Mafia of Revelations ~ Game Over!

[farside22]

Spoiler: Revelation

Biden will pick Kamala and she will be the real nominee running for president

This would be the best news to get for 2020.
Hey all. Haven't seen some of you in some time. I already see a few I will have on auto ignore.

VOTE: iamausername

[farside22]

Because it has been too damn fucking long

VOTE: xRECKONERx

Yeah he would be one I would want to start some serious drinking before talking to. Regardless of his alignment he always gave me a headache.

[farside22]

I already see a few I will have on auto ignore.

Wait, is this a thing?

It is for me!

[farside22]

I already see a few I will have on auto ignore.

Wait, is this a thing?

It is for me!

No, I mean like a site feature?

No. I think that would be a bad feature on MS. Can you imagine as it is the number of people that barely read the game and post made, now just push auto ignore and vote randomly.

*shudder*

[farside22]

Oh yeah? We're just gonna let anyone in our alliance with no screening?

How about we call our alliance The Welcome Center?

Yes!! --wait. is that a jab at my overwillingness to ally?

Morning Tweet and I have formed an alliance, Albert and Morning Tweet have formed a separate alliance, trilateral negotiations underway to consolidate our two empires

oh okay you have a point. Relations are going to become complicated quickly. i still extend an open team invitation to all cute players and will make it my first order of business to unite our many alliances

[farside22]

Just a word of warning MT. I maybe cute but I can get stubborn at times.

[farside22]

ABR and Agar and MT are scum; the ABR-MT alliance should be called the half-scumteam alliance.
Blair is town. I kneejerked Baltar as town but he is probably scum too.
Everyone else is town enough so I think we win now.
Well, assuming 13-4.
VOTE: Albert B. Rampage

Can you explain why you think those 3 are scum?

Hello! I've heard of a lot of names on this list

As a representative of the "young blood" on this site I feel somewhat obliged to catch y'all up to the latest site meta.

Not too long ago, we discovered that Day 1 scum lynches actually lead to more town losses than town lynches! While it's counter-intuitive, it's been speculated that perhaps town cannot carry the same momentum after the first lynch, and it's harder to catch smaller numbers of scum. The obvious trend then was to lynch townsfolk instead... but someone eventually did point out that it's silly to lose a townsfolk just to increase town's chances of a win. There was a clever solution hiding in plain sight though, which would require no town death...

VOTE: No Lynch

I know jigsaw game we lynched scum day 1 and it went downhill from there, but how does a no lynch help give any info?

[farside22]

Reck is my bbf I cba to vote him rn

vote porkens

lol IDGAF ama

I see I will being doing a lot of this, this game:

ABR's ISO reads like statement of fact -> alliance a buddy -> highly impersonal accusation. Scum like doing all of these things.
Statements of fact feel safe and impersonal accusations feel safe and scum want to feel safe.
Alliancing / early accusations are common motions; scum usually go through common motions rather than exploring.

Scum have trouble evenly mixing interactions with other scum to interactions with town.
Players chatted up or voted by scum at dawn on the first day are therefore more likely to be scum than anyone else.
This applies to Baltar who also has an awkward are-you-scum-welcome, MT with content-free cutification and Agar who did 'vote -> briefly talk to buddy about nothing -> leave for a while.'
I don't like MT's reaction to being caught either.

Auro showed up with a purely distracting composed statement of 'fact' as well, then stuck to it instead of doing anything useful.
Will review a couple of their other games at some point to see if they are a refuge-type.

I'm taking a lot of these pages as NAI. People look excited to be playing and I know I'm happy to see people I haven't played with in awhile. Also I have seen games where players look to create bonds early but it is scum and town that do it, so I'm not taking much of it seriously.
Adds llama to town list.

[farside22]

Ok I'm rushing this post before my phone dies but

Vote ABR

I feel like he's forcing himself into the alliance. I also don't like farside and Starbuck pushing the "I'm cute" thing. Auto seems to be trying too hard to play up being new but I'm not sure there's really an advantage to it because it's not the VI card. And Porkens' is likely town for the role PM thing. Hoopla also looks town.

How is ABR forcing into an alliance? He was the first player to suggest an alliance here.
Where do you see Auro trying to play up being new?

[farside22]

VOTE: kmd

[farside22]

Ok I'm rushing this post before my phone dies but

Vote ABR

I feel like he's forcing himself into the alliance. I also don't like farside and Starbuck pushing the "I'm cute" thing. Auto seems to be trying too hard to play up being new but I'm not sure there's really an advantage to it because it's not the VI card. And Porkens' is likely town for the role PM thing. Hoopla also looks town.

How is ABR forcing into an alliance? He was the first player to suggest an alliance here.
Where do you see Auro trying to play up being new?

Oh I missed that post. I thought hoopla had suggested it .

Auro's second line of the game was claiming to be a representative of young blood on the site.

Unvote, Vote Starbuck

I'm pretty sure that was a tongue in cheek comment in regards to how old many of the players in the game are. I didn't take it as a newb comment. Why would you think he could get away from doing that when a players date is available to see?

I feel like he's forcing himself into the alliance.

Forcing...? I came up with the whole idea!

It's not that town wouldn't say this, but it's definitely exactly what scum would say. Vindicating statements of fact are scum's favorite.

[farside22]

A vindicating statement of fact is both safe and makes them look more town.
So mafia is always going to make that post. Town are going to say something like that too, but it's more likely to branch and have other pieces too than the scum version.

I'm going to say hard no to this. It's pretty NAI, like if a player says nothing they look scummy, if they do they are scummy? On a personal level I feel a player ignoring me tends to come from scum with something to hide.

Do you have any specific terms in mind? I can't recall any which are too recent.
Also, mafia specific, right?

No, I know abbreviations (I'm actually listed in the official MS one on the Wiki). I'm talking like game specific terms like I know sheeping and pocketing, but wolfing/open wolfing is kinda new to me. I know there's another new term or two that I've seen that I'm not sure of.

I also don't like farside and Starbuck pushing the "I'm cute" thing.

My one post about it is pushing? That's a stretch and a weird one at that. In any case, I was just stating a fact.

Spoiler: Because I am

https://www.instagram.com/p/B1R8IKkh8hC ... _copy_link

When you called yourself adorable you don't think that could be taken as wanting to be in the cute alliance? What was the purpose in that post then? Just completely random?

I'm pretty sure that was a tongue in cheek comment in regards to how old many of the players in the game are. I didn't take it as a newb comment. Why would you think he could get away from doing that when a players date is available to see?

Exactly. It seemed like a weird thing to open with when it was going to be obvious anyway. Like I said, I don't see any advantage to be gained from it so it was probably just an elephant in the room kind of comment.

Gotta say this is very reachy.

[farside22]

farside, I didn't answer your question: did that not bother you?

I thought about it, then forgot when I was reading kmd.
So apparently it didn't bother me. But since your asking why did you change your mind from NL to voting a player?

I feel like he's forcing himself into the alliance.

Forcing...? I came up with the whole idea!

LOL

I lightly like Kmd just totally missing posts cause i associate not reading the thread carefully more with town

I'm at work. I'll do meta when it becomes worth the time.
I have little doubt the cuteness emphasizers tend to do it in other games.
That's why it bothers me that MT is going about their cuteness as if it's a mission, whereas the CLAP cuteness is more 'this is just how this player carries themself.'

This is a first for me trying to buddy all the cute players, if that's what u mean. it's hard because there's so many!

I don't get the connection between: "Morning probably does this in other games" therefore -> "This is why it bothers me that she's going about it like a mission"

why? Usually i dont take it this far but i decided this would be my sort of opening gimmick after ABR asked me what our alliance should be themed and i saw Hoopla say she's cute or something

Pedit: Okay, i see now -- i disagree that it's scummy for me though. I like having fun in RVS and i don't usually try to read too closely into the first bunch of pages. I can tell you that my actual readslists aren't going to factor cuteness levels in.... too heavily.....

Huh, you know at first I was about to disagree and then I realize I'm really bad about reading the whole thread or a whole post from players. I will say that I don't find kmd's follow up really inspiring right now.

[farside22]

Town
Llama
Farside
Porkens
Starbuck

Green Crayons
Blair
Hoopla
CLAP
Reck
UT
iau
MT
Baltar

Agar
Auro
KMD
ABR

The idea is scum feel a need to do something, and being cute is something to do, like a mission. CLAP's version seemed less goal-oriented.

Posts an entire list of reads in basically RVS. "Scum feel a need to do something"

Well here we are!

Why are you voting MT?

So apparently it didn't bother me. But since your asking why did you change your mind from NL to voting a player?

NL post was a joke, current site meta most definitely doesn't involve D1 NLs.

It didn't read like a joke. Was there a point to it?

[farside22]

I feel like tag teaming with porks on asking questions to players.

[farside22]

It didn't read like a joke. Was there a point to it?

Humor but maybe it was inappropriate
I like screwing around at the start of the game, just a thing I do? Mafia is pointless anyway :3

ouch.

Kmd less scummy, reck a bit more.

Intrigued.

Why are you voting MT?

Because his posting seems the most contrived.

I must be missing something. All I've seen is MT talk about gathering a cute alliance and then being asked about it. Is that reading contrived for some reason? Am I missing something in that?

[farside22]

@marble: v interested why i'm scummy off 5 RVS joke posts

Me too. It's sort of a PoE "one of the players I'll have difficulty reading will probably be scum so I shouldn't have them all as high on the list as I do; Reck fits reasonably well as the scum from those"

I just have a lot of null reads, with a few splashes of town reads so far.
Nothing really strikes me as much as kmd just for weak read on SB

[farside22]

I dont really see anything new from hoopla that adds anything to the convo.

Ebwop: pork stile my thunder.

VOTE: hoopla

[farside22]

Yall are gonna have to explain why that's a scum post from Hoopla. Looked like she was just posting her thoughts.

Just looks like filler. I don't see much that hasn't been said by others so it's just a surface level post. Also Hoopla looks to be budding Llama from that post.

Is there something that seems insincere about it?

There were like 6 posts on it. Seems very try-hard for a mediocre joke.

We were still in RVS, but I can't imagine being THAT committed to that bit.

I just thought MT was joking. I never took the any of it seriously. I don't even see MT caring on with that thought process as serious.

don't know how to respond to this sort of criticism. Is there something that seems insincere about it? Sure i couuuld be playing a gimmick so i don't have to pretend to scumhunt or so i can "avoid scrutiny", but also i could just as easily try to fake a bunch of reads and put on my towniest face if i were scum

is there a specific reason you think that's what's happening here?

pedit: your intutition is off then !

one of the lamentable things about intuition is converting those subconscious rumblings into words. here's an attempt:

opening games tend to fragment into themes - jokers/questionnairers/wagoners etc. alliance crafting/cuteness riffing seemed like the dominant theme on page 1. i expect that scum upon observing the main narrative, tend to play along with it, as its the safest entry into the game. the continued adherence to the established running joke being an exercise in avoidance. a shield, if you will.

I like it too.

Now pounce! Who’s going along to get along?

I'm going to be the hard disagreeing person in this room. I just felt that it was NAI. Till I see something more that gives me insite into Hoolpa I'm not moving just yet.

like it too.

Now pounce! Who’s going along to get along?

on a reread, i think auro found a comfortable niche in baiting llamarble into theory-based back-and-forths. during the whole sequence, llamarble was posting reads and appearing to improve his interpretation of the game, while auro was pontificating aimlessly.

another shameful display of avoidance. 25 posts in his ISO and i'm still none-the-wiser as to where he stands on anyone.

So why not push him if your feeling this way? Or push those you don't have reads on?

who started the cuteness thing?

MT

[farside22]

I find myself agreeing more with Blair

VOTE: iamausername

[farside22]

VOTE: Auro
Honestly you have a certain similarity of way of thinking to mine. And 275 is pure early-mid d1 scum me.

this actually may be the first misstep. can you explain this?

on first parse, it read well to me.

Tell me where in that post his vote on gc makes sense.

[farside22]

VOTE: Auro
Honestly you have a certain similarity of way of thinking to mine. And 275 is pure early-mid d1 scum me.

this actually may be the first misstep. can you explain this?

on first parse, it read well to me.

Tell me where in that post his vote on gc makes sense.

[farside22]

@farside

i have no qualms with auro jumping on the wagon. i mean, he was probably too late to gain any town cred - that was snapped up by the early adopters.

but if you have a problem with it, why aren't you asking him yourself?

You were fine with his response. I wanted to understand why when his words don't match his vote so why is it fine to vote GC when he stated suspicion elsewhere?

[farside22]

I have too many scumreads to do PoE now. Wait I lied I have 4 of them and life is good.

Most probable scumteam:
Auro Reck GC IAAU?

Baltar
UT
MT
ABR
Agar
CLAP

Starbuck
KMD
Blair
Hoopla

Porkens
Farside
Llamarble

Order within groups probably imperfect.

That is the strangest list......is that scum to town list?

Well the IAAU one is simple. There are two posts there and his vote is the kind of minor inconsistency scum go for.
GC has a more developed ISO of different stuff, but most recently 305 calls a bunch of people suspicious and disappointing without really doing anything.

Got to say I'm just not a fan of a few of those on the wagon.

[farside22]

Before i forget. Auro why did you vote gc?

[farside22]

Blair who are IAAU's buddies? Who definitely isn't IAAU's buddies?

It's early to partner hunt him, but if I had to, I would expect at least one on-wagon early bus and at least one off-wagon detractor.

On-wagon: Could be VP Baltar. He felt the need to over explain why he was sheeping me. Could denote self consciousness.

Off-wagon: Porkens or Llamarble. Porkens took a direct stab at the wagon based on IIAU's post count. Llamarble indirectly did the same by bringing it up under the guise of helpfully describing the wagon.

Thats hard to even see.
I have auro/hoopla/iiau so far as scum.


@sb:what are your current scum reads and why?

[farside22]

in fact UNVOTE: VP Baltar
VOTE: Auro

how can it be that he has posted six full length novels in this thread and i still have no idea why he is voting GC?

This is the one thing I feel. Talk me through a few of your reads with reasons.
Curious more about the sb read.

[farside22]

Before i forget. Auro why did you vote gc?

Primarily because I like adding to wagon momentum. I would have voted Blair earlier instead of the NL if I wasn't making a dumb joke.

Thats pretty weak. I remember you as TH having some good views and then in animal upick you hydra in that and pushed scum reads there as well.

VOTE: auro

[farside22]

Thats pretty weak. I remember you as TH having some good views and then in animal upick you hydra in that and pushed scum reads there as well.

Which parts of my views are bad? Just the view that "adding momentum to a growing wagon on early D1 is good", or any of my townreads, or anything else?

I was a lurker in Animal U-Pick: I called out at least two scum and voted them, but didn't really attempt to gain wagons on either. Do you disagree with this assessment of my play there?

i mean, UT is late to the party, but he's voicing the same suspicion, just not directed at anyone specifically:

Well the IAAU one is simple. There are two posts there and his vote is the kind of minor inconsistency scum go for.
GC has a more developed ISO of different stuff, but most recently 305 calls a bunch of people suspicious and disappointing without really doing anything.

We caught two scum in the first 10 pages? Well that was easy!

I'm kind of surprised Reck and Puppy are such wallpaper this game. Not really what I was expecting from either

im lurking, mafia philosophy is kinda boring and i don't feel like inventing some strong takes so i can effortpost with the big boys

I'll tell you a secret: a lot of times when people post a lot of words it's because they have nothing to say

there's a fine line to walk between explanation and obfuscation. a lot of the previous pages falls into the latter category

tbf, I think UT's invocation of the suspicion is actually suspicious in itself because of how unobtrusive it is.

UNVOTE: xRECKONERx
VOTE: Blair

I'm still not liking that policy push.

Sorry, which policy push from Blair? The game is a bit of a haze.

The whole thing about voting IAUN for only having 2 posts, but simultaneously ignoring UT and AGar. All 3 have less posts than the mod, but it's still early Day 1-ish, so I don't get it.

UNVOTE: xRECKONERx
VOTE: Blair

I'm still not liking that policy push.

My vote on IIAU is pretty clearly not a policy push. You have me confused with someone else.

How is Post 338 not policy?

She voted IAAU because IAAU based their vote on the kind of dubious inconsistency scum tend to base their votes on.

Now I get why Blair was frustrated...

why is "making an assumption" about IAUN scummy in this case? if you were blair and made posts 244 and 245 wouldn't it be weirder to cast shade and not vote than vote?

I just think assumptions aren't a good premise for scumhunting. It may be a playstyle difference. I feel it's more town to ask someone to elaborate than to just put words in their mouth and cause a ruckus when your concerns could be addressed fairly easily if you ask. Accompany those questions with a vote, absolutely, but the lack of questions is more concerning to me than the vote itself.

I could name about 3 or 4 other players doing just that. I don't see it as a reason to scum read a player. Even Iam said his vote was bad, sooooo????

[farside22]

Sigh. One day I will commit to preview post.
I had a lot more to say and just lost focus.

Auro: I recall in the game you were pushing chemist day 1 pretty hard. I recall the vote on votato as well but you had reasons I thought for each of those pushes. Not lol wagon ho.
So of the quotes above where already responding to my thoughts toward SB with llama's post 397

[farside22]

I could name about 3 or 4 other players doing just that. I don't see it as a reason to scum read a player. Even Iam said his vote was bad, sooooo????

Adding to the momentum of a wagon early D1 doesn't need me to necessarily scumread the person, no?

That's not the same thing SB is talking about. SB is talking about blair's push on IAM without asking questions.
I still have no clue why you think GC is scum.

[farside22]

The way Auro voted GC and then later repeatedly expressed zero shame about pressure voting also fits that refuge in audacity mold.

I could name about 3 or 4 other players doing just that. I don't see it as a reason to scum read a player. Even Iam said his vote was bad, sooooo????

Adding to the momentum of a wagon early D1 doesn't need me to necessarily scumread the person, no?

Before i forget. Auro why did you vote gc?

Primarily because I like adding to wagon momentum. I would have voted Blair earlier instead of the NL if I wasn't making a dumb joke.

Thats pretty weak. I remember you as TH having some good views and then in animal upick you hydra in that and pushed scum reads there as well.

Which parts of my views are bad? Just the view that "adding momentum to a growing wagon on early D1 is good", or any of my townreads, or anything else?

I was a lurker in Animal U-Pick: I called out at least two scum and voted them, but didn't really attempt to gain wagons on either. Do you disagree with this assessment of my play there?

I expect better from Auro. I've seen him be more serious and less...................VI/gooby in the games I reference. Like I've seen waiting more but again this was him within a hydra.
The only scum reference I have is a mini game he replaced in where most of the game he just asked questions and didn't really produce much and spammy one liners. The only plus I can give him here is that he had a town list with content. But as I said I've seen him push on his scum reads more.

[farside22]

Like I've seen waiting more but again this was him within a hydra.

This feels disingenuous when I think more about it:

You tried to claim or at least implied that that's a good representative of my play and thus different from here. I pointed out that I lurked and didn't do much (I did have my votes consistently on scum, but lalala hindsight).

Your reaction then was to continue to double down on that argument by then treating that game as somewhat similar to my play here but dismissing it as "him within a hydra".

It feels like instead of actually discerning what could cause a change in my style, you're tunneling on the *didn't achieve expectations* argument anyway.

Well your post is different. The only reference I have playing with you was when you were in a hydra and I would say you were less spammy in the hydra then you are here. I remember Animal Upick was goofy for a bit but that was the majority being goofy. When Double Day happened that went pretty quickly less goofy. So I typically see you going where the game goes instead of like this.

[farside22]

Just waiting to see if you will scum hunt or continue this way auro. Till i see a solid goid scum read coming from you that is less sheepy I will stay where I at.

[farside22]

I'm having a hard time finding anything to focus on in this game. Can someone offer me some direction in terms of post to read that are especially scummy (inb4 this post). I want to contribute but every time I start reading my eyes cross and I lose consciousness. I just don't even really know where to start

OMG I thought it was just me. I probably should try to read at 5:30am, but I thought about this game last night and today I'm going to get a notebook together like I did before. It seems to help me sort people better.

[farside22]

Some of the votes on VP come from players I haven't seen say much in regards to this game and are sheeping along (like Iam and UT). I'm staying the hell away from it.
I will say within regards to UT if he continues the lurking I would vote for him. He only gets a free pass for day 1.

[farside22]

how in the fuck am I sheeping

Yeah I forgot about your large post. Sorry.
I really do need to work on my individual reads.

[farside22]

Well the IAAU one is simple. There are two posts there and his vote is the kind of minor inconsistency scum go for.
GC has a more developed ISO of different stuff, but most recently 305 calls a bunch of people suspicious and disappointing without really doing anything.

We caught two scum in the first 10 pages? Well that was easy!

I'm kind of surprised Reck and Puppy are such wallpaper this game. Not really what I was expecting from either

This is moderately scummy.

VOTE: VP Baltar

ABR: Can you explain why you found this scummy?

[farside22]

He only gets a free pass for day 1.

He shouldn't get a pass for day 1 either. VP Balter is an amazing bandwagon.

Remember how bad your reads were in all of our recent games.

Listen to me and vote VP Baltar.

You know I'm the worst when it comes to joining a wagon without a really good reason or I scum read the player.
I'll be a sport and check his Iso next though.

[farside22]

Okay so on the ISO of VP I found him to basically just sheep reads and have no follow through with pushing any reads. I don't even know why he voted Auro at this point and he pushed MT and dropped it, which looks for pretty freeking weak reasons.

VOTE: VPB

Completed my iso so I feel better with some reads.
Null to scum:
Agar
UT
Kmd
Auro
Iam
CLP
MT
VPB

[farside22]

VOTE: VPB

Completed my iso so I feel better with some reads.
Null to scum:
Agar
UT
Kmd
Auro
Iam
CLP
MT
VPB

you've been on my case most of the game - even listing me in your top 3 scumpicks in 360. all of a sudden i am no longer on your radar without any reason why your suspicion has subsided. why?

you also made these comments about the VPB wagon and its constituents in post 596:

Some of the votes on VP come from players I haven't seen say much in regards to this game and are sheeping along (like Iam and UT). I'm staying the hell away from it.
I will say within regards to UT if he continues the lurking I would vote for him. He only gets a free pass for day 1.

then in post 605, essentially changed your mind;

Okay so on the ISO of VP I found him to basically just sheep reads and have no follow through with pushing any reads. I don't even know why he voted Auro at this point and he pushed MT and dropped it, which looks for pretty freeking weak reasons.

VOTE: VPB

that was a rather sharp turnabout. can you explain your mindset in further detail given you didn't like the make-up of the wagon to begin with?

also, is your lack of suspicion on me now related to this?

I see you pushing your reads since that post instead of taking a back seat. As for my change I was feeling lost with all the infighting and felt myself glazing through the game. I missed ut longer post about vp. So i stepped back, grabbed my notebook and read things in iso to get a better grasp on player that where not in my town pile already.
Cant say i agree with you view on auro. He's pretty good at blending in as scum and hes also more thoughful in his posting then I see here.
The only person on the wagon i believe is IAM, but reading vbp in iso i found one post were he dropped his read on mt for no apparent reason pretty scummy. Then he weakly votes auro. So i see no sorting from him like ive seen from other.

[farside22]

VOTE: AGar
VP Baltar
CantLynchAPuppy*
Auro
Blair
farside22*
Albert B. Rampage

Why is vpb and abr both on this list?

[farside22]

VOTE: AGar
VP Baltar
CantLynchAPuppy*
Auro
Blair
farside22*
Albert B. Rampage

Why is vpb and abr both on this list?

sorry mod this was a quote not a vote. Please fix

I decline on principle. ~Vi

[farside22]

UNVOTE: MT
VOTE: iamausername

I just spent a game as scum fighting against Blair's instincts to save my team. No one in that game would really follow her and she screamed into the void for many pages. She ended up copping two of them.

Blatant sheep here. Come at me if you don't like it.

On-wagon: Could be VP Baltar. He felt the need to over explain why he was sheeping me. Could denote self consciousness.

I stan you and this is your response! rude af

unvote

Agree with VP + IAAU (I think if it's not GC, those two + Reck + Auro is best)

I got to say, I find this fringing on the point of silly and distracting.

Well the IAAU one is simple. There are two posts there and his vote is the kind of minor inconsistency scum go for.
GC has a more developed ISO of different stuff, but most recently 305 calls a bunch of people suspicious and disappointing without really doing anything.

We caught two scum in the first 10 pages? Well that was easy!

I'm kind of surprised Reck and Puppy are such wallpaper this game. Not really what I was expecting from either

im lurking, mafia philosophy is kinda boring and i don't feel like inventing some strong takes so i can effortpost with the big boys

^Town response.

I didn't create any sort of "empty calorie" discussion. The fact that you are assuming my motives without talking to me makes you look like an ass, not me.

not sure how you could see this as a personal sleight (that I'm somehow calling you an ass?), so inclined to think this is manufactured

This fight does strike me as odd.

Starbuck, do you find GC scummy or just irritating?

i'll have you know some wallpaper is fucking beautiful

If i could put a face with a wall, it would be yours <3

UNVOTE:

huh? explain.

huh? explain.

I gut-townread Green Crayons from his posts.

You're gonna have to do better than that.

Do you want to talk about any of my other reads I've given reasons for?

VOTE: auro

No. I would think you could actually give even a minor detail about what in your "gut" read pinged for you. I don't like the hand waving when asked a pretty simple question.

Phone posting so this isn't going to be pretty.

Reread vp long post he stated he switched read to follow blair and get a better read.
I dont see from his unvote and attitude towards blair after the sheeping as trying to figure blair out.
Then all vp said about auro was in the 2 quoted post, which is barely a reason to scum read or vote someone. Just looks like voting the next biggest wagon thats not his.

[farside22]

because there has to be some artificial inflation here in this group (aka, the bad ones, aka, those whose names shall not be spoken, aka SCUM)

*gasp*

...

overall, i like your take on your wagon. if you are town, i agree with where you view the potential manipulation has occurred. you also read my vote correctly. you're simply a player i haven't picked up any town tells from yet - this post being the first one i've liked.

thinking...

Why?
Granted i only read the first part and a few other things he said, but why do you like it?

[farside22]

Sorry i missed this question from MT.

I'll just ask one question-- is it related to the VP/Auro line you mention at the top?

I haven't really seen anything from you that showed scum hunting. You went into the cute mode and then defended the position. I don't see any scum reads or strong thoughts coming from you like I do others.

[farside22]

Now is when things start to get more interesting. Auro's vote and then quick abandonment is a HUGE scumtell. I was a mildly up and coming wagon and he saw that as he was facing pressure. His reason for voting me was "gut" townread on Green Crayons, whose wagon happened to be waning. I took time to give him an opportunity to explain something I was missing there, but clearly my initial twinge was right, hence the vote.

So this piqued my curiosity the most out of your wagon analysis. Can you tease it out more, because Auro jumped on to a VP vote and then seemed to get distracted by farside--rather than it appearing to reflect AI on his VP vote.

Vp comment about auro is pretty hypocritical considering he voted auro while his wagon was building.

[farside22]

Reread vp long post he stated he switched read to follow blair and get a better read.
I dont see from his unvote and attitude towards blair after the sheeping as trying to figure blair out.
Then all vp said about auro was in the 2 quoted post, which is barely a reason to scum read or vote someone. Just looks like voting the next biggest wagon thats not his.

i don't really agree with this. saying vpb has to do xyz to "try to figure blair out" makes it sound kind of like a homework assignment. i just played vpb and blair in the same game, i think vpb is approaching with a little caution and common sense, he's probably not working out this read with all the steps shown so the teacher can check for mistakes. so to me it looks like town thinking even if it's quiet thinking

VP was the one who said he was doing that in the first place in another game. So if he is doing it here for the same reason what did he gather from his reaction? Did it read like he saw a reaction that looked similar?
Since I'm bad at meta reading players I never played with, tell me why this reads like VP town and what his scum game is like from your prospective.

[farside22]

Just adding to this convo for a moment.

Is that a defense? I thought he was partnering Blair / ABR

I didn't see this as true at all. I would say Hoopla did more of the push starting here.
Nope. Point is ABR is reacting to me calling out his lack of scumhunting, so he moved into a more aggressive position. Really only mattered his vote was wasted at that time, not who it was on.

@ABR

do you have any thoughts on our two main wagons? seems weird of you to be posting during the formation of this battle and not bother addressing them at all.

I dont even start reading the game until page 25 these days.

Explain to me what's going on and I'll give you my opinion on it.

I'm not sure in what world VP thinks he started pushing ABR. I felt ABR started really reading here and imputing from this point and it didn't become a push on VP till his post about the 2 scum being voted on post.

[farside22]

This was my comment in regards to post 688.
I didn't see this as true at all. I would say Hoopla did more of the push starting here.

[farside22]

Spoiler:

UNVOTE: MT
VOTE: iamausername

I just spent a game as scum fighting against Blair's instincts to save my team. No one in that game would really follow her and she screamed into the void for many pages. She ended up copping two of them.

Blatant sheep here. Come at me if you don't like it.

UNVOTE: MT
VOTE: iamausername

I just spent a game as scum fighting against Blair's instincts to save my team. No one in that game would really follow her and she screamed into the void for many pages. She ended up copping two of them.

Blatant sheep here. Come at me if you don't like it.

Why you leave MT?

Eh, still felt like a bit of a forced interaction on her part, but maybe that's how she actually is.

I decided I'll just stan Blair instead.

Can I lure you guys into theory talk about how scum have higher cognitive load and don't recognize jokes easily

"Me scum. You no funny"

You mean like that?

Your no lynch suggestion was hella dumb and I would've voted you for it because it was hella dumb, but I don't think it was particularly AI given that it was a early (first?) D1 post.

You were actually going to vote over that?

I dont even start reading the game until page 25 these days.

Explain to me what's going on and I'll give you my opinion on it.

town heroine hoopla dazzled onlookers with a stunning moment of divine intuition, powering the wagon on GC-scum.

in response, shady antihero blair rustled up an uninspired counterwagon on lurking easy-target iamausername. her motivations? god knows.

You didn't explain anything and I still need to be explained gc and iamuser if you want my vote

You're on a wagon with MT. Is that a better explanation?

Another thing that I thought about while I was away was that VP never followed back up with MT and there read he had there. He says he is sheeping blair, says maybe that's just how MT is and then mades a comment to ABR that reads like he still finds MT scummy but I see no follow up or push there any more.
Like what happened to that read and why not follow up with it?

[farside22]

Spoiler:

UNVOTE: MT
VOTE: iamausername

I just spent a game as scum fighting against Blair's instincts to save my team. No one in that game would really follow her and she screamed into the void for many pages. She ended up copping two of them.

Blatant sheep here. Come at me if you don't like it.

UNVOTE: MT
VOTE: iamausername

I just spent a game as scum fighting against Blair's instincts to save my team. No one in that game would really follow her and she screamed into the void for many pages. She ended up copping two of them.

Blatant sheep here. Come at me if you don't like it.

Why you leave MT?

Eh, still felt like a bit of a forced interaction on her part, but maybe that's how she actually is.

I decided I'll just stan Blair instead.

Can I lure you guys into theory talk about how scum have higher cognitive load and don't recognize jokes easily

"Me scum. You no funny"

You mean like that?

Your no lynch suggestion was hella dumb and I would've voted you for it because it was hella dumb, but I don't think it was particularly AI given that it was a early (first?) D1 post.

You were actually going to vote over that?

I dont even start reading the game until page 25 these days.

Explain to me what's going on and I'll give you my opinion on it.

town heroine hoopla dazzled onlookers with a stunning moment of divine intuition, powering the wagon on GC-scum.

in response, shady antihero blair rustled up an uninspired counterwagon on lurking easy-target iamausername. her motivations? god knows.

You didn't explain anything and I still need to be explained gc and iamuser if you want my vote

You're on a wagon with MT. Is that a better explanation?

Another thing that I thought about while I was away was that VP never followed back up with MT and there read he had there. He says he is sheeping blair, says maybe that's just how MT is and then mades a comment to ABR that reads like he still finds MT scummy but I see no follow up or push there any more.
Like what happened to that read and why not follow up with it?

Are you asking me in earnest why I'm not questioning MT over the cuteness thing?

Are you saying that is the only reason you scum read MT? Because the last quote to ABR implies you still find MT scummy but aren't pushing a wagon there.

[farside22]

I think Auro is confusing people because he's scum playing pretty well.
He kept his vote movement from being too simple, gave reads and reasons and introspection, showed a bit of cheekiness.
The thing that's missing is the underlying attempt to actually figure out the game or signs of caring about directing the lynch toward scum.
And for his defensive methods, there is too much focus on 'your logic is bad or not presented.'

I linked the games I looked at so I can look at them again later if I need to.

I look forward to Auro's solve post.

This describes perfectly how i feel about auro. I see him asking players about a few people but i don't see anything that looks like an attempt to figure out those he finds scummy.

[farside22]

Morning Tweet & Blair, I'd like it if you both can revisit my earlier push on farside and give me your thoughts on it.

Link please?

You're not confused. I'm confused about you. As in, I have changed my mind on you a bunch of times.

Typo. Wanna talk about what makes me so enigmatic?

I was initially town reading you because I remember thinking we had a lot of similar takes and you seemed to be genuinely engaging with people.

Then a bunch of people agreed that the posts I liked were the scummiest posts in the game, and I assumed people knew you better than I did so I second guessed and if I squinted and tilted my head a little I could see what they meant.

Then I decided my heart wasn't really in it and I was probably right the first time. But I could still be wrong, for the same reasons.

Funny enough I don't see auro as town doing this. Hes usually more inquisitive and can be quiet rational. So until I see that player in the game my scum read on him stays. I think his push on me is basically omgus.

[farside22]

I don't know your meta, but if farside is correct she makes a good point against you. Do you have examples of playing this way as town?

Please review my interactions with farside.
And yeah, most of my town games this year

farside was making a reference to a certain game from which I'll paste a selection of quotes:

Spoiler:

Yeah I 180'd on my read on BnB

Y'all need me to gamesolve rn?

-Calvin

Blatant Scum, give me a tl;dr scumcase on Birds n Bees, please.

Too lazy to go back and read.

-Calvin

People are free to make cases on who they think are scum, in like 4/5 sentences or less. I will critically evaluate them and pick the D1 lynch accordingly.
This will be a fun day. Shoot!

-Calvin

Meanwhile
VOTE: Mastina



-Calvin

Gut

-Calvin

no

-Calvin

Skim leaves me with gut town on farside but I'll give a closer look to and maybe deconstruct it later, but we're nearing deadline and I dunno if it's worth being arsed about

-Calvin

I proceeded to vote for someone and give a reason, people sorta ignored it so I also said eff it, and compromised out of laziness.
Soooo it's kind of whack to compare my play here to that game and say I'm showing no attempt to figure out people who are scummy? But I was also a model town player in that^ game?

You haven't pushed anyone so laziness should not be a factor. Hell an attempt to put together a bunch of quote and calling a player some was the biggest thing you did in Animal Upick and you can barely do that without shit posting.

[farside22]

I not sure if I just noticed this or not but it seems like a few players are just shrugging their shoulders on who to scum read.
I mean if all else get some null reads out of the way to weed players out. If I'm wrong just ignore me.

[farside22]

There is a significant disparity between Porkens' sitewide activity and his activity here.

I'm learning more and more that is NAI. I hate to say that because I found it useful once upon a time but these days it really depends on the player. Like Mastina for sure would be scummy doing that in my eyes. But I do expect some better post to come from pork if he is town. He can be a wide range of different things. I've seen him chill and relax to goofy and spammy and both times that was him as town.
But if he is town he's got good instinct so I will see what he does or says before I judge him.

[farside22]

yes, i think scum have the tendency to do what is required of them, but few will go the extra-mile - so to speak - and attempt to look the most active/obvtown player in the game. there is actually risk in doing so on D1/D2. i used to attempt to play scum that way in my heyday, but if you obvtown too early as scum, then are alive on D4 onwards, you end up becoming a suspect anyway from a "why are you still alive?" angle.

You know who that player is in this game?

FOS: Morning Tweet

i think it's Can'tLynchAPuppy, Albert.

I'm leaning on both.

[farside22]

It's easy to be reasonable. You don't have people like AGar up your ass. You appease everyone. People feel bad voting you out.

What I'm interested in, is what do you believe that no one else believes? If you stand alone, what do you stand for?

If I'm scum, the way I would look at this game is who do I have to lynch and NK to achieve my win condition?

Hard to lynch: Albert B. Rampage, Untrod Tripod, farside22, Llamarble, Hoopla, Reck, Morning Tweet, Auro, VP Baltar
Would have difficulty climbing out of pressure: Blair, Green Crayons, Porkens
Would self-destruct under pressure: iamausername, Kmd4390, Starbuck, AGar, CantLynchAPuppy

I can't be lynched day 1 if I'm invested, I'm too strong and aggressive; Reck has a similar playstyle. I look around, and there's other really tough lynches for scum.

MT, Farside, and Blair tend to obvtown over time and easily become unlynchable.

Scum basically have 3 strategies they can use:

1) Going for low hanging fruit. Short term gain, safe option.
2) Go for the middle-of-the-road players to keep the easy mislynches for deeper into the game when they really need it.
3) If they feel extremely confident in their position, they can tunnel on the hard to lynch players while town runs up townies, stay out of the action, and only join the mislynch deep into the game if they have to save a buddy or can take out a threat to them.

I will now explain my counter-strategies. I think that going for an easy mislynch today is a waste. This lines me up in parallel with scum's 2nd and 3rd strategies.

I need the usual ingredients to best cook for you my game-winning solve: pressure, vote consolidation, and danger of reaching an early lynch.

If we run up a few hard to lynch players and gain precious information, we can draw out enough connections to set us up for successful subsequent days.

I should be put under self destruct. I've been pretty messy IRL so things said in game get me worked up lately.


@MT: I have you on my scum list due to your lack of reads. You just kind of look to be having general conversation without really looking for scum. You remind me more of scum trying to just buddy players without adding anything to the game that makes me go there is someone I can call town.

[farside22]

I mean he seems more concerned with looking town. High effort, but not detail-oriented. He's usually a stronger scumhunter than he's here. Could be an off game, could be scum. We need votes to find out.

I would not be surprised at all if this game is harder to get into for him. I suppose he could be scum but because of the likelihood that this is just a difficult game, it doesn't make me feel like he has any extra chances of being scum

VOTE: VP l-2

Why did you decide to vote VP?

Your votes on GC and farside are crap, your unvote on VP is crap.

And my GC vote was admittedly not because of any solid reasons, which I had retracted soon after.

I didn't unvote VP, I shifted.

I'll bite: why is my farside vote crap? She's pretty clearly misrepresenting meta, at least from her perspective of the games she's played with me.

How did I misrepresent it?

@auro: who on your wagon is scum?

I'm not using my wagon as a springboard to scumhunt. I do not think the results are particularly reliable. But: farside, VPB?

Calling a townread list fluff is nonsense. Saying I was inquisitive and amazing in that game I played with her is

I said more then that prior to that comment. It's nice to see you take one snippet of convo I said and use it as a platform.

I'll offer some free advice to y'all, especially people like AGar: not having committed scumreads is not a scumtell. Townhunting and PoE is a great technique which I've used successfully before, for example viewtopic.php?f=56&t=82629

Looking at who someone's willing to vote/wagon is sufficient. You don't want a town where everyone has their own pet scumread and is in full committed mode; work together.

farside is about as committed a scumread I'll get.

Also, engagement >> analysis at the beginning stages. Question first to get a better grasp of intentions, then use that to refine your read on actions.

(Looooookol @ the idea of lecturing this p-list on mafia play)

Your weak is fucking weak as hell. Did you go out of your way to just call one post scummy? Out of everything else said in this game you latch onto one fucking post while you do it shit post this whole game, where as I can link to Animal and DD and yes I realize you were in a hydra but there was a lot more thoughts in both fucking games compared to this. You are holding onto something that is minor and making it something more then it is.

VOTE: auro

[farside22]

Then why are you against his Lynch?

I'm not against his lynch I was about to vote there till ABR's threat and I found it more amusing not to.

And I'm calling BS to this. There has been a wagon on VP for sometime. I'd bet money you didn't think to ever vote him till you were called out on your lack of vote.
Also I find this behavior to be anti-town at best.

[farside22]

So I read through the day start. Didn't read what happened towards the end of the day yet. I started back to work so I'm a lot more busy now.
A few thoughts on SB's claim. I liked what Hoopla had to say but I think when you see ABR was killed last night that makes no sense for scum SB to do since he had a strong tr on her. Also I don't see anything scummy with SB.
I don't think everyone does soft tells when they have info but it would have been nice to see SB at least question players more with that info. I look at this as 1v1 since SB scum makes no sense to me given the NK and my read of her.

VOTE: Porkens

if i was capable of feeling emotions, that would be a sensational appeal to them. bravo, porkchop!

now lets hear farside's life story before we decide today's lynch.

My story is really depressing. My story is more starting from a person who was bored, grew to a tyrannical bitch and ended up with a emotional mess. I don't think people would like my story very much.

[farside22]

Clap: why did you feel the need to question sb comments further? What did she say that changed your views?

Pork: I didn't say ghosted just going to be less active. There is a big difference.

Reck: my take on vp vs auro was trying to sort through both of them in different ways. In the end auro reason for scum reading me was a big pile of bs that he was latching onto.

Just an fyi i had some info too, which was why I believed star. My info helps scum more then town tbf.

[farside22]

for the record, before Starbuck dropped her revelation, i was thinking a lynchpool of {Blair, Puppy, Morning Tweet, iamausername} was a very reasonable way for the day to go, following yesterday's events, with Blair being the choice from that pool that i'd be backing. i reread overnight in light of Auro's flip, and Blair very much comes off as scum expecting the day to drift inexorably to a VP Baltar lynch and panicking when ABR pulled the rug out from under her.

why blair? if blair was scum she could have done a lot more to push vpb instead of passively sitting by, do you think blair is the kind of person who would let a scummate die by passively sitting by? i kinda want to meet this alternate reality blair, she sounds nice

'passively sitting by' accurately describes Blair's behaviour right up until the point ABR shifted momentum from VPB to Auro, at which point Blair was suddenly very eager to push an ABR wagon.

i'm saying she was happy to let a

town

player (VPB) die by passively sitting by, where i think a town Blair who didn't think VPB or Auro were scum would have done a lot more to push, like, any alternative well before that point.

anyway, all of this is immaterial right now because we're either lynching Porkens or farside today.

VOTE: farside

495 is the one that stuck out the most to me in iso reads. it's like "hey buddy, here's what you need to do so i have an excuse to get off your wagon". her iso in general gives the impression that she really wants to vote for Auro but really doesn't want Auro to actually be lynched.
while Porkens iso, in general, gives the impression that he doesn't know what the fuck to think.

and i know which one i can relate to more as a town mindset.

Fos: iamausername

My problem was that he seemed to be suggesting that he wanted farside to flip (presumably expecting scum, per his vote), but then also still wanted investigations into Porkens and Starbuck.

I think 1411 cleared that up as a no.

This is what makes no sense about Clap at all. It serves as a waste of resources, unless clap wants to explain why she thinks thats necessary with a good reason.

[farside22]

Hey farside. I didn’t say you said you were ghosting - I said it was a good setup to ghost, but I’m glad you are not.

So the info you have makes starbuck look town. Hmm. What % confidence would you place in that?

My info is not like hers. It does say vt and in the pm it says i know x info in the game.

Just an fyi i had some info too, which was why I believed star. My info helps scum more then town tbf.

would revealing this information make it more likely we believe you to be town?

or are you planning on taking it to the grave?

Yes I will. I'm not good with helping scum.

[farside22]

Hey farside. I didn’t say you said you were ghosting - I said it was a good setup to ghost, but I’m glad you are not.

So the info you have makes starbuck look town. Hmm. What % confidence would you place in that?

My info is not like hers. It does say vt and in the pm it says i know x info in the game.

Just an fyi i had some info too, which was why I believed star. My info helps scum more then town tbf.

would revealing this information make it more likely we believe you to be town?

or are you planning on taking it to the grave?

Yes I will. I'm not good with helping scum.

Is this info helpful at all to town or just to scum?

I think it helps scum. It's role info is all I will say and that is all you will get from me.

At farside:

Hey farside. I didn’t say you said you were ghosting - I said it was a good setup to ghost, but I’m glad you are not.

So the info you have makes starbuck look town. Hmm. What % confidence would you place in that?

My info is not like hers. It does say vt and in the pm it says i know x info in the game.

In the event that I am lynched first, when I flip town, how would you suggest the town proceed?




At rec:
P.edit rec, you are not addressing the substance of either issue and just say “wifom” and “self meta.”

In your view I fought against the leading wagon, trying to get ABR lynched, which was an impossibility, and quickhammered because I was counting on the wifom to look town. Wouldnt it have looked more town to just keep my fucking mouth shut when I was townread?

As for self meta, can you say with a straight face that you read it with any attention? I explained in detail my thought process and my emotional state. That is not self meta. I talked about my meta but I was not saying at any point “this is what I always do let me get away with it”. I y’all you step by step through why I did what I did. Read it carefully and tell me you think I could make that up.

I'd ask the mod if she was joking. I would vote SB or wonder if the mod said if this game was bastard.

mod: Are there any bastard elements to this game

I think a PR worth there salt would check me or SB.

@CLAP

, re: 1277 - Why?

1279 is the kinda stuff I like to see.

I can get behind that MT vote, too. I just think her calling Porkens obvtown along with his push onto an ABR counterwagon is suspect AF.

This is inconsistent with later posting? If you've got this 50/50 that you felt necessary to bring today (I'm fine with D2 vs. D1), why are you prodding outside of it? 1-for-1 is always a transaction that benefits town, so it feels like you should be dead-set on Porkens or Farside. Also, 1306 is an awkward presentation of the information? Idk, it's all just weird to me. I think there's no way this play comes from scum but I also just, y'know, have questions.

Do you think I would lynch my tracker?

Scum tracker ain't all that powerful? It's a strictly worse rolecop or vanilla cop within the context.

Agree with 1312. Disagree with 1330.

Porkens' posting today just makes me more comfortable with farside.

and Blair very much comes off as scum expecting the day to drift inexorably to a VP Baltar lynch and panicking when ABR pulled the rug out from under her.

My re-read gave me the same feeling.

Yeah this is a town post.

lol @ the last line of 1445

---

Re-read really set off pings for farside anyway. 89's second half felt very song-and-dance consternation about the no-lynch and felt like an awkward attempt to look like she was engaging/pushing Auro, and a lot of interactions throughout the day between her and Auro felt like a weird dance between trying to decide whether to distance, bus, or buddy - like they couldn't decide how to run with it. 99's question about Auro playing up being new, 141 & Auro's "Farside please engage with me again," the banter in 160, 162, 164, and 167. The vote in 370 feels like she's finally figured out she wants to try and bus Auro, and Auro actually fights back a bit. Auro only pushed back on a few players trying to lynch him, didn't really engage entirely with the wagon and it felt selective as fuck. 596 is the kind of meek reasoning you give to stay on the bus wagon without pushing it forward, but 605 is admitting it doesn't have traction and now Auro is closer to null than scum, even though so so many words were spilled back and forth with Auro and softly accusing him of not playing good. farside's accusations on VPB are much more... committed. They're weak, but she's much more enthused about trying to get him lynched than she ever was on Auro. She puts a few weak agreements with less-than-town reads on Auro from llama and Blair in the 790s, but nothing concrete and doesn't budge off of the VPB wagon (which at this point felt like it was inevitably going to get at least to a claim, if not a lynch, fmpov). Auro keeps the weak scumread on Farside up when pressed, but again - never really commits to this. 906, farside realizes that Auro wagon might be back on so why not try and get that sweet sweet towncred from a bus? They've both said they suspect each other, so it's gravy! And nary a word is said of Auro again, nor a post for the rest of the day. Coast on the wagon, don't try and say anything that could cause a slip, and cash in, amirite?

VOTE: farside

That's a lot of wifom you got there. You know I basically had Auro on ignore for his hyperactivity till he blatantly made shit up, right?
I don't always read everything spammy player says because sometimes it's nonsense. I ignored Hotec once for being like that and he turned out to be scum. So I kept a light eye on Auro due to my suspicion of him but didn't want to get involved in a spam war since I didn't have a lot of time for it.

[farside22]

one more thing before I go

@farside - What do you think about VPB/Auro wagons and the people on them? Do you think most of the scum were on one in particular, or evenly peppered through both, or disproportionally off both wagons? You hopped back and forth between them a little bit early on but stuck with Auro pretty consistently once the wagons seemed serious, and your thoughts on what you think was bad/good about people's votes on them having seen it in real-time as opposed to me reading back on it after the fact would be appreciated.

I thought the wagon was still barely serious when I voted him. People were still more about VP if I recall correctly.
I thought MT was pretty scummy overall as well as Clap, nothing has changed in regards to that. SB and GC were and still are pretty strong town reads on the Auro wagon. My strongest TR off the wagon was Llama.

[farside22]

Farside, let’s each put our knives down for a second and talk about starbuck. If you win this tug of war and get my lynched, I’m flipping town. I am not 100% convinced that means you are scum. I’m fairly confident, but there’s at least a 25% chunk of my brain

half of his half, your scum and I’m keeping my knife

that starbuck is trying to run the table on us. So I’ve been trying to think what if I win the tug of war and farside flips town?

Have you had any similar thoughts? Have you come up with any solution?

It's hard to imagine. I don't know if SB is the type to try to find a way to lynch 2 town players without some info that says she would be safe from anything else. Like when I flip town, there could be an investigative role that checks her. Which I would suggest.

Farside’s claim that her*

Just role related info.

I claimed as much as I'm going to. Lynch Pork tomorrow when I flip town. I'd say go after Agar too with trying to tie 2 players together with a lot of wifom post.
MT and Clap for sure.