @ this point I HIGHLY doubt the 2nd scum team or the SK or even the first team (if I'm wrong *gasp*) are going to shoot him.


Are u a member of the TSE/profi scum team or something?

I'm not committing to d3 specifically, for reasons that should be obvious. Look, every time someone makes a self resolving claim, the person SRing them the hardest flips out and prophesies doom if we don't lynch em THIS VERY MOMENT. But the claims remain self resolving. In a world where he's scum and not a BG, he still has to target an obvious nk target every night,and eventually an obvious nk target is going to be an actual nk target. If anything if he's scum the restriction this puts on their NKs is of bigger weight than any role he might have. It's a fifty player game. There is no way he makes it anywhere near LYLO.

[The Fonz]

Whats ive really noticed though is that aaron is defending tse pushing a town read when so far he hasnt come up with a reason. He hasnt simply come up with sayign oh tse claimed loud bg we should leave him for later even if he is null to me. But that he is town

He even says oh its was lareg wagon but missing to mention that we in 50 player game and in 13 player games every now and the you see 4 player all town wagons in rvs. 4 scaled up to 50 player game is 15.

Aaron has said that he thinks TSE is town because of scummy votes on him, ie that he thinks those voters are scum pushing a mislynch. That's a reason.

[The Fonz]

Interestingly you call it scum team 1 and scum team 2 when someone else just openly said the obvious 2nd choice of werewolf...

Considering your word choice is probably more scummy than the dude who didnt

Why is werewolf the "obvious 2nd choice"? Why does Kirari's choice of nomenclature carry so much weight with u?

I mean, why in the world is it "scummy" that I didn't call the 2nd scum team wolves?

i feel like you were more conscious of your word choice, whereas the other post just said werewolves without worrying... I feel like scum would concern themselves with details like that more than town.

This really seems like a nothing point. This seems more like a matter of personal nomenclature than something one really worries about the wording on. Maybe there's something here but I'm not buying it yet.

It's one of many "I don't think it's a thing, but can see why someone who is genuinely scumhunting could think of was" in the game.

[The Fonz]

So this is the post that stood out to me after a skim

Well I know for a straight out fact 1 of the people on my starting wagon is scum.
Also, do you all honestly think I’m still toxic?

Hey, TSE. Here you imply role information, then do fuck all with it. If you know for a fact, either you have specific info on a single player, or you have some broader "there are x scum in players abc" type knowledge, or you're scum and hinting that you're being bussed like Nero suggests. If you don't, you're completely full of shit.

If you have role info that means town can make a better lynch, then hinting at it rather than outing it means you're already playing badly in an anti town way.

If you're hinting bus, you're scum.

If you're just making it up to try to redirect attention away from you to your Wagoners, then you're being kinda toxic already.

So ten pages in, I'm already left thinking you're either scum, playing really badly, or toxic.

Your Nero vote is pretty bad -even if he's slightly misreading one post, he's showing scumhunting motive. It reads omgus at best, which is not inherently scummy but is a thing I've seen you do that contributes to your perceived toxicity.

So let's turn the volume down. If your "I know there's scum" thing is just your usual overconfidence, then admit that now, and I at least will let it slide. Then tell me something you've noticed about a player NOT on your wagon, and not relating to something they've said about you. Can be anything game relevant. I feel like if you direct your energy at scumhunting on your own wagon, it will continue to come across as defensive and omgussy and look toxic or scummy, making the wagon a self fulfilling prophecy. If you want to help town, look elsewhere, except if you genuinely DO have helpful role info.

This just seems like a massive misrep it's obvious tse means atleast 1 scum on the wagon.

VOTE: The fonz

It's not misrep, he literally said he knew for a fact there were scum on the wagon. Now, obviously he didn't, which i had as the most likely scenario; he was massively overconfident, which is normal for TSE. You are correct that the post wasn't intended to sort TSE; it was intended to reach on to TSE, in a non confrontational manner, to try to get him to stop doing non alignment indicative flailing and OMGUS, and persuade him to play in a manner more conducive to me getting a read on him.

[The Fonz]

So ... in a neighborhood with {redacted} but Black Ranger is in there. He did the whole "Look at how super helpful I am being" entrance combined with the "you know there's totally scum in this neighborhood ... you REALIZE that right?" thing. For as long as I've been on this site, and probably before that, those two behaviors in a neighborhood have been super scum indicative.
x.

Yeah, I'm willing to lynch on the basis of this. Kirari pings me a bit. I have no idea why anyone town would ever speculate about who is and isn't a mason, or ask others to do so. And there are Nero-Kirari links; Nero reads like a partner who is trying to draw heat away from Hirari without committing to saying he has a town read. But the "neighbor who points out there might be scum in the hood is herself scum" tell is stronger than any day one associative.

[The Fonz]

VOTE: Black Ranger

[The Fonz]

VOTE: Black Ranger

if you scum read kirari why not join Drixx there?

Did you read the post above? I scum read Black Ranger much harder than Kirari, where the case is basically links to you and some stuff that's just weird. Kirari is the kind of "Basically slightly better than random lynch I might go for at deadline." I think BR is scum. Why the hell would anyone vote the former over the latter?

[The Fonz]

Or to put it another way, since 26% of the game is non Town, I've got Kirari at somewhere like 30-35% scum equity and BR at like 60% (I wouldn't be shocked to see a town flip, but I'm expecting a scum flip there).

[The Fonz]

Why the hell would anyone vote the former over the latter?

Drixx did.

Drixx scum reads Hirari much harder than I do? Like Jesus, this isn't hard.

[The Fonz]

So this is the post that stood out to me after a skim

Well I know for a straight out fact 1 of the people on my starting wagon is scum.
Also, do you all honestly think I’m still toxic?

Hey, TSE. Here you imply role information, then do fuck all with it. If you know for a fact, either you have specific info on a single player, or you have some broader "there are x scum in players abc" type knowledge, or you're scum and hinting that you're being bussed like Nero suggests. If you don't, you're completely full of shit.

If you have role info that means town can make a better lynch, then hinting at it rather than outing it means you're already playing badly in an anti town way.

If you're hinting bus, you're scum.

If you're just making it up to try to redirect attention away from you to your Wagoners, then you're being kinda toxic already.

So ten pages in, I'm already left thinking you're either scum, playing really badly, or toxic.

Your Nero vote is pretty bad -even if he's slightly misreading one post, he's showing scumhunting motive. It reads omgus at best, which is not inherently scummy but is a thing I've seen you do that contributes to your perceived toxicity.

So let's turn the volume down. If your "I know there's scum" thing is just your usual overconfidence, then admit that now, and I at least will let it slide. Then tell me something you've noticed about a player NOT on your wagon, and not relating to something they've said about you. Can be anything game relevant. I feel like if you direct your energy at scumhunting on your own wagon, it will continue to come across as defensive and omgussy and look toxic or scummy, making the wagon a self fulfilling prophecy. If you want to help town, look elsewhere, except if you genuinely DO have helpful role info.

This just seems like a massive misrep it's obvious tse means atleast 1 scum on the wagon.

VOTE: The fonz

It's not misrep, he literally said he knew for a fact there were scum on the wagon. Now, obviously he didn't, which i had as the most likely scenario; he was massively overconfident, which is normal for TSE. You are correct that the post wasn't intended to sort TSE; it was intended to reach on to TSE, in a non confrontational manner, to try to get him to stop doing non alignment indicative flailing and OMGUS, and persuade him to play in a manner more conducive to me getting a read on him.

This makes no sense to me. Your vote was a reach but not to sort him or test a reaction but to correct TSE behaviour so he acts more in line with your will so you can eventually read him???? Voting him will calm him down how?

Erm, you're lying. I never voted TSE, so the rest of that house of cards collapses based on that. I was reaching out to him, not attacking him.

[The Fonz]

yeah ok, i'll prob lynch you down the line if I haven't solved yet b/c that "there's not enough content to justify those reads" seems like a load of bullshit.

Yeah, I wouldn't count on that, you're getting lynched before he is.

[The Fonz]

I just didn't see enough content to justify those reads.

Please point out the reads you're referring to.

he's talking about

scum team 1

insomnia
TrueSoulEnergy
profii
Egix96

scum team 2

Garmr

scum on someones team

SausasaurusRex
Black Ranger

Since when is there more then 1 Mafia Team?

-I’ll put this for each message I post. (Who ever replaces me MUST scum read Nero!)

Since it was announced in the sign up thread and the opening posts.

Please, either commit to staying in your next post, or commit to repping out and don't make a next post.

[The Fonz]

Yeah, I wouldn't count on that, you're getting lynched before he is.

says the guy defending the snork out of scum profii and TSE.

Yeah, your reads are bad and you should feel bad. Unless you are scum ofc.

[The Fonz]

Dave, you've played with Nero a fair bit too, right?

[The Fonz]

I don't know what to think of fonz anymore. I noticed myself looking for reasons to scum read him when I tried to give a reread so my bias seems to tilt that way.

Doing this is scummy but admitting to it is perversely town.

[The Fonz]

but there are plenty of town that post reasonless read list. Mastina for instance.

Posting reads lists like that, at least to me, is a good way to make yourself look busy without actually doing anything or participating in discussion, which is scummy. I think it's also unreasonable to have reads on every single player who's posted up until now which is why it looks especially faked in a game of this size.

I agree that lists of all the players are in general scummy, illusion of content type stuff. I can buy Hirari's as just being them wanting to test their early reads against random, though it slightly pings they do it in the thread, and the inclusion of guessing masons is anti town.

Nero it's less the fact that he has seven reads as that they are ALL scumreads. He attempted to call a four person associational, call a fifth person scum but not aligned with the other four, and two people
confidently scum based on individual tells (since he stated no preference for either team) on page 13 of a fifty player game. That is so utterly ridiculous a thing to do that I guess a lot of people can't conceive of anyone being that stupid, and think it's fake instead.

[The Fonz]

So ... in a neighborhood with {redacted} but Black Ranger is in there. He did the whole "Look at how super helpful I am being" entrance combined with the "you know there's totally scum in this neighborhood ... you REALIZE that right?" thing. For as long as I've been on this site, and probably before that, those two behaviors in a neighborhood have been super scum indicative.
x.

Yeah, I'm willing to lynch on the basis of this. Kirari pings me a bit. I have no idea why anyone town would ever speculate about who is and isn't a mason, or ask others to do so. And there are Nero-Kirari links; Nero reads like a partner who is trying to draw heat away from Hirari without committing to saying he has a town read. But the "neighbor who points out there might be scum in the hood is herself scum" tell is stronger than any day one associative.

How strong is this tell and do you or Drixx have any examples of this behavior? I'm a little familiar with hood mechanics, but not enough to determine one way or the other.

So the problem is a lot of my games are so long ago that remembering specifics is hard. There's one game that sticks in my mind where a scum did that, all the town neighbors

actually had it in their role pms that the hood contained scum

but explained it so badly that we didn't lynch the scum. I'll look for it.

[The Fonz]

Mafia 70: Traditional, from 2007. Can't link as on tablet, but can be searched.

[The Fonz]

but there are plenty of town that post reasonless read list. Mastina for instance.

Posting reads lists like that, at least to me, is a good way to make yourself look busy without actually doing anything or participating in discussion, which is scummy. I think it's also unreasonable to have reads on every single player who's posted up until now which is why it looks especially faked in a game of this size.

I'm sure im a bit bias since i think alot of thier reads line up with mine. I understand the "they aren't adding to discussion and is scummy" but im just not gung-ho about it. And honestly, Fonz getting so bent out of shape over it seems kinda off when there are shit tons of ppl that are scummier and doing way less. I mean, I can't lie here. Kirari hasn't done much, I understand that. Fonz' whole spiel about me not scum reading her and being frantic about it seems so agenda-driven.

Eh, I'm not bent out of shape over it, I think trying to call a four player associative day one is super dumb, but not outside your town range. I just think it's decent scumhunting on the part of those who flagged it up. Your votes are poorly reasoned, but that's also what I see as normal! Nero. The only thing that really pings is the deflecting off of Kirari.

[The Fonz]

Actually, Nero, your TSE push is the towniest thing about you. Being right and having town motive are different things.

[The Fonz]

Official Vote Count

1.04

TrueSoulEnergy

(11): NorwegianboyEE, Chemist1422, Nero Cain, Dolly Parton, tictac, Jackal711, Kirari Momobami, Pink Ball, Cat Scratch Fever, profii, Elsa Jay

Garmr

(3): Black Ranger, bob3141, Yiley

Jackal711

(2): AaronFrost, TrueSoulEnergy

bob3141

(1): SausasaurusRex

SausasaurusRex

(1): The Fonz

Kirari Momobami

(1): Drixx

NotAJumbleOfNumbers

(1): insomnia

Hectic

(1): Egix96

Elsa Jay

(1): Almost50

The Fonz

(1): Garmr

gobbledygook

(1): davesaz

Not Voting

(26): Pine, Not Known 15, Jamelia, Uncrowned, hersho, NotAJumbleOfNumbers, DrDolittle, Hectic, Golden Robster, VaultDweller, Amrun, UltimatePlank, clidd, pisskop, QuantumQuasar, dsjstr, EeveeLution Army, BBMolla, kagesong, ar98mubarik, Something_Smart, Rhinox, eth0s, Non Imh, gobbledygook, Emperor FlippyNips

With 50 alive, it takes 26 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2020-03-22 10:04:00)

I'm voting Black Ranger, and I spelled it right, and I used vote tags.

[The Fonz]

So I think I have solid as fuck reasoning compared to your "GRRRR YOU'RE NOT SCUM READING KIRARI!" but you only had like a what? 30% chance you thought she was scum?

Yeah, see, you say some stuff that makes some sense and shows town motive then come out with this misrep. Same as how you misrepped people voting you for looking like you were

faking

reads as voting you for

having

reads. I'm not, remotely, GRRRRing about anything you're doing, and the problem with your behaviour towards Kirari is not that you don't SR her, it's that you're clearly trying to derail her wagon, but won't state a TR there.

You're talking to me like I'm tunneling you, but you're not even in my top handful of people I'm thinking of lynching.

[The Fonz]

In fairness, Kage hasn't played with me b4 (i don't think) so he gets a little leeway but come on "you can't have reads early game". What the ever loving fuck is that shit?

That is you misrepresenting him.

[The Fonz]

VOTE: TSE

Nero Cain is town.

The Fonz first post really pinged me as scummy.

Calling me scummy while also voting TSE is odd.

[The Fonz]

Calling me scummy while also calling TSE scum makes no sense, because I was fairly openly coaching him in thread, trying to pull him out of what looked like a self destructive cycle. You wanna claim I'm scum trying to pocket him, wrong but not unreasonable. But clearly if we were partners, I'd do that in scum PT, so gobble hadn't thought things through and isn't trying to analyse anyone's thought process. Worse, he was in MM2 where Miss Lynch fairly successfully tried the same strategy with TSE.

[The Fonz]

Calling me scummy while also calling TSE scum makes no sense, because I was fairly openly coaching him in thread, trying to pull him out of what looked like a self destructive cycle. You wanna claim I'm scum trying to pocket him, wrong but not unreasonable. But clearly if we were partners, I'd do that in scum PT, so gobble hadn't thought things through and isn't trying to analyse anyone's thought process. Worse, he was in MM2 where Miss Lynch fairly successfully tried the same strategy with TSE.

You realize there’s 3 anti-town factions in this game right? What within this analysis precludes you being on a different scum team than TSE?

None, I'd just expect you to flag up that nuance if it were part of your actual thought process.

[The Fonz]

I mean don't get me wrong, obviously that post was

actually

town as fuck and dripped with obvtown motive, and it doesn't really make sense for me to pick

fucking TSE

as the guy to try pocket. But some wrong reads are understandable, and some are just WTF.

[The Fonz]

None, I'd just expect you to flag up that nuance if it were part of your actual thought process.

Do you post everything you think about the game?

———

Does it bother you that I will treat this game as I treated MMII, and by that I mean I will read nothing until Day 2/3?

Worked out for the town last time.

I tend to justify my top couple of suspicions, unless I'm withholding them in a kind of "I wonder who sees what I see" sense. I'm not a fan of giving people a pass to day 2/3, too many others are also trying that here.

[The Fonz]

Anyway, I'm going LA now. Please give some scrutiny to Sausa when he reappears, one off entry post then vanished warrants attention. I also think CSF is probably the most likely scum of the CSF/Nero/Kirari troika.

[The Fonz]

Oh wow if Kirari isn't scum she comes from the Titus school of super arrogant and super wrong. The whole "You're too smart to suspect me" thing is such a scum move tho.

[The Fonz]

Literally no one would assume that.

[The Fonz]

Literally no one would assume that.

Okay, why would you *assume* I'm mason fishing *instead* of assuming something simpler like *listing townreads*?

Why is the assumption that I am mason fishing in a game with no confirmed masons more reasonable than literally any other explanation?

Erm, the likely explanation seemed to me, and I think I said this, that you were trying to compare your early day one gut reads to random in order to ascertain how well you do, and maybe you might repeat the exercise once every few months. But I couldn't figure out why you had a Mason tier, and given that you included the two players that jokeclaimed masons in that tier it felt ever so slightly off.

In general, I have felt for years that posting lists of every player in the game is useless for town, and more something scum do to look town. I find it much more town to just talk about 2-3 of your strongest reads at a time. So when someone is like "This is trying to look town rather than trying to help town behavior" I basically agree. It's not a slam dunk scum tell or anything, but it seems to have more scum than town utility. Claiming to have seven scum reads on p13 of a fifty player game like Nero did is fucking ludicrous. I'd probably vote there based on that were it not for my looooong history with Nero, and knowing that he's a fucking ludicrous person. So when someone else points that out, that gets a check mark for decent scum hunting.

[The Fonz]

Fonz, why do you think I'm scum?

I feel like you are trying to ingratiate yourself with a Nero/Kirari block, siding with them but showing much less conviction in your stances than they do, somewhat hiding behind them. Anyway as y'all know I'm LA so signing off for the rest of the day now.

[The Fonz]

In general, I have felt for years that posting lists of every player in the game is useless for town, and more something scum do to look town. I find it much more town to just talk about 2-3 of your strongest reads at a time.

Okay

So, why are you not voting Drixx, who thinks it's productive to give detailed reads on 17 players in the game when I don't have 17 scumreads?

Because I side with Drixx in your argument. Basically, he's saying you don't actually have reads on everyone you've stated a read on, and in asking you to provide justifications he's actively expecting you not to be able to.
The reason he thinks this is because he thinks your reads are fake, and you don't actually have them - you're just claiming you do to fake the appearance of scumhunting.

[The Fonz]

Yeah tictac's reaction to Titus' replace is

really bad.

[The Fonz]

Yeah tictac's reaction to Titus' replace is

really bad.

There's room for you on tictac's wagon.

Yeah I'm considering it obvs but am just about to step into work so want to have read beyond a skim before I change a vote, if I'm gonna.

[The Fonz]

or Fonz, yeah I'd accept a fonz lynch as well.

GDIAF.

[The Fonz]

Popping in on break. BR is a good lynch, tictac is a good lynch. Titus is a bad lynch. I'm not as sold on tictac as I was earlier. Reason being: I remembered him being on TSE early, and then voting Titus when she replaced in and expressed suspicion of him. I'd kind of assumed he'd gone elsewhere in between, which would meant his 'suspicion' of the slot had gone on the back burner, only to be revived when the leading wagon replacement showed interest in him. But actually, he'd been on TSE/Titus the whole time, which makes the revote extremely wtf, but not quite as scummy as I thought. He should probs explain why he felt the need to vote Titus when already voting her. His mech arguments are crap, but I don't think that's scummy in itself.

[The Fonz]

he's been tunneling tse/Titus all day. If you want to argue that he's scum that's doing that fine but that just seems null 2 me. I think the uproar of "OMG he voted Titus." is stupid.

There's nothing in that slot that would be particularly difficult or risky for scum.

[The Fonz]

VOTE: SausasaurusRex Go look at that ISO and tell me it isn't newbie scum.

[The Fonz]

VOTE: SausasaurusRex Go look at that ISO and tell me it isn't newbie scum.

What makes you think he is newbie scum. His iso isnt much but what about it makes you think he is scum.

As as town rex never gave much progression

Overly self conscious random vote that spends a little too long making clear it's random, unvotes rvs without doing anything else, asks a couple questions about hood mechanics that he apparently draws no conclusion from, votes the growing wagon with no new reasoning and equivocates in that by saying he's the person to vote "now." Reads like someone who is unused to being scum, overly cautious and not sure what he should be doing with himself.

[The Fonz]

I dont get why so many are still on titus. Tse doubled down on his claim so titus cant back out of it. Migth be different question if that slot keeps suriving the nigh. As with the size of the game there are going to be many times his claim can be put to the test.

Now some are hard pushign and atleast it looks like conviction but some reads on that slot are quite weak. So dont get given the chances that the slot can be self resolving they want to kill it today.

. Name someone who you think is on that wagon whose reasoning you think is weak/surprises you that they are still on Titus, please.

[The Fonz]

Yah that last post doesn't exactly scream "Not newbie scum" to me.

[The Fonz]

To be a little less glib: Sausa, who are these town reads you trust? You literally haven't said one word about anyone's alignment. Why are you voting Tictac? Given that Tictac is one of the leading wagons, how does voting there square with the extreme caution you seem to be presenting yourself as having with regard to everything else?

[The Fonz]

Also about to step into work so want to say this first: I actually find Nero's defence of Tictac relatively convincing. I can buy that Tic started off wanting to PL TSE then just hated the claim.

[The Fonz]

Man i hate this amrun post to the point where I want to call her and Titus both scum

Funny I had the exact opposite reaction.

[The Fonz]

In response to TheFonz’s post on who my townreads are, my strongest ones are Elsa Jay and Insomnia, who both voted Tictac. I trust their judgement.

Cool. Why?

[The Fonz]

I'm confused at people attacking Amrun over the Titus thing. Amrun claims that Titus SAID she was voting those wagons because they were the alternative, therefore a claim that she "Just so happened" to suspect those roles was false. Multiple people reacted like "What insight do you have into Titus' thoughts?" Amrun is saying Titus stated that outright, that should be empirically verifiable and doesn't require psychic powers?

[The Fonz]

Nero is town but his scumreads are DOODOO.

much like I said to fonz earlier. No one has flipped yet so you don't know if my reads are wrong or right unless you have more info than the rest of us.

Nah, it's a process issue. Your logic is bad so your reads are bad. How can you know if a read is bad pre flip? If the justification is bs.

[The Fonz]

Or to put it another way Nero you have so fucking many scum reads (or "reads") you're gonna be right on a few of them by simple chance.

[The Fonz]

So, taking a cursory glance at the game, I have a few developing reads, but not much yet. In general I really hate Day 1 and do much better on Day 2 and onward, because I have solid information to work with.

Before I post my reads I have a question because it's not clear: are we dealing with more than one Scum faction? Because the way I read it in the OP it feels like there being two Scum factions is definitely possible.

VOTE: tictac

L-10

Two groupscum factions and an SK is mod confirmed, and I am mildly dubious of how genuine your claimed ignorance of this is.

[The Fonz]

@CSF: Nah Nero is clearly wrong. If you're scum, surviving a day or two days or whatever extra survival isn't much use. You'd want to claim something that doesn't both create a paper trail AND make everyone suspect you if you're still alive D4.

[The Fonz]

can you explain it to me then? I'm not really understanding.

If your scum reads are no better than a monkey throwing darts, you'd still only have a 9% chance of all your scum reads being town. Also, inb4 "So you're saying there's a chance?"

[The Fonz]

Or to put it another way, you could have two scum in your eight strong scum reads and still be doing worse than the abovementioned monkey.

[The Fonz]

I have really solid reads sometimes. This discredit doesn't feel great.

Being attacked with infuriating crap logic and motivated reasoning also does not feel great.

[The Fonz]

Or to put it another way, you could have two scum in your eight strong scum reads and still be doing worse than the abovementioned monkey.

but I could still be wrong on all 8.

I have a 2% chance to be right on any of those 8 So im not getting

so fucking many scum reads (or "reads") you're gonna be right on a few of them by simple chance.

The chance of any given player being scum is 13/50. If you're town yourself, 13/49. I don't know where you get 2% from. Pick a player at random, they're scum just over 25% of the time.

[The Fonz]

Yeah, it makes sense if you've not read. Problem is it makes no sense to assume that if you have read and know the claimed BG was wagoned way before either of those wagons rose up and neither have ever gotten close.

[The Fonz]

normal to think at least one of the counterwagons is scum

it is? ?

Yes, and it is SPECIFICALLY normal for Titus. In the just finished Boon game she spent most of her time arguing that because there were three wagons day one, the one that took off was town, therefore one of the others had to be scum.

[The Fonz]

Yeah, it makes sense if you've not read. Problem is it makes no sense to assume that if you have read and know the claimed BG was wagoned way before either of those wagons rose up and neither have ever gotten close.

Right, but we know that Titus has NOT.

(I haven’t read that portion of the game either, but that’s irrelevant.)

it's relevant in the sense someone has to mention it at some point to let Titus know her reads are based on untrue assumptions.

[The Fonz]

I'm probs going to try to avoid engaging Nero the rest of the day tbh because I'm not especially interested in lynching him and I don't think talking to him helps me scumhunt.

[The Fonz]

Signing off for the night, my break is nearly over. @Titus please read Sausasaurus' ISO, it's a short one and I think he's a better counterwagon than Tictac to you.

[The Fonz]

I'm probs going to try to avoid engaging Nero the rest of the day tbh because I'm not especially interested in lynching him and I don't think talking to him helps me scumhunt.

If you're going to avoid Nero you could talk to me when I tried to engage with you

I'm sorry Punk Bill I've been popping in and out whenever I get the chance. Actually off work a few days, should be able to go back over things I missed soon.

[The Fonz]

OK. On Rex claim.

Lot of shitty takes flying about here.

Firstly, no clue why anyone other than SR thinks he's a locked in NK. If we run anyone else up, they're also decently likely to claim not VT, and if who we run up is scum, it's a certainty. I suspect in a 50p game we have a whole bunch of PRs with moderate power and moderate-heavy gating. That's even before we get into the idea scum might just want to kill good players or people with correct reads.

Second, tracker quite often a scum power.

More importantly: Sausa as town in MN 2114:

Meta is never a good indicator, so it doesn't change my mind.

Here, Sausa immediately goes to meta defense when attacked. Also like holy shit just read that ISO, there's nothing like the reticence to give reads, vote or go on the attack we see here.

I don't want to run up 2-3 more players and get similar claims from each. I want to lynch this.

Also Sausa in Mini Normal 2114:

A slightly far-reaching read is better than no read.

It's night and day.

[The Fonz]

Le sigh, we're going to have forced six claims by the end of the day aren't we?

[The Fonz]

WaS tHaT a ScUmSlIp!?

<3

[The Fonz]

how would that even be a scumslip?

Irony 100

[The Fonz]

how would that even be a scumslip?

Because of scum having killing on the brain?

The last time someone jumped on me saying something I did was a scum slip, they were scum. Are you scum here, Chkflip?

WhEn PeOpLe WrItE lIkE tHiS, dOn'T tAkE iT lItErAlLy

He wasn't.

[The Fonz]

So I wonder if there are scum in the naked vote sheeple?

Almost certainly, but if you're trying to put together a 26 person wagon, it's gonna be impossible if you get cold feet at a couple of sus looking votes.

[The Fonz]

So I wonder if there are scum in the naked vote sheeple?

Is this a real question? I'd be real surprised if all the scumz were among the active growd.
How ya feel about lynching chemist?
dude has meta for getting paralyed as scum, and the little content that he does have is scummy.
I mean if we just wanna get

something

to the noose, then sure, let's listen to a second-hand report from drizz, it's not like the most horrible of all options.
if we wanna lynch scum however, we should:
VOTE: Chemist1422

This is twice you've voted the person you're already voting. your justification for the initial vote was that a portion of his ISO is funny. This post contains no argument. Do you care about convincing anyone else?

[The Fonz]

@CSF: Nah Nero is clearly wrong. If you're scum, surviving a day or two days or whatever extra survival isn't much use. You'd want to claim something that doesn't both create a paper trail AND make everyone suspect you if you're still alive D4.

Have you played with TSE before? Seems like you have him in high regard if you think that he wouldn't claim something as stupid as he did if he's scum. Or to sweeten it up, something as survivalistic as what he claimed.

I have, hence my early attempt to reach out to him. It's obviously possible TSE made a really stupid claim as scum that fucks himself over, but it's unclear why we should make that a priority given that, well, if he's scum he's already fucked himself (or rather Titus) over.

Sorry for the delay my dude.

[The Fonz]

This is twice you've voted the person you're already voting. your justification for the initial vote was that a portion of his ISO is funny. This post contains no argument. Do you care about convincing anyone else?

Kinda? It's never really been my experience that people sheep arguments, so I guess I care more about directing attention to people I find scummy, and people can find their own reasoning from there.
I could repeat the thing about his Hec-push, but I doubt it'll convince people who didn't get convinced the first time.

I mean, your posts on him are one saying it's surprising he missed a wake impersonation and one saying part of his ISO was funny. In a 50p game, I think stuff needs to be elaborated on a bit more than that for anyone to pay attention. As it stands, you look like you're happy enough to be a vanity wagon.

[The Fonz]

I still want Sausa. I don't believe this wagon is completely dead? Am

[The Fonz]

The Faradaytell has never failed me please vote Black Ranger

Explain it and I'll think about it.

[The Fonz]

I mean I searched Faraday tell and all I got was a load of people asking Faraday to tell them who to vote for smh

[The Fonz]

Like srsly Molla just be nice and explain the damn tell, I think I've caught scum so I'm not shifting based on you just being super confident, like loads of fuckers are super confident here.

[The Fonz]

Out of everyone it had to be the town treestump

God damn it

Mornington Crescent?

[The Fonz]

Seeking replacements for Eth0s, hersho, Golden Robster, UltimatePlank, ar98mubarik, BBMolla, Non lmh, and Emperor flippyNips.

We should lynch one of these

Translation:

None of these is a member of my team

. Got it.

Funny, but I think it's more of an associative with the existing leading wagons than an anti associative for the lurkers.

[The Fonz]

Eh, I actually think for the size of game it's been both slow paced and relatively focused. We had a strong TSE wagon with some people doubting it, a couple of smallish counterwagons on BR and Tictac. After TSE got replaced a lot of the policy lynch energy dissipated and Tictac becomes top wagon, then there's a Sausa wagon that looks like it's going the distance then (imho wrongly) loses a lot of votes with his claim, while not disappearing. Now BR, who's kind of been a candidate all day but never leading has his moment in the spotlight. There are relatively few vanity wagons or secondary tunnelfeuds going on.

Anyone who is having trouble getting going can just start by saying if they like the BR wagon or not.

[The Fonz]

I do not have an opinion on the other wagons mentioned yet.

Cool. Like I said I'd suggest focusing on BR because he's currently leading.

[The Fonz]

So, uh, would really like a vc, and if anyone has time for an unofficial one that's cool too.

[The Fonz]

Creature replaces Emperor FlippyNips.

Talk about going from one extreme to the other

[The Fonz]

I make it nineteen black ranger votes and no one else in double figures atm. May be off by a couple if someone re voted him. It's less "consolidate onto leading wagons" as "Ye or nay on Black Ranger lynch."

[The Fonz]

L-2. Calling for claim.

[The Fonz]

Nah, a no lolhammers heuristic serves town in the long run.

[The Fonz]

I’m happy with a Black Ranger lynch, but I’ll wait for a claim or something from him before doing anything. Consider this a prod-dodge.

Sausaruas was the other probable Lynch right?

The previous leading wagon that was derailed by his claiming, yes. Still think he's a better lynch, but BR is a good one. I now won't believe any PR claim, since Ranger has had a chance to claim earlier this page and didn't.

[The Fonz]

Someone said Black ranger slipped or there was a tell or something. What's that about?

That, as far as I can tell, was memeposting/a reaction test on the part of Molla and a couple others.

[The Fonz]

"No, BR, my point is,

scum factions aren’t aware of having traitors

, so how come you even asked that question?"

huh

Is this the supposed Insomnia scum slip? Because that's not a scum slip. Just reads like someone pointing out that, in general, it's not usual for scum to know about the existence of traitors. Fwiw I find it hard to see how there could be traitors, given known scum group size here.

[The Fonz]

"No, BR, my point is,

scum factions aren’t aware of having traitors

, so how come you even asked that question?"
8
huh

Is this the supposed Insomnia scum slip? Because that's not a scum slip. Just reads like someone pointing out that, in general, it's not usual for scum to know about the existence of traitors. Fwiw I find it hard to see how there could be traitors, given known scum group size here.

Scum would already know if they had a traitor since 6 is the known scum team size. So getting into a scum pt with 5 or less players makes it a no brainer.

Yes, this much I have ascertained, and why I think it's clearly not a scum slip. Either there aren't traitors so no one is TMIing here, or there are traitors so there'd be fewer people in the PT, in which case Somni is assuming false something which scum would know to be true, which is the opposite of a scum slip.

[The Fonz]

"No, BR, my point is,

scum factions aren’t aware of having traitors

, so how come you even asked that question?"

huh

Is this the supposed Insomnia scum slip? Because that's not a scum slip. Just reads like someone pointing out that, in general, it's not usual for scum to know about the existence of traitors. Fwiw I find it hard to see how there could be traitors, given known scum group size here.

Scum would already know if they had a traitor since 6 is the known scum team size. So getting into a scum pt with 5 or less players makes it a no brainer.

Yes, I know this. But this means either no traitors, in which case there's no traitor knowledge to let slip, or that Insomnia is denying something scum would know to be true, which is the opposite of slipping.

[The Fonz]

Ugh. Sorry, I thought I lost the first post.

[The Fonz]

Nero Cain town
Black Ranger town
RCEnigma town
Jamelia scum

Explain this last if you would, cause its a slot I'd forgotten was in the game.

[The Fonz]

On a slight tangent, but why are people complaining about pace? We're not at 100 pages yet, and it's been eight days. Mainstream mafia 2 had forty players and was at 100 within three days. I remember because I was VLA for those three days!

[The Fonz]

I don't think a one post lurker whose one post has content is someone you're going to get 26 on.

BR do you or do you not scum read Amrun?

[The Fonz]

Oh looks like this game will die

Why? We're probably going to achieve lynch today (rl today).

[The Fonz]

Oh looks like this game will die

Why? We're probably going to achieve lynch today (rl today).

The empty slots won't go away

Let's see what happens with killing roles overnight first.

[The Fonz]

We don't have one hundred vigilantes...

We might have five.

[The Fonz]

At this point,I can understand having lots of SRs,we're 100 pages in. That said I've always thought town should only really comment on people that have wagons and people they think really ought to. By producing six detailed reads at l-2 and not prioritising between them, this looks like a look-town move not a help town move, and That's the vibe I get from BR in general. I still think this is better than random to flip scum, and I will hammer in an hour when I get up for work (just got up to pee lol).

[The Fonz]

Erm, ok.

[The Fonz]

Nah bruv, Drixx is obvtown.

[The Fonz]

How

Obviously scumhunting, obvious bee in his bonnet.

[The Fonz]

Scumhunting isn't exactly a great indicator of town when there's nobody in the game who knows who every scum is

Nah but it shows town motive and sticking your neck out like that risks crosskill if your reads are any good.

[The Fonz]

VOTE: Not Known 15
I'll consolidate in 24 h, but wanna see if this takes wind first.
Would also do Jackal711 (i assume he's still part of this)

Do you really expect that to take wind without you providing any reasons for him being scum? That's as good as a naked vote, tictac. If your name wasn't so similar to mine, I'd be giving you a menacing glare right now.

wolfy

I reacted same as hectic internally tbf

[The Fonz]

Black Ranger is fucking Menalque, isn't he?

[The Fonz]

Can I try to re-sell everyone on Sausa? Vig is pretty much self resolving, given that correct reaction to a vig fakeclaim is vigging, not counter claim or lynch. It's also reasonably likely to be a crosskill target even if scum.

Sausasaurus' claim that a novice tracker claim would be an obvious NK target was silly at the time and looks more so now, there's still no scumhunting there and there's the predictable "burst of posting under pressure, vanishes again as soon as pressure's off" activity dynamic. At best, that slot is very lacking in town motive. And are we otherwise just going to keep running people up until we get a VT claim?

[The Fonz]

@MOD: when you replace slots, you have to replace them in your voting program as well. I haven't had a vote since I replaced in. I'm sure the other replacements haven't either.

Might this mean BR was hammered after all?

[The Fonz]

As far as I can see, the "Black Banger" vote would have been ignored as misspelt, but there's no specific game rule saying that misspelling invalidates votes. So, uh, right now BE is Schroedinger's lynchee.

[The Fonz]

DON'T YOU KNOW RUN IT UP
YOU'VE GOT TO RUN IT UP

[The Fonz]

grumble grumble, we were doing so well. I really feel like Tictac is scum now.

Rex is supreme lynchbait and the way's he's playing now doesn't really differ far from what I've seen from him as town.

I disagree. The prior town game I read, he survived, and he was quite quick to throw out votes based on hunches and single lines of reasoning. His defence that he is always cautious that he offered here is simply not true.

[The Fonz]

grumble grumble, we were doing so well. I really feel like Tictac is scum now.

Rex is supreme lynchbait and the way's he's playing now doesn't really differ far from what I've seen from him as town.

I disagree. The prior town game I read, he survived, and he was quite quick to throw out votes based on hunches and single lines of reasoning. His defence that he is always cautious that he offered here is simply not true.

This is true. In my previous game, I played quite differently from how I normally play, but in all my other games I am a lot more cautious. It is true that I was not in my previous game, however.

So, if I can find another example of you throwing out reads and being somewhat aggressive I've caught you in a lie, then?

[The Fonz]

We're basically waiting for the mod to show up and clarify whether the day is already over, aren't we?

[The Fonz]

This is the second time tictac has been counterwagoned by Rex btw. If you're town it should strongly indicate to you that tictac is a fantastic vote here.

Vote tictac please.

This is untrue. Rex was counterwagoned by Tictac. If the second Rex wagon was a CW to anything, it was Jackal.

[The Fonz]

I don't hate the Tictac wagon enough to prefer no lynch, but I get "Bad playstyle lynchbait" vibes off the vanity wagon with no explanation stuff.

Can people wagoning him at least promise if he claims a weak to middling PR they won't just move on to another fresh wagon?

[The Fonz]

Lets get the Tictac claim then, I guess.

[The Fonz]

This is seeming more and more like role madness, bud.

Yep. I suspect that no more than a quarter of the town are VTs (well, citizens) if that.

[The Fonz]

Vote: Black Ranger

I'll let Insomnia or Drixx have the pleasure of explaining.

Lol, multiple ninjas. Very good.

[The Fonz]

Ah, I missed another page. Heeeexcellent.

[The Fonz]

Hi Pisskop.

I have homework I don't want to do with the red flip. With the amount of people suggesting I would fail, that suggests scum wanted to block me.

For now, voting Black Ranger is best. KM was particularly against that lynch and very against Drixx.

VOTE: Black Ranger

Yeah, we need to confirm this loud protection happened before we go too far elsewhere, even though BR is scum.

[The Fonz]

I guess i'll be a fucking robot in the future and pretend like scum dying doesn't excite me at all. Apparently showing any sort of emotions are scummy around these parts.

If the playerlist was smaller and/or less paranoid without 11 scum still around it wouldn't be as scumread.

Or be like me and keep doing it until they realize it's your standard response.

So the psychology behind it is this: scum realize that town players will be happy to see scum flips. Since they are telling a story and faking it (although in this case it would be mixed feelings), they tend to overdo it. NBEE made THREE posts demonstrating how "happy" he was.

Not that the psychology isn't valid, but this became such a cliche and ended up leading to so many town lynches based on actual town actually being happy that at one point I made a point of "Congratulating the Doc" every single time for about six months.

[The Fonz]

You expect people that you scum lean to be more likely to scum slip?

Still trying to process this sentence.

What's so hard to understand?

NBEE is making the point that obviously people he scum reads are more likely to scum slip, because only scum scum slip. Therefore, he thought the initial question was silly. It feels like you're talking past each other aggravated by the fact that you're both being somewhat sarcy making it hard to tell what the other actually means.

[The Fonz]

I guess i'll be a fucking robot in the future and pretend like scum dying doesn't excite me at all. Apparently showing any sort of emotions are scummy around these parts.

If the playerlist was smaller and/or less paranoid without 11 scum still around it wouldn't be as scumread.

Or be like me and keep doing it until they realize it's your standard response.

So the psychology behind it is this: scum realize that town players will be happy to see scum flips. Since they are telling a story and faking it (although in this case it would be mixed feelings), they tend to overdo it. NBEE made THREE posts demonstrating how "happy" he was.

Not that the psychology isn't valid, but this became such a cliche and ended up leading to so many town lynches based on actual town actually being happy that at one point I made a point of "Congratulating the Doc" every single time for about six months.

My anecdotal experience is that the tell is about 50/50. That's significantly better than random chance, so whenever I see someone over the top posting about how awesome the night was when scum die, it pings.

Fine. I don't buy it to nearly the degree you do; since you've, y'know, got a gun, I'm not sure it matters that much.

[The Fonz]

VOTE: Black Ranger[/quote] Just in case the auto vc, which btw is an abomination that should never be used, fucks up again.

[The Fonz]

Dammit VOTE: Black Ranger

[The Fonz]

Too bad we can't shoot Nero. He's pinging higher than average for red. My bet is Jackal visited me.

You're claiming roleblocked? LMFAOOOOOOOO

[The Fonz]

I was really hoping I'd be dead tbh.

NGL I kind of want you around.

[The Fonz]

Yeah I'm pretty sure the plan for today is to quicklynch BR, and leash Titus to Drixx.

[The Fonz]

Before we do, anyone in a hood with either dead scum wanna divulge if they said anything interesting?

[The Fonz]

Also keep in mind that a mafia roleblocker flipped.

Sure. We have the luxury of not lynching Titus today, since we have BR caught openwolfing, so let's make sure the vig lives so enough people die to make the game bearable and a trustworthy player can tell us whether they got a loud notification or not.

[The Fonz]

Just for the lols BR, which of the two kills are you claiming?

[The Fonz]

I lean Profii town over the whole KM/Nero/Profii "Werewolves vs Team 2" interaction.

[The Fonz]

For the record, BR posted a big list of about ten fake reads in the hood just before daybreak, none of which were on KM or Jackal.

[The Fonz]

Excellent. Can't imagine there's more than one scum left in that hood, so all hood members get a townpass for the next couple of days. This is particularly useful because half our hood independently decided overnight that we scumread you, SS.

[The Fonz]

@ Gobble

Eth0s
Jackal711
Something_Smart
Gold Robster
Kirari Momobami
Dolly Parton

Hmm, 2 scum of different colour in one neighborhood. And 4 other players. This might be a fallacy of a mindset, but i suppose it's likely that the rest of the players in the hood are town aligned?

We can't assume, but all of them are now much <random to flip scum. I'd guess there may be one more. They're bad targets for vigs or investigates, and we're obviously not lynching them before we're down to around half the playerbase left.

[The Fonz]

Insomnia and Fonz showed up straightaway at day start and confirmed.

I meant the quote with the gif that links to a topic I don't have permission to view, lol.

Yes, that's our hood.

[The Fonz]

I was really hoping I'd be dead tbh.

NGL I kind of want you around.

WHY

I ENJOY YOUR COMPANY OK

[The Fonz]

OK, I've thought about it and i'm going to break the habit of a lifetime and speculatively claim early. I'm a [gated, couldn't act night one] neapolitan. If any *One* player is a VT and fancies conftown status, please claim.

[The Fonz]

Unless someone else claims that scum kill, we're not lynching BR today guys. That's dumb.

Which scum kill? He didn't specify. That doesn't sound like a genuine vig to me. We've got another player claiming vig and a kill that makes much more sense, and scum presumably can nightkill - like literally if Wake has gone and made a 50p game with reduced nightkills there will be *words*. To posit BR town, we have to assume (at least) two vigs and two scumgroups plus an SK missed three kills between them. His ISO doesn't fit someone who killed Jackal. He actively criticised the Jackal wagon.

jackal counterwagon is LAMISTY (pronounced Lamisté)

KM might be the most town of them all, idk

[The Fonz]

literally if Wake has gone and made a 50p game with reduced nightkills there will be *words*.

That's not even normal.

Correct.

[The Fonz]

I shot Jackal. See the comment about not blinking in the face of provocation, doing my job.

Drixx is either scum or fakeclaiming. He spent the night complaining about dying rather than elaborating on hus wolfy generic SS scumread (though the entirety of the active hood SRs him I felt Drixx was just making an anti associative, SvS.) I posted reads on damn near a third of the players with nothing in response besides Fonz freaking out at my read on him.

So you expect everyone to believe there are THREE missing kills?

No, he's calling you lying scum.

It's a bold move cotton etc etc

[The Fonz]

VOTE: Black Ranger

There you have it folks.

Hold off the votes for 24hrs just in case there's a late claiming investigation, and to see if anyone claims VT for me.

[The Fonz]

Cool. Well we can start with Alyssa explaining the Jamelia vote.

[The Fonz]

VOTE: Black Ranger

All neighbours agree?

Yes, but can further people hold off voting until such time as we've made sure everyone can check in, and I've got an answer on the VT issue.

[The Fonz]

UNVOTE:

I actually believe Jackal as a vig kill more than KM.

Do you believe Jackal as a vig

from Black Ranger, who attacked the Jackal wagon

over a KM vig

from Drixx, who called KM scum all of yesterday?

[The Fonz]

Do you believe Jackal as a vig from Black Ranger, who attacked the Jackal wagon over a KM vig from Drixx, who called KM scum all of yesterday?

I mean I don't doubt that Drixx killed KM, so it's not really a good comparison. I don't think it's likely that vig-BR kills Jackal, but I don't think it's likely that scum-BR-claiming-vig kills Jackal either.

If you don't doubt Drixx killed KM, then any scum or SK scenario has to factor in that that claiming vig then doing that is not a viable long-term survival strategy. Drixx claimed to try to get BR lynched, BR claimed to try to save his own life.

[The Fonz]

Normally I'd be on your side, Elsa.

But this is a 50p game. There will be PLENTY of time for that.

Let everyone, or at least everyone who's not a chronic lurker, check in first. We literally had someone claim role info a couple of posts up from this post.

[The Fonz]

Plus you know the whole VT thing I keep going on about.

[The Fonz]

Let everyone, or at least everyone who's not a chronic lurker, check in first. We literally had someone claim role info a couple of posts up from this post.

Right, we just have to wait until the mod finds six people willing to replace into a 147-page game. Should be easy.

I'll give you the VT claim thing though, that's fair. If someone is null/lurky and VT, claim it so Fonz can check you.

Jesus Christ, what part of "Everyone who's not a chronic lurker?"

[The Fonz]

I mean I'm promoting waiting maybe 24hrs, fucking hell, what's the problem with that?

[The Fonz]

I'm not actually a vig I was just hoping to eat an NK so I didn't have to care about this game anymore.

I'd rather DM some DnD tbh.

You DM on Roll20 or ...?

He's currently DMing in mishmash, on paper, and it is awesome.

[The Fonz]

Drixx counterclaimed br day 1. The slip is supposedto be a night 1 thing but drixx shot elsewhere. Not a big deal to me, let the man buss in peace.

How did Black Ranger live past day 1 exactly then...?

Drixx argued about this in the hood, quite well I think. Basically he was like "BR is obvscum, he's not going to live beyond the first few days. I want to shoot someone who I'm confident is scum but who is hard to lynch."

[The Fonz]

I'm not actually a vig I was just hoping to eat an NK so I didn't have to care about this game anymore.

I'd rather DM some DnD tbh.

If this is your preference, why not vote Black Ranger?

---

The Fonz

Are you neighbors with Drixx and Black Ranger? Why wasn't this claimed while I was in the game on Day 1?

I wanted to keep it hidden as long as possible.

[The Fonz]

Let me ask something with a bit more substance.
What is the town motivation in hiding that you are in a neighborhood, assuming scum knows who is in it already?

Not clear that every scumgroup is in the hood. Hoods tend to stop being useful places to scumhunt once fully outed. If we got the scum in the hood relatively early, easier to secretly claim to hoodmates. No obvious benefit in outing.

[The Fonz]

Like how many times have you seen a hood completely dry up once it's outed?

[The Fonz]

That’s fair, but they are usually outted due to suspicion from within. I’m fine with not asking anymore info from your hood, but I did need to know so no false positives.

Yeah, my role also gets messed with by hoods, which is why i'm asking explicitly for ONE DAMN PERSON to claim vt so i can

die

go into night happy.

[The Fonz]

I targeted dsjstr last night. Not VT/Citizen. Went there because lurker who'd publicly claimed not to be a neighbor.

[The Fonz]

I still think Somni and Drixx are town. Lynching one of the hood lurkers wouldn't be a terrible idea. I think there was a weird KM interaction with one of them, lemme remember which.

[The Fonz]

VOTE: ar98mubarik

It was this one, where Kirari questioned Elsa's vote, then voted with her, then hopped off. Slight distancing vibe.

[The Fonz]

Bus drivers are non normal, right? So this is either a reaction test or a genuine 1:1.

[The Fonz]

So like I get the idea that we should kill lurkers, but why Mubarik? At worst that slot is just proxy controlled by its team. I think Vault Dweller and to a lesser extent Jamelia are trying to hide the fact that they are lurking.

We're going to have to prune the basically not posting players at some point. Ergo, better to do it sooner rather than later. We've lynched vigs the first two days. I feel like Kirari's behavior vis a vis ar98 is suspicious.

Also, like, VD seems to get voted for lurking every game.

[The Fonz]

Oh yeah we still need to keep an eye on the Titus sitch. I don't understand why Elsa thinks Titus landed on garmr. Theorizing that he was told about loud, but shouldn't have been because ascetic?

[The Fonz]

Also I think Wake is a health care worker and given the current world circumstances I don't blame him at all for flaking

Fair, though either handing it off or putting the game on hiatus would have been better etiquette than ghosting.

As a healthcare worker, if you're in an overwhelmed area stuff like this can go to hell if it has to.

And yeah, he did say he had H1N1 so if the bro can pick up modding on day five or something that's gravy.

[The Fonz]

OK, Titus,claim your target then?

[The Fonz]

Vigging

inactive slots is good for gamestate. Spending uptime and lynches on them is not.

We lynched vigs d1 and d2 though. We have to remove them or have inactives in late game. If we're going to remove them, better to do so early.

[The Fonz]

Imma wait for Drixx, since he should hopefully also have an investigation to claim.

[The Fonz]

@PP how did my vote not count? I didn't spell it wrong and i used vote tags.

[The Fonz]

Ah, thanks.

VOTE: ar98mubarik

[The Fonz]

Lol "Not enough to vote" on day three. A reminder this is Sausa miles off his town meta.

The argument isn't "All the lurkers are scum." The argument is that the scum ones still contribute to their WC, but the town ones are unlikely to be much of a threat to catch scum.

We need to flip the argument: unless ALL the inactives are town, they need to be lynched.

[The Fonz]

So wait BR!town means Drixx has to be scum right?

No. By the end of yesterday it was clear that their roleclaims weren't mutually exclusive: BR was claiming Odd Night Vig and Drixx was claiming JOAT with one vig shot. Which is actually less vig power than I would expect in a 50 player game, even added to tictac's claim.

What we learned is a load of people lied about their roles and shockingly enough it hurt town.

[The Fonz]

Why is it so impossible that a scum Drixx keeps CCing vigs to get them lynched?

It's not. I'm town reading him off play, not claim. Obviously the five kills in play/two deaths thing is hella weird. That said, we might be better able to assess his claim better if and when he

actually posts today.

[The Fonz]

OK, Titus,claim your target then?

Drixx.

Oh hey. Guess my revelation wasn't very revealing. Ho hum.

We did need confirmation from you.

[The Fonz]

Yeah. His posting just didn't make any sense coming from town.

[The Fonz]

I'm gonna give very little effort in mafiascum games until Thursday, because health worker. Sorry all.

[The Fonz]

I'm gonna give very little effort in mafiascum games until Thursday, because health worker. Sorry all.

K, we just need your vote on ANumbers. Then take your VLA. Bold it too so it's official.

I didn't say I was V/LA. I said I didn't give a shit.

[The Fonz]

@Titus: Already am. Goodnight.

[The Fonz]

Off to work. Briefly, a plea.

I get it's unsatisfying to lynch an inactive. I get that you get more info off lynching a scummy active. Sausa is SCREAMING scum to me. But unless you wish to gamble the game on no scum inactives, you have to lynch them sometime. And the delta between how informative the lurker lynch is and the active lynch is will only grow. We can examine interactions with the lurkers to increase our odds. Worse, inactive town PR can't act, but scum can usually submit for buddies in PTs. We need to hunker down and lynch only inactives and mech guilties for a few days until the game is more manageable.

[The Fonz]

I can't wait till lylo this game.

"can we lynch Ttus now?"

"we aren't lynching Titus b/c she'll self resolve!"

50 player game. We're not even down to forty. C'mon.

[The Fonz]

I have a q. Why is lynching AR, a emty slot that never posted,a better use of our lynch then an inactive slot that did post and has a little content?

A slightly active slot presents some possibility of sorting more accurately later. A slightly active slot can act at night if town, not just if scum and partners submitting for them. We started on mubarik specifically because there were weird Kirari associatives.

[The Fonz]

Because titus can be lynched at any time, and I have some information that will be relevant at that time. Information that gets more valuable in time.

This should be a hard veto on a Titus lynch today for anyone who's half awake.

[The Fonz]

My effectiveness is reduced because you constantly attack me and drown me out with your bullshit. I can't have a 1 on 1 with any of my reads town or scum.

This is basically why Nero is a net negative in nearly every game. He's a cancer on town morale. I'd be down for lynching him over this given that I'm also far from sure he's town, except that, louder for those in the back,

it is imperative we purge the inactives

or we end up with a game where scum kill active town, and basically both scumgroups have a veto over lynches by halfway.

[The Fonz]

I think you know who I mean.

no I don't. Stop being coy and answer the question.

Titus and Drixx.

How is Drixx “obvtown”?

When I read his posts, I think he's obviously coming from a town motivation.
Also see my recent response to Nero regarding how he played his role.

I agree with Nero that Drixx’s claim isn’t worth obvtown status, especially in multiball. As for his actions iirc he got into a fight with KM that wasn’t very good-looking, but I’m open to a fuller synopsis of Drixx’s play.

I'm pretty hard townreading him. It isn't beyond the realms of possibility that he's red, but I get townie frustration off his play. He's in the bottom half of active players in terms of scumminess, and we also shouldn't be lynching actives. I mean the slot will join the interminable replacement list now, but the ragequit also reads town.