Micro 887: the coaLITion [game over]

[Gamma Emerald]

[Gamma Emerald]

I think the Coalition should be the 5 strongest/Towniest players not just for the obvious reasons of the D1 wincon but also as a weak investigational tool if it fails - if the Coalition fails we know there’s a deep wolf in a group where we might not otherwise suspect scum to be.

Having played this setup twice, I agree with this

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Lil Uzi Vert

weakest entrance thus far imo

Why

[Gamma Emerald]

Could you maybe try playing the game and stop following the solve the setup philosophy?

Okay this feels like an overreaction

[Gamma Emerald]

Could you maybe try playing the game and stop following the solve the setup philosophy?

Okay this feels like an overreaction

Same thing goes for you.

Actually how though.
VOTE: LUV
Don't recall you being this defensive.

[Gamma Emerald]

has town ever won by correctly selecting an all town coalition D1?

No. I think they've gotten close in the past.

[Gamma Emerald]

has town ever won by correctly selecting an all town coalition D1?

No. I think they've gotten close in the past.

wrong???

you were literally scum in the game that town won day one????

???

wiki link for the unaware – The Coalition

-nsg

Then my memory fails me because I recall that not happening, though I do recall losing

[Gamma Emerald]

I do remember my strategy that game was to throw myself into the townblock as hard as I could, and the thing that ended me was painting myself into a corner. So probably force people to be clear on reads so they can't have much wiggle room.

[Gamma Emerald]

Could you maybe try playing the game and stop following the solve the setup philosophy?

Okay this feels like an overreaction

Same thing goes for you.

Actually how though.
VOTE: LUV
Don't recall you being this defensive.

Why is defensive scum-indicative, necessarily? Never actually had someone explain this to me.

At least as I see it, scum are more concern about keeping themselves alive so they respond to pressure more defensively.

[Gamma Emerald]

Could you maybe try playing the game and stop following the solve the setup philosophy?

Okay this feels like an overreaction

Same thing goes for you.

Actually how though.
VOTE: LUV
Don't recall you being this defensive.

Why is defensive scum-indicative, necessarily? Never actually had someone explain this to me.

At least as I see it, scum are more concern about keeping themselves alive so they respond to pressure more defensively.

Fair enough; makes sense. Really not sure it’s enough to call LUV scum over, but you do you, I guess.

Do you have any reads yet Gamma?

Beyond scumreading LUV, got early townreads on Alchemist and Espresso, and kinda suspect RCMA

[Gamma Emerald]

why do you suspect RCMA, Gamma? i thought his reaction to my heal vote was a little over the top, but i've never played with him before so i'm not sure

NSG seems a little I'd say overzealous, in a not genuine way. Trying too hard is probably the best way to put it.

[Gamma Emerald]

I think that's a really old meta
Can you give recent examples of that?

[Gamma Emerald]

I'd guess RC

[Gamma Emerald]

Could you maybe try playing the game and stop following the solve the setup philosophy?

Okay this feels like an overreaction

Same thing goes for you.

Actually how though.
VOTE: LUV
Don't recall you being this defensive.

I’m not sure if you’re misrepresenting me. Where am I anxious to challenge or avoid criticism?

You're anxious to challenge because you blindly snapped back by calling my call-out of you an overreaction.

[Gamma Emerald]

so since i like Espresso and

Spangled

so far:

y?


HEAL: NC 39

HURT: Spangeled

Making a nice and pointed statement there.

@Gamma
Was people adding themselves to their own coalitions helpful and/or useful in that D1 town-win game?

Yes.

[Gamma Emerald]

I wasn't even really focusing on the setup yet when you posted that. I just said I agreed with Alchemist's approach. Still think your response was defensive given that info btw.

[Gamma Emerald]

[/color]HEAL: Gamma

The Gamma v LUV disagreement looks genuine + Gamma came out of it looking more town.

HEAL: Spangled

Liking Spangled's posting style thus far. I'm not yet certain if the wide coalition read on Spangled is a good or bad thing, but I'm treating it as a good thing for now.

I’ve seen UTRs be scum, but the biggest, most-AI thing is (in my limited experience) why they end up being UTRed. I don’t know how many people here know emps, but he’s been UTRed up until around EoD2 as scum before, mostly due to tone, and a sheer number of posts, most of which were actually pretty contentless, but seemed helpful.
Townreads everyone agrees on win games, though, especially this one.

Also, about the Gamma v LUV thing, I think Gamma came out of it

somewhat

towny, but what did you think about LUV? Did you agree with Gamma on his defensiveness?

I like this question from Spangled
HEAL: Spangled
HEAL: Gamma Emerald as well now that I'm starting my coalition

[Gamma Emerald]

what's a UTR? ultra townread?

Under the radar
Hrmmmm

[Gamma Emerald]

Okay no I got something twisted

[Gamma Emerald]

I know UTR as Under The Radar, like what

[Gamma Emerald]

Alch explained that later

[Gamma Emerald]

for my part i'm just going to treat EP like a nonparticipant in the game and hope that we win via coalition not including them regardless of their alignment.

Ew
I feel semi confident I can read EP

[Gamma Emerald]

He says things that scum would say in the manner that scum says them.

Elaborate? Firstly that's rather vague and second I dont really agree with that read or logic rn.

[Gamma Emerald]

He says things that scum would say in the manner that scum says them.

Elaborate? Firstly that's rather vague and second I dont really agree with that read or logic rn.

why do you townread spangled? is it just this question?

-nsg

More that I think his sorting is towny

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Lil Uzi Vert

weakest entrance thus far imo

Dude, he did two things: greet the thread as he literally almost always does, and agreed with someone who disagreed with you... OMGUS, or just a lack of willingness to meta someone? A combination, perchance?

I like this entrance, the questioning feels organic.

Could you maybe try playing the game and stop following the solve the setup philosophy?

Okay this feels like an overreaction

Same thing goes for you.

Actually how though.
VOTE: LUV
Don't recall you being this defensive.

Why is defensive scum-indicative, necessarily? Never actually had someone explain this to me.

This questioning feels objective which I'd say is towny. I think scum would try to steer things in X or Y direction.

Hey, Hectic, what made you decide on that specific coalition to vote for?
Why me, why NC 39, etc.?

I feel like prodding at townreads (if that's what it was) in this way is towny.

Could you maybe try playing the game and stop following the solve the setup philosophy?

Okay this feels like an overreaction

Same thing goes for you.

Actually how though.
VOTE: LUV
Don't recall you being this defensive.

Why is defensive scum-indicative, necessarily? Never actually had someone explain this to me.

At least as I see it, scum are more concern about keeping themselves alive so they respond to pressure more defensively.

Fair enough; makes sense. Really not sure it’s enough to call LUV scum over, but you do you, I guess.

Do you have any reads yet Gamma?

Seems motivated in driving the discussion.

so since i like Espresso and

Spangled

so far:

y?


HEAL: NC 39

HURT: Spangeled

Making a nice and pointed statement there.

@Gamma
Was people adding themselves to their own coalitions helpful and/or useful in that D1 town-win game?

Shows investment in figuring out setup strategies. This is towny imo because scum would probably already have a plan.

@Alchemist
Got any reads yet?

@Clemency
Any reads yet?

I like the desire to pull reads out of players.

[Gamma Emerald]

A couple other things
@Alchemist: you said you wanted to wait to replace me + NC 39 instead of just taking us out. What changed your mind and why?
Also, NC 39 feels off to me.

[Gamma Emerald]

I don't agree and I don't know what to cite besides I'm better than you.

Yeah that's not convincing me. Quick question: besides Pokémon Ruby have you been N1d in any recent games?

[Gamma Emerald]

Just so we're clear, EP isn't policy. He's taken the same line of play that scum in the vast majority of my recent games have taken with me. Try to discredit me, call me scum while avoiding engagement and discrediting townreads on me. The NSG engagement is even worse, she has a clearly established meta of efforting less as scum and there's even a hydra game of the two of us where we were scum where she literally posted once, and he's handwaving that as well. It's not an honest interaction with my slot: either his approach to this game was clearly defined before game as prevent RChydra from being in the coalition at all costs or he is scum.

It's hard for me to figure out which one is correct so I'm instead choosing to just bucket him as a non-coalition player and hope to win the game without dealing with him.

I don’t think he’s trying not to engage with you as hard as you think; if you give him time and ask him good, pointed questions, rather than deciding as the be-all and end-all on page 7 that he’s probably scum choosing to ignore larger meta in favour of his own experience of your meta — which people are going to naturally default to, especially if they haven’t actually properly meta’d you — we won’t get any kind of consensus on him for a long time, and it will probably be impossible to do so.

^ this is an excellent post

[Gamma Emerald]

skimming through NC 39's ISO, i like everything he's said so far

though would like to hear your opinion on the RC side of the RCMA hydra

HEAL: NC 39

I'm concerned about how they're, like, sliding alongside me
Feels like buddying.

[Gamma Emerald]

That and poking at Alchemist the way they are

[Gamma Emerald]

Btw @RC I feel like you're kinda reading EP similarly to Pokémon Ruby rn

[Gamma Emerald]

i dislike it when people ask the generic question "what are your reads" without any seeming deeper purpose

Why? Do you have examples of scum doing it?

[Gamma Emerald]

That was poorly stated. Do you have it on record that scum do it more? Could you provide examples if that's the case?

[Gamma Emerald]

do you often ask for hard data proving that scumtells are valid, or do you simply disagree with my application of it? (also, i hope you realize that me simply linking games in which scum said "what are your reads" wouldn't really prove anything)

It's just a one off, because I felt like you were asserting that specific action was scummy. The questioning was because I think it's perfectly possible it comes from either alignment so I wanted data on the trend. As for the actual point it goes into, I disagree that Spangled is pretending to contribute, for why see my wall post I made earlier. I don't think what he's posted is pretend contribution.

[Gamma Emerald]

sky give extension

-nsg

This plz
The short deadline kinda makes forming a decent coalition hard. Even if we just get an extended D1 deadline I'll be happy

[Gamma Emerald]

HEAL: RC most awesomest
I think they're town, but moreover I'm trying to fast track a majority coalition because of the deadline, and this is the most common coalition choice I see rn

[Gamma Emerald]

HURT: Spangled
I still think he's town but I don't feel so strongly about it that I'd keep him in my coalition when he's probably not going to be in the majority one

[Gamma Emerald]

HEAL: Alchemist

-nsg

Talk about this pls

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma, actually, doesn’t really feel the same to me as the last game we were in; tonally they actually feel a bit weirdly different from how I remember them.

Want mr to talk about this, because I can def talk about it and explain what is different

[Gamma Emerald]

Well I was a cop that game and that affected how I played in that game. I'm not here. Like you saw Persivul poking me for bring different, he was right even though he was scum.

[Gamma Emerald]

This is almost the exact line of reasoning I used on my scum read of you

How tho

[Gamma Emerald]

Just so we're clear, EP isn't policy. He's taken the same line of play that scum in the vast majority of my recent games have taken with me.

This is almost the exact line of reasoning I used on my scum read of you and you nearly wrote me out of the game because of it.

I disliked your reaction to my read because it was either scummy or petty, and neither is good for town.

Try to discredit me, call me scum while avoiding engagement and discrediting townreads on me.

Please show me where I haven't engaged.

The NSG engagement is even worse, she has a clearly established meta of efforting less as scum and there's even a hydra game of the two of us where we were scum where she literally posted once, and he's handwaving that as well. It's not an honest interaction with my slot: either his approach to this game was clearly defined before game as prevent RChydra from being in the coalition at all costs or he is scum.
[...]

I'd say my engagement with nsg has been pretty good, actually. That's mostly because she was willing to engage back.

Now that you're back to acknowledging me, we can start to move forward here.

I felt like this entire post is trying to stick what EP was accused of onto RCMA

[Gamma Emerald]

This is almost the exact line of reasoning I used on my scum read of you

How tho

See post 97. If you still don't agree in the similar reasoning, I'm happy to weigh in further.

I don't see what in 97 covers "looks like how scum treat me in other games"

[Gamma Emerald]

Spoiler:

Just so we're clear, EP isn't policy. He's taken the same line of play that scum in the vast majority of my recent games have taken with me.

This is almost the exact line of reasoning I used on my scum read of you and you nearly wrote me out of the game because of it.

I disliked your reaction to my read because it was either scummy or petty, and neither is good for town.

Try to discredit me, call me scum while avoiding engagement and discrediting townreads on me.

Please show me where I haven't engaged.

The NSG engagement is even worse, she has a clearly established meta of efforting less as scum and there's even a hydra game of the two of us where we were scum where she literally posted once, and he's handwaving that as well. It's not an honest interaction with my slot: either his approach to this game was clearly defined before game as prevent RChydra from being in the coalition at all costs or he is scum.
[...]

I'd say my engagement with nsg has been pretty good, actually. That's mostly because she was willing to engage back.

Now that you're back to acknowledging me, we can start to move forward here.

I felt like this entire post is trying to stick what EP was accused of onto RCMA

What, in your opinion, was I accused of?

On top of the "doing what scum do around me" thing, you also say "I engaged with NSG because she engaged back", which seems to be placing the blame on RC not engaging you for why you haven't really interacted, when that's not the case as I see it and RC had poked at you for refusing to interact with him except to call him scum.

[Gamma Emerald]

1: yes
2: I have not read your ISO yet.

[Gamma Emerald]

not a big fan of Gamma randomly trying to apply pressure to me.

I don’t really like this... applying pressure is almost always an action town takes...
Or was it how he applied pressure that you didn’t like?

CLEARLY.

CLEARLY

.

this is something scum never do.

of course, you have the "almost always" defense setup.

Also, NC 39 feels off to me.

I'm concerned about how they're, like, sliding alongside me
Feels like buddying.

These are just weak accusations that he hasn't backed up at all.

Okay. You don't think you responding to a question directed at me and reacting with blank (undetailed) abjection to Alchemist saying your and my slot weren't towny enough for a coalition looked a little off to me? And like Spangled has a point, your suspicion of me is pretty weak itself.

[Gamma Emerald]

1: yes
2: I have not read your ISO yet.

In that case, can you please read my ISO first? My answer to your RC questions earlier will essentially be me rehashing what I've already said.

This is almost the exact line of reasoning I used on my scum read of you

How tho

See post 97. If you still don't agree in the similar reasoning, I'm happy to weigh in further.

I don't see what in 97 covers "looks like how scum treat me in other games"

RC said: "[EP has] taken the same line of play that scum in the vast majority of my recent games have taken with me.

I said: RC was playing differently from his usually aggressive town game, which was a method I have seen experienced scum do in some of my recent games.
Proof:

Spoiler:

[...]Second, I'm saying you're behaving differently than the RC I have played with and observed through reading other games.

I also fail to see why you think I'm trying to tilt you by scumreading you + not putting you in my coalition. It's part of the game.

[...]

RC's intro reads like an excuse for him to not play his usual town game. I'm not familiar with RC's scum game, but from the games I've played with + seen him in, he usually plays aggressive town.

I'd like some more information from @nsg. Specifically, why do you think I'm scum + what is your answer to my question about the past game.

i don't think rc is the kind of person who needs an excuse when he's playing scum.

I have no doubt in RC's abilities, but I've seen this method used a few times by experienced players. Nobody is above it.

Both of us were saying that the other was taking a line of play consistent with scum behaviour we had witnessed in recent games.

How is RC playing less aggressive in line with what you've seen other scum do?

[Gamma Emerald]

Is there some reason you are mischaracterizing my post here? RC, objected to Spangled being in the coalition and then Alchemist removed both of us, after saying “fine”. I referenced that because RCMA made no mention of us, so I was wondering why Alchemist seemed to make that connection.

I had agreed with some of your posts but obviously not all and I explained the reasoning for that. I’m very curious how that read as “buddying” to you?

I'm pretty sure you had a similar reaction to Alchemist's initial statement that he'd remove us from his coalition as when he actually did it. So first off you seem very on edge, which also makes you looks suspicious outside the buddying situation, and second I feel like you're trying to get me associated with you.

[Gamma Emerald]

Is there some reason you are mischaracterizing my post here? RC, objected to Spangled being in the coalition and then Alchemist removed both of us, after saying “fine”. I referenced that because RCMA made no mention of us, so I was wondering why Alchemist seemed to make that connection.

I had agreed with some of your posts but obviously not all and I explained the reasoning for that. I’m very curious how that read as “buddying” to you?

I'm pretty sure you had a similar reaction to Alchemist's initial statement that he'd remove us from his coalition as when he actually did it. So first off you seem very on edge, which also makes you looks suspicious outside the buddying situation, and second I feel like you're trying to get me associated with you.

What do you mean by ‘trying to get me associated with you’? What kind of agenda do you think they’re pushing as scum, sorry?

I think they're trying to make me look like I'm bad with them.

[Gamma Emerald]

for the record, i replaced into this slot because i iso'd clemency's lines and thought he was extremely blatantly town

looking forward to living up to his reputation

Talk about this.

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma, actually, doesn’t really feel the same to me as the last game we were in; tonally they actually feel a bit weirdly different from how I remember them.

Want mr to talk about this, because I can def talk about it and explain what is different

Well I was a cop that game and that affected how I played in that game. I'm not here. Like you saw Persivul poking me for bring different, he was right even though he was scum.

Gamma let’s talk about this. If being a Cop changed your tone in that other game why would your tone be similar to your Cop play here when everyone is Vanilla?

Uhhhhh what
I'm saying because I was a cop in that game and I'm not in this one I had a different tone
Like you seem to have completely missed the point here.

[Gamma Emerald]

Oh, that makes sense. My bad.

Ok

[Gamma Emerald]

gamma, why did you say that RC was town in #207? fast-tracking a majority coalition seems like a mistake to me, and an easy way to tr people carelessly

Sorting feels genuine, especially wrt EP and the logic there, and don't feel like he's trying too much to dominate the game

[Gamma Emerald]

And yeah the fast track thing probably would look dumb at this point but I was trying to make it so we could get a coalition and lynch off is Sky said no to a deadline extension

[Gamma Emerald]

do you feel that he typically tries to dominate the game as scum?

Yes, and the word "try" is important. Sometimes he'll do so as town but it's not the main intent.

[Gamma Emerald]

Also I can see the clemency thing

[Gamma Emerald]

If that's a PoE then what does the middle mean

[Gamma Emerald]

my disengagement will show you all that I’m obvious town here.

How tho

[Gamma Emerald]

sky give extension

-nsg

This plz
The short deadline kinda makes forming a decent coalition hard. Even if we just get an extended D1 deadline I'll be happy

The bitching about the deadline is annoying. The coalition is not isn’t the be all end all. I’d be pissed as scum right now if Sky granted this.

Then you're more interested in the win than a fair fight. If I won because of that crap it'd be a hollow victory. That's rather rude of you I feel.

[Gamma Emerald]

And also nice typo buddy, shame I forgot what the fuck tell that is but it looks scummy. And the coalition is the main mechanic of the game for fuck's sake, honestly you seem rather unhappy about the current situation already.

[Gamma Emerald]

There's actually a tell of weird looking typos being indicators of scum leaving something in the post after revising. I think it has some dumb name.

[Gamma Emerald]

True, but scum have more reason to rethink their posts. I'll frequently just vomit out a post as town that I might look over more as scum, because I just don't give a damn about policing myself over the small stuff.

[Gamma Emerald]

1: yes
2: I have not read your ISO yet.

In that case, can you please read my ISO first? My answer to your RC questions earlier will essentially be me rehashing what I've already said.

This is almost the exact line of reasoning I used on my scum read of you

How tho

See post 97. If you still don't agree in the similar reasoning, I'm happy to weigh in further.

I don't see what in 97 covers "looks like how scum treat me in other games"

RC said: "[EP has] taken the same line of play that scum in the vast majority of my recent games have taken with me.

I said: RC was playing differently from his usually aggressive town game, which was a method I have seen experienced scum do in some of my recent games.
Proof:

Spoiler:

[...]Second, I'm saying you're behaving differently than the RC I have played with and observed through reading other games.

I also fail to see why you think I'm trying to tilt you by scumreading you + not putting you in my coalition. It's part of the game.

[...]

RC's intro reads like an excuse for him to not play his usual town game. I'm not familiar with RC's scum game, but from the games I've played with + seen him in, he usually plays aggressive town.

I'd like some more information from @nsg. Specifically, why do you think I'm scum + what is your answer to my question about the past game.

i don't think rc is the kind of person who needs an excuse when he's playing scum.

I have no doubt in RC's abilities, but I've seen this method used a few times by experienced players. Nobody is above it.

Both of us were saying that the other was taking a line of play consistent with scum behaviour we had witnessed in recent games.

How is RC playing less aggressive in line with what you've seen other scum do?

Again, please read my ISO, as I have already answered this question.

For your convenience - here it is: FormerFish did the exact same thing in Purge. I know him as an aggressive town player, so when he left some throwaway comment about sitting back that game, I (correctly) called it out as scummy.

If your point is that the "announcing your playing differently" thing is what scum have done, that doesn't seem too valid as I did it in two simultaneous games as town and scum, where the intent was to try a new method. So like my objection is if there's a viable reason for the change then I wouldn't call it scummy.

[Gamma Emerald]

Why didn't YOU care that Achlem was reading you wrong?

I didn't really feel like it needed to be addressed. If it was more substantiated I might have.
Also your reads seem really weak rn

[Gamma Emerald]

My thinking is most of the real outrage is stuck in the scum PT and in the main thread he just seems a little POed as a result

[Gamma Emerald]

Why didn't YOU care that Achlem was reading you wrong?

I didn't really feel like it needed to be addressed. If it was more substantiated I might have.
Also your reads seem really weak rn

Any in particular?

It's more a general statement because of how ill formed they seem.

[Gamma Emerald]

I don't like how you structured your PoE reads list, it seems your only real FoS is me, but LUV is lower? In addition there's my pre-exusting confusion about what the middle of the list is supposed to mean. It honestly feels like you vomited out reads without thinking them over really at all. That's what I mean.

[Gamma Emerald]

RC null

hectic mafia

Talk about these please

[Gamma Emerald]

I don't like how you structured your PoE reads list, it seems your only real FoS is me, but LUV is lower? In addition there's my pre-exusting confusion about what the middle of the list is supposed to mean. It honestly feels like you vomited out reads without thinking them over really at all. That's what I mean.

It was a list of who I have as towniest to least towniest. It was in tiers, which I’ve already explained. It’s not my problem that you are inexplicably choosing to ignore that. Yes, it’s true, my read on you has plummeted. Maybe if you stop mischaracterizing my posts and insisting you understand my thought process better than I do, that might change.

Your middle makes no sense though wrt what it means.

[Gamma Emerald]

Okay, point taken, but in that case what separates those groups? Confidence?

[Gamma Emerald]

Well as it is, it looks like it's completely arbitrary. How am I supposed to read arbitrary read list divisions?

[Gamma Emerald]

Well as it is, it looks like it's completely arbitrary. How am I supposed to read arbitrary read list divisions?

Why? Because you disagree with it?

Because it doesn't make sense to write it like that. Thank you for explaining, but I don't like the fact I had to work so hard for it to happen.

[Gamma Emerald]

as for RC, i just feel like they've done nothing so far that they wouldn't be capable of faking as scum. they seem to have lots of frustration with the way the game is being approached, and they're trying to discredit the universal townread on spangled as much as they can. but they haven't taken many solid stances yet as far as reads go and their tone just seems bitter and detached. i don't scumread them but i don't see a reason to believe that they're town yet. also, i was lowkey mad that they tried to discredit my reads/play in #377. seemed like an unnecessarily aggressive way to address me.

Why does NSG not factor into the read?
Noted about Hectic.

[Gamma Emerald]

@Gamma
Could we get a read on GREAT and NC 39?

I think it's pretty clear I scumread NC 39. As for YAG I feel like she's town rn.

[Gamma Emerald]

I'd probably say it's not as strong as it was a little bit earlier, but I don't like their way of reacting to things and the way they're handling questioning feels kinda bad

[Gamma Emerald]

I mean look at how much time I had to put in to get a simple explanation for why a PoE list was structured how it was. Like I feel if I had to describe that hydra's play in one word it would be "defensive". They don't seem to handle any sort of pushing/pressure at all.

[Gamma Emerald]

Thanks for breaking my flow Sky

[Gamma Emerald]

You're explaining things yes, but not in a way that makes sense. Maybe I just have a stick up my ass though, but I do think you've been defensive with Alchemist and some others

[Gamma Emerald]

I am collecting all the posts I find defensive from NC39 and I'd like to withdraw my accusation of trying to tie me with them

[Gamma Emerald]

Spoiler:

nancy

, clem, where are youuuuuuuu

-nsg

Was this directed to me specifically or my hydra?

I also would like to understand why Espresso is your strongest sr and why you’re tr LUV?

I’m currently tl Espresso and null on LUV, so what am I missing?

If I did change it I would just take out NC

y?

HURT: spangled

removing from our heal list, will discuss it with nsg later.

Fine.

HURT: NC 39, Gamma Emerald

???

LUV is still scum.

RC is town.

HURT: LUV

HEAL: RC

not a big fan of Gamma randomly trying to apply pressure to me.

Don't like how Alchem is ignoring me as I think that often comes from scum.

And still, dislike Spangled.

but thats too many scum reads. So I'm wrong on 2 of those 4.

HEAL: RC most awesomest, Hectic, EspressoPatronum, NC 39 is a rock-solid coalition but I'm hesitant to add Clemency as some of his posts pinged me earlier.

So basically, who are the other town between Clem, Gamma, Alchem, and Spangled and I guess LUV in case I'm wrong but I don't think I am?

Okay. You don't think you responding to a question directed at me and reacting with blank (undetailed) abjection to Alchemist saying your and my slot weren't towny enough for a coalition looked a little off to me? And like Spangled has a point, your suspicion of me is pretty weak itself.

I always ask ppl that are scum reading me why they are scum reading me regardless of alignment. We've also played a bunch together. Are you telling me that I've never once asked anyone that was scum reading me why they were scum reading me? And just in general, why is that a bad question? Should we just all be throwing out reads without reasons given? Why didn't

YOU

care that Achlem was reading you wrong? Or was he not?

And like Spangled has a point, your suspicion of me is pretty weak itself.

that's really really not what he said though.

I agree that those are fairly weak accusations, but you can’t really back up a read that seems to be completely gut.

He's saying that

YOUR

accusations are weak but defended them as gut despite that a buddying accusation is in fact not a gut accusation. Maybe one could argue that the "NC feels off" is a gut accusation but you are claiming you felt this way b/c I asked Aclem was he was not townreading me.

Well as it is, it looks like it's completely arbitrary. How am I supposed to read arbitrary read list divisions?

Why? Because you disagree with it?

These are the posts I find defensive from NC 39. It's less than I expected, and I think that's mostly because I had my head up my ass regarding my own interactions with them.

[Gamma Emerald]

Yeah. I'd say I have them closer to null. And the hero thing makes sense because we have definitely clashed in the past. Maybe I'll just try to read Nancy exclusively.

[Gamma Emerald]

Tbh I'd been feeling like we were getting on better huh I just proved myself wrong. And I think Nancy makes a good comment about this happening before

[Gamma Emerald]

Lmao.

“If Alchemist is Townreading anyone it’s appeasement you guys.”

Fuck outta here with that bs. You’re coming up with any reason to scumread me because you don’t like that I’m scumreading you.

if people want me to paint an Alchemist!scum that i don't actually believe, i can do that though

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm not as sure about my Gamma read anymore. I'll revisit it tonight.

@Gamma, if you get the chance today, could you link me some of your scum games?

Still want this?

[Gamma Emerald]

When I signed up for this game I didn’t think there was going to be an insane amount of focus on winning Day 1. I actually thought we would just scum hunt normally and once we have decided on a lynch together, put the towniest people in a coalition and hope for the best. I don’t think having this belief or approach makes me scum.

This seems genuine. I guess it makes LUV look better but I don't feel like it's enough to just drop my concerns.

[Gamma Emerald]

As for Gamma, ISO’d a few of their scumgames and I didn’t see this kind of re-evaluation in any of them. His play has been extremely baffling to me but that did read sincere to me, so I honestly don’t know what to think about it.

Which games did you read? EP asked for scumgames so I want to know if there might be some dark horse picks.

[Gamma Emerald]

@Spangled: my 'case' on Alchemist was me trying to find how everything he was saying could be perceived as scummy. i did say specify that before i think and i'm not really convinced on him at all

Hectic, if I see this (below), what else am I supposed to think than that it’s a kind ‘relevatory scumread’?

- snipped case on Alch -
that's all, think i've convinced myself a little with that actually lol

Want to speak up on this, Spangled's like, summary of what happened last page made realize Hectic's actions were pretty bad. I agree it probably makes Hectic and Alchemist TvS, don't think scum would do that to a partner, but I haven't thought that over too much.

[Gamma Emerald]

Actually, I want a readslist from everyone, including would/would not include in coalition.

My thinking rn
Town, would include in coalition: myself, RCMA, Spangled, EP
Town, would not include in coalition: Hectic OR Alchemist, YAG
Null: NC 39
Scum: LUV, Hectic OR Alchemist
Fyi YAG is in the tier she is because I don't think anyone has discussed her as a coalition option and I'm trying to be mindful of the collective here.

[Gamma Emerald]

Do you mean Dunn's mini and Ircher's large? I don't remember any large by Dunn.

[Gamma Emerald]

As for my thought process with your post I agree I was misrepping them, because I let OMGUS color my view of your slot. After clearing my head a little I righted myself. Don't know if that answers your question but it's what I want to say rn.

[Gamma Emerald]

The only Ircher mini I remember being involved in is one I was backup mod for also

[Gamma Emerald]

As for my thought process with your post I agree I was misrepping them, because I let OMGUS color my view of your slot. After clearing my head a little I righted myself. Don't know if that answers your question but it's what I want to say rn.

Thinking on this idk if OMGUS is the right term but I got put onto a bad foot for reading NC 39 by how they interacted with me. One thing I'm perceiving is it seems after my epiphany Nancy is the one primarily engaging with me, don't believe Nero has talked at me once since then. Not a point for or against them, just interesting.

[Gamma Emerald]

not sure who to add last

maybe gamma

if you can't tell i'm officially lazyposting. sorry about that. wish rc were still here.

-nsg

Did RC officially leave or something

[Gamma Emerald]

What are you getting paranoid about?

[Gamma Emerald]

Did we decide the coalition yet

[Gamma Emerald]

Looks like the answer is no

[Gamma Emerald]

RC was scumreading nancy earlier in the game and didn't want to bring it up. now that he's mia and the day is nearly over it's probably not really important to keep that top secret anymore.

both of us i would say have really good handles on reading nancy. i haven't really put in any effort to read nancy this game, i put a not insignificant amount of weight into rc's read there and i would rather err on what i believe to be the side of caution.

-nsg

What is your opinion on Nancy? You say you both have a good handle on her but you don't seem to have a read yourself.

[Gamma Emerald]

Is there a reason we’re all ignoring lynching?

1) if we win by coalition no lynching needed
2) lynching before making a coalition nulls that part of the setup

[Gamma Emerald]

Did we decide the coalition yet

Looks like the answer is no

The currently proposed names are RC, NC 39, LUV, Espresso, and Gamma.

I think I'm okay with that? Dunno bout LUV but we are mega-short on time
How many people have that as theirs rn? I'll put it down unless it'll decide it then and there, because I want a little more time to discuss.

[Gamma Emerald]

VC 1.17 Mod note: The coalition of [ EspressoPatronum, Gamma Emerald, Lil Uzi Vert, NC 39, RC most awesomest ] has failed! Hectic (2): YOUAREGREAT, Spangled Lil Uzi Vert (2): Gamma Emerald, EspressoPatronum Spangled (1): RC most awesomest Alchemist21 (1): Hectic EspressoPatronum (1): Lil Uzi Vert Not Voting (2): Alchemist21, NC 39 With 9 players alive, it takes 5 to reach a majority. Day one ends in (expired on 2019-09-12 18:00:00).

Okay with my current vote.

[Gamma Emerald]

Ffs Hectic who could I be scum with at this point?

Yeah talk about this pls

[Gamma Emerald]

Hectic. Though I'm fine if you want to do vice versa

[Gamma Emerald]

that coalition contained two slots i hard vetoed being in the coalition, btw.

Nice of you to wake up RC

[Gamma Emerald]

Ffs Hectic who could I be scum with at this point?

anyone on the coalition that didn't want you on?

There’s absolutely nobody on the Coalition I could be scum with. I would not be agonizing over the decision to compromise on my own inclusion if I had my buddy in it that already guaranteed its failure. My only logical partner there would be Gamma, and that’s who I’m trying to lynch!

Aka I can't be scum because I'm bussing

[Gamma Emerald]

Whoops must have misclicked there.

How?

[Gamma Emerald]

As regards Gamma, 122 and 126 confuse me as a combination

126 was a misunderstanding, 127 is an expression of that

[Gamma Emerald]

I'd vote Alchemist

Why are you considering voting outside the coalition?

[Gamma Emerald]

I think limiting the lynch pool solely to those who were in the failed coalition is more likely to lead to a town loss.

We're not doing it the whole game, just starting there day 1.

[Gamma Emerald]

NC-LUV
- NC clearly didn't understand the purpose of voting within the coalition, so it's possible they would try to put both scum in the coalition + try convincing people to vote outside of it.

...

Unlikely Pairings:
(In progress, but it's pretty much all of the in-coalition pairs)

Huh?

[Gamma Emerald]

Curious to hear LUV's input on the deadline because he flipped his lid at the last one when the coalition was still in progress

[Gamma Emerald]

NC-LUV
- NC clearly didn't understand the purpose of voting within the coalition, so it's possible they would try to put both scum in the coalition + try convincing people to vote outside of it.

...

Unlikely Pairings:
(In progress, but it's pretty much all of the in-coalition pairs)

Huh?

What about this do you not understand? I'm happy to elaborate, but I need a more specific response first.

Pretty sure NC 39 and LUV were both in the coalition? Am I misunderstanding the second part?
(Btw random aside, I fucking hate my phone, it'll do a think where it'll lag and then repeat my last 2 or 3 keystrokes multiple times, and it just did it to where it filled the text window)

[Gamma Emerald]

NC-LUV
- NC clearly didn't understand the purpose of voting within the coalition, so it's possible they would try to put both scum in the coalition + try convincing people to vote outside of it.

...

Unlikely Pairings:
(In progress, but it's pretty much all of the in-coalition pairs)

Huh?

What about this do you not understand? I'm happy to elaborate, but I need a more specific response first.

@Gamma
Nvm, I think I see what you were getting at. Were you highlighting NC-LUV as being an in-coalition pair? If yes, that's the only in-coalition pairing I thought was likely. The others fall into Unlikely Pairings, hence the "pretty much all" but not "all" in-coalition pairings being unlikely.

Okay, just an exception, thanks.
@Hectic, I had you and Alchemist as either town or scum, not thinking you were both the same alignment, and also not having a lean on one being worse than the other, because I felt you both looked pretty bad. So I actually wanted neither of you in my coalition, which I explicitly wrote out so why did you misread it?

[Gamma Emerald]

hey Gamma, what's your response to Espresso?'s case on you?

I think his analysis is accurate but I think I haven't been very actively scummy si that should also be considered. I've kinda been wanting to kick into gear or something but I feel at this point I'm gonna need a kick outside of being pushed

[Gamma Emerald]

The parts about not expressing many stances and kinda going with the flow I feel are accurate.

[Gamma Emerald]

Not really, it's mostly just a mood thing, kinda been in a chill/lazy mood this game

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma's responses are really lazy but they feel genuine to me, like he's not overreacting or being really defensive, just taking the criticism as criticism of his town game

I just feel like in his cop game he was actually more active and proactive and less sheepy, which seems like the opposite to what you’d expect...
I’m very conflicted on how to read his general nonchalance, actually.

I don't think I've ever had a quiet cop game actually lol

[Gamma Emerald]

So, if we vote inside coalition today and if we don’t get a scumflip, why is this different after that?

My opinion on this is we should have a nightkill to work worth and possibly interpret so at that point maybe it will be clear scum are split between in and out

[Gamma Emerald]

I'd vote Alchemist

Why are you considering voting outside the coalition?

I think limiting the lynch pool solely to those who were in the failed coalition is more likely to lead to a town loss.

We're not doing it the whole game, just starting there day 1.

LUV was the first one to suggest, that limiting lynches to just inside coalition was antitown but no one so far, has explained why.

Espresso agreed but just not on D1. So, if we vote inside coalition today and if we don’t get a scumflip, why is this different after that? @Espresso, your take on that confuses me.

@NC that's Gamma's quote, not mine

I think limiting the lynch pool solely to those who were in the failed coalition is more likely to lead to a town loss.

I think you're right in the long term, but I see no reason why voting outside of it now is a good idea.

Looking at it Espresso does have a point, you kinda assigned my terms to Espresso's idea

[Gamma Emerald]

I did a quick skim of Alchemist's town SC game, town Overkill game, and the scum SC game and I honestly can't tell the difference between them.

If I had to pick something, he seemed a bit more proactive in the scum SC game compared to the others, but not by much.

Eh I'd try to meta Alchemist but I kinda recall blowing it last time I did it

[Gamma Emerald]

The question is lynch Alchemist versus no lynch

This is a shitty fucking dichotomy and you pushing it is absolutely awful. It's not 2016 anymore, people aren't going to kneel and stroke your ego just because you wave it in front of everyone in the thread. Realize this is a team game and saying it's my way or the highway is going against that. If you really think your idea is the best, actually try to convince people instead of shouting into space. Like you can talk about "read quality" but I've seen you be this sure and wrong before so I'm not convinced at all.

[Gamma Emerald]

I think it's exactly Gamma/alchemist but with the terrible play from EP and NC39 there's really no way of knowing and either of them could be the actual buddy. So, no point in making an uncertain Lynch on the coalition as opposed to lynching literally outed scum outside of it.

I'm really disgusted by all of you.

Why would you not push me? I was in the coalition and there has been support for my lynch? You're being exceptionally irrational here.

[Gamma Emerald]

It's not a question of confidence here, it's why don't you realize you catch more flies with honey than vinegar?

[Gamma Emerald]

How has everyone "been awful to you"? By not bowing to you and begging "oh great RC, please bestow upon us your power, for we are not worthy"? As far as I can tell you're on a massive ego trip. You say I'm discrediting you but honestly I feel like you're discrediting yourself. If Alchemist does flip town, you realize your credibility will be shot right? I have seen you kill games for town like this. My goal here is to keep that from happening.

[Gamma Emerald]

We proved that you guys as a collective don't have great reads when your coalition failed, shouldn't we rely on someone else now?

Btw
If you want to say this, don't lurk out the entire last parts of the coalition formation and then come in once it's up and push your lynch choice

[Gamma Emerald]

I consider lynching outside the coalition to be +town equity for reasons.

Mechanical reasons or...?

[Gamma Emerald]

I think that makes it 4 Alch 3 LUV?

[Gamma Emerald]

Hello
Anyone got any points they want my input on?

[Gamma Emerald]

RCMA was widely townread so that seems like a reason why
I feel like that might say something about where scum us but also possibly not, my head doesn't feel super clear rn

[Gamma Emerald]

Ok will try
Can't guarantee I won't feel the same or worse

[Gamma Emerald]

Ok I'm in a better headspace so I'll try to get a handle on what the NK means

[Gamma Emerald]

Thinking for a little bit my early sense is it means scum might be in some of the middling reads outside the coalition? I recall Hectic being rather SR, Spangled was back and forth, and YAG I think was on the table for some but not really strong as anything. I think YAG is a decent push, Spangled a little less. There's also a question of who they can be scum with. I'll probably lynch in the coalition today but I'll use this logic to decide whom.

[Gamma Emerald]

VLA For like 2 weeks, just got a concussion yesterday and need to do a brain break which includes reduced screentime

[Gamma Emerald]

VLA For like 2 weeks, just got a concussion yesterday and need to do a brain break which includes reduced screentime

I hope you’re alright. You should probably see a doctor. Concussions are very serious matters.

Have you had a doctor check you out? Your health of course, should always come before any game.

I went to the hospital last night, I have numerous injuries but the concussion is relevant to my VLA

[Gamma Emerald]

@Gamma, does Spangled feel like he did in CK9++?

Maybe a little different but probably explained by not being IC

[Gamma Emerald]

Why do you want to kill inside the coalition today as opposed to outside?

You disagree with that? Well because we know with 100% certainty that at least one scum in coalition, otherwise this game would be over. Do you have spicier reads outside the coalition that you think ought to be sorted first?

No, I think the play was always go inside the coalition to find scum. My reasoning is this:

If coalition fails, AT LEAST 1 scum inside
If coalition fails, MAYBE 1 scum outside

It is entirely possible that both scum are inside the coalition and given that is a possibility, it is always better to hunt inside the coalition. From any individual coalition-townie's perspective they have a 25% OR GREATER chance of hitting scum by going inside the coalition. I was very surprised to see that RCMA wanted to go outside the coalition. I was also very surprised that they died the first night, but they were universally townread it seems.

Just so we are clear - we are going to be hunting inside the coalition. I just wanted to explain why it is always the move if any of you play this game type moving forward.

Spoiler: health

I remember reading a study (dont know if it was peer reviewed) that dark screens emit less blue light and also cause less overall strain to the eye. Both of these things are good for the overall health of the eye.

Okay...
Why are you asking like that if it's your preference?

[Gamma Emerald]

Um hi
What's going on, kinda out of the loop

[Gamma Emerald]

Is there a catch to the tea?
What was LUV's towntell?

[Gamma Emerald]

Yeah Gamma not doing anything makes me confident in this vote

Sorry I've kinda been resting

Really

not a fan of what you're doing rn on a personal level

[Gamma Emerald]

I think I want to do this

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

Let’s do it.

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

Um hi
What's going on, kinda out of the loop

hmmmmmmmmmm, the timestamps here kinda suggest to me that Gamma is actively lurking
like he didn't post anything before but then posts a few minutes after the two votes on him?
sorry if it's any way related to your situation though

Well I was doing other stuff on site
But like it was other look like what you saw or actually lurk it out which I wasn't gonna do

[Gamma Emerald]

yeah, this game is hard
who was RCMA scumreading again other than Alchemist?

He scumread me with Alch lol

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: LUV
Kinda should have done this sooner but I feel like I've been rather transient this D2.
(Also am conscious about explaining another vote but it's more explaining personal condition)

[Gamma Emerald]

Uhhh I really don't know half of why I'm being voted so what do you want from me

[Gamma Emerald]

I feel like his early D1 was kinda slinking about and I also felt his approach to the coalition was a scum one. Don't really know much of what he's done recently. If gobs wants to come in and explain that read he's welcome to go ahead
If LUV is scum I kinda think gobs is a decent partner pick because rn I do kinda suss his lack of logic

[Gamma Emerald]

@Spangled, does Gamma feel like he did in CK9++?

@Gamma, does Spangled feel like he did in CK9++?

@EP, tl;dr me your scumread on LUV

@NC39, why did you guys kill outside of the coalition yesterday?

@everyone, what were RCMA's reads at the time of their death?

Will get to this later tonight.

Honestly this post feels very busybody-like, it doesn't escape me that it was targeted at the coalition members minus LUV. I think gobs-LUV is actually a valid scumteam here.

As for why LUV "isn't town", I feel like that's asking why I don't think there are reasons to townread him which I don't see any presented rn

[Gamma Emerald]

Yeah Gamma not doing anything makes me confident in this vote

Sorry I've kinda been resting

Really

not a fan of what you're doing rn on a personal level

I would characterize that you haven’t done anything all game, so this isn’t a comment on your play post accident. I know you need to rest if you have a concussion.

I feel like that doesn't represent my play fairly at all

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma, why did you over explain your coalition actions and then stop trying to do anything with the coalition?

I actually wanted to do more with the coalition I just kinda forgot. As for justifying myself like I did I was trying to explain what I felt might be perceived as rashness. The deadline at the time was extremely tight so I wanted to make my thinking present for those looking later.

[Gamma Emerald]

Nancy honestly I’m not scum here. Don’t you remember Mathblade’s flipless game?

I believe there’s scum in EP and Nancy. I don’t know how to articulate it then there pushes are bad and that I’m obvious town here based on my disengagement.

I don’t think scum make these posts.

Yeah I don't see these as towntells. The first post doesn't really do anything for me and the second I think is worth zip

[Gamma Emerald]

I've respond to all of those; don't gaslight me

[Gamma Emerald]

Town: Spangled, EP, NC 39
Nullish: Hectic
Scum: gobs, LUV
Reads off the cuff

As for what I think of "gob's whole entrance", you're gonna have cv to define that better.

[Gamma Emerald]

Probably Spangled, I think his efforts are some of the strongest this game

[Gamma Emerald]

Town: Spangled, EP, NC 39
Nullish: Hectic
Scum: gobs, LUV
Reads off the cuff

As for what I think of "gob's whole entrance", you're gonna have cv to define that better.

If you ISO him, his first six posts or something.

Rather unimpressive, I also don't like questioning an idea your down with the way gobs did
If LUV is lynched I honestly could see myself being the nightkill

[Gamma Emerald]

I didn't really factor in coalition to NK spec but to answer that will be the second town to flip in the coalition so I think killing outside the coalition would make sense to maintain suspect pool size

[Gamma Emerald]

I think town has a better chance with Gamma in it than LUV. We very well could be arguing over two town kills right now and if we are I would rather Gamma be left alive.

Who do you think scum are in this case?

[Gamma Emerald]

That was a very strange post to read
PEdit: OHHHHHKAY.

[Gamma Emerald]

aeiou

[Gamma Emerald]

aeiou

Thoughts on Gob’s read-switching on you and LUV?

I think he is acting like a chicken with its head cut off. I'm having trouble seeing the rhyme or reason to what he's doing. Like he makes that suggestion but he has no real alternative direction based on that. I feel like there is enough people present to CFD if desired.

[Gamma Emerald]

Chinese Fire Drill, it's a term for a wagon that forms very quickly. I am cognizant of the looming deadline rn. And like if people are up to vote gobs I can do that

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Gobbledegook

[Gamma Emerald]

Gob is at L-2 rn
I think LUV is at L-2 as well, I think there might be 1 vote on me

[Gamma Emerald]

Gobs my issue is you talk game about me+LUV being town but you don't act on it as I see it. You + me + Spangled + NC 39 is enough to get a lynch on Hectic or EP, why don't you seem interested in those? Didn't you FoS Ep earlier?

[Gamma Emerald]

Hi, kinda not in the headspace to play just now but be aware I'm gonna do my best when I get in the zone to solve this

[Gamma Emerald]

am i misinterpreting this? are you saying here you know you're not scum and you don't think it's Spangled? or is there a deeper meaning behind this?

What do you think the deeper meaning would be?

[Gamma Emerald]

I can't believe we won despite me vanishing
Sorry about that

[Gamma Emerald]

I can't believe we won despite me vanishing
Sorry about that

I was legit worried about you, ask Sky.

See I told my dad I felt like you'd be worried but he didn't believe me
Of course I failed to tell him I told you about my accident
Fyi the you I am using is partly the royal you

[Gamma Emerald]

Once my legs heal I can start going to the library again and there's nothing regarding using the library computers to post here that I can see a problem with