Infernal Affairs - Game Over!

[Galron]

Internal affairs! Internal affairs! Something something something but you're pointing a gun at your friend so be prepared!
Internal affairs! Internal affairs! Something something something there's a city in the background so don't be scared!

i don't really have much to go off of other than the picture at the top so that's probably the best i got

locktown

VOTE: firebringer

How long was that bet for anyway.

[Galron]

how is it going galron

Í'm stoked for another town loss.

[Galron]

What's wrong with my I?

[Galron]

i would like all votes on galron to be transferred to me.

Galron how much selling those votes on urself for?

They're free for you babe.

[Galron]

I want to keep one though for this snowglobe I'm making.

[Galron]

i would like all votes on galron to be transferred to me.

Galron how much selling those votes on urself for?

no. galron maf. you're town.

Look at Andante cracking my code.

[Galron]

okay fine. don't vote me.

but once the election is over and u all see Galron didn't have what it takes to be the leader of this town.
Ohhhh you will be sorry....

So very sorry u didn't vote me. Because i had BIG IDEAS
I was thinking karaoke nights, poker tournaments, open bars.
It would have been great

I'm offering euchre and backgammon tourneys. And drugs.

[Galron]

VOTE: Tejate

I'm losing my grip.

Sorry FB

[Galron]

Sheeping 76

[Galron]

Oof. I should actually read.

UNVOTE:

[Galron]

Now I will vote you.

VOTE: Tejate

[Galron]

Actual vote. Just sortin' em out and sending them home.

[Galron]

I think you need sorted. You're not the only one, but need to start somewheres.

Here's the deal. In the past few large themes I've kind of taken a backseat at the beginning, and then no one pays attention to me on the back end. I'm tired of it, and I want to find town and/or scum myself rather than rely on others. So if you're town, it should come out. Right now I'm going to campaign for votes on you.

[Galron]

So I'd like to see some votes on Tejate. He seems a bit unsure about what to make of this.

[Galron]

Apologies again, FB, for stealing your wagon.

[Galron]

Tejate already seems town

Could be. Let's test that theory.

[Galron]

More votes on Tejate please.

[Galron]

This game is weird, it has like zero flow

Tag. You're it.

[Galron]

Let's kill someone.

[Galron]

Yeah, why not. Gather the votes.

[Galron]

Let's kill someone.

Are you volunteering?

Yeah, why not. Gather the votes.

Already there.

I enjoyed this sequence.
Galron channeling his inner firebringer

Soulmates for life.

[Galron]

Burn

[Galron]

FB, should I just bus here?

[Galron]

If so, which of us do I bus?

[Galron]

Oh shit. Wrong thread. Sorry guys.

[Galron]

ugh

popcorn

And I didn't think Nero would be hyperposting this game

[Galron]

I think I randomed a scum.

[Galron]

Sa'll good, I almost thought I did slip. I've been trying to get better at it, my brain is still hard wired to assume he/him.

Okay this is an honest statement. Prolly NAI but I do have empathy for Tejate here. As I type this it really doesn't make me want to unvote, but I get it.

[Galron]

Yes, it would.

VOTE: Frozen Angel

[Galron]

I'd say you'd pretty much right on that, though I guess you didn't see the same thing I did. I'm kind of struggling to really put it into words, but yes it was more the way his early game was rather than a specific post. It felt very natural to me, and too consistent to feel like something scum would try to do just to get townread for. I'm fairly sure scum could easily fake one or two posts like that, but keeping up what I'm seeing over an extended period like what I've observed is what I think would be difficult.

I'm usually a fair bit more confident in my D1 TRs than SRs, so if Scorpious is scum clearly I need more vigi practice.

[Galron]

Yes, it would.

VOTE: Frozen Angel

This shtick is getting old

Not to mention, hopping off a wagon on someone you scumread is pretty bad when we should be forming wagons

Spoiler:

[Galron]

What's a reverse traitor and why do you expect one?

[Galron]

What's a reverse traitor and why do you expect one?

Like a Traitor but with the alignments swapped.

So instead of a secret Mafia in the Town, it'd be a secret Town in the Mafia. Though actually now that I'm typing this out, it probably doesn't exist because of how wildly game-breaking it would be if they just outed the whole scumteam in their first post, unless the scumchat is anonymized somehow. Perhaps a Miller or something instead then, idk.

In any case, the reasoning was that the premise of Infernal Affairs (the movie) is that an undercover cop and a Triad member in the police force are struggling to outmaneuver and expose each other, without blowing their own respective cover. Traitor seemed like the natural way to implement such a concept.

Okay. I can see that I guess, but it does seem pretty unlikely.

[Galron]

Tejate wagon obv not going, and I'm not as sure about him as I was. Voting Frozen Angel was a decent thought when I was falling asleep, but not feeling it now. UNVOTE: Voting Keepter as a PL, meh. I could go either way I guess. I don't like 340 and would like to see a better answer there.

I dunno. Tejate still seems scummy to me.

[Galron]

I'm looking at his ISO

[Galron]

Reliance on self-meta

seems concerned about his appearance

Firebringer unvote because he didn't want a quickhammer when FB had 3 votes w/ 10 needed for hammer

magikhorse pass to Day 2? but not solidly town reading MH???

There does seem to be some solving going on though. And he's from a different site, so that's a factor I think needs consideration also. I've seen people come in from other sites and get mizzed because they just post differently than this site's meta.

I've been tunneling also, to the detriment of other reads.

I'm solidly on the fence.

I think that Firebringer unvote just pops out at me as something that scum would use as a bad excuse to get off a wagon. Almost tstbs. It could also just be someone unaware of what's going on in the game, but he's top-posting, so I doubt that's it.

And I'm still not understanding the magikhorse thing.

I'd like to see more pressure here I think.

VOTE: Tejate

[Galron]

I'm thinking Galron + Frogster at this point for the two most likely scum. I did check, Frogster is indeed posting in another game at the moment.

Isn’t there some sort of “gentleman’s agreement” to not use site mechanics?

There's a gentleman's rule not to judge people based off of IRL things. If someone says "I hurt my tailbone, give me a while to go to the doctor" like I did today, nobody should really argue with that, it's more than likely true regardless of alignment. In general anything related to real life should be considered as undeniable truth, and inevitably people will prioritize their life over the game.

The "Ellitell" (as it's called when a player is active in other games and ignores another) is a lot more arguable, and I'm not sure if there's an actual consensus regarding whether it counts as talking about other ongoing games or not. It's still a meta tell at any rate, and like other meta reasonings should have other support to go with it (and others have indeed given these explanations already on why their behavior was otherwise suspect).

This Ellitell is just the icing, the cake is already on the plate here.

It's a bullshit tell.

[Galron]

Andante, you cop to fluff posting pages 1-5 but then deny it? I don't think that's AI but why?

Also, you're scum reading me for awkwardly unvoting scum and awkwardly revoting scum?

____________

The "I've got a scum case I'm working on but not posting'" is bad and I'll hammer that wagon.

[Galron]

Why is anyone taking anything N_M puts down seriously? Both of his reads lists are just opportunities for him to play with crayons, or if he's scum to make those of you who read his posts as genuine as WIFOM. Please don't take him seriously. If you want to policy him, fine, that's fine. But don't think he's trying to help anyone win a game. He may not even know what his own alignment is, let alone if scum who his buddies are.

The Frogster reads list, if he's scum, look for Rad Rat as a partner (the scum lean), and Tejate and and Magik as green. Also one of his TRs would likely be a buddy.

Andante, toog and tejate are voting me for what reason(s) exactly? Andante can't seem to make up her mind, so prob town. toog I have no read on. Tejate I still scum read for reasons previously stated, and his content since hasn't been great although it's plentiful. And again it could just be a site meta difference because I get the same feel from Magik, but I can't point to anything particular to scum read him for other than an overall feeling.

Can't tell if Frogster is putting in work as town or scum, but he did come back, and he did lay out a case, however solid or not that case may be.

[Galron]

No clue why Frozen Angel is so high in that N_M readslist when they only have 3 prodges to their ISO and no actual game content. That read should be null at best. Meatworld problems happen and I can get that much at least, but there's just nothing there to read into. Similarly don't understand what he's seeing in Hell to make him this townie.

I can understand the RR read though. For as short as that ISO is it does appear to be putting in a little effort towards solving.

You've been told about this by different people. You have no excuse any longer.

[Galron]

No clue why Frozen Angel is so high in that N_M readslist when they only have 3 prodges to their ISO and no actual game content. That read should be null at best. Meatworld problems happen and I can get that much at least, but there's just nothing there to read into. Similarly don't understand what he's seeing in Hell to make him this townie.

I can understand the RR read though. For as short as that ISO is it does appear to be putting in a little effort towards solving.

You've been told about this by different people. You have no excuse any longer.

I've been told what exactly? Don't beat around the bush like this.

Believing anything that Not_Mafia posts in early game is genuine.

***********************

If there's a vig, please take out Frozen Angel. She's just a distraction at this point.

[Galron]

Intent to E-1 in 24 hours.

[Galron]

The last three posts are ridiculous. And Not_Mafia is not än it. Check out his pronouns.

[Galron]

UNVOTE:

[Galron]

There were people who wanted to talk about some things. Let them.

[Galron]

VOTE: Tejate/vote]

My day 1 read.

[Galron]

I don' tknow. I haven't read it yet.

[Galron]

Just kill me then.

[Galron]

jesus. every game you scum read me. every single game.

[Galron]

I really don't give a shit. Just kill me.

[Galron]

All this is is a bunch of people yelling at each other without listening.

[Galron]

VOTE: Tejate

[Galron]

@Firebringer, MagikHorse, Scorpious, Save the Dragons Is there anything stopping you from voting Nero right now?

yes

Do you still town read Tejate?

[Galron]

Actually anyone who town reads Tejate should say why.

[Galron]

I haven't really scum read Firebringer.

[Galron]

Giving support for this. As promised, I'll support hellbooks (and Magik) votes.

That's my elaboration.

do you not have any confidence in your own reads? do you have opinions about who is scum ?? whats with this?

I am notoriously bad at this game. There are occasions where I display moments of brilliance, but generally speaking, I wing it. I've adopted a more supportive play style over the years where I find players I town read and try to work with them.

In all honesty, part of the reason I am bad though is because I start to skim when I get bored of the conversations or start seeing giant walls.

Another reason is that I'm just not an aggressive person. I don't even place RVS votes. I just idle until I see something I might be able to work with.

Finding town has often been easier than finding scum for me, so I go that route, and try to figure who "can't" (or less likely to be) be partnered with flipped scum and work from there.

Geez. I could have written this post. Word for word.

Mood.

[Galron]

By the way, @mod can we get a VC please?

i told him... he should have saved the clips

who r u interested in hellbooks

this question is actually like hard as heck because i feel like im in the upside down world but here is one answer
VOTE: save the dragons

i also want andante to elaborate on what she thinks about other slots than tejate.
toog seems to be looking to give up independent scumhunting.
galron is literally going joker mode and i have no idea how to sort this sort of limbait.
scorpious could be scum for sure
i think the keeper's only thing that made me lean either way was some gimmick frustration that i read as town but still null (big part of this is that i tend to skip faer posts)
i still feel like tej is scum. frog picking him as a partner and then steering totally clear of him stinks. but idk what to make of the double magikhorse/andante chainsaw there
i think you are town with your d2 play

This is good. Couple of things, I think Andante scum reads me; I think toogs is just a bit lost and expressing a little frustration; with galron wysiwyg; the thing about the double magikhorse/andante chainsaw I want to explore more because my scum read on Tejate is starting to waver, but I'm not going to rely on a few things I found scummy on Day 1 for the entire game to scum read him.

[Galron]

By the way, @mod can we get a VC please?

i told him... he should have saved the clips

who r u interested in hellbooks

this question is actually like hard as heck because i feel like im in the upside down world but here is one answer
VOTE: save the dragons

i also want andante to elaborate on what she thinks about other slots than tejate.
toog seems to be looking to give up independent scumhunting.
galron is literally going joker mode and i have no idea how to sort this sort of limbait.
scorpious could be scum for sure
i think the keeper's only thing that made me lean either way was some gimmick frustration that i read as town but still null (big part of this is that i tend to skip faer posts)
i still feel like tej is scum. frog picking him as a partner and then steering totally clear of him stinks. but idk what to make of the double magikhorse/andante chainsaw there
i think you are town with your d2 play

This is good. Couple of things, I think Andante scum reads me; I think toogs is just a bit lost and expressing a little frustration; with galron wysiwyg; the thing about the double magikhorse/andante chainsaw I want to explore more because my scum read on Tejate is starting to waver, but I'm not going to rely on a few things I found scummy on Day 1 for the entire game to scum read him.

This feels like you just kinda mashed together some thoughts trying to make it look like actual insight into the game. Nope. I don’t like it.

.. shrug .. I was addressing the points as they were listed. At least the ones I had thoughts on. Any questions about that? Yes, they are individual points. Rather than a list I put them in paragraph form. I don't generally think in lists.

[Galron]

Giving support for this. As promised, I'll support hellbooks (and Magik) votes.

That's my elaboration.

do you not have any confidence in your own reads? do you have opinions about who is scum ?? whats with this?

I am notoriously bad at this game. There are occasions where I display moments of brilliance, but generally speaking, I wing it. I've adopted a more supportive play style over the years where I find players I town read and try to work with them.

In all honesty, part of the reason I am bad though is because I start to skim when I get bored of the conversations or start seeing giant walls.

Another reason is that I'm just not an aggressive person. I don't even place RVS votes. I just idle until I see something I might be able to work with.

Finding town has often been easier than finding scum for me, so I go that route, and try to figure who "can't" (or less likely to be) be partnered with flipped scum and work from there.

Geez. I could have written this post. Word for word.

Mood.

I

have

written this post over the years. Mostly as scum. Reasons to not have any cases or any real accountability on anything.

So you want to toss shade my way because why exactly?

[Galron]

You have two scum sets here: Andante, Galron, and Keeper and STD, Toogaloo, Not_Mafia. What distinguishes one from the other? Or am I misreading something?

[Galron]

I'm quite aware of your opinions Nero, as much as I disagree with them. All that being said, I'm not really seeing many scum prospects on the wagon myself.

Removing the three dead town from the wagon plus myself (both for being Frog's immediate target and for knowing my own role PM), and then strip away my townreads (Tej/Scorp) and Hell for being the one to start it going and not backing off when it grew large and I'm left with STD/Toog/N_M as I said a couple posts ago. N_M is the eternal wildcard that is never townie nor scummy, my meta dive into STD hasn't yielded much scum prospects through meta and if anything shows this sort of play is fairly normal, and Toog has improved for Day 2 as I mentioned earlier. I'm left with a wagon that looks mostly pure, maybe 1 scum in the quieter part of the pool at best assuming I trust in my reads. I don't have much reason to assume 2 scum there myself.

Looking back at Fire he was saying 2 scum on the wagon because it seemed "orchestrated to end the day quickly" (or something very similar to that), but Scum!Scorp alone could cause that regardless of N_M's role. N_M would hammer regardless of alignment every time there, it's one thing he's known for doing. If N_M is as passive in scumchats as he is in the main game I really doubt it was organized between him and another scum just due to a lack of general communication as well.

If there's anything else that Fire's scumreading Scorp for, please point it out. I've either missed it or he hasn't said it yet.

You have two scum sets here: Andante, Galron, and Keeper and STD, Toogaloo, Not_Mafia. What distinguishes one from the other? Or am I misreading something?

[Galron]

Andante/Galron/Keeper are the ones I'm actively scumreading the most at this time

curious: what do you think of this interaction:

I still think frog v galron was maf v maf.... there's no way this is town galron.. all game galron has been "pretending to be maf" or whatever he's doing...

andante says this.

Couple of things, I think Andante scum reads me

then later, galron reminds me that andante scumreads him for.... what reason exactly? idk what to make of it so would like ur input -- how does it fit in your solve?
and then after that, andante doesnt bring up galron again.

IDK, andante reads town to me. i feel like theres environmental storytelling of her sort of thinking about the game and working through a solve. thats genuinely the best way i can explain it, like it seems like something thats hard to fake. but its weird af that galron was like "dont forget, she scumreads me!" like, "im being helpful so can i be town?" idk

jfc

[Galron]

What is the purpose of 1210 and 1211?

And to Scorp, I forgot just how picky Mafia players were at casual wording. Regardless, take a look at Hell's D1. They were pushing towards the Frog wagon half-heartedly, but didn't at all try to commit to it one way or another.

Just getting a second take that’s all. Just trying to sort the most verbose player so far. Answers to the above would be much appreciated.

Are you asking me to address 1213?

[Galron]

Is there anyone that feels particularly strongly on either hellbooks or Save The Dragons being town?

I don't have particularly strong opinions on either, but see them as where this vote is likely coming down to.

Interested on hearing the "WHYs" behind those reads.

I'm not particularly hip on either, but I haven't seen a compelling case.

[Galron]

Is there anyone that feels particularly strongly on either hellbooks or Save The Dragons being town?

I don't have particularly strong opinions on either, but see them as where this vote is likely coming down to.

Interested on hearing the "WHYs" behind those reads.

I'm not particularly hip on either, but I haven't seen a compelling case.

STD was clear he was losing interest.

Why would that be AI though? There have been games where I've lost interest because of various things, hyperposting, unpleasant player(s), real life.

[Galron]

IDK, andante reads town to me. i feel like theres environmental storytelling of her sort of thinking about the game and working through a solve

reading through Andante's ISO a second time, I dont feel as confident as I did in this yesterday but I said I would elaborate...

one thing that caught my eye yesterday was how she constructed this "one scum in tej/magik" dichotomy D1, then on D2, declared tej to be town and then later, magik to be scum (which she provided very little justification towards). I feel like that's a conclusion that town has a good chance of coming to based on like, operative bias of not having the hidden info and only working inside one's own logic palace. I think thats the best way I can describe what I was thinking yesterday. but the reason I'm not as confident about this is that theres a thin line between town being in a tunnel and scum coming up with post hoc justifications for a mislim.

that being said... I think scum doesn't try and go for a magikhorse mislim today... there's low hanging fruit that would be more up scum's alley. which brings me to:

I see a potential for Andante's galron push to be in bad faith. I think that frog/galron wagon movement D1 isnt indicative of alignment and could just fall from general circumstances. At least *I* dont find it that convincing because I dont think scum has that much broad influence on wagon movements in big games as people think (i dont have the stats to back it up obv i havent played big games in so long). thats just my intuition though. But I think the fact that Andante stopped commiting to this push and even straight up FORGOT about it in her reads summary in 1161 is definitely interesting and not behavior i would expect from scu pushing a miselim

Reading this made me like Dragons's vote here. there is no way saying this about me doesn't stem from TMI knowing I'm town. "galron push is probably bad faith" uh excuse me?? Galron spent all of day 1 pretending to be maf, how is that even bad faith??

VOTE: Magik
I'm going to this SR, and hellbooks is most likely a partner

That's the second or third time you've mentioned me pretending to be maf. First, other than joking, where was I doing that; and secondly, how do you know that I was pretending?

[Galron]

VOTE: Andante

That just seems like Andante TMI'd me town.

[Galron]

Spoiler:

FB, should I just bus here?

Do you plan on doing anything except pretending to be maf and asking for votes? Cause honestly, Keeper is looking more like town than you

So a hardclaimed gimmick alt is overusing thier gimmick after admitting that they'll be mostly gimmick playing. Yeah, not buying this thought procsess.

So u 100% think that keeper intended to play this game without giving any thoughts and just gimmick post instead of use gimmick as a way to deliver those thoughts in unique style.

I mean, I'd agree with it looking like Keeper has no intent to actually play thus far, but keeper is not alone. I have 4 names of people doing nothing/not even making an effort to play, so I have no interest in pushing this "GIMMICK = MAF" thing right now

I don't think merely being a gimmick alt playing like a gimmick alt is really unusual? Sure, +scum points for the general lack of content, but if content is really what you're worried about they have been responding to questions so why not ask them what they think about a few things to try and pull some out?

They also said they do plan to do some solving in 214, so I don't even get why you claim they said they didn't intent to play the game.

I definitely agree with this, if you have an issue with keeper, why not try interacting with them?

Eh I guess Nero is town after all.

You got Nero town from that? Please share more on that... I'm not seeing that from that exchange

Eh I guess Nero is town after all.

Could I ask what in particular you think looks town about these recent posts?

General aggro energy

lol jk, ok Tejate having the same question as me... very good look for Tejate!!! uhhh I didn't really feel aggro energy there tbh

Could I ask what in particular you think looks town about these recent posts?

Whats scummy about my recent posts?

if they are they why unvote?

if they aren't why are you questioning them?

I mean, I know you're not asking me this, but I did not view your posts as towny there, not saying they're scummy, but they definitely did not scream "TOWN" so that's where I'm confused why they made cat declare you as town, and now you defending that they were towny posts is like... what?? idk

I mean, let's be serious, Keeper isn't making it to end game or anything but I absolutely do think that the reasoning Fire has presented for voting Keeper is erroneous and is thus likely scum that's just laying down an ez vote.

Yes, I agree with this. Not certain I'd declare keeper isn't going to endgame yet, but Fire is trying to take the easy path, avoid as little conflict/attention possible.. definitely not feeling towny

Yes, it would.

VOTE: Frozen Angel

This shtick is getting old

Not to mention, hopping off a wagon on someone you scumread is pretty bad when we should be forming wagons

I'm pretty certain Galron is actively playing against town, yes, it is HIGHLY annoying

Tejate wagon obv not going, and I'm not as sure about him as I was. Voting Frozen Angel was a decent thought when I was falling asleep, but not feeling it now. UNVOTE: Voting Keepter as a PL, meh. I could go either way I guess. I don't like 340 and would like to see a better answer there.

I dunno. Tejate still seems scummy to me.

So if you have passion for a Tejate lim.. why have I seen 0 conviction for it in your lines? instead you're all "haha I'm maf" like, do you wonder why no one is listening to you? cause I think it's very obvious... go ISO yourself, and look at what we're dealing with


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Alright, should be pretty caught up. Tejate is not maf, and I think Galron is a better lim, I have a handful I'd be ok voting, but I will not vote out Tejate here
UNVOTE: Tejate

I'm working on not being a hyperposter, so yall get walls! Enjoy!


I feel pretty good about a Galron lim, like, the only other "wagon" I'd vote would be Frogster, other than that, I'm not a fan of anywhere else the votes are

VOTE: Galron

well we're at 700 posts, you don't suspect anyone who has posted? just frogs with nothing and galron pretending to be maf?

I still think frog v galron was maf v maf.... there's no way this is town galron.. all game galron has been "pretending to be maf" or whatever he's doing...

IDK, andante reads town to me. i feel like theres environmental storytelling of her sort of thinking about the game and working through a solve

reading through Andante's ISO a second time, I dont feel as confident as I did in this yesterday but I said I would elaborate...

one thing that caught my eye yesterday was how she constructed this "one scum in tej/magik" dichotomy D1, then on D2, declared tej to be town and then later, magik to be scum (which she provided very little justification towards). I feel like that's a conclusion that town has a good chance of coming to based on like, operative bias of not having the hidden info and only working inside one's own logic palace. I think thats the best way I can describe what I was thinking yesterday. but the reason I'm not as confident about this is that theres a thin line between town being in a tunnel and scum coming up with post hoc justifications for a mislim.

that being said... I think scum doesn't try and go for a magikhorse mislim today... there's low hanging fruit that would be more up scum's alley. which brings me to:

I see a potential for Andante's galron push to be in bad faith. I think that frog/galron wagon movement D1 isnt indicative of alignment and could just fall from general circumstances. At least *I* dont find it that convincing because I dont think scum has that much broad influence on wagon movements in big games as people think (i dont have the stats to back it up obv i havent played big games in so long). thats just my intuition though. But I think the fact that Andante stopped commiting to this push and even straight up FORGOT about it in her reads summary in 1161 is definitely interesting and not behavior i would expect from scu pushing a miselim

Reading this made me like Dragons's vote here. there is no way saying this about me doesn't stem from TMI knowing I'm town. "galron push is probably bad faith" uh excuse me?? Galron spent all of day 1 pretending to be maf, how is that even bad faith??

VOTE: Magik
I'm going to this SR, and hellbooks is most likely a partner

I don't know why I didn't pick up on this earlier, but she's been saying I'm pretending the entire game.

[Galron]

It's not an impressive push, I agree. It's fairly weak. But that use of the word pretend just smacks of TMI.

[Galron]

UNVOTE:

The claim sounds credible.