LOST (Game Over)

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Killing Dunn over the likes of Luke/Pooky makes very little sense.

When you add in two claimed Masons as well it's like WTF?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

@Pooky Because you were widely town read?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'm like 80% sure Math is town and BBT is scum. Dunn was shot N1. He was the first voter on BBT. Math has a habit of rubbing people the wrong way. He's easy to provoke. The other voter on BBT is a mason.

Flipping BBT also completely reveals the gamestate D1.

Will read up later.

~Titus

So I ISO'd Dunn real quick and I remembered someone trying to tie the Dunn kill to me. His most recent posting had absolutely nothing to do with me so why are you linking him being the first voter on me as if that's a legit reason to scum read me?

Wasn't that literally like 8,000 posts ago? Did Dunn have nothing more relevant that he might be killed for?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Killing Dunn over the likes of Luke/Pooky makes very little sense.

When you add in two claimed Masons as well it's like WTF?

If Dunn is FN like he claimed, then he is literally the only slot who can be confirmed without flips, so actually makes perfect sense.

So why did you try to tie the kill to me?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Also: idk if there’s been anything major since our last couple games but I also was scum in our last 2 (Slaughter Hour and uPick) and BOTH demanded I play my fucking head off at the start to not die.

This sort of looks like you are claiming mafia. Both because you are wondering why you are not getting pushed this game and because you say you were "also" scum in the other games.

His most recent read.

He also disliked Taly but maybe he was just explaining his choice in the gladiate?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

First off that was Titus and second, I just literally realized that now.

Can you two fucking talk before posting then? You could do this all game. You're accountable for what Titus says and vice versa.

Instead of flooding the thread with contrasting shit or stuff you both don't believe, just take a backwards step and get your thoughts together.

This is so annoying

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I mean, he literally said it right there?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I was already voting for Taly, but in case this resets the vote count:

VOTE: Taly

How about Taly today then?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Because Dunn died for reasons?

Or for the same reasons you decided to try and scum read me?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

it's a really bad look that BBT is making a big deal of "Dunn was pushing BBT before he died" as a point and trying to deflect it onto

literally anyone else

~GE

Misrep.

DP tried to push ME based on Dunn SR me (he was the first to vote me or some shit) which was literally like 8,000 posts ago. I took issue with this for obvious reasons. I then tried to say, well if Dunn's reads are what we are looking at, then he SR OTH and Taly in his LATEST reads which are

much more relevant

than his reads from 8,000 posts ago.

Like, are you purposely ignoring the fact that DP tried to posit me as scum because Dunn voted me like 300 pages ago?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Dunn was shot N1. He was the first voter on BBT.
~Titus

It's literally right here.

So OTH, you have a problem with ME doing any scum hunting from Dunn's reads but not DP?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

How do you feel about Mathblade BBT.

Math can be scum.

I didn't like Corwin's original read on me as default scum and I don't like Math's push on me Today at all. I'm sure he was another who tried to frame the night actions as pointing to scum!BBT

[BlueBloodedToffee]

You've got nothing on me.

You should listen to Marci.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Should probably stop displaying dissonance in thread then

Serms a simple solution.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

You've got nothing on me.

You should listen to Marci.

GO FUCK YOURSELF!

~GE

Fake frustration as you took the time to sign the post.

Got 'em

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'm drunk but Lukewarm's avatar looks like a rated X dog.

Are we ready to kill BBT yet?

~Titus

Not unless you can provide something decent for why I'm scum?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I’m back after breaking some stuff down for marci. So let me break this down for everyone:

DP is doing other sorting. BBT is not. That’s why him pushing this line of logic is bad. He is absolutely MADDENED by the scumreads being based on such a point and is tunnel-visioned on smearing as many others as possible.

~GE

That just isn't true, but sure. I can only respond to things as I am here, there will be a ton of things I have missed this game and I just have to accept that.

Right now, I see people pushing me based on very poor reasons and I have every right to call it out. At the very best it's a push from lazy town and at the worst it's an easy push for scum.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'm gonna bet mathblade is town but I have the most flimsiest read so I'm not gonna save them

What a disgusting post

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Luke, the biggest problem with your VCA is context.

Sure, I was on the Ceph wagon for a while. But if you look at my ISO, you will see I simply wasn't around for large parts of the game. 400 posts at a time could happen between two of my posts.

I vote Ceph early, like 155 or something. I post again around 600 to say I will try to catch up and then during catch up, around post 1000 I start voting frog. So between my original vote in 155 and my change of vote literally 2 or 3 posts later we're at post 1000 or something (can't remember as I'm phone posting)

I feel you're missing a huge aspect of VCA.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Wagons also need to be analysed in the context of a large game. You're calling 5 votes a wagon, and saying majority was town. This is equivalent to calling someone with 2 or 3 votes a wagon in a normal game - it simply isn't a decent enough size to analyse.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Do you find DPs or Enchants votes to be independently scummy or is it just because you're using pre-flip associatives?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

What is interesting is that most of the leading wagons this game have been on town - which means scum are driving the narrative of the game really well.

Of course, people won't look at certain other people because meta or some other BS until it gets to D4 or something and they start to open their eyes.

This meta circle jerk that goes on makes the game extremely difficult to play and difficult to insert myself into. I simply have to wait until meta players decide to reevaluate or even consider other viewpoints. It's usually too late by then though, it also gives scum players a great place to hide.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

what does this mean
is it a scummy post?

100%. Reeks of TMI. Like, you're confident enough to say that Math will flip town but not confident enough to do anything about it?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

You bet Mathblade is town = confident
But your read is flimsy so you won't defend = not confident?

Your sentences literally contradict each other

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Who did you replace?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

@Mod - Player list is not updated.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

VOTE: Mislim Bait

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Hmm, Klick was good at explaining town reads but not so much his scum reads.

I'm happy with my vote.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

You don't.

But simultaneously saying you bet someone will flip town without attempting to a) try and stop it or b) redirect elsewhere is scummy as shit. It's basically a told you so in waiting in the case of Town!Math to look good.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

But he said he bets Math will flip town - that shows he has at least what he feels is a solid read on Math. But despite this, he won't defend the slot.

I don't understand it at all.

Klick explaining town reads but not scum reads is scum indicative. It's extremely easy for scum to explain town reads because of the extra info they have. It's much more difficult for scum to fabricate scum reads on people they know are town.

However, due to Luke's VCs I have noticed something else. I looked at the wagons that had at least 5 votes...

Klick was on the Ceph, Math, Roden and Mala wagons. He was on 4 leading wagons at various points in the game.

Same for Bella. She was on Ceph, BBT, Roden and Mala. She has also recently positioned herself to rejoin my wagon should it take off. Extremely opportunistic, as was her comment regarding Math.

Pooky has been on 3 leading wagons - Ceph, Math and Frog.

CSF has been on 3 leading wagons - BBT, Roden and Mala.

DP has been on 3 leading wagons - Frog, Math and Mala.

Various people; BBT, Best Bird, Luke, Enchant and Prof have been on 2 leading wagons.

One of my main takeaways is that from all of this, Luke's main takeaway was that I stayed on wagons too long? Like what?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Right, I proved how Luke used the VCA and somehow managed to point the finger at me for being on two wagons and not notice that yourself and Klick have been sat on 4 different leading wagons during the game?

4 different wagons. Ceph and Roden being confirmed town as well (Roden not 100% but very likely)

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Bella if you're going to come for me, do it properly and commit.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Why did you include CSF there?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

VOTE: Mislim Bait

? Because they were in your list?

So were Pooky and DP who were also on 3 wagons along with CSF.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'm curious why BBT isn't pushing a scum read.

Are you fucking serious?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

But you're either not reading or being annoying on purpose so I'm not sure what you expect

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Above is @Bell.

I swore at you Bella?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I voted with my town reads/my town reads voted with each other/with me.

I'm trying not to be reactionary right now: I don't think it's true that you and pd are scum who've decided together to make shit up and swear at me but it sure feels it right now.

You don't need to be reactionary.

You lined yourself up well to join my wagon a few pages back.

Go for it.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

bell do u think im scum

Not really.

@BBT: Aren't you voting mathblade while essentially being apathetic about them?

No I'm voting Mislim.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

And what's your case on klick/Miselim?

ISO me

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I find it quite funny that you think both me and DP could be scum together but OK, I can see where you're coming from.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Above is at Luke ffs

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'm a defensive player, what can I say. I've had to defend myself this entire game because since the start I've managed to accumulate an unreal amount of scum reads. Was it 14 scum reads with 0 town reads? I also feel like I've consistently been a wagon option and it just gets tiring.

So why am I scum from the VCA again?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

It couldn't have been objective because you're looking at it from the POV of Scum!BBT. If it was objective, you would have noticed Bella and Klick being on 4 different leading wagons and 2 of those being confirmed town.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Ceph's reaction to pressure was towny - in particular, I liked where he was like 'don't take my Town PM away', his feelings around that feel genuine and I don't think it's the route he'd take as scum.

Explained town read on Ceph, as well as other multiple people in this post.

Notably also gone off Ceph town

VOTE: Cephrir

Votes Ceph with very little explanation.

Ceph asks why Klick flipped his read on him;

Well to be completely honest all three of the players in my scumreads section are very weak reads and I'm a bit lost for direction. I've reconsidered and think that what you've posted so far could really reasonably come from you as scum. I think you're reacting fairly poorly under pressure and I could see it being the route you choose as scum here.

But like I don't feel strongly about it. Nothing feels right as scum atm. In contrast, everyone in the top rung of my townreads is a rather strong townread, as in I'd be surprised if they were scum

Klick admits he has no strong reads but was happy to 180 on a previous town read? Not only that, he scum reads him for what he previously town read him for (reacting to pressure)

This is probably because Corwin/MathBlade is just a scum slot and should die today

VOTE: MathBlade

More detailed reasoning for a scum read from Klick.

I'd be rather happy with a Roden vote

Happy with a Roden vote, doesn't say why...

I see a Roden wagon
VOTE: Roden

Hops aboard the wagon. No explanation again.

VOTE: Malakittens

Naked vote again.

Klick was pretty bad at explaining any of his scum reads or his votes but was more than happy to elaborate on town reads. Again, easy option for scum.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

(I tried to call you!)

Do you always move your vote around this much?

Hey Bella, this you talking to Klick?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I don't really have one? Haven't paid them much attention.

Can ISO and get back to you at some point though

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Yeah, your bad post made me ISO your predecessor and then I'll look into what you have done so far as well.

You worried?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

it's like the end of Saw when the killer gets up off the ground and you're like oh shit that dude was alive the whole time? wow

Legit laughed out loud

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Titus, if you're town you really need to back off.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I like vcas but its bad to go overboard with it because you only see the results and ignore alot of context

Flavor

you may only vote for Taly or Cephrir

Vote Count 1.31

13 Cephrir (ProfessorDrapion, JohnnyFarrar, Taly, Off the Hook, Malakittens, Lukewarm, T-Bone, PookyTheMagicalBear, Rad, Dancing Puppets, Mathblade, RCEnigma, Bell)
7 Taly (Dunnstral, Cephrir, Frogsterking, Klick, MalcolmTucker, Roden, Cat Scratch Fever)

Not Voting (Cytosine and Guanine, Enchant, Bellaphant, BlueBloodedToffee, Dwlee99, Best Bird)

With 26 alive, it takes 14 to yeet.

Deadline: (expired on 2022-07-18 12:42:51)

Mod Notes

Replacing Klick
Mala on V/LA until the 16th
Titus V/LA
Best Bird V/LA
Taly V/LA
Lukewarm V/LA
Mathblade V/LA
Wedding week and new job expect less from me

So three of taly's voters flip town
1 is mason and 1 is klick which is the person I subbed for and know that is town.
any reason why we shouldn't speed lunch taly here?
I'll try to read malcolm and cat

This you?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Damn, all of Mislim's reads are very poorly explained.

I'm really happy with my vote and look forward to a wagon building.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

You did go overboard because you literally said 'Is there any reason we shouldn't use this VCA to speed elim Taly?'

If a speed elim is not going overboard, what is?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

You could start by having reads, but sure.

Talk to me about your scum reads.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Pfft.

How on earth do you read a player like Enchant? I don't particularly like their voting history and that's all I can go off.

I wouldn't oppose an Enchant elim.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

BBT aligning directly against me readswise. But I don’t feel like my reads are in a bad spot so.

How so?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

You could start by having reads, but sure.

Talk to me about your scum reads.

Actually no

I thought as much.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Explain your scum reads. It's real easy.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

You can't find a stronger scum read than Enchant? And your scum read is based on what?

What made Mala's outburst fake?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

You should probably do something about that then

[BlueBloodedToffee]

VOTE: BlueBloodedToffee

I’m okay with either. His progression on Enchant make 0 sense.

You're misreading.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

8941 seems like some silly gotcha reasoning. Mislim Bait didn't voted Taly after people told him there was a gladiate yesterday, and I feel like you could have checked this by ISO'ing the person you're scumreading

8845 is more of the same

VOTE: BBT

Literally has nothing to do with what I said.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

That I'm still OK with an Enchant elim?

And that Mislim's strongest SR being Enchant is weak sauce.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Right now I'm pushing Mislim.

I've had varying degrees of scum reads on DP, Best Bird and yourself. Bella has recently come into the picture, too.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I don't know if that's sarcasm or not?

I'm not really interested in people explaining town reads, no.

Pedit - @OTH

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Right now I'm pushing Mislim.

I've had varying degrees of scum reads on DP, Best Bird and yourself. Bella has recently come into the picture, too.

These are all slots having you as either srs or sls.

Mislim didn't have me as scum.

Neither did Bella. I do have a tendency to scum read people who scum read me though so I'm not gonna argue too much about that.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

@CSF - He said he likes VCA but not to go overboard.

I then quoted an early post showing him going overboard based off of VCA.

You see the contradiction or no?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Not really.

If someone was being wagoned and under serious pressure, I got time to listen to town reads. I don't care much for random town reads stated for little to no reason.

Scum being nuanced about town reads is an excellent way to get town read I find. I really don't see the benefit for town in explaining town reads outside of the parameters I just stated.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I can see why you may think that

Why is this scummy?

Because it was an easy 'in' to the game for scum.

Why are you focusing on this part of my read on Mislim and not everything else?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

What is the rest of your case? That klick's naked voting was scummy?

I already said i found your initial reasoning behind the Mislim vote weak

You can read or not.

I'm not overly fussed.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Barely present = scummy?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

So?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Like, if OTH really wants to explain it then I can't really stop them can I?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Of course not, you're on just as many wagons as Klick (except for Ceph I believe). It's not just the votes either, there is literally no build up or explanation for any of them.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Hey Rad, how is it going?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

What about their questioning and interactions feel genuine? Do you have any specific posts in mind?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

8816 - A narrative about something that happened...In what way does this feel genuine?

9141 - An extremely basic question. I don't understand how you read this as genuine?

9144 - This is an interesting post actually. I wondered why he questioned it but from his ISO it looks like he ISOd you and it's actually a good spot about your reads

9147 - I actually like this post as well.

VOTE: C&G

I actually agree with the read that Mislim could be town. But I really don't agree with your reasoning for how you got there.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Did you read my posts?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Literally happened in 9162

[BlueBloodedToffee]

There isn't much more to explain.

There was some nuance to the way Mislim was questioning C&G that I liked. I didn't like C&Gs reasons for town reading Mislim as it felt like buzzword nonsense (Mislim sounding 'genuine'). I agree with the conclusion that Mislim could be town but I disagree with the reasoning of C&G for the town read.

I also wondered whether C&G were appeasing Mislim with the town read given Mislim was pushing them.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I don't feel like we have had the chance to interact much. I did notice you shading me recently though and I didn't like it.

Maybe the post restriction was real but they're just scum? Why can't that be a thing?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I don't know, I just felt you basically saying you would lim me for information over literally anybody else felt really scummy. Especially as you were using someone else's analysis as the basis for it and so wouldn't need to take accountability as it were.

What scum reads do you have?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

@luke, read your spoiler before your conclusion and we came to the same thing. I think bbt flip is a tonne of info, based on what you've done. *shrug*

Maybe it wasn't 'above anyone else' but you basically said you're happy to lim me for info here.

Which I took to mean you would lim me over your scum reads for info.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

C and g too. In my head I get hung up on only one of them or math can be scum but that's not mechanicalky true is it

I don't know. I think it would be weird for Math AND C&G to be scum and be in a neighbourhood. Like, that literally makes no sense at all.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

My scum reads are boring - there's at least one scum in Johnny/mala/enchant. I think best bird is just flat scum. I'm trying not to scum read professor drapion. Math could be scum. I guess my spicier scum reads are that I wouldn't be surprised if oth was scum. Occasionally I waver on pooky:, but they are probably town.

Some of our reads sync up nicely actually.

Why one scum in Johnny/Mala/Enchant? Best Bird is a read I have held for a long time, too.

At least one of Luke/Pooky/OTH are scum. Scum are driving the game too well for all of those to be town IMO

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I didn't even consider the possibility of the neighbourhood not being a thing. With the show having lots of separate camps/places it makes sense for the game to have a ton of neighbourhoods.

Did Corwin mention anything about the neighbourhood? I seem to remember someone saying Corwin didn't even mention interpreting posts for C&G, is that right?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Can I interest you in a C&G vote, Bella?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Crazy theory.

I wonder if some of the neighbourhoods do consist of T+S and scum know this. Therefore, two scum decided to 'create a neighbourhood' in the hope that if one of them flips then the other person in their neighbourhood is cleared as town.

Is that too tin-foily?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I just checked OP because, you know, common sense.

Umm, so neighbourhoods should probably be sorted, no? I know it's flavour based but indulge me.

Ethan infiltrates the camp of the survivors from plane crash and pretends he was one of the people on the plane. Could this be done in the form of a T/S neighbourhood?

Also, 2 neighbourhoods with T/T doesn't really make sense to me? If they're all town just make one of them a masonry or whatever?

I'm not great at game set up, but like, based on flavour I would think there is scum in the neighbourhoods somewhere. If someone is widely enough scum read from the neighbourhoods, that would be a good place to start

I posted this fairly early into the game and I still stand by it.

Neighbourhoods need sorting at some point.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

At least one of Luke/Pooky/OTH are scum. Scum are driving the game too well for all of those to be town IMO

I confused by the make up of this trio? How did you land on these three?

These are the 3 that worry me most and I feel are pretty much universally town read and therefore unsuspected.

I think I could be holding onto an early scum read of OTH too hard though. I probably need to reevaluate that read at some point.

Pooky posts a lot but I literally can't think of anything that they have said this game.

You say all the right things and pick up on things that makes you town read people. But I don't see you aggressively pushing scum reads and this is the part that worries me.

If I'm completely honest, I'm also shocked that Dunn was killed over you/Pooky or someone else like that.

These reads can go on the back burner until Tomorrow or even D4 though. If you're all still alive, then questions will need to be asked.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

maybe BBT is a role that exists in a different dimension than the rest of us cuz these takes are so divorced from reality I can't imagine what game he is reading

Or not reading as the case may be.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

But I don't see you aggressively pushing scum reads

lol

You OK?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

+1 to the new guy scum reading me. I'm so good.

Could do with a VC

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Malcolm absolutely shouldn't be today's elim.

C&G is still a fantastic option though

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Yeah, they're apparently in a hood together.

What's the case for scum!Math?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

DP, what was the point of 9541?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

We just gonna ignore how hedgy DP were with Math yesterday and how they tried to run me up to counter him?

Cool. Cool.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Masons need to step the fuck up as well. You guys are being left alive over other players and you're pretty much confirmed town.

Scum clearly not worried about BB's power either...

And both Luke and Pooky are still alive. Awesome stuff.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

It's not about giving scum reason to kill you - it's about you using your near conf town status to try and influence the game in what we know is a town driven agenda.

I would agree with scum probably being in your town reads, too. That would make sense as to why they're not concerned.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Lol.

There is no way I am scum after the Math flip so please don't waste your time pushing me.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Sure, but why? It wasn't certain that Math would get elimmed and I don't think anyone would get cred for bussing me given how widely I've been scum read this entire game.

Like, he literally opened his D2 pushing me. That's never s/s. Not to mention Corwin default scum reading me for BS reasons as well.

I'm just never scum with Math

[BlueBloodedToffee]

We'll agree to disagree.

Have you looked at Corwin's interactions with me?

Also, Mala is prob town from Corwin's ISO. Taly, too.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Who was scum reading who for totally nonsense reasons?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Why would scum bus me? Like, of all the possible scum players in the game, why would scum choose to bus me? They would literally get 0 cred from my flip and that's the primary reason to bus someone.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Meh, I guess you did enough for the Math elim.

Luke is likely town from the Corwin flip as well so I can relax my paranoia there.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I moved off Math because they were getting replaced and my vote was sat on an idle slot.

You need to understand this game FMPOV. I have been getting scum read/pushed from a lot of different directions. It's extremely difficult for me to keep my focus in one place and even maintain consistent reads at some points of the game.

Once DP started pushing me and Mislim Bait, they took my attention away from Math.

I was literally the counter wagon to Math as well so? Can we stop this?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

CSF is prob scum and Johnny is town if Bella is scum.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'm like 80% sure Math is town and BBT is scum. Dunn was shot N1. He was the first voter on BBT. Math has a habit of rubbing people the wrong way. He's easy to provoke. The other voter on BBT is a mason.

Flipping BBT also completely reveals the gamestate D1.

Will read up later.

~Titus

DP is town.

Sure.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

CSF is prob scum and Johnny is town if Bella is scum.

Why is that?

Which part?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Roden I said his interactions.

Not his read.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

You're scum for being on my wagon countering Math and your attempt at linking me with Math for start of Day.

Johnny is town because both Corwin and Bella have tried to shade that slot way too much for them to be scum together.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Huh, he didn't. I thought I remembered him doing it.

Did you really just recall that from memory?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Like, that shows some hyper awareness of what the Corwin slot has or hasn't done.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Hmm, after reading Bella's ISO maybe Johnny can be scum with her.

She shades him a fair bit but never really pushes him and always finds someone else to vote.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I was SRing Luke for nonsense reasons in Open 840.
-Guanine

Right, I don't really care about other games.

I meant this game.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

We just gonna ignore how hedgy DP were with Math yesterday and how they tried to run me up to counter him?

Cool. Cool.

It’s not “hedgey” to want to wait for a replacement and we were voting Enchant but sure continue to misrep my posting.

It is hedgy for both heads to be reading Math differently and flip flopping on him while pushing other elims though.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Isn't that a convenient excuse if you're scum? And further reasoning for why you show public displays of dissonance. Nobody can question it.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I mean, if you disagree you have a PT for that sort of shit no?

What do you gain, as town, by pubicly displaying dissonance? As opposed to keeping the read in the PT until it's agreed?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'm not saying they're scum for dissonance. I'm saying it's a good thing for scum to fall back on in general when it comes to reads. I suppose it's more a discussion for post game.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Flavour claim Bella?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Scum obviously have some sort of strongman then.

Question is whether it's X-shot or not

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Pooky mentioned tracker?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

The fail on CSF is interesting as well.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Based on play alone, I don't think Bella is scum. As such, I'm willing to believe the claim and also think scum have a strongman.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Why would it have to be ninja?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Scum have a strongman.

Where did Pooky mention tracker RCE?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

The alive slots that mentioned tracker this game: Drap, Pooky, TBone.

???

[BlueBloodedToffee]

RCE, you said when you replaced in you're confirmable town.

That was a joke?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I think I also might have saved a wolf.
I’m slowly starting to question my TR on Taly.


@Taly do more!

What makes you say this?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

RCE, you said when you replaced in you're confirmable town.

That was a joke?

I mean you can go look at my math interactions and tell me that I’m not hard town here.

Right. But you didn't have those interactions upon replace in so that doesn't answer my question.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

We're not yeeting Bella.

Pooky is scum posting again.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Although actually, now that I think about it, scum using a strongman on Bell when there are so many potential options for a Doc to save doesn't really make sense.

Bella's play doesn't feel like scum though?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Frog did call Math and Pooky both wolves.

Frog was a Vig kill, no?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

VOTE: Pooky

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I haven't paid him much attention so I couldn't honestly say.

The fact he is sat in a blind spot for me and I've only just realised that is a red flag though

Pedit - Yeah, I did Bella. You're right. I don't think I've done the same here though. I questioned that read a lot in Deputy and I think I just wanted you to be town. I haven't found reasons to question the read here so I feel a lot more confident that you're town.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Why does scum using strongman on bell not make sense?

Because there were too many options.

Masons, BB, Luke (if town), Pooky (if town) to name 4. You don't waste a strongman when a potential Doc has so many people to choose from. Unless it's unlimited shot

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I can't count. I named 5.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Masons plus BB at the very least needed to be considered.

The widely town read slots are additional as they can't all be scum (I guess they CAN but it's highly unlikely). So given there are so many options for a Doc, why strongman so early?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Because Strongman can be elimmed?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Scum obviously have some sort of strongman then.

BBT, why is there no paranoia of a Bella fake claim here?

Because of how she claimed.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

well klick have also noticed that bella had been kind of hedgy with their math reads.
Bella said that math is off since d1 but they never pressured that slot and only voted them once last day.

This is an interesting find.

Not far below that was this ;

I think Corwin got a bad rap because he started the game away from it and had to come in on the back foot with people scum reading him when he literally wasn't in the game yet.

This is a poor generalisation of the scumreads on Corwin
I'd rather the history on that not get edited thx

[BlueBloodedToffee]

How many protectives would be reasonable in a 21/5 game?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

VOTE: Bella

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I really don't think Bella is the elim Today.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

UNVOTE:

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Bella issue resolves itself in time, no?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

why would scum even shoot bella at night if they have an ungated strongman

Have you ever seen an ungated strongman?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I just woke up and was in court. Can someone give the 411?

~Titus

Prof claimed a guilty on Bella visiting Bell.

Bella says she is Doc. Flavour claimed Juliet and said she is Macho.

Don't know why I'm telling you this when you have a hydra partner but I've typed it out now so I'll post it

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Juliet.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

That's what we're waiting for

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Look at it for what? That was a portion of the game that I completely missed

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I have episodes in my role PM

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I missed the word 'not' and well, it's done now.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I’m also really frustrated that I don’t really have a clue who’s scum here but at least we have a red flip now, so I finally have something to work with.

Glad it's not just me.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I think I agree with DP and Rad. I said earlier that the Bella issue resolves itself and I still believe it.

We can continue scum hunting with the rest of the time we have and then go from there.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

The points above don't really matter as it's a 4 person scum team. Scum decide together who to kill and it might have been a consensus kill from the other 3 for example. Bella, if scum, would be a decent enough choice to send out to actually do the kill, it doesn't mean she agreed with it or even wanted it.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Maybe but if Drap is right about possibly being roleblocked n1, why would scum have Bella make the kill when they know that Drap was hard sr her?

Well, scum wouldn't have known Drap was a tracker for starters. On top of this, outside of Drap, was Bella being scum read by many other people? Seems a safe person to send for a kill

[BlueBloodedToffee]

So the real question is why was he able to successfully track Bella but not CSF?

Since I think CSF is town, it points to likely roleblock.

This is the real question - I would argue it wasn't a Roleblocker and has something to do with CSF's role. As you say, why roleblock one night but not the next?

I would also ask you to reevaluate your CSF town read.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

While I was looking for that post I saw a little recap Luke had done about how the frog wagon was dismantled and what I thought was interesting was that Math opted not to jump on that wagon at its height. Luke pointed out math said they didn’t want to elim an invest(suggesting scum had a way to deal with it) but the interesting part is that this is when the competing wagons were Taly and Mala.

I think Math would be more inclined to be on the frog wagon if a partner had the potential to be elimmed over town!frog. So I’m kind of on the Taly/mala!town train?

If that’s dumb someone tell me now before I bias myself.

Mala is town from Corwin ISO regardless

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Bell was pretty much conf town for his Math push, no?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I agree the kill is still strange in terms of choosing him over both Masons or BB. Possibly even the wider town read players, too.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Fear protectives protecting potentially 3+ people? Doc had a wide choice, no reason for scum to worry too much I wouldn't think.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

These PRs also useless.

But they're still PRs over a complete unknown in Bell.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Do you think I'm the only one doing it and do you only have a problem with me doing it?

It does help if we can figure out why scum felt Bell was important enough to kill over open claimed PRs, yes.

Pedit - Above @OTH

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I was townreading Corwin - I think that he genuinely believes in 1742, and 1763 looks like a fairly complex thought even if I disagree with its conclusions.

I'd be down for Toad though

This looks bad in retrospect. I think it was Luke who mentioned it at the time but I don't see how these thoughts are complex and so the town read feels unjustified.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

NKA is vastly underrated imo.

This. 100%

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Do you think I'm the only one doing it and do you only have a problem with me doing it?

wow why r u so defensive....
i just noticed you were doing it, do u have any conclusions yet as to why they wanted bell specifically dead?

i dont have a problem with it but i cant tell what ur weighing rn rlly

I was talking about it

in reponse

to DP discussing it. I get defensive because it feels like you're picking up on almost everything I post that you can have a go at.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Also, haven't really come to a conclusion in terms of why Bell was targeted other than they were very likely to be town upon Math's flip.

But so was Pooky? So, yeah.

Pedit - I was literally just looking at those posts, too.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

How many votes on Bella?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Johnny is town because Bella pushed that slot almost all game. Didn't Corwin push Johnny, too?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Wow. You really checked Luke.

Not like C&G... But Luke.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Luke was probably a wasted shot but TBone is a really good one.

I’m X-shot bp and don’t think Drap was a save so take that for what you will.

What makes you think you were targeted?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Probably not, I meant more in terms of like why

you

and not Luke or Pooky or whatever

[BlueBloodedToffee]

That’s just page one I can do page two of Bella’s johnny mentions.

I have her iso open

I'm not saying she didn't scumread johnny, but I'm not seeing why we should rule out distancing

If it's distancing it can be revisited later. I don't see why, with 21 players alive or whatever, Bella spends a lot of her time pushing scum!Johnny.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I remember when I said initially that Johnny is prob!town on a Bella scumflip that someone reiterated it but I think it was just drap and they’re already town.

I believe I actually said Johnny was town if Bella was scum before you did and you reiterated me

[BlueBloodedToffee]

VOTE: Enchant

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Are we just accepting that town have all of - can talk to dead, can role check dead and 1-Shot coroner as well?

This all makes sense to everyone yeah?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I don't know but it all seems OTT with how much interacting with the dead there is.

1-Shot Coroner AND full coroner seems silly, no?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Are we just accepting that town have all of - can talk to dead, can role check dead and 1-Shot coroner as well?

This all makes sense to everyone yeah?

crying about game imbalance comes from scum like 80% of the time

Wanna do something about it?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

BB's seems fine independently.

But a full coroner and a 1 Shot coroner just seems meh?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

VOTE: Rad

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Nope.

Was just scum trying to secure a mislim.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

No reason to distance with so many players still alive. No reason to bus so hard with so many other options either.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Sure, but not at that point of the game.

Let's say Math's push was successful. I was pretty widely scum read at the time too, so it's feasible. You're suggesting that, as scum, we decided to try and narrow the pool so that it could potentially be Math vs BBT for absolutely no reason. It would be an extremely dangerous play given how widely scum read both of us were.

Not to mention the other player would get very little cred from a red flip. So, yeah, can we not?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Yeah I'm close to voting bbt here. I gave him a pass too long thinking I could read him better but I just can't. I read him town in 2095 without much trouble but this game I haven't been easily convinced 1 way or the other. Just sits there at null and leans back and forth. That's probably a good sign of scum bbt. I just woke up though so going to think about this for a bit.

Nice.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

If you could explain, FYPOV, how me sitting at null is a 'good sign' of scum BBT that would be great.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I wasn't sure, I'm not great at set-up spec either.

I believed Drap was tracker and I believed he tracked Bella to Bell, I just wasn't sure that this made her scum. I was town reading her pretty heavily outside of the claim and I mostly relied on this to form my read. I also liked the way Bella claimed and the info she gave made me think she was telling the truth (in terms of being macho, why would scum have a macho Doc for example). I can't lie and say that I didn't just *want* Bella to be town because I enjoy playing with her, so there is that as well.

The strongman was just a consideration as well - again, something that I wanted to think so that Bella could be town. After thinking about it though, it seemed strange for scum to use strongman on the Bell kill, so yeah, I disregarded it.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

You don't think I pressured and was more involved in our Newbie game where I was scum?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

@Rad - I'm pretty sure you used that exact line of reasoning for why I was scum when you were scum and I was town in our last game.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

[
I believe I have a good feel for the difference between scum!BBT and town!BBT, but he'll have to ramp up his activity before I can test that theory. He's just null right now. His town and scum play is pretty similar, so it's not really a meta read per se, it's just that his intuition comes out differently as town vs scum.

This you?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Town Lean:
butterchurn
Johnny
T-Bone
BB
Pooky
Mislim Bait
BBT
Taly
Roden

What changed your read on me since here, Rad?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Yeah and then 400 pages happened and I lost your tone. So reading 2095 helped remind me what town bbt looks like.

Doesn't respond to what I'm saying. You said you have a good feel for the difference between my town and my scum game. Now, after 400 odd pages, you're saying I'm null and you can't read me.

You see the problem with these two statements, yes?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

viewtopic.php?p=13427572#p13427572

Here C&G ^^^

'I'll admit that I didn't know how to read BBT last game and I'm having the same difficulty this game. If I relied on meta, this game feels identical to how he played in my last game with him where he was scum. I think that's weak reasoning though so I'm coming into this game with a null read on him.'

Taken from the linked post above.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

You'll notice in that same game that he was town reading me until I started suspecting him - just like he has done here.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

You don't think I pressured and was more involved in our Newbie game where I was scum?

You did it differently. I noticed the difference in 2097 and 2095 helped confirm it. You're a town leader and help push information out of people. Haven't seen that here, but it's a long fucking game and I lack confidence in this read.

How can you be town leader in a game you physcially couldn't keep up with? You also can't be town leader when you're heavily scum read. I also have very little influence in this game due to a variety of things so fuck try-harding, right?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Mislim is a smart guy (please don't be scum)

[BlueBloodedToffee]

UNVOTE:

Rad can be town for his early game Corwin push.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I was thinking CSF could be scum but it seems less likely now from Bella's posting.

VOTE: Malcom

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Was their town read on Corwin and the 180 on Enchant that caught my interest.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Pooky spewed town from Math, no?