A warlock, a werewolf, and a vampire... [Game Over]

[Lady 8]

4160 was talking about the original gent 1, I think. He wasn't a newer player though, he has that incorrect.

Gent 5 is talking about the current one.

[Lady 8]

l8, i very strongly feel that the g4/g5 non-interactions over the last couple of pages should be ai. specifically i think there's at least one scum there and i'm not really sure which one it would be first.

do you have any feelings on this?

Yeah, I do-- they're both town

Or at the very least, if one is scum, I am unsure the last couple of pages are helpful. I think Gent 4's mentioned townread of Gent 1 isn't terribly strong and partially based on false information. Gent 5 pointed out his reasoning is bad. I still lean town on both independently

[Lady 8]

We could wait out the clock, get a nightkill, then use the leaver mechanic to cull the game down to

Gent 9 / Lady 3
Gent 6 / Lady 1
Gent 1 / Lady 7

And then use the full deadline time to solve the game from there if it doesn't end. No rushing required

I'd actually love to have it done that way

[Lady 8]

UNVOTE:

Gent 4, what do you think? about the leaving stuff

[Lady 8]

If one of them leaves prematurely and they flip T/T I would probably cry a little for not being able to prove this better.

i WILL cry Gent 9 and that's a PROMISE

[Lady 8]

remind me where you think the scum are, gentleman 4

G5/L8 has biggest chance. If not, equally consider G9 and G1. Weaker townreads are G6/G3.
You will have to do some hard convincing to make me scumread L2.

ARe you saying gent 3 is your favourite gent?

[Lady 8]

if Gent 5 is town ur going down afterm e

Probably

[Lady 8]

How is Genbt 1 your favourite just for reasons such as "he's genuinely into his reads"?

Oh right the pool of towny gents is reaally small. nevermind

[Lady 8]

L8 whats your thoughts on G1 he's my biggest ambiguous slot rn

I think his case on Lady 1 is somewhat invalid and confirm biassy. I don't know if that makes him scum.

He's at a similar level to Gent 6t for me. I would not be surprised if hes' scum but at the same time I would sooner shoot Lady 2 / Gent 3, put Gent 1 in the endgame, and then come to a conclusion there. He's very close to the middle for me

[Lady 8]

What's your point?

I think i may have misunderstood what you wrote, im unsure what it was

[Lady 8]

VOTE: Gent 4 / Lady 2

Ok well if whoever hasn't voted doesn't want the waiting thing heres mine

[Lady 8]

i don't know if gentleman 3's activity is alignment-indicative in any way. i'm just thinking he could be scum through a combination of POE and just some things i don't really like about his play. same for gentleman 1 really...

i know i'm probably going very wrong somewhere in my reads but i don't really know where so i'm kinda just hoping you guys figure out the missing pieces after another scum flip? tbh i still think the 6p i like is probably gentleman 9 - lady 3, gentleman 6 - lady 1, gentleman 5 - lady 8? but i don't really know where the best place to find scum in those names is, especially if there isn't scum outside of those names

this a god tier endgame but my pair is only happening if there's scum in 4/2. I'm not particularly holding my breath but I'd be ecstatic if so

[Lady 8]

Gent 3 v1 liked it because he followed his heart and chose Lady 7 over me in order to sort her and solve the game or something

It was then shown that Gent 1 v1 made no mention of wanting to sort her, he gave no reason and Gent 3 v1 attached that to it for some reason

[Lady 8]

You're a great IC Gent 8

[Lady 8]

Hehehehe

No wonder everyone in this game seems so towny

[Lady 8]

I didn't reread terribly deep during the night. i will do that later tonite

Initially I only suspect Gent 3, side chance of Gent 1. Also potentially Gent 5 if I'm blinded by love

The two pairs w/o those three (Gent 9 / Lady 3 + Gent 6 / Lady 1) is game winning I'm sure. Certainly. Definitely

[Lady 8]

In all seriousness I'd love everyone to rank the five remaining pairs in order of wanting to see them flip.

Gent 3 >>>> Gent 1 >>> Gent 5 > Gent 6 / Lady 1 = Gent 9 / Lady 3 ?

Gent 3 I don't really have much to work with -- lemme look through

Spoiler: Gentleman 3

who do you think is scum, gentleman 3?

I honestly don't know. My best answer for you is really just "the people who aren't in my townreads". That'd be Gentleman 1, Gentleman 4, Gentleman 6, Lady 1, and

maybe

Gentleman 5 and Lady 2.

He has hedged on Lady 2 / slightly suggested her to be town here, without being strong on it. Mmmm I can't believe he had G6/L1 below Lady 2

He also has another post where he mentions liking Lady 2 (1885). Interesting. Largely his posts aren't a whole lot different for me, theyre not towny or scummy. A perfect vote for me really since I don't usually get much in the way of scumreads, i townread most of the game now, and his interactions aren't great

I almost wish I could've seen him enter day two casing me now though. He ended up 180ing his read of me and I was kind of curious what i was doing that was apparently scummy

Gent 1 spent so much effort casing Lady 1 yesterday, i don't recall exactly what his contributions beyond that were. Leeemmmmeeeeee look

Spoiler: Gentleman 1

Yup it's grilling Lady 1. Maybe that was to try and get something going other than G4/L2-- they have a lot of miselims they're going to need.

I see he voted G2/L4 when we were picking between the two 2/4 pairs. I swear there were some people who held out for L2/G4 first besides myself but I forget. Regardless he wasn't one of them.

And I really don't think it's my partner but I wouldn't put it past me to be missing something, especially considering Gent 4 as an example. If he can do it, I definitely can

[Lady 8]

to expand on the fact I SR G5, his posting at the end of first dance was just not good at all, in fact:
VOTE: G5
I think it was bad enough for me to vote it. Dude was acting real shady trying to save L2's pair

I recall Gent 5 changing his mind on Gent 4 being scum, he always had Lady 2 at the bottom though. Towards the end he shifted back towards not liking Gent 4 (which makes no sense if he's trying to save L2), but he then wanted a no elim at the end

The reason he wanted a no elim (he was clear about this to me in our PT), was that he was starting to suspect Lady 5 and wanted to see if she dies before continuing on

Maybe his plan was to not let L2/G4 die -> don't kill L5, kill a different pair -> start suspicion on the IC pair the next day.

It doesn't get him a lot but it does give Lady 2 a chance. I didn't quite agree with suspecting Lady 5 although I had her as less strong than other ladies in my reads and if she survived I'd have been a little paranoid.

[Lady 8]

I swear there were some people who held out for L2/G4 first besides myself

My jewel Lady the first did as well.

oh that's right! Yay Lady 1!

[Lady 8]

I recall Gent 5 changing his mind on Gent 4 being scum, he always had Lady 2 at the bottom though.

Towards the end he shifted back towards not liking Gent 4 (which makes no sense if he's trying to save L2)

, but he then wanted a no elim at the end

The bolded here makes me the most at ease

Essentially there was a point where in our PT we were like "I'm starting to like Gent 4 more" -> "Me too babe now what" -> "idk"

If he were scum with Lady 2, I don't know why he wouldnt sustain that townread on Gent 4. Gives him more wiggle room i suppose. Instead he put G4 still at the bottom of his reads end of day and didnt TR him

Spoiler: here

sure, i respect that.
do you think g4 is scum or just wrong?

I think he's definitely suspicious.

G5 can you do me a readslist please?

[Lady 1, Lady 3, Lady 7, Lady 8]
[Gent 1, Gent 6, Gent 9, Lady 6]
[Gent 3, Gent 4, Lady 2]

Something like this I want to eliminate the Gent 4/Lady 2 pair less than what it looks like here

Here is where I stand lady 3

He was also never going to turn around and try to save L2 today, that I'm pretty sure of. Mayyyybe I could see trying to pull off the IC paranoia strategy, but after that it'd still be L2 regardless

[Lady 8]

gentleman 9 and i have been talking about gentleman 3 overnight! i'm not sure how interested he was in my input, though.

i don't actually really think g3 reads as aligned with the flipped baddies. i also don't really think g3 is all that towny but i'm not sure if i feel like he needs to die immediately

that said BLOODBATH so maybe we should just kill him for the banter.

wait, do you two still suspect each other?

[Lady 8]

Don't go all G4 on me now.

Bahahahaha

[Lady 8]

Ah, i do remember the whole thing where Gent 3 pretty strongly felt G2/L4 was town. i can respect that, i just wish he would have been around to help me with it. Oh, maybe that's why he stopped scumreading me !

I don't know if that sways me elsewhere though.

I don't think G7 and L2 talking about Lady 3 suggests the topic has large importance to them. Them wanting to focus on L3 rather than G9 is somewhat of a stretch but I think i get your point

[Lady 8]

Haha i hadn't realized who G7 is until now

Lady 7 definitely town. I don't think we can use G7's treatment of G3 as a way to clear him. I don't really agree with the case on G9

[Lady 8]

If misty and I are linked as lovers already why does my hypo scum partners want to attack my dancemate

They aren't attacking her as scum. They want the focus not on you.

They have no need to sort but they pick that one spot to engage upon together and don't engage on the read just whether L3 is looking townie. They also reach the conclusion that L3 is town without calling her right or wrong town.

Didn't Gent 7 reach the conclusion he thought L3 was scummy? He never retracted that

[Lady 8]

Haha i hadn't realized who G7 is until now

Lady 7 definitely town. I don't think we can use G7's treatment of G3 as a way to clear him. I don't really agree with the case on G9

Why not? If you know who G7 is, then you should have a realization about how he treats his scumpartners. Do you disagree with how I describe G7's treatment towards his partners and others?

Who do you think G7's last partner is?

I am somewhat familiar with the behaviour you're talking about although I have seen exceptions -- thats as good as I can explain that. Perhaps im off the mark

I dont really think of the last scum as "G7's partner" as much as i think of them as "L2's partner" or perhaps just last scum. Which I'm at G3>G1>G5.

You mentioned he treated Gent 3 too politely. The only interaction I see is this:

Gentleman 3, I must ask that you take a step back and reconsider your choices in life, sir.

It's really not enough -- they didnt even speak with each other really

[Lady 8]

He didish because he didn't push the issue. He got what he wanted attention away from G9 and not pushing L3.

He barely had any thoughts, period, after that point though. He said 5/8 pairings are town. Lady 5 is town. Asked Lady 6 why she scumread him. Then he gave up -- in that order

[Lady 8]

I figured that's what you meant although I still think it's a bit of a stretch

[Lady 8]

is it necessary to reread seriously until after Gent 3's flip? I'm feeling very lazy and sleepy

( ｡vωv｡) zZz

[Lady 8]

i am down with G5/L8 + G6/L1 but i also want G9/L3 third and possibly taking one of the top two pairs places if we figure something out betwn now and then

If the game doesn't end with just those two pairs i'd probably panic for a bit tho

[Lady 8]

Why are people suspicious about me?

Cause you "tried to save Lady 2" by pushing for no elim yesterday

I just hedge you down a little bit because I am completely unable to see you as tricking me at this point and i might be missing something

[Lady 8]

Haha i hadn't realized who G7 is until now

Lady 7 definitely town. I don't think we can use G7's treatment of G3 as a way to clear him. I don't really agree with the case on G9

what are you getting G7's identity from

Just by being familiar with him. Might be incorrect but in that case he strongly reminds me of someone.

It's not really helping me solve the game, though, his identity isn't important

[Lady 8]

Please don't feel bad Gent 3 ;_;

[Lady 8]

Oh no

[Lady 8]

I thought that was it cause he didn't say anything, I figured that's how scum concedes

We actually have to bother with this now

[Lady 8]

I point the finger of suspicion at gentleman 1

im with my man on this one. At least with the amount of reading ive done thus far

[Lady 8]

DEAR GOD don't reduce it down to just my pair and G1/L7

[Lady 8]

DEAR GOD don't reduce it down to just my pair and G1/L7

I feel like this is the highest-probability block of 4 town :/

Lady 1 and Gent 6!!! I find it really hard to see them as scum for the reasons that were just outlined in the past few pages

Also my own independent townread from L1's interactions with G7 as well as her play in general. She is not scum

Gent 6 could be really good scum, maybe

DEAR GOD don't reduce it down to just my pair and G1/L7

Can you outline your possible suspicions on me

I don't have a lot. I guess maybe you wanted to no-elim so you could kill somewhere other than the IC pair, and then get an extra miselim on them the next day ?

But I decently wanted no-elim too and i dont take huge issue with it

Really i'm just scared of accidentally losing the game for everyone

[Lady 8]

You're lock-clear on G6?

More than G1!

[Lady 8]

Well this is a scary time. Not as scary as it could be, though! i imagine my scaredyness levels will increase at a rate that only accelerates with every fail

Spoiler: reads

Lady 8
Lady 7
Lady 1 - Lady 3
Gent 5
Gent 9 - Gent 6
Gent 1

pedit: Town wins if they get a T-T pair to survive to the end, the easiest of which is their own. Scum wins if they get their own pair to the end. Town can also just try to figure out who the scum pair is.

If we try to make cases for why ourselves should live, then it's probably just a competition of who's the best at towncasing themselves/their partner, which the scum among us can do too

I suppose the hardest thing for scum to replicate right now is saying who they think the scum is, and why. But that's also tricky for me to do as well.

I'm pretty solidly thinking Gent 1 but casing why is somewhat hard. His content doesnt townping me as much as Gent 6's does. I think his Lady 1 case was incorrect, and that's what he devoted 90% of his attention to. Very tunnely. Today he's entered immediately suspecting Gent 5 the most (??) which I struggle a little bit to understand.

[Lady 8]

im proud of you for having reads L8!

thank u G9 they're not that good but i appreciate it !! ^ω^

[Lady 8]

Do I have to start thinking about scum that wanted to play the long game here -- Maybe

See, I don't think scum wanted to hold onto Lady 2. At all. Makes no sense. Gent 5, he wanted a no-elim. It wasn't gonna help Lady 2. I think Gent 1's way of thinking about Gent 5's approach to end of day yesterday is too surface-level

As scum there, I'd have gotten on that Lady 2 wagon. Pushed for it to go. Maybe not extremely hard, like Gent 6 did. He rushed us to get it done pretty hard. Maybe he's smart scum, but I'd expect maybe staying quiet a bit, seeing what happens, and then pouncing if i have to. Probably more like this vote

VOTE: G4-L2
probably gets flipped first in Second Dance so it’s better to get rid of them now and save the time

There is also Lady 1, who I'm going to trust, who says that she is pretty sure Gent 6 is town. That helps

[Lady 8]

pls no more fight

[Lady 8]

See, I don't think scum wanted to hold onto Lady 2. At all. Makes no sense.

I feel this - even though G4 was effectively the elim of Dance 1, I really don't feel like there was anyone on L2's side.

And that's the theory Gent 1 enters the day with -- that Gent 5 is the worst because he was trying to hold onto Lady 2 for a little longer with the no-elim

Seems somewhat.. off. That's not how I saw it at all, i was wondering if other people saw it like Gent 1 but it seems not

[Lady 8]

I think G1s iso/play has been sub par but I think his interactions with L2 seem pretty decent.

I don't see much in terms of L2/G1 interaction. I'm probably missing it -- what interactions of theirs did you like?

[Lady 8]

Guys you're scaring me

[Lady 8]

Guys you're scaring me

I imagine fakegod could stitch my sad worried PT posts and your sad worried PT posts like kinstones in the Minish Cap.

it all started

with Gent 3 leaving about fifteen minutes ago

and it's only going downhill from there

If i was effectively in El-LO with G5 vs my own lady the first, I'd cry myself to sleep trying to choose.

I really hope it's just none of those three.

SAME

[Lady 8]

Just like, not in 5 minutes. Do it over the span of a much longer period of time maybe? I don't think I could handle that

But yeah that's my best thinking right now

[Lady 8]

I am extremely disappointed in him, like parents-watching-their-adult-children-make-dumb-life-decisions disappointed, in not giving it one more try given we had EIGHT DAYS before game is over.

Imagine a world in which he gave a tenth of a fuck after talking his huge game and tried to make an impact in the remaining 8 slots.

He probably didn't have any reads, and probably didn't feel like whatever ones he got from however much time to reread he had would be worth.

[Lady 8]

If we're removing Gent 1 tonight, and it doesnt go so well, I'm taking a break before doing anything else -- that's for sure

Wow I once again say I'll leave the dance and people get all clamy. Almost like I'm the only one who'll put up or shut up when it comes down to it. WOO GO L1

I'm scared !!

Your plan is my own. I just really don't want to be in that endgame situation so if I want to be really sure. And I'm not even sure what would change my mind at this point anyway. But yknow.

[Lady 8]

we owe it to the dead townies whose corpses our current life is built atop.

if that is true then its desirable to compile a series of what their latest reads before death are and use it as guidance

I want to do this for fun even if it probably won't influence me all that much. We do know more than they did

[Lady 8]

Spoiler: Lady 6 before intermission

I think L3 and L8 are both town with high confidence. Pre replace lilith is not scum lilith from my memories, and scum lilith wasn't particularly hard to catch. 4064 is goodposting. I have a pretty good record at picking up when I'm being PT pocketed, though, so I'm not overly concerned with G3.

I think L3/G9 and G1/L7 are my preferred endgame pairs atm.

I also don't think early pages G4 is likely scum, but I'm not at all convinced L2 is town, which seems to be roughly opposite the thread consensus but still functionally the same thing.

My replace in theory was thoroughly shot to hell when I read G7's entrance. I think G7 probably realized pretty early that his slot was never endgaming, so it's likely quite a bit of his behavior was intentional smokescreening. That leads me to the belief that L1 is probably town. (Particularly, 910 looks to me like an attempt to make her look bad post flip, similarly to how 1398 seems to be an attempt to poison the well for {L4/G2}.)

Unedited notes from while I was a little feverish. Feel free to ask about them, but I don't actually remember what I was thinking for most of it:

L7G1 had interesting conversation about it. Particularly, G4's reaction to the original ask feels pretty eh and G5's seems pretty town.

L8 and G1 are likely the same alignment. If either is scum, it's probably S/S. I feel it is more probable that they are both town though. (p15)

G5/G9 is unlikely to be S/S. (Post 403)

L1 3 townpairs list seems really bad. Including herself and a person scumreading her seems like it's a move for towncred and not a legitimate play. (post 450)

Spoiler: Lady 6 post intermission

i just really don't vibe your case on scum!him !

I thought the case on him was more that the flipped scum were trying to get people to focus on you out of the pair, when you are pretty obviously the stronger player from a (becoming townread) PoV, which seems like a strong enough case to not have him endgame. I don't particularly think he's scum, but I wouldn't be opposed to flipping him. Vaguely, I'm in a similar place with G3. I think it's very possible that he's town, but I'm not really sold on him being town either, so if we die, we die.

I'm feeling pretty happy with L3's 4517, tbh, and I'd probably be okay with either of G5/L8 or G6/L1.

I guess I'll rephrase my question though.

Does anyone have any particular reservation about either of G5/L8 or G6/L1 being the last pair standing?

[Lady 8]

Let me grab the most relevant read to what I'm deciding on (aka G6/L1 vs. G1/L7)

Lady 6 post dannflor preferred G6/L1 > G1/L7 (4527). Dannflor Lady 6 seems to prefer G1 over G6 (3718) and had paranoia of L1 (3716)

Lady 5 preferred G6/L1 > G1/L7 as well (4279)

Gent 8 has both Lady 1 and Gent 1 very close to bottom of his reads, with Gent 6 and Lady 7 very high (4314 + 4315)

Gent 4 hard townread Gent 1 (4239)

---

So if they were to vote on who is townier:

G6/L1 - Lady 6v2, Lady 5
G1/L7 - Lady 6v1, Gent 4
Undecided - Gent 8

If they were to vote on the Gent they like more between 1 and 6:

G6: Gent 8, Lady 6v1, Lady 5
G1: Gent 4, Lady 6v2

pedit: well that's really helpful! but it also is harder for me to read with all the numbers so ill just post my own version anyway just in case

[Lady 8]

G9, you're so towny ~

finally, some relationship development!

[Lady 8]

i'm more of a cheerleader than anything. I kinda just cried inside while you two were fighting which wasn't terribly productive

[Lady 8]

╥﹏╥

[Lady 8]

sniff

Not before Gent 1, right?

>﹏<

[Lady 8]

I thought Sans 1 was towny. whyy do you find nagito towny though

This is something i need explained to me in order to accept your proposed endgame. Gent 6, Lady 1, and Lady 7 i am perfectly fine with

[Lady 8]

Also adc feels pretty dependent on enemy team comp to me. skill is big but like if u have assassins or MALPHITE constantly nuking you idk how much your own skill matters. Then again, not a very good adc

[Lady 8]

If I can be 100% sure my other half is town, then yes, mafia is about to lose and needs to push for me to take him out, or at least get a ton of paranoia on G5

Unsure if Gent 1 would recognize that during the night. Through the night I was playing around with the idea of scum possibly choosing a different pair to kill than the IC one, and I thought maybe they'd choose my pair (I considered G9/L3 too but they are probably too volatile). I thought we came off looking great from Lady 2 being evil.

But apparently, Gent 1 believes Gent 5 was trying to buy time for Lady 2 with the no-elim. Gent 9 also suspects Gent 5 -- but he suspects me too sooo idk. I dont think Gent 9 is scum at all but im unsure whether I trust him on this. Some stuff to talk about I suppose

I really just need to be certain Gent 5 is town and then he can take me in his arms and we win the game. If I cant be sure of that we can just have L1/G6 endgame, my second choice being L3/G9 but they're having relationship struggles :c

[Lady 8]

Thank you both for your service!

Let's go back an examine how the invites near the end went down with our new knowledge.

Lady 7, I get your case on G9 now.

Can you do a brief wall of your townread reasons that also contribute to your POE of G9?

U know I realize something. In your ISO you consistently put L2 as your bottom read. But you never once talk about or with her.

ISO me and you'll find the same thing. There was nothing to say about Lady 2.

[Lady 8]

No one really said they wanted L3/G9 as their last pair today. Not even L3/G9 wants that. If they're scum the game is already won -- im already on to worrying about scarier scenarios

so, who the heck is scum. If theres a deep wolf, who would it be...

My initial thoughts would be someone who disowned their teammates and is getting cleared for it. Lady 1 bussed too early from what i remember, and shes town. Lady 7 I still dont think can be scum

Oh no! Gent 1 vs. Gent 6 vs. Gent 5, then. I said yesterday I should analyze g1 v g6, but i didnttt. Will be on later

[Lady 8]

Oh, i thought u meant, like, interactions with Lady 2. Cause I dont think I interacted with her, but I did talk about her a little yea!

I suppose if Gent 6 never dared to speak her name that could be telling.

[Lady 8]

L8 do you think I should put on my carrying hat

Even if there's a malphit can could potentially slam me

yes definitely. If you're feeling up to it, anyway. it's hypocritical of me though because I still haven't done anything tryhard when this is really a good time to

[Lady 8]

Okay that doesn't scare me much because I really didn't think it was them.

I'm just sad about it. They really needed relationship therapy :C

[Lady 8]

I don't really buy the case against G6. I think he's just town. The more I read back over him the more I'm like ya this is town posting - there isn't like...anything that makes me feel like he's more aligned with flipped scum than anyone else. His solving rings sincere to me and I think he's approaching the puzzle in a way that is just really hard to replicate as scum He's town.

L1 is probably town but if she lolbussed then did sweet fuck all and endgamed I'd be like, disappointed, but it would be funny

I like L8 a lot. If she's just charmed me whatever. I haven't really considered her as scum because I haven't really seen anything that's made me want to consider her as scum! She's another one in the G6 vibe where her posting is just like good and has good momentum and I think it's quite hard for scum to replicate exhaustively. I don't dislike her trajectory. Town cool.

G5 is towny enough I think and has a kind of, anti-charisma adjacent style that I don't think comes from a scum mindset. e.g. like waltzing into today asking why he was suspected still resonates with me as a really strange thing to do as scum who's basically set to f2*2. I'll trust whoever's around later to sort this out but he doesn't feel like scum.

L7 is probably town, I feel warmer and warmer about her all the time. G1 is like, I don't know how to read him at all, he doesn't really make sense to me

I keep talking about this in the pt and here a little too! but I think G9 is kinda just approaching this the way I think a final wolf needs to approach this. there is paranoia about his alignment from slots who have high endgame equity. If he *is* town I don't think I have the power to overcome my paranoia and see it. If he isn't scum then like yeet

go town

I think Gent 6 has a *way* about how he posts that I just like. Like his approach to all the wagons and gathering info, i dont know how to describe it. He also has been very active in trying to solve -- my only negative points probably being that his reads were mostly consensus (so were mine), and he had G3 wrong (so did i)

I will be angri if Lady 1 is scum

Thank u i try

I agree! Gent 5 openly asks why people are suspecting him constantly, even when it's not a lot. It's interesting to me and it pings slightly towny. I am certain he thinks me and him win together when we reach the end. Or.. he wins when we reach at end at the very least. I'll do in depth of him either if I feel like it or when i have to]

Lady 7 is town yeah. Gent 1 isn't yeah (please be scum Gent 1)

Gent 9 ;c

[Lady 8]

We havent let Gent 1 react to either of these departures. Maybe he doesn't want to. Dunno but its certainly easy to maintain a scumread on him this way. Kind of wish he spoke with us

[Lady 8]

I was really happy we made it to the second dance with an easy scumflip

but i didn't realize what the implications of being here would be

Gent 5 please tell me everything will be okay !!

[Lady 8]

Lady 1 is simultaneously the worst and best scum player of all time if she's scum here. I townread her so hard but i can technically see me being played i guess -- i just heavily don't think that's the case. Her G7/L2 association are too unbelievable

pedit: hello

[Lady 8]

Yeah i dont see doing any pair before G1/L7. Makes sense to check each other's partners. Ill make G6 my main target for analysis later. ill be back !!!!!!

[Lady 8]

Spoiler: Gent 6 comments

Gent 6 is very charming. I like the way he sounds reading from his first post up to 1042 (the first serious read post of his). He mentioned at some point his goal is to pair with a partner and leave down the line if he must, or if he's going to be left out, have good reads. very fun wifom stuff but it definitely sounds good

G6, what are your main reads/takes at the moment?

I'm townhunting, and leaving the catchup-read to future-me's problem tomorrow (IRL tomrorow that is)

Guy 3 is town. (I suspect I both know who he is, and don't know who is is at the same time and it vexes me)
Guy 2 is town. (Is nobody going to address that he's playing so carefree he didn't even notice I'm not the player who was having issues, even though I explicitly made it a part of my opening moves)
Lady 5 is town. (Do I really need to explain this one?)

I believe Lady 1 is best sorted by me in our lewd handholding dungeon, and am willing to commit to yeeting myself and her if I don't like the kinks.


I'm sure I'd have more reads if I went back and read the initial pages, and I will do so eventually, but those are the towns that strike my fancy right now.

Nothing abt these reads strikes me as odd, and theres an example of his stance on Lady 1 -- it seems like he didn't open with much of a townread on her, he's figuring it out as he goes along

<Self-Meta>
I think scum-me here replaces in and gambits using the fact that nobody knows how much experience I'd have, pretends to be new to the setup and immediately starts looking for pair up.
</Self-meta>

I wonder if this is true.

What are your reads?

At this point, I am trying to sort by pairs, and not solos. I'm working on a formalized reads list and then intend to denote which half of a pair I like better/worse... even though mechanically at this point it doesn't matter!

Since my last townreads list:

Guy 3 is town. (I suspect I both know who he is, and don't know who is is at the same time and it vexes me)
Guy 2 is town. (Is nobody going to address that he's playing so carefree he didn't even notice I'm not the player who was having issues, even though I explicitly made it a part of my opening moves)
Lady 5 is town. (Do I really need to explain this one?)

I have decided to add Lady 1 (tenative on PT sort), Lady 7 (Mostly for her early scumread of my slot's replaceout in post 336, amusingly enough), and Gentleman 1.

Most of those are from re-reading the part of the game that happened before I replaced in.

That gives me a town block that looks something like this (Assuming we see G2-L4):

Gentleman 9 - Lady 3
Gentleman 5 - Lady 8

Gentleman 1

-

Lady 7

Gentleman 8

-

Lady 5

Gentleman 3

-

Lady 3

Gentleman 6

-

Lady 1

Gentleman 4 - Lady 2

Gentleman 2

-

Lady 4

Essentially, I don't think that "proper" scumhunting is all that productive right now. I'd rather just find three town-town pairs and mass-hemlock the rest. (And I am mostly including myself in the hemlocking, not the three)

New reads list! If I were Gent!6 scum, I'd have townread Gentleman 4 probably. I think i could have used him as a sort of lifeline to save Lady 2. Perhaps this is too early for that, but he didn't have exceptionally strong reasons to colour people as town in this post (they all seem somewhat loose)

OK. I'm scratching my head at you being unable to townread either of me or Ghosty 8, or Gent 9 and Lady 3

We approach the game very differently. I am unable to really see things from the POV as you're seeing them, but that's okay!

Lady 3 I have a specific concern I am choosing not to elaborate on right now.

Gent 9 I guess just, on my re-read, didn't really leave a impression on me that made it a town-lean.

I expect these reads to fluctuate as time goes on.

I don't expect to be around for the final few pairings.

I slightly townread the specific hidden concern on Lady 3. Gent 6 seems to really have not expected to live this far. But if its him and Lady 2 last scum alive, I'm not really sure what the strategy was here. I'd expect that one of them needs to hard bus the other -- which Gent 6 down the line doesn't.. really do? I'll keep on

First off… I intend to treat each player individually, then go back and see what that makes the pairings look like.

I think trying to sort pairs in and of themselves as of yet is a trap. A very shiny trap, but a trap none the less. I’ll be going into details per tier next. What sucks is that even tier D isn't inherently a scum read. Just less town pinging. This game is really pleasant to the ears and eyes... such that I'm finding it hard to form reads from the opposite end.

Tier S+ “Uh, setup says Hi”

{Gent the 8th, Gent the 6th}

Tier S “If this person is not town, I really hope I’m not around to make endgame calls”

{Lady the 5th, Lady the 7th}

Tier A “I currently have no plans to vote here, barring major changes in game state”

{Gent the 9th, Lady the 6th, Lady the 3rd, Lady the 8th}

~~~~~~Line of Townblock Invitation~~~~~

Tier B “I have the desire to townblock and or nuzzle this person, with a few reservations that I’d love you all to help me with”

{Gent the 2nd, Lady the 1st, Gent the 1st}

Tier C “I have no plans to townblock this person, but I am open to hearing from others in A and S tiers about why I should change my opinions”

{Gent the 3rd, Gent the 5th, Gent the 4th}

Tier D “I find no reasons to put this person near a townblock”

{Lady the 4th, Lady the 2nd}


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



Coloring townblock vs not Green vs Blue gives me...

Gentleman 9 - Lady 3

Gentleman 5

-

Lady 8

Gentleman 1

-

Lady 7

Gentleman 8 - Lady 5

Gentleman 3

-

Lady 6

Gentleman 6

-

Lady 1
Gentleman 4 - Lady 2
Gentleman 2 - Lady 4

As such, I believe 9-3 and 8-5 should be two of the three endgame pairings.

Ideally, we need one more SOLID pairing though. Time to start digging into specifics....

Still not inventing a townread on Gent 4! So scum Gent 6 needs to create a strong bus on Lady 2 to seal him as town for the endgame! That's his only way of winning with these reads, if he sticks to them.

He also liked Gent 9 / Lady 3 before it was cool. That's neat, at this point i still didn't TR gent 9 -- To be honest, did hardly anyone? I'm not sure if he had an evil reason to townblock that pair into the endgame. Maybe he's a god and knew they'd paranoia each other out somehow

He puts Lady 5 and Lady 7 as his very top townreads which is nothing special, but I definitely agreed with

You want to talk to me about Gent 9's 'towntell'?

Yeah, actually.

I am approaching from a "What would I do if I were scum in this setup" and if I were going to misread-the-setup gambit I'd sure as hell not have done it this way.

There's quite a bit of potential downside to misreading the setup ploys. If you are going to use it, you want to use it early, cash some towncred within the first phase (pre-dance) and use that to gain a partner. Making "scumreads" based upon it seems like incredibly high risk... and I'm not a risk adverse gambiter by any means, but there's no upside here. The potential gains form this gambit is entry to the dance if you expected not to make it. However, he was literally in the dance by page 5. Why continue this gambit with no new upsides for nearly another 90 pages of fast-paced content?


As for the "Well, what if he's scum and just flat out misread the setup" then to believe that reality, you have to go along that:

A: The other scum never discussed optimal play for this setup
B: Guy the 9th never planed for optimal play in the setup in his scum PT
C: Guy the 9th never asked about the setup spec the town was doing in the PT

I just don't buy A B and C happening simultaneously this far into the game, even though we flipped a total lurksack in guy the 7th. If for some reason this is true, the third hypothetical partner would also be a lurksack, or flying under the radar/coasting, in Guy the 3rd, Guy the 2nd, or something of the like. And I get the feeling guy the 3rd could be ruled out as a partner here because a scumteam with guy the 3rd on it has a university master's thesis paper on playing the setup optimally on it the day he replaced in.

I disagreed with this reasoning but regardless, it seems like Gent 6 really believed in it -- or he had a good scum reason to want Gent 9 / Lady 3 to endgame. I do not see what that would be.

I decently liked Gent 6's behaviour towards the G2/L4 wagon as he encouraged me to hammer it. There are some other posts sprinkled around up to this point that i like for minor reasons that im not gonna bother quoting

It wasn't "survivalist" because survivalism would mean G4 votes for his counter wagon or goes for a target where there is more interest like G3 or G9.

Counterpoint... Lady the 1st isn't nearly as townread globally as you make out.

this is risky. Seal Lady 6 barely mentions Lady 1 indirectly with regards to Gent 4 trying to start a counterwagon on her, and Gent 6 points out a flaw in Lady 6's theory -- That Lady 1 wasn't as townread as she thinks. Why does scum Gent 6 do that? He doesnt lose anything if he lets Lady 1 believe that, but this way he gains nothing unless he is town

Guy the 1st COULD but alas.

He actively chose to stop by and then not vote.

Gent 6 pointing out Gent 1 dodged the opportunity to add his vote to the L2/G4 wagon

the 10000 IQ interpretation is that Gent 6 is scum framing Gent 1 here

The 1 IQ interpretation (and probably the correct one) is that Gent 1 is scum and was stalling, and Gent 6 is town that correctly pointed this out, so Gent 1 felt the overwhelming need to bus by the end and thats why his vote is kinda awkward

Oh I certainly think that game is over when Guy the 3rd dies.

I fear a world in which it's just my pair and one other, though!

I'd probably lose sleep for months.

G6, thoughts on a L5G8 endgame?

G5L8*

They're the pair I'd want with me in endgame right now, although more because of the lady than the gent.

If i was effectively in El-LO with G5 vs my own lady the first, I'd cry myself to sleep trying to choose.

I really hope it's just none of those three.

I feel like Gent 6 and i are having the exactly same game experience ever since this horror movie of a second dance began. I relate heavily to the pressure Gent 6 says he's been feeling today, i would be somewhat shocked if he's faking this. It's exactly whats going thru my head as it happens

I mean I pretty blatantly stopped caring about both of the 2-4 pairs and wanted them flipped before intermissions, alignments be damned. I was working on the rest of the game assuming they'd all be corpses.

I made ZERO secret of that.

I don't know how today ends. I just want to get to a world where I trust 5-8 enough to let the ladies have their death pact and we all take hemlock into the sunset. Nothing else matter besides finding the winning pair.

I really just want everyone's takes on who their final pairing would be. Other than their own, obv, because while I may want 6-1 you obviously don't!

Still think it'll end up being 6-1/8-5 in final four if we get there and I dread it.

I am praying to any deity I can think of the game ends before that.

Lady 8 make Mee feel betyer about guy five and then we can all mass suicide and none of this shit will natter.

We can all just be dewad. And then win.

More Gent 6 posts of this variety i like

I don't.. think it's Gent 6

[Lady 8]

It's literally just Gent 1 .............................. right?

ill check out Gent 5 now

[Lady 8]

Spoiler: Gent 5 comments

I ask Lady 8 to the dance

My reasoning is as follows:

-Having a sample of Lady 8's postings, I believe I'll be able to get a good read on her alignment if we are in a pt together. So far I like them in a nai way but believe that it is possible for them to be mafia.
-To that extent, I disagree with post 312 from Lady 7. I'm not townreading Lady 6 specifically right now. Lady 8 I feel hasn't revealed enough of her heart to be able to tell. I don't know how I feel about Lady 7 as a result of this.
-I intend to put in work this game.

Okay. Why does scum Gent 5 do this on his third post? No one had stated townreads on me by this point (or barely no one). People do it after the proposal, but not before. What was scum!Gent 5's plan if I wasn't towny?

Did he know i have a tendency against being eliminated, and sniped me for that reason? I doubt that because A.) im not immune to miselims at all, i just have a slight tendency to avoid this and B.) he says he has no idea who i am. Is he lying?

I ask Lady 8 to the dance

My reasoning is as follows:

-Having a sample of Lady 8's postings, I believe I'll be able to get a good read on her alignment if we are in a pt together. So far I like them in a nai way but believe that it is possible for them to be mafia.
-To that extent, I disagree with post 312 from Lady 7. I'm not townreading Lady 6 specifically right now. Lady 8 I feel hasn't revealed enough of her heart to be able to tell. I don't know how I feel about Lady 7 as a result of this.
-I intend to put in work this game.

I am trying to decide if he wants to pair up with the towniest person in the game because he thinks he needs "a bit more"
Or if he is trying to look town while snagging the towniest person in the game.

My initial reaction would be the latter but the rest of his posts are alright so I am unsure right now.

I'd be lying if I said I didn't townread lady 8 to a certain extent; I just think there is a capacity for her to be fooling us in there, moreso than what I feel coming from you, if that makes sense to you.

This is also my personal preference; the avatar interested me and then the posting seems like someone I could get along with

This is so wholesome id be heartbroken if it isn't true

@Gent 5

What is the difference between Lady 8, me, 6,seal, and 1.sad.

I simply sorted by post count, I am curious why you wanted to pair up with her in particular over anyone else given she is the most widely town read individual but you want to pair up for sorting based reasons?

Also do you have a nickname of sorts I could use?

To start with, I don't have a strong opinion of 1 sad, so I'm not considering her more or less than any other randomly chosen lady

6 seal: at the time I arrived in thread, having read her posts, I wasn't a fan. Posts like 203, 211, 302 read as tonally scummy to me. I think there was a notable shift in the way they posted after I showed up in thread that makes me like them more; maybe I'm biased because I agreed with her.

7 blue: The only thing that stuck out about you to me was your reads in 312, in which I thought it was too early for the read on 8 Ghost and disagreed with the read on 6 Seal. After my initial proposal, which was to 8 Ghost, I went back and looked at some of your posts more closely and you felt straightforward/town to me. If given the choice, I'd dance with you if 8 Ghost doesn't work out - though that doesn't align with my initial reasoning for choosing 8 Ghost and you may find my selection in partners to be scummy.

8 ghost: I'll link to posts that made me think they have the capacity to be scum: 197, 202, 210, 212, 225. These posts are different than her current posting, I feel.

He gives examples of what he was thinking in regards to his read on me (the part where i have a capacity to be scum)

I can probably look at Lady 7 objectively now

since she's no longer my rival.

To me it seems like Ghosty 8 has already decided that they'd be pairing with me at this point.

Post 477 tingles my suspicions; pairing with the IC in Ghosty 8's position would actually be bad if she were mafia, because the general consensus has shifted to think she is town.

The way she talks about me in 408 fuels my suspicion as well. If she is mafia, she's likely decided that she wants to accept my proposal, is what I think... I can see town her feeling 'possessive' I guess, with this post and 477.

@Blue 7 it's your initial reasoning but in reverse, Lady 8 would want to pair with me if they were, mafia, probably...

Am I the only person who is seeing things like this?

One of the few posts where Gent 5 expresses paranoia of me. These make me extremely hot and bothered, i wish he had more paranoia towards me sometimes. Makes me feel safer in a way

i honestly don't understand why anyone thinks lady 6 is town. tbh she's the most likely to be scum among the ladies, from what ive read

(◡﹏◡✿)

But why tho?

She feels manipulative to me, it's hard to describe.

I think we are falling into a trap of only thinking the low effort player slots are scum

This doesn't look great in hindsight

Lady 1, Lady 3, Lady 5, Lady 7, Lady 8
Gent 3, Gent 9

Lady 2, Lady 6
Gent 1, Gent 7

Lady 4
Gent 2, Gent 4, Gent 6

This is how I'm feeling right now

He has Gent 7 in null above the other two Gents up for elimination (2 / 4). Not too great

Gentleman 9 - Lady 3
Gentleman 8 - Lady 5
Gentleman 5 - Lady 8

At the moment this is where I am, with gent 1/lady 7 in consideration depending on how gent 1 feels

But I'm not ready to advance to the end right now

No delusions of trying to save Lady 2. So just in like Gent 6's case, Gent 5 needs to play as the sole survivor. He should probably hard bus Lady 2 for maximum cred. Lets continue

I am suspicious of the way Gent 9's read on me developed

I'm not sure how strongly they believed in their push in the first place

How do you think mafia treat my pair if Ghosty 8 is town?

Vs how Gent 9 treated my pair

and vs his revised opinion on me (which may have something to do with how I was treating his pair?)

Can I have a hint? I am not really sure how to answer this.

Maybe I am having trouble because I don't have a flip to work with. I think in general as scum trying to distance you want to target the town player. It acts as you pushing on your buddy but since you are pushing on an uninformed individual it doubles as natural interactions. Although this sequence is incredibly predictable so I am not sure how it would work in practice.

This game is nightless so scum pushing or choosing to not push is very up in the air and depends entirely on the individual player.

Gent 9 and Gent 2 were both pushing on me, and I don't remember anyone else doing so. A few people have been neutral but not a real push on me.

Up until recently, there hasn't been much talk of Ghosty 8 either.

When I'm looking at people I suspect to be mafia, I see them as thinking both me and Ghosty 8 are town

Well his main suspects are Gent 9 and Gent 2 (similar to me at the time). Eliminating those two pairs would preserve Lady 2 to the next phase. However:

• 1. Gentleman 2
     
  2. Gentleman 4
     
  3. Gentleman 6
     
  4. Gentleman 7
     
  5. Gentleman 8
  1. Lady 1
     
  2. Lady 2
     
  3. Lady 4
     
  4. Lady 5

Our current unpaired folks.
Gentleman 4 has proposed to Lady 2, and she has shown an interest in accepting
Gentleman 8 is the ic

If lady 2 accepts, we're left with an elimination among the following players:

• 1. Gentleman 2
     
  2. Gentleman 6
     
  3. Gentleman 7

Lady 2, what do you think of this? Who is the best elimination? Does you accepting Gent 4 make sense?

I haven't accepted G4 yet, but I feel like I've waited long enough for anyone who wanted to voice an objection.

Gentleman 4, I graciously accept your offer to dance.

Well, I asked you what you thought of the remaining pairs. I was hoping you'd be able to explain your decision to leave Gent 2 or Gent 7 out of the dance since you're narrowing things down by choosing Gent 4.

I feel like I've waited long enough for anyone who wanted to voice an objection.

i... i did?

I feel like I've waited long enough for anyone who wanted to voice an objection.

i... i did?

You did?

After looking through your ISO I do see one comment about G4 being your preferred strand, sorry about that, but if you wanted me to hold off you should have just said "L2, please hold off for now."

I still think it was right though because G4 seems like someone I'll be able to read pretty confidently with enough time.

I don't think Lady 2 ever responded to me

Not to 1212 where I ask who the best elimination is, nor to 1483 after. They say they waited long enough for anyone to voice 'an objection'. Yet they didn't really look into it, is my guess. Or they didn't care. There were at least 2 people to respond to before going through with it, Gent 8 and me.

I think this is suspicious, because Lady 2 does not want to end up with Gent 7 (because they will both end up dead, very likely), yet still potentially wants Gent 7 to pair with somebody else, so she needs to pair up at that moment, while trying not to look too hasty by "giving people time to object".

VOTE: Gent 4/Lady 2

This is a great analysis of Lady 2. Maybe he knows her well and can bus her as such. In any case he doesnt seem concerned with saving her here, this is a hard bus. This is before the whole G2/L4 push.

I was just posting about that, Gent 8. At this point in time, Gent 7 is still unpaired and Lady 2 pairs with Gent 4.

I'm not sure how to feel about this. I don't think Lady 2 wants to pair with Gent 7, I felt like Lady 2, even though she gave time, didn't really consider what I and others had to say and went ahead with her pairing anyway

well G7 flipped mafia, kinda would be a point for L2?

Why would that be a point for L2?

Haha a G5/G1/L2 interaction! Awesome. I favour Gent 5 in this

I have Gent 4 as hard null, so your pair makes the most sense to get rid of at this point in time.

What do you think?

The thing about G4 is that I feel like he's been playing very similarly to me. Engaging and analyzing, prioritizing discussion over conclusions, and just generally trying to get his thoughts out there and say things that make sense. That's one of the reasons that I wanted to pair with him, beyond just townreading him. I thought we would work well together and he also doesn't seem the type to impulsively walk out on me.

I guess it's not really surprising that people are reading him as null. But it is surprising that people are reading him as null while having stronger reads on me, who is doing much of the same things.

I feel like his play has been by and large without agenda and geared toward contributing to the town's discussion rather than misleading it. I also feel like if he's scum and was planning to go longterm he would be more preoccupied with picking a lady that has survivability, because at the time he proposed to me I think public opinion was mostly not liking me.

Essentially I like what he has been saying and don't see any scum agenda so if he's scum either he's just not planning to endgame at all (in which case I would think he'd probably shut up and not give associations) or he is and he's just hoping that the reads on our pairing magically come around to being townier without him doing anything. Which is not impossible. But Occam's razor says it's unlikely.

UNVOTE: Gent 4/Lady 2

OK, I will reconsider

Lady 2 convinces Gent 5 to scumread Gent 4 less, causing him to unvote

Feel like Gent 5 would probably rather scumread Lady 2 over Gent 4 here! Him taking her advice to not scumread Gent 4 seems a bit odd. He needs towncred for when he busses Lady 2 down the line, this isn't consistent with a plan like that

If I had a readlist that has everyone at null is that shady?

I don't agree that that is what is happening in that reads list

Unrelated to that, I don't really like gent 2. Or at least I'm not confident in him being town. I think I psyched myself out because other people thought he could be town, but does anybody hard townread him and lady 4 both?

VOTE: Gent 2/Lady 4

Gent 5 was a big leader of the Gent 2 wagon, don't really see why he'd go out of his way to do that. My behaviour of sticking onto Gent 4 / Lady 2 until forced to vote elsewhere somewhat against my will makes more sense as a scum plan IMO. There was nothing saving Lady 2, you need towncred, not making memes and hardpushing Gent 2!

Also gent 2's read on me super shallow, no?

He came into the thread, saw I was pushing him, and then tunneled based off of that.

If you're town and you're doing nothing, am I really scummy for pushing you?

one example of Gent 5 going ham on Gent 2 (he does this a lot)

VOTE: Gent 4/Lady 2

I think Gent 4 has a decent chance of being scum.

BRO -- gent 5 is terrible at bussing Lady 2. Although this vote has an unusual circumstance -- he asked me in our PT who I prefer, and he'd vote there. I said I preferred G4/L2, so he supported me

I think I want 5-8 now. L8ghost's takes are lukewarm

Do you want me to convince you that this is a bad idea? What is lukewarm about her?

(Lady 1 is also town)

He's so protective over me!! Makes me happy but probably not as safe-feeling about his alignment as him suspecting me, if that makes sense

Lady 8 has thoughts about the game that feel real, and that don't seem to have an agenda attached. When you play as the mafia in this setup, you need to scumread other pairs to justify keeping your own pair alive. Lady 8 tends to townread a lot of people (which is also where I'm at) and has pairings to make it to the end which doesn't include our pair. And has extras that she needs to sort through on top of that, it's not how I expect scum to play the setup.

As I mentioned, I've been thinking the same things as her/agreeing with her as well. And that makes me trust her more as well - she has a lot of good opinions, and I don't expect scum to emulate that as effectively.

The counterargument to the above points would be that she is simply trying to appear as town for the finale. I don't think the way she is going about this game is indicative of that, though.

She reads as genuine to me in the pt, including frustrations with people criticizing the way she plays, which feels genuine (lady 1 also did this).

Reading her posts since dance start, there's nothing that makes me believe she is scum, only things that are neutral, and things which seem town indicative. And posts with good tone.

I don't think not having strong stances is scummy here because she is discussing things and this game state is hard and it makes sense, and scum can just force reads anyway - there's no reason to keep waffling when it's drawing the ire of other players.

This is a really good towncase on me. But I might be biased. Let me know if you're reading this and disagree, but it does make me feel better. Seeing this does remind me that i am
somewhat disproportionately towny to Gent 5 as compared to how other people read me

G5 can you do me a readslist please?

[Lady 1, Lady 3, Lady 7, Lady 8]
[Gent 1, Gent 6, Gent 9, Lady 6]
[Gent 3, Gent 4, Lady 2]

Something like this I want to eliminate the Gent 4/Lady 2 pair less than what it looks like here

Don't really know why he includes the extra comment at the end if he's trying to bus Lady 2.

OK but like, I was pushing gent 2 earlier. Why does my vote being off at the time matter?

His pushback to Lady 5's dislike of my pair seems a little much for scum. Like Lady 5 was saying that we should be removed in the event L2/G4 flips town (albeit, for a really far-out reason). I don't see why scum Gent 5 has to worry about that so much. Town Gent 5 however would know he's in a T-T pair and wants to contest Lady 5's bad reasoning. Scum Gent 5 doesnt have to care. We watch as Gent 5 comes off a little defensive, and as scum he has no reason to be.

sure, i respect that.
do you think g4 is scum or just wrong?

I think he's definitely suspicious.

Gent 5 continuing to call Gent 4 scummy

no elim is my current preference
eliminating 2-4 is my second

No reason for Gent 5 to push for no-elim here as scum. I really think he'd have just gone on Gent 4 (or Lady 2) for the extra points.

Why are people suspicious about me?

Lady 3 said it best here:

G5 is towny enough I think and has a kind of, anti-charisma adjacent style that I don't think comes from a scum mindset. e.g. like waltzing into today asking why he was suspected still resonates with me as a really strange thing to do as scum who's basically set to f2*2. I'll trust whoever's around later to sort this out but he doesn't feel like scum.

I'll happily leave

Don't leave.

Please don't immediately leave if 3-6 is town

I point the finger of suspicion at gentleman 1

agree

[Lady 8]

im just waitin on Gent 1 to show himself so if he's town i at least gave him a chance to give thoughts

[Lady 8]

I really just need to be certain Gent 5 is town and then he can take me in his arms and we win the game.

♡♡♡♡♡♡♡

[Lady 8]

Spoiler: Partial Gent 1 comments

We only need to correctly identify 1 T-T pairing to win, right? Then yeah, that sounds pretty solid.

Here's that "townslip". In hindsight I suppose mafia could be just as unaware how the setup works as town, the role PM doesn't actually explain anything past "You are mafia".

It is decently fluffy and reads that aren't terribly hard to craft as mafia past there for the rest of Sans' ISO. Nothing strongly making me think he's town

I don't trust Lady 1.

2 and 4 aren't as good.

Sidenote that this post seems good for Lady 1 rule of threes wise and it'd be somewhat odd if Gent 7 puts both his scumpartners as ones he distrusts the most

Yeah actually that doesn’t read as any sort of recognizable agenda with that correction, still not a fan of the damage control but it’s probably not enough to substantiate a vote rn

You'd think if G1 is town, after I corrected his suspicion of Lady 1, he'd try to find where scum actually is (after expressing it's not enough to warrant a vote)

The Lady 1 obsession only gets greater from here though

i would hesitate to call certain people in that group town

i don't have strong feelings about them being scum

it's not so important now though since theyre all paired now? i forget. fakegod's a lazy mod and hasn't updated stuff and i'm a lazy player who can't be bothered finding the proposals/acceptances

• 1. Gentleman 2
     
     
  2. Gentleman 4
     
     
  3. Gentleman 6
     
     
  4. Gentleman 7
     
     
  5. Gentleman 8
  1. Lady 1
     
     
  2. Lady 2
     
     
  3. Lady 4
     
     
  4. Lady 5

Our current unpaired folks.
Gentleman 4 has proposed to Lady 2, and she has shown an interest in accepting
Gentleman 8 is the ic

If lady 2 accepts, we're left with an elimination among the following players:

• 1. Gentleman 2
     
     
  2. Gentleman 6
     
     
  3. Gentleman 7

I haven't accepted G4 yet, but I feel like I've waited long enough for anyone who wanted to voice an objection.

Gentleman 4, I graciously accept your offer to dance.

I was just posting about that, Gent 8. At this point in time, Gent 7 is still unpaired and Lady 2 pairs with Gent 4.

I'm not sure how to feel about this. I don't think Lady 2 wants to pair with Gent 7, I felt like Lady 2, even though she gave time, didn't really consider what I and others had to say and went ahead with her pairing anyway

well G7 flipped mafia, kinda would be a point for L2?

I think Gent 1 misinterpreted something here, because this would be a point against Lady 2. This interaction is really spicy

well G7 flipped mafia, kinda would be a point for L2?

Why would that be a point for L2?

why would scum just leave their partner out to dry just like that? It seems rather foolish, do you think the mafia would have been hurt more by them pairing than losing a number immediately?

I disagree with this, mafia would totally leave their partner out to fend for themselves and ensure they dont accidentally have to force each other to be together towards the end. I wonder if Nagito was arguing in bad faith here cause I really dont see his view on this

Of course, Gent 5 had it deadly accurate. Which either means he's awesome or he's scum and knew exactly what Lady 2 was thinking because they're partners -- and he used it to bus her. i'd be sad in that case

okay I got mixed up since both 2s paired with both 4s

Ah okay he indeed misunderstood.

Gentleman 5 and Lady 2 are the most suspicious here.

I’m honestly more interested in G5 since several have expressed interest in L2 and I already have a bit of an opinion on L2, though it’s rather predicated on other conclusions.

More interested in flipping G5 than L2

But I also think it's my duty to do what I think is right and not just try and aimlessly conform idk.

Ok, it's my duty to make sure people don't sheep you on this one.
Might have to legit vote G2/L4 which is probably unoptimal at this point. We also might want to consider a G5 scum world.

I don’t like this post, feels like steering the target

Don't know why Gent 1 would cast suspicion on Gent 4.. if Gent 1 is scum, is he going to start a bus?

VOTE: Lady 4

Fine L3 I'll place the vote for you.
Whatever let's move the game forward, even if I think this is bad.

don’t do this. Despair is not what is needed from you now.

G8, my current reads of much strength at L7 and L5 as town, and L1 as scum. I don’t exactly have a lot outside these though

Reminds me of Gent 6's strongest reads. Nagito pretty much just has the consensus ones, plus his signature L1 scumread

Lady 8, if I leave and flip town, are you willing to leave the dance right next?

what on Earth prompted this mental turnaround

No concrete answer, probably. Why are you still asking this?

maybe because you’re asking a very serious question with real consequences and doing nothing to ante up? Show some spine if you’re going to play like this

Game is stagnant FYI. Resistance for wagon movements and perpetually confbiasing reads are huge red flags for a proscum gamestate. If anyone's willing to challenge this gamestate, I already offered the options.

why aren't you making the effort to change the situation?
I might not even need to ISO G2 to form a solid read on them, they're clearly acting out of self-interest here.

Gent 1 has a bunch of posts shading/scumreading Gent 2, he's definitely into getting that wagon removed. It feels like scum Gent 1 is interested in saving Lady 2. I'm guessing his plan would be to remove g2/l4 -> convince us of Lady 1 scum ?

how awful L1's takes were.

could you expand on this?

I feel like L1 was wildly accusing people and playing a hard AtE facade to cover her ass
I went back into her ISO to make sure this was the initial logic and there's a good post by G4 summing up my wind accusation point

why is Lady 1 just calling random people wolfs...

and her reaction to this is

why is Lady 1 just calling random people wolfs...

Why is Gentleman 4 commenting on something like this instead of finding the wolves! See what I did there?

no actual rebuttal, just playing the victim.

also with my recent callout towards G9 I'd like to mention there's some interesting associatives in L1's ISO for those two as well

and like the more I read her ISO the more I see in specific that I don't like, so if when I hit the point where I'm ready to give a full case, people want a case, I'll give it

Really stretchy case on Lady 1 based on literally a joke. But does Gent 1 believe it though?

The rest is L1 tunnel and the one vote on G4/L2 blablabla whatever

[Lady 8]

Gent 1 doesn't have a strong agenda in his early-to-mid posting. I could definitely see his lady 1 pocket scumread and pushing Gent 5 off the bat today could be scum-motivated though

I could interpret his interactions with Lady 2 as kind of awkward or unsure what to do abt her, he mostly doesn't talk abt her (like we all pretty much do) but he does shade her a bit from time to time

He did have a tendency to suspect places other than her (Gent 2, Lady 1, Gent 5) but he didnt have positive words for her, which is to be expected tbh

[Lady 8]

Like do the 3 of us (being L8/G6/myself) think there's a wolf in our pair:? No? Then we win regardless let's just stop stressing over it. Because I don't feel like stressing over this game myself anymore

BUT WHAT IF THERE IS

then what do we do!?!?!

[Lady 8]

If if is you lady eight I am going to wail like my daughter is right now after I took away her "toy" clump of cat hair.

likewise

I am almost to the point where Gent 6 and Lady 1 are tied for towniness

I'd probably go like

TOWN
LADY 1 - GENT 6
GENT 5
--
GENT 1
SCUM

[Lady 8]

VOTE: Gent 1

[Lady 8]

What if it's Lady 7, beeboy is just great at scum, and that's why we're hardly coming up with anything? That'd be nuts

I forgot to even include Lady 7 in my reads because i forgot she existed so reaally if she's scum I would just be totally blind to it

[Lady 8]

I've never been in a Xylo as a decider. The handful of times I survive to the end of a game, I'm irrelevant to the game losing elim or i AM the game losing elim

this is stressful to me in particular because it feels like the final decision in a G6/L1 + G5/L8 Xylo would be largely on me to determine whether or not we trust Gent 5, and if i pick wrong we literally all lose

[Lady 8]

i am decently happy with how this game played out

As long as Gent 5 is town, he somehow managed to propose to me in virtually the most appealing way possible (to me at least)

I thought i was doing a bad job gamesolving and couldnt project town because of it, so i felt guilty our pair was getting suspected towards middle of first dance

Turns out the scum just wasnt active in the thread, so that figures

I was extremely excited we made it to second dance with a scumflip to boot. Turns out, the second dance is NOT all it's cracked up to be

and now there's the possibility we go to the extremely scary final two pairs which i didnt see coming in a million years

BUT all we need to do is get rid of G1/L7 and that doesn't happen. Definitely

[Lady 8]

Urge to leave rising

don't u pull a Gent 9 / Lady 3 on me !!

[Lady 8]

Those are decent odds I guess

[Lady 8]

Gent 5 agrees Gent 1 is scummiest, i believe he entered with that pretty early today and w/o me saying it first

love where are youuuuuuuu

[Lady 8]

i heavily resent the openwolfing if you're scum Lady 1 !

[Lady 8]

ily Gent 5 (´>ω<`)♡ !

[Lady 8]

Anonymous is the only way to play this setup i think

Even if you make no attempt to conceal your posting style like i do

[Lady 8]

Anonymous is the only way to play this setup i think

Even if you make no attempt to conceal your posting style like i do

as in, "i dont conceal it"

[Lady 8]

I was actually thinking it wasn’t you because there was like a quirk in your posting I’d never seen before! But guess I was wrong :C

I cut out the emoticons until the very end in the vain hopes it would hide my identity for some amount of time

But despite putting on a creepy profile picture, i still got branded as cute

And I still got accused of using cuteness as a scum gimmick!!!! agaiN!!! How!?!?!?

Albeit, Gent 9 changed his mind in the end. ty gent 9

[Lady 8]

Also why am I incapable of alt guessing unless it’s like specifically hectic alts

(And apparently if it’s S_S)

I, too, have no idea who anyone was except for Hectic

[Lady 8]

-I intend to put in work this game.

I swear I've heard someone say this phrase before. but i do not remember who it was

[Lady 8]

Everyone in dead thread thought you were dunn @G5

They were right

ohhhhhhhhhhhh

Your profile picture reminded me of Dunn's but i was not familar enough with the way you speak! i had a lovely time playing with you!!

[Lady 8]

im pretty sure Isis has scumread me in every single game we've ever played together and this was no exception

she did, however, go without bullying me for the entirety of the game and even gave me a very flattering pokemon chart. So i'll accept that as a peace offering ^ω^