Overkill 2: A Blood-Thirsty Stallone Themed Game

[DrewVa]

I do better at building townblocks, so RR, Farside/Alonzo, Alchemist21, Mala, Cheeky, Amzela, Profii.

In addition to Varsoon, Fortian, hebi, Pint, Tails, FL role crumb makes me think he could be town.

maybe Gamma, Bujaber as well?

@Nancy, can you talk to me about Alchemist and Profii townreads?

Also what did you see from Bujaber that looked AI? -D

[DrewVa]

This is the only majiffy comment that kinda bothered me in ISO, prolly not gonna vote here.

Although I don't think I'm great at reading Profii, I'm still leaning scum here

doesn't feel very genuine or like Bujab is trying to figure out the game at all.

Kinda with Varsoon here so far

Also I think Majiffy's push on Buj isn't that bad tbh -D

[DrewVa]

Only people who haven't played a lot with Creature ask this question. As a general rule: is creature posting? If yes, town. If no, scum.

If Creature comes back and ups his game, I'll take back my vote. But this is textbook scum creature.

This is surface level thinking from Chickadee and also untrue, although I don't know scum would be this lazy in their push on Creature so not sure it makes her scum. Chick, if you're town, do actually try to sort Creature based on play. -D

[DrewVa]

VOTE:VARSOON

For faking day actions

Does Alonzo actually give a F that Varoon faked a day action? I'm trying to think of any point in any game where Alonzo voted someone for a reason as lazy as this. Alonzo, have you been replaced by a doppelganger Alonzo? Is that why you keep doing Arnie quotes? -D

[DrewVa]

Didn't like his play regarding RCE and voting there--doesn't feel very genuine or like Bujab is trying to figure out the game at all.
I'd probably have put my vote elsewhere but Bujaber kind of slinked away the second the focus wasn't on them, which, in this game, rings as really slimy.
It's not even as if they're V/LA due to holidays or anything, because they have posted since, but their posts were so empty and weightless; lots of promises to do stuff they haven't done, calls me a sheep of DGB but never goes full-swing with DGB criticism for the naked vote, lots of talk about stuff that has no game impact.

Basically fits exactly the MO of what I think scum would have here and I don't wanna back down from this. I think it's a good wagon.

Thanks. Yeah, there were a few posts of his that I wondered about but wondered if I was reading too much into them.

[DrewVa]

I do better at building townblocks, so RR, Farside/Alonzo, Alchemist21, Mala, Cheeky, Amzela, Profii.

In addition to Varsoon, Fortian, hebi, Pint, Tails, FL role crumb makes me think he could be town.

maybe Gamma, Bujaber as well?

@Nancy, can you talk to me about Alchemist and Profii townreads?

Also what did you see from Bujaber that looked AI? -D

Alchemist21 seemed somewhat townie and solvey - pointing out things game related. Profii is obtown for many reasons - not the least of which I’ve been mindmelding with some of his reads, like Wisdom and less confident on BEF.

I didn’t really put my reads in order, just random of who I was currently townreading. Some are obviously stronger than others and Profii would be amongst those. I’m reconsidering Bujaber and not seeing why you townread BEF as strongly as you do.

[DrewVa]

This is the only majiffy comment that kinda bothered me in ISO, prolly not gonna vote here.

Although I don't think I'm great at reading Profii, I'm still leaning scum here

doesn't feel very genuine or like Bujab is trying to figure out the game at all.

Kinda with Varsoon here so far

Also I think Majiffy's push on Buj isn't that bad tbh -D

Disagree with first half - I think Profii is town but agree with the 2nd half. Scum generally isn’t enthusiastic to lead wagons. That’s another reason why why townread on BEF is slipping a bit. Not scumreading them rn but they seem a bit too eager to sheep votes - which may or may not be AI but it pings me a little.

[DrewVa]

I could swear this was the day

What day

Daylight?

[DrewVa]

Amzela, how good do you think you'd be at discerning Cerb as town or scum in forum based Mafia? Hopefully you don't talk about the game outside of the game, but do you get a sense that you can read him without actually seeing him? Is your only experience with Cerb in live versions of the game?

Also... you need an avatar.

My experience with Mafia and Cerb is him fanboying over A50 and Varsoon's games. It's the whole reason why I decided to try things out in the first place.

With regards to how they play, however, I don't know. I feel that the Drixx v Nancy thing was very genuine, so I don't think they're on the same side. This makes me more inclined to say RR is town just because I think they'd be more focused if they were scum. I need to ISO Nancy and make my conspiracy board for who's associating with who. I need to make my case.

You mean by same side, that we’re not linked, I presume?

[DrewVa]

Also wouldn’t be shocked if Goofball/Majiffy/Wisdom are a team.

LOL I've made like 3 pointless posts, wanna show your calculations to the class?

Calculations?

[DrewVa]

{Fortain, Profii, Chick, Gamma, Varsoon}
{Fish, DrippingGoofball, RR, DrewVa, Pint}
{Davesaz, Amzela, Toog (as 3p), Mala, Alonzo, Tails}
{Flavorleaf, Creature, Hebi, Wisdom, RCEnigma}
{Thor, Alchemist, Majiffy, BuJaber}

I like most of your reads. You and DVa have the Alchemist21 so low. Am I missing something with my read?

Anyway, strengthening my townreads on you and Mala.

Adding you both to my hardtown core of Varsoon, Fortian, RR, Profii. Oh why is DGB so high and Majiffy so low, since they are on the same wagon?

[DrewVa]

Chickadee hasn't shot anyone yet, that could be a scumtell...

[DrewVa]

We still in RVS?

How about you vote for a wagon and we'll see

d'awww

You know, the nice thing about never playing more than one game at a time is that I don't forget what's going on in regards to me or other things I've been keeping tabs on. I'll almost assuredly never vote in this game until I am absolutely sure no voting shenanigans are afoot, and since I'm pretty well useless to the point of nearly being a Tree Stump, I'll likely be around a while. Problem is, the game gets hard to get invested in when you can't vote, so I found myself glazing over the last 3 pages or so and not really giving a fuck.

I'm mostly just curious how many "serious" votes there are out there, and how many are just sheeps and creeps.

You asked an unnecessary question you should know the answer to. If you are town you can still contribute without voting. I was sympathetic to you getting the role, but you're going to have to pull your weight like the rest. Otherwise you look like 3rd party only interested in staying alive.

Sorry guys still busy atm will contribute later. BuJaber is there a reason you keep shading me without voting?

"Keep shading you" sounds worse than the reality. So it's you who's shading me... The first time I mentioned you it had nothing to do with your play. The guy who voted RR over you had seemingly more reasons in his post to suspect you than RR yet he voted RR, it was bad and needed addressing. The second time yeah it's worrying that you're not posting much this game given your usual tendency. However I'd rather keep my vote on RCE. I have more reasons to suspect him than you.

Is it just me but I did a comparison ISO of Bujaber in Overkill 1 and this game, and he seems quite different here. In Overkill 1, he was more laid back and reflective. In this game, he seems to be almost taking charge?

In Overkill 1, he seemed far more focused on finding clues and how to accurately read the gamestate. Here, in contrast, he seems to be way more focused on pushing people for things that seem pretty much NAI to me.

If this is relevant, I saw the same difference in posting in Marquis’ town and scum games - except that with Marquis, it was a lot more obvious.

Bujaber, why are you coming across more aggressive in this game?

Anyway, I think Toogeloo is town here, because he sounds sincere about his role.

[DrewVa]

I was just trolled

I could swear this was the day

Creature, if your town here, in a game with fake claims, you can’t just expect to coast on flavour crumbs.

[DrewVa]

Yes, everyone's my partner Buj....

Spoiler:

[DrewVa]

Bujaber, why are you coming across more aggressive in this game?

I wasn't received very well in overkill 1.

I don't think people should let playstyle affect their reads but they do anyway. If my usual playstyle comes across as unsure and scummy, I'll try to find a new style.

Well, I don’t think this one is being received a lot better. You may want to go back to your old one because everyone knows you were town in that game.

[DrewVa]

Looking through the past few pages. I have been keeping up reading but I really don't have much to add.

Majiffy has said they have no plans to put effort in the game. DGB at least has the motivation. So I feel like majiffy is still the right vote.

Creature also is pretty weak right now, yeah.

Don't feel like voting on amzela quite yet, since she seems petty new.

I guess I could vote on majiffy or creature and I don't feel strongly on anyone else.

Yeah, that’s a very good point. While a player can do something like that as either alignment, it is also easy for scum to hide behind that.

[DrewVa]

Spoiler: lol thank me for spoiling this

I am reporting that I have a negative utility to town.
I can ONLY hammer, and if I place a vote that isn't the hammer, I will be modkilled.

---
I will openly claim now as well. I am

THE

Sylvester Stallone. I am not one of his characters he's played, but the actual person as my role. As the actual person, I must have final say in the lynch," i.e. I can only hammer. Don't ask why the mod chose to make my role and flavor as it is, I don't know. Don't ask me to vote if it's not the hammer, it won't happen.

A50 has to be trolling you. Why do you get the crazy roles that sound like a complete LIE but that nobody would ever fake claim...

Except this time A50 said there will be fake claims.

I still believe you though.. also I think you have a high chance of killing yourself anyway. This is based on me not trusting myself to not die with a role like that, I project the same level of human error potential on you.

Ooo cheeky is town already. Verrrrrrrry interesting.

Based on what? And why would it be interesting?

I'm mad that Toog took my fake claim...

Anyways, I'm a Jinglebell Jester. If I'm lynched before 3p Lylo, everyone loses and Jingle wins. My wincon is to be lynched in 3p Lylo. Also, I'm Bulletproof, so no shooting me kiddos.

Anyone wanna end the game right now?

Yes actually I don't believe such a role would exist.

Why is the jester the towniest person.....besides Cheeky.

You're2right2!2I2should2claim2scum2.2

This made me laugh. Nice attitude to have regarding the last game.

Yey BuJaber is town

Good catch. I must have skimmed over that. And it makes total sense wrt to Toogeloo’s role here. I find it amusing that A50 would make Sly a negative utility role.

[DrewVa]

I get why some people are getting annoyed by Creature but that doesn’t make him scum. He is actively trying to solve the game here. I think Creature is town here.

[DrewVa]

@nancy - I'm not pro-massclaim.. I was talking to RR specifically about overkill 1 that's all. I agree with varsoon regarding this. I'd love to play in a mountainous also.

There was this awesome game, The Ditto, on MU awhile back. Creature was in it too. It had this really cool mechanic where scum had the option to kill a slot and replace into it. It was mountanous, flipless and obviously anonymous as well. Unfortunately, despite having an awesome setup, it tanked due to having the wrong playerlist.

12:3 mountainuous is very scumsided

Yeah, probably a redo with maybe 15:3 would have worked better. I’d love to see it run on here.

[DrewVa]

I get why some people are getting annoyed by Creature but that doesn’t make him scum. He is actively trying to solve the game here. I think Creature is town here.

If we don't remove him he's going to keep it up. If he keeps it up, a lot of us have to replace out. If a lot of us replace out, this game dies.

It's called a policy lynch and if people would stop being afraid of them we could start curbing shit behavior like spamming a thread with 50 one-liner posts.

We are not doing any fucking policy lynches on anyone who’s is probably town.

Creature isn’t acting like TPFKAP in Labrynth. She was actively trying to derail that game with bullshit posts. I thought you didn’t even care about this game?

[DrewVa]

I get why some people are getting annoyed by Creature but that doesn’t make him scum. He is actively trying to solve the game here. I think Creature is town here.

If we don't remove him he's going to keep it up. If he keeps it up, a lot of us have to replace out. If a lot of us replace out, this game dies.

It's called a policy lynch and if people would stop being afraid of them we could start curbing shit behavior like spamming a thread with 50 one-liner posts.

VOTE: Majiffy

I dislike you trying to push a “policy lynch” on what I think is a town slot.

[DrewVa]

I get why some people are getting annoyed by Creature but that doesn’t make him scum. He is actively trying to solve the game here. I think Creature is town here.

I'm getting annoyed because I actively work 12+ hour days 5/7 I only have a few days to catch up one being today and this is going to set me back. Yes, I get it he's catching up, but he's posting one liners which could honestly be avoided. He's actively trying to solve sure, but his way is so anti-town that I'm going to end up being scum read because I won't be actively able to stay updated and then I'll be lynched.

I hardtown read you, so I will fight any lynch attempt on you. @Creature, could you please try to keep those one liners in less posts, it is distracting.

I don’t think Creature is going to disregard our wishes. I think he just got a little too enthusiastic and didn’t really think about the effect it was having.

[DrewVa]

I get why some people are getting annoyed by Creature but that doesn’t make him scum. He is actively trying to solve the game here. I think Creature is town here.

If we don't remove him he's going to keep it up. If he keeps it up, a lot of us have to replace out. If a lot of us replace out, this game dies.

It's called a policy lynch and if people would stop being afraid of them we could start curbing shit behavior like spamming a thread with 50 one-liner posts.

We are not doing any fucking policy lynches on anyone who’s is probably town.

Creature isn’t acting like TPFKAP in Labrynth. She was actively trying to derail that game with bullshit posts. I thought you didn’t even care about this game?

If he isn't lynched or agrees to curb his posting I am stating intent to replace out.

I'm not reading 20 fucking pages a day.

I’m not disagreeing with this.

[DrewVa]

Creature can’t you do this in Notepad or a personalized PT and then post just the juicy bits in here?

Yeah, that’s a really great idea. @mod please give Creature a PT, so that he can consolidate his posts.

[DrewVa]

I get why some people are getting annoyed by Creature but that doesn’t make him scum. He is actively trying to solve the game here. I think Creature is town here.

I'm getting annoyed because I actively work 12+ hour days 5/7 I only have a few days to catch up one being today and this is going to set me back. Yes, I get it he's catching up, but he's posting one liners which could honestly be avoided. He's actively trying to solve sure, but his way is so anti-town that I'm going to end up being scum read because I won't be actively able to stay updated and then I'll be lynched.

I hardtown read you, so I will fight any lynch attempt on you. @Creature, could you please try to keep those one liners in less posts, it is distracting.

I don’t think Creature is going to disregard our wishes. I think he just got a little too enthusiastic and didn’t really think about the effect it was having.

Why are you hardcoretown reading me? (Just curious).

Based on certain posts of yours. I think that’s where I posted that. I have never played with scum!you but your posts seem really townie to me - both the reads and the reasoning behind them.

[DrewVa]

So Creature’s posting is absolutely awful but I don’t think his reads match what scum!him would do

Agreed, this seems like town!Creature here. Scum!Creature tends to be a lot more frozen and has trouble making reads. A really good telltale sign, is that he did all this when there was only just one vote on him. Scum!Creature would probably do jack until he found himself in actual danger of getting lynched.

[DrewVa]

I get why some people are getting annoyed by Creature but that doesn’t make him scum. He is actively trying to solve the game here. I think Creature is town here.

I'm getting annoyed because I actively work 12+ hour days 5/7 I only have a few days to catch up one being today and this is going to set me back. Yes, I get it he's catching up, but he's posting one liners which could honestly be avoided. He's actively trying to solve sure, but his way is so anti-town that I'm going to end up being scum read because I won't be actively able to stay updated and then I'll be lynched.

I hardtown read you, so I will fight any lynch attempt on you. @Creature, could you please try to keep those one liners in less posts, it is distracting.

I don’t think Creature is going to disregard our wishes. I think he just got a little too enthusiastic and didn’t really think about the effect it was having.

Why are you hardcoretown reading me? (Just curious).

Based on certain posts of yours. I think that’s where I posted that. I have never played with scum!you but your posts seem really townie to me - both the reads and the reasoning behind them.

well why im questioning it because it's the second time u mentioned a townread on me, but the first time you did it with a chickadee post. I know I was trying to catch up so was curious which post made you think i could be town or if it was the series of posts etc.

Also I might have a50 do a PT for me because I also catch up similarity to creature, but I tend to do a few pages of quotes and then spoil and post unless the post really irks me then i'll solo it out because its a way stronger post that I want myself to find easier when i do my reread

Yes I understand why you’d be wondering about that. I just wanted to try to reassure you that if you’re getting wagoned due to inactivity, I would object to it because I townread you. Does that make more sense?

[DrewVa]

Chickadee I haven't played with scum creature but I know having a couple posts and then going potato is possible from him as town. If you've played with him more is he more likely to disappear as scum?

I don't like this

Why I actually like it. It gives him a baseline and gives someone else who has played more than him in terms of experience trying to sort your slot than trying to wing it himself and be wrong.

Like I said, if Creature comes back and starts posting, I'll take back my vote. But for now, I feel fine with it here.

Wow

Vote someone to make them start posting

Tell me more of your secrets

To be fair Creature I was thinking about voting you too. You did seem to be emulating your scum-meta.

Agree with RCE/Cheeky here. I don’t see why you’d have a problem with this, Creature.
Beelejuicing a slot is a valid way to find scum, as scum may be lurking and not wanting to post, until they actually have a few votes on them.

[DrewVa]

I get why some people are getting annoyed by Creature but that doesn’t make him scum. He is actively trying to solve the game here. I think Creature is town here.

Where?

He's mostly saying "Most of the game so far is town"

Man these hard stances.

I’m mindmelding with Gamma here. Creature’s posting is bad but the content isn’t inline with what I’ve usually seen from scum!Creature - especially when he only had 1 vote on him at the time.

[DrewVa]

You guys really do enjoy meta reads.

because playstyles are unique and plenty of scumtells can be actually towntells for specific players and viceversa.

+1

100% Agree with this. I don’t ever recall anyone accusing me of “overreacting” over scumreads/votes. in Overkill 1.


Creature, please try to consolidate more of your thoughts in less posts. Thanks.

[DrewVa]

VOTE: Flavor Leaf

Serious vote.

I know I'm only ending on page 11, but he's bothering me with the endless joking, endless kiss-assing of Heib.
Yes, it's gut, but I really don't like it.

On other news, I

don't

really have a good feeling so far on the following players {Wis, DBG & Thor}. With them I can't yet fully put it into words.

Fair vote

Why do you feel good about Thor though?

You’re misreading this. She said she DIDN’T feel good about Thor.

[DrewVa]

She was actively trying to derail that game with bullshit posts.

Who are you talking about here?

TPFKAP aka Porkens. She was constantly spreading fake alarmist WIFOM, deliberatly attempting to derail any possible attempts at town solving.

[DrewVa]

Creature did you roll SK? If so are you 'vigging' FL tonight?

-D

[DrewVa]

Not sure I'm convinced Thor is scum but I think I like how Cheeky is approaching the case so I'll call her a townread. --D

[DrewVa]

Creature is obvtowning it up

so when can we lynch Wisdom? -D

[DrewVa]

I agree it's town creature here. Do you scumread Creature because of the wisdom goggles?

If this is at me, I'm not saying Creature is scum. I'm saying Wisdom giving Creature an easy townread based on superficial meta reasons is scum indicative for Wisdom - D

[DrewVa]

where the fuck did i mention meta
Stop being so bad

ok why is he "obvtowning it up" then?

[DrewVa]

because read his posts

Frankly I don't really buy you saying he's "obvtowning it up" tbh, that does not sound like something town!you would say -D

[DrewVa]

This is the third time Wisdom has hard pinged me today and he pinged me 0 times in BoR d1 despite his shitty pushes on town. If he flips town here, I will do something extreme, like be moderately disappointed in my ability to read him -D

[DrewVa]

youve only seen town me saying such things one billion times

You do realize the -D indicates I'm signing my post as DVa right? I feel like you think you're talking to Nancy rn

[DrewVa]

Creature did you roll SK? If so are you 'vigging' FL tonight?

-D

I am as old as Almost50 was when I was half the age I will be en 25 years from now.

So you're 25 years old

I agree 100% with RR, the way Creature posted was not annoying at all compared to the discussions that sometimes happen in this forum. Summed up, the one liners were nothing. And I'm glad to announce that Creature is town. Thanks Mathdino!

Chick, when you’re able, what is your read on Toog and why?

I'm town reading Toog. I think the way they initially claimed was genuine. I think it came from a place of wanting to be upfront about they wouldn't be voting. There hasn't been a lot of redeeming posts since then, but I understand the frustration.

I also don't hold it against anyone to find their "oh it exists" post scummy though.

What is it about the post that you think makes that post more likely to come from scum?

Right now i'm very worried that your initial post about it was a vague attempt at sounding useful without actually coming from a genuine place. Especially given that I think your explanations since don't really make sense of why you'd jump in to defend Mala like that.

--

Also I seriously don't get all the hysteria surrounding Creature's posting. That was all more anti-town than Creature's posting was imo.

-DV

That’s why I voted Majiffy for wanting to policy lynch him. Arguing for a policy lynch on a likely townslot, who is actively trying to advance the gamestate, is always anti-town.

~Nancy

[DrewVa]

Chick, when you’re able, what is your read on Toog and why?

I'm town reading Toog. I think the way they initially claimed was genuine. I think it came from a place of wanting to be upfront about they wouldn't be voting. There hasn't been a lot of redeeming posts since then, but I understand the frustration.

I also don't hold it against anyone to find their "oh it exists" post scummy though.

What is it about the post that you think makes that post more likely to come from scum?

Right now i'm very worried that your initial post about it was a vague attempt at sounding useful without actually coming from a genuine place. Especially given that I think your explanations since don't really make sense of why you'd jump in to defend Mala like that.

--

Also I seriously don't get all the hysteria surrounding Creature's posting. That was all more anti-town than Creature's posting was imo.

-DV

All I meant was that I don't scum read Mala for the conclusion she made.

This is very different from your original post. I didn’t mention anything about scumreading Mala for the conclusion she made. Nor do I believe you would make the post you did as town if your only thought was “I don’t scumread Mala for the conclusion she made.”

Essentially, I don’t think you’re town.

Yes, I haven’t seen anyone scumread Mala here. Why would they? She complained about Creature’s one line posting and gave reasons for it but never scumread him for it. Chick’s unnecessary defense of Mala here, seems kind of out of place.

[DrewVa]

Guys I'm pretty sure Thor is scum. If there is a vig I'd shoot that if we don't lynch him today.

Can you elaborate why Thor is the best lynch here? I have never played with town!Thor, so I only know his scum!meta.

[DrewVa]

Might be worthwhile to do an in-wagon analysis of where the wagon came from. I'll do Majiffy wagon first, in large part because I don't actually remember why anyone is scumreading him. That super-nice VC format allows us to easily multi-quote all of the votes.

and profii is town

VOTE: majiffy

No reason given in the vote post. Will need to ISO to find it, if there is one.

Haven't finished reading but so far varsoon and majiffy really don't seem like they're reading very well.

Varsoon keeps mistaking posts adressed to othrs as adressed to him, like when I called majiffy a sheep.

And majiffy because nobody who read my interactions with RCE coild possibly think my vote was a simple wagon hop. Doesn't seem like he's actually reading just wanted an easy target and picked on the latest vote on RCE at the time. I think he's scum, possibly protecting his partner. VOTE: majiffy

RR has talked a lot more than I remember so I'm sorry about the activity comment.. your case on hebichan is interesting. I'll look into it further when it's time for hebi's ISO read but it's important to note that chick kinda defended her and there might be a connection there.

Gives a fairly reasonable-sounding reason. I haven't vetted the case itself.

I call BS. There’s a multitude of reasons why a post-game explanation is bad
VOTE: Majiffy
If you’re making that type of statement you’d probably have already done analysis to support it. Since you haven’t that means it’s a crock of shit.

I can see thinking that "maybe I'll tell you after the game" as an answer to a question about a supposed tell can be interpreted as scummy. And I'd kinda expect GE to have that kind of read as town. I think it's fairly shallow since there are quite valid reasons not to blab your private tells on another player as any alignment, but I don't think shading it is scummy. So this vote is for a valid reason, whether the reason is correct or not.

Ew. The one time I can recall someone being like "I got this scumread but I'll explain it later" was GiF in a game where I pegged him as scum for it, he replaced out, then I was promptly killed and his team went on to win.
So excuse me if I'm going to be a bit critical of this kinda shit:
VOTE: Majiffy

Can't tell if Varsoon is sheeping GE's post or if they both came up with the same reason simultaneously. Would need to look at post timestamps.

I get why some people are getting annoyed by Creature but that doesn’t make him scum. He is actively trying to solve the game here. I think Creature is town here.

If we don't remove him he's going to keep it up. If he keeps it up, a lot of us have to replace out. If a lot of us replace out, this game dies.

It's called a policy lynch and if people would stop being afraid of them we could start curbing shit behavior like spamming a thread with 50 one-liner posts.

VOTE: Majiffy

I dislike you trying to push a “policy lynch” on what I think is a town slot.

Eh, I don't know if pushing policy would be worth the risk as scum, but I get the vibe of the vote. Probably legit.

Pedit: Got a reason?

Policy lynches are the perfect reason for scum to push a mislynch. I did it in Heroes but in that case, it was something I would have also done as town, since mylo mislynch was good for both town/scum in that game. In this case, it’s particularly scummy because it’s actually a bad reason. Policy lynches are great way for scum to mislynch and not look bad for it.

[DrewVa]

His lack of sorting/reaction to initial votes/opportunistic jump on creature.

I suggest you read his ISO as VCA isn't going to tell us much preflip.

Sorry, I posted before I was caught up. I will check that out. What do you think about Chick’s weird Mala defense?

[DrewVa]

:/ I'm losing my TR on chick.

BABY COME BACK

No but for real, why?

I don't believe your tunnel on creature anymore like as town I think you'd reassess or take a step back when he's more active instead of calling for more pressure on his wagon especially with the opportunistic votes from The Jif and Hebi.

How is jumping from one of the two people I said I would vote to the other "opprotunistic"?

You were the one who’s reasoning made the most sense to me but it’s still a bad vote. Can’t you see how different he is here, than in Heroes?

[DrewVa]

VOTE: Bujaber
Back on the track, this the anime master.
Hoes on my flick, Cowboy Bebop when I'm blastin' em

Can you explain this in English? Thanks.

[DrewVa]

Not sure I'm convinced Thor is scum but I think I like how Cheeky is approaching the case so I'll call her a townread. --D

So Creature’s posting is absolutely awful but I don’t think his reads match what scum!him would do

no it isn't wtf guys
Creature is obvtowning it up

Okay, maybe Wisdom could be town and just inexplicably initially incapable of reading me.

If he had scumread Creature as well, I’d advocate powerlynching him.

[DrewVa]

Cerb youre still misunderstanding
You said "Make quote walls and people should read them because text game"
Im saying "Then let him post like he is doing now, people should read them because text game"
More clear now?

Just to make this clear for those who may have difficulty with reading the intent of my posts:

I think Creature's way of catching up is perfectly fine

,while also feeling that there are ways to accomplish the same goal without making lots of posts. *shrug*

-Cerb

Wisdom is finding fault with your posts wrt Creature posting, where none exists.

~Nancy

[DrewVa]

it's worked before

VOTE: hebichan

Feeling this is town

Ooo cheeky is town already. Verrrrrrrry interesting.

Okay, can see RCE being town now

(even though I disagree)

And you don't think there's scum in that group? I'd be on Flavor myself if I wasn't buddying up to Wisdom.

You're also voting RCE. So...

Tails town

Because hebi got off after earlier saying likely scum in me/RCE/FL

Caause no one was replying at the time. Not gonna reply to a sleeping game. I'm still around.

Oh you meant got off the RCE wagon. Same deal. I just want other people to reply. I'll get back on you three once I feel like its actually time to push who I think is scum.

hebichan should also be town

Page 6

BEF town and hopefully I'm not wrong like last game

Spoiler: lol thank me for spoiling this

I am reporting that I have a negative utility to town.
I can ONLY hammer, and if I place a vote that isn't the hammer, I will be modkilled.

---
I will openly claim now as well. I am

THE

Sylvester Stallone. I am not one of his characters he's played, but the actual person as my role. As the actual person, I must have final say in the lynch," i.e. I can only hammer. Don't ask why the mod chose to make my role and flavor as it is, I don't know. Don't ask me to vote if it's not the hammer, it won't happen.

A50 has to be trolling you. Why do you get the crazy roles that sound like a complete LIE but that nobody would ever fake claim...

Except this time A50 said there will be fake claims.

I still believe you though.. also I think you have a high chance of killing yourself anyway. This is based on me not trusting myself to not die with a role like that, I project the same level of human error potential on you.

Ooo cheeky is town already. Verrrrrrrry interesting.

Based on what? And why would it be interesting?

I'm mad that Toog took my fake claim...

Anyways, I'm a Jinglebell Jester. If I'm lynched before 3p Lylo, everyone loses and Jingle wins. My wincon is to be lynched in 3p Lylo. Also, I'm Bulletproof, so no shooting me kiddos.

Anyone wanna end the game right now?

Yes actually I don't believe such a role would exist.

Why is the jester the towniest person.....besides Cheeky.

You're2right2!2I2should2claim2scum2.2

This made me laugh. Nice attitude to have regarding the last game.

Yey BuJaber is town

VOTE: Wisdom

Feels town

Alch town page 15

Page 21

So many obvtown

Is it a good or a bad sign?

No, I'm not shallow. This is shallow.

Pedit: I disagree that the posts in the burst are meaningful (and whatever you're seeing could be fake), and assert that if he stops posting after this that will be a scumtell.

Scum!Creature generally lurks when he is being scumread, so not necessarily AI in this case. Plus, upbeat Creature more often than not=town!Creature and I haven’t seen anything so far to indicate otherwise. Few players are more unhappy rolling scum than Creature, so I’m currently taking his seemingly happy temperment as a positive sign.

~N

[DrewVa]

Hmm. Weird.

People who have played with Wisdom RECENTLY: is this conciliatory attitude in his current scum range? Last time I played with scum !Wisdom it almost certainly wasn't. I would expect both dave and I to be treated with the same attitude, yet he's being nicer to me, in spite of me using more inflammatory language.

-Cerb

No, he usually isn’t this nice or backtracks. Town!Wisdom would be far more likely to either just grudgingly agree with you or drop it entirely.

[DrewVa]

He's actively trying to solve sure, but his way is so anti-town that I'm going to end up being scum read because I won't be actively able to stay updated and then I'll be lynched.

I dont get it
The way creature is catching up makes it way easier to follow his thoughts than if he posted all of that in a huge wall

So Creature’s posting is absolutely awful but I don’t think his reads match what scum!him would do

no it isn't wtf guys
Creature is obvtowning it up

I'm meh about this defense

Possible buddying?

Ironic, considering that was his reasoning for voting Majiffy.

[DrewVa]

I dislike how Wisdom is cherry picking at RR’s and Gamma’s posts, implying that they’re disagreeing with him, when they weren’t.

[DrewVa]

Tone seems townie but then there's the misquoting posts he claims he hasn't read fully which is very odd.

what
it sounds like you didnt understand anything about whats happened

You’re sounding like scum!Creature with this post.

Both RR and Gamma are currently townreading Creature for his posting and you’re try to make it seem like they aren’t. Now Bujaber isn’t “understanding” exactly what you’re doing here? C’mon.

[DrewVa]

I also feel like Wisdom’s town. Back during the Wisdom vs Nancy, I legit agreed with the cases they were making, and Wisdomms been at the forefront since then. He’s not trying to hide, and with being in a 1v1 like that it set him up to be a potential shot, and I don’t think scum does that in this kind of game. I feel we’d get more of a sense of Wisdom having political reads if he were scum, if that makes sense.

It’s just weird to me, that he is making such a big deal about RR and Gamma’s posts. When is he ever this fussy?

Why isn’t he more focused on the people who were scumreading Creature for his posting? Like I don’t even know why he cares.

[DrewVa]

And reading his ISO I'm not so sure RCE is scum anymore but will revisit if majiffy flips scum.

So of the people I wanted to focus on in post 626..

RR, profii - probably town
RCE, Mala, Varsoon - scumlean
Majiffy, hebichan, chickadee - scum

Forgot fortian - scumlean.. short posts I didn't like.. didn't read the walls, hated the entrance as I've stated previously.

Ooooo! I’m excited now.

Our “walls” aren’t very long and not very many. If you think we might be scum, wouldn’t it make sense to read them to see if any further scumminess lies within?

Wrt your entrance, I was in a game awhile ago on MU, where a player got scumread for making a comparible entrance. They flipped town.

[DrewVa]

Chick wagon is equally bad.

Explain the vote cheeky

She's just scum, man.

How much of this game have you read so far?

[DrewVa]

How much of this game have you read so far?

not a whole lot.

Nero, Id be keen to talk with you about Chick and why you think the wagon is bad.

-DV

If I understand she's being wagoned for being an opinionless void and making excuses for not being here and that just seems like pretty much par for the course with Chick. I mean, Its entirely possible that she does that as scum too and I'm not saying that Chick is a super strong town read that should never be lynched but I'm going to need more than "she's a worthless lurksack"

No, she’s getting mostly voted for her bad push on Creature.

[DrewVa]

but of couse you couldn't respect my wishes not to play with you and did it anyway

Nero has every right to play in whatever games he wants. Get over yourself.

[DrewVa]

I'd omgus the shizz out of you if Majiffy's replace out hadn't happened. So why vote before you've even read the game? Why am I scum?

Never said I hadn't read, I said I hadn't read much. I felt like some of your posts where this kinda go with the flow type posts.

I wouldn't mind a Thor wagon either if some momentum started happening there. I can't really explain my read as it's mainly just a gut feeling that he's playing strangely and doing the bare minimum.

The chick wagon is understandable.

They're tag teaming wisdom for misquoting. But yeah I see it

:/ I'm losing my TR on chick.

I really don’t see why this is scum?

But anyway, I think this might be town!Nero here.

UNVOTE:

[DrewVa]

Why does a wisdom/nero scum team suddenly feel so right?

Because you autointerpret whatever you cant understand as scum theatre

I'm just WIFOMing a little over here. There is nothing wrong with that.

You think players arguing, automatically =scum theater?

Read the LLD/Short and LLD/Fire interactions in Halloween Dance, if you want a really good example of what scum theater looks like.

A less blatant example would be Sakura/Marquis in Boundaries of Reality.

[DrewVa]

It’s not really anything to do with that. The way your interacting with Nero and Wisdom feels incongruous with your theory on them.

Although his play rn reads rather sketchy

I get that alot. The thing is, before I submit post I look and see... this post could come across as scummy.

But I hit submit anyways.

Knowing what could come.

Maybe I'm just to lazy to edit but most times when I Pedit I just erase everything and start from scratch and it ends up just a scummy sometimes.

no one really cares how you come off but you should be hunting for scum and you aren't doing that :/

I’m not currently scumreading him but his continuing self-consciousness bothers me. But then admitting to it could be seen as townie. \_0_/

[DrewVa]

Why do you think I'm scum?

I don't know

There you have it.

That answer hasn't changed.

What answer? “I don’t know”, isn’t a good answer for voting anyone.

[DrewVa]

What I find interesting about Jaber is how he switched his vote from majiffy/Nero to me. So either he know has a sudden TR on Nero or he could be protecting him...

I feel way more confident with a vote on Jaber instead of my vote on Nero.

VOTE: BuJaber

Huh? How is switching his vote from Nero to you, read as protecting him?

Like, almost none of your reasons for voting/unvoting anyone are really making any sense.

Do you have both a town and scum game, you could link me too?

[DrewVa]

Why you pushing me?

I haven't done anything to you

. Did you explain why you are voting chick or are you just sheeping along? If I hear a good reason to vote chick then I will.

What?

[DrewVa]

Tldr

Wisdom clashes with more slots (Dave, RR, Nero/Majiffy)
Majiffy replaces out (won't comment in this, it's in his iso) Nero Cain takes his spot
Majiffy wagon dies, replaced by Chickadee wagon and Bujaber counterwagon.

Did anyone think Nero obvTowned? If not then I’d say the Jiffy wagon that existed was a result if personality clash.

Based on meta, I think this is town!Nero.

[DrewVa]

Why you pushing me? I haven't done anything to you. Did you explain why you are voting chick or are you just sheeping along? If I hear a good reason to vote chick then I will.

Dave put it pretty well. To boil it down there isn't an effort to scum or townhunt from Chickadee. Even the parameters she used to scumread Creature ONLY applied to creature and none of the other slots that fit in the same category.

A chick vote makes sense but I do really love my vote on Jaber.

So I'll be reasonable for once.

VOTE: Chickadee

But RCE, I would still like to get your current read on Jaber.

So why switch? Unless, we’re close to EOD/or a no lynch, why not vote your strongest scumread? I’m not saying you should vote Jaber, only questioning your jump to Chick based on this.

[DrewVa]

I voted nero over wisdom because nero asked me to lynch wisdom and he isnt even voting wisdom

That seems reasonable

One of the answers, I actually liked.

Anyway, Gamma is obvtown here.

[DrewVa]

I've read through Chick's iso a few times now to see if I'm missing anything. (THE PEER PRESURE!) and I don't really feel like she's all that scummy. Also not a huge fan of Pints case.

Its a little dated but @ one point in time active Creature=town Creature and Creature WAS being a useless lursack. So it makes plenty of sense to me that Chick would push on something that she thinks she has right.

I feel like this "inconsistency" he's pushing is him saying Creature should be treated like this and she's not treating him like I would.

As for her not instantly unvoting Creature when he started spam posting, I sort of feel like scum her would try to avoid such an obvious inconsistency that she'd undoubtedly get called on.

I know I don’t want to maj before we figure this out. We have like 6 days left. Why the rush from some players?

[DrewVa]

VOTE: Gamma

Why?

[DrewVa]

Can someone explain to me why we're not voting the Drew hydra anymore? Because I just finished with the RR nonsense, and I really want that slot dead.

Because I’m town, duh. You really need to read the entire game. This is presisely the sort of thinking that allows mislynches to happen. Please do better.

[DrewVa]

What I find interesting about Jaber is how he switched his vote from majiffy/Nero to me. So either he know has a sudden TR on Nero or he could be protecting him...

I feel way more confident with a vote on Jaber instead of my vote on Nero.

VOTE: BuJaber

Huh? How is switching his vote from Nero to you, read as protecting him?

Like, almost none of your reasons for voting/unvoting anyone are really making any sense.

Do you have both a town and scum game, you could link me too?

Well, maybe switching directions to get a new wagon to pull attention away from Nero. I was really just tinfoil thinking out loud... still could be possible though.

My wiki is pretty much up to date except for some ongoing games, so look there if you want to meta me.

If you could link 1 town and 1 scum game, it would make things a lot easier though.

[DrewVa]

So why switch? Unless, we’re close to EOD/or a no lynch, why not vote your strongest scumread? I’m not saying you should vote Jaber, only questioning your jump to Chick based on this.

Even though I had a stronger SR on Jaber I also feel that a Chick wagon was warranted, I'm interested to see what Clem brings. We had 3 wagons at the time and I was on all of them. Honestly, I'd be fine lynching any of those wagons.

Clem/Chick, Bujaber and Nero/Majiffy or DGB? I can tell you, that I’m pretty sure we’re seeing town!Nero here, so I was obviously wrong about Majiffy. Interestingly enough, Creature called it. He didn’t think Majiffy was the optimal lynch - even before Nero replaced that slot.

[DrewVa]

how is he obvtown

He is questioning things, trying to sort, and not at all in a hedgey way. I’ve been townreading that slot ever since Gamma commented on DVa and the whole RVS thing. He sounds like he’s eager to figure things out. That sort of thinking is a lot more likely to come from town than scum. You disagree?

[DrewVa]

i know i'm talking about my own slot here but i'd read chick's adamancy as confirmation bias rather than trying to mis-lynch just from how sure it sounds

what is even the purpose of this
You supposedly know your slot is town so why are you guessing about how you would read it

because since i know my role is town, and i know there's a wagon on it, i wanna prevent a mis-lynch
also i like being the center of attention because of my massive ego
imma go back to reading now

You’re referring to your slot like you were sorting another player. Why do you say, you want to prevent “

a

mislynch” as opposed to wanting to prevent YOUR mislynch? Weird.

[DrewVa]

You really need to read the entire game.

Have I not?

I don’t think so, otherwise you wouldn’t have said, you wanted my slot to die.

[DrewVa]

I also want to point out how Creature has NEVER voted me, at least, as far as I can tell, when he was town except the first game we ever played in together. I don’t think Creature votes me too often despite how much we have played together, but I think this is a potential scum screature tell. I’m going to look more into it.

Creature couldn’t just be wrong? I don’t see how that makes him scum and of course, we don’t know what your alignment is.

Creature is much more frozen as scum, as well as downbeat.

[DrewVa]

Tails, for some reason, I like you. I can’t explain why, but maybe gut just says your town to me. I have a hardcore paranoia you gonna sweep the game.

If Tails gets NKed this post will be interesting...

Yeah, I don’t know what to make of that post. Like how is he “gonna sweep the game”, if he’s town? And why the “paranoia”, if that’s the case?

[DrewVa]

You really need to read the entire game.

Have I not?

I don’t think so, otherwise you wouldn’t have said, you wanted my slot to die.

I've wanted your slot to die for awhile.

No, you’re not getting it. SINCE that fight with Drixx - Do you have any opinions on my posting since? Because it seems, that you are the only one in the entire game, who doesn’t.

[DrewVa]

@Cerb: What do you make of Nancy pretending my scum read on her is new and meritless?

I am not “pretending” anything, and you twisting my words is kind of pissing me off.

[DrewVa]

@Cerb: What do you make of Nancy pretending my scum read on her is new and meritless?

I am not “pretending” anything, and you twisting my words is kind of pissing me off.

I am very CLEARLY saying that you aren’t looking at EVERYTHING. But continue to misinterpret this as well.

[DrewVa]

Just ate so so so much food. Turkey day is great, ya'll.

Anyway
RR doesn't make this play as scum, imo.
Also, Mafia is a game of rhetoric. You should expect that literally anything you post in the game thread is subject to speculation and doubt--if it bothers you that your earnest emotions can be interpreted as rhetorical posturing, maybe avoid games where that's literally a strategy.
I'm pretty much taking you both at face value regardless, for what it's worth;
Like I believe DrewVa is actually frustrated/feeling these ways
and I believe RR legitimately is finding issue with how DrewVa is playing
But like I said
I don't think either of their play is specifically attempting to manipulate others.

I wasn’t upset at having my emotional reactions questioned - it was the unnecessarily pejorative associations with the words he was using. It was - no pun intended - but overkill and with all due resect Varsoon, I have 0 intent of stopping playing games because others - including you - don’t think I have just cause to defend myself here. I have a total right to do that. I agree with you that Drixx wasn’t being scummy but VEHEMENTLY disagree with you that he was not out of line. He 100% was and I don’t see how insisting on having the respect that I or any other player is entitled to - including Drixx/RR - should prevent me from participating in any games. Basic civility is not incompatible with playing Mafia and I am disappointed with you for not seeing the rightness of my side in this.

I think it’s inherently possible that both RR heads have completely misunderstood the rightful basis of my objections to that - due to them - mostly Drixx, unfairly accusing me of attempting to “bully” anyone into not trying to sort me correctly.

I am advocating for being treated with basic respect here - nothing more, nothing less and I won’t ever back down from this stance. On my part, I shouldn’t have called Drixx names but I wasn’t getting through to him otherwise. I’m legit sad and disgusted with the entire thing. All Drixx needed to do, was to apologize for his insensitive, poor choice of wording, while continuing to maintain his reasonable position of my not being defacto townread for my emotional reactions. Had he just done this, none of this hideous garbage would even had occured.

This felt manipulative to me. Compared with the rest of your posting, the verbage really stands out. I see less of the emotions from the previous posts and more cold calculation. And that makes this whole thing read manufactured for the purpose of giving yourself the high ground. Any push from RR dies at this point, and you accomplished here what I failed to in Overkill 1 when I attempted to make RR's push on my slot look personal based on their statements about my predecessor.

Do I believe you were legit upset? Yes. Does that mean that your argument and push back didn't have an ulterior motive? No.

Yes, you got me. I never ever fake my emotions - as any alignment - so I get upset whenever I get accused of doing that. But you know, I don’t really have the energy or interest of going through this again. I am town here and you have the right to believe otherwise. I officially give up. I don’t wish to once again become the focus of this game, for all the wrong reasons, so I’m dropping it. *sigh*

[DrewVa]

@Cerb: What do you make of Nancy pretending my scum read on her is new and meritless?

I am not “pretending” anything, and you twisting my words is kind of pissing me off.

I am very CLEARLY saying that you aren’t looking at EVERYTHING. But continue to misinterpret this as well.

You implied that I hadn't read the thread AT ALL. You essentially threw me in with the newer posters like Creature and Clemency when you've known I've been scum reading you for awhile. So yes, saying that I haven't read the thread implies that my read is baseless, and therefore, you are pretending that this read is completely without merit and not one I've stated multiple times.

No, that isn’t even remotely what I’ve been saying - or at least it isn’t the what I’ve been INTENDING to suggest. Once again, by the WHOLE thread, I mean the ENTIRETY of the game - including my posts SINCE then. But it’s clear that I’m beating a dead horse anyway and you have no interest in reconsidering your read on me, so fine. I don’t even know why I care if you’re reading me correctly. Does that imply your read on my slot is “meritless”? Well, you tell me. I obviously can’t say it is, because I’m not scum in this game. Do I think it’s unreasonable to view some of my earlier posts as appearing scummy? By people who don’t really know how to read me by meta? No, I can understand why. I just think that anyone who is really familiar with my meta, would know I was town at this point. Having 0 experience playing with town!me, I shouldn’t assume you ought to be able to see that. So my frustration isn’t your problem.

[DrewVa]

BuJaber seems too calm about the growing wagon on him. I like RCE's recent posting. I'm feeling let down by RR though I could be misremembering when/why they started getting more active in the last game.

Is his reaction here very different than in Overkill 1? One thing I have noticed, is very blatant difference in tone from that game. Some his reads are really questionable - especially you and Fortian. I don’t remember him having such offreads in that game.

[DrewVa]

@Nancy: I've been reading from the beginning. I've even interacted with you since then.

And I haven't seen anything to change my mind

. I'm still not sure how you can go "Have you read the whole thread?" when I've been here this entire time, and you know I have.

The bolded. Like I’ve been saying, it’s seems as if you are the only one who is of that opinion.

[DrewVa]

Anyway, bigger fish. What are you doing with your vote?

I am trying to decide who is the best vote. Chick hasn’t really done much and her Creature push was bad. Clem hasn’t done anything to improve my read on that slot.

Something about Bujaber’s tone here is way off compared with Overkill 1 and his reads - especially Cheeky and Fortian, really make no sense to me.

I think I need to check out one of his scumgames, to see if I’m imagining things wrt to his tone being off. I really can’t tell if Clem/Chick slot is scum or lazy town atm.

If we lynch Bujaber and he doesn’t flip red, we need to take another look at DGB.

[DrewVa]

Nancy are you still here?

Yes, why?

Oh found a link to Bujaber’s most recent scumgame and it unfortunately, isn’t at all helpful. :/

viewtopic.php?f=51&t=77435&user_select%5B%5D=30705

[DrewVa]

Is Alonzo scum that's blatantly not doing anything or one of those new age players that are all like "I'm going to be scummy and useless for reasons"

it wasn't directed at you but no one will respond to it. I figure if I ask you maybe you will.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=77824&user_select%5B%5D=32117

Well, his predecessor Farside seemed kind of townie but maybe not?

[DrewVa]

BuJaber seems too calm about the growing wagon on him. I like RCE's recent posting. I'm feeling let down by RR though I could be misremembering when/why they started getting more active in the last game.

Is his reaction here very different than in Overkill 1? One thing I have noticed, is very blatant difference in tone from that game. Some his reads are really questionable - especially you and Fortian. I don’t remember him having such offreads in that game.

What makes you so sure I'm wrong?

You keep referring to overkill 1.. don't you notice any difference in Cheeky's play here compared to there?

The votes on me come from either suspected slots or people that don't know me. I don't know why people are taking it seriously. And @Varsoon you haven't answered how I can be a counterwagon to a wagon that came after mine.

No, how is Cheeky different here, then in that game exactly? She seems very similar to me.

Fortian seems obvtown to me. I’m really not reading anything that seems scummy to me.

[DrewVa]

VOTE: Malakitty
Creature
DrewVa
Alonzo
Alchemist21
RCEnigma
BuJaber
Clemency
Wisdom
CheekyTeeky
pinturicchio
Fortian
Amzela

If Nero ever townreads me in a game, I going to be convinced he rolled scum. No matter how many times, you keep misreading me, you never read me accurately.

[DrewVa]

Clemency’s posting has only kind of supported my scumread on Chickadee imo.

In the meantime, RR you worry me.

-DV

Clarification. I think clem’s posting is scummy. Realised that was unclear

Which posts are you talking about?

1846 is the most concerning post from me.

He states that he understands the wagon because of how inactive the slot was, which just seems incredibly fake to me. It comes across as trying to sound conciliatory and reasonable, but since when did inactivity alone justify someone being the leading wagon? Why would Clem, as town who knows Chickadee was town, support the idea of town wagoning her on inactivity alone?

The fact that it's followed later by 1869 makes it kind of worse imo? It fits my interpretation of Clem's posts being designed to look "transparent" and "carefree" without actually coming from genuine thought processes.

It also bugs me that Clemency came in to decry their wagon and then kinda ghosted but I guess it hasn't been that long?
Or are they posting a bunch and I just didn't realize?

I don't think it's been that long at all, the game is just moving fast generally speaking I think? They're not posting all that much though...like more than Chickadee, but nothing super notable. Their content has been basically empty though. Pretty bad scum defense attempt if they are scum, and my standard BoP for strangers makes me feel that's more likely to come from town just not feeling like dealing with the shit their predecessor left for them.

-Cerb

Honestly I think what you're using as a defence for Clemency is likely not too significant, and if anything is more reason to think them scum. If Clem's town, they don't need to care that much about the wagon on them. Town's objective is to find scum. Not post a flurry of posts that don't really mean anything and then disappear once it seems like that's not lessening the suspicion on them. Scum's agenda in this case is, first and foremost, to not get lynched. True, good scum will push through and continue "scumhunting" and trying to look town, but good town will also continue to be engaged with the game. Obviously the apathy could come from both alignments, but imo if anything scum are more likely to get disheartened from getting nowhere with their efforts to look town.

- DV

Not commenting on Clem/Chick slot here. I can say that being wagoned totally does affect my game and makes me not care if the wagon is peristant or continues long enough. I was in a game awhile ago offsite, where I did everything possible to convince everyone I was town and it either made no difference or it made everything worse. I actually lost complete confidence in being able to convince town to accurately read me, that I became totally discouraged and gave up. So, I freely admit that what you’re saying wouldn’t apply to me at all. I even got so mad, I temp self-voted in protest.

[DrewVa]

VOTE: Malakitty
Creature
DrewVa
Alonzo
Alchemist21
RCEnigma
BuJaber
Clemency
Wisdom
CheekyTeeky
pinturicchio
Fortian
Amzela

Take me, BuJaber, Fortian and maaaaaybe RCE out of this list and we have somewhat the same reads

Amzela, Cheeky, me and Creature shouldn’t be there but then it’s a Nero list, so I would expect to be a permanent fixture on his scumlist in every damn game.

[DrewVa]

Nero made that multi vote post after making a comment that too many people were either naked voting or ok with it. Suspecting it isn’t a read list...

Since you can only vote one player at a time, how is it not a readslist?

[DrewVa]

Nero made that multi vote post after making a comment that too many people were either naked voting or ok with it. Suspecting it isn’t a read list...

Probably isn’t since he has 13/26 slots listed.

Unrelated, who is Toogaloo and why haven’t they ever placed a vote?

He has a negative utility role, so he can only hammer or something, I think?

[DrewVa]

Siri, add Tails to my lynch list.

Welcome to the sane people. We will take your coat.

You’re scumreading Tails too? His not changing his read on me is concerning as is his pushing Cheeky but does that necessarily make him scum here or am I missing something?

I guess to be fair, he isn’t the easiest slot to sort by meta. He pushed Cheeky, RR and Bujaber in last game, with not all that different sounding arguments.

[DrewVa]

Someone within RCE/Gamma/Wisdom tell me where to vote. I'm pretty tired of being on useless wagons.

I’m waiting for Clem to actually do something to clarify Chick slot but nothing he has posted so far, has influenced my read on way or the other, which is kind if frustrating.

And the trouble with this setups, is that you can’t necessarily relay on associatives like you do in a more traditional game.

I found a Bujaber scumgame but he wasn’t like he is either in Overkil 1 or here.

[DrewVa]

I just don't like the strongman attitude from tails here. Could be in his range, I guess. But I've seen a lot of things like "earned the right to live today" come from scum trying to position themselves as strong town voices.

Been scumreading him for awhile.

I should check out one of his towngames. I’ve only played with scum!Tails before this.

[DrewVa]

Amzela, Cheeky, me and Creature shouldn’t be there but then it’s a Nero list, so I would expect to be a permanent fixture on his scumlist in every damn game.

Isn't this only our 3rd game? I don't think my track record for reading you is [i[THAT[/i] wrong. Like I scum read your slotin that game you were scum and then I scum read your slot ONLY b/c of TW. TBF, I was a little paranoid afterwords b/c you were saying the EXACT same things as me but I wasn't hard scum reading you at all. This seems very discredity.

Okay, fair. Maybe I should have asked you WHY you are scumreading me here?

[DrewVa]

Clemency’s posting has only kind of supported my scumread on Chickadee imo.

In the meantime, RR you worry me.

-DV

Clarification. I think clem’s posting is scummy. Realised that was unclear

Which posts are you talking about?

1846 is the most concerning post from me.

He states that he understands the wagon because of how inactive the slot was, which just seems incredibly fake to me. It comes across as trying to sound conciliatory and reasonable, but since when did inactivity alone justify someone being the leading wagon? Why would Clem, as town who knows Chickadee was town, support the idea of town wagoning her on inactivity alone?

The fact that it's followed later by 1869 makes it kind of worse imo? It fits my interpretation of Clem's posts being designed to look "transparent" and "carefree" without actually coming from genuine thought processes.

It also bugs me that Clemency came in to decry their wagon and then kinda ghosted but I guess it hasn't been that long?
Or are they posting a bunch and I just didn't realize?

I don't think it's been that long at all, the game is just moving fast generally speaking I think? They're not posting all that much though...like more than Chickadee, but nothing super notable. Their content has been basically empty though. Pretty bad scum defense attempt if they are scum, and my standard BoP for strangers makes me feel that's more likely to come from town just not feeling like dealing with the shit their predecessor left for them.

-Cerb

Honestly I think what you're using as a defence for Clemency is likely not too significant, and if anything is more reason to think them scum. If Clem's town, they don't need to care that much about the wagon on them. Town's objective is to find scum. Not post a flurry of posts that don't really mean anything and then disappear once it seems like that's not lessening the suspicion on them. Scum's agenda in this case is, first and foremost, to not get lynched. True, good scum will push through and continue "scumhunting" and trying to look town, but good town will also continue to be engaged with the game. Obviously the apathy could come from both alignments, but imo if anything scum are more likely to get disheartened from getting nowhere with their efforts to look town.

- DV

Not commenting on Clem/Chick slot here. I can say that being wagoned totally does affect my game and makes me not care if the wagon is peristant or continues long enough. I was in a game awhile ago offsite, where I did everything possible to convince everyone I was town and it either made no difference or it made everything worse. I actually lost complete confidence in being able to convince town to accurately read me, that I became totally discouraged and gave up. So, I freely admit that what you’re saying wouldn’t apply to me at all. I even got so mad, I temp self-voted in protest.

My main point is that it can happen in both alignments tbf.

Yes that is true. One really good tell, I’ve seen in general is that scum are far more likely to just roll over, where as town tends to be far more aggressive in fighting votes off of them. It’s a kind if sense if being doomed that caught scum tend to have. Town is far more likely to be just pissed.

[DrewVa]

I just don't like the strongman attitude from tails here. Could be in his range, I guess. But I've seen a lot of things like "earned the right to live today" come from scum trying to position themselves as strong town voices.

Been scumreading him for awhile.

Okay, I just looked up a couple of Tails’ town games and one scum game and I think you may be right.

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=65474&user_select%5B%5D=26783

Tails’ town game

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=72129&user_select%5B%5D=26783

Tails’ scum game.

[DrewVa]

VOTE: Tails

He is only agressive like this in his scum games, based on my meta check.

[DrewVa]

Nero made that multi vote post after making a comment that too many people were either naked voting or ok with it. Suspecting it isn’t a read list...

Sort of. At first I was gonna do a bunch of naked votes individually but then I was like "eh, I don't really want to add that much clutter" Mighta been funny(ier?) that way though, idk. But I'm not a completely useless troll so my votes are vaguely how I feel right now. It's a combination of who I scum read and who I wouldn't mind seeing dead.

I'm not really hard scumreading

Mala

though I could envision a scenario where scum Mala just lurks it out.

Read my ISO for my thoughts on

RCE, BUJ

, and

Cheeky

. Another thing about Cheeky-I think it was Nancy that said it, is that Cheeky isn't being as active as she was in Overkill 1 and at the time I was like "Yeah, she's scum."

Creature

has been pretty useless so far. He's certainly capable of posting burts of activity to fool

Tor

people so I think town reading him based on a string of posts isn't a good way to read him, Also the whole Chick was pushing a scum Creature and Creature's buddies are chainsaw defening him makes some sense to me.

I mostly stand by my earlier defense of

Chick.

Like I don't see it has a total impossibility that she flips scum but

Clems

posting has been pretty bad and it almost seems like he's trying to lurk his way through. Though its possible that its just shit timing that he gets busy or something (i know its happened to me) So I'm not going to pout if this wagon goes through and I'm more than willing to eat crow if it flips scum.

On the other side of that argument, I felt like

Pint's

case on Chick was not great and maybe manipulative. So I'm gut scum reading him. I think there was something else but I forgot was that was.

I kinda forgot why I had a negative view of the

Nancy hydra

but I will say that I'm not fond of her discrediting me a few posts ago.

I'm also not hard scumreading

Amzela

but in my mind, it's not impossible that she's just scum that's going to jump on w/e wagon happens.

Alchemist

I just didn't like his jum on the Chck/clem wagon.

Fortian

is a combination of meta and I think his scumhunting is a bit limited in its scope. I mean, its been FOREVER since I played with DV but my memory is that he's a short posting troll as town and actully does stuff as scum.

When did I ever say I didn’t think Cheeky was being as active here? I think I remember someone - maybe Bujaber, I think? who said that.

Anyway, fair of you to think I was discrediting you, Perhaps, I just have a skewed perception of how you read me but your reaction to it, definitely sounds townie and reasonable.

[DrewVa]

VOTE: Tails

He is only agressive like this in his scum games, based on my meta check.

VOTE: Tails


I'm glad this wagon can exist now.

Especially, in comparison to Nero’s reaction to me, Tails’ sounds like he has made up his mind on my slot. scum!Thor aggressively told me, he wanted me to “die in a fire”, in Overkill 1, so his push on me in that game reads similar to Tails’ in this one. It’s the kind of over the top kind of thing, that more often than not, tends to come from scum.

Town is usually more like I’m currently scumreading you based on X, give me some reason why should townread you, or words to that effect. Town wants to sort, scum wants to confibias.

[DrewVa]

P.edit

Can someone explain to me why we're not voting the Drew hydra anymore? Because I just finished with the RR nonsense, and

I really want that slot dead.

Thor in Overkill 1

In a fire scum, go die in it

[DrewVa]

For the record,

I kinda want to vig Nero and have no opinion on DGB. So wouldn't mind lynching either one, although I think there are better options.

Why does Tails want to lynch a slot, he has “no opinion on”. This post strikes me as scummy. It reads like he’s putting Nero and DGB on notice but not wanting to vote either.

[DrewVa]

When did I ever say I didn’t think Cheeky was being as active here? I think I remember someone - maybe Bujaber, I think? who said that.

Does it matter who said it?

Yeah it does. If I misattributed someone else’s comments to you, wouldn’t you correct it?

[DrewVa]

If I was a foxy lil bitch I'd definately want to do Alonzo...

@Nancy, I do think Alonzo is now officially in

unusually weird

territory -D

[DrewVa]

Sure but I'm not calling you scummy for it. Why does my misattributing something to you make you angry?

I’m not suggesting you did and why do you think it made me “angry”? I wasn’t angry. I didn’t view it as any kind of deliberate misrepping or anything. I just wanted to be clear.

[DrewVa]

Not comfortable with Hebi just sheeping people.
Hebi, whyyy

I have similar thoughts, but she’s actively bringing up that she’s just sheeping in a kill heavy game, so that’s kind of lean townie to me

I’ve been townreading her, ever since she referenced that Wisdom game. That read townie to me.

[DrewVa]

If I was a foxy lil bitch I'd definately want to do Alonzo...

???

[DrewVa]

How is activity AI Nero? Also I've posted more than at least 50% of this game. I literally said I was VLAish for the first week in signups before BuJaber kept harping on about my lack of activity and I'm still pretty busy but keeping up when I can.

The only other thing you scumread me for is "going with the flow" which I've pointed out is founded on your lack of info at that point. Unlike Tails I don’t think you're scum because I expect you to make these erm interesting uninformed pushes plus I'm not going to pin cheating on Majiffy's rep out.

If you're busy I'm sorry. But people like nancy were meta reading you based on activity and that made no sense to me. I'm calling out shitty reasons.

I was townreading her based on her play here, which seems similar to me in Overkill 1. Obviously, you disagree.

[DrewVa]

But also I am actively pushing for a tails lynch, please lynch tails.

Reg and I have a pretty decent townread on Tails. A big part of it is the way he responded to my questioning of him earlier in the game. Can explain more when not at work if required.

I would feel more confident in that if you’d ISO him in Overkill 1. I based my vote, on the metacheck I did on a couple of his towngames and another scumgame.

[DrewVa]

Not comfortable with Hebi just sheeping people.
Hebi, whyyy

I have similar thoughts, but she’s actively bringing up that she’s just sheeping in a kill heavy game, so that’s kind of lean townie to me

I’ve been townreading her, ever since she referenced that Wisdom game. That read townie to me.

You keep saying that, but it's an incredible weak indicator either way; definitely not enough to base a read on.

-Cerb

Well, I can also vouch for what she’s said about sheeping. The only game I’ve played with scum!Hebi was in Minuet and in her very first post, she voted her scum partner Mastina for making an fake IC claim. Hers was the only vote on that slot.

[DrewVa]

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=76536&user_select%5B%5D=25722

VOTE: Mastina

There's no way this is a real claim.

Why the hell would you even claim it day one.

As for people voting me, I'm not buddying, I'm trying to sort by the meta I remember. Wisdom seems off, most everyone else including keade and grapes seem very similar to past games I have played with them.

Actually, it was her 5th post but it was very suspicious how she immediately disbelieved her claim.

@Cerb

[DrewVa]

His not changing his read on me is concerning

Then do something to change my mind.

I have, that’s at least a part of why I’m suspicious of you

[DrewVa]

I just don't like the strongman attitude from tails here. Could be in his range, I guess. But I've seen a lot of things like "earned the right to live today" come from scum trying to position themselves as strong town voices.

Been scumreading him for awhile.

Okay, I just looked up a couple of Tails’ town games and one scum game and I think you may be right.

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=65474&user_select%5B%5D=26783

Tails’ town game

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=72129&user_select%5B%5D=26783

Tails’ scum game.

So...I only have 5 games that I've played with this alt. The last few have been a year apart, but that doesn't matter except to say that between Detective Conan, Jungle Republic, and now, I've kinda forgotten how I tend to play with this hydra. I just follow the keyword: trolly, and go from there.
But still, it shouldn't be that difficult to look at

all

my games. And if you did so, you know who my main is. And if you actually did due diligence and looked there, your argument falls apart in 2 seconds.

VOTE: Tails

He is only agressive like this in his scum games, based on my meta check.

All that to say this, an actual meta check would show that I tend to get aggressive with my pushes. And I don't think I've been anywhere near as aggressive as last game. And in both of these games, my facade has slipped more often than earlier games.

No, I have no idea who your main is. Tell me. Have I played with you before Overkill 1?

[DrewVa]

scum!Thor aggressively told me, he wanted me to “die in a fire”, in Overkill 1, so his push on me in that game reads similar to Tails’ in this one.

You got me. I'm a Thor alt.

It’s the kind of over the top kind of thing, that more often than not, tends to come from scum.

Town is usually more like I’m currently scumreading you based on X, give me some reason why should townread you, or words to that effect. Town wants to sort, scum wants to confibias.

Saying that you want a slot to die isn't all that unusual. Or even that you wouldn't mind a slot dying. Speaking of, Nero just said the same thing, and I don't see you getting up in arms there.

I neve said you were a Thor alt, just pointing out that he did something very similar as scum in Overkill 1. As for Nero, how is what he said similar to you specifically calling for my slot specifically to die? I also think Nero is town here based on meta. I obviously don’t townread you. I think if you were town here, you would be sincerely attempting to sort me, rather than calling for my death. Why aren’t you even trying to do that at all? All I see is you confibiasing on me and when I ask you about my recent posting, you intentionally misrep what I said and imply I’m saying something else entirely.

[DrewVa]

His not changing his read on me is concerning

Then do something to change my mind.

I have, that’s at least a part of why I’m suspicious of you

Sounds like your problem. Not mine.

Right now all I'm seeing is the same thing I saw with Wisdom and RR. You attack until they either back off or change their mind.

Really? You actually think they’re both going to either back off or change their read on me, because according to you, I’m “attacking” them? Do you have any idea how scummy this is coming accross? You must have a very low opinion of both of them, if you really believe that experienced players with strong personalities like them, would just roll over like that. Unfreakingbelievable.

[DrewVa]

if you actually meta'd this alt, it's pretty obvious.

You're a hydra of RadiantCowbells and Titus! I knew it all along! -D

[DrewVa]

Amuse me nancy, since a huge portion of your posts have the words "based on meta".

How do you go about determining someone's meta? Your methodology?

I either base it on play - actual experience I’ve had playing with them or from meta checks. I did one on a recent scumgame of yours and I didn’t find any connection to it - either with this game or Overkill 1.

It obviously isn’t foolproof, because it’s seems pretty likely that I was wrong about Majiffy, so I use it mostly, to supplement my reads, not as a replacement for them. My most accurate meta reads are based on actual games I’ve had with the designated player. Those types of checks tend to bet the most reliable.

[DrewVa]

All I'm seeing is that whenever anyone thinks you're scum, you either call them scum or a horrible person. You continue to attack them until they back off.
And when I just pointed that out, you then try to turn the subject around again by telling me I must have a low opinion of those you attacked. You seriously just blamed the victims!
I said, "Here's this pattern of behavior from you." Your response is "Well, then you must think very little of them then." Like, how does B come from C?

You obviously must, because if what you’re suggesting is to be believed , these experienced players, are just going to be this easily manipulated. Do you honestly believe this?, because I really don’t believe you do. And it’s posts like this one, is why I think you’re scum here. Wisdom has never played with scum!me but RR has - twice. I’ve only had 3 scumgames on this site - 5 in total but I’ve somehow managed to pull the wool over players’ eyes with a great deal more experience than me? I almost think you might be trolling me with this now.

[DrewVa]

One of your newest arguments is that I'm not even trying to sort you. But this is really code for "Stop scum reading me and back off!". It always comes back around to someone thinks you're scum, and you either have to say they're scum, an a-hole, not reading, or incapable of reading you. There might be another excuse I missed, but still. Your focus this game has been on what other people think of you and minimizing the damage of scum reads. And that means tearing through the thread like a tornado when doubt on you comes into play.

Nothing you’ve been saying is changing my mind on you, because you’re clearly not trying to sort me. Convince me otherwise and I’ll re-evaluate my read on you.

[DrewVa]

@pint: Watch out! She might call you scum next!

Or you could just try to read my posts without confibiasing me. Just a thought.

[DrewVa]

As for who I am, if you actually meta'd this alt, it's pretty obvious. Otherwise, I'm going to play as is. If I wanted to play as my main, I would have signed up under that account.

If I'm correct, it took me five minutes, and I'm not a meta reader at all

So tell me then. I can do a metacheck on the main and test my results.

[DrewVa]

if you actually meta'd this alt, it's pretty obvious.

You're a hydra of RadiantCowbells and Titus! I knew it all along! -D

I know you’re joking here, because I actually know the name of that hydra and it’s not Tails. Thanks for the laugh though. <3

[DrewVa]

As for who I am, if you actually meta'd this alt, it's pretty obvious. Otherwise, I'm going to play as is. If I wanted to play as my main, I would have signed up under that account.

If I'm correct, it took me five minutes, and I'm not a meta reader at all

So tell me then. I can do a metacheck on the main and test my results.

That's like telling you a secret in front of the person who told me not to tell anyone.
If he doesn't explicitly say it, why would I?

Okay fine but I have no idea who is alt is but I’ll respect this. Anyway, if I’ve never played with him before, it probably doesn’t really matter anyway.

[DrewVa]

You insinuated that I couldn't possibly have read to still have a scum read on you after your attack on RR. Not only did I call bull crap on that, I also pointed out the post that really bugged me and led me to believe that you were manipulating the town's emotions in your favor.

I asked you specifically what your opinion of my posts since then. I’m still waiting for you to answer that.

[DrewVa]

One of your newest arguments is that I'm not even trying to sort you. But this is really code for "Stop scum reading me and back off!". It always comes back around to someone thinks you're scum, and you either have to say they're scum, an a-hole, not reading, or incapable of reading you. There might be another excuse I missed, but still. Your focus this game has been on what other people think of you and minimizing the damage of scum reads. And that means tearing through the thread like a tornado when doubt on you comes into play.

Nothing you’ve been saying is changing my mind on you, because you’re clearly not trying to sort me. Convince me otherwise and I’ll re-evaluate my read on you.

I could, but we both know this is just empty phrasing to justify your supposed scum read on my slot.

Do it then. Show me that you actually want to read me correctly, rather than just continue to confibias me. Are you worried, your scumread on me might be lessened? Because if I’m wrong here, you know that’s impossible. Yeah?

[DrewVa]

Okay fine but I have no idea who is alt is but I’ll respect this. Anyway, if I’ve never played with him before, it probably doesn’t really matter anyway.

Have you played with every single player you have metaread in this game? Why metareading Tails in the first place?

Siri, add Tails to my lynch list.

Welcome to the sane people. We will take your coat.

You’re scumreading Tails too? His not changing his read on me is concerning as is his pushing Cheeky but does that necessarily make him scum here or am I missing something?

I guess to be fair, he isn’t the easiest slot to sort by meta. He pushed Cheeky, RR and Bujaber in last game, with not all that different sounding arguments.

I just don't like the strongman attitude from tails here. Could be in his range, I guess. But I've seen a lot of things like "earned the right to live today" come from scum trying to position themselves as strong town voices.

Been scumreading him for awhile.

[DrewVa]

@Nancy, check in with me real fast in the PT - D

[DrewVa]

@DrewVa: Why are you acting like we townread you?
-Cerb

???

[DrewVa]

Tails I'm not super into this thing with you two but you did a mainhunt challenge so can I confirm that your main starts with the letter B? - D

[DrewVa]

I like how this was probably to consult on who Tails main is.

spoiler - it was --D

[DrewVa]

Do it then. Show me that you actually want to read me correctly, rather than just continue to confibias me. Are you worried, your scumread on me might be lessened? Because if I’m wrong here, you know that’s impossible. Yeah?

You have until the end of d2 to prove me wrong. I won't stop poking at things I don't like or understand. So you're not getting off easy. If you fail to convince me otherwise, you're dead come d3.

How am I supposed to convince you of jack, when you’re clearly not fucking reading a goddamned thing I post. I’m town you fucking nm, you’re not fucking worth getting force-replaced over. Just do whatever and mislynch me. If you’re actually town here, I will fucking torment you in the dead thread. Bank on it!

Just stop with the bullshit threats, you don’t want to be fucking convinced of anything. You just want to target me. If you are somehow not scum here, then you are the absolute WOAT in this entire game.

[DrewVa]

Amuse me nancy, since a huge portion of your posts have the words "based on meta".

How do you go about determining someone's meta? Your methodology?

I either base it on play - actual experience I’ve had playing with them or from meta checks. I did one on a recent scumgame of yours and I didn’t find any connection to it - either with this game or Overkill 1.

It obviously isn’t foolproof, because it’s seems pretty likely that I was wrong about Majiffy, so I use it mostly, to supplement my reads, not as a replacement for them. My most accurate meta reads are based on actual games I’ve had with the designated player. Those types of checks tend to bet the most reliable.

This doesn't answer my questions. To be able to take your cases seriously I need to know the way you analyze the different games to determine someone's meta. What kind of things do you look for to compare and contrast and why.

It doesn't have to be an essay just give me an idea of what you do. You seem to come to your meta conclusions really quickly and I'm sort of skeptical that you're approach actually yields any useful result.

And can we stop with the tails alt discussion? It's a waste of time, and it's really really easy to know who his main is and he explicitly states he plays differently on this alt. (Not that I've ever played with his main.. these are just his words)

Experience and play always trumps metachecks, because I think I was obviously wrong about Majiffy but sometimes, it can be really useful, if a player’s town and scum meta are very different. Anyway, genius DVa already figured out Tails’ alt and it’s irrelevant to me, because I’ve never played with it. I don’t know whether DVa has or not.

[DrewVa]

Hey Drew! Are you going to do something useful with your vote, or are you going to continue to whine about how I'll never town read you?

Your flattery isn’t working on me.

[DrewVa]

All I'm seeing is that whenever anyone thinks you're scum, you either call them scum or a horrible person. You continue to attack them until they back off.
And when I just pointed that out, you then try to turn the subject around again by telling me I must have a low opinion of those you attacked. You seriously just blamed the victims!
I said, "Here's this pattern of behavior from you." Your response is "Well, then you must think very little of them then." Like, how does B come from C?

You obviously must, because if what you’re suggesting is to be believed , these experienced players, are just going to be this easily manipulated. Do you honestly believe this?, because I really don’t believe you do. And it’s posts like this one, is why I think you’re scum here. Wisdom has never played with scum!me but RR has - twice. I’ve only had 3 scumgames on this site - 5 in total but I’ve somehow managed to pull the wool over players’ eyes with a great deal more experience than me? I almost think you might be trolling me with this now.

This statement that its ridiculous thst you've managed to pull the wool over experienced players eyes implies that you're being townread by us, and are using that fact as a reason why others should be townreading you, when in fact we aren't townreading you. We resolved the earlier situation, but that just means we stopped weighting that interaction one way or the other. I've seen nothing outside of your scum range in your play today, and so have no reason to townread you.

@Tail: won't be happening except to ensure we don't no lynch. Far more informative to me to keep that extra vote open on all the wagons to see how people move around, and unlike Overkill 1 we've basically failed at voting like normal people instead of ourselves, so fuck it.

-Cerb

I will switch my vote to avoid a no lynch. I mean that, Tails trying to suggest that I was some kind of scum savant, was ridiculous.

[DrewVa]

Anyway, genius DVa already figured out Tails’ alt

yeah that was really hard
Its not like he altslipped or anything

It doesn’t matter anyway to me and he was the one who brought that up. Alts are only relevant to me, if I’ve played with them before, which is not the case.

[DrewVa]

Can we get chickadee today and DGB tomorrow? If I need the puppy dog eyes ok but...

No.
Chick/Clem seems to be a LHF push based on activity

The thing is town!Chick fights like hell to get votes off of her. She wasn’t really too upset about the votes on her, before she replaced out. However, I’m not sure if I necessarily see the scum motivation in her Creature push but Chick replacing out rather than doing anything about her wagon, makes me wonder.

[DrewVa]

I will switch my vote to avoid a no lynch. I mean that, Tails trying to suggest that I was some kind of scum savant, was ridiculous.

Maybe.
But it wasn't scummy.
Read the room - that wagon is dead on arrival.

Do you oppose the Bujabber wagon?

No, why do you think Bujaber is a better lynch than Clem?

[DrewVa]

Gamma I would have switched to DGB if I thought there was enough time to lynch that slot but it seems futile. Why don't you like the clem wagon?

What changed from the time DGB was one of the leading wagons to now? There was absolutely a chance to wagon DGB and it fell apart pretty quickly.

She was vaguely scummy before, but she continued not to post solidifying the read. And I didn't really sense that a lot of people were willing to vote her at any point during the game. Did you notice a time in which there was?

People scumreading DrewVa do you have scum meta of Nancy being aggressive and all up in people's business? Because it feels like she took a confidence booster shot between overkill 1 and 2.

I know her meta arguments are pretty weak and her perspective seems severely biased I just don't see it being scummy for her.

Are you claiming scum Nancy is never aggressive/town Nancy is aggressive?

Neither. I'm asking for confirmation that she can have this much range in her confidence or an explanation for her change in approach from overkill 1. My impression was that it's more than a playstyle thing it's a personality thing which is much harder to change from game to game.

I think this is more likely to come from town though.

[DrewVa]

A Blood-Thirsty Stallone D1

The heat is on, on the street
Inside your head, on every beat
And the beat's so loud, deep inside
The pressure's high, just to stay alive
'Cause the heat is on

The shadows high on the darker side
Behind the doors, it's a wilder ride
You can make a break, you can win or lose
That's a chance you take, when the heat's on you
When the heat is on

Oh-wo-ho, oh-wo-ho
Caught up in the action I've been looking out for you
Oh-wo-ho, oh-wo-ho
(Tell me can you feel it)
(Tell me can you feel it)
(Tell me can you feel it)
The heat is on (yeah) the heat is on, the heat is on
It's on the street, the heat is on (i can feel the fire)

The heat is on (flames are burning higher)
The heat is on (baby can't you feel it)
Yeah, it's on the street
The heat is on (i can feel it the fire)
The heat is on (flames are burning higher)

Gamestart

Day 1 Begins

VC#0

Not Voting: Everyone

Deadline (expired on 2018-12-04 02:30:00)

We have until December 4th.

[DrewVa]

I think this is more likely to come from town though.

Why?
I can't even understand his actual stance and direction besides kind of loosely questioning people who want to lynch you. It sounded like a defence until I asked him about it and he sort of jibber-jabbered it into a null comment. Why does that look town?

He was saying that personality styles are harder to change than playstyles, right? What was your issue with that?

[DrewVa]

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=72578&user_select%5B%5D=16176

Chick scumgame. Chick’s meta isn’t AI.

[DrewVa]

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=72578&user_select%5B%5D=16176

Chick scumgame. Chick’s meta isn’t AI.

I mean, activity. d’oh.

[DrewVa]

Yeh, I'm not liking Gamma this game

Anyone townreads Gamma?

Why do you dislike Gamma?

[DrewVa]

Do you think we should stick with the Clemency lynch?

I honestly have no idea. But from ISOing her in a scumgame, her low activity in this game is NAI. I’ll sheep to avoid a no lynch. I’m just not confident it’s flipping red.

What do you think of that wagon? I think Bujaber or DGB gives us more information. \_0_/

[DrewVa]

Nancy, pls don't replace out like you did last game.

If you’re referring to anything other than CoH, it wasn’t by choice.

[DrewVa]

He was saying that personality styles are harder to change than playstyles, right? What was your issue with that?

He did say that.
I asked him if he saw it as town or scum sided for you.
He claimed neither.
So my issue is - why am I wasting time reading him investigating a question that he doesn't think will tell him your alignment.

But back to my original question to you - why do you TOWN read it?

@DrewVa

Gamma I would have switched to DGB if I thought there was enough time to lynch that slot but it seems futile. Why don't you like the clem wagon?

What changed from the time DGB was one of the leading wagons to now? There was absolutely a chance to wagon DGB and it fell apart pretty quickly.

She was vaguely scummy before, but she continued not to post solidifying the read. And I didn't really sense that a lot of people were willing to vote her at any point during the game. Did you notice a time in which there was?

People scumreading DrewVa do you have scum meta of Nancy being aggressive and all up in people's business? Because it feels like she took a confidence booster shot between overkill 1 and 2.

I know her meta arguments are pretty weak and her perspective seems severely biased

I just don't see it being scummy for her.

Are you claiming scum Nancy is never aggressive/town Nancy is aggressive?

Neither. I'm asking for confirmation that she can have this much range in her confidence or an explanation for her change in approach from overkill 1. My impression was that it's more than a playstyle thing it's a personality thing which is much harder to change from game to game.

He is saying he isn’t scumreading me because he thinks I’m far more confident in this game, than in Overkill 1, and he doesn’t think that’s easily fakeable?

@Bujaber, is this correct?

So, the thought process isn’t surfacey.

[DrewVa]

Hey Thor, you were imterested enough to ask Pint why he's scum reading me. What do you think of his reasoning?

I don't agree with it but it looked town minded.
i town read him.

He is saying he isn’t scumreading me because he thinks I’m far more confident in this game, than in Overkill 1, and he doesn’t think that’s easily fakeable?

@Bujaber, is this correct?

So, the thought process isn’t surfacey.

Welcome to the conversation I'm already having with him - feel free to try to parse Post 2299 yourself.

Now, back to my original question again - why do you town read him for this. Let;s even say your interpretation is 100% correct - why do you town read him for it?
Please try to answer me this time.

Are you suggesting he’s hedging?

[DrewVa]

i'll have to re-read to back up my claims but:
creature is town 100% money back guarantee
DrewVa feels off to me
i still don't see why bujaber is being considered a lynch this game
nero cain is scumleanish

Does scum try to object to their counterwagon?

[DrewVa]

@Fortian, what about Bujaber, what is your read on him?

[DrewVa]

@Fortian, what about Bujaber, what is your read on him?

Weak town read on him; can see some genuine progressions inside his reads and can see some questioning/actual solving attempts for him to try and resolve some of his question mark reads, example being his questioning people re; your meta/aggressiveness. I also kind of like his read on us here and think it's one that scum are slightly less likely to take. Only real concern I've got with his slot have to do with the way he moved on to Clemency here felt like it was a self-pres vote that was made to look like an actual read but there's some mentions of him scum reading Chickadee earlier on which makes that less problematic.

- Regfan

Okay, thanks.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Clemency

[DrewVa]

So you're saying it's a town read unless your read is wrong.
I've seen her confident as both alignments - what does that do to your read?

If I can trust you on this then she becomes a scumread

Nancy share with me the game you were with Thor and you were scum.

I want to see what he thinks confidence looks like.

The only game I’ve played as scum with Thor, is Overkill 1. Check my topics. I obviously wouldn’t make that up.

I’ve only been scum 3 times on this site: Heroes Wanted, Overkill 1 and Halloween Dance, only Overkill 1, had Thor on the playerlist.

[DrewVa]

Are you suggesting he’s hedging?

He is hedging, read his posts.

While you're at it - for the fourth time - could you describe why you see those posts as town.
I'm getting really tired of asking you over and over - if you're being a wuss and dodging it on purpose please man up and just say so.
If you're just too daft to figure out how to answer a question I'll keep asking.

He did say that.
I asked him if he saw it as town or scum sided for you.
He claimed neither.
So my issue is - why am I wasting time reading him investigating a question that he doesn't think will tell him your alignment.

This wasn't clear at all.
It is obvious I'm townreading her because I've been saying it. But I asked for the scum!cases on her because if I'm wrong about it being her personality then her confidence becomes NAI.

So you're saying it's a town read unless your read is wrong.
I've seen her confident as both alignments - what does that do to your read?

I answered you, it’s not my problem you don’t like my answer.

[DrewVa]

So you're saying it's a town read unless your read is wrong.
I've seen her confident as both alignments - what does that do to your read?

If I can trust you on this then she becomes a scumread

Not liking this post. The answer should be a nullread, based on what you’ve been suggesting. So, I agree with Thor that if you were to anything but nullread me, if Thor had played in any other game with me than Overkill 1, you were hedging.

So, unless he has an alt I don’t know about, the only completed game, I’ve ever played with him was that one.

[DrewVa]

We can try. Still think DGB is the partner here. If not it's Nero but I kinda like his late flip.

If Clem flips red, I would agree with that since based on meta, I'm townleaning Nero. I’m not a fan of DGB’s ISO. I think that DGB and Bujaber are never w/w here, or Nero/Bujaber as well - based on Majiffy vote.

[DrewVa]

Say the words pretty please? It's not often I'm right.

Yeah say em!

Somebody needs to protect my buddy RCE tonight. I think scum is afraid of him and I'll need him around tomorrow

Yeah, I’m townleaning him. I don’t understand the scumreads on him.

[DrewVa]

inb4 Toog is a hammer-enabled role and is steaming right now
What the hell

why do you think i went for it

Why would you self-vote as town, rather than try to get votes off of you?

[DrewVa]

So do you think Toog is not town, then?
Or are you just trying to inhibit town power because...?

No one should hammer but Toog. I’m putting an FOS on anyone else who does.

[DrewVa]

Think the selfhammer attempt is a scum claim. Can someone vote Clemency in case Hebis misspelling vote doesn't count so we can actually move on here please. Also DV gets no credit for this scum lynch, dudes still a noob.

No, we should wait until the vote count.

It’s very important to let Toog hammer

. Trust me on this, A50 will count Hebi’s vote but sure on the extremely unlikely chance that I’m wrong about this.

[DrewVa]

Catching up I see several people calling the chick/clemency wagon activity.
My read on that slot is

not

based on activity, and yours shouldn't be either.

There was plenty of activity and other wagons to notice and respond to, and Chickadee focused exclusively on Creature.
Clemency has posted tons but hasn't attempted to sort anyone. The scumtell is

not sorting

.
This year I've nailed half a dozen scum this way. (there have been a few mislynches because of it too, so it isn't perfect)

Trusting you on this, as well as Clemency’s suspicious self-vote.

[DrewVa]

Clemency is already hammered.

We could have tested out Toogeloo’s claim. Now, we have to wait until D2. :/

[DrewVa]

Think the selfhammer attempt is a scum claim. Can someone vote Clemency in case Hebis misspelling vote doesn't count so we can actually move on here please. Also DV gets no credit for this scum lynch, dudes still a noob.

No, we should wait until the vote count.

It’s very important to let Toog hammer

. Trust me on this, A50 will count Hebi’s vote but sure on the extremely unlikely chance that I’m wrong about this.

Elaborate?

I need a convincing answer in the next 9 minutes or I'll be hammering.

-Cerb

Don’t you think it important to verify Toogeloo’s role?

[DrewVa]

How do you verify Toog without him getting modkilled

He doesn’t, so long as he’s the hammer, if I’m understanding his role correctly.

I suppose it’s fine for now but whenever we can confirm a slot, it’s always a good thing, no?

[DrewVa]

Think the selfhammer attempt is a scum claim. Can someone vote Clemency in case Hebis misspelling vote doesn't count so we can actually move on here please. Also DV gets no credit for this scum lynch, dudes still a noob.

No, we should wait until the vote count.

It’s very important to let Toog hammer

. Trust me on this, A50 will count Hebi’s vote but sure on the extremely unlikely chance that I’m wrong about this.

Elaborate?

I need a convincing answer in the next 9 minutes or I'll be hammering.

-Cerb

Don’t you think it important to verify Toogeloo’s role?

No. It's not a test of anything. The only test of his claim is him actually voting someone prior to hammer, which he won't do.

-Cerb

Well, he would be modkilled in that case.

[DrewVa]

Toog hammering doesn't matter, he can be any role any alignment and hammer.

Okay, maybe I’m confused then, because in Overkill 1, people wanted to confirm Flicker’s role by doing that iirc?

[DrewVa]

Toog hammering doesn't matter, he can be any role any alignment and hammer.

Except priest

Maybe, I’m mixing up actor and priest?

[DrewVa]

How do you verify Toog without him getting modkilled

He doesn’t, so long as he’s the hammer, if I’m understanding his role correctly.

I suppose it’s fine for now but whenever we can confirm a slot, it’s always a good thing, no?

How does that confirm him though? That just means he can cast the hammer vote, not that he can’t cast any other votes.

Well, I just thought hammering would confirm him. \_0_/

[DrewVa]

GammaEmerald posts a lot about himself. Defensive?

What was the "joke claim?"

I’m townreading both Gamma and Creature. Creature testing out wagons, is town indicative for him.

[DrewVa]

How do you verify Toog without him getting modkilled

He doesn’t, so long as he’s the hammer, if I’m understanding his role correctly.

I suppose it’s fine for now but whenever we can confirm a slot, it’s always a good thing, no?

How does that confirm him though? That just means he can cast the hammer vote, not that he can’t cast any other votes.

Well, I just thought hammering would confirm him. \_0_/

How do you arrive at that conclusion? Seriously. Tell me what you thought Toog's role was, and what line of reasoning led you to that conclusion.

-Cerb

He’s an actor, right? So, hammering doesn’t confirm like with priest?

[DrewVa]

Toog hammering doesn't matter, he can be any role any alignment and hammer.

Except priest

Maybe, I’m mixing up actor and priest?

Yeah
The main thing that I think is making it weird is the policy change from “not counted” to “modkilled if transgressed”

OIC, so Flicker who was priest would have got modkilled for hammering then?

[DrewVa]

How do you verify Toog without him getting modkilled

He doesn’t, so long as he’s the hammer, if I’m understanding his role correctly.

I suppose it’s fine for now but whenever we can confirm a slot, it’s always a good thing, no?

How does that confirm him though? That just means he can cast the hammer vote, not that he can’t cast any other votes.

Well, I just thought hammering would confirm him. \_0_/

How do you arrive at that conclusion? Seriously. Tell me what you thought Toog's role was, and what line of reasoning led you to that conclusion.

-Cerb

He’s an actor, right? So, hammering doesn’t confirm like with priest?

You're asking me questions. I'm not here to explain this to you. I'm here to figure out why/how you believed what you believed.

-Cerb

I obviously need those questions answered first.

[DrewVa]

Toog hammering doesn't matter, he can be any role any alignment and hammer.

Except priest

Maybe, I’m mixing up actor and priest?

Yeah
The main thing that I think is making it weird is the policy change from “not counted” to “modkilled if transgressed”

OIC, so Flicker who was priest would have got modkilled for hammering then?

No, we were able to prove Flicker’s role BECAUSE he wouldn’t be modkilled.
Since casting an invalid vote results in modkilled here Actor/Priest can’t be proven the same way.

Okay thanks for clarifying that.

[DrewVa]

How do you verify Toog without him getting modkilled

He doesn’t, so long as he’s the hammer, if I’m understanding his role correctly.

I suppose it’s fine for now but whenever we can confirm a slot, it’s always a good thing, no?

How does that confirm him though? That just means he can cast the hammer vote, not that he can’t cast any other votes.

Well, I just thought hammering would confirm him. \_0_/

How do you arrive at that conclusion? Seriously. Tell me what you thought Toog's role was, and what line of reasoning led you to that conclusion.

-Cerb

He’s an actor, right? So, hammering doesn’t confirm like with priest?

You're asking me questions. I'm not here to explain this to you. I'm here to figure out why/how you believed what you believed.

-Cerb

I obviously need those questions answered first.

If you didn't know the answer to those questions, how did you have such certainty that it was VERY IMPORTANT that the hammer be saved for Toog?

-Cerb

I obviously believed it was and turns out I was wrong. You know, you could choose to work with me and be helpful like Gamma was. I think we’re on the same side here?

[DrewVa]

Oh hi.
If I don't make it through the night:
Townreads: Fortian, BuJaber, Varsoon, davesaz, Toogeloo, Tails
Townleans: RR, Alonzo, Gamma, Thor, BrownEyedGirl, RCE
Null: Creature, Alchemist, Cheeky, hebichan, FlavorLeaf, Amzela
Scumlean: DrewVa, Wisdom, Malakitty
Scumreads: profii, DrippingGoofball
Special offer: if Clem=scum, Nero=kill it with fire; if Clem=anything else, Nero=null

Byeeeeeeee

Brown Eyed Girl=BEF?

[DrewVa]

My advice... TRUST NO ONE, NOT EVEN YOURSELF
No, for real, I'm pretty sure about my townreads, so if you feel a little lost, try to sort them out yourself and believe in the me that believes in you and in the heart of cards

P-edit: eff you Brown Eyed Girl, I'm not inviting you to my party

Why shouldn’t you trust yourself?

[DrewVa]

Hmm not so fast.

???

[DrewVa]

@Cerb, you should know by now that derping for me is NAI, so you giving me a hard time over anything like that is unwarranted.

I legit misunderstood siren’s call in Heroes, you can check the scum PT, if you’re doubting that. I also misread the Martyr role PM in Overkill . You can check every damn game I’ve ever been in, if you’re going to scumread me for this.

I know Varsoon thinks I shouldn’t get upset since you’re wrongly scumreading me here but it really is maddening. :/

[DrewVa]

Brown Eyed Girl=BEF?

Is that Sean Connery?

[DrewVa]

[DrewVa]

Oh hi.
If I don't make it through the night:
Townreads: Fortian, BuJaber, Varsoon, davesaz, Toogeloo, Tails
Townleans: RR, Alonzo, Gamma, Thor, BrownEyedGirl, RCE
Null: Creature, Alchemist, Cheeky, hebichan, FlavorLeaf, Amzela
Scumlean: DrewVa, Wisdom, Malakitty
Scumreads: profii, DrippingGoofball
Special offer: if Clem=scum, Nero=kill it with fire; if Clem=anything else, Nero=null

Byeeeeeeee

Brown Eyed Girl=BEF?

Spoiler:

[DrewVa]

Brown Eyed Girl=BEF?

Spoiler:

[DrewVa]

I dunno guys

Clemency seems really town

Lynch me instead, I'm town too but at least I'm useless.

You’re too late, we’ve already hammered but we’re taking advance requests for D2 and you can be first in line.



Mafia should always be this easy.

[DrewVa]

I dunno guys

Clemency seems really town

Lynch me instead, I'm town too but at least I'm useless.

Here's someone trying to look like a jester. Can someone kill her while she sleeps?

[DrewVa]

I half expected drewva to die in the night and Tails to claim TK.

Why? And wtf is TK?

[DrewVa]

I’m surprised at the no kills but this time, I’m not unhappy about it.







And props to A50, for having awesome taste in music. I hope, he appreciates mine as well.

[DrewVa]

I know you wanted me to dive some people but let's do this for a little while ok Nancy?

VOTE: Gamma -- D

[DrewVa]

VOTE: Toogeloo
Actual factual sheeping the better logic here.

Why don't you like DGB, RCE?

I also think Bujaber's still scum and likely did a late bus of Clem when it was apparent that was the only wagon that would go through.

I also recall Toogeloo being much more of an impressive player in previous games where they were town.

If you still think Bujaber is scum, then why are you voting Toogeloo? Do you think he’s lying about his role and flavour?

If not, then do you really think that A50 would make Rocky a scum role? I mean, sure it could be a fake claim but why would anyone want to essentially play like a tree stump?

[DrewVa]

I know you wanted me to dive some people but let's do this for a little while ok Nancy?

VOTE: Gamma -- D

DVa, I think Gamma’s town here. Why are you voting him?

[DrewVa]

Could it be possible that there was a game mechanic that disallowed any N1 NKs? Or were our protective roles on point?

Eh, the Lightening Rod role in Overkill 1, kind of fucked scum. I seriously doubt A50 tries it again in this game. So, some other reason or could be protectives, that would make the most sense.

[DrewVa]

i'll have to re-read to back up my claims but:
creature is town 100% money back guarantee
DrewVa feels off to me

i still don't see why bujaber is being considered a lynch this game

nero cain is scumleanish

Possible rule of the 3 or rather 4?

[DrewVa]

@DrewVA: Go back and look at Clem's self-hammer play regarding Toog.
I also am not a fan of flavor-gaming this when the mod literally just got his setup whooped by flavor-spec and went out of his way to make this one unbreakable by it. I fully believe that Rocky would be a fake-claim or scum role.

Can you either find the quote(s) or link it? I couldn’t find anything in Clem’s ISO at the time of the self-hammer where he mentioned Toogeloo.

Or are you basing this on Toogeloo’s reaction(s) to Clem wagon?

[DrewVa]

Never seen you building names before. When did you pick that behavior up?

this post bothers me tonally, but mostly I just like Creature and want to help him sort Gamma. I do think Gamma has some town equity but he also has a few posts that bother me a bit like this one -- D

[DrewVa]

Spoiler:

One more vote on Clem and I will hammer.

I don't have a read on Clem before anyone asks. I've mostly been skim milking this, but 14 other people can't really be wrong.

I feel like there was a missed opportunity for a good laugh about "Bright Eyed and Bushy Tailed" when the two argued a few pages back.

4 more votes on Clem... chompin' at the bit here.

Still think Toogs town but if he is then I really would like to / need to see some actual thoughts and solving from him, I get the whole "Can't vote, minimal influence on what's going on" type of thing particularly initially, but it's not something that can be maintained throughout the game like that at all and the longer it keeps going the weaker my read there is getting. Pretty much if you're town dude I need you to start playing the game soon.

Meh... I'll get to it if I'm still alive and we get under like 15ish players. For now, I'm cool just reading and vote counting.

Awesome... now I don't need to keep referring to page 92 to cross reference anyone trying to trick me and get me mod killed ^_^.

[DrewVa]

This

inb4 Toog is a hammer-enabled role and is steaming right now
What the hell

inb4 Toog is a hammer-enabled role and is steaming right now
What the hell

why do you think i went for it

Ah, yeah that’s definitely weird but why does scum!Clem admit to it though?

He obviously self-hammered so Toogeloo couldn’t but why not just get another scumbuddy to do the hammer. Why draw so much attention to it?

Chick, when you’re able, what is your read on Toog and why?

I'm town reading Toog. I think the way they initially claimed was genuine. I think it came from a place of wanting to be upfront about they wouldn't be voting. There hasn't been a lot of redeeming posts since then, but I understand the frustration.

I also don't hold it against anyone to find their "oh it exists" post scummy though.

However, this post by Chick, as RR pointed out, does tend to make me think, you could be right about this.

[DrewVa]

P.edit. Both Clem’s self-hammer to presumably prevent Toogeloo from hammering, plus Chick’s townread of Toogeloo are pretty damning, when combined together.


VOTE: Toogeloo

[DrewVa]

Never seen you building names before. When did you pick that behavior up?

this post bothers me tonally, but mostly I just like Creature and want to help him sort Gamma. I do think Gamma has some town equity but he also has a few posts that bother me a bit like this one -- D

Sorry but I think the case on Toogeloo is a lot stronger.

~N

[DrewVa]

i'll have to re-read to back up my claims but:
creature is town 100% money back guarantee
DrewVa feels off to me

i still don't see why bujaber is being considered a lynch this game

nero cain is scumleanish

Possible rule of the 3 or rather 4?

These are like the only reads he gave, it wouldn't surprise me if all of his scumteam were slots not mentioned.

Well, we’ll find that out, if/when Bujaber flips. Creature is probably townlock both from this and Chick push.