A Story Revisited (Anything uPick): Day 6

[Nero Cain]

I voted NSG who is prob scum with Varsoon anyways.

[Nero Cain]

last time I ask.

Nero: what do you mean "A Titus scum read comes with the following applications
-lurking

-lazy/go with the flow/wtf Pork vote"

that's interesting because titus said as scum she tried controlling things more than as town, and she's actually been quite active as scum before. So are you lying here

nero - i've been consulting with Right Head regarding your Titus question and other reads, and we'll post about that once we reached a conclusion

Vote Titus

Actually, I'd like to hear more about the progression of accusing me of lying/light defending Titus to voting her.

[Nero Cain]

shoshin, if you knew that you were going to eventually join the game why did you stop taking notes d1?

[Nero Cain]

This sorta feels like scum that knows Shoshin isn't on his team.

If anything I’d guess slightly more likely to be 3p from the timing.

Its just as possible that they land town or mafia so the suggestion that she's more likely to be 3p instead of mafia seems off.

[Nero Cain]

shoshin, if you knew that you were going to eventually join the game why did you stop taking notes d1?

but not being in the game really killed my motivation to keep up, so I'm reading through now.

i mean you did explain it I guess but I'm still that you are conveniently behind.

[Nero Cain]

2) Northsidegal
3) Firebringer Maid Cafe (MariaR & Beeboy)
11) Invisibility
13) Whemestar
18) Jingle
20) Creature
22) Aristophanes
23) Shoshin

^^^^
is where we should lynch or gladiate today.

[Nero Cain]

Why would you lynch me? What kind of logic is that?

If I wanted you lynched then I'd be voting you instead of NSG. I'm scum reading you b/c I think your a little scummy for being 200 pages behind when you knew you were going to eventually join this game. Also not a fan of the OMGUS vote or the cheap appeal at using RC's words to imply to you are kinda mod confirmed or some such.

[Nero Cain]

about?

[Nero Cain]

Nero Cain knows all.

[Nero Cain]

Lynching town is the scum motivation

that's...really weak. You can do better, at least I hope you can.

@Jingle

Can you explain why you think Shoshin is more likely to be 3p than mafia?

[Nero Cain]

I get the same vibe from Nero as I do from JJh, although moreso day 1 than now.

What's that?

Nero, can you talk to me about your reads on Fire & Jingle?

but I'd have to effort if I use quotes and pretty formatting. I'll get to this sometime after football but why are you specifically asking about those 2?

I was agreeing with Skygazer earlier that this doesn't look exactly like her scum game. So its a meta read and I think there are scummier slots in the game.

How far have you read now?

[Nero Cain]

though pointing me to specific posts would be helpful.

but I'd still have to find the post numbers and jazz. You could just read my ISO instead of asking me to do your work for you.

I knew you read the first ten pages but you need/should be trying to catch up. Now why are you asking about Jingle and Fire?

[Nero Cain]

so you just avoid the VC's. It's really not as hard as you are making it seem to be.

[Nero Cain]

Are you town, Invis? If you're replacing out, at least do us one last favor and tell us your partners if you're scum?

wow, that's bad

[Nero Cain]

I think Vis is absolutely active lurking though.

[Nero Cain]

I like Shoshin.

Beyond voting NSG what do you like?

@nero how familiar are you with invis? have you played in games with him?

I don't think I've ever played with him and if I did it was his presence was totally forgettable.

I think Vis is absolutely active lurking though.

not sure why hes replacing because "its shoshin though"
seems like something personal

I'm p sure that his 5443 was commenting on my 5442. I think he's saying that Shosin's 5439 is bad b/c its Shosin and he has a low opinion of her and has nothing to do with his replace.

[Nero Cain]

[Nero Cain]

I'm not actually confused that just kinda my face when I read a Shoshin post. Like JJH could totes be scum that claimed to vote Varsoon and ride the town cred but his claim that Varsoon scum claimed when he used his ability is acceptable and I'm not sure how this doesn't make sense to you.

[Nero Cain]

So I guess I am confused here.

[Nero Cain]

Well I mean "this guy scum claimed so I voted him" seems pretty clear cut so...

[Nero Cain]

Are you townreading jjh, Nero?

Kinda. I think his play is scummy as fuck but I felt like NSG hard town reading the guy was scum that knew he was town.

Still waiting for you to explain why you are asking me about Fire and Jingle.

[Nero Cain]

What do you feel is the point of that post?

[Nero Cain]

5463

[Nero Cain]

Still waiting for you to explain why you are asking me about Fire and Jingle.

To help me sort you at the same time I sort them.

I mean they were both on my willing to lynch or gladiate. What does that tell you?

[Nero Cain]

How does me telling you my reasons sort any of us?

[Nero Cain]

Mastina is hard town reading Nico, you think she's just wrong?

[Nero Cain]

NSG is scum b/c she had Titus as dead null and then randomly votes Varsoon without explaining why or attempting to get a wagon on him. What does scum do when they are getting scum read? Vote their buddy. This also makes me think that the whole Varsoon thing was a planned bus all along.

Now sheep me Pork.

[Nero Cain]

mass scum exodus.

[Nero Cain]

just a generic question for due dilligence for those who have played with a scum mastina before. is she even remotely capable of coming up with plans like the varsoon charade to make her look super good, and then have a scum creature pretend to have this role and make this claim in the way he did?

itd require sich creative thinking.....but that is pretty much what some people must be tjinking.....

yes. Like sure, I guess OR says that Varsoon throws a hissy fit and thus Mastina is town but a planned bus on Varsoon isn't out of the question for me.

[Nero Cain]

vote: Firebringer

[Nero Cain]

part of me really feels like Creature and Fire wouldn't double down so hard. I mean they just saw their buddy Varsoon get lynched for it. Its real ballsy and WIFOM.

3) Firebringer Maid Cafe (MariaR & Beeboy)
11) Invisibility
13) Whemestar
20) Creature

lol if this is the scum team.

[Nero Cain]

I think you missed a bunch of creature's recent posts?

the whole "Creature is posting so Creature is town" is stale old meta. Do you mean his "guilty" on Mastina?

[Nero Cain]

I think you missed a bunch of creature's recent posts?

the whole "Creature is posting so Creature is town" is stale old meta. Do you mean his "guilty" on Mastina?

No I mean the part that came after the guilty, namely him realizing it wasnt actually a guilty, but more likely a confirmation that Mastina is telling the truth. Strange you'd miss that

ok, this means what exactly?

[Nero Cain]

Why is that JJH?

i second this question.

[Nero Cain]

Pretty much done with this website at this rate.

bye

[Nero Cain]

The only replacement you need is Vizzy right? (assuming Fire stays) lets just lynch him.

[Nero Cain]

I could see the first two as scum, the last two not so much. I feel like the three scenarios here are: Nico is town and Mastina is placating her. Nico and Mastina are scum and this is distancing. Mastina and Nico are both town.

[Nero Cain]

Lynching slots so that the mod does not have to find a replacement does not tend to be a good idea

One of two things will happen, I guess- either there'll be a replacement, or there'll be a modkill. Can mastina just gladiate NR please

But yeah it'd be dumb to use a regular lynch just because the slot is at risk of dying to a modkill, because the net of that is wasting the lynch. This isn't a regular lynch though because we have Mastina, which makes the play even dumber.

This is scum, yes? Like he's either scum or really dumb. Like RC isn't threatening to modkill the slot, he's threatening to call the game. You're basically saying that we should let RC modkill the slot instead of lynch him but that's like not even why he was getting ran up.

This game is a mess.

[Nero Cain]

I feel like jingle is scum

Yeah, maybe.

When are you going to do anything?

[Nero Cain]

YOU. ARE. AVOIDING. THE. POINT.

[Nero Cain]

If RC finds a replacement, the issue is resolved.
If RC fails to find a replacement, then he modkills the slot.

RC never said anything about this. He can't get a replacement so he said he was going to call the game. CALL. THE. GAME. Not modkill th slot. CALL. THE. FUCKING. GAME.

[Nero Cain]

RC is only considering calling the game because of the effect that modkilling slots and the whole replacement shit has on the game. Lynching Vizzy here to prevent this is actually giving in further to that and would arguably compromise the integrity of the game greater than modkilling the slot would.

mafia is a game of attrition. Lynching one inactive slot is not the end of the world.

[Nero Cain]

I don't think it is really. Whittling down the useless slots makes sense as town. And it's not like the slot can't be scum anyways.

[Nero Cain]

If RC is gonna modkill the slot I'd be up for a Wheme gladiate.

@RC

-Are you going to modkill the Vizzy slot?

[Nero Cain]

Mastina won't do shit this game.

[Nero Cain]

I feel like I'm gonna have a really hard time doing anything in this game if I don't see NR gladiated

Even if Nico is scum there are still 3 other scum and you don't necessarily need to know Nico's alignment to hunt the others. You could just assume that Nico is town and the remaining 4 scum are or you could assume that Nico is scum and the other three scum are. Like its not hard but nice to know that your plan is to do nothing but tunnel Nico.

[Nero Cain]

just FTR, who are the other three scum?

[Nero Cain]

opps, sorry RC

[Nero Cain]

HURT: Wheme

[Nero Cain]

Here's a

tinfoil

The reaming scum are

JJ, NSG, Mastina

and

Jingle.

ITT Mastina is just a normal gladiator (no loyal modifier) with the option to no lynch. The no lynches are helping the scum team and both JJ and Jingle are fighting tooth and nail to A.( Keep Mastina alive and B.( keep on no lynching. Also, remember that Mastina was hard town reading Gingie b/c she claims she can "read her" Despite hard town reading Mastina, Jingle plans on lynching her. (planned late bus excuse)

This also means that the Varsoon lynch was also a planned bus to make Mastina and NSG look better

Good rule of thumb for me is if NSG hasn't obv-towned by D4, it's scum.

[Nero Cain]

I'll have her know that I've been scum reading/paranoid of Jingle, JJH and NSG long b4 her but I've also been kinda all over the place. I can't decide which game is worse though; this or Civ.

[Nero Cain]

I'm not even voting invis.

[Nero Cain]

sure but its just kinda catch-all. Like you didn't even know who was on the wagon. You're prob wrong as usual. Though I could see a scum Jingle hopping on.

[Nero Cain]

Also, still failing to take creature into account Nero. If Mastina is scum, its pretty much confirmed that creature is scum along with her

TBF, I had forgotten about that though disloyal hated gladiotor and loyal hated have the same # of A's, True, its possible that a Creature-Mastina scum team could exist, it could also mean Mastina is ______ hated gladiator. What other results has Creature gotten?

[Nero Cain]

RC, its time to prod some useless lurksacks.

[Nero Cain]

Vecna was the one that was all like "don't gladiate me bro!" right?

[Nero Cain]

Also do you really expect Invis to flip scum?

whoever expects this, clearly is unaware of invis meta. has NO ONE else played with invis here? seriously...

-LH

I haven't. Are you saying that this is against his scum meta or that this is within his scum range?

[Nero Cain]

hammer intent

I think her play is scummy as shit but Varsoon and Jingle and JJH kinda make me lean town but ultimately I think I'm just fed up with her

[Nero Cain]

its not like she was at l-1 anyways lol

[Nero Cain]

I mean she is NOW and part of me really wants to hammer. Should I or should I wait?

[Nero Cain]

What am I waiting on though?

[Nero Cain]

you're doing a bang-up job of trying to get her lynched.

[Nero Cain]

Has Mastina done ANY scumhunting today? It seems like all she's done today (and most of the game) is talk about how Nico is town.

[Nero Cain]

But I've been sick for 3 months!

. she cries.

but still going on dates with her girl :/

[Nero Cain]

pro-tip: sometimes scum defend town strongly for town cred.

[Nero Cain]

Why doesn't scum!her just let the deadline run out?

LAMIST.

and its not like its a HUGE blow to the scumteam b/c all they have to do is shoot Fire you know like the other conf town that got shot. Your thinking is very shallow and not critical but it is a weeb so....

[Nero Cain]

yeah but then she just gets more heat on her tomorrow dor not using her role and that accomplishes 0.

[Nero Cain]

TBF, I slightly lean town on Mastina b/c I think JJ and Jingle know she's town. His logic sucks b/c as scum he has to play like an idiot and as town he's already one so...

[Nero Cain]

that's right, I forgot to count the double vote. YAY! no more Mastina in the game.

[Nero Cain]

So we are killing all of Vecna, Jingle, JJH and NSG right?

[Nero Cain]

no no no. Vecna has town read both scum and then tried to pair a Mastina and Creature team despite it being not impossible that Creature gets the 4 A's from something else. This was scum trying to pair his buddy with town.

[Nero Cain]

of course, his excuse will be "I'm just bad" and there will be ppl that are like "just b/c he town read both flipped scum doesn't mean he has to be scum."

I think he's scum but he's someone that needs to be removed for the WIFOM.

[Nero Cain]

jingle

[Nero Cain]

VOTE: jingle

[Nero Cain]

prob all of them except maybe NSG and Nico. I'm worried about the bussing/distancing but I don't really want to lynch either yet.

[Nero Cain]

Also, remember that Vecna didn't want to be gladiated so there's that too.

[Nero Cain]

Vecna/Jingle/JJH is where we should be lynching today.

[Nero Cain]

20

[Nero Cain]

Vecna who have you been targeting at night?

[Nero Cain]

You may claim a guilty on any townie

So I'm assuming that a potential 3p would work just like a claimed guilty on mafia and it wouldn't happen.

[Nero Cain]

Vecna who have you been targeting at night?

Ive already claimed this. If a town stopped the kill during this night, it wasnt me.

Well claim it again, im not gonna dig through your iso to find it.

[Nero Cain]

Why did your view on Mastina change on after n2?

[Nero Cain]

JJ is a claimed deathproof or something.

[Nero Cain]

Why did your view on Mastina change on after n2?

Because my jailkeep on her coincided with the no kill? Followed by a massive tunnel on the slot? I interpreted it as most likely scum trying to desperately get rid of her slot. To which degree this still holds, and how many people were actually bussing the liability-role remains yet to be seen. Not sure whether Mastina would want to go all in on trying to make her teammates look good, because with that role that play would be rather obvious.

Why dd you think it was more likely that you blocked the shot instead of saving Mastina from a NK and then watching scum try to get her lynched? Surely town would more likely to think the latter.

[Nero Cain]

yeah, i misread your post, Vecna.

[Nero Cain]

oh, good call.

Nico and Mastina could certainly be bussing especially with Nico doing nothing but scumreading Mastina the whole game.

[Nero Cain]

NicoRobin and NorthSideGal are not aligned with each other.

oh man, the paranoia of loosing to a scum that fake claimed parity cop and then having someone that was in that game claim parity cop.

[Nero Cain]

So we are killing all of Vecna, Jingle, JJH and NSG right?

[Nero Cain]

Your list includes all of the people who could possibly explain the lack of scumkill N2.

NSG hasn't claimed has she?

[Nero Cain]

ok?

1.) Mastina was scum so she wasn't getting shot
2.) Mastina was very unlikely to do the kill b/c scum usually send a buddy with less heat that's likely to not a draw a track. And even if Vecna did stop the kill that doesn't have anything to do with you, JJH or NSG
3.) No way JJH would have been shot when he was defending scum and there's no way to test his death proof claim unless we like lynch him and he doesn't die.
4.) NSG hasn't claimed yet AFAIK so you getting targeted by a LOUD? babysitter means nothing.

[Nero Cain]

My question is how does that sit with you?

I think you are all scummy as fuck and there's still tons of unclaimed roles so...

[Nero Cain]

Well, I understand your paranoia. But actually, I'm just trying to get a better grasp on the game, and I do a lot better when I can talk through my thinking with someone I trust.

We already had a confirmed town in Steiner. Why didn't you try to talk to him earlier?

[Nero Cain]

Adelbert is awol wut

The point was weeb, that Shoshin is trying to talk with Fire who is conftown. I'm just saying that we had a conftown before Fire and she never reached out to him. Yes, he prob site flaked and should be force replaced but his status doesn't make my question invalid.

[Nero Cain]

I think Shoshin is *kinda* scummy. Like, idk the impression I get is that she thinks she's super good player so I never really understood why she'd lurk and not do things. The whole "Nero is voting me b/c he's scum that wants to lynch me." was so fucking stupid and seemed a little scummy to me and I didn't like how Jingle was saying she was more likely to be 3p than mafia and that appeal where she used the mods words to try to argue that she was mod confirmed town BUT BUT given her role I think she's very unlikely to be in the original 5 scum. Let's hunt the remaining confirmed 3 scum and if the game isn't over we can come back.

[Nero Cain]

I said something back on d2 I think that I thought it was funny that Mastina was Nico's sole target. I could buy a bussing case and its 50/50 between her and NSG so....

[Nero Cain]

on the flipside, I think JJH is pretty scummy and NSG is using his activity as a town tell. So I've been feeling like that's pretty scummy.

I feel like the Varsoon thing was a bus and scum are prob on it, yes?

or we could just like avoid an NSG/Nico vote today and like lynch Jingle or Vecna, yeah?

[Nero Cain]

IDK, I keep looking at this playerlist and it always comes down to the same ppl.

4) Nicorobin/2) Northsidegal
14) Vecna
18) Jingle
21) jjh927

I'm kind of willing to trust Meme here though they could certainly bus or setup chain mislynches. Their role seems complex? Like they double vote/parity cop and win any gladiate attempts? Would Meme claim to be able to win gladiates just to distance from thier team that has a gladiate?

I think I get where Firebringer is going WRT Ari but Idk. I'm also giving folks town cred for the Mastina votes yesterday. I mean yeah it could be a bus, idk. I'm letting night actions sort him.

[Nero Cain]

though lets just pretend that Meme is town AND MSG is townand I trust her on JJH and we are just left with a Nico/Vecna/Jingle team.

[Nero Cain]

That's not a page top.

[Nero Cain]

More and more im starting to think Nero is scum here.

Why?

Like, on very many attempts ive caught Nero to not be reading the game whatsoever

in this game?

[Nero Cain]

oh wow, I had forgot he was in that game.

[Nero Cain]

I was town in Civ....

[Nero Cain]

Why are you scum reading me?

[Nero Cain]

ok, I'm just going to assume this is scum Vecna backing down.

[Nero Cain]

@meme

-do NOT target Wheme tonight.

[Nero Cain]

What information is that?

[Nero Cain]

and I'm avoiding your question for the time being. Deal with it.

[Nero Cain]

or I guess I will give you an answer. These are gut town reads and im POE scum reading not them-Meme

[Nero Cain]

i am neighboring jingle for the rest of the game.
i am confident he is town.

if he dies i will neighbor probably vecna

your top 2 town reads are the guy that passionately defended both scum and the other guy that wanted to use Masyina's role for 5 days and then bus her?

I don't understand how this question helps you sort my alignment. What would my answer tell you about my alignment?

probably nothing. I mean, you want to talk to fire b/c he's conftown. We had a conftowm before Fire that you never tried to work with. So I kinda agree with Fire in that in looks like you are buddying him but I'm not going to lynch you until we lynch the other 3 scum and the game is still going on.

Why do you think I'm scum?

[Nero Cain]

Varsoon was Titus, yes? b/c Vecna was defending Titus.

[Nero Cain]

Why not?

[Nero Cain]

Whats the rest?

[Nero Cain]

Wasn't it Jingle that brought up that there was a redirector?

[Nero Cain]

Oh yeah, forgot this in the roles thing. IF NR is town, we also have a redirector/busdriver type role that moved her from jjh to me on N3.

or did Nico say something b4 this?

[Nero Cain]

Well, I mean you're scum reading me so you don't seem all that great at meta. idk. I think its plenty possible that he hard defends Mastina.

[Nero Cain]

I mean sure. Like its equally plausible that he's wrong town and scum that hard defended his buddy. You could argue he's null. At some point i need to re iso him b/c I can't remember anything he's done besides defend Mastina.

[Nero Cain]

Nero's just probably scum, NSG. So don't worry too much about convincing him. The guy thinks I'm scum lol...

Well, we know you can't read very well. You aren't ery townie-get over yourself.

[Nero Cain]

would u agree u are likely to die within a few days anyways given ur role?

No scum would shoot a claimed BG and she's not using her role.

[Nero Cain]

But Nero goes a step further and starts stoking Fire's paranoia with questions that Nero himself admits don't have any scumhunting direction or intent... he's just trying to make Fire more paranoid of me, which is a really scummy thing to do because that's how scum get town to mislynch townies...

I mean, I asked you to try to understand your motivations. Just b/c I'm being open and honest that your answer would probably not change anything for me doesn't mean my question was directionless. You basicly deflected.

Nero's reads suck throughout the game

I've spent a fair time pushing scum. You I don't think have pushed scum at all this game.

Also, Nero was calling me scummy before I claimed bodyguard... and once scum start pushing someone as scum, they sometimes struggle to change how they approach a player in a fluid and natural way.

you do realize that I'm not even pushing your lynch unless the game isn't over after we lynch the other 3 confirmed scum.

[Nero Cain]

this game started with 5 scum. We've lynched 2. This means there are 3 left.

[Nero Cain]

I've spent a fair time pushing scum

hey buddy u also pushed me and i haven't forgiven u for it yet

i mean, im just an ego and felt like the maria/beeboy hydra was scummy and I had a hard time getting that out of my head. Though tbf, I did say something yesterday along the lines of "I doubt that scum doubles down after Varsoon flipped"

[Nero Cain]

He pushed my strongest townreads early in the game (Vax, and Chick)

its easy to claim that confirmed town are townie. I also didn't push Chick so it feels like you are just throwing things against the wall to try and see what sticks.

[Nero Cain]

And you are still very much ignoring the fact that I'm not even pushing you right now.

[Nero Cain]

i don't think he has been trying to convince anyone he is town

So is Shosin scum for trying to convince us that she's mod confirmed tow?

[Nero Cain]

Because that scum game you had in Death note seemed like an exact carbon copy of how you always play as town.

I wasn't team scum.

[Nero Cain]

So far all JJ has done is talk about how Mastina is town, naked voted Sky and OMGUS voted Gingie/Jingle.

Kuroi had already pointed this out but

Not convinced it's actually towny looking content

what content is "not towny" looking? Let's ignore the fake dayvig, like if ppl want to town read me for that fine and if you don't then that's ok. I mean, I could argue "why in the world do you think a fake daykill is AI." but the fake daykill isn't the sum total of my content. So talk to me about it.

Nah I don't think you're scum; I just phrased "I don't know what's going on there" in a more loaded way in hope that people would jump in on the discussion

Is a hedge.

Wheme, you were in GSGDM. Do you think this vizzy looks the same because I really don't


I do think you popping up with an unorthodox scumread looks pretty bad for you though

This seems like his only scumhunting post so far.

As of 739 he's calling all of Vax, Wheme and Skygazer scum.

Now he is naked voting Lady Angel.

There was a bunch of stuff about him trying to figure out Vecna's role or somthing weird like that.

He then hops on the Pork wagon.

Now he's voting Vecna b/c he believes its a fake post restriction.

Now he's voting Kuroi apparently just so Mastina uses her ability on him.

I mean holy shit this guy as 4 more pages to go but so far all I'm seeing is random vote hopping, he doesn't really seem to commit to his scum reads and not alot of scum hunting.

[Nero Cain]

VOTE: unvote

[Nero Cain]

Had also wanted to say that his kinda saving grace is that he did vote Titus near EOD. Though I guess the other way you could look at it is he voted her when she was in no danger and thus it was distancing *shrugz*

[Nero Cain]

As of 2021 he's random voting Gamma.

while I can see the argument for Nos scum I also can't accept it at all

hedges on Nos a bit here. This would be really important if Ari flips scum.

Now he's sheeping me on R&L.

Another naked vote on Titus.

Random vote on Wheme.

A kinda random vote on Gin. Like his argument was that Gin is scum that doesn't kill Mastina b/c Mastina town reads him. I said it was a leap.

He's back to voting Wheme b/c he believes Wheme is playing like he did as 3p.

Now he's voting Chick b/c it might "gain traction"

So begins the JJ/Nico sparring match.

The rest of this page (and prob the next 3) are mainly about him going apeshit on Nico. I guess its minorly important to mention that there was a no kill and in his mind that meant Nico's team targeted him.

[Nero Cain]

Jingle, what were your targets?

[Nero Cain]

I have 2 A's. One before the comma wich I guess is my role and 1 the comma which I guess is flavor.

[Nero Cain]

or maybe 2 A's in flavor and 2 in my role. I'm not really sure.

[Nero Cain]

He's actully sparring with Jingle alot. Scum theatre?

As of 3474 he's backing down on Jingle.

A minorly important event has happened: he's town reading NSG b/c he felt like IC was town.

though at the end of page 3 it seems like his opinion on Mastina is changing just a little bit though I guess you could always argue that he's reading the room and she's the Mastina hate growing and that maintianing his stance that she's town is suicide. But then he goes back to just town reading her.

The rest of his ISO is mainly pushing Nico with some small tunnels on Jingle and Ari.

I guess my feelings are that it's kinda null that he town read Mastina so hard. Like yeah, its possible he's just wrong town but its certainly possible that he defends her so hard. I'm somewhat tempted to town read him based on voting Titus and sparring with Jingle (who I also feel is scummy). Although I'm not seeing this great play and in depth thinking that NSG and Vecna are claiming. I mean, he asks a few people about their role but that seems more like rolefishing than "setup spec". I'll hold for the incoming "scum wouldn't blatantly fish so hard" argument. He was also town reading Varsoon a bit up until he used his role. I think its totally possible that the Varsoon wagon was a bus to make Mastina look better.
.

[Nero Cain]

If you're voting at that time then it's your own fault

Doesn't freezing votes make us no lynch?

[Nero Cain]

My biggest worry about JJH is not that he defended Mastina so much but his early game was just directionless vote hopping. I'd expect town to be a little more tunnely (like he is now).

[Nero Cain]

lady. What do you think of my JJ iso analysis?

[Nero Cain]

Just proving I can do it

Whats rally the point?

I don't really buy into the random vote hopping bit fully since a lot of it took place between day 1 and early day 2

I mean, I thought about that but in a way that seems like a cop out to me. I don't think its impossible that scum sits there with a series of planned lynches. Maybe I take a look at some JJ games later and see if this wagon hopping thing is a common occurrence.

[Nero Cain]

Also, someone asked what FB is gonna give me tonight. I think that leaving what the action is hidden prevents RB and similar roles from knowing whether I should be targeted or not

Wouldn't the best use of his role be to give it to the other confirmed town slot and we find a replace in for it?

[Nero Cain]

Vecna- Probably responsible for the missing kill N2. Possibly responsible for the missing kill tonight. Probably town.

I very much disagree with this. 1. No way scum shot at Mastina b/c she was scum 2. I highly doubt Mastina would be the one that carries out the kills b/c her getting tracked/watch is a death sentence and mafia needed those no lynches she was giving ya'll

[Nero Cain]

Well, I asked TW yesterday, gonna ask a few others today.

Keep in mind, he (adalbert's slot) apparently won't die so I feel like giving it there instead of giving it to a plater we might lynch and is not confirmed is a better use, barring we find a replacement.

[Nero Cain]

I guess this delves into game theory but when towns no lynch is means there is a 0% chance of lynching mafia. All mafia has to do is kill that confirmed town slot and nothing about the gamestate changes. Feels pretty icky to me that you are using hindsight to justify why its good.

Also, I'm a bit surprised that you choose to cherry-pick this to argue about and not my doubts on Vecna.

[Nero Cain]

This also seemed a little odd. Firstly using the word probable when we know there are 3 scum left. And starting with the number 2 (as if you expect one of your town reads to flip scum.)

That leaves a

probable 2-5

scum in the following:

Shoshin- Not on the lynch table without 3 more scumflips.
The Meme Men
Nero Cain
Gamma Emerald
Aristophanes
Lady Angel
Whemestar

Gamma is the null line in the last group.

[Nero Cain]

do we know that there are three scum left?

Sometimes I wonder if you and shoshin not understanding that there are 3 scum left is just fake derp and not real derp.

[Nero Cain]

1) The setup consists of 5 scum, 16 town, and 2 players who can be town, mafia, or third party.

before Shoshin replaced in it was 1 player that could be town, mafia or third party.

[Nero Cain]

and 2-5=3. I suck at math and I can even figure that out!

[Nero Cain]

or 5-2 rather

[Nero Cain]

the more arrogantly an assertion is pushed, the better it feels to disprove it

ummm ok?

[Nero Cain]

The fact that mastina making the kill makes perfect sense to me

We'll just have to agree to disagree b/c Mastina doesn't make the most sense to me. I mean certainly yeah mastina could carry out the kill b/c she and her team decided to make her expendable but I think conventional wisdom suggests that a mafia team will send one with much less heat on them.

[Nero Cain]

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=75812

Was town here and he seemed pretty tunnely. like he started out with 3 scumreads and stuck with them until he voted another scum in late game. He was a town tracker.

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=76042

Was scum here and didn't do much. Kinda randomly voted 2 guys. Similarish to here.

I'd also like to note that Jingle was in that game and scum.

Subject: Mini Theme 2007: Police Academy 1 - Game Over

The main thing was just blocking the two mislynches on day two

That's what really swung the game I think

Jingle’s scum team basically abaonded him in thread.

But he also chose to use the strategy of giving town correct mechanical advice

in lieu of letting town derp its way into stuff like repeating peeks, or in lieu of more actively powerwolfing, and got the double whammy of being scum read for the wrong reasons and not actually being able to push the game state in a proscum direction.
It all very well might have worked out without ank swinging the day 2 lynch... but there was little margin for error here.
Scum also got hosed by the rand with town randing sane cop and randoms giving “correct” peeks instead of throwing a lot of noise into the works.

Isn't he doing the same thing here?

viewtopic.php?f=51&t=76359

i know that NSG already posted this but he's doing that same vote hop thing.

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=72405
Town here. Seems to be going after the same guys he scumread earlier.

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=72485
Tunnels bomb right out of the gate and then Vedith until she dies. I guess that later on he does get kinda vote hoppy.

All in all I feel like his s1 play was more like his scum play instead of his town play but you guys can read for yourselves or think w/e.

[Nero Cain]

Isn't he doing the same thing here?

Also, yes. I have argued correct play. If your argument is that I would only do that as scum, I'm frankly baffled.

My argument is that you've argued correct play as scum before so why is it dumb to think you'd do the same thing here?

[Nero Cain]

Vecna, who are you town reading?

[Nero Cain]

ask a friend to replace in.

[Nero Cain]

I'm going to ignore Vecna's d1 b/c its pretty much meaningless nonsense though I will say that it's not impossible that he fake claims an PR or is even scum with a PR.

There's not a whole lot that pings me about Vecna. The defense of Titus is the first that comes to mind but him being wrong town is just as possible (and kinda what I expect ) I guess the next thing is how he treats Gamma. Like he sort of freaks out when Fire was going to give Wheme a gun to shoot Gamma and then he starts to argue a Fire/Gamma team.

Jingle v. Vecna gave me a SvS feeling.

Gladiating me is a terrible idea

. Ill explain more about this later if its still required, but I doubt itll come to that.

scum that knows the gladiate on him fails?

Also, still failing to take creature into account Nero. If Mastina is scum, its pretty much confirmed that creature is scum along with her

thought it was weird he dropped this.

[Nero Cain]

Or maybe......hidden town jailkeeper that does not want to give scum incentive to kill him?

Did you say that and d2 or d3? You gotta understand though, in a game where scum are outted during a gladiate saying "oh nope, don't gladiate me" is going to be mildly suspicious. Your d1 PR/3x Jailkeeper doesn't make you confirmed town or anything.

while his role will have to die regardless for scum to have any shot at this game, youre really just trying to make the datapoints fit your narrative.

you are claiming that you are out of shots. You are basically a glorified VT. Why would scum ever shoot you?

[Nero Cain]

while his role will have to die regardless for scum to have any shot at this game

Wait, is this about Fire? ok yeah but I don't understand that as a response to "I guess the next thing is how he treats Gamma. Like he sort of freaks out when Fire was going to give Wheme a gun to shoot Gamma and then he starts to argue a Fire/Gamma team. " Walk me through it.

[Nero Cain]

part of me feels like a scumWheme doesn't go to bat for their dying buddy or maybe that's the whole point, to make Wheme and Nico not look like scum together.

[Nero Cain]

NSG's probably town, so it's likely Nico?

Well NSG has to be scum if Nico is town unless you think Meme is scum and just why? Like you are saying that RC makes a role that powers scum and I just don't think that's a thing. I could see Nico hyper bussing Mastin and mainly ignoring the rest of the game.

[Nero Cain]

Am I the only one that's minorly suspicious that JJH's death proof is similar to Profi's role? Do you think that RC gives us two of those? Or is that too simplistic? Just like Chick and Jingle are both claimed vendors.

[Nero Cain]

You constantly kept at a rather safe distance from the whole Mastina thing. You wanted her lynched, without -really- sticking your neck out for it, and the follow-up lines up quite nicely with how id imagine a scumteam to formulate a plan here.

Was our treatment all that different? I mean true, I'd look at her play and go "man she's scummy" and then I guess I'd kinda psych myself out into thinking she was a town role and let's be honest I was a little sympathetic if she was actually sick. You pretty much hard town read her b/c you believed you blocked scums kill to wanting her lynched and then were all like "oh I'm just annoyed with her, she's town though"

[Nero Cain]

What if all the duplicate roles are red herrings? Though a Nico scumflip would mean thats untrue.

[Nero Cain]

I care about behaviors.

Well, you don't seem to really go in depth about why you are reading the way you do or how you feel about things. It seems like you've mostly thrown a hissy fit when I was scumreading you and thrown out some random unexplained reads. I mean there could be more but that's really what I remember.

Why are you trying to outguess what RC would do in his games? He likes to do wacky things, in case you haven't realized yet.

he also explicitly stated he would not have given a role like Mastina's to town. So the whole "RC does crazy things" feels like an excuse to keep paranoia alive.

So if any of yall dispute please speak up and I’ll go form my initial opinions

you should just ISO the living-Fire.

Pretty bad slot to give a gun to.

he (fire) was giving the gun to Wheme to SHOOT Gamma.

[Nero Cain]

Like, there are at least 2 scum here. I've removed Nico and NSG b/c one is scum and the other is town so they don't matter. I've also removed meme b/c I have a hard time seeing that as scum. ISO them and then tell us who to lynch after we resolve the day.

6) Gamma Emerald
12) Porkens
13) Whemestar
14) Vecna
15) Lady Angel
18) Jingle
20) Creature
21) jjh927
22) Aristophanes

[Nero Cain]

An even worse slot to give a gun to

but why would you care if Wheme was going to shoot someone you were scumreading?

Ok walk me through this?

Are you asking me or Vecna?

[Nero Cain]

Keep Gamma
Keep Porkens
Keep Wheme
Would remove Vecna
Would remove Lady Angel (if I can solve that result problem)
Would remove Jingle (just because nihilism tbh)
Would remove myself obviously
Keep jjh927
Keep Aristophanes

is "keep" the people you think could be scum and "would remove" town reads?

Assuming yes, Porkens/Wheme/JJH and Ari is where you think the tow not Nico/NSG scum are at?

I'm telling you that my reads are based on behaviors, not what people claim or the investigative results they claim to have.

ok but I'm saying that you haven't really explained these behaviors.

This feels like a very unfair characterization of my play so far. Can someone else weigh in on this? I need an outsider's view, please.

You start out the game mostly defending yourself b/c there were some players that felt your late entrence in the game was scummy or something. I then vote you for ~reasons~ and you go batshit crazy.

Hard scum reads Jingle. Hard scum reads Creature. Said you town read Jingle b/c he was "leading". Back to null on Jingle. Votes NSG. Town reads NSG. Town reading Jingle again and JJ is town. Jingle is your weakest town read. Ari is a town read. Drops the town read on JJH b/c you think his voting for Varsson made no sense.

I agree on lynching Fire.

scumreading Fire or at least hedging on his wagon.

I feel like jingle is scum

Yeah, maybe.

I guess null reading Jingle.

I'm a protective role, actually. A bodyguard.

claimed her for ???? reason.

I've got you, Adelbert, Pork, Creature, NSG, Gamma, Jjh, Vecna, Meme, and Lady Angel as town.

Looking at this, I'd say maybe one of NSG, Invis, JJH, Nero, Vecna, Jingle, and Lady Angel is scum, with distant possibility that there's two scum in this group.

Most of the scum is in the group of

Creature

, Nico,

Gamma

, Aristophanes, Wheme,

Shiro, or Sora

.

You had just got done calling the green colored slot town but now they aren't....

Me, you, Fire, Creature, NSG, JJH, Pork, and Vecna are town.

Nico & Wheme are scum.

And then there's a bunch of nullish among Lady Angel, Meme, Aristophanes, Gamma, Jingle, and Nero. I'd say best place to start would be sorting these players to figure out the last scum.

So I feel that my saying you have alot of unexplained and unexplained read changes is fairly accurate. And the one's you have explained (JJ, NSG, Pork) it seems like its just "this is thier town game."

I'd like to hear words about Creature, why LA is no longer a town read, Vecna, and why Gamma is no longer a town read.

[Nero Cain]

You're positive Mastina is town? Why?

Can you also explain why Mastina is town, jjh?

I'm also a little worried that these are the things scum say we they know their scumbuddy is getting misread.

Are you town, Invis? If you're replacing out, at least do us one last favor and tell us your partners if you're scum?

Also thought this was p scummy.

[Nero Cain]

You.

What am I walking you through? All I know is Vecna was scum reading you and then when Fire was going to give Wheme a gun Vecna kinda freaked out. And I don't have a clue what you are doing.

[Nero Cain]

She'd gladiate and we'd get 48 hours to lynch or no lynch. The democratic/leash system was something her and maybe Jingle wanted to do. Alot of ppl were fed up with her waiting WEEKS to use her role. She's also flipped scum so...

[Nero Cain]

yes

[Nero Cain]

I'd like to hear from Profi and im still kinda doing things. Why the rush the end day?

[Nero Cain]

Is there some reason you think I can't weigh behaviors over roles unless I explain every single piece of behavioral analysis that I engage in?

no but sharing your thoughts with the class seems like a more pro-town thing than sitting there with a bunch of unexplained reads. There's certianly scum motivation in NOT explaining a read so I'm not sure why you are up in arms over me pointing out that you have alot of unexplained reads and read changes.

since large numbers of townies don't explain reads and many don't even explain reads when directly asked to explain.

this is a true statement and probably why there is so much distrust and toxicity in games. I don't see any pro-towns reasons for NOT explaining your reads and switches and it seems just like meta play. I think if everyone were more open and honest this site would maybe not suck as much. /end rant

Like, this idea that I haven't been explaining anything is actually just wrong.

that's not what I said though.

and like

Yes, that's true.

So you've admitted to having a bunch of unexplained reads. Of course, you'll say "I'm town ad nasuem but I don't think there's anything wrong with me wanting explanations and/or finding unexplained shit scummy.

Also, in terms of Invis, keep in mind that I had just finished playing a game with Invis where he, as town who knew the player at L-1 was town because he was INFORMED of that fact at the start of the game, quick hammered that townie. Now, think about that. If Invis is willing to turn on his town team like that, then why wouldn't I try getting him to turn on his scumteam?

This is weak and just plain silly.

[Nero Cain]

but you guys, wasn't it actually Jingle that was leading Nico and she refused to gladiate BOTH Jingle and Nico?

[Nero Cain]

I think me and Meme were the ones that wanted Mastina to speed shit up, I don't remember who else.

[Nero Cain]

to make you sweat.

[Nero Cain]

Jingle, who have you sent pizza too?

[Nero Cain]

Lady have you at all used any of your actions?

[Nero Cain]

You do know that Proffi has a role that doesn't die right?

[Nero Cain]

Like, why did you even claim in the first place?

[Nero Cain]

Why is Nero rolefishing

Asking why she claimed for F all reason isn't rolefishing, why is it?

[Nero Cain]

You do know that Proffi has a role that doesn't die right?

Really? I haven't looked at the claims much. What's his role?

Shouldn't you try to be more informed about the setup? You should always be sitting on Fire.

Why did you claim?

[Nero Cain]

Shit got real and Gamma and Shoshin ran away.

[Nero Cain]

Well, I know Gamma is on.

[Nero Cain]

And I actually asked this like an hour ago.

Like, why did you even claim in the first place?

She did reply a few mintues after I asked but avoided that question.

You do know that Proffi has a role that doesn't die right?

Really? I haven't looked at the claims much. What's his role?

[Nero Cain]

ok but how am I rolefishing her when she's already claimed?

[Nero Cain]

yes

[Nero Cain]

does it matter? i'm not going to slog through ISO's so I can find you a quote.

[Nero Cain]

IMM we are hunting 3 scum since we knew the game started with atleast 5.

[Nero Cain]

Or like, on Meme?

IDK, it begs the question of who is more important. A conftown or a parity cop. She's a claimed BG so like its a one or 2 two day lease at best.

[Nero Cain]

i guess yeah. you take the investigation role here.

[Nero Cain]

Why did you claim, Shoshin?

[Nero Cain]

I know we'll be here tomorrow but I've just been waiting to hear from you. Drop me some lines to tide me over till tomorrow.

[Nero Cain]

meme

-if you get on b4thread lock y are you leaning town on Wheme?

[Nero Cain]

I mean just ISO ppl over night. I was also doing some vote counts on d1, i think. dunno if that helps or not. Sorry I roped you into this mess.

[Nero Cain]

I do wish RC would update the OP though

[Nero Cain]

If you have a result on me, claim it so we can confirm you actually have that role.

Did you investigate me creature?

Vecna getting all defensive he kinda makes me just want to go ahead and vote him.

[Nero Cain]

tell me more

[Nero Cain]

And I would like to know why neither our babysitter or our claimed bodyguard were protecting Fire

either horrible communication or there's scum in there. Kinda leaning Gamma.

[Nero Cain]

dude, you really should have been a Fire last night. What's your role name?

[Nero Cain]

I mean, Fire's role seems like it would have been a passive role (haven't read his role flip) Putting a BG on just gets her killed and a babysitter gets them both killed (assuming that both the BG claims and babysitter are real) I think the use of your role was kinda shitty but at least you die soon unless it just ATe in which case I'm going to want to lynch you eventually.

So why vote Jingle?

[Nero Cain]

I have to check but I thought that Fire gave his neighbor (in this case Jingle) the abilities

[Nero Cain]

there's at least 1 scum left with a maximum of 3.