P-edit: tierce, you're wrong, vigs have a much lower % of hitting scum than lynches, so yeah.
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Salamance scum - that jump on the feysal wagon was horrendous: he chooses him instead of voting him, he smacks on RVS-esque commentary and then asks something that was already asked (with multiple question marks, mind you).
Starbuck scum - mostly what was already said. The initial I-thought-about-it-but-really-didn't about the Chooses, followed by more of that, followed by not reading the argument closely at all.
I didn't read the feysal thingy as a scumslip at all, and mostly what Regfan said in this regard.
Pappums town.
NachoPlum probtown.
Regfan probtown.
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vote: salamance
Choose: Starbuck
Also wow there's a lot of people whose names start with S this game.sa vrede?-
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In post 104, Staeg wrote:Salamance scum - that jump on the feysal wagon was horrendous: he chooses him instead of voting him, he smacks on RVS-esque commentary and then asks something that was already asked (with multiple question marks, mind you).
This is why.
BBmolla admitted that his vote is sheeping and only sheeping. He didn't try to pull any fancy "BUT WHAT IF I MISSED SOMETHING????????/?" Granted, he's not town for it, but I'm not assigning him any scumpoints, either.
Dolorous Edd is just... wrong. He was the first to point it, when there were no actual votes on Feysal.sa vrede?-
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The time you took finding this picture could've been used for catching up.
Also, to clarify things about starbuck: the VT claim is a not a towntell, for fuck's sake. It wasn't even accompanied by a flavorname. Some may say "But she selfvoted! And claimed VT! Scum wouldn't suicide like that!" and they would be right. They wouldn't. The problem is, the only way to call their bluff is to choose/lynch them, which, guess what, is not happening. Her confusion on the Choose thing... I guess that I could remotely see why it's considered as a towntell, but uhh, the "Why are you choosing this early???" means that she at the very least took the time to think about what the choose is/why are people doing it, but the following posts re: choosing do not reflect this.sa vrede?-
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In post 137, Shadow1psc wrote:In post 136, Staeg wrote:The time you took finding this picture could've been used for catching up.
Who said I wasn't? Who says I don't have a handy cataloged reaction image folder (who doesn't?!)
Pro-tip: I wasn't catching up.
So, then, commentary?sa vrede?-
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In post 143, Shadow1psc wrote:I actually will comment on this - I was following the thread last night until about the point where people jumped on Feysal's junk, but I was of the opinion that our choice was basically a second lynch. Now anyone saying "Well, let's use it on someone suspicious", if they're suspicious (you think they're scum) and you've succeeded with catching scum even (unlikely IMO), scum is going to shoot whoever the hell they want, not who we (the collective town majority opinion) wants to shoot.
Okay, so, you don't have ANY opinion of anything that happened until the Feysal stuff. However, what you said here is obvious and pretty much useless, so...?
I am still not really sure about why anyone is saying that the person we choose should be the one choosing whom he vigs.sa vrede?-
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In post 147, Shadow1psc wrote:In post 145, SnowStorm wrote:I'm not sure I'm following you. You're saying that you agree that we should use it as a second lynch, but you also want to have control over who the chosen person will vig?
No, I'm saying if we're using it as a second lynch (smart), we can't expect to control who the extra kill is. We could certainly wish for it, and it's likely it'll be a mislynch (just based on past experience), but it's likely then that a directed kill will also be a failed attempt to hit scum, so I say we use it as a regular lynch and just don't try to direct it.
Why shouldn't we try to direct it?sa vrede?-
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In post 158, BBmolla wrote:Choose: Shadow1psc
Dear God, it's like reading what I'm like as scum.
MoI I'm here
Why the choose instead of vote?
PE: do explainsa vrede?-
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Molla, your gambit is cute and all, but how is this not dying with firesa vrede?-
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I'm mildly... not suspicious, I guess, but... troubled? by the fact that snowstorm doesn't want to read the previous games to "keep an objective PoV," when he has already played with about 1/3 of the playerlist on the Westeros forums.
Re: Regfan's 345 - again, for the millionth time I ask: how is posting 10 posts of 50 words worse than 2 of 250?
Alek's entrance to the thread reeks of bad (no, tyene, it's not a towntell because someone else already got the brownie points for it), and shadow's reaction to said bad was, um, actually scummy
Okay, for the last time (and sorry if someone has actually answered, but I don't think they have): why would we not use the Choose as a second AND third lynch? I know, the second one can hit scum, I know, the assassin can be dumb and do their own thing even if town, but why does it hurt to try?
So, to sum it up, the following players should be dead come massclaim day (preferably within the next 4 days):
Salamence
Dolorous Edd
Hyperion
Shadow
I would still like starbuck to die (who STILL hasn't nameclaimed), but I'm more or less alone there.
unvote
Vote: Hyperionsa vrede?-
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In post 433, Salamence20 wrote:Why should starbuck claim at all? He already claimed VT, what more is there for you to find out?
I would like to know why you want DE, Hyperion, and Shadow dead, because I am sure I know you want me dead because of my shitty LyLo play, which is more biased than actual scummyness.
Her rolename. You know, when you're doing that whole "waa I'm a vanilla townie justlynchchoose me already" I would expect you to nameclaim at the very least (the thing is, I'm seeing a disconnect between her resigning herself to death and not claiming a rolename - which brings me to the point that she might have been coached to do this without the proper details).
DE, because of alek's entrance posts. Hyperion, because every single thing that he's said has A) been said at least twice already and/or B) is crap. Shadow, because of his posts before he went into /emo state.
In post 436, Lyanna Stark wrote:I'm reading SnowStorm as scum, but I want to interject here a bit because it makes sense to me why he wouldn't. At Westeros, we always play behind alts. There are very very few times we play altless. We also have quite strict meta rules. We can't out another person's alt or our own. Sure, we have codes and things to get around some of the rules when we have meta reasons for why we read people the way we do, but we can't use that as part of our cases or arguments at all. You know how people go, "In GvE, you behaved this way, so I believe xyz here?" We can't do that there. So, because we are accustomed to play without meta - and our hilariously bad altguesses of each other has hindered games in the past - it makes perfect sense why SnowStorm wouldn't want to read any past games to get an unobjective PoV because that's how we're conditioned to play this game.
Uhh... Snowstorm definitely did not give me this impression when he said
In post 328, SnowStorm wrote:The idea I have of Mina's town play is that I usually agree with her and get early town reads on her, which hasn't happened in this game, though I don't think she has posted much? As for CES, I don't really know how to read him and the freshest memory I have of his play is when he managed to survive a whole game as scum without doing anything but voting without reason. So, I'm kinda worried about them, I'd like to see more from Mina.
In post 451, bvoigt wrote:Out of curiosity, is there data on this somewhere?
I could've sworn that there were some statistics somewhere (made by LlamaFluff, specifically), but they might have been eaten by the crash... This post is all that I could find wrt this argument.sa vrede?-
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In post 484, SnowStorm wrote:You still say you think I'm scummy, but you also "defend" me. You can tell the difference between our (not just mine but the other Westero's players') alignment and personality tells and you're the first to defend us if someone gets their tells wrong.
Any commentary on my reply to this?sa vrede?-
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In post 535, bvoigt wrote:Why do you want Starbuck to nameclaim? Until she's in danger of being lynched, it's antitown. If she was at L-1, we'd want to hear her name and flavor, but until then, all it does is give more information to the scum.
And to the town. Why did she claim VT? Because she volunteered to be chosen. If she was getting chosen, why not nameclaim, and if not, why claim VT? The thing is, even if her name gives us nothing, her doing so (or in this case, not doing so) gives us info.sa vrede?-
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In post 538, bvoigt wrote:For the moment, though, she's nowhere near being chosen. I just don't see how we can use her nameclaim to help us. Stefan, I don't think it's more dangerous, but it's still additional information for the scum.
Well, I guess that my point isn't that she should nameclaim but more that she's scum for not nameclaiming.
(also I don't think that scum gain more info from a nameclaim than townies do, especially if it's coupled with a VT claim, but I don't want to go rolefishing)sa vrede?-
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In post 599, greenknight wrote:Checking in.
I read MoI as town and agree with his early posts regarding Minimum. Same with Lyanna and the latest page of Tierce/MoS. I think the attacks on Starbuck for thinking that Choosing town is correct policy are weak, and there's likely opportunistic scum in there. I'll catch up on everything in the middle later.
Vote: Minimum
Choose: Feysal
That's fine and all, but how about some actual reasoning for the votes?sa vrede?-
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In post 1095, Regfan wrote:
Thanks for killing my town-read on you Staeg. Post 648 shows that Kortuls actually reading through the game super carefully looking for information, not just information to fabricate reasoning to vote people with but information that would better help him attain reads, it's a very town-motivated mindset and not one that scum take when replacing into a game. His overthrought in Post 795 about the usages of the second kill despite it being spoken by everyone prior to him comes across as him really wanting to state what's on his mind whereas as scum he'd know posting something such as that has potential for drawing fire towards him and know that there'd be no gaining in doing it. His Post 1000 is another townish-tell, previous post of his shows that he still suspects Snow despite his mason claim stating that the reasons he suspects him are still valid so him checking up on the likelihood of his claim being legitimate flavourish is very natural. His taking into account his reads on the wagons in Post 1073 is again a town-tell and his attempt to get more infromation on the bvoigt case is too. Also the fact that when reading through Shadow he didn't just state posts he disliked but also linked to one that he did in Post 1081 is a big town-tell, scum don't go into an ISO going 'how can i find them scum and town', not at all especially not when they're planning on voting the person.
The first tells are player-based tells, not alignment-based tells (I wouldn't do that as either alignment, tierce, on the other hand, probably would). Of the others, some are valid but don't cut it and other's aren't valid in multiball at all.sa vrede?-
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Alright. Um. The majority of my scumreads, great or small, have either been replaced and are either towning or are apparently masons. So um.
I agree with Sapor on most things (all except for the stefan scumread and my read on Feysal is more based on him soundingwrongin his posts than his ISO of GK) and the tone there is town (but Iec appears to be the only one playing and huge hydrabomb incoming etcetc)
GK&SS are masons
Shadow/Starbuck/Kortul can still die anytime
The kortul Choosewagon is not going through today; I could support a Feysal choose, I suppose, but I'd prefer a 666 one, seeing as he'll eventually be mislynched if he's town, and if not, he won't be of much use.
unvote
Vote: Shadow
Unchoose
Choose: 666
Haven't read Bvoight in ISO, but his posts haven't struck me as too bright or too townie, so I wouldn't weep if the lynch landed there.
Jesus, the fucking walls ;_;
In post 1163, Regfan wrote:Staeg, which of the things that I posted in Post 1108 are player-based tells on him and can you link me a single game of his that proves such because your continued vote on Kortul is disgusting, you should at least be able to read him and see there's significantly better targets to go to.
Okay, these are your towntells:
In post 1095, Regfan wrote:Post 648 shows that Kortuls actually reading through the game super carefully looking for information, not just information to fabricate reasoning to vote people with but information that would better help him attain reads, it's a very town-motivated mindset and not one that scum take when replacing into a game.His overthrought in Post 795 about the usages of the second kill despite it being spoken by everyone prior to him comes across as him really wanting to state what's on his mind whereas as scum he'd know posting something such as that has potential for drawing fire towards him and know that there'd be no gaining in doing it.His Post 1000 is another townish-tell, previous post of his shows that he still suspects Snow despite his mason claim stating that the reasons he suspects him are still valid so him checking up on the likelihood of his claim being legitimate flavourish is very natural.His taking into account his reads on the wagons in Post 1073 is again a town-tell and his attempt to get more infromation on the bvoigt case is too.Also the fact that when reading through Shadow he didn't just state posts he disliked but also linked to one that he did in Post 1081 is a big town-tell, scum don't go into an ISO going 'how can i find them scum and town', not at all especially not when they're planning on voting the person.
Underlined is multiball-invalid things, bold are player-based tells and italics are points I disagree that are towntells.sa vrede?-
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In post 1397, Saporerint wrote:Stefan is objectively the best lynch because Stefan has claimed VT 1 day before deadline. This is a no-brainer.
How about Starbuck the claimed VT?sa vrede?-
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In post 1400, Saporerint wrote:IIRC, Starbuck claimed VT a) on page 12 or something b) with no significant wagon (but a fair amount of rhetoric, mostly because she had some bizarre idea about the Choose mechanic). If you thought her VT claimmade her scum, then you probably should have wagoned her and maybe lynched her way back then, but it would be that you thought something about the claim made her scummy (e.g., the circumstances of the claim).
Claiming with a wagon is different. The only reason a claim should change things is if it's alignment-confirmable (e.g., Masons, Cop), and/or if it makes them scumbait (e.g., Vig). (Scum can WIFOM this, but it requires a risk on their part that I would welcome.)
Stefan claimed with a smaller wagon, but at 24 hours to deadline and with momentum, that may as well have been a full wagon.
- Iec
No, you said that this lynch was objectively better because he claimed VT. Starbuck had claimed VT earlier, with a less momentum on her wagon, but it was still there.
The thing is, you're trying to justify Steph as the objectively better lynch in a game of mafia. Almost nothing is objective in mafia.sa vrede?-
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In post 1413, Shinori wrote:Gettin scum reads on Staeg again. Partially meta based but also seems that when he is posting it's rarely ever a post that matters in the game. I could ask some random questions but it's not like that would help all that much.
Aha. What gave you a townread on me earlier on? Why, exactly, do my posts not matter?sa vrede?-
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In post 1464, mockingjaye wrote:Given the information shared by BB, I think anyone who is actively flying under the radar and trying not to make waves, especially at the end of the day, should be investigated; Shinori and Starbuck are already on my scumlist, but they fit into this pattern, and I'm adding MoS, Staeg, and Seraphim to this group as well.
How is BBm's information pointing to this, exactly?
By the way, on good terms with Cersei =/= Lannister Alliance Aligned and vice versa. If anything, Cersei's going to bring about the ruin of the Lannister Alliance, so being against her is not exactly anti-LA.sa vrede?-
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In post 1494, Shadow1psc wrote:But in all seriousness, you make more sense than I do this early in regards to that logic, so I'll concede. Sorry Stefan,
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Bvoigt
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Odd/Even vigs are probably as common as normal vigs. I don't think that's what DEdd's talking about, though.
So, anyway - I don't think DE is holycraptown. So, unless he actually says something useful, I'm not moving.
(no, that's not rolefishing - that's me diving headfirst into the rolelake with spear in hand)sa vrede?-
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In post 1526, Dolorous Edd wrote:In post 1522, Staeg wrote:I'm about to go to sleep, but: DEdd, if bvoigt flips town, will you selfvote tomorrow?
Of course not?
But it's much better than anything you have left to work with today, isn't it?
I was under the assumption that you had role info, because lynching a TWICE-CONFIRMABLE role is, uh, retarded?
Also I'm with tierce.sa vrede?-
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In post 1565, Lyanna Stark wrote:Since DCL turned up Stannis Faction, that means that it is multiball, right?
Staeg - what do you mean by you feel bad for Regfan?
I don't think so.
About, not for. Gut bad feelings.
BM, the town should still have a majority; why can't we organize?sa vrede?-
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In post 1639, Dolorous Edd wrote:In post 1636, Zdenek wrote:Yeah, a bv scum flip doesn't look good for Staeg. The first post looks like distancing and the second looks like gunning for town cred off a Bv scum flip, but he unvotes bv in his next post.
Yea, I also caught that, but in a somewhat different form. Yesterday:
Spoiler:
This interaction looks horrible, and he just looks like he is trying to avoid voting Bvoigt. However, if he really believed in what he was saying he wouldn't have changed his mind so quickly:
In post 1564, Staeg wrote:Yeah alright, explanations needed after what happened there
vote: bvoigt
Kinda feeling badsy about regfan, though
The back and forth and the weirdness in Staeg's read on Bv really looks bad for him.
Well
What happened at the start of the day was literally tired-me looking at the thread, going "woop, 666 was scum... hm, they opted to kill a mason... fuck, how did the other scumteam know which mason to kill on their own?" and then that didn't make sense, at which point I realized that it's A) not necessarily multiball B) 666's scumteam killed both masons C) bvoigt didn't vig anyone. So, a vig that didn't shoot should probably explain some things and a vote surely can't do any harm.
This is the point where I realize that we'd decided to have shadow torture bvoigt. That kinda locked the vote in but eh.sa vrede?-
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In post 1663, Plessiezarus wrote:(if bvoigt is the SK, for instance, it's no mystery that Shadow wasn't killed -- nobody who wanted Shadow dead had the chance to kill him, since bvoigt was being role-blocked
This can't be the case due to shadow's result.sa vrede?-
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In post 1770, Plessiezarus wrote:Staeg, did you suspect Stefan when you voted for him, or did you not?
No, I didn't - I had a weak townread on him, but it seemed like the best thing to do at the time with the deadline close and all.
Also, nacho, do tell how I can defend against "bad interactions"sa vrede?-
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In post 1518, Staeg wrote:Odd/Even vigs are probably as common as normal vigs. I don't think that's what DEdd's talking about, though.
So, anyway - I don't think DE is holycraptown. So, unless he actually says something useful, I'm not moving.
(no, that's not rolefishing - that's me diving headfirst into the rolelake with spear in hand)
This one's @DEdd.
Alright, so, yeah. I'd prefer to godhand plumamma.
Sapo gets in here and stuff
Shinori gets in here and stuff
Aaand I'm not actually sure who I'd want to vote.sa vrede?-
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Staeg Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 3154
- Joined: April 19, 2011
- Location: Latvia
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Staeg Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 3154
- Joined: April 19, 2011
- Location: Latvia
In post 1990, Shinori wrote:Earlier in your posts you said you felt bad about Regfan and voted BVO. Forgive me if I'm just playing bad, I probably am. Why did you state earlier that you felt bad about regfan in post 1564?
Gut+Role.
Do you still feel bad about him? What makes you feel bad about him?
Yes. Gut+Role.
Also, what is that supposed to mean in regards to you targeting him? To ward off all those pesky shitflingers? Were you doing something that would help give you a town read on him?
By that, I meant that I gave you the answer because if I didn't, someone would come along and be HERP A DERP STAG AINT CLAIMING HIS ACTION HOPING THAT SHINORIS JUST GAMBITING HERP. Yes.sa vrede?