mystery box of silver 10. (done)

[Titus]

Plus Loyal targets Player Y
I motion detector Player 1.

If Player Y is scum, Plus’s role won’t go through, and I can possibly get a “no motion detected”

However, scum can counter this because they can have that player make the kill, if anything, but it forces that player into an action, which is at minimum, beneficial.

To follow up, this works if Plus is disloyal too.

Plus Disloyal targets Y.
April Targets Y.

Plus role won't go through on town. Thus April detects no action unless scum also target the slot.
Plus role goes through on scum, forcing that scum to claim an action other than an NK.

[Titus]

I just town read Taylor and MM out of the white names. The rest I don’t have any real connection with this game

Call me egocentric, because I am, but Titus, can I get some of the magic about why you have me as town from VCA?

Sure, but it might be offensive.

You were early on the ban hydras wagon and scum basically sheeped you. Early voters on counterwagons to scum are actually rarely scum themselves. Scum latch on and are desperate, which is supported in other places in the VCs such as the number of counters.

In short, scum used you.

Why would I be offended? I was proven wrong twice. Although ima be real, I’ve kinda adopted that as my strategy. I accept that I’m wrong and let more competent people use my wrongness to solve shit.

Join on SS then?

[Titus]

@Superbowl9, Sorry. I'll try to be more readable. Why is it unreadable?

[Titus]

There’s a lot of claims out there to be sorted but right now we have de facto yours as the only proven one.

How is April’s claim proven?

April claimed to motion detect Titus.
Titus confirmed by saying she neighborized A50.

That’s soft no?

Not sure how you get no out of that.

Someone made a claim. Person confirmed it true.

No. We confirmed a coincidence technically speaking. We confirmed the possibility of April being truthful.

[Titus]

Being wrong is fine, not reevaluating from being wrong or not knowing the possibility you could be wrong is not.

Scum actively do stuff to make people read them incorrectly, that’s just part of the game. Hits will be taken.

Nah. It’s not what they do. I’m just bad. But I’m consistently bad.

Well, you

were

bad. That doesn't mean you can't get better. Where are your reads now?

[Titus]

@Superbowl9, Sorry. I'll try to be more readable. Why is it unreadable?

The sheer amount of content, some relevant/solvey, some AI, is a lot especially with these multiquote walls, pretty sure yall just put up ~10 pages to tell us.... what exactly?
Also while I have your ear wanna remind you and bro to try to use alternatives to the L-word

Sometimes solving, particularly in my happier moods, tends to be more voluminous. I'll try to watch that and using the word "lynch". To be fair to Math, he hasn't played since we're transitioning away from that word. I have no excuse.

[Titus]

Not sure how you get no out of that.

Someone made a claim. Person confirmed it true.

No as in “that’s a soft confirm right”
I don’t think thats any more confirmed than the 6 “mason” roles

Lol 6 mason is a claim. Titus said 6 mason. You say you’re 3P.

So either you’re town plus or 3P 3P or scum plus (unlikely).

I think there’s something incorrect somewhere and you being 3P might be some of it.

Yeah it's simpler just to call them and us "masons" because that's essentially what we are. Technically 3p is a thing.

[Titus]

@Chemist

Yes. That's what I do for all my VCAs. I copy VCs and replace subs. Why?

[Titus]

@Chemist

Yes. That's what I do for all my VCAs. I copy VCs and replace subs. Why?

you said you wanted to question me about sheeping plusjoy onto BH but you haven't done anything to that end

that and you using the wrong pronouns clued me in on that so i figured i should bring it up for clarification

I apologize for using he pronouns.

I didn't have my notes in front of me. But since you're here, why did you sheep Plusjoy onto BH?

@Plusjoyed,

There are two masonries. Each has 3. Almost50 + superbowl + ?. Then there's Titus, Nero, and mastina.
I neighborized A50.

[Titus]

I'd like to work with them, but I need them to share their wincon
peddit: so Titus, when recruiting A50, you just gained A50. A50 has 2 partners and didn't neighborize?

In neighborizing A50, I didn't recruit him. It's just a neighborization. A50 and superbowl claimed yesterday.
A50 has two partners. I don't know if they have additional abilities or not.

[Titus]

I'm logging out so I don't bring out drunk Titus.

Math, can you stop being obtuse or take a break and see what people are doing?

[Titus]

We really just need shelly to confirm or disconfirm Plusjoy's action. :/ I think the game is stalling out but we need that. I need it for my VCA selfishly. We need it as a thread for the execution. I'm going to dramatically slow down my rate of posting so shelly can't claim she missed we need that claim.

[Titus]

Wait, titus, does your masonry have a name too?

Henry P. Jurgenssen Society

[Titus]

kinda want to power elim math or something.

Can't blame you but I always want to power eliminate Math. Math has that tunnel tendandcy.

Even if Math is scum, he'll give us a lot of information.

[Titus]

@Mathblade, You're running yourself ragged trying to avoid the conclusion scum were shopping for a counterwagon and failed.

Logically, gamma could not have been a planned bus because only Pickaxe Pete could be early army on the wagon.

[Titus]

UNVOTE: SS

I don't think he's town per se but I don't want him accidentally eliminated before we solve Shelly.

[Titus]

@Mathblade, You're running yourself ragged trying to avoid the conclusion scum were shopping for a counterwagon and failed.

Logically, gamma could not have been a planned bus because only Pickaxe Pete could be early army on the wagon.

If you read my post carefully I agree, planned bus was impossible based on claims. However I don’t see the evidence of a scum aiming for a counter wagon. I looked at the people on the wagon and a majority of the scum would have to be on Ban All Hydras.

I just don’t see that as viable based on my read.

That's also incorrect. Scum weren't sitting on one counterwagon alone, given the multitude that sprung up.

[Titus]

i think the SS wagon (other than the scumslip) is about as good as the gamma wagon yesterday. that is to say, i think its not good. and how often do scumslips actually come from scum?

Can you clarify this? I read it multple times and it sounds like you're implying the Gamma wagon wasn't good.

[Titus]

@Mathblade, You're running yourself ragged trying to avoid the conclusion scum were shopping for a counterwagon and failed.

Logically, gamma could not have been a planned bus because only Pickaxe Pete could be early army on the wagon.

If you read my post carefully I agree, planned bus was impossible based on claims. However I don’t see the evidence of a scum aiming for a counter wagon. I looked at the people on the wagon and a majority of the scum would have to be on Ban All Hydras.

I just don’t see that as viable based on my read.

That's also incorrect. Scum weren't sitting on one counterwagon alone, given the multitude that sprung up.

A multitude didnt spring up. They were there already.

Check the VC again Titus. Scum were inactive/ineffective.

Scum were. Whenever they'd get on a counterwagon, it died most likely. Scum tried to get counters but town (or town plus 3p if semantic) had synergized.

Now, rather than bicker about theory, let's talk about reads.

I will agree you make a decent point to bump down Pickaxe Pete though.

[Titus]

i think the SS wagon (other than the scumslip) is about as good as the gamma wagon yesterday. that is to say, i think its not good. and how often do scumslips actually come from scum?

Can you clarify this? I read it multple times and it sounds like you're implying the Gamma wagon wasn't good.

it hit scum (probably?). in that sense it was good. but the wagon itself i thought was bad at the time. i never understood why it was so quick to form, why there were no counterwagons, except on BH who was even townier, or what the reasons for the wagon were to begin with.

I think you and I have a different standard for counterwagons.

This post comes from someone who recognizes they are on the outside.

Talk to me about your reads a bit. Who do you want to eliminate (aside from shellyc)?

[Titus]

Town	Titus Plusjoyed Diamond Sentinel Nero Cain shellyc A50 Ban Hydras mastina Menalque
Above Null	NorweiganboyEE The Golden Paradox superbowl9 Bell
Null	DrDolittle something_smart Mathblade jjh927
Lean Scum	Chemist1422 April Ludgate Morning Mage Pickaxe Pete
Scum	Tayl0r Swift

A planned bus doesn't generate four counters. Scum would abandon the bus.

I have realistically 8 names that could be scum. I'm cutting off at above null right now. That needs to have 4 scum.

Can you look at your notes and see who overlaps?

@Math, Pete couldn't move to a counter without losing the towncred.

Second, if scum are in the ineffectives...that points to SS, jjh... DDL...and you.

I am pretty sure Pickaxe moves to Taylor level based on today's developments.

[Titus]

Spoiler: followupVC not colored mobile

breaking a bone is basically nothing

vote count 1.4

Gamma Emerald (8):

Ban Hydras, Pickaxe Pete, Menalque, Titus, superbowl9, NorwegianboyEE, mastina, Morning Mage

Ban Hydras (6):

PlusJOYED, DiamondSentinel, Christøpher, Nero Cain, samantha97, Gamma Emerald

NorwegianboyEE (3):

Almost50, DrDolittle, TheGoldenParadox

Menalque (1):

jjh927

Almost50 (1):

Vecna

April Ludgate (1):

EchoVision

DiamondSentinel (1):

Tayl0r Swift

not voting (2):

April Ludgate, Bell

with 23 alive, it takes 12 to Execute someones Ass. day 1 ends october 24th at 13:30 central US time; in (expired on 2020-10-24 13:30:00)

mod notes

• Christøpher has requested replacement
  
• 1615: good

[/area]

Almost50 a 3P leaves
Nero leaves

Mastina and Morning Mage enter the wagon.

This leaves Morning Mage and Pickaxe Pete as only potential army on the wagon.

On the Ban all hydras wagon added Nero Sam and GE
Nero is 3P who floated between the wagons
GE was voting the biggest wagon other than himself.

So we’re left with Plus DS Christopher (who I think is Chemist) and Samantha (scully I think)

Rule of three says there’s likely a scum somewhere in this list.

However again none of these were really pushing the wagons iirc (please correct me if I am wrong)
Based on tone this didn’t seem like a scum driven wagon either.

So this game seems to be driven by NT players.

This jives with my 2-8 out of no where scum bus just it was NT.

There's no such thing as a rule of three outside of what titus would call moon logic.

Rule of 3 is a thing but Math misapplies it here. Rule of 3 doesn't apply to every gathering of three. Fwiw, I think Chemist might be scum though.

Plus isn't and I doubt DS is.

[Titus]

@Math,

So a team of Pickaxe Pete, Chemist, + ddl, jjh, ss is your solve?

[Titus]

@Math,

So a team of Pickaxe Pete, Chemist, + ddl, jjh, ss is your solve?

@Math, You can include Bell since he never voted any wagon as well.

I want to see your theory.

[Titus]

I voted Gamma, but unvoted when A50 reversed course and argued he was town.
I also voted mastina.

I guess in wagon theory those that don't vote at end of day are more likely to be scum than not?

Nah, it's just that you don't show in any relevant VCA.

Your gamma vote that I saw while conducting the VCs is why you're not lower.

[Titus]

What are the premises or hypotheses of wagon theory that allow for a conclusion?

Premise A) Everyone who has flipped is flipped accurately aka not bastard.
Premise B) Anyone who claims not town is to be assumed to tell the truth.
Premise C) Find remaining players. If remaining players cannot reach the min possible scum percentage the wagon cannot be scum driven. Assume min 4. 4/20 = 20%. That means of 8 people need at least two scum to be scum driven. This is impossible where as on Ban All Hydras it is improbable but possible.
Premise D) If wagon is not scum driven cannot be a planned bus.
Premise E) If wagon is not scum driven drivers are those with the biggest alignment amount. Clearly 3P.

*blinks*

None of this makes sense. Scum driven isn't based on hard and fast numbers but momentum.

[Titus]

@Math,

So a team of Pickaxe Pete, Chemist, + ddl, jjh, ss is your solve?

I don’t have a solve. I just started getting into the groove after the crazy shenanigans. I am using wagon theory to inform me who the likely scum are in combination with reads. I don’t know what a good team size is because of the three p claims so my usual methods won’t work.

Ok. Let's suppose you had to name 5 or 6 scum, not 3p, who would they be? For sake of argument, scum = army = what gamma flipped.

[Titus]

there's only a very very small difference in those statements. Trying to lynch 3p over the threat of the town (in this case the kings army) is a known scum tell.)

Getting a claimed 3P out of the way earlier is ideal in order to avoid interference/uncertainty later.

^^^ scum.

[Titus]

@Math,

So a team of Pickaxe Pete, Chemist, + ddl, jjh, ss is your solve?

I don’t have a solve. I just started getting into the groove after the crazy shenanigans. I am using wagon theory to inform me who the likely scum are in combination with reads. I don’t know what a good team size is because of the three p claims so my usual methods won’t work.

Ok. Let's suppose you had to name 5 or 6 scum, not 3p, who would they be? For sake of argument, scum = army = what gamma flipped.

For sake of argument
20 alive can’t name any 3P claims so minus 6 is 14. Minus me is 13.
Remove April and Plus who I townread and it becomes down to 10.

Hitting 5/6 scum in that list gives me about 50% odds of picking a scum so I would stick with my top scumreads. I don’t need a solve in that scenario.

I'm trying not to get bogged down in theory to get a simple question answered. This frustration is why I want to lynch you every game.

Who is group scum and why?

[Titus]

I meant execute. Sorry.

[Titus]

Ok.

What specifically is it that you don't know? You seem rather invested in proving your VCA right, when it's giving you no solid conclusions whatsoever. So let's back away from that. What is it you don't know?

Please separate that from what you don't believe or are currently questioning.

Right now by defending a theory that leads you to nothing definitive is a big waste of time and spammy.

[Titus]

titus and mathblade, we get that you are siblings engaged in a rivalry and you always scumread each other and youre both very proud of your VCA, but i think its starting to bog the game down. can we look at whos scum rather than try to figure out whos better at finding scum? lets lunch some scum and you can have this contest in postgame.

I was trying to get at Mathblade's scumreads and away from VCA.

His response was all about VCA. I'm trying here.

P.S. I think Pickaxe/Chemist/SS nets at least two scum.

[Titus]

titus and mathblade, we get that you are siblings engaged in a rivalry and you always scumread each other and youre both very proud of your VCA, but i think its starting to bog the game down. can we look at whos scum rather than try to figure out whos better at finding scum? lets lunch some scum and you can have this contest in postgame.

I was trying to get at Mathblade's scumreads and away from VCA.

His response was all about VCA. I'm trying here.

P.S. I think Pickaxe/Chemist/SS nets at least two scum.

Great VCA disagrees with you.

So I wouldn’t follow that conclusion but would exe SS based on my gut.

I am trying to have a non VCA discussion with you.

Set aside VCA. Should we execute Pickaxe Pete or Chemist? Why or Why not?

If Chemist isn't a townread (as you said to Nero), why are you so fast to shoot me down?

[Titus]

Shellyc we could still use you to claim if you were visited.

@Math,

Until you respectfully have a theory or can engage in constructive dialog, please listen more so you can. I see no further point in discussing with you right now.

[Titus]

It was an argument of if there was scum it’s Pickaxe.

but why him and not any of the three players @ the end? that's where I'd expect to find scum if there were any.

I cheat and say both.

[Titus]

So Nero's in that 3p block? Or are they in Titus' presumed masonry?

Either way, I'm not liking their tone, but I might need to reevaluate.

Almost50 Superbowl9 + ?, claimed town aligned 3p.

Me Nero mastina, townsiding 3p

Each 3p groups. Each confirmed not army.

[Titus]

Ugh, then tell them to shape up. They're getting on my nerves.

I'll talk to Nero.

Can you talk to me about Pickaxe Chemist and SS?

[Titus]

I can try. What do you want me to talk about.

Your reads on them. Is it a viable scumteam portion?

I still think there's more vocal scum, and I might have one wrong. I'd be shocked if two were.

[Titus]

Is Shelly an alt?

nah

I'll quote when you sr'd menal when i get back to laptop

Shelly were you visited last night? The answer may clear you.

[Titus]

Shelly were you visited last night? The answer may clear you.

no, I was not visited last night. (at least I did not receive any PM from the mod that indicates that I have been visited)

Ok. So Plusjoyed can answer the question of shelly now.

Thanks.

[Titus]

I think my action on shelly didn't go through but only she knows for sure. I need a harf confirmation or deconfirmation

ok so guessing loyal FN / loud visitor

you were blocked, or I was stopped
im not ascetic at all

He claimed disloyal or loyal something.
If he's disloyal, then the action on you fails if you're town.
If he's loyal, the action fails if you're scum.

We likely have limited roleblockers, given gamma's alien flip. So whatever PlusJOYED got as a result is likely accurate.

[Titus]

He claimed disloyal or loyal something.
If he's disloyal, then the action on you fails if you're town.
If he's loyal, the action fails if you're scum.

i don't get notified whether plus checked me though unless plus is loud or an FN.

I buy plus claim though, checking me is sensible given I've creamed them as scum multiple times
can you give me a list of who claimed what and who is 3p

Plusjoy said his role would give you a notice. So loud, fruit vendor, or friendly neighbor with a disloyal or loyal mod work. I am sure there are others too.

What's important is that Plusjoy claims you would know if his act passed or failed.

[Titus]

ok shelly is conf town
i checked shelly cuz paranoia but mainly vca from her predecessor

Alright. I'll add that to my things to look at.

[Titus]

math gives off townvibes

ok solve is in {Bell, MM, DDL, Chemist, Pickaxe, April(?), TGP}

Aside from missing SS, I like this suspect pool. It likely has a town or two but we can sort that out.

Why no SS?

[Titus]

my full role is odd night disloyal alignment cop inventor.
on odd nights i can target someone. if they aren't town they become a cop
this makes a lot of sense with the "town but not town" mason. I wish they would have revealed this day 1 but whatevs.

Almost50 did. At least we got a clear from it.

[Titus]

SS is unfortunately correct. I don't like his analysis coming out after shellyc and plus but a smart scum team would say she got nothing.

[Titus]

my full role is odd night disloyal alignment cop inventor.
on odd nights i can target someone. if they aren't town they become a cop
this makes a lot of sense with the "town but not town" mason. I wish they would have revealed this day 1 but whatevs.

Almost50 did. At least we got a clear from it.

they claimed miller mason thats a joke claim

It's too late to go get my vodka.

[Titus]

23 scum means minimum 12 town.
Assume all 3P claims are 3P that means 18 total.
23 at start means 4 scum + SK or 5 scum and town Vig
Or
We’re looking at 3P go round and round alignment go round

5 scum and a vig is my bet. It fits with Gamma's rants perfectly. 4 scum with 3 players (in two sets) who will never vote each other is two small.

[Titus]

im pretty sure this means shelly is town.

My bet is she is too based on the situation.

[Titus]

23 scum means minimum 12 town.
Assume all 3P claims are 3P that means 18 total.
23 at start means 4 scum + SK or 5 scum and town Vig
Or
We’re looking at 3P go round and round alignment go round

5 scum and a vig is my bet. It fits with Gamma's rants perfectly. 4 scum with 3 players (in two sets) who will never vote each other is two small.

i think trusting or giving any weight to gamma's rants is a terrible idea here why would he have any incentive to tell the truth

Ok. Don't trust his rants.

Either 4 plus SK or 5 plus vig.
Vigs are usually negative utility and will shoot the town or 3p most likely. SK has no incentive to shoot 3p and is even more imbalanced for scum.

[Titus]

im pretty sure this means shelly is town.

My bet is she is too based on the situation.

Which means we have two town with pants down and nothing to show for it.

Hardly, the resistance to townfirm shelly is a tell in a way. No one highlighted these problems before. Now that the results are in, there's a flaw with the process. That's telling.

[Titus]

23 scum means minimum 12 town.
Assume all 3P claims are 3P that means 18 total.
23 at start means 4 scum + SK or 5 scum and town Vig
Or
We’re looking at 3P go round and round alignment go round

5 scum and a vig is my bet. It fits with Gamma's rants perfectly. 4 scum with 3 players (in two sets) who will never vote each other is two small.

i think trusting or giving any weight to gamma's rants is a terrible idea here why would he have any incentive to tell the truth

Ok. Don't trust his rants.

Either 4 plus SK or 5 plus vig.
Vigs are usually negative utility and will shoot the town or 3p most likely. SK has no incentive to shoot 3p and is even more imbalanced for scum.

Agreed. I think 3P merry go round is much more logical. 4-5 scum vs 6 “masons” seems wrong. (Masons in quotes because not actual masons)

So you're claiming the masons are actually groupscum?

[Titus]

@Math, If you don't think an Army is groupscum after a member literally confessed to being groupscum then I don't know what to say.

[Titus]

@@SS, Who is scum? I don't care about this slip argument.

[Titus]

meanwhile, while you all argue Nero is vote parked on scum.

Why is Taylor scum? I want her to be scum but my scumhunting is leading me a different way.

[Titus]

she could be but im sitting on DS

Yeah, I am not really a fan of DS!scum. Just because I could be wrong though, why?

[Titus]

Hardly, the resistance to townfirm shelly is a tell in a way. No one highlighted these problems before. Now that the results are in, there's a flaw with the process. That's telling.

+1

some masons are probably the "scum"

math is solvy and is evaluating me in a more objective way than TGP and SS who are just binning me away
if y'all hate my vote aorn im willing to compromise in TGP SS

Remind me who you're voting?

[Titus]

I think I need to sleep on things. It's been a busy day. I think this will start to gel tomorrow when I relook at the data again.

[Titus]

EXACTLY this strat, where he or a scumbuddy at his behest (forget which) claimed motion detector (falsely so) to try and synergize with a town loyal/disloyal role (forget which).

Don't remember which game he pulled this in, but he 100% has done it before and would and did do it again.

Which game?

[Titus]

That information doesn't disprove the possibility of an Serial Killer btw.

We're told that's impossible. We're told there are five scum. Everyone else is town aligned.
A serial killer doesn't fit the math either.

[Titus]

Titus could have easily claimed “I know there’s 5 scum and it’s Army” when I was spending all sorts of crazy time running scenarios.

If you have had setup information all along there was 5 scum why let me fucking stew?

Because I didn't trust you and you wouldn't have believed me anyway.

P.S. Don't you sleep?

[Titus]

I feel I am being more than grateful considering Titus’s response to me thinking about things was like “oh I am thinking the 4-5 is more practical” when IF Mastina is truth telling Titus let me sit in my own pool of misery trying to figure this out. So I am a wee (understatement) pissed and I want to know everything Mastina knows. If Mastina’s town aligned it shouldn’t be a problem and should help her April case and help us.

Being pissed at me is not a reason to deny what is true.

There are 5 scum. There is no scum aligned 3p. Either A50 and superbowl are fakeclaiming scum or town. They cannot be an evil 3p. I am doubting scum.

We knew April's alignment and modifiers when they claimed but sat on that for obvious reasons.

[Titus]

I just want to stage a raid on all the private fucking PTs this game and raid them and make them all go public in this cluster fuck

This is the truth. You're paranoid of our trust and want to be in control. You aren't doubting any of the information we're saying. You're doubting our alignment because you can't control us. You need to realize we have a joint, common enemy and that's the army.

We don't reveal scum catching information because someone asks.

If you set aside your anger and passion, you'd realize scum must kill in the 3p claims eventually. Otherwise they'll get outnumbered fast. Think of us as town's shield.

[Titus]

I feel I am being more than grateful considering Titus’s response to me thinking about things was like “oh I am thinking the 4-5 is more practical” when IF Mastina is truth telling Titus let me sit in my own pool of misery trying to figure this out. So I am a wee (understatement) pissed and I want to know everything Mastina knows. If Mastina’s town aligned it shouldn’t be a problem and should help her April case and help us.

Being pissed at me is not a reason to deny what is true.

There are 5 scum. There is no scum aligned 3p. Either A50 and superbowl are fakeclaiming scum or town. They cannot be an evil 3p. I am doubting scum.

We knew April's alignment and modifiers when they claimed but sat on that for obvious reasons.

Oh honey. I am not denying that you’re claiming shit.

I am just not buying it.

Huge difference.

What modifiers are you saying April has? Iirc they said just motion detector.

April is Plusjoy. That's a typo.

[Titus]

@Superbowl9- It's admirable to try and reason with Mathblade but Math has no sense of understanding of keeping pants on when he wants to know it. If he feels out of control, the response is you better "drop pants" as he puts it.

@Math, We did neighborize a locktown. That's A50. We have three people who know our claim. That's three people who we realistically cannot vote for barring a setup where they become modconfirmed scum. You just aren't on the locktown list. With your ranting being greater than your scumhunting, you never will be.

[Titus]

VOTE: April

@Plusjoyed, Can you talk about your April read at least? Set aside their claim of motion detector.

[Titus]

@Math, He's town plus that requires all three of mastina/Nero/Me to be lying or scum with A50 and one other that fake claimed d1. Literally, they cannot be evil 3p. It's against my/mastina/Nero's role pm.

[Titus]

I have a midterm but yall gonna look borderline scummy stupid when we flip another scum. Please point to the conftown titus should have neighborized yesterday

Anyone in her locktown list.
Done.

Great. That's A50 and superbowl9 and one other.

[Titus]

Well Plusjoyed is now locktown too.

Pedit: Math. :/ Someday, you will learn the difference between me holding back for the benefit of town and just being a jerk.

Thank you for the vote though.

[Titus]

Fwiw, I think Math is only scum in an April!town universe. I can't see Math rage as a hard bus. I think Mathblade's town anyway but this is further evidence.

[Titus]

One question to the 3P gang.
If your second wincon is "close to impossible" as you put it. Why not just tell us what it is?

Because it requires a series of events that outs our entire wincon to explain. I will say this, no one event will ever create that scenario.

[Titus]

Mastina i would still like to hear a MM towncase as well

Me too.

[Titus]

@Mathblade, And your response when NorwegianboyEE believes us is that he was agency captured. We aren't going to appease you. We are going to play for town to win. You don't get to dictate our actions.

Second, none of us are backing off from being 3p. Setting aside whether we're good or evil, that leaves 5 group scum.

We aren't going to earn your trust. You have made that abundantly clear to the thread. We definitely are not today, since you are hinging your trust in us based on following your whims.

Let's just go after a common enemy.

[Titus]

@Math, mastina is utterly convinced April is scum. My VCA as April as scum. I disagree with her setup spec point but have my own independent read. mastina has her experience with April that I don't share (namely April has pulled this motion detector before). Yet, mastina is right about April pushing the confirmed not Army slots, looking for a chink in the armor.

If this causes you to unvote April, so be it. I am not one to overstate a case.

[Titus]

god you guys post a lot

mastina
Nero Cain
Almost50
superbowl9
Titus
NorwegianboyEE
Chemist1422

shellyc
Bell
April Ludgate
MathBlade
Morning Mage
Tayl0r Swift
jjh927
Pickaxe Pete
PlusJOYED
DiamondSentinel
Something_Smart
DrDolittle
TheGoldenParadox

so if i read correctly there's 4 scum in the bottom list?

Yes, but Plus should be at the top. We don't know if you're town but fypov, yes.

[Titus]

god you guys post a lot

mastina
Nero Cain
Almost50
superbowl9
Titus
NorwegianboyEE
Chemist1422

shellyc
Bell
April Ludgate
MathBlade
Morning Mage
Tayl0r Swift
jjh927
Pickaxe Pete
PlusJOYED
DiamondSentinel
Something_Smart
DrDolittle
TheGoldenParadox

so if i read correctly there's 4 scum in the bottom list?

Yes, but Plus should be at the top. We don't know if you're town but fypov, yes.

that's not ordered within tiers i was just double checking the mech stuff

i think plus is probably town here

Plus is town. No probably about it.

[Titus]

You going on tirades is not civil because it detracts from the ability of others to do anything and keep up. There were 7 pages when I woke up this morning full of you going back and forth with everyone else in the game. That's not cool.

Oh no. Math can’t play because he disagrees with Queens Titus and Mastina.

Fuck it I have work.

This is literally the only time I have until late tonight.

Excuse me for trying to make it worth it.

Because now Titus and Mastina will have around 12 hours of unfettered access except during my 30 minute lunch break.

You can still give scumreads and worth with us to hunt the Army even if people disagree with you.

There's a bell wagon you could hop on. You could start another wagon on an Army read. You can work with the gamestate.

[Titus]

The gamestate is your team is claiming a guilty on April.

If you and Mastina wish to rescind that guilty it changes the gamestate but a rescinded guilty isn’t just scumclaiming

So no there is literally no read I can push because reads can not override a guilty claim.

mastina and I disagree on the strength of the setup spec. I have an independent SR of April. It's not a guilty.

[Titus]

Screw it. I’ll play Math’s game because it’s a game I’ve been to interested in playing myself.

Both third parties, I want your wincons verbatim. I want to know where precisely y’all stand.

As you have heard from Superbowl and A50, you're not getting that. Their claim is they win with town and only then. We know that has a very high likelihood of being true (greater than 99%).

They know our wincon and know it's antitown to divulge.

[Titus]

The gamestate is your team is claiming a guilty on April.

If you and Mastina wish to rescind that guilty it changes the gamestate but a rescinded guilty isn’t just scumclaiming

So no there is literally no read I can push because reads can not override a guilty claim.

mastina and I disagree on the strength of the setup spec. I have an independent SR of April. It's not a guilty.

Mastina is claiming a guilty then.

You’re a package deal with Mastina per your claim.

Unless she rescinds her claim it’s a guilty.

She said she has info making April scum. That’s called a guilty. It’s not a read it’s a guilty.

That's a read, based off info.

A guilty is different.

[Titus]

The gamestate is your team is claiming a guilty on April.

If you and Mastina wish to rescind that guilty it changes the gamestate but a rescinded guilty isn’t just scumclaiming

So no there is literally no read I can push because reads can not override a guilty claim.

mastina and I disagree on the strength of the setup spec. I have an independent SR of April. It's not a guilty.

Mastina is claiming a guilty then.

You’re a package deal with Mastina per your claim.

Unless she rescinds her claim it’s a guilty.

She said she has info making April scum. That’s called a guilty. It’s not a read it’s a guilty.

That's a read, based off info.

A guilty is different.

Hahahahaha funny.

That’s like saying a cop getting a red on someone is not a guilty it’s a read based off info.

You won’t say what the info is, but say April is lock scum.

That’s called a guilty.

We have no action that dictates April as scum 100%. We don't have a cop guilty.

We just have info suggesting she is and are pushing it.

[Titus]

Okay then what’s the information so we can adequately decide for ourselves? If we can’t then we have to take Mastina’s word that it’s a confScum as she said and evaluate in it accordingly.

You either gotta give us something or we have to keep you accountable to your words since your 3P

You can decide for yourself based on the info we are willing to present when we present it.

I have heard the info. It's not making April confScum, so I am willing to discuss what I feel comfortable talking about right now. There's plenty of evidence to discuss the read.

You don't have to vote with us if you think there's a better Army target.

[Titus]

Consider me back pedaling on S_S due to recent posts on this page. I have no idea what the last ten pages contain and I am unlikely to read them today.

I am back pedaling there too.

[Titus]

So Pickaxe Pete Chemist April Taylor/TGP

That looks good to me.

[Titus]

Why these 5 titus? Just vca or reads too?

VCA plus reads.

[Titus]

Town or Town Aligned	Titus Plusjoyed Diamond Sentinel Nero Cain Morning Mage shellyc (if April scum) A50 Ban Hydras superbowl9 mastina Menalque NorweiganboyEE
Above Null	The Golden Paradox Bell Something_Smart Mathblade
Null	DrDolittle jjh927 shellyc (if April town)
Lean Scum	Tayl0rSwift
Scum	Pickaxe Pete Chemist April Ludgate

For the record, I haven't updated my VCA. This is my old VCA plus reads. I also expect one of my bottom four to be wrong and someone in my "Above Null" and lower to be scum.

[Titus]

what is the BTS army?

What are you talking about? Where did you see that?

[Titus]

Also, can you talk to me about my reads Tayl0rSwift?

[Titus]

i independently scum read Pickaxe Pete Chemist April Ludgate so I guess its maps to what I'm feeling?

Why do you SR them?

[Titus]

@Taylor,

I am open to someone in my nulls/above nulls being scum. I'm presuming by you not including Math that you townread them? I have Math as above null because his play reminds me of Steven Universe. There he was outside the main townblock and he threw a similar fit, demanding to know everything we knew. We wound up lynching him for it, in an otherwise flawless victory. There's always the chance Math is scum panicking or whiteknighting April, but I doubt both of these possibilities. The first I doubt because of Math actually voting April. If Math were scum panicking throwing out anything that sticks, he doesn't vote a partner here. He definitely doesn't vote a partner whose only contributions have been pushing on the 3ps. April flipping scum would hinder his progress immensely. Thus, I highly doubt scum!Math votes scum!April here. That leaves Math whiteknighting April. This possibility I can't rule out, and its the one that scares me the most. In the uber rare event that April flips town, Math will become insufferable for the rest of the game. That's regardless of their alignment. It will also be nigh on impossible to tell Scum!Math from Town!Math, as both would spam the thread. I don't like the whiteknight angle because Math can naturally be scumread for voting their townread much more so than mastina can for having a wrong opinion. In short, I think it's probable this is angry Town!Math from Steven's Universe.

As for Bell, I struggle with him. Bell lead a wagon on SS after I complained about him not being visible on any wagons. Most of what he's posted today has been good. I'm just missing the Wow! factor from Bell that I usually get when he's town. Of course maybe that Wow factor is because I was scum in the last game we played together.

SS gets to stay above null for his posting today. It's been logically sound and accurate, but it prevents us from confirming town. It would have been better if SS highlighted this flaw earlier or just merely claimed he'd play outside of the results.

TGP stays there due to the lack of scumpings in his play. I don't get much in the way of town pings either, but he has a presence and it doesn't seem demotivated. So tonally, he's town. That's weak so above null.

@Morning Mage, I slept on it and discussed it with the hoods and realized you were likely town. The reason might offend you but here goes.
As town, you tend to tunnel hard on townies frequently, especially ones who have a zone of influence equal or stronger than your own. You had no influence alone day 1. So you saw two people linked at the hip and naturally scumread them. So basically, you were playing the role of misguided town.

[Titus]

I also thought for a couple seconds they were claiming member of the scum army tbh.

Hey EE, care to talk reads with me?

[Titus]

I also thought for a couple seconds they were claiming member of the scum army tbh.

Hey EE, care to talk reads with me?

Anyone specific?

Pickaxe and Chemist

[Titus]

If you're deliberately playing to your scum meta as town here, that's your fault, not mine.

Just a question - why would that be a bad thing? Don’t you want to npt be easy to read as a player? Why would anyone keep consistent meta W/ both alignments unless they only hope to win games as town?

I think this is the first time ever someone said nice Titus is Town!Titus. Scum!Titus is by far the nicer one.

[Titus]

is april flipping scum? how confident are you?

95% confident
The made up sole read on Gamma I believe it's actually Chemist who posted that.
The fact April's disappeared
The fact April went after the 3ps so aggressively
The fact April was a non-entity on the wagons d1 minus the shelly wagon
The fact April tried to push a lynch on Shelly pre-"clear" without arguing there was a flaw in the clearing mechanism
The fact April allegedly motion detected me, while claiming to have me as town. Yet, she comes in supposing her motion detect is a guilty rather than scum visiting me. She investigated a townread over a scumread like mastina.
The fact April wanted a townread based on her detecting motion.
The fact April egged on the cultist bullshit.
The fact April crapped on my VCA but never puts forth any army reads of her own.
The fact mastina and I agree on this read.

The only concern I have is how easy it is.

[Titus]

I also thought for a couple seconds they were claiming member of the scum army tbh.

Hey EE, care to talk reads with me?

Anyone specific?

Pickaxe and Chemist

I townread Pickaxe Pete pretty strongly, as for Chemist1422 i townread them less but not really seeing them as all that scummy.

Can you explain how you TR them?

Who do you think is scum?

[Titus]

@Math, It's one thing to think the April exe is bad. You can engage my reasons for it. You can put forth your own execution.

What you cannot do is say whatever Titus does is bad. That's just toxic sibling rivalry and needs to stop.

[Titus]

@Math, It's not like I am completely without reservations on April. I forgot to mention Plusjoyed's claim of ongoing games as a reason to doubt April flipping scum. The more you holler rather than engage, the more I just want the day to be over and take my chances with the vig shooting me if I am wrong.

[Titus]

You explained why you can't put forth your own reads? Where?

[Titus]

You can suggest another execution because people told you she was exaggerating.

Plus, wouldn't you want to give reads anyway in case you're shot?

We can solve the rest of the game even if you think April is a foregone conclusion.

[Titus]

Alright, if you feel that April is a forgone conclusion and you can't discuss your reads, what's the point in posting?

[Titus]

Alright, if you feel that April is a forgone conclusion and you can't discuss your reads, what's the point in posting?

To convince people you’re scum siding/scum so they can see it tomorrow.
Titus+Mastina combo is a scum team of nightmares with your skills.

So I have to be three steps ahead of you if I want to win.

Because I think you’re scum siding 3P or just flat out scum.

So you can't discuss your reads, you can't stop the wagon, and your sole purpose in this thread today is to screech I am evil despite what you've been told repeatedly.

You claim you've given up trying to reach me, so you're going to spout I am evil. You can't have it both ways. Either your mission is to stop me, no matter what, or you can be trying to reach me.

The door's open if you ever want to talk rationally. I'm not going to push you on your reads that you can't push for "reasons" but I do expect there to be someone we can talk about.

[Titus]

Steven's Universe here we go again.

[Titus]

kill bell gang where you at

I don't see it. Talk to me.

[Titus]

like

I don't think "they are doing the same thing I am, therefore, they are scum for this reason" is ever a thought from a townie

That's not what he said though.

[Titus]

@Math This still boils down to...

There's a execution I disagree with, so I am going to take my ball and go home and yell at the people who want to play with me on the way out.

You actually undercut your argument that April is innocent with such theatrics.

@Superbowl9 That's Math. Math tunnels. A lot. He becomes convinced his scenario is right and all who disagree him are scum until proven otherwise.

[Titus]

Math is just kings army

Not sure if he is or not. I didn't care in Steven's Universe. I don't care now.

[Titus]

FL getting mad and throwing a fit kinda seems like something I've seen FL do b4 but my biggest hangup is that I was asking him to scumhunt and he more or less refused to do that.

There are just too many tantrums in this game.

First DS has his relatively minor blowup about not being able to counter Gamma.
Then Math has his tantrum.
Then April hers.

Can we stop throwing a fit and actually play the game?

[Titus]

There's 4 kings army. Let's find them together. I don't care where your ideas come from as long as they hunt army. We're a team of functional adults. Let's act like it.

[Titus]

naw, this game is frustrating for scum.

inb4

DS
math
april
????

scumteam

I don't think DS is scum. I know you and mastina favor it but I don't think scum!DS is that vocal that early against a scum lynch.

Math I don't think he's scum but don't care bc scumsiding.

April is probably scum.

[Titus]

TPG maybe

Pickaxe and Chemist imo

[Titus]

TPG maybe

Pickaxe and Chemist imo

This is literally execute all lurkers

It's not but scum have every incentive to lurk here and pray for implosion. Chemist has a strong negative reaction.

He posts a small but effective April case and then he throws her a softball so he can get off the wagon.

Pete's a VCA and lurker lynch.

[Titus]

VOTE: April

from a quick open of their ISO and ctrl+F of gamma i am now convinced

Gamma’s town

Only one way to find out!

I don’t need to find out, I have a soul read.

also, maybe April Ludgate as a hard Gamma defender. although im not sold on that.

boon/april has in the past very much hard defended his buddies.

This is true.

I’ve also been on record unable to read Gamma correctly well over he past year despite my old soul reads

Well, I’m town who just unfortunately defended the person who’s been yelling at me for “incorrectly reading them”.

This is just another incorrect read for me on Gamma.

this

also that pete read is probably just a perspective slip

VOTE: DDL

like

I don't think "they are doing the same thing I am, therefore, they are scum for this reason" is ever a thought from a townie

That's not what he said though.

oh i missed a word

UNVOTE: DDL

april i mostly have you as scum because you claimed to have a soulread on gamma being town

gamma was not town

what exactly gave you that read on gamma?

Why Chemist is scum to me

[Titus]

VOTE: April

from a quick open of their ISO and ctrl+F of gamma i am now convinced

Gamma’s town

Only one way to find out!

I don’t need to find out, I have a soul read.

also, maybe April Ludgate as a hard Gamma defender. although im not sold on that.

boon/april has in the past very much hard defended his buddies.

This is true.

I’ve also been on record unable to read Gamma correctly well over he past year despite my old soul reads

Well, I’m town who just unfortunately defended the person who’s been yelling at me for “incorrectly reading them”.

This is just another incorrect read for me on Gamma.

this

also that pete read is probably just a perspective slip

VOTE: DDL

like

I don't think "they are doing the same thing I am, therefore, they are scum for this reason" is ever a thought from a townie

That's not what he said though.

oh i missed a word

UNVOTE: DDL

april i mostly have you as scum because you claimed to have a soulread on gamma being town

gamma was not town

what exactly gave you that read on gamma?

Why Chemist is scum to me

@Titus I don’t get it. Explain it like I am 5. It looks like you’re starting from April scum and assuming April is scum then these posts are bad versus using thought.

It's scummy either way.

Chemist placed a suspicious, overexplaining good case vote on April as the wagon gets steam. He unvotes based on a stupid misread allegedly and then gives April a softball question rather than one to sort her.

That's not a town transition.

[Titus]

naw, this game is frustrating for scum.

inb4

DS
math
april
????

scumteam

I don't think DS is scum. I know you and mastina favor it but I don't think scum!DS is that vocal that early against a scum lynch.

Math I don't think he's scum but don't care bc scumsiding.

April is probably scum.

Ignore this in context to the game, but have I noted how scary it is how much you think you have me nailed down despite me not having played in almost 3 years?

You haven't changed much, so I see no reason not to judge you the same way.

Also, can you link me to your question? If it's simple, I will answer it and hit the road. Otherwise, I'll answer tomorrow.

[Titus]

@Titus.

Those are filled with adjectives showing your bias.

You need to actually explain.

You’re starting from Chemist has to be scum here’s why.

You sound like a boxed in scum.

I am explaining a scumread. Of course I am going to start from the position they're scum when asked to explain.

Do you TR Chemist? If so, why? ELI5.

[Titus]

Ok. I'll give some quick nuggets DS.

I agree on Chemist.
Your observations of Pickaxe Pete are correct. I draw the conclusion that Pickaxe Pete was bussing. Ymmv.
SS I am less certain of being scum based on how they played the shellyc situation.
Mathblade - I agree.
April is Boonskiies or was.
DDL feels particularly town. Different from my last game where we were partners. Manatee's mafia. Large normal. It could be just that I am protown though so.
MM- I agree but I don't think we go jettisoning VI just because VI. We need all the town we can get. Occasionally VIs are right. If he's not being annoying, he can stick around.

[Titus]

I agree with MathBlade. No massclaim.

[Titus]

Do you guys want me to hammer?

Might as well. I want to get to night phase with another scum down.

[Titus]

Oh well. It should be a scumflip.

[Titus]

Oh well. It should be a scumflip.

Hopefully.

Yes. If it's not, I'll pray to get vigged because I'll hear no end of it from Math.

[Titus]

@Math, When this flips scum, our only requests are that you hunt non3pclaimed Army and that you limit yourself to thirty posts a day, unless wagoned.

[Titus]

I feel like today is a blessing to helping sort MathBlade. There's going to be no 3p execution and he'll have to give reads on the pool. If he doesn't, off with his head.

I disagree with Nero on the reads. I would lynch Pere first, then jjh927 then DDL.

mastina was wrong. It happens.

VOTE: NorwegianboyEE

Spoiler: Math Message

Dear Mathblade,

The six of us have been talking remotely about you and what to do about you. The general consensus is that we don't know if you're scum, but we have no problem executing you. The only exceptions are the one or two people who flat out scumread you.

That being said, as of now, you are not the main priority for an execution. We really need to hit scum today. Another lynch fueled partially by personal biases hitting town helps no one.

Therefore, we decided to write you a note to tell you what you can do to improve the general health of the game, increase your chance of survival and ultimately increase your influence in future games. This boils down to three things: limiting your post volume, listening more to others, and actually hunting army instead of just strictly opposing us.

The first two items go hand in hand. Responding to everything makes it much harder to respond to what needed to be responded to. For instance, shelly posted a content wall that completely missed her need to respond to the question about if she was visited. This means town shelly can't keep up with the developments or scum shelly needed cover to get her response together. There's no way to know if the response is scummy. Running most gambits is impossible at the rate the game goes. To that end, I suggest you limit yourself to thirty posts a real life day.

This limitation also hopefully helps you listen more. Even if you think we're a massive scum cabal, direct, spammy opposition doesn't help. It demotivates people from changing their minds on a lynch. Maybe someone stands up to mastina if we all weren't so exhausted from dealing/reading your posts repeating the same thing. Instead, documenting our allegedly evil ways in a post per day might get more interaction.

The last thing you need to do is show you're hunting army outside of us. We've tried to engage you on this. You have said you can't discuss your reads based on "reasons". This feels more spiteful than actually scummy. We're giving you a chance to prove that right and that you have reads. Titus found it icky that you defended chemist without a townread there. We look forward to actually discussing reads with you, in a less spammy manner. That hopefully will let us sort each other.

When you take the time to listen rather than talk, objectives and then alignment get revealed.

Good luck,

The group of 6

[Titus]

HURT: Pickaxe Pete

[Titus]

We neighborized NorwegianboyEE.

We're also responsible for the A50 being king today. I only mention it because our ability blocks all kills on the target and we're missing a kill.

[Titus]

VOTE: norwee

HURT: ddl

Back to bed for now.

This is still scum.

Don't like the DDL consensus but maybe scum are bussing.

[Titus]

As an unwilling passenger in this 7 player power-bloc, I'll just throw this out there:

What if the Titus-faction is a cult?

We discussed this yesterday and the mod said no cults.

[Titus]

We neighborized NorwegianboyEE.

We're also responsible for the A50 being king today. I only mention it because our ability blocks all kills on the target and we're missing a kill.

Yes please...continue to tell scum how protectives work.
When we absolutely do not have the numbers to spare to scum double kills.

Titus you are either brain dead,scum siding, or just not planning ahead.

Wtf is going on in that hood?

I swear y’all are attempting to remove more pants unprompted because “we have 6 masons nothing can go wrong”

It doesn’t matter how many people are townfirm to you if the tanks on E, credit cards maxed, and no damn money in the bank.

Please fucking stop.

The protection is in the past.

I don't buy this readwall helps scum crap.

[Titus]

But your hood says we don’t have a vig or at least implied it. I am hoping we have a vig. If we don’t have a vig then every scumread has to go.

On the contrary, we think the second kill must be a vig. No serial killers allowed.

Town players become demotivated because what they say doesn’t matter

Not true. Yellibg falsehoods while not hunting scum gets you ignored.

[Titus]

I would like to just state that for whatever reason my worthless gut says Titus is scum.
Someone said she was confirmed masons with another player or two. could you guys reiterate there that this is the case and that Titus is confirmed town so I don't have to brain space case myself.

Yes. mastina, Nero and I are confirmed aligned together.
Almost50 superbowl9 and ? are confirmed aligned together.
Our information makes it nigh on impossible for them to be scum. (There is a moonlogic chance but it's not worth discussing it's that bad.)
They've seen our wincon because we trust them.
Same with Norway who is conftown to us.

[Titus]

Tbh, I figured you were the vig. I am supposing A50 ate the second shot.

[Titus]

It could just be a one shot vig though.

[Titus]

Math, talk to me about DDL, jjh, and Pete? Why is DDL the scummiest?

[Titus]

There is no SK Math.

If you don't think wagoning any of them is useful, who would you wagon outside the council of 6? Why?

How do you feel about the consensus largely being on DDL?

[Titus]

Cool TGP is still town.

[Titus]

SS, who is scum in the trifecta that has known scum in it? Why? Do you feel the others are town? How do you feel about the DDL consensus?

[Titus]

are you guys sure you should be hiding your win conditions so that we can’t veto those so you’re forced to play towards the town’s win conditions.

Can’t you guys just come down and be town with the rest of the town rather than the cool secret council with the hoods and the secret meetings.

Revealing those to scum is antitown. We invite conftown so they can vouch. We can't reveal to all town.

[Titus]

I still think it's Pete. Too much DDL consensus.

[Titus]

Is your full wincon posted by the mod in the PT?

In our 3p pt, not the neighborhood. We have to paraphrase like everyone else.

[Titus]

Ooh I am an Illithid. Math we're purple. You like purple right? Join us.

[Titus]

Ooh I am an Illithid. Math we're purple. You like purple right? Join us.

See you’re an illithid and I am a lowly human.

The only way I can join is if you invite me.

V/LA just got called to do overtime possibly it’s tbd

So my posting may be sporadic.

Army brains poison us. We have to ensure you're not Army. Since you can't discuss reads, you're likely waiting on a modclear, if it happens.

[Titus]

Instead you're just doing the small brained play on shoving me down. Like those tho are saying 3p is town and should never be executing are like communist apologists.

What are your reads?

[Titus]

Superbowl9, I am confused.

[Titus]

Can we please lynch Pickaxe? I know I am alone but this is not scum!DDL.

[Titus]

I'll be popping in and out but Saturday is my DnD day.

[Titus]

norwee is conf not army, but he's not conftown. don't confuse the two.

Anyone confirmed not!Army = town.

[Titus]

Math, can you do a chart with preferred lynches of everyone using the table code? I'd want to do some cross referencing in the hood.

Name Preferred Lynch
Titus. Pickaxe Pete

[Titus]

DrD, reads list?

[Titus]

i will note how bad Pete's pop in was tonight but I want to see more from him.

When you check your email in the middle of the night and see you're on the chopping block you get a defensive vote in asap. What's bad about that?

What are your reads?

[Titus]

VOTE: norwee

HURT: ddl

Back to bed for now.

This is still scum.

Don't like the DDL consensus but maybe scum are bussing.

What differentiates me from DDL and jjh that you're coming after me>
?

VCA. Why me = fry me.

Your reads.

[Titus]

Alright. I have a request to slow the rate of posting so I can data dive.

@Pete, Do you prefer a DDL or jjh lynch today? Outside of the pool, who is your lynch?

[Titus]

Alright. Time to get to work on my cross-reference table. See you in a few hours.

[Titus]

if you're shooting outside of the Mod's trio, I'd go Shelly or Taylor.

You know that readlist I provided you last night? FORGET ABOUT IT.

My reads are so rapidly changing right now they literally change every other page.

Right now I'd say all 4 scum are in the trio the mod listed + Chemist + Diamond, with an outside chance of Bell/Taylor being Scum (that would mean I am wrong on one of the other 5). I find it highly unlikely the mod provides an all-Scum pool for me to execute from (even if it was just a "recommendation"), so I'm thinking Chemist+Diamond are more likely to flip Scum than any of the other 3 (if that makes any sense to you).

Furthermore, the NK analysis S_S pointed out I think points to at least one of DS/jjh being Scum. It was a kill made to prevent something on the future, and "casual Scum" don't make those kinds of kills.

BUT, I could also see it as being "a kill on a confirmed!Townie" if Scum indeed had 2 kills and Norwee was saved by virtue of being the new recruit of the hood, as this means they went for both confirmed Townies on N2, which makes a lot of sense.

IMPORTANT: If anyone has questions, exclamations, elaborations, .. etc. PLEASE DON'T.

If such person is a member of the league of 7 they can ask in the respective PT, but not in the open. THANK YOU.

Saw this in my readthrough... the NKA is garbage. SS is scum.

[Titus]

y TPG instead of DS or Chemist?

Good question.

Also, I so SR Pickaxe, but why would he be early on Gamma but not at all on April? This is the main reason I'm second guessing myself on him.

Pickaxe Pete didn't post at all/very much during the April wagon. He didn't have an opportunity.

[Titus]

DDL vs Pete is just a case of who seems to be playing. Ddl only memorable post for me is about the BTS army. Pete I remember a post here or there.

Jjh is SK or scum because of play and ascetic claim. I disagree with Mastina’s setup spec again. Shocking I know. I lean SK simply because town Vig is too much power and being able to track JJH to a kill would then be either such a boon/bust to be ridiculous.

If I had a three way nuke I wouldn’t cry about them dying. I just don’t think wagoning any of them gives anything since their entire play is lurker hell.

Not posting every 8 hours is lurking. Figured that out end of Day 1.

You just said a whole lot of jjh is scummy for reasons but didn't say anything about ddl or me. Why should ddl or I be wagoned for lurking

if we're town

and jjh is scummy?

Ahem.

[Titus]

the NKA is garbage.

It's garbage to suggest that scum killed a player with a power role to prevent him from using his power?

The NKA regarding who made such a kill. Scum making such a kill isn't out of the ordinary. Plus is more likely to be protected on the night he gives out the power, if town even has a doctor.

[Titus]

Player Name	Execution Preference
shellyc	DDL>Pete>jjh
Chemist1422
Bell	DDL (doesn't disagree - yucky)
mastina	DDL
Nero Cain	DDL (but prefers outside)
MathBlade	DDL
Morning Mage	DDL, or outside mod's trio shelly or taylor
Almost50
superbowl9	jjh
Tayl0r Swift	DDL
jjh927	not DDL so Pete by PoE
Titus	Pickaxe Pete
NorwegianboyEE	DDL
Pickaxe Pete	DDL until "latest stunt by jjh"
DiamondSentinel
Something_Smart	Not jjh [JJH is town, and SS is scum]
DrDolittle	Pete?
TheGoldenParadox

[Titus]

I'm starting to see where Taylor gets there's scum in my nulls, it's just not DDL.

I feel A50 should nuke SS imo.

[Titus]

Give me a readslist that convinces me otherwise SS.

Pedit: Thank you Math. I honestly skimmed over all the posts in the middle that happened Saturday night.

[Titus]

I'm starting to see where Taylor gets there's scum in my nulls, it's just not DDL.

I feel A50 should nuke SS imo.

Why elim outside the confscum group??

Because I feel DDL is a misexecute and if we're taking a shot, I'd rather hit scum. So Pickaxe Pete or SS.

Then we have Chemist as scum too.

I'm just short one last one and I'm thinking it might be Bell.

[Titus]

Shooting outside the confscum group frankly gives DDL more time to obvtown.

[Titus]

Because I feel DDL is a misexecute and if we're taking a shot, I'd rather hit scum. So Pickaxe Pete or SS.

I'd rather hit scum so let's shoot outside confscum?? If DDL is town then we have a guaranteed 1/2 scum!

So then we should execute Pickaxe but based on the popularity of DDL, I don't feel that's happening.

So your position is I should accept the misexecute?

[Titus]

@superbowl @TGP
Shooting inside the group makes more sense if you feel there's a decent chance of being wrong I guess. You're accurate there and if Almost50 isn't taking a hero shot, that can't be held against us. Mathematically, it makes more sense to shoot outside the group, if we feel confident outside rather than inside.

Inside right now we have 1/3 or 33 percent odds of hitting correctly.
Outside we have 3/ (18-6-3) or 3/9 or also 33 percent odds of hitting correctly. Plus, I have more townreads in the outer group.

This doesn't factor in reads.

If we factor in likely group reads, I feel we have a zero percent chance if DDL or jjh is selected.
Thus we go to 50/50 to the group collective.
And then still, 3/9 in the outside the collective.

If we're wrong on shooting SS (or just outside the group)...
Then we get 1/3
3/8

So if we're going to be wrong, then shooting within the group is better.

[Titus]

Player Name	Execution Preference
shellyc	DDL>Pete>jjh
Chemist1422
Bell	DDL (doesn't disagree - yucky)
mastina	DDL
Nero Cain	DDL (but prefers outside)
MathBlade	Pete
Morning Mage	DDL, or outside mod's trio shelly or taylor
Almost50	Blank for good reason
superbowl9	jjh
Tayl0r Swift	DDL
jjh927	not DDL so Pete by PoE
Titus	Pickaxe Pete
NorwegianboyEE	DDL
Pickaxe Pete	DDL until "latest stunt by jjh"
DiamondSentinel
Something_Smart	Not jjh [JJH is town, and SS is scum]
DrDolittle	Pete?
TheGoldenParadox

[/quote]

Is there a lag on MS for anyone else or is it my internet?

[Titus]

I stand corrected. I think I have said my piece.

Pickaxe Chemist SS Bell.

Unless anyone has something specific to discuss with me, I am willing to wait on A50.

[Titus]

Math, I would love to see your VCA supposing the council of 7 are all townsiding.

[Titus]

@Mathblade,

That's the thing about conftown working in concert with more information. We can't take the chance of sharing our information (particularly our wincon), with anyone who isn't scum. So when you have one group that has more information than another, it's going to feel a bit like chess pieces. There's not much to be done. You and DS naturally rebel in such situations. Well scum!DS wouldn't. So there's always going to be conflict. It's what happened in that one game where Cerb and I were conftown and we misexecuted you due to your resistance.

I understand if this means our 3p needs to be shot, but it is what it is. If you become confirmed not!Army, I would advocate letting you know everything.

[Titus]

@SS What decision do you not understand? It looks like you’re just kissing up to Math.

@Math - Norway confirms us as not Army. A50 confirms us as not Army. What more "outside" perspective do you need to confirm us as not Army?

Our team has mod confirmed information Army has 5 members and they are the only scum. New data won't change mod confirmation. That is unless you're referring to something else.

The only town objecting are you and DS. You're buddyable and DS was buddied by scum D1. It's in the VCA too.

We can't break a rebellion that's in your DNA because you can't accept some people knowing more than you.

[Titus]

@Math, I am cooperating. There's only so far we can "cooperate". We're never going to be persuaded on arguments we know to be false.

You want to be heard on arguments we know to be false.
You want to feel like your arguments on things we know to be false have a chance.
We literally cannot give you that chance without being antitown.

You want to feel heard on mastina scum by the council of 7.
The council knows that to be false.

Because of this, you dig your heels in deeper because we won't cooperate and explain.

There's a difference between not trusting our claims and tossing our reads out because of us townreading each other. Nero and I strongly disagree with our reads on you. That's ok. We're both town.

You do nothing to persuade Nero that you're town by insisting we must cooperate, when we've done literally all we can. I have depants where I could (even to when I arguably shouldn't regarding the kingmaker protecting A50).

I'd love to discuss my SS read with you. It has nothing to do with the 3p situation (minus them buddying you).

[Titus]

Town	Titus Diamond Sentinel Nero Cain shellyc A50 Superbowl9 Morning Mage mastina NorwegianboyEE
Above Null	The Golden Paradox Mathblade
Null	DrDolittle jjh927
Lean Scum	Bell Something Smart
Scum	Pickaxe Pete Chemist1422

Legend: Green = Will never execute
Blue = Strong mod suggestion they are town, become conftown if 3 scum get flipped, not entertaining executions

[Titus]

Titus, I'm referring to this:

That's the thing about conftown working in concert with more information. We can't take the chance of sharing our information (particularly our wincon), with anyone who isn't scum. So when you have one group that has more information than another, it's going to feel a bit like chess pieces. There's not much to be done. You and DS naturally rebel in such situations. Well scum!DS wouldn't. So there's always going to be conflict. It's what happened in that one game where Cerb and I were conftown and we misexecuted you due to your resistance.

You guys did the chess thing with the April execution. I predicted that the reasons were dumb, and when they were revealed today, lo and behold they were in fact dumb. You posting this makes me think that you're probably going to try the chess thing again, because you have more secret information that you don't want scum to know. Is that accurate?

Any move we make will be considered a chess move. That's my point. Scum!you can make that argument and town!math and DS will eat it up.

I doubt A50 goes against the math though.

[Titus]

Town	Titus Diamond Sentinel Nero Cain shellyc A50 Superbowl9 Morning Mage mastina NorwegianboyEE
Above Null	The Golden Paradox Mathblade
Null	DrDolittle jjh927
Lean Scum	Bell Something Smart
Scum	Pickaxe Pete Chemist1422

Legend: Green = Will never execute
Blue = Strong mod suggestion they are town, become conftown if 3 scum get flipped, not entertaining executions

DrD should be above null.

[Titus]

Nero, let's talk in the hood about not!Math. I want a sounding board on my SS read and no one else is on.

[Titus]

I swear you three are denser than diamond sometimes.

Just move on please.

You agree Diamond can be dense? That he was wrong buddied town?

[Titus]

@Math, Do you agree with me on DS though anyway?

[Titus]

@Math, Do you agree with me on DS though anyway?

DS I am 50/50 on. I can make an argument either way.

Can we cooperate and talk about it? Nero and I disagree and maybe you talking about your read can help Nero see you're town.

I feel DS is pretty VCA + personality clear from D1.

Nero SRs DS based on his defensiveness and proscum behaviors.

[Titus]

@Math, Do you agree with me on DS though anyway?

DS I am 50/50 on. I can make an argument either way.

Can we cooperate and talk about it? Nero and I disagree and maybe you talking about your read can help Nero see you're town.

I feel DS is pretty VCA + personality clear from D1.

Nero SRs DS based on his defensiveness and proscum behaviors.

Proscum? Enlighten me

Pushing anyone but gamma, shading the council getting defensive when pushed.

I view those things as a frustrated town!DS who is out of control of the game.

Can you discuss my Pickaxe Pete, Bell, SS, Chemist solve with me?

[Titus]

Alliance is good.

[Titus]

Why do you people leave just as I try to prove you town?

[Titus]

Why are you open to them as a pairing? Do you SR each separately?

What are your reads on SS/Chemist?

[Titus]

I'm starting to see where Taylor gets there's scum in my nulls, it's just not DDL.

I feel A50 should nuke SS imo.

Why elim outside the confscum group??

because Titus wants to flip SS because SS has the highest propensity to challenge her. It's painfully obvious

That would be Math.

[Titus]

I'm starting to see where Taylor gets there's scum in my nulls, it's just not DDL.

I feel A50 should nuke SS imo.

Why elim outside the confscum group??

because Titus wants to flip SS because SS has the highest propensity to challenge her. It's painfully obvious

That would be Math.

nah math has backed down a lot. you gonna tell A50 to do Bell?

No. I don't feel as confident on Bell but I got shown the error of lynching outside the three anyway.

Math has also backed down because I reached out to him.

[Titus]

Battle Mage, can we not do this thing where you oppose everything because it comes out of my mouth? It gets old. Can we rationally discuss reads?

[Titus]

like Math has this "oh I'm hardheaded, none of this scummy just me being hardheaded"

scum HAVE to break the hood up. They know they can't hunt outside of the hood b/c any lynches outside of the hood just result in them being POEd.

i disagree. it makes little sense for them to try (and that's evidenced by the fact like 2 people are actually doing it, which wouldnt be enough for your 4 person team). and mathematically, it doesn't stack up either.

Pickaxe Pete and Chemist are lurkers. They can't try to do anything.

[Titus]

Battle Mage, can we not do this thing where you oppose everything because it comes out of my mouth? It gets old. Can we rationally discuss reads?

i literally just agreed with your read on Bell, to try and get some consensus from you, and you immediately shot it down.

I got shot down, and rightfully so on the lynch outside the three pairing today. Glad we agree on Bell scum though. If my hood doesn't agree on SS after we find scum in the three, we can go for Bell.

[Titus]

but you're right it's boring as fuck. i'd rather be destined-for-failure-scum than an impotent conftown who can't do anything.

Fwiw, I sometimes feel like an impotent conftown. I feel like I have the answers and am fighting through constant noise of people shouting "What if there's an SK? A cult? What if A50 and superbowl9 lied d1? What if Norway is an SK?"

Where is your readwall?

Pedit: Then be disappointed. I have a bad thing of scumreading masons. So sorry.

[Titus]

ok hi what's going on

i'm pretty much lurking out this day phase until i get a handle on what's going on because A Lot has been happening

Vote Norway using vote tags for BP
A 50 decides the execution.

Scum must be in DDL Pickaxe and jjh. So give reads there.

[Titus]

nothing wrong with scumreading, but constantly saying im a shit player is uncool

Sorry you took what I said that way. You, Math and DS all have a history of early tunnels that tend to be wrong. Most early tunnels are. That leaves you prone to scum buddying. That doesn't mean you suck as a player. It's a weakness to overcome.

[Titus]

ok hi what's going on

i'm pretty much lurking out this day phase until i get a handle on what's going on because A Lot has been happening

Vote Norway using vote tags for BP
A 50 decides the execution.

Scum must be in DDL Pickaxe and jjh. So give reads there.

i saw the mech stuff

is there any other discussion going on that i should weigh in on?

Start with the group of three. Then come back.

Pedit: Well I didn't scumread you once I knew you were a mason. Masons usually end up in my scumreads prereveal.

[Titus]

nothing wrong with scumreading, but constantly saying im a shit player is uncool

Sorry you took what I said that way. You, Math and DS all have a history of early tunnels that tend to be wrong. Most early tunnels are. That leaves you prone to scum buddying. That doesn't mean you suck as a player. It's a weakness to overcome.

Titus, come on. You ragged on me for tunnelling town, when you were doing the exact same thing. A bit of self-awareness and humility wouldn't go amiss...

It's not true this game, but it's a flaw I have to a weaker extent. That's why I can usually see it in others and empathise.

That's why I am trying to protect Math and especially DS from Nero despite them going hard against us.

[Titus]

I am now hard skimming because it's the same set of players who are arguing between them. LET THE LURKERS BE EXPOSED. Direct questions at the low posters and pressure them to talk more.

Let me get my shit solved with BM so we can work together please.

[Titus]

nothing wrong with scumreading, but constantly saying im a shit player is uncool

Sorry you took what I said that way. You, Math and DS all have a history of early tunnels that tend to be wrong. Most early tunnels are. That leaves you prone to scum buddying. That doesn't mean you suck as a player. It's a weakness to overcome.

Titus, come on. You ragged on me for tunnelling town, when you were doing the exact same thing. A bit of self-awareness and humility wouldn't go amiss...

It's not true this game.

unbelievable

So Gamma was town?

[Titus]

@BM, I already did apologize for you and said you were blameless. I am also am defending the players with our flaws. Not really sure much more self-awareness you're expecting.

But if that's all I can get for now is a compromise scumread on Bell. I'll take it. Maybe you'll see things my way on Pickaxe and SS and Chemist when DDL flips town.

*deliberately goes to lurking*.

[Titus]

idk

I asked schadd for a VC.

[Titus]

I am of the opinion that whomever A50 chooses to execute that we should execute DDL tomorrow. He's got too much baggage and he's just not worth risking the game over.

I'm willing to fight for my scumreads, but I have to realize, for the health of the thread, when I have lost that battle.

[Titus]

the correct play is for the day to go on and we keep talking and hunting but part of me is rdy for him to just eliminate someone.

There comes a point where the day just ends organically and more talking hurts town.

Once we get the remaining claims, the day will hit that point. So we should keep our talks to a minimum (which is why I didn't discuss my Chemist claim thoughts in public).

[Titus]

the correct play is for the day to go on and we keep talking and hunting but part of me is rdy for him to just eliminate someone.

There comes a point where the day just ends organically and more talking hurts town.

Once we get the remaining claims, the day will hit that point. So we should keep our talks to a minimum (which is why I didn't discuss my Chemist claim thoughts in public).

Uhoh I agree with the Titus hood.

Quick someone scumread me please? *puppy dog eyes*

I don't trust you fwiw.

[Titus]

ok well hmmm. im VT. im not sure why A50 suspects me, beyond being in PoE.

Ewwww

Actually, that's not ew.

I'd expect scum to fake a PR here.

[Titus]

April Ludgate (11): mastina, NorwegianboyEE, shellyc, superbowl9, Titus, MathBlade, TheGoldenParadox, Tayl0r Swift, April Ludgate, Nero Cain, Almost50

Here there's at least two scum in this. If you don't want to vote in your going squad vote shellyc

I actually think there may be zero scum in this and that scum thought town would turn on itself if they avoided it.

[Titus]

Deliberate prod dodge

[Titus]

I'm going to be distracted across all games. Landlord just gave me 30 days notice.