A Story Revisited (Anything uPick): Day 6

[jjh927]

What shit do you want me to respond to now

[jjh927]

But it is shit- all of it.


I'm only gonna reevaluate if I'm proven wrong because I agree, I am very confident I am right here. Barring a valid reason to reevaluate, I will not.

Your second quote looks like more from scum!you

Mastina is town and I'm not going to lynch her. Your reasoning here seems to be "hurrdurr paranoia" and I am a man of logic

I don't expect to be shown to be wrong, but I accept that it is a possibility of what will occur if mastina gladiates you. Thank you for flagging this post again, however, as I seem to have missed that you think her gladiating you would confirm her as scum. How?

[jjh927]

But it is shit- all of it.


I'm only gonna reevaluate if I'm proven wrong because I agree, I am very confident I am right here. Barring a valid reason to reevaluate, I will not.

Your second quote looks like more from scum!you

Mastina is town and I'm not going to lynch her. Your reasoning here seems to be "hurrdurr paranoia" and I am a man of logic

I don't expect to be shown to be wrong, but I accept that it is a possibility of what will occur if mastina gladiates you. Thank you for flagging this post again, however, as I seem to have missed that you think her gladiating you would confirm her as scum. How?

And I will ask again: how exactly will you be 'proven wrong'? Because your method - the gladiate - won't work the way you'd want it to.

Yeah it would

Either she fails and I am proven right or she succeeds and I am proven wrong. It's a binary.

But it is shit- all of it.


I'm only gonna reevaluate if I'm proven wrong because I agree, I am very confident I am right here. Barring a valid reason to reevaluate, I will not.

Your second quote looks like more from scum!you

Mastina is town and I'm not going to lynch her. Your reasoning here seems to be "hurrdurr paranoia" and I am a man of logic

I don't expect to be shown to be wrong, but I accept that it is a possibility of what will occur if mastina gladiates you. Thank you for flagging this post again, however, as I seem to have missed that you think her gladiating you would confirm her as scum. How?

And thanks for proving you didn't read at all. I didn't say her gladiating me would confirm her as scum, I said that her REFUSING to do so - which will happen - would.

no u

And for the record, she won't gladiate me either, because that would prove she is scum beyond a doubt.

[jjh927]

Do note that you have argued that she would be scum for gladiating you and also that she would be scum for refusing to gladiate you

[jjh927]

Do note that you have argued that she would be scum for gladiating you and also that she would be scum for refusing to gladiate you

No, I only argued that she would be scum for refusing to gladiate me.

Come think of it, you only included two options: she either succeeds or fails.

But there is a third possibility: she doesn't gladiate me at all. What happens with your analysis if this option were to occur?

I literally quoted a post where you said she would be confirmed as scum if she gladiated you. No gaslighting please.

Option 3 is where we are now- where I will keep going from until we reach either option 1 or 2.

[jjh927]

Do note that you have argued that she would be scum for gladiating you and also that she would be scum for refusing to gladiate you

No, I only argued that she would be scum for refusing to gladiate me.

Come think of it, you only included two options: she either succeeds or fails.

But there is a third possibility: she doesn't gladiate me at all. What happens with your analysis if this option were to occur?

I literally quoted a post where you said she would be confirmed as scum if she gladiated you. No gaslighting please.

Option 3 is where we are now- where I will keep going from until we reach either option 1 or 2.

[jjh927]

Because for someone who claims to know everything, you are way too quick to discard some possibilities if they don't fit in with your views.

I propose this: ignore my existence for a day or two (irl) and focus on finding my partners, which should be easy, given how clever you deem yourself to be and how adamant you are that I am scum. If you can find them and if I am unable to counter your arguments on a decent level, then you can lynch me. I'll even sheep you. How about that, jjh? If you are that sure of yourself, then you will seize this opportunity for a free lynch on me.

I agree I'm quick to discard possibilities but I tend to have good reasoning and accuracy for it. For the more important things relying on lots of assumptions I do recognise that they were reasoned on assumptions and so could well be wrong, however an individual such assumption is often negligible.

Your alignment being confirmed one way or the other would help greatly in me finding scum regardless of what you actually turn out to be. I do not intend to let you hang about. If I ignore you, you will still be there at the endgane whether or not you are scum, because scum would never nightkill you. If you get confscummed you will be lynched. If you get conftowned you will actually be useful as a rolecop, and furthermore might not make it to the endgame because scum need to kill off conftowns. You are not offering a "free lynch" on yourself. This is bartering. I don't make deals with mafia

[jjh927]

I should really stop because you're saying the same misrepresentative bullshit in response to the answers to that bullshit

[jjh927]

VOTE: No Lynch

[jjh927]

You aren't waiting on a claim, however lynching Mastina is still being a dumbass

[jjh927]

I'm holding out for someone to become suddenly sane but you're all kinda bloodlusted here

[jjh927]

Actually maybe tomorrow I'll just express my rage through jjba reaction images and memes and a NicoRobin vote

[jjh927]

EVERYONE IS A POSSIBLE SCUM

[jjh927]

Reads are all there fucking is and I TR Mastina for a ton of reasons

I am confident Mastina is town and as such lynching other people is how we win the game

[jjh927]

EVERYONE IS A POSSIBLE SCUM

So you admit that you could be scum as well, eh?

From perspectives other than mine, yes

But you're just being obtuse and I'm getting towards my limit here; I wasn't aware I had a limit these days

[jjh927]

I'm not stopping him because I don't have any way of doing so

[jjh927]

It's just maddening

Not lynching Mastina is still the optimal play even if she's being trash with using her role

[jjh927]

The day will end in (expired on 2018-11-24 19:00:00).

Wait fuck.
I thought it was 3, 5 days from now.

Uhhh.

NEVERMIND THEN.

I have a guilty on Firebringer.

Why does scum!her do this

[jjh927]

Why doesn't scum!her just let the deadline run out?

[jjh927]

If she flips scum I will break

[jjh927]

If Mastina is town I want her to win and I think she's town

[jjh927]

Do you have something against her

[jjh927]

Sure but you wouldn't be lynching her now because deadline would have passed

[jjh927]

Is there any chance of lynching NR tomorrow or am I going to go insane

[jjh927]

Nah


I'm out for the day


We've actually already had the hammer

[jjh927]

VOTE: mastina

! vote

VOTE: mastina

This time, I will get her lynched whether you agree with me or not.

2 votes

VOTE: mastina

3 votes

VOTE: Mastina

4 votes

Fantastic!

VOTE: mastina

5 votes

VOTE: Mastina

6 votes

Huh who is Sora?

We are

VOTE: Mastina - Shiro and Sora

-rh

8 votes (that's a double)

VOTE: mastina

9 votes

With 18 alive it's 10 to lynch

Roses are red
Mastina is hated
And now she is dead
and I am frustrated

[jjh927]

lmao that exclamation mark is clearly a capital 1

[jjh927]

I'll be deeply conflicted if she is scum

[jjh927]

Guess it depends exactly on the role PM she flips with

[jjh927]

Okay so obviously after Mastina flipped scum I had to do some rethinking but it's just perspective, really.

There's still a part of me that keeping Mastina alive and leashing her was still optimal play, even if she was dragging her feet about using her ability. Her trueclaiming made no sense for scum because it was so pro-town to claim it. I feel like scum hardbussed Mastina there, considering that optimal scumplay would be to bus Mastina's role into the ground. Which takes me back to NicoRobin, although I still don't understand why she failed the rolecop. There's been too much dodgy shit regarding her rolecop and I don't think it adds up at all. NicoRobin is still scum.


Also I would suggest people unvote so I can freeze this vote in place to prove I can do it:

VOTE: NicoRobin

[jjh927]

I didn't do anything last night because what's the point?

Oh, I was roleblocked yesterday. I was not allowed to talk about the roleblock yesterday and could only say that I didn't submit my action because town was going to lose or nihilism or something along those lines.

Additionally, there is no danger of me being force replaced at this point, it's been resolved.

[jjh927]

I think I can understand your role better than you can because that's my whole thing and you admitted you misunderstood it multiple times

[jjh927]

I mean my mistake was assuming she was town because her scumplay was so suboptimal it was insane


I was correct on her telling the truth about her role

[jjh927]

Btw I didn't order a pizza but I wasn't gonna say no

[jjh927]

Something was missing though

[jjh927]

Yo guys so I can actually get it out of the way

ZA WARUDO in (expired on 2018-12-01 23:00:00)

[jjh927]

Further, jjh using his role early is EVEN MORE IMPORTANT if he is scum, because letting him use it whenever he wants increases the chance he can use it in a proscum fashion.

Never said it was 1-shot btw

[jjh927]

I mean my mistake was assuming she was town because her scumplay was so suboptimal it was insane


I was correct on her telling the truth about her role

No, you weren't. You kept saying she is loyal, when she was in fact, disloyal.

That is a meaningless difference with regards to functionality, and one that I was aware of. Furthermore, I believe I said she was either loyal or disloyal, BECAUSE it's a meaningless difference with regards to functionality, and can reference a couple of times for you. I recall you not even being certain she was even a gladiator

Spoiler:

Thanks for the explanation, that's helpful. Can you also explain why Mastina is town, jjh?

A. Role

She is objectively a gladiator. She claimed loyal with a flavour that makes sense (this may be about to go down the drain- if Creature's guilty makes sense then I'll look into more shit)
Now, if she is indeed loyal, she must be town.
If she is disloyal scum, then fullclaiming was bad play on her part because we can still leash her for town's benefit (and furthermore should, so I don't really care too much about this scenario, but I don't think it's likely)
So then there's the scenario where she's neither loyal nor disloyal, and I don't think anyone who doesn't have one of those modifiers claims it. It's fuckin weird as a fakeclaim and holes appear in it when you start introducing flavour too. This and the lack of holes helps, but I also don't think this is the kind of lie Mastina would tell on day 1 due to running the risk of being found out mechanically.



B. Scum want to lynch her

Varsoon self-destructed trying to get her lynched. I am confident that not all of his frustration was faked, rather frustration seems most real when there is something real within it- and in this case, it was Varsoon's frustration at how powerful her role was for town. I can find a quote directly addressing this if you like.

Furthermore, NicoRobin, who I FIRMLY believe is scum for a whole variety of reasons, was going in very hard on wanting her lynched. I am also of the belief that her "no result" while rolecopping her is total bullshit and she just wanted to avoid giving an inno result on Mastina. The whole thing around how NicoRobin has used her role screams scum that was trying to get Mastina lynched, honestly. I also don't believe she got redirected but that's w/e to this.

In my world, Mastina just got confirmed to be either loyal or disloyal and as such optimal play is to leash her until she dies

In my world, Mastina just got confirmed to be either loyal or disloyal and as such optimal play is to leash her until she dies

[jjh927]

Who were mastina gladiates?

She did it on FB, Kuroi/aldeb (isn't aldeb due for prod??), and 2 other people

-LH

Kuroi day 1, Chickadee day 2, nobody day 3 because Varsoon did his thing, and Firebringer day 4

[jjh927]

Can we just recap NR's use of her role?

N1: Porkens - who refused to give over whatever the hell it is she actually checks
N2: mastina - who agreed, but NR got no result
N3: Supposedly attempted to target me but instead targeted Jingle
N4: Targeted nobody


And the evolution of her claim?
What we know it does:

I was told, "Nico is demanding your role; you have 48 hours to comply, or she becomes a triple voter for you."

I am Nico Robin, conditional triple voter conditional tracker/watcher.

Each night I target a player and they have 48 hours to give me who they visited. If they don't, I gain a triple vote against them. I targeted Porkens N1 and mastina N2. My action on Porkens failed and I got no result on mastina.

She then retracts the watcher aspect of her claim after people start talking about what would happen if Mastina got jailkept and Vecna inevitably votes her because from his perspective, her claiming watcher is a scumclaim.

@Vecna I looked at my role PM again, and it seems that I am not a Watcher after all, but a Role Cop.

Guess this is what happens when I don't read my own role PM thoroughly..... :O

At this point, I deserve to be lynched for sheer stupidity......

And then we have

Then she lied to me, because the way my role is written, I am rolecop in flavor only, while my actual role is tracker.

When RC calls that a flavourcop

[jjh927]

The mechanics make no fucking sense

She claims to have got a no result as opposed to a failure on Mastina but without having got anything other than a tracker result. She's jumped through claims it would make no sense to think without reading. Her actions do not make mechanical sense. She has lied. Multiple times.





Oh also I seem to have lost some bits of that recap lemme add em in

[jjh927]

Here's the ebwop

Can we just recap NR's use of her role?

N1: Porkens - who refused to give over whatever the hell it is she actually checks
N2: mastina - who agreed, but NR got no result
N3: Supposedly attempted to target me but instead targeted Jingle
N4: Targeted nobody


And the evolution of her claim?
What we know it does:

I was told, "Nico is demanding your role; you have 48 hours to comply, or she becomes a triple voter for you."

So she opened with this:

Well, I am not only a triple voter, I am also a rolecop. That's what Porkens wanted me to say, and now I have.

Which is fair enough I guess. It lined up with the demand we know of the role. But then she decides she misread it when trying to think of a way to not straight up guilty Mastina for some reason while still wanting to be able to bus her.

I am Nico Robin, conditional triple voter conditional tracker/watcher.

Each night I target a player and they have 48 hours to give me who they visited. If they don't, I gain a triple vote against them. I targeted Porkens N1 and mastina N2. My action on Porkens failed and I got no result on mastina.

She then retracts the watcher aspect of her claim after people start talking about what would happen if Mastina got jailkept and Vecna inevitably votes her because from his perspective, her claiming watcher is a scumclaim.

@Vecna I looked at my role PM again, and it seems that I am not a Watcher after all, but a Role Cop.

Guess this is what happens when I don't read my own role PM thoroughly..... :O

At this point, I deserve to be lynched for sheer stupidity......

And then we have

Then she lied to me, because the way my role is written, I am rolecop in flavor only, while my actual role is tracker.

When RC calls that a flavourcop

[jjh927]

Creature's guilty wasn't a guilty for the reasons I pointed out

[jjh927]

Fire have you started using your ability yet

[jjh927]

Creature's guilty wasn't a guilty for the reasons I pointed out

And MM's guilty isn't a guilty because redirector.

Nah, extremely unlikely

[jjh927]

Oh yeah, forgot this in the roles thing. IF NR is town, we also have a redirector/busdriver type role that moved her from jjh to me on N3.

or did Nico say something b4 this?

if nicorobin is town,

she

was redirected last night to someone else. that kind of precludes meme men having been redirected on the same night (presumably)

what's more, i'm not even sure how a redirector and a parity cop would resolve.

We're actually on day 5 here not day 4

[jjh927]

That along with the no lynch vote on eod 4? That's also suspect of jjh.

I would like you to expand on this if possible

[jjh927]

Yo guys so I can actually get it out of the way

ZA WARUDO in (expired on 2018-12-01 23:00:00)

[jjh927]

If you're voting at that time then it's your own fault

[jjh927]

I gave plenty of notice

[jjh927]

No

[jjh927]

People who aren't voting can't switch their votes

[jjh927]

People who aren't voting can switch their votes

Whoops ebwop

[jjh927]

My biggest worry about JJH is not that he defended Mastina so much but his early game was just directionless vote hopping. I'd expect town to be a little more tunnely (like he is now).

My early game play can easily be mistaken for directionless vote hopping but usually people obtain perspective and stop thinking I'm scum for it

[jjh927]

ZA WARUDO

[jjh927]

TOKI YO TAMARE

[jjh927]

Just proving I can do it

[jjh927]

Anyone got a steamroller handy

[jjh927]

Hey look our names are in yellow

Do I need to unvote to prove I did the thing or what, because it's probably gonna be like years before the next votecount

[jjh927]

Btw

It's finally just clocked that Skygazer wasn't modkilled

[jjh927]

"smited for inactivity" is kill flavour

[jjh927]

Invisibility has been modkilled.

Look at how vizzy got modkilled

[jjh927]

Btw, shouldnt Lady angel technically be voting, since she voted after your ability usage?

She unvoted like 2 seconds before I sent the PM

[jjh927]

That along with the no lynch vote on eod 4? That's also suspect of jjh.

I would like you to expand on this if possible

As in you're suspicious of defending mastina so strongly, and at eod 4 you could've voted an sr YET you voted NO LYNCH

-LH

Fire wasn't an SR of mine, and also I was aware that the hammer vote had already been cast

[jjh927]

That said I would still have no lynched, possibly even with hindsight lmao

[jjh927]

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=75812

Was town here and he seemed pretty tunnely. like he started out with 3 scumreads and stuck with them until he voted another scum in late game. He was a town tracker.

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=76042

Was scum here and didn't do much. Kinda randomly voted 2 guys. Similarish to here.

I'd also like to note that Jingle was in that game and scum.

Subject: Mini Theme 2007: Police Academy 1 - Game Over

The main thing was just blocking the two mislynches on day two

That's what really swung the game I think

Jingle’s scum team basically abaonded him in thread.

But he also chose to use the strategy of giving town correct mechanical advice

in lieu of letting town derp its way into stuff like repeating peeks, or in lieu of more actively powerwolfing, and got the double whammy of being scum read for the wrong reasons and not actually being able to push the game state in a proscum direction.
It all very well might have worked out without ank swinging the day 2 lynch... but there was little margin for error here.
Scum also got hosed by the rand with town randing sane cop and randoms giving “correct” peeks instead of throwing a lot of noise into the works.

Isn't he doing the same thing here?

viewtopic.php?f=51&t=76359

i know that NSG already posted this but he's doing that same vote hop thing.

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=72405
Town here. Seems to be going after the same guys he scumread earlier.

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=72485
Tunnels bomb right out of the gate and then Vedith until she dies. I guess that later on he does get kinda vote hoppy.

All in all I feel like his s1 play was more like his scum play instead of his town play but you guys can read for yourselves or think w/e.

Holy fuck this is some of the worst meta I have ever seen

[jjh927]

C I R C U M S T A N C E S

[jjh927]

Game 1- replaced into a slot right at the end of day 2
Game 2 - I lurked the fuck out after replacing into a widely scumread scum slot. I attempted to tunnel town, badly.
Game 3 - I was trying to emulate my day 1 town meta and I did it really badly. I believe NSG caught me because some of my early votes lacked reasoning of any kind, whereas if you're anyways decent at the game then my motivations should be pretty cut and dry.
Game 4- That game had post restrictions for everyone, in that you could make a limited number of posts per day. I also replaced in partway through day 1.
Game 5- I was a mason in an open setup, and furthermore replaced in partway through day 1.

I think what Nero is missing is basically the entire point, including that this is a large game for which I was around for the RVS, and not a specifically setup mini that I replaced into

[jjh927]

At EoD today I will be modkilling adelbert steiner. Gonna make a few more requests for replacements.

I would rather the game end than conftown get modkilled

[jjh927]

Either Nico is gonna flip scum or my entire perspective on the game is getting obliterated


We're not gonna make this any more accurate by waiting around imo

[jjh927]

I haven't read anything since Saturday, anything Right Head in particular needs to respond to or should we seal the deal here?

A little worried mostly since basically no one counter-pushed onto NSG but I'm kinda in a 'f it' mood atm

-rh

I’m only on 269 but why the nico votes

One of nico and nsg is scum right

So why nico and not nsg

Only reason why people are saying nico is because she was so sure mastina was scum like what??

[jjh927]

UNVOTE:

Haha look it's totally l-2 now someone else should vote and I can defo unvote

[jjh927]

UNVOTE:

Haha look it's totally l-2 now someone else should vote and I can defo unvote

Disclaimer: my vote is frozen and as such this unvote is invalid, as the lynch wagon will reflect.

[jjh927]

RIGHT

[jjh927]

Now what I don't understand is why Mastina didn't attempt to fake a guilty and get caught for it if scum desperately wanted to bus her, because that would have solved their issue of her being leashed into using her very pro-town role faster than the hard bus which I am confident was entirely planned out

[jjh927]

Mechanically, needless to say the roleblocker is scum but I'm pretty sure the babysitter can be too

[jjh927]

Ayy let's look at the varsoon votes again

Varsoon - (11) Jingle, Vecna,

Mastina, NicoRobin

, Meme MenX2, Porkens,

NSG

, JJ, Lady Angel,

Chickadee

Mastina - (3) Creature,

Firebringer

, Aristophanes

Nico

- (1)

Vizzy

NSG

- (1) Nero
Gamma - (1)

FB

Didn't vote-

Adalbert Steiner, Skygazer

[jjh927]

oh yeah and btw I'm back to thinking I was the N2 nightkill

Also whoops I included the mistake on the varsoon votes

Varsoon - (11) Jingle, Vecna,

Mastina, NicoRobin

, Meme MenX2, Porkens,

NSG

, JJ, Lady Angel,

Chickadee

Mastina - (3) Creature,

Firebringer

, Aristophanes

Nico

- (1)

Vizzy

NSG

- (1) Nero

FB

- (1) Gamma
Didn't vote-

Adalbert Steiner, Skygazer

[jjh927]

VOTE: Nero Cain

[jjh927]

It's possible

[jjh927]

Meme isn't lying about his role

[jjh927]

That said I'm sure one day something will get past me but it's not today

[jjh927]

He's probably town, but if you take that aside;

It would be foolish to fakeclaim a role with an A in it after Creature claimed
It passes the tests of making sense with flavour and other mechanics

[jjh927]

Go away Nero you're scum

Do you understand what "can be" means

[jjh927]

It's possible

sure but its also possible that there's only 1 or 3. Your belief that the claimed babysitter AND some unknown rolebloker are both scum is a pretty informed conclusion.

This is a terrible argument on so many levels and it makes no coherent sense. You're suggesting I "know" there are 2 scum left, which is a convenient misrep of what I said. Nobody has claimed the babysitter because that would be dumb. The roleblocker is blatantly scum based on the people who have claimed to have been roleblocked. If it was an "informed conclusion", then I would have to also be scum as well as both of those roles, meaning your argument doesn't even have self consistency.

[jjh927]

That said I'm sure one day something will get past me but it's not today

this coming from the person that hard defended Mastina all game...

Just gonna point out I was still right about her role so yeah

Just happened that she was scum playing very sub-optimally, the degree of which being one of the main reasons I locktowned her

[jjh927]

it's like not at all impossible that you are lying about your role and you do have a roleblock.

How the fuck did I freeze the votes if I was lying

[jjh927]

Mechanically, needless to say the roleblocker is scum but I'm pretty sure the babysitter can be too

What utility is there for scum babysitter?

Let's say there's a town vig or an SK

If the scum babysitter can predict a scum player going to be killed by them, then they protect them.
If the scum babysitter is the one likely to be killed, then they target a town player and go 1 for 1



Their targets have been highly questionable so it makes sense with that logic

[jjh927]

Well yeah I'm pretty sure Jingle's ability does something but all I can do is confirm it gives out pizza

[jjh927]

Oh also if Creature ever wants to check me out

I got 1 A in DIO, Evil Mastermind

And 3 As in role- 1 in deathproof, 2 in vote paralyzer

[jjh927]

Gamma don't you fucking dare tell me to think critically again when you're clearly lacking in that department by what you just said

[jjh927]

jj and think don't go together.

This is more scumposting okay but I'm not gonna get wound up

[jjh927]

Gamma don't you fucking dare tell me to think critically again when you're clearly lacking in that department by what you just said

Really? So far I recall Jingle and someone else has claimed it. So that’s not exactly what I thought but unless it’s jingle, the other person, and the babysitter all being scum, Town was targeted. So again: WHY WOULD SCUM BABYSITTER TARGET TOWN????

Because the babysitter considered they might get vigged

[jjh927]

Oh also because it's loud and as such only targeting scum would be dumb af

[jjh927]

Oh and also the someone else was fucking NicoRobin, a highly likely vig target who was scum

[jjh927]

jj and think don't go together.

This is more scumposting okay but I'm not gonna get wound up

I mean, I asked you to engage me about why I was scum and so far you've failed to do so.

Yeah I was making a post but I'm answering a bunch of other things I shouldn't have to, including your jabs at me and Gamma Emerald's uninformed nonsense, and I need to go shower.

Honestly the main thing is that your approaches to different wagons have been bad. The only scum you played an active role in getting lynched was Mastina, and as I said scum were hard bussing that. HOWEVER, we can go back to even that- you know that thing where you believed she was L-1 and were having cold feet about hammering? Yeah, that. But the places you've been putting votes and the inconsistency of your logic is just really pinging me. Sometimes you've came out with some really sane shit and other times you get those hole riddled arguments like the one from earlier. You don't seem at all consistent in that sense. You claim to have voted NSG in the Varsoon thing which is still weird considering Varsoon and Mastina were the only two viable wagons at that time. I'm not entirely sure what your thought process there has been. Because you were very logically attacking how Mastina went about using her role- I recall a "stop dragging your feet" which very much resonated. And you voted her, but it seemed more for pressure than for a top scumread thing, and I guess you mostly came around to it the following day. I don't recall you ever even touching on NicoRobin tbh, and I still maintain she was extremely obvious scum. I don't recall you ever taking a really hard stance on any of the flipped scum. Whereas you did try to start a counterwagon when 2 of them were the main wagons.

[jjh927]

It's the lack of hard stances. Find me a post you made about Nico from the previous day that wasn't theoretical crap that barely goes any further than "One of Nico and NSG is scum"

[jjh927]

I am the slot you have focused the most on throughout the game, and the fact that you still can't place me correctly tells me plenty anyhow

[jjh927]

I mean I could do an analysis where I figure out how many times you mention everyone else's names

[jjh927]

VOTE: Porkens

I'd believe a lot of stuff, but I don't believe both you and Jingle would've managed to miss the fact that NR's role asks for both your role and target, so why didn't one of you tell us?

I'm voting you over Jingle because your meme vote was especially bad yesterday.

The simplest solution is that it does not.

It doesn't make that a bad vote because the whole thing with Porkens would be the way scum targeting scum would play out but it's not the best reasoning

[jjh927]

That's just one of the scenarios you proposed the day before. Note that this is literally very possible scenario.

I could see the first two as scum, the last two not so much. I feel like the three scenarios here are: Nico is town and Mastina is placating her. Nico and Mastina are scum and this is distancing. Mastina and Nico are both town.

[jjh927]

That's just one of the scenarios you proposed the day before. Note that this is literally every possible scenario.

I could see the first two as scum, the last two not so much. I feel like the three scenarios here are: Nico is town and Mastina is placating her. Nico and Mastina are scum and this is distancing. Mastina and Nico are both town.

ebwop


But yeah that's really not a hard stance. That's you going "Yeah that's possible" to someone else saying something

[jjh927]

jjh927- Not scum with NR. Want to see reactions today. Very doubtful imo that 3 of the members of the scumteam have 'I'm gonna fuck with the ability of town to vote' roles, so if his role is confirmed low priority sort. Not Roleblocker unless Ari scum.

I mean my role is confirmed so

[jjh927]

UNVOTE:

Haha look it's totally l-2 now someone else should vote and I can defo unvote

A Story Revisited

Votecount 5.280:

Nicorobin (10):

jjh927, Northsidegal, Firebringer

, Vecna, Jingle, Lady Angel, Aristophanes, Gamma Emerald, Sora, Shiro
The Meme Men (1):

Porkens

Jingle (0):
Gamma Emerald (0):
Porkens (0):
Aristophanes (0):
Lady Angel: (0):
Whemestar (0):
Firebringer (0):
Creature (0):
Nero Cain (0):
jjh927 (0):
Vecna (0):
Profii (0):
Northsidegal (0):
Shoshin (0):

Not Voting: Nicorobin, Whemestar, Adelbert Steiner, Shoshin, Creature, Nero Cain

With 16 alive it's 9 to lynch. (still no mod error in this # despite several people insisting otherwise )

The day will end in (expired on 2018-12-12 19:00:00).

[jjh927]

you do realize that Nico didn't actually target Mastina right?

No reason why she didn't.

She just made up everything about the results, which is what I was saying for literally the entire time

[jjh927]

I mean my role is confirmed so

not the death part....

I don't see why that's important at all to mechanically placing me

[jjh927]

Nico couldn't target anyone else without the target being aware

She either targeted noone, or she targeted Mastina

Since targeting noone could potentially have caused both her and Mastina to be guiltied in some scenarios, it is more reasonable to accept that she targeted Mastina though in actuality the semantics of this mean nothing useful to us in this game state

[jjh927]

And then she made up a redirector to justify targeting Jingle so that she wasn't wasting her ability on town that had fullclaimed

[jjh927]

Actually that's a thought

[jjh927]

I, uh, hadn't claimed at all at that point. I had softed Doc, which I think mastina picked up on.

Yeah, whereas I had fullclaimed and Nico supposedly wanted to target me, right?

[jjh927]

But yeah I think it's worth coming back to the shenanigans with Creature's role and the result on Lady Angel

[jjh927]

This is like one of those Phoenix Wright moments where you're like

Was NicoRobin lying about being redirected?

Because my natural assumption is yes she's scum but it would make it add up in which case the redirector is highly likely to be town

Unless there's two redirecting roles like how shit has been coming in pairs

[jjh927]

I wonder what thing isn't in a pair, actually

[jjh927]

Off the top of my head the interactions and similar roles are like

me+varsoon (votey shit)
me+adalbert (deathproof)
Mastina+Meme Men (powerful alignment checking shit)
Vaxkiller+Shoshin (Delayed stuff)
Nico+Creature (rolecops)
Chickadee+Jingle (vends shit)
Vecna+Mystery babysitter (Loud roles that do other shit)
Shoshin+Mystery babystter (Protective roles that involve the protector dying)
Wh4t + whoever the vig is that can likely only kill people who don't post much (both vigs)
Lady Angel+Skygazer (Kinda similar)


So I guess it's not just pairs

[jjh927]

Yeah I say let's massclaim

[jjh927]

Oh yeah I was bullshitting about aspects of my role


I am in fact a 1-shot deathproof 1-shot vote paralyzer

My main bullshit was trying to hint that I'd get treestumped if I got killed a second time

[jjh927]

Btw Jingle, I don't know if you've considered this and you're like the only other guy in the game who will care, but there's a key difference between loyal town gladiator and disloyal scum gladiator in this game and I kinda want to see if you noticed it

[jjh927]

Well, or any other 3p but yeah

[jjh927]

Dude shoshin appeared out of nowhere on day 4

[jjh927]

Tinfoil mechanics theory, however, says that NicoRobin's ability failed on Porkens but Porkens reflected it back and rolecopped NicoRobin, and if I am correct and Porkens received a full role PM I would like him to claim this

Tinfoil 2- Return of the Tinfoil - This is still a shit theory

[jjh927]

Why would you hide behind Meme last night when they were somewhat likely to be shot?

Because if they lived I wanted confirmation that they are town since the claim was, as noted by others, a great fakeclaim to bus Nico with and gain major towncred!

We now can say they are definitely town!

Is this a weak hider claim or a regular hider claim

[jjh927]

Aren't they all weak?

I am a weird variant where the hide prevents direct killing actions but not other actions.

No

The normal hider prevents direct killing actions but not other actions

[jjh927]

Followup question- why the fuck haven't you been crumbing if you're a weak hider

[jjh927]

You should just spill the majority of the contents of your role PM so I can read it for you

[jjh927]

skeptical look intensifies

[jjh927]

What's your actual flavour

[jjh927]

Just so you know the idea of Ari fakeclaiming this is currently laughable

[jjh927]

Oh. I believe that makes Mememen pretty damn conftown.

Do you mean the fact that he got roleblocked in a confirmed manner by an almost-certain-to-be-scum roleblocker

[jjh927]

@RC: how would a hider show up to a voyeur? How would a Roleblocker that also causes a post restriction show up to a voyeur?

Meme men was targeted by both a miscellaneous role (which could well be normal hider) and a roleblocking action last night.

Firebringer flipped btw; ask specifics of how HIS voyeur works

[jjh927]

Service with a Smile (Modified Inventor): Everyone you neighbourize will be able to choose to take limited watcher, tracker, or voyeur actions until all have been taken, then the availability resets. You will perform these actions, but not receive the results: your customer will receive the results directly.

@Mod: What result would Firebringer's invented voyeur actions get on a target on which a normal hider action was performed?

[jjh927]

Just so you know the idea of Ari fakeclaiming this is currently laughable

Are you saying that he couldn't pretend to dumbtell?

I'm saying he's a hider

Doesn't mean he's not pretending to dumbtell although I don't think he is

[jjh927]

Why have you been using your ability in scummy ways

[jjh927]

Legit can't see you ever getting shot when there's conftown around

[jjh927]

Why have you been using your ability in scummy ways

Is it scummy to try to get my suspects killed?

The issue is that you basically haven't used your protective role

[jjh927]

Your targets make more sense from a scum perspective, targeting town on the offchance you get vigged except for the night when it seems most likely that NicoRobin will get vigged

[jjh927]

It's a dumbass way to play it unless you're a very good player

[jjh927]

You have to have good reads and be a likely nightkill target

otherwise you're a fool twice over

[jjh927]

Also no I think your lack of scruples is nai

[jjh927]

I'm the lurker vig.

I'm assuming that there's scum in the protectives (gamma, ari, Vecna, JJH maybe Shoshin) b/c scum not having a protective seems p odd to me

Oh cool I take it you can't shoot people who have a butt ton of posts?

[jjh927]

UNVOTE:

[jjh927]

Hey so what if Lady Angel's dream of providence was what added Shoshin to the game and both are scum

[jjh927]

Nah that's too tinfoil

[jjh927]

It must have done something though, right

[jjh927]

Oh and are we gonna have NSG claim if she shows up

[jjh927]

I think we should for completion although she is confirmed not scum

[jjh927]

I'm not against lynching ari

[jjh927]

I just believe his claim is all

[jjh927]

I still think Gamma is the most likely candidate for scum protective role

[jjh927]

Also we lynch Porkens because it's highly likely he is the roleblocker?

[jjh927]

I want him to show up at least

[jjh927]

I do want to see what he claims

[jjh927]

Hyperposting is life

[jjh927]

Is your argument against Jingle's strat there that he proposed it? Because you should try to understand that it's good play rn

[jjh927]

Yeah I remember that being mentioned in team mafia because I got the vig role

was a pretty dumb vig role tbh

[jjh927]

Yo Vecna, if you read this could you go into more detail on the message you got from Porkens

[jjh927]

Fuck you, I suggested that role.

Yeah but it was bad because in practice it meant the only viable targets were all town, but shooting people who would probably get lynched anyway was still generally +ev

[jjh927]

Dream of providence

It's supposedly a mystery what it did

[jjh927]

Also the discrepancy with Creature is weird because it's flavour name that had the wrong number of As

Creature found 1 A, while LA is claiming to be "Dreaming God, Dreamer of Dreams" which has 3 As

[jjh927]

Btw Nero, could you take us through all your targets? I assume you've attempted more kills than just the ones that succeeded?

[jjh927]

My vote freezing thing is completely confirmed fwiw
The loud babysitter is almost completely confirmed too
I confirmed receiving a pizza that Jingle sent me. I recall Mastina doing the same
Porkens has confirmed part of Vecna's claim but I'm not sure who else has targeted him

[jjh927]

I thought I was fairly public about how I got the watcher

[jjh927]

Did I say who I watched with it N1 because if I haven't then I should probably wait until everyone is done claiming

[jjh927]

Vecna, RC told me that he forgot to tell me that I was visited by Beavis, so. Your action did work, RC is just a moron who makes mod errors.

Loud jailkeep kinda confirmed I guess

[jjh927]

Btw what's your flavour Nero

[jjh927]

It's not necessarily scum and town links, it's that there's a lot of pairs. I did a post earlier

[jjh927]

Ayy I don't know if anyone else has their forum settings set up to allow for timestamps to have seconds but I do and those were simultaneous posts

[jjh927]

Off the top of my head the interactions and similar roles are like

me+varsoon (votey shit)
me+adalbert (deathproof)
Mastina+Meme Men (powerful alignment checking shit)
Vaxkiller+Shoshin (Delayed stuff)
Nico+Creature (rolecops)
Chickadee+Jingle (vends shit)
Vecna+Mystery babysitter (Loud roles that do other shit)
Shoshin+Mystery babystter (Protective roles that involve the protector dying)
Wh4t + whoever the vig is that can likely only kill people who don't post much (both vigs)
Lady Angel+Skygazer (Kinda similar)


So I guess it's not just pairs

[jjh927]

Does it really count if it's within a second though

[jjh927]

If setup spec is your angle there it's super weak

[jjh927]

Shoshin can be likely mechanical town for now for that

[jjh927]

I'd bet my magical powers that protect me from NicoRobin in uPicks that Wheme strongmanned Fire last night

[jjh927]

Why is porkens so low on that list

[jjh927]

Also we lynch Porkens because it's highly likely he is the roleblocker?

Porkens is confirmed not the roleblocker. I jailkept him last night. We still need his claim. Its the red herring.

Like the only possibility is if there is a redirector on scum, that redirected me onto someone that has a dialogue option, and then Porkens also decided to visit me. Something weird happened though, but theres another weird convoluted mechanical explanation that makes a lot more sense.

Don't say confirmed

Same reason I wanted you to expand on what message you got from Porkens but you're probably right to wait for his claim first

[jjh927]

Ari, still want your actual flavour claim

[jjh927]

VOTE: Muttons

[jjh927]

Ari, still want your actual flavour claim

Np np

I'm Akali, the Fist of Shadow. She seems pretty badass actually!

Okay yeah sure that can be a hider

Fuck being invisible to turrets because that's bullshit

[jjh927]

She makes a shroud and while she's in it she has this bullshit super invisibility

still dies if you smack her with the aoe though

[jjh927]

Because he's willing to functionally kill himself so we don't have to use a lynch on him

[jjh927]

We need to lynch the roleblocker for this shit to work though and that's either sheep or lady angel

[jjh927]

Because tracker innos mean nothing unless you only have one scum left, and we provably had at least two?

Also, I claimed my results in the neighborhood because not letting scum know what actions remained on Fire's claimed role was optimal and I had no reason to believe both of us could die.

I only realized that Fire being roleblocked meant I wouldn't have gotten a result recently; I had wrongly assumed that it operated as a normal inventor does.

Excuse me but the neighbourhood closes during the day

[jjh927]

Also yeah we need both Sheep and NSG's claims

[jjh927]

im a flipless villager who sends messages to people who visit me

And the rest?

Flavour, any other modifiers, etc

[jjh927]

Well she still needs to claim everything

[jjh927]

Flavour

Modifiers

Etc

Now

[jjh927]

Like, no popping up later and prodging while trying to figure a way out of this shit, winning soccer games, or having lunch with girls

You're taking us through your roleclaim so it is not at all ambiguous

[jjh927]

Should be already voting him

[jjh927]

I'm not sure I can believe at this time that it can be that bad

[jjh927]

Specifics

What kind of messages do you send

Why have you yet to say the word reflexive

[jjh927]

Do you know who you have sent messages to

[jjh927]

How many things did you get from RC last night

[jjh927]

How many things did you get from RC last night

[jjh927]

Also this again

Why have you yet to say the word reflexive

[jjh927]

If it's not clear

Can you ask RC whether or not you visit people who visit you

[jjh927]

I don't recall saying one of them was fakeclaiming

Just, if they're both town then they're literally invincible if they target each other?

[jjh927]

If bodyguard is targeted for kill, then they are protected by the babysitter.
If the babysitter is targeted for kill, then they are protected by the bodyguard who is protected by the babysitter

[jjh927]

Sheepsaysmeep replaces Porkens effective whenever I can get him his role PM

see you next week sheep

I am legitimately feeling terrible for the quality of my moderation.

It's been awful. I chose a bad time to mod this.

I am sorry.

I appreciate the apology.

@jjh but... how is it invincible? I don't follow.

-LH

Because they can do it every night


That said with the scum roleblocker they just roleblock Shoshin I guess

[jjh927]

Fuck it NSG is claiming

[jjh927]

VOTE: NSG

There is no role that could be that harmful to claim here

[jjh927]

We have multiple claimed protectives, a parity cop and a vig

[jjh927]

He tracked LA via Firebringer