Why is that optimal?In post 16, Plotinus wrote:Since the rooms stay open for the whole game, it is optimal to create as many as possible.
Micro 845: The Room Odds - Game Over
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Don't you find Flavor's post to be self-conscious? Scum start the game thinking about themselves. Town start the game thinking about everyone else.In post 23, tris wrote:Mostly to make a wagon. I also was interested in your assigning scum points to Flavor Leaf's post. I doesn't seem scummy to me, so I was interested in knowing why you thought so. Of course, the more direct way to do that would be to ask you, but I felt like putting a naked vote to make a wagon instead and see what happens.-
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Can someone explain to me why setting random neighborhoods is beneficial?
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^ThisIn post 41, Dunnstral wrote:Kind of feels strange that us 3 are getting shoved into a room that none of us asked for, without any logic behind it beyond "everybody should be in a room"-
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I get that, but randomly assigning rooms before people have had a chance to form town reads doesn't accomplish that.In post 47, Plotinus wrote:I've modded a bunch of games with this mechanic. It's optimal for town to have places to work together out of scum's eyes, and you can scumhunt people in private differently from you can scumhunt them in public.-
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If I were scum I'd love a 2/3 room - would likely be pretty easy to pocket the townie.In post 65, Flavor Leaf wrote: I just sheeped onto the plan. Did we hit 2 scum with the three? Is it you and Dunn?
That would make sense why you were the only one sketched out about the room idea.-
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If you say so...In post 67, Flavor Leaf wrote: I’m the most genuine scum player on site. I’m far more self concious and self aware as town.
I also have a proven record of playing drastically different from everyone else on site.
Why would you expect someone who's never played with you before (and never even heard about you until a few days ago) to guess that you're a unique player and judge you according to some special set of rules?This is scummy.
p-edit: it's a general comment, nothing about you in particular.-
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As I didn't know that - point remains.
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You've got it backwards. I didn't question people who were like lol let's just get a PT. I questioned plot for pushing a structured rollout of rooms, and even assigning people to them. IOW, I was questioning the person who actually was trying to micromanage the mechanic.In post 89, Ruby Red wrote:i guess it's like exactly what i was talking about for SS being town but the opposite. feels like he cares more about micromanaging it than anything else
not inherently scummy but not the towny "lol let's just get a pt"-
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Huh? Plot wants rooms with a specific purposes: "for town to have places to work together out of scum's eyes,: and to "scumhunt people in private differently from you can scumhunt them in public."In post 105, Ruby Red wrote:
i never said you questioned people who just lolpickedIn post 103, Persivul wrote:You've got it backwards. I didn't question people who were like lol let's just get a PT. I questioned plot for pushing a structured rollout of rooms, and even assigning people to them. IOW, I was questioning the person who actually was trying to micromanage the mechanic.
imo plot wasn't really trying to micromanage so much as just encouraging the rooms in the first place
like this post shows a clear difference in mindset:
plot just wants rooms, you want rooms with a specific point / purposeIn post 52, Persivul wrote:
I get that, but randomly assigning rooms before people have had a chance to form town reads doesn't accomplish that.In post 47, Plotinus wrote:I've modded a bunch of games with this mechanic. It's optimal for town to have places to work together out of scum's eyes, and you can scumhunt people in private differently from you can scumhunt them in public.
I agree with the first, and am pointing out that it makes sense to, you know - actually have somewhat of a town read on someone before getting in a room with them for secret scum hunting. That's why I invited Dunn, as he was asking the same questions as I was.
I really don't agree with the second point.-
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He literally assigned me to a room.In post 107, Flavor Leaf wrote:Pretty sure you’re misrepping Plot there. He literally asked who wanted a room.-
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Yep. After he literally assigned people to a room and got push back on it, he unvoted.In post 110, Flavor Leaf wrote:And then he unvoted it the second issues rose up from it.-
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A person can only get two rooms per day phase.In post 16, Plotinus wrote:Since the rooms stay open for the whole game, it is optimal to create as many as possible. We should do one batch of 4 rooms now, then another batch of 4 rooms when the post restrictions expire, and then a final room when those post restrictions expire.-
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Looks like three to me.In post 114, Flavor Leaf wrote:
That’s why it’s two sets of batches. Everyone gets two.In post 113, Persivul wrote:
A person can only get two rooms per day phase.In post 16, Plotinus wrote:Since the rooms stay open for the whole game, it is optimal to create as many as possible. We should doone batchof 4 rooms now, thenanother batchof 4 rooms when the post restrictions expire, and thena final roomwhen those post restrictions expire.-
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OK, he was thinking only 2-person rooms at that time, so the final room was for the odd people out.In post 116, Flavor Leaf wrote:It’s 5 rooms per day, not 4. So it’s 2.-
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Actually I think you're right, if only by accident - see above.In post 118, Flavor Leaf wrote:I’m wrong. Idk where I got the 5 from.-
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OK, apparently you guys don't fit Ruby's lol let's do it model any more than I do. Personally I think it's best to have a purpose to what you do in a game. Not sure why that's an issue for Red.In post 122, Something_Smart wrote:Everything I do is for a purpose.-
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There's more:In post 154, tris wrote:@Persivul is your vote on Flavor just based on his first post or has his further content reinforced it?
67 - calls me scummy for applying a standard read technique to him because he's a unique snowflake and it doesn't apply to him. I don't know him. Why would he find it scummy that I'm analyzing him like that? I could understand if he said That doesn't apply to me, check my meta and you'll see. But there's no reason to find me scummy for it. He's apparently a BSD. If I'm scum and he's town, why would I pick a fight with him early?
68 - Oh yeah, I just said the guy's scummy, I better vote him.
But then there's 71 - "I’m overreacting. I realize that. I just got a little triggered from actually putting thought into the thread, then seeing the Persovul comments." That seems more like something an overreacting town would say. Scum would probably feel the need to stay the course at least for awhile. But if he's as good a scum player as he says, that's something he might do.-
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Wow clem, I would have saidIn post 168, Plotinus wrote:Clemency in 5 minutes I want to hearFuck youto that.-
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Cause plot was acting like you're his bitch.In post 179, Clemency wrote: how come?-
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Why?In post 192, Gamma Emerald wrote:I'd take a room with Clemency tbh
In our room, you asked three questions. You got answers. Then, when asked for your own thoughts, you dodged, saying that you've lost interest in mafia because you have other things going on.
Now you want a new room right away.-
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I'm too busy IRL to be in a dozen neighborhoods. If I knew that would be expected, I wouldn't have signed up for this game. The setup language - "if players are engaging in an annoying argument or if you just want a neighbourhood with your friends" - certainly doesn't indicate that.In post 215, Plotinus wrote:I'm going to assume they just don't care that much.-
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Not sure why I can't quote myself, but anyway:In post 217, Persivul wrote:VOTE: Plotinus
From the room, 3 days ago:
[Redacted - do not quote from PTs]
I was asked what I thought of plot. To paraphrase, I said:
- His first post is bad. I get using rooms for a reason. But, just making rooms to make rooms eventually sows confusion, and that benefits scum.
- Then I noted that I didn't like the reason given for the dunn vote in 140 because:
- It's not unusual for people to talk about novel mechanics at the start of a game.
- In 141, plot then addresses me and doesn't show suspicion, when I had expressed the same thoughts about rooms as dunn did.
- Again in 141 - "I am excited about the opportunity to apply graph theory to this coordination problem but we could scumhunt instead." But at that point, plot had mostly been talking about mechanics and had done very little scum hunting.
Then in 143 - "Clemency, you've disappeared. What are your reads?" This struck me as plot thinkingOh yeah, I haven't been scum hunting either, better throw some in.-
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- I'd want to compare and contrast what a person said in a single room with me to what they say in a room with a third person and in the general thread. As threads multiply, that's got to get difficult.In post 221, tris wrote:I don't understand this part. Why would making a bunch of rooms sow confusion?
- I would think that all these rooms would eventually lead to cases of he said/she said. Personally I think three person rooms are good for that reason. Unless two scum get in, what happens can be verified.
I didn't mention it in the previous post, but I also think the rooms tend to create apathy in the main thread. It's gotten pretty slow.-
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What do you think of the other parts?In post 221, tris wrote: I don't understand this part.-
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Yep.In post 236, Ruby Red wrote:i signed up for a game of mafia not matchmaking simulator 2019-
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You're not at all suspicious that he replied so quickly after your vote?In post 227, tris wrote:UNVOTE: Plotinus
I've got a reply from him, but I think I should let him speak for himself in here.
Can you see that from my POV you look like you just got pocketed by scum?-
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Disagree.In post 240, tris wrote:@Persivul. Would you agree or disagree with the assertion that you are more prickly as scum.
Why do you ask? Did someone tell you that secretly? If so, why don't they confront me publicly?-
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Is the scum team {pers, dunn, ruby}?In post 257, Plotinus wrote:Get a Room: Plotinus, Flavour Leaf
Point 1: Across the games that I've moderated with this setup,70% of scum players complained in public about rooms. Town were usually enthusiastic about them or at least neutral, though a few townies struggled to keep up if they were in fewer rooms than most people.
If not, you're using a stat disingenuously to push me, probably because I made a case on you to which you haven't responded.
Except that had nothing to do with my case on you. I just think your attitude and wording was rude.Point 2:Selective listening: When Persivul is trying to smear somebody and it turns out that his point is false, he completely ignores this information. For example, in 178-183, he ignores the clarification that Clemency's post restriction was 5 minutes away from expiring when I made that comment, so what I and Clemency understood my comment to mean was "I don't expect an answer in the next five minutes, but when you're free to talk about, please tell me..."
Continues to act like it's scummy? I made one point about your push for rooms being scummy: 220 "His first post is bad. I get using rooms for a reason. But, just making rooms to make rooms eventually sows confusion, and that benefits scum."He also continues to act like it's scummy that I'm pushing rooms when I've clarified multiple times that having modded this setup gives me insight into what the best strategy for town is. He has to do this because he knows that rooms are making it harder for him to control the game as scum.He's not trying to find out the truth, he's just trying to push his agenda.
Note that I was paraphrasing an argument that I had made several days previously in a room, and that referred to your first post on rooms. My main reason for scum reading you is your push on Dunn, as is apparent in that post.
After you clarified your reasoning on rooms, I actually agreed with you in part: 106 "Huh? Plot wants rooms with a specific purposes: "for town to have places to work together out of scum's eyes,: and to "scumhunt people in private differently from you can scumhunt them in public."
I agree with the first,"
So, you're misrepping me when you act as if I'm inflexible in my assessment of your position on rooms.
Do you have examples?Point 3:Tone. Persivul tends to use a different tone when he's town than when he's scum.
I had both a town game and a scum game end yesterday:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=77928
viewtopic.php?f=83&t=78139
Please, show how my tone in this game is clearly the same as my tone in the scum game, and clearly different from the tone in the town game.
I've been a little nasty in this game. Anyone who bothers to read these is going to see I wasn't like that at all in the scum game, but did show some snark in the town game.
So, either your memory is bad, your meta is out of date, or you're just making things up because I'm pushing you.-
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Go back and read Mini Normal 2044, which we played together as town. Check my tone there. You'll see me saying things likeIn post 260, Clemency wrote:yeah i'll follow this logicI think your vote is lazy af, he spams games with a ton of fluff in a thousand one-line posts, etc. You won't see things like that in the scum game above. You do see that kind of tone in this game.
So...why do you follow that logic?-
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Of course it felt different - we were all participating in one thread. If you compare this game to the town and scum games I linked above, you'll find that this one feels different from both of those as well. This game is different from most games. The relevant question is, is my tone in this game closer to my tone in town games, or my tone in scum games? Another possibility is that my tone isn't AI at all.In post 271, Clemency wrote:idk 2044 felt a lot different in my opinion
You should also consider scum motivations for my play in this game. What's the motivation for scum!persivul to pick a fight with a town leader*, and to proactively make a push on that person? There is none. A scum I'd NK plot, not make a risky and unnecessary early D1 push.
*Make no mistake that plot has set himself up as a town leader. If scum pulls that off, it's game over, particularly with the lack of investigatives in this setup. That's part of why I'm vetting plotnow.-
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OK, what did you think about these from my town game (emphasis added):In post 272, Plotinus wrote:I read the games and I think "I think your vote is lazy af" isn't particularly mean. I think Persivul's tone here is more like what I would expect for him as scum.In post 300, Persivul wrote:In post 294, Almost50 wrote:I wouldn't call it a tactical replace out seeing as it's done very early and before anything develops in the game.Then just STFU about it.In post 480, Persivul wrote:
Three things:In post 477, Xtoxm wrote:Pers. You've posted enough that I feel like I should have got something town from you. What's your vote on springtap about?
- he hasn't done any scum hunting, as I've noted
-partially just a "Fuck you"to 301
- I feel pretty good about it because Una, who's one of my townier reads, later voted there for awhile.In post 747, Persivul wrote:More like:
That sick feeling whenand
You reconsider your result and
Realize you fucked up
Just outed yourself as a PR
For no good reason.In post 1213, Persivul wrote:[quote="InIn post 1509, Persivul wrote:In post 1506, Not_Mafia wrote:Why are we not lynching Gamma?Why are you so useless?-
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Here's a game from that time period in which I was town:In post 272, Plotinus wrote: It's true that the games I was thinking of were older because I haven't played in a while and neither has Persivul. But off the top of my head, wifom city, friends and enemies, Evolution mafia, Mexican standoff. I'll be the first to admit that those games were a long time ago, and the difference isn't as pronounced between your latest two games, though I do think it's there. Maybe your last scum game wasn't as frustrating as this one.
It's not a matter of being snarky; I like a bit of snark as much anyone. Your snark has a little more barbed when you're scum. That's all.
viewtopic.php?f=54&t=64679
You were in this game (in a hydra).
A couple quotes (it won't let me use the quote function, so I'll just C&P relevant text):
Pussy.Respond to it yourself.
Ends of the earth? Are you lying, or just prone to hyperbole? I voted you in 129 and followed up in 141.Where the fuck do you getends of the earth from those two posts?
Are you fucking insane?
Likewise. I don't know if it's a language issueor if you're just a fucking idiot, but talking with you is painful.-
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How am I supposed to respond to a charge that I'm nasty as scum, if not by showing counterexamples?In post 281, Clemency wrote:now it just sounds like you're forcing it
There, I showed a game in which I was town and nasty.
I could also show a game from that time in which I was scum, yet calm and polite. Would that also be "forcing it"?-
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Dunn - lean town, both from PT and main content.In post 286, tris wrote:@Persivul What do you think of players other than Plotinus?
You - town. Was saying this privately pretty early. Plot's a name, so I didn't think you'd ask for a room with him if you were scum. Plus, since then, you've had both pros and cons to say about him.
Clem - quiet and guarded relative to other games I've seen him in.
Gamma - I always have difficulty with gamma. Hate to say it but I don't think she's a great player, and I have to separate poor play from scummy play. She frequently misinterprets things I say, to the point I can't tell if she's strategically misrepping me, or just not understanding. That said, I don't like that she was asking questions in the PT but not giving anything herself - struck me as gathering ammo rather than trying to solve.
SS - hasn't said much in main. In his few posts he has poked at people, and hasn't jumped on a wagon, so that's good.
Ruby - I've never seen him this quiet, and I don't know what to make of it.
What doyouthink about everyone?-
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Why ask this? Why not just answer? You're in two, and one hasn't had activity since Sunday, so it's pretty easy:In post 299, Gamma Emerald wrote:
Which one?In post 259, Flavor Leaf wrote:@Gamma - What’s going on your PT?Nothing in one, _____ in the other.-
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Do you understand the logic?In post 300, Gamma Emerald wrote:I was townreading Persivul by hood posting but his response here killed that
Especially the first part, scum don’t have to be in that set for one scum to complain about rooms being set up. That’s some very blatantly wrong logic.
Plot identified three people who had complained about the rooms, and said that in his experience modding scum tend to complain about the rooms. It's reasonable for me to then ask why I'm the only one being pushed, and why the other two in the list aren't also scum (I forgot at the time it's a micro and was thinking of a standard mini 3p team). Plot seemed to understand the point, and responed that yes, dunn is his other main scum read.-
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You're in a room with clem. What have you gotten from that?In post 301, Gamma Emerald wrote:Why are people suspecting Clem, and also Ruby, why do you think the team is me and Clem?-
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What exactly are you arguing regarding tone?In post 303, Plotinus wrote:Pers, okay, you were a jerk in ClownTardis, too. I'm not arguing that you are 100% jerk as scum and 100% angel as town, that would be ridiculous.
I provide counter examples to what you seem to be saying, but you say no, it's too subtle for that. You sound like scum pushing an agenda and moving the goalposts so that it's unfalsifiable, or town who's confbiasing.-
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Hasn'tIn post 325, tris wrote:
Why is it good that he hasn't joined a wagon?In post 306, Persivul wrote: SS - hasn't said much in main. In his few posts he has poked at people, and hasn't jumped on a wagon, so that's good.jumped ona wagon. There's a difference between jumping on a wagon just because, andjoininga wagon for stated reasons.-
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So, you think that:In post 368, Flavor Leaf wrote:Plotinus living implicates ScumPersivul.
I feel like if they were TvT one of them would have been the death. There's still the WIFOM about it, but I'm feeling that scum is Persivul and then one of Clemency/Ruby
- I let Plot, who scum reads me, live
- I killed Tris, whose last mention of me in 337 was a town read.
The logic of that is...?-
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This pinged me slightly at the time. Coupled with the facts that you didn't come back toward deadline to discuss, and it's plurality lynching (with town loss of deflector), this is scummy af. Basically, you didn't care whether it was me or gamma who died, and hey, clem would be fine too...and you didn't care enough about keeping the deflector to come back and make sure there was a majority (although TBF that last point applies to others as well).In post 295, Flavor Leaf wrote:Consider me a pseudo vote on a Clemency for now.
I’m gonna stick with Persivul. I like the L-2 pressure.
VOTE: Flavor
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I actually endorse this.
Get a room: Persivul, Ruby, Flavor-
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^ReminderIn post 409, Persivul wrote:Get a room: Persivul, Flavor
I'll go back to including Ruby if we get the votes, but it doesn't look like that's going to happen.-
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Please tell me you're not serious about this.In post 419, Nancy Drew 39 wrote:I doubt that it makes any sense for any scum to be on the counterwagon, so Persivul wagon is probably all town.-
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Because he came in with an illogical push on me - saying that Plotinus being alive indicates I'm scum.In post 420, Nancy Drew 39 wrote:So, why is Flavor the lead wagon?
Please tell me you're not serious about this.Does it really make any sense for scum!Flavor to not be on the town!Gamma Wagon in this setup? I think Plotinus, Clem, Flavor are all mechanically spewed town by this. VCA never lies.-
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Why do you think a room with Plot will help you solve the game better than a room with me and flavor? If you think I'm scum and flavor's town, wouldn't you like the chance for the both of you to grill me?In post 457, Nancy Drew 39 wrote:Awesome, how do we go about getting a room then? Do I bold it or something?-
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You could have said "No." If you were interested in the game being solved, I'd think you'd want a me/Nancy/Flavor room.In post 486, Plotinus wrote:Why is it my fault when I quite clearly pointed out to Nancy that Persivul and Flavour had wanted the room with her first and that I was happy to go second?-
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368 - The very first post of the day.In post 509, Nancy Drew 39 wrote: Can you link/quote me on that?
I thought you were sure they wereYou think there was no scum on the Gamma wagon? because I’m pretty sure there was a least one.bothon Gamma, because VCA never lies. 419 420
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