Detective Penguin & City of Fogport [Game Over]

[Marquis]

VOTE: kuribo

[Marquis]

I think voting me is dumb

[Marquis]

So Cheet and I are town

[Marquis]

Don't do this to me

[Marquis]

Oh shit I'm a miller forgot to say tghat

[Marquis]

Listen, Marquis. I'm here to help you. Be honest with me, and I can put a word in with the DA.

Hi. I'm town

[Marquis]

Maybe I'm old and vulnerable to displays of aggression but I honestly really do not like the votes on me feels like the kind of wagon where 2 are pressuring, 1 is scum hopping on just because but idk which.

[Marquis]

Let me be a Karen

I'm rusty and already trying to move in a direction where I feel I'll catch scum..... it's usually related to the first RVS wagon

[Marquis]

marquis im not gonna bully you atm does that help

it's too late i've been Oppressed

Youre taking RVS waaaay too seriously.

but then how does anything happen?

VOTE: Chandra
I just really don't like the way she's playing this.

[Marquis]

as bad as fishs scummy terrible bad scumclaiming vote currently is
i dont really see anything scummy beyond that

I don't see it I think Fish is town especially because hes defneding me who is town against someone voting me who might not be town. Thats town

[Marquis]

So where's the geriatric ruleset I hear all the kids talking about these days.

Anyway I actually don't like when people try to adopt a different personality for an account because it just obfuscates your towntells but I like Ceph so I'll just be here. Not being upset

UNVOTE:


Marquis
PenguinPower

Chandra Nalaar

Fish Monger

ofrhz
Croag
Kagami
Bingle
Day One Lynch
Vecna
Perry Pelican
Judge Joseph Dredd
Gorkington
popsofctown
kuribo
Flavor Leaf

Pine?

[Marquis]

I believe it

[Marquis]

Wait you can't just say you're informed and not share with the class

[Marquis]

Can you just write one post where you put it all together including the other anti town stuff I don't really want to parse this

[Marquis]

Who is this

[Marquis]

Hey guys talk to me. Who in this playerlist do you know generally prefers playing scum?

[Marquis]

I missed mafia where people try to use big words and big posts to look cool while uncaring that it just hurts town engagement

[Marquis]

So Bingle already outed the neighborhood - I actually

don't

think it's negative utility for town to leave it unclaimed or for town to target us. I would

I also don't understand why anyone would have assumed beforehand that they weren't the only miller or that if someone was in a neighborhood, it'd be a neighborhood full of millers. Or the assumption that town should have KNOWN there were multiple neighborhoods with similar roles grouped in that hood, prior to them claiming... Like. It feels like pops getting mad at people for revealing parts of the setup comes from a place of mafia knowledge/having more pieces of the puzzle from the start that town wouldn't have.

VOTE: pops to keep my mind on this.
At the same time I'm uncertain what mafia knowledge that would be unless like 2 members were in hoods themselves... well which may be the case.
Our hood didn't get night 0 talk so I don't think mafia would have either.

Day One Lynch feels like they could be defending a scumpartner or whiteknighting pops lol. Don't like it but my mind's more on pops rn.


On the town side. I'm liking Bingle as a solid townbloc pick (everything seems to come from a place of genuine town concern), not sure about Vecna.
Penguin feelings have flattened out.
Flavor Leaf I like a bit more - do think it could come from town concern but less certain that it actually does.

[Marquis]

Continuation of line 1 - I would believe there is a LOT of town negative utility like millers in this game, given the number of actions the mod needs to give to town to make mafia's alternate wincon feasible.
Our neighborhood essentially neutralizes negative utility. If you must use a neg utility action, targeting us is fine.

in terms of pops i think being "ahhhhhhh wtf" about people claiming things is veryyyyy safe content for scum to generate
and im not sure i believe how much she cared about it if that makes sense?

This was my initial thought yeah. Usually complaining is easy to tell if genuine or not but this instance felt... not wholly committed in a sense

[Marquis]

wow why not just call pine scum and steal ALL MY READS while youre at it :p

I'm really not bothering to sort you but at the same time I want to call you town bc it's fun working with you and you'll always end up bamboozling me if you're scum

anyway

[Marquis]

Our hood didn't get night 0 talk so I don't think mafia would have either.

I find this bit weird - mafia is confirmed to have daytalk in their PT

Thanks I forgot about daytalk lol


I feel like if I want to analyze that correction from DOL it's gonna lead me down a WIFOM path.

[Marquis]

I don't know if it's because it's Ceph or because it's Chandra, but I find myself disagreeing with a LOT of what they say.

Historically speaking that's 50-50 town-scum odds.

[Marquis]

what. no.
I know my hood had no night 0 talk. I assumed scum weren't in conversation either.
Given scum are probably actively daytalking and setup specing, I actually think it makes more sense that pops' reaction could have come from scum collectively knowing more about the setup than town do, both from the outset and having each other to freely bounce setup/role/wincon ideas off of.


OK I'm also pretty sure DOL isn't an alt now. I'm slightly more confident in a scumlean?

[Marquis]

it reads like someone who started 3 months ago but i get that too

[Marquis]

I'm boutta go to sleep and this is more of a checkin since I haven't read anything but
I'm of the firm belief ending day 1 early and the benefits of lynch and kill info is usually better than letting it get past, like, page 40
Day 1 always feels like discussion only prolonged for the sake of it
I'll reassess my vote tmrw

+
I think my neighborhood is all town btw or at least only bingle is scum but I think likely town?

[Marquis]

oooh I read that. hot take. I actually really like that.

[Marquis]

hider can hide behind me it's safe
vecna me Chandra kuribo fish gork all town
everyone else pls start towntelljnh

[Marquis]

Anyway idk why anyone's still voting me that's stupid

[Marquis]

Checking in before bed - I'm at L-3 and looks like the hood effect is revealed.
I'm unable to fullclaim, but my role is confirmed town upon certain conditions.

I know it's a biased remark, but I also agree with Ceph re: setup mechanics with my hood.
From a moderator perspective it makes no sense to design a untouchable neighborhood around 2 multivoters and 1 unknown and make the unknown the scum role. If I were scum here it'd set the team up for unnecessary attention or failure from the outset.

I can confirm it seems the theme of our hood's powers is strength early game and reduced from then on. I don't think increased vote power rules out one of the others being scum, but last I checked Vecna seemed really town and Bingle I'm ambivalent on.

I should have time to actually catch up tomorrow.
But I'm also seeing we've reached 40 pages - I do prefer a quicker lynch... of course I'd rather it not be me since it seems like a RVS wagon some people are hanging onto purely because they can and probably aren't being pressured about it... VOTE: Pine because from past experiences I'd have expected much more of an impact from him within the first few IRL days, and also because it's a viable competing wagon I have neutral to good feelings about.

[Marquis]

Your voting powers decline over time so you best hope we lynch scum today, but it's such a waste NOT to be using your powers today (it's like being a N1 Cop/Doctor/Whatever and NOT submitting an action on N1. You feel??)

I will also say if it weren't me on the chopping block, I'd probably say this too!

But I feel that the way this wagon built up and has stayed built up feels like a lynch of convenience only later driven by faulty setup spec - like everyone else I've been looking at who's been townreading me and it's quite a few, but most of the votes on the wagon seem to have jumped on in RVS/before the miller thing was fully hashed out, and how they haven't moved should be concerning people :/

I'm annoyed I have to make this case for myself because it honestly feels silly and I'm not used to being the day 1 lynchbait

[Marquis]

Reading page 41 and taking a closer look back at role info ...

Anyone who visits a member of our PT will be roleblocked, vanillized, and join our PT. The action affects anyone in the PT. We all knew this info from the PT and it was in my role PM so I assume the others too.

My role says I investigate as mafia. That info isn't shared in the PT. But Jingle saying the same, idk if Vecna does, indicates if we leave the PT or join another somehow we'll no longer have the reflexive modifiers. So another neighborhood probably has similar people stealing properties if anyone's willing to share instead of letting ppl go wtf over it

Also think with all the outspoken voices scum would probably be playing a laid back game here while I'm in the crosshairs. Like it's one of those games where focus is so far heavily on who's talking and content to disregard the less actives for now

Heading home will do a full read tonight

[Marquis]

I don't see why flips would be useful, if we don't force associations

Because realistically come day 3 nobody really rereads a 50+ page day 1 unless it's to cherrypick posts for their current argument

Are we all Mafia philosophy optimists here or

[Marquis]

still reading. lol ceph.

I really want you to be town but I'm only like 70% sold rn (enough to not want to lynch)

[Marquis]

Let me be clear one more time - I realize being open about the setup probably helps scum but I personally think the amt of misinformation going around helps scum and hurts town more

I, my role, investigate as mafia. unless I'm missing something big there is nowhere in my role PM or the hood that tell me Bingle and Vecna do too, and yet that's what seems to be the case if they're telling the truth.

and then separately, I am aware both in my role PM and in the hood that anyone who visits a member will be RBed and VNed. it seems to indicate if I'm no longer in the hood for some reason I no longer have those reflexive qualities. I knew Bingle and Vecna knew this too and that was essentially my pregame info before claim fuckery happened. As far as I knew I was the only one with the Miller modifier

I will lastly say it is stupid to scumhunt neighborhoods based on expected scum quotas and to try and outsmart the mod, it's wifom and the least productive use of time. It also seems like the setup was designed to get people moving through hoods.

resorting my list when at a comp too

[Marquis]

Based on past fakegod setups I think scum also get a sample fake town role PM that is flavor guaranteed to not be in the game. I'm wary of people not knowing otherwise and tow reading people because they're sharing role PM wording, just assume mafia can easily access how a town role PM with different modifiers and PT and role info would be worded and formatted

[Marquis]

i was hard townreading pelican up until the horribly fake sounding vig claim
and yet...........it was so bad im thinking it might actually..............hhhh
whats up with that

who's pelican an alt of


if this game has taught me anything so far it's that the setup has a lot of symmetry or repeated role elements and i would not put it past FG to allow duplicates of strong town roles, balanced by the fact that temptation to act will lead to a quick caffeine endgame

[Marquis]

Spoiler: Role PMs

Name -

Dapper Owl

Job -

Company Owner

Alignment -

Town

The Birdcage

You have access to the

The Birdcage PT

. You also know that there are total of 5 votes controlled by the players of this PT.

Abilities

You are a

1-shot Jailkeeper

.

Town Win Condition

You win when all

Mafia

-aligned players are

dead

, and there is at least one

Town

-aligned player

alive

.

Spoiler: Dead Horse

This is the OP sample
It is obvious that Dapper Owl's access to the birdcage does not in and of itself grant him any abilities
In the abilities section he would hope to be excited to find out that he controls 3 votes, but alas, he is only a 1-shot jailkeeper.
Dapper Owl naturally surmises that at least one other bird in the 2 player birdcage has a line in his abilities that says "you control 4 votes."
He surmises that because the format of this role PM shows him that's how the Birdcage Informed truth nugget would be maintained. That's the only way, since it doesn't say "You know that there are a total of 5 votes among these players because you control 1 of them" or whatever.

I opened a similar PM.
Rather than knowing that at least 1 person must have a certain ability the way Dapper Owl knows, I know that -everyone- else must have a certain ability to meet the condition I was informed of in my neighborhood truth nugget - except perhaps mafia, who wouldn't need an ability. However, unlike Dapper Owl's Informed truth nugget, the nature of the ability itself doesn't clearly convey that the Neighborhood section is insufficient to grant characteristics that make the truth nugget true. So a mafiosi missing the ability might spend 50 pages referring to a shared ability, an ability that might go away if they leave their neighborhood, a neighborhood characteristic rather than a "modifier", and then finally figure out the issue on page 50.

no, my point is based on past experience scum will get a town role separate from the public one which they can essentially use as a guaranteed viable fakeclaim
so i'm saying to not put any stock in people who sound like they're honestly reading off a town role pm- it felt like part of this playerlist seemed to be easily swayed by role pm semi-quoting posts

[Marquis]

who's pelican an alt of

RCEnigma

do we think they're smart or dumb


maybe im being rude but im debating whether its one of those fakeclaims that scum really want to make and have semi plotted out from the start, or town excited by their role and really wanting a chance to use it. because part of the reason i townread pelican was they seemed to be excited to progress the game and idk it just felt more town pr than scum player, but i could be wrong. the claim is such a weird thing

[Marquis]

Like, he is conf scum.

Not likely scum at this point.

He is legit conf scum. He flat out was wrong on a role pm related reasoning.

We aren’t doing a FL vs Pelican today. We are doing Pelican.

ok im sorry for asking you to do extra work but the case has been spread across 7 pages it seems. like so much of everything else is already hard to parse.
can you please concisely say why he's confscum i absolutely cannot follow


also i think you are solid town regardless of pelican being scum or town, or you being a vig or lying, that's why i'm wanting to work with you despite reservations about apparent fakeclaiming history

[Marquis]

I'm told I investigate as mafia. And that the members of our hood investigate as mafia.

What I'm getting at is that Miller can be a role or a modifier, and the reason I was asking was because it's useful to know what all these millers have been told in their neighborhood and do you understand what I'm saying or do I have to dumb it down?

I'll give you an example: there's a huge difference between "everyone in this neighborhood is a Ninja" and "everyone in this neighborhood has the ninja modifier."

I'll let Perry answer this

Nope I'm good.

If you skimmed your role PM in the first place, and didn't reread your role PM to provide kuribo an accurate response here, then in that 10% universe where you're town here, then your laziness is the cause of this mislynch, don't be mad at me.

Because you didn't begin posting with the style of having 2 red check blurbs as opposed to just the one anywhere in this thread until

after

FL and I said we do, one after another. And I originally put you on the spot here in front of kuribo to achieve that sequencing intentionally.

It's a little dirty and angleshooty and I feel bad about it but maybe I'll cause FakeGod to run an even higher percentage of opens, woo.

This. He’s literally conf scum.

It was definitely dirty and on a technicality, but we didn’t mean to get a dirty read on him. He outed himself hard with a Freudian slip.

This isn’t one of those “people say people slip all the time”

He legit slipped up, on a very minor thing, might I add, I see exactly why it happened, and it sucks for him. It was just extremely unfortunate, which is like the epitome of scumRCE.

am i stupid this makes no sense to me what's the slip you're talking in circles

[Marquis]

oof ok lemme sleep on this

[Marquis]

1: the not having 2 investigates as mafia in his role pm, a la Pops and I with our abilities and our neighborhood.
2: his knowledge and confirmation of me being a vig, where he essentially asked who I was shooting with cologne gambit (i explained way back)

#1 i do think this could be town just not reading their role pm because there's so much to take in, i literally had to reread mine every 10 pages to made sure i internalized the diff modifier/hood stuff and who knew what

i'm not really sold on a scumread based off of someone not knowing their role pm, scum are more careful to cross their t's and dot their i's on this


#2 you know that whole thing in high school where u think that boy you like has a crush on you back and is flirting but really he's just a decent human being and you were making up his thoughts in your head? yeah this feels it could be one of those situations




again am i stupid, do i just not get it and everyone else does.
i think you're town for the conviction that it's a slip, i just don't think there is one except from your PoV.
meanwhile im still on the fence about what to do from the perspective of vig counterclaims, again i think this game so far has pretty much taught a lesson that there can be multiples and this game is designed to be somewhat immune to level 1 setup spec, i would normally let the vigs shoot each other and see if either dies but im concerned they actually both might be vigs and then we lose even more town one night.

[Marquis]

Pelican talked about, and I’m paraphrasing, i don’t know word for word, but I’ll go back and quote, that he only has the “informed the entire neighborhood investigates as mafia” part. That is because, as mafia, he wouldn’t be told that he comes off as mafia to investigations because he IS mafia. It’s not part of his role, it’s his alignment. His role doesn’t cause him to be investigated as mafia. Pops and my role does because we are town, and ne’s Scum.

oooooooooooooooooooooooooooh ok
why didnt u type that out earlier













hm i like this
sleeping on it

[Marquis]

also FUCK ME i didnt do a readslist i really wanted to out of nostalgia
,,but nobody reads readslists unless theyre cherrypicking associatives ugh

[Marquis]

in case day ends while im asleep

my personal town bloc: flavor, chandra, vecna, ...pops maybe?
town enough for me to not wanna lynch for now?: jjd, fish, day one

could be a pelican partner but otherwise good enough of a player to wanna keep them around: gork

keeping an eye on bc i think they could be scum but all my scum feelings are kind of mellow rn: pine, bingle, croag slot bc it feels like a newbie scum lurk


gotta think about motivations: penguin

[Marquis]

VOTE: perry
yeah this feels like scum given up.

REAL:LY going to sleep now
ready for day to end sorta at least i dont feel bad about my vote




edit: @kuribo

pops, flavor, and perry are in a hood. the hood says everyone in it investigates as mafia.

perry emphatically stated there was no "you investigate as mafia" esque text in his role pm.

pops and flavor stopped on that comment to say they both do have that text in their role pm. (i can confirm this is the case for me too.)

so what perry's PoV was, he thought pops and flavor only knew they investigated as mafia because the hood first post said so. he didn't realize the millers would get that info as a personal role modifier in their role pm. it follows perry didn't receive that miller-specific role pm text because he's scum - of course mafia inherently investigate as mafia, so FG doesn't write that line in the scum role pm

this is one of those instances where it really does seem like a role pm related slip that can't just be caused by town not remembering everything.

[Marquis]

or oof maybe i have it wrong i liked that post
whats wrong w me am i soft now

[Marquis]

merp UNVOTE:
gnight

[Marquis]

ok I'm pretty set on pelican now

I like bingle's play less and less, recent posts feel like scum taking shots from the sidelines without genuine investment in solving thru reads. they've also put out a lot of high effort sounding stuff but mostly setup related which is easy for scum to generate.
like gork pointing this out bc I saw the same thing.
should probably lynch that

vecna's reaction to pelican's play progression is exactly my own

there was something croag said recently that felt like a genuine town statement idk where I'll find it again later

updating townlist: vecna, chandra, gork, flavor, pops, maaaybe croag, maaaaaaaaybe fish

[Marquis]

in case I haven't siteflaked by endgame I'll call scumteam pelican, bingle, then either of pine/kuribo

then I'll quote this if I'm right in endgame and tell yall to suck it

[Marquis]

oh I forgot I wanted to say re: kuribo, he's a player I don't particularly want to lynch because I think he generally has good townplay utility, but do want to see an actual vig call his bluff and shoot him lol

basically I don't want to read him because he puts on the angry voice as scum too and I'm susceptible to being misled by emotion

[Marquis]

OOOOH SHIT YOU CLAIMED THAT RIGHT

ok I'm back to null uwu

[Marquis]

nulltown actually?
don't be insulted I'm just scared

[Marquis]

no I really am not better than that owo

[Marquis]

I agree with kagami that strong PRs including vig and cop should just go ham

oh pause for a sec, kagami could be scum too. huh anyway

I don't think we get anywhere by trying to micromanage caffeine with little to no setup info in regards to night actions N1. like I think it's more of a distraction and a way for scum to influence which powers they do or don't want in play during the night

the only way scum get caught by PRs is by unpredictability

[Marquis]

Mafia knows based on their team PRs and the public claims what PRs are likely to exist. We shouldn't be completing the puzzle for them by making it known which roles will actually act.

[Marquis]

merp idk anymore

i keep going from pelican seemed town from play to scum from claim and scum from post wagon reactions to town for fatalism to square one

[Marquis]

hoo boy

VOTE: bingle gork idk if this gets anywhere but I'm with it
like with the timing and content of bingle's pop ins I saw the same thing. I don't exactly want to call it whiteknighting bc idk if pelican is town but it's easy scum content to throw up opposition to stuff without trying to lead town in an actual direction.

[Marquis]

also I've been thinking over kagami's scum vig commentary and even though apparently FG has done scum vig before. idk it feels like spec I'd have expected from like anyone else

like so many people taking the possibility of scum vig at face value?? did that not seem weird to anyone else



OHHH THERE WAS ALSO SOMEONE ELSE EARLIER DAY 1 WHO MADE SOME SCUMSLUP ESQUE COMMENT ON HOOD NIGHTTALK VS DAYTALK BUT IT WAS TOTALLY GLOSSED OVER I wanted to talk about that but where the fuck is it

[Marquis]

like in my memory it was someone all like oh I was somehow mistaken I thought all hoods had daytalk. yours doesn't? ok cool moving on
ugh where

[Marquis]

God I want to be a good town player again who gets along with everyone and bands together with a townbloc to systematically trap scum but first off I wanna be a GOOD town player

why am I so wishy washy I HATE this

[Marquis]

like everything about pelican post vig claim and maybe-scumslip says scum. but I'm legitimately afraid he'll flip town because I really can see how we're all just fcking wrong about the setup

and then bingle who I believe I do scumread them for valid reasons but there's that tiny voice in the back of my head questioning if it's because I've ALSO fallen into that false belief there must be scum in our Hood, and if it's not me and it's not Vecna,,,,,,



I'm sorry. Mafia is one of those games where generally being more confident in your reads gets you townreads and leadership cred and damn I wish I had that rn to be a better town player.

all I think I know rn are my townreads and even then I'm so paranoid I'm just gonna eat egg later on or at endgame.

[Marquis]

also kuribo if I'm treating you like shit I'm so so sorry really. I think that's the thing I want the most to get better at knowing what lines not to cross in mafia.

[Marquis]

like in my memory it was someone all like oh I was somehow mistaken I thought all hoods had daytalk. yours doesn't? ok cool moving on
ugh where

quoting this so I don't forget to look into i during RL tomorrow if we get there.

[Marquis]

I don't like either of Bingle and JJD here fyi.

[Marquis]

I'm locking in kuribo town don't egg me

UNVOTE: again....I do think Perry is the most logical play. not quite ready for day to end. I'm a hypocrite yes. want to see a few more things

[Marquis]

I really don't think Bingle is scum anymore.

I'd very much like to lunch o-guy, pls.
VOTE: ojrvz

[Marquis]

Town:

Marquis
Vecna
Bingle
Chandra
Gork/chennis
Day One Lynch

pops - maybe?
Pine - maybe?
Flavor - maybe?


Unsorted: ohfvz, Penguin, Croag, Kagami, JJD

[Marquis]

I really don't think Bingle is scum anymore.

I'd very much like to lunch o-guy, pls.
VOTE: ojrvz

Why?

I think you're flying under the radar as scum and ineffectual if town

[Marquis]

I'd also like to look into Penguin as I can't recall any real stances of his but I have 0 experience playing with him - unsure if this is his typical activity or posting style. It's throwing me off

[Marquis]

I have 0 experience playing with him

You want to keep pushing this an accurate statement?

If I'm mistaken just correct me lol. Regardless it's nothing I can remember.

[Marquis]

Marquis is scum. Or just really bad.

Nah. That list is p solid. pops is scum, Flavor deserves to be town and I don't think Chandra deserves to be in the list, but otherwise it's .

I'm not very comfortable calling Flavor town, I'm starting to get the sense their righteous conviction is within their scumrange. Also the vig crossclaim with the other one presumably flipping exactly what he claimed :/

[Marquis]

Maybe bumping Penguin up into the maybe category actually. Not today's lynch at least

[Marquis]

I really don't think Bingle is scum here.

I think with one scum down going into Day 2 I'm honestly all in to lynch anyone currently in my unsorted tier, no particular preference - orzhf, Croag, Kagami, JJD.
Pops might fall into that too, but it might just be because I'm paranoid. She's putting herself out there a lot so I'm generally fine seeing her stick around til late game at least.


@chennis it's not that I don't have scumreads but for me the easiest way to find scum is to remove everyone I believe is town
I'm more confident in townreads especially when it's because the slot towntold or has said something I think is very unlikely scum would think to fake

When I have scumreads, often I'm just unsure if they're town saying the wrong thing to put it simply.

[Marquis]

VOTE: Flavor Leaf

I don't think pops or DOL's requests are unreasonable after the D1 mislynch, and everyone being "oh that silly Flavor Leaf, he does this all the time as town so guess we'll never know if he's fakeclaiming or not" WE MISLYNCHED A TOWN VIG BECAUSE OF THIS

[Marquis]

FL did not shoot Fish. I have no idea why anyway would think that.

I was looking to see if his attitude would at all change through the first few pages of d2, now it just feels like scum trying to gloss over all the BS that happened

The lesson in fakegod setups is play conservatively and play mafia

The moment town stops playing mafia is the moment town loses

BTW if I wasn't already townreading Gork this post would have been a solid +++ for the slot

[Marquis]

My conclusions from D2 play and postings so far:

• Scum vig is still ridiculous and I hate anyone jumping through hoops to try and make the moonlogic work
  
• Flavor did not kill Fish, but is being purposefully unclear on the matter. He ignored Pops wanting a hard claim and used DOL asking to pivot onto a scumread there.
  
• Flavor as either alignment knows he has a reputation for fakeclaiming as town. I don't doubt Flavor as scum would take advantage of this to get an early mislynch on what he sees is an actual vig.
  
• a scum!Flavor gets to have the best of both worlds here, straddling the line between the idea that his town vig claim is legit in a game with 2 nightkills, and the idea that if he isn't really a vig he's just town trying to bait the scum kill
  
• There isn't a world in which we can let this continue as is unpunished, and getting this done now also clears up the gamestate while we're ahead

Alternatively, unless Flavor is somehow telling 100% truth (lol), we plead for the vig to shoot Flavor tonight, but I'm certain scum are expecting that and will be using whatever powers they have to make Flavor live whether he's town or scum. And considering Fish got vigged instead last night too.. idk man.

[Marquis]

Also if anyone can confirm I'm town please speak up before either of us die

[Marquis]

And ftr: I will believe the Sun is actually a strong light bulb before I believe the mod decided to make 3 townies unkillable and give them extra voting powers. Thank you very much.

This is setup salt trying to lynch the town players he can't answer.

I'm not sold 100% on JJD scum, I really do think he could be town focusing on the wrong thing


I'm more interested in whether Kagami and Flavor and the lurkers are town or scum motivated. Because while I've seen a lot from Kagami, and a lot that's surface level active and smart and helpful, it's still unclear to me if their posts are coming from a town mindset. For example chennis' posts do give off that vibe of town trying to solve the game, whereas even with all the helpful commentary and setup analysis, I'm not getting any sense of that from Kagami. It's all agreeable, sure, but it's only just that.

I'd very much like to focus on Flavor rn but for people wondering why Kagami's near the bottom of my list, there.


Whether Bingle has bamboozled both me and Vecna I think is irrelevant to the current gamestate. All 3 of us have fairly strong reasons to believe we're all town after Night 1 hood discussion. If you have a strong townread on either of me or Vecna that should really be enough for now until we have to revisit it. None of us are the play today.

[Marquis]

My conclusions from D2 play and postings so far:

• Scum vig is still ridiculous and I hate anyone jumping through hoops to try and make the moonlogic work
  
• Flavor did not kill Fish, but is being purposefully unclear on the matter. He ignored Pops wanting a hard claim and used DOL asking to pivot onto a scumread there.
  
• Flavor as either alignment knows he has a reputation for fakeclaiming as town. I don't doubt Flavor as scum would take advantage of this to get an early mislynch on what he sees is an actual vig.
  
• a scum!Flavor gets to have the best of both worlds here, straddling the line between the idea that his town vig claim is legit in a game with 2 nightkills, and the idea that if he isn't really a vig he's just town trying to bait the scum kill
  
• There isn't a world in which we can let this continue as is unpunished, and getting this done now also clears up the gamestate while we're ahead

Alternatively, unless Flavor is somehow telling 100% truth (lol), we plead for the vig to shoot Flavor tonight, but I'm certain scum are expecting that and will be using whatever powers they have to make Flavor live whether he's town or scum. And considering Fish got vigged instead last night too.. idk man.

• agreed
  
• then as a town let's collectively not tolerate his bullshit here
  
• yeah
  
• also, yeah
  
• Idk. Just because FL is hard to read doesn't mean we should just "lol idc" lynch him. there are better lynches

To the last point - for value I disagree there are better lynches. I see everything else as shooting in the dark versus what we have from the vig counterclaim, vig mislynch, scum getting vigged, Flavor glossing over all the shit that just happened...
I don't trust town to not keep getting distracted by other shiny things, or me to come back to this later game after myself getting distracted by shiny things

[Marquis]

TOWN

Marquis
chennington
Vecna
Chandra
Day One Lynch
Bingle

ENOUGH TOWNISH VIBES TO NOT LYNCH

Pine
popsinctown

NULL TO NULLTOWN - CAN WAIT

PenguinPower
Judge Joseph Dredd

NEEDS TO BE SORTED/LYNCHED

ofrhz
Croag
Kagami
Flavor Leaf



re: "deepwolf" - my lists are never meant to be end-all be-all but rather where I think we'd get the most value focusing our Day 2 lynch on

[Marquis]

i hate this whole meta of this person spams words in this thread so they are immediately town/lets not lynch them but someone is absent and they HAVE TO BE LYNCHED TO GET MORE INFO

i think a wolf is hiding in one of these posters who posts frequently

VOTE: pops

good way to say nothing

Really? I actually felt it was a pretty town sentiment
Tbh whenever Croag comes in I get some mildly to strong town vibes that kind of dissipate by the next time he arrives

I don't think I want to lynch him today either

[Marquis]

because i feel more strongly that bingle could be wolf

Chennis can we look elsewhere today
Both Vecna and I have hood discussion related reason to tentatively call all of our hood town

[Marquis]

I also townread Croag so time to look elsewhere

[Marquis]

I'm still not 100% sold on FL scum or town but I think either way the slot can't live past d3.

My lynch pool: Flavor Leaf, otfvz, Kagami, JJD

...but why not Kagami? I feel like I've seen a bunch of people throw out scumreads or null reads on them but no commitment or discussion about them. I'd imagine if they were town there'd be a few townreads there, since they were present and making sizable posts for a good part of d1, and it just feels like despite all that there isn't anything that sways me toward a townread.

[Marquis]

When you guys say you TR Croag, are you willing to never lynch that slot in this game?

Nah but whether intentionally or unintentionally, it feels like this town is very hungry for lurker blood. But out of the inactives I find that when Croag

does

show up usually their posts feel like they're likely coming from town mindset.

Flavor Leaf flipped scum and was a fairly constant presence. And out of the less actives like Kagami and Penguin why is everyone focusing on osrhz and Croag more? Because people keep talking about them, I feel like it's kind of a self fulfilling scumread circle at this point.



So I'm not misunderstood: my townlean on Croag is partially because I've felt their posts as very relatable and sounding like what I'd have said in their position (it kind of was what I said myself when inactive and getting run up), and partially because the way we have many less-active slots and yet Croag is the one being focused over and over feels like a red herring.

[Marquis]

VOTE: Kagami

[Marquis]

Do you have to suddenly make me dislike my own wagon

[Marquis]

jfc this wagon is fine but I want FL blood

[Marquis]

I think d1L is town genuinely trying to learn and figure things out

think the same of croag but more strongly

JJD is insufferable

if there's a deepwolf in my scumreads it's Vecna but he's still a better town pick than the others

I can now see Pine being scum it felt strangely like scum whining moreso than town whining. Like the kind you do when talking and bitching about the gamestate is your chosen form of relatable content. I do feel inactive scum would come in assuming it's a relatable thought that the gamestate is a mess when honestly I think we're all feeling pretty good about one scum being down and a pretty decent selection of likely town players. I also think putting a parity cop in a hood with two scum is such a fuckin Fakegod thing to do.

I want to rip FL's head off.

My best bets for town based on play and discussion and trying to discern motivations would be Chennis, Chandra, Croag, then D1L and Vecna. Or put Vecna at the top idk. Right now Vecna is making catch-up posts that kind of give me the vibe they're just for the sake of catch-up. I still think he's town. But I'm starting to think Bingle is getting to be a stronger townread. Oh yeah put Bingle somewhere there too. Oh wait I remembered hood discussion on Fish yeah Vecna is def town. I was going to lynch Fish today Vecna convinced me...

[Marquis]

my townlean on Croag is partially because I've felt their posts as very relatable and sounding like what I'd have said in their position (it kind of was what I said myself when inactive and getting run up),

I very much agree, Here's proof:

554 500+ posts in and "I didn't read shit". That's rich.
562 So you helped with the catch up. Can you also help me read the setup?
1503 1000 posts later: I am going to catch up. Why would I lie to you?
1557 I am not making a statement that could be used against me later. I love this fence.
1559 I am doing the same thing I did as scum but here I am not scum. Scouts honour.
1562 Am I outed yet?
1563 I will soft defend but leave the room open.
1568 Genuine responses are genuine. Right?
1570 I'm tired of this BS. Someone explain (but I am in the process of catching up, I promise)
1571 I have no idea so I'm just going to throw in an unsubstantiated guess with no reasoning at all.
1576 Can Mafia be in the same hood, so we can lynch them all once the first of them exposed?
1829 I am doing too much already, so let me quote myself.
1830 I won't repeat what I "didn't say". Take a wild guess.
1831 A stance. YAY! I know it goes against what I was preaching, but you should be grateful I voted.
1843 Read? Who does that?
1844 I can pull reads out of my arse. I just haven't done it yet.

Oh, GOD! I got both pissed and bored by the time I got to this point. Someone please pick up from there and help me demonstrate how relatable Croag's ISO is. Please and thank you.

croag's d2 posts were relatable to me because i was in the same situation and feeling the same way d1, I just had the luxury of a good claim post that dissolved the stupid lurker wagon on my slot.

if you are ever playing the game of mafia assuming town players are always playing perfectly or all playing at the same commitment level as you, you are playing the wrong game. that's what I want to say to you if you're town here.

like this was a total waste of your time my time everyone's time. 100+ words that only amount to an "ackshually" and it really pisses me off when people on this site speak with such a fucking condescending voice. get real.

[Marquis]

VOTE: Pine I'm down. disliked how kagami wagon felt too easy to get

[Marquis]

Sorry I don't wish to cooperate with you. Maybe I'm petty

[Marquis]

There's egg

All over my face rn

VOTE: Chandra

[Marquis]

Also I feel vindicated D1L is town as fuck

[Marquis]

Fish flipped Ninja Watcher.

Show me where that was said. I now believe this is a scumslip of the TMI type. HOW do you know Fish was a Watcher??

Also, worth noting - Fish flipped Ninja Watcher.

Uh, yeah, wtf?

If there's no explanation for this you're the lynch today.

pops reads like scum reacting to a partner fuckup lol

we'll see

[Marquis]

jfc

[Marquis]

VOTE: Flavor Leaf let's get this over with.

long overdue. and my POV is it's the last possible scumslot by POE. did a minor reread and now think orshz and jjd are likely town... i hope

[Marquis]

the scenarios where FL has played optimally have him with a red PM

you've put into words what I've felt ever since the vig 1v1.

[Marquis]

his play has consistently led to null-to-optimal gamestates for scum
whereas town has been left blue balled with nothing to show for the stuff he's pulled.

[Marquis]

Can we just lynch flavor leaf and free me of this mess

[Marquis]

im pretty sure this ends the game. let's just go ahead and end the game.

[Marquis]

well I could see pops with how she tried to shift d1 momentum between competing wagons and moved off fish for my lynch...

[Marquis]

I confirmed myself as town to Bingle last night.

[Marquis]

I confirmed myself as town to Bingle last night.

After the Chandra flip I had a 24 hour long spark of paranoia that Vecna was scum.

Then I reread his night 1 posts because I forgot that happened and was why he's a townlock for me.

These are town:
Marquis
Croag
chennisden
Day One Lynch

These are town enough to not be worth lynching on Day 3:
ofrhz
PenguinPower
Vecna
Bingle
Judge Joseph Dredd

and so I would say scum is in {FL, pops}.

[Marquis]

I don't care which goes first but I feel FL's the kind of slot you have to lynch now or else he makes it to endgame because there are always shinier things he can pull out of his ass to talk about.

[Marquis]

He's coasting but I don't see anything that makes it more likely scum coasting than town coasting and not caring.

So he's just town enough to get by. I don't attribute any scumpoints to non-presence in this environment.

[Marquis]

In other words: PP's effect on the game mainly via cop results has been slightly above net zero. which is better than FL's or your effects on the game which I see as net negative, whether from being incorrect, or more likely because one or both of you are scum motivated

[Marquis]

actually idk why I'm hiding it since I can't be rbed or killed anyway LOL I vigged kagami and I'm vigging whichever of you/FL doesn't die this day too

[Marquis]

I fully believe Chandra and Fish were meant to be endgame and FL was scum who took advantage of his fakeclaim meta to push a lunch through on someone he believed to be an actual town vig

Like

Stop with all the tinfoil hair shit this is just the simplest explanation for that day 1 bs

the only elephant in the room is FL somehow getting away with the numerous fakeclaims Including one he COMMITTED to strongly enough to cause us to MISLYNCH AN ACTUAL TOWN VIG

like think from my POV d1 you think these guys are both BSing so you wanna let it resolve itself but nope.

should have killed FL last night sorry kagami.

[Marquis]

Marquis, didn't you said you're shooting FL tonight?

Does it look like I want to waste time mislynching

[Marquis]

Are there 3 scum or 4 scum? Amount of players implies 4 scum

I've been operating off 3 scum bc FakeGod game and he thinks town are stupid (they are)

[Marquis]

I’m not fake claiming.

Marquis just scum claimed because he implied he thinks I’m town who fake claimed.

this is the same kind of extrapolation bullshit you pulled to get pelican mislynched LOL

[Marquis]

I thought there was a chance there was 2 vigs at first, then when Pel flipped town I kept changing my mind if there could be 3. I was pretty OK with just vigging FL night 2 to find out for sure, but then I changed my mind at the literal last second and it backfired.

And I don't think I could be possibly any more tired of this game so rather than replacing out or extending a phase hopefully we can just end it. I'm also super paranoid that me claiming wasn't the right thing to do if scum secretly have a 1-shot way of getting past my hood passives and RBing me, or if FL is the bulletproof scum given this was designed with 2 town vigs. I can also see them having something but initially saving it for closer to endgame when we think our hood is all town and all safe after all this time, but deciding to use it on me.

[Marquis]

Long story short: I've been unsure of everything this game until FL got a lot LOT scummier feeling like he was cornered today first by pops and now by me. And taking a step back, I think the simplest solution that FL intentionally fakeclaimed as scum to mislynch the vig and get away with it off of meta is the right one.

[Marquis]

Hi guess I'm still here

I'll catch up tomorrow been busy

[Marquis]

Reading this page I guess people are trying to lynch me? okaaaaaaay hello ?

to be explicitly clear I vigged fish and kagami. if you reread me around the FL vs Pelican time you can tell how fucking weirded out I was about that situation. and d2 after fish flipped scum to a nightkill and FL seemed to want to ride the towncred without being explicit about it, that was annoying as fuck and absolutely still my preferred lynch.

VOTE: Flavor Leaf

And since it's all out I'm a 2 shot compulsive vig. Aka we're the hood with forced power and caffeination early game with the power disappearing quickly as the game progresses. Which is the only thing that makes sense in conjunction with how our hood immunity mechanics work

How is lynching a vig who killed scum when nobody else could have the mechanically optimal option. what the hell

[Marquis]

If I vigged my scumpartner to bus n1 why the fuck wouldn't I claim it immediately day 2 being unkillable and unroleblockable

this makes no sense

FL or JJD has to be scum here.
Are either of them alts?

[Marquis]

I can't really see either of Vecna or bingle being scum, only both of them at once

but I think its a 3 man scumteam with the 3 or higher possible kills p night

[Marquis]

I can't really see either of Vecna or bingle being scum, only both of them at once

but I think its a 3 man scumteam with the 3 or higher possible kills p night

Wait, so youre telling me you think its a 3person scumteam that has to rely on town to outright suck? Or that scum have vigs themselves? I dont get this post.

I think a game of this size with 4 scum and 3+ KPN at any point is too swingy. I don't think FakeGod would design this with 4 scum and am thinking there's only one left.

I can see you and Bingle both being scum, but I'm not wholly sold on either of you being scum independently. After all it's not like the early game mayor powers are gamebreaking. If you're both scum, any scummy use of that would draw scrutiny.

The main thing making me think this is how end of day 2 felt like scum theater around hammering and ending day before scum Chandra was forced to post or town Croag was able to post.

[Marquis]

Marquis is scum slipping all over the place.

If Marquis was actually a Vig, a 3 man scum team could be killed Night 1 by all the vigilantes

???????????????????????????????



i wish i knew earlier u were either scum or just plain paranoid town
i hate that i'm not 100% certain what it is because i'm assuming you're a cocky enough scumplayer to think you can act as insane as your play this game has been and get away with it

yes i think there's 3 scum. i think that vigs are inherently antitown especially when forced to shoot with low information, and in this game further scum's secondary win condition doing so. if you're really a town vig that's 4 kills per night which are most likely to hit town with a good chance of hitting uncaffeinated town. but i don't think you're a town vig after every bs claim and play you've made this game and i feel like you're finally doubling down on this one because it's what will keep you safest.

overall i'm pretty sure scum, me, and perry were the only nightkillers? plus cpr doctor. so yeah wait that's still 4 potential kpn.

i'm like 90% sure we're looking for one remaining scum. why are we even arguing this. more town power roles does not mean higher town win ratio. all it means is too many cooks.

you've also been pushing me and bingle all game is what it feels like. sorry you can't nightkill us? i'm not happy either because i still have to put up with this

[Marquis]

starting to feel like mafia bc i want everyone who isnt me dead. thatd solve it

[Marquis]

Is it scummy to say idc if he's really scum or not anymore but FL needs to be gone anyway

if he's not scum he's just horribly annoying/bad town who will be left alive and probably try to lynch me in LYLO
This is aggravating


I'm not saying Vecna can't be scum, btw. But his reasoning makes no sense, his constant pivots and flip flops only serve to distract town and point in any direction besides himself, and also his ego isn't making any friends to say the least. It is not pleasant to engage with or read this player at all.

That in itself isn't a reason to lynch him, but the fact is: scum will not kill FL. town is hesitating to lynch FL. and whatever his alignment is, I know for a fact that if left alive he will contribute or cause a town loss.

As much as I've been waffling as of late due to that horrible self righteousness, I don't see another realistic option here, sorry.

[Marquis]

I was prodded. Inhumane

[Marquis]

This is one of those situations where I think I've said all I can

If it's not FL then I'll regroup but I don't think anyone else's lynch will be as much of a net positive

[Marquis]

i don't like ANY of u rn and thats the tea

[Marquis]

i also consistently forget pp is in this game

[Marquis]

as far as i'm concerned i'm the only obviously town one and all of you can be scum depending on the lens through which i look at this setup and game. like. i am incredibly hesitant to do ANYTHING rn because even if 1 scum left i feel this is absolutely the tipping point and im scared

[Marquis]

ok bingle has a fair point on vecna and him being the 2 uncaffeinated ones here

[Marquis]

i still dont like outing that we're killable
but yes confirmed

i havent been able to decipher what kind of scum believes that all game unless its jjd, or unless one of bingle/vecna never killed in the hood to pocket me

[Marquis]

who did kagami investigate night 1?

[Marquis]

it really feels like jjd is town here guys

[Marquis]

VOTE: bingle eh

[Marquis]

UNVOTE:

[Marquis]

but i've been ignoring penguinpower all game and it shows

[Marquis]

I'm useless and you all are scaring me

[Marquis]

I'll read by Monday

[Marquis]

v/la until endgame, shoot jingle a pm if there’s another dayphase.

can you really not. if you're town this helps nobody

[Marquis]

jjd #2 is bs and u know it

[Marquis]

I'm uneasy with everything here.

[Marquis]

I think I still want to vote PP > Bingle > JJD here...

[Marquis]

Why can't JJD be scum alone here?

[Marquis]

Sorry. Dealing with stuff and legitimately forgot deadline was so soon. Would probably have voted Bingle earlier.

[Marquis]

I refuse to believe FL flipped town.

This happening made me back off and be unsure of everything. As much as I was preparing for it and being fatalistic...I really didn't expect it.