Musician Mafia: Guitarists GAME OVER

[BrightEyedFish]

Bambi, baby, you a fish. you a fishy fish that fishes fishily. My cheerios are unpissed, but my scumdar pingeth.

I am The Fish.

I wish Bambi was a fish then we could be friends.

[BrightEyedFish]

VOTE: bambijay heeeeere fishyfishyfishy

Another false fish comment.

[BrightEyedFish]

VOTE: TiphaineDeath

[BrightEyedFish]

There can be more than one fish, you are a literal fish, they are a metaphorical fish. Accept the multitude of fish-ness that is the universe and be at peace.

I would categorize Bambi as more of a metaphorical fox.

Also, do you have a rocky past with Bambi?

[BrightEyedFish]

7 scum in a 21 playing game? We on extra hard mode considering there's not 2 mafia.

UNVOTE:
Can you all ignore the fact that I though that 5+2 is 5 and carry on? Please.

Where is the math?

[BrightEyedFish]

I'm telling you guys. You don't want to lynch NPOM

Listen to the frog. This is important.

[BrightEyedFish]

I listened to the frog, I understood what he said, I merely contend it is a stupid assumption to make from the info given.

I took it as the frog knows something we don't. I am uninformed for sure.

[BrightEyedFish]

If you satisfy your wincon, do you leave the game?

nah we all win together as soon as I lock in my band, if they are all PROTOWN, the game is OVA. If I'm wrong though I just die a horrible death.




anyway I'm done recruiting thanks for helping me nail down the last LOCKTOWNs.

SUPER METAL ROCK GOD BAND ASSEMBLEEEE!

HEAL: DrippingGoofball
HEAL: Lavender
HEAL: BrightEyedFish
HEAL: Doctor Drew
HEAL: Princess Leia

I confirm the band invitation.

[BrightEyedFish]

I've been waiting all my life for someone like you

Should we name the band "The Masons"?

[BrightEyedFish]

gamma town slipping crazy hard rn

respect

I agree.
Add her as an honorary member pooky.

Am I in your town block as well?

[BrightEyedFish]

Pfahahahah, you want to accuse ME of not making content? Look around at the entire rest of the fucking game and realize exactly how hypocritically moronic that particular statement is. I'm one of the few people who is actually trying to do anything useful instead of spouting pure garbage into the air. Like, the only reason I can't call scum right now is because there are two many of you acting stupid for it to actually be a tell.

Aren't scum usually the first to say how much they add to the game?

[BrightEyedFish]

I read that somewhere. Or at least something of the like.

[BrightEyedFish]

From my experience, people who get emotional are usually town.

From my experience people who say emotional people are town are scum.

#somecoolhasttagthatburns

[BrightEyedFish]

Titus calling me important looks like pocketing to me. It's also weird that she votes me at the same time of saying that.

VOTE: Titus

What we have here is your basic self-deprecating setup followed by the sideways glance as the punchline hits used by many successful comics through the years, your Kaufmans, your Dangerfields, your Newharts. Classic laugh grabber.

Don't forget your Mitch Hedbergs.

"My belt holds my pants up, but the belt loops hold my belt up. I don't really know what's happening down there. Who is the real hero?"

[BrightEyedFish]

I think my own first Real-ish read of this game points to Town!A50.

[BrightEyedFish]

My A50 read is based on his series of posts starting at 489

[BrightEyedFish]

Wow people sure have fun making up reasons they think I'm scum.

People love to do irrational things. It's in our nature.

[BrightEyedFish]

I don't SR you though. I believe in rudeboy

[BrightEyedFish]

In fact I've already said I don't care.

fuck the haters. If you are town then giving up is just like a slap in the face to the rest of us.

[BrightEyedFish]

Gamma and BEF. I can never get a good read on A50...what is it that makes you think he is probTown?

I've a feeling that Scum!A50 is meaner.

[BrightEyedFish]

Ok, like, Flake has def not been super-towny this game, but maaaan am I not loving how quickly all these wagons keep forming.

This post makes you def not super-towny regardless of Flake's flip.

[BrightEyedFish]

UNVOTE:

[BrightEyedFish]

I've need to get focused.

All I remember is that I think A50 is town and NPOM is probably town. rudeboy too.

Everyone else is scum for now.

[BrightEyedFish]

Bef, how is Npom town? I do not understand this one.

Because of rudeboy's conftown statement.

[BrightEyedFish]

jesus fucking christ this game does my head in.

Ask yourself, who benefits from this gamestate? Probably people who keep leading people astray to matters we shouldn't even discuss like...

Spoiler:

I appreciate the list of IKS posts from pisskop in 605. I haven't been completely sold on him and it looks like I'm not the only one.

Who's Iecerint?

An old school MS player on our player list. He's been real quiet so far, but I'd like to know what he's thinking.

IKS' push for a modkill is weird. I mean, typically, you don't talk about ongoing games at all, but I thought I remembered the example mentioned. In any case, a push for that (and not letting it alone for the mod to deal with) is scummy.

Cause the reasoning is weak.

Just like your play. Ba dum dish.

I don't have confident SR to pursue.

Other than NPOM, I'm having the same issue.

I do not understand all the TiphaineDeath votes on page 16.

Welcome to the club.

And appreciate all of your catch up that I've read thus far. I'm just a little "huh?" about how you have a fully laid out reads list already.

[BrightEyedFish]

VOTE: starbuck

Talking about mod communications, asking mod for prods, the ongoing game thing talk take up a relatively good amount of Starbuck's content.

Feels right, feels good.

(This A50's to quote this part of my message and leave a song that it reminded him of)

[BrightEyedFish]

EBWOP

(This is A50's cue to quote this part of my message and leave a song that it reminded him of)

[BrightEyedFish]

VOTE: starbuck

Talking about mod communications, asking mod for prods, the ongoing game thing talk take up a relatively good amount of Starbuck's content.

Feels right, feels good.

(This A50's to quote this part of my message and leave a song that it reminded him of)

This is laughable. Besides NPOM getting all bent out of shape when I contribute, I can't comment on what's going on when I come back to the thread. I'm "leading people astray" apparently. Explain why does this push back exists when I contribute. Do you actually have any questions for me? Or are you just going to look like a fool and assume my motivations?

I joined this game because (1) The Baker, (2) I saw some old-school MS folks that I wanted to play with (Papa Zito, Iec, DGB), (3) some new school (to me) folks who I like (Titus, Pooky), and (4) some folks who I hadn't had the pleasure of playing with yet. I was disappointed, to say the least, when there was such a significant absence of PZ and Iec over the first few days. Hence, asking for a prod and mentioning that I'd like some Iec insight.

I mentioned one part of my post where I didn't like IKS' reaction to what could have been a mod kill. It didn't come off as a joke to me. Hence, I wanted to mention it as I was catching up.

My vote would be on NPOM but I'm holding back because I believe in rudeboy. IKS is up there for me in the scum bracket, but I believe there's already some pressure there. TD is town and are a few others. So I'm working through trying to get some better reads. Other than that, though, this is some weak AF shit and you should work on actually interacting with me rather than making assumptions.

I'm satisfied with you being town even though I hate the tone.
But I feel your use of "laughable" and "weak AF shit" are mean.

[BrightEyedFish]

UNVOTE:

[BrightEyedFish]

But I feel your use of "laughable" and "weak AF shit" are mean.

This phrase is laughable and weak AF it borders on being mean.

Hey, this is supposed to be play the victim AtE stuff.

[BrightEyedFish]

My updated town block:

Rudeboy
A50
Npom
gamma
starbuck

No SRs to report right now. But the closest thing I have to one and since there has been some more pushing on this slot recently

VOTE: TP

[BrightEyedFish]

VOTE: Almost50 Everyone's saying you're town.

I think if A50 does flip scum this game, we found a buddy of his.

[BrightEyedFish]

Flip him and see

But I don't want to flip him now

[BrightEyedFish]

@Mod V/LA for about 24 more hours. Hopefully I'll be back sooner.

[BrightEyedFish]

VOTE: Galron

Bambi you seem so distant this game. Where's the sassy little 3p who townsided? Wheres the town side?

Saving my energy for day 2 where if my guess is right we lose 2 people tonight. Then I'll have more to say.

Until then I'll be background noise.

What if 3 go instead of 2? Would that change your hypothesis?

[BrightEyedFish]

Siteflake's reaction to the snap wagon on him seemed odd in that he seemed to not care and/or knew it would just pass over, I feel town would get more defensive rather than play it cool.

VOTE: Dr. Drew

Is this the sole reason? Or is there more to the DD read?

[BrightEyedFish]

i think id do a drew

Mountain Drew?

[BrightEyedFish]

i think id do a drew

Mountain Drew?

VOTE: drew

That wasn't the point behind my post.

[BrightEyedFish]

Can someone please scum claim at this point? (Not you, Bambi. Everyone knows you'd claim anything anytime just for the giggles, so that'd be worthless)

I hard claim jailor goon.

VOTE: Siteflaking

It is a hard claim.

[BrightEyedFish]

I'm not wasting this fucking phase because one shithead doesn't wanna put their big boy pants on and actually play the game with some sense of self and dignity.

Which phase do you want to waste then, because there we have have to use a phase on this slot.

[BrightEyedFish]

D2: "wHeLp ThEy DiD iT tO tHeMsElVeS. lOl"

I'm not wasting this fucking phase because one shithead doesn't wanna put their big boy pants on and actually play the game with some sense of self and dignity.

Get

THE FUCK

off the Siteflake wagon.

[BrightEyedFish]

Wagon speed was too swift to be good though, no?

The speed of the derailing attempt is more telling IMO.

[BrightEyedFish]

IKS's reaction to the "speed" wagon was from someone who doesn't want to come across as scared. This implies to me that hIKS is in this game with a partner(s). And since it was dismissing it probably wasn't a town partner.

TL,DR

No coming back from this without a hard inno for IKS. You don't want to waste a phase, I don't want to waste a night action on that slot.

[BrightEyedFish]

Yeah well that's just, like, your opinion man.

unless you can tell me she isn't, I feel she was noobscum.

There's a post in there where she talks about changing the settings to see posts in hours:minutes:seconds. That's not something a non-alt typically knows. She also spoke about a few people alluding to having meta.

As much as I loathe secret alts, it didn't appear she was anything but that. A secret character alt at that. The worst of the form.

Tell me why Siteflake isn't scummy and explain why you aren't protecting them.

Memeing/trolling in and of itself isn't scummy. I've seen most of you do it. As town. It's an easy mis-shred. I'm stopping us from wasting a phase on an easy mis-elim. Explain how that's scummy. Also, cite somewhere where I give a fuck about my partners as scum so much to stick my Goddamn neck out for them when nobody had a read on me. That's stupid. Don't be stupid.

I get where your defense can come from a town mindset. I am not latching you to IKS regardless of IKS's alignment.

I don't care what exp level IKS has and I don't like that excuse because it is 0% AI.

I am in no means a top player so I don't want to tell anyone how they should play. I accept their play and I will react to it based on my own thoughts. IKS needs to be held accountable and that to me means a wagon to at least S-2 or S-1 before we can aptly decide if we should shred there.

[BrightEyedFish]

screw it... Let's rip the band aid and hope its scum.

Dayvig: I Keep Siteflaking

[BrightEyedFish]

he should've made a case that was convincing enough to convince me not to daydoc

Why would you waste it on IKS? I only had the 1-shot.

[BrightEyedFish]

BEF- Was your intention to simply do something to do something to push the game forward, by hook or crook? Or, why else would you use your dayvig on someone with a pretty large and constant wagon?

Well, I would like to use it on someone I think is scummy. Also, I would think it would be "more safe" to use it in early game and is IKS is scum to catch the other scum off guard.

[BrightEyedFish]

Drew, Fish, Bambi, A50: I feel like we're feeling each other but your vote is better served on piss rather than IKS.

ngl, this post does make me want to oblige. I feel like IKS should have been shredded multiple times already.

[BrightEyedFish]

Drew, Fish, Bambi, A50: I feel like we're feeling each other but your vote is better served on piss rather than IKS.

ngl, this post does make me want to oblige. I feel like IKS should have been shredded multiple times already.

Doesn't that want to make you keep your vote on him?

I am keeping my vote on IKS.

[BrightEyedFish]

L-1.

5 hours until deadline.

Time to shred.

[BrightEyedFish]

I'm pretty sure there was some late-wagon bussing on IKS. Lets start there.

Looker, pisskop, davesaz, NoPowerOverMe, Gamma Emerald, WaltertheDunce10, Starbuck

That's where I'm starting my POE today.

[BrightEyedFish]

@BEF - if you're going to POE the wagon, you shouldn't leave off TD and Bambi. If you're going to analyze the wagon, analyze all of it.

I said I want to

START

my PoE on the latter half of the wagon (i.e. the Post-Titus votes)

I'm not tunneled on only those slots but that's where I will start looking.

[BrightEyedFish]

Why not just do the whole thing in one shot? Why such a quick defense?

Because that's my process. You think I'm scum here?

tehehe.

[BrightEyedFish]

Are you nervous because you are in that lot? You were on my TRs for D1 but you coming at me like this with the "quick defense" comment makes that read shaky.

[BrightEyedFish]

I'd honestly prefer if we start on the people leading the counterwagon instead. Considering someone like Goofball called for a Vig shot on people voting IKS, it felt more like there was a chainsaw defense and less bussing.

You can do that, I'll look through my PoE and then we can compare notes.

[BrightEyedFish]

Why would scum bus before a claim, especially when there was a seemingly valid counter to work with?
Possibly more importantly, what do you think about people who switched from NPOM vs. people who hadn't voted NPOM?

My thoughts: any new bussing (if any) is after claim, and probably not the first 1-2 after claim. Pre-claim bussing (if any) should be much earlier in the wagon before it got real, and people who had laid a foundation to not vote NPOM.

2nd person (from my PoE) to toss shade on my scum hunting.

noted.

[BrightEyedFish]

NPOM- is it a deliberate tactic to post 3 or 4 short posts in a row, usually not quoting what you are referring to, in order to screw up any iso reads?

BEF/Pooky- was the dayvig/daydoc serious, or just Bantz?

if BEF is a dayvig then I'm a daydoc

if BEF is not a dayvig then I guess I could still be a daydoc?

I couldn't have said it better myself.

[BrightEyedFish]

VOTE: TiphaineDeath Why focus on the latter half of IKS's wagon instead of the earlier half? Why are we targeting IKS's wagon at all?

Does the vote go with the comment?

Shush!

[BrightEyedFish]

Looker, pisskop, davesaz, WaltertheDunce10

First I will. eliminate my TRs from D1. Starbuck is wavering and losing that TR but for now SB leans town.

Looker

(1471):
Looks like a meh vote, wouldn't expect this style from a scum buddy.

pisskop

(1525):
Again, feels like a vote from someone now aligned with IKS.

davesaz

(1526):
Empty vote, no real mention of IKS previously in Dave's ISO.

WaltertheDunce10

(1713,1714):
Vote feels generic. Like the OK was given to bus IKS in the scum PT and this is Scum!Walt's limp onto the wagon.

Hot take, if NPOM ever flips Red, Walter does too... don't know if this is me just being silly

So I would normally go chronologically through my votes but now I want to reverse that order:

Up first:

VOTE: WaltertheDunce10

[BrightEyedFish]

EBWOP

pisskop

(1525):
Again, feels like a vote from someone

not

aligned with IKS.

[BrightEyedFish]

Starbuck is wavering and losing that TR but for now SB leans town.

Either I have it or I lost it, but don't lose it because I asked you a question/challenged you. I'm still trying to figure out your slot because your lack of participation yesterday didn't help me very much.

It's not that black or white. I TR you yesterday and your "challenge" to me made the waters blurry. I am trying to stay objective thats why I didn't completely throw you in my scum pile.

[BrightEyedFish]

It is that black and white.

But you do you, boo.

Are you scum claiming?

[BrightEyedFish]

It's just interesting how, based on our only direct interaction (I think), that you're suddenly changing your tune.

I said I was contemplating changing my tune.

[BrightEyedFish]

Where was the claim in this sequence

Timestamp of IKS's claim Sun Sep 27, 2020 3:00:09 pm
After my vote, about 20-30 minutes before NPOM's vote.

Why not call yourselves the Axis of Good?

[BrightEyedFish]

The quote on my last post is irrelevant to my post.

[BrightEyedFish]

I'm actually SUPER ok with the idea of NPOM and CHK both being scum here. Like, legendarily ok with it.

You keep putting my fuckin name in your mouth with little to no actual context to the read whatsoever. So if you wanna actually engage me with something, put your big boy pants on and do so. "This post is bad because gut" is less than worthless, dude, and we both know that.

I don't think your scum if that helps.

[BrightEyedFish]

This is a better wagon than NPOM today because they should not be the same alignment.

You don't think this could be TvT? Or are you saying if one of them flips scum then the other is auto town?

[BrightEyedFish]

Actually, no. Where did I say the wagon was too fast bud?

I feel like if given the opportunity he'll revert back to playing the game. Lemme see those posts and I'll get back to you.

Wagon speed was too swift to be good though, no?

I know you have enough experience to know it's a meta read. Acting dumb about it is not a good look.

She hasn't read me correctly probably ever, dude.

She got close once and died. It be like that.

[BrightEyedFish]

if we are gonna wagon NPOM, let's fucking do it.

Has this sentiment from you completely vanished?

I'm telling you guys. You don't want to lynch NPOM

I know you said later on something to the effect that you have nothing "solid" irt post 221, but is your NPOM town read gone?

[BrightEyedFish]

Which in this case is wrong. But I'm done fighting.

If you give up, they have... wait for it... wait...

Spoiler:

the power over you


Live up to your name.

[BrightEyedFish]

Fish, I really need an "I'm town" gif from you rn.

I'm experiencing... doubt.

[BrightEyedFish]

That doesn't say "I'm town" tho. Hrm.

Chk plays every game blind

But do I be gettin results?

[BrightEyedFish]

if we are gonna wagon NPOM, let's fucking do it.

Has this sentiment from you completely vanished?

I'm telling you guys. You don't want to lynch NPOM

I know you said later on something to the effect that you have nothing "solid" irt post 221, but is your NPOM town read gone?

I never once had a town read on NPOM.

Ok, so was it a non-scum read?

[BrightEyedFish]

I actually think looker is town. just a really bored town. I wish he'd take the game more cereal.

I don't understand how you can be "bored town" when you haven't even been here other than to sling insults.

Just the formatting alone in the post SB mentioned doesn't give me the "bored" vibe.

[BrightEyedFish]

@starbuck, he was not a sinking ship, NPOM wagon was very real alternative.

EXACTLY!

That's why I suspect scum to be at the tail end of the IKS wagon in comparison to the beginning of the wagon.

[BrightEyedFish]

@NPOM

What is this band invite thing that you said I confirmed? I did not confirm/receive anything.

[BrightEyedFish]

If you satisfy your wincon, do you leave the game?

nah we all win together as soon as I lock in my band, if they are all PROTOWN, the game is OVA. If I'm wrong though I just die a horrible death.




anyway I'm done recruiting thanks for helping me nail down the last LOCKTOWNs.

SUPER METAL ROCK GOD BAND ASSEMBLEEEE!

HEAL: DrippingGoofball
HEAL: Lavender
HEAL: BrightEyedFish
HEAL: Doctor Drew
HEAL: Princess Leia

I confirm the band invitation.

Oh that. I thought you were talking about something mechanic.

[BrightEyedFish]

So you're slaying it's fluff and not an actual faction?

I don't know if it did anything mechanically or not.

I took it as playful banter at that time.

[BrightEyedFish]

How do you rate the people he "recruited" aside from you?

Right now, I would not be interested in shredding any of them.

[BrightEyedFish]

Fish asked me about the band so yes I do get to comment on it.

If BEF suggested looking at it in the first place and he's in the list, what are you thinking?

NPOM mentioned it in his readlist in my section. And I had forgot about the band invite thing.

I think it means about as much as my dayvig.

[BrightEyedFish]

What happens after we shred NPOM, regardless of his alignment?

[BrightEyedFish]

Like watcher cop doctor etc.

This is my first baker game. But looking at our flips so far and skimming some other Baker setup. He doesn't typically use the standard name for roles so is this some type of "rolefishing-masked-as-derping" play"?

[BrightEyedFish]

Day Two is paused with 8 days and 16 hours remaining while I seek replacement for WalterTheDunce10

We are still paused right?

[BrightEyedFish]

Why did you stop participating, BJ?

Anytime you say BJ I think of something else.

Baby Jesus?

[BrightEyedFish]

VOTE: Looker

S-1

[BrightEyedFish]

I buy it.

UNVOTE:

[BrightEyedFish]

Do we really lose much killing a VT claim? Why the unvote? Because getting another claim today seems weird.

We lose a town player.

[BrightEyedFish]

I still would like to shred the Walt slot but I feel weird voting there again while the slot is vacant.

I guess it's time to truck on down the line to...

VOTE: Dave

[BrightEyedFish]

I think the claim is believableeee
Not too sure if it’s worth it to hop somewhere else

Also, I think I missed the posts, but what was the case against the Walter slot?

My case was made at the start of D2 on post 1876

Dave was my 2nd choice then.

[BrightEyedFish]

I still would like to shred the Walt slot but I feel weird voting there again while the slot is vacant.

I guess it's time to truck on down the line to...

VOTE: Dave

What was the dave shit about? Genuinely don't remember.

Dave was my 2nd most likely to be scum on the IKS wagon, behind Walter.

[BrightEyedFish]

although, to be honest, i would also totally support shredding the Walter spot as opposed to waiting around for a replacement, 112 pages in.

VOTE: Walter

[BrightEyedFish]

VOTE: Assemblerotws

[BrightEyedFish]

Don't you think it's a little hypocritical to vote Gamma when you were on the wagon too?

I don't really blame anyone for being on the wagon tbh. It was obvious that looker was going to flip town, even more so after the claim. Scum is probably on the wagon but I haven't decided if they are early or late wagon, or both. Assemblerotws (Walt) is still my top read.

Gamma and Dave aren't looking to towny either.

[BrightEyedFish]

Dave wagon?

I'm down for that.

[BrightEyedFish]

Sorry you mean davesez.

Why is he scummy?

Same reason as Walt basically.



He naked votes/busses scum buddy IKS after that wagon had momentum.

VOTE: IKS

Does a similar naked vote on town!Looker but puts a small disclaimer on it.

VOTE: Looker
Might as well put this to use in the meantime.

[BrightEyedFish]

FWIW, I think we have a town!A50 among us!

On the other hand, silent Bambi is starting to make me want to look there.

[BrightEyedFish]

Silent Bambi is figuring out what to do. I'm doing something at night but I don't know what. literally.

Like a werewolf?

[BrightEyedFish]

In other news fish is dumb or scum. I'm not betting on scum.

What is the point of this? Insecurity?

[BrightEyedFish]

BEF- is it meta for you to sheep so much? I went back through your VC, and even though yes, you made a list of targets and have been working from that list.... at least three of your votes come within about 20-30 minutes of someone else voting that person.

I'm a team player. Sometimes I blindly sheep a tr if I have no real reads of my own but if I have similar views on a slot and someone expresses interested on pushing their then I have no problem following them.

[BrightEyedFish]

I would be worried about any wagon with death and Drew on It.

Are you implicating yourself here?

[BrightEyedFish]

To Everyone who was on either or both of the NPOM wagons: I switched over. I was the main reason some people held back. What is holding you back now?

VOTE: NPOM

[BrightEyedFish]

After this wagon is finished either by shred or organic dismantling, I would hope you would support an assemble push with me if nothing changes my read on that slot.

[BrightEyedFish]

After this wagon is finished either by shred or organic dismantling, I would hope you would support an assemble push with me if nothing changes my read on that slot.

Oh, I support it.

Yes, but will you show your support with your vote?

[BrightEyedFish]

i would vote npom but i dont know what the vote count is and i dont wanna lol-hammer so this is an intent to vote

S-5

The VC is on the last page.

[BrightEyedFish]

VOTE: TiphaineDeath

[BrightEyedFish]

can we get a big people vc?

I think this is right but I may have missed something.

DrippingGoofball (1): Iecerint
NoPowerOverMe (5): a2rudeboy, TiphaineDeath, PookyTheMagicalBear, pisskop, Gamma Emerald
TiphaineDeath (7): Galron, NoPowerOverMe, chkflip, Starbuck, Doctor Drew, DrippingGoofball, BrightEyedFish


Not Voting (5): Lavender, Bambi Jay, Assemblerotws, Almost50, davesaz,

[BrightEyedFish]

Walter also genuinely tried to solve things

Are you mechanically connected to the Assemble slot?

[BrightEyedFish]

Walter also genuinely tried to solve things

Are you mechanically connected to the Assemble slot?

Do I have to be to fucking defend it?

No. But I just want to know if your strong read on Assemble is based on anything...

Spoiler:

More than a feeling

[BrightEyedFish]

Anyway, the other thing I feel like demonstrates Walter’s towny solving drive is his attempts to analyze some of the IKS voter’s vote movements, but those posts are walls so I’ll spare the quoting of them, and if you can’t bother to find them yourself Ill just link the posts.

This was after I did the VCA that pointed to Walter and he was scrambling to dilute the water.

[BrightEyedFish]

Anyway, the other thing I feel like demonstrates Walter’s towny solving drive is his attempts to analyze some of the IKS voter’s vote movements, but those posts are walls so I’ll spare the quoting of them, and if you can’t bother to find them yourself Ill just link the posts.

This was after I did the VCA that pointed to Walter and he was scrambling to dilute the water.

Would you like to refine your timeline?

My post: 1721
Walt's post: 1753

[BrightEyedFish]

What do you mean by "only not on town?"

and
What do you mean by "Only not on scum"?

[BrightEyedFish]

IKS had outed the scum team flavor.

I don't remember, what team flavor did he out?

[BrightEyedFish]

@chk: Yeah, I'm starting to get the feeling DGB isn't even thinking about her posts.. but rather posting to keep the appearance. Too bad her wagon is of only one vote, cuz that's where I'd have voted if it was a competing wagon.

@NPOM: I am of two minds here. I agree it "could" be an indication (now that you put it that way) but I also am not sure it is. Sometimes we all claim what we perceive our riles to be and not the exact wording on the PM (God knows I do/did that a lot, and even most recently)

Not chk but a DGB wagon does interest me.

[BrightEyedFish]

VOTE: DGB

[BrightEyedFish]

I would be worried about any wagon with death and Drew on It.

Are you implicating yourself here?

How does your question flow from what you quoted?

NPOM was the wagon he was walking about.

And your next couple of posts are semantic stuffs. Are you trying to "catch" me or just poking at me?

3468
But, or, if, and would work in that sentence for me.

3469
He asked "What" in the question not "why" Also, I think my response would be a sufficient response even if was a Why question.

[BrightEyedFish]

Well friends, the night was uneventful kill wise.

Oops I missed this.

Now I am getting hung up on semantics... the "kill wise" part is making me paranoid now. It could suggest that only "kills" were somehow blocked?

[BrightEyedFish]

I find that hard to believe you would not check for a kill.

+1

[BrightEyedFish]

Who's more likely not to check for a kill town or scum? Scum talk about the kill in their topic. Checking for the kill is always the first thing I do as town.

Not to mention it was in the D3 PM.

[BrightEyedFish]

Gamma hath summoned me! lol

Anybody have tips on things I should pay close attention to as i read the thread?

Or a time line of things I should look jump to first?

If both gamma and Grendel slots are scum that's borderline cheating imo.

[BrightEyedFish]

I was never subtle about the fact I was inviting someone. What happened was I went on discord to drop a line to my homesite friends who play mafia and I noticed a DM from Grendel right as I finished writing my request, so I asked him via DM and he said he’d give it a shot after I promised to help with anything he was missing in the thread that he needed help with.

I'm pretty sure this is an admission to bringing outside influences into the game.

[BrightEyedFish]

you basically made an alliance with someone before they a were apart of the game.

[BrightEyedFish]

"2. Do not bring outside influences into the game - this includes threats, bribes, wagers, promises, "trust tells", alliances, etc. Using knowledge from previous games is perfectly acceptable, but try not to carry grudges from one game to another."

[BrightEyedFish]

Emphasis on " promises, "trust tells", alliances"

[BrightEyedFish]

Recruiting someone isn't necessarily an alliance.

making "promise" to help is.

[BrightEyedFish]

thats an extremely stretchy reading dude

Maybe, but it needs to be addressed. It's not my call and I will accept mod's decision with no objections.

[BrightEyedFish]

If I were to not vote him despite feeling he were scum at some point due to me having brought him in/any reason associated with that, that could be considered an alliance. What I want you to compare this to is the relationship between the experienced and inexperienced players in a newbie game. I will guide him but I will not place victory in the game below assisting him.

I don't think you invited him to "cheat" or anything. It just feels strange. If both of you are scum or you are scum, then that is a definite outside influence.

[BrightEyedFish]

like im assuming when Gamma said "help"

he means like explain the rules and shit.

not like I got your back and will support you to win the game regardless of your alignment.

This is EXACTLY what I mean actually. I essentially am affording him an extra lot of patience when it comes to explaining mechanics, flips, stuff like that. I know the game is long so it’s possible he might not be able to read all of it to catch everything being discussed.

That's not a problem as long as it's done in the game thread.

[BrightEyedFish]

Ok. I'll drop it.

[BrightEyedFish]

Tbh I’m trying to remember a time when a late arriving role PM has caused significant trouble. I vaguely remember something but it’s faint in my mind.

Maybe Grendel replaced into a PR with certain knowledge from Night Actions or some other mechanical thing (quick example, post restriction) that would mess things up.

[BrightEyedFish]

The amount of discussion over Grendel's replacement in, makes me think one of BEF/NPOM is scum.

I can guarantee you that if I were scum, I would have kept my opinion on the the Grend replacement to myself.

[BrightEyedFish]

Also, I do like Grendel's posts so far. You can't compare it to Walt or Assemble. If it weren't for that VCA on IKS I would TR that slot.

THat being said, I don't want to shred there today.

[BrightEyedFish]

I looked at to Lav games and this is very much the same. She was town in both of those. I haven't looked yet at a scum game.

Meta me please.

Wiki is up to date to assist you.

[BrightEyedFish]

Not at midnight+40.

No rush.

[BrightEyedFish]

I looked at to Lav games and this is very much the same. She was town in both of those. I haven't looked yet at a scum game.

Meta me please.

Wiki is up to date to assist you.

Not sure what I'd look for though. "Meta" for me is a general behavior trend which is either usual or unusual. In Lavender's case it was easy to check if she posts infrequently and has a lot of apologetic expressions and a lack of attention as both alignments. I haven't identified a behavior trend to check for you.

It wouldn't be difficult for you to see that this is me 100% on my town game.

[BrightEyedFish]

Anyway, the other thing I feel like demonstrates Walter’s towny solving drive is his attempts to analyze some of the IKS voter’s vote movements, but those posts are walls so I’ll spare the quoting of them, and if you can’t bother to find them yourself Ill just link the posts.

This was after I did the VCA that pointed to Walter and he was scrambling to dilute the water.

Would you like to refine your timeline?

My post: 1721
Walt's post: 1753

1721 was hardly what I'd call VCA.
1826 is the first thing you posted that can be called analysis.

Maybe you missed this.

I didn't miss it. My timeline works for me, sorry it doesn't work for you. But hey, I'm probably just dumb, right?

[BrightEyedFish]

Looking through some of my alt accounts, I've nailed scum!dave 100% of the time.

I don't see why this game should be any different.

[BrightEyedFish]

Nope you're misrepresenting a "hey there might be a bus after the claim" as VCA.
That doesn't even come close.
I think it's scummy to focus on that and only that, taking apparently nothing else that is going on into consideration.

Thats the only thing that caught my eye from my D1 VCA.

ATM, I am not voting Grend or you if that says anything.

[BrightEyedFish]

You really don't get the point.
What you did isn't VCA.
Calling it VCA is the problem.
Get it yet?

You love working me on semantics. And you call my arguments "superficial".

[BrightEyedFish]

I get that you don't want to work with me. Maybe scum!you are working against me or perhaps you just get some weird pleasure out of it.

If town!you thinks I am scum, then vote me. If town!you thinks I am town then just stay in your lane.

[BrightEyedFish]

Do you generally mock people you want to work with?

[BrightEyedFish]

Nope, and you'll also be glad to know that everyone has ignored me when I told them you were scum .

cuz its so laughably wrong

[BrightEyedFish]

EbWOP

I wish Dave and I could shade on each other like you two do it.

[BrightEyedFish]

Do you generally mock people you want to work with?

Generally speaking I'm not intending to mock people when I say they're going about something the wrong way.
Whether they feel I am is not something I generally pick up on.

In other news fish is dumb or scum. I'm not betting on scum.

What is the point of this? Insecurity?

Derision.

[BrightEyedFish]

Looking through some of my alt accounts, I've nailed scum!dave 100% of the time.

I don't see why this game should be any different.

I'm going to write this off until you actually tell me what those alts are.

That's not going to happen

Maybe a good detective could figure it out.

UNVOTE:

[BrightEyedFish]

Sorry, I've been distracted by more non-AI things in this game. Trying to get back on track.

I hadn't really given Iec's slot much attention. I read over the ISO and I am not seeing anything that screams scum however, I don't feel that this slot should be written off as town atm as there were some moments that lacked genuineness.

Spoiler:

Well if they were in last game I'm guessing they're waiting until Goofball bites the dust. Or they aren't gonna pull an Alch and make their wincon unwinnable by revealing too early.

Wait, are you an alt, or did you just watch/read the last game?

I dunno what "deep reads" means, though. Like, my list is ordinal. The top is most town, the bottom is least town. The town folks near the NULL section are progressively weaker townreads.

And iceprint is TRing him?

TRing?

Walter, what do you make of people suspecting you?

I have noticed that you almost totally ignore it.

Also, just speculating that if Iec ever flips red then there are probably scum within the 5-6 referenced in 2472

[BrightEyedFish]

UNOFFICIAL VC:

Grendel (3): Bambi Jay, TiphaineDeath, chkflip
DrippingGoofball (1): Iecerint
TiphaineDeath (3): Galron, Starbuck, pisskop
Lavender (3): a2rudeboy, Gamma Emerald, Grendel
NPOM (2): Doctor Drew, PookyTheMagicalBear
Iecerint (1): DrippingGoofball

Not Voting (5): Lavender, NoPowerOverMe, davesaz, Almost50, BrightEyedFish

[BrightEyedFish]

VOTE: TiphaineDeath

[BrightEyedFish]

VOTE: Grendel

[BrightEyedFish]

VOTE: Iec

[BrightEyedFish]

Screw it.

VOTE: Iecerint

[BrightEyedFish]

NPOM is probably scum. I think I have come around after doing some of my secret meta techniques here.

VOTE: NPOM

I only read 1 NPOM scum game but the correlations are very similar.

[BrightEyedFish]

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=83882

A NPOM scum game for those wondering.

[BrightEyedFish]

Intent to hammer.

[BrightEyedFish]

That's... super vague. What's similar?

Postings styles/lengths/cadences.

[BrightEyedFish]

This game:

He was obviously trying to stand out with his play style this game.

Scum Game:

my playstyle tends to attract attention. I try to use that to my teams advantage on both sides, but me being mislynched as town is not uncommon.

///////////////

This game:

Never mind, I did get a game start PM, i just missed it, my bad.

Scum Game:

I could tell that skipping rvs was going to annoy inoc, which is exactly why i did it. I read players better when they are on tilt.

///////////////

This game:

The people voting me are doing so on personal bias(starbuck) or OMGUS(ice). Let's lynch actual scum.

Scum Game:

OMGUSing is a scumtrait. If it wasn't people would just continuously attack those attacking them.

///////////////

This game:

VOTE: Pooky

Naked voting sucks.

Scum Game:

Except her reads suck.

[BrightEyedFish]

VOTE: Iecerint

[BrightEyedFish]

If your secret meta techniques is something else, please explain it.

Well then it wouldn't be secret.

[BrightEyedFish]

She's not denying being scum.

Do you deny being scum?

[BrightEyedFish]

That really felt like BEF wanted to be able to be on the bus wagon

I want to shred in this order:

Assemble
NPOM
Iec

[BrightEyedFish]

OF I mean Grendel as nummer 1.

[BrightEyedFish]

Is Iec at shred-1? Intent to hammer if so.

I think the current count is S-3

[BrightEyedFish]

That really felt like BEF wanted to be able to be on the bus wagon

What do you mean?

BEF thought Iece was happening and wanted to vote before hammer dropped, then switched off after momentum there had switched away
Reeks of wanting bus cred imo

I'm still on Iec...

[BrightEyedFish]

I made my NPOM meta case and switched my vote there. IT went nowhere so I went back to Iec.

[BrightEyedFish]

I even played along and did the "fake hammer" on Iec, which nothing came of.

[BrightEyedFish]

So I decided to look into everyone's reads on Grendel and I have a nice scattershot of questions now.

@BEF, davesaz, chk, DGB, TDeath: where is Grendel in your shred preference order? I know you already said this in basic terms BEF, but I want you specifically to expand on your thoughts.

#1 for me. Or at least the Walter slot was due to the IKS wagon.

[BrightEyedFish]

Also, I do like Grendel's posts so far. You can't compare it to Walt or Assemble. If it weren't for that VCA on IKS I would TR that slot.

THat being said, I don't want to shred there today.

How curious.

Thats whyI said "You can't compare it to Walt or Assemble."

[BrightEyedFish]

Why is it so hard to get people to vote Iecerint to get a claim?

I was at shred-1 sans intent from nothing in a span of something like 6 hours of paroxysmal insanity; people unvoted after they started regaining the ability to think.

When were you at S-1?

[BrightEyedFish]

Walt-Assemble-Gren slot was my #1 today (which I have not been shy about)... based on the play of Walt.

I don't get how it is double talk?

[BrightEyedFish]

Also the way TD claimed indicates he is scum. See looker's flip. He was a vanilla shredder not vanilla town.

Anyways, I'm a town shredder and I feel like hyperposting makes it harder for scum to catch town power roles and easier for town night actions to go through. I don't see how revealing my strategy is helpful though.

The first quote is just the latest example but haven't you made several references to the exact wording of the Vanilla Shredder claim and yet when you claim you use the wrong nomenclature?

[BrightEyedFish]

Why are you trying to distract from the leading wagons?

Obviously my point was he didn't say shredder.

This has nothing to do with rude

[BrightEyedFish]

Obviously why don't you argue for rude or iec instead of distracting.

Rude was basically the only reason why I TR you on D1. He went back on that later. And I have TR rude since the start.

[BrightEyedFish]

[quote="In post 4451, Galron"][/quote]


No for sure if this is that telling though since Looker already flipped VS

[BrightEyedFish]

And what do you think of DGBs behavior?

I was with her on the Iec case but I've never been able really read DGB in any game.

[BrightEyedFish]

Y'all being weird about rude.

I still don’t get it but I still haven't fully woken up today

[BrightEyedFish]

I might be willing to consider a lavender compromise but I wouldn't be happy about it.

But I'm not happy about any rudeboy compromise.

There has not been any real disagreement from the Grendel slot. It just never gained enough momentum. Where does taking another 180 so late in the game net us info wise? Cause now we have Rude as the counter to Iec and then a potential Laven counter to the counter is just a mess to sort.

I think its in our best ineterest to stay within all previous wagons:

Grendel
NPOM
Iec
Rude

venturing further out could hit another scum but does nothing to settle the slots that yield the most suspicion.

[BrightEyedFish]

Come to think about it, I think there was a somewhat large Lavender wagon as some point though I can't if it was more than 2-3 people.

[BrightEyedFish]

*Though I can't remember

[BrightEyedFish]

You may not be happy about Rude but the case on him is legitimate. He is not scumhunting on any level.

So is the case on Iec and Grendel and you for that matter. Unless everyone that has cases those 3 is scum which I highly doubt.

Also, its not that I'm unhappy about it, I just don't get it and the timing/speed is suspect.

[BrightEyedFish]

I was just fucking with you, dave.

timing/speed

Explain.

IMO there has never been any real attempt to push rude. Iec gets to S-1 and claims. People buy the claim and move on. THat's all good but the sudden appearance in shredding Rude was a u-turn I guess I wasn't ready for. Maybe, I just wanted closure on this day because I feel its getting to broad and wanted to reign it end.

It just feels off to me.

[BrightEyedFish]

The case on Grendel is based largely on the non activity of his predecessors from what I can tell.

For me it is exactly the opposite.

Its the actions/voting from Walt that formed my opinion on the slot. I'm trying not to let confbias get in my reasoning there so I tried to give Grendel a chance but regardless of how I feel about Grendels ISO apart from Walt/Assemble I still have doubts on that slot as a whole.

[BrightEyedFish]

And yet we have a viable wagon on someone who went from LOLing to resigning to die and post some woe is me bullshit. Neither response is actually defending themself, btw, which is something you'd expect from a town slot y/n?

Also, it's weird that you went from "I think rude is town" to "I just wanted to lynch Iec and end the day" with timing/speed as the explanation. I don't think you're scum for it, since I don't have a flip yet, but you can see how that transition is strange right?

I do think rude is town.

Also, I get that me not jumping on the Rude wagon looks bad on me if rude ever flips red. I'd help shred rude if none of my options show present themselves to avoid a no-shred.

[BrightEyedFish]

Also, I get that me not jumping on the Rude wagon looks bad on me if rude ever flips red. I'd help shred rude if none of my options show present themselves to avoid a no-shred.

Nah nah nah nah nah nah nahnahnahnahhhhh.

That's not what I'm saying. You thinking rude is town is fine. Fucks sake I thought Siteflake was town. It's the fact that you've gone from "I think this wagon is wrong bc townread" to "I think this wagon is wrong bc speed/timing." It's a really strange transition to make, especially so quickly. Again, don't think you're scummy off of it, it's just... weird.

Have you never seen an EoD speedwagon before? They used to be somewhat common. And the speed is two parts: one part "oh fuck we need a lynch" and one part "oh hey that guy is in my null/scum pile, this is fine."

It's about reading the room, Fish. I'm not gonna say I'm some savant, or that I'm even very good at this, but I've seen his name a lot and I've seen him do a whole lot of not much while griping about those that're doing less than he is. Mmmmmm doesn't sit well with me, bud.

Explain why you're town reading them.

I didn't go "I think this wagon is wrong bc townread" to "I think this wagon is wrong bc speed/timing."

Its a combination of those 3.

I've been supportive of most wagons and people have even asked if its normal that I "sheep" so much, so I have been reading the room. It's not like I have told anyone specifically to unvote, I just want people to be aware.

Also, if you think I have any sway in which wagon we will go after you aren't reading the room.

[BrightEyedFish]

VOTE: a2rudeboy

[BrightEyedFish]

Iecerint (4): DrippingGoofball, Doctor Drew, pisskop, Galron
DrippingGoofball (2): Iecerint, Bambi Jay
TiphaineDeath (2): Starbuck, Grendel
davesaz (1): TiphaineDeath
a2rudeboy (6): chkflip, NoPowerOverMe, PookyTheMagicalBear, Gamma Emerald, davesaz, BrightEyedFish
Lavender (1): a2rudeboy

Not Voting (2): Lavender, Almost50

[BrightEyedFish]

I get it.

I joined in on rude because I can't really defend my TR there on anything other than gut.
If we flip a town slot here, I just hope people will be more open to my angles in the coming days.

[BrightEyedFish]

VOTE: Iecerint

[BrightEyedFish]

Give me all that flack about wanting Iec over rude and then do this switcheroo on me.

smh.

[BrightEyedFish]

well. scum is doing a good job of taking out the best town players.

And we are doing a good job of shredding out scum.

[BrightEyedFish]

VOTE: Iecerint

look at fishy trying to swim back upstream lolol

I though it was another fake S-1/hammer so I just did it. I was also a bit salty at chk for pushing me to get off of Iec and the then jumping on the Iec wagon.

[BrightEyedFish]

who r we killing today

With a quick RCE Shotgun Read© I would say rude or chk but I want to take some time to look at VCA before I commit to anything.

[BrightEyedFish]

Being towny is just part of being good Town though. What were their reads before they were killed?

I'm saying Titus and Starbuck are two of the most experienced players in the game, offering good content, that Scum wouldnt want to be stuck in lylo with. I already pointed out where Chk specifically said he wanted to get rid of titus in a game where he was scum, for this very reason.

I'm still all aboard the Lav train.

Who would you say are 2-3 others that would follow Titus and Buck according to your exp and good content list?

[BrightEyedFish]

I didn't mean to send that.


Almost50, Lavender, and BrightEyedFish weren't on either scum wagon.


Which names stand out to you?

I was on IKS and I should have been on Iec.

[BrightEyedFish]

TOWN

Iecerint
TiphaineDeath
A50
Titus
Doctor Drew
Pooky
a2rudeboy aka Hypnotoad
Galron
Pisskop
Gamma
BrightEyed
Starbuck
Princess Leia/REPLACEMENT

Lavender
Nono

Looker
DGB
IKS
Walter
Bambi
NPOM

SCUM

Intersting. Iec put IKS in a scum slot. What are the chances he put another buddy in that lot?

[BrightEyedFish]

@they may have thrown
why are following players in your list on positions they are in?
Galron, Pisskop, Walter, DGB, NPOM, iecerint, starbucks.

Galron: I townread him for his 339. This was his "people are attacking Leia and TD for NAI" post. He was the only one saying that kind of thing at the time.

Pisskop: I actually scumread him on his initial replace-in, but I didn't trust my scumread because I townread him (when he was scum) in our last game we played together (Baker's last game, now completed). His play in this game IS different from that game, so I wondered if I needed to turn my readhead upside-down. Then, I realized that the difference was mostly caused by his having replaced in, and I wondered if I needed to have my readhead put back. When I read his replace-in posts a couple more times (during my initial readthrough I paused and read his catch-up a couple of times), I eventually decided he was town. IIRC at first I was puzzled by a dissonant read he listed, which led to a scumread, but I was able to figure it out when I read it a second or third time. So, this one had a lot of back-and-forth mostly based on his replace-in posts. Overall, he has seemed like he wants to solve the game.

Walter: Went into my NULL pile originally and then re-sorted to scum when I read his iso and realized that (at that time) he had posted no content whatsoever while also having a fair number of posts. This differentiated him from someone like Lavender. He went lower on the list than Looker because Looker had a handful of townie-seeming posts in his iso.

DGB: I usually have a really strong townread on DGB when she is town. I don't have a really strong townread on DGB. I put her directly into scum without having to sort her from NULL. Also, I am surprised that she has totally ignored NPOM, because I would expect her to really focus on the whole "set-up outguessing" premise that Rudeboy mentioned, since she usually crusades against this kind of thing (e.g., the same Baker game that was just completed -- in that game, it was about "oh maybe this 3p will be townie" that she crusaded against, but it's a similar overprivileging of /outguess over scumhunting). But, it's more the former than the latter, because I think that associative tells are usually not helpful D1.

NPOM: This should be obvious; most of my iso is about NPOM. He made multiple early scumtells and his posts since then have been either brazenly without scumhunting, or fake scumhunting (e.g., posting a readslist that lists Leia when at that point Dave had replaced in and been active for awhile). [INB4 He posts pointing out that I did the same thing in my reads post but.] The main case for not shredding him is that Rudeboy says he's *possibly* a phantom jester (or some other shred-shenanigans role).

Iecerint: I embody the Iecerint.

Starbuck: I just think she's town. Prolly because she saw the thread the same way as me for a lot of the game I think. Townread has gotten stronger from content since I posted my readslist.

Hmm. That IKS analysis feels alot like the Pisskop one. DGB paragraph feels off too. Would DGB bus like that?

[BrightEyedFish]

EBWOP

Wait scratch that- For some reason I though the NPOM paragraph was about IKS...

That kind of makes me TR pisskop now.

Maybe I should read better.

I just notcied that this is a dialogue between IKS and IEC:

Scum in IKS request?

Galron, Pisskop, Walter, DGB, NPOM,

iecerint

,

starbucks

[BrightEyedFish]

If we remove PK and DGB due to the bussing/similar analysis thing that leaves. Gal, Grend (Walt) and NPOM.

Gal was on the IEC wagon.
Grend (Walt) was on IKS (at a peculiar spot may I remind you)
NPOM on IKS but not Iec

[BrightEyedFish]

I dont think Gal and Iec are on the same team.

Down to Grend and NPOM.

I mean, again I'm back at the Grend and NPOM slots.

[BrightEyedFish]

Is it really an Occam's razor thing here?

[BrightEyedFish]

I feel like rudeboy has some insider info that we should trust since I don't believe scum would stick their neck out for a buddy so directly.

RudeboyTown does not entail RudeboyCorrect.

This feels like Iec just townspewed Rude

[BrightEyedFish]

Right now I think I want to shred in NPOM/IKS/Walter.

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL