Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Legacy (Game Over)

[AngryPidgeon]

Ok. VOTE: Tammy

Since we basically have follow the cop, I'm ok with this.

[AngryPidgeon]

I'm seriously at a loss here. The issue is that she is a thread to both teams and it benefits each team to let the OTHER team waste the lynch/kill on her.

So I don't know. I'm kind of leaning towards Benmage's logic that keeping her alive is high-risk high-reward and we don't necessarily need that. We're in a favorable position with the current flips and that Benmage will likely be able to get some nights of results back.

[AngryPidgeon]

And Yates, what the actual fuck. Where is this "Tammy is innocent" stuff even remotely coming from? How likely is it that there is a framer specifically and that Tammy was framed over (Me/Zabriel/You!).

If Benmage is wrong about what his role does, then I will be pretty shocked.

[AngryPidgeon]

I dunno. But Tammy is in a sort of kingmaker position if she wants it. Its definitely a high-risk / high-reward thing.

[AngryPidgeon]

You still never answered my question. Why didn't scum/SK Tammy shoot you instead of ThAd?

Because SK Tammy shooting COP BEN gets power lynched so hard she doesn't know what hit her. Duh??

The ONLY play for SK Tammy is to kind of go along with trying to look like a Dayvig.

[AngryPidgeon]

Just a thought, what if Tammy is BP? Isn't it common for SK's to typically be BP or investigation immune? It could explain the lack of kill.

[AngryPidgeon]

Assertion that Pidgey is scum: false.

Try again Mastin.

UNVOTE: Tammy
VOTE: Kise

Shameless counterwagon to pidgey wagon.

P-edit: Ben, why aren't you voting Tammy >.>

Congratz on your scum PM Elscouta.

[AngryPidgeon]

Wow, I do not know what to make of this recent explosion.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Tammy

Fine. I'm sold on the logic that it IS a high-risk/reward scenario (proof: Mastin is right that she provides a 2nd lynch, Ben is right that she isn't exactly trustworthy) that we dont necessarily need given that we are in a good situation. And I do not see why scum would kill her because the same logic applies: "Why NK her when the town will lynch her? Why lynch her when the scum team will NK her? Why ..." And if she was shot at last night, then she IS BP.

Mastin is still not scum.

Yates V Acosmist. I need to look at this more carefully when I have time.

Yates, you quoted my point earlier that she has to be an SK because otherwise she knows Ben is lying and would have shot him and said something about "exactly, this is my point blah blah" but you are still holding onto the opinion that she isn't an SK. Im confused.

Acosmist's motivation for wanting Tammy gone is clear (PGO or Scum). I don't see why scum Yates would do what he is doing here unless he is trying to buddy up to Mastin? But Mastin already has him as a townread, so IDK.

P-edit: KK, what is your read on Acosmist and Yates?

[AngryPidgeon]

But I thought you thought she was town. ^

[AngryPidgeon]

Not really though. It comes down to WIFOM.

"I am the dayvig and I have a townread on Acosmist. I don't care if you lynch me, Im shooting prob scum.

DayKill:

Day SK: Blood Covenent or something

"

"See if I were an SK I would have had to comply, yadda yadda"

I think the guilty is good enough. Occam's razor means Tammy is scum and needs to die.

[AngryPidgeon]

Its only 7 to lynch?

[AngryPidgeon]

Neighborized. That has nothing to do with the message you got?

[AngryPidgeon]

But thats derp-motivated, not scum-motivated?

[AngryPidgeon]

Zabriel, what is your current read on Mastin2 and Acosmist?

[AngryPidgeon]

Also, FFS Tammy name claim.

[AngryPidgeon]

By my count that is l - 2.

Tammy, are you on a team with BC?

[AngryPidgeon]

Yates, where can I find some of that delicious crack you are smoking? Why does people targeting her affect her alignment?

Pedir: Just saying if you flip nonSK scum, BC has to go.

[AngryPidgeon]

ITT: Yates assumes that Tammy would out an effective Cop (Nero Cain, since you are assuming he wouldn't be able to neighborize scum) and that there are 2 full blown cops then. Oh, and that she is TOWN outing a 2nd cop, but is unwilling to out the messenger for whatever reason.

[AngryPidgeon]

But how does it make Tammy town?

Im ok with thinking NC is town right now.

[AngryPidgeon]

You are at L - 2 and I think you know that.

[AngryPidgeon]

Did you share the message or its contents/sender with Nero?

This. Do that if you haven't.

[AngryPidgeon]

I need to not be so active when Im at work, lol..

I don't know the MGS universe as well s HP so I need to look that claim up.

[AngryPidgeon]

Mastin, what is your opinion on Yates recent posts?

P-edit: lol.

[AngryPidgeon]

Seriously, you know that if you are town that unless we knock out all the scum pretty early, you have to die because of your claim WIFOM, right?

And that's some of the reason people are irritated with you late day1 and early day2, because they expect more from a townie in your position.

I'm suddenly ok with a PV lynch.

[AngryPidgeon]

Seriously, you know that if you are town that unless we knock out all the scum pretty early, you have to die because of your claim WIFOM, right?

And that's some of the reason people are irritated with you late day1 and early day2, because they expect more from a townie in your position.

I'm suddenly ok with a PV lynch.

Does this mean you disagree with one or both of these statements?

No one has to die because of claim WIFOM. Do you think he is town or do you think he is scum? This PL all millers BS is almost always scum motivated.

And you are restating several peoples opinions to accomplish what? Im sure Acosmist is well aware that people are frustrated with his lack of participation. I flat out said I'd be willing to vote him for refusing to participate.

He at least appears to be trying today unlike the time frame you mentioned where he was basically saying "Ben is scum, hurrrr vote me"

So, do you think hes scum or not? The "He has to die for claiming PGO at some point" opinion is horrible.

[AngryPidgeon]

I don't understand why a PGO is also BP apparently ( you are assuming). That doesn't make sense to me.

[AngryPidgeon]

Tamy. Everyone is an unknown. Having everyone or even SOMEONE confirmed in a LyLo is very nice. But how is Acosmist different than a VT claim? If the VT claim isn't confirmed then you have 2 people, 2 claims, neither confirmed. Why does the PGO have to go before LyLo?

P-edit: Ive never played with a PGO. Wouldn't that be OP if he could sponge a scum NK, kill the scum and NOT die?

[AngryPidgeon]

PV, what is your Acosmist read?

P-edit: well based one what acosmist said about flavor, I doubt it would be instant.

[AngryPidgeon]

I guess it 'guarantees' he gets to LyLo for better for for worse, but I still don't think that justifies a PL. If he is playing scummy -> lynch him. If he isn't -> don't. What other roles do I have this policy for? Oh, RIGHT, ALL of them! Gosh silly me.

PV: So, read on Acosmist??

What did you misunderstand?

P-edit: LOL. Ya Tammy, you should have shot Ben, what were you thinking.

[AngryPidgeon]

Hi WC. Is tammy on your team?

[AngryPidgeon]

Just got back from gym.

FLEX YOUR BICEPS FOR US BEN.

But seriously I need to start going. I used to go at lucnh time, but there is no 24 hour in pleasanton. And I hate going at night.

[AngryPidgeon]

@WC: yes to both.

Also Benmage is claiming a full Cop role with a guilty on her.

[AngryPidgeon]

You're right. I forgot I moved my vote from BC to AP for uncomfortable buddying

[img=http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploa ... parrot.jpg]But I love you Yates.[/img]

[AngryPidgeon]

god damnit. Joke ruined by tags. Abort abort.

[AngryPidgeon]

But I love you Yates.

[AngryPidgeon]

If Tammy flips scum that isn't SK then I might buy that.

Why doesn't it clear Ben?

[AngryPidgeon]

I doubt it. If Ben is scum, then he is getting Venge-killed by Tammy's team super hard.

[AngryPidgeon]

And I strongly doubt scum-Ben has an investigative role if there aren't two teams. So ya.

[AngryPidgeon]

I've never played in a game this size before, but the lack of NK made me think it was borderline impossible.

I still don't think it is the case, but a Tammy flip would very likely confirm/deny it anyways, so I'm not going to beat my head against it too hard.

[AngryPidgeon]

^ Pretty much that.

Here's the killer question though. Why did Tammy talk about shooting your slot an awful lot and then decide to shoot Admiral on what was basically a whim and a hunch.

[AngryPidgeon]

Tammy is getting lynched. There isn't enough support for another wagon. And Shes conf-scum.

Why is tammy still alive

Welcome to HPATPL Mafia, where the scumreads are made up and the votes don't matter! Thats right the votes don't matter!

@Nero. Read it in context. Or don't. Its not that complicated of a point. And it really doesn't matter because the Tammy flip is a scum flip, and will also have the added bonus of resolving multiball spec for us!

I love how you called her scummy then also suggest Ben could be fakeclaiming. God. Keep your options more open, Nero! And you are NOW suspicious of Mastin? Not when he opened the Day by buddying you really hard? And started shoving wagons for dubious points all over?

[AngryPidgeon]

This game Day is not going anywhere. Tammy has a cop guilty on her. Her death resolves multiball spec.

[AngryPidgeon]

We need people realizing that in the absurdly low chance that we are in a multiball with a group with daykill, no sane mafia group will accept that the town directs his kill.

This is a good point actually. But I'm still weary about her not shooting BC for that reason. And Tammy hasn't outright said she will let us decide.

However, Aco and Zoro are both scum. Who the rest of the team are can be sorted out on future days. It's probably within those names, and I'd give heavy scrutiny to the Tammy wagon, which is (put bluntly) incredibly scumdriven.

Why are you more sure of the Aco read? I don't remember you caring too much about him.

Also, WC's blown any towncred BC had.

...Sec meeting starting.

[AngryPidgeon]

You're also stagnating the game with an issue that will cause a total smokescreen for which scum will hide behind. Tammy will be a recurring issue, today tomorrow, etc until she dies.

This is the reason I'm not moving my vote today. Today has degraded into a circlejerk of debating the risk/rewards of Tammy and the debate itself is anti-town. Lynch her and end it.

[AngryPidgeon]

FOS: Kublai Khan

[AngryPidgeon]

Ya, this whole situation is getting absurd. Everyone is just derping and vomiting accusations into the thread because people are/aren't voting the way they want.

KK: Honestly, have you been able to scumhunt at all today given that everyone is just being dumb? Why would you start a counterwagon right now to divide everyone even more? Tammy is the only lynch that won't stagnate the discussion on bullshit like this in the future. As long as Tammy is alive, the lynches are going to be shit.

P-edit: Ya KK needs to die Tomorrow.

[AngryPidgeon]

Strongly recommend investigating KK tonight.

[AngryPidgeon]

If we dont lynch tammy I bet we will have the exact same arguments until the end of the game.

[AngryPidgeon]

Except that acosmist is probably going to flip town. But at that point I would have support for KK maybe.

[AngryPidgeon]

@KK: No, there are too many unknowns right now and it really is a high risk / high reward scenario. The fact that the town is derping like mad over it makes it even less worth it.

But then WHEN do we lynch Tammy if not today? Are you assuming scum will try and NK prob BP Tammy?

[AngryPidgeon]

Everyone keeps talking about this BULLSHIT that Tammy has to 'play to her wincon'

She can do w/e the fuck she wants and shoot whoever she wants as long as she says "Well Im town, and I thought that person was scum. Im not going to shoot someone I think is town"

[AngryPidgeon]

Pushing the idea that she must be BP and so we should lynch her is a scummy argument.

Misrep. I'm legitimalte asking you. WHEN do we lynch her then? you keep saying that if she isn't lynched today, then the discussion ends and everyone is happy. Wrong. Unless you think scum are going to NK her, she WILL be here and she WILL distract from actually playing the game.

[AngryPidgeon]

Post 1855

Seriously Yates, the actual fuck are you talking about.

[AngryPidgeon]

did he shot a concensus of who everyone thought was a scum? Lol no.

[AngryPidgeon]

Oh look KK, Tammy ALREADY DIDN'T SHOOT WHO WE TOLD HER TO. GUESS TODAY IS THE DAY TO LYNCH HER, RIGHT? RIGHT!

[AngryPidgeon]

The only lynch I will actually accept today that isn't Tammy is WC.

[AngryPidgeon]

If Tammy flips team-scum, investigate wrath child.

Now:

[AngryPidgeon]

Nero, who do you want lynched today?

[AngryPidgeon]

Add him to the queue.

[AngryPidgeon]

"Tammy could be BP!"
-- Wild (anti-town) speculation. Who the fuck is crying over the idea of scum shooting kevlar?

Strawman. My point is that the scumteam will likely never kill her. As long as she is alive, we will probably have these arguments nonstop. And they are distracting from scum. You said that her not dying today stops the argument, which is cute. I don't know what makes you think that, but that is a huge assumption to make. And when DO we lynch her then? She isn't just going to resolver herself nicely like you keep implying.

"Tammy won't listen and will shoot wildly!"
-- Tammy doesn't have a choice. We don't need her permission for this. We point. She shoots. Or she dies.

Yes she does. She can say anything as long as she backs it up with "Im not shhoting X, I have a townread there. Im town so I wont shoot town". And if she IS on a team, then she absolutely will shoot whoever she wants before going out.

"We must lynch a guilty result!"
-- Dogmatic thinking is the shittiest reason to do anything. Stop playing mafia is this is your argument.

"We have to deal with the SK"
-- So does scum. Especially if the SK is helping town.

"She could be part of a faction!"
-- Great. We control that faction's kill while Tammy is alive. What's the problem?

Except we don't. If she is in a faction, she will trade herself for Benmage sooner than later because she can't risk outing a buddy by being told to shoot them.

Am I missing anything? Why is town still on Tammy's wagon?

The debates are anti-town and accomplish nothing. Tammy will not resolve herself nicely like you think. She could be on a team which giver her tons of motivation to go rogue sooner than later.

Mykonian, why do you think MoI is scum?

[AngryPidgeon]

Apparently he has past reasons for doubting Benmage's truthiness?

He is backing Ben's pony though. I would maybe revisit this if Tammy flips town (since he is lightly setting up to go after Benmage in that event), but if she doesn't then I don't see what is scummy about this.

[AngryPidgeon]

Why is the second scumteam theory so entrenched in you? There is zero evidence to support it. Occam's razor says SK.

Im saying its possible. The only reason Tammy has ANY reason to not just throw in the towel by now is if she is on a team. And Wrath Child is looking like an obvious Tammy buddy.

[AngryPidgeon]

But i wont say another fkn word since there is no reason to say anything since its what we've talked about for like 30 pages and it has not provided any new content and i believe that all the SK on leash and the stances everyone takes on it is something they'd take as town and as scum and it really isnt even a tell.

This. KK saying this is a scumtell is 100% BS. In fact, I really like Ben's PGO comparison.

KK, what is your opinion on MoI right now?

The point is that Tammy is still very actively trying to defend herself. If she is an SK, then SHE HAS ALREADY LOST. She is delaying the inevitable. Its possible shes really dedicated to that, but if I were a caught SK, I certainly wouldn't be playing like she is.

P-edit: And you (KK) keep ignoring how we have literally spammed the thread for 30 pages and got nothing out of it. (Except apparently all of the scum are presently on the Tammy wagon apparently).

[AngryPidgeon]

Why is the first question relevant? Answer to 2 is no.

[AngryPidgeon]

Also angry pigeon is scum.

Because I am supporting the Tammy wagon?

KK, if you are town, then get your head out of your ass. I'm the only person willing to standup to your bullshit (actively) and call your Acosmist wagon terrible. Your assertion that scum are all on the Tammy wagon is obvious bullshit.

I'll let Tammy live if she shoots KK.

[AngryPidgeon]

IIRC, you weren't interested in figuring out why Ben had an incorrect result back when that was happening.

P-edit: Its ok Kise, Im scum because Im opposing KK's view.

[AngryPidgeon]

IIRC, you weren't interested in figuring out why Ben had an incorrect result back when that was happening.

P-edit: Its ok Kise, Im scum because Im opposing KK's view.

Go back and read, you're playing revisionist with a lot of things. That's cute.

Fuck me if I can't recall what happened 30 paghes ago. But I remember being the one pressing Ben for flavor and asking him if his role said anything that could give a false positive. (Because no one else was).

[AngryPidgeon]

WIFOM, WOOOOO

[AngryPidgeon]

W/e, just tell it to Nero if you have daychat in the neighbor QT.

[AngryPidgeon]

Mykonian, are you scum?

[AngryPidgeon]

So you think MoI is town?

[AngryPidgeon]

Nero Cain is a neighborizer. He targeted Tammy last night.

[AngryPidgeon]

I don't like that Mykonian ignored my inquiry.

[AngryPidgeon]

I just asked if you were scum.

So I mean it wasn't a 100% serious question, but typically people respond to it.

Bullet points on why Pidgey is scum?

Why did you decide to hop off the Tammy wagon?

Read on KK?

[AngryPidgeon]

This pidgey counterwagon is both scumlead and a counterwagon.

And FFs what is the case on him? Lurking and not contributing? There are SO many offenders in that department.

[AngryPidgeon]

Like seriously, logic. Please use it.

1. Claimed cop has a guilty on you.
2. Discussion about you is proving Anti-town.

[AngryPidgeon]

Stop discussing me and making up stupid reasons about me being targeted and start damn scum hunting. I love how I'm pretty much the on,y one actually scumhunting today when I'm about to be lynched.

I dunno, I think KK and Mykonian are prob scum now.

[AngryPidgeon]

Breaking news: We have 3 days left and a boatload of active lurkers. I'm not voting Pidgey.

[AngryPidgeon]

So you unvoted a Cop Guilty that you aren’t disputing because it may put you on Evens. In a Large Theme game with 18 players left. When possible protections may over the course of the many days to come mess with the numbers? Nope.jpg. Add in that you seem to explicitly know that only 1 Scum Nightkill exists (since your assessment is driven by that as a fact) and I think the obvious result is scum.

This. IIRC Mykonian, didn't you compare this to a 6p lylo scenario >.>. This is not an even remotely compelling reason to hop off Tammy and now you are prancing around as if you wanted Tammy alive the whole time...all because of this?

2. OMGUS isn’t a scum-tell.

MoI, I think I like you. (This is in fact a reverse OMGUS buddying attempt)

The fact that Tammy is a claimed SK puts this beyond "hurr durr there is a guilty we lynch it". It allows you to think for once. I suggest you try it, it seems thinking makes you more clever.

Then why were you voting her until the even logic came up?

Seriously, a scum team that can't even pull off a N1 kill is of no threat

UNVOTE:
VOTE: WrathChild
CAN WE AT LEAST DO THIS OVER PIDGEY. WC IS CLEARLY SCUM FFS.

If a night team exists and has already been foiled N1, there is a good chance they will be foiled again tonight.

WHY DID YOU SAY THIS?

Benmage may be alive in the morning with a result we can trust, only IF we lynch Tammy.

HOW DID YOU REACH THIS CONCLUSION?

Ya, Mykonian/WrathChild are the best bets right now. Pidgey wagon is made of derp. Hes so obvtown it hurts.

THOSE KEEPING TAMMY ALIVE: Who would you have her shoot tomorrow? Cast your votes now.

Wrath Child. Alternatively Mykonian or KK.

P-edit: wow, tons of posts. reading.

[AngryPidgeon]

I think the true irony is that people want to use Tammy as a double-day and we are about to No Lynch because of the entire situation.

A VC would be awesome.

Town:
MoI
Pidgey
Mastin
Acosmist
Ben
PV

Scum:
WrathChild
Mykonian
Kublai Khan
Tammy

Unsure: Yates, Elscouta (actually leaning town here I think), Zabriel (power lurking in a bad way)

Kise/Jason are becoming lesser reads. Snifit too, almost forgot about him.

[AngryPidgeon]

Well we have about 46 hours. At this point I'm going to vote for Tammy if we are approaching no lynch. Not willing to vote anyone on my town list.

[AngryPidgeon]

discrediting mykonian,

Ok, Mykonian is scumming up the thread like a boss right now. MoI tunneling him is not scummy. Just look at his interactions with the Tammy wagon.

Ya, lets lynch Tammy!
Oops, I mean we should use her to get back to odds (IN A LARGE THEME ON D2), so lets wagon someone else!

And when questioned about this,

Oh! I'm not taking the whole Tammy thing seriously at all; I really don't care!
And IIRC he has been pretending that the whole not-lynch-Tammy plan was good from the start. He definitely flip-floped on his reasons for getting off the Tammy wagon.

To quote MoI: nope.jpg.

If you want to accuse me of being scummy for discrediting Mykonian, go ahead. But, seriously, ISO him and tell me that his stance on Tammy makes one iota of sense.

And the HILARIOUS part of saying that MoI is discrediting people is, gasp, you are discrediting MoI! Prove that MoI was discrediting people. His Mykonian suspicions at least are legitimate. I don't think hes right about you, but I honestly can see him being suspicious given whats happened.

[AngryPidgeon]

Blatantly wrong things in the MoI case:
Assertion that MoI is smearing people and discrediting them: subjective, false.
Assertion that MoI is scum for voting Tammy: false.
Assertion that MoI is not playing to his town meta: Meta is bullshit, false.

[AngryPidgeon]

@KK: Mykonian is scum for his bullshit re Tammy. Check my ISO.
You are scum because of your opinions on the Tammy wagon. You are trying to spread dissension and bullshit under the guise of logic. You keep repeatedly ignoring my point that the Tammy discussion is ultimately anti-town and just keep stirring the pot and calling everyone on the wagon scum at various points. You implied that all the lurkers on the wagon are scum coasting who have given up arguing 'good logic'. Then you said that I am scum for still fighting the good fight. (Note that you don't think Benmage is scum, just derp which is a double standard). And now MoI is scum for having opinions.

This is becoming a disgusting trend in my ongoings that people (read Mastin, since KK is probably scum) need to get: OPINIONS ON MAFIA THEORY ARE NOT SCUMTELLS.

And yes I'm aware I'm giving Mastin a pass here. But I kind of expect this zealotry from Mastin TBH. And you are lightly buddying him and fading into the background.

So, why are you voting MoI? Read on Mykonian?

P-edit: I will vote Tammy before I go to sleep tonight if she is the leading wagon.

[AngryPidgeon]

Wow. You wrote "OPINIONS ON MAFIA THEORY ARE NOT SCUMTELLS" in all caps after saying that I'm "trying to spread dissension and bullshit under the guide of logic".

Fucking wow.

I don't see the issue.

I find you using opinions on mafia theory as a scumtell to be scummy. You are saying that anyone who disagrees with you is scummy. And yes, Mastin is doing that too, I know.

Seriously, MoI is the only person to make any remotely reasonable post in the hurricane of BS today. And you are voting him.

And no Im not arguing a hypothetical, I'm lynching scum. You are in fact arguing the hypothetical that she is definitely an SK to support doing something counterintuitive (not lynching scum). 2 way street man.

VOTE: Tammy

I find it hard to believe that as town you think that all scum are exactly as competent and arrogant as you are.

What does this mean? MoI is the only person making the point that scum are probably scattered and not 100% on/off the wagon. (Actually Benmage may have too).

[AngryPidgeon]

Mykonian, read on Kublai?

[AngryPidgeon]

But this isn't laughable. Mafia love to jump on a cop's guilty bandwagon. It's the safest possible reason to wagon someone.

Gee, and town DOESN'T like to hop on cop guilty bandwagons? >.> <.< >.> <.< >.> <.< >.>

Not totally caught up, at work.

[AngryPidgeon]

Spoiler: Mastin and MoI

YAWN. Mykonian is scum. KK is scum. Tammy is confscum. WC is still scum. Game in bag. Also, 21 hours to lynch.

[AngryPidgeon]

Serious RE MoI/Mastin walls:

You are both so obviously town its ridiculous. I cannot even remotely understand what is going on here. Its like Mastin is desperate to lynch SOMEONE that isn't Tammy and I just don't even. And MoI is misinterpreting derp as scum.

The claiming was a horrible idea and the 1v1 is retarded. Stahp!

Edit: We did it! Tammy 2012!

Investigate KK or Mykonian or WC. GfG.

Edit edit: Tammy, you an SK?

[AngryPidgeon]

Naw, pidgey is town.

Also we are bird brothers or "the birds" as Mastin called us.

[AngryPidgeon]

Pidgey, we aren't causing enough drama this game. You should threaten to 1v1 me. I'll make a meta case on you not dropping enough f-bombs. You make a few posts that are basically OMGUS, and we'll meet back here at half-past 5?

[AngryPidgeon]

@Kise: Why am I town?
@Nero: Who did you target?
If someone got a message last night, I think they should claim it.

Vote: AngryPidgeon

Why AP?

I don't really know where to go from here. Yesterday and last night panned out as my worst case scenario.

Read on Mykonian? Is Acosmist still your favorite pony today?

KK hopped off midway, I can't think of anyone else besides the players who were always off Tammy. Mastin.

I was briefly on/off. Why did you mention Mastin here?

BRB gym.

Its ok, pidgey is a Benmage alt apparently. ^ ^

[AngryPidgeon]

myk suggested that the cop be shot down quick.

Not true. He was saying the same thing I was. (If tammy, is town she would have shot Benmage -> she is scum). Hes still scum, but just saying. Trying to say that Mykonian was hoping to save the NK is kind of a reach. If you are going to push him for this, the you are ignoring that I was basically holding the same opinion.

The

mafia would have liked it very much

to have her shoot the cop,

lynch her,

Do you think lynching Tammy was pro-scum?

Tammy was my townread going out of day 1. That helps it make sense, I think.

Were you quite certain that Ben was scum and lying then? I thought you agreed with me in the thread about the above point ^^^. Do you still think pidgey is scum?

@KK: Who did you suspect for suggesting 2 scum teams (other than me)? Do you still think that suggesting 2 teams was scummy given that Tammy flipped SK?

and if he were another scum faction he'd be pushing for her death with the rest of the town

So you agree with Mastin that most (all) scum were on the Tammy wagon? Read on Acosmist?

[AngryPidgeon]

Spoiler: Tammy is the leading wagon by far

Votecount 2.11

"From the moment we're thrown into this world, we're fated to bring each other nothing but pain and misery." -Psycho Mantis, Metal Gear Solid

Tammy - 8 (snifit, Acosmist, Kise, Benmage, Kublai Khan, AngryPidgeon, pidgey, mykonian)
Kise - 1 (mastin2)
WrathChild - 1 (Tammy)

Not voting - zabriel, WrathChild, PeregrineV, Zoroaster, jasonT1981, Elscouta, Nero Cain, Yates

With 18 alive it takes 10 to lynch.

The deadline for Day 2 is 3 PM EST on November 15, 2012.

and now I'm thinking

Aco deserves another look for lining up lynches.

Zabriel calls Acosmist scummy for lining up lynches.

Spoiler: Acosmist counter wagon going choo choo

Votecount 2.13

"This is the liberty we've won for ourselves: Outer Haven! And with this weapon I will destroy JD! Then, everything ends, and everything begins! But as for you, brother, you'll stay here to mark this island's watery grave!" -Liquid Ocelot, Metal Gear Solid 4

Tammy - 8 (snifit, Acosmist, Kise, Benmage, AngryPidgeon, pidgey, mykonian, WrathChild)

Acosmist - 4 (Kublai Khan, Yates, Elscouta, mastin2)

WrathChild - 1 (Tammy)

Not voting - zabriel, PeregrineV, Zoroaster, jasonT1981, Nero Cain

mastin2 is V/LA until Monday

With 18 alive it takes 10 to lynch.

The deadline for Day 2 is 3 PM EST on November 15, 2012.

Not sure what's going on anymore.

Still don't care for the Tammy wagon. I'm not really sure about Aco.

Who is WC again?

What did you mean here? Why do you not care about the Acosmist wagon, despite previously calling him scummy and repeatedly voicing opposition to the tammy wagon (to which the Acosmist wagon was a CW?)

Spoiler: Acosmist wagon still the only counter wagon

Votecount 2.14

"You stupid elf, you could have killed me!" -Bellatrix Lestrange
"Dobby never meant to kill! Dobby only meant to maim, or seriously injure." -Dobby, Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows

Tammy - 8 (snifit, Acosmist, Kise, Benmage, AngryPidgeon, pidgey, mykonian, WrathChild)

Acosmist - 4 (Kublai Khan, Yates, Elscouta, mastin2)

WrathChild - 1 (Tammy)

Not voting - zabriel, PeregrineV, MagnaofIllusion, jasonT1981, Nero Cain

mastin2 is V/LA until Monday

With 18 alive it takes 10 to lynch.

The deadline for Day 2 is 3 PM EST on November 15, 2012.

Unless we do have multiball going on, KK is town now. His last two posts are very logical and sensible.

Also, never considered that Ben might be a lyncher. Interesting idea KK.

Zabriel still not voting.

Spoiler: Acosmist is still the only counterwagon

Votecount 2.15

"I am prepared to face the consequences of my betrayal." -President Johnson, Metal Gear Solid 2

Tammy - 8 (snifit, Acosmist, Kise, Benmage, AngryPidgeon, pidgey, mykonian, WrathChild)

Acosmist - 4 (Kublai Khan, Yates, Elscouta, mastin2)

WrathChild - 1 (Tammy)
Kise - 1 (jasonT1981)

Not voting - zabriel, PeregrineV, MagnaofIllusion, Nero Cain

mastin2 is V/LA until Monday

With 18 alive it takes 10 to lynch.

The deadline for Day 2 is 3 PM EST on November 15, 2012.

Tammy, is your power compulsive? Do you have to shoot every day? Can you shoot more than once per day?

Zabriel still not voting.

Spoiler: Elscouta starts a pidgey wagon

Votecount 2.16

"I'm going to kill you, Harry Potter. I'm going to destroy you. After tonight, no one will ever again question my power. After tonight if they speak of you, they'll only speak of how you begged for death. And how I being a merciful Lord... obliged." -Voldemort, Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire

Tammy - 8 (snifit, Acosmist, Kise, Benmage, AngryPidgeon, pidgey, mykonian, WrathChild)

Acosmist - 3 (Kublai Khan, Yates, mastin2)

WrathChild - 1 (Tammy)
Kise - 1 (jasonT1981)

pidgey - 1 (Elscouta)

Not voting - zabriel, PeregrineV, MagnaofIllusion, Nero Cain

mastin2 is V/LA until Monday

With 18 alive it takes 10 to lynch.

The deadline for Day 2 is 3 PM EST on November 15, 2012.

We would get some information out of a Tammy lynch, but I still think having a town-directed day kill is going to benefit us

. I still think shenanigans, but even if the day mafia multiball suspicion is right, leaving Tammy alive effectively neuters her hypothetical scum team, since an unauthorized daykill is going to get her lynched on principle. I'd rather we move onto other scum suspects and let scum decide what to do with her. Even if we don't "need" the kill, it's a threat to scum, and she'll eventually take a bullet for the town. At the very least, we can use Tammy as a meat shield since there's at least one scum faction that needs her dead regardless of her alignment.

Of the people with votes, I guess pidgey is the person I'm most comfortable voting for

. I had KK down as scum earlier, but I like his thoughts on Tammy, mostly because I don't think he'd defend a sinking ship if they were teammates, and if he were another scum faction he'd be pushing for her death with the rest of the town. I'm pretty sure that whatever Tammy is KK is town now.

VOTE: pidgey

I dont recall you mentioning pidgey before this. Why did you think pidgey was a better vote than Acosmist? Did you no longer think Acosmist was scummy, or even PL worthy? You keep impling in all these posts that Tammy is a terrible wagon and that we should wagon someone else, buy you avoided the main CW (Acosmist) the whole time until a 2nd CW started.

Spoiler: Acosmist wagon has more votes, but the Tammy counterwagons are split

Votecount 2.17

"I'm no hero... never was. I'm just an old killer, hired to do some wet work." -Solid Snake, Metal Gear Solid 4

Tammy - 9 (snifit, Acosmist, Kise, Benmage, AngryPidgeon, pidgey, mykonian, WrathChild, MagnaofIllusion)

Acosmist - 3 (Kublai Khan, Yates, mastin2)

pidgey - 2 (Elscouta, zabriel)

WrathChild - 1 (Tammy)
Kise - 1 (jasonT1981)

Not voting - PeregrineV, Nero Cain

WrathChild has recieved his first prod.

mastin2 is V/LA until Monday

With 18 alive it takes 10 to lynch.

The deadline for Day 2 is 3 PM EST on November 15, 2012.

Do you still think Pidgey is scum?

[AngryPidgeon]

And going back to when I said AV's buddies would be quieter with him shot

Why would AV's buddies be inclined to lurk because he died? Not quite sure why they would lurk since Tammy was apparently shooting lurkers.

Very true. Check again. This is him telling her to shoot Ben.

I need to look that sequence up in his/my ISO. I thought I asked him about it at the time and he said he was thinking the same thing I was (SK Tammy wouldn't shoot Ben under any reasonable circumstances)

She should shoot that if she's town.

I guess I kind of see the motivation here. Its like saying "Tammy, shoot cop Ben for me and I'll give you towncred!". Originally I read it like "Tammy has to be scum because she hasn't auto-shot Ben"...Which was my opinion anyhow.

I may be reaching, but if he's scum for real then it's not reaching at all, right?

Unless you are throwing him under the bus aggressively

But I don't think thats the case.

Re Kill benefiting what team: ok.

I think before you said that you never actually found me scummy, but just really disliked IaI. Only thing I slightly dislike is you are kind of basing me = town on Myk/KK=scum, but, eh.

What make you so confident? Have you already been so confident before? Have you already been so confident and failed?

Trust me, confidence is a null tell for Mastin. In mini 1377 he made wall after wall about FancyPants and how he was like 100% guaranteed scum and then after FP flipped VT, mastin did not even mention anything about how wrong he was. It made me think he was scum at the time. What makes Mastin so confident? Dunno, but at least I can answer the 2nd Q for you

What changed your mind on pidgey, exactly?

[AngryPidgeon]

Pveeeeeeee, comment on my Zab wall.

I see you onsite

[AngryPidgeon]

Ok, Im at work. Cant quote-reply to everything.

@MoI: Why are you voting? Im weighing my options. The Zab ISO looked really scummy and his "Acosmist is still a good PL" reply Today was just icing on that cog-dis cake. Mykonian is my other choice. Elscouta/KK are light alternatives right now.

Mastin is creeping into my peripherals. Him getting hung up on the Tammy lynch instead of pushing full speed ahead is making me a little uncomfortable (Even if Acosmist kind of pinged him). Also this:

We're in the exact same boat as we were yesterday. Only, now there's no cop, and now there's no second lynch. We're no closer to finding scum, because we have ZERO information today that we did not possess yesterday. We knew Tammy was a day-SK. We knew Benmage was a cop. We knew his result. So what, exactly, do we have today that wasn't there yesterday?

is giving me the heebie-jeebies. Mastin, aren't you speculating HEAVILY on where the scumteam is based off of wagon analysis from Yesterday? How much stock are you actually putting in that? Because you sounded extremely confident that you had the scum PoE'd down to a moderate pool based off THE TAMMY LYNCH and what it told you.

@Elscouta: Read on Mastin/MoI?

@Mykonian: Why is Mastin town? Read on Zabriel/Acosmist?

@Acosmist: I asked him. He said you are a good PL today, knowing what we do. Which lightly contradicts him calling you scum. And totally contradicts him disliking your wagon, calling for a CW to Tammy, and refusing to hop on one until pidgey finally got a singular vote from Elscouta. And seriously, Acosmist is not a good PL right now. End of D1? Yes. Now? Not as much. So not sure why he thinks you are a good PL.

@Zab: Why is Acosmist a good PL? Who is scum?

P-edit: "The one thing I lost was any chance of being NK'd, since I'm now a claimed VT locked into a 1V1 with

another player

"
Word choice interesting.

[AngryPidgeon]

getting caught in an awkward situation later in the game.

What awkward situation? We don't have a cop anymore. If you make it to lylo with Acosmist and a claimed VT (lets say Mastin, since he is a claimed VT), who do you lynch? Acosmist? Mastin? Does the PGO claim make any difference at that point?

Plus Acosmist is actually MORE verifiable than a VT claim if someone targets him. So wherefore do you hols this opinion? I know I argued this with tammy before. Fun fact: Tammy was scum.

[AngryPidgeon]

I don't want to waste time with more semantic arguments again.

OK, then I won't respond to your semantic argument.

My question I guess morphs into the following – if Zab is a slam-dunk scum lynch why aren’t you voting him?

Mykonian/Zab are both equally good IMO.

I just want everyone to check in first before I start shoving one. And I want to see which has more support. The worst thing that can happen would be wagoning Zab and having some derp wagon (like yours) take off because the only people on Zab are me/Acosmist.
Meh.
VOTE: Mykonian

Not caught up. Like the Acos posts on skim.

[AngryPidgeon]

Mastin...you scum?

This you v MoI back and forth is awfully waffly (even for you) and Im having trouble believing that town you would be 100% unwilling to compromise on the lynch right now.

Opinion on my Zab case? (Oh right, he was

buddying you, lurking and taking a waffly-as-shit stance on the Tammy wagon, buddying KK, actively doing something that might look less scummy,

obviously town for not voting Tammy). Now please ISO him (or read my case) and tell me you see town motivation in his D2 play.

P-edit: I hate you guys for walling during weekdays.

[AngryPidgeon]

Ya Elscouta is scum. Propagating this 1v1 and pushing MoI on a derp technicality is really awful. Especially since he said MoI is null / Mastin is scum just a few posts ago.

Elscouta, top 3 scumreads? If Mastin/MoI flip town today, would you push the other Tomorrow?

[AngryPidgeon]

You honestly think that MoI/Mastin could both be scum?

[AngryPidgeon]

(By the way, I'm absolutely convinced the messenger is town. I kinda got the impression they assumed their name would be sent with the message, even though it's anonymous. Their list of reads to me does look like town as well, so when the messenger does claim, they're conftown. And as a hint, they're not anybody I've been pushing.)

inb4 messenger is MoI. that would be sweet sweet sugary lolz.

How is MoI being survivalistic? He is shoving a scum read wagon. I mean...I GUESS that could be a way to divert attention as scum, but its also a way for town to get their scumreads lynched. So that is a poor argument if it is your argument.

[AngryPidgeon]

Wait who got the message last night? It was MoI wasnt it? derp. Oh well, would have been hilarious.

[AngryPidgeon]

Oh. Right it was Mastin.

In fact, he narrowed the messenger pool down really hardcore with is post just now. Lol.

[AngryPidgeon]

So your argument that Zab is scum because Tammy was "scum" is not only baseless but flat out wrong.

I wasn't making that argument. I was just being cheeky. But I do still want him to explain why he thinks that Acosmist needs to go before lylo. With original thought. I feel like hes just parroting a popular opinion. And I want him to explain why he believes it (other than Tammy holding the same opinion).

Wasn't it you QQing about people answering questions for others earlier this game?

And who gives a shit about Acosmist once saying that he isnt _technically_ an exact PGO. Do you honestly think that was a slip? If Acosmist corrected someone every time they called him a PGO, I'd policy lynch the shit out of him for being annoying.

[AngryPidgeon]

@Angry- Compare zab this game to Zab here. The play seems not the same, so first inclination is that alignment not the same.

Why so? And you know that I don't do meta cases. Or do you? I don't do meta cases.

And Mastin is not making sense >.>

His MoI push is 90% of what he has been posting and his MoI case is at the least desperate and at the most scum.

Read on Mykonian? Read on Acosmist?

[AngryPidgeon]

He back peddled on his claim to pretend he had the ability to kill a Day Vig/Day SK

I must have missed that? I'll skim for it. Context is everything I guess.

No, you don't need sleep for things like this. I see this so often, in every kind of game. The more excuses you have to make for someone, the more likely he's scum. Simple as that.

wow, dat reaching. And nice way to step into Yates Vs MoI. Do you want Yates to vote MoI or not? Or are you just trying to get MoI to focus on him instead?

Third we have the opinion that Mykonian is an ‘easy lynch’.

I'd like an answer to this. Why is Mykonian an easy lynch? Hes not at all a noob and IIRC the only people super into this wagon are me/MoI.

And how has MoI not been doing anything? He has made at least a couple Mykonian cases and keeps calling for votes on him.

This is scummy given there was a guilty on Tammy

and you mention nothing about Acosmist being scummy but just ‘not strong’. We already are clear that we disagree on the Tammy lynch and I find this reasoning suspect. I'd like to know what your standard of "not strong" is since given the lack of scum lynches so far I don't know that you can call any Town player (other than Ben, who is dead) as being strong today.

So you are going to say that everyone off the Tammy wagon was scummy? I mean I agree that Elscouta/Mykonian/KK are, but I don't think being on either side of the Tammy fence is a good alignment indicator.

Ok this game is going faster than I can post. The only wagons I can support tight now are Mykonian/Zabriel/Elscouta. Prefer first two over Elscouta right now.

2491 is the biggest waffle I've ever seen. Guys, we are somehow derping harder with

Mastin on Vla

. Finger of shame on everyone here.

@MoI: Acosmist was the leading counterwagon when you replaced in.
@Yates: MoI said he thought Acosmist was probably town. Why would MoI necessarily comment on his lynch then? He clearly wanted Tammy and didn't want Acosmist. I think this technicality is similarly pedantic to Acosmist's point on you re fake-claim spec. Don't you?
@Mykonian: Read on Elscouta? Remind me why you are voting MoI?

[AngryPidgeon]

Where did Yates lie?

[AngryPidgeon]

LOL @Acosmist - Quote 2451 is actually the truth and verifiable.
I thought you were going to hang me on the fact I said MoI was here for post 1855 when he didn't actually replace in until 1946. That's the only "lie" I told.

Caught for the wrong reasons tell?

Ok, no, no NO.

Mastin V MoI was fucking stupid enough without any help.

Can we PLEASE agree on a good scum wagon? Zabriel? Elscouta?

[AngryPidgeon]

@Yates: Who are your other scum reads? You said you didn't particularly like an Acosmist vote earlier.
Did you read my Zabriel wall? Thoughts?

[AngryPidgeon]

I've been trying to avoid a head-on confrontation, a wall-to-wall battle, for exactly this reason: Because it makes people think townVtown, when it's not. Yes, I'm obvtown, but...

Myk, easy enough; people didn't like his predecessor

IIRC, everyone said Shah was obvtown. Some people didn't like Myk's Melmond hammer. And some (me included) didn't like his unexplainable lie wrt lynching Tammy.

and giving contents of the message can help the scum identify who the messenger is.

But you already narrowed down the messenger pool heavily >.>

Aco, on the other hand, has been consistently OMGUS'ing the entire game. No, seriously. Name one suspect. ONE. I dare you to. That Aco has attacked. Who didn't attack him first. I can't really think of any, since every time Aco attacks someone, it comes after that player has attacked him. Never before.

OMGUS isn't a scumtell though.

Ok, lets not talk about Tammy. (Except that Mykonian's stance on it was obviously fake and he deserves death for that alone). But, in general, people's opinion on the correct play wrt Tammy is not alignment indicative. And Tammy may or may not have cooperated. Both sides of the argument are valid and NOT indicative of alignment. I'm goign to start calling for a PL on anyone somkescreening with more Tammy lynch spec. Mastin, is there no way I can convince you to lynch Mykonian today? He won't flip town. And a scum flip from him essentially clears MoI.

[AngryPidgeon]

Zabriel, what wagon do you most support right now?

Why is Acosmist PL worthy?

[AngryPidgeon]

Hi Cheery!

[AngryPidgeon]

@Mastin: Mykonian is more scummy for encouraging Tammy to shoot Benmage. Confirm/Deny?

[AngryPidgeon]

Ya, Elscouta is faking frustration. I do not see town doing what he is doing. And his cog-dis behind wanting MoI v Mastin to happen, refusing to read MoI posts, and calling MoI v Mastin a waste of time is sexy.

VOTE: Elscouta

[AngryPidgeon]

@ACO-What is your kill flavor?

Can we PLEASE agree on a good scum wagon? Zabriel? Elscouta?

so MYK isn't scum?

mykonian - 3 (Kise, MagnaofIllusion,

AngryPidgeon

)

So why are you on this wagon AP?

:/

Obviously Mykonian is a good vote. I've been pushing that wagon all Day and no one was biting. Im trying to get Acosmist/Yates/Mastin to stop being dumb (or in Mastin's case possibly scum) and agree on a good lynch. Mykonian SHOULD happen, but I don't think it has enough support. Ask me how my Elscouta compromise wagon is going.

What are your top 3 picks for scum?

[AngryPidgeon]

I think I might need to go read some more pages, I'm not sure who I want to.be siding with after just reading the last 4.

This post is scummy. Which of course means you are town, because I always think you are scummy and you never are >.>

But why are you thinking about who to side with and not who to vote for?

[AngryPidgeon]

its instant.

So you are a Town Neighborizor who can’t ever be blocked?

You must be connecting the dots like me.

I want Nero to confirm more town before I call for his head though.

What am I missing here?

[AngryPidgeon]

Then, he started questionning me about mykonian to distract me, and after a few pages of back-and-forth, I determined that he was worthy of today lynch.

Isn't it also possible hes trying to get you to lynch

your buddy

Mykonian?

But you KNOW that hes trying to distract you? :/ I know Im giving Mastin a light pass for saying that MoI is doing nothing but misrepping, but doesn't MoI doing that make sense for either alignment?

RE Cheery: I think hes town. (And yes thats because hes on my wagon). Coming in and declaring intent to sheep is probably not something scum Cheery would do.

HI KK: I almost feel that we could be friends in another world. Why is Elscouta town? His opinions on MoI and Mastin could not be more fake and his reaction to being called out was a hefty dose of bullshit.

Pretty much what MoI said in 2581. Elscouta is not town and his opinions/reads show that much.

Acosmist, you should help us lynch Elscouta. Yates, you should help us lynch Elscouta.

Elscouta, read on Mykonian?

[AngryPidgeon]

Ding, ding. ^ scum post.

MoI is scum right? Because he is construing and misrepping and herping the derp and lynching pro-town roles! So why is Acosmist setting up for an MoI lynch worthy of a blanket comment about bad policy by you? Do you think Acosmist is scummy for that comment? Apparently not judging by 2609, which of course brings your dislike of his MoI push into question (along with all of your other opinions).

TL;durrr: If you were town, you would have embraced support for you pony

P-edit: ninja'd reading.

[AngryPidgeon]

However, I call him scum for

lying yesterday

, and I'm adding now that from all his posts, it is clear for me that he is not looking at my

motivations

, but only about finding flaws (supposed or real) that will allow him to lynch me. From an experienced player, this is a scumtell.

About 1v1ing Mastin?

Ok, on the topic of your motivations, why were you interested in seeing MoI V Mastin happen today? Why did you vote MoI despite not thinking he was scum yesterday (and in fact suspecting Mastin more)?

He didn't declare intent to sheep

. He said he was voting me for a RVS reason. That's absurd, and most likely a lie.

therefore

I'm going to side with someone and sheep their wagon

Its ok, Cheery's ISO is pretty long. I understand that this got buried.

Why wouldn't I care about your Mykonian read? I always ask my scumreads about each other.

Ok, why Acosmist then?

P-edit: Why? I don't think hes scum and Im not willing to PL PGO/miller claims on principal. The only actual case on Acosmist was Yates's "He's a PGO! He's not a PGO! He doesn't want to get shot by Tammy! Hes clearly backpedaling!"

[AngryPidgeon]

Oh, what is the etiquette about Sigging things from an ongoing game? This made me laugh:

So … is this another one of those cases where you are going to go “Oops, wrong facts” and backpedal?

[AngryPidgeon]

Why wouldn't I care about your Mykonian read? I always ask my scumreads about each other.

what makes this game special then?

vote pidgeon

What?

[AngryPidgeon]

In 2508 you said “Can we PLEASE agree on a good scum wagon? Zabriel? Elscouta?” But you are voting for Myk in the latest vote count so why was his name left out of 2508? And gimmie a bullet on why you think myk is scum.

I was voting him, I felt it went without saying.

- Originally wanted a Tammy lynch
- Cited evens/odds balance as reason for hopping off the wagon
- Later backpedaled when someone (MoI?) pointed out that we would be in odds by lynching Tammy

Also now turning away Acosmist's theoretical support for an MoI lynch (despite him being Myk's top scumspect?)

Waffling.

[AngryPidgeon]

My top 3 scum reads are you, Myk, and zab but with you voting Myk it looks like I’m wrong about one of you.

This is a BS reason to clear someone. (But I am town, and Myk isnt)

Did you not use your role last night? Is it X-shot?

Ya, MoI can you explain your point about Nero telling Tammy not to shoot Ben? I don't see whats scummy about that.

Why Ascomist?

- fishy claim
- absence of scumhunting during days 1 and 2
- faked a "can we replace Elscouta" (that I consider a hint that he knows i'm not faking my opinion on MoI)
- now prepares a chain-lynch on MoI after I turn town (which is even worse given the fact that i'm at least on his slightly scum list)

1. Just because its a PGO claim? Or is there something specific he said?
2. Ok. He HAS picked up his play IMO though. And other players also fall in this category (Cheery slot, Peregrine, Pidgey, jason)
3. Elaborate? I need to look that up. IIRC it was a policy statement since you were going to ignore MoI.
4. Mmmm. He said after "MoI mislynches" which I guess counts. Ok, so you think Acosmist is more likely than MoI. Read on Yates?

Ok Mykonian. Why did you decide Tammy wasn't a good lynch then when you did? Because it clearly wasn't to put as at odds. (And even if it were, that is a terrible reason to change your mind considering the context of the game)

And your vote on me is the definition of reaching. Discuss? ....Are you trying to stop the Acosmist wagon?

@Nero: What changed your mind about Kise? Also Cheery/Snifit?

[AngryPidgeon]

Why wouldn't I care about your Mykonian read? I always ask my scumreads about each other.

what makes this game special then?

vote pidgeon

What?

"I do it every game.". The only reason would tell us is because you are purposefully sticking to your meta. Guess who like to do that.

LOL. The tell you are referring to is scum players leaving people to fill in the blanks that they are town. But, Im town and I didn't say "I always ask my scumreads about each other; just check my townmeta!" or "I always ask my scumreads about each other; even as scum!" which would have been scummy as shit. I implied its a null-tell (and why wouldn't it be for anyone).

Nice construe though.

I _guess_ you could argue that I am implying Im town by saying I have scumreads. But that would be hilarious.

[AngryPidgeon]

You cut off my other 2.

Also hes trying to pull a semantics argument on me that is construing what I said and its fucking obvious.

And his posting style. Like every single one of his posts is discrediting people and acting like a beacon of mafia wisdom. Look at his entire pidgey campaign. Pidgey is obviously town and Mykonian kept highlighting the derp in his posts and smearing the shit out of him.

"OH YOU TOOK 6 MINUTES? SCUM!!!"

Anyway this is a better vote for now

vote: Benmage

For the record. Throwaway vote on a protown dude. No reasoning, no nothing, just a place for your vote.

Such a solid piece of evidence, the Amrun thing! The rest of your case is....

he rages lately

, voted Benmage, and he made "a mess".

Damn if only making my homework was this easy.

no, that KK.

and your benmage vote sucked. Homework was that easy.

Pidgey, I'm going to give you the benefit of doubt, but that's about it. I really don't like that amrun flaked, it's a bad sign.

thanks pidgey, first post after you had replaced in.

Any more strawmans you want to set up now?

[AngryPidgeon]

Ok Elscouta. Go ISO me. I gave you my bullet points.

And look at that bullshit ^.

"Im so good at mafia. Im better than you". -Scummykonian.

Pedit: Cheery is town.

[AngryPidgeon]

VOTE: Mykonian

Soft defending Elscouta Tomorrow.

[AngryPidgeon]

I was ignoring Mykonian around the time he was making some of these scum-posts; Tammy/KK/Ben/Mastin were sponging all my attention and Mykonian v Pidgey was just a derp sideshow at the time. Plus he agreed with me at various points and that made me a little soft.

This post. Is awful.
Lack of content does not make someone scum. Mykonian, in his timeless wisdom, knows that.

More smearing

Ignoring MoI's actual reason for _lightly doubting_ Benmage's claim and calling him scummy for having a history with Benmage?
Mykonian, do you still think that was a scummy opinion for MoI to hold?

This is around where I started looking at Mykonian
It was kind of a gut read at first that stemmed from Pidgey being obvtown and his wagon be really dumb. Mykonian also had some scattered statements that I didn't think town would say "Im ok with the fact that the day is still going". It just felt like an opinion for the sake of having an opinion.

There is so much wrong with this post.
1. Saying 'Im not scum' instead of 'No, Im town'. Its minor but it still more likely comes from scum.
2. His pidgey case is awful. Being 'ragey' is not a tell and CERTAINLY not for pidgey. And the 'I like him early on' is a subtle way of saying 'Im town and Im not just spewing BS. There are actual reasons for my pidgey read!'
3. Cannot keep his story straight about his Tammy opinion. Look at his posting and see the myriad of

reasons

BULLSHIT wrt to lynching or not lynching Tammy. First its evens/odds (which alone is shit and he should feel bad), then its "Tammy is a free shot"?? Then why only keep her alive for one day? Is it pro-town or not

I don't know why he did it, but the "Tammy is anti-town", "Ok maybe lets leave her alive for evens/odds", "Oh its a free shot" is inconsistent. Inconsistency itself isn't a tell, but if you look at the timeline of it all (MoI calling BS on the even/odds spec) and everything its shady as hell. The scum motivation there is lacking, but the town motivation is even more lacking. Its derp in a "Oh shit, my story is obviously fiction, better start throwing opinions out there and see what sticks.

Tl;Dr:
Mykonian's pidgey push was scummy.
Mykonian's everchanging opinions on the Tammy lynch are questionable and

most likely scum motivated.

not even remotely town motivated.
Mykonian is construing attacker's words and trying to discredit them. /Mastin
Lynch this joker. Or Elscouta. Hes soft defending Mykonian with all sorts of "Well, you can't PROVE that Mykonian is scum." "Well, what did he do that is scummy exactlys (so I can avoid doing it after he flips scum)" and "I dunno AP, Im not going to say it outright but

your Mykonian push looks opportunistic and I think you are scum MLing him.

.

Counter question: Why is Mykonian town?

[AngryPidgeon]

And yes, I'm saying MoI is scummy for that statement about benmage. It literally makes no sense to say that if you are town.

In order –

1. The fake-claims I am referring to are such

A. You fake-claimed (completely, you were not even a Cop) in some Candy / Dessert themed game (I was not in it, just remember seeing the play) and got the Mafia Godfather lynched. This is the one I would qualify as successful.
B. You fake-claimed a result (you were half Cop IIRC) on Nero (again IIRC, did not look it up) in Gorrad’s Favorite’s and got Town Nero lynched. Luckily Town was able to pull it out given your gambit was later game (Day 4 or 5, again IIRC). This is the one I would qualify as a failure.

Does this not make sense? Why is doubting a claim scummy? (Its the opposite actually).

Who said you have a townread on pidgey? My point is that you are scum. You backpedaled like mad once MoI called you out on it.

Have you played with pidgey before?

[AngryPidgeon]

Look at #2623. AngryPidgeon answers there at the question "why do you think mykonian is scum". Immediately, I call him on that, because none of the points there show any scumminess.

All of those are scummy things. ESPECIALLY his change in Tammy stance. Read my post to Mykonian. Read the linked posts. ISO him and MoI around that time frame. His backpedal and everchanging reasons for wanting to lynch/not-lynch Tammy were hocus pocus. Hes not town. Kill it with fire. If you are town, stop defending him.

Ok, so I didn't document my thought process as well as I could at the time this was happening yesterday. The herpaderp surrounding Tammy was getting most of my attention (and I was locked in like 3 arguments). MoI's points about him are all spot-on and like I said:
1. His pidgey push
2. Unable to keep opinions straight about Tammy
3. Gut

- Finally he posts #2658. Check his reasons for voting mykonian and compare with #2623. There is no overlap. Angry Pidgeon made up the case on mykonian after being asked to

explain why he was pushing mykonian.

So let me ask you the question one more time:
- At the time of #2224, what made mykonian so scummy?

And i'll add a followup:
- What changed in his style between #1162 and #2056.

You asked specifically about Yesterday so I talked about Yesterday. And Im trying to get people to sheep me which is why that post kind of evolved into a case.
Nero asked for points about why Mykonian was scummy so I said the first things to come to my head. Then you ask for points about why Mykonian was scummy YESTERDAY. And are now trying to say that since I have different reasons for both that I'm scummy? And there WAS overlap. My main grievance with Mykonian is his changing Tammy stance which I mentioned in both (in fact it was most of what I talked about in both)

Mykonian is scum and you should stop defending him and CWing a retarded PL.

[AngryPidgeon]

Lynching Mykonian/Elscouta is worth like 2k exp points each.

[AngryPidgeon]

The

bulletpoints were all about things that mykonian said yesterday

. Hence, my question about yesterday was fully relevant.

Also now turning away Acosmist's theoretical support for an MoI lynch (despite him being Myk's top scumspect?)

No they weren't. And they were off the top of my head >.>.

Treating me as town.

Calling me scum.

-Mykonian is scum and you should stop defending him and CWing a retarded PL.-

What about that statement implies you are town? If its because its written in the imperative form, then guess again.

[AngryPidgeon]

Counter question: Why is Mykonian town?

[AngryPidgeon]

I think you are scum.

[AngryPidgeon]

MoI is town because he has all the same scumreads that I do. It probably comes from a town mindset. We need to consolidate votes. Im going back to the wagon with more support.

UNVOTE: , VOTE: Elscouta

Baaaa

@MoI: Im not seeing how Mykonian admits you are town in the re-Acosmist post. But he is still scum for turning down help from someone (Acosmist) interested in lynching one of his top scumreads (you) and instead chastises him. Either Mykonian is really fail at town play or is just leaking obvscum everywhere. And he isn't town this game, which of course makes it the latter.

Elscouta listing him as null, avoiding talking about/to him, and casting him off as a 'distraction' is scummy as hell. ESPECIALLY since it isn't just MoI interested in lynching Mykonian.

[AngryPidgeon]

It really feels like Mykonian is saying it just for the "Would I really say this as scum?" appeal. Rejecting help from someone interested in lynching his (top at the time?) scumread. ESPECIALLY from someone he apparently still has a town read on.

But there is absolutely no way town does what he did there so it has to come from scum. I would absolutely have tried to bargain with Acosmist or sell him on my case. Calling him on bad posting is totally going to make him sheep your case. (On opposite day). So like I said, Mykonian would have to be REALLY fail at town play for that to come from town-Mykonian.

P-edit: Jason could be scum. The lurker pool almost definitely has one. {Jason/PV/KK/Zabriel/..}. And that last post is awfully BS. Stating the obvious then leaping to a peripherally related conclusion. You scum Jason?

[AngryPidgeon]

True. Anyone voting for pidgey seriously (or calling Amrun scum) is prob-scum or Mastin.

Elscouta is scum too. Look at the soft-defending. And his entire case on me is ironic:

I realize some people might not have seen clearly what i found super-scummy in AP.

It's one main point, followed by a side remarks:

Main Point: AP doesn't know why he wanted to lynch mykonian

He doesn't know why he wants to lynch me. I gave several good reasons for a Mykonian lynch (as did MoI and I admit to riding those coattails a little)
And his other point is that I called a lot of people scum, but he doesnt make any case or analysis of that. He just lists occasions of me calling people scum w/o explaining why he thinks that is scummy. (Im town; its not)

Side point: AngryPidgeon ISO - Calling everyone scummy

He implies that I am throwing accusations around to see what sticks (and maybe outright said it at another point). Look at his posts on me. He dips his foot in the water around me for pages and keeps looking around to see how much backfire he will get for voting me. His suspicions are roundabout and incredibly scummy. (And ironic).

Elscouta, do you still think MoI is scum? More/less likely to flip scum than me?

[AngryPidgeon]

I have to skip the random nonsense stage of my posting (inb4 Yates says "The entire game?") in order to claim:

I am Solid Snake. If you target me, you will die. This is seriously a claim of my actual role. I am a paranoid gun owner. However, my role does not make it clear whether you will die immediately. It

is

clear that

you will die if you target me

.

VOTE: Benmage because :mumblemumble no good reason hurr:

Solid Snake... in a Harry Potter game..

Yea, no.

unvote
vote: Acosmist

There is no way Jason was being honest here. No way. How do you sign up for a game and not know the flavor? And he isn't even REMOTELY CONCERNED that someone would claim Solid Snake in a Harry Potter game (on the off chance that he really didn't know the flavor?). Instead, he is so confident that he places a serious vote on Acosmist?

This could just be derp, but really?

If I were in AV's spot and scum-Jason just did that, I wouldn't hesitate to call him on it. Its townpoints when Jason flips and its not such a solid vote that it is going to result in a Jason lynch so immediately by itself.

[AngryPidgeon]

Oh dont give me that crap. Your entire stance on Mastin v MoI was the definition of testing the waters:

"Well I really want to see where this goes. I think there could be a scum there"

...

"Oops the winds are blowing south. Guess, I don't actually want them to fight at all, just kidding (but MoI might still be scum)"

And then you kind of work your way around to me and start pinging me with questions (whilst voting elsewhere and not actually caring about that wagon at all). Seriously, you spent time voting Acosmist and not actually caring about making a significant case for that wagon. And now you are hopping back on me for incredibly forced reasoning (AP doesn't know why hes voting Mykonian and has accused a lot of people) which is hypocritical AND scummy when looking at your overall play. And like I said, there is no way you just avoided saying ANYTHING about Mykonian at all as town. You are keeping your options over and essentially are guilty of what oyu are saying I am doing, except you ARE actively keeping as many options open as possible and voting opportunistically.

And you have ZERO stance on Mykonian? At all? I just dont see how thats possible. At the VERY LEAST you say he leaning-town because you think the people pushing him are scum. Im guessing your plan is to be all "oh, maybe Mykonian IS scum" when I and/or MoI flip town so you don't get shafted for blowing all your cred soft-defending him. But you are even keeping that option open.

Is there anyone you actually think is town?

[AngryPidgeon]

Anyway, I think we can agree that each of us is considering the other scum, so let's just let other people weight in and vote.

Scum claim. "I don't actually care too much about the fact that I'm X-voting the other leading wagon. Im not interested in survival at all, lets just let people weigh in"

Wow, 1 strong town read and 2 weak ones. You couldn't come up with anymore? You are keeping your options open and its coming back to bite you.

And you really think that MoI and I can both be scum together?

Town does not consider giving out fake-reads. Ever. And you could have said "I think Mykonian is likely town because my scumreads are pushing him" but you don't actually have scumreads because you are scum so of course that didn't occur to you. So nice try going for the "Would I make such a scummy statement as scum?" technique, but there is no way town Elscouta considered faking a read for no good reason.

P-edit: Why did you think Pidgey was scum? And if for "being useless" then why werent you voting Acosmist/Jason/Zabriel at some point?

[AngryPidgeon]

Either way you are simultaneously accusing MoI of being scum for buddying pidgey and calling pidgey scum for ???

Having cake and eating it too.

[AngryPidgeon]

Yes.

Scum had everything to gain by pushing so hard for Tammy to be lynched

. The "she's in a scum-group" theory reeks of desperate justification to avoid jumping off the lynch. The fact that you continued to argue that it was a viable theory as you were shopping for someone non-Acosmist to lynch means that not even you believed it. You and Acosmist are clearly scum together.

This is bollocks. You are still arguing that all scum were on the Tammy wagon because it was the correct play for scum. People tend to just stick with whatever opinions they would have naturally since its easier to argue something you actually believe. Note that Mykonian failed in this department. Would you be willing to compromise there today? I'd bet that scum were both on and off the Tammy wagon; I strongly doubt there is any notable pattern that can be divined here. your premise that the wagon is super-scum-driven is ridiculous.

And what happened to your opinion that a lot of the lurkers voting Tammy were likely scum who 'gave up'? Oh, that opinion is not convenient right now (but it will be down the road Im sure).

I'm town. And your entire push on me is that I was on the other side of the fence regarding Tammy. Why are Pidgey/MoI/Cheery(snifit)/etc not scumreads then? You are selectively applying this to me and its scummy as hell. And I wasn't the only/first person to suggest her being in a faction. And the justification that Team-Tammy shoots Benmage w/o a 2nd glance is completely WIFOM.

I agree with your Mykonian read. Would you be willing to compromise there today? Not to jump between them yet again, but Elscouta/Mykonian are the best lynches today. Zabriel is ok too actually and it seems a lot of people support that one but it never goes anywhere. And the amount of lurking going on this game is getting ridiculous.

Re Acosmist: I skimmed him. What is scummy about his ISO? I'm not seeing it at all. (Oh he was on Tammy, right)

[AngryPidgeon]

Tammy - 10 (snifit, Kise, Benmage, pidgey, WrathChild, MagnaofIllusion, Acosmist, AngryPidgeon,

mykonian,

Elscouta

)

Help us narrow down the Tammy wagon then. I know you want to. And if you are going to subscribe to the philosophy that Tammy wagon was antitown/scummy, then Elscouta is scummy for starting a counterwagon (pidgey) to the counterwagon (Acosmist) and spliting the votes and hammering Tammy. You should vote him.

And why do you think Mykonian is town? Does that have to do with MoI pushing him?

[AngryPidgeon]

Such as: Why wouldn't scum-Elcousta just vote for SK-Tammy? Why prolong the day and risk self/scummates saying something stupid and drawing attention?

Maybe because there was a lot of derp going around about people being scummy for being on it?

And prolonging the day is not pro-town. And that last bit has no base.

[AngryPidgeon]

Nero should name claim.

[AngryPidgeon]

dangerously close to being on the wrong side.

Appeal to fear. Nice try to get me to sheep you though.

@Nero: It took Tammy ages to name claim. Does your fakeclaim not match your role?

MoI/Kise aren't arguing that you arent a neighborizer. I think they are arguing that you are a scum neighborizer due to setup spec. I dont necessarily buy that as I think that would involve sloppy modding.

When did Cheery claim that? I dont remember him talking about you, need to check.

[AngryPidgeon]

Im starting to wonder if Mastin is just saying bullshit intentionally because he knows its expected of him.

I don't know MGS flavor too well. I skimmed Hal Emmrich online and don't see anything that makes him more/less likely to be a neighborizer. Either way, Nero is considerably less likely to be scum than other people.

@Thor: D2 can be summed up for you.

Mastin: Hey Nero lets be super best friends! Lets wagon Snifit
Nero: Snifit is fucking evil! Dieeee
Mastin: Oops ok maybe not Snifit. But I have pegged the entire scumteam ala wagon analysis
Nero: Ok going V/LA for eva
Benmage: Tammy is scummy
Tammy: Oh Benny, you are so cute and wrong
Benmage: Im a cop you idiot.
Tammy: Oh, well Im the Dayvig,

Shoot: Admiral

Admiral: I am le dead
Everyone:

Vote: Tammy

Acosmist: LYNCH ME YOU CUNTS
KK/Mastin: Lets not lynch Tammy! Anyone who disagrees is obviously scum.
Acosmist: VOTE ME YOU CUNTS
Mykonian: Guys Im fucking obviously scum. Also lets kill pidgey.
Kublai Khan: Anyone voting Tammy is still scum
Kise/Snifit/WrathChild/Pidgey: ... Tammy isn't dead yet?
Tammy: Guys Im

town!

Yates: *A whole lot of bullshit about Tammy being innocent*
Acosmist: YAAAAAAATEEEEEESSSSSSSSS
Zabriel: I dont wanna lynch Tammy because big-brother KK will think Im scummy. Acosmist is scum.
*Acosmist wagon grows. elscouta votes pidgey*
Zabriel: Hmmm, I dont like the Acosmist wagon, lets wagon pidgey instead. (Im probably Mykonians buddy)
MoI: Hi guys, Im replacing someone
Mastin: MOI IS SCUM. HE Is

NOT

playing to his town meta!!!
MoI: Intent to vote Tammy.
Mastin: MORE PROOF THAT MOI IS SCUM
MoI: *Good posting*
Mastin: MOI IS MISREPPING. 1v1 ME. IM A VT. I WILL SELF-VOTE.
MoI:
Mykonian: I forget whether or not I want Tammy lynched. What should I do?
Elscouta: I am le hammer.
Mastin: Faith in humanity: le LOST.

p-edit: Ok Thor is town. And Kise never backrtracked. The argument is about the timing of your role being processed.

The argument against Nero is that he is scum because his power is activating before the night phase ends. Which sounds like a mod error if he really is scum. I think Kise?/MoI? acknowledged that. Either way I don't care enough about that role spec for it to affect my Nero opinion.

PPedit: IP v4 or IP v6?

[AngryPidgeon]

We have just over 2 days. If people are going soft on Elscouta I'm still down for a flash Mykonian/Zabriel wagon.

Spoiler: Why people should want to vote Zab

(Also, we couldn't get a consistent counterwagon

Gee, I wonder who is responsible for that?
Zabriel expressed interest in Acosmist but then said he didn't like his wagon once it got to 4 votes. He was also parroting KK/Mastin that the Tammy lynch was bad and implied that another one would be better. Why did he sit on the fence about Acosmist then and only wagon pidgey once Elscouta hopped over? I'm not saying he/Acosmist are a team as that would be a super awkward scum/scum interaction, but he can't keep his opinions straight. He called Acosmist scummy (and provided reasoning wherefore) but decided to ignore the Acosmist wagon and CW someone that he never mentioned before? Right. Thats a town mindset right there.

Also today I asked him about Acosmist and he replied:

I don't know about Aco. That claim is making things really awkward and clouding my thoughts. It might be worth it to remove the doubt and hope we hit scum, but I think that

any lynch on Aco with the information we have right now is a solid policy lynch

.

He is waffling because he knows where Im going with my question. Why not vote Acosmist yesterday if he is a solid PL and he wanted someone other than Tammy to be lynched? Nothing changed between know and then.

Mykonian wall to come again, but I have to run right now.
P-edit: Yates unvoted him. But this is the best post youve made all game.

[AngryPidgeon]

By the way, both AP and MoI have said my post where I say I haven't forgotten about the Melmond mislynch is an appeal to fear.
I was not aware that giving reads was an appeal to fear.

No, its the way you phrased it and you know it.

AP's currently on the town side of null, but he's

dangerously close

to being on the wrong side.

This is an AtF. Its a thinly veiled way of saying "AP, you are in my good graces right now, but that Might not last too long if you don't sheep me." Especially since I know you drop comments like (Im going to paraphrase it because I dont want to dig it up, but you said this after I voted WC near end of D2) "AP is town. I'm sure. He came to his senses about the Tammy lynch."

You ABSOLUTELY have been blatantly offering towncred to people that sheep you. And that latest post was a blatant AtF: "AP, you might make my scum list unless you start voting the way I want."

Reading...Elscouta needs to die. Claim time is over. Its too late to wagon someone else.

[AngryPidgeon]

Spoiler: pidgey post

People: MYK HAS FKN SKATED THE WHOLE DAY

Remember how cocky he was D2, calling everyone ignorant or scummy around? Sitting smirkly on the sidelines waiting for tammy to shoot the cop (notice he never gave a target of choice himself, he was just there "Im waiting for you to shoot")

And today since cases and opinions have began piling up on him, he has gone to the shadows, only appearing here and there to throw a jab around.

Is no one baffled by how his votes suddenly stopped and changed? After he did.... what? What was his defense?

Yeez

Although I dont find elscouta to be super TOWN, lately I don't really feel him to be scum either, dont like this elscouta lynch, would prefer even zabriel over this.

Pidgey, Elscouta is scum. His last minute refusal to claim is just a dumb gambit. Town has every reason to claim.

Mykonian is too and can go Tomorrow.

@Thor:
lol @ post 1315. Anyone who still believes Mykonian wasn't telling Tammy to shoot Cop-Ben is not reading the thread. Thoughts, Thor?

What do you agree about in 2855?

Who else would YOU be willing to vote today. Most people in the game are lurking like mad. Elscouta is scum and I don't see why I should risk a NL for a maybe _slightly_ better target. Mykonian probably doesn't have the support for a flash lynch. Zabriel might, but he and Elscouta are both probscum.

[AngryPidgeon]

Ya, someone was. Can't remember who. Maybe it was just Mykonian.

No particular reason, just trying to figure out what you think about him.

Read on MoI?

[AngryPidgeon]

Oh wait lol. That was you saying it was too obvious to be from scum. Do you not still think that?

[AngryPidgeon]

Nominating PV for most lurkiest lurker award. (The PMysterious award)

[AngryPidgeon]

Yates, what about Elscoutas reply made you unvote him?

Isnt he l-2?..checking

[AngryPidgeon]

Ya hes at 7/9 I think.

[AngryPidgeon]

>.>

Finally. Elscouta, you scum?

Inb4 locked.

Mykonian/Zab tomorrow.

Respond to pidgeys point about Myk saying he suggested Vig targets but didn't?

Im still not seeing MoI scum. I haven't actually played with him as such (read words w/ scum a little) but just seems genuine this game.

[AngryPidgeon]

Jason needs rope later. After myk.

[AngryPidgeon]

And not pidgey?

And your derphammer is just as fake as you believing Acosmist was fakeclaiming with flavor not in the game.

[AngryPidgeon]

[AngryPidgeon]

The mindset of post 2881 is scummy. Its like "Well what I did was justifiable because it was going to happen" instead of admitting you fucked up. I think the correct buzzword is 'damage control'.

What is it with my games and townies refusing to claim when they are getting lynched?

I skimmed BC/WC/Thor for signs of who they may have protected N1, all I got is this.

Town
Ben

Tammy

Jason
Kise

This was BC's townreads like part way through the day. He never listed any townreads after this.

Is Tammy Town?

This was WC's opening post. Kind of weak, but could be a crumb that Tammy was doc'd. Which could have made the scumteam think she was BP which would be lolz and actually support Mastin's theory.

Thor's only real scumreads were MoI/Jason but they were kind of weak.

MoI, read on Mykonian? Read on Jason?
Jason, why do you think Thor was NK'd?

[AngryPidgeon]

vote:acomist

WHAT IS YOUR KILL FLAVOR?

Did you target Acosmist?

[AngryPidgeon]

So you do this all the time and its ok but when I do it its scummy? Way to slip.

When did MoI do this?

Zab isn't a bad vote. And I could almost see him/ MoI from:

The absolute only way to test Aco is to lynch him

, and if there's going to be growing suspicion, I'd just as soon get it out of the way and not risk getting caught in an awkward situation later in the game.

So Zab - I need to know what your thinking in regards to the bolded is ....

...

So - are you stupid Town or stupid Scum who are not thinking things through?

Being wishy-washy on Zab, kind of setting up to attribute his scumminess to just being a noob whilst leaving open the opportunity to go for cred.

My question I guess morphs into the following – if Zab is a slam-dunk scum lynch why aren’t you voting him?

This rubbed me wrong when MoI posted it, but I never really revisited it. He could very well be trying to link me to a buddy.

Nero, opinion on the Thor kill?

[AngryPidgeon]

VOTE: Zabriel

Also Fos: Peregrine 5

[AngryPidgeon]

Why do you think scum killed him, AP?

Could be a few different things.

1. He suspected MoI/you so you/MoI killed him
2. PR guess (or maf rolecop found him)
3. He was fairly obvtown and a good replacement tends to find scum more often than someone entrenched in the game.

Im afraid to jump to conclusion 1 because the other 2 are also viable.

[AngryPidgeon]

Cheery, you town? You aren't posting like it.

@KK: That should be obvious. If Acosmist IS telling the truth and his power happens to not work on HP characters, scum could send an HP character to kill him if they want. Whats the benefit of asking the question in the first place? And if he is scum, then who cares. He can say w/e the fuck he wants in response.

Mastin, can you explain why you think Mykonian is town for me (#BeConcise)?

I think we should have Nero test Acosmist's claim. If Nero is town then I don't see why not do it. He is under a moderate amount of suspicion and is fairly likely to be lynched sooner or later. Also, we are at even numbers and the doctor just died. Nero testing Acosmist's claim puts us back at odds if Acosmist is town and conf-towns someone that can't be NK'd. So there isn't too much disadvantage to it if nero/Acosmist are town/town and a reasonable advantage to be had (possibly preventing ML's on both players, conftowning someone that can't be NK'd)

If Acosmist is scum, then Nero survives and we lynch Acosmist immediately next Day. If Nero is scum, then IDK. He could lie about having targeted Acosmist but if Acosmist flips town then that dooms Nero.

Thoughts?

[AngryPidgeon]

I'm the new Tammy.

Huh?

Elscouta - 9 (Cheery Dog, Acosmist, AngryPidgeon, MagnaofIllusion, Kise, Thor665, Kublai Khan, Yates, jasonT1981)

I'm willing to be everyone after Thor was town.

So everyone after Thor is town because scum wouldn't NK Thor after being on a wagon after him? Mmmmm.

I wouldn't even say that the people after Thor sheeped Thor. The wagon was looking inevitable around that time. KK hopped on because Elscouta wouldn't claim. Yates/Jason were just there for the inevitability of it IIRC. Why is Thor such a distinctive point of the wagon (and "because he was NK'd" is a terrible answer). And saying that scum would leave Thor alive because they were on the wagon after him (even if they were blatantly sheeping him) is ridiculous. Why? Its not like sheeping one player all game is a viable scum-strat.

Re Mykonian: Ok. I'll admit Mykonian v Pidgey looks a little genuine. And I was scrounging for D2 quotes and I thought I remembered Mykonian saying that lynching Tammy was strictly anti-town but I can't find that anywhere now. But the even/odd argument was still shallow and reeks of someone just trying to say something relevant.

Worth noting, Thor pushed on MoI and Kise quite a bit. Thor doesn't strike me as the kind of guy who likes to be subtle, so I'm pretty sure that aside from El, those two were his main suspects.

Thor also said he would be willing to 'wagon most of us' when I asked him something about his suspects. He also suspected Jason's hammer. Why are those not relevant?

And the fact he flipped Doc makes it at least plausible that the scumteam has a rolecop and found him (making NK spec pointless)

So, you think MoI is town, despite
-Throwing away a gamebreakingly powerful role and instead choosing to mislynch it d2, and
-Pushing a mislynch on El, who we now know to be town, and
-Pushing a mislynch on myk, who I now know to be town, and
-Pushing a mislynch on me, when I am town?
Wouldn't surprise me if MoI came in and began attacking Zab, either.

But I'm a good 90% sure Zab's playing inside his town meta right now, so that's not a lynch I'll support any time soon.

'Specially not when Aco--MoI's scumbuddy--is distancing MoI by putting him in the scumlist but refusing to actually lynch him.

1. Irrelevant. Town benmage also did the same. As did Town WrathChild. And town me. I refuse to believe this has anything to do with alignment.
2. Pushing ML's isn't a scumtell. Also, I wanted Els. He was scummy as hell.
3. Myk is not conf-town at all.
4.
5. Zab is also scummy as hell. Read my old case on him. Zab is probably not town and this point is a self-fulfilling prophecy because MoI already expressed interest there.

Except, MoI's meta as town suggests he'd have taken the gamebreakingly powerful strategy.

Except it wasn't a clearcut good strategy. Tammy was a wildcard. And MoI reasonably has other opinions about good gameplay. I 100% disagreed with his plan in Switchboard and thought he was scummy for it. We were both town. Opinions on strategy are just that - opinions.

UNVOTE: Zab
VOTE: Mastin2

Mastin, what do you think of Nero testing Acosmist's claim? It is essentially a hide on Acosmist. We can clear someone who is unkillable or get a guilty on scum.

[AngryPidgeon]

MoI, how willing would you be to vote Mastin?

I think I've been giving him a blind eye for living up to his town-self this game.

[AngryPidgeon]

Angry - why exactly are you asking me this given you just were calling me scum with Zabriel?

I'm not sold on that idea. Hence why I was voting Zab and not you.

Ya, you're probably town though. Why did you ask me about not voting Zab though?

He IS providing justification though. His last post mentions you trying to ML Elscouta, Mykonian, and him as reasons for suspecting you. Its bad reasoning, but he IS providing fall back reasoning. If you flip town he can say "well his push on me was scummy and opportunistic and backing down from the 1v1 gave me bad vibes". And he can still say that your Mykonian push was really bad (since in this hypothetical situation he/Mykonian would still be alive) and that you were scummy for suspecting obvtown players.

And his Elscouta wagon analysis reeks of selective scumhunting and trying to read into something for the sake of having opinions.

[AngryPidgeon]

But there's more to it than that. The end of the El wagon is exactly like the end of the Tammy wagon--a deadline lynch, made because we literally had no other option and El wasn't being cooperative.
Those are circumstances which breed town players jumping on.

And not scum players as well?

If the messenger targets Aco tonight guaranteed, we put aside the messenger's alignment until tomorrow, since some of you think the messenger role comes from scum. If we can get a majority to follow this pledge, then the messenger should claim and agree to this plan. (Honestly, if they're just sending reads every night, there isn't much more they can do that they haven't already done. )

Why not have Nero do it?

The pro-town results of a double-day are self-evident. Two town-controlled kills rather than one.
MoI passed on that, in favor of lynching her.

Yes, but you can't argue that town players (you admit to Ben doing it) ALSO did that. So how is it a scumtell as opposed to opinion or just derp? It doesn't matter how right you are or think you are. Someone disagreeing with you is not a scumtell.

Beyond that, you're also ignoring that I'm not just pushing MoI for pushing the mislynches.

Yes, but its hard to fall back on "MoI was misrepping" and "Everyone pushing the Tammy lynch was scum" if MoI flips town. Your recent points ARE things that can be fallen back on and MoI specifically brought fall-back points up so I was mentioning yours.

[AngryPidgeon]

ALSO did

N'T

that

[AngryPidgeon]

Wait. Didn't you just make an even/odd argument in your Nero tests Acosmist post?

Not really.

Mykonian was arguing that Tammy should be kept alive purely to put as at odds.

I'm arguing that Nero Cain testing Acosmist's claim gives us a benefit (conf-towning someone that can't be NK'd or proving that he is scum) and doesn't provide much drawback (losing someone that is probably getting ML'd if town and bringing us to odds which doesn't lose us a lynch).

Basically Mykonian argued that being at evens is a compelling reason to leave Tammy alive. Im arguing that being at evens makes having Nero do this have little drawback.

And mykonian flat out flip-flopped on his Tammy opinion for unknown reasons. Thats what was scummy about it. Not that he supports being at odds in itself.

[AngryPidgeon]

So you are on board with Nero testing your claim?

[AngryPidgeon]

-Nero is limited-shot.

Ok, so he is probably almost out of shots. So your next point is kind of moot.

-Nero's ability is more useful to the town.

Nero is X-shot. And not really. A neighborizer isn't really a strong PR.

-Nero recruiting Thor the same night the scum killed him--contrary to what anyone else may claim--DOES make Nero town.

This is like the definition of WIFOM.

And I'd rather keep the messenger private for now. Nero is known and if he DOES flip scum then messenger is prob-town for the claim alone and can claim that when need be. Contrarily, if the messenger flips scum then Nero is prob-town for the claim and can just be NK'd immediately.

@Jason: What? In the context of D2, Acosmist's post makes perfect sense especially considering what mastin had been saying around then.

[AngryPidgeon]

@MoI: fair enough. I just didn't like your post Yesterday where you asked me why I wasn't voting Zab if my case was a 'slam-dunk'. I never called it such and Zabriel not being around to respond to pressure is making it fucking impossible to get anything from him.

[AngryPidgeon]

Im only operating under the assumption that you/MEssenger aren't scum/scum. I think thats a fairly reasonable assumption.

The argument for having YOU do it was stated previously in a response to Mastin. If you flip scum, then the messenger is probtown and also hidden. Its like having an unclaimed mason out there that we know exists.

If the messenger flips scum then you are prob-town. Its like having a mason that the scum can NK whenever they want.

Friendly Neighbor and Neighborizer are not the same role at all.

My 3007 makes plenty of sense. IIRC Mastin was talking about VOTING HIMSELF if it meant not lynching Tammy. He definitely flat-out admitted to voting people he thought were town just because they were better lynches than Tammy (his opinion). And Jason just went back in time and fishes up this bullshit of yours and posts it out of context? I need to go back and read like 3 pages if I want to see the whole story about why acosmist said that, but I don't care to because the semantics case you/Jason are making of it is terrible anyways.

And your recent take on Acosmist is scummy as hell. "I don't like Acosmist" "AP's criticism of my/Jason's point about Acosmist is bad"

Is he scummy or not?

[AngryPidgeon]

If you

think we’re different alignments

then you’d WANT the messenger to claim so that way when I flip town you can lynch the messenger.

No, I think its possible you are both town or town/scum. I just don't think its likely at all that you are both scum. I thought I was clear about that?

"What semantics case?"
Ok, slip case. Would scum-Acosmist really just roll into the thread and see Town-Snifit getting wagoned and say "Hey guise! Lets stop randomly wagoning town Snifit! Because I am scum and I KNOW he is town!"

Thats a shit reason to suspect Acosmist. That post is not a slip. Hence why I dont care about the context ultimately anyways.

[AngryPidgeon]

Well if he's scum he's not going to claim. This looks like a ball of fence sitting.

What am I sitting on the fence about? I proposed a plan and laid out the pros/cons of it and pushing for it.

Re Aco post: He could be scum. He could be town. (I think hes town) He could be the flying pumpkin that shoots laser beams out of its ass. Im saying THAT POST doesn't mean anything. Its null. And calling it a slip is bullshit.

[AngryPidgeon]

So your plan is: have Nero target Aco. If Nero dies and flips town then???

Then acosmist is confirmed town and unable to be NK'd. That was kind of the point.

[AngryPidgeon]

Nero your point is circular logic.

"If Acosmist is scum, then that post is him acknowledging that he knows Cheery is town!..Unless Cheery is scum too"

P-edit: nothing. slightly more likely to be scum in that event.

VOTE: Zabriel

[AngryPidgeon]

: /

How could MoI know you were out of shots.

P-edit: lol. oops looks like I blew all my shots last night. Weee. : /

Fine, have the messenger do it. But Nero needs so much death if messenger flips town.

[AngryPidgeon]

If I do, Im not claiming it.

dealwithit.jpeg.

[AngryPidgeon]

but at the same time if the messanger is scum he's just gonna lie about targeting Aco.

Lol? Why are you backpedaling away from your counter-plan?

[AngryPidgeon]

Your whole take on the situation is shady-as-fuck. You keep arguing that its a shit idea. Then you argue that you are out of shots (unprovable) and that the messenger should go. And you act like this counterplan is the best thing ever. Then you backpedal away and call it all pointless again. So yes Im confused as fuck about your end-game here.

[AngryPidgeon]

He'd lie about it and get an Aco lynch the next day. Simple logic.

Fine. In that case its a 1 for 1 since the person is confirmed to have lied after Acosmist flips.

The only confusing part is when the person targeting him is expected to die. He doesn't seem to know.

[AngryPidgeon]

@Aco: Confirm/Deny the above?

[AngryPidgeon]

Ugh, had a response typed out and had to leave for work. So quick notes.

Jason's opinion on Acosmist is derp. Why would you rather have a town neighborizer alive than a town pgo? And if we lynch Acosmist and he flips town, that still doesnt confirm nero's alignment. But IDK how reliably we can test Acosmist's claim since he doesn't know how long it takes for his target to die evidently. If the messenger wants to do it I guess leave that up to them. Nero is claiming to be out of shots anyhow so w/e.

@Mastin: There is no difference between an SK and a Day SK in this scenario. (At least to me). So I dont understand why that matters. Why is Nero town? Using a shot on Thor IS WIFOM and a neighbotizing power is not that powerful anyways. If I were scum-Nero I would not at all mind wasting a shot to look more town.

Also your MoI case is that he pushed town Elscouta. Not a scumtell. And that he is pushing Zab. Why is zab town? Hes scummy and I dont see how anyone could have a townread on him simply given the lack of content from him. And, no, voting MoI is not a towntell. Im leaning a little less towards Mykonian after failing to find that quote of his I thought I remembered, but hes still not even remotely prob-town. MoI's push on him makes total sense.

And honestly I fall into each and every point you bring up against MoI. I pushed Elscouta. I am pushing Zab. I suspect you and Mykonian. And I also didn't want to bother leashing Tammy. So why is MoI conf-scum for those points and me not so much?

Who was it that you said AV's post tied MoI's alignment too? I cant look through your ISO for that, but I remember you being adamant about AV's post 47.

lol @ foxdie carried.

[AngryPidgeon]

If anything, the Thor NK spec should point to Jason.

@Mykonian: pidgey is still town and you popping in to say "Prod dodge, trollol! Pidgey is still dumb scum b-t-dubs!" is scummy as fuck.

[AngryPidgeon]

PV, why are you not giving me the warm-fuzzies you gave me in NY159?

I said I don't think

both Nero and the messenger are scum

.

Because that is dumb. Im playing outguess the mod a little, but I think both of those roles being scum roles is highly unlikely.

And why are you buddying the crap out of Nero's awful post?

[AngryPidgeon]

No, but you said if the messenger flips scum, Nero would be prob-town and NKed immeditely.
How would we know who the messenger is?
How would the messenger die?
Why would the messenger flipping scum make Nero prob-town?
Why or why would Nero be nightkilled, esp. if he is only prob-town, and why is this sounding like it's an inducement while also sounding like it's a penalty?

If I am operating under the assumption that both roles aren't scum. Which means if the messenger flips scum. Nero is prob-town.

The whole discussion was about using a role to test Acosmist's claim. I suggested Nero do it. Nero said he is out of shots and that the messenger do it. If the messenger gets friendly with Acosmist and dies from

Syphillus

FOXDIE, then that confirms Acosmists's PGO claim.

Re last question: setup spec.

You say you agree with it but you apparently don't agree with ALL of it because you disagree about Mykonian. Id like to know what you liked about specifically; its not exactly a small post.

And Mastin has been posting a whole lot of scummy nonsense this game.

Lol. And accuse me of wagoning 'the next big thing' whilst leaving yourself open to just sheep Nero/Mastin.

Why do you think MoI is scummy?

[AngryPidgeon]

Now, I'm expected to believe that MoI couldn't come up with a plan to use the power of a proven, unblockable, possibly night-kill eating dayvig to press a town advantage?

We've been talking about getting Acosmist tested for a couple pages. (Ya Im going with Acosmist STD jokes)

Didn't you link a game in which MoI recommended NOT leashing an SK?

That sounds more relevant than MoI using town PRs in a plan in another game. And ya, he does that. He made a huge plan in Switchboard mafia.

And what plan could there possibly be for MoI to come up with. Its either lynch/don't lynch tammy. You are comparing apples to oranges.

[AngryPidgeon]

who you find scummy and a paragraph or so on why (and, no, you can't use "they attacked me" or any variant thereof as a reason)

But that is half of YOUR MoI case.

but because you're not changing your reads, and you're focusing on specific players.

Rock/Hard place I guess? Elscouta identified that I had pressured/called-scummy over half the player list and provided quotes and called me scummy for it. Now Im being told that I'm doing the opposite? Pay more attention to the game, mastin. I see you admitted to skipping over me/nero me/PV walls. In case it wasn't clear, they are scum too. I know I said that about PV explicitly.

My town reads (since Im posting less lists than usual) (no order): pidgey, MoI, Kise, Yates, Acosmist, Cheery (kind of).

Re MoI: lol. Ok, then your scumread on MoI can't be based on him pushing town-Elscouta, 'town'-you and 'town'-Mykonian. I specifically keep bringing this up and you never answer. So I really don't feel obligated to explain my MoI townread. For starters, the cases being made on him are terrible. But, hes just being genuine. His frustration reads genuine, his logic reads genuine. I can give a more detailed response with quotes, but I have a meeting shortly. Ttell me how your MoI scumread uses any criteria that you didn't ban me from using.
Re reads list: oh, cool I preempted that psychic-ly with my town list. I'll get on that in a couple mins.

[AngryPidgeon]

good

reading is good


and much harder then posting in this game.

I like you. You and mastin aren't sharing a QT this game are you?

[AngryPidgeon]

@

Peregrine

Mastin – Do you think spamming the thread with a bunch of random responses is effectively scum-hunting?

Ya mastin is scum
VOTE: Mastin

[AngryPidgeon]

Mastin: "Im going to lead the town with my obvtowniness"

And then posting wall posts that amount to a scattered reads list, buddying to those that agree with you, and shallow questions about activity and readslists.

Without having caught up.

[AngryPidgeon]

SQUID IIIIINK

Mykonian, your take on Mastin if you'd be a dear.

P-edit: fine. VOTE: Zabriel

p-pedit: What post. Its the shallow questions that actually bother me. Its really lacking of any original thought.

[AngryPidgeon]

Lol. "Look Im dynamically changing my reads like I accused AP of being scum for not doing. Ergo Im town"

[AngryPidgeon]

but I need it from you, since you're one of the few voices of strong reason in the town right now.

: /

Calling PV a strong voice? Hes been lurking his ass off. And his recent string of catchup posts sucked. You asked everyone else about why their activity sucked, but not PV?

@Mykonian: I can't tell if you are being sarcastic towards mastin or sarcastic towards me. Or saying that mastin is your best townread.

If its either of the latter, then: lol.

P-edit: And I dont recall getting a good answer to why Mykonian is town despite asking like 9001 times. Other than him getting pushed by MoI.