Mini Normal 1996: Floral Mafia [Endgame!]

[Hopkirk]

Hey gamma, can you summarise the game so far for me.

[Hopkirk]

As of page 7, I don't get the latest votecount.

[Hopkirk]

Why is it not d2 with Gamma having scumflipped already?

[Hopkirk]

UNVOTE: Cedrick

Up to page 16. Have reads of some kind on everyone.

[Hopkirk]

The top 3 individual scumreads as of this point are Gamma/Maria/Implosion.

[Hopkirk]

I don't get the concept of policy lynching D1 unless it's an open setup without a vig.

[Hopkirk]

I'll read the last 10 pages after I eat.

[Hopkirk]

What's really fun is hopkirk asking that question just to scumread me. Feels really fake.

I'm flattered that you think I could read the game in the ten minutes between me subbing in and asking that.

[Hopkirk]

Caught up.
Town
Creature
KTS
Katherine
Havo

Lean-town
Asuka
Cedrick

Neutral
Mumble

Scumpool
Luca
Tchill
MariaR
Implosion
Gamma

VOTE: Gamma

[Hopkirk]

What's really fun is hopkirk asking that question just to scumread me. Feels really fake.

I'm flattered that you think I could read the game in the ten minutes between me subbing in and asking that.

whatever. Why even are you scumreading who you are? Real nice to just come in, go "oops caught up already y'all are scum kthxbye"

What part of 'I've read half the game' made you think I was caught up.

[Hopkirk]

I won't be explaining anything tonight due to time, but I'm sure I'll be explaining my reads eventually.
It's too much to hope that people will agree with them automatically.

Who's scum for you right now?

[Hopkirk]

I finished rereading Gamma's iso and was about to post 'Gamma can be town'. Nice timing.

[Hopkirk]

My change in read is based off of also rereading in more detail a game we played together that finished yesterday where he was scum.

[Hopkirk]

Scum you seemed to be playing to the crowd. Here you seem more focused.
You also seem like you're reading/thinking more. I liked 451 for townie POV.

[Hopkirk]

What I didn't like in the first read through (pushing a lot of mislynchable players, and not having clear reads) also doesn't really match up.

pedit: only reread it tonight. Initial read through here wasn't thinking about any meta stuff.

[Hopkirk]

Katherine was quick to reread and I still like him.
-The initial wagon (katherine (5): MariaR, implosion, Tchill13, Luca Blight, Mumble) exclusively contains people I'm suspicious of. Especially given he's new, this makes me like Katherine somewhat.
-355 I like how widely he's engaging with people (I think he quotes 8 here), and It reads as pretty genuine, like he's legitimately interested in hearing from people.

[Hopkirk]

Asuka feels genuine/curious too.
@Asuka: Why Tchill town?

[Hopkirk]

Tchill's posts felt like a series of things I didn't really like, but somehow didn't give me a solid scumread. Probably a good slot to reread tomorrow.
I liked Havo's early game.
Anything specific you dislike about Kat, or is it just lack of stuff?

[Hopkirk]

UNVOTE: Gamma

[Hopkirk]

Tchill13 = Robbnva/Derpy Hooves/Jake from State Farm?

Tchill is Robbnva?

[Hopkirk]

Then I remember fairly recently playing with you.

[Hopkirk]

MariaR can be town actually.

[Hopkirk]

VOTE: Implosion

So why did this wagon die?

[Hopkirk]

Current scumpool is (Implosion/Luca/Cedrick/Mumble/Tchill). Can someone towncase one of them.

[Hopkirk]

It’s quite obvious you guys couldn’t recognize a rob alt if you were playing with one.

you can't either

Do you really want to go down that road?

Lets just worry about the game shall we?

Oh no. The town is too divided. We're never going to catch scum here. Ahhhh!

[Hopkirk]

I want to hear how Cedrick and Implosion read each other.

[Hopkirk]

Current scumpool is (Implosion/Luca/Cedrick/Mumble/Tchill). Can someone towncase one of them.

Idk why mumble is in your scum pool. It's clear why we haven't lynched him if you go back and look at the last few pages.

I don't get what you mean that you don't know why?
He's neutral for me. Given enough townreads, that puts him into a scumpool.

[Hopkirk]

That's not a lynchpool yet.
I haven't finished the iso based reread.
Debated between voting Implosion or Cedrick.

[Hopkirk]

Why do you townread Implosion?

[Hopkirk]

I want to find solid townreads first.
That's as significant to the game as forming scumreads.

Having subbed in, I'd prefer not to scumcase on anyone until I've had a chance to finish rereading, and to engage with them. Very preferably, regarding content that occured after I subbed in.

I should reread the interaction, but I don't see why scum-Cedric doesn't make 371. If you could explain a little more there that would be useful.
I can see Cedrick of any alignment getting frustrated post a warning.

[Hopkirk]

Like, scum can get irritated with playstyles of townies too. Nothing in 371 reads as town perspective over just annoyed perspective.

[Hopkirk]

Can either of you give me any good reasons why you aren't the rest of the scumteam?

[Hopkirk]

Like Tchill being mafia.

[Hopkirk]

Well good. riddance. Also thanks mafia. You kind of confirmed me as town. Time to re-evaluate

This really needs substantiation. You had him as null and he had you as town. You're off both wagons. You mention him once and don't talk to him while his read progression on you isn't good.

[Hopkirk]

There's a difference between why you aren't scum, and why you aren't part of a specific 3 person scumteam. The main difference is that the second one is much easier to answer.

[Hopkirk]

Well good. riddance. Also thanks mafia. You kind of confirmed me as town. Time to re-evaluate

This really needs substantiation. You had him as null and he had you as town. You're off both wagons. You mention him once and don't talk to him while his read progression on you isn't good.

no it's pretty obvious how it confirms me, if you can't see it you are [redacted] or scum. i am not going to waste my time explaining it when it's fucking obvious

How is this post productive. Do you not expect me to ask the question again. You're just wasting the time it took to wrote this post and the quotes post. Why do you think you're confirmed town.

[Hopkirk]

Literally nobody thought you/KTS were a scumteam.

[Hopkirk]

Wagon was dead before I started momentum back. Disagree I did nothing.

Asuka bears a reread.

Explain why the flip makes you town or I'm death tunneling.

[Hopkirk]

Tchill is still my first reread priority though.

[Hopkirk]

@Cedrick

You've sworn at me twice and implied an insult (based on what redacted means) because you don't feel like explaining a comment you made. That anti-town play, and a toxic approach to the game.

[Hopkirk]

I like Luca more than I did before the flip.

[Hopkirk]

Luca/Cedrick or not Luca are my thoughts to an extent.

[Hopkirk]

Cursing is fine. Cursing instead of discussion is objectively bad.

[Hopkirk]

Commuters are usually limited shot and need to active don't they?

Of course shooting a commuter over a tracker doesn't make sense.

[Hopkirk]

Strongman flip would help balance that

[Hopkirk]

Mumble is obv town here yeah. Treating the wagon on him as a wagon on town when looking at VCs.

Cursing is fine. Cursing instead of discussion is objectively bad.

So try and discuss something useful. You came in asking 2 terrible question.

VCa imo points to asuka probably being scum, at least deserving of some pressure.

You want to look at me/Luca when so others make more sense. Asuka/tchill for example.

That’s why I think you could be scum on the wagon. You didn’t do anything but vote park. You aren’t trying to analyze the useful stuff and instead want to look at non useful stuff.

Sure you are right me being off the wagon doesn’t clear me but it doesn’t mean I’m scum either. If you are town do better please and toughen up. This is a grown up game.

What part of asking a quick question means I'm focused on you/Luca? My top scumread right now is Tchill.
Why isn't it useful for me to form a read on you?

All I'm getting from your post is that you still don't feel like explining your thought process/reasoning. You said there was logic that made you town, then right afterwards you said there isn't anything you can say that shows/suggests you're town. That's a logical conflict, then you got very defensive over it and reluctant to explain yourself.

[Hopkirk]

VOTE: Tchill

[Hopkirk]

@Asuka: I can't see anything in your iso that makes you seem like an unlikely partner to both Tchill and Implosion. Thoughts?

[Hopkirk]

What part of asking a quick question means I'm focused on you/Luca?

Asking us to explain how we’re town implies scum reads and you want us to defend ourselves. Regardless of your alignment you should never ask stupid questions like that.

It doesn't imply scumreads. It implies not townreads.
Though I townread Luca now, but not you.

[Hopkirk]

What part of asking a quick question means I'm focused on you/Luca?

Asking us to explain how we’re town implies scum reads and you want us to defend ourselves. Regardless of your alignment you should never ask stupid questions like that.

It doesn't imply scumreads. It implies not townreads.
Though I townread Luca now, but not you.

And the question didn't need you to even explain why you were town (although you'd already said you had stuff you could use there, so it's odd to attack me on those grounds). Just needed you to give me reasons to think the other was town, or other people were scum.

[Hopkirk]

How haven't you mentioned, quoted, or quoted a mention of Asuka until today Cedrick?

[Hopkirk]

Hopkirk did your question to ausuka come with cedricks VCA in mind?

No. Isoing interactions between possible scum (each other and implosion)

[Hopkirk]

Can either of you give me any good reasons why you aren't the rest of the scumteam?

This was your question actually. This basically is you wanting to show why we aren’t scum which implies you think we both are. Gtfoh trying to imply it means anything else. I don’t care who you tr or don’t tr but don’t try and backpedal now.

You thought we were both scum.

You infered that. There's a difference.
The main one being how much weight you assumed the line carried.

[Hopkirk]

How haven't you mentioned, quoted, or quoted a mention of Asuka until today Cedrick?

Cause I was scum reading other people. Why do you keep asking useless questions?

Why do you think?

[Hopkirk]

This is why I was concerned about Luca/Cedrick. Probably wouldn't go for it today though.

implosion (5): Hopkirk, Creature, Gamma Emerald, Havo, Tchill13
Mumble (3): implosion, Cedrick, Luca Blight
Luca Blight (5): Ausuka, MariaR, Killthestory, katherine, Mumble

[Hopkirk]

Can either of you give me any good reasons why you aren't the rest of the scumteam?

This was your question actually. This basically is you wanting to show why we aren’t scum which implies you think we both are. Gtfoh trying to imply it means anything else. I don’t care who you tr or don’t tr but don’t try and backpedal now.

You thought we were both scum.

You infered that. There's a difference.
The main one being how much weight you assumed the line carried.

I inferred that because most people wouldn’t ask that question to people you aren’t scum reading. If you weren’t scum reading us there was no point to ask it.

You aren't very good at understanding nuance.
Or thinking about people playing or thinking differently to yourself.

[Hopkirk]

How haven't you mentioned, quoted, or quoted a mention of Asuka until today Cedrick?

Cause I was scum reading other people. Why do you keep asking useless questions?

Why do you think?

Scum fake scum hunting most likely

Not mentioning someone whatsoever in 40 pages suggests you aren't interested in interacting with everyone in the game.
Do you usually not interact with neutral or town reads? Or even express those reads? I see other stated reads that aren't scumreads.

[Hopkirk]

Not mentioning someone whatsoever in 40 pages suggests you aren't interested in interacting with everyone in the game.
Do you usually not interact with neutral or town reads? Or even express those reads? I see other stated reads that aren't scumreads.

again you are asking pointless questions.

You do realize people actually need to read you? That requires interaction. If you respond to every question with fuck off then it's kind of difficult to interact with you. It also makes you seem unpleasant.

[Hopkirk]

You're not an innocent child Cedrick. Stop acting like it.

[Hopkirk]

Unlimited shot commuter is concerning based on what Cedrick linked.

[Hopkirk]

You do realize people actually need to read you? That requires interaction. If you respond to every question with fuck off then it's kind of difficult to interact with you. It also makes you seem unpleasant.

those questions you just asked don't help people read me though, which is why they are pointless. pretty much none of the questions you asked will help read me or even determine my alignment.

Do you seriously not understand the concept that different players approach the game, and form reads, differently.
I like to interact with people to read them. You're scum, or an unpleasant townie to play with.

[Hopkirk]

Well good. riddance. Also thanks mafia. You kind of confirmed me as town. Time to re-evaluate

@hopkirk once he posts something like this. Something that makes him think he's conftown or cleared then he will not play with people having to read him in mind because in his head he should be cleared.

At least I'm pretty sure that's what is going on here.

Are you townreading him based on that?
The problem I'm having is that I've seen memorable examples of scum thinking their role pm justified being unpleasant. I should look at meta on Cedrick's tone.

[Hopkirk]

@Luca: The votecount link/quote

Spoiler:

VC 1.18

votes

implosion

(5): Hopkirk, Creature, Gamma Emerald, Havo, Tchill13

Mumble

(3): implosion, Cedrick, Luca Blight

Luca Blight

(5): Ausuka, MariaR, Killthestory, katherine, Mumble

Not Voting

(0):

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch

The day 1 deadline is in

: (expired on 2018-03-22 19:42:59)

Mod Notes

: Cedrick is V/LA until Monday.
Luca Blight is V/LA until Wednesday

[Hopkirk]

You do realize people actually need to read you? That requires interaction. If you respond to every question with fuck off then it's kind of difficult to interact with you. It also makes you seem unpleasant.

those questions you just asked don't help people read me though, which is why they are pointless. pretty much none of the questions you asked will help read me or even determine my alignment.

Do you seriously not understand the concept that different players approach the game, and form reads, differently.
I like to interact with people to read them. You're scum, or an unpleasant townie to play with.

you are asking me questions that nobody can verify, they rely on me using self meta to answer. why would I answer them when meta is useless to begin with and my meta answers aren't going to convince anyone, they shouldn't even convince you.

I answered the only important question you asked, why I didn't mention Ausuka. I don't see how any of those other questions will help you determine my alignment. I could lie to you and you wouldn't know. To ask questions that rely on meta, you have to know my meta and nobody does hence the point of a secret alt.

I don't really care if anyone scum reads me, or even if i get lynched but if people sat and thought about it they would know why there is no way I could be scum who killed kts or allowed my partner to kill kts especially after we just lost 1 member.

I've asked you one question that's meta based (and even that was half asking about why your interacting with A is different to other interactions this game). The main one I've been asking you isn't meta based.
If you think you can lie convincingly about x enough to convince people, why is your locktown evidence not something you could fake.

[Hopkirk]

@Luca: The votecount link/quote

Spoiler:

VC 1.18

votes

implosion

(5): Hopkirk, Creature, Gamma Emerald, Havo, Tchill13

Mumble

(3): implosion, Cedrick, Luca Blight

Luca Blight

(5): Ausuka, MariaR, Killthestory, katherine, Mumble

Not Voting

(0):

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch

The day 1 deadline is in

: (expired on 2018-03-22 19:42:59)

Mod Notes

: Cedrick is V/LA until Monday.
Luca Blight is V/LA until Wednesday

Ah yes, so it completely ignores this:

Consider my vote on implosion - I don't want to put him on L-1 in case of derp hammer.

Something that makes him think he's conftown or cleared then he will not play with people having to read him in mind because in his head he should be cleared.

yes I think I should be cleared, I also think that it should be obvious to everyone else. My issue is hopkirk came in scum reading me and luca and now tries to imply he didn't. Then he asks me a bunch of questions that aren't useful in determining my alignment.

He is one of the people on the wagon I am suspicious of and he comes in to the game fake scum hunting so that just strengthens my suspicions of him.

If people want me to answer relevant game related questions, i'll answer them but I am not answering questions about my meta which can't even be verified.

Trying to find town in a scumpool =/= scumreading.
I've asked you plently of game related questions that you don't feel like responding to. The meta angle is a strawman you're pretending matters.

[Hopkirk]

Pedit: meant to say the context Luca gave is signficant/makes it less likely.

[Hopkirk]

Tchill is on my list also. I just feel asuka is scummier and looking at how they mentioned each other especially asuka caking mumble stupid or whatever for voting implosion, I like asuka for scum better.

After looking at your vca I believe your ausuka tchill scum reads are associations are they not?

Implosion and ausuka are the only wagons I weren't on. So let's say I or ausuka flip town. Does that automatically clear the other in your opinion?

I can’t really answer that. I need an actual flip. I’ll need to see who was on and off the wagon, I’ll need to see who dies. Lots of things factor in to me reevaluating

If TChill flips scum I'm gonna go out on a limb here and call Ausuka town

VOTE: Tchill

I don't trust his motives here - he doesn't believe I'm scum, but wants me lynched for information's sake.

Basically it's just getting rid of a nuisance - someone scum won't be able to get rid of themselves. The info gained would have to be taken with a pinch of salt just like the info we have now; me being killed confirms no-one.

You flipping town confirms 6 people. You flipping scum is Katherines death sentence.

I agree with Gamma, especially with this in mind. Would suggest one on each wagon if Tchill was scum maybe.

[Hopkirk]

Well good. riddance. Also thanks mafia. You kind of confirmed me as town. Time to re-evaluate

Lets start with this.

This really needs substantiation. You had him as null and he had you as town. You're off both wagons. You mention him once and don't talk to him while his read progression on you isn't good.

A post that's effectively a synonym for 'why?'

[Hopkirk]

Lets start with this was meant to be above the post, not in it. The post where you said you'd answer questions vanished, I assume since I went to iso and it doesn't carry over.

Well good. riddance. Also thanks mafia. You kind of confirmed me as town. Time to re-evaluate

Lets start with this.

This really needs substantiation. You had him as null and he had you as town. You're off both wagons. You mention him once and don't talk to him while his read progression on you isn't good.

A post that's effectively a synonym for 'why?'

[Hopkirk]

Like if we all just pretend that bussing doesn't exist and nobody would bus a buddy (especially one who didn't seem that into the game) we're probably going to end up off-track.

Immediate resistance to my idea already. I'm not saying it doesn't exist. I'm saying there's no need for it in that particular situation on a claimed PR that close to lynch.

Killing an unkillable pr is a really bad mislynch.

@Maria: Why isn't Luca/Hopkirk locktown. Why is Tchill.

[Hopkirk]

Luca, if you're really a limited shot commuter I feel like just claiming that would be worthwhile.

[Hopkirk]

Lots of people from this game are here too: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=75047&start=1725
Thoughts on Cedrick's tone compared to this game? Equally agressive/condescending or not?

[Hopkirk]

Like if we all just pretend that bussing doesn't exist and nobody would bus a buddy (especially one who didn't seem that into the game) we're probably going to end up off-track.

Immediate resistance to my idea already. I'm not saying it doesn't exist. I'm saying there's no need for it in that particular situation on a claimed PR that close to lynch.

Killing an unkillable pr is a really bad mislynch.

@Maria: Why isn't Luca/Hopkirk locktown. Why is Tchill.

Why do you think Luca/Hop should be lock town? I haven't seen anything that should make me tr those players
Tchills play reminds me of the game I linked before and I don't think he has strong scum motivation

Self-bias for Hopkirk.
Wondering whether you buy the claim from Luca.

[Hopkirk]

Lets start with this was meant to be above the post, not in it. The post where you said you'd answer questions vanished, I assume since I went to iso and it doesn't carry over.

Well good. riddance. Also thanks mafia. You kind of confirmed me as town. Time to re-evaluate

Lets start with this.

This really needs substantiation. You had him as null and he had you as town. You're off both wagons. You mention him once and don't talk to him while his read progression on you isn't good.

A post that's effectively a synonym for 'why?'

I am not going to answer this one because it should be pretty obvious. If it isn't, you aren't going to believe my explanation anyway.

If you're just going to say 'it should be pretty obvious' then you give the impression that you're afraid how people will percieve it, and just want people to try and work it out/assume the best instead.

Clearly your offer to answer qs wasn't in good faith.

Why aren't you asking me anything/care about my thought process?

[Hopkirk]

Lots of people from this game are here too: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=75047&start=1725
Thoughts on Cedrick's tone compared to this game? Equally agressive/condescending or not?

VOTE: hopkirk

you aren't scum hunting

Sure I am.
I don't see you doing anything really proactive.

[Hopkirk]

If you're just going to say 'it should be pretty obvious' then you give the impression that you're afraid how people will percieve it, and just want people to try and work it out/assume the best instead.

Clearly your offer to answer qs wasn't in good faith.

Why aren't you asking me anything/care about my thought process?

I don't care how people perceive it. I'd rather not waste time dealing people with saying my reasons aren't valid due to wifom because duh, everything can be argued as not valid due to wifom.

my question about GAME RELEVANT questions still stands. That question is my opinion and one I feel like everyone else should have.

I am not asking you any questions, cause you are doing an awesome job of making yourself look like scum. I don't need to ask you anything. It is clear you are fake scum hunting not actual scum hunting.

Right. Keep on omgusing.

[Hopkirk]

It's either balanced, or made by scum with balance in mind.
I agree 'It's OP' doesn't mean it's fake.

[Hopkirk]

Sure I am.
I don't see you doing anything really proactive.

No you aren’t. You are fake scum hunting. You haven’t asked a single useful question. A single question that helps anyone determine my alignment. You then go and link another game like that game matters to this one.

You came in to the day trying to smear my name and your agenda has been to continue doing it.

If you refuse to engage with me in a cooperative manner, I can't engage with you.

[Hopkirk]

you talk to hopkirk like he is town. why?

You should engage people as if they're town.

I feel very confident in my hopkirk TR. He sorted a ton day 1. He's asking people the motivations behind their reads. His progressions make sense. Great example of being able to show themselves as town through effort.

he had 30 posts day 1 and I don't see much sorting. He didn't even really try to sort implosion. He vote parked on implosion and did nothing to make a lynch happen. If there is scum on the wagon, he could be it. he isn't really trying to sort anyone today either, he's asking me questions that don't help sort me, they are questions that just look like he's trying to appear busy.

You know I subbed in a couple of days before deadline and have a job, right?
I found scum d1 and helped restart a dead wagon. I didn't need to make a case since people swung back around. That doesn't mean I had 0 reasoning.

[Hopkirk]

You should engage people as if they're town.

Not if you scum read them.

You still should.

I found scum d1

Yes. You found scum yet never gave a single reason why he was scum. You also made a couple of posts that imply you weren’t even that sure. You called him scum and voted gamma. You were voting him but said you would vote me.

Sorry. You did nothing to find implosion. You did nothing to help a wagon happen, you didn’t even seem committed to it.

You get no town credit from me since you did nothing but vote Park which could easily be scum who didn’t realize a wagon was going to actually happen.

I voted Gamma then unvoted him on a reread- unpormpted.
I didn't need to give reasons for it since it started up again without needing to.
I didn't leave/stop supporting it as it built up.
I did stuff to find Implosion. Not posting it in the thread while time limited doesn't diminish my effort.

I'm going to take a break and come back in a better headspace/not needing to interact with Cedrick.

[Hopkirk]

Me the next day: Ugh, scum Cedrick really should have voted Luca shouldn't he.

[Hopkirk]

I don't like how Implosion doesn't push Katherine. Might be scum interacting with a new partner.

[Hopkirk]

@Tchill: I might have missed this, but could you give (or link to if I missed them) your thoughts on MariaR?

[Hopkirk]

@Cedrick btw: you did mention ausuka a few times actually, just spelling it differently.

MariaR/Ausuka scumteam doesn't seem even slightly likely.

[Hopkirk]

So MariaR having Tchill/Katherine locktown is concerning.
Yesterday her scumpool was:(Cedrick, Ausuka, Hopkirk, Havo, Luca Blight). It seems less likely her partner would be in there based on the way wagons were competing.

[Hopkirk]

VOTE: MariaR
Lets try this as well.

[Hopkirk]

Katherine/Tchill is also a probable no. Scum pushing a new parter a lot d1 would be questionable.

Tchill/MariaR?

MariaR/Kat?
Ausuku/Kat?
Ausuku/Tchill? (bit less likely?)

[Hopkirk]

MariaR wanting KTS makes sense.

[Hopkirk]

MariaR wanting KTS makes sense.

please explain this when you can.

That should say 'MariaR killing...'

[Hopkirk]

He had you as a townread, but not a hard one. He acknowledged you could be a wolf. He had you as scum then flipped to a townread (based on conditions at that point). That could easily have switched back after the Implosion flip. I'm concerned that's the case.

[Hopkirk]

Will have more time over tomorrow/weekend.

Katherine's prod must be coming up.

[Hopkirk]

Does anyone in (Hop/Gamma/Creature/Luca/Havo/Mumble) not townread anyone in that group?

[Hopkirk]

North is looking for a replacement.

[Hopkirk]

@Gamma: any thoughts on who Tchill probably isn't partners with? I thought about this earlier and it made me switch to MariaR. Want to know if you agree.

[Hopkirk]

Right now I'm thinking MariaR with either Tchill or Katherine.

[Hopkirk]

I feel like what's 'killing' the game is that people have very similar scumpools, but don't want to commit to a lynch until Katherine's slot posts.

[Hopkirk]

@Kookoo: Your links are broken. I tried a few variations- removing parts. Just leads to errors. What should I change to make them work.

[Hopkirk]

luca wagon is super pure and super ok.

vig shoot implosion

wait nvm read the game maria linked. he's scum here LOL.

i've nailed like 2 wolves already, but there might be a wolf eluding me. depends on tchill's flip.

deepwolf: maria or gamma (this depends on flips), implosion, mumble, tchill wolves.

ausoka, katherine gotta be sorted.

i think that's sorta gamesolving, but a wolf might be eluding me.

3 wolves. maria or gamma probably a deepwolf. implosion, ausoka, mumble carries like 2 out of three wolves.

lock v is prob gonna be creature and cedrick.

Just posting this for reference while I look at start of day again.

[Hopkirk]

Not sure how useful VCA is right now. The implo wagon was really quick and the lack of resistance to it leads me to believe that scum were probably bussing implo. I don't see how my d1 voting makes me scum here.
That said my d1 reads were probably still disastarous and I'm just going to refresh them at this point.

This is really bad
Could explain a KTS kill too. If KTS brought Mumble's claim, he'd be going for Ausuka.

[Hopkirk]

VOTE: katherine

Ausuka is my 2nd biggest SR. Gamma is a scum lean.

Maria, KTS and Cedrick town. Luca is a town lean.

Rest is null.

Ausuku/Tchill?

VOTE: Ausuka

[Hopkirk]

Fits votecounts well.
Fits kill well (Tchill bringing up the point about KTS being possible vig could be because discussed as mafia, Tchill was concerned about how KTS viewed him, KTS was likely going for Ausuka today).

[Hopkirk]

Just noticed that North manages to get her votecounts consistently at the 50 post mark.

200: A on MariaR, I on Katherine, T on Mumble
250/300/350- I+T on Katherine, A on nobody
400- T on I, A on Mumble, I on KTS. Need to look why Katherine went from 5 votes to 1.
525- A+T on Mumble, I on KTS
575- A+T+I on Mumble
625, same to 875- A on Luca, T+I on Mumble (why no counterwagon forming to 3 votes on Ausuka?)
925- T on Creature, I on Mumble, A on Luca
1000- I+T on Mumble, A on Luca
1050- Same. Implosion wagon is now me + Luca + Mumble.
1100- T on I, I on Mumble, A on Luca
1117- A+T+I on L
1825- A+T on MariaR

Spread out. Minimal bussing. Pushes mislynchable players. Consistently on top wagons (only on Luca or Mumble for long). Off wagon at end. Makes sense ish.

[Hopkirk]

Hopkirk are you actually basing your view of KTS's reads from page 11?

What do you think his reads were?

[Hopkirk]

Not sure how useful VCA is right now. The implo wagon was really quick and the lack of resistance to it leads me to believe that scum were probably bussing implo. I don't see how my d1 voting makes me scum here.
That said my d1 reads were probably still disastarous and I'm just going to refresh them at this point.

This is really bad
Could explain a KTS kill too. If KTS brought Mumble's claim, he'd be going for Ausuka.

How was it really bad though. There's nothing wrong with it.

Waiting to see where things lie is classicy kind of scummy. Post is that + discrediting things that would point to you as scum when considered.
Feels kind of deliberate.
The certaintly in the first points (that could make you suspicious) conflicts to an extent with the uncertain tone of the last sentence.

[Hopkirk]

Town read Mumble and you, scumread Luca probably.

I was assuming that, unless stated to have changed, his reads hadn't changed.

[Hopkirk]

Not sure how useful VCA is right now. The implo wagon was really quick and the lack of resistance to it leads me to believe that scum were probably bussing implo. I don't see how my d1 voting makes me scum here.
That said my d1 reads were probably still disastarous and I'm just going to refresh them at this point.

This is really bad
Could explain a KTS kill too. If KTS brought Mumble's claim, he'd be going for Ausuka.

How was it really bad though. There's nothing wrong with it.

Waiting to see where things lie is classicy kind of scummy. Post is that + discrediting things that would point to you as scum when considered.
Feels kind of deliberate.
The certaintly in the first points (that could make you suspicious) conflicts to an extent with the uncertain tone of the last sentence.

I got reads within 27 minutes. I was hardly waiting to see where things lie. Anyway, town not having reads at the start of the day after a scumflip is perfectly normal.
And as I said, the logic was fine. There was no reason Implo couldn't have been a bus. I don't think it is now because I SR Maria/katherine but there's no reason to suspect me for that. And saying the Luca wagon had scum shouldn't really direct to me anyway; I was the first one voting Luca, but everyone says "wow Ausuka was voting Luca, she must be scum!" even though I could have easily attacked {maria, katherine, tchill} slots just because they jumped on the wagon.
The last point doesn't even make sense on any level. Not only did I say scum were

probably

bussing, which is definitely not certain, me having an opinion on the implo wagon doesn't have anything to do with "my d1 reads were bad"

After checking timestamps, this is true and most of my post is irrelevant.

[Hopkirk]

@Kookoo: Given you read with the knowledge Implosion is town, why didn't you (or did you) know KTS was dead town?

[Hopkirk]

How does a tracker interact with a commuter?

[Hopkirk]

Oh a strongman can't kill a commuter either.

[Hopkirk]

VOTE: Tchill

[Hopkirk]

Maria/FL play just makes a lot more sense than Tchill play as scum IMO. Maria's read on Kath slot still feels like S/S and I still don't get why Scum!Tchill is literally scumreading anyone who starts townreading him. Why is that scum play?

He has to townread/scumread someone. Scum-Tchill (applies to others too) can't afford too townread too many people who are alternative viable lynches.
If he townreads people in the potential lynch pool then 1.) it's harder for him to lynch them later, 2.) he loses flexibility, 3.) depending on who his partners are, it might force him to scumread them or at least increase the likelihood of them being lynched, 4.) he's more likely to get lynched- especially if he tries to push generally townread people who aren't viable lynches.
This doesn't just apply to Tchill, but more generally.

[Hopkirk]

Luca, Katherine, Maria, ausuka

Luca is a slight SR but what his flip confirms is pretty valuable.

Katherine is my biggest outright SR because of the wagon he was on and low content.

Maria pretty much the same.

Ausuka only because of his position on the wagon. I feel that cedrick is town and I'm glad to see ausuka stated that also.

practically lock Town: Mumble, Hopkirk, Gamma, Havo

Null: Luca, Katherine

Scum lean: Cedrick, Creature, MariaR, Katherine (mostly due to PoE)

(i have to read ausuka's iso more seeing how i haven't seen many of their post)

Hard TR: Havo, Gamma, Hopkirk

Almost hard TR: Cedrick, Luca

Null: Katherine, mumble ( could very well still be scum)

Scum lean: Ausuka, Maria

+voting Ausuka/MariaR.
Scumreads the scumpool + others on occasion. Brings up Luca/Creature which, if scum, is testing the waters on other lynches outside the pool. Initially focused on Katherine then leaves that when she isn't a wagon.

Initially brings up Luca (scum would want a Luca lynch if Luca is legit). If scum, this was to test the waters. Flips from hard scumread on Katherine to lesser one/null despite her being active. Suggests focus on survival given flexibility here (leaving Katherine vote for MariaR/Ausuka). Could definitely see a hard bus here if both scum are in Tchill/MariaR/Ausuka since otherwise they wouldn't really have a chance of surviving long-term.

Not saying this can't come from town, but it's what scum almost has to do in Tchill's position.

Don't see Katherine/Tchill.

MariaR/Cedrick/Ausuka possible partners if i remember right. In that order based on what I remember reading.

[Hopkirk]

Well sure, he doesn't want to hand out townreads in the lynchpool, but he can push anyone for any reason. Me, Maria, Katherine all have a lot of reasons for someone to go after us. Why does he choose to scumread us for townreading him in particular? That definitely would scare people off for basically no gain. Also, his insistence scum didn't bus makes this game a lot harder for him especially if his partner is in {Maria, Ausuka, FL} because after he gets three of us lynched (and kills three of us too, which COULD not happen) that's 3v2 at best. And that's IF he is the last lynch in the lynchpool and the scumpartner isn't a suspected player either.

Idk I feel like it's just Maria/FL here.

In regard to his insistance scum didn't bus: If the people who voted Implosion don't think scum bussed, it doesn't really matter what Tchill says about it. Not accepting that, if it is accepted, makes Tchill a much more likely lynch.
On the same note, he didn't start the day hard townreads on everyone who voted Implosion. Eg, bringing up Luca as a potential lynch quite hard at the start of the day.

[Hopkirk]

Katherine is a light townread for me. Hard if Tchill flips scum.

[Hopkirk]

Maria/FL play just makes a lot more sense than Tchill play as scum IMO. Maria's read on Kath slot still feels like S/S and I still don't get why Scum!Tchill is literally scumreading anyone who starts townreading him. Why is that scum play?

He has to townread/scumread someone. Scum-Tchill (applies to others too) can't afford too townread too many people who are alternative viable lynches.
If he townreads people in the potential lynch pool then 1.) it's harder for him to lynch them later, 2.) he loses flexibility, 3.) depending on who his partners are, it might force him to scumread them or at least increase the likelihood of them being lynched, 4.) he's more likely to get lynched- especially if he tries to push generally townread people who aren't viable lynches.
This doesn't just apply to Tchill, but more generally.

No. I scum read them because it's stupid to TR me at this point. It's that simple.

So hopkirk doesn't realize that I'm not playing with longevity in mind at all.

I knew I was gonna be the day 2 lynched. I was doomed when I hopped off implosion at L-1.

My best bet if scum didn't bus is Maria and Katherine.

Worth noting that hopkirk clearly intended to vote me.the whole day phase but didn't lay one down on me that's threatening till now.

So everything I said on the last page is based on what scum-Tchill would be thinking/doing. Town can play the same way- I said that. But saying you did x because you're town isn't relevant to what scum you would do.
Ausuka was asking why scum-you would play in the way you are. I described the incentives.

On the other point, yes, you were me top scumread going into today. I Switched off of you because I wanted to get more out of the day. Associations mainly- be you scum or town.

[Hopkirk]

@Tchill: Can you lay out your thoughts on Katherine('s slot). Preferably both scum/town views since you seem uncertain on him.
Any thoughts on Luca potential or unlikely partners too?

If you're lynched and flip town, they will be likely scum day 3.

[Hopkirk]

UNVOTE: Tchill

Don't want a hammer until I've looked at Luca associations.

[Hopkirk]

@Tchill: you had him at null at a point recently.

Looking at Luca/Cedrick, Luca/Ausuka, Luca/Katherine. Don't really see Luca/Tchill or Luca/MariaR and Creature/Mumble/Havo/GE are locktown.

[Hopkirk]

Cedrick/Luca is still really concerning.

[Hopkirk]

Cedrick got crazily defensive when I suggested Luca/him. Luca didn't comment.

[Hopkirk]

I've thrown out about... 4 or 5 different outcomes because I simply don't know what's going on. My day 1 play is geared towards a mislynch day 1. So of course when we actually lynch then I'm in uncommon territory.

If scum didn't bus. Maria/katherine (maybe ausuka but I doubt it.)

If scum did bus then it's Luca/???

Only issue I have is lynching me doesn't lead to anything. If I flip town then what? Because I can assure you I won't flip scum which means that town flip needs to lead to something decent.

Your bussing team is stupid. Why would they flip to their strongman over whatever Luca is?

Luca switched to voting Implosion on L1. If it's bussing, it's last second bussing to avoid autolosing on the lynch on Implosion.

If anyone else switched (lets say Tchill which is plausible for scum there), then this votecount really doesn't make them look good.

implosion (7): Hopkirk, Creature, Gamma Emerald, Havo, Mumble, Killthestory, Tchill
Mumble (2): Cedrick, Luca Blight
Luca Blight (5): Ausuka, MariaR, katherine, Tchill13, implosion
(Implosion switched to Luca 10 minutes before Luca hammered (signal/consent to bus?) as well. If Tchill hammered before that then it'd be Cedrick/Luca/Implosion on Mumble.)

You'd also bus Implosion over Luca because Luca's claimed commuter which has implications for how valuable he is to the scumteam there, and because Implosion didn't have the opportunity to hammer Luca, but Luca had the opportunity to hammer Implosion.

[Hopkirk]

If people buy Luca's claim/bus, he makes it to lylo/endgame without having to explain why he hasn't been killed. There's no threat to him. If people completely buy his claim then scum autowin.
Luca's play today is a lot lazier/conservative than his role should suggest.

[Hopkirk]

Implosion's vote on Luca wouldn't fit his read progression too well either.

[Hopkirk]

@Tchill: I can see you as town. Luca/Cedrick is a serious concern for me.

Despite so many posts saying Luca is town, Cedrick never actually says why. Examples:
1141- Puts Luca as town (based on the vote?) without reason. Says he doesn't think my vote makes me look town. Should explain why Luca's was better when it was a hammer when Luca was the opposing wagon. Never considers scum-Luca in thread.
1158/1248- Gets ridiculously aggressive when I suggest Luca/Cedrick.
1348- 'Most people will think Luca is town' - why?

KTS kill makes sense with Luca scum if I remember right.

Come to think of it, after claiming, Luca's role isn't any more useful than a VT if there's not solid reason to hard townread him.

[Hopkirk]

Given I have 4 locktown, I can't see any actual benefit to keeping Luca alive due to the claim.

[Hopkirk]

luca feels like a powerwolf, but it depends on what havo flips. i think i only lynch one of havo or luca.

luca wagon is super pure and super ok.

LOL.

glad i didn't hammer you senior mumble. you want to take out luca now?

Yeah, I could see Luca wanting this dead. Makes more sense than Tchill killing KTS too.
I feel like KTS would go into the day promoting the townblock (Hopkirk/GE/KTS/Creature/Havo/Mumble), but still wanting Luca lynched.

[Hopkirk]

Previous VC is useful too. Luca/Implosion also left the Mumble wagon to vote each other.

[Hopkirk]

Implo

[Hopkirk]

Uh ok.

@Kookoo: Given you read with the knowledge Implosion is town, why didn't you (or did you) know KTS was dead town?

[Hopkirk]

VOTE: Luca

[Hopkirk]

Are you willing to vote Luca here Kookoo?

[Hopkirk]

Looking through your post and it definitely looks like it was written pre-sub in.

[Hopkirk]

That's L1. I think this quote applies:

luca wagon is super pure and super ok.

[Hopkirk]

Phoneposting.

MariaR kill makes me happier with my scumpool. The only good reason to kill MariaR is because it helps change the narrative. If both scum bussed, changing the narrative would be heavily counter productive. Scum only needs to change narrative if current game trajectory hurts them. Discussion is changing course ATM, and directly in reference to the kill, so might be indicative of it working.

Hence, kill makes me a bit more confident in current reads, or at worst is dismissals as wifom. Btoh likely occur with scared/badly positioned scum since playing it put under prior conditions likely resolves badly.

Will reread more before voting. Will be trying to play as marathon games as possible over the weekend, so should be on site a bit.

Cedrick slot is townread now.

[Hopkirk]

Luca got lynched because he self hammered.
Nobody could hammer without looking bad there. Wagon wouldn't have necessarily lead to a hammer. It was the second l1 of the day.

[Hopkirk]

@Luca for future reference: I almost always sleep between the hours of 11pm and 7am GMT. I cannot unvote during those times under any circumstances. If you waited for me to wake up before self-hammering, I actually could have read the thirty odd posts you made and hopefully spoken to you directly.

Properly read until end of I think 86. Stopping for rougly 20 mins then reading more.

Hmm. The Maria NK is very, very sketchy.

What’s sketchy about it?

The fact that she was a good ML candidate for today and scum killed her anyway?

They only narrowed my pool down for me.

It went from Maria, Kath/Kook, Ausuka to

Ausuka, Kook

Kook replaced Cedrick not Katherine.

[Hopkirk]

I mean I guess it could also be a Tchill/FL ploy to get attention onto the implo wagon but that seems a lot less likely than you just being scum.

I mean Ausuka/Tchill never kills Maria. Like seriously that's like the one mislynch we could have feasibly pulled off today.

I want to hear your response to my point on narrative change. Why unlikely/not good? You were both likely lynches if nothing changed.

@Flavour: have you caught up.

Ausuka and Tchill is still my best bet for the team.

pretty much agreed here

Currently same.

[Hopkirk]

I think scum is in flavor or gamma?

why not Ausuka?

[Hopkirk]

Can you go over the alternatives/explain them.

[Hopkirk]

Have you caught up fully?

[Hopkirk]

Yeah, hopkirk, what’s up. Talk to me.

Can you explain your Creature townread.

[Hopkirk]

Do you think scum-Gamma townreads Creature as he did with the logic he did?

[Hopkirk]

Are you thinking Tchill/Gamma independently, or are there associations there?

[Hopkirk]

I'll reread Gamma at some point today. If you want to point out specific parts to pay close attention to then I'll naturally pay closer attention to them.

[Hopkirk]

Though I'm interested in your Ausuka townread, if it's still there. Could you explain it more please.

[Hopkirk]

It's kind of funny Kookoo subbed out when we're going to lynch his top suspect anyway.

[Hopkirk]

Only reason I'm not voting Tchill right now is that Katherine/Tchill looks basically impossible, so I want to try and work out if I'm missing something.

The votecounts in 350/400 don't happen with a Tchill/Kat/Mumble scumteam.
Tchill shouldn't push a newbie as much as he did Kat D1.

[Hopkirk]

I'm looking at Katherine/Havo/Implosion interactions quickly.

Scumflip on Tchill or Kat clears the other for me btw.

[Hopkirk]

If scum bussed, Havo is scum.

[Hopkirk]

I am now rereading Havo.

[Hopkirk]

@Flavour: I'd perfer to hear your thoughts on Havo than on Ausuka actually- if you only had time for one set.

[Hopkirk]

I think I'm flipping my reads again...

[Hopkirk]

Actually I misread something important and haven't changed thoughts yet. Rereading Havo properly now.

[Hopkirk]

Actually it makes sense if Katherine is scum too.

[Hopkirk]

I'm looking at Katherine/Havo/Implosion interactions quickly.

Scumflip on Tchill or Kat clears the other for me btw.

I think this is a fair analysis. Tchill's push on Katherine is pretty ridiculous for a bus. I'll look into Kath/implo/Flavor interactions maybe

You mean Havo as one of those three right? K/F are the same person.

[Hopkirk]

@Gamma: what are your thoughts on the following two votecount points:
The 5 votes on Katherine changing to 5 on Implosion
Ausuka staying at 3 votes just short of the tipping point for a long time

[Hopkirk]

hopkirk if you havent posted yet on this regard can you tell me what you think about asuuka and tchill now because im not so shure

im more POSITIVE about tchill though atleast but im not sure if it's Svs?

Going through interactions withing my scumpool at the moment. Should update soon.

The MariaR kill comes from either Havo or Ausuka.

[Hopkirk]

I'm thinking there's scum within (Havo/Ausuka) and there's scum within (Flavor/Tchill).

[Hopkirk]

Havo/Tchill. Looking closely at this.

[Hopkirk]

Thoughts on Havo/Tchill?

[Hopkirk]

oh right it's top of your list too

[Hopkirk]

VOTE: Tchill

Comfortable enough with the pairing to put my vote down.

[Hopkirk]

Give me one good reason why the game isn't solved and maybe.

[Hopkirk]

Creature.

[Hopkirk]

Or you could put Tchill on l1. Putting someone on L1 sounds fun, doesn't it?

[Hopkirk]

Tchill's at L2.

[Hopkirk]

Oh yeah.

[Hopkirk]

Why not wagon Havo?

[Hopkirk]

Over Creature I mean if I get what you mean.

[Hopkirk]

I don't think info we get from it now would be meaningful.

[Hopkirk]

But Creature's town.

@Gamma: what are your thoughts on the following two votecount points:
The 5 votes on Katherine changing to 5 on Implosion
Ausuka staying at 3 votes just short of the tipping point for a long time

quotes pls

Haven't you already done VCA?

@Gamma: thoughts on Havo/Tchill?

[Hopkirk]

We should all pretend we scumread Mumble to make lylo super easy.

[Hopkirk]

350-400 goes from 5 on Implosion and 1 on Kat to 5 on Kat and 1 on Implosion.
625-950- 3 votes sit on Ausuka without the wagon growing any more.

[Hopkirk]

What do you mean by 'why does Havo swing around so late on the Luca lynch'?

[Hopkirk]

Give me one good reason why the game isn't solved and maybe.

Because I'm town. What happens when I flip town? Will flavor be lynched then?

If you flipped town, Flavour would move to most likely scum.

[Hopkirk]

Why as scum would I beg to take a weed eater to the Luca wagon day 1 WHEN I WAS ON THE LUCA WAGON.

If everybody flips town my death is certain (if I'm still alive)

2 scum aren't gonna bus implosion, that's a valid point, what doesn't make sense for me to do as scum is continue to push the small group of players that are almost as scummy as me. I'm gonna run out of lynch options eventually if I'm scum. If these guys keep flipping town I would be guaranteeing my own death. There's no motivation to my play that shows I'm thinking ahead.

We go day phase by day phase lynching those 3 until one flips scum. That's what we need to do. I'll self vote if none flips scum.

I'm town.

It would indicate your partner was more likely to be on the Implosion wagon.
Fits well with the Tchill/Havo model (lynch all, Havo is in lylo with handpicked players. Issue is claims/prs)
Fits less well with the Ausuka/Tchill model.
Although in both models, pushing the idea of lynching the group who wasn't on the wagon doesn't mean that happens. Ausuka/Tchill would be explained by Tchill pushing that idea while Ausuka pushing the idea of bussing. Less likely than the first scenario.

[Hopkirk]

Give me one good reason why the game isn't solved and maybe.

Because I'm town. What happens when I flip town? Will flavor be lynched then?

If you flipped town, Flavour would move to most likely scum.

So what if we lynched flavor today and he flipped scum?

You would be town. I would go into d4 intending to vote Havo.

[Hopkirk]

Hopkirk don't ignore my post doing what you asked for

I thought you were tackling a different point (would Creature bus), not 'what scumteams see this happen, does it make Katherine more scummy, etc...'

[Hopkirk]

Tchill/Havo

Tchill/Ausuka
Havo/Katherine
Katherine/Ausuka

Is roughly where I'm at. 2-4 are not ordered.

[Hopkirk]

Tchill/Havo

Tchill/Ausuka
Havo/Katherine
Katherine/Ausuka

Is roughly where I'm at. 2-4 are not ordered.

2703 and 2704 is a no go from you hopkirk?

3 of my 4 scumreads are from the wagon.
Flips affect who else we lynch.

[Hopkirk]

Is there anything there other than assuming Havo/Tchill wouldn't both bus Implosion there?

[Hopkirk]

Havo being potential scum is largely circumstantial. All of these things could come from Havo town.
- KTS and MariaR would have gone after Havo if they survived.
- Position on Mumbles Wagon.
- MariaR wagon yesterday
- Joining Luca wagon
- Parking on Implosion without apparent reason.

Rereading again though, Havo is more likely town than (Tchill/Ausuka/Flavour)

Just checking how many votes Flavour has.

[Hopkirk]

VOTE: Flavour

I don't think you've claimed yet, right?

Did Tchill/Ausuka both claim VT? If not it might be worth the entire group of 3 claiming since they're nightkill immune right now.

[Hopkirk]

In this scenario, why not?

[Hopkirk]

Tchill has claimed already.
Flavour is on L1 and should claim.

[Hopkirk]

Are you familiar with boonskies who is flavors main? This should be interesting.

No. Can you explain.

Flavor yes, forgot TChill claimed, but like in the fringe case Ausuka is a town PR I don't want him outed just because you gave the suggestion offhand

Actually yeah, no serious benefit to having Ausuka claim. I'm pretty sure I'm lynching within Tchill/FL today.

[Hopkirk]

UNVOTE: FL

To avoid quickhammers only.

[Hopkirk]

Unvote is now serious.
Was wondering whether it could be vig on MariaR, Doctor (or something close) on Mumble.

[Hopkirk]

Agree we lynch/vig Ausuka/Tchill.
Seems worth Ausuka claiming now then.

Worst case scenario I can think of (out of 5-6 possibilities), just puts us in the same position we are now.

[Hopkirk]

If you're the only kill either
a.) Mafia chose not to kill (or to kill you too) to frame FL
b.) FL is mafia, but used his shot on you

Either way is better than mafia shooting elsewhere.

[Hopkirk]

Any possibility scum has a roleblocker if we assumed the vig claim is true?

[Hopkirk]

Tchill not wanting this directly conflicts with his earlier suggestion of kill all of (Tchill/Ausuka/FL). This is doing that, but faster and more effeciently.
Checking how many votes on Tchill.

[Hopkirk]

VOTE: Tchill

[Hopkirk]

Though idk who else to scumread other than Gamma Emerald.

How about Havo?

[Hopkirk]

Scum FL kills whoever he wants then claims he was roleblocked, then gets lynched.
Still townreading (Gamma/Creature/Mumble/SAMYK)

[Hopkirk]

Tchill/Havo might be back up there for me actually.

[Hopkirk]

Tchill/Havo might be back up there for me actually.

You see you've never commented once on the VCA I did and it's making me distrust you because I state why I think it disproves a Havo/Tchill scumteam and at this point it feels like you're dodging it to keep pushing your mislynches.

I think I asked twice for clarification of if the post i specified was all of your VCA.

[Hopkirk]

Rereading again though, Havo is more likely town than (Tchill/Ausuka/Flavour)

what happened to this btw

Flavor claimed.
The degree I buy the claim influences this.
That's why I voted FL after flipping then voted Tchill again after flopping back after the claim.

[Hopkirk]

Want to link it if you think it guarantees not a team?
I only see one post and want to know if it's your whole case there.
Didn't respond since- wasn't sure if complete case, and was reconsidering myself anyway

[Hopkirk]

I'm trying to play as many marathons as possible tonight so I'll talk in more depth tomorrow.
Briefly:
Creature town sure.
Mumble definite town from counterwagon.
Havo's Implosion vote struck me as a possible bus when I was looking at H/T due to its the way it's on Implosion- lack of reasoning+consistently there feels like distancing that he can't really drop. Tchill voting Implosion makes sense in line with that if they're fine with the bus but aren't 100% commited.
Havo has a post that would support him unvoting Implosion. Will link tomorrow.
Will cover all in more depth then, but will be same basic line of thought.