Redneck Mafia GAME OVER PARTNER!

[Bingle]

he was literally taunting us pver not participating in his proddodges

I'm here to taunt Vecna about my lack of participation and tunnel gobbledygook, and I'm all out of gobbledygook's to tunnel.

[Bingle]

Claim:



Am I doing this right?

[Bingle]

I'm interested in A50's and EJ's cases on my slot, why DGB is voting Alch, why ONLY DGB is voting Alch, and consensus reads.

I'd also like predictions from EJ, Vecna, and A50 on what my read on them will be once I've caught up. I will probably not be fully caught up until after the night phase.

[Bingle]

Lavender and Iec seem to be tied at 4, although I might endorse a TL flashwagon.

VOTE: Iec

Puts Iec in the lead at 5.

[Bingle]

Lavender and Iec seem to be tied at 4, although I might endorse a TL flashwagon.

VOTE: Iec

Puts Iec in the lead at 5.

My read on TL is conflicting.
Like they are villagery at parts and scummy at other parts.

Elaborate? I voted Iec over lab mostly because TL was on lavs wagon so it’s 100% relevant.

[Bingle]

Esp when JK is part of the newbie setup.

[Bingle]

Who're the scums?

You for one



Oh shit I revealed my secret scumread that tripped my 90% scumtell. Don't bother engaging with me on this if you're going to drag me into some toxic-ass screaming.

Bingle very likely replaced into a scum slot.

Talk more about me. I like it when people talk about me.

[Bingle]

PE: What the actual, why should I protect a 3p who can’t die anyways?

It’s actually not a bad choice.

If alch corroborates your claim then you become very likely town (scum jk is very rare), two potential jks tomorrow is + equity, it prevents fakeclaiming alch from using a powerful role if he’s actually groupscum who needs to live for a few days and if town you’re likely a high priority nightkill anyway.

[Bingle]

Talk to me about Doctor drew, somebody

Spoiler: All you need to know about Dr Drew

David Drew Pinsky (born September 4, 1958), commonly known as Dr. Drew, is an American media personality and internist, addiction medicine specialist. He hosted the nationally syndicated radio talk show Loveline from the show's inception in 1984 until its end in 2016. On television, he hosted the talk show Dr. Drew On Call on HLN and the daytime series Lifechangers on The CW. In addition, he served as producer and starred in the VH1 show Celebrity Rehab with Dr. Drew, and its spinoffs Sex Rehab with Dr. Drew, Celebrity Rehab Presents Sober House. Pinsky currently hosts several podcasts, including The Dr. Drew Podcast, This Life with Dr. Drew, Dr. Drew After Dark on the Your Mom's House network, and The Adam and Drew Show with his former Loveline co-host Adam Carolla.

Pinsky is a former staff member at the Department of Chemical Dependency Services at Las Encinas Hospital in Pasadena, California, and Huntington Memorial Hospital. He currently maintains a private internal medicine practice in South Pasadena.

I hope that helps

Also he rolled cult this game.

[Bingle]

Bingle, you can skip the first 25 pages. I did and I'm doing fine lol

No reason to with a night phase to catch up, but thanks for the thought. I’m probably gonna high effort for a few days because throwing myself into a mafia game is a decent way for me to fight lethargy and I’m only in the one atm.

[Bingle]

Alchemist is likely lying, but in a way that is consistent with his claim.

I support leashing lab to him 100% right now.

[Bingle]

Could there be a scum jk? Sure. Is it likely there’s a scum jk? No.

I’d prefer if we could save the (doesn’t match what I’d expect of people claims) conversation until at least after the night phase given that it’s particularly likely to out vts to the scumteam.

Lavender, please respond to my reasoning on jailing Alch.

[Bingle]

People = pr. Fuck ac.

[Bingle]

1593 and 1598 are not a good look.

[Bingle]

Vecna A50 and chk fairly solid town, btw.

UN needs pressure.

TL probscum.

EJ might be town based on the first few pages.

[Bingle]

@Lav

If alch corroborates your claim then you become very likely town (scum jk is very rare), two potential jks tomorrow is + equity, it prevents fakeclaiming alch from using a powerful role if he’s actually groupscum who needs to live for a few days and if town you’re likely a high priority nightkill anyway.

Additionally, your role gets stronger the longer the game lasts. You’re very unlikely to stop a kill tonight, both because of the number of viable kills and the fact that in a baker game (Especially one with a 3rd party indicating a large number of targeting roles) scum likely have some measure of interaction with our prs.

2 JKs tomorrow, on the other hand, means a far higher chance to actually prevent a kill.

If you’re town, scum can’t predict you, and scum can’t interact with you, you probably just die.

If you go into the night leashed to alch, a vig shot is more likely to go through, pseudo confirming the vig when/if they claim.

[Bingle]

Oh, kuribo alt. NVM, that’s probably town.

[Bingle]

I’ve read a total of ten pages. I thought you were a newb, and self conscious posting is a strong new scum tell. Sue me.

[Bingle]

No worries. It takes a lot more than that to summon up the blood beneath this fair nature.

[Bingle]

Town does not have a ninja cop, a tracker, and a jailkeeper.

Hm.

UNVOTE:

[Bingle]

The game is Baker-level bastard.

IME this means things like Janitors and cults but not things like death millers and quack doctors.

tl;dr, your role pm is probably trustworthy.

[Bingle]

I am pretty puzzled at people being conflicted about eliminating me vs Lavender. I feel like I'm playing my standard game, and people usually read me as obvTown. I know the site meta has probably drifted in the past few years, but.

FWIW, I remember feeling like I had PR-slipped when I got upset with A50 for his vague statements about PRs. I realized that I was probably unduly sensitive to it because of being a PR. I didn't explain my feelings at the time because I didn't want to add insult to injury.

Pedit k

If you get the chance, who would you expect to read you better specifically?

[Bingle]

We're going to fucking no lynch, aren't we?

Honestly? I'm not sure how opposed I would be to no lynch with an even playercount and less than 24 hours to read the thread.

I'll vote in a minute after I look at the wagon comp again though.

[Bingle]

I kinda think they're both town, tbh.

I also think you're being exceptionally useless with your 3p tunnel.

[Bingle]

Yeah, I'm pretty okay with day ending without a death right here.

[Bingle]

I'm not convinced Iec is scum, but I'm not willing to end the day on no lynch either

I was, FWIW.

[Bingle]

It's a figure of speech I've been using for a lot of years


I always bet the left one first

This implies that you've lost the left one, proceeded to bet the right one, and regained possession of the left one. I'm going to assume this to be true.

Also, what are your current thoughts re: me?

[Bingle]

I'd bet my left nut there's at least one scum that was watching the thread and didn't post

I'm interested in this thought, and would like to know more.

I'm decidedly not interested in the angle of "Who was actively pushing wagons?" unless you're going to go into what about the individual pushes was scummy.

I can get behind the idea that all of chk, logical, and TL look bad for similar reasons. The flippy wagon seems like a shit push from where I sit.

I fully intend to ignore Alch's existence today as a lynch target, with the sole exception of pointing out that role as claimed he actively wants to lynch scum because scum is more like than not to kill the PR's he needs to win the game. If he's groupscum, he's probably a reflexive roleblocker. I'm fine with letting him have a day to scumhunt and prove himself useful.

[Bingle]

Gross.

[Bingle]

Why are you so focused on how people are reading you??

?

I usually am preoccupied about talking about me. It makes it easier to weigh whether a push is genuine if I can remove variables. In this particular case I'm not particularly interested in talking about how I think people should be reacting to me before they commit to a reaction on me, but I do think at least one such take is weird.

[Bingle]

Hows the reread coming bingle? Did you read all the thread during night? How should we interpret your posts? Knowledgeable to the fullest, clueless on past events, or something in between?

Full skim, nothing in depth.

[Bingle]

Thanks for not saying what I gave you by the way. Keep it a secret.

Hmm.

[Bingle]

VOTE: Temp Lich

[Bingle]

DGB
Vecna
A50
chkflip
UN
Logic
Pooky
Drew
Pisskop
EJ
Galron
TLich

Roughly where I stand. The middle ground is shaky as hell, but I'd say everything chk and above is fairly solidly town and I'd be shocked if neither Galron nor TLich were scum.

[Bingle]

Literally nothing about your play is towny.

[Bingle]

and that's some pretty mediocre deepwolfing

FTFY

[Bingle]

I'll case you when I feel like it. The flail is real.

[Bingle]

Hey logical. Do you think you are obvtown to the point where scumreading you or questioning your alignment is a scumclaim?

[Bingle]

I was gonna post tonight, but it's now 3 AM and I don't want to be up til 8 again.

Later nerds.

[Bingle]

We need blink tags for the players here that think Iecerint would have targeted the claimed third party.

Objectively, it was the right play to target Alch there.

If Alch is fakeclaiming, he gets a guilty.
If Alch is trueclaiming, there's a possibility his role gets used to town's benefit.

It's a win/win, regardless of his belief in Alch town, exactly like aiming a vig at Alch was when you naysayed that.

If you're going to tunnel to the exclusion of all else and be all around useless, please actually make sense while doing it. If you'd like to maybe win a game of mafia, there are in fact other players to interact with and form reads on.

[Bingle]

Bingle - pretty strong scumreads on that slot. That readslist was just too easy. No real process. Thats not how town bingle replaces in and parses shit. Not buying it. The reads are too easy, theres no suspicion, and im not buying that bingle EZ-townreads the CHK slot just like that.

It's cute how you think you can read me.

[Bingle]

Spoiler: Walls for the Wall God, Skulls for the Skull Throne

I'm starting to get frightened at how fast the Pooky wagon is getting in

RVS

Any reason besides Doctor Drew naked SRing Pooky... oh wait 26 is a scumclaim.

Somehow I feel this makes Pooky feel towny.

Alchemist's claim don't make no no sense.

This reads fake as fuck.

I might post a lead rist once I have a decent idea of everyone, but I'd still put null or nullish on the majority of the slots right now (lavender strikes me as nullish, it's still early D1)

Hey guys, just wanted to let you know at some point I will do something useful.

gobble's ISO is a bunch of nothing

Just popping in to not be useful, guys.

Yeah, let's not quick hammer, those possibilities would allow for such weirdness to come from town

What the fuck even do? Let's not quickhammer? What? This is so LAMIST it hurts.

At this point Pooky's associated with DGB so much the only thing that will get me to TR pooky is a DGB town flip.

So let's eliminate DGB

This is hot garbage. "Pooky is cozying up to DGB and acting weird, so we should lynch DGB." This isn't a town idea. A surface level town thought would be "Pooky is cozying up to DGB and acting weird, so Pooky is scum." A deep level town thought would be "Pooky is cozying up to DGB and acting weird, so I should poke Pooky to see what his reactions are." Notice how town doesn't ever think, Player A is being all weird, I should totally lynch player B for it? And if they flip town, that will totally clear the player that's acting weird! That's because that idea is fucking bonkers.

it's called Pooky is blatantly buddying with DGB and town DGB will redeem Pooky

Why can’t scum Pooky be buddying Town DGB?

do you really think scum Pooky would fake an inno?

This is revisionist reasoning. TLich wanted to lynch DGB first based on Pooky before the inno on DGB became clear. It's not a real set of reasoning. It's something that sounded like it might be reasonable in the current gamestate but was clearly NOT the reasoning TLich actually had. Also, why the fuck is WK-ing town (note, a classical scumtell for some) something that you'd townread pooky for? TLich isn't a raw newbie who has never seen scum defend town, so this is clearly a pile of manure being sold as a pile of gold.

ebwop: no vote

is good

right now

So I'm locked into a position of having to choose the least bad vote... in D1 where unvoting is actively scummy and voting No Elim is pretty much a scumclaim

This is entirely self serving and entirely self conscious. This post is never about finding scum. This post is about want to not appear scummy. There's a faction that has wanting to not appear scummy as their primary motivation, but for the life of me I can't remember what it is. Maybe Replicants?

here's a quick lead rist, don't send me to the aether if it's wrong because I skimmed everyone's ISO for this:

TR

TL

NT

HN

NS

SL

SR

3P

[Town]

DrippingGoofball

- Has a claimed inno by Pooky, no reason to doubt said inno as of now.

Logicalicaltist

- With great pushing and town initiative this is the townie we need.

PookyTheMagicalBear

- The GIFposting reduces content but I have a feeling the informed claim is true so I am putting this at townlean level.

Almost50

- Still seems like his towny self, but I have a feeling A50 is more reserved here.

chkflip

- He's starting to look more promising as time goes on...

pisskop

- Memey but an ISO skim looked content-rich.

Iecerint

- A decently good ISO, 423 is probably a good post.

Lavender

- Not much content in the ISO but I feel a townish vibe.

Alchemist21

- Claimed townsiding 3P, I don't have a reason to doubt this.

username

- I'm not sure what impression I get from the ISO. At least it's content-rich.

Pine

- Unreadable due to lack of game-related info, defaulting to hard null (assuming V/LAishness here)

gobbledygook

- Lurker with contentless ISO, 126 is approaching info but actually isn't info

Doctor Drew

- Memey, totally not concerned with appearances. However his content looks a little scummy.

Elsa Jay

- I don't like the ISO. Sorry, but I just don't. It doesn't ping me town.

Vecna

- I really don't like the ISO, the readlist is bad in light of future info and 696 feels abrasive to me

[Scum]

VOTE: Vecna

This.... has 0 analysis. Reads 1 and 3 are literal mechreads. chkflip was uberscum, but has apparently slingshotted into the top of the readlist based on ???? The rest of this post seems to be all about ranking people entirely by how much content they've given. you could replace every single sentence describing why he feels how he does with gut and not lose any information. There is no attempt to interact with or build reads on any of the people in this list forthcoming.

A lead rist for the crazy mess that is D2:

TR

TL

NT

HN

NS

SL

SR

3P

[Town]

DrippingGoofball

- Has a claimed inno by Pooky, no reason to doubt said inno as of now. Still trying to push an Alchemist exile though.

Logicalicaltist

- Town leader, on a scummy trend D2 so take with a grain of salt.

PookyTheMagicalBear

- The GIFposting reduces content but I have a feeling the informed claim is true so I am putting this at townlean level. Hasn't posted yet in D2.

Almost50

- Still seems like his towny self, but I have a feeling A50 is more reserved here.

Galron

- Laid-back townie who contributes content to the game.

pisskop

- Memey but an ISO skim looked content-rich.

Vecna

- Starting to look very towny now.

Alchemist21

- Claimed townsiding 3P. Apparently logical got roleblocked? Alch might be fakeclaiming, but this will resolve itself D3.

Doctor Drew

- Seeing an upward trend here.

username

- I'm not sure what impression I get from the ISO. At least it's content-rich. Neutral trend here.

Bingle

- Feels like Bingle to me, yep. This isn't TRable though.

Elsa Jay

- Still as scummy as ever, might even be on a downward trend.

chkflip

- Votes with scummy intent, also D1 got stalled to heck and back despite his pushiness so I think that was planned as well.

[Scum]

First of all, lets talk about this town leader nonsense. A town leader is someone who is actively directing the thread and pushing things forward, which is... Exactly not what Logical is doing. Logical has been poking people, sure, but there has been very little attempt at organization from him and even less of an attempt to set himself up as the voice people are listening to.

There's also very little reasoning attached to any of this, other than the incredibly vague "seeing an upward trend here", so let's play a little game:

TLich, what posts at the time were showing an upward trend in your DD read? What posts from Vecna looked very towny. Where has Galron contributed content, and what about that content makes him so town?

If someone thought to be a town leader ends up being scum, they're not a town leader because they weren't town... and that's some god tier deepwolfing

This is blatant buddying of Logical. he's not giving reasons that logical should be townread, he's repeating that he's a "town leader" over and over again to defend him. Note: "Because he's town" is not a valid reason to townread someone. Now if I were TLich, I would see this weird as fuck buddying and go, huh, Tlich is being weird around Logical, I should probably vote logical. Oh, wait no, that's completely insane.

If you're just trying to throw a look of shade at me I'm not swayed by your vote

This is gross as fuck. I've been pretty open about scumreading TLich for a while, and this is a slimy attempt to deflect my vote away from him. This is a step down from literal OMGUS, and a clear failure to interact with someone in an attempt to form reads. He doesn't question, he doesn't wonder, he doesn't engage, he throws shade in a preemptive attempt to derail any push on him by accusing his pusher of attempting to throw shade.

and you have ludicrously high standards for deepwolfing... you might as well be an openwolf if you want to play the bad logic game

"Not agreeing with me about the townread I've never actually explained on the player who isn't actually universally townread is openwolfing."

chkflip has pretty much pushed every wagon D1, so chkflip is looking to lime town with votes. chkflip then goes to call my voting pattern bad when I'm trying to vote my honest scumreads, but pushing is not one of my strong suits (yeah I need to get better at pushing, not trying to look town with an "appeal to newness").

also 1921 is a bucket of setup spec and mod-WIFOM, and it's used to portray logical as

mechscum

, which is what scum wants.

So yeah I have a strong scumread on chkflip for trying to outguess the mod in a

bastard

setup and assigning a freaking

mechscum

read from it.

Oh god, this.

First of all, chk is scummy because he was attempting to push people. What? What garbage level reasoning is this? Pushing reads is scummy?

Second of all, chk is scummy because of the people he's pushed. Let's look at that list, shall we? Pooky, (TLich thought Pooky was scummy for interactions with DGB) DGB (TLich wanted to lynch DGB too), TLich (Which was what shot chk from scum to townread before the first readlist), my Slot (TL thinks I'm hard null, but apparently pushing my slot for content when gobbles was hard lurking is a scum motivated maneuver), Iec (who was scummy enough to get lynched) and Lavender (who chk later hard defended based on the role PM slip thing). TLich also pushed Pooky, DGB, Iec, Lav, and my slot. That's not real reasoning, that's a joke.

Third, chk is scum for thinking that tracker and ninja cop are more likely not aligned. What.

TLich's entire push can be boiled down to I think chk is scum because he was wrong, and not only that, but town TLich doesn't know chkflip was even wrong. Not that being wrong is a scumtell at all, given that the faction with information is not the town in the first place. As TLich himself has pointed out, there are worlds where DGB and Pooky aren't town (which is scummy in itself, btw). TLichtown should have no way of knowing whether the push on gobbles was on town or scum. TLich was just as wrong as chk on all of the same people, with the exception of himself if he's town. And chk's setup spec, while not particularly compelling, is very obviously a reasonable thought to have.

but actually most of my read comes from the VCA, which doesn't look town-motivated

but voting logical makes sense if you believe logical is mechscum for whatever reason

Oh, wait, TLich admits that his entire push is just about chk pushing all the same people he did.

Spoiler: Corroborating Votecounts, for your convenience

Vote Count 1.02

PookyTheMagicalBear (3): votato, DrippingGoofball, Almost50
DrippingGoofball (3): Alchemist21, TemporalLich, Vecna
Almost50 (2): Doctor Drew, PookyTheMagicalBear
Vecna (1): Logicalicaltist
Lavender (): Iecerint

Not Voting (6): Lavender, gobbledygook, username, Pine, Elsa Jay, pisskop

With 16 alive, it takes 9 to blast someone!
Day One ends on Saturday, July 11th at 10:30pm EST in (expired on 2020-07-11 22:30:00)

Vote Count 1.09

gobbledygook (5): chkflip, Almost50, Doctor Drew, TemporalLich, Elsa Jay
Alchemist21 (2): DrippingGoofball, Iecerint
Lavender (2): username, Logicalicaltist
Almost50 (1): pisskop
chkflip (1): Vecna
Logicalicaltist(1): Alchemist21
TemporalLich (1): PookyTheMagicalBear

Not Voting (3): Lavender, gobbledygook, (Pine slot)

With 16 alive, it takes 9 to blast someone!
Day One is paused with 2 days remaining while I seek replacement for Pine.
I believe I have someone in the works so it shouldn't be long.

Vote Count 1.11

Iecerint (7): Vecna, chkflip, PookyTheMagicalBear, Logicalicaltist, Bingle, Almost50, Galron
Lavender (5): username, Alchemist21, TemporalLich, pisskop, Iecerint
Bingle (2): Doctor Drew, Elsa Jay
Alchemist21 (1): DrippingGoofball

Not Voting (1): Lavender

With 16 alive, it takes 9 to blast someone!
Day One ends on July 14th, 2020 at 9:00pm EST in (expired on 2020-07-14 21:00:00)
DGB has gotten the BIG prod.

Vote Count 1.12

Iecerint (6): Vecna, PookyTheMagicalBear, Logicalicaltist, Almost50, TemporalLich, chkflip
Lavender (6): Alchemist21, pisskop, Iecerint, Galron, Elsa Jay, Doctor Drew
Alchemist21 (1): DrippingGoofball

Not Voting (3): Lavender, username, , Bingle

With 16 alive, it takes 9 to blast someone!
Day One ends on July 14th, 2020 at 9:00pm EST in (expired on 2020-07-14 21:00:00)

Note: TLich did not vote Pooky long enough for it to show on a votecount. He most definitely did push Pooky as scum with DGB, as was addressed in my wall.

Teal Deer:

TLich's play has all been about seeming to be town. His pushes are fabricated bullshit, his stances are vague garbage, and his thought processes are inherently not town thought processes.

[Bingle]

With regard to the chk/logical fight, my best guess is that it's a TvT.

chk's townslip reaction comes across as very genuine. His setup spec, while something I disagree with strongly, is a completely reasonable take ("Why would there be a ninja cop AND a town tracker?!?!?!" is a very town thought), and the tunnel is incredibly genuine. He's playing an "Aha! Gotcha!" game, but he's doing so in a way that leads credence to the idea that he does actually believe he caught scum with their pants down, which ime is fairly hard to fake. Even pointing out the obvious softclaim from Logical makes complete sense in the case that chk thinks Logical is scum, and scum chk wouldn't want the additional kneejerk scumminess from outing a PR (even an obvious one) when he was already engaged in a loud 1v1. His thought processes are consistent and if you read him holistically there's a clear progression. He's not posting trying to look town, he's pushing things and actively trying to figure shit out. He's abrasive about it, sure, but this is EXACTLY what good townplay looks like.

Logical is a lesser read, but it boils down to a few things. His "Why would you out me as tracker" when he'd been obviously softing tracker is exactly the kind of town PR reaction I'd expect. His reaction to the townslip conversation doesn't seem out of a town's wheelhouse. (I'm assuming chkflip had seen something about formatting and didn't give a shit, so I've largely ignored that, although more power to him if he wants to continue pushing to dig up something there.) He also seems like he's being pretty blatantly pocketed by TLich, which is a good sign that he's not scum with the lich. I also think his reaction to my loaded question was more town than scum.

[Bingle]

It seems like you're trying to paint me as scum, but you're just saying my reads suck and therefore I've spewed myself scum somehow

Not only did you just prove you didn't read my case at all, you also fully described your own push on chkflip.

Nice.

[Bingle]

It seems like you're trying to paint me as scum, but you're just saying my

reads suck

and

therefore

I've

spewed myself scum

somehow

I don’t think anyone directly said that but...
“Your

reads suck

Therefore

you

spewed

yourself

Scum

.”
Now someone has.
You may continue and expand on your argument now.

I mean...

Are you seriously suggesting we eliminate the town leader over setup spec? Congrats, you're now scum spewed

[Bingle]

I’m just more inclined to believe Chkflip is scum here over TL.

What do you think of my townreasoning for chk?

[Bingle]

For clarification to any town players reading along, I never said TLich was scum because his reads were bad. I DID say that TLich saying chk was scum because his reads were bad when they were mirrored by TLich's reads is scum indicative.

[Bingle]

I probably missed it but what was his full Town read on me again?

Spoiler: Every post where he discusses his read on you via cntrl f of his D1 ISO and deleting posts that were literally responding to you. I stopped when I got to today.

logical's entry is pretty meaning well

elsa's is alright maybe maybe

my vote is currently staying on DGB

here's a quick lead rist, don't send me to the aether if it's wrong because I skimmed everyone's ISO for this:

Logicalicaltist

- With great pushing and town initiative this is the townie we need.

I mostly agree with your townreads in the lead rist (Elsa is not towny though!), I'm not sure why you didn't think Galron was null-townie or why your read on Vecna changed. Also you putting logical, the town spearhead, as scummy is pretty much a scumclaim.

I'm saying Logical is the town leader because they have been obv!town during Day 1.

Their D2 play is such a swing from left field and scummy that it's shocking. But we're not far into D2 yet so I'm giving Logical the benefit of the doubt.

[Bingle]

Oh, and chk? The reason I don't think the tracker/ninjacop thing is a S/T pairing by setup is because it makes more sense for town to have a negative utility interaction to offset 2 investigations than for scum to have a role geared towards finding investigations that can't find the cop.

I have no problem believing a plethora of targeting roles given Alch's claim (Either he's telling the truth and there need to be a lot to give him a chance to win or he's lying and scum probably have a lot of actions to make him think it was a viable fakeclaim in the setup).

[Bingle]

Pooky (yeah Pooky is scummy enough for me to distrust the claim, DGB still town tho), PK, Vecna, and maybe Doctor Drew

Hot take: not a bad list. Firmly disagree that this is how scum Vecna approaches me, but this is probably your towniest post in the thread.

[Bingle]

If the cop claims a guilty the tracker who saw no movement is going to counter claim and say their result is bullshit, and probably get the cop lynched in the process (See: Logical's reaction to the ninja cop claim).

Tracker is never going to out a no visit to save someone before endgame because "didn't perform the nightkill" is like the weakest result you can get.

Compare: Tracker sees cop target player B and then town read player B. Cop flips without claiming, tracker has reliable information about a clear. Cop gets run up. Tracker knows cop has a role that targets and doesn't kill, corroborating the claim.

It's not a miller, but it's close to a Tracker miller. And miller cop is a thing that has been used to nerf multicop setups in the past.

[Bingle]

Pooky (yeah Pooky is scummy enough for me to distrust the claim, DGB still town tho), PK, Vecna, and maybe Doctor Drew

Meme with a female if you think that a scumread on you is unreasonable because you'd never gambit an inno.

Meme with a male if you think the list is bad for some other reason.

Meme with both if this is just a "I'm town" post.

Meme with neither if I'm missing something.

[Bingle]

Bingle is town.

Shhh. I'm trying not to get nightkilled over here.

[Bingle]

Okay, let's go this direction.

VOTE: pisskop

Givin me bad MM2 vibes here, bud.

I assume this means you think I'm wrong on TLich. Why do you think he's town?

[Bingle]

I also like not getting NKed. Its pleasant being alive.

I am currently of the opinion that you're scum. Thoughts?

[Bingle]

Okay, let's go this direction.

VOTE: pisskop

Givin me bad MM2 vibes here, bud.

I assume this means you think I'm wrong on TLich. Why do you think he's town?

Funny enough He votes me, votes TL and then votes PK.

I don't have a particular issue with any of those actions (and have in fact talked about why in 2/3 cases), and if he has a reason to townread TLich that I haven't considered I'd be interested in hearing it. I'll admit the turnaround on TL seems weird.

[Bingle]

che?

I want to know what EJ thinks about my thoughts on him, in order to develop further thoughts on him. I'm unsure where your confusion comes from.

[Bingle]

Ah. Carry on then.

I'll treat your pisskop vote exactly like I'm treating Vecna's Gal vote. A good vote that exists independent of my case on TLich.

[Bingle]

I'm unsure where your confusion comes from.

I mean, I havent read since . . . daystart? I think its only been a phase

It's more that that post seems fairly self explanatory than any particular expectation that you know the nuance behind my EJ read. I'm aware that you're not caught up, and while I'd like the insight I know you're capable of providing as town, I'm not holding my breath for that.

Do you think that me thinking EJ is scummy is noteworthy? Do you have any thoughts on EJ? I see you're sheeping me on TLich, was there anything specific about the case you thought was important, or did you arrive at the read for some other reason? What do you think of my chk towncase?

[Bingle]

With regard to the chk/logical fight, my best guess is that it's a TvT.

chk's townslip reaction comes across as very genuine. His setup spec, while something I disagree with strongly, is a completely reasonable take ("Why would there be a ninja cop AND a town tracker?!?!?!" is a very town thought), and the tunnel is incredibly genuine. He's playing an "Aha! Gotcha!" game, but he's doing so in a way that leads credence to the idea that he does actually believe he caught scum with their pants down, which ime is fairly hard to fake. Even pointing out the obvious softclaim from Logical makes complete sense in the case that chk thinks Logical is scum, and scum chk wouldn't want the additional kneejerk scumminess from outing a PR (even an obvious one) when he was already engaged in a loud 1v1. His thought processes are consistent and if you read him holistically there's a clear progression. He's not posting trying to look town, he's pushing things and actively trying to figure shit out. He's abrasive about it, sure, but this is EXACTLY what good townplay looks like.

Logical is a lesser read, but it boils down to a few things. His "Why would you out me as tracker" when he'd been obviously softing tracker is exactly the kind of town PR reaction I'd expect. His reaction to the townslip conversation doesn't seem out of a town's wheelhouse. (I'm assuming chkflip had seen something about formatting and didn't give a shit, so I've largely ignored that, although more power to him if he wants to continue pushing to dig up something there.) He also seems like he's being pretty blatantly pocketed by TLich, which is a good sign that he's not scum with the lich. I also think his reaction to my loaded question was more town than scum.

His townslip reaction came across as genuine?

It did somewhat to me, untill he just pointed out it was because of the header in the role pm, and not -those other things-. Which every scum would likely also have. Which chkflip, which does some modding work at times, would know quite well.

So what about that looks genuine, and not just "scum seeing town say things that he can point to being "obvtown" even though those things in particular are not, whatsoever?

And ill continue to be cute thinking I can read you. Especially if your reaction to it is doing exactly the thing youre accused of having ommited from your play (thought process).

I still feel the entire case on lich is more "finding words to describe what is wrong with his logic" rather than using logic to determining whether that comes from scum or town.

VOTE: Bingle

You think chk's townslip reaction was manufactured? Disregarding the validity of said slip, point to where in his responses you don't think he'd genuinely found a reason to hard town read Lav?

As far as "chk does modding and would know fakeclaim protocol," I think I'm actually more well versed on that than you. Chk is in fact a mod. His most recent completed modded game was MM2, in which the scumteam notably had no access to a fakeclaim pool OR a sample town PM and in which flavor gaming was actively encouraged. Since then, he has backup modded, reviewed or helped with a few, but they tend to by and large be open setups. He literally just finished backup modding my only recent scumgame, a Grand Idea (Which for the record TLich was the mod for, which is why I think his "Bingle is Bingle" meta supposition isn't strange from someone who does not actually know me very well). Before that, he was backup for the abandoned EISAL2 (I was a replacement, but in name only. The game ended before I could post), a game in which cult me didn't have a fake claim. Chk is an old school mod, and I can 100% see him not expecting a scum fakeclaim to exist.

Pooky (yeah Pooky is scummy enough for me to distrust the claim, DGB still town tho), PK, Vecna, and maybe Doctor Drew

Hot take: not a bad list. Firmly disagree that this is how scum Vecna approaches me, but this is probably your towniest post in the thread.

This also once again greatly puzzles me, for town-bingle would call out the inconsistency that I did in the above post.

If hypocrisy was the core of either argument, sure, I'd call it out. It's not. I agree with you that hypocrisy is a notoriously difficult tell to pin down the alignment of without extensive meta. There are players for whom it is a town or scum tell, but I don't know which category TLich falls into.

I think TLich is scum because he's faking his reasoning, he's playing a "I don't want to die" game, and he's . I think that post is potentially town indicative because of the specific names. Pooky is as close to a universal TR as possible, PK is hard lurking, Drew is lynchbaity and you're one of the noisiest players in the thread who didn't already suspect him. In one post, he risked being gone after for trying to lynch obvtown, lurkers, LHF, and alienate you, which is a pretty notscum thing to do.

You can vote me all you want, his reasoning on every case he makes is exactly the same type of "sound-good" reasoning he uses as scum.

When you can easily follow Bingle's logic and you think this guy is sounding so credible he's very likely scum trying to get a mislynch pushed with good sounding reasoning.

When he's town he is much more often applying level 2 logic to see things differently.

He's trying to make you see CHKflip as town based on flimsy reasoning. Lavender did not TOWNSLIP due to the stuff in the role pm. Bingle stating that chkflip is town for stating that is BAD mechanical and social reasoning.

He was trying to push a scumcase on TempLich based on templich flipping his opinion and reads all over the place, being hypocritical in his stances, and attacking other people over stuff he does himself. A townbingle knows that that shit is likely to come from town much more often than scum. A scum Bingle knows that that shit is also very likely to get people mislynched because people applying level 1 logic think thats a good reason to lynch people.

But, if you think you really know him that well that you can tell the difference between a town bingle and a scum bingle (note: you probably cannot ever, unless you've played at least 5-10 games with him)................then you should probably sheep his read, because he is right about one thing: I wouldnt be gunning for him if I was scum.

TLDR: Youre applying level 1 logic and not giving Bingle any type of credit in his ability.

This, for all it's flaws and misunderstandings about me and my cases, is inherently a townpost.

[Bingle]

Someone or someones is lying.

Or there's a busdriver and I gave Iec credit where credit wasn't due.

Busdriver doesn't satisfy the mixup, Alch's claimed role should still have seen, stopped, and absorbed the busdriver.

[Bingle]

In fact, do some homework yourself, and compare the replace-ins:

viewtopic.php?f=56&t=82769

The process in that game is a lot more course, interrogating, asking questions, parsing dialogue.

Here he just comes in, throws some comments, and then suddenly has a readslist.

When I question him on it, he suddenly prepares a giant wall on the guy that is hardpushing CHKflip.

I would like to point out that the circumstances of both replacements were very different. That game was mechanics heavy and nearing endgame, with multiple investigation results from my slot and a deadline of more than 24 hours. This game was not, and didn't have time for me to dig deeply and greedily into the motivations of players before the end of day one.

They are in fact very different, though.

[Bingle]

I mean... theoretically yes there could be a non targeting busdriver, but that'd be a variant off of a role that is already rare as fuck and OP as hell, something I find unlikely. It's far more productive imo to just ignore the alchemist interactions for the time being and play like Alchemist's information is untrustworthy.

[Bingle]

Giving role PM information as part of a fakeclaim packet would be incredibly fucking strange. It isn't something I'll hard town now, since it's already happened, but I also took Lavs experience into factor when coming to my conclusion.

SOP for fakeclaims nowadays is a full town PR rolecard for each individual scum fakeclaim, complete with formatting and flavor, as well as a sample VT rolecard somewhere in the OP.

[Bingle]

I think TLich is scum because he's faking his reasoning, he's playing a "I don't want to die" game, and he's .

I broke a sentence while editing for readability, apparently. This should be "...and he's actively avoiding sharing his thought processes."

[Bingle]

case A50 for me bingle.

Mostly gut, tbh.

I can fabricate a case either way or point at the posts I liked if that'll help though.

[Bingle]

most contentious slot

I'm not convinced you know what that means.

Drew isn't 'contentious' at all in that I'm fairly certain no one has expressed a strong read on him in either direction. If anything, he seems to be a consensus meh read.

He's not a bad cop shot, I guess, but actually contentious slots that are potentially useful if conftown would be better imo.

You, chk, and I all satisfy this criteria.

Objectively, the mechanically correct cop target is Pooky, although I would be moderately upset if Pooky were copped.

Regardless, we are 110% not leashing Alchemist nor allowing him to publicly state his intended target, and talking about who he should target is bad because doing so gives scum more latitude to play around night actions using anything from a potential rolestopper to the nightkill to fuck with proceedings should they need to.

[Bingle]

I mean... I am an ass, so you're at worst the second worst person in the thread by that metric.

PEdit: @ Gal

[Bingle]

@ Everyone (minus un, who has a legitimate reason) who has not engaged with my push on TLich... Why not? If you're townreading him, why?

VOTE: pk


Bingle's would lynch pool:

TLich, pk, gal, Drew, EJ

[Bingle]

my point exactly, scum is hiding at least 50% in the towny looking people

I mean... Yes, there probably is a deep wolf, but I don't think now is the time to worry about that. Who do you consider the towny looking people? Are you saying we're at the point where we should be offing in that pool?

[Bingle]

There's a pile of players who are very low impact. There's a case on TLich. Alch is 3ping up in the 3p house. Vecna thinks I'm scum. Vecna also thinks scum is mostly in the active and gamesolve-y portion of the thread, and also seems to think there's a very large consensus town pool, which tbh I don't particularly agree with. I'm strongly townreading a few players, but open to talking about pretty much anyone.

My best advice for diving in would be to look at the me/chk/TLich/Logical engagement or to pick a slot and try to push for content.

I'm still interested in what you think of the fact I think you're more likely to be disengaged scum than disengaged town, as well.

[Bingle]

UNVOTE:

Let’s take the chance for the lurker slots to actually talk about their thoughts while playing is getting replaced, thanks.

[Bingle]

That's an objectively shit vote.

[Bingle]

It really isn't. Mine says I'm voting Thun in spirit, and just want to get /something/ from lurkers before EoD. Yours says you're voting someone who is never going to be lynched today and NOT casing him, while completely ignoring all of the people actively not contributing to the thread.

Thun, claim.

[Bingle]

I’m interested in TLich autobelieving the claim in light of two flips and supposedly being a PR himself and a tracker claim and a Informed that DGB is town claim.

[Bingle]

gadzooks

Elsa is not a vig

also a good spot

He also softclaimed generic PR.

What the fuck is going on?

Pooky’s just gifposting and I’m a 3p that needs Actions used on me. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.

Ill target you

I'm not really a fan of the claim, both for the fact that even night vig doesn't really preclude an odd night vig like pk's crumb was hinting at (that's exactly the kind of symmetry mods love to use), PK's complete lack of clarification regarding the Alchemist role today (marginally explained by the fact he hasn't done shit), and chk's point wrt a lack of flavor in the claim.

I'm MORE not a fan of the reactions to it. I am 100% convinced there is scum in our PR claims. I was vaguely hoping for a VT claim, as that would have been majorly inconsistent with pk's play.

[Bingle]

I can almost see the mod using "vigilante" just because I don't have the imagination to know what to replace it with. BUT I would think he'd make an effort to do so. Another BUT: Elsa's been a liar from the beginning and User digging up 1403 gives me pause. Otherwise my vote would be on Thun right now.

Here's where I am. The whole Alchemist, Elsa, Logic, Iecerint debacle is a CF, and there's no intent to sort it today. Whatever. I think letting it go another night is a mistake. With this Thun claim and the Elsa claim (Elsa says she still "gave" Alchemist something and Alchemist says she's trolling -- who's zooming who?) I want to fake kill Elsa because she's common to both situations. If not, she's just going to mess with us tomorrow, and everyone knows that something is going to happen with this 3P deal where something is going to go sideways and he won't be confirmed again. If we're not going to oust the alleged 3P then let's at least get rid of one of the components close to that situation and close to the Thun claim.

If Alch is a player in the game on D4 I'll vote him. If he's not, IDGAF.

Why is it you try to bring every conversation back to the claimed 3p instead of looking for actual groupscum?

[Bingle]

VOTE: TLich

[Bingle]

Getting rid of scum...?

[Bingle]

oh, your vote is an actual one.

Please give me a summary of your feelings about me, because your vote looks like a naked vote seemingly put on to pressure me to claim (which I'm not doing until I'm in the tent, as in I'm at E-1 and someone intends to hammer)

I posted a case on you not long ago, which I have since repeatedly asked people to engage with. I have since expressed that I didn't like your reaction to Thun's claim. One could surmise that my feelings on you are those expressed in the case I posted on you and that I don't like your reaction to Thun's claim. I don't think you're an idiot, and this feels like you're trying to play one with this frankly useless line of questioning.

[Bingle]

My give a fuck meter is very nearly empty, tbh. My willingness to lynch in my named list is unchanged. My case remains. Hopefully I'm less demotivated and can provoke content soon, but you're probably not getting anything meaningful today. Sorry.

[Bingle]

Nothing else. Bingle hasn't really posted since I arrived.

I mean... I posted plenty just before you arrived. It comes and goes in waves.

[Bingle]

Titus, your VCA on me lacks context. The wagon on me was entirely formed of a lurker push because my slot was doing literally nothing, and disappeared when it became apparent that the slot was being replaced.

chkflip, Almost50, Doctor Drew, TemporalLich, Elsa Jay

This was the peak of the wagon, and it was doomed the moment I replaced in, because my slot was basically an empty slot before that. Two wagons forming on town in the absence of strong reads after a substanceless push is derailed by replacement is pretty much expected, because the substanceless push means town didn't have a clue what to do BEFORE the replacement, regardless of my slot's alignment.

Additionally, I'm about as obvtown as I can ever get right now, so trying push my lynch is going to be an uphill battle.

I'd be interested in your take based on this additional context.

[Bingle]

Reposting for visibility.

Who wants to engage this time around?

Spoiler: Walls for the Wall God, Skulls for the Skull Throne

I'm starting to get frightened at how fast the Pooky wagon is getting in

RVS

Any reason besides Doctor Drew naked SRing Pooky... oh wait 26 is a scumclaim.

Somehow I feel this makes Pooky feel towny.

Alchemist's claim don't make no no sense.

This reads fake as fuck.

I might post a lead rist once I have a decent idea of everyone, but I'd still put null or nullish on the majority of the slots right now (lavender strikes me as nullish, it's still early D1)

Hey guys, just wanted to let you know at some point I will do something useful.

gobble's ISO is a bunch of nothing

Just popping in to not be useful, guys.

Yeah, let's not quick hammer, those possibilities would allow for such weirdness to come from town

What the fuck even do? Let's not quickhammer? What? This is so LAMIST it hurts.

At this point Pooky's associated with DGB so much the only thing that will get me to TR pooky is a DGB town flip.

So let's eliminate DGB

This is hot garbage. "Pooky is cozying up to DGB and acting weird, so we should lynch DGB." This isn't a town idea. A surface level town thought would be "Pooky is cozying up to DGB and acting weird, so Pooky is scum." A deep level town thought would be "Pooky is cozying up to DGB and acting weird, so I should poke Pooky to see what his reactions are." Notice how town doesn't ever think, Player A is being all weird, I should totally lynch player B for it? And if they flip town, that will totally clear the player that's acting weird! That's because that idea is fucking bonkers.

it's called Pooky is blatantly buddying with DGB and town DGB will redeem Pooky

Why can’t scum Pooky be buddying Town DGB?

do you really think scum Pooky would fake an inno?

This is revisionist reasoning. TLich wanted to lynch DGB first based on Pooky before the inno on DGB became clear. It's not a real set of reasoning. It's something that sounded like it might be reasonable in the current gamestate but was clearly NOT the reasoning TLich actually had. Also, why the fuck is WK-ing town (note, a classical scumtell for some) something that you'd townread pooky for? TLich isn't a raw newbie who has never seen scum defend town, so this is clearly a pile of manure being sold as a pile of gold.

ebwop: no vote

is good

right now

So I'm locked into a position of having to choose the least bad vote... in D1 where unvoting is actively scummy and voting No Elim is pretty much a scumclaim

This is entirely self serving and entirely self conscious. This post is never about finding scum. This post is about want to not appear scummy. There's a faction that has wanting to not appear scummy as their primary motivation, but for the life of me I can't remember what it is. Maybe Replicants?

here's a quick lead rist, don't send me to the aether if it's wrong because I skimmed everyone's ISO for this:

TR

TL

NT

HN

NS

SL

SR

3P

[Town]

DrippingGoofball

- Has a claimed inno by Pooky, no reason to doubt said inno as of now.

Logicalicaltist

- With great pushing and town initiative this is the townie we need.

PookyTheMagicalBear

- The GIFposting reduces content but I have a feeling the informed claim is true so I am putting this at townlean level.

Almost50

- Still seems like his towny self, but I have a feeling A50 is more reserved here.

chkflip

- He's starting to look more promising as time goes on...

pisskop

- Memey but an ISO skim looked content-rich.

Iecerint

- A decently good ISO, 423 is probably a good post.

Lavender

- Not much content in the ISO but I feel a townish vibe.

Alchemist21

- Claimed townsiding 3P, I don't have a reason to doubt this.

username

- I'm not sure what impression I get from the ISO. At least it's content-rich.

Pine

- Unreadable due to lack of game-related info, defaulting to hard null (assuming V/LAishness here)

gobbledygook

- Lurker with contentless ISO, 126 is approaching info but actually isn't info

Doctor Drew

- Memey, totally not concerned with appearances. However his content looks a little scummy.

Elsa Jay

- I don't like the ISO. Sorry, but I just don't. It doesn't ping me town.

Vecna

- I really don't like the ISO, the readlist is bad in light of future info and 696 feels abrasive to me

[Scum]

VOTE: Vecna

This.... has 0 analysis. Reads 1 and 3 are literal mechreads. chkflip was uberscum, but has apparently slingshotted into the top of the readlist based on ???? The rest of this post seems to be all about ranking people entirely by how much content they've given. you could replace every single sentence describing why he feels how he does with gut and not lose any information. There is no attempt to interact with or build reads on any of the people in this list forthcoming.

A lead rist for the crazy mess that is D2:

TR

TL

NT

HN

NS

SL

SR

3P

[Town]

DrippingGoofball

- Has a claimed inno by Pooky, no reason to doubt said inno as of now. Still trying to push an Alchemist exile though.

Logicalicaltist

- Town leader, on a scummy trend D2 so take with a grain of salt.

PookyTheMagicalBear

- The GIFposting reduces content but I have a feeling the informed claim is true so I am putting this at townlean level. Hasn't posted yet in D2.

Almost50

- Still seems like his towny self, but I have a feeling A50 is more reserved here.

Galron

- Laid-back townie who contributes content to the game.

pisskop

- Memey but an ISO skim looked content-rich.

Vecna

- Starting to look very towny now.

Alchemist21

- Claimed townsiding 3P. Apparently logical got roleblocked? Alch might be fakeclaiming, but this will resolve itself D3.

Doctor Drew

- Seeing an upward trend here.

username

- I'm not sure what impression I get from the ISO. At least it's content-rich. Neutral trend here.

Bingle

- Feels like Bingle to me, yep. This isn't TRable though.

Elsa Jay

- Still as scummy as ever, might even be on a downward trend.

chkflip

- Votes with scummy intent, also D1 got stalled to heck and back despite his pushiness so I think that was planned as well.

[Scum]

First of all, lets talk about this town leader nonsense. A town leader is someone who is actively directing the thread and pushing things forward, which is... Exactly not what Logical is doing. Logical has been poking people, sure, but there has been very little attempt at organization from him and even less of an attempt to set himself up as the voice people are listening to.

There's also very little reasoning attached to any of this, other than the incredibly vague "seeing an upward trend here", so let's play a little game:

TLich, what posts at the time were showing an upward trend in your DD read? What posts from Vecna looked very towny. Where has Galron contributed content, and what about that content makes him so town?

If someone thought to be a town leader ends up being scum, they're not a town leader because they weren't town... and that's some god tier deepwolfing

This is blatant buddying of Logical. he's not giving reasons that logical should be townread, he's repeating that he's a "town leader" over and over again to defend him. Note: "Because he's town" is not a valid reason to townread someone. Now if I were TLich, I would see this weird as fuck buddying and go, huh, Tlich is being weird around Logical, I should probably vote logical. Oh, wait no, that's completely insane.

If you're just trying to throw a look of shade at me I'm not swayed by your vote

This is gross as fuck. I've been pretty open about scumreading TLich for a while, and this is a slimy attempt to deflect my vote away from him. This is a step down from literal OMGUS, and a clear failure to interact with someone in an attempt to form reads. He doesn't question, he doesn't wonder, he doesn't engage, he throws shade in a preemptive attempt to derail any push on him by accusing his pusher of attempting to throw shade.

and you have ludicrously high standards for deepwolfing... you might as well be an openwolf if you want to play the bad logic game

"Not agreeing with me about the townread I've never actually explained on the player who isn't actually universally townread is openwolfing."

chkflip has pretty much pushed every wagon D1, so chkflip is looking to lime town with votes. chkflip then goes to call my voting pattern bad when I'm trying to vote my honest scumreads, but pushing is not one of my strong suits (yeah I need to get better at pushing, not trying to look town with an "appeal to newness").

also 1921 is a bucket of setup spec and mod-WIFOM, and it's used to portray logical as

mechscum

, which is what scum wants.

So yeah I have a strong scumread on chkflip for trying to outguess the mod in a

bastard

setup and assigning a freaking

mechscum

read from it.

Oh god, this.

First of all, chk is scummy because he was attempting to push people. What? What garbage level reasoning is this? Pushing reads is scummy?

Second of all, chk is scummy because of the people he's pushed. Let's look at that list, shall we? Pooky, (TLich thought Pooky was scummy for interactions with DGB) DGB (TLich wanted to lynch DGB too), TLich (Which was what shot chk from scum to townread before the first readlist), my Slot (TL thinks I'm hard null, but apparently pushing my slot for content when gobbles was hard lurking is a scum motivated maneuver), Iec (who was scummy enough to get lynched) and Lavender (who chk later hard defended based on the role PM slip thing). TLich also pushed Pooky, DGB, Iec, Lav, and my slot. That's not real reasoning, that's a joke.

Third, chk is scum for thinking that tracker and ninja cop are more likely not aligned. What.

TLich's entire push can be boiled down to I think chk is scum because he was wrong, and not only that, but town TLich doesn't know chkflip was even wrong. Not that being wrong is a scumtell at all, given that the faction with information is not the town in the first place. As TLich himself has pointed out, there are worlds where DGB and Pooky aren't town (which is scummy in itself, btw). TLichtown should have no way of knowing whether the push on gobbles was on town or scum. TLich was just as wrong as chk on all of the same people, with the exception of himself if he's town. And chk's setup spec, while not particularly compelling, is very obviously a reasonable thought to have.

but actually most of my read comes from the VCA, which doesn't look town-motivated

but voting logical makes sense if you believe logical is mechscum for whatever reason

Oh, wait, TLich admits that his entire push is just about chk pushing all the same people he did.

Spoiler: Corroborating Votecounts, for your convenience

Vote Count 1.02

PookyTheMagicalBear (3): votato, DrippingGoofball, Almost50
DrippingGoofball (3): Alchemist21, TemporalLich, Vecna
Almost50 (2): Doctor Drew, PookyTheMagicalBear
Vecna (1): Logicalicaltist
Lavender (): Iecerint

Not Voting (6): Lavender, gobbledygook, username, Pine, Elsa Jay, pisskop

With 16 alive, it takes 9 to blast someone!
Day One ends on Saturday, July 11th at 10:30pm EST in (expired on 2020-07-11 22:30:00)

Vote Count 1.09

gobbledygook (5): chkflip, Almost50, Doctor Drew, TemporalLich, Elsa Jay
Alchemist21 (2): DrippingGoofball, Iecerint
Lavender (2): username, Logicalicaltist
Almost50 (1): pisskop
chkflip (1): Vecna
Logicalicaltist(1): Alchemist21
TemporalLich (1): PookyTheMagicalBear

Not Voting (3): Lavender, gobbledygook, (Pine slot)

With 16 alive, it takes 9 to blast someone!
Day One is paused with 2 days remaining while I seek replacement for Pine.
I believe I have someone in the works so it shouldn't be long.

Vote Count 1.11

Iecerint (7): Vecna, chkflip, PookyTheMagicalBear, Logicalicaltist, Bingle, Almost50, Galron
Lavender (5): username, Alchemist21, TemporalLich, pisskop, Iecerint
Bingle (2): Doctor Drew, Elsa Jay
Alchemist21 (1): DrippingGoofball

Not Voting (1): Lavender

With 16 alive, it takes 9 to blast someone!
Day One ends on July 14th, 2020 at 9:00pm EST in (expired on 2020-07-14 21:00:00)
DGB has gotten the BIG prod.

Vote Count 1.12

Iecerint (6): Vecna, PookyTheMagicalBear, Logicalicaltist, Almost50, TemporalLich, chkflip
Lavender (6): Alchemist21, pisskop, Iecerint, Galron, Elsa Jay, Doctor Drew
Alchemist21 (1): DrippingGoofball

Not Voting (3): Lavender, username, , Bingle

With 16 alive, it takes 9 to blast someone!
Day One ends on July 14th, 2020 at 9:00pm EST in (expired on 2020-07-14 21:00:00)

Note: TLich did not vote Pooky long enough for it to show on a votecount. He most definitely did push Pooky as scum with DGB, as was addressed in my wall.

Teal Deer:

TLich's play has all been about seeming to be town. His pushes are fabricated bullshit, his stances are vague garbage, and his thought processes are inherently not town thought processes.

I’m interested in TLich autobelieving the claim in light of two flips and supposedly being a PR himself and a tracker claim and a Informed that DGB is town claim.

[Bingle]

Who should I shoot then?

Mechanically?

Alch and Pooky are inarguably the most powerful shots.

Alch is a claimed 3p who wouldn't die to your kill but would be able to corroborate your claim if he's realclaiming, since he's supposedly not immune to the scum nightkill, just non factional roles. If he's fakeclaiming, him flipping scum over the night phase is a very good look for you. The drawback here is that it puts potentially puts a vig into Alch's hands and DGB has been hard tunneling him, but town should have bought enough goodwill with Iec targeting him (and you targeting him in the case that you choose this route) that he should have enough gratitude to the faction actually helping him achieve his wincon to make his parting shot useful to them.

Pooky is a largely empty slot with a claimed innocent result on DGB but without the potential for future innocent results. Flipping him confirms that innocent result, and the claim itself is a strong one to be used by scum. Not to mention that it really doesn't fit with what we've seen of the setup. OTOH, scum claiming such an off the wall role when it would also not fit a scumteam designed to interact with Alch's claimed role is pretty meh. Pooky has been throwing his weight behind wagons despite not posting anything other than gifs in a way that feels town, and the gimmick is NAI as it was public before the roles went out.

Subjectively?

Galron and EJ.

Galron has been doing fuckall, except scummy pop ins to look like he's solving. EJ has been doing fuckall fullstop, and is a pseudo CC to you (although nobody believed it at the time and no one believes it now). Even thinking TLich is scum, I can admit that he's active enough that it's far better to wagon him and see where the chips fall than to have him be shot in the night. The same is true of Logical/myself/chk/Titus/Vecna. We're in a position where town's biggest struggle is activity, and so shooting a lurker is >> shooting a non lurker.

UN has a reason to be lurking, and is otherwise fairly towny. I'm gut reading A50 as town, but his lack of recent memorable contributions is raising eyebrows to a certain extent. He's a far worse shot than either of the others by my reckoning, but that is fairly subjective. DGB has a conditional inno (Pooky town => DGB town).

[Bingle]

Vecna, what are your thoughts on Titus pushing me? I find it odd that you've been largely silent on that front since she repped in, despite thinking I was scum fairly recently.

[Bingle]

Alch and Pooky are inarguably the most powerful shots.

I mean... The context of mechanically is important there. Hence the rest of the post.

[Bingle]

Time to trap Bingle.

Hey Bingle, how many scum are we likely dealing with in this setup?

Given mod spec and my belief that some of the PR claims are bogus? 3. Could be 4 with a stacked as fuck town, but iirc Flavor tends to lean to smaller scumteams and has a large amount of influence on TB.

Why?

[Bingle]

Huh, I was assuming I'd be voting Galrond today because I couldn't get any traction on the Lich wagon.

Time to go see what's changed.

[Bingle]

What do you make of Chk giving you a complete pass on everything, while he is actively attacking others over the same shit?

I've noticed that with the prematurely asking for claims bit. Could you point out where else he's doing it?

I'm the reason Thun claimed at L-3 and you were the only one who raised an eyebrow.

[Bingle]

pretty fucking forgettable.

Pretty sure I have the lowest fluff percentage of anyone ITT, and I've been near constantly solving, but okay.

It definitely means asking for clarification from Vecna on what else he saw from you is an attack, targeted at you or otherwise.

[Bingle]

Yeah, I found it. I see that it's specifically an EJ hypocrisy thing and that you want to wagon EJ for it.

I'm pretty okay with that reaction, tbh.

[Bingle]

"that reaction" here being your wagon on EJ. I don't at all townread EJ at this point.

[Bingle]

I literally just said I understand and agree with wagoning EJ here, as well as your logic for going after EJ before chkflip.

[Bingle]

FWIW, I don't think this is scum Titus. She really struggled hard to put out content in GIdea and was no where near this proactive.

Grain of salt because we were scumbuddies on a sinking ship in that game, but it just feels completely different.

[Bingle]

Let's lynch Temp. Who should I shoot based on what he flips?

Whichever lurker you think is most likely to flip scum.

Regardless of everything else (and his alignment), chk is right that we have a lot of lurk and that needs to be addressed in order to keep the game state healthy enough to actually catch scum.

[Bingle]

Im convinced TL is going to flip town though

What do you think of his reactions to PR claims if he is indeed a PR?

Every time a PR claim comes up he shows absolutely no concern that it's a fakeclaim from my perspective. I agree that the emphasis on survivability does make sense from town PR, but literally everything else doesn't.

[Bingle]

Honestly this is where im at, and I think these reads are pretty controversial, but pretty decent

Town:

Vecna
Thun pisskop

TemporalLich

Logicalicaltist
PookyTheMagicalBear*
Titus Doctor Drew
DrippingGoofball*
Froppy username

3P:
Alchemist21

All scum in this pool?:
Almost50
Bingle gobbledygook
chkflip votato

Galron Pine
Elsa Jay

This list has a lot of overlap with my own. (bolded for comparison)

Also, I legitimately forgot monkey was in the game at all, and that's probably a giant red flag.

[Bingle]

FL is the game's reviewer and the mod knows him IRL.

[Bingle]

Broken clocks are never right if the display is digital.

VOTE: TemporalLich

At this point TL is E-2. Claim?

He's stated several times his intention to withhold his claim until he's at L-1 + intent. I think the plan is to drag things out so that we have a mad scramble at deadline again.

Tempted to Vote TL.
But someone could quick hammer.
If your not claiming TL and your something like Doctor.
I swear to Cthulhu I’ll haunt you in the afterlife.

If he claimed Doc I'd hammer. Seriously, who are you worried about lolhammering here who is not already on wagon? Not "It'll happen" but who specifically is going to do it?

[Bingle]

[Bingle]

TLich

Reaction to non E-1 Informed Townie Claim:

Spoiler:

Reaction to JK Claim:

Spoiler:

Reaction to non E-1 Ninja Cop Claim:

Spoiler:

Reaction to non E-1 Gold Goo Claim:

Spoiler:

Reaction to non E-1 Unspecified Goo Claim:

Spoiler:

Reaction to non E-1 Full Vig softclaim:

Spoiler:

Reaction to non E-1 Tracker Claim:

Spoiler:

Is somehow a strong PR, despite 0 paranoia over every type of strong claim.

TLich says town reaction to a non E-1 claim is:

Spoiler:

Note: A reaction that TLich has not had to any of the many non E-1 claims that should presumably show overlap with his role.

[Bingle]

Oh, I missed the even vig non E-1 claim. That was also fine.

[Bingle]

Vecna I know you're town but so is Bingle.

It's cool. I'm pretty sure the only time Vecna has ever townread me was the game where I was scum with Ceph and pk and they got N1 vigged and then literally scumclaimed ITT on D2 respectively.

[Bingle]

So...

Spoiler:

[Bingle]

NGL, I'm kinda surprised I didn't die over chk.

[Bingle]

Why, Titus?

[Bingle]

A lot of their interactions came across as TL trying to pocket LC to me. I have expressed this before. Thoughts?

[Bingle]

Thun, wanna respond?

[Bingle]

So before EoD (And yes, I do mean before E-1 we continue voting up to prevent a selfhammer) I want to hear from Alch and Thun.

I should probably also look at mechanical implications of roles we have.


Light setup spec says probably 2 remaining scum, definitely no more than 2, which means a LC/Thun 1v1 hard clears DGB. If pookyGB is a masonry as they've crumbed, that also hardclears pooky. Both are very town by their reaction to TL wagon yesterday. A 4.5 person scumteam with a conditional vig is way too much power for any 16p setup. I also need to colorize some VCs, I think.

Vecna looks a hell of a lot worse post TL flip, considering the strength of the TL role in scum hands. I think it's a safe assumption that chk was the bookie target for D2 as that would make sense with the claim and TL's approach to the game.

[Bingle]

Hey Thun go ahead and fucking shoot me toNight I'm pretty done with this shit show.

I'll shoot the racket tonight to prove myself.

@Almost50 @Elsa @Titus @Galron:

Why are you voting me? I can shoot chkflip tonight and potentially confirm myself. I'm aware scum could have a roleblocker, but if they do, it means they have to roleblock me (if I'm right on chk) over any other claimed investigatives or other roles. If I'm wrong on chk and they let me kill him, or if they don't have a roleblocker, I confirm myself. It's a win-win to keep me around for at least a night. Relocate your votes please.

Log is partner if this flips scum. They hard focused on me in fucking tandem at the beginning of the day. That's not coincidental.

Pedit: I already claimed modified vengeful town, yes.

I kill who kills me.

I mean... That's kind of irrelevant until Thun comes and claims his shot.

[Bingle]

Provisionally based on claims going the way I assume they will go, this is roughly where I'm at.

Bingle
DrippingGoofball
Thun
PookyTheMagicalBear
Elsa Jay
Froppy
Titus
Galron
Vecna
Logicalicaltist

Alchemist21

[Bingle]

If there are three scum remaining I'm going to have harsh words for Boon at the end of the game. Scum having control of 3 kills and a 4.5 person scumteam in a 16p game is nonsense.

(Relooking at the A50 flip, he was a vig in addition to a traitor.)

[Bingle]

Alright, I'm gonna peace out until we've heard from more people. I don't see continuing to push LC as particularly useful without people who I need to sort reacting.

[Bingle]

Actually, I have a question for anyone, what are the chances that there is a mafia role cop? My idea might not work depending on the answer.

Near 0 based on claims.

[Bingle]

I have doubt it’s the truth, but am not discounting the possibility. I’m actively avoiding commenting on it until thun talks.

[Bingle]

Iirc, your defense of chk came after mine and definitely after my push on TL. Do you agree with that recollection? I’ll be going back to check when I’m not mobile. Your dismissal of my case on TL as surface level reasoning and strong defense there for reasons you never really explained are my main thoughts about you looking worse in light of the flips, although tbh I’m having trouble reconciling your nonassociative play with being scum at all.

[Bingle]

For anyone that needs clarification, blasting is my replacement for the L-word. The elimination. Not a night kill.

Dammit, DEB. I had a reason for asking via PM.

[Bingle]

Take care Titus. <3

[Bingle]

was promised cookies. I want my cookies

Hm.

[Bingle]

Anyone who was responsible for the A50 death should claim. Anyone with an impending death by biscuit that they know about should claim.

I expected thun, regardless of alignment, to claim the A50 death. The fact that he didn’t is very eyebrows. I should probably take a look at who would nk him here.

I don’t particularly buy into the theory of scum signaling A50 via ‘cookie’. For one thing, nothing in A50’s flip mentions a loud component to his power. Vecna’s cookie post was early D1, and was in fact the first usage of cookie in the thread. I intentionally removed the context to see if anyone would jump on Vecna for it, but if you want to check for yourself it was roughly around post 400.

In order for A50 to be signaling he’d poisoned himself and the scumteam to be able to know they’d been targeted he’d have to be informed his role backfired by the role he targeted, and he thus would have targeted an announcing self voyeurizing reflector. That’s a lot of moving parts and assumptions, and we have two external goo claims that really don’t jive well with the narrativ.

If logical is town, there is necessarily a scum role blocker. RB/GatedVig/VariantReflector/poisonertraitor is a weird scumteam in what we know/have claimed of this setup. Pooky is non targeting. The reflector would be a godfather, scum would have up to 3kpn and there’s a functional miller in the 3p. If instead of RB it’s a tracker that’s not much better, and there’s no reason for there to be a ninja modifier on the cop if there’s no tracker at all.

Thun may well be town

because

he shot chk (which we can assume he did unless the scumteam is exactly LC/Thun) because chk was claimed as SS/Bomb combo going into the night and it’s a risky maneuver to shoot that as scum. It was a bad shot because chk was pretty obvtown at that point, but more the kind of bad shot that comes from town not understanding the game than scum imo.

I’m going to sleep on this, but that’s roughly my thought process atm.

[Bingle]

Floppy if you haven’t done so please claim your flavor.

[Bingle]

Floppy if you haven’t done so please claim your flavor.

The belt buckles distract from your disappointing groin.

The only thing I haven't shared is this and my name which I don't think matters at all, not exactly sure what flavor is.

Floppy!

Name is what I’m after. It probably doesn’t matter, but please humor me.

[Bingle]

Why are you trying so hard to frame one part of my theory as an improbability to dismiss the whole thing?

I’m really not. I’m trying to critically think through it instead of blindly following the results, and my impressions are A) it’s a really tinfoily theory that would be moderately difficult at least to come up with as scum faking town. And B that the signaling premise seems unlikely at this point. If it helps you feel better my elimination pool is roughly the same as the pool of people you think were signaling, so I’m probably going to help with your desired outcome despite my disbelief.

[Bingle]

I intend to post my reads and reasoning today, fwiw and would appreciate commentary despite whether you agree or not, btw. I think I’m a particularly likely NK and want my thoughts accessible.

[Bingle]

I don't feel comfortable sharing that because I'm not sure how to paraphrase it.

Very simply.

My flavor name is Jacob Harrison. Your turn.

[Bingle]

Vecna I wanna save the anime frog for last. Who else is scum again?

Assuming you mean solely on the basis of the slip logic and that you believe the slip logic, pisskop/thun is the one who is most suspicious.

Both LC and UN are far lesser strength.

If you're talking about in mechanically in general, LC has the most moving parts going on, followed by Thun, followed by Titus, followed by UN/Froppy.

[Bingle]

Mason Barber

Cool, cross replacement internal slot consistency is always nice.

[Bingle]

For reference, UN repeatedly claimed vanilly hillbilly D1 and D2 and I remember (but cannot find) a post where he said looking up his character's name led to an address. The flavor claim checks out with that.

As such (and given Vecna's rather helpful insinuation that I am a flavor cop, which I will neither confirm nor deny), I fully believe that to actually be Froppy's flavor, which means either A) scum have access to the vanilla role PM formatting (Likely) or B) Froppy is town.

I'm taking it as slight but not strong evidence of being town that Froppy's last name is not Rosewood. This is not by any means a mechanical clear. If in fact I am a flavor cop, I would like to make it explicit that I did not target Froppy or username at any point. I would in fact have targeted in pooky/DGB/Alch with a strong preference towards doing so in that exact order.

[Bingle]

Spoiler: Almost50

3rd Party

Paula Deen

You are a

Poisonous Traitor.

Your biscuits are world famous.
Their buttery flakes can make a man weep.

Each night you may give someone one of your poisoned biscuits.
This player will die at the end of the following night in which they receive the biscuit.

After losing to Bobbly Flay in a Country Fried Steak competition, you kinda lost your marbles.
You started becoming obsessed with a certain family of

Rednecks.

Their victory, means your victory.

@BAKER

: Please confirm/deny that any player who is targeted by this role would be notified if you can. Further, if you can, please share the content (flavor and mechanical information) of said notification. If you are unable to do this publicly, please assume I also sent this request via PM and respond as you would to such a request. Thanks, Mr. Croissant God!

[Bingle]

Thoughts by slot, roughly ordered by elimination preference (with Alch separate and at the top):

Spoiler: Alchemist21

Probably not fakeclaiming the 3p aspect of his role, and not something I find particularly worth exploring right now. DGB is right that this is likely not worth interacting with. I might reconsider this as a viable option if I awaken on the morrow (gamewise).

Spoiler: DrippingGoofball

I explicitly believe pooky's claim clears this. This is a hard clear unless the scumteam is exactly DGB/Pooky, and that seems incredibly unlikely at this point. If scum was going to try to clear a member of the team with a masons gambit, it would almost certainly be the role that could make extra kills. She should not claim unless doing so would solve the game for us.

Spoiler: PookyTheMagicalBear

I don't think this is scum, but with far less confidence than the DGB read. At some point today, we should probably get a family name flavor claim here based on the repeated assertion of familial connection being the reason behind the supposed masonry/informed status.

Spoiler: Titus

I've been a little disappointed in the lack of V/CA today, and honestly I haven't put enough attention into trying to read this. If Alchemist is winning tonight, he has no motivation to fake an innocent result and a lot of motivation to fake a guilty, and thus I will believe the inno tomorrow fullstop. If Alchemist isn't winning tonight I'm going to ignore the inno as there is no reason for him NOT to fake an inno (a faked inno makes him far less likely to eat a factional nightkill than a true guilty, which is the most pressing concern for 3p Alchemist). Titus is, regardless, off of the metaphorical table for today's flip.

Spoiler: Vecna

I don't think Vecna makes the kinds of logical leaps he's made as scum trying to fake a read. It's vaguely possible in my mind that Vecna is going down this rabbit hole of signaling because scum Vecna tried to signal the traitor himself D1, but given TL's role pm I would expect that signaling to be more based on butter than cookies. I would bet the game on Vecna town right now, and it would take something severe to get me to reconsider. I should go reread D2 to check that his characterization of the interactions jives, but honestly I probably won't because Vecna knows I'm the type of person who would normally do that busy work as either alignment and him doubling down on it probably means it's true regardless.

Spoiler: Froppy

I thought un's reactions were pretty town. I remember exactly the kind of in your face attitude towards him claiming early being scummy in Fogport, and it's internally consistent. The thread seems to corroborate Vanilly Hillbilly as the vanilla role, and I don't particularly think it's unlikely that there are multiple VTs. (At this point, Galron/Froppy/Titus have all claimed VT and of the three I think Froppy's is strongest, in point of fact. Vecna's point about overreliance on the flavorclaim actually seems pretty town from my POV (why would scum assume they're instantly cleared based on their claim when they're definitely scum?) I could still probably be talked into eliminating this, but it is my least favored option. My biggest concern here, actually, is that Froppy's flavor claim (shiny belt buckle) sounds exactly like the kind of flavor DEB would give a reflector.

Spoiler: Elsa Jay

Chaotic Neutral. Wait, we're talking mafia alignment. The claim came out of left field for the setup, and the content is disappointing. Unfortunately, EJ is bored with the game, and I can't get a real read on him unless he gets invested. I'd get rid of this for PoE reasons, but I wouldn't feel good about the odds of it flipping scum.

Spoiler: Galron

By play, I think this is the scummiest slot. It seems to be flying under the radar intentionally, while actively showing up to provide content that looks like busy work when it's mentioned. It also appears to be paying attention to the thread, but not actively pushing anything while keeping a distance from anything like making a hard stance. This would normally be a strong PR tell, but Galron made it clear in the Froppy VT claim aftermath that he is in fact claiming VT. I'm not fact checking at the moment, but based on play I'm fairly certain this is scum.

Thun and LC I've talked about previously. Thun shooting chk seems slightly town. LC didn't ring as particularly partner-y with TL to me. With those small caveats aside, these slots could both very well be scum, and probably more importantly, these slots are by far the best information choices for elimination. As much as I think Galron is a better chance of a red flip than either of these, a green flip in either of these is infinitely more valuable than a green Galron flip. Thun flipping green heavily implies that scum shot A50 in my mind, which would be super intriguing. LC flipping green and Alch not winning tonight lends a sense of urgency to figuring out the N1 missing tracker bit.

[Bingle]

Yeah, RL definitely takes priority. Getting the content would be nice, but make sure to take care of yourself first and foremost.

[Bingle]

The fact youre arguing with me over this very important topic, without actually going to read just those two-three pages and inform yourself of whether it is indeed blatant signaling or not.......

S’not the part I’m neglecting fact checking on. I’m neglecting fact checking on my recollection of the you/tl interactions.

I’m waiting on mod response to revise impressions on the slip, and think the first person to start the supposed signaling phrase would be the most likely to be caught by it.

As far as believing the flavor goes, I guess I was thinking that scum would have no reason to prepare to fakeclaim flavor early, but if they share a last name that’s kind of not true. They’d know flavor would be incriminating after a single scumflip, so that would probably have come up in the scum pt. Do you have a reason to suspect froppy that isn’t the slip?

[Bingle]

Do you really think The main problem with the competing wagons is that the deadline poisons them is a natural sentence anyone would use?

I mean... It's a sentence I would use (and in fact I've intentionally poisoned VCA when there were VCA players in the game before as scum). I don't know if that makes it a sentence someone else would use.

The read list thing is actually a big chunk of why I voted TL in the first place (it was very obviously fabricated) and with how clumsy the fabrication was I

can

actually believe that the weirdness was surface level scum connections. Normally something like that would be too WIFOM-y to trust, but I don't really think those readslists were carefully constructed to throw us off of trails if you get my drift.

[Bingle]

WHY IS THE SCUM SO INSISTENT ON "RESOLVING THE 3P ON DAY 3"

RIDDLE ME THIS

Because it was an easy way to present a (I want to lynch scum!) message for towncred, the 3p was making you useless, and Alch probably didn't matter to the scumteam?

[Bingle]

Also, to all, why is no one voting Thun?

I'm not ready to end discussion for the day, everyone I'm considering voting is consensussy and thus likely to go through quickly, and there's an active influx of content so I'm not worried about stalling out the game.

I have no issue giving Titus a couple of IRL days to let her problems calm down.

What do you think about my take on your play? Is there any of my reads you disagree with? Agree with strongly? Independent thought?


As far as the username crumbing his flavor thing, he said something about googling his name coming up with an address, which seemed like a throwaway line Froppy wouldn't have seen or known about, but really all that tells us is that Froppy is using a mod provided flavorclaim or is trueclaiming flavor, both of which are potentially possible from scum.

[Bingle]

Compare the two readslists that TL did.

Notice how he updates his reason on everyone but his townreads. He's finding reasons to shuffle around all his non-townreads, -except- for pisskop and username. He gives no new reasons for reads development there. Hes trying to remain neutral, and keeps stating theyre both content rich. The exact same reasoning in both lists.

I wonder why

Spoiler:

here's a quick lead rist, don't send me to the aether if it's wrong because I skimmed everyone's ISO for this:

TR

TL

NT

HN

NS

SL

SR

3P

[Town]

DrippingGoofball

- Has a claimed inno by Pooky, no reason to doubt said inno as of now.

Logicalicaltist

- With great pushing and town initiative this is the townie we need.

PookyTheMagicalBear

- The GIFposting reduces content but I have a feeling the informed claim is true so I am putting this at townlean level.

Almost50

- Still seems like his towny self, but I have a feeling A50 is more reserved here.

chkflip

- He's starting to look more promising as time goes on...

pisskop

- Memey but an ISO skim looked content-rich.

Iecerint

- A decently good ISO, 423 is probably a good post.

Lavender

- Not much content in the ISO but I feel a townish vibe.

Alchemist21

- Claimed townsiding 3P, I don't have a reason to doubt this.

username

- I'm not sure what impression I get from the ISO. At least it's content-rich.

Pine

- Unreadable due to lack of game-related info, defaulting to hard null (assuming V/LAishness here)

gobbledygook

- Lurker with contentless ISO, 126 is approaching info but actually isn't info

Doctor Drew

- Memey, totally not concerned with appearances. However his content looks a little scummy.

Elsa Jay

- I don't like the ISO. Sorry, but I just don't. It doesn't ping me town.

Vecna

- I really don't like the ISO, the readlist is bad in light of future info and 696 feels abrasive to me

[Scum]

VOTE: Vecna

A lead rist for the crazy mess that is D2:

TR

TL

NT

HN

NS

SL

SR

3P

[Town]

DrippingGoofball

- Has a claimed inno by Pooky, no reason to doubt said inno as of now. Still trying to push an Alchemist exile though.

Logicalicaltist

- Town leader, on a scummy trend D2 so take with a grain of salt.

PookyTheMagicalBear

- The GIFposting reduces content but I have a feeling the informed claim is true so I am putting this at townlean level. Hasn't posted yet in D2.

Almost50

- Still seems like his towny self, but I have a feeling A50 is more reserved here.

Galron

- Laid-back townie who contributes content to the game.

pisskop

- Memey but an ISO skim looked content-rich.

Vecna

- Starting to look very towny now.

Alchemist21

- Claimed townsiding 3P. Apparently logical got roleblocked? Alch might be fakeclaiming, but this will resolve itself D3.

Doctor Drew

- Seeing an upward trend here.

username

- I'm not sure what impression I get from the ISO. At least it's content-rich. Neutral trend here.

Bingle

- Feels like Bingle to me, yep. This isn't TRable though.

Elsa Jay

- Still as scummy as ever, might even be on a downward trend.

chkflip

- Votes with scummy intent, also D1 got stalled to heck and back despite his pushiness so I think that was planned as well.

[Scum]

You're not Thor.

Also, flavor claim por favor. I'm sure you can find a meme generator for a way to meme your surname.

[Bingle]

VOTE: Froppy

I think I'm happier with this over LC.

[Bingle]

UNVOTE:

[Bingle]

Yet LC was at the bottom of your readslist, and you were actively disagreeing with me over my solve?

I was actively disagreeing with you over the strength of the slip you'd found. Our PoE's have been roughly aligned since the beginning of the day.

You've talked me around on most of what I was townreading un for, and I admit it is entirely possible I was just wrong on the townread there. If you're asking for why I want Froppy right now, there's three factors:

The wagon on Froppy had better company.
If I'm wrong, we potentially get more information from LC if we leave him alive.
The LC wagon was both at E-2 without a filled playerlist and is suspicious AF.

I've been thinking quite a bit about A50, and I think it's completely reasonable that he would have given chk a biscuit N2. I doubt he would have ever targeted Alch/DGB/Pooky. He probably would not have targeted anyone who crumbed biscuit. I don't think he would have targeted me, both because as town I would have been a priority nightkill to him so he'd assume mainscum went after me and because as scum I would have been able to fool him. I blatantly don't agree with your reflector theory, but the more recent supposition of a scum rolecop matches the gamestate near perfectly, and explains how the signalling would have started handily. A scum rolecop also interacts favorably with Alch's claimed role, all of the flipped roles, and a mafia traitor who is unknown to both parties. A scum rolecop and a scum tracker doesn't really make sense, (they perform the same function) and LC is almost certainly a tracker unless he's scum with specifically Adorable.

In doing said pondering, I had a thought about LC, and I think he was targeted by the JK night 1. It makes sense, in a backwards sort of way. He was fairly town read, and I could see Lav thinking he might draw a scumkill. I could definitely see him being chosen to perform the scumkill if he was scum, since there was little suspicion about his slot at the time.

I unvoted to give Adorable a chance to weigh in, but I'm probably going to revote Froppy when that happens.

[Bingle]

Yeah, my theory is that the existence of a reflector is an additional level of complication that isn't supported by anything else in the thread and has negative synergy with the rest of the known setup and claims. A50's action N1 is unaccounted for. Vecna believes there is a scum reflector who was targeted by A50 on N1 and also was notified that they were targeted and also that the targeting was a poisoning. The moving parts for that to be the case are incredibly complex, and thus, via Occam's, unlikely.

LC claimed a Thun -> chk visit. If LC is scum without Thun, faking that makes 0 sense. If LC is scum with Thun, faking it is okay, but we probably win anyway. Else, Thun targeted chk.

Thun claimed a chk kill. (vigshot, but scumkill is potentially possible) Thun also said he would shoot chk going into N2. It was a bad vig kill, but not an unbelievable one.

A50 death is therefore best explained by either: reflector (again, a role we don't know exists and I don't believe exists) or scum NK on A50, which is not unreasonable.

Serious question: How much of D3 have you read, Galron?

[Bingle]

anyways, can we just get this over with?

im really hating the line bingles taking here, and his progression just feels like majorly white knighting or protecting scum, but its not enough for me to not want to lynch in froppy/newslot.

If you think I’m scum, either case me or explain why scum me commits to tunneling a partner with an OP role and who is townread the moment I land in the game, to the point where I get him killed, despite having my pick of other options.

Titus, that goes double for you knowing I just did basically the opposite when I replaced into a scumteam with a scumread you with a strong role and risked my neck repeatedly to keep you alive so we had a chance.

[Bingle]

To answer your serious question, I'll paraphrase Felix Frankfurter and say don't discount those late to the party.

That’s not at all an answer. You’re talking like you know what’s going on without demonstrating even a passing awareness of the things that have happened in the thread. I want to know whether you’ve actually read the game, not whether you’re here now.

[Bingle]

Which Thun wagon?

[Bingle]

LogicalCaltist, did you ever get notified that you were roleblocked N1? What response did you get from the GM the night you tracked Alchemist?

“There were no results from the tracking.”

I still think this is an awkward quote from the mod. So in that vein, it supports a scum!Logicalist. I can see a scum!Logic covering for a scum!Thun/Adorable. That "quote" just sticks out like a bee sting. And the Thun/Adorable transition was awkward. It certainly satisfies that Occam test.

It doesn't account for A50's death though, and that's where Vecna's theory makes sense. And I don't hear anyone claiming to have vigged him, unless chk did.

Case A: LC is actually a tracker. The phrasing is odd, but probably originates from the mod.

Case B: LC is not actually a tracker. LC is scum with specifically scum with Thun.

Case B is very low risk for town because both slots are independently highly scumread and still likely nightkills so their continued survival would only continue raising eyebrows.

chk provably didn't vig A50. His role only triggered if he was the elimination and the mod confirmed that. He was nightkilled, and was likely fakeclaiming his role to try to dodge a nk from scum. Given setup information, if Thun isn't a vig, it's almost 100% that one kill was the result of A50's N1 target and one kill was the result of the scum kill.

Further, if Thun/LC is the scumteam, we're missing a significant amount of town power.

2 Masons
Cop
JK

V

Uninformed Scum Traitor with a poisonous fruit vend
1 shot Novice Vig (a low estimate of TL's flipped role)
2x Goon

would be scumsided in a 16p, even without Alch's role (which was almost certainly balanced as an ascetic survivor). Conversely, scum only having 3 people would be pretty weak against the flipped town power, and one of LC/Thun would have to be town anyway.

[Bingle]

Also, DGB I did see your comment about me being suspect. I am cop cleared. Deal with Town Titus, even if you don't like her.

What cop, the third party?

Not worth crossing this bridge today, imo.

[Bingle]

Why is Logicalaltist "LC"

Not sure, but someone referred to him that way and I took it up after realizing it wasn't a reference to a defunct hydra of mine.

It's definitely shorter and unique to him in this PL though.

[Bingle]

TLich's role is stronger than a 1 shot novice vig for scum. It's a comparison to a role that is easier to balance to put said balance in perspective.

If he claims D1, he can functionally guarantee his ability to shoot on N2.

[Bingle]

(To clarify, that list assumes that both LC and Thun would be goons if they were scum together, which is a safe assumption because giving them additional power would make that proposed setup even more scumsided.)

[Bingle]

What the fuck even is this setup?


We have

JK
Ninjacop
Mason
Beloved Mason
Vengeful

Poisoner Traitor
Gated Vig
Tracker

A Claimed 3p.
A Claimed even night vig.
A Claimed Goo.

Unclaimed is just me and Vecna? I don't see how Adorable can NOT be town here, tbh.

[Bingle]

They thought we were masons, which was implied.

I mean, you functionally are. You're conftown via flavor to each other, just without a PT afaict.

[Bingle]

DGB is conftown, Titus is pretty much locktown, I should be pretty much locktown, Adorable should be town via balance, Froppy was the counterwagon to scum LC and I'd bet that's a town cw.

That leaves a pool of Vecna/Gal/EJ/Alch for last remaining groupscum.

We lose two players overnight (DGB almost certainly gets shot and then we have an extra night phase) while Adorable presumably has a vig kill. I can't see a way that a scum roleblocker works, so LC was probably trying to frame Alch and targeted elsewhere in the first place. My thoughts are pretty much we elim Galron or Vecna here and Adorable vigs the other.

[Bingle]

VOTE: Galron

[Bingle]

I don't think LC got eliminated yesterday without Titus. It also would not have been hard for Titus to let the Froppy/Adorable thing happen. Titus was also very helpful when we were running up TL. Therefore Titus is probably just town here. I know you both want to be right, but fighting each other isn't really a good use of your energy.

Vecna's tinfoil on the biscuit thing seems like a towny tinfoil to me, but his awkward defense of both TL and LC is kinda worrisome, as was his I was wrong on LC post in retrospect.

Galrond has done nothing particularly townie all game, added fuel to the Vecna theory fire, and has a terrible voting record.

Titus, do you agree that Froppy as the cw yesterday and Aborable as the claimed vig are probably just town?

[Bingle]

And presumably the claimed vig can be confirmed tonight. But I think for that to happen, we have to give her a target.

No.

We are not 'giving her a target'. Scum is obviously going to kill in the conftown pool. If anyone not in that pool dies I'm treating Adorable as conftown. Leashing her is dumb and a waste of time, but theoretically informs scum in advance. Scum doctor is also not a role that is outside of the realm of feasibility here.

I'd no blast into vigging Alch and then letting Alch vig if we flip a scum today, but I don't particularly think Alch is going to have a lot of good will for town at this point when we can no longer hold him responsible, so he probably loses unless we're in autowin.

Who is actually townreading Galron and why?

[Bingle]

We know that because the rest of the scum were lame.

1 Shot scum vig is not lame at all. TLich could have said, on D1, "Hey guys, if I successfully call the lynch tomorrow over the night phase I get a power role." Especially in light of the 3p claim, it's almost guaranteed that he would have gotten to shoot once. Even just his role is a considerable amount of power for scum. There's a lot of swing, sure. But swing doesn't mean a lack of power. A50's role also seems really strong especially considering you/Pooky being likely to be outed fairly early.

I empathize with Goof here, but the focus on Alch seems unimportant to me. If we flip another scum while we still have a way to target he gets his win. If not he dies before endgame. He's like the least important slot to worry about.

Titus is town. Goof is town. Adorable is town (or town enough for government work). I'm frankly baffled that anyone thinks I could be S/S with Lich here. Froppy was the LC counterwagon.

Like, at a certain point there's enough people who are just town to ignore "He's too wolfy to be wolfy" as a defence.

[Bingle]

I disagree with his assertion that he has to be near lock-town here. He found his vote onto TL very easily d2. This couldve also happened because I called out the swap in reads from TL/LC to chkflip and he just wanted to hedge the scumteam bets (either get the chk lynch and a vig, or have by far their strongest player positioned really well for the rest of the game). Maybe TL got a poisoned cookie and that is why he was an easy bus target (and why A50 got scared after to use it again).

snip

-He is not concerned with the possibility of EJ having fooled us at all. He does not bring up the awkward late hammer on LC. He is not concerned with the role shenanigans, the very odd overlap between EJ/chk's role and the weird way EJ navigated these. A scum Bingle would know this slot is town and prefer to have their vote on his side for endgame purposes.

-He seems to just be interested in the current day's lynch, and finding the right arguments that fit to push that lynch through. You can bet your ass that a scum bingle is going to bring up the above argument tomorrow though, and use them to push through EJ then. Why does he not mention this today? Because he needs EJ's vote for a smooth lynch that goes according to plan today.

Snipped a considerable portion of the above post for readability purposes

First of all, my literal 4th post in the thread was that I wanted a TL Flashwagon during the EoD for D1. I didn't vote there because it wasn't really viable, but saying my vote on D2 was anything less than a clear and concerted effort to get what would have to be the strongest member of the scumteam eliminated is pretty laughable. And I didn't need to call attention to TL, because when I came into the thread, he was fairly townread as far as I can remember. (posts 1-3, btw, were a joke directed at you, a claim that was literally a picture of a Billy Goat on a Hill, and a request for catchup information from the people in the thread who I thought I could get an early handle on).

Second, my trajectory here has not been at all unclear. Yes. EJ is in my PoE, and I am suspicious of him. I also think he is townier than Galrond. If Galrond flips town, I will definitely be interested in wagoning EJ in the absense of additional information. I'm not sure why any of that is surprising, when my approach to the day has definitely been "Who are the people who I can comfortably say are town?" In point of fact, my preferred order for elims is Galron -> EJ -> Alch -> You atm, and the things I have been arguing have been why Titus/Froppy/Adorable should be excluded, not why any individual of those should be included. I've even talked about how I think your tin foil theories make you more likely to be town.

Third, the argument for Galron isn't that Galron agreed with your theory, it's that Galron hasn't done anything towny. I can come up with a reason to townread literally everyone in the thread except him. His activity comes in when he's being talked about and when he's at risk. His stances are easy and milquetoast. His votes are garbage-y (yeah, I'm aware you wanted me to back this up, Galron, but I'll get to that in a minute). But the big thing really is that there's no reason to think he's town.

[Bingle]

snip

he never aknowledged it or how bloody obv-town it oughta make me.

If I failed to acknowledge specific calls to interact, I apologize but they probably got lost in the shuffle.

I have, though, on several occasions talked about how I think you're probably just town who is wrong on me, why I don't think it's unreasonable that you're tunneled on me, and that

literally my only reservation wrt your play has been that you defended TL with a pretty weak argument against me when I tried to get him lynched, which I think is the objectively correct play when he had such a powerful scum role.

We know that because the rest of the scum were lame.

The rest of the scum was not lame. I keep referring to TL's role as a 1 shot vig because it is objectively stronger than that. He wasn't one shot. He could make his guess every night. My point in asking those questions is that had he come out and said "Hey guys, if we eliminate the person I guess then I turn into a vig, let's eliminate Alch D2" during D1 then he absolutely would have gotten the chance to double kill. His role was 100% balanced as at least one extra kill for scum. Your role is balanced as at least one extra kill for scum. A50's role is balanced as a risky extra kill for scum every night. That's a boatload of scum power and a boatload of swing.

[Bingle]

When Logicaltits said he targeted Scumchemist21 and the action failed, Scumchemist21, if he weren't scum himself, would have been jumping up and down that he probably found scum.

This isn't what I'm directly responding to in it's entirety, but it is representative.

Alch probably isn't groupscum here.

Alch was defended by LC and TL

, that is true. But that was pro scum regardless of whether Alch was scum or not. First of all, it was a stance they could take and argue about that wasn't directly contributing to hunting for their team member, giving them a chance to blend in to the crowd. Additionally, for as long as Alch remains alive, he's a distraction to the town. He's a point of division that we have to deal with eventually. But he's also a point of division that it doesn't hurt them to leave around. So what if he gets a cop shot off, town has no incentive to listen to him. So what if he tracks scum to the kill? Again, he's completely untrustworthy. Even if he gets his hands on a NK, he's most likely to just shoot DGB for being so tunneled on him (which, coincidentally, is probably why DGB herself has never been killed despite being a confirmed town slot for like 4 days now).

LC claimed an action that he probably didn't take against Alch

. This is true. If Alch/LC is S/S, LC has no reason to track him, ever. If Alch is 3p as claimed, LC gets no information from targeting him. So instead, we examine why LC would lie:

Either, A) LC wanted to set up a 1v1 between him and Alch, which would be a low risk/low reward gambit (Towncred from the bus when he was already fairly universally townread and the eliminations were unlikely to fall on the less vulnerable scummate) OR B) They wanted a big fight to throw up a smokescreen in the thread. Their approach to Alch definitely suggests the latter to me, because the massive defense of Alch from TLich doesn't suggest to me that scum wanted Alch to flip for cred. The gambit for cred explanation doesn't really make sense with the game state of two scum pushing against the Alch lynch, because while the scum with the better thread position would get towncred, it would

virtually seal the fate of the scum with the stronger role

.


I'm not saying Alch is conftown, or even that we should go out of our way to make him win (he almost certainly doesn't). What I am saying is that we should stay the course and ignore his slot in light of others who are more likely scum. If we still have a targeting role after we flip another scum and the game isn't over, we can determine whether offering him the joint win is viable. If we can, that'd be awesome. If we can't, oh well. But dealing with Alch today is not a priority.

[Bingle]

Spoiler: Representative Galron Votes

VOTE: Adorable

VOTE: Froppy

E-1

UNVOTE:

VOTE: TLich

UNVOTE:

VOTE: TLich

I'm back here.

VOTE: Elsa

Also isn’t Thun 1 Vote away from hammer.
If so I’d like to say the following:
Anyone who Quick hammers Thun is scum claiming.

VOTE: thun

Note the pattern: Easy naked votes with little to no reasoning cast when the thread consensus is clear. Slinky unvotes at possibly the most scum beneficial times (he's got a particularly waffly unvote in light of TL's claim, and then a naked hammer when it became clear that TL was dying anyway). He came into the thread voting heavily suspected Adorable today with no reasoning, despite the way the EoD played out and the way Adorable can potentially selfconfirm. If you need further explanation of why these votes are bad, feel free to let me know, but I think they speak for themselves in the absence of having said anything in the first place.

[Bingle]

Dammit, nested spoiler tags.

@mod: if you get a chance and are willing, could you delete the spoiler tags in the quote of post 2832? That should fix the formatting.

Last one, I swear.

I should damn well be obvtown here, Vecna, and you actually brought up the best reasoning for it. I as scum KNOW my best route to victory, and I follow that route. That's not the case with what happened in the thread here. If I were scum, pooky would never have died last night. First of all, both pooky and DGB were firmly on my side yesterday. Second, I knew, just as well as you, that Adorable would be untouchable today and that me letting Adorable be eliminated would be a scumclaim. The eliminatable pool contained- from a theoretical scum me perspective- Galron, Alch, EJ, you, Froppy, and pooky, roughly in that order of difficulty to push the wagon (and the first 4 would not have been hard at all, as I could have just sat back and let someone else do the work for me), so all of those would be untouchable. pooky would be the designated winning elimination, because his continued survival would make it easier and easier to question why he'd still be alive. Adorable would have been the obvious nightkill, you were the only unclaimed slot, and Titus was the locktown most likely to turn against me, so given the choice I would have been shooting in the three of them. Probably Adorable to prevent the vig shot the next night (it only would have been outside of the Adorable slot if I thought there was a significant chance of a town protective role existing AND targeting Adorable, which I will not comment on whether I think is true or not for obvious reasons).

tl;dr- Yes, if scum I am in a great position to roll over the town in this game. Yes, if scum I'm a huge danger. If I actually had been scum, I would have easily been able to be in a MUCH better position to roll over this game AND I would definitely have been aware of how to do it. I 100% would have gone down the route that would functionally guarantee me a ROFLstomp over the route that would be less reliable.

[Bingle]

Pooky would definitely be a contender for being able to get him killed from a scum me perspective. I was his second most outspoken defender, and DGB would need to die at some point before F3 anyway. Pooky flip cleared DGB, but DGB flip wouldn't necessarily clear Pooky. Note: I attempted to remedy this yesterday, but pooky didn't cooperate and I didn't push the matter. Further, if they actually were masons as I contended yesterday, I would have had more than enough time to change course as needed because the PoE pool wasn't tight enough to need every elimination for a potential scum player.

My best guess for why Pooky was killed was because I've been pushing the thought that pooky and DGB were actually masons for a while now and scum bought into it. I'm not sure who would be most inclined to fall for that, hence why I haven't been pushing anyone on that point. I think Vecna would be less likely than average to fall for that bait, but the salient point for that post is that I would have no reason to go for the route that scum me would have to have taken to get to this point.

[Bingle]

What about Galron feels town?

[Bingle]

I feel Galron is town for the way he stood up to me.

Lynx? I just skimmed his ISO and I didn't see much interaction between the two of you at all, and I frankly can't remember Galron standing up to anyone on anything. The closest would be something like 3522.

[Bingle]

You know what they say about assumptions.

They're necessary for mathematical proofs.

[Bingle]

Do you want to waste your time on that?

Pass. If someone who is not you asks, sure, but attempting to convince you that you're scum is a waste of time. Either you're scum, and you know I'm right, or you're town and you know I'm wrong. (Also, your post= tags are borked and go to the OP, JSYK.)

I will say for the benefit of the thread that the context of the votes IS something I took into account. For example, the TLich unvote/revote was:

TLich claims, Gal unvotes, DGB laughs at the claim, Pooky laughs at the claim, chk laughs at the claim, Gal hammers. That's pretty much the point. He hammered as soon as he saw the town response was "laugh at claim" and knew that TLich was a sinking ship.

Similarly the Froppy unvote.

Spoiler:

VOTE: Froppy

E-1

That's the opposite of letting someone catch up.

I read up to page 112 so far. On page 1 it says TL is red and I'm at the part where TL is being wagoned. I'm town reading Bingle since he is the one who made a case on TL and has been after this slot wanting it to get lynched. The Pooky and DGB confirming each other confused me and I didn't understand that part and it looks like Alchemist didn't get confirmed.

It's been so tempting to lolhammer

I think that it is almost poe so if this is the route people want to take then I think we should quit stalling.

UNVOTE:

UNVOTE:

What, in this sequence, caused you to learn something, Gal? Why did you put the fresh replacement at E-1 in the first place if you were hoping for a catchup?

[Bingle]

that means if we mislynch the game could be over after today

This is the type of little thing that makes me think Vecna is town, btw.

We have 9 alive. In order for a reasonable "We die tonight" scenario, there have to be at least 5 town deaths. If there can still be 5 town deaths after flipping 2 scum killing roles, this was never really a game. Scum Vecna is 100% aware of that, but the statement looks natural to me.


I'm also not opposed to the EJ wagon. It's probably slightly better mechanically

because

Adorable can't shoot there. My gut does say that Gal is the scum and EJ is town though, FWIW.

[Bingle]

Why not? Do you think Galron's defense is going to convince anyone. More importantly, do you think Galron thinks his defense is going to convince anyone?

[Bingle]

You even reading what was being talked about?

Mislynch = 1
Townvig shooting town pgo = 2
scum killing DGB = 1
Scum getting extra nightkill due to DGB death = 1

No scum ability except the NK involved.

And... there’s then 4 alive. I agree with you that adorable shouldn’t kill EJ, but I don’t think it’s likely that doing so would outright lose us the game.

[Bingle]

In fact, half the abilities that would let you win and leave the game are killing abilities

I think he's supposed to mitigate the power scum had with multiple ways to kill. I also don't think the mods really considered him claiming D1 and he was supposed to be a hidden landmine for scum to operate around.

Baker games being high swing is par for the course though.

[Bingle]

NGL, I'd throw my support behind anything I think has a chance to flip scum if a wagon showed up. I feel like we've been talking in circles for days and we're to mired in that tedium to really have incredible insights right now. At least a flip would give us something new to go off of, even if it isn't scum.

[Bingle]

Not confirmed confirmed, given that there's an alternate explanation to the multiple kills. Pretty close though. If there's 2 kills tonight, given the nature of the flips, you'll be hardconfirmed town.

[Bingle]

For what it's worth, Arby's does have chicken tenders. Which are kind of like nuggets.

This is also the only thing in the space between my last post and now I think is worth responding to.

[Bingle]

For what it's worth, Arby's does have chicken tenders. Which are kind of like nuggets.

This is also the only thing in the space between my last post and now I think is worth responding to.

But I can't put an entire chicken tender in my mouth at one time. It's like the difference between a pizza and pizza rolls.

And it's an important topic so thanks for responding.

I suggest investing time and energy in learning to open your mouth wider. Physical limitations are an illusion.

Vote Count 4.04

Galron (1): Bingle
Elsa Jay (1): DrippingGoofball
Vecna (1): Titus
Bingle (1): Vecna
Not Voting (5): Alchemist21, Froppy, Elsa Jay, Adorable, Galron

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to blast someone!
Day Four ends on Thursday, August 27th at 2:00pm EST in (expired on 2020-08-27 14:00:00)

No votes have been cast since this one, Titus.

[Bingle]

Do we have any proof DGB is actually a princess?

Pooky + no cc.

[Bingle]

Is that proof a princess is in the game though?

Either DGB is a BP, or DGB is scum who was informed that there was a town role that was informed that there was a BP when there actually wasn't and also had a traitor vig and a tracker and a gated vig on their scumteam in a 16p game with a third party, meaning scum had 3 different game shortening mechanics.

The latter is just a "Never play a Baker Game again and ignore that this game ever happened".

[Bingle]

Alchemist, please confess that your clearing Titus was a lie.

It was not a lie.

FWIW, if Alch was lying about the result as 3p, he could fairly easily retract into a guilty and win via vig after we blast Titus scum because we would have enough bodies to not worry about a loss out of no where. If alch is lying as scum, Titus would be town due to alch being last scum. If alch is lying about having been targeted by cop, why? Faking that he’s closer to his wincon than he actually is makes it more likely for him to be blasted than just trueclaiming, because he wouldn’t have known how many town targeting roles could exist on N2.

Further, as we’ve discussed, it makes sense for skeptic Iec to target Alch, because Iec was a claimed cop with a flipped protective. He wasn’t living through the night. His result would be useless to us if he could never report it, but targeting Alch potentially gives scum a reason to nk alch (a plus) or town a useful cop result (a plus).

Also, something something Titus was the momentum shift that saw LC over Froppy.

Teal deer: The inno result on Titus is solid.

[Bingle]

im willing to vote bingle, froppy, alch or EJ

Froppy was the LC counterwagon, and that doesn't look like dueling scum wagons to me. Why are you suddenly hardtownreading Galron?

[Bingle]

I ran across a couple of posts where Bingle said no to Logicalisticlist unless it was specifically him and Thun/Adorable.

Pics? Cause iirc the closest I got to this was saying that Thundorable def shot chk unless specifically LC/Thundorable team (which isn't an AI proof) and that I preferred LC/Thun if we aimed for information blasting early yesterday (in game day).

[Bingle]

Bingle - I would play this different as scum.

I've towncased you, DGB, Froppy and Vecna. I've also been actively trying to get Galron blasted for what feels like months at this point.

My preference goes Galron > EJ > Alch > People I could be wrong about but probably am not > Adorable > You > DGB.

Galron is tied with every other option at 1 vote. Just because I can't get any traction in this shit show doesn't mean I haven't tried.

Actually, fuckit.

VOTE: EJ

Maybe Adorable will listen to me and vig Galron.

[Bingle]

This is one of the posts I remember. I don't know if that was conditional or not. It doesn't read that way.

The statement I made already proved to be true, though?

Like, the statement was LC is {scum with adorable} or {a tracker}.

LC was provably a tracker. If LC had flipped nottracker scum, I would 1000% be going after adorable, because the risk LC would have had to take to guess adorableslot shot chk in order to claim it before hand would have been insane, but the either or statement is already fulfilled and thus useless.

It's like if I say I have mod information that either DGB is the last scum or TL was a bookie. The statement is true because TL was a bookie. It has absolutely no bearing on whether DGB is or is not scum. (She isn't, Titus.) Adorable is not scum because game balance and provable role. The dichotomy that LC either tracked that slot or was scum with that slot is useless, because LC tracked that slot is completely possible.

[Bingle]

None of that matters in the slightest though. LC was actually a tracker, and talking about hypotheticals where he wasn't is a waste of time.

If you want to know why I think LC tracked townThun, which is slightly less of a waste of time but still pretty time waste-y, that'd be because chk was obvtown in light of the TLich flip. Thun should never have shot there, and that he claimed he did proves to me that he wasn't paying attention to the thread at all. It doesn't change anything about the lack of town power if Adorable is scum or the fact that 2 kills confirms Adorable is town, which are the actually reasons to never eliminate there today.

[Bingle]

Bingle, tell me why you think Galron is more scum than Elsa Jay.

Elsa Jay's rosary of fake claims were all self-serving and disingenuous and I didn't like them one bit.

EJ fakeclaiming is a sign he has a pulse, not AI for him. It’s annoying, but he plays every game like a survivor. There are a couple things he’s done that make me think he’s town (particularly the bizarre way he refused to vote Froppy) but there’s nothing to really make him solid town.

I don't get that "self-confirming" stuff.

There is not another vig on the scumteam. Therefore, two kills tonight would mean adorable is a town vig. Scum can’t afford to let Townadorable hang around, because she kills a suspect every other night and the PoE pool is already rather tight. It’s always better to make scum kill a slot than to myslynch it. Even if scum has a Roleblocker or something like it to neutralize Adorable, they would have to let the potential power in me and Vecna (who remain unclaimed) have free reign. If we contain even a shitty pseudo investigative like motion detector we have a chance to royally fuck the scumteam here. Not to mention if we have something with a little more oomph, like, say, a doctor to keep you alive.

TL;DR Adorable, if town, will either be dead or conftown soon, so eliminating her is a waste of assets.

I didn't ask, but since you put it out there, I don't follow. Connecting the dots, Logical tracked Thun because Thun said he was going to shoot chkflip? How does chk being obvtown play into that?

LC likely tracked Thun for two reasons. One, the towncred of actually proving himself a tracker which he could have done if Thun had killed a better target. Two, there were very few unclaimed slots. There was no reason to track a VT claim. There was no reason to track DGB/Pooky. There was no reason to track the vengeclaim. There was reason not to track EJ/Alch.

Of course this all falls apart if they were both scum (LC could claim thun shot whoever he wanted) but then we still have a missing non town role responsible for killing A50, and I’ve already explained why adorable is completely off the table for today once in this post.

[Bingle]

It also makes me conftown and I hate being conftown.

FWIW it doesn't make you any more conftown than you already are, but you're already pretty conftown. Like 99%.

Alch is either 3p or scum. If Alch is scum you're town because no way are there two scum left. If Alch is 3p there's an argument to be made that he lied about his result, but I already made a big post about why that probably didn't happen (tl;dr it requires Alch to have been playing against his own claimed best interests).

I'm still interested in the reasons behind the Galron townreads, and haven't heard anything particularly compelling.

[Bingle]

Vecna/Galron looks very S/S interactions wise and I don't know how to feel about that, tbh. They can't both be scum, but at the same time ScumVecna has no reason to defend TownGalron like that.

On the other hand, the repeated emphasis on EJ/Galron that's turned into first a push on chkflip and now a push on Alch is just bizarre. Vecna, which posts turned you around wrt Gal?

[Bingle]

Regardless, if I was scum, id have plenty of reason to save Galron here now, no?

Ah, I was unclear. The interactions that looked S/S were early days, when you wanted EJ or Galron and then pushed chk for pushing Galron while ignoring EJ. 2705 - 2738 or thereabouts. (Note: Vecna consistently wanted to flip EJ first.)

That looks to me like a you/Galron team with you trying to shift the attention away from Galron, but also it can't be a you/Galron team. Hence confusion.

I'm aware that at this point any arguments for another player being town are likely legitimate arguments because only one scum remains.

[Bingle]

Why are we so confident only one scum remains when the only wagon to get three votes is set up to ensure both Alch and Adorable get lynched rather than scum?

If there were 5 scum and two of them could kill in a 16 person then this was never a game to begin with.

[Bingle]

Vigging EJ is like... the worst option. Even worse than giving Alch a vig kill he'll probably just use on you. If EJ is town it sacrifices a full mislynch for no reason.

[Bingle]

Nah, I'm totally saying that as "Alchemist the 3p with a vig shot would kill DGB".

Why would he not? DGB has consistently been his biggest detractor while scum spent two days hard defending him, and regardless of who he chooses there's absolutely no way for us to punish him for it afterwards. It's not like the leap is rocket surgery.

[Bingle]

Sorry. I've been not paying attention to this game on account of y'know, being incredibly bored. I don't have anything to add.

Unless Adorable is the scum we're probably in autolose, so don't expect a lot of solving from me.

[Bingle]

I guess, rather, unless Adorable or Alch is the last scum.

[Bingle]

? Alch has always been one of the last three eliminations. He was never not. Theoretically we're in a better position than we would have been if we'd lynched Alch yesterday and EJ today, because Alch could be lying about having soaked up the vig and about to exit the game. I don't believe that to be the case, but not eliminating Alch until last was always right, and remains right.

I wanted to blast Galrond. I've wanted to blast Galrond for literal weeks. If I lose to scum you oh well, you played me. If I lose to scum Galrond, well, fuck me sideways, because his play this game was shit and he should never have survived this long.

[Bingle]

The problem is that if adorable is town we still have no idea what the fuck happened with A50.

[Bingle]

Not really, no. I still think Froppy is town based on the way the wagons went down the day we got TL.

If Froppy is the scum, I'll take the blame for protecting her.

[Bingle]

VOTE: adorable

[Bingle]

UNVOTE:

I guess I shouldn't put us in quickhammer range while Galron could theoretically be doing something.

[Bingle]

The fact that he's not just voting adorable here makes me think maybe I was wrong there, though. Maybe there yet remains hope?

[Bingle]

I'm just assuming scum is multitasking. DEB is a RL friend of FL, who comes from the era of scum multitasking being the norm (like me) and thus I'd assume that FL, also the reviewer to the game, passed that preference along, especially given the nature and style of the game. Due diligence says I should PM DB and then mod meta his completed games in case he answers inconclusively, but frankly the field where I grow my fucks lies empty and barren.

I don't particularly think that scum RB is likely here. I also don't particularly think that Scum BP makes sense when most of the killing roles are themselves scum. You being cautious about this elimination is probably a good sign, because even your most vocal detractor is resigned to letting you endgame and you're still trying to solve the game.

I think it's weird, coming from the slot that wanted Adorable yesterday, but weird in a town way and not a scum way.

[Bingle]

20% of my pandemic life

The concept that this is a meaningful measurement of time depresses me.

[Bingle]

VOTE: Adorable

@Scum: please kill me, so I don't have to be involved in tomorrow. It shouldn't matter in the slightest. kthxbye.