Not Quite Normal Multiball II (Game Over)

[Klick]

VOTE: catboi
Serious vote

[Klick]

i don't like how quickly you put Klick at E-10

that's too close to getting speed limmed for me

With the scum split up into two factions, they are unable to coordinate, and therefore speedlims are objectively better than they are in a more standard game setup because they are more likely to hit scum and less likely to be derailed. I think, based on that, that all of our eliminations should be speedlims.

Sweet
Join me on catboi then

[Klick]

Being active in general is better than being a lurker. So I am giving you the benefit of the doubt for now. I knew you were joking.

Hm. But you didn't say that you were townreading me for being active. You said you were townreading me for trying to raise my profile. Scum are more likely to be the ones trying to raise their profile. Town just do it naturally. Why did you phrase it that way?

Sweet
Join me on catboi then

The one experience I have with you is you having very good reads (and also, he didn't respond to me when I said hi to him), so I'm tempted. If it's a serious vote, can you explain the reason?

Being active in general is better than being a lurker. So I am giving you the benefit of the doubt for now. I knew you were joking.

Hm. But you didn't say that you were townreading me for being active. You said you were townreading me for trying to raise my profile. Scum are more likely to be the ones trying to raise their profile. Town just do it naturally. Why did you phrase it that way?

I disagree about scum raising their profile. Some may do that, but a majority seem to avoid confrontation in general in my experience. Weather players are purposefully trying to raise their profile or "doing it naturally" isn't really the issue as far as I am concerned this early in the game. Maybe later on you can nitpick someone's psycological profile.

You're prob town.
UNVOTE:

I had the same impulse

[Klick]

Sweet
Join me on catboi then

The one experience I have with you is you having very good reads (and also, he didn't respond to me when I said hi to him), so I'm tempted. If it's a serious vote, can you explain the reason?

Oh sweet! I vaguely remember your username as being pleasant to play with? Gonna have to go back and look at the game we were in at some point, a boost of confidence is always nice

catboi's entrance feels very... limp? Make a few small comments, kinda game related but noncommittal, so you can't say he's not talking about the game but he's not actually moving anything forward. It's what I'd post if I wanted to start the game without eyes on me.

PEdit: yes, sorry, posting on phone, it likes to glitch

[Klick]

Hi kondi~

so, here's a question: what exactly are you expecting out of page 1 posting?

I'll always be disappointed that my first mark on this site was from when I was 13. Not that I'm any better now <3

I don't really know how to answer that tbh! Lots of people do lots of different things early. Some people are gonna mess about, some people are gonna try to start something useful, and some people are gonna try to avoid getting pressure.
How about you?

[Klick]

In general in the early game I joke around and banter, maybe float a serious read if something strikes my fancy, but otherwise hang back and observe until I find things more readable.

Which is why it came across as strange that you're accusing me of being "noncommittal" and "not advancing the game", because...I'm not sure what you're expecting on page 1?

When I read your posts it feels like you

want

me to think you're advancing things though.

[Klick]

Compared to everything else in the thread, yeah.

PEdit hiii Menalque

[Klick]

That's what I like to see, E-10 already let's go

[Klick]

Awww shit and FL is here too? So many tasty options

Nice to see you around again Klick! How’s everything? (I will except my “no reading things that happen while I’m asleep” rule to check the answer, promise )

Not too bad. New job training as an apprentice at a nursery. It's intense, but also satisfying in a way. And it's the same nursery that the kids go to, so it's nice getting to see them occasionally in the middle of the work day.
How're you?

[Klick]

Compared to everything else in the thread, yeah.

PEdit hiii Menalque

*shrug*

Feels like a serious reach to me.

Oh for sure. But then, what do you expect? It's only page 5 now.

[Klick]

Compared to everything else in the thread, yeah.

PEdit hiii Menalque

So you voted catboi because he stood out among those who had posted?

That's a decent way of summarising it, yeah. He stood out, it doesn't seem like he meant to.

[Klick]

The main impression I get from catboi's latest posts is that he's actually rather uncomfortable with the votes on him

[Klick]

Only did a cursory skim of his scumgame in a mini normal, but I think butterchurn is town here.

I feel the same way, having seen his towngame and his scumgame.

[Klick]

VOTE: bnuuy

[Klick]

i like wallflower for town

Can you explain this one to me?

[Klick]

i like wallflower for town

Can you explain this one to me?

142 i like the interpretation of catboi's post as something that feels like it came from someone trying to solve catboi more than someone trying to condemn catboi

Hmm. I can kinda see it. The post feels really comfortable to make at least, the thoughts are probably genuine even if Wallflower is scum.

PEdit: FL tell us all your secrets pls

[Klick]

Either way, we need BLAST Norwee.

This seems rather serious for this point in the game.

VOTE: Sword of Ducks

This seems rather superficial for this point in the game.
PEdit yeah what they said

[Klick]

So Titus, what do you think of catboi and his wagon

[Klick]

i'd also probably turbo lim mastina in a heartbeat at this point

Thank you
My initial reaction to mastina's opener was 'well there's a scum' but then no one else seemed to think this

VOTE: mastina

[Klick]

i'd also probably turbo lim mastina in a heartbeat at this point

I'm curious, why is that? I thought some of her reads seemed a little strange, but nothing that was clearly suspicious.

i think part of me doesn't want to believe she's a beloved princess but that might be outguessing the mod

my gut is wary of mastina because i've seen her as scum act similar

i think she's actually town but i just said that because i want to be wary

oh

[Klick]

i'd also probably turbo lim mastina in a heartbeat at this point

I'm curious, why is that? I thought some of her reads seemed a little strange, but nothing that was clearly suspicious.

i think part of me doesn't want to believe she's a beloved princess but that might be outguessing the mod

my gut is wary of mastina because i've seen her as scum act similar

i think she's actually town but i just said that because i want to be wary

Mena idk if you're in a good mood this game, or if your playstyle has changed since we last played together, or what
But you feel pretty towny so far just based on vibes

[Klick]

Why do things keep getting quoted ugh

[Klick]

The context here is that catboi had picked up a few very pile-on type votes, following the push that Klick had started.

I think this post feels, in a way, like it is just adding fuel to the fire to try to keep the wagon going.

What's interesting, then, is how they vote bnuuy shortly after. I would like to know from Klick: Did something change between 135 and 155 for you, to make you no longer interested in continuing to add pressure onto the catboi wagon?

The bolded isn't quite where my head was at. By 135 I was already pretty satisfied with the progression of the wagon, and the post was more me trying to interpret something useful out of catboi's reaction to pressure. I don't really feel like I got that tbh, at least not yet, but I'm hoping this game start will be useful to look back at later.

I've sort of lost the plot of the game since around that time though, and I want to dive back in in a few hours when the kids are in bed

[Klick]

UNVOTE:
Alright time to lock down and get into this nonsense

People I don't want to eliminate today

butterchurn
Nashville Dreams
Save The Dragons
Wallflower
Well Done
Menalque

People I think are fairly likely to flip scum

Toogeloo
catboi
MalcolmTucker
bnuuy

That's my preliminary assessment from kinda sorta skimming for the past two days. I want better reads than this.

I have to remind myself that this game has 9 (!) scum in it, and therefore there is going to be a lot of nonsense on any given page

[Klick]

This is not scum Sword.

Spoiler:

VOTE: NorwegianboyEE

bad feeling bad feeling!

VOTE: NorwegianboyEE

bad feeling bad feeling!

Can you elaborate

gut read, but I have nothing to trust except my gut this game

why is that specific to this game?

Because of my role, of course, obviously, how could you not have guessed/assumed this on your own?

what posts pinged you

I don't think I can tie it to a post/posts - it's moreso a general feeling.

I don't think I can tie it to a post/posts - it's moreso a general feeling.

You're very clearly a new player and i think you are having a hard time navigating in this environment. Hence you have a gutread on me that says scum.
That said, i do townread you and don't think you are being fake.

I'm not wholly a new player, it's more that I'm interacting with people I don't know from prior experience / haven't played on this site before.

I don't think I can tie it to a post/posts - it's moreso a general feeling.

You're very clearly a new player and i think you are having a hard time navigating in this environment. Hence you have a gutread on me that says scum.
That said, i do townread you and don't think you are being fake.

I'm not wholly a new player, it's more that I'm interacting with people I don't know from prior experience / haven't played on this site before.

How much previous experience?

One game town with the same exact role, two games I played poorly as mafia, and one

fantastic

role madness game as a serial killer.

One game town with the same exact role, two games I played poorly as mafia, and one

fantastic

role madness game as a serial killer.

Just to be clear, you're claiming you've rolled vanilla townie in this game?

Yep.

One game town with the same exact role, two games I played poorly as mafia, and one

fantastic

role madness game as a serial killer.

Just to be clear, you're claiming you've rolled vanilla townie in this game?

Yep.

And if you think this is a lie, there are 2 scenarios where I can roll no ability and have no way to help myself:

1. I'm an indie survivor, because I need to live to win, but can't help myself out in any way/shape/form,
2. I'm a malefactor and my goal is to screw over the town, but if I was, then I'd no longer have nothing to hide like this!

(there are probably more roles where no ability can help/hinder, these are the two that come to mind for me where I can't further my wincon on my own)

Like, Sword, if you're scum here, you win, because i think that's how obviously town you are. even moreso now than when i called you town earlier.

When I'm scum I know I have something to hide. I feel the weight of the truth. I feel horrible for lying to honest people.

Here I have nothing to hide. I feel free.

hmmm UNVOTE: NorwegianboyEE

okay what do I have to say to stir the pot what will get us somewhere

I quite like this as reasoning for SoD being town actually

[Klick]

Menalque, you're here, hello!
How do you motivate yourself to sift through 50+ pages of stuff that may or may not be relevant or helpful?

[Klick]

I have to remind myself that this game has 9 (!) scum in it, and therefore there is going to be a lot of nonsense on any given page

Where are you getting this from? First game had 7 scum in it with a similar number of players.

'The faction sizes are 14:4:4:1'
In Post 1

[Klick]

VOTE: bnuuy
Fine with that

[Klick]

Menalque, you're here, hello!
How do you motivate yourself to sift through 50+ pages of stuff that may or may not be relevant or helpful?

I uh

Mostly don’t nowadays

I just read ISOs from people I like or who draw my attention and then read the spicy bits that stand out from reading the ISOs

I should possibly let my standards drop for my own full understanding of a game of this size. I normally make my reads based on strong feelings about one or two particular things a player does anyway, so a full game dissection shouldn't be needed for that.

[Klick]

Monkey's posting doesn't feel like scum posting with any sort of discernable goal - I'd resist a Monkey lim I think.

[Klick]

The drama also was at least partially why I didn't bother getting deep into this last night, so I can relate

[Klick]

Spoiler:

Why are people complaining about the number of pages (and also complaining about people complaining about the number of pages) and not the fact that there seems to be a number of posts dedicated to arguing what “mafia miller” means?

Does it get any better?

I have to say I did not expect anyone to answer my question in good faith. Y’all are the best. <3

Now I’m up to the BP stuff and it seems like we’re still talking about it but I’m probably going to be with Menalque on this one.

That was a different page

I keep trying to read through the last 10 or so pages but right now my eyes glaze over and I keep forgetting what it is I'm even doing (I am quite tired rn!!) I do have some thoughts, such as being okay with the Malcolm wagon, but also that Malcolm's response to it will be telling. I also agree with catboi re: the MonkeyMan wagon whilst also remaining suspicious of catboi (yes, I cannot seem to just let it go) so that's probably going to need some sorting out at some point, but right right now that's just too complex a thought so it will just be staying there as mafia soup in my mind.

I think Malcolm is town

do you actually know that or is this just a hypothetical of if you told me that?

The first.

okay second question: is this like

knowing

knowledge, or "I really don't think it sounds like koba" knowledge?

I think Malcolm is town

yeah, malc is old news, you should hop on the hot new bnuuy wagon!

I was indeed a bit disappointed when I caught up and realised that my opinion was not that ~different~ anymore.

I still think catboi is scum though. I have a theory regarding their play that I want to sit a bit on before talking about because I need more of a sample size, but it reassures me that Tracer appears to be thinking similarly.

VOTE: NorwegianboyEE

bad feeling bad feeling!

Can you elaborate

gut read, but I have nothing to trust except my gut this game

why is that specific to this game?

my scum list currently is:

Catboi
Mena
Flavor Leaf

I had 3 other scumreads but I forgot them because shit for memory

probably means they weren't worth remembering

I like those three though. Catboi is the only real scumread for me but Mena and FL are explicitly not-townreads.

I would say Wallflower’s last comment is scummier than TB, though, for the piggyback adding momentum to a townie.

If either of them were scum, I’d base it more on luck than TB actually catching them, though

What if I'm the townie and Tracer is just sheeping me, huh?

but Mena and FL are explicitly not-townreads.

oh, cool, could you expand pls?

What is there to expand on? I don't think anything you've done so far is particularly town-indicative. Do you disagree?

saying that papa leaf is not good at scum is just

sort of baffling

this post is odd given the not-so-serious manner of Tracer's post

but Mena and FL are explicitly not-townreads.

oh, cool, could you expand pls?

What is there to expand on? I don't think anything you've done so far is particularly town-indicative. Do you disagree?

I mean, a bit, given that you and I have never played before

I think I'm being fairly pro-active about pushing the game forward so far having led/banded together support for not one but two wagons, and taken a hand in steering it away from boring-as-shit mechtalk

plus people who have never played with me before tend to townlean me at least when I'm being mostly clear about why I think what I think and not deliberately and arse-ily evasive so it was kinda weird to see you call me out as an "explicit non-townread"

That sort of stuff all seems like things you would do as scum in an effort to be read as town though?

I do want to make clear that even though I don't townread you, I have enjoyed your posts and I agree that it feels like you have had a positive impact on the gamestate. But I'm not really sure that you would play differently as scum.

and he should've jumped you for it

but he didn't

so probly scum together

Do you think Menalque's posting re: you having a problem with him was +town?

I agree that Catboi's play has been very ~off~, but I'm not as sure that they're scum together.

Flavor Leaf is more interested in talking about how he's scum!god than actually catching scum in this game.

Therefore

Flavor Leaf is scum

I don't think this is alignment-indicative tbh

lol

I am not sure on Tracer's alignment here, but a few of us were in a Micro Normal where I know at least in my case I let a negative perception of Tracer wrongly influence a scumread there.

I am seeing some similarities in read leaps and responses here which make me hesitant to see Tracer as scum, especially since there are not enough people here who played the micro game for playing in the same way to be worth it.

PEdit: I've changed my mind. I have a cautious townread on Tracer.

I can't wait for Town Paragon Flavor Leaf to show up on Day 4 with the solution

Day 3?

I think you’re all good as town and as scum.

Meanwhile I have a 0% win rate on this site and I think you should sheep me on catboi

Okay, this is clearly personal, and regardless of your alignment, I think you should stop.

I pushed mena/catboi as a team and voted catboi

mena's been trying to make this shit personal for ???? reasons

I've been trying to get him to explain his townread of catboi

he continues not to.

so like lol sure

keep pretending we're the same

we're not.

I think if you come back to the thread later and read your own posts with a level head you will see that you were the one taking shots at people and making things personal and generally being antagonistic. But you probably already know that, and this was probably intentional to cause chaos and rile things up, so it probably doesn't matter what I say anyway.

I think it’s a tempting idea to think that someone is intentionally causing chaos like this, but I have wrongly thought this about Tracer before.

well that was a fun series of posts to catch up on

I don't really see the case on Malcolm as scum, I think he looks pretty townie to me for now.

No real opinion on any of these meta reads, these do nothing for me, I know none of you. I'm sure you're all very cool and good at mafia. However I do think looking over Flavor Leaf's iso, a lot of his posting has been kind of reactive and/or meta discussion, which is pinging me a little bit.

I kind of see the point on monkeyman that he's acting

weird

but not necessarily scummy. Not sure he's my top suspicion at the moment.

pedit: originally I moved my vote to flavor leaf here but then he made a couple nice posts with detailed reasoning and now I'm conflicted again.

I'm not really sure I see the case on catboi as scum, to be honest. I suppose it's possible but

nothing about their posts is really particularly sticking out to me.

Honestly, you'll have to forgive me for being a bit all-over-the-place at the moment, this is the first time I've played a multiball game

or

a hydra game, so it's a bit tricky to read people in ways I'm used to and it's kind of a lot to deal with, haha. I'm sure I'll get the hang of it with time though.

One game town with the same exact role, two games I played poorly as mafia, and one

fantastic

role madness game as a serial killer.

Just to be clear, you're claiming you've rolled vanilla townie in this game?

And herein lies one of the issues

Does it look like this person actually cares about trying to solve the game? half her poosts are throwaway filler responses to other people, she's just riding off other people's reads, there's no evidence to show she has any thoughts on the game that are her own.

Hmm.
This kinda makes me townread catboi.

[Klick]

To expand: I think catboi is scumhunting generally in 1208, using tactics that specifically don't work because this game is multiball. Catboi doesn't seem fully conscious of the fact that scum are trying to scumhunt in this game, and that's consistent with his lack of care to other aspects of the setup. I think this is a really weird mindset for catboi!scum to be in.

[Klick]

Sword of Ducks
Save The Dragons
Tracer Bullet
MonkeyMan576
Bnuuy

Malcolm
WallFlower
Menalque
Norwegian
Cat Scratch Fever

Toogeloo
MegaZumarill
Enchant
Butterchurn
Tictac
Klick

The Keeper
Well Done
Nashville Dreams

Mastina
cassowary

catboi

I am vibing with this reads list

[Klick]

@Well Done - You wanna act like this is anything different when I know for a fact Dunnstral knows I play this exact way as town. Catboi is doing the same exact thing with the "pushing whoever pushes them" but you chose to ignore it.


Here's where I stand right now.

If you want to act like I haven't given my thoughts on nearly every single slot on the game bar a few, like The Keeper or your slot, it's because I was still needing something more concrete for the both of you.

I would say this is your first major point of action during this.

The fact that it came after my Mastina push and not my Catboi one makes me think there's merit in Mastina/Well Done being on one scum team, then Catboi/Cassowary on the other.

The rest is probably somewhere in my town reads because I don't expect to be correct on Day 1 with all my town reads, i fall in pockets early, and that's okay.

Sword of Ducks
Save The Dragons
Tracer Bullet
MonkeyMan576
Bnuuy

Malcolm
WallFlower
Menalque
Norwegian
Cat Scratch Fever

Toogeloo
MegaZumarill
Enchant
Butterchurn
Tictac
Klick

The Keeper
Well Done
Nashville Dreams

Mastina
cassowary

catboi

Or at least, the town side of it

[Klick]

@Well Done - You wanna act like this is anything different when I know for a fact Dunnstral knows I play this exact way as town. Catboi is doing the same exact thing with the "pushing whoever pushes them" but you chose to ignore it.


Here's where I stand right now.

If you want to act like I haven't given my thoughts on nearly every single slot on the game bar a few, like The Keeper or your slot, it's because I was still needing something more concrete for the both of you.

I would say this is your first major point of action during this.

The fact that it came after my Mastina push and not my Catboi one makes me think there's merit in Mastina/Well Done being on one scum team, then Catboi/Cassowary on the other.

The rest is probably somewhere in my town reads because I don't expect to be correct on Day 1 with all my town reads, i fall in pockets early, and that's okay.

Sword of Ducks
Save The Dragons
Tracer Bullet
MonkeyMan576
Bnuuy

Malcolm
WallFlower
Menalque
Norwegian
Cat Scratch Fever

Toogeloo
MegaZumarill
Enchant
Butterchurn
Tictac
Klick

The Keeper
Well Done
Nashville Dreams

Mastina
cassowary

catboi

UNVOTE:
Alright time to lock down and get into this nonsense

People I don't want to eliminate today

butterchurn
Nashville Dreams
Save The Dragons
Wallflower
Well Done
Menalque

People I think are fairly likely to flip scum

Toogeloo
catboi
MalcolmTucker
bnuuy

That's my preliminary assessment from kinda sorta skimming for the past two days. I want better reads than this.

I have to remind myself that this game has 9 (!) scum in it, and therefore there is going to be a lot of nonsense on any given page

Sword of Ducks

Save The Dragons

Tracer Bullet
MonkeyMan576

Bnuuy

Malcolm

WallFlower

Menalque

Norwegian
Cat Scratch Fever

Toogeloo

MegaZumarill
Enchant

Butterchurn

Tictac
Klick

The Keeper

Well Done

Nashville Dreams

Mastina
cassowary

catboi

I am vibing with this reads list

I colored Klick's last reads list onto this list that they agree with and don't understand why they agree with it. Some explanation would be nice.

The post you've quoted here was a starting point before a series of catch-up posts that further refined my reads

Sword of Ducks

Save The Dragons

Tracer Bullet

MonkeyMan576

Bnuuy

Malcolm

WallFlower

Menalque

Norwegian

Cat Scratch Fever

Toogeloo

MegaZumarill
Enchant

Butterchurn

Tictac
[Flavor Leaf]

The Keeper

Well Done

Nashville Dreams

Mastina
cassowary

catboi

This is a better representation of my reads compared to this list. The main point being that the top two tiers are good

Klick, are you townreading bnuuy now? I noticed you were voting them during my catch up

I went with the wagon earlier upon a quick skim and deciding it had potential to be on scum
I don't have a particularly strong read on bnuuy. Actually, for a 9-scum game I'm disappointed that I can't seem to obtain a decent scumread on anyone in particular. I'm struggling to decide how scum would play the position is the problem, I think.

[Klick]

I want today to end

[Klick]

VOTE: Nashville Dreams

[Klick]

VOTE: Flavor Leaf

[Klick]

VOTE: Flavor Leaf

You were just barely missing my fade list mark, you can confirm that with SP3 too.

They were asking about it, and I said i didnt want the lower posters faded.

Cool
I think your posting is achieving exactly what scum want in this scenario, and you're not towny
So I think you'd make a good lim today

[Klick]

I still think they’re scum together if anything. Klick awkwardly keeps mentioning catboi as possible scum but never commits when the going gets tough. Catboi made a big show out of how their early posting was trying to work out Klick’s alignment from Klick’s suspicion of catboi but there was never any real outcome or action from that.

I thought catboi was scummy early on but have been townreading him for a while now

[Klick]

I still think they’re scum together if anything. Klick awkwardly keeps mentioning catboi as possible scum but never commits when the going gets tough. Catboi made a big show out of how their early posting was trying to work out Klick’s alignment from Klick’s suspicion of catboi but there was never any real outcome or action from that.

I still think they’re scum together if anything. Klick awkwardly keeps mentioning catboi as possible scum but never commits when the going gets tough. Catboi made a big show out of how their early posting was trying to work out Klick’s alignment from Klick’s suspicion of catboi but there was never any real outcome or action from that.

I thought catboi was scummy early on but have been townreading him for a while now

What changed your mind there?

1669. I think catboi is not thinking how scum would here.
I also think catboi's presence has been particularly good for thread health and worthwhile content when he has been around - he's not someone I think should be taken out of the discussion today.

[Klick]

Let's go Toogeloo
VOTE: Toogeloo

Although I'd also very happily go FL but that obviously won't happen

[Klick]

I'm not scum here and I don't think you're scum CSF
The main reason I'm not contributing to the level I'd like to atm is that on any given page I'm reading a bunch of stuff from FL that I don't know how to process, and as a result I feel fairly crowded out of the game
It's stopping me from playing at anywhere near a level I'd be satisfied with
And that's with me having a large amount of time this weekend. It'll be worse once I'm back at work

FL has to know that he's having that effect on the game, and it's worse here than it has been in other games I've been in with him
That's why I think it could be an intentional scum tactic

[Klick]

I’m really struggling to respond to everything that’s happened so that kinda makes me want to just respond to as little as possible now.

That's a good summary of where I'm at

In other news, I feel like Toogeloo has been really easy for me to read as town in the other games I've been in with him somewhat recently, and I'm not getting that at all here

[Klick]

Frankly, I have a hard time stepping away. Been a long time since I played, and I don’t really plan to play much more for a bit, and this game’s got the unfortunate side effect of being the distraction while I’m in my writers funk for my novel I’m trying to finish up also

That does make sense, I can understand it being difficult to come away from something you're invested in.
Part of this is my responsibility as well for joining a big game like this fully aware that it has the potential to spiral out to a level where I can't process it. But then, I guess I can't help myself either sometimes lol.

Not sure what to do about it all though. I still think you have pretty high potential to be scum, but I also don't have any confidence that that'll go anywhere today.
In a vacuum, how do you feel about Toog, FL?

PEdit: no they weren't. I'm not sure if that's a variable that would cause Toog to appear less towny here though. I might go back and try to look at those games more critically at some point

[Klick]

Basically, nothing Toog has posted looks remotely like an attempt to find scum to me

[Klick]

I'm probably going to sheep mastina on wherever she settles, I'd love a Toog vote but Enchant is also fine
Mastina is the player whose read on the game most closely resembles mine so I'll put my weight behind her for the moment until I feel there's something more relevant for me to tackle

[Klick]

I'm reading butterchurn's ISO from Mini 2257. The things I'm noticing about him in that:

- very overcautious in giving opinions, has a limited perspective on the game
- a lot of his posts are simply questioning other people about their own reads
- makes a heavy IIOA post analyzing a wagon
- long post attempting to case a tonie relying heavily on summary
- extremely hedgy read on his scumbuddy
- avoids scumhunting by focusing on hypotheticals instead

I don't

think

that's like how he's played this game. I'll give it a review though.

If it helps, this was my assessment of butter upon replacing into that game:

But a quick ISO of butterchurn in this game compared to his other completed game on-site makes me feel pretty odd about him. The general impression I get from his posts in this game is that he's trying to *present* information, to *persuade* in what he writes. Where in his other game everything felt more like *analysis*.

Pretty vague general observation but it's my initial impression. We'll see if it holds up when I read more in-depth.

Butter's posts in this game have definitely felt more like analysis than persuasion to me, but I don't know how useful that is in this context (I doubt scum!butter feels a particular need to be a heavy persuading force in this gamestate). I think butter is town anyway, their contributions have been solid and felt genuine.

[Klick]

VOTE: Nashville Dreams

[Klick]

VOTE: bnuuy

[Klick]

I need to see what happened last night but I am not a fan of the Toog wagon.

Let me guess, it's a counterwagon to catboi.

No. Catboi wagon looks dead. It's yet another wagon in a stupidly long day and I lean town on Toog.

????? How, why

[Klick]

I think from now on I'm only going to discuss the first 30 pages of each game day
Or maybe the first 40 posts that each player makes

[Klick]

@ Nashville Dreams

I need to see what happened last night but I am not a fan of the Toog wagon.

Let me guess, it's a counterwagon to catboi.

No. Catboi wagon looks dead. It's yet another wagon in a stupidly long day and I lean town on Toog.

????? How, why

[Klick]

I need to see what happened last night but I am not a fan of the Toog wagon.

Let me guess, it's a counterwagon to catboi.

No. Catboi wagon looks dead. It's yet another wagon in a stupidly long day and I lean town on Toog.

????? How, why

VOTE: Toogeloo

[Klick]

I refuse to even consider voting for catboi ever again in this game so long as Flavor leaf is alive.

[Klick]

I refuse to even consider voting for catboi ever again in this game so long as Flavor leaf is alive.

I refuse to even consider voting for catboi ever again in this game so long as Flavor leaf is alive.

i get your frustration but this can be bad for the game as well. you don't have to come to the conclusion catboi is scum but if people don't consider it and he is scum we're not in a good spot

Yep, and the sheer fact people are stubborn about it and doing it because I'm pushing there, makes me want to push harder.


Just shutting me out, and discrediting means I need to be louder.

VOTE: Flavor Leaf


Flavor Leaf never sign up for a game that I am already signed up for and never replace into a game that I am in ever again. Your play in this game has been absolutely insufferable. You are literally the first player I have ever blacklisted - congrats.

~Lukewarm

VOTE: Flavor Leaf

[Klick]

I will not be voting anywhere but FL today.

[Klick]

Everyone is so fucking scared to vote someone that has decreased scum odds that we're going to get the whole setup out before we settle somewhere.
There comes a point where it doesn't matter. There's more likely to be scum within the claims we've had so far than it is that they're all town. Id wager we're more likely to hit scum within the popular wagons we've run up so far than we are to hit scum outside of them.

But more importantly, this game is unplayable right now and that needs to be fixed.

[Klick]

can you not be on a worthless vanity wagon ~_~

as much as everyone probably wants to kill him regardless of alignment ur just not helping by doing that because no one is going to actually rally to kill him lol

If no one actually wants FL out of this game enough to vote him then I don't think I'm actually losing much by voting him.

He isn't even towny, there's not actually a reason to townread him here outside of role and he's terrible for the gamestate.

I think he's likely to flip scum here, I think he's doing what he's doing on purpose as a scum tactic, and the concept of 'no one will ever vote FL' is a self-fulfilling prophecy and probably the only reason FL hasn't been voted yet.

Just vote him lmao.

[Klick]

VOTE: Flavor Leaf
Quick before the flood gets here

[Klick]

A small number of Gunsmiths with limited shots and the capability of getting false guilties on each other makes sense to me.

FL is just scum

[Klick]

VOTE: MonkeyMan5678 my boot scootin' baby its driiiving me ca-razy my obsession with the western, I dance all day...

It's 'my dance floor date' not 'I dance all day'


And 'Flavor Leaf' not 'MonkeyMan567'

[Klick]

If you find FL to be probable scum you should *not* want him to be in the game longer considering the sheer amount of influence he is capable of having on Day play

That is much more impactful than the info that might be gained by waiting until Night play gives us confirmation or more concrete info

[Klick]

If you find FL to be probable scum you should *not* want him to be in the game longer considering the sheer amount of influence he is capable of having on Day play

That is much more impactful than the info that might be gained by waiting until Night play gives us confirmation or more concrete info

This was

@ MegAzumarill

[Klick]

people really intentionally ignoring the fact FL claimed vig during the night phase before any of these "guilties" came out

klick wont address it bc he is also scum btw

My honest take is that FL's impact on the Day state is negative enough that eliminating him now is what is most likely to help the town start working towards a win. I ALSO think he's rather likely scum at this point, and that FL's claim is entirely conceivable from Mafia who suspects a Gunsmith could exist. But I'm valuing the first bit much higher than the second bit at the moment.

[Klick]

hastily drawn reasons

I
AKA the exact same reasons I was pushing them for EoD1

[Klick]

There's no reason why town wouldn't want more discussion.

There absolutely is
There was far too much discussion yesterday for a productive or enjoyable experience

[Klick]

Tbh I missed Ydrasse claiming a guilty completely
Doesn't really change my interests atm

[Klick]

I kinda doubt SCP is scum
I think they're doing what they think is the pro-town action

[Klick]

If MM wasn't gunsmith how did he know FL has a gun?
I see no reason not believe it

malefactor fake claiming guilty to get a mislim

Two individuals separately claiming the same result to different sets of people without info of the other
It's highly unlikely that either ROLE is false. Either being scum is a fine conclusion, but both roles almost certainly are telling the truth.

[Klick]

It took you 13 minutes to come up with something that is still a lot less likely than the roles just both being true

[Klick]

If the mafia had a Gunsmith already why does MonkeyMan need to claim Gunsmith at all ???

[Klick]

It's not provable tho.
What circumstances would actually prove that FL killed someone instead of having his scumteam do it?

All I see in the night results is that Mafia killed catboi. There aren't any other drawable conclusions.

[Klick]

It's not provable tho.
What circumstances would actually prove that FL killed someone instead of having his scumteam do it?

All I see in the night results is that Mafia killed catboi. There aren't any other drawable conclusions.

Mafia shot somewhere else and got their kill saved
mafia holstered due to the kill mechs

mafia double tapped alongside FL



pretty easy conclusions - but you're mafia yourself and TMI'd that the conclusion is a double shot so thanks

This notably doesn't say how FL's role can actually be proven in any reliable way in favor of pushing me as scum again.

You don't have an answer, do you?

[Klick]

They kept flirting with but never committing to either catboi and ND wagons

This KEEPS coming up even though I've responded otherwise before

I thought catboi was town and didn't have interest in voting him any time after the first few pages.

[Klick]

The Masonry is tictac/MegAzumarill/myself; I'm the 1-shot Gunsmith, targeted FL last night, got that he has a gun.
I townread MegAzumarill for role reasons.

[Klick]

@Klick what are the odds that FL is mafia vs. town vig?

I think FL is scum by play and find it rather unlikely that he's a vig. He loves this sort of shady fakeclaiming as scum and I entirely believe that he'd try to play his odds around a Gunsmith.

[Klick]

I think Klick is a Wolf Gunsmith out to avenge Catboi.

I'm doing an awful lot of waving my arms around for no reason for a Wolf.

If I drew scum with catboi I'd have been much more invested yesterday because catboi is one of those players that I'd try to have a lot of fun playing scum with. I'd like to think that catboi would have been having more fun as well.

[Klick]

I thought CSF looked towny yesterday but it was a rather weak gut read and I haven't felt the same way about her posts today
I think CSF is probably fairly high scum equity and so if FL really doesn't die today then CSF is a decent place for the vote to fall.

[Klick]

This game just isn’t and hasn’t been fun for ages but I feel that repping out ruins game integrity so I’m sticking with it at minimal activity hoping that either I get limmed or that enough people get limmed that I start wanting to play again

Vibe

[Klick]

It's not provable tho.
What circumstances would actually prove that FL killed someone instead of having his scumteam do it?

All I see in the night results is that Mafia killed catboi. There aren't any other drawable conclusions.

3 kills in one night?

And both scumteams are just going to let that happen if FL is actually a Town Vig?
I find it far more likely that we're never going to see a 3-kill night.

[Klick]

butterchurn
Nashville Dreams (Titus & Malakittens)
Cat Scratch Fever

Save The Dragons
Sword of Ducks

cassowary
Nero Cain

SCP 682

The Keeper
Dunnstral

MegAzumarill

MalcolmTucker
bnuuy
tictac

MonkeyMan576
Klick

Enchant
mastina
Flavor Leaf

Menalque

Ydrasse

[Klick]

butterchurn

Nashville Dreams (Titus & Malakittens)
Cat Scratch Fever

Save The Dragons
Sword of Ducks

cassowary
Nero Cain

SCP 682

The Keeper

Dunnstral

MegAzumarill

MalcolmTucker

bnuuy
tictac

MonkeyMan576
Klick

Enchant
mastina
Flavor Leaf

Menalque

Ydrasse

[Klick]

butterchurn

Nashville Dreams (Titus & Malakittens)

Cat Scratch Fever

Save The Dragons
Sword of Ducks

cassowary

Nero Cain

SCP 682

The Keeper

Dunnstral

MegAzumarill

MalcolmTucker

bnuuy
tictac

MonkeyMan576
Klick

Enchant
mastina

Flavor Leaf

Menalque

Ydrasse

Best solve I can estimate at the moment.
Tictac and mastina wouldn't be aligned with FL, leaving Nero/Keeper/bnuuy/Enchant as possible Mafia.

[Klick]

Town has such little control over what happens in this game its actually really frustrating the more I think about it

[Klick]

Actually interested in why you've got me as scum Fenrir.

[Klick]

i think your interaction with catboi could be partnery

If I draw scum with catboi here I have much more interest in this game than I do have
I also suspect catboi wouldn't have left
Like that would actually be fun

[Klick]

i think your interaction with catboi could be partnery

If I draw scum with catboi here I have much more interest in this game than I do have
I also suspect catboi wouldn't have left
Like that would actually be fun

i don't believe you

*shrug*
The universal soft nudge of me onto the bottom of everyone's reads lists with no actual pressure is indicative that both scumteams are completely fine with me being lined up as a mislim in like 2-3 days.

[Klick]

So there are two people voting me now who absolutely refuse to explain why they think I am scum

it’s almost as if there are 8 players here who didn’t get a town role PM

Klick liked this post

[Klick]

meh it was an ok post.

Also Klick, you are scum reading CSF right?

Why did you vote FL at the end of d1 instead of Toog?

1. Kinda? They're in my PoE and I can pretty plausibly see them as scum.

2. I really wanted FL out of the game as a stronger scumread and as someone who was making it impossible to play for several players, being the single biggest anti-town factor in the game and therefore good to get out ASAP

[Klick]

If my choice is between CSF and Dunn today I'm definitely voting CSF

but I'm frustrated that FL lost steam

[Klick]

I think both

[Klick and MegA]

are scummy for their end of d1 actions.

Did you get anything from asking me about them

[Klick]

In 6240 you had her in purple which I thought was a wolf read. I was going to say that it was strange that you weren't consolidating onto CSF but I guess that doesn't really track b/c the FL and CSF wagons were very close.

It wouldn't be that strange anyway since I wasn't bothered by consolidating on D1, no? I thought Toog was scum too.

CSF-wolf is a pretty vague 'I can see this' based on the people I had left when I took out my townreads.

[Klick]

Nero is probably town
His sorting feels genuine, plus he SR me which he always does as town

Leaning towards this atm.

Or at least, if he's scum the work he's currently putting in is because he's a wolf and his partner is under pressure. So basically, I think he'd maybe be scum with exactly wolf!CSF and he's probably town otherwise.

[Klick]

VOTE: Nashville Dreams

[Klick]

Mmmm.
UNVOTE:
Doesn't feel right. Nashville in iso actually looks rather townie to me, I think they're acting how they think will best help town. I thought this early-ish D1 but let it drop and I can't remember why, and now the same feeling has crept up again so I'm inclined to go with it.

[Klick]

VOTE: CSF

[Klick]

I think both

[Klick and MegA]

are scummy for their end of d1 actions.

Did you get anything from asking me about them

not really, should I have? You said you had a bigger scumread on FL so you voted there instead of consolidating on Toog which is ok..fair? Like it just comes off as weird and scummy that you were blasting folks for not voting b/c they were scared while simultaneously doing that. It makes it look like you were scum that didn't want to be on the wagon.

I didn't say people weren't voting because they were 'scared' - that's half my quote that you chopped off ages ago and left out the context of. I said people were scared of voting

within slots that had reduced chance of being scum mechanically

(i.e. monks, masons). The idea that I was saying people were scared of voting generally was your creation.

Or at least, if he's scum the work he's currently putting in is because he's a wolf and his partner is under pressure. So basically, I think he'd maybe be scum with exactly wolf!CSF and he's probably town otherwise.

yes, b/c town Nero doesn't put in the work. What is different about my play here and in Polish Rap where I was putting in a lot of effort while everyone else was lurking?

Part of me thinks you can't really be scum reading me but I think you did scum read me in Polish Rap so...

What makes CSF a wolf? Why did you vote Nashville if you had a scum read on CSF? (yes, I know you are voting there now)

I'm not scumreading you, I also didn't scumread you in Polish Rap (I scumread the three scum slots). My point is literally that I think you're more likely to be town because there are limited reasons why you'd be putting in this level of effort as scum.

CSF is slotted as wolf specifically because I have FL as Mafia and the interactions between the two make me think they're unlikely partners. I voted Nashville because I thought they were more likely Mafia, and they're higher priority today.

[Klick]

I voted Nashville because I thought they were more likely Mafia, and they're higher priority today.

so why did you switch?

I've already explained that

[Klick]

I would happily vote Enchant.

[Klick]

Sure VOTE: Enchant

[Klick]

Whats scummy about enchant, Klick?
As long as I am alive, there is 0 chance anyone will miseliminate Enchant btw

Enchant is likely to flip scum because many slots are likely to be town and Enchant is not one of them
I'm not getting the vote I would like so I'm rather happy with compromising on Enchant

If you want me to provide content that Enchant has posted that is scummy, I don't have it
I'd love to see content that Enchant has posted that is towny, if you have it

[Klick]

Has Enchant done things outside his scumrange?

[Klick]

something like this:

butterchurn

Nashville Dreams (Titus & Malakittens)

Cat Scratch Fever

Save The Dragons
Sword of Ducks
cassowary

Nero Cain

SCP 682
The Keeper

Dunnstral

MegAzumarill

MalcolmTucker

bnuuy

tictac
MonkeyMan576

Klick

Enchant

mastina

Flavor Leaf

Menalque

Ydrasse

Reading his ISO doesn't give me that impression, and 15 minutes of searching 'Enchant' in posts in this game hasn't given me the original explanation. I can go through Enchant scum and town games at some point, but I'm skeptical of seeing a positive difference between this game's level of solviness and another game's.

[Klick]

Ugh phone quotes

[Klick]

No Dunn is actually just town

[Klick]

VOTE: CSF

[Klick]

VOTE: MalcolmTucker

[Klick]

huh

ok then

[Klick]

yes

and ive already explained it.

dude has an energy tell and has shown a level of solviness that is absent

There is a personality type of tell too.

Literally compare a scum enchant game to any of his towngames including this one


btw last time i played multiball(grand idea) i read enchant right due to this

[Klick]

Night looks pretty good for FL-town doesn't it.

[Klick]

Yeah unless he killed his own teammate which wouldn't be above him but probably not.

Not going to lie this thought totally DID pop up. But I'm not going to let myself go down that rabbit hole.

[Klick]

I knew something was up when mastina was calling me pro-town instead of calling me one of the weakest players in the room

[Klick]

4 scum down in 2 nights? I like were we're at.

Welcome to the town Flavor Leaf!

VOTE: MegAzumarill

Even if you think MegA is a Werewolf this is not a good vote right now. Mafia can't afford to just leave MegA/tictac/myself all alive with 2 Mafia left - they'll have to target us at some point soon. So even though none of us are really townread by the room, we're not today's problem.

[Klick]

I don't think Malefactor has a kill?

[Klick]

A scumteam without FL on it had zero reason to make FL look town by killing mastina. FL definitely killed mastina.

[Klick]

I AM wondering why FL wasn't roleblocked actually.

[Klick]

Klick is almost assuredly scum.

You've started with this idea and spent a whole day phase trying to find reasons to justify it

[Klick]

The gamestate is pretty abysmal right now to play.
I think the masonry is all town, I don't think they are paired with catboi although there's not hard evidence in that direction.

[Klick]

The only people who could ever dislike playing in a toxic hyperposty game are scum tbh

[Klick]

D2 had over 80 pages
Which is an improvement over the 210 on D1
But is still way too much

[Klick]

I'm just a 1-Shot Gunsmith Mason, used the GS shot on FL Night 1. Nothing I'm aware of would have caused a No Result on me last night.

[Klick]

VOTE: cassowary

[Klick]

It's not really news that Menalque and I read each other as town here

[Klick]

His demotivation with this game feels very similar to mine for similar reasons, and also feels lacking in connection with any other slot in the game

I think Mena would care more about this game as scum too. I think he feels exactly how I feel and wouldn't feel that way as scum

[Klick]

I'm inclined to believe Mena from veey early in this game when he says he's mellowed quite a bit; what he's doing here makes complete sense from that perspective, if you consider that his priorities are in a place where he doesn't massively value Mafia compared to how he used to

Mena is being very clear about why he gives zero shits here, and I'm town and I'm of the same mind

[Klick]

cass is just scum btw. 8065 is entirely in the present/persuade realm of intention, it doesn't read as genuine town having genuine thoughts about this game at all.

[Klick]

I'm inclined to believe Mena from veey early in this game when he says he's mellowed quite a bit; what he's doing here makes complete sense from that perspective, if you consider that his priorities are in a place where he doesn't massively value Mafia compared to how he used to

Mena is being very clear about why he gives zero shits here, and I'm town and I'm of the same mind

Wrong.
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=89120&start=650

From a very quick skim, Mena seems to be enjoying that game

[Klick]

That's not persuasive evidence for Menalque being scum in this game when the game already has reasons for being unenjoyable
Similarly to how FL wasn't scum from the Gunsmith guilties on him because he'd claimed a gun privately beforehand. This game was already unpleasant, therefore Menalque not enjoying it says nothing about his alignment

[Klick]

Because Menalque is disconnected from this game in a way that doesn't read like he's partners with anyone

[Klick]

When you're scum there's this pressure to perform well for your few buddies that doesn't exist in the same way when you're town
I don't feel like Menalque is one of the remaining members of a small team carrying that responsibility in this game

[Klick]

I haven't looked specifically at Menalque/catboi interactions, it was a statement about Menalque's general attitude towards the game as I've read it

[Klick]

It's not an area I have a ton of interest in tbh since I'm not scumreading Menalque
I've not read all of your posts if I'm honest, is this Mena/catboi connection something you've talked about and think is legit or are you just trying to get me/Mena/catboi connections linked up

[Klick]

cassowary's posts read to me like she's trying to present an aesthetic or achieve some sort of goal instead of finding scum

[Klick]

If I wanted to make up a reason I'd write a couple of wallposts with too many words about my reads to fake depth, all conveniently pointing towards the goal of what I want to happen

[Klick]

klick's posts read to me like they're trying to come up with a reason not to listen to me instead of voting for obvious choice menalque

i still think ur mafia but also ur working towards helping kill wolves so I'll let u in on a secret - Klick is a likely partner showing intentional ignorance of menalques behavior to force the position of not scumreading the slot.

I find it preposterous that you think either mine or Mena's play is that of a scumteam that is aiming to win this game

I am trying to solve despite this game being misery to play, you just don't like it

[Klick]

i wish i was mafia this game would probably be a lot more fun

ngl lowkey a townslip bc theres no way mafia is having fun rn with 2 members down lol

Cass is like the 4th person to say this today

[Klick]

Maybe the game is just *not very fun*

[Klick]

Maybe the game is just *not very fun*

Yeet the negativity please.

The game is fun.

Positive vibes only.

Insisting it's fun does not make it fun

[Klick]

See I think only mafia/wolves would say that when cards aren’t in their favor.

I understand you want the game to be fun, but I have legitimate grievances with how this has gone that other people have also expressed, and just saying 'that's a scum take' is minimising a legitimate issue disrupting the enjoyability of this game for a significant chunk of players.

Let’s start from what your thoughts are and where they differ from the hood?

So the Masonry is basically barren of game content. There's been some role discussion but little in the way of secret thoughts about our reads.

I could do an updated reads check soonish?

[Klick]

Then let’s focus on making it fun again.

Barren hoods typically (not always) mean a scum is in that hood.

Who do you think could be/is scum in there?

I don't see the logic there and it doesn't seem conformable really. In fact, I posted in there a little while ago that I felt it was slightly indicative of a town Masonry that no one was particularly trying to push an agenda in our group. There's no scumteam that has anyone pushing to try to use the Mason chat to their advantage.

If there is scum in the neighbourhood, it would be tictac over MegAzumarill. I don't have much of a read on anything tictac has done, but Meg is town.

Klick is sus for the no result (could be Mastina) and gunsmith (could be randed twice but doubt it)

Something you might not be aware of is that I claimed Gunsmith in the Masonry at the start of the game (because it has little utility in catching Wolves but plenty in catching Mafia, which all the Masonry should be interested in regardless of alignment). Does that change your thoughts on the veracity of my claim?

There's no reason to think two 1-shot Gunsmiths can't be in this game, other than 'they're the same role', which is not strong reasoning.

[Klick]

If Mastina wasn’t scumreading FL

This isn't possible anyway

[Klick]

cassowary is scum

[Klick]

I've just had some potential setup design thoughts that might be interesting/maybe even useful but I'll share them in an hour or so

[Klick]

I've just had some potential setup design thoughts that might be interesting/maybe even useful but I'll share them in an hour or so

why wait?

Don't think work would've appreciated me writing up setup spec on the job

[Klick]

Toogeloo, Town Voyeur, politely asked to leave Day 1.
RCEnigma, Werewolf 1-shot Bookie, fled town Night 1.
MalcolmTucker, Town Hirsute Saint, politely asked to leave Day 2.
Enchant, Mafia Goon, exorcised Day 2.
Ydrasse, Town 1-shot Parity Cop Mayor, fled town Twilight 2.
mastina, Mafia Loathed 2-shot Activated Wolfsbane 1-shot Roleblocker, fled town Night 2.
butterchurn, Malefactor 1-shot Watcher, fled town Night 2.

All of these roles are what I'd describe as 'low potential impact'
Mine and Mathblade's roles also fall under that category, and the limitations on FL's vig would also make me classify it as that. Stuff like the Hirsutes also fit that.

I think all the roles are straight-up random alignment and that all speculation based on 'there wouldn't be X as Y alignment' is off base as a result. I think the Masons/Monks are likely to be the strongest anti-scum element this game has. Specifically I think this points to there being no issue with two Hirsutes, or two 1-shot Gunsmiths, or whatever, being any alignment.

[Klick]

VOTE: cassowary

[Klick]

Dunnstral was a poor vote and so is Menalque

[Klick]

Dunnstral was obvtown and so is Menalque
The reasons for suspecting them are weak and not sufficient

[Klick]

There are 14 alive and 2 Mafia
Mafia are running out of time to kill any slots that are not Masons
unless you all really want to make Mafia's lives easier by voting one of us

[Klick]

Menalque isn't trying to influence the gamestate
He isn't trying to manipulate anyone
He doesn't give a shit
He is coming in and occasionally saying what he thinks, and has no significant connecting factors with anyone
He's also been getting set up as a potential ML candidate like me for ages by the people actually running the day phases in this game that have so far gone 0/3

[Klick]

As someone who knows I'm town I'm really not sure how I'm meant to respond to 'I know Klick will be confirmed scum because [REDACTED] but it's not worth saying yet'

So I'm just going to make this the only post that acknowledges the thing you keep bringing up and otherwise keep on keeping on

[Klick]

N1 >> FL has a gun
N2 >> Klick no result combined with 1 shot GS (which I find sus combined with my PR)
N3 >> Learned (for some reason I am keeping hidden) wolves shot FL is very very likely.

This is very carefully different from how you originally phrased things
'which I find sus' and 'very very likely' were notably much more absolute statements in prior versions of this info
Why are you giving yourself room to wiggle

[Klick]

There are 14 alive and 2 Mafia
Mafia are running out of time to kill any slots that are not Masons
unless you all really want to make Mafia's lives easier by voting one of us

There's a pro-Mafia reason to continue ignoring this line of logic
Mafia are literally forced to kill Masons at a certain point; we outnumber them

[Klick]

FL help me vote obvscum cassowary pls

[Klick]

^
This player did not carefully craft their reads to manipulate you
They just... solved. Because they're town

[Klick]

Their solve isn't bad either. I'm not sure who I'd swap Mena with, maybe MathBlade or something I'm missing, but otherwise that's probably literally just the solve.

[Klick]

Nah I am good.

You and Tic tac are the only ones demanding an explanation.

You read like bitter scum.

I am okay holding out unless town asks for it.

You can kill me.

I also want an explanation but you think I'm scum too
Three more ppl ask for an explanation pls

[Klick]

Maybe wolves shot in the monastery because they have to

Keeper!scum isn't impossible because you weren't killed lol. You're far from the only viable nightkill. Even if your premises are all true and Keeper sees whatever you're saying, they could still choose to kill someone that's confirmed to not be their alignment.

[Klick]

I'm keeping an eye on the FL/MathBlade stuff and think it's a viable line. I'd rather vote cass today though I think

[Klick]

THEN DO IT

I am??? I think

[Klick]

VOTE: cassowary

[Klick]

Maybe wolves shot in the monastery because they have to

Keeper!scum isn't impossible because you weren't killed lol. You're far from the only viable nightkill. Even if your premises are all true and Keeper sees whatever you're saying, they could still choose to kill someone that's confirmed to not be their alignment.

Wolves shot FL. FL is alive. These things are true.

And Keeper could very easily make this decision, even if they thought you were PR.

[Klick]

Much more likely that wolves just shot SCP though lmao

[Klick]

Much more likely that wolves just shot SCP though lmao

It literally isn’t.

It literally is.

[Klick]

Yes it is

[Klick]

Menalque's post level matches how much he gives a shit

[Klick]

I'm seeing what Menalque is saying really easily because I essentially have the same progression in my give-a-shit-ness over a long period of time playing games on this site
When you learn to stop caring quite so much about your games of mafia relative to other things, this is what it looks like

[Klick]

What does a Cleric do

[Klick]

So congrats your protective is gonna die tonight because none of y’all will fucking listen.

Wolves fucking shot FL. Period.

Mafia shot SCP.

I do not care about any other explanations.

This blowup isn't consistent with you thinking everyone that wanted you to claim was scum

[Klick]

Ah

ah, math, you are remembering to take into account that each scum team can only kill 2/3 nights, right?

So yeah basically this
Thinking he saved FL is the only plausible explanation isn't rational

[Klick]

Now if anyone wants me to go over the redacteds I can now

N1 gunsmith check FL
N2 Occultist check Klick no result (could be Mastina blocked me but blocking a one shot GS claim is not like Mastina hence I think Klick is an ascetic wolf)
N3 Cleric on FL after I said “hey if I am paranoid wolves just shoot FL” makes me think wolves thought I was mafia and shot FL and Mafia shot SCP as a signal back.

None of this says I'm scum

[Klick]

I kinda wanna pop to Nashville Dreams.

We aren't popcorning. I have made it clear we are an invest and want at least one of our targets to go first.

VOTE: Nashville Dreams

Don’t care
Don’t believe you

You can claim or die.

You're pretending you have more sway than you have

Also there's still no good reason to think Mafia had to use a kill last night

[Klick]

RCEnigma N1
Butterchurn N2

Completely viable

[Klick]

That doesn't mean Mafia didn't shoot there
Makes more sense than them shooting a Monk lmao

[Klick]

That doesn't mean Mafia didn't shoot there
Makes more sense than them shooting a Monk lmao

I already explained why Mafia shot a monk

Wolves shot FL
Mafia shot a monk to cover up they thought I was scum and signaling to me

Explains Titus’s shift to me scum perfectly.

Or if they think you're scum they could just

you know

shoot you

instead of a slot that the wolves HAVE to kill eventually

[Klick]

I thought Menalque and I were partners

[Klick]

VOTE: menalque

Why

[Klick]

I mean yes it's basically 'gut' when you boil it down but I'm also confident that I'm right
The arguments for Menalque being scum are notably flawed

[Klick]

I like your reason better than others' for what it's worth!

[Klick]

What do you think of cassowary

[Klick]

I still think I buy townie FL over 'scum FL killed his partner,' it... seems pretty unlikely to me that he'd get his team to sign off on that plan, especially given the factional kill is gated in this game, so I am having trouble envisioning the utility of killing a teammate for cred over just not doing a factional kill that night. But, maybe this kind of play is more common in MS meta? Is that true? I am not sure why people are giving so much weight to what seems to me to be a relatively marginal theory.

If it were anyone but specifically Flavor Leaf I'd agree with this line of thought
I could see exactly him making this play and getting his partners to go with it

[Klick]

Especially if his partner was someone like MonkeyMan

[Klick]

Cass is conf town

Stop it

What mech says that

[Klick]

Role assignment is random and it makes sense for either scum alignment

Yes I agree

Cass is still town move on

Mech > deduction, no?

So why is Cass town

[Klick]

I suspect if you're town and flip as such it will do exactly nothing to change people's current perception of me

[Klick]

Math's posts are a massive distraction from useful content at the moment

[Klick]

Keeper threatens a gladiate on Nero, then give themselves an out on cassowary who is likely to die today anyway

I dare you to gladiate Nero

[Klick]

Keeper won't gladiate you, I'm calling their bluff

[Klick]

btw @MegA did anyone in the masonry in particular push for a no action N2?

I suggested it, with basically the reason MegA gave

[Klick]

Actually the reasoning I gave for MegA no targeting N2 was closer to 'if you're town, saving scum is a rather bad outcome so you should be confident you're saving town'

[Klick]

tbf I've been trying to get Klick and Keeper but game is Titus controlled

You might get your wish today...

Oh yes please

[Klick]

VOTE: MathBlade

Happy to go back to Cass if this hasn’t taken off by the next time I’m here

[Klick]

The thread is falling prey to MathBlade spamming his opinion on every page

[Klick]

MathBlade
CSF

cassowary
bnuuy
The Keeper

[Klick]

VOTE: cassowary

[Klick]

Enough people that I think are town are saying that MathBlade won't be voted today

[Klick]

MathBlade
CSF

cassowary
bnuuy
The Keeper

You're cute.

Still hooked on my Gladiator threat by any chance?

Why should I think you're town?

[Klick]

Nope
MathBlade has been adamant that voting him out will prove his theories. How is that in line with a scum misleading the town? That sort of position kinda requires staying alive.

Very naive to assume that MathBlade has any intention of actually allowing himself to be eliminated.