Yggdrasil - Stratum FINAL -

[Ircher]

Oh there's already 20 pages... I thought the game had just begun...

I will spend some time catching up tomorrow, but as long as marathon weekend is active, I'm not going to be very active here. If anyone wants to give a summary, feel free to do so.

[Ircher]

VOTE: No Fade for now.
I'll change it when I actually read the thread.

[Ircher]

Because I didn't want to unvote but I also want my vote to reflect the fact that I'm not the same as jjh.

[Ircher]

VOTE: LLD based off the first two pages.

Chara and Farkran have also attracted my attention.

[Ircher]

Because I didn't want to unvote but I also want my vote to reflect the fact that I'm not the same as jjh.

I fundamentally don't understand this so I'm going to poke at it a little more.

1) Why didn't you want to unvote?

2) Why are you concerned with being seen as the same as the person you replaced?

1) I didn't want to unvote.
2) It's not so much a concern as clarity. If I kept my vote where it was, people are naturally going to assume that my read on the slot is similar to my predecessor's read.

VOTE: LLD based off the first two pages.

Chara and Farkran have also attracted my attention.

Oh, how?

For LLD, it's mainly 41. The game just started and yet she is already complaining about posting levels. I also don't buy the day vig soft.

For Chara, I think it changed votes too fast and too early, and I didn't like its phrasing in 44 when claiming not miller. I also feel that's just an unnecessary claim to make.

For Farkran, I find 45 a bit boastful and irrelevant to the game at hand. If anything, it seems almost manipulative to me.

[Ircher]

So is Ircher on page 2 or 35?

Come on, you've played with me before. Aside from the two Versus games, you should know that I keep tabs on the current page in addition to catching up. In this particular case, I searched my username to see if there was anything worth addressing.

The answer is I'm both on page 2 and the current page. Well, more like page 3 since I read the bottom of page 2.

Day vig soft?

?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

The fuck are you smoking

Yes, how else are you planning to kill the top poster?

If you think I need a dayvig to kill people in mafia you are really underestimating me.

Literally all I said was if I came back to the game and it was unreadabke in post count, I would kill the highest hyperposter.

Like as in with votes you goon.

Are you claiming King then? Where are you going to get the other votes? People rarely policy fade nowadays.

[Ircher]

It's an easy entry for scum to make and has the bonus of actually being bad for town in that in general more discussion equals more potential signal even at the cost of more noise.

This is actually false. It's not the amount of signal that matters, it's the

ratio

of signal to noise that matters. That's not to say absolute amount of signal doesn't matter, but as the number of posts increase, the marginal benefit of even more posts slowly decreases over time. Eventually, it becomes so minuscule that it is either not worth it or actually harmful to the direction of the game.

(That said, I don't disagree with your vote and read on LLD here.)

Legitimately, I think we should leave LLD to be solved by scum. There's likely a SK which means she's probably not going to endgame and even if she is scum getting that lim is going to be a gigantic PITA. If we just assume she's town that should save me a lot of effort.

What kind of attitude of this? I don't think we should be giving anyone a free D1 pass.

This wasn't a D1 strategy. This is a until we flip a third party strategy.

This is even worse! Why are you so sure scum will kill LLD, especially if she is scum?

I have two by now-
Shining, sparkling shows of town
The ball’s in your court.

Let me guess... You have to post in Haikus all game as a post restriction? Or is this a self-imposed one for fun?
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Page 4 is almost pure fluff...
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Not to be all LAMIST but solve me, don't be apathetic about it. Look into the why of my posts.

You seem quite defensive for how early in the game it is (as of when you made this post).

oh also can hydras try to sign off with which head makes the post? That would be helpful for me, a person who really doesn't work well with reading hydras.

Wait which slots are hydras? ...Oh morph and White Fire. I should read more carefully.

Would I scum read some random person with a join date of yesterday for stating it? Possibly.

Correct me if I am wrong, but if this is the case, why are you going after Shea so aggressively for his read. Early game reads don't have to be air-tight; on the contrary, even minor quibbles are valid reasons for votes.

but "why" did shea make it? is it perhaps because he's annoyed he can't get the towncred for the towny-shea posting? hm hm hm? it's okay though, i understand. i do the same thing as scum.

Redacted.

Odds are in my favor ur town. U get scumread too often in games and i liked ur response.
Plus i think it would be amusing to see if i can get u paranoid.

Most of this is weak reasoning, but I actually think this comes from town more often than scum.

Hot take: Chara is scum.

Good take.

At bottom of 124. Will try to read another 5 or so pages tomorrow.

[Ircher]

VOTE: notscience
That's not a Haiku.

[Ircher]

The answer is I'm both on page 2 and the current page. Well, more like page 3 since I read the bottom of page 2.

For everyone who has appeared to miss me saying this. Now, I'm on the bottom of page 5 and the current page simultaneously. It's not rocket science people.

[Ircher]

At bottom of 124. Will try to read another 5 or so pages tomorrow.

absolutely wild way to play this game. you'll be playing in the present two weeks after the game is over.

The pace is slow rn because of marathon weekend. I'll pick up the pace when that ends.

[Ircher]

Anyways. I have a pretty questionable innate action, and even more questionably use SP skill.

Why did you go ahead and claim this? What purpose did you expect this to serve?

wow, is there a reason you have for just outing Dragons HP like that?

This reaction feels a bit overblown to me.

If anyone wants to suggest the best uses for my abilities, I'm all ears.

Your SP one honestly sounds like a waste to use. Your other one is probably useful when we have a better idea pf the full setup. We can use it to confirm whether actions went through where we expected and that kind of thing.

do i have to pull out the ol' "don't claim unprompted in the closed theme" bat again? it's a little dusty but i will.

It seems a pretty typical thing for Toogeloo to do. This is like the third time I've seen them do it in recent times.

Besides, Toogeloo is probably town.

For the claim or for a different reason. At this point, I'm leaning towards early game claims are NAI for Toogeloo.

Shea, I know you were not in it, but something INCREDIBLY similar to this was used to clear LLD in FGO mafia (I was the mod) where all of town had a thing, but didn't know that the others had the thing, and somebody stepped forward confident that THE THING gave them ultimate cosmic duty to get an upgrade/shiny.

I feel this is incredible circumstantial and not at all a reliable tell for alignment.

If we do some mass claim nonsense to try to break the game it will be an insult to unwnd and unfun.

I agree with this as well in tandem with my above comment. Large themes are made by experienced moderators and are required to have experienced reviewers. It's very unlikely we will break a setup by a single role claim, regardless of what info may be part of that claim.

It's amazing what the power of thinking about another player's mindset and projecting a "town toog model" can do, isn't it?

~Neuter

Yes, it's amazing the depth of bias that can lead to.

it's just a very towny action thanks to the lack of info that appeared to be motivating it.

Calling it "very townie" is a bit of a stretch. Somewhat town-motivated? Sure (though debatable coming from Toogeloo as I mentioned earlier--they seem to have a habit of claiming early which dilutes its value), but this claim doesn't change much at all and has very little value to the game as a whole.

Guilloitina though-
Very off from xenoblade
Could he be town here?

You have this read from like two posts? Seems a bit early to be jumping to conclusions.

If you are gonna read me based off one game where i randed scum and left because i didnt have the time to read the volume of spam fuckery in that game, im gonna deathtunnel you in this game.

I honestly want to townbin Guillotina between his frustration level and my impression of the notscience slot en. That being said, I am pretty sure Guillotina is aggressive as both alignments, and it's probably too early to townbin them.

At bottom of page 10.
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Do you have a serious reason for voting notsci?

I'm going to decline to answer.

Redacted.

?

It means I was going to say something, but decided not to. Replacing it with redacted is generally easier than deleting the quote.

When you compare to
Ircher’s jumping end to start
Which reads fake as fuck

What reads fake about it? You seem to both expect me to be fully caught up and in the present, yet at the same time, you have an issue with my approach that attempts to balance catch up with current events. I don't have infinite time, and I'm not reading 30 pages in one sitting because that would take several hours.

[Ircher]

Still like my notsci vote.

[Ircher]

You're going to look ridiculous when I flip.

[Ircher]

For the claim or for a different reason. At this point, I'm leaning towards early game claims are NAI for Toogeloo.

Ircher could you expand on this?

I don't think I've seen a recent scum game from Toogeloo, but in both versus games (Pooky vs. Flavor Leaf and Nancy Drew vs. Titus), Toogeloo claimed VT right off the gate. It's not exactly a shocking claim, but it feels similar to what Toogeloo did here. If it were something Toogeloo ONLY did as town, it potentially falls under trust tell territory, so I assume that isn't the case.
Subject: Titus v Nancy Drew (Game Over)

Good evening to you all. I'm not going to overspeculate, but I'm going to at least assume scum didn't go crazy with their role picks. I'm VT which means I'm just along for the ride this game. Titus' got her team she wants, Nancy's got their team of Masons they want, other peeps got some juicy powerz probably, and then me... stuck in the middle twiddlin' my thumbs.

Wait... Why's this feel so familiar? Pooky, I'm having déjà vu!?!

(Pooky vs. FlavorLeaf I think was the exact same post minus the last bit.)

[Ircher]

I get that, but do you think he's aware it's a free town tell for him, or is this the last game we wring it out of him with? We were thinking the latter.

I would think they are aware of their habit of doing it, yes. Again, I trust that Toogeloo is playing fairly, so I don't think it spews them town in any form.

pedit: Mostly null. Crowdsourcing the claim kinda goes in tandem with the other stuff. Rest seems to be confusion with the mod's vcs/announcements which I'm not really going to read into. Nothing notable there besides the claim.

[Ircher]

MURDERCAT's posting a few pages ago felt a bit weak, but I'm not certain that corresponds with him being scum. I'll be back tomorrow with more content.

[Ircher]

This is yucky.

How so? It seems rather insightful to me.

Rolefishing is insightful? We all can tell this game has unique mechanics. We all must have discord.

I wouldn't really call it insightful, but I also wouldn't call it yucky either. It's somewhere in-between. It's not really rolefishing so much as it is just Guillotina aggressively attacking what some may perceive as a minor slip.

actually

@mod is there any way you can remove the people with no votes from the votecount? Having all those names there with no votes is just noise that makes it hard to focus in on where the votes are

Redacted.

Anya's ISO is just fluff so far, but the game has barely started. I'll give her more time.

I agree with this. When I saw Titus ask Guillotina about Anya, I was thinking, "Wait, has Anya even posted in this game?" Their posts to this post, despite being numerous, are empty and devoid of memorable content.

There shouldnt be space for game throwers in this game as that is a very bad reason to take out soo eone who is excited about playing the game.

(Policy kills aren't game-throws. If anything, they are some of the best shots to make.)

hey cabd shoot me a 6 player scum team pls.

this feels more like a 8 or 9 wolf game personally

maybe there's multiple packs

This feels like something scum says.

i was going to say it's an and/or, but maybe either implies exclusive or?

Ah, the ambiguity of everyday English...

{Toog, White Fire}
{TSQ, S_S, Dunn, Notsci}

This is our "not touching today" list.

I would 100% remove notsci and 80% remove Dunnstral and Toogeloo from this list.

that's all just speculation

(Read 311 first.) This is a terrible post for obvious reasons.

Meet Anya. She's just like this.

Yes, well, this doesn't excuse the behavior.

by the time all of this was done, N0 had ended.

(For future design reference, this kind of thing is exactly why you don't make phases 24 hour long in a non-blitz. It also applies to activity prods.)

I think i will start with VOTE: guillotina because i feel like there's attempt to stay active but content/posts ratio is low

I think his content ratio is par for the course.

Third parties are scum until explicitly proven otherwise.

People need to stop spreading this nonsense. There's two types of third parties: neutral like survivors, most jesters, etc. and self-aligned like serial killers. Only the latter is scum. The former are simply "not town", and note that that doesn't mean they are scum.

Read to bottom of page 15.
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So far ircher is town for me

I must admit, this statement kind of worries me, but not by how I'm approaching this game.

6. Ircher - mostly lack of presence and a really bad ISO from JJH.

You know, if you weren't confirmed town, these are horrible reasons to scum read me. jjh was flat out not here; maybe he joined but couldn't keep up. It happens hence why jjh got replaced. As for my lack of presence, I've already explained why I'm reading at a lower rate, and you should know that I generally post/catch up at a lower rate. I admit that I basically prodged yesterday, but I really didn't feel like reading then.

These two posts in red are huge contradictions my guy, you complained about the post volume and then you imply suspicion on LLD for the same, looks like by your own logic you outed yourself.

1) It's not a contradiction. Commenting that there is 20 pages already is not necessarily a complaint. It's an observation. (Yes, I was surprised by the number hence why I made the comment, but again, that doesn't mean I was complaining.)
2) I wasn't nailing LLD for complaining about posting volume but rather the implicit day vig soft claim aspect of it.
3) Only scum are perfectly consistent.

It's policy to claim negative utility actions without pressure on Day 1, if you are town.

I'm aware. Are you saying that you consider Toogeloo's claim as a negative utility role? I didn't get that impression; weak does not imply negatively utility.

Ircher's still not here.

I generally post in games at night, sometimes during the morning. This is especially true when I have pages to catch up on.

I don't have to read further to know that Ircher is off and he scum told in the wall post I posted.

I don't think you have seen a representative sample of my play. Since it just ended, explain to me how my play here resembles my play in Maruchan's grand idea game.

roughly 3 days we have left of the dayphase.

(7 day deadlines always feel so short, especially for day 1...)

[Ircher]

VOTE: Anya

[Ircher]

morph can be town actually from that post.

[Ircher]

Bell is NAI posting but it's a good push because of 344 suggesting he is not going to go back and interact with any content from the first ~10 pages

I looked at that post again, and I didn't get that impression. What about 344 makes you think Bell isn't going to interact with the last ten pages (from this post)? It strikes me more as a "I glanced at the current page, so here's a relevant comment," post which is in and of itself rather null.

271 from Fark felt genuine to me

I agree it feels genuine, but I think an underlying implication here is that you town read Farkran for that (even if not strongly), and I don't agree with that implication. I think it is a natural confusion to have, and thus, scum would have no reason to be less surprised by it than town.

You can't townread someone who's insane

??? This seems a bit out of context. Whom are you referring to here?

Feels like the sort of thing you'd put in a scum pt if you had one

Maybe, but I think it is still just as likely scum post that in the main thread.

kind of weird to look at a post that murdercat wasn't going to make but was prompted to make and think "yeah, this is the one i'm going to try and pick apart for something nitpicky to push."

Why is that weird? I think it's pretty natural people are going to break down the post with the most content in it. That post would happen to be it. Just because it was prompted by others shouldn't mean it should be of poor quality.

I called it TMI and Titus disagreed with a scumread in return.

Was I wrong?

I am pretty sure I mentioned this before, but I'll just say it again because I think it's worthwhile: yes, you're wrong in that post wasn't TMI. Certain games can give off that aura of grandness, so it is equally a reasonable statement as it is from town. It's not really a slip anyway since most good setups have the interesting mechanics being public knowledge. I do think Titus was a bit too quick to jump on you for it though.

But Flea seems fine?

(I actually find Flea to be rather unreadable most of the time. I will have to compare fae to the last two games I've seen of Fae, namely Maruchan's Grand Idea and my Grand Idea UPick game.) I don't think I've seen anything that's really a red flag from Flea yet, so I overall agree with this assessment.

Sigmund could be a role that knows everyone else's roles. He could have a lot of esteem for the setting, the writing, or the mod.
Or he could be scum with TMI, it's hard to know.

I do think you can eliminate some of these possibilities even without knowing the context.

How is that possible? or balanced? Or both? I mean, have you seen something like that?

It was used in team mafia, wasn't it? I agree it'd be a strong role, but it's not really game breaking. The main benefits of such a role is 1) fake claims and 2) knowing what to use other abilities for. Granted, for a large theme game, I think it would be a bit unusual to see.

Read to bottom of page 20. Yes, my pace has alas remained slow. Assuming I don't get faded, I will likely get a few pages in during the upcoming night phase, and hopefully that will go a long ways towards being caught up. It's actually hard to be motivated to catch up tbh. (Night will also be good for me to consolidate on reads.)
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I know Ircher to be a pretty quiet and timid player (at least in my experience). That's an unusual amount of bravado for him.

Eh, I would say I've been emboldened lately. Idk why; I've just been in that kind of mood. (I would hazard the guess that I find it more effective than other approaches I've used.)

i think it's strange to both think a player is scum and to make the post "you're going to look ridiculous when i flip town".

And I disagree. You could argue scum!me is just as likely to make that sort of post, sure, but to suggest that town!me never makes that post towards a scum read is not a reasonable stance.

Ircher is trying to put out content, but the content itself is irrelevant to sorting or finding scum this game day. example being the amount of time spent arguing about why Toog is null and not town.

Believe it or not, my focus right now is not on reads. My focus is finding things that catch my eye/are worth evaluating and commenting on them. The reads occur later, after I've made my observations and determined the overall feel. (That's not to say I don't have reads, but most are pretty insubstantial at this time.)

Ircher does get miselimmed and flip town, after notsci has been saying confidently he's scum, does that make notsci look ridiculous?

Yes, it can. Granted, it rarely happens in practice (the dead are mostly ignored), but it does happen. I see the point you are trying to make, namely that scum!notsci already knows my alignment; thus, he already would know he is "wrong". The thing is, it's not his perspective that matters with regards to the statement; rather, it is others' perception of him that I would expect to change after he hardpushes a misfade on me. I think the other aspect of this that you're getting at is that in some ways, there is a perceived hidden implication that I town read notscience. This is not the contradiction it may seem as the statement is also in some ways a wakeup call; namely, I'm implying that if notscience is town, they need to reevaluate. Rarely are reads set in stone, and I am of the opinion that regardless of how much I scum read a player (aside from a confirmed guilty), it is still worthwhile to try to engage them in the off chance my read is wrong, and they are actually town.

there's more reasoning about why Toog should be null than why notsci is scum.

This is to some extent being purposely done; particularly, I'm not going to elaborate on my notscience read at this time.

i think it'd be cool if everyone who hasn't given a read on Sigmund, STD, Ircher, Flea, does so.

Sigmund - From what I've read, he seems mostly all bark but rather lacking in notable things. That is, he is very aggressive in his responses, but at the same time, he isn't saying stuff of substance. It's not a great look, but I'm weary of giving a scum read because it strikes me as a play style thing.

Save the Dragons - Really feels fluffy. Not much more that I can say than that.

Flea The Magician - I mentioned this above, but I find Flea to be generally unreadable for me. Idk, faer style just doesn't mesh with the ways I get reads I guess. Solid null rn.

Probably go with Save the Dragons > Sigmund > Flea in order of willingness to fade.

I have big doubts on ircher flipping scum but I am willing to vote there because I want to be right really bad

I'm sorry, what was that?

[Ircher]

I said volume Bell
Not count, more what you’ve put in
But still not impressed.

They're directly correlated, and I don't think this distinction matters. Either way, it's a poor way to read a player.

last time i played with u and pushed u, u got extremely annoyed and were heavy into dissecting me. this time u seem not even interested. why is that

I think this is a good point with regards to Flea. I will see how fae responds.

Titus is being her unreadable self. In that, I don't get why she chooses her reads or positions or the timing. She's walkin' out of tune from everybody else.

Speaking of this, I feel Titus is much less readable this game than in other games I've recently played with her. That worries me quite some.

Yo, I'm not being apologetic or backpedaling.

(I honestly have no clue what Bell and Thestatusquo are arguing about.) That said, the interactions strikes me as TvT. Both seem to believe strongly in their positions, and at the same time, their reactions don't feel over the top.

When you scum read me for my suspicion on Sigmund's TMI, it reminded me of your scum game in that one Deck of Astral game.
I smell fear of me in you and you are trying to get everyone else wagoned on me because i have recent scum meta of you.

I really don't think Titus's play here resembles Deck of Astral Roles. Titus was off in the latter mainly because she was double-teaming. Here, she is just being all over the place. Also, you seem to have this habit of warping everything. No matter what the actual wording was, everything becomes high stakes when you translate it. I would advise toning down the aggressiveness and exaggerations.

I have 3 HP!

Toog shared that with the class

What was the point of repeating this information? Everyone saw this the first time around, and that info was given back on like page 3. It has no relevance to the conversations occurring on page 25.

Read to bottom of page 25.
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I'm guessing they felt they didn't have the authority to OMGUS me and they had already townread me without an explanation, their read on me was based on a feeling as far as I can recall.

Guillotina, have you ever tried looking at things from the opposite perspective. That is, have you tried looking at this from a potential town!Flea perspective. There's a wide variety of reasons Flea may have approached this game differently, and while your explanation is a possible one, it isn't the only one.

that doesn't justify this desperation to get people to invest in me my guess is she's trying to save either ircher or sigmund buddy

Or maybe Lambdadelta just thinks you're scum? Like I agree, she is being really forceful about getting people to vote you, but I really hate when people jump a few steps and try to attribute ulterior motives to actions. Also, your "surfing is a hobby of mine" is hardly a defense against Lady Lambdadelta's accusations. If anything, I think it makes you sound more culpable here.

It is a terrible post, but is it a scummy post or is it a post from someone who didn't read the OP?

I think I missed this earlier, but saw it in quoted in one of Flea's quote walls. (For reference, this post refers to 311/312.) While it's not a terribly strong case, I do think it's scum indicative, and I don't agree that it is a case of someone not reading the OP. Even if Anya initially didn't, the post she is responding to quotes the relevant section. It's not ignorance; it's feigned ignorance. It's also a confusing and misleading statement for others, and I can see plenty of reasons why scum would like to throw that into the mix. On the contrary, I see very few reasons or benefits to town!Anya making such a post. At best, it is just noise. Another of Flea's posts quotes Something_Smart's 2130: I guess that's a possibility, but it really didn't strike me as a joke when I read it.

Which one?

(In response to 2125.) I'm referring to the chart in 1979. Yes, it's technically a lazy read (and effort != alignment), but I think it's a sufficient indicator for the time being.

Im not asking for pre-flip associations. You said that you think there could be a scum between Sig/Flea why not resolve it today instead of having this day's convo about Sig/Flea again on day 2?

She definitely did not say this. She said there might be scum involved with the Sig/Flea interaction, but there are more people involved with that TMI interaction than just Flea and Sigmund.

(Also side note: can we try to avoid nesting quotes too deeply? They take up a lot of space and hard to read when it goes beyond three or so layers of quotes.)

Failing to flesh out reasons to match the confidence in a strong scumread has been recurring this game imo (whemestar on white fire, white fire on flea, flea on me, lld on anya).

I think this is true, but I don't see it as a bd thing necessarily. Sometimes, you just *know* something is the case, but it's hard to put in words, and I think that's how a lot of these reads go.

[Ircher]

Idk, I can kinda see it. It would give us a way to better verify actions etc., especially with Toogeloo's role.

[Ircher]

I think regardless of the SP value, we shouldn't fade Sigmund here based on the claim. It'll probably sort itself anyway.

[Ircher]

@Ircher, try breaking up quotes from a tablet, then send a tutorial of how to do it easier, while you do that, i'll keep the nested quotes for context.

Highlight the relevant text and then press the quote button. If you do it correctly, it will keep what you highlighted and discard the rest. I do it all the time on my phone.

[Ircher]

Sadly, the quote feature doesn't work in locked threads and the pm format is ugly. I will be linking post numbers and using quotation marks around the relevant text.

Post 679 by Titus: "Ndmath is scum. I can't analyze depth but i can analyze them skipping right over my reply to them." --> I feel Titus is attempting to make up a reason to scum read NDMath here rather than letting the facts dictate the read. While it is possible that NDMath purposefully skipped it, NDMath only made one other post between the initial post Titus is referring to here (537) and when Titus made this post. Granted, NDMath's post is on the same page as Titus's initial post, but it seems to me that simply not seeing the post is a very reasonable thing to have happened.

Post 695 by Thestatusquo: "this seems mildly overstated." --> (Thestatusquo is referring to Guillotina's 694.) This is just being nit-picky to be nit-picky. Guillotina has well established by this point that he likes to overstate stuff, so this is a rather pointless comment.

Post 708 by Lady Lambdadelta: "Dunnstral read is that dunn is applying a LOT of good early pressure to good early targets [...] But Dunn is clever enough to do that kind of target selection purposefully seeking for weakness." --> I think I mostly agree with this, yet at the same time, I can't help but feel something is off about Dunnstral. It might just be paranoia.

Post 737 by MURDERCAT: "Like how do you know I'm a good push if you didn't read any of my content? How do you know I hadn't already produced a lot of content when Dunn pushed me? You shouldn't have known that" --> Lady Lambdadelta's statement strikes me as a more general statement, independent of the actual contents of the thread.

Post 756 by MURDERCAT: "My point is that I think you are underselling your knowledge of game state and I think you gained that knowledge of the game state through a scum pt." --> (Referring to Lady Lambdadelta.) I don't really agree. See my comment above.The other comment I want to make of it is that there are multiple possible explanations, and the sequence of posts that began with 737 and continuing to this post are approaching from a very one-sided and biased perspective.

Post 763 by Thestatusquo: "Like idk if I buy that you really believe that scum PTs are places where people are cranking out reads and cliffnotes for their teammates because I just don't think I've ever seen that happen?" --> It is heavily dependent on the particular mafia team, but it has happened. For instance, Pooky vs. Flavor Leaf from last year had a really long scum thread, and while they didn't quite plan every minute detail, there was a lot of real-time coaching. (At the very least, that's what it seemed like.)

Post 772 by Thestatusquo: "Guillotina is like hyyyyyyper paranoid." --> This is typical for Guillotina as both alignments. I wouldn't read into it too much, although there might be some differences in the intensity. I'll have to research into that (if I ever feel the compulsion to actually do such research).

Post 778 by MURDERCAT: "This is a bad vote" --> (Referring to Bingle's vote in 776.) It really wasn't especially after the way you handled your Lady Lambdadelta read in the last page or two.

Post 783 by MURDERCAT: "Like fypov LLD and I are either partners or you think I woke up today and chose death in the game I just signed up for" --> How does that interaction imply that Lady Lambdadelta and you are partners? That looked nothing like scum theatre. As for the latter, idk, I kind of feel you did decide to do precisely that. It's not the most likely explanation, but it doesn't seem /that/ farfetched.

Post 788 by MURDERCAT: "If I'm scum why push you, is the point" --> (Again, he is referring to Lady Lambdadelta here.) This is essentially a WIFOM argument. It's not a good argument at all.

Post 805 by Guillotina: "They feel like they are designed to force me into having to defend myself instead of game solving and that is not fun." --> Remember: You are in control of what you do. No one is forcing you to do anything; you are free to ignore the votes. (Granted, you may get faded, but you have a choice nonetheless.) Furthermore, the two aren't mutually exclusive.

Post 810 by MURDERCAT: "If my goal was purely survival, I wouldn't be interacting with you like this." --> Okay, sure, but survival isn't a mafioso's only goal. I think scum you would have a lot to gain by discrediting Lady Lambdadelta here, and while it might track some ire, I don't think this would ever directly lead to you being faded. In a way, it's risky, yet at the same time, it isn't really risky.

Read to bottom of page 33. (This is what I read over the night phase.)

[Ircher]

go ahead

[Ircher]

VOTE: MURDERCAT

[Ircher]

I HAVE A GUILTY ON TITUS

Explain.

[Ircher]

We can vig the guilty and lim elsewhere. If that fails, we can come back to it tomorrow.

[Ircher]

Well did you attack me last night notscience?

[Ircher]

@G, Your reasoning for your scumreads is all people who have disagreed/had conflict with you on some level.

This is a lot of words for you to basically state that you scum read Guillotina for his play style. While I agree that it would be nice if Guillotina didn't make everything revolve around himself, that isn't the case, and you should adjust your reads accordingly. I find this especially troubling since you have recently played with town Guillotina.

What? Toog's in the game?

This reads fake. I don't believe that Titus would miss Toogeloo's claim unless she hadn't read that far, but she has given the impression she is up to date on the thread.

Townguillotina is much more omgussy that scumguillotina. ScumG has a better sense of when to back off

This is good to know. Adding to my ISO for reference.

@Flea - you don't have to change how you post, but letting you know your post formatting is still really hard to interact with on mobile.

(I kind of agree with this. I know I do quote walls too, but I think the spoilers actually make things harder to read/work with. Generally, the way I do notes on my phone is I highlight and quote the relevant part. I then return to the page using the back arrow and refresh, but this closes the spoilers, so I have to jump back up. If it is one long post, I don't have to move as far, and it's easier to keep track of where I am in the post.)

Something_Smart, Toogeloo, notscience, NDMath, Lady Lambdadelta, morph the cat, Not_Mafia

Exactly 3 scumbags are on this list.

Why did you think there were exactly three scum on this list? Do you still think that?

If I took a guess, I'd probably go with NDMath, notscience, and Not_Mafia here as the scum.

what was your anya vote based off of, if you explained it I missed it.

(Referring to Titus's 944.) This is actually a good question because my impression was that the Anya vote was an RVS vote that just never got changed.

This post is a cop out. There's "I don't like meta as a reason to lock town or lock someone" and then theres "actively ignoring information you have"

(Referring to Titus's 952.) Yeah, I agree with this; Titus's statement just seems very weird and convenient. Also, she has never struck me in the past as someone who didn't really care for meta, but maybe I just didn't pay enough attention.

Read to bottom of page 40.
---

How do you highlight text from different paragraphs on mobile though. Otherwise i will be warned for spamming the place with multiple small text?

I admit, it takes some effort, but basically, you highlight the first relevant section and quote it. Next, paste it into your notes app or whatever (you are using one, right?). Now, you can make your comments abiut this first sentence or paragraph or whatever. Then, when you reach the next pertinent part, you highlight and quote it again. Repeat as necessary. The first few times might be a hassle, but you get used to it pretty quick.
---
With regards to Arte's claim, I don't think it fully adds up. I also think Titus's play has a good chance of being scum, so I am currently pretty confident there is at least one scum between the two of them.

[Ircher]

Also, I agree that the self target --> can't self target backtrack looked pretty bad aside from the other claim issues.

[Ircher]

I demand a flip between Artemia and Titus today!

100% this.

[Ircher]

VOTE: Titus

[Ircher]

To be clear, I think Arte's retraction is just as bad as the claim itself, but I also think from play, Titus has a higher chance of flipping scum.

[Ircher]

Like both being scum seems most likely to me.

[Ircher]

Hot Take: Titus/Artemia/Morph I think there are at least two scum here.

+1

[Ircher]

The interactions with the fake guilty alone is more than enough to show Titus is scum here. That was 100% a SvS interaction.
Aside from that, she's all over the place, and I think that's because she wants to throw us all off. She may be known for her moon logic, but this isn't that; it's just utter chaos. I don't think she's scumhunting; she is merely trying to give off the impression she is.

[Ircher]

Flea, vote Titus please.

[Ircher]

You should stay. Just because the claim got retracted doesn't mean Titus is innocent. She's still very culpable from the interaction alone.

[Ircher]

4. White Fire (Shiro/Firebringer) - Null town, only reserve is buddying.
5. Lady Lambdadelta - Weak town (solely bc past baggage, anyone else solid town)

These read as reads that you want to pivot away from later. Basically, you state that they are town for now, but when it becomes convenient, you will be able to change them due to your "reservations" now.

A real weak excuse
You can still read tone, but sure
Easy to fan flames

No. People just ignore your posts and give you a free pass because "post restriction means town". Granted, you did drop it; I'll give you that. Point still stands though that this "post restriction" of yours actively made it much harder to read you. Also, tone is irrelevant. People can fake whatever tone they like; it's one of the easiest things to fake. Want to fake confidence? Easy, just say things directly and with force. Want to appear uninterested? That's easy too; just complain a lot about being bored and lurk. Want to fake frustration? Just make your words forceful and if you are so inclined, throw in a few curses. Add in a "I'm leaving before I get extra angry," for added effect. With the post restriction, it becomes even easier to just have an abject absence of a tone.

I think I can read ircher pretty well unless he has changed up his meta. Haven’t played with him in a while. I’ll see when he starts making posts

I am curious if you still think that at this point in the game.

It's the trend of large themes over the past few years to have scumteams that don't actually post that much

Is it that they end up lurking... or that they get drowned out? Another popular trend (and it didn't start in 2020) is for large themes to move at a ridiculously fast pace. Regardless, I don't put much stock in this kind of thing.

*snip*

LLD is town, and not solely due to this post, but more as to my overall impression including this post.

Read to bottom of page 45, a rather boring past five pages.

[Ircher]

1. Morph the Cat (fferyllt/Cabd) - Lean scum
2. Dunnstral - Neutral scum
4. White Fire (Shiro/Firebringer) - Null town
5. Lady Lambdadelta - Likely town
6. jjh927 Ircher - Town
7. Artemiana - Likely scum
8. Sigmund - Neutral town
9. Titus - Likely scum
10. Bell - Neutral town
12. NDMath - Null scum
13. WhemeStar - Null town
14. notscience - Lean scum
16. Guillotina - Lean town
18. Flea the Magician - Null scum
19. Chara - Neutral town
20. Thestatusquo - Lean town
21. MURDERCAT - Lean scum
22. Farkran - Neutral town
23. Bingle - Confirmed town
24. Something_Smart - Null town

Reads update. I do not plan on expanding on any of these.

[Ircher]

Elaborate since you've outted.

[Ircher]

Elaborate since you've outted.

Noting that you didn't ask the same of us when I outed that we targeted Sigmund N1/S2.

Pretty sure someone else asked you to do so, so there wasn't a need for me to ask you.

[Ircher]

I don't feel like reading tonight, so I'm not. I still think Titus is a great fade here.

[Ircher]

Isn't NDMath normally pretty quiet?

[Ircher]

I thought 3076 was decent. I don't agree with everything in it, but he does a good job explaining his thought process and performing proper critical analysis. I can imagine several ways scum would write an equivalent post. Ultimately, NDMath just feels like it would be a lurker fade, and tbh, that's not going to be better than rand in my books.

[Ircher]

So his activity is null.

[Ircher]

Do not associate low post count with lurking.

[Ircher]

Their refusal to confirm my action was scummy too.

This is true, but I don't think it's that big of a deal. Seems more spiteful than scummy.

[Ircher]

Do not associate low post count with lurking.

uh, why not

They're not synonymous but they sure are highly correlated

I could've worded it better. What I meant was that having a low post count does not directly imply one is lurking.

[Ircher]

That comment wasn't about NDMath anyway.

[Ircher]

Do not associate low post count with lurking.

[Ircher]

That comment wasn't about NDMath anyway.

[Ircher]

@Mod: Can we have a vote count please?

[Ircher]

stop fake 1v1ing its cringe

[Ircher]

Can I just say that Titus is being *extra* confusing this game.

See! It is as I said earlier: Titus is all over the place this game.

I thought it was a bulletproof softing and we were trying to run you up because counterclaim here. Sorry :/

Uh what? You don't think there can be two bulletproofs in a single game, especially a large theme probably role madness kind of game? If you truly thought your role counterclaims theirs, why didn't you just do your counter claim rather than this indirect wagoning nonsense?

I don't think that protecting me tonight is a valuable use of our resources, nor do I want any invention esque abilities. In fact, if you're town you will not target me at all for any reason.

You know, if you really wanted people to follow this, you would have posted it more prominently, not on a random page in normal font. This is especially true since this is contrary to standard mechanical play.

Read to bottom of page 50. That was a very boring set of five pages even despite Bingle's reveal.

[Ircher]

I am fully down to power pivot Ircher for that post.

Go right ahead.

[Ircher]

No if scum were fine with the wagon, MURDERCAT would already be hammered. Besides, "lack of votes" is blatantly false. I'm the second largest wagon.

[Ircher]

VOTE: Bingle
IC or not, this needs to go.

[Ircher]

VOTE: Titus

[Ircher]

Of course I did. Who else did you think I was going to shoot at last night?

[Ircher]

And guess what? If I survive this day, I'll be shooting at you again.

[Ircher]

He's in my scum reads and isn't going to be faded any time soon, so HP damage is the only way forward.

[Ircher]

GLADIATE: MURDERCAT

There, it's official now. Take your pick: MURDERCAT or me. You have no other options now.

[Ircher]

Why do you want to see the mod confirmed player faded? If you think he is wrong, why not work with him instead? Help him look at things from another perspective?

He's a lost cause. Anyway, I know full well that Bingle is going to be faded, so it is more a symbolic gesture anyway. If I truly wanted to get rid of him, it'd be pretty easy.

[Ircher]

GLADIATE: MURDERCAT

There, it's official now. Take your pick: MURDERCAT or me. You have no other options now.

What is your intention with this?

MURDERCAT is scum. I'm 75% sure of it. No, I won't elaborate. Everyone will pick a side now since I've forced it.

[Ircher]

There will be no more fencesitting and things will actually happen. No more "they're both town". None of that nonsense. Scum will be forced to take a side, and it will show. Meanwhile, we are guaranteed a fade that isn't a deadline fade.

[Ircher]

VOTE: MURDERCAT

[Ircher]

wagons are 7 MURDER, 6 me rn if I counted correctly.

[Ircher]

Why do you need mod confiemation? Besides, you're already voting me, so.....

[Ircher]

I hope they get well soon morph.

[Ircher]

The VC is wrong as duplicates weren't removed.

Fixed now.

[Ircher]

We mean shoot as in do HP damage. notsci shot me and I shot notsci.

[Ircher]

VOTE: MURDERCAT

[Ircher]

Why do you want to see the mod confirmed player faded? If you think he is wrong, why not work with him instead? Help him look at things from another perspective?

He's a lost cause. Anyway, I know full well that Bingle is going to be faded, so it is more a symbolic gesture anyway.

If I truly wanted to get rid of him, it'd be pretty easy.

???

Yes, it would easy to do, especially as scum. We al have innate damaging abilities, and I doubt Bingle has more than 5 HP for balancing reasons. If anything, I would suspect it is on the lower side to balance the IC ability.

[Ircher]

He's also against NDMath flipping too.

I'm not really against it even though I've expressed opposition. I just think it's a very low value fade that doesn't have better than rand chance of flipping scum. Our time is better utilized elsewhere, and we can shoot NDMath at night.

[Ircher]

Also then the gladiate of Ircher vs murdercat when it's clear that notsci is the scum of choice from ircher....

Obviously, if I gladiate notscience, I will lose 98% of the time. I'd rather pick someone who I have a reasonable chance of winning against.

[Ircher]

It wasn't a gambit. I wasn't risking anything. It was a game-shaping event.

[Ircher]

Anyway, I 100% expect to be faded here, so I'm not bothering reading any past pages until night.

[Ircher]

There's at least one scum in the people who switched from MURDERCAT to me between the last two vcs. Guess who my money (if I were betting) is on?

[Ircher]

Your definition of shade clearly differs from mine. The thing re:pgo soft was a suggestion/advice, not shade. 4235 is my version of events which I'm contrasting against yours. Again, it's not shade. Remember: disagreeing isn't shade.

[Ircher]

The reasons are self-evident.

pedit: You could call that shade yes. I stand by the fact the rest aren't.

[Ircher]

It's not about attention. It's about things happening

[Ircher]

Do you think Murderkitty is scum, if you do why do you think so?

yes
reread pages 26-33.

[Ircher]

Hello everyone! Does anyone

want

me to read all of the pages or am I good to pick up here? Any specific things you want me to read either?

Read maybe the first 20-40 pages and ignore the rest.

[Ircher]

Ircher if you have an uncertain result on me claim it, otherwise I think we are both town and you are doing us both a disservice

I don't, but what makes you think I have one?

It's possible

(In response to 4370.) Sure, but lots of things are possible. The real question that MURDERCAT was asking here is it probable, which you totally evaded answering.

I want everyone to name their top 3 preferred votes today, as of right now, and give me a single line as to why for each.

Titus - I think I mentioned this before. The main thing is the Arte-Titus interactions D2 felt really like SvS. Other than that, Titus feels off at a more instinctual level; she seems more over the place than typical.
MURDERCAT - I've also explained this, but the way he treated your slot Day 1 around page 30 felt really wrong to me. Aside from that, his play seems a bit weak here, though I admit his recent posts seem a bit better.
notscience - I think the way notsci has interacted with me has been scummy, and I don't read the poetry restriction as town. If I'm wrong on a read, it's most likely this one, but meh. His recent fixation on analyzing interactions with Not_Mafia doesn't make me want to change my read.

Honestly I’m perfectly fine if shea and ircher want to keep voting me

I'm not currently voting you and haven't since day 1....

Ircher - He feels WEIRD here. The ConftownBingle/NotSci convo confusing me more. What we do know is notsci dies tonight from Irchers attack, as it's been claimed and I'm not entirely sure that kinda of stuck in the mud attitude is beneficial here.

You're still misreading unless you somehow know notscience's HP is 2. In fact, that alone is probably the strongest indicator for scum you I've seen all game. It's not terribly strong of course, but this confusion could be due to inside knowledge. Let's be clear here though: neither of us are claiming abilities that can instantly kill another player. Like I said earlier, we were referring to doing HP damage, and as it stands, it is highly likely neither of us die from HP damage tonight if we're the only ones to target each other.

Ircher- They are in permanent catchup, but the only time they mention NotMaf is 3593 in response to Sigmund’s “Three in this pool are scum” which is, again, ridiculously obvious its a scum role so it seems very lame to address here (also im also in the pool and we all know how I feel about that)

I disagree that it's lame to address there. It gives you a sense of where my reads are at the time.

If NDMath survives, I will shoot them.

Noting this.

[Ircher]

I didn't claim how much damage I dealt. I did one damage, and notsci confirmed receiving damage at some point in the thread.

[Ircher]

The only way notsci dies tonight from me damaging him is if he has 2 HP. See my last post.

[Ircher]

No one is interested in fading you, so voting you is a waste of time especially when HP damage mechanics exist.

pedit: No, it's a fallacy. It's rooted in some notion of reality, but it's still a fallacy.

[Ircher]

The only way notsci dies tonight from me damaging him is if he has 2 HP. See my last post.

If not because you deal 2 damage then why?

It's addition: 1 damage night 1 plus 1 damage night 2 would equal 2 damage total n2. I really don't understand what you aren't understanding here.

There's no reasonable reason for Flea to assume I do two damage since all the flips this game have been 1 damage, and I think it's only you has claimed to do 2 damage. Anyway, even if that was the assumption, it should be apparent by now that I deal one damage, so I don't see why this is continuing not to click for you.

[Ircher]

Ninja-
aren’t you supposed to be catching up still?

[Ircher]

@Ircher: if you attack notty tonight i am going to be very, very cross with your reads this game if you’re town.

I make no promises. That said, I might not be able to mechanically--the moderator's rule say to suppose that all actions are indecisive (can't target same person twice in a row).

MURDERCAT 153

It's not the quantity but the content matters. Also, maybe you were active Day 1 and not Day 2. This doesn't help your case.

[Ircher]

I mean I don't really see how what you quoted was softs nor do I think your role has to be town

I agree with this.

[Ircher]

He at least has a take. NDMath has proven wrong reads that consistently benefit scum. Murdercat is not limming Bell so he has nothing to gain as scum by pushing there or focusing there. He'd be better off pushing NDMath or Ircher.

Your resistance here is duly noted.

If mcat flips town, attack ndmath. If mcat flips red, reassess.

Sounds good to me. I agree with the other point as well.

NDMath's claim is not backed up by Sigmund. What are you talking about?

Yeah it is. The odds of randomly guessing who visited someone in a role madness game (this strikes me as one) are extremely low. If someone else wants to claim to have visited Lady Lambdadelta to disprove NDMath's claim, they may go ahead; until then, Sigmund's confirmation supports NDMath's claim. (I will duly note I am making no assumptions about alignments here. Please don't later put words in my mouth.)

Dwlee might be scum btw.

No, guillo was too uptight to be scum

Idk. I think Guillo was mildly townie but not by a large margin due to similarity in play across alignments. Dwlee has been scumming it up ever since replacing in. Like, I want to give the benefit of the doubt, but they're making it really tough to do so.

Interactions with me were actually terrible you should reread it. Gave me the actual worst vibes of "I have complete bullshit reasons to want MC dead."

This btw is a prime example of my above comment.

I think on a murdercat scum flip:
I shoot ircher and eliminate white fire day 3

On a town flip, you can shoot me. On a scum flip, you should pick someone else.

As a mod I would never answer that question directly if it was directly impactful on someone's fake claim.

I disagree with this as this becomes undue mod influence and unpredictable. Either you decide in advance to answer the question or to refuse to answer, but you shouldn't let that decision be affected by events in the game like a particular fake claim.

[Ircher]

I will say: if NDMath's claim is true and town alongside Sigmund, scum must have strong powers this game.

[Ircher]

I do think MURDERCAT is the better lim for associatives, but at this point, they're probably about equal in scum equity.

[Ircher]

5. Knowing the flavor will make me happy, but relying too much on it will get you burned. Don't do it.

[Ircher]

They can't keep everyone alive though. We're already up to what? Three potential threats to scum. They're gonna have to start eliminating them at some point if they are town.

[Ircher]

I fully expect scum to have a roleblocker if both Sigmund and NDMath are true claiming.

[Ircher]

Cuz otherwise, Town Doctor + Town Watcher is pretty broken.

[Ircher]

I'd be fine with shooting Arte despite the claim.

[Ircher]

Well of course you would it advances scum wincon

It only does so if she's town.

[Ircher]

Why must everyone insist on things being last minute?

[Ircher]

The backoff when the gambit was exposed didnt feel town either

The exposure of the gambit didn't feel town.

[Ircher]

Yes, well, others are entitled to their own reads, and it's quite clear we have different reads.

[Ircher]

Arte claimed no results so far; just a poorly executed fake guilty on Titus.

[Ircher]

I'm gonna be honest: there's a high chance (>50%) that I shoot one of Titus/Arte tonight.

[Ircher]

Or I could shoot you again.

[Ircher]

I'm kind of leaning towards NDMath and MURDERCAT aren't both scum. Both have similar scum equities rn though.

[Ircher]

about tied on MURDER/NDMath. I think MURDERCAT may have one more vote.

[Ircher]

VOTE: NDMath then. I think MCat is town here and hoping they're going to keep the effort level up.

What was the point in asking?

[Ircher]

I have decided my killing choices based on who flips. I'm not posting them, but they should be relatively easy to deduce.

[Ircher]

VOTE: NDMath

Someone just hammer.

[Ircher]

...Seriously?

[Ircher]

Ninja-
His awful take on me

The feeling is mutual.

[Ircher]

Pretty happy with the ndmath flip.

We still need a vote.

[Ircher]

Yes, but what I meant was NdMath hasn't flipped yet.

[Ircher]

Stop posturing and admit that notty is obvious town please and thank you.

I could but it would be empty words.

[Ircher]

Cmon, you’re a better player than this.

At best, I could upgrade him to a weak town read. He's far from obvtown even if I discount his read on me.

[Ircher]

I think it's MC - 8 and ND - 9 now.

[Ircher]

VOTE: MURDER
E-1 I think

[Ircher]

Zzzz why are we stretching everything to the lasts minute?

[Ircher]

pretty sure it is 9/9 now.

[Ircher]

so I'm just gonna stay on MC and hammer if Math hits E-1.

So if I hop again, will you hammer? Or will something happen to drag out the day again?

[Ircher]

which part?

[Ircher]

I would like an extra vote just so we're sure.

[Ircher]

I'd also be careful there wheme cause that feels like it was a direct quote.

It seems it is okay. The moderator hasn't taken action.

[Ircher]

Ask and you shall receive.
pedit: yes.

[Ircher]

outside Bingle, artemiana is our strongest townread

no way. Arte is scum with Titus.

[Ircher]

I am claiming the Titus kill.

[Ircher]

I can full claim if people prefer that.

[Ircher]

I am claiming the Titus kill.

As in, you did some amount of damage to her, or you directly did lethal damage?

Lethal damage.

[Ircher]

Honestly was tempted to shoot NDMath after the flip.

[Ircher]

Why thestatusquo? I think he has had some good takes this game. On the other hand, it's clear my reads are really bad this game.

[Ircher]

VOTE: catboi

Alright then. My claim offer still stands; however, I'm probably not doing it if I'm only asked by one or two people.

pedit: They aren't always, but there's a good correlation.

[Ircher]

I attacked you (catboi) because your slot was a lurker slot with high scum equity.

I felt my read on Titus was stronger though and more worthy of the vig shot. Obviously, I am wrong about that.

[Ircher]

Why the roleplay is very interesting, I don't think it helps us with regards to townreading you.

[Ircher]

Ftr, I was originally gonna damage Something_Smart but White Fire struck me as the less useful of the two across the game.

[Ircher]

VOTE: Something_Smart
I actually think this might be better.

[Ircher]

I was somewhat townreading White Fire day 1.

[Ircher]

VOTE: Something_Smart
I actually think this might be better.

Elaborate on the scum equity of S_S over Catboi please.

They're about equal but I'm inclined to maybe give catboi a benefit of the doubt as like I said, I was mildly town reading White Fire day 1, but I can't say the same for Something_Smart.

@catboi -- Give us some reads to work with. That's probably the most useful thing for you to do to show you are town.

[Ircher]

"Your Adventurer's Journal is an incredibly hefty tome. Reading it from cover to cover might take me a fortnight. Surely you don't expect me to have gone over the entire thing in such a short period of time?"

I don't expect you to read everything. Heck, I haven't read the entire thread despite replacing in Day 1. (I'm technically on page 55 or so, but I stopped because it just wasn't worth the time and effort).

That said, did you not read at all over the night? I wouldn't exactly blame you if you didn't (I most certainly didn't), but if you did, surely you could give some reads based off of what you read.

[Ircher]

More specifically:

Why didn't he protect Artemisia who claimed cop

I can think of a reason, especially if he might have had doubts about the alignment.

[Ircher]

You realize that's not gonna happen, right? The temptation is too great.

[Ircher]

Might be a good idea for accounting purposes.

pedit: I didn't kill save the dragons. That was Dunn.

[Ircher]

N1 was notscience and N2 was catboi.

[Ircher]

oh, so it was. how many vigilantes are there? i recall Dunn's was a vig and not an attack, but i'd have to check.

dunn is an attack for two damage if I recall correctly.

[Ircher]

No one claimed the other one damage which is interesting.

pedit: Yeah, I agree that's a weird statement.

[Ircher]

Though I do agree that townies shouldn't be trying to hero shoot (for instance, shooting Titus when you had her as solid town was pretty bad, if Ircher is town).

I was never townreading Titus. It might be a hero shoot, but the fake guilty gambit was really poorly executed and heavily implicated them both from my perspective.

[Ircher]

"My strategy is to gather impressions during real time interaction first and foremost, and then refine those impressions via the evidence in the Adventurer's Log."

I encourage you to start with day 2 rather than day 1.

[Ircher]

We should have at least one more day before LimLo/MeLo.

[Ircher]

I highly doubt five kills will occur at once.

[Ircher]

Simple: I read the first half of day 1, and it really wasn't worth my time. Day 2 has more interesting associative reads to form from the wagons and now known flips.

[Ircher]

I'm not holstering, and you aren't going to change that. You can give me a target pool, but again, I'm not holstering.

[Ircher]

Here's what I got for chip damage:

N1:

notscience - Ircher 1
Ircher - notscience 1
Dunnstral - Save the Dragons 2
Titus - NDMath 1 (according to Dunn; I don't recall seeing this)

N2:

Ircher - catboi 1
Dunnstral - NDMath 2

[Ircher]

Ircher might have hinted at it which would be very +town if he did, and I want his guess specifically before I claim but after the rest of massclaim.

I actually do not recall this and don't really have a guess for it.

I guess I'll
UNVOTE:

But I personally think this is being overly cautious.

[Ircher]

Attacks weren't a thing for N0, so I think we can omit that.

[Ircher]

If we spam the thread with side convos, people might not know it's their turn.

[Ircher]

Uh I didn't get damaged Night 2.

[Ircher]

Fae did---Harbinger.

[Ircher]

I should clarify my previous comment: unwnd did not tell me my HP updated. I have asked for confirmation it has not changed; maybe they just forgot.

Ircher (Gunner)

Night 0 attack: No Damage Dealt
Night 1 attack: notscience for 1 Damage
Night 2 Attack: catboi for 1 Damage

[Ircher]

unwnd has confirmed I did take damage and just forgot to tell me.

[Ircher]

VOTE: T3
Good idea Wheme.

[Ircher]

That said I don't want him anywhere close to a hammer This might be like the Nora versus cakes thing on day one of xeno

What was that?

[Ircher]

UNVOTE: for now then

[Ircher]

1. Morph the Cat (fferyllt/Cabd) - Confirmed Town
2. Dunnstral - Lean town but healthy dose of paranoia
4. White Fire (Shiro/Firebringer) catboi - Null scum
5. Lady Lambdadelta - Lean town
6. jjh927 Ircher - Town
8. Sigmund - Neutral town
10. Bell - Likely town
13. WhemeStar - Neutral town
14. notscience - Neutral town
16. Guillotina Dwlee99 - Lean scum
18. Flea the Magician - Neutral scum
19. Chara - Lean town
20. Thestatusquo T3 - Was lean town but T3 is tanking the slot
22. Farkran - Neutral town
23. Bingle - Confirmed town
24. Something_Smart - Neutral scum

Reads update. Apparently I don't have 5 scum reads rn; I guess I could downgrade Farkran to a scum read; he seems tp be staying out of trouble a bit too much.

[Ircher]

Well the good news is I'm not gonna survive to end game. Either scum is going to get rid od me by chip damage or town is.

[Ircher]

Are we good for ending the day? Please be explicit.

[Ircher]

What is the difference between null scum and neutral scum, ircher?

Null is generally a very weak read whereas neutral is for mixed reads. In some cases, neutral is also used for somewhat weak reads.

Ircher: notscience (?)

notscience deals 1 damage; pretty sure this has been mentioned several times.

I am a shaman

You’re boring.

Why were you against claiming?

[Ircher]

Bingle notscience

[Ircher]

............Lot of things can change between now and then Lady Lambdadelta.

[Ircher]

It might be a good idea to direct attack damage? Like it's not foolproof, but it could lead to increasing our efficiency and elimming the poe players at the bottom.

[Ircher]

I mean, didn't we already do that? It's not like that number changes day to day.

[Ircher]

VOTE: notsci
Sure thing

[Ircher]

I town read that slot, but meh, my read accuracy is bad this game. It's probably better for everyone sake to make the decision this phase.

[Ircher]

okay the slot can die now

[Ircher]

there are way too many issues leaving a redirector alive in this setup

[Ircher]

But how would that be resolved? That action would have to resolve immediately and poses timing issues.

[Ircher]

You didn't answer my question. Any role that poses a choice to a player to make during the night must resolve immediately, but that doesn't play nice with other roles; didn't someone confirm there's a true roleblocker in this setup?

[Ircher]

Spoiler:

who bingle notscience bell
who bingle notscience bell
who bingle notscience bingle
who bingle notscience bell
who bingle notscience bell
who bingle notscience sigmund
who bingle notscience bingle
who bingle notscience bell
who bingle notscience bell
who bingle notscience sigmund

[Ircher]

pagetop

[Ircher]

Tbf, I think a lot DID change today.

[Ircher]

Spoiler: morph post

All of these reads ARE in order, the higher within each tier, the stronger the town read.

Touch Not a Single Hair On Their Heads

Morph the Cat (fferyllt/Cabd) - Mod Confirmed

Bingle - Mod Confirmed

notscience - You will literally never convince us out of this read; meta, tone, style, the way our crumbing dance went, the way Mara's claim went down around him nodding at it

Bell - For {Bell_Alignment} get {postcount}. If {postcount}>50/Day -->Town; else-->Scum

Sigmund - Day One Wagon Compositions. Bravado in throwing down with scum on this list. Claim fits ours like yin and yang.

Break This Glass In Case of Lack of Endgame After The Lower Tiers All Die

Dunnstral - If Dunn is scum this game, he has not just like, ridden the bus, or driven the bus, he has become the metaphysical concept of all buses that have ever existed at any point in the universe. He probably should be a tier higher but eh. Not his style. He'd also be working harder to get our attention.

Dwlee99 - I fully admit this read is based more upon the meta tells of his predecessor. Guillo has a few tonal markers we look for and expect, and he hit all of them with not just a pass, but a pass with flying colors. Dwlee has done nothing but improve our opinion of the slot since.

Chara - Chara has been wavering in ours reads list a lot. That said, the TSQ slot scum-claiming rockets them all the way to up here. I would be incredibly shocked if Chara is scum with TSQ, and this game doesn't have traitors per the public alignment counts, so there ya go. There have been a LOT of points recently, mostly in day three, that ffery and I found ourselves cheering for a Chara post.

Ircher - Ircher is most likely a vig here. I don't really think that scum has chip damage, a factional kill, AND an extra kill. That said, Ircher's continued stubbornness while once endearing has started to grate hard, and it's unlikely but NOT impossible that scum did have some sort of gates extrakill.

POE Murder List Winners

WhemeStar - his level of caginess given what he's shared about his role just doesn't make sense. He's hit a lot of town notes, but he hasn't really taken stands on players. He's expressed paranoia about the usual "scary" players, basically.

Lady Lambdadelta - ~takes cover~ It's just hard to see people above as less town than she's been, and it's also hard to fit their shapes into a team with our other scumreads. She just feels like the puzzle piece that snaps the whole picture together. LLD is one of those reads that short of mod clears, belongs in contention until the game is over only as an acknowledgement that she is WAY capable of busing every single one of the fools unlucky enough to draw red with her right to the very end. Last episode's LLD-Scum sighting had her publicly obtain a dayvig and shoot her partner in the face with it for cred.

Farkran - The big thing we like about Farkran is how he's interacted with us given our speculations about his role, etc. The question this game is not "Does the neighborhood have scum in it" but "does the neighborhood have town in it?" Farkan's alignment hangs in the balance. I am assuming that the troubadour in scum-SS confers buffs and potentially protection to the pairing, and that might be worthy of using on an ally for the WIFOM and the gains. It would also be useful for assuring a townread from a townie, though!

catboi - the stacking damage role info sounds more like a scum ability to me, especially as compared to mara's SP steal. I empathize strongly with the anger/irritation about the role not being made clear enough. I also feel like scum learning they'd used those abilities suboptimally would be super-pissed and able to channel some of that salt into a "town" roleclaim. The way he went about it though, feels town to me. I'm extremely conflicted.

Murder On the Merits of Scummy

T3 - Playing to scum meta, basically. We had mild but growing concerns about Shea on day 1/2, and initially thought the replace-out could have been a town-replace, but T3's play has put that thought to rest. Cabd has been his mod AND played against scum-him recently.


Flea the Magician - severe lack of interaction/acknowledgement of most of the game happenings. day 1 wagon hijinks. mostly meaningless catchups (see first point) See also: Deathcurse Regigigas but then keeps being useless after meta.


Something_Smart - lack of thread health maintenance, didn't chime in re all the troubadour discussion with notsci and speculation about a troubadour neighborhood (in contrast to the neighbor), pushes on us have felt both tentative and opportunistic, like shopping our vulnerability to the rest of the players and being noiser about it when others were expressing concerns about us. neuter and spayhalf gutvibes. Something_Smart is this game's Dandelion Wine, and I'm going to let Dunn do here what he SHOULD have done to Cephrir and I.

Easier for me to track/remember if it is in my ISO.

[Ircher]

You will know later.

[Ircher]

go ahead, can't really hurt at this point. You're otherwise a goner anyway.

[Ircher]

VOTE: LLD

[Ircher]

VOTE: notscience

[Ircher]

go ahead, can't really hurt at this point. You're otherwise a goner anyway.

I mean, I'll wait until morph confirms it, but I think you're right.

Are you going to address this morph?

[Ircher]

i feel like SS has been pretty... helpful, all game? he chimes in on mech, he offers commentary, pretty sure he's been asking questions and trying to make things understandable, at one point i definitely compared him to a helpful college classmate you offer to buy coffee for.

Can you quote an instance? I don't remember him doing anything memorable this game.

Noraa replaces catboi.

Hi Noraa! Good luck catching up!

[Ircher]

Good luck on your exams Noraa.

P.S.: morph is confirmed town.

[Ircher]

It's not that; it's ending with no lim that is the concern.

[Ircher]

No, we claimed damage dealt. I'm sat on a scythe because I damn well know town will consume itself if everyone has an attack. also attacking me won't work out how you want it to.

This is scum; Flea is trying to fearmonger us out of attacking fae.

[Ircher]

VOTE: Flea

Flea -> Smart -> T3

[Ircher]

No because your last few walls have all been filler, not to mention my last comment.

[Ircher]

Like I can go through your last wall if you want and show how it is at least 90% filler.

[Ircher]

I think we need a full role claim from Flea and S_S

I agree.

[Ircher]

Then give me something you deem worth wrking with? Because frankly 90% of the damned game is filler.

You barely commented on morphs reads list other than disagreeing with your read and saying your reads are the opposite. How does it factor into your reads, and since you seem to disagree with it heavily, why? Which specific reads do you disagree with the most and how come?

[Ircher]

Also my walls are often containing filler, there's filler, theres fun, there's content, it's what I do.

because fuck me for trying to have some fucking fun in a game with 250+ pages while i'm dealing with external shit while this game yeets itself forward at 15 pages a night with practically nothing but fucking filler.

Don't get me wrong; you're allowed some filler, but when your last several posts amount to that, the only reasonable conclusion is that you are scum.

[Ircher]

Damage value? HP value?